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pfrduke
01-04-2016, 06:40 PM
Sorry for the two-week hiatus - work, travel, holidays, etc. Now we're into the real season with conference play. In the limited results to date, the league's expected top dogs have looked like just that, with Pitt also putting in an impressive performance. Due to scheduling and talent, the current roster of undefeateds in conference play is UNC, Virginia, Louisville, Duke, Miami, and Pittsburgh - exactly what one would expect. Oh, and just because nothing can go exactly as expected, Virginia Tech. But I suspect that won't last the day.

This is a test week for the top as virtually all of them have at least one road game (Miami gets to stay in Coral Gables for its single game this week). None of the top 6 teams play each other, so they all could still be unbeaten this time next week, but they'll have to survive what can be viewed as "trap" games (i.e., trips to lower ranked but still threatening opponents) to get there. Here's what the lineup looks like:

Monday

[40]Florida State hosts [13]North Carolina (7:00, ESPN) - Oklahoma/Kansas is clearly the headliner tonight, but this is a pretty tasty appetizer.
[125]Virginia Tech hosts [3]Virginia (9:00, ESPN2)

Tuesday

[62]Syracuse hosts [89]Clemson (8:00, ESPN3)

Wednesday

[91]Wake Forest hosts [10]Duke (7:00, ESPNU)
[27]Pittsburgh hosts [72]Georgia Tech (7:00, ESPN3)

Thursday

[190]Boston College hosts [31]Notre Dame (7:00, ESPN3)
[77]NC State hosts [5]Louisville (7:00, ESPN2)

Friday is dark

Saturday

[10]Duke hosts [125]Virginia Tech (12:00, ESPN3)
[72]Georgia Tech hosts [3]Virginia (2:00, ESPN3)
[31]Notre Dame hosts [27]Pittsburgh (4:00, ESPN3)
[12]Miami hosts [40]Florida State (5:00, ESPN2)
[62]Syracuse hosts [13]North Carolina (8:00, ESPN)

Sunday

[89]Clemson hosts [5]Louisville (12:00, ESPN3)
[91]Wake Forest hosts [77]NC State (8:00, ESPNU)

dukelifer
01-04-2016, 07:15 PM
UNC making it look easy right now.

Olympic Fan
01-04-2016, 07:16 PM
Eight of the first nine ACC games played so far have been won by the home team -- and while Duke has the one road win, I don't think beating a terrible BC team counts for much. Win at Wake Wednesday and THEN I'll be impressed.

Two real tests for the home teams tonight -- in both cases (UNC at FSU; UVa at VPI) the road team is favored.

Neither is a lock, but since I think Virginia is better than UNC and FSU is better that VPI, I naturally think the UNC at FSU game will be the more closely contested.

Real big game for Florida State -- their loss last weekend at Clemson was a blow for a team with NCAA ambitions. Not that any ACC road loss is terrible (unless it's at BC), but it's still a team that FSU should have beaten. I know it's early, but they need to upset UNC at home to bolster their resume.

I know Kansas-Oklahoma is the big one tonight -- and I'll be checking that -- but most of my focus at 9 p.m. will be on Virginia-VPI.

dukelifer
01-04-2016, 07:35 PM
Eight of the first nine ACC games played so far have been won by the home team -- and while Duke has the one road win, I don't think beating a terrible BC team counts for much. Win at Wake Wednesday and THEN I'll be impressed.

Two real tests for the home teams tonight -- in both cases (UNC at FSU; UVa at VPI) the road team is favored.

Neither is a lock, but since I think Virginia is better than UNC and FSU is better that VPI, I naturally think the UNC at FSU game will be the more closely contested.

Real big game for Florida State -- their loss last weekend at Clemson was a blow for a team with NCAA ambitions. Not that any ACC road loss is terrible (unless it's at BC), but it's still a team that FSU should have beaten. I know it's early, but they need to upset UNC at home to bolster their resume.

I know Kansas-Oklahoma is the big one tonight -- and I'll be checking that -- but most of my focus at 9 p.m. will be on Virginia-VPI.

Florida State has some big guys- one is 7' 5"- wow. But none can really shoot. UNC is a bad matchup. They are playing better but UNC is talented.

dukelifer
01-04-2016, 08:25 PM
Florida State has some big guys- one is 7' 5"- wow. But none can really shoot. UNC is a bad matchup. They are playing better but UNC is talented.

Florida State playing much better! Their athletes are taking over right now.

dukelifer
01-04-2016, 08:34 PM
Florida State playing much better! Their athletes are taking over right now.

Brice Johnson killing FSU. That kid is much better this year. Not sure how many teams will have an answer for him. Very long and very quick around the basket.

dukelifer
01-04-2016, 08:54 PM
Brice Johnson killing FSU. That kid is much better this year. Not sure how many teams will have an answer for him. Very long and very quick around the basket.

37 pts and 21 rebounds with 4 minutes to go- wow

Newton_14
01-04-2016, 09:16 PM
37 pts and 21 rebounds with 4 minutes to go- wow


make that 37 and 23 now. Crazy

dukelifer
01-04-2016, 09:23 PM
make that 37 and 23 now. Crazy

Never thought he could do that against FSU. They are long and historically a good defensive team.

CDu
01-04-2016, 09:40 PM
Never thought he could do that against FSU. They are long and historically a good defensive team.

They are young this year, and Hamilton is still trying to figure out the right vombinations. It may take time for the defense to get it together, if they get it together at all. FSU has no shortage of athletes, but they aren't a very cohesive or consistent group so far.

duke09hms
01-04-2016, 09:50 PM
Where are all the people that dismissed UNC as a title contender this year? They are definitely one of the few favorites this year. Experience, talent, and athleticism, they have it all. I wish it were simply a case of the same team minus a losing a talented Tokoto, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.

wilson
01-04-2016, 09:54 PM
...Hamilton is still trying to figure out the right vombinations.I think you meant something else. "Vombinations" are what you get when you combine Roy Williams' ethics with Sylvia Hatchell's wardrobe.

CDu
01-04-2016, 10:02 PM
I think you meant something else. "Vombinations" are what you get when you combine Roy Williams' ethics with Sylvia Hatchell's wardrobe.

Ha! Me and my fat fingers hitting "v" instead of "c". Whoops!

CDu
01-04-2016, 10:04 PM
Where are all the people that dismissed UNC as a title contender this year? They are definitely one of the few favorites this year. Experience, talent, and athleticism, they have it all. I wish it were simply a case of the same team minus a losing a talented Tokoto, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.

Well, they did just give up 90 to a pretty mediocre FSU team. That being said, I do think they are one of the top 10 teams in the country. Of course, I thought that going in, so perhaps I am not your target audience.

wilson
01-04-2016, 10:06 PM
Where are all the people that dismissed UNC as a title contender this year? They are definitely one of the few favorites this year. Experience, talent, and athleticism, they have it all. I wish it were simply a case of the same team minus a losing a talented Tokoto, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.


Ha! Me and my fat fingers hitting "v" instead of "c". Whoops!


Well, they did just give up 90 to a pretty mediocre FSU team. That being said, I do think they are one of the top 10 teams in the country. Of course, I thought that going in, so perhaps I am not your target audience.Unfortunately for college hoops, "Top 10 title contender" and "not that great" aren't necessarily mutually exclusive anymore, especially this year.

CDu
01-05-2016, 07:35 AM
The first big surprise of the ACC schedule: Va Tech knocks off UVa.

left_hook_lacey
01-05-2016, 08:08 AM
I think you meant something else. "Vombinations" are what you get when you combine Roy Williams' ethics with Sylvia Hatchell's wardrobe.

Tried to spork, alas, I was not allowed. :(

Ichabod Drain
01-05-2016, 08:13 AM
Where are all the people that dismissed UNC as a title contender this year?

Probably watching two of the best teams in the country go at it, Kansas and Oklahoma.

left_hook_lacey
01-05-2016, 08:16 AM
Where are all the people that dismissed UNC as a title contender this year? They are definitely one of the few favorites this year. Experience, talent, and athleticism, they have it all. I wish it were simply a case of the same team minus a losing a talented Tokoto, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.

I'm right here. Not only did I dismiss UNC as a title contender, I said they would finish outside the top 15. I stand by it.

Was Brice Coleman(see front page article) scoring 29 and 23 back when I made that predicition? No. But I think he'll have a mental collapse after a bad game and go back to his cry baby ways.

whereinthehellami
01-05-2016, 08:42 AM
Wow, the Hokies were shorthanded also.

Troublemaker
01-05-2016, 09:07 AM
UVA really misses ACC DPOY Darion Atkins inside and also big, physical, athletic Justin Anderson on the wing. They're still a good defense but I have doubts about whether they can improve into a typical UVA great defense with current personnel. To a certain extent, freedom of movement rules have affected them as well.

They've shot really well from three so far this season in order to have a (currently) top 5 offense. But man, once Perrantes comes back down to Earth from his 59% mark on threes, I think we could be looking at a 3rd or 4th place ACC team. I wish Amile were healthy. I would just about guarantee we would've finished ahead of them (and may still).

-jk
01-05-2016, 09:33 AM
As of this morning on KenPom, top 10 offenses include 1) unc, 2) Duke, 4) ND, and 5) UVa. Pitt, Miami, and L'ville are in the second ten.

-jk

FerryFor50
01-05-2016, 09:39 AM
Wow, the Hokies were shorthanded also.

And they shot like garbage from the FT line.

As for Johnson, one of my UNC friends posted a status about Brice's big game and I reminded him that they only had to wait 4 years for that. He didn't take kindly to it. (and of course it devolved into what school develops bigs better/vs what school selfishly keeps pro prospects from leaving early. But I digress...)

At any rate, that effort was the potential Johnson has always had but never could put together. There was talk about him being in the POY conversation now, but seriously? After one game? (Albeit, amazing performance)

I'd like to say that he dominated FSU even though they had all that size, but their biggest guys played only a combined 24 min due to foul trouble.

Johnson is definitely playing better this season, though and is finally turning that potential into results. Let's see if he can maintain.

FerryFor50
01-05-2016, 09:43 AM
As of this morning on KenPom, top 10 offenses include 1) unc, 2) Duke, 4) ND, and 5) UVa. Pitt, Miami, and L'ville are in the second ten.

-jk

Conversely, the defensive rankings for those teams...

UNC - 62
Duke - 54
ND - 195
UVA - 30
Pitt - 116
Miami - 21
L'Ville - 3

Only the Cardinal have a top 10 defense. None of the others are in the top 20. Going to be a wild ride this season in the ACC. :)

dukelifer
01-05-2016, 09:57 AM
And they shot like garbage from the FT line.

As for Johnson, one of my UNC friends posted a status about Brice's big game and I reminded him that they only had to wait 4 years for that. He didn't take kindly to it. (and of course it devolved into what school develops bigs better/vs what school selfishly keeps pro prospects from leaving early. But I digress...)

At any rate, that effort was the potential Johnson has always had but never could put together. There was talk about him being in the POY conversation now, but seriously? After one game? (Albeit, amazing performance)

I'd like to say that he dominated FSU even though they had all that size, but their biggest guys played only a combined 24 min due to foul trouble.

Johnson is definitely playing better this season, though and is finally turning that potential into results. Let's see if he can maintain.

Most of Johnson's points were from drive and dishes and offensive rebounds. He is very quick off his feet. His skill set is not super advanced but if you don'f find him and box him out, he will get rebounds. I would guess that Amile could handle him (not sure Marshall can) but while the FSU players are big but their fundamentals are not great. FSU was just not physical enough with Johnson- but there is no doubt that he can put up numbers.

BD80
01-05-2016, 09:59 AM
Conversely, the defensive rankings for those teams...

UNC - 62
Duke - 54
ND - 195
UVA - 30
Pitt - 116
Miami - 21
L'Ville - 3

Only the Cardinal have a top 10 defense. None of the others are in the top 20. Going to be a wild ride this season in the ACC. :)

The o/u for Pitt/ND could be 200

DukieTiger
01-05-2016, 10:49 AM
UVA really misses ACC DPOY Darion Atkins inside and also big, physical, athletic Justin Anderson on the wing. They're still a good defense but I have doubts about whether they can improve into a typical UVA great defense with current personnel. To a certain extent, freedom of movement rules have affected them as well.

They've shot really well from three so far this season in order to have a (currently) top 5 offense. But man, once Perrantes comes back down to Earth from his 59% mark on threes, I think we could be looking at a 3rd or 4th place ACC team. I wish Amile were healthy. I would just about guarantee we would've finished ahead of them (and may still).

After last night's loss to VT, Pomeroy's numbers went from projecting UVA to finish 14-4 in conference to a 12-6 projection. Interestingly, UVA is still the most highly rated ACC team in the Pomeroy rankings- but now have a less favorable projection than the Louisville/Duke/UNC/Miami group, who are all projected to finish 13-5. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Bob Green
01-05-2016, 03:39 PM
His skill set is not super advanced but if you don'f find him and box him out, he will get rebounds. I would guess that Amile could handle him (not sure Marshall can) but while the FSU players are big but their fundamentals are not great.

If Amile Jefferson is still unavailable on February 17, when we travel to Chapel Hill, I expect Brandon Ingram will draw the assignment to guard Brice Johnson. Marshall Plumlee will be on Kennedy Meeks or Joel James or Isaiah Hicks. Brice Johnson is way too quick for Plumlee.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-05-2016, 08:50 PM
His skill set is not super advanced but if you don'f find him and box him out, he will get rebounds. I would guess that Amile could handle him (not sure Marshall can) ...

You are wrong to think Johnson does not possess an advanced skill set. He's right there with the best in the country at his position. He has always shown great offensive skill and defensive promise. He has excellent, advanced, skills...strength, length, bounce, touch, soft hands, shoots a soft mid range jumper, blocks shots, rebounds in and out of his space and passes well. He's a complete college player...now.

What are the only real skills he should really work on?

I'll tell you...a consistently strong motor, (and I subscribe that as a very important skill) and better decision making. Roy has pounded on him about both his entire college career, with good reason.

But, some kids just take time to develope and mature. Duke has a similar kid with the same potential as Johnson showed as a freshman now in Jeter.

Johnson seems to finally be grasping his ability to impact games this season, and that's a problem for the other team on the floor.

Roy has done a great job taking that skinny, emotional kid down the path towards becoming an NBA professional.

FerryFor50
01-05-2016, 09:21 PM
You are wrong to think Johnson does not possess an advanced skill set. He's right there with the best in the country at his position. He has always shown great offensive skill and defensive promise. He has excellent, advanced, skills...strength, length, bounce, touch, soft hands, shoots a soft mid range jumper, blocks shots, rebounds in and out of his space and passes well. He's a complete college player...now.

What are the only real skills he should really work on?

I'll tell you...a consistently strong motor, (and I subscribe that as a very important skill) and better decision making. Roy has pounded on him about both his entire college career, with good reason.

But, some kids just take time to develope and mature. Duke has a similar kid with the same potential as Johnson showed as a freshman now in Jeter.

Johnson seems to finally be grasping his ability to impact games this season, and that's a problem for the other team on the floor.

Roy has done a great job taking that skinny, emotional kid down the path towards becoming an NBA professional.

Comparing Jeter to Brice? Brice was wayyyy more polished offensively as a freshman. Had great touch from day 1. His issue was always his motor.

CDu
01-05-2016, 09:29 PM
Comparing Jeter to Brice? Brice was wayyyy more polished offensively as a freshman. Had great touch from day 1. His issue was always his motor.

Motor and frame. He was a bit of a stick as a frosh. By his sophomore year, though, it was all about the (lack of) motor as you said.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-05-2016, 09:32 PM
After last night's loss to VT, Pomeroy's numbers went from projecting UVA to finish 14-4 in conference to a 12-6 projection. Interestingly, UVA is still the most highly rated ACC team in the Pomeroy rankings- but now have a less favorable projection than the Louisville/Duke/UNC/Miami group, who are all projected to finish 13-5. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

As a UNC fan, what is so promising to me is that I think we still have not put it all together in a game yet this season.

They have played some really good, high level games, so far...Iowa St., Texas, FSU, and especially Maryland, (which is the only game they've played at full strength). The Ga. tech game was a good, competitive game too.

As strong as they looked at FSU, keep in mind that of five starters..Berry played poorly overall that game...and while Jackson is playing well all over the floor, he continued to struggle with his outside shot. And they still scored 106 against a big, athletic team on the road.

Roy is driving some UNC fans crazy with his substitution patterns, but I get it and I like what he does. That willingness to sub his bench key minutes sometimes allows a team to stay in a game, and I will grant that has contributed to the 2 close losses. But he's coaching for the tournament and the future now, not trying to go undefeated.

Take a kid like Kenny Williams. He has talent, but he hasn't been getting much freshman PT. Roy played him some key, pressure minutes at FSU. Showed him he had confidence in him and let him taste what a big time conference road game is like. He's been doing the same with Luke Maye and he did it the last 3/4 years with guys like Britt and Joel James...who has become a post threat that can't be ignored despite limited skills because he now has confidence and experience. And Britt can come in and run the point in the clutch from the bench against anybody and hold his own.

Anyways, I'm confident UNC is only going to get better and that the conference title will have to go through the Heels this year.

Wheat/"/"/"
01-05-2016, 09:41 PM
Comparing Jeter to Brice? Brice was wayyyy more polished offensively as a freshman. Had great touch from day 1. His issue was always his motor.

Yea, Brice did show more touch from day one. No arguement there.

But my point was there is a potential similar trajectory. Jeter has real talent too... like Brice did as a freshman.

It's just going to take effort in the weight room, good coaching and patience to allow him to develope.

jv001
01-06-2016, 09:36 AM
Yea, Brice did show more touch from day one. No arguement there.

But my point was there is a potential similar trajectory. Jeter has real talent too... like Brice did as a freshman.

It's just going to take effort in the weight room, good coaching and patience to allow him to develope.

Not even close Johnson vs. Jeter as freshmen. So far I'm not too impressed with Jeter. I know the coaches see lot's of potential in him, but I've not seen it as a senior in high school or at Duke. But hey, Coach K knows way more than I do, so I'll just take his word that Chase will be a good player before he leaves Duke University. As for your team the cheats, I think you are correct in that they have not reached their potential. Berry has been a good player for them and I think he will only get better. Now all that said, I hope the cheats don't win another game all year, :cool: GoDuke!

FerryFor50
01-06-2016, 10:54 AM
Yea, Brice did show more touch from day one. No arguement there.

But my point was there is a potential similar trajectory. Jeter has real talent too... like Brice did as a freshman.

It's just going to take effort in the weight room, good coaching and patience to allow him to develope.

For Jeter, it will take that proverbial "game slowing down for him" to occur for him to be effective. He's an energy guy with decent touch at the rim, but he tends to play too fast and ends up making his next move before he's finished the previous one.

CDu
01-06-2016, 11:39 AM
For Jeter, it will take that proverbial "game slowing down for him" to occur for him to be effective. He's an energy guy with decent touch at the rim, but he tends to play too fast and ends up making his next move before he's finished the previous one.

In a recent game (or maybe it was on Inside Duke Basketball with Coach K), someone was discussing how in high school the game just isn't as physical. The refs don't allow the level of physicality that is allowed in the college game. Combine that with the fact that college players are much bigger, older, stronger, and more accustomed to physical play, and it's a real learning curve.

We're seeing that with some of the freshman bigs across the country. Sometimes guys aren't ready for it, and they make other mistakes trying to compensate (playing too fast, for example). Skal Labissiere, Stephen Zimmerman, and Cheick Diallo are all struggling to various degrees. Jeter seems to be in the same boat.

I've not seen Jeter really play well yet, but part of that is because I've only seen him play in high school all-star games (where less explosive, "energy" bigs don't usually shine) and in college. So I hope that with time he figures it out. But I do wonder if it is going to be this year or (like Kelly and MP2 before him) it takes a year or two to get there.

FerryFor50
01-06-2016, 11:49 AM
In a recent game (or maybe it was on Inside Duke Basketball with Coach K), someone was discussing how in high school the game just isn't as physical. The refs don't allow the level of physicality that is allowed in the college game. Combine that with the fact that college players are much bigger, older, stronger, and more accustomed to physical play, and it's a real learning curve.

We're seeing that with some of the freshman bigs across the country. Sometimes guys aren't ready for it, and they make other mistakes trying to compensate (playing too fast, for example). Skal Labissiere, Stephen Zimmerman, and Cheick Diallo are all struggling to various degrees. Jeter seems to be in the same boat.

I've not seen Jeter really play well yet, but part of that is because I've only seen him play in high school all-star games (where less explosive, "energy" bigs don't usually shine) and in college. So I hope that with time he figures it out. But I do wonder if it is going to be this year or (like Kelly and MP2 before him) it takes a year or two to get there.

He flashed some potential in the LBSU game with some good hustle/energy plays and a block or two.

But he's got MP3 hands right now.

CDu
01-06-2016, 11:50 AM
He flashed some potential in the LBSU game with some good hustle/energy plays and a block or two.

But he's got MP3 hands right now.

And Casey Sanders coordination after contact. I think the ability to play through contact is one of those skills that is hard to learn, and not everyone can do it. I know I couldn't - if I had an angle, I could get to the rim, but I was never good at fighting through contact. My roommate though was always really strong playing through contact.

I suspect that Sanders never got past that problem. He was a gazelle in open space, but as soon as you bumped him he collapsed into a puddled mess. Mason had a bit of that problem (to a much lesser degree) early in his career, but he overcame it. I think Jeter has that problem (again, to a bit of a lesser degree than Sanders) at the moment.

CDu
01-07-2016, 09:32 PM
Notre Dame put a whooping on the JV - I mean, BC team. Closer to home, the Pack notched another loss, this time to Louisville.

Duke79UNLV77
01-07-2016, 10:23 PM
Could this be Pitino's secret to Louisville's great start? He sends his players to infiltrate the opponents' bench to steal strategery?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LeH61xv5aY

Newton_14
01-07-2016, 10:24 PM
Comparing Jeter to Brice? Brice was wayyyy more polished offensively as a freshman. Had great touch from day 1. His issue was always his motor. And he still can't guard his shadow...

AIRFORCEDUKIE
01-08-2016, 08:19 AM
I am really looking forward to the battle of the Florida teams. Miami has looked really good, but FSU always plays them tough and has the players to beat them. Should be a really interesting game.

Neals384
01-08-2016, 09:33 AM
Notre Dame put a whooping on the JV - I mean, BC team. Closer to home, the Pack notched another loss, this time to Louisville.

Watched part of the Louisville - State game. State wore their black uni's - at home. What's the world coming to?

CDu
01-08-2016, 09:45 AM
Watched part of the Louisville - State game. State wore their black uni's - at home. What's the world coming to?

Yeah, that was weird. I didn't get to watch much of the game, as I was watching an NBA game instead. The little I saw had Louisville cruising. Looks like Rowan and Martin hit a bunch of threes in the second half to make it a fairly close game.

That team is sorely lacking in ballhandlers. They pretty much are running Cat Barber into the ground.

tbyers11
01-08-2016, 10:12 AM
Yeah, that was weird. I didn't get to watch much of the game, as I was watching an NBA game instead. The little I saw had Louisville cruising. Looks like Rowan and Martin hit a bunch of threes in the second half to make it a fairly close game.

That team is sorely lacking in ballhandlers. They pretty much are running Cat Barber into the ground.

Yeah, Louisville did have a fairly comfortable double digit lead until those two got hot from 3 for NCST. After that the last few minutes were no Laugh-In matter for Louisville.

OldPhiKap
01-08-2016, 10:16 AM
Yeah, that was weird. I didn't get to watch much of the game, as I was watching an NBA game instead. The little I saw had Louisville cruising. Looks like Rowan and Martin hit a bunch of threes in the second half to make it a fairly close game.

That team is sorely lacking in ballhandlers. They pretty much are running Cat Barber into the ground.

Sock it to me!

CDu
01-08-2016, 11:34 AM
Yeah, that was weird. I didn't get to watch much of the game, as I was watching an NBA game instead. The little I saw had Louisville cruising. Looks like Rowan and Martin hit a bunch of threes in the second half to make it a fairly close game.

That team is sorely lacking in ballhandlers. They pretty much are running Cat Barber into the ground.


Yeah, Louisville did have a fairly comfortable double digit lead until those two got hot from 3 for NCST. After that the last few minutes were no Laugh-In matter for Louisville.


Sock it to me!

I find these responses to be verrrrrry interesting... but stupid.

BD80
01-08-2016, 11:48 AM
I find these responses to be verrrrrry interesting... but stupid.

Say Goodnight Dick

Olympic Fan
01-08-2016, 11:48 AM
What struck me about the State-Louisville game was the difference in officiating from the Duke-Wake game the previous night.

The Duke-Wake game was called under the "new" rules -- every touch ... every bump was a foul. I thought there were some bogus calls in the game, but it was fairly consistent -- everything was a foul.

But the State-Louisville was the exact opposite. It was called the "old" way -- when incidental contact was not a foul. I know that NC State ended up shooting 31 free throws (and Louisville 19), but if it had been called as tight as the Duke-Wake game, the free throws would have almost doubled. I couldn't believe how often Barber was bumped as he looked for openings or went to the basket without getting a foul call.

Again, I think it was fairly consistent within the game -- just totally inconsistent with the night before.

I hope that's not going to be a problem as the season plays out -- going into each game without a good feel for how the game's going to be called.

rsvman
01-08-2016, 12:20 PM
Say Goodnight Dick

Goodnight, Dick.

-jk
01-08-2016, 12:22 PM
What struck me about the State-Louisville game was the difference in officiating from the Duke-Wake game the previous night.

The Duke-Wake game was called under the "new" rules -- every touch ... every bump was a foul. I thought there were some bogus calls in the game, but it was fairly consistent -- everything was a foul.

But the State-Louisville was the exact opposite. It was called the "old" way -- when incidental contact was not a foul. I know that NC State ended up shooting 31 free throws (and Louisville 19), but if it had been called as tight as the Duke-Wake game, the free throws would have almost doubled. I couldn't believe how often Barber was bumped as he looked for openings or went to the basket without getting a foul call.

Again, I think it was fairly consistent within the game -- just totally inconsistent with the night before.

I hope that's not going to be a problem as the season plays out -- going into each game without a good feel for how the game's going to be called.

I hope it's not like the last few years: Freedom of motion/foul fests in the fall, and a return to physical business-as-usual when conference play starts.

I like flowy hoops!

-jk

OldPhiKap
01-08-2016, 04:37 PM
I find these responses to be verrrrrry interesting... but stupid.

My first thought is: where is Goldie Hawn when I need her?

My second though is: aren't the last four words surpluferous?

BD80
01-08-2016, 04:45 PM
Goodnight, Dick.

The comma that beat the profanity filter

rasputin
01-08-2016, 05:23 PM
My first thought is: where is Goldie Hawn when I need her?

My second though is: aren't the last four words surpluferous?

You bet your sweet bippy they are.

Bonus question: what was the character name for Arte Johnson's dirty old man character?

Tripping William
01-08-2016, 08:45 PM
The comma that beat the profanity filter

You're a wanker for saying that.

Troublemaker
01-09-2016, 04:20 PM
UVA really misses ACC DPOY Darion Atkins inside and also big, physical, athletic Justin Anderson on the wing. They're still a good defense but I have doubts about whether they can improve into a typical UVA great defense with current personnel. To a certain extent, freedom of movement rules have affected them as well.

They've shot really well from three so far this season in order to have a (currently) top 5 offense. But man, once Perrantes comes back down to Earth from his 59% mark on threes, I think we could be looking at a 3rd or 4th place ACC team. I wish Amile were healthy. I would just about guarantee we would've finished ahead of them (and may still).

Hmmm, I'm thinking 4th or 5th place team now for UVA.

GaTech looked pretty good, though. Probably not a tournament team, but they're going to kill people on the boards this season, and they can shoot much better than previous seasons. Our game against them in Atlanta is potentially a very tough one.

dukelifer
01-09-2016, 04:35 PM
Hmmm, I'm thinking 4th or 5th place team now for UVA.

GaTech looked pretty good, though. Probably not a tournament team, but they're going to kill people on the boards this season, and they can shoot much better than previous seasons. Our game against them in Atlanta is potentially a very tough one.

All I know is that UVa won't be ranked 4.

CameronDuke
01-09-2016, 06:40 PM
Hard to believe Virginia, the reigning back to back ACC regular season champions who posted consecutive 16-2 seasons in the league, and also winning an ACC Tournament championship in one of those years, is 1-2 out of the gates after losing on the road in Atlanta 68-64 today to Georgia Tech. No, they're not the same team after losing Justin Anderson and Darion Atkins from last year's squad, and no I didn't expect them to be 16-2 again this season. But I don't think many people suspected two of their losses to be at VT and GT. Sorry, but those two teams aren't exactly NCAA Tournament teams. I would be shocked if either squad made the NCAA Tournment, to be honest. Virginia still has a ton of tough conference games left: home and homes with Miami and Louisville, at FSU, Duke, Clemson, Wake Forest, and Pitt, and at home vs UNC. You know, would it be shocking for UVA to go something like 13-2 over their last 15? No, Tony Bennett is a star in the making. That still gets them to 14-4. I really don't know what their final record will be but it helps Duke's chances to finally win the league in the regular season and tournament to finally get UVA to play catch up in the standings the remainder of the season, rather than vice versa like it was the last two seasons. Duke currently has a two game lead on Virginia, something that rarely happened the past two seasons.

Olympic Fan
01-09-2016, 07:06 PM
First, no conference road loss is a huge upset (unless it involves a loss at BC).

Second, Virginia's two road losses this week are a big setback for a team that has won the last two ACC regular season titles. The loss today reminded me of the Duke loss to Utah -- in that the Cavs missed a half-million close-in shots, plus another quarter-million wide open 3s.

Third, Virginia's troubles could help Duke in a very tangible way ... or at least help Duke fans without the money to pay for an expensive NCAA first weekend on the road. Two ACC teams are likely to be seeded for the subregional in Raleigh and the competition seems to be between Duke, UNC and Virginia for those two spots. Two years ago in Raleigh, UNC was the odd man out with Duke and UVa getting the Raleigh site. Last season, Duke and Virginia got Charlotte and UNC once again had to travel.

I know the site isn't a huge advantage in NCAA play (we did after all lose in Greensboro in 2012 and in Raleigh in 2014), but as a Tobacco Road based fan, I'd still rather see Duke play close to home. So I'll be watching the Duke-UNC-Virginia dynamic all season. In that race, every Virginia stumble helps.

devildeac
01-09-2016, 07:27 PM
First, no conference road loss is a huge upset (unless it involves a loss at BC).

Second, Virginia's two road losses this week are a big setback for a team that has won the last two ACC regular season titles. The loss today reminded me of the Duke loss to Utah -- in that the Cavs missed a half-million close-in shots, plus another quarter-million wide open 3s.

Third, Virginia's troubles could help Duke in a very tangible way ... or at least help Duke fans without the money to pay for an expensive NCAA first weekend on the road. Two ACC teams are likely to be seeded for the subregional in Raleigh and the competition seems to be between Duke, UNC and Virginia for those two spots. Two years ago in Raleigh, UNC was the odd man out with Duke and UVa getting the Raleigh site. Last season, Duke and Virginia got Charlotte and UNC once again had to travel.

I know the site isn't a huge advantage in NCAA play (we did after all lose in Greensboro in 2012 and in Raleigh in 2014), but as a Tobacco Road based fan, I'd still rather see Duke play close to home. So I'll be watching the Duke-UNC-Virginia dynamic all season. In that race, every Virginia stumble helps.

I understand your point but I'd much rather see the cheaters stumble more...

;)

Troublemaker
01-09-2016, 07:29 PM
You know, would it be shocking for UVA to go something like 13-2 over their last 15? No, Tony Bennett is a star in the making.

Maybe not shocking, but it'd be pretty darn surprising, though. Like you said, their schedule is very tough.

When Miami travels to Charlottesville on Tuesday, I'll be rooting for the Hoos full stop.

The Canes are the true threat this year, and Larranaga is also an excellent coach. I view Miami and UNC as the co-favorites* as of today. When Larranaga moved Kamari Murphy into the starting lineup in place of Uceda a few games ago, Miami suddenly became an excellent defensive team. And their offense is pretty darn good as well, with talented guards that can really take advantage of the rules.

* With each ACC game Duke plays, I become more tempted to name us as a tri-favorite alongside the Heels and Canes.

CameronDuke
01-09-2016, 08:32 PM
First, no conference road loss is a huge upset (unless it involves a loss at BC).


I agree with most of your analysis and the general sentiment that most ACC teams can be counted on to hold serve at home this season, but Virginia losing at Virginia Tech, by all means in my mind, was an upset. I like the direction Buzz Williams is taking Virginia Tech but Virginia was favored by 13 points that game in most spots, and Virginia Tech is still pretty bad this year. They are about 131st RPI and probably will not make the NCAA Tournament this season. That's a game Virginia needs to win.

CameronDuke
01-09-2016, 08:35 PM
Maybe not shocking, but it'd be pretty darn surprising, though. Like you said, their schedule is very tough.

When Miami travels to Charlottesville on Tuesday, I'll be rooting for the Hoos full stop.

The Canes are the true threat this year, and Larranaga is also an excellent coach. I view Miami and UNC as the co-favorites* as of today. When Larranaga moved Kamari Murphy into the starting lineup in place of Uceda a few games ago, Miami suddenly became an excellent defensive team. And their offense is pretty darn good as well, with talented guards that can really take advantage of the rules.

* With each ACC game Duke plays, I become more tempted to name us as a tri-favorite alongside the Heels and Canes.

Yes, I honestly think Virginia could lose between 2-5 games easily the remainder of the conference season. They had a great 11-1 out of conference run with wins over West Virginia and Villanova but struggled at home vs California (won in OT) and Oakland for most of the game. They still are a 3-4 seed at worst for the NCAA Tournament in my mind though - if they adjust their tempo offensively and allow Brogdon to be more assertive and aggressive offensively, especially in the first half of games, I think that could improve to a 2 seed at worst.

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-09-2016, 08:44 PM
Listening to Bilas call the hole game. What's wrong with me? Apparently according to Bilas, there is no one better in the country at hitting medium range shots than Brice Johnson and no one better than Justin Jackson at hitting runners. What a maroon.

jv001
01-09-2016, 08:57 PM
Yes, I honestly think Virginia could lose between 2-5 games easily the remainder of the conference season. They had a great 11-1 out of conference run with wins over West Virginia and Villanova but struggled at home vs California (won in OT) and Oakland for most of the game. They still are a 3-4 seed at worst for the NCAA Tournament in my mind though - if they adjust their tempo offensively and allow Brogdon to be more assertive and aggressive offensively, especially in the first half of games, I think that could improve to a 2 seed at worst.

Counting Virginia out this early, may be a bit premature but I have to agree they are not looking like the same Virginia team of the past two years. However, they have a great coach and a very good guard in Brogdon. I hope they play their best basketball when they play the cheats though and win of course. GoDuke!

Furniture
01-09-2016, 09:29 PM
What a fantastic atmosphere at Syracuse! Great addition to the ACC.

CameronDuke
01-09-2016, 09:31 PM
Counting Virginia out this early, may be a bit premature but I have to agree they are not looking like the same Virginia team of the past two years. However, they have a great coach and a very good guard in Brogdon. I hope they play their best basketball when they play the cheats though and win of course. GoDuke!

I agree, they are still dangerous, but I think teams are figuring out how to beat the pack line defense. They really miss Atkins in the paint on defense who was last season's ACC Defensive Player of the Year. They love to trap in the post but have looked a bit slow in that defensive scheme this season and teams are starting to figure out that if trapped in the post, they pass to the opposite corner or wing, a wide open three can usually be attempted. There are other ways to also space the floor and pass the basketball inside out against the pack like that opens up driving lanes and open shots. Good interior passing from the front court of teams gives the pack line problems. That, and they really don't have a consistent scorer that has the cold blooded killer instinct in them. Some of this is part of the offensive principles Tony Bennett preaches - he likes to pass the ball around and make the defense work and get the shot clock worn down before attempting a shot usually. I have said since last season if Brogdon played in an offensive scheme that allowed more creativity, quicker tempo, and more aggressiveness, he could average 20 points per game easily. He is a legitimate guard, if not one of the top 4-5 guards in the league. Perrantes was shooting something like 59% from 3 coming into today. Gill, at times, looks disinterested and unfocused but when he decides to take over, he can be dangerous. Tobey is inconsistent but can finish around the rim and is a serviceable 7 footer. They have the pieces - the key for them will be to somehow adjust their offensive schematics to allow for more firepower and assertiveness, perhaps by allowing more drives from Brogdon. Heck, the other night, they had 21 points in the first half but 47 in the second half in a loss at Virginia Tech. They can score when allowed to be aggressive. They also need a consistent force in the post on defense. They are not there yet but in two more months they could be playing much better basketball.

CDu
01-09-2016, 10:18 PM
Listening to Bilas call the hole game. What's wrong with me? Apparently according to Bilas, there is no one better in the country at hitting medium range shots than Brice Johnson and no one better than Justin Jackson at hitting runners. What a maroon.

It is funny. In his early days at ESPN, Bilas' regular smarmy comment was to make fun of announcers who would throw out platitudes like that, saying "so you have personally seen every player/team in the country?" Now he has become one of them.

BD80
01-09-2016, 10:56 PM
It is funny. In his early days at ESPN, Bilas' regular smarmy comment was to make fun of announcers who would throw out platitudes like that, saying "so you have personally seen every player/team in the country?" Now he has become one of them.

Jay may have seen "every player/team in the country." At least more than just about any other analyst.

WakeDevil
01-10-2016, 12:13 AM
What a fantastic atmosphere at Syracuse! Great addition to the ACC.

Syracuse, BC and Pitt can take their hind quarters back to the Big East. I will never pull for them in anything, even against the Evil Empire. Your boy Swofford and his cronies ruined this league.

jhmoss1812
01-10-2016, 12:21 AM
Obviously very frustrating to lose back to back games to VT and GT. Both were on the road and the guys got off to slow starts in both games and had to play catch up both times. That's been an issue this year in a lot of games and I think that's been one issue we have that is completely inexplicable. Makes me realize how important Justin Anderson was to the program besides just being good at basketball. The defense is obviously not as good as in year's past. We lack a true rim protector and a guy that can handle the hedges and rotate back defensively quick enough. With that said, the defense isn't terrible by any means. I think we've just been spoiled. We're still #28 on Kenpom in adjusted D and, shockingly, #5 in adjusted offense. We've had some very good offensive performances this season (watch the Villanova game) but there are still too many inconsistencies and not a reliable third scorer behind Brogdon and Gill. Perrantes is stepping up in that role a bit but not enough to my liking. I'm not freaking out about the back to back losses but, considering we haven't had back to back losses in nearly 3 years, it's definitely cause for concern. It'll definitely be tough to win the regular season in the ACC with this hole but there's lots of basketball to play and I hope Bennett will make some adjustments and figure things out. With that said, if I'm being completely honest, this season is all about the NCAA tournament for me. We've had regular season and ACC tournament success these past two years and flamed out in the NCAAs too early. The regular season is obviously important for getting in the tourney and seeding but teams have been plenty successful in the NCAAs despite having some regular season struggles and setbacks. These losses have been eye-opening though and we're definitely not in the top tier of teams with UNC, Duke, Miami and maybe Louisville this year. But we'll still win our share of games in the ACC and be a tough out each and every night. If you can believe it, since Dec 30, 2013 (the 35-point loss to Tennessee), we haven't lost a game by more than 6 points.

Bob Green
01-10-2016, 08:38 AM
I know the site isn't a huge advantage in NCAA play (we did after all lose in Greensboro in 2012 and in Raleigh in 2014), but as a Tobacco Road based fan, I'd still rather see Duke play close to home. So I'll be watching the Duke-UNC-Virginia dynamic all season. In that race, every Virginia stumble helps.

Agreed. I very much desire for Duke to play at PNC Arena so I'll have the opportunity to attend the games. Is my reasoning self-centered? Absolutely, but it is what it is so while I like Tony Bennett as a coach and am happy to see him building a strong program at Virginia, I'm not shedding tears over Cavalier losses.

CDu
01-10-2016, 10:11 AM
Jay may have seen "every player/team in the country." At least more than just about any other analyst.

He most assuredly hasn't seen every player/team in the country, let alone seen enough of every player in the country to correctly make the statements he was making. He has just fallen into the same lazy stuff that the other analysts do. Which is probably not uncommon as one does this more and more. It probably is difficult to stay fresh and innovative over time, and it is easy to fall into those same bad habits that others have fallen into.

CameronDuke
01-10-2016, 02:20 PM
Despite trying to give the game away in several, almost choreographed and creative ways in the final seconds, Clemson held on to defeat #16 Louisville at "home" in Greeneville, South Carolina 66-62 . Winning on the road this season has been extremely rare around the league.

Olympic Fan
01-10-2016, 02:57 PM
Got to give Clemson credit, but Louisville was amazing bad ...

Missed their first 15 3-point shots even though most of them were their best shooters getting wide open shots.

They ended up 3-23 from 3. Pretty bad for a team hitting .386 from 3 coming in (better than Duke).

Louisville also missed a ton of easy shots around the basket and had two silly turnovers in the final minute, when they could have grabbed the game.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to diminish Clemson's win -- they are going to be tough Wednesday night -- but this one is on Louisville. They were terrible.

Troublemaker
01-10-2016, 03:34 PM
Incidentally, with Louisville's loss to Clemson, Duke is now the highest-rated KenPom team, edging out UVA by a sliver at the time of this writing.

(Of course, that's pretty meaningless this early in the season. As I stated above, I believe UNC and Miami are the co-favorites for the conference.)

CameronDuke
01-10-2016, 10:06 PM
Wake Forest just defeated NC State 77-74 in Winston-Salem, North Carolina as another ACC team held serve at home. NC State falls to 10-6 overall and 0-3 in the ACC. We are going to learn a lot about where NC State's season is going after their next four ACC games - they host FSU Wednesday before traveling to UNC and Pitt and then hosting Duke. If they can somehow manage two wins in their next four, I would consider that a success for Mark Gottfried based on how his team has opened their ACC slate. Hosting FSU Wednesday night in Raleigh, although it's still very early, is a must win game for the Wolfpack if they want an outside shot at the NCAA Tournament this season considering their remaining league schedule (home and homes with Duke, UNC, and FSU, at Pitt, at UVA, at Notre Dame, at Syracuse, and hosting Miami and Georgia Tech to name a few).

CDu
01-11-2016, 08:14 AM
Wake Forest just defeated NC State 77-74 in Winston-Salem, North Carolina as another ACC team held serve at home. NC State falls to 10-6 overall and 0-3 in the ACC. We are going to learn a lot about where NC State's season is going after their next four ACC games - they host FSU Wednesday before traveling to UNC and Pitt and then hosting Duke. If they can somehow manage two wins in their next four, I would consider that a success for Mark Gottfried based on how his team has opened their ACC slate. Hosting FSU Wednesday night in Raleigh, although it's still very early, is a must win game for the Wolfpack if they want an outside shot at the NCAA Tournament this season considering their remaining league schedule (home and homes with Duke, UNC, and FSU, at Pitt, at UVA, at Notre Dame, at Syracuse, and hosting Miami and Georgia Tech to name a few).

Yeah, I find it very unlikely at this point that State gets an at large bid. They have a huge uphill battle, and they just don't have the firepower to do it. They have one of the five best players in the ACC in Barber, but literally no other impact players. Barber is the only guy who can dribble or pass, and they have no above-average shooters (and just three average shooters.

The loss of Trevor Lacey and the injury to Terry Henderson have just torpedoed their season. Maybe Henderson comes back and plays well, but I am skeptical with injuries like that to guards (at least in the near-term). It is a shame, too, because Barber is putting together a heck of a season.

CameronDuke
01-11-2016, 09:03 AM
Yeah, I find it very unlikely at this point that State gets an at large bid. They have a huge uphill battle, and they just don't have the firepower to do it. They have one of the five best players in the ACC in Barber, but literally no other impact players. Barber is the only guy who can dribble or pass, and they have no above-average shooters (and just three average shooters.

The loss of Trevor Lacey and the injury to Terry Henderson have just torpedoed their season. Maybe Henderson comes back and plays well, but I am skeptical with injuries like that to guards (at least in the near-term). It is a shame, too, because Barber is putting together a heck of a season.

I agree, Barber is a monster and putting together a fine season. The toughest part about the Henderson injury has been forcing guys into roles that they just aren't ready to undertake quite yet. Like you said, offensively, all they really have going right now is Barber. Rowan is inconsistent right now in his career. They need Abu to be a double double guy every night right now (really they need him to be a 20 and 10 guy) and Anya needs to score in the post more. I like Rowan but he's really raw right now. I still think with the Dennis Smith, Jr. signing, Gottfried gets 1-2 more years after this season even if they miss the NCAA Tournament given his success in the tourney previously at NC State and the recent contract extension he signed.

CDu
01-11-2016, 09:24 AM
I agree, Barber is a monster and putting together a fine season. The toughest part about the Henderson injury has been forcing guys into roles that they just aren't ready to undertake quite yet. Like you said, offensively, all they really have going right now is Barber. Rowan is inconsistent right now in his career. They need Abu to be a double double guy every night right now (really they need him to be a 20 and 10 guy) and Anya needs to score in the post more. I like Rowan but he's really raw right now. I still think with the Dennis Smith, Jr. signing, Gottfried gets 1-2 more years after this season even if they miss the NCAA Tournament given his success in the tourney previously at NC State and the recent contract extension he signed.

Agreed. With Lacey and a healthy Henderson, Rowan becomes purely a backup and small-time contributor, and Martin takes a big step back in terms of role (he might not even start). Even with a healthy Henderson, they are probably a decent team, with Rowan being just a backup role player rather than a starter, and Martin being the third/fourth option on offense.

I do think Gottfried has built up enough equity for now with his previous successes, and the unexpected transfer of Lacey made this year already a bit of a pass. Not that he would want to completely write off the season, but I think he can get away with this one for sure.

Troublemaker
01-11-2016, 10:09 AM
I do think Gottfried has built up enough equity for now with his previous successes, and the unexpected transfer of Lacey made this year already a bit of a pass. Not that he would want to completely write off the season, but I think he can get away with this one for sure.

Yep, plus -- after Gottfried misses this year's tournament, he'll be right back in next year's tournament with a Sweet 16 (at least) contender.

NCSU 2016-17

Fr Smith...Jr Henderson
Sr Barber...Jr CodyM
Jr CalebM...So Rowan
Jr Abu...So Kirk
Sr Anya...Sr Freeman

Even if Barber leaves, Henderson can slide right in as the 2-guard instead of playing a two-PG lineup.

Neither DraftExpress nor NBADraft.net list Barber in their 2016 mock, fyi. Chad Ford doesn't list him among his top 60.

CDu
01-11-2016, 10:19 AM
Yep, plus -- after Gottfried misses this year's tournament, he'll be right back in next year's tournament with a Sweet 16 (at least) contender.

NCSU 2016-17

Fr Smith...Jr Henderson
Sr Barber...Jr CodyM
Jr CalebM...So Rowan
Jr Abu...So Kirk
Sr Anya...Sr Freeman

Even if Barber leaves, Henderson can slide right in as the 2-guard instead of playing a two-PG lineup.

Neither DraftExpress nor NBADraft.net list Barber in their 2016 mock, fyi.

Henderson would be a senior next year unless he decides to sit out the rest of the year and apply for (and is awarded) a medical redshirt. He may be out until February, so I guess that is a possibility, but not a given.

Also, I have to think that, if Barber keeps playing this well, Barber is going to go pro after this season. But still, a group of Smith, Henderson, Martin, Rowan, Martin, Abu, Kirk, Freeman, and Anya would be pretty darn good. And I wouldn't rule State out in getting another recruit or two to add to that mix.