Odell Beckham Jr. loses his mind

[Dukehky]

Odell Beckham was the worst behaved person on a field of play in any sport that I have ever witnessed today. He should be suspended, and the referees should be suspended for not ejecting him. I think his not getting ejected put the Panthers off their game and that led to the comeback. Like whoa, what is going on here. They did get caught up in his douche baggery and it almost cost us the game, almost.

In the end, we have the best player in the world, and that was enough.

CaMVP

[davekay1971]

Odell Beckham was the worst behaved person on a field of play in any sport that I have ever witnessed today. He should be suspended, and the referees should be suspended for not ejecting him. I think his not getting ejected put the Panthers off their game and that led to the comeback. Like whoa, what is going on here. They did get caught up in his douche baggery and it almost cost us the game, almost.

In the end, we have the best player in the world, and that was enough.

CaMVP

Mark Schlereth agrees with you about the refs, and on an ESPN poll almost 75% of Americans agree with you about Beckham. The helmet-to-helmet earhole hit on Norman was, by itself, grounds for a suspension. He obviously saw an opportunity for a cheap shot against Norman and took it, and it was a dangerous hit. I have no doubt he will have a 1-2 game suspension.

[killerleft]

Odell Beckham may have boxed himself into a very small corner. If the NFL is doing anything more than just pretending it is concerned about concussions and illegal hits, he may be in for much longer than a two-game suspension. This was an assault with aforethought and malice. A felony? His intentions were evident before that play. I must state that I was a 'warehouse lawyer' at a textile mill, so I should know!:o:rolleyes:

[JasonEvans]

Odell Beckham may have boxed himself into a very small corner. If the NFL is doing anything more than just pretending it is concerned about concussions and illegal hits, he may be in for much longer than a two-game suspension. This was an assault with aforethought and malice. A felony? His intentions were evident before that play. I must state that I was a 'warehouse lawyer' at a textile mill, so I should know!:o:rolleyes:

So, ESPN is saying OBJr is going to get a 1 game suspension (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14412590/odell-beckham-jr-new-york-giants-likely-suspended-nfl). This is yet another example of the league being tone-deaf. OBJr should be suspended for the remainder of the season and forced to undergo some serious anger management therapy. The league needs to come down on him HARD to send a message that using your helmet as a weapon will not be tolerated. I know the Giants are only 1 game out of the division lead, but that really should not factor into this. He must be suspended in a serious fashion.

Worth noting that Will Smith's Concussion opens this week... just in time for the NFL to take a stance on helmet-to-helmet attacks.

-Jason "But, this is the NFL so you can pretty much count on them doing the wrong thing" Evans

[JasonEvans]

OBJr has a defense! The Panthers were waving bats at him (http://deadspin.com/reports-bat-wielding-panthers-menaced-odell-beckham-jr-1749127130) in pregame warm ups.

Well, that certainly makes using your helmet as a weapon excusable. The other team was saying they were going to play tough in a game of football. How outrageous of them!

-Jason " https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/odell-beckham-cheap-shot-on-josh-norman.gif?w=1000" Evans

[Udaman]

So I have to say...(and I'm a huge Carolina fan - 2nd favorite team behind the Patriots)...that although how OBJ acted was awful...if he's getting suspended a game, so should Norman, and so should the refs.

The tone for that game was set in the first 4 minutes when Norman body slammed OBJ after a routine route that he ran. That play warranted an ejection on Nelson's part. Certainly a 15 yard penalty.

At the 1:08 clip of this, Nelson tackles OBJ, then throws him back down to the ground again. Another 15 yard penalty should have been called. Then the next highlighted play, Nelson tackles him and then strides over him sitting on him, and OBJ pulls up his foot (getting an unfair penalty, I think).

Yes, on the play where OBJ hits Nelson in the helmet that was a cheap shot, but the Panthers were playing trash talk in your face football to Beckham all day. They wanted to get him riled up. They were slinging dirty plays all over the place (and were called for several of them). Their hope was that the hot tempered Beckham would do something stupid and get tossed, and I think they would have gladly taken both Beckham and Nelson getting tossed together. That's pretty cheap, if you ask me (and again, I really like and pull for the Panthers and HATE the Giants).

It was all sad to see, and I don't think Beckham is not without fault here...but it goes around. And truthfully the refs are the most to blame. After that first tackle off the ball they should have flagged Carolina for 15 yards and said "Enough. Do this again, and one of you is getting ejected."

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000605411/Odell-Beckham-Jr-vs-Josh-Norman-highlights

[Bob Green]

So I have to say...(and I'm a huge Carolina fan - 2nd favorite team behind the Patriots)...that although how OBJ acted was awful...if he's getting suspended a game, so should Norman, and so should the refs.

I agree Norman earned a suspension along with OBJ. Both players were more interested in fighting than playing football. It was a disgraceful display of poor sportsmanship.

[Dukehky]

I agree Norman earned a suspension along with OBJ. Both players were more interested in fighting than playing football. It was a disgraceful display of poor sportsmanship.

Josh Norman did nothing to earn a suspension. Should he get fined? Yes and he will be for the unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, but to equate ANYTHING Norman did to OBJ compared to that targeting shot (which is what he will get suspended for, not for his other nonsense), is asinine.

Norman is annoying and an idiot, but at no point did he try to hurt Beckham yesterday. Also, how is grabbing someone's leg and twisting it not worse than stepping over a person to get back to the huddle?

I am a bigger Panthers homer than anyone, but Norman should under no circumstances get suspended.

[gurufrisbee]

None of them should be getting suspended. The league has established a precedent for a long time now that over the top violence, targeting players, helmet to helmet hits - all of that has the same standard penalties for it - you get flagged, you get fined, you get ejected from the game - but none of it gets you suspended.

AND....if they want to change the rules (which I'm all for, if they really are about safety, and more realistically because what they really are all about is money and they never want to risk turning anyone off), that's fine, but they can't do it mid-season. They have to announce it, specifically, in the off season.

We've already seen the world's biggest pile of horse manure about how you supposedly cannot suspend a NFL player for blatantly cheating because they hadn't specifically said they could suspend a player for blatantly cheating in that exact way. If you can't start making new precedent for cheaters, then you certainly cannot invent new precedents for someone doing stuff that already is happening a lot.

[bjornolf]

If you can't start making new precedent for cheaters, then you certainly cannot invent new precedents for someone doing stuff that already is happening a lot.

You do not see this happen a lot. I cannot think of the last time somebody did this. Maybe the Haynesworth head stomp? Maybe some of Suh's antics with the forearm to the back of a QBs head? The Miami player who removed his helmet and struck an opponent with it during a fight. There is a HUGE difference between going head to head on a player with the ball trying to bring him down or knock the ball loose and this. 90% of the time, the defender is TRYING to get his head out of the way and the ball carrier lowers his OWN head into the defender. This is targeting a player who is standing still with his back turned. This is not some bang-bang play with lots of moving parts. This is a blindside shot on a player who is the definition of defenseless. I took hits like that twice in games. Those are NOT part of the game, in my humble opinion.

For what it's worth, the Panthers have been playing this way all season. It's part of the reason they're 14-0. OBJ is just the first one to respond so... spectacularly.

And now Beckham has been suspended a game. It'll be interesting to see the union's response.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

So I have to say...(

Yes, on the play where OBJ hits Nelson in the helmet that was a cheap shot, but the Panthers were playing trash talk in your face football to Beckham all day. They wanted to get him riled up. They were slinging dirty plays all over the place (and were called for several of them). Their hope was that the hot tempered Beckham would do something stupid and get tossed, and I think they would have gladly taken both Beckham and Nelson getting tossed together. That's pretty cheap, if you ask me

That's all well and good, but "trash talk in your face football" is designed 100% to get in someone's head. OBJ allowed that.

Someone asked in earnest in one of the threads about Jah's behavior about how much verbal abuse allows you to legally punch someone - well, the answer is that it is never warranted. We are supposed to rise above trash talk.

Sticks and stones, blah blah blah, helmet spear to the head can leave you crippled.

Anyway, I know you stated that you are a Panthers fan and also wanted to see Norman tossed, but it really bugs me when people use "trash talk" as a rationale for violence.

People will say bad things about you for the rest of your life. Go prove them wrong instead of proving them right.

[duke74]

Not a Giants fan (Jets, for me), but the NY Post today noted that threatening gestures with a black baseball bat were made pre-game at OBJ, as well as homophobic slurs. Clearly if true, they hit the right buttons (for them) in the psyche-war of the NFL.

http://nypost.com/2015/12/21/panthers-taunted-odell-beckham-with-bat-before-game/

Not excusing his behavior of course, but the Panthers are not without blemish in addition to whatever on field activities occurred. OBJ just needs to grow up and let his maturity catch up to his obvious talents.

[captmojo]

This was terrible, and not about the game. It was totally uncalled for and should absolutely not be tolerated, in any fashion.
One game...the league should have been exercised a bit of hyperbole. Rather than a one-game suspension, a two-game should have been imposed, with hopes of achieving at-least a one-game through any union negotiations.
As to the performance of the referees, they did allow the players to let their steaminess escape through the first possession, then went to each head coach to provide warnings. The trouble here is that they weren't stern enough on their follow through of their warnings. This could have been better controlled and hopefully the NFL will learn from this mistake.
If the NFL is serious about aversion to player injury and the fan's bloodlust, they would do themselves a service by adopting some rules from the amateur game. For instance, the rule of a ball carrier down. Whether by contact or not, I wish a when a player is down he should be ruled down. The opponent's jumping on him in hopes of loosening the ball, much like Rocky telling Bullwinkle, "But that trick never works.", never works. It only puts that player to be subjected to a bad injury.

Adding to his 'good-guy' and possibly MVP status, maybe Cam Newton's post-game greetings to Beckham were those of a more sportsmanlike nature. He looked like he really just needed a hug. I would liked to have been a fly on one of their shoulders while that was going on.

[rthomas]

The baseball bat defense only works if it is 3rd and long and the free safety brings it out on the field.

[nocilla]

I don't know what was actually said but here is some of the pre-game taunting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1jd8KryQlg

[gurufrisbee]

You do not see this happen a lot. I cannot think of the last time somebody did this. Maybe the Haynesworth head stomp? Maybe some of Suh's antics with the forearm to the back of a QBs head? The Miami player who removed his helmet and struck an opponent with it during a fight. There is a HUGE difference between going head to head on a player with the ball trying to bring him down or knock the ball loose and this. 90% of the time, the defender is TRYING to get his head out of the way and the ball carrier lowers his OWN head into the defender. This is targeting a player who is standing still with his back turned. This is not some bang-bang play with lots of moving parts. This is a blindside shot on a player who is the definition of defenseless. I took hits like that twice in games. Those are NOT part of the game, in my humble opinion.

For what it's worth, the Panthers have been playing this way all season. It's part of the reason they're 14-0. OBJ is just the first one to respond so... spectacularly.

And now Beckham has been suspended a game. It'll be interesting to see the union's response.

I agree it should not be part of the game. I disagree and do see a lot of this happening. I have no problem with wanting to suspend players for being overly violent or dangerous, but what Beckham did is not different than what has happened a lot of times in games with no suspensions. The league can't start to change policy on one guy with no precedent - that's wrong and they've already lost trying to do that several times.

The only real difference here is that it's clear the Panthers tried to get into his head and very obviously did. The hits and the helmet to helmet targets and pushing and unnecessary violence all happens every week and guys get flagged and fined and tossed from games, but never suspended. What actually made this difference is that it was clear the Panthers trash talk/threats got to OBJ. I think it's pretty weak of the Panthers to be saying anything negative about OBJ after the fact at all - they pushed for this and they got it.

[captmojo]

Trash talk and other words have never directly been the cause of possible career-ending injuries.
Words have never caused me physical injury.

[rthomas]

Trash talk and other words have never directly been the cause of possible career-ending injuries.
Words have never caused me physical injury.

Or in other words: Trash talk doesn't kill people, people kill people.

[bjornolf]

I agree it should not be part of the game. I disagree and do see a lot of this happening. I have no problem with wanting to suspend players for being overly violent or dangerous, but what Beckham did is not different than what has happened a lot of times in games with no suspensions. The league can't start to change policy on one guy with no precedent - that's wrong and they've already lost trying to do that several times.

The only real difference here is that it's clear the Panthers tried to get into his head and very obviously did. The hits and the helmet to helmet targets and pushing and unnecessary violence all happens every week and guys get flagged and fined and tossed from games, but never suspended. What actually made this difference is that it was clear the Panthers trash talk/threats got to OBJ. I think it's pretty weak of the Panthers to be saying anything negative about OBJ after the fact at all - they pushed for this and they got it.

Ok, as a guy who played college football, there is a HUGE difference between "in the play" and "outside the play." If you go head to head during a play on a ball carrier or on a guy who you are blocking "in the course of play" who is engaged and moving himself, that gets a penalty and a fine. That is trying to make a play, and it's partly forgiven because at some point during the hit, you can't get out of the way even if you want to, and offensive players are NOTORIOUS for bringing their own head down into the blow. Plus, in that situation, the "target" is also playing football and is therefore at least somewhat expecting a blow. If you are head hunting a guy whose back or side is turned to you after the play is over or "away" from the play, that is dirty and wrong and deserves suspension. Frankly, that is assault. That is trying to put someone out of the game or even end their career. Like the hockey player who got charged a few years ago for a hit. It's the difference in basketball between catching someone with an elbow after getting a rebound and throwing an elbow or punch during a fight. Or in baseball hitting a batter up around the shoulder by accident and purposely throwing at his head. The intent matters and the situations are VERY different in my book. And let me tell you, as a guy who's taken shots to the head in both those instances, the blindside shot is WAY scarier and more painful.

By the way, Brandon Merriweather got suspended TWICE for "in the play" head to head hits on receivers in game when they had the ball as a player for the Redskins, so it's happened. The only way it's different is that OBJ would be the first OFFENSIVE player to get suspended for this. I'm sure he's not the only one ever to get suspended for an in game hit. I think Suh got suspended once too. For what it's worth, I hope the Steelers offensive lineman that did basically the same thing gets suspended too.

[Bob Green]

Josh Norman did nothing to earn a suspension. Should he get fined? Yes and he will be for the unsportsmanlike conduct penalties, but to equate ANYTHING Norman did to OBJ compared to that targeting shot (which is what he will get suspended for, not for his other nonsense), is asinine.

I disagree. Norman picked OBJ up and body slammed him into the turf. Beckham could have been seriously injured just like the Bears Jim McMahon was back in 1986, which is why Norman definitely earned a suspension. Nothing asinine about it.

[killerleft]

I disagree. Norman picked OBJ up and body slammed him into the turf. Beckham could have been seriously injured just like the Bears Jim McMahon was back in 1986, which is why Norman definitely earned a suspension. Nothing asinine about it.

I've looked and looked and I'm still looking for that body slam. If it's the play when Beckam gets a penalty for grabbing Norman by the ankle after the play, then our esteemed playmaker Jeremy Cash should have gotten at least ten or twelve ejections just this year.

[Bob Green]

I've looked and looked and I'm still looking for that body slam. If it's the play when Beckam gets a penalty for grabbing Norman by the ankle after the play, then our esteemed playmaker Jeremy Cash should have gotten at least ten or twelve ejections just this year.

http://thebiglead.com/2015/12/20/josh-norman-odell-beckham-body-slam/

The fifth play from scrimmage.

[devildeac]

I think both those nut cases are about 11.5 psi short of a full inflation.

[JasonEvans]

I think both those nut cases are about 11.5 psi short of a full inflation.

devildeac wins the thread!

[devildeac]

devildeac wins the thread!

Much appreciated, but I'm after the entire internet :o .

[killerleft]

http://thebiglead.com/2015/12/20/josh-norman-odell-beckham-body-slam/

The fifth play from scrimmage.

That was it? Poor Beckham. Got rolled down Norman's arm and left to fall to the ground. I guess Norman could have held him up in one of those flamenco moves, but didn't have a rose to put in Beckham's mouth.:) Seriously, that was one weak body slam. The play before the ankle grab was more worthy of a flag than that one.

Even more seriously, look closely. Norman just wasn't going to hold up Beckham while Beckham whined to the ref. He shed him like one would an armful of firewood. Was he supposed to gently lower him to the ground?

[captmojo]

Watching the video that Bob Green has so kindly provided here, if I watch each player in question in isolation of the other, Beckham loses his argument.
He started it.

[moonpie23]

that's not a body slam.....that's a "imma gonna let you go so you can fall down and look like an idiot"

[Bob Green]

That was it? Poor Beckham.


that's not a body slam....that's a "imma gonna let you go so you can fall down and look like an idiot"

Denial is not a river in Egypt. Josh Norman instigated the fighting and should be suspended right alongside Beckham. It takes two to tango!

[nocilla]

Denial is not a river in Egypt. Josh Norman instigated the fighting and should be suspended right alongside Beckham. It takes two to tango!

I agree. Beckham was run blocking on that play and then Norman picked him up and dropped him to the ground as Beckham was looking to the ref. Maybe he didn't actually 'slam' him down, but he didn't just let go either. Why did he pick him up in the first place? A friendly hug?

[devildeac]

Denial is not a river in Egypt. Josh Norman instigated the fighting and should be suspended right alongside Beckham. It takes two to tango!

And Foxtrot, too!

;)

[davekay1971]

http://thebiglead.com/2015/12/20/josh-norman-odell-beckham-body-slam/

The fifth play from scrimmage.

This is the point where the refs could have calmed it down by:

1) Flagging Norman for the grabbing and holding past 5 yards from the line of scrimmage (an unsportsmanlike conduct 15 yarder would have fit the bill just fine)
2) Telling both of them "We are well aware of all the hype and yapping you two have been doing leading up to this game. Keep it clean or you'll get flagged. This is your only warning. We will be watching you two closely all game."

What Norman did there is a "body slam" in the same way Laettner "viciously stomped" on Aminu Timberlake. He did, however, grab Beckham, hold him, and then do the "standing and walking over you" move that harkens back to prehistoric displays of dominance and superiority. It was an early-game attempt to get in Beckham's head. Which he did.

None of that, in any way, justifies the dangerous helmet-to-earhole shot Beckham took at Norman later in the game.

[bjornolf]

This is the point where the refs could have calmed it down by:

1) Flagging Norman for the grabbing and holding past 5 yards from the line of scrimmage (an unsportsmanlike conduct 15 yarder would have fit the bill just fine)
2) Telling both of them "We are well aware of all the hype and yapping you two have been doing leading up to this game. Keep it clean or you'll get flagged. This is your only warning. We will be watching you two closely all game."

What Norman did there is a "body slam" in the same way Laettner "viciously stomped" on Aminu Timberlake. He did, however, grab Beckham, hold him, and then do the "standing and walking over you" move that harkens back to prehistoric displays of dominance and superiority. It was an early-game attempt to get in Beckham's head. Which he did.

None of that, in any way, justifies the dangerous helmet-to-earhole shot Beckham took at Norman later in the game.

Can't throw a grabbing past five yards flag on a running play where the receiver is blocking you. Other than that, I agree. The refs should have taken control. Heck, the COACHES should have too. Apparently, the president of officiating called the booth and basically told them to tell the field refs to toss them.