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View Full Version : Duke at GaTech (Feb 2, 9:00pm ET, ESPNU): Pregame and In-game thread



CDu
01-27-2016, 10:52 AM
Hard to believe we're already done with January bball for the men. Let's discuss next Tuesday's game here.

moonpie23
01-27-2016, 11:03 AM
i wanna see the wrecking crew make a wreck outta the wreck....

GO DUKE

CDu
01-27-2016, 11:24 AM
Just to get this thing rolling so we can talk about something other than the Miami game, here are my thoughts about Ga Tech:

PF/C: First and foremost, the Jackets are HUUUUUUUGE. They rotate four monsters at PF and C. Charles Mitchell is a 6'8", 270lb fifth-year senior who transferred from Maryland a few years back. He has always been a load, but has steadily developed into an All-ACC caliber player. He's a behemoth averaging about 11 points and 11 rebounds per game. He's big and strong and he knows how to use his size inside. In addition, they have Nick Jacobs, who comes off the bench as basically a carbon copy of Mitchell (6'8", 265, fifth-year senior transfer from Alabama) minus the rebounding prowess. Those two guys are impact players offensively for the Jackets. But they are not alone. Ga Tech complements them with another huge guy in sophomore Ben Lammers (6'10", 240). Lammers is more a defender/rebounder/dunker like Plumlee. If that isn't enough, Tech starts grad transfer James White (6'8" 220) and junior Quinton Stephens (6'9", 190) in at PF as needed. But for more than half of the game Tech will have a substantial size advantage (in many cases a 75 lb size advantage) at PF. And they are VERY experienced inside.

Wings: The star of the team is senior Marcus Georges-Hunt. He's a SG/SF type with terrific athleticism, strength, and versatility. He's kind of a poor-man's Justise Winslow out there. He's a very difficult cover and is capable of taking over a game, and loves to attack the rim off the dribble. The weaknesses I'd note of his is that he can get a little trigger-happy from 3 despite being just a mediocre shooter from deep, and he can struggle at times with foul trouble. Aside from Georges-Hunt, the other player of note is Adam Smith. His shots seem to have an invisible hand guiding them into the basket. You may recognize Smith from his days at Va Tech. He has transferred and is a knock-down 3pt shooter, averaging nearly 44% on 3s (after 42% last year). He can absolutely take over games from the outside, scoring 30 against Pitt (8-13 from 3) and 20 against UNC (6-10 from 3). He might be the single best shooter we face this year - he's an incredibly efficient yet also high-volume shooter. Other than those two, we'll see Quinton Stephens and Tedric Jackson. Neither is terribly noteworthy other than that Stephens is super-skinny SF/PF who likes to shoot 3s and Jackson is a short, stout guy who doens't shoot well from the outside.

PG: The Jackets rotate a pair of decent PGs in Jorgensen and Heath. They are sort of nondescript offensively; both are caretakers who look to get others shots rather than looking to score themselves. The duo combines for about 6.5 ppg and 6.5 apg in about 36 mpg total. Neither is a strong shooter, with Jorgensen especially being allergic to shooting. Heath is a little more willing and a little more proficient, but neither is a scoring threat.

Ultimately, this is going to be a really tough matchup for us. Tech is very big, very physical, and very experienced. We'll see quite a bit of the game with a 6'8", 260-270lb, offensive-minded PF on the floor. It's going to be an absolutely huge test to Ingram's ability to handle the position. My suspicion is that we're going to need to use Jeter and/or Obi more in this one, and/or that we're going to have to hope to outscore Tech to win. I just don't see Ingram being able to defend either Mitchell or Jacobs inside.

Kfanarmy
01-27-2016, 11:45 AM
Appears GTs ACC schedule was front-loaded. They are 1-5, but all six games were against teams who are above Duke in the ACC standings. One common opponent in league play appears to be Va Tech, Duke handled pretty easily, but GT lost by 1...

kAzE
01-27-2016, 11:51 AM
Ugh . . . not looking forward to getting pounded inside. Hopefully the 3 balls are falling for us. I don't see us being able to outrebound them, so we're going to need to be pretty accurate from the field.

Troublemaker
01-27-2016, 12:28 PM
Ultimately, this is going to be a really tough matchup for us. Tech is very big, very physical, and very experienced. We'll see quite a bit of the game with a 6'8", 260-270lb, offensive-minded PF on the floor. It's going to be an absolutely huge test to Ingram's ability to handle the position. My suspicion is that we're going to need to use Jeter and/or Obi more in this one, and/or that we're going to have to hope to outscore Tech to win. I just don't see Ingram being able to defend either Mitchell or Jacobs inside.


Ugh . . . not looking forward to getting pounded inside. Hopefully the 3 balls are falling for us. I don't see us being able to outrebound them, so we're going to need to be pretty accurate from the field.

It might play out like the Ingram / Abu matchup against NCSU. Brandon took advantage of Abu's (and sometimes Lennard Freeman's) slower feet and discomfort guarding away from the basket to score an efficient 25 points to go along with 7 rebounds. Abu had 14 points and 5 rebounds.

Doria
01-27-2016, 01:07 PM
It might play out like the Ingram / Abu matchup against NCSU. Brandon took advantage of Abu's (and sometimes Lennard Freeman's) slower feet and discomfort guarding away from the basket to score an efficient 25 points to go along with 7 rebounds. Abu had 14 points and 5 rebounds.

Yeah, I think we've got to hope (and probably play) for an NCSU-like result. The problem that I see is that Tech is an extremely deep team, whereas State challenges us for thin rotation. I haven't watched much of Tech, aside from a couple minutes of the UNC loss, although I do remember Georges-Hunt as a very good player. Maybe I'll watch some of their game today with NCSU, though that looks to be an ugly game.

mo.st.dukie
01-27-2016, 01:10 PM
This will be tough but I think it will go a bit like the NCSU game, another team that had a major size advantage in the paint.

CDu
01-27-2016, 02:13 PM
It might play out like the Ingram / Abu matchup against NCSU. Brandon took advantage of Abu's (and sometimes Lennard Freeman's) slower feet and discomfort guarding away from the basket to score an efficient 25 points to go along with 7 rebounds. Abu had 14 points and 5 rebounds.

The major difference is that Mitchell and Jacobs are WAY more comfortable better post scorers than Abu. Abu gets most of his baskets on putbacks and alleyoops, with the occasional post move tossed in. Mitchell and Jacobs are more classical post scorers who can back you down and score. They are also both substantially bigger and stronger than Abu.

If we stay in man-to-man, Ingram will have a lot more trouble with Mitchell and Jacobs than he had with Abu (of course, those guys will have as much or more trouble with Ingram than Abu did). If we go zone (which would help protect Ingram from guarding their bigs), we'd need to be very cognizant of where Adam Smith is at all times. Unlike NC State, whose shooters aren't good enough to consistently beat us from deep, Smith WILL make open shots repeatedly.

Troublemaker
01-27-2016, 02:27 PM
The major difference is that Mitchell and Jacobs are WAY more comfortable better post scorers than Abu. Abu gets most of his baskets on putbacks and alleyoops, with the occasional post move tossed in. Mitchell and Jacobs are more classical post scorers who can back you down and score. They are also both substantially bigger and stronger than Abu.

If we stay in man-to-man, Ingram will have a lot more trouble with Mitchell and Jacobs than he had with Abu (of course, those guys will have as much or more trouble with Ingram than Abu did). If we go zone (which would help protect Ingram from guarding their bigs), we'd need to be very cognizant of where Adam Smith is at all times. Unlike NC State, whose shooters aren't good enough to consistently beat us from deep, Smith WILL make open shots repeatedly.

Good points, CDu.

It'll be interesting to see which defense we come out and play against GaTech.

If last season is a template -- and I don't know that it is -- Duke lost two consecutive games to NCSU and Miami and then proceeded to play almost all zone for a Saturday / Monday sequence of games against Louisville and Pitt, similar to how we played almost all zone this past Saturday / Monday against NCSU and Miami. After Pitt last season, Duke then proceeded to spend much of the rest of the season in man2man, eventually becoming excellent at playing it.

I do think Duke is using this bye week to go over man2man fundamentals and perhaps make a few tweaks to how we play it.

Ultimately, for Duke to do big things this year, I believe Duke will have to play man-to-man well. Hopefully this bye week starts us on a process of doing so.

Kfanarmy
01-27-2016, 02:57 PM
....I do think Duke is using this bye week to go over man2man fundamentals and perhaps make a few tweaks to how we play it.
Ultimately, for Duke to do big things this year, I believe Duke will have to play man-to-man well. Hopefully this bye week starts us on a process of doing so.

They have to quit being amazed when someone gets a step on them and do something useful rather than staring after the opponent, or no defense will work...

kAzE
01-27-2016, 03:33 PM
Good points, CDu.

It'll be interesting to see which defense we come out and play against GaTech.

If last season is a template -- and I don't know that it is -- Duke lost two consecutive games to NCSU and Miami and then proceeded to play almost all zone for a Saturday / Monday sequence of games against Louisville and Pitt, similar to how we played almost all zone this past Saturday / Monday against NCSU and Miami. After Pitt last season, Duke then proceeded to spend much of the rest of the season in man2man, eventually becoming excellent at playing it.

I do think Duke is using this bye week to go over man2man fundamentals and perhaps make a few tweaks to how we play it.

Ultimately, for Duke to do big things this year, I believe Duke will have to play man-to-man well. Hopefully this bye week starts us on a process of doing so.

I'm not sure we can realistically play M2M full time with our roster situation. The zone has worked wonders in keeping our players out of foul trouble, at the cost of giving up a ton of offensive rebounds and open 3s. However, with only a 6 player rotation, we kind of have to play the zone until late in games. I would be working more on improving the zone (specifically defensive rebounding in the zone) than M2M at least until Amile is nearing a return.

CDu
01-27-2016, 03:48 PM
I'm not sure we can realistically play M2M full time with our roster situation. The zone has worked wonders in keeping our players out of foul trouble, at the cost of giving up a ton of offensive rebounds and open 3s. However, with only a 6 player rotation, we kind of have to play the zone until late in games. I would be working more on improving the zone (specifically defensive rebounding in the zone) than M2M at least until Amile is nearing a return.

I think this is especially true against teams like Georgia Tech who have legitimate big men at both the PF and C spots. The lack of depth inside makes it REALLY hard for Plumlee and (especially) Ingram to defend man-to-man in the post.

jv001
01-27-2016, 03:57 PM
After reading Cdu's update on GT, I wish had not taken State tonight in the Fantasy Betting thread. GoDuke!

CDu
01-27-2016, 04:28 PM
After reading Cdu's update on GT, I wish had not taken State tonight in the Fantasy Betting thread. GoDuke!

In terms of relative talent, Tech is almost identical to Clemson. They do it entirely differently, but that is about how good they are. They are, aside from Smith, a bad 3pt shooting team. They have basically four scorers: Georges-Hunt, Mitchell, Smith, and Jacobs. The rest of the guys are support players. If we can contain Smith and get one (or both) of Mitchell and Jacobs in foul trouble (and avoid foul trouble ourselves), we should be okay. If we get in foul trouble and/or can't get one or both of their good bigs off the floor, we might be in trouble like we were in Clemson.

Doria
01-27-2016, 08:03 PM
Would some form of matchup zone be useful against them, if Smith is their only real outside threat?

dukelifer
01-27-2016, 10:16 PM
Another tough game for Duke. They will need to shoot really well to have a chance to win on the road. Tech handled State fairly easily tonight and ended up scoring 90 against them with three players scoring over 20. They also played 9 players and shot a ton of free throws at 85%. Tech is not a great team but they will be looking to beat Duke.

MChambers
01-29-2016, 09:25 AM
Would some form of matchup zone be useful against them, if Smith is their only real outside threat?

Especially if Coach K can figure out some way to use an invisible hand to keep Smith from scoring.

DFife90
01-29-2016, 09:45 AM
I'll be there among the Swarm cheering the team on! I figure that will give the team some welcome Duke Blue to focus in on among all the hostile yellow.

Sometimes its the intangibles.

Go Duke!

CDu
01-29-2016, 09:57 AM
Especially if Coach K can figure out some way to use an invisible hand to keep Smith from scoring.

Boo for stealing a joke already used in this thread. ;)

MChambers
01-29-2016, 11:19 AM
Boo for stealing a joke already used in this thread. ;)

Missed it. You kind of buried it, though.:)

CDu
01-29-2016, 11:26 AM
Missed it. You kind of buried it, though.:)

No worries. Just happy that someone else went there. Sometimes I get a bit too wordy I guess.

MCFinARL
01-29-2016, 11:42 AM
Boo for stealing a joke already used in this thread. ;)

What, you expect people to actually read the previous posts, even the long ones? ;)

Full disclosure, I actually read your whole post and somehow missed the joke. Sad....

Furniture
01-30-2016, 09:40 PM
Bump. Can't wait for Monday!

gep
01-30-2016, 10:41 PM
Bump. Can't wait for Monday!

Monday to get ready:confused: Game is on Tuesday :confused:

gofurman
01-30-2016, 10:41 PM
In terms of relative talent, Tech is almost identical to Clemson. They do it entirely differently, but that is about how good they are. They are, aside from Smith, a bad 3pt shooting team. They have basically four scorers: Georges-Hunt, Mitchell, Smith, and Jacobs. The rest of the guys are support players. If we can contain Smith and get one (or both) of Mitchell and Jacobs in foul trouble (and avoid foul trouble ourselves), we should be okay. If we get in foul trouble and/or can't get one or both of their good bigs off the floor, we might be in trouble like we were in Clemson.

talent-wise I agree with your analogy.. Clemson and GT are somewhat similar. Unfortunately for Duke, I think Tech may be a tougher matchup ... Clemson's best two players are the Senior PG Roper (Europe or D league level?) and Blossomgame at the 3/4. But Clemson is NOT as talented inside as Tech is. While you might equate Clemson's Blossomgame to Hunt for GTECH at the wing... the difference is that Clemson has a strong PGuard in Roper (tech does not)... but Tech has much more talent inside than Clemson. Clemson runs Nnoko and Djitte inside - Nnoko is a little talented.. Djitte not so much (just putbacks etc). Tech has 4 guys who are big and strong and two of whom are talented - the Maryland transfer and one other. Tech is much more talented inside than Clemson. Deeper too.

CDu
01-31-2016, 08:28 AM
talent-wise I agree with your analogy.. Clemson and GT are somewhat similar. Unfortunately for Duke, I think Tech may be a tougher matchup ... Clemson's best two players are the Senior PG Roper (Europe or D league level?) and Blossomgame at the 3/4. But Clemson is NOT as talented inside as Tech is. While you might equate Clemson's Blossomgame to Hunt for GTECH at the wing... the difference is that Clemson has a strong PGuard in Roper (tech does not)... but Tech has much more talent inside than Clemson. Clemson runs Nnoko and Djitte inside - Nnoko is a little talented.. Djitte not so much (just putbacks etc). Tech has 4 guys who are big and strong and two of whom are talented - the Maryland transfer and one other. Tech is much more talented inside than Clemson. Deeper too.

I agree. Tech is a real problem for Duke inside. Unless Jefferson shocks everyone and return, we will have to hope that at least one of their good bigs is in foul trouble or that we are scoring REALLY well.

Duke76
01-31-2016, 09:28 AM
I agree. Tech is a real problem for Duke inside. Unless Jefferson shocks everyone and return, we will have to hope that at least one of their good bigs is in foul trouble or that we are scoring REALLY well.

I'll be looking for Wendell Carter hopefully sitting behind the Duke bench. Saw him play a couple of weeks ago, the real deal as a junior.

Bob Green
01-31-2016, 09:33 AM
Tech is a real problem for Duke inside.

I posted a couple of comments yesterday, in the ACC thread, while watching the GT at Syracuse game, so I am repeating myself:

1. 3 PT shooting. GT was 4-10 in the 1st half but 1-8 in the 2nd. When the 3s are falling it really complements their strong inside game.
2. GT is a strong rebounding team which grabbed 40 rebounds to 35 for Syracuse. Syracuse dominated Duke on the glass pulling down 26 offensive rebounds.
3. GT defense seems vulnerable to cutting and driving so our wing offense should find room to operate.

I expect a tough game in Atlanta on Tuesday. Avoiding foul trouble along with a strong offensive performance will be required to come away victorious.

dyedwab
01-31-2016, 10:22 AM
I know that a lot of the conversations about this team are about our how well, or poorly, we can stop the other team. But given our depth issues, I would argue that the single most important thing this team can do is get positive offensive possessions - scoring, or getting the other team to commit fouls. That means three really important things. First, we have to hit open shots - missing open shots hurts no matter what, but with this teams' deficiencies on the boards and on the defensive end, we can afford fewer missed open shots then most other teams. Second, we need to make sure our shot selection is good. That flows from the first point. Contested shots are not helpful. And third, we can not be sloppy with the ball. Crisp passing and smart decision-making can lead to us limiting turnovers.And that's the key.

I guess what I'm really saying is that the strength of this team is on the offensive end, and we have the most unguardable player on the floor in Ingram. I don't have a lot of hope that this current iteration of the team can stop anyone on defense, but our offensive fire power is such that if we don't squander possession, we can beat anybody.

DBFAN
01-31-2016, 10:50 AM
Well all the losses GT has may be to teams above us, but if we had played GT already maybe we would be above some of those guys instead. I am excited for this game, not worried about their depth or size, because Duke got what they needed and that was some rest, and we are coming off another loss. But this squad needed rest more than anything. They play well entire game, except last couple of mins when they just physically give out. Duke by 8+

hallcity
01-31-2016, 11:29 AM
I'll be looking for Wendell Carter hopefully sitting behind the Duke bench. Saw him play a couple of weeks ago, the real deal as a junior.

I think that NCAA rules forbid giving tickets to prospects for road games.

Saratoga2
01-31-2016, 01:14 PM
I know that a lot of the conversations about this team are about our how well, or poorly, we can stop the other team. But given our depth issues, I would argue that the single most important thing this team can do is get positive offensive possessions - scoring, or getting the other team to commit fouls. That means three really important things. First, we have to hit open shots - missing open shots hurts no matter what, but with this teams' deficiencies on the boards and on the defensive end, we can afford fewer missed open shots then most other teams. Second, we need to make sure our shot selection is good. That flows from the first point. Contested shots are not helpful. And third, we can not be sloppy with the ball. Crisp passing and smart decision-making can lead to us limiting turnovers.And that's the key.

I guess what I'm really saying is that the strength of this team is on the offensive end, and we have the most unguardable player on the floor in Ingram. I don't have a lot of hope that this current iteration of the team can stop anyone on defense, but our offensive fire power is such that if we don't squander possession, we can beat anybody.

I would like to see Luke demand the ball more and have the others get him touches regularly. Brandon, Grayson and Luke make up a difficult group to defend, but more so if each remains a threat during the game. Luke has a tendency to run to a spot and not be as active after he has a few misses.

Also, Derryck is showing ability to put pressure on the defense as well as he has the speed and handle to get into the lane and pass or shoot. His development is coming along. A quick PG can give us fits defensively and likewise, others will have problems with Derryk's quickness.

Channing
02-01-2016, 04:03 PM
Just bringing it back to the first page.

From the little I have seen of GT this year, they do not seem like a particularly quick team at the guard position, which has given us trouble in the past. I hope Marshall has his big boy pants on to fight on the boards, because we are going to need him. Perhaps, given GT's size, we will see more of a steady Obi diet (hopefully this extended rest period has given his knees a chance to recuperate).

lmb
02-01-2016, 05:49 PM
I'm hoping with over a week off that Coach K makes some kind of unexpected adjustment to the defense or lineups that reaps great rewards. We've seen it before

freshmanjs
02-01-2016, 06:11 PM
I'm hoping with over a week off that Coach K makes some kind of unexpected adjustment to the defense or lineups that reaps great rewards. We've seen it before

I wouldn't expect a lot of new lineups using our 6 contributing players.

Furniture
02-01-2016, 07:18 PM
Thornton starts maybe?

Saratoga2
02-02-2016, 07:24 AM
Maybe coach K has found a way to get 10 good minutes from Jeter. NOt likely, but one can hope.

szstark
02-02-2016, 08:43 AM
Maybe coach K has found a way to get 10 good minutes from Jeter. NOt likely, but one can hope.

I think 10 good minutes from Obi is more likely. We will need his bulk inside.

sagegrouse
02-02-2016, 09:10 AM
I wonder if Amile might be in uniform tonight -- even if he is not expected to play. clutching at straws, I suppose, but....

devildeac
02-02-2016, 09:38 AM
I wonder if Amile might be in uniform tonight -- even if he is not expected to play. clutching at straws, I suppose, but...

I dunno. Does K trot him out there for warm-ups tonight to give GT something to think about or does he wait until Saturday at home and give NCSU that opportunity? Hmmm...

sagegrouse
02-02-2016, 03:33 PM
ESPN headline:

"Bubble Watch: Dayton a safer March bet than Duke"

The story never makes this point. Obviously, Duke attracts clicks, although not in a good way. From the analysis of Duke's prospects for the postseason:


Are the Blue Devils really a bubble team? The answer: Not really, at least not yet.

I mean, ESPN, how stupid do you think your readers are? Don't answer that!

Troublemaker
02-02-2016, 03:42 PM
I'm hoping with over a week off that Coach K makes some kind of unexpected adjustment to the defense or lineups that reaps great rewards. We've seen it before

I think you got it. Previous long breaks have yielded "MP3, baseline lurker" and the 2-3 zone, both of which paid dividends. (Even though our W-L record with the 2-3 zone has only been 1-1 thus far because of the tough game at Miami, it's hard to say the zone didn't help with rebounding and rest.)

Tonight I would expect another wrinkle that improves the team. Maybe this time it's a tweak to the m2m defense, but whatever it is, I think Duke will use it to emerge victorious.



From the little I have seen of GT this year, they do not seem like a particularly quick team at the guard position, which has given us trouble in the past. I hope Marshall has his big boy pants on to fight on the boards, because we are going to need him.

Yep, I agree with this, too. Georges-Hunt can drive, but they don't have multiple guys who can attack off the dribble. Generally, I'm not afraid of teams without the ability to do that. GaTech would have to really crush us on the boards to beat us in this situation, coming off rest. Which is possible, unfortunately. But we'll see.

kAzE
02-02-2016, 04:50 PM
I think you got it. Previous long breaks have yielded "MP3, baseline lurker" and the 2-3 zone, both of which paid dividends. (Even though our W-L record with the 2-3 zone has only been 1-1 thus far because of the tough game at Miami, it's hard to say the zone didn't help with rebounding and rest.)

Tonight I would expect another wrinkle that improves the team. Maybe this time it's a tweak to the m2m defense, but whatever it is, I think Duke will use it to emerge victorious.

The only problem with that theory is that we only have 6 guys. Those 6 guys do not give us a wealth of options for lineups and defensive strategies. Opponents have plenty of tape on all 6 of those guys now, with full scouting reports on all of their weaknesses on offense and defense. There's very little left to the imagination in terms of wrinkles that opposing coaches won't see coming. It's possible, but somewhat unlikely that Coach K has any tricks left up his sleeve.

We just have to play better as a group. We've got to play tougher and smarter on defense. There needs to be much better recognition on box out responsibilities in the zone. Faster and harder closeouts on shot attempts from the perimeter. Getting back in transition. Hitting Free throws. These are not things that you change with a new wrinkle in the gameplan. These are things that need to be practiced, and a big part of it is being in tip top physical condition.

It's very difficult to do these things if our players are tired. Getting Amile back to play 30+ minutes a game is going to help tremendously on that front, but until then, I'm not sure how much a new "wrinkle" is going to help. We just need to get better at the things we're already doing.

Troublemaker
02-02-2016, 04:59 PM
The only problem with that theory is that we only have 6 guys. Those 6 guys do not give us a wealth of options for lineups and defensive strategies. Opponents have plenty of tape on all 6 of those guys now, with full scouting reports on all of their weaknesses on offense and defense. There's very little left to the imagination in terms of wrinkles that opposing coaches won't see coming. It's possible, but somewhat unlikely that Coach K has any tricks left up his sleeve.

We just have to play better as a group. We've got to play tougher and smarter on defense. There needs to be much better recognition on box out responsibilities in the zone. Faster and harder closeouts on shot attempts from the perimeter. Getting back in transition. Hitting Free throws. These are not things that you change with a new wrinkle in the gameplan. These are things that need to be practiced, and a big part of it is being in tip top physical condition.

It's very difficult to do these things if our players are tired. Getting Amile back to play 30+ minutes a game is going to help tremendously on that front, but until then, I'm not sure how much a new "wrinkle" is going to help. We just need to get better at the things we're already doing.

And yet, with just those 6 guys, Coach has come up with two wrinkles already when given a long break. I don't see why you'd bet against a 3rd.

Obviously I am not saying the wrinkles are mutually exclusive with just executing better. I'd like to see both.

kAzE
02-02-2016, 05:35 PM
And yet, with just those 6 guys, Coach has come up with two wrinkles already when given a long break. I don't see why you'd bet against a 3rd.

Obviously I am not saying the wrinkles are mutually exclusive with just executing better. I'd like to see both.

My counter to that is: Why are we so sure "new wrinkles" will always be a net positive? I'd argue that with such a young group, trying to teach them a new defensive scheme is more detrimental to our short term goals than just improving what we've already worked on all summer and through 21+ games. Team defense does not go from mediocre to amazing or even decent in the span of 1 week.

Troublemaker
02-02-2016, 05:58 PM
My counter to that is: Why are we so sure "new wrinkles" will always be a net positive? I'd argue that with such a young group, trying to teach them a new defensive scheme is more detrimental to our short term goals than just improving what we've already worked on all summer and through 21+ games.

How do you go from the first set of bolded words to the second set of bolded words?

Wrinkles, small wrinkles, NOT new defensive scheme.

We did not implement a "new offensive scheme" by positioning Marshall behind the basket more often, for example.

Similarly, we had played 2-3 zone before -- very poorly -- but by putting some players in different places and devoting some practice time to it, we played some decent zone the past couple of games.

Why do I think another wrinkle could be a "net positive"? Because, while those two previous minor changes weren't perfect, most Duke fans would agree that they were positive changes. So I would expect additional changes to be positive as well. Plus, in general, I have respect for whatever our staff implements (or doesn't implement).


Team defense does not go from mediocre to amazing ... in the span of 1 week.

No kidding. Never said otherwise.

I don't know why you're resisting me so hard on this.

Are you just not confident for tonight and want to argue with someone who IS confident? Well, there's another way.

My boss, Jason Evans, has a little sportsbook going on right now, and he's always looking for new customers. You see the thread floating around. Just enter the thread and place a bet on GaTech getting 4 points tonight. How in the world is little ol' Duke going to beat the big, bad Yellow Jackets and cover 4 points? Craaazy. We'll spot you the first $5000 free. Come join us, kaze.

-jk
02-02-2016, 06:29 PM
My counter to that is: Why are we so sure "new wrinkles" will always be a net positive? I'd argue that with such a young group, trying to teach them a new defensive scheme is more detrimental to our short term goals than just improving what we've already worked on all summer and through 21+ games. Team defense does not go from mediocre to amazing or even decent in the span of 1 week.

'Cause K.

He uses new wrinkles when they work.

-jk

-jk
02-02-2016, 06:29 PM
DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

Eakane
02-02-2016, 06:36 PM
I really think this is the perfect game to try out a triangle and two. Put Matt on Georges-Hunt and Amile on Mitchell.

Oh wait...

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-02-2016, 06:41 PM
I think tonight sets the tone for the "second season." And, I think that tone is positive. Of course, I started the "Optimist Thread."

Twice.

fuse
02-02-2016, 07:55 PM
No Coach K tonight.
Get well soon- we are in great hands with Capel.

Let's Go Duke!

moonpie23
02-02-2016, 08:00 PM
No Coach K tonight.
Get well soon- we are in great hands with Capel.

Let's Go Duke!

spot on with this.....i know Capel will take care of business...


hope K just has a bug....

riverside6
02-02-2016, 08:47 PM
Live tempo-based stats for Duke/Georgia Tech, starters posted...

http://www.scacchoops.com/duke-at-georgia-tech-basketball-live-stats-02022016

downeastdad
02-02-2016, 09:17 PM
This is a must win, no K, no Amile, but looking good so far.
Go Duke!
ded

jipops
02-02-2016, 09:30 PM
The defense played by this group makes the '14 team look like the '85 Bears.

rsvman
02-02-2016, 09:32 PM
This is a must win, no K, no Amile, but looking good so far.
Go Duke!
ded

I don't know. the defense is still looking pretty porous right now. I hope it improves before the end of the night.

MartyClark
02-02-2016, 09:38 PM
I don't know. the defense is still looking pretty porous right now. I hope it improves before the end of the night.

Yeah, I'm not sure what we can do to stop this inside scoring.

Channing
02-02-2016, 09:38 PM
I think our super power is making the most pedestrian of offenses look like world beaters

Channing
02-02-2016, 09:40 PM
On the plus side I think jeter actually moderately held his own to give Marshall a short blow

downeastdad
02-02-2016, 09:47 PM
Nice call on the foul on Grayson.

DukieInBrasil
02-02-2016, 09:50 PM
however, Vrankovic performed a reasonable Jeter immitation. 1 turnover and 1 foul in less than a minute.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-02-2016, 09:50 PM
Not a pretty half

gumbomoop
02-02-2016, 09:51 PM
Derryck once again shows he doesn't understand how to play for the last shot. I'd have thought he might have learned from the big mistake at Clemson.

jipops
02-02-2016, 09:51 PM
I suppose that could have been worse, but it was still awful. G Tech is a pretty bad team and they are having no trouble at all scoring. Duke may have to hit about 70% in the 2nd to squeak out a win here.

arnie
02-02-2016, 09:52 PM
The defense played by this group makes the '14 team look like the '85 Bears.

You're inflating this year's D with that comparison. Not finishing at the rim, not playing D and still only down by 4. However, season is slipping away.

rsvman
02-02-2016, 09:52 PM
once again with a failure to close out a half well. I thought Ingram was fouled pretty hard. call was missed. led to the run out fast break hoop and harm with the foul on Kennard.
then somehow not being able to get the ball to go down despite two shots from next to the hoop. finally, another too-early shot from Thornton, perhaps?
lucky to be down only four. still with a good chance to pull this one out.

jimrowe0
02-02-2016, 09:53 PM
We just can't play defense, especially zone defense. We just give them lay-ups, 28 points in the paint isn't going to cut it. I still don't get why we are not playing man. Sure we don't won't to get tired on a short rotation, but our man defense gives us a better opportunity to win from my perspective.

arnie
02-02-2016, 09:55 PM
We just can't play defense, especially zone defense. We just give them lay-ups, 28 points in the paint isn't going to cut it. I still don't get why we are not playing man. Sure we don't won't to get tired on a short rotation, but our man defense gives us a better opportunity to win from my perspective.

Against teams with mediocre guards (like Tech), I agree.

burns15
02-02-2016, 09:55 PM
once again with a failure to close out a half well. I thought Ingram was fouled pretty hard. call was missed. led to the run out fast break hoop and harm with the foul on Kennard.
then somehow not being able to get the ball to go down despite two shots from next to the hoop. finally, another too-early shot from Thornton, perhaps?
lucky to be down only four. still with a good chance to pull this one out.

A good chance? Not based on what I have watched. This team just can't get out of its own way. All the little things that Duke teams usually do (hit free throws, get key stops), especially when coming off a loss or two, this team just doesn't do. Without Amile, this team just doesn't have it, flat out.

Channing
02-02-2016, 09:59 PM
That full court press was an interesting new device to give up open looks...

DUKIE V(A)
02-02-2016, 10:00 PM
We are getting outstanding looks against what looks like a relatively weak defense. Should knock em down in the second half and win this ball game.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-02-2016, 10:01 PM
A good chance? Not based on what I have watched. This team just can't get out of its own way. All the little things that Duke teams usually do (hit free throws, get key stops), especially when coming off a loss or two, this team just doesn't do. Without Amile, this team just doesn't have it, flat out.

Hard to say we don't have a "good chance." Two possession game, and we missed some good looks.

Not a pretty half, but certainly one we can pull out.

Was hoping tonight would set a new tone, but without K, I will settle for any W we can manage.

fuse
02-02-2016, 10:05 PM
Starting to debate with myself if we are a "bad team" this year.
Not fair with Amile out, and no knock on the "Super 6".
I love all our guys, they are clearly playing with a lot of heart and effort.

Our defense is woeful.

The upside is, assuming we get in the tournament with Amile back, the level of competition seems weak enough that we could still make a lot of noise in the tournament.

I'm not in any way down on the team, cheering for Duke to win every game.

Let's Go Duke!

jipops
02-02-2016, 10:19 PM
GTech goes for 0-10 stretch yet some how we are only up 1

MartyClark
02-02-2016, 10:19 PM
Chase is looking a little better this game.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-02-2016, 10:21 PM
His D under the basket les to the outlet and easy 2.

chrishoke
02-02-2016, 10:22 PM
Thornton is having his best game of the year. Duke grabs a 4 point lead.

wavedukefan70s
02-02-2016, 10:24 PM
Regardless of the outcome. I like what i am seeing tonight.

jipops
02-02-2016, 10:32 PM
Woohoo!!! We're seeing defense!

downeastdad
02-02-2016, 10:33 PM
Allen is unbelievable. Now with a little bit of D....

arnie
02-02-2016, 10:39 PM
Regardless of the outcome. I like what i am seeing tonight.

Remarkable turnaround - best half we've played since Amile injury. Better D, but hustle has been amazing.

downeastdad
02-02-2016, 10:39 PM
Plumlee cleans Lammers' clock. Tech have that "What just happened?" look on their faces. Me too.
ded

chrishoke
02-02-2016, 10:39 PM
Everything going our way - up by 17.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-02-2016, 10:45 PM
Scrambling on D. Too bad we don't have a chance in this game... :)

rsvman
02-02-2016, 10:46 PM
where's coach k when you need him? we should be in stall ball by now!

downeastdad
02-02-2016, 10:46 PM
Another ridiculous foul on Allen. Don't the Tech officials like him?

rsvman
02-02-2016, 10:53 PM
does anybody understand that back court call?

bleedingblue88
02-02-2016, 10:55 PM
Really dumb plays to end this game.

ChrisP
02-02-2016, 10:55 PM
Truly awful play here the last few minutes. Feels like we're TRYING to lose this game. Very odd

downeastdad
02-02-2016, 10:56 PM
does anybody understand that back court call?

Was it a 10 second?

Emerrick
02-02-2016, 10:56 PM
WTH....

Thornton almost single-handedly gave this one away.

BLPOG
02-02-2016, 10:56 PM
does anybody understand that back court call?

Back court, foul on Grayson, out on Grayson...I haven't understood any of it.

pfrduke
02-02-2016, 10:57 PM
I would say this is a clinic in trying to give a game away, but then again I just watched Wake-Virginia last week. Haven't hit that level (yet)

downeastdad
02-02-2016, 10:58 PM
Back court, foul on Grayson, out on Grayson...I haven't understood any of it.

Outstanding officiating, particularly on Allen. At least 3 totally bogus fouls on him.