MBB: Duke 99, Ga Southern 65 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game comments here.

[CDu]

Well... we went small. And it worked against Ga Southern. Not really a whole lot more to say. We destroyed a team we were expected to destroy. Glad to see the team shake off the rust. Hope we are ready Saturday.

[Saratoga2]

Duke's defense had trouble containing dribble penetration, gave up open 3's and were beaten along the back line repeatedly. That may be an ongoing theme with Amile out indefinitely as his individual defensive skills are so good and his communication skills and rebounding are really something that is not a strength with our other inside players. In the upcoming game against Utah, we will need MP3 at his best defensively as Utah has a very skilled big man.

We do have a lot of strength on our team with Brandon, Matt and Grayson all major offensive threats and good defensively. Both Derryck and Luke are quality players who need to gain experience but they give us a lot of flexibility at the guard and small forward positions. Luke's shot needs to come along soon as we can't have him taking as many if he is inefficient. Derryck could well be our starting PG based on his play tonight. Coach K just needs to figure how to keep Matt on the floor if he doesn't wind up at point.

MP3 seems to have problems with coordination and feel on offense. Nothing smooth at all about his game but he does work very hard. It's not going to change at this stage in his career, but he can give occasional dunks and put backs. Chase really has much to learn on both sides of the ball but tonight I was pleased to see he made one drop step move that showed he has much more body control than Marshall.

[CameronDuke]

Brandon Ingram is so smooth. He can really finish at the rim and his shot is super soft fur a big man. Looking forward to watching him continue to improve. The sky is the limit for his upside.

Grayson, Thornton and Matt continue to be a formidable backcourt. Would like to see Luke find his shot again. MP3 player extremely aggressively but looked to almost try too hard at times and force his moves in the post. We dominated the glass though.

Jeter looked timid but we need him to continue to get experience while Amile is out. Was good to see Obi a bucket.

I can't wait to see how we come out vs Utah at the Garden Saturday!

[uh_no]

Offense was consistently pretty good throughout.

Defense was shaky at times, especially in the first half....but buckled down and had a great second half, at least until garbage time.

Ingram continuing the upward trend, really good game from him.

decent game for derryck. the guards seem to get along very well on the floor.

Chase was ugly to watch at times. He fell 2 or 3 times, and appears to be a bit butter fingered at times. Unfortunately, he looks very lost on the defensive end....at times even losing his man without being screened. He became lost on at least one inbounds play...which does not bode well for not getting lost when the ball IS in play. He has clearly fallen behind the other freshman in terms of on the court awareness. I'm worried for ACC season if he plays like this as it seems we'll have to get some minutes for him...and if he plays like that, ACC offenses will eat him alive.

Free throws AARRRGGGHHHHHH. only luke shot as well as he probably should have. With 5 guys who can shoot the three at a good clip, we gotta be making better than 60%.

Overall, good performance, especially given the circumstances team is clearly getting better. It's a shame amile got hurt.

Should be an awesome game saturday.

[devildeac]

Luuuukke had 3 of his quality/open shots IIRC that went in and out. So damn close to a really, really good game.

[English]

Luuuukke had 3 of his quality/open shots IIRC that went in and out. So damn close to a really, really good game.

It could just be that I really want to see him find a rhythm, but Kennard seems to rim out on quality shots more than anyone else in recent memory. Hopefully he's close.

Coach K, in his presser, did mention that Luke is really performing in practice and it's just not translating to games yet. He likened Luke to last year's Grayson. Encouraging, I guess?

[Furniture]

I felt só sorry for Amile today. He was really trying to be a cheer leader for the team but the sadness on his face was impossible to hide. This team is really going to miss him for all the qualities many have already said. One thing might be underrated and I think we will miss is his crafty scoring skills under the basket. This team is severely weakened without him....

[DukieInBrasil]

It could just be that I really want to see him find a rhythm, but Kennard seems to rim out on quality shots more than anyone else in recent memory. Hopefully he's close.

Coach K, in his presser, did mention that Luke is really performing in practice and it's just not translating to games yet. He likened Luke to last year's Grayson. Encouraging, I guess?

Kennard may be practicing well, but he has shown it in a game only once. Duke needs what Thornton does more. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see Thornton get the start next time out.
Encouraging game from Ingram. Nice to see Obi have a shot go down. I guess i expected both Chase and Sean to get more run today, but experimenting with Ingram at the 4 paid off well. I expect we'll see more of that in the future.
It'd be great if Amile comes back as quickly as Boozer or Brand did, although the nature of the break hasn't been disclosed.
not much to take away from the game itself, other than we didn't get anybody injured in the game and the team found a good rhythm.

[DukeDevil]

FWIW, Brandon Ingram had both the number 2 (steal and breakaway dunk) and number 1 (dunk and 1) plays on the sportscenter top 10. Not sure I've seen one person get the top 2 plays before...

[Olympic Fan]

Breaking it down, I saw the game as a mix of good and bad. Just a note about Georgia Southern. They are very small and very young -- the youngest team in Division 1. But they do have some talent. This group will be a decent mid-major in a couple of years.

As for Duke, the good --

-- Brandon Ingram continued his breakout explosion. His third straight 20-plus point scoring effort and he raised his season high on rebounds from eight to 14. I know the competition was outmatched, but he wasn't doing this earlier against Siena or Utah State. THIS was the projected top five NBA draft pick we were hoping to see -- 26 points on 9-of-13 shooting, 14 rebounds, 2 assists, no turnovers, two blocks and a steal.

-- Grayson Allen continues to play at a very high level. 18 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists and a steal. Okay, he did miss two free throws. He hasn't had a poor game since Kentucky. He's not only leading Duke (and the ACC) in scoring, he's leading Duke in assists -- 32 (with 17 turnovers, close to a 2-to-1 ratio). And he's had 18 rebounds total in the last two games (and seven straight with at least five rebounds). I thought one of the great moments of the game was when Obi ripped down a tough offensive rebound and whipped it out to Grayson for an open 3 ... but instead of taking the shot, Allen drove and set up Obi for the easy basket -- Allen's joyful reaction was a sight to see.

-- Matt Jones continues to be a steady force.

-- I think Derryck Thornton continues to mature. Yeah, he hit 3-of-3 threes, but more importantly, I thought he made good decisions with the ball and he was trying to be more of a playmaker. He had four assists and two turnovers, but those numbers were the result of some sloppy play from our post players -- if Plumlee and Jeter had been able to handle the ball inside, Thornton could have had eight assists and no turnovers.

Which leads to the bad:

-- Marshall Plumlee was not very good. I know he had nine points and 11 rebounds, but that was against a team that played a 6-8 center and a 6-4 power forward. You had to watch the game to understand how many chances he botched inside. He had four missed shots and four turnovers, but the number of weak and awkward shots he put up was painful to watch. His awful free throw shooting from two years ago returned -- he was 1-of-5 and two of those were the first shot of a one-and-one. The only thing worse than watching Marshall in the post was --

-- Chase Jeter was TERRIBLE inside. He gets in the game early and twice in a row Thornton feeds him the ball and both times he's not alert and not ready and botches both chances. He was beaten by small players for rebounds and twice fell down on the floor. He didn't defend the baskets on drives. He got 17 minutes of action, but until the very end, when he finally made a nice move to score, he was totally ineffective. He's got a long way to go to contribute in a big time game.

-- Luke Kennard is STILL struggling with his shot. He missed his first six 3-pointers before he finally hit one with about a minute to go. He was 4-of-13 from the floor. He got the start because K said he was sharp and the team's best scorer in practice this week. But he still can't translate that into games. K compared him to Grayson early last year ... I'm sure he expects that the light will come on at some point as it did for Grayson.

-- FT shooting was bad. 19-of-32 -- 59 percent. Grayson, a 90.6 percent shooter, missed 2-of-6, Brandon was just 6-of-9. Derryck was 2 of 4. Matt was 4-of-6. Only Luke (2-of-2) didn't miss at least two free throws.

-- The 2-3 zone Duke played late (from the 11:57 TO in the second half to the end of the game) was totally ineffective. I charted it and GSU shot 11-of-21 against the zone, including 5-of-10 from 3. They had four offensive rebounds on their 10 missed shots. Maybe because the game was decided at that point, the Duke kids didn't work at it, but it was still painful to watch. Against the man, they got some easy layups, but overall, they shot 17-of-51 against the man and 4 of 12 on 3-pointers.

Overall, not sure what conclusions we can draw -- the post play was bad, but we know Marshall can play a lot better. He'll have to Saturday against the best big man in college basketball.

[dukelifer]

Kennard may be practicing well, but he has shown it in a game only once. Duke needs what Thornton does more. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see Thornton get the start next time out.
Encouraging game from Ingram. Nice to see Obi have a shot go down. I guess i expected both Chase and Sean to get more run today, but experimenting with Ingram at the 4 paid off well. I expect we'll see more of that in the future.
It'd be great if Amile comes back as quickly as Boozer or Brand did, although the nature of the break hasn't been disclosed.
not much to take away from the game itself, other than we didn't get anybody injured in the game and the team found a good rhythm.

You can see that Kennard has a great feel for the game but he is pressing and the game speed may be affecting him. It will click at some point, but not sure when. Ingram appears to have turned s corner - perhaps it will happen to Kennard in a few more games.

[MChambers]

FWIW, Brandon Ingram had both the number 2 (steal and breakaway dunk) and number 1 (dunk and 1) plays on the sportscenter top 10. Not sure I've seen one person get the top 2 plays before...
Those were awesome plays. The steal and dunk (and 1) had me yelling out loud.

[MChambers]

Matt, Grayson, and Brandon all played very well. On the other hand, the guys trying to replace Amile's minutes were disappointing. Marshall was okay, but didn't really step up. Kennard still is not hitting, although I think that will change at some point this season, and had a terrible turnover in the first half, and then didn't seem to hustle back to defend the resulting fast break. Thornton struggled to finish at the rim in the first half, but was better in the second. Jeter had a bad first half, dropping passes, missing layups, and falling down on defense. He really looks a year away, but he's going to get more time backing up Marshall. And when Brandon rests, Matt will be defending the 4, at least against smaller teams.

Did anyone hear LaPhonso Ellis say Obi's been struggling with cranky knees? I don't remember hearing that before. It could explain a lot.

[jv001]

Matt, Grayson, and Brandon all played very well. On the other hand, the guys trying to replace Amile's minutes were disappointing. Marshall was okay, but didn't really step up. Kennard still is not hitting, although I think that will change at some point this season, and had a terrible turnover in the first half, and then didn't seem to hustle back to defend the resulting fast break. Thornton struggled to finish at the rim in the first half, but was better in the second. Jeter had a bad first half, dropping passes, missing layups, and falling down on defense. He really looks a year away, but he's going to get more time backing up Marshall. And when Brandon rests, Matt will be defending the 4, at least against smaller teams.

Did anyone hear LaPhonso Ellis say Obi's been struggling with cranky knees? I don't remember hearing that before. It could explain a lot.

Yes, I heard Ellis comments on Obi having cranky knees. This could be the reason he's been labeled as not able to contribute. If Sean does have knee problems that would be reason for not performing well enough in practice to get minutes in games. GoDuke!

[DavidBenAkiva]

It could just be that I really want to see him find a rhythm, but Kennard seems to rim out on quality shots more than anyone else in recent memory. Hopefully he's close.

Coach K, in his presser, did mention that Luke is really performing in practice and it's just not translating to games yet. He likened Luke to last year's Grayson. Encouraging, I guess?

Luke never pressed or forced his shots. A lot of his looks were wide open and in the rhythm of the offense. They were often the right shots to take at the right time. They just didn't fall. With the amount of playing time he is getting and the flashes he has shown this season so far, I think the shots are going to start falling. That will be very fun.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Matt, Grayson, and Brandon all played very well. On the other hand, the guys trying to replace Amile's minutes were disappointing. Marshall was okay, but didn't really step up. Kennard still is not hitting, although I think that will change at some point this season, and had a terrible turnover in the first half, and then didn't seem to hustle back to defend the resulting fast break. Thornton struggled to finish at the rim in the first half, but was better in the second. Jeter had a bad first half, dropping passes, missing layups, and falling down on defense. He really looks a year away, but he's going to get more time backing up Marshall. And when Brandon rests, Matt will be defending the 4, at least against smaller teams.

Did anyone hear LaPhonso Ellis say Obi's been struggling with cranky knees? I don't remember hearing that before. It could explain a lot.

Yes, I heard Ellis comments on Obi having cranky knees. This could be the reason he's been labeled as not able to contribute. If Sean does have knee problems that would be reason for not performing well enough in practice to get minutes in games. GoDuke!

That was the first time I had heard of it and it explains a lot. He wears leggings, has seemingly been an active and engaged member of the team since he showed up on campus, and hasn't generated much buzz as being a difficult kid or one not willing to work. Here's hoping that he gets healthy!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Matt, Grayson, and Brandon all played very well. On the other hand, the guys trying to replace Amile's minutes were disappointing. Marshall was okay, but didn't really step up. Kennard still is not hitting, although I think that will change at some point this season, and had a terrible turnover in the first half, and then didn't seem to hustle back to defend the resulting fast break. Thornton struggled to finish at the rim in the first half, but was better in the second. Jeter had a bad first half, dropping passes, missing layups, and falling down on defense. He really looks a year away, but he's going to get more time backing up Marshall. And when Brandon rests, Matt will be defending the 4, at least against smaller teams.

Did anyone hear LaPhonso Ellis say Obi's been struggling with cranky knees? I don't remember hearing that before. It could explain a lot.

Yes, I heard Ellis comments on Obi having cranky knees. This could be the reason he's been labeled as not able to contribute. If Sean does have knee problems that would be reason for not performing well enough in practice to get minutes in games. GoDuke!

That would also explain the amazing lack of vertical on Obi's dunk. I was watching Obi carefully - hoping for signs of potential. He was all alone under the hoop, and I was so excited to see him rock the rim with that heavy frame of his... let's just say it wasn't quite that.

He's got an amazing physicality though. I can see how he's constantly moving on offense and defense and working on positioning. He may yet surprise us all. I mean, as long as his knees aren't shot.

citation: I have crappy knees, really takes the fun out of lots of things.

[Mike Corey]

The proverbial light has gone on for Mr. Ingram. Playing unlike a freshman at the moment.

His teammates and friends aren't there yet.

The season's young, and so are they.

Hard not to be excited about the direction of this group, and here's hoping healing elixir gets sprinkled on Captain Amile 24/7.

Any word on what Seth Davis is hearing, by the way? We'll know Amile is coming back soon once Mr. Davis tells us that Amile's out for the year.

[WillJ]

Always interesting to see how kids develop as the season goes on. I'm not worried at all about our guards/wings...they're really good. Without Amile, who was developing so well on offense, I was hoping to see what Jeter and Plumlee could do on offense. The jury's out on Jeter, IMO, but as for Marshall - some guys have a sense on how to score when they've got great position, and Marshall is just not one of those guys. He does a lot of things really well, but efficient scoring around the hoop is not going to be one of them.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Breaking it down, I saw the game as a mix of good and bad. Just a note about Georgia Southern. They are very small and very young -- the youngest team in Division 1. But they do have some talent. This group will be a decent mid-major in a couple of years.

As for Duke, the good --

-- Brandon Ingram continued his breakout explosion. His third straight 20-plus point scoring effort and he raised his season high on rebounds from eight to 14. I know the competition was outmatched, but he wasn't doing this earlier against Siena or Utah State. THIS was the projected top five NBA draft pick we were hoping to see -- 26 points on 9-of-13 shooting, 14 rebounds, 2 assists, no turnovers, two blocks and a steal.

-- Grayson Allen continues to play at a very high level. 18 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists and a steal. Okay, he did miss two free throws. He hasn't had a poor game since Kentucky. He's not only leading Duke (and the ACC) in scoring, he's leading Duke in assists -- 32 (with 17 turnovers, close to a 2-to-1 ratio). And he's had 18 rebounds total in the last two games (and seven straight with at least five rebounds). I thought one of the great moments of the game was when Obi ripped down a tough offensive rebound and whipped it out to Grayson for an open 3 ... but instead of taking the shot, Allen drove and set up Obi for the easy basket -- Allen's joyful reaction was a sight to see.

-- Matt Jones continues to be a steady force.

-- I think Derryck Thornton continues to mature. Yeah, he hit 3-of-3 threes, but more importantly, I thought he made good decisions with the ball and he was trying to be more of a playmaker. He had four assists and two turnovers, but those numbers were the result of some sloppy play from our post players -- if Plumlee and Jeter had been able to handle the ball inside, Thornton could have had eight assists and no turnovers.

Which leads to the bad:

-- Marshall Plumlee was not very good. I know he had nine points and 11 rebounds, but that was against a team that played a 6-8 center and a 6-4 power forward. You had to watch the game to understand how many chances he botched inside. He had four missed shots and four turnovers, but the number of weak and awkward shots he put up was painful to watch. His awful free throw shooting from two years ago returned -- he was 1-of-5 and two of those were the first shot of a one-and-one. The only thing worse than watching Marshall in the post was --

-- Chase Jeter was TERRIBLE inside. He gets in the game early and twice in a row Thornton feeds him the ball and both times he's not alert and not ready and botches both chances. He was beaten by small players for rebounds and twice fell down on the floor. He didn't defend the baskets on drives. He got 17 minutes of action, but until the very end, when he finally made a nice move to score, he was totally ineffective. He's got a long way to go to contribute in a big time game.

-- Luke Kennard is STILL struggling with his shot. He missed his first six 3-pointers before he finally hit one with about a minute to go. He was 4-of-13 from the floor. He got the start because K said he was sharp and the team's best scorer in practice this week. But he still can't translate that into games. K compared him to Grayson early last year ... I'm sure he expects that the light will come on at some point as it did for Grayson.

-- FT shooting was bad. 19-of-32 -- 59 percent. Grayson, a 90.6 percent shooter, missed 2-of-6, Brandon was just 6-of-9. Derryck was 2 of 4. Matt was 4-of-6. Only Luke (2-of-2) didn't miss at least two free throws.

-- The 2-3 zone Duke played late (from the 11:57 TO in the second half to the end of the game) was totally ineffective. I charted it and GSU shot 11-of-21 against the zone, including 5-of-10 from 3. They had four offensive rebounds on their 10 missed shots. Maybe because the game was decided at that point, the Duke kids didn't work at it, but it was still painful to watch. Against the man, they got some easy layups, but overall, they shot 17-of-51 against the man and 4 of 12 on 3-pointers.

Overall, not sure what conclusions we can draw -- the post play was bad, but we know Marshall can play a lot better. He'll have to Saturday against the best big man in college basketball.

Hard to disagree with this. But I have a few comments to add:

-Can Marshall play a lot better? A lot of his "OMG" moments were iso plays. These are the exact plays that he's been performing all season long. I'm not sure if MP3 has ever converted an iso play this season (if ever). The way that he scores is a) alley-oops, b) offensive rebounds, c) hand-offs under the basket, and d) FTs. MP3 isos are the single worst shot that any Dukie can take this year.

-The day where Ingram surpasses Allen as the #1 option may be coming sooner rather than later. Ingram was all over the place yesterday and his ability to score in a variety of ways sets him apart from Allen. Also, I know the competition was inferior, but Ingram's length was so evident yesterday. If he can apply using that length game-in and game-out, Duke's O and D will be that much more potent.

-Kennard is really reminding me of Matt Jones 2013-2014: came in with the reputation of being the best shooter in the class but hasn't lived up to it in the slightest. Kennard is shooting 26% from deep. I actually really like Kennard's game. His IQ is strong and his skillset is developing nicely. But I will not buy that Kennard is an elite shooter until he proves it on the college level.

-Yeah, this team will miss Amile :(

[wilko]

I was at a BSA meeting with my son last night. Completely forgot there was a game going on. And I'm oddly OK with that.

In seasons past I have made BBall an unhealthy obsession. Must see TV. Get too high in the good times, too low in the bad... I think we've all done it to some degree.

After the unbridled joy of last year... Its just been difficult for me to get but SO up for this years team.
I'm glad they won, and I'll continue to watch some games, or at least parts of them. But I'm taking this as an opportunity to step back and relax.

Its been a while since I've done this... 90 was the last time.
After getting lunched by 30 in the title game vs UNLV I was able to back off for most of 91.

I find the new found detachment refreshingly enjoyable. I know it will be short-lived. I am an addict.

[ChillinDuke]

Agree with most comments upstream.

One thing to add that I didn't see anyone mention, did GASU hit a TON of VERY DEEP threes? Many of them weren't really contested, but I imagine part of that was somewhat a result of not wanting to challenge such a deep three. But they seemed to make them all. I counted 3, maybe 4, maybe more that were at least 2-3 feet behind the line. Box score lists them at just over 40% from deep, so they weren't hitting at an ungodly clip, just an ungodly distance.

So I'm not surprised to see our D-Rating (KenPom) dip a bit to 46 given some of those shots fell.

- Chillin

[DukieInKansas]

One of my favorite moments last night was seeing the bench celebrate when Sean Obi scored.

[TampaDuke]

Agree with most comments upstream.

One thing to add that I didn't see anyone mention, did GASU hit a TON of VERY DEEP threes? Many of them weren't really contested, but I imagine part of that was somewhat a result of not wanting to challenge such a deep three. But they seemed to make them all. I counted 3, maybe 4, maybe more that were at least 2-3 feet behind the line. Box score lists them at just over 40% from deep, so they weren't hitting at an ungodly clip, just an ungodly distance.

So I'm not surprised to see our D-Rating (KenPom) dip a bit to 46 given some of those shots fell.

- Chillin

I also got that sense. I recall thinking to myself after 3 or 4 of those threes that we could live with them launching NBA threes, some at the end of a shot clock. I'd take that over extending the D too far and allowing the easy dribble penetration.

[Troublemaker]

Agree with others upthread. The game was great outside of MP3 and Chase playing anxious and making mistakes. We need our two big men, one a senior and one a freshman, to calm down. Stay on your feet, catch the ball, pass the ball to a teammate when passing, and put the ball in the basket when you're point blank.

Brandon with 26 and 14 at PF against a small team is exactly what we would hope for. It'll be interesting to see how he performs against Utah's Kyle Kuzma, who isn't too physically imposing at 6'9" 221-lbs but rebounds well both offensively and defensively. Brandon's not getting 14 rebounds off Kuzma, but if he has a 24 and 8 game (3 o-boards, 5 d-boards), then I'll be sated. My, my, how expectations have skyrocketed for young Brandon as he's been showing us his brilliant game.

[Billy Dat]

FWIW, Brandon Ingram had both the number 2 (steal and breakaway dunk) and number 1 (dunk and 1) plays on the sportscenter top 10. Not sure I've seen one person get the top 2 plays before...

The day where Ingram surpasses Allen as the #1 option may be coming sooner rather than later. Ingram was all over the place yesterday and his ability to score in a variety of ways sets him apart from Allen. Also, I know the competition was inferior, but Ingram's length was so evident yesterday. If he can apply using that length game-in and game-out, Duke's O and D will be that much more potent.

This is what makes Amile's injury so devastating from a team perspective, I was sure the team was ready to make a leap based on Ingram's blossoming. He is coming on like gangbusters and you can see the confidence he is playing with on both ends - no hesitation, looking to punish mismatches and put pressure on opposing defenses. He's becoming a real shot blocker, is fighting for boards, etc. Saturday is a big test, back on the MSG stage against a solid opponent (though not ranked, sad how our non-conference slate crashed and burned this year).


Always interesting to see how kids develop as the season goes on. I'm not worried at all about our guards/wings...they're really good. Without Amile, who was developing so well on offense, I was hoping to see what Jeter and Plumlee could do on offense. The jury's out on Jeter, IMO, but as for Marshall - some guys have a sense on how to score when they've got great position, and Marshall is just not one of those guys. He does a lot of things really well, but efficient scoring around the hoop is not going to be one of them.

More on Kennard in a minute, but I think we have more then enough offense with Grayson, Brandon, Derryck, Matt and Luke, including 3 point shooting. The bigs just need to play defense, rebound, set screens and get garbage points. Our offense still doesn't look smooth, but the talent is there and we'll get better at setting up and taking in-rhythm 3s, and punishing hard close outs with drive/finishes or drive/kicks. I know we'll get there. Marshall is as good as we need him to be, and Chase, with minutes, will get there. He doesn't look good right now, but I hope K bites the bullet and keeps sticking him out there because he will improve, dramatically I think. As for Luke...


Kennard may be practicing well, but he has shown it in a game only once. Duke needs what Thornton does more. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see Thornton get the start next time out.

Luke never pressed or forced his shots. A lot of his looks were wide open and in the rhythm of the offense. They were often the right shots to take at the right time. They just didn't fall. With the amount of playing time he is getting and the flashes he has shown this season so far, I think the shots are going to start falling. That will be very fun.

Whether or not Luke starts next game, I am with DavidBenAkiva on this one. Kennard took good shots and has a nice drive game. His shots are right on line and they will fall. When Matt Jones came in as a vaunted shooter, I think we all scratched our heads because he used to miss most shots badly. Rarely does Kennard miss badly. In fact, I think they are going in every time.


Duke's defense had trouble containing dribble penetration, gave up open 3's and were beaten along the back line repeatedly. That may be an ongoing theme with Amile out indefinitely as his individual defensive skills are so good and his communication skills and rebounding are really something that is not a strength with our other inside players. In the upcoming game against Utah, we will need MP3 at his best defensively as Utah has a very skilled big man.

Yeah, the defense is a work in progress now that we lost Amile. Someone upthread pointed out the insane number of NBA 3s that Georgia Southern hit. I don't blame us for not extending the pressure out that high because they were killing us on the drive. Without Amile, we went 2-3 instead of 1-3-1. We are not going to be good defensively for a while, if ever, without Amile. I think that's one we are just going to have to live with and hope that it gets incrementally better as these line-ups continue to play with each other.


Did anyone hear LaPhonso Ellis say Obi's been struggling with cranky knees? I don't remember hearing that before. It could explain a lot.

Yes, I also heard him say that Derryck was not a good effort practice player, which he must have gotten directly from the coaches. Ouch.


Yeah, this team will miss Amile :(

Oh how I miss him. That cast looked ominous, like a python was swallowing his leg.

From Wilko:
I was at a BSA meeting with my son last night. Completely forgot there was a game going on. And I'm oddly OK with that.
In seasons past I have made BBall an unhealthy obsession. Must see TV. Get too high in the good times, too low in the bad... I think we've all done it to some degree.
After the unbridled joy of last year... Its just been difficult for me to get but SO up for this years team.
I'm glad they won, and I'll continue to watch some games, or at least parts of them. But I'm taking this as an opportunity to step back and relax.
Its been a while since I've done this... 90 was the last time.
After getting lunched by 30 in the title game vs UNLV I was able to back off for most of 91.
I find the new found detachment refreshingly enjoyable. I know it will be short-lived. I am an addict

Wilko, I admire your mindfulness, we all must do what is best for each of us. However, in my estimation, this is the first of a 5 year countdown for K (I say 2020 is the end). Savor every minute brother. Feast when you can and dream when there's nothing to feast on.

With Amile's injury, we really have to take the long view. We're young but very talented and K is the maestro. We're going to take some lumps along the way, but as long as we don't go on any prolonged losing streaks and completely lose our confidence, we are going to keep getting better and be tough in March. Bring on the Utes!!!

[phaedrus]

One of my favorite moments last night was seeing the bench celebrate when Sean Obi scored.

I disagree. The bench celebration was poorly choreographed and barely looked rehearsed. We need to fix this before the ACC season starts.

[Neals384]

Hard to disagree with this. But I have a few comments to add:

-Can Marshall play a lot better? A lot of his "OMG" moments were iso plays. These are the exact plays that he's been performing all season long. I'm not sure if MP3 has ever converted an iso play this season (if ever). The way that he scores is a) alley-oops, b) offensive rebounds, c) hand-offs under the basket, and d) FTs. MP3 isos are the single worst shot that any Dukie can take this year.

-The day where Ingram surpasses Allen as the #1 option may be coming sooner rather than later. Ingram was all over the place yesterday and his ability to score in a variety of ways sets him apart from Allen. Also, I know the competition was inferior, but Ingram's length was so evident yesterday. If he can apply using that length game-in and game-out, Duke's O and D will be that much more potent.

-Kennard is really reminding me of Matt Jones 2013-2014: came in with the reputation of being the best shooter in the class but hasn't lived up to it in the slightest. Kennard is shooting 26% from deep. I actually really like Kennard's game. His IQ is strong and his skillset is developing nicely. But I will not buy that Kennard is an elite shooter until he proves it on the college level.

-Yeah, this team will miss Amile :(

Luke doesn't remind me of Matt in the least. When Matt came in, it was clear his shooting form is, well, a bit awkward. This year, he's making 45% from downtown so I don't care what they look like - but I never figured out how he was pegged as an elite shooter coming out of high school. By contast, Luke has ideal shooting form. Evey shot looks like it will go in. They just haven't so far. BillyDat nails it:


Whether or not Luke starts next game, I am with DavidBenAkiva on this one. Kennard took good shots and has a nice drive game. His shots are right on line and they will fall. When Matt Jones came in as a vaunted shooter, I think we all scratched our heads because he used to miss most shots badly. Rarely does Kennard miss badly. In fact, I think they are going in every time.

Also from BillyDat

Wilko, I admire your mindfulness, we all must do what is best for each of us. However, in my estimation, this is the first of a 5 year countdown for K (I say 2020 is the end). Savor every minute brother. Feast when you can and dream when there's nothing to feast on.


As a long time 49ers fan, always thought the great players, wins, superbowls would go on forever. Not so! This is a golden, magical era for Duke. Will it go on "post-K"? Hope so, but enjoying every moment while I can.

[Steven43]

Kennard may be practicing well, but he has shown it in a game only once. Encouraging game from Ingram.

'Encouraging' is all you could muster up for the way Brandon played last night? My gosh, from where I was sitting in Section 15 he looked like a first team All-American.

As for Luke, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I readily admit that his shot is a bit off--he mostly comes up just short--but he has played pretty well in other phases of the game, and the potential to be great is readily apparent to me. I don't think he's far away from performing in games the way Coach sees him play in practice. Dude has a ton of skills. Remember how Brandon was shooting early in the season? Now look at him. Luke will get there, and when he does, look out.

[Henderson]

One of my favorite moments last night was seeing the bench celebrate when Sean Obi scored.

I don't like it. I like fan enthusiasm for Obi, but I don't like the fact that Obi's scoring is cause for patronizing him with, "Oh how nice for you, you irrelevant bench player" cheers.

[Indoor66]

Agree with most comments upstream.

One thing to add that I didn't see anyone mention, did GASU hit a TON of VERY DEEP threes? Many of them weren't really contested, but I imagine part of that was somewhat a result of not wanting to challenge such a deep three. But they seemed to make them all. I counted 3, maybe 4, maybe more that were at least 2-3 feet behind the line. Box score lists them at just over 40% from deep, so they weren't hitting at an ungodly clip, just an ungodly distance.

So I'm not surprised to see our D-Rating (KenPom) dip a bit to 46 given some of those shots fell.

- Chillin

I always have to remind myself that our opponents practice too. They are good basketball players and we cannot defense everything all the time. Sometimes the shots go in or they make the right pass. That is not bad defense it is good offense. Perspective is often difficult for me.

[Kedsy]

By contast, Luke has ideal shooting form.

He really doesn't. Yes, it's better form that Matt's, but Luke's body isn't square when he shoots. His left shoulder is way out in front. As long as he does the same thing every time and doesn't have unnecessary motion elsewhere, it can work, and it obviously did work in high school. But it is not ideal.

My guess is that Luke is unconsciously speeding up his shooting motion, just a little bit, and that's what's causing him to miss. The college game is significantly faster than high school, especially since Luke didn't really play in a top level high school league, and the players are quicker and more athletic. It's only natural that he'd feel the need to speed up his shot, even if he doesn't realize he's doing it. This would also fit with the stories of Luke shooting well in practice, because his familiarity with his teammates might give him the comfort level to take his shot normally, at normal speed. So, again guessing, once the game "slows down" for Luke, his shot should start falling more regularly. Will it happen this season? Who knows. It seems to happen at different times for different players (and for some it never happens, though I expect that won't be the case with Luke).

[Olympic Fan]

Can Marshall play a lot better? A lot of his "OMG" moments were iso plays. These are the exact plays that he's been performing all season long. I'm not sure if MP3 has ever converted an iso play this season (if ever). The way that he scores is a) alley-oops, b) offensive rebounds, c) hand-offs under the basket, and d) FTs. MP3 isos are the single worst shot that any Dukie can take this year.


I think you nailed it. The only thing Marshall struggled with last night were the iso plays. It was frustrating because it looked like Duke was trying very hard to set him up, but time after time, he would awkwardly screw it up. Well, iso plays and free throws. But they are connected -- if he can't beat a 6-8 guy in the post and can't convert the free throws when he's fouled, then don't go to him.

I'll be surprised if he pulls that junk against Utah and Poeltl -- or more precisely I'm be surprised if Duke works to set him up for iso plays.

Other than that, Marshall is solid -- his rebounding is good (a slightly better rate than Jahlil last year) and he's blocking shots at a significantly higher rate than Jahlil did (one ever 12.4 minutes, compared to one ever 21.8 minutes). Just don't go to him for the iso play.

[devildeac]

It could just be that I really want to see him find a rhythm, but Kennard seems to rim out on quality shots more than anyone else in recent memory. Hopefully he's close.

Coach K, in his presser, did mention that Luke is really performing in practice and it's just not translating to games yet. He likened Luke to last year's Grayson. Encouraging, I guess?

He started last night, being rewarded for what we've always ASSumed/known that K rewards that practice effort with starts and/or PT. Not to diminish it either, but K doesn't have many choices at this point, unfortunately. The old GOAT has been to this rodeo at different times in his coaching career;) .

[devildeac]

Hard to disagree with this. But I have a few comments to add:

-Can Marshall play a lot better? A lot of his "OMG" moments were iso plays. These are the exact plays that he's been performing all season long. I'm not sure if MP3 has ever converted an iso play this season (if ever). The way that he scores is a) alley-oops, b) offensive rebounds, c) hand-offs under the basket, and d) FTs. MP3 isos are the single worst shot that any Dukie can take this year.

-The day where Ingram surpasses Allen as the #1 option may be coming sooner rather than later. Ingram was all over the place yesterday and his ability to score in a variety of ways sets him apart from Allen. Also, I know the competition was inferior, but Ingram's length was so evident yesterday. If he can apply using that length game-in and game-out, Duke's O and D will be that much more potent.

-Kennard is really reminding me of Matt Jones 2013-2014: came in with the reputation of being the best shooter in the class but hasn't lived up to it in the slightest. Kennard is shooting 26% from deep. I actually really like Kennard's game. His IQ is strong and his skillset is developing nicely. But I will not buy that Kennard is an elite shooter until he proves it on the college level.

-Yeah, this team will miss Amile :(

I kinda like options #1 and #1A ;) .

Gives our foes more to think/worry about.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think you nailed it. The only thing Marshall struggled with last night were the iso plays. It was frustrating because it looked like Duke was trying very hard to set him up, but time after time, he would awkwardly screw it up. Well, iso plays and free throws. But they are connected -- if he can't beat a 6-8 guy in the post and can't convert the free throws when he's fouled, then don't go to him.

I'll be surprised if he pulls that junk against Utah and Poeltl -- or more precisely I'm be surprised if Duke works to set him up for iso plays.

Other than that, Marshall is solid -- his rebounding is good (a slightly better rate than Jahlil last year) and he's blocking shots at a significantly higher rate than Jahlil did (one ever 12.4 minutes, compared to one ever 21.8 minutes). Just don't go to him for the iso play.

Yup. The beauty of Amile is that he knew his role on this team perfectly: excellent man-2-man D, excellent help D, excellent communication, excellent rebounding (and exceptional O rebounding), good post scoring, and the ultimate glue guy. The problem is that MP3 doesn't fully understand his role yet because he keeps on taking the isos, which are detrimental to the team. MP3 is a solid defender, good rebounder, opportunistic scorer, and high energy guy. If he fully buys into this, I think his value really goes up.

MP3 isn't Mason in the sense that he can score with efficiency. He can't. And MP3 doesn't have the athleticism that Miles has. But MP3 does have the height, the intelligence, and the energy that his brothers had, which is very valuable.

[elvis14]

Looking at the stats one might think that Luke had a "bad" game. I thought Luke played very well....he just didn't shoot well. Luke is doing just about everything right....except hitting shots. He's taking the right shots (how many wide open 3's did he take?). He's being aggressive without being out of control (most of the time). He's playing good defense. He 'gets it' on offense in that he improves the flow of the game on offense when he's in the game. IF he could have hit a few of those 3's last night I think there would be a good bit of discussion about how well he played. We saw it for one game and I think we are ready to see it some more!

[azzefkram]

I don't get all the MP3 negativity. He leads the team in DR%, BLK% and, somewhat surprisingly, STL%. I can't imagine much more is expected of him. For those complaining about his iso plays, he's only taken 32 shots for the year and 87% of those were dunks/lay-ups. How many bad shots could there be in there?

The things that concerned me last night were our porous perimeter D and how far Chase and Sean are from being ready.

[Olympic Fan]

Just one comment about Georgia Southern's success from the 3-point line -- I made it in my first post, but it bears repeating. Duke actually defended the 3 very well for most of the game. In the 28-plus minutes that Duke played man, Georgia Southern hit just four of 12 three-pointers.

It was only after Duke switched to the zone that GSU went off from beyond the arch -- hitting 5 of 10 3-point attempts in the final 11:58 in which we played the 2-3 zone.

[Lar77]

Just one comment about Georgia Southern's success from the 3-point line -- I made it in my first post, but it bears repeating. Duke actually defended the 3 very well for most of the game. In the 28-plus minutes that Duke played man, Georgia Southern hit just four of 12 three-pointers.

It was only after Duke switched to the zone that GSU went off from beyond the arch -- hitting 5 of 10 3-point attempts in the final 11:58 in which we played the 2-3 zone.

Towards the end they were getting unconscious. 2 or 3 were hit from way downtown and in one of those if Grayson were 1 millimeter closer, it would have been an "and 1" with the clock expiring.

Our 2-3 was woeful for letting a man free on the baseline, but I thought this was an opportunity to practice it in a competitive setting.

[oakvillebluedevil]

He really doesn't. Yes, it's better form that Matt's, but Luke's body isn't square when he shoots. His left shoulder is way out in front. As long as he does the same thing every time and doesn't have unnecessary motion elsewhere, it can work, and it obviously did work in high school. But it is not ideal.

My guess is that Luke is unconsciously speeding up his shooting motion, just a little bit, and that's what's causing him to miss. The college game is significantly faster than high school, especially since Luke didn't really play in a top level high school league, and the players are quicker and more athletic. It's only natural that he'd feel the need to speed up his shot, even if he doesn't realize he's doing it. This would also fit with the stories of Luke shooting well in practice, because his familiarity with his teammates might give him the comfort level to take his shot normally, at normal speed. So, again guessing, once the game "slows down" for Luke, his shot should start falling more regularly. Will it happen this season? Who knows. It seems to happen at different times for different players (and for some it never happens, though I expect that won't be the case with Luke).

Agreed on the speed of the game for Luke. I feel like that's been an issue - there have been a lot of shots that I'd bet high school Luke would catch and let fly in rhythm without thinking. In earlier games there were a lot of shots where he'd catch, start his motion, think about it, then take the shot. It seemed like he was shooting to shoot (because he's a 'shooter'), not shooting to score. This broke his rhythm and then had him thinking about things even more.

Last night I actually thought his shot looked much better. In the first half, the misses were all in perfect rhythm, they just didn't drop.

I'm firmly in the camp that he's going to be a fantastic shooter, and will be there until the (hopefully not at all) bitter end.

[Olympic Fan]

Agreed on the speed of the game for Luke. I feel like that's been an issue - there have been a lot of shots that I'd bet high school Luke would catch and let fly in rhythm without thinking. In earlier games there were a lot of shots where he'd catch, start his motion, think about it, then take the shot. It seemed like he was shooting to shoot (because he's a 'shooter'), not shooting to score. This broke his rhythm and then had him thinking about things even more.

Last night I actually thought his shot looked much better. In the first half, the misses were all in perfect rhythm, they just didn't drop.

I'm firmly in the camp that he's going to be a fantastic shooter, and will be there until the (hopefully not at all) bitter end.

The fact that Luke is apparently playing -- and shooting -- at a high level in practice situations (according to K) makes me think that this is all a problem that will work out. If you've ever seen a K practice, you know that the defensive pressure is every bit as strong as in any game.

Like's slow start reminds me a bit of Shane Battier's start as a shooter. He won the McDonald's 3-point competition and hit something like 6 or 7 3's in his first Blue-White game. Then he went out and shot 4-of-24 from 3 as a freshman. He was off to a bad start his sophomore year (12 of 42) when he suddenly went 4-for-4 on 3s against Maryland in Cameron. He finished the year hitting 27 of 52 the rest of the way and was well over 40 percent his last two seasons.

I expect Luke to have a similar breakout -- I just hope it doesn't take until midway next season!

(Maybe K can find that documentary about Shaolin monks)

[uh_no]

The fact that Luke is apparently playing -- and shooting -- at a high level in practice situations (according to K) makes me think that this is all a problem that will work out. If you've ever seen a K practice, you know that the defensive pressure is every bit as strong as in any game.

Like's slow start reminds me a bit of Shane Battier's start as a shooter. He won the McDonald's 3-point competition and hit something like 6 or 7 3's in his first Blue-White game. Then he went out and shot 4-of-24 from 3 as a freshman. He was off to a bad start his sophomore year (12 of 42) when he suddenly went 4-for-4 on 3s against Maryland in Cameron. He finished the year hitting 27 of 52 the rest of the way and was well over 40 percent his last two seasons.

I expect Luke to have a similar breakout -- I just hope it doesn't take until midway next season!

(Maybe K can find that documentary about Shaolin monks)

Small sample size!

Lets suppose luke is a 40% shooter. How often should we expect him to have an 11/43 or worse stretch?

I tried to do this in excel...but it's apparently not precise enough....ugh silly excel.

fortunately there are binomial CDF calculators online: http://www.danielsoper.com/statcalc3/calc.aspx?id=70

so for a 40% shooter, he has a 11/43 or worse stretch ~3.5% of the time, or once out of every 30 times.

This falls off super quickly too:

40% - .035 - 1/28
39% - .046 - 1/21
38% - .061 - 1/16
37% - .079 - 1/12
36% - .1 - 1/10
35% - .13 - 1/7

So if we take a rough number of 700 3pta in a career, that gives roughly 16 43-shot stretches. Or more practically, a 38% 3 point shooter will have on average ONE stretch of 11/43 or worse over his entire career (note: it's actually a bit higher than that because we can shift the window over the 43-shot boundaries).

Even a 40% shooter will more likely than not have such a stretch in their career.

To get a confidence interval on his actual percentage based on his 11/43 performance, you'd have to run a T test or something...but i'm a long way from statistics...either way...he's having a down stretch, and no I'm not worried. It happens to almost every shooter once in their career.

[ChillinDuke]

Just one comment about Georgia Southern's success from the 3-point line -- I made it in my first post, but it bears repeating. Duke actually defended the 3 very well for most of the game. In the 28-plus minutes that Duke played man, Georgia Southern hit just four of 12 three-pointers.

It was only after Duke switched to the zone that GSU went off from beyond the arch -- hitting 5 of 10 3-point attempts in the final 11:58 in which we played the 2-3 zone.

The bolded part doesn't tell the entire story.

I flipped through the condensed game replay on GoDuke.com. During the final 11:58, check out the threes they made at:

1) 8:24 to play
2) 7:47
3) 4:10
4) 3:45

Those are ridiculous. Impressive. And ridiculous.

Then check out the first half too:

5) 18:51 to play
6) 12:20

All 6 of those are crazy shots. Hard to know whether Duke didn't do a good job closing out or simply didn't want to close out on shots that far away from the basket.

But to clarify your above point (bolded), 4 of the 5 shots they hit in the final 11:58 were nutzo. So yes, they "went off." But they also went out. Far out. So I'm not sure classifying the last 11:58 as somehow worse 3-pt defense than the first 28-plus minutes is fair without that context.

- Chillin

ETA: it appears others sort of beat me to my point. That's what I get for not pressing Submit for a half hour.

[uh_no]

The bolded part doesn't tell the entire story.

I flipped through the condensed game replay on GoDuke.com. During the final 11:58, check out the threes they made at:

1) 8:24 to play
2) 7:47
3) 4:10
4) 3:45

Those are ridiculous. Impressive. And ridiculous.

Then check out the first half too:

5) 18:51 to play
6) 12:20

All 6 of those are crazy shots. Hard to know whether Duke didn't do a good job closing out or simply didn't want to close out on shots that far away from the basket.

But to clarify your above point (bolded), 4 of the 5 shots they hit in the final 11:58 were nutzo. So yes, they "went off." But they also went out. Far out. So I'm not sure classifying the last 11:58 as somehow worse 3-pt defense than the first 28-plus minutes is fair without that context.

- Chillin

ETA: it appears others sort of beat me to my point. That's what I get for not pressing Submit for a half hour.


Unfortunately that stretch killed our defensive efficiency for the game :(
things you wouldn't know by ONLY looking at the raw stats....and why I detest the "stats vs eye test" arguments

[CDu]

He really doesn't. Yes, it's better form that Matt's, but Luke's body isn't square when he shoots. His left shoulder is way out in front. As long as he does the same thing every time and doesn't have unnecessary motion elsewhere, it can work, and it obviously did work in high school. But it is not ideal.

My guess is that Luke is unconsciously speeding up his shooting motion, just a little bit, and that's what's causing him to miss. The college game is significantly faster than high school, especially since Luke didn't really play in a top level high school league, and the players are quicker and more athletic. It's only natural that he'd feel the need to speed up his shot, even if he doesn't realize he's doing it. This would also fit with the stories of Luke shooting well in practice, because his familiarity with his teammates might give him the comfort level to take his shot normally, at normal speed. So, again guessing, once the game "slows down" for Luke, his shot should start falling more regularly. Will it happen this season? Who knows. It seems to happen at different times for different players (and for some it never happens, though I expect that won't be the case with Luke).

First, there is no such thing as one type of ideal form. Ideal form is dependent on the individual. Steph Curry, Peja Stojakovic, and Reggie Miller all were terrific shooters, and none have what one would define as "ideal" shooting form (unlike, say JJ). All that matters is (a) you have a form that works, and that (b) your form is repeatable. Nothing about Luke's form looks problematic.

Further, I don't think it is an issue of needing the game to slow down for him. That is an often used explanation for frosh, but I don't think it applies to Kennard. He isn't rushing shots, nor is he taking bad shots. He isn't making bad decisions. Heck, he is showing a great deal of poise and savvy in getting good looks off the dribble, and is shooting over 50% on 2s. The 3pt shots just are not falling. And many are right online but rattling out. They generally aren't bad misses.

I don't have a good explanation for the misses other than just bad luck. He still hasn't taken THAT many attempts. With 4 more makes he would be at over 33%, and 6 more would put him at 38.6%, so it may just be a cold stretch early in the season, and we just haven't seen enough shots to see his true ability.

[ChillinDuke]

Unfortunately that stretch killed our defensive efficiency for the game :(
things you wouldn't know by ONLY looking at the raw stats...and why I detest the "stats vs eye test" arguments

This makes complete sense, and you're absolutely right.

It's why I don't stress seeing Duke at #46 in defensive efficiency. We dropped ~6 slots after yesterday. But if they go only 2-6 on those NBA range bombs, maybe we rise 6 slots? You get my point.

- Chillin

[Henderson]

All this talk of "eye tests" and "raw stats" makes me want to rub my eyes. And they say that's the worst thing you could do.

That said, Brandon Ingram is an unusual basketball talent. He and Grayson are capable of taking over this team. You put those two guys on the court, and you have serious problems on our offensive end. But Grayson and Brandon need one more guy. Matt Jones is solid and dependable. But he's not that guy.

I thought Coach K's post game presser last night made clear that he thinks/expects/wants Luke to be that guy.

Matt? Chase? MP3? Derryck? Can you be that guy?

Who's that guy?

[Billy Dat]

All this talk of "eye tests" and "raw stats" makes me want to rub my eyes. And they say that's the worst thing you could do.

That said, Brandon Ingram is an unusual basketball talent. He and Grayson are capable of taking over this team. You put those two guys on the court, and you have serious problems on our offensive end. But Grayson and Brandon need one more guy. Matt Jones is solid and dependable. But he's not that guy.

I thought Coach K's post game presser last night made clear that he thinks/expects/wants Luke to be that guy.

Matt? Chase? MP3? Derryck? Can you be that guy?

Who's that guy?

I get what you are trying to say, but I honestly think it's a collection of guys because we have a lot of shooting on the court. Aside from Grayson and Brandon, I think Matt, Derryck and Luke are all legit 3 point threats, and Luke and Derryck are also good at driving. While Matt isn't great at driving, he's pretty good at it and crafty as heck and really knows how to pick his spots, especially when he doesn't have to run the point. Little by little, they are getting a feel for how to play off each other. My only worry about the offense are the possessions we just lost because Amile isn't out there crashing the offensive glass. A small ball line-up of Brandon, Grayson, Matt, Luke and Derryck would be fun to watch on one end - likely death on the other - but fun to watch. That's why the Amile small ball line-ups were fixing to be so potentially lethal.

[Henderson]

I get what you are trying to say, but I honestly think it's a collection of guys because we have a lot of shooting on the court. Aside from Grayson and Brandon, I think Matt, Derryck and Luke are all legit 3 point threats, and Luke and Derryck are also good at driving. While Matt isn't great at driving, he's pretty good at it and crafty as heck and really knows how to pick his spots, especially when he doesn't have to run the point. Little by little, they are getting a feel for how to play off each other. My only worry about the offense are the possessions we just lost because Amile isn't out there crashing the offensive glass. A small ball line-up of Brandon, Grayson, Matt, Luke and Derryck would be fun to watch on one end - likely death on the other - but fun to watch. That's why the Amile small ball line-ups were fixing to be so potentially lethal.

I don't disagree with any of that. Good points.

But great teams aren't built on such nuances and collections. They need throttle. They need That Guy. And more than one. You can win a lot of games by being pretty solid, but you can't win it all that way. We've got Grayson, and holy cow do we have Brandon.

I'm asking who's going to to step up and be (with Allen and Ingram) That Guy. This year. It can't be a committee of "pretty good." It has to be a guy who takes charge and says, "I'm That Guy."

So who's That Guy?

Luke?

[gep]

I say Derryck... :cool:

[DukieInKansas]

I disagree. The bench celebration was poorly choreographed and barely looked rehearsed. We need to fix this before the ACC season starts.

They just need to watch more Monmouth highlights. Recreating the Sistine Chapel would have worked, I think.

[Furniture]

I think both Derryck and Luke are now the 'growers' of the team that will break out shortly. I predict that it's just s matter of time before Luke is getting some 20+ games. Derryck however will be in the 10 to 20 range.
In regards Derryck his body language is really good now. Much better than earlier in the season. He's clearly gaining confidence. I really love his energy on D.

[elvis14]

All this talk of "eye tests" and "raw stats" makes me want to rub my eyes. And they say that's the worst thing you could do.

That said, Brandon Ingram is an unusual basketball talent. He and Grayson are capable of taking over this team. You put those two guys on the court, and you have serious problems on our offensive end. But Grayson and Brandon need one more guy. Matt Jones is solid and dependable. But he's not that guy.

I thought Coach K's post game presser last night made clear that he thinks/expects/wants Luke to be that guy.

Matt? Chase? MP3? Derryck? Can you be that guy?

Who's that guy?

I think Luke is going to get the first shot to be 'that guy'. He played great but shot poorly the other night. Derryck will also have a shot to be 'that guy' or it might be that one of these 2 generally steps up so it's collectively both. Matt, Chase, MP3, etc. they can't be 'that guy'. It's not they aren't great. They all have a role to play and when they play their role well it's fantastic (especially Matt and MP3...Chase is TBD).

I think Luke is more ready to be 'that guy' right now (which is why he started last game and will get the first shot) but Derryck growing into the PG role may prove to be VERY important for this team. So Luke may get the first shot but I could see Derryck stepping up later in the season.

[English]

I think Luke is more ready to be 'that guy' right now (which is why he started last game and will get the first shot) but Derryck growing into the PG role may prove to be VERY important for this team. So Luke may get the first shot but I could see Derryck stepping up later in the season.

I agree that Luke is more ready to be 'that guy,' but MOST IMPORTANTLY, it seems that Coach K agrees that Luke is more ready. To my eye, at least, Luke has the absolute green light to fire 3-pt whenever he spots an opening. Despite his low 3FGM percentage so far, his 3FGA numbers haven't seemed to dip, and he's not getting pulled from the game for them. Like LaPhonso Ellis during the GASO game, I thought after the 0-for-4 or 0-for-5 start, Luke found some opportunities to put the ball through the hoop inside the arc and that would get him into a rhythm. He missed 1-2 more 3's after that, however.

I've been among those mentioning that the shots he's been taking come within the flow of the game and aren't forced, and like most here, I'm eager to see more drop. I'm very optimistic that the 3FGM numbers will rise for Luke. Further, I think if Luke starts looking for opportunities to drive and/or pull up for mid-range jumpers, we'll start seeing a more complete offensive game from him and that may have a positive impact on his 3FGs.

All that to say, Coach K seems to have a ton of faith in Luke's game. I certainly do.

Edit: I also agree that Derryck is hugely important to this team as a distributor and attacker. His confidence appears to be growing each week, and he's a fun player to watch. I think, in the end, while Luke may be needed more as a consistent scorer, Derryck will ultimately be more important for the team as the player who initiates offense, gets the guys around him going, and gets his offense in the flow of the game. I anticipate that Luke will average more PPG, but Derryck will be responsible for more PPG.

[sagegrouse]

I agree that Luke is more ready to be 'that guy,' but MOST IMPORTANTLY, it seems that Coach K agrees that Luke is more ready.
I see the current Duke roster as having five guys on the wing and at guard who are both shooters and scorers. It's more like an NBA roster with different guys being hot in different games.

[Indoor66]

I re-watched the game a little while ago and paid particular attention to Chase. It appears to me that he is closer to ready than some here think. He needs for one more light bulb to go off and, IMO, he will be a real contributor.