MBB: Duke 103, L Beach St 81 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[BlueHeaven]

Grayson!

[uh_no]

108.3

their offense is decent....but i still expected better from our D.

anyway, they fouled a lot to stay in the game. We had some stretches of jacking threes instead of running offense.

I grow tired of these games. let's play some real ones.

[Henderson]

Just listened to the post-game radio interview with K. He was very not happy. "We won. And we have to get better. That's the bottom line." His voice quavered and almost cracked. He sounded like someone who had just survived a car wreck.

[dukelifer]

Just listened to the post-game radio interview with K. He was very not happy. "We won. And we have to get better. That's the bottom line."

yep- lots of issues. The backcourt is decent but the D is porous and not sufficiently disruptive. The ACC is a buzz saw and these young guys are going to need to step it up or it will not be pretty. We shall see.

[Bluedevil114]

Thornton played great today. Does anyone know what happened at the under 8 mark when he was on the floor. No foul was called and the announcers did not mention it as he gets up off the floor after looking like a bad fall. TV did not show it live or replay.

[jasoninchina]

This team is a work in progress as many, if not all, teams are which have multiple underclassmen in their teams' rotations. I thought Duke looked sluggish in the first half, but it seemed to have more energy in the second half. I hope this team will not have many slow starts in conference games as that may result in losses that could be avoided with better starts to games. Also, the team needs to play defense for entire games instead of select portions. Overall, I am pleased with the win.

[fuse]

Tale of two halves.

Not sure how ready we are for ACC play.

[uh_no]

Tale of two halves.

Not sure how ready we are for ACC play.

only to a degree. the defense was consistently mediocre mostly throughout.

[Troublemaker]

Way to cover the 21.5-point spread at the end, guys!

We started the game off poorly, fouling on plays we normally play very cleanly, e.g. grabbing the dribbler as he's coming around the ball screen. Overall, we've done a very good job of not fouling this season and it needs to be like that every game due to our lack of depth. Fouling like that will end up in a loss against most ACC teams.

Offensively, we allowed a poor zone to slow down our offense. In the second half, we figured out that we could just make two passes along the perimeter to reverse the ball and a drive from the wing would open up. We went to that repeatedly with Grayson, who delivered big time.

Derryck had a great game, which was good to see with Luke struggling. Derryck drove and finished, moved the ball pretty well, and had his midranger cooking. I'm not sure why all of a sudden hesitant Luke showed up again today. Catch and release, catch and release. It should be easy.

Matt had a nice defensive game, completely frustrating LBSU's leading scorer Faust.

[JNort]

We still can't seem to get back on defense. Not sure why it's happening but it should be easy to fix and it hasn't been fixed yet. I can't be the only one seeing this but we allow 6 to 10 points a game or more just to sheer laziness. Other problems defensively are how horrible the younger players are at rotating and boxing out.

The good thing is those problems are easy to fix. Practice, film study, and time is all it takes. Our guys do well at staying in front of their man but we are getting killed on screens and missed shots

[Indoor66]

Tale of two halves.

Not sure how ready we are for ACC play.

Ready or not, here it comes - on Saturday. We will be ready; we will be fine. :cool:

[Troublemaker]

Marshall's dunk (http://es.pn/1mjrQak)

Some us were wondering if he'd be able to finish coming from behind the backboard, where he's often positioned these days.

That's one way to do it!

[Bob Green]

He sounded like someone who had just survived a car wreck.

That's because he had just finished watching us attempt to play defense. :p

Seriously, we have a lot of holes which need to be filled in the coming weeks. I've zero confidence Jeter is ready to face ACC competition. Our seven man rotation will probably shrink to six barring foul trouble. Jeter played nine minutes tonight which was probably four or five too many based on production: 0 points, 1 rebound, 2 turnovers, 2 personal fouls.

On a positive note, Grayson Allen was awesome: 33 points, 5 rebounds, 6 assist.

[Saratoga2]

The second half offense looked very good with Grayson slicing through their defense or getting fouled. Not likely he can do that against ACC quality athletes. Derryck also had an excellent second half, finishing at the rim and hitting from mid range. Matt is very steady and good.

Like others, I noticed the defense just couldn't seem to cover the drive and dish resulting in a 3 or open mid range shot. Sometimes the guards were beaten and there was not a lot of help for them from inside. We really miss Amile and will be weak on defense until we can get him back. Chase was not showing any real positives either on offense or defense, and while Marshall had better stats, he was often caught between offensive players and really defending no one. He is still our best big, but I would think coach K would like him to be a defensive presence. I really don't expect better defense until Amile returns.

[Channing]

Marshall's dunk (http://es.pn/1mjrQak)

Some us were wondering if he'd be able to finish coming from behind the backboard, where he's often positioned these days.

That's one way to do it!

I remember MP2 making that play several times his senior season. Looks difficult to guard.

[lotusland]

I enjoyed watching the replay on WatchESPN especially since there were no commercials. I guess ESPN did that because it was an ACC Network broadcast. Seems like they've always had a simultaneous broadcast though. Did the rest of the country outside the blackout see the ACC Network broadcast live on ESPN? Was also weird and distracting to see the Fox Sports South logo constantly on the screen. I wonder if the single cast is a cost cutting measure by ESPN.

[gurufrisbee]

No team is perfect, but in terms of ball movement on offense, I'm having a hard time remembering a better version than this one.

[uh_no]

No team is perfect, but in terms of ball movement on offense, I'm having a hard time remembering a better version than this one.

2010. easy.

[Furniture]

I think they might be comparable to 2013-14 with Parker and Hood. I seem to remember them scoring like crazy in non conference play. After watching the Pitt v. Syracuse game tonight it reminded me of the difference between non conference and conference games. These boys better be ready to be men. Will they be like 2013-14 or 14-15?
They definitely have the talent but at times tonight I didn't feel the determination of last years team...

[mo.st.dukie]

I think they might be comparable to 2013-14 with Parker and Hood. I seem to remember them scoring like crazy in non conference play. After watching the Pitt v. Syracuse game tonight it reminded me of the difference between non conference and conference games. These boys better be ready to be men. Will they be like 2013-14 or 14-15?
They definitely have the talent but at times tonight I didn't feel the determination of last years team...

Believe it or not, there is plenty of room in between.

I don't really see the 14 comparison. First of all, we don't have a beast in the paint like Parker who was so tough for teams to stop in the paint and was really good on the boards. I do think Ingram is pretty similar to Hood but maybe a bit better on the defensive end and a better passer/point forward. Brandon seems to really do a nice job looking for his points within the flow of the offense and within the team concept. Allen/Jones vs. Sulaimon/Cook, got to go with Allen/Jones mainly because of how terrible Sulaimon was on the court and with his attitude (Quinn also had some struggles) and how explosive Allen is offensively. Jefferson was better in 14 than Plumlee is this year. Then I think Derryck/Kennard/Jeter is better than Tyler/Hairston/14 Plumlee. A big part of the problem in 14 was the backcourt. A healthy Jefferson definitely makes this team better. It's pretty obvious this group also shouldn't be compared to last year's team. I think this is a talented team that is still learning on defense and is also hampered defensively due to fewer players in the rotation. It could be a team that, if healthy, makes an Elite Eight or even Final Four run.

[Furniture]

Believe it or not, there is plenty of room in between.

I don't really see the 14 comparison. First of all, we don't have a beast in the paint like Parker who was so tough for teams to stop in the paint and was really good on the boards. I do think Ingram is pretty similar to Hood but maybe a bit better on the defensive end and a better passer/point forward. Brandon seems to really do a nice job looking for his points within the flow of the offense and within the team concept. Allen/Jones vs. Sulaimon/Cook, got to go with Allen/Jones mainly because of how terrible Sulaimon was on the court and with his attitude (Quinn also had some struggles) and how explosive Allen is offensively. Jefferson was better in 14 than Plumlee is this year. Then I think Derryck/Kennard/Jeter is better than Tyler/Hairston/14 Plumlee. A big part of the problem in 14 was the backcourt. A healthy Jefferson definitely makes this team better. It's pretty obvious this group also shouldn't be compared to last year's team. I think this is a talented team that is still learning on defense and is also hampered defensively due to fewer players in the rotation. It could be a team that, if healthy, makes an Elite Eight or even Final Four run.

I agree that there is man to man comparison. I was conjecting an overall team result basis. Fantastic offense and lots of room for improvement on D. That's how I remember the 14 team at this stage....

[Furniture]

I agree that there is man to man comparison. I was conjecting an overall team result basis. Fantastic offense and lots of room for improvement on D. That's how I remember the 14 team at this stage...

Sorry. I meant NO man to man comparison.

[Troublemaker]

I agree that there is man to man comparison. I was conjecting an overall team result basis. Fantastic offense and lots of room for improvement on D. That's how I remember the 14 team at this stage...

That's how you would've remembered the '15 team, too, at roughly the same stage (mid-Jan) after the losses against NCSU and Miami.

But yeah, I would agree there's no way this team will be as good as '15. I'm hoping for something like '98 (before Brand returned) when Amile is back.

Wojo-Langdon-Cwell-Battier-McLeod

Derryck-Allen-MJones-Ingram-Jefferson

(And it's possible Kennard will work his way into the starting lineup by that point.)

[phaedrus]

After last night's game, Grayson needs to score just 2345 points to pass JJ's scoring record (that's 24.3 points per game assuming about 36 games per year).

Duke's highest-scoring sophomore in the K era was Jason Williams, at 21.6 ppg, followed by Johnny Dawkins at 19.6 ppg. Grayson is at 20.8 ppg.

[uh_no]

After last night's game, Grayson needs to score just 2345 points to pass JJ's scoring record (that's 24.3 points per game assuming about 36 games per year).

Duke's highest-scoring sophomore in the K era was Jason Williams, at 21.6 ppg, followed by Johnny Dawkins at 19.6 ppg. Grayson is at 20.8 ppg.

Well...might as well start thinking about it!

Assuming duke has between 32 and 40 games a year, that leaves 20-27 games this year, and 84 and 107 games for grayson's career. Here's what he'd need to average:

85: 27.5
90: 26
100: 23.4
105: 22.3
(note: stopping at 105 does NOT mean that we won't win the natty for the next two years, just that maybe we only schedule 39 games)

Let's go grayson!

[kmspeaks]

Thornton played great today. Does anyone know what happened at the under 8 mark when he was on the floor. No foul was called and the announcers did not mention it as he gets up off the floor after looking like a bad fall. TV did not show it live or replay.

If it's the play I think you're talking about he got clocked by a LB guy who was trying to cut in front of him and steal the inbounds pass. I saw it developing in the corner of the screen and was surprised there was no replay since the camera cut up the court as contact was happening.

[DBFAN]

I don't think there is any reason to panic at all. First and foremost I think it is very important to recognize the great Game Thornton had. If not for foul trouble in first half he may have ended up leading in scoring. He drove with authority and no hesitation on his shots. He seemed very comfortable out there. The other thing I think is important to realize is that this is not the first time by a long shot, that a Duke team played less than stellar against the last non conference team right before conference play started. Almost as if they need the motivation before playing their first conf game on the road...

[sagegrouse]

I don't think there is any reason to panic at all. First and foremost I think it is very important to recognize the great Game Thornton had. If not for foul trouble in first half he may have ended up leading in scoring. He drove with authority and no hesitation on his shots. He seemed very comfortable out there. The other thing I think is important to realize is that this is not the first time by a long shot, that a Duke team played less than stellar against the last non conference team right before conference play started. Almost as if they need the motivation before playing their first conf game on the road...

Now, DBFAN, you have been on this board for eight years. You know there is always some reason for panic.

[Olympic Fan]

If it's the play I think you're talking about he got clocked by a LB guy who was trying to cut in front of him and steal the inbounds pass. I saw it developing in the corner of the screen and was surprised there was no replay since the camera cut up the court as contact was happening.

It was right in front of me -- Nick Faust tried to cut in front of Derryck for the steal ... instead he knocked the ball out of bounds. In the course of the play, his elbow caught Derryck in the side of the head. I'm sure it was inadvertent (the contact is what caused Faust to deflect it out of bounds), but I was surprised that it wasn't a foul.

[Kfanarmy]

No team is perfect, but in terms of ball movement on offense, I'm having a hard time remembering a better version than this one.

They are moving the ball pretty well...they seem to go more Mano y Mano when the other team has quick athletes though. Hope the D can start becoming more cohesive.

[DBFAN]

Now, DBFAN, you have been on this board for eight years. You know there is always some reason for panic.

Well yeah of course there is... That's why I spend most of my time worrying about Jeffersons foot...😎

But truthfully I have always speculated that K has his teams working on things for the next game, when they are playing a lower caliber team. No offense to Long Beach, because they prob aren't any worse than BC. But K knows this team needs all the preparation they can get with so many young guys. My theory is he doesn't allow them to blow out Long Beach, that way he can lay into them and motivate them, and help erase some of the jitters they will have on their first true road game. Just my opinion..

[COYS]

Well yeah of course there is... That's why I spend most of my time worrying about Jeffersons foot...😎

But truthfully I have always speculated that K has his teams working on things for the next game, when they are playing a lower caliber team. No offense to Long Beach, because they prob aren't any worse than BC. But K knows this team needs all the preparation they can get with so many young guys. My theory is he doesn't allow them to blow out Long Beach, that way he can lay into them and motivate them, and help erase some of the jitters they will have on their first true road game. Just my opinion..

Also, to be fair to Duke's team, it wasn't a total dumpster fire on defense like, say, Vermont during the 13-14 season. We let them get 1.08 ppp, which is right what they would be projected by KenPom to get against an average defense. Now, I totally agree with everyone that we should be better than average and should be able to stop teams like this, but they didn't destroy us the whole game. We started off poorly before putting a really good defensive shift through the last 12 minutes of the first half. We played well at times in the second half, too. The 13-14 team was atrocious on D for entire games. I think the comparisons to last year's team are more accurate. The question is whether or not we can elevate the D as last year's team did in March or whether it will remain good in bursts and mediocre the rest of the time. I'm hoping a mid February Amile return will make improving the D a little easier.

[gurufrisbee]

They are moving the ball pretty well...they seem to go more Mano y Mano when the other team has quick athletes though. Hope the D can start becoming more cohesive.

Whoever the five is out there, they are great at spacing the floor and great at moving the ball around quickly and accurately. Even when we miss shots, they usually are high quality shots because the offense is flowing so well. As a coach, I find this incredibly impressive. It's always easy to rely on a good point guard to handle the ball and make a good pass (and we've been blessed to see OFTEN with Hurley, Irving, Duhon, Amaker, Williams, etc.) or easy to watch a great post player command attention and then find open people off the double team (and we certainly saw tons of that last year). But this team has neither and they look smoother with offensive ball movement as a team than any of them because everybody is really doing great at making good, smart, quick passes all the time. I love it.

Yes we still could use improvement in other areas. I'd love to have someone who can post up. I'd love to see the defense get better. I'd love to see us better on rebounding. Probably more than anything I want Amile back. But for a team this young and this inexperienced to already look this smooth and sharp on offense is very exciting to me.

[Newton_14]

Just listened to the post-game radio interview with K. He was very not happy. "We won. And we have to get better. That's the bottom line." His voice quavered and almost cracked. He sounded like someone who had just survived a car wreck. I heard it as well. The man was highly P'O'd. Like you state, voice shaking. I felt bad for the media guy. It was super awkward.


That's because he had just finished watching us attempt to play defense. :p

Seriously, we have a lot of holes which need to be filled in the coming weeks. I've zero confidence Jeter is ready to face ACC competition. Our seven man rotation will probably shrink to six barring foul trouble. Jeter played nine minutes tonight which was probably four or five too many based on production: 0 points, 1 rebound, 2 turnovers, 2 personal fouls.

On a positive note, Grayson Allen was awesome: 33 points, 5 rebounds, 6 assist.

That was the gist of it Bob. "We won" "We scored a lot of points,... so did they" heavy heavy sarcasm and snark.

He hit on the defense, the talking/communication ("Non-Existent"), energy, etc. So in other words, more bad things than good outside of getting the win.

Offense was good, Grayson was awesome. MP3's dunk was sweet.

So on to conference play. Can the defense improve enough to slow down ACC Teams? That's the biggest question mark. I just wish I was writing about their level of play fully healthy with Amile trotting out to his normal starting slot at PF.... It stinks for Amile especially, and for the team, and for us fans. He was playing so well as a Senior.