"This is Duke now. Get used to it, people."

[53n206]

From ESPN today, yes this is Duke. We will overcome. Maybe not as in last year. But we will improve

[OldPhiKap]

From ESPN today, yes this is Duke. We will overcome. Maybe not as in last year. But we will improve

Key word, "now"

Last year, we got pummeled at home by Miami and were 2-2 in the conference, facing a road trip to Louisville who was favors to clean out clocks. Everyone who got off the bus then missed a hell of a ride.

We are young, we are thin, we are in the toughest conference in the country this year. We also have the best coach, and some of the best talent, in the country.

Tighten the seat belt, boys and girls, gonna be an adventure! LGD!

[aswewere]

Key word, "now"

Last year, we got pummeled at home by Miami and were 2-2 in the conference, facing a road trip to Louisville who was favors to clean out clocks. Everyone who got off the bus then missed a hell of a ride.

We are young, we are thin, we are in the toughest conference in the country this year. We also have the best coach, and some of the best talent, in the country.

Tighten the seat belt, boys and girls, gonna be an adventure! LGD!


Seems likes every one has a few outstanding player now and that's very good for the game.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Key word, "now"

Last year, we got pummeled at home by Miami and were 2-2 in the conference, facing a road trip to Louisville who was favors to clean out clocks. Everyone who got off the bus then missed a hell of a ride.

We are young, we are thin, we are in the toughest conference in the country this year. We also have the best coach, and some of the best talent, in the country.

Tighten the seat belt, boys and girls, gonna be an adventure! LGD!
QFE! LGD GTHc! Next play.

[CDu]

Key word, "now"

Last year, we got pummeled at home by Miami and were 2-2 in the conference, facing a road trip to Louisville who was favors to clean out clocks. Everyone who got off the bus then missed a hell of a ride.

We are young, we are thin, we are in the toughest conference in the country this year. We also have the best coach, and some of the best talent, in the country.

Tighten the seat belt, boys and girls, gonna be an adventure! LGD!

Yeah, I think that was part of the author's point. In that same article he referenced how much better Duke got midseason last year.

The reality is that, without Jefferson, we aren't a great team. We are a young, inexperienced team lacking a PG, lacking depth inside, and struggling with consistency. That may change with time. Maybe the young guys find their way. Maybe Coach K figures out a formula to mask the deficiencies. Or maybe we just continue to scuffle until Jefferson comes back. But right now, that is where we are.

And, to be honest, it is quite possible that this is the type of team we will be in the one-and-done, reload-on-the-fly era: a team that goes through growing pains throughout the season as freshmen try to learn while playing heavy minutes with few veterans there to guide them. Sometimes it will end up golden, sometimes not. Look at UK, who just lost to Auburn! I have no problem with the statement.

[ChillinDuke]

Key word, "now"

Last year, we got pummeled at home by Miami and were 2-2 in the conference, facing a road trip to Louisville who was favors to clean out clocks. Everyone who got off the bus then missed a hell of a ride.

We are young, we are thin, we are in the toughest conference in the country this year. We also have the best coach, and some of the best talent, in the country.

Tighten the seat belt, boys and girls, gonna be an adventure! LGD!

Agreed, OPK. Absolutely agreed.

But it's certainly concerning that our KP defense has fallen to 95.

You can find me on the bus all season, every season (seat 14C, to be exact), but concerns are valid even while sitting in 14C.

Not sure we can cure our defensive ailments without Amile. It's really as simple as that to me.

- Chillin

[CameronBlue]

QFE! LGD GTHc! Next play.

Quixotically Faithful to the End?? I have no clue what that stands for and I'm too damn stubborn to Google it...

But count me in. I love quests of the heart where people question my sanity and devotion.
Once more, unto the breach!

[Bob Green]

Quixotically Faithful to the End?? I have no clue what that stands for and I'm too damn stubborn to Google it...

Quoted For Emphasis.

[moonpie23]

i'll take it all with a grain (or 2 or 3) of salt.......we need jefferson back, and we need to step up our ability to close out tough games. I'm learning to just enjoy being a duke fan in my old age....

[Jarhead]

I have never expected Duke to lose a game. I watch every game with grand expectations, and most of the time we win. How can I ever be dissatisfied? Yeah, we have injuries. We've experienced that before. Frequently, it seems, but later this week Mrs. Jarhead and I will be high fiving with enthusiasm every time Duke increases its lead. We've been doing that for years. Now if I could only get her interested in football.

[Bob Green]

....we need jefferson back, and we need to step up our ability to close out tough games.

From Jim Sumner's front page article (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2016/1/16/10780800/irish-95-duke-91):


Duke has lost three times since Amile Jefferson went down—don’t expect him back until next month-and all three were one-possession games in the final seconds.

There is a lot of basketball to be played before Jefferson returns starting with Syracuse and their zone tomorrow evening. Our offense seems to stagnate when an opponent goes zone against us so I expect Syracuse to be a tough opponent.

[oldnavy]

From Jim Sumner's front page article (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2016/1/16/10780800/irish-95-duke-91):



There is a lot of basketball to be played before Jefferson returns starting with Syracuse and their zone tomorrow evening. Our offense seems to stagnate when an opponent goes zone against us so I expect Syracuse to be a tough opponent.

I worry less about the offense than I do the defense. Simply cannot give up 95 points and expect to win.

Having said that, I do agree that we have to mix lane penetration in with some solid outside shooting to crack the Cuse zone.

Team is learning on the fly, I still like our chances as we grow and adapt towards March.

[dukelifer]

Yeah, I think that was part of the author's point. In that same article he referenced how much better Duke got midseason last year.

The reality is that, without Jefferson, we aren't a great team. We are a young, inexperienced team lacking a PG, lacking depth inside, and struggling with consistency. That may change with time. Maybe the young guys find their way. Maybe Coach K figures out a formula to mask the deficiencies. Or maybe we just continue to scuffle until Jefferson comes back. But right now, that is where we are.

And, to be honest, it is quite possible that this is the type of team we will be in the one-and-done, reload-on-the-fly era: a team that goes through growing pains throughout the season as freshmen try to learn while playing heavy minutes with few veterans there to guide them. Sometimes it will end up golden, sometimes not. Look at UK, who just lost to Auburn! I have no problem with the statement.

The fact that Jefferson got hurt actually helped a few of the young guys develop. Ingram got much better when his role changed and Kennard started to show his gifts when he got more playing time. But Amile is needed now- as the ACC season gets into its grind and this very young team of 6.5 players is going to run out of gas- both in games and as the season goes on. If this was a team of juniors and seniors- it might be a different story. Duke's championship run cost Duke Tyus Jones- who likely would still be in Durham if they never got to the Final Four. His leadership and skill would make a ton of difference on this team. But Duke won a championship and in the long view of Duke basketball that is huge. This remains an entertaining team to watch- and will be in most games. The end of game execution just needs to improve.

[Troublemaker]

I have a quick meta-observation (hopefully I'm using "meta" correctly), and it's this: As a forum, we've probably built up the memory of Amile too much at this point. It's almost like he was a young Kevin Garnett defensively, which isn't going to be fair to him when he returns. And that's putting aside the fact that he may return rusty. Quite frankly, at the time of his injury, I considered Amile to be a better offensive player than defensive player, so my hope is that (and I believe it will happen) Duke makes strides defensively even before Amile returns. I don't think we're that far off, which sounds crazy after playing perhaps our worst defensive game of the season, but I liked how the defense was shaping up in the preceding games.

At the same time, I continue to reject any calls for Amile to redshirt. This team is in desperate need of a third competent "big" to add to Brandon and MP3 in the rotation. Amile at first will provide valuable sub minutes for Brandon and MP3 and also allow Duke the option to upsize and play two true big men when appropriate. (Notre Dame may have been such an occasion.) With Amile out, we've lost the versatility to either downsize OR upsize, and we've played in a permanent downsized mode. And then as Amile plays himself into form, he can eventually play starter's minutes and make MP3 a 20 mpg guy, which is probably a more appropriate role than the 35 mpg guy he is now. Just having that third competent big guy will turn Duke into a contender, even if Amile's defensive impact has been built up too much (imo).

[brevity]

From ESPN today, yes this is Duke. We will overcome. Maybe not as in last year. But we will improve


Yeah, I think that was part of the author's point. In that same article he referenced how much better Duke got midseason last year...

There's an article?! Why yes, there is:
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/110415/duke-forced-to-recognize-its-limitations-after-second-straight-loss

It only took the 15th post in this thread to provide the required context for the original post. I saw this thread yesterday and assumed the line in the thread title was spoken on television.

I will never understand why some people who start new threads completely avoid the responsibility of providing us with some frame of reference. The rest of us are readers, not mind readers. If you can't properly communicate a point, then don't draw attention to yourself, which is what happens when you start a thread.

I don't give out negative sporks, but I may have to start.

[westwall]

Quixotically Faithful to the End?? I have no clue what that stands for and I'm too damn stubborn to Google it...


I think Ozzie is asking for a "Quick Engineering Fix" by Coach K to remedy the defensive deficiencies.

[Full Disclosure: I had help from Wikipedia]]

[OldPhiKap]

I think Ozzie is asking for a "Quick Engineering Fix" by Coach K to remedy the defensive deficiencies.

[Full Disclosure: I had help from Wikipedia]]

Wouldn't that be "QEF?"

[westwall]

Wouldn't that be "QEF?"


Yes, it would. But note that I said "I think" and "help" from Wilipedia, and not "the correct answer".

[Full Disclosure: Wilipedia gave no reasonable options for "QFE", so, (attempting to apply Occam's razor) I thought that Ozzie MAY have transposed the letters, and Wikipedia does have reasonable options for "QEF".]

Westwall

[grossbus]

"I don't give out negative sporks, but I may have to start."


How does one give sporks anyway? I am totally ignorant.

[uh_no]

"I don't give out negative sporks, but I may have to start."


How does one give sporks anyway? I am totally ignorant.

the smiley frowney face in the bottom left hand corner of a post.

[smvalkyries]

I am not calling for Amile to redshirt this season. and especially not for the selfish reasons of making next years team better at the expense of this years team. In fact I think Amile's loyalty will put great pressure on him to return this year. In another thread I made the point that Amile might want to consider redshirting if he could even get a med redshirt. My reasoning was solely in Amile's interest, not Duke's and not mine. I think Amile was playing well enough when he left to have a shot at making an NBA roster with its what is it $500,000 minimum salary. I don't think he would get this chance if he comes back late, is rusty and can't immediately replicate his pre-injury level of play. In addition I think Amile loves the game and giving up 6-7 weeks of ACC play is a very high price to pay for the chance of making a really substantial improvement in the ACC and NCAA tournaments this year. I think K's statement that Amile's return will be later rather than sooner means our current team must proceed as if Amile will not be back and can't be looking to him to solve our roster problems.

[uh_no]

I am not calling for Amile to redshirt this season. and especially not for the selfish reasons of making next years team better at the expense of this years team. In fact I think Amile's loyalty will put great pressure on him to return this year. In another thread I made the point that Amile might want to consider redshirting if he could even get a med redshirt. My reasoning was solely in Amile's interest, not Duke's and not mine. I think Amile was playing well enough when he left to have a shot at making an NBA roster with its what is it $500,000 minimum salary. I don't think he would get this chance if he comes back late, is rusty and can't immediately replicate his pre-injury level of play. In addition I think Amile loves the game and giving up 6-7 weeks of ACC play is a very high price to pay for the chance of making a really substantial improvement in the ACC and NCAA tournaments this year. I think K's statement that Amile's return will be later rather than sooner means our current team must proceed as if Amile will not be back and can't be looking to him to solve our roster problems.

If amile is good enough to make an NBA roster, a few games at the end of his SR year coming off an injury isn't going to change that.

worst case, he ends up on some team's d-league squad and plays his way up. Another year isn't going to greatly change his NBA stock IMO.

[JPtheGame]

I don't give out negative sporks, but I may have to start.

Anyone who talks about giving out negative sporks shouldn't be allowed to give out sporks at all.
This is an excellent message board but that's all it is. People acting like you need submissions that would qualify for peer reviewed journals is a big reason why some people stop posting.

As long as there are no personal attacks, "proper communication" as it applies to Internet message boards is just code for "how I would like to see people post". There's room for all kinds of posts and the ones without merit fade away very quickly on their own. They fade even quicker when you don't take the time to post about how much you don't like them or how they violated some unwritten, unknown message board rule.

[wsb3]

Obviously we need Amile back but when we make comparisons to last year & where we were at this time. We had two top flight point guards on that team. As much as we miss Amile we don't have one top flight PG on this team. No way am I giving up on this team or Thornton.. QC did not set the world on fire as a freshman. It took him awhile to develop & I think the same will be true for Thornton. I love Matt Jones but PG is obviously not his position. I had hoped by now Thornton would be playing 35+minutes per game & really running the team. I hope Thornton blows up this last part of the season. The light goes on & he begins to play at an insanely high level but I think it is going to take him awhile & that may not mean this season.

[KenTankerous]

Look y'all, this is the hangover. The one and done hangover.

Great talent brings home a banner that none of the players who won it see it hung, or nurture young talent, teach them to play at this level, ACC level.

Coach K is the best ever but this is new territory for him. Give him a year or two...

[CDu]

Look y'all, this is the hangover. The one and done hangover.

Great talent brings home a banner that none of the players who won it see it hung, or nurture young talent, teach them to play at this level, ACC level.

Coach K is the best ever but this is new territory for him. Give him a year or two...

Actually, four of the players who won it are back, including 1.5 starters.

[Atldukie79]

Was it just a year ago that the Duke team rallied to "Eight is enough"!
Eight would seem rather luxurious this year.

All the posts over the years bemoaning tired teams, K plays JJ too many minutes, etc...
I cannot recall such a thin team as this one, yet I do not hear much about fatigue on this board or other places.

Foul trouble? Yes! Fatigue? Not so much.

These guys do seem to be in pretty good shape.

[gep]

Was it just a year ago that the Duke team rallied to "Eight is enough"!
Eight would seem rather luxurious this year.

All the posts over the years bemoaning tired teams, K plays JJ too many minutes, etc...
I cannot recall such a thin team as this one, yet I do not hear much about fatigue on this board or other places.

Foul trouble? Yes! Fatigue? Not so much.

These guys do seem to be in pretty good shape.

I agree these guys seem to be in pretty good shape... for now. Without Amile, maybe fatigue sets in during the second half of the season... especially with the backloaded ACC schedule. I even wonder at times if Grayson's FT misses are somewhat related to "mild" fatigue.:confused: given the way he likes to play.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Anyone who talks about giving out negative sporks shouldn't be allowed to give out sporks at all.
This is an excellent message board but that's all it is. People acting like you need submissions that would qualify for peer reviewed journals is a big reason why some people stop posting.

As long as there are no personal attacks, "proper communication" as it applies to Internet message boards is just code for "how I would like to see people post". There's room for all kinds of posts and the ones without merit fade away very quickly on their own. They fade even quicker when you don't take the time to post about how much you don't like them or how they violated some unwritten, unknown message board rule.

You aren't wrong, in addressing people acting as the posting police concerning "proper communication" and threatening negative sporks.

However, the article does provide extremely relevant context. The author leans on several quote from K about this year's difficulties and contrasts with last year's circumstances before summarizing with the line quoted in the first post.

Absent that context, reading this thread, it seemed to me that the quote was from some snarky ESPN head referencing highlights from the game as a way to recognize how the mighty have fallen.

Two very different effects. Linking to the article would have likely changed the tone of the responses here, and thusly, not linking to it seems inflammatory at worst, disingenuous at best.

Now, back to "negative sporks..." we are admittedly a different type of internet community than most sports boards. The mods do an excellent job of holding the members to a high standard while doing their darndest not to step on toes. Sometimes we attempt some good-natured self-policing as well, which I do support.

"Negative sporks" might be a bit far, but I do support the poster's concept of a higher standard when it comes to blind quotes without links and point of reference.

Oh, and fact is, yes "this is Duke" for now. Better get your licks in quick before the ship is righted. I still maintain that our team may likely look quite different in four or five weeks.

[Bob Green]

Al Featherston has an article posted on the Front Page (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2016/1/18/10784978/making-sense-of-a-wild-acc-race) which fits into this conversation nicely. I was going to post the link and my comments in the Syracuse game thread but the article complements this thread's ongoing discussion.

I'll start with the money quote:


That’s not to suggest that Jefferson is a superman or that his presence would have made Duke a superpower. But he was playing at a high level and his absence has hurt the team badly in the paint defensively and on the boards. With him in the lineup, Duke is a top 10 team … without him, the Devils are at best a borderline top 25 team.

The article discusses the ACC race, which is wide open and unpredictable at this time, and talks about the conference's quest to earn 10 NCAA Tournament bids. It is a good read with quotes from Coach K, Coach Boeheim and Coach Hamilton. It is written for DBR by Al Featherston so obviously it is a Duke-centric article. A couple of important questions are posed. First, will Duke fall out of the Top 25 after going 0-2 last week? The Blue Devils have been in the Top 25 for 165 straight weeks since the final poll of the 2006-07 season. Second, can the Blue Devils figure out how to win close games without Jefferson on the court? The second question is more important than the first.

The article is a good read so I recommend it to all the DBR faithful. Now let's go take it to the Orange!

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

This is about what I was expecting this season, early struggles mixed in with some nice individual performances. Which I am fine with, I mean we did just win a National Championship. Without Amile, it makes those growing pains much worse because the guy is so versatile and useful to Coach K. Imagine Ingram being able to play the 3 right now? With Matt Jones struggling of late, we could have used a lineup with Luke, Grayson, Ingram, Amile, and MP3 which I think would have caused huge matchup issues for Clemson and ND. Also lets not forget that before his injury he was one of the best offensive rebounders in the country. Think we could benefit from 4-8 more posessions a game?

This may be Duke now, but as soon as Amile comes back we will upgrade significantly just by his mere presence. One more able body on this team, will be huge.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

I have never expected Duke to lose a game. I watch every game with grand expectations, and most of the time we win. How can I ever be dissatisfied? Yeah, we have injuries. We've experienced that before. Frequently, it seems, but later this week Mrs. Jarhead and I will be high fiving with enthusiasm every time Duke increases its lead. We've been doing that for years. Now if I could only get her interested in football.

Studies have shown that women, for the most part, are more interested in sports if they have learned personal things and begun to care about the players. They like to see their faces and "get to know them". With TV focused on faces and emotions up close and with fewer players to keep track of, it's easy to get involved. That's harder to do in football with so many guys hidden inside big ol' helmets out there. Start with some of the outstanding personal stories of guys on the team. Clue her in to Dave Harding's Duke coverage. Heck, what female wouldn't fall for Harding's personal charm and enthusiasm?

Once she "cares" about one or two guys and can pull for them to succeed, it will spread to all the others. We're so lucky at Duke that we have the kids who are so easy to be proud of and care about.

For her it's not about football; it's personal.
Love, Ima

[MCFinARL]

Yes, it would. But note that I said "I think" and "help" from Wilipedia, and not "the correct answer".

[Full Disclosure: Wilipedia gave no reasonable options for "QFE", so, (attempting to apply Occam's razor) I thought that Ozzie MAY have transposed the letters, and Wikipedia does have reasonable options for "QEF".]

Westwall

For whatever reason, when I Googled QFE I got right to a Wikipedia reference in that order--for "Quick Fix Engineering." And that makes sense in context.

So you clearly have the right idea here. Not sure why you got different Wikipedia results.

[Troublemaker]

"Get used to it" implies that things are static when in reality players are constantly improving (or sometimes regressing) both individually and in team execution, and coaches are constantly tinkering as well. Lost in the defeat to Notre Dame was that we have a new starter in Luke, who played great and who had been constantly improving over the past few weeks. The coaches recognized that it was time to make a change to the starting lineup, and even though we lost, I doubt we will regret having Luke play 30-35 mpg going forward. Kid's a stud.

In my next post, I'll try to predict 3 more changes Coach K might make.

[Bob Green]

Lost in the defeat to Notre Dame was that we have a new starter in Luke, who played great and who had been constantly improving over the past few weeks.

I'm picking my words carefully here in an attempt to not be misunderstood. When the team hits a rough spot and losses a couple of games in a row, the changes implemented by the coaching staff and the player's reactions to those changes are exciting.

[Troublemaker]

3 defensive changes Coach K might tinker with, in no particular order:

I mentioned this one in the postgame thread, but Coach K might permanently switch primary defensive assignments for Grayson and Matt, i.e. Grayson guards PGs, and Matt guards wings. The word "primary" is key because Duke switches on defense so much that everyone will guard everyone at one time or another. Still, I think that Matt is a very good-to-great wing defender, including all the help responsibilities on the wing, but only an average PG defender. I think Grayson's athleticism makes him a better match for PG defense.

Coach K tinkered some with this at the end of the Notre Dame game, putting Grayson on Demetrius Jackson, and we got decent results out of it. I'm wondering if this will continue tonight. My first inclination was no because Gbinije is a big PG that Matt can match up with, but now I'm thinking Grayson is a big strong guard who can handle him, too. And Syracuse also relies a lot on Cooney. Why not make the change and have Matt put the straps on Cooney?

Next, Coach K might order Marshall to stop double-teaming the post when Brandon & Matt are being posted up. This has been going on for a few games now, and opponents must have netted a 200+ offensive efficiency against it. What ends up happening is the postup player makes an easy pass to the man that Marshall left behind, and it's two points and sometimes a 3-pt play depending on whether he gets fouled. Just let Brandon and Matt play straight up post defense on the power forward.

It is incumbent upon Brandon to keep his arms straight up in the air when being posted up. His arms were down when Colson got a 3-pt play posting Brandon up on a rare 1-on-1 opportunity in the post. As for Matt, he's actually a sneaky good post defender. If the opposing PF can score on Matt in the post without getting stripped or charging, you just tip your hat and move on.

I have one more and will return in a bit to post it.

[oldnavy]

Studies have shown that women, for the most part, are more interested in sports if they have learned personal things and begun to care about the players. They like to see their faces and "get to know them". With TV focused on faces and emotions up close and with fewer players to keep track of, it's easy to get involved. That's harder to do in football with so many guys hidden inside big ol' helmets out there. Start with some of the outstanding personal stories of guys on the team. Clue her in to Dave Harding's Duke coverage. Heck, what female wouldn't fall for Harding's personal charm and enthusiasm?

Once she "cares" about one or two guys and can pull for them to succeed, it will spread to all the others. We're so lucky at Duke that we have the kids who are so easy to be proud of and care about.

For her it's not about football; it's personal.
Love, Ima

My wife stopped watching football after John Riggins retired. She thought he was "the bomb". Thankfully, she has gotten interested in the NFL again since my youngest son is such a fan and gets a ticket and trip to Baltimore once a year for a combo birthday/Christmas present. Of course we go to chaperone.... :rolleyes:

[Neals384]

Quixotically Faithful to the End?? I have no clue what that stands for and I'm too damn stubborn to Google it...

But count me in. I love quests of the heart where people question my sanity and devotion.
Once more, unto the breach!

Quit Freakin Equivocating?


I have a quick meta-observation (hopefully I'm using "meta" correctly), and it's this: As a forum, we've probably built up the memory of Amile too much at this point. It's almost like he was a young Kevin Garnett defensively, which isn't going to be fair to him when he returns. And that's putting aside the fact that he may return rusty. Quite frankly, at the time of his injury, I considered Amile to be a better offensive player than defensive player, so my hope is that (and I believe it will happen) Duke makes strides defensively even before Amile returns. I don't think we're that far off, which sounds crazy after playing perhaps our worst defensive game of the season, but I liked how the defense was shaping up in the preceding games.


All I recall is an on-court superman; a meal ticket for a deep run in March.


the smiley frowney face in the bottom left hand corner of a post.

If you don't see the smiley frowney, log in.


Was it just a year ago that the Duke team rallied to "Eight is enough"!
Eight would seem rather luxurious this year.

All the posts over the years bemoaning tired teams, K plays JJ too many minutes, etc...
I cannot recall such a thin team as this one, yet I do not hear much about fatigue on this board or other places.

Foul trouble? Yes! Fatigue? Not so much.

These guys do seem to be in pretty good shape.

Methinks fatigue is a huge issue. Missed free throws, airballs on last second shots and more as evidence.


Studies have shown that women, for the most part, are more interested in sports if they have learned personal things and begun to care about the players. They like to see their faces and "get to know them". With TV focused on faces and emotions up close and with fewer players to keep track of, it's easy to get involved. That's harder to do in football with so many guys hidden inside big ol' helmets out there. Start with some of the outstanding personal stories of guys on the team. Clue her in to Dave Harding's Duke coverage. Heck, what female wouldn't fall for Harding's personal charm and enthusiasm?

Once she "cares" about one or two guys and can pull for them to succeed, it will spread to all the others. We're so lucky at Duke that we have the kids who are so easy to be proud of and care about.

For her it's not about football; it's personal.
Love, Ima

It's so true. My wife stopped watching basketball when the shorts got long and baggy.

[devildeac]

Quit Freakin Equivocating?



All I recall is an on-court superman; a meal ticket for a deep run in March.



If you don't see the smiley frowney, log in.



Methinks fatigue is a huge issue. Missed free throws, airballs on last second shots and more as evidence.



It's so true. My wife stopped watching basketball when the shorts got long and baggy.

"A meal ticket"

I see what you did there;)

[SilkyJ]

We are a young, inexperienced team lacking a PG, lacking depth inside, and struggling with consistency.

Pop Quiz: How many Duke of K's 12 Final Four teams didn't have a very good, All-ACC caliber PG? The only one is '94, when Grant effectively manned the point on offense. Matt is doing an admiral job out there and by all accounts is a great leader, but he's really a stopgap at PG. He just doesn't have the playmaking, passing and penetration abilities you need from a PG.

That said, the data would tell you that our trouble isn't on offense, its on defense. We are #3 in KenPom offense, #103 in KenPom D. We scored 90+ vs Notre Dame, but gave up 90...at home! Can't have that. We need Amile back for his Defense, and we need it badly.

Reminds me of the 2012 & 2014 teams. 2012: we had two SGs, Rivers and Curry, in the backcourt b/c a freshman Quinn wasn't ready to man the point. You could tell we needed a true PG, but really the problem was on D (we were top 10 in AdjO, 81 in AdjD) and stopping penetration. Came back to bite us vs Lehigh when CJ McCollum ate us alive.

2014: we had Quinn and Sheed coming off solid years, but both struggled to fit in alongside Hood and Parker, and honestly regressed from a year earlier. Again we were #3 in AdjO, #116 in AdjD. Quinn lost his starting job to Tyler Thornton, presumably b/c K knew we needed help on D, but that wasn't enough. Mercer's guards feasted on us and they shot 55%.

In both cases years we had a lot of offensive firepower, had stop gaps at PG, and were very bad on D. So what's the root cause, lack of PG or bad D? Its an important question b/c Amile is going to come back and our defense is going to improve when that happens. The question is will it matter or is this team forever hampered by its lack of a PG? My gut says you can overcome a stopgap at PG and still be an effective team in March, though K has done it very few times (part of that is selection: K usually has a top flight PG at the helm). Scheyer was in someways a stopgap, but emerged to be very effective as a PG.

So I think when we get Amile back we'll see a some improvement in our D. We'll really see an improvement in our rebounding: in the 10 games w/Amile we were outrebounded a grand total of zero times. In the 8 games since, we've been outrebounded 5 times, including by -18 vs Utah, and -12 vs Clemson. I just wonder whether a) our defense will improve enough to lift us come March, or b) whether our lack of a true starting PG will be an achilles heel.

[KenTankerous]

Actually, four of the players who won it are back, including 1.5 starters.

Valid and accurate.

But can you imagine this season had Okafur, Jones, and/or Winslow returned? It's insipid to even bring up. We all know this.

To put the weight on Plumlee and Allen is unfair. They have both excelled beyond their talents into games learned and skills honed.

This team will find its talent, its groove, its shimmy. Just give K and Jon and that guy that pretends to develop big men a little time and they'll win a few more ACC games. It might be next year, but it'll happen.

And truth be told, watching the loss to ND, painful as it may have been, was still better than watching reruns of the NC Chapel Hill game over the summer.

Suck it up buttercup, these are good problems to have...

[CDu]

Valid and accurate.

But can you imagine this season had Okafur, Jones, and/or Winslow returned? It's insipid to even bring up. We all know this.

To put the weight on Plumlee and Allen is unfair. They have both excelled beyond their talents into games learned and skills honed.

This team will find its talent, its groove, its shimmy. Just give K and Jon and that guy that pretends to develop big men a little time and they'll win a few more ACC games. It might be next year, but it'll happen.

And truth be told, watching the loss to ND, painful as it may have been, was still better than watching reruns of the NC Chapel Hill game over the summer.

Suck it up buttercup, these are good problems to have...

Oh sure. I mostly agree with you. Just being snarky in defending our role players from last year. But you are correct that, with star turnover so prevalent and key players so young, each season may have its growing pains.

[Kedsy]

Pop Quiz: How many Duke of K's 12 Final Four teams didn't have a very good, All-ACC caliber PG? The only one is '94, when Grant effectively manned the point on offense.

Was Quin Snyder really a "very good, All-ACC caliber PG"?

[wsb3]

Was Quin Snyder really a "very good, All-ACC caliber PG"?

That was my first thought as well Kedsy.. Hard nosed, tough but I don't think he ever made All-Acc & late in a game against the press the ball was often placed in Ferry's hands. I still don't think Ferry gets the credit for how great a player he was & in a time when the ACC was so good...but that is a story for another day..(off season topics) :)

[OldPhiKap]

Was Quin Snyder really a "very good, All-ACC caliber PG"?


That was my first thought as well Kedsy.. Hard nosed, tough but I don't think he ever made All-Acc & late in a game against the press the ball was often placed in Ferry's hands. I still don't think Ferry gets the credit for how great a player he was & in a time when the ACC was so good...but that is a story for another day..(off season topics) :)

FWIW (perhaps not much), this subjective list has Quin as the 9th best pg in school history:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/739859-duke-basketball-kyrie-irving-and-the-11-best-duke-point-guards-of-all-time/page/4

Unless I missed it, Tyus Stones was not listed -- which would drop Quin to 10.

Quin was an Academic All-American his senior year but not (AFAIK) an all-ACC player. Starter on two Final Four squads though -- no small potatoes.

[wsb3]

FWIW (perhaps not much), this subjective list has Quin as the 9th best pg in school history:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/739859-duke-basketball-kyrie-irving-and-the-11-best-duke-point-guards-of-all-time/page/4

Unless I missed it, Tyus Stones was not listed -- which would drop Quin to 10.

Quin was an Academic All-American his senior year but not (AFAIK) an all-ACC player. Starter on two Final Four squads though -- no small potatoes.

Spanarkel is on the list as a point guard...:confused:

[OldPhiKap]

Spanarkel is on the list as a point guard...:confused:

"We don't play positions"

- Bill Foster



;>)

[Troublemaker]

I have one more and will return in a bit to post it.

The third defensive change Coach K might tinker with is to concede the pull-up 3 by positioning Marshall a step or two closer to the basket on pick-n-roll.

When you concede the pull-up 3 on the ball screen, bad things can happen like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0onr1g-y9jc). Don't worry, you can click on the link, as it's a replay of a great play for Duke last April. (I wonder how many can guess the play just from this description. Spoiler ahead).

Even though Kaminsky gives up a clean look to Tyus there, notice how he's in position to defend Amile's roll to the basket. AND, if Tyus had decided to drive, Kaminsky would've had a few steps head start to retreat to the basket and rim protect. Basically, if you concede the pull-up 3, your big man can guard both the driver (via rim protection) and the roller on a ball screen.

If you don't concede the pull-up 3, then Kaminsky has to be a step or two higher, in which case Tyus would have a greater chance of beating him to the basket for a layup, which has been happening to MP3 a little bit too much for my taste. ALSO, you have to have a third player (usually a wing) come over to defend the roller because the big man isn't in place to do so.

Watch on Notre Dame's game-winning play (https://youtu.be/ApA1VrIIYbM?t=1m9s) how Luke has to come over (too late unfortunately) to meet Colson. If MP3 had been a step or two lower, he could've defended both the roll and had a head start to beat Jackson to the rim if he drove. (To be fair, that was probably how Duke wanted to defend the play, judging by how Grayson throws his hands up while looking at Marshall.)

[slower]

Let's just say that (obviously) Winslow, Okafor, T. Jones and Cook ain't walking through that door, folks. This is not last year - not even close. Some of you may choose to maintain an attitude of unbridled optimism, but I'm saving it for next year. It's called "managing expectations." Just hoping to all that is right in the universe that the Cheats don't have a big year.

[duke09hms]

Just hoping to all that is right in the universe that the Cheats don't have a big year.

Exactly. For all the Duke fans that were downplaying the cheats in preseason, they're definitely among the title favorites this year. Would hate, hate to see their delay tactics pay off with their 4th championship.

[slower]

Exactly. For all the Duke fans that were downplaying the cheats in preseason, they're definitely among the title favorites this year. Would hate, hate to see their delay tactics pay off with their 4th championship.

Yep. It's a calculated risk (the delay tactics), because they KNOW that another natty would offset whatever penalties they incur. Recruits wouldn't care - they just wouldn't - because all they'd see is that banner. And UNC will be back at the very top level again, if that happens.

[ricks68]

Pop Quiz: How many Duke of K's 12 Final Four teams didn't have a very good, All-ACC caliber PG? The only one is '94, when Grant effectively manned the point on offense. Scheyer was in someways a stopgap, but emerged to be very effective as a PG. I just wonder whether a) our defense will improve enough to lift us come March, or b) whether our lack of a true starting PG will be an achilles heel.

IMHO, ALL-ACC caliber and "effective" do not equate in my mind. We won the championship without a true point guard in 2010. So, it can be done.

ricks