Amile Jefferson will not play again in 2015-16 season, seeks medical hardship

[Billy Dat]

WHY?????????????????

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN 40s40 seconds ago
Duke senior forward Amile Jefferson has sustained a right foot injury and will be out indefinitely, school announces.

[hallcity]

Better now than a month from now.

[OldPhiKap]

WHY?????????????????

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN 40s40 seconds ago
Duke senior forward Amile Jefferson has sustained a right foot injury and will be out indefinitely, school announces.

Crank up the vigil.

Hope for a full and quick recovery. Chase, Vrank and Sean, time to step up.

[TKG]

Next man up. Is that Chase?

[devildeac]

WHY?????????????????

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN 40s40 seconds ago
Duke senior forward Amile Jefferson has sustained a right foot injury and will be out indefinitely, school announces.

It's over.

Damn Nike shoes/floors.

Start the vigil!

[Ultrarunner]

WHY?????????????????

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN 40s40 seconds ago
Duke senior forward Amile Jefferson has sustained a right foot injury and will be out indefinitely, school announces.

I'm thinking all sorts of bad words right now. Hurry back (100% healthy, though,) Amile!

Paging Mr. Jeter. We have an OJT opportunity for you.

[mattman91]

WHY?????????????????

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN 40s40 seconds ago
Duke senior forward Amile Jefferson has sustained a right foot injury and will be out indefinitely, school announces.

Not good. I actually think he is our most valuable player this year. Hopefully it's just a minor sprain.

Time for Chase (Obi?!) to step up.

[Billy Dat]

Better now than a month from now.

First things first, I feel terrible for Amile. He is killing it this year and is our heart and soul. Man, this stinks.

Assuming he can get back on the court this year, you're right. We have to take the long view and hope this jump starts the development of Jeter. All of the Sean Obi fanboys/girls, is this what you wanted?!?!?(kidding!)

The Duke foot curse claims another.

[Bob Green]

Get well soon, Amile Jefferson! I really, really dislike the Injury Bug. Amile Jefferson has worked so hard at Duke and senior year should be his time to shine so this is just a punch in the gut to him. Seems unfair but we all know life is unfair. I don't want to overreact before details are made available; however, reading this news makes me sad.

[weezie]

Awww gawwwd terrible news! Heal Amile heal!

[mattman91]

First things first, I feel terrible for Amile. He is killing it this year and is our heart and soul. Man, this stinks.

Assuming he can get back on the court this year, you're right. We have to take the long view and hope this jump starts the development of Jeter. All of the Sean Obi fanboys/girls, is this what you wanted?!?!?(kidding!)

The Duke foot curse claims another.

Man reading that made me quiver. I sure hope more details come out soon.

[Billy Dat]

Laura Keeley ‏@laurakeeley 38s39 seconds ago
Amile Jefferson's foot injury will likely be one of those wait-and-see, no timetable types. So just like Ryan Kelly's and Kyrie's

Laura Keeley ‏@laurakeeley 47s48 seconds ago
Not that that will stop people from asking when Jefferson will be back multiple times a day

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2015/12/14/dukes-amile-jefferson-out-indefinitely-with-right-foot-injury/
“This injury is unfortunate, to say the least, but Amile is strong in both person and character,” Duke head coach Mike Krzyzewski said. “He will continue to be an integral part of this team, and we will support him fully as he rehabs this foot injury.”

[devildeac]

I'm thinking all sorts of bad words right now. Hurry back (100% healthy, though,) Amile!

Paging Mr. Jeter. We have an OJT opportunity for you.

Did you know you can receive technical fouls and/or infractions for thinking bad words, just like Jimmy V did? :rolleyes:

[duke blue brewcrew]

I feel badly for Amile, no one wants to be hurt their Sr. year. He's such a big contributor and will be sorely missed until his return. Heal quickly Amile!

[devildeac]

Awww gawwwd terrible news! Heal Amile heal!

Amile? Heal? Never!!!

Recover/recuperate/mend/rehabilitate/return perhaps but never heal :rolleyes:.

[dukelifer]

Not good. I actually think he is our most valuable player this year. Hopefully it's just a minor sprain.

Time for Chase (Obi?!) to step up.

Both likely

[dukelifer]

Meeks out for UNC

[kAzE]

Damn . . . get well soon, Amile. This young team just got a lot younger.

Looks like Brandon is gonna be playing a lot more at the 4, and Marshall/Chase are gonna play as many minutes as they can handle. Wouldn't be surprised to see Obi and/or Vrank get a few minutes in the next couple of games to get some seasoning as well.

[Billy Dat]

Both likely

JG @jgoges
@laurakeeley any chance more minutes will come Obi's way?

@laurakeeley 3m3 minutes ago
Nope

[fuse]

In the I'm much less clever than I think department:

New Crazie Cheer:

Heal, Amile (pointing to Amile)

Which can evolve against the cheaters to:

Heel (point to a cheater) follower by Amile (point to Amile)

I may only amuse myself, but somedays that is all that matters.

Wishing all the best to Amile.
His play to date has been spectacular.

[Billy Dat]

Damn . . . get well soon, Amile.

Looks like Brandon is gonna be playing a lot more at the 4, and Marshall/Chase are gonna play as many minutes as they can handle. Wouldn't be surprised to see Obi and/or Vrank get a few minutes in the next couple of games to get some seasoning as well.

Laura Keeley ‏@laurakeeley 4m4 minutes ago
I would guess that Derryck Thornton moves into the starting lineup and Duke plays Ingram at the 4. Jones, Allen and Plumlee other starters

[flyingdutchdevil]

Amile is my unofficial favorite player on this team. He is so valuable to this team.

Here's to a speedy recovery and I hope he's mentally and physically prepared to go through whatever it is he needs to go through.

[JasonEvans]

Meeks out for UNC

2 weeks with a bruised knee.

I would be elated if this was the same case with Amile. From what I am hearing, it is not...

[dukelifer]

JG @jgoges
@laurakeeley any chance more minutes will come Obi's way?

@laurakeeley 3m3 minutes ago
Nope

Starter no but someone has to rebound. Not sure Plumlee can play 35 minutes

[kAzE]

The entire team, and especially Marshall, will need to really step it up on the defensive glass now.

Anxious to learn more details about the injury . . . surgery or no?

Either way, this SUCKS.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Good luck with the foot rehab, Amile!
You'll be well rested for the championship run in the spring!

[DukieInKansas]

Good luck with the foot rehab, Amile!
You'll be well rested for the championship run in the spring!

This - and he's a doctor, so he should have the inside info. ;)

Foot recuperating vibes to Amile!

[flyingdutchdevil]

The entire team, and especially Marshall, will need to really step it up on the defensive glass now.

Anxious to learn more details about the injury . . . surgery or no?

This SUCKS.

Ugh. "Out indefinitely" is awful for everyone involved, and most of all Amile. To me, it means no major structural damage to a major bone (ie broken foot or broken leg. If it was, I'd think Duke would disclose the severity right away) but more like a tear or an awful sprain that a) doesn't necessitate surgery, b) is incredibly painful, c) can either heal quickly or slowly.

I hope Amile recovers quickly.

[Devilwin]

Amile Jefferson has been ruled out indefinitely with an undisclosed foot injury. More to come later on this.:(

[jacone21]

K's comment makes it sounds pretty bad. Hopefully, I'm just being my typical pessimistic self in my interpretation. Amile's leadership and performance this year can't be replaced. Big loss.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Dear BioMedical Engineers at Pratt,

Given that Duke players and foot injuries are pretty common place, can you please clone the feet of every Duke basketball player once they step foot on campus (pun intended)?

And don't tell me it doesn't work like that! Look at what Frankenstein did with his monster!

[Troublemaker]

I feel horrible for Amile, one of my faves, and who was having an incredible senior season so far. He's probably been our 2nd-best overall player behind Grayson.

I really don't like that word "indefinitely." We've gone through these "indefinite" injuries before, and for my sanity, I'm just going to assume he's out for the season. If he happens to make it back by the NCAAT like Kyrie or the end of the regular season like Ryan, then so be it. But I can't be checking twitter all the time or pestering insiders for updates.

In any case, get well soon, Captain!

[NYBri]

Very frustrating that we have no details. Not liking the tone of this at all. Hate the word, "indefinitely," when it comes to injuries.

Can't help it. Having a Kyrie flashback.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Very frustrating that we have no details. Not liking the tone of this at all. Hate the word, "indefinitely," when it comes to injuries.

Can't help it. Having a Kyrie flashback.

I completely agree with you. If there is a silver lining, it's that it is only December 14. That gives Amile - at best - 3 months to recover. A pretty good amount of time for most - but not all - sports injuries.

[Troublemaker]

Laura Keeley ‏@laurakeeley 4m4 minutes ago
I would guess that Derryck Thornton moves into the starting lineup and Duke plays Ingram at the 4. Jones, Allen and Plumlee other starters

Yep, this is what I expect. Luke plays all the backup minutes for the 3 perimeter positions. Chase now has a big role as the first big off the bench. Maybe Vrank/Obi will pitch in, but I can envision Coach K going "Seven is Sufficient."


The entire team, and especially Marshall, will need to really step it up on the defensive glass now.

Yes, first and foremost, it has to be Marshall that steps up the most. He's now the sole experienced big man who can bark communications from the backline and the sole senior captain and the sole big man with a developed, physical body. He has to come through on the boards, rim-protect, and stay out of foul trouble. And he has to do it effectively for 30mpg.

[mattman91]

Can't wait to see Amile have an epic comeback like the White Raven had.

[Philadukie]

K's comment makes it sounds pretty bad. Hopefully, I'm just being my typical pessimistic self in my interpretation. Amile's leadership and performance this year can't be replaced. Big loss.

I agree with you. Given the program's history in how these announcements are handled, I think this means it was a pretty major injury. Not something he'll likely be back from in a few weeks, I imagine.

[cspan37421]

This is why it's important to have a deep team. But it'll hurt - he's become a great player, a rebounding machine. Incidentally, he's always been a great interview.

[mattman91]

Looking at our schedule, other than Utah, we don't have a tough game until 01/16 vs Notre Dame. Does anyone remember how long Ryan Kelly was out with his foot injury?

[tbyers11]

Looking at our schedule, other than Utah, we don't have a tough game until 01/16 vs Notre Dame. Does anyone remember how long Ryan Kelly was out with his foot injury?

Ryan ~7 weeks
Elton ~ 8 weeks
Carlos ~ 3 weeks
Kyrie ~14 weeks

With no idea what Amile's actual injury is we don't even have a rough time table for return. I like your White Ravenesque return against Miami mentioned earlier because that would be only 6 weeks (which is probably the absolute best case scenario). I'd take 8 weeks against Louisville as his return and tune-up before the UVa and UNC games as well.

Anyway, best of luck to Amile in rehab. Really sucks that it had to happen to a great player and leader in his senior season.

[uh_no]

Looking at our schedule, other than Utah, we don't have a tough game until 01/16 vs Notre Dame. Does anyone remember how long Ryan Kelly was out with his foot injury?

not sure when he went out, but i sure as heck remember his first game back.

[fuse]

Dear BioMedical Engineers at Pratt,

Given that Duke players and foot injuries are pretty common place, can you please clone the feet of every Duke basketball player once they step foot on campus (pun intended)?

And don't tell me it doesn't work like that! Look at what Frankenstein did with his monster!

Had this been an elective when I studied BME, that would have been pretty awesome.

[OZ]

I really hate it for Amile. No one has worked harder to get where he is today as a player and as a leader. I really hope he gets back soon because he deserves it.

[SCMatt33]

not sure when he went out, but i sure as heck remember his first game back.

Too bad that game proved to be the exception rather than the rule for him coming back. I'll reserve any optimistic or pessimistic hopes on the injury itself. I remember being at the butler game when Kyrie got hurt and thinking, at least it's only December. Not so much on that one. I also remember last year when half the team rolled their ankles at one point or another and they missed one game combined, so the luck definitely rolls both ways.

I'll be real interested to see the lineups. I'd have to imagine that Brandon is at the 4 most of the time now. I'll be more interested in seeing how much the coaches try to play Marshall 35 minutes or if they try to play Chase 10-15. If they go for Marshall playing 35, you wonder if they have enough confidence in Chase to play him in the event that Marshall fouls out, or if they'll actually try to play 4 guards and Ingram at the 5. It wouldn't be unprecedented as I seem to remember a few times where Jabari played the 5 when Jefferson fouled out in 2014 if I'm not mistaken. Granted, Jabari had more bulk as a frosh than Brandon, but Coach K has always been a best 5 guys kind of coach so you never know.

[Troublemaker]

If it turns out to be season-ending, he'll be able to medical redshirt: http://informedathlete.com/medical-hardship-waivers/


NCAA Division I – An athlete must not have participated in more than three contests or 30 percent of their season schedule (whichever is greater) and not after the halfway point of the season (based on the number of contests rather than a particular date).

Duke will play 31 games in just the regular season. 9 / 31 = 29%

[devildeac]

In the I'm much less clever than I think department:

New Crazie Cheer:

Heal, Amile (pointing to Amile)

Which can evolve against the cheaters to:

Heel (point to a cheater) follower by Amile (point to Amile)

I may only amuse myself, but somedays that is all that matters.

Wishing all the best to Amile.
His play to date has been spectacular.

Please take you hands away from the keyboard. Slowly. Now you are cordially invited to join us here for the remainder of the evening (one finger, one click):

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?3840-Ymm-Beer

[OZZIE4DUKE]

5th metatarsal? Turf toe? Achilles heal? We'll know when they want us to know. Personally I'm optoemistic it's not KyrieToe.

Get well soon, Amile.

[Pghdukie]

Tuesday game could give us a better indication of the severity. Will AJ be in a cast,walking boot,crutches, walker, etc. This clue MAY give us a better sign of time off.

[Olympic Fan]

Looking at our schedule, other than Utah, we don't have a tough game until 01/16 vs Notre Dame. Does anyone remember how long Ryan Kelly was out with his foot injury?

I don't agree with your prognosis of our schedule.

Allow me to quote Pomeroy's evaluation of the upcoming games.

He gives Duke a 78 percent chance to beat Utah Saturday.

On Jan. 6, we play at Wake -- a tough place for recent Duke teams to play -- and have a 77 percent chance to win -- almost exactly the same as the neutral court Utah game.

On Jan. 13, we play Clemson in Greenville, SC, and have a 73 percent chance -- lower than vs. Utah

On Jan. 16, we pay Notre Dame in Cameron and have a 79 percent chance.

On Jan. 23, we play at NC State -- another tough place for recent Duke teams -- and have a 72 percent chance

On. Jan 25, we play at Miami and have a 45 percent chance -- it's one of three remaining games where we're not favored by Pomeroy.

The point is that the toughest games in this stretch (before the back-to-back road games at State and Miami) are at Wake and at Clemson -- even more than vs. Utah and Notre Dame. The other games in this stretch are all much more likely wins -- Georgia Southern, Elon, Long Beach State, Virginia Tech and Syracuse at home and at Boston College ... I understand that Duke is favored in all these games (at least until Miami), but not all of them are gimmies -- especially with Amile out.

[arnie]

5th metatarsal? Turf toe? Achilles heal? We'll know when they want us to know. Personally I'm optoemistic it's not KyrieToe.

Get well soon, Amile.

Just heard the report and worried it might be the 5th metatarsal plague that falls over us. But reading this thread made me realize that injury might be better - at least it heals in reasonable timeframe.

[Troublemaker]

The point is that the toughest games in this stretch (before the back-to-back road games at State and Miami) are at Wake and at Clemson -- even more than vs. Utah and Notre Dame. The other games in this stretch are all much more likely wins -- Georgia Southern, Elon, Long Beach State, Virginia Tech and Syracuse at home and at Boston College ... I understand that Duke is favored in all these games (at least until Miami), but not all of them are gimmies -- especially with Amile out.

Yep, can't take for granted any ACC road game. I'm thinking that game at Wake will especially be a bear. The Deacs beat UCLA and Indiana on a neutral court in Maui, and they'll want revenge for the epic beatdown Duke put on them in Cameron last season.

[devildeac]

Here's my (wild) guess:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisfranc_injury

Get well soon, big fella!!!!

[Saratoga2]

For Amile personally this has to be a frustrating setback as he has blossomed into one of our top players through his hard work and dedication.

For the team it is a major blow. I believe Amile is one of the two most difficult guys to replace in the lineup. His defense and rebounding and his strength yet good quickness are special. Brandon is the other of my two most difficult guys to replace and he may just be called upon to play at the 4 now. Hoping Marshall can expand his role is probably overly optimistic and Chase is still very much a learner.

Every time we do a phase report Physical Health comes first and this is a reminder of why.

[SCMatt33]

If it turns out to be season-ending, he'll be able to medical redshirt: http://informedathlete.com/medical-hardship-waivers/



Duke will play 31 games in just the regular season. 9 / 31 = 29%

So this rule turns out to be a bit more complex than I thought, but the TL;DR is that Amile should qualify for a medical redshirt if it's necessary (crossing my fingers that it's not). The full text of the 30% rule is below:


In team sports, the injury or illness occurs when the student-athlete has not participated in more than three contests or dates of competition (whichever is applicable to that sport) or 30 percent (whichever number is greater) of the institution’s scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in his or her sport. Only scheduled or completed competition against outside participants during the playing season that concludes with the NCAA championship, or, if so designated, during the official NCAA championship playing season in that sport (e.g., spring baseball, fall soccer), shall be countable under this limitation in calculating both the number of contests or dates of competition in which the student-athlete has participated and the number of scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition during that season in the sport. Dates of competition that are exempted (e.g., alumni contests, foreign team in the United States) from the maximum permissible number of contests or dates of competition shall count toward the number of contests or dates in which the student-athlete has participated and the number of scheduled or completed contests or dates of competition in the season, except for scrimmages and exhibition contests that are specifically identified as such in the sport’s Bylaw 17 playing and practice season regulations. Scrimmages and exhibition contests that are not exempted from the maximum permissible number of contests or dates of competition may be excluded from the calculation only if they are identified as such in the sport’s Bylaw 17 playing and practice season regulations

So I read up on it because I was curious if the exhibitions would count, making it 11/33 instead of 9/31. Also even after reading this, I'm not certain whether postseason games count towards the denominator, but the two preseason exhibitions clearly fall under the Bylaw 17 exemption so Amile only counts as playing in 9. Interestingly, foreign tours are not exempt from the 30% rule. For example, I had always assumed that Alex Poythress would have been eligible for a redshirt, but he just wasn't interested. Now, I'm not sure he could have gotten it. He played in 8 regular season games, but UK played 5 games in the Bahamas that year. So if Conference and NCAA games don't count, he'd have been over the limit. If they do count, he would have come in just under the mark, 13/44=.295. What would be crazy about that would be that if he was eligible and had actually wanted it, his year of eligibility would have literally hung in the balance with Jerian Grant's game winning attempt in the elite 8 as 13/43=.302. I don't know if the NCAA games actually count, but it would be pretty nuts if a jump shot could control someone's eligibility.

[OldPhiKap]

If it turns out to be season-ending, he'll be able to medical redshirt: http://informedathlete.com/medical-hardship-waivers/



Duke will play 31 games in just the regular season. 9 / 31 = 29%

Hope this is not the case. But also good to know, if necessary, that Amile can come back for a full season.

Maybe my favorite guy on this year's team. Very sad.

[CDu]

As others have said, this sucks. Jefferson was one of our least replaceable commodities: a double-double guy who is also a terrific defender. We have plenty of bigs, but none who do what he does like he does. I suspect Jeter will see a big increase in minutes, with Plumlee, Kennard, Thornton, and Ingram seeing more minutes as well. We will probably go small more, otherwise this will really test Coach K's "we have 8 starters" statement as to truth or coachspeak. I suspect Obi and/or Vrankovic may bump up a few mpg, but not into the main rotation.

So a really young team just got MUCH younger. Let's hope the kids are up to it.

Also, let's hope the timeline for recovery is more like Ryan Kelly's rather than Irving's. If he can return by mid-February, we can have time to adjust back to his return.

Regardless, man does this stink for Jefferson. Nobody should get hurt, but it especially stinks for a kid that had paid his dues and is finally in the limelight.

[Indoor66]

Please get well soon. You are too good, too nice, to diligent and too worthy to be out long. I wish you the best. :cool:

[jipops]

Jefferson was our ONLY skilled big man. This is huge. He has been a rock on both ends of the floor. Given the lack of detail one can assume it's pretty bad. And given recent history with Kyrie and Kelly, this has shown to not bode well. I'm crushed for Amile and as a selfish fan I'm resigned to seeing my team go through a lot of struggles in the coming months.

[SupaDave]

Paging Sean Obi...

[freshmanjs]

Paging Sean Obi...

still won't play.

[gurufrisbee]

Jeter gets a huge opportunity. MP3 gets a chance to step up some. Obi and Vrank will see a little more time. Hopefully Amile takes the time to get it 100%. He's been remarkable. Offense, defense, rebounding, leadership - he was in the All ACC teams discussion. But I'd rather him miss 10 games in December and January and none in March and April.

[jipops]

still won't play.

Yea, I'm betting we still won't see all that much of Obi. I could be wrong but the impression I get is Obi's lack of ability on offense and defense pretty much negates his ability on the boards. I think we'll see more of Ingram at the 4, which is going to have its issues, much more pt for Jeter and a little bit more for Vrankovic.

That's 3 freshmen with increased roles. We just got A LOT younger.

The only silver lining I see in all this is the possible benefit it will give Jeter going into next year. But nothing else.

[jipops]

Jeter gets a huge opportunity. MP3 gets a chance to step up some. Obi and Vrank will see a little more time. Hopefully Amile takes the time to get it 100%. He's been remarkable. Offense, defense, rebounding, leadership - he was in the All ACC teams discussion. But I'd rather him miss 10 games in December and January and none in March and April.

What happens in February?

[Troublemaker]

Jefferson was our ONLY skilled big man. This is huge. He has been a rock on both ends of the floor. Given the lack of detail one can assume it's pretty bad. And given recent history with Kyrie and Kelly, this has shown to not bode well. I'm crushed for Amile and as a selfish fan I'm resigned to seeing my team go through a lot of struggles in the coming months.

We either agree or disagree depending on what you mean by "lots of struggles."

I think we probably are not as good as UVA, UNC, and Louisville now. I think we might still be as good as Miami and better than every remaining ACC team. So, probably not good enough to challenge for the conference title, but still easily a tournament team.

And there's still an outside chance we belong in the discussion with UVA, UNC, and Louisville. It's just that everything has to break right -- no more injuries; MP3 steps up in his new role as the sole experienced big man; Chase steps up to be a reliable 7th man; Brandon isn't overwhelmed playing almost exclusively PF.

[jipops]

We either agree or disagree depending on what you mean by "lots of struggles."

I think we probably are not as good as UVA, UNC, and Louisville now. I think we might still be as good as Miami and better than every remaining ACC team. So, probably not good enough to challenge for the conference title, but still easily a tournament team.

And there's still an outside chance we belong in the discussion with UVA, UNC, and Louisville. It's just that everything has to break right -- no more injuries; MP3 steps up in his new role as the sole experienced big man; Chase steps up to be a reliable 7th man; Brandon isn't overwhelmed playing almost exclusively PF.

I think we'll have a decent barometer after our first two ACC games against BC and Wake, both on the road. If we can manage to get out of those with 2 W's then we may be ok. If not, then things could get rather hairy.

I expect us to have a rather difficult time defensively against Utah tomorrow night.

Amile was an excellent defender. Not only that, he has been one of the best offensive rebounders in the country. So expect offensive production to be significantly diminished as well.

[BD80]

Jeter gets a huge opportunity. MP3 gets a chance to step up some. Obi and Vrank will see a little more time. Hopefully Amile takes the time to get it 100%. He's been remarkable. Offense, defense, rebounding, leadership - he was in the All ACC teams discussion. But I'd rather him miss 10 games in December and January and none in March and April.

I hope Chase has a Christmas goose, turkey, ham, sirloin roast, all the trimmings, LOTS of figgy pudding, Christmas cookies, egg nog protein shakes out the hoo-hah and anything else that can add some useful bulk to his frame.

The pressure for Marshall to stay on the floor will be great, hopefully it won't stop him from continuing to be more assertive.

Positive vibes to Amile. Coach K knows Amile will come back stronger.

[moonpie23]

well, damn..... :(


let's go chase...

[dukelifer]

As others have said, this sucks. Jefferson was one of our least replaceable commodities: a double-double guy who is also a terrific defender. We have plenty of bigs, but none who do what he does like he does. I suspect Jeter will see a big increase in minutes, with Plumlee, Kennard, Thornton, and Ingram seeing more minutes as well. We will probably go small more, otherwise this will really test Coach K's "we have 8 starters" statement as to truth or coachspeak. I suspect Obi and/or Vrankovic may bump up a few mpg, but not into the main rotation.

So a really young team just got MUCH younger. Let's hope the kids are up to it.

Also, let's hope the timeline for recovery is more like Ryan Kelly's rather than Irving's. If he can return by mid-February, we can have time to adjust back to his return.

Regardless, man does this stink for Jefferson. Nobody should get hurt, but it especially stinks for a kid that had paid his dues and is finally in the limelight.

My thoughts exactly. Amile was the guy who could settle down the team and so far he has been a rock on both ends of the floor. This young team is going to struggle without him- particularly on the road. I have liked what I have seen from Jeter. He will definitely get a chance now. Long term- this will pay dividends- short term, could be a big challenge.

[Jarhead]

Sorry for Amile, but just when did this happen? All of the praise for him in this thread is deserved, and the opportunity for him to improve as the season goes along would have been big time. What frustrates me the most is that I watched every minute of every game this year, but I don't recall the injury. In God, and Duke Medicine I trust, and a quick recovery for Amile, please.

[Tripping William]

Sorry for Amile, but just when did this happen? All of the praise for him in this thread is deserved, and the opportunity for him to improve as the season goes along would have been big time. What frustrates me the most is that I watched every minute of every game this year, but I don't recall the injury. In God, and Duke Medicine I trust, and a quick recovery for Amile, please.

I have not seen anything official, but I tend to think that Allen Iverson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI) may have <ahem> the answer. :rolleyes:

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

What happens in February?

Duh, Valentine's Day

[BD80]

Duh, Valentine's Day

He wasn't that good of a ref ...

[Leelee902]

Remember -- Amile got his first chance to show us who he was his freshman year when Ryan Kelly went down with that foot injury. Even though we lost at NC State in his first game with real minutes, he definitely showed he belonged! Crossing fingers that Jeter has a similar trajectory.

[moonpie23]

Boozer's down, all is lost....

[Wahoo2000]

5th metatarsal? Turf toe? Achilles heal? We'll know when they want us to know. Personally I'm optoemistic it's not KyrieToe.

Get well soon, Amile.

Brogdon had the 5th metatarsal issue his first year. Needed surgery and had to redshirt the following season to get all the way back.

If that's what Jefferson has, hopefully rest/layoff will resolve the issue and he won't need surgery.

Other possibilities are a lisfranc (as someone else mentioned) that could've occurred in practice, or even a plantar fasciitis issue that could have been nagging him for awhile but getting worse by playing heavy minutes.

[kAzE]

I hope Chase has a Christmas goose, turkey, ham, sirloin roast, all the trimmings, LOTS of figgy pudding, Christmas cookies, egg nog protein shakes out the hoo-hah and anything else that can add some useful bulk to his frame.

The pressure for Marshall to stay on the floor will be great, hopefully it won't stop him from continuing to be more assertive.

Positive vibes to Amile. Coach K knows Amile will come back stronger.

I'm expecting Marshall to be up to the challenge. He won't replace 100% of Amile but with everyone counting on him to stay on the floor and really start asserting himself on the boards, I think he will average around 28 minutes and close to 9+ boards going forward. We don't really have any other choice. Defensively, I think we take a small step down, but if Chase can play well on D, I think we will be mostly okay there.

Offensively, this is a devastating blow. Amile was our best passer from the high post, and the only guy who could take a man 1 on 1 in the post and score. It would lower this team's ceiling immeasurably if he were lost for the season. We will likely attempt to replace his role on offense with Brandon, meaning even more touches and more shots for the freshman. He looked ready enough last game, so let's hope he just keeps it going.

[TKG]

I'm expecting Marshall to be up to the challenge

KAzE, while I agree with you about Marshall, he is going to need help. I wonder what this does to the 1-3-1 K has been running from time to time. Who mans the defense down low?

[madscavenger]

As integral as Amile is to the team, you cannot rush him. He's our best big on defense, maybe irreplaceable in terms of experience (both in employment and communication), and the most versatile, reliable big on O. But we have to move on. One very important aspect of this i don't recall seeing mentioned is the affect it has on practice.

i personally don't think this will be a sharing of responsibility situation as much as a restructuring. That will require experimentation beyond what we normally do pre-ACC. However, as has already been mentioned, we excel at incorporating change. Be patient. If anyone can find a way, K can (and i expect will).

[MarkD83]

I wish Amile a quick recovery and agree his injury is a blow to the team. However this is the type of situation where coach K does his best work. I am almost anxious like a kid waiting to open a Christmas present to see what coach K does

[tdrake51]

I am curious to see if this means more minutes for Luke or Thornton. I think Chase obviously gets a boost, but I think most of our minutes will be played with either Chase or Marshall, not both. Does Luke or Derryck slide into the starting lineup? Derryck is the obvious choice with Luke backing up all perimeter positions, but it wouldn't shock me to see Luke start.

[Ichabod Drain]

KAzE, while I agree with you about Marshall, he is going to need help. I wonder what this does to the 1-3-1 K has been running from time to time. Who mans the defense down low?

Matt Jones

[Indoor66]

Every one of these guys were recruited for their ability to play basketball. We lose experience for a period of time. We lose Amile's leadership for a time. We gain experience for other players - each of whom has a skill set the coaching staff admired enough to offer a scholarship. We will be fine. Different, but fine.

[elvis14]

Every one of these guys were recruited for their ability to play basketball. We lose experience for a period of time. We lose Amile's leadership for a time. We gain experience for other players - each of whom has a skill set the coaching staff admired enough to offer a scholarship. We will be fine. Different, but fine.

I'm really hoping that Chase is able to step up to the challenge and help fill the void. The silver lining in this could be the that Jeter and Thornton play more and grow into their expanded roles. If we do happen to get Amile back we end up with a senior leader capable of averaging a double-double and two freshman with solid game experience and we finish the season strong.

Of course, like everyone else, I'm waiting to hear more about Amile.

[MChambers]

It's over.

You guys are really slipping if I get to say this so late in a thread.

Seriously, I feel very badly for Amile. Terrible thing to happen when he's emerged as one of our most valuable players on a very good team. Hope he heals quickly and is back by February.

Chance for Jeter, Ingram, Kennard and Thornton to play bigger roles.

[CDu]

It's over.

You guys are really slipping if I get to say this so late in a thread.

You probably should refer back to post #5 by devildeac.

[brevity]

Damn Nike shoes/floors.

It's probably less money, but Coach K needs to switch to a shoe contract with Dr. Comfort (http://drcomfort.com). It may hurt Duke recruiting at the AAU level, but the AARP circuit will more than make up for it.

In all seriousness, Amile Jefferson is my favorite active Duke player and he has been since his freshman year. Strange as this sounds, I'm a bigger fan of him than I am of this squad. If a conflict of interest arose and I had to choose, you don't want to hear my answer.

Let's just say that regular season games and especially weekly polls just took a huge backseat to the individual healing process. If he is healthy by March, fine. If he is healthy by May, that's fine too.

[tux]

I am curious to see if this means more minutes for Luke or Thornton. I think Chase obviously gets a boost, but I think most of our minutes will be played with either Chase or Marshall, not both. Does Luke or Derryck slide into the starting lineup? Derryck is the obvious choice with Luke backing up all perimeter positions, but it wouldn't shock me to see Luke start.


I agree with your take here. I think all the guys who were firmly in the rotation will get a boost in minutes, with the slack taken up by Jeter. Jeter was the closest to getting real minutes before the injury, and is the most natural replacement for Amile. It's a great opportunity for Chase to get more comfortable out there. My gut tells me Thornton will move into the starting lineup and Matt, Grayson, and Brandon will slide down. That lineup should be really good defensively (at least on paper). We'll miss Amile's contribution for sure, but it's nice to have a couple non-conference games to adjust before the ACC grind begins.

[MCFinARL]

Yep, this is what I expect. Luke plays all the backup minutes for the 3 perimeter positions. Chase now has a big role as the first big off the bench. Maybe Vrank/Obi will pitch in, but I can envision Coach K going "Seven is Sufficient."


This sounds right to me too. We will most likely see Vrank and/or Obi in limited minutes where there is a foul trouble situation--either both Marshall and Chase in some foul trouble or Marshall in trouble and a situation where, at least briefly, it seems important to have a big player with some bulk on the floor.

As others have noted, there is a chance Luke may start instead of Derryck, but if that happens I suspect it will be because of practice performance, as Derryck provides point guard skills that may be even more important without a team leader like Amile on the court, and he has defensive abilities as well. On the other hand, as others have also stated, Coach K is a master at thinking up entirely new approaches when necessary, and he may see things differently.

Sending very best wishes to Amile, who is my favorite player on this team. Get better quickly if you can, but get better thoroughly for sure.

[RepoMan]

Obviously, this sucks for Amile. And the team. And the fans. At the same time:

1. It is almost impossible to go injury free, and, as far as timing, this is about as good as it gets.

2. We won the National Championship last year!

3. There is a chance this development gives us a better chance to win another championship this year. IF Jeter or someone else takes advantage of the opportunity and develops, we gain more experienced depth.


In any event, it will be interesting to see this already young team develop.

[Clay Feet POF]

Starter no but someone has to rebound. Not sure Plumlee can play 35 minutes


Army Strong!

[Li_Duke]

For sanity sake, I'm going to assume he's done for the year.

At least I can now daydream of our monster 2016-17 squad with redshirt senior Amile Jefferson.

[Ichabod Drain]

For sanity sake, I'm going to assume he's done for the year.

At least I can now daydream of our monster 2016-17 squad with redshirt senior Amile Jefferson.

It's hard to choose between that and daydreaming about him being back playing for this team in a month. I think I would choose the latter.

[arnie]

Obviously, this sucks for Amile. And the team. And the fans. At the same time:

1. It is almost impossible to go injury free, and, as far as timing, this is about as good as it gets.

2. We won the National Championship last year!

3. There is a chance this development gives us a better chance to win another championship this year. IF Jeter or someone else takes advantage of the opportunity and develops, we gain more experienced depth.


In any event, it will be interesting to see this already young team develop.

No. 2 has a shelf life of at least 365 days (leap year) and coupled with the impending 40-0 2016/2017 campaign, all is good on the land of Duke.

[Troublemaker]

Obviously, this sucks for Amile. And the team. And the fans. At the same time:

1. It is almost impossible to go injury free, and, as far as timing, this is about as good as it gets.


So as not to anger them, I will prostrate myself before the Injury Gods and point out that:

(1) It's possible for the team to suffer additional injuries. Amile's foot doesn't fill a quota.
(2) We don't know that Amile is coming back. The timing of this injury isn't all that great if it's a 4-month injury, for example.

[freshmanjs]

So as not to anger them, I will prostrate myself before the Injury Gods and point out that:

(1) It's possible for the team to suffer additional injuries. Amile's foot doesn't fill a quota.
(2) We don't know that Amile is coming back. The timing of this injury isn't all that great if it's a 4-month injury, for example.

we have now had 4 of the last 6 seasons significantly derailed by injury. i'm not sure what is typical, but it feels like a lot.

[CDu]

Army Strong!

I'm not at all concerned with Plumlee's physical ability to withstand 35 minutes of basketball. I AM concerned with Plumlee's ability to play effective basketball for 35 minutes without fouling out. He's currently averaging 4.44 fouls per 40 minutes, and that is a career-best (not counting his 50 total minutes in mop-up duty as a frosh).

[flyingdutchdevil]

So as not to anger them, I will prostrate myself before the Injury Gods and point out that:

(1) It's possible for the team to suffer additional injuries. Amile's foot doesn't fill a quota.
(2) We don't know that Amile is coming back. The timing of this injury isn't all that great if it's a 4-month injury, for example.

Any idea on the type of injury? Foot injury is about as generic as "I'll have a cocktail" when ordering a drink at a bar.

I'm sure we'll get clarity on the injury during tonight's game (and Coach K's presser), but wanted to see if there was anything new.

[kAzE]

Any idea on the type of injury? Foot injury is about as generic as "I'll have a cocktail" when ordering a drink at a bar.

I'm sure we'll get clarity on the injury during tonight's game (and Coach K's presser), but wanted to see if there was anything new.

I'm guessing it's a fracture. Usually when it's a toe, it's actually called a toe injury, and if it was a sprain or a strain, I don't think people would be talking about it as seriously. It's kind of useless to speculate, though. Any way you look at it, it sucks for Amile and the team. If he could be back by March, would you rather he come back this year or just wait till next year?

On the one hand, with Amile, we would have the horses to make a serious run at defending the national title this year, on the other, we could have one of the greatest front courts in Duke history next year with Amile, Harry, and Jayson. Such a tough call.

[uh_no]

we have now had 4 of the last 6 seasons significantly derailed by injury. i'm not sure what is typical, but it feels like a lot.

Kyrie Ryan amile and???

[NYBri]

I'm guessing it's a fracture. Usually when it's a toe, it's actually called a toe injury, and if it was a sprain or a strain, I don't think people would be talking about it as seriously. It's kind of useless to speculate, though. Any way you look at it, it sucks for Amile and the team. If he could be back by March, would you rather he come back this year or just wait till next year? Such a tough call.

I agree that it's probably a fracture...and one that needs surgery. Usually when it's a clean break that can be set and put in a cast to heal, there is a pretty good time line for recovery...when it comes to surgery, the term "indefinitely" comes to mind. It's all just guessing though.

[freshmanjs]

Kyrie Ryan amile and???

2011 - kyrie
2012 - ryan kelly (i am convinced we do much better in acc and ncaa tournaments with ryan)
2013 - ryan kelly again
2016 - amile

[flyingdutchdevil]

Kyrie Ryan amile and???

Ryan 2x

[Henderson]

It's the "indefinitely" that I don't like. It's not out for 4-6 weeks or out for 3-4 months. Indefinitely feels more indefinite. And a lot longer. It also suggests "we have no idea" or "we have an idea that we aren't sharing." Either of which is...

Maddening.

And then there's The Foot Pattern...

Grumble grumble.

[oldnavy]

This stinks!

I said in a different thread that I thought Amile's development and play were key factors to this years team (not exactly insightful - I know). AND, he was doing exactly what I had hoped he would.

Good luck Amile, hope you get well real soon!

[BD80]

... In all seriousness, Amile Jefferson is my favorite active Duke player and he has been since his freshman year. ...

You're about to have lots of company.

Amile was our most reliable player this year, and averaged a double-double against non-conference foes.

As he sits on the bench, his legend will grow. By February, he will be remembered as reminding people of a combination of Karl Malone and Magic Johnson, a sure-fire lottery pick, who almost beat Kentucky single-handedly but got no support from the rest of the team.

Next man up. Next play.

[MChambers]

You probably should refer back to post #5 by devildeac.

Thanks for the correction! I missed devildeac's post. I'll have to spork him.

[SCMatt33]

Indefinitely feels more indefinite.

Definitely.

In all seriousness though, the part about indefinitely that's bugging me the most is that it wasn't followed by anything that suggests it will become definitely. If it was out indefinitely, pending the result of this MRI we have scheduled tomorrow, I'd feel better. I'm sure we'll hear more today (sorry if I missed something already announced towards this, I only scanned this morning posts for blue links) but the announcement imo had more of a "we're not going to know" vibe rather than a "we don't know yet" vibe. Of course, this could also just be waiting until after the game tonight to give real details, which I'm sure we're all anxious to hear.

[devildeac]

Meeks out for UNC

Food related injury?

(sorry)

He's done a really good job getting in shape since joining the cheaters with his ~60 pound weight loss so he does deserve short applause for that.

Hope he mends slowly and completely.

[devildeac]

It's over.

You guys are really slipping if I get to say this so late in a thread.

Seriously, I feel very badly for Amile. Terrible thing to happen when he's emerged as one of our most valuable players on a very good team. Hope he heals quickly and is back by February.

Chance for Jeter, Ingram, Kennard and Thornton to play bigger roles.

Great set-up for the classic:

It's not over 'til we say it's over...

(apologies if someone beat me to it)

[oldnavy]

Great set-up for the classic:

It's not over 'til we say it's over...

(apologies if someone beat me to it)

Was it over when the German's bombed Pearl Harbor???

[Indoor66]

Food related injury?

Injured his wrist lifting an Egg McMuffin.

[SCMatt33]

Injured his wrist lifting an Egg McMuffin.

Sean May's on staff now. Coincidence?

[Ichabod Drain]

Sean May's on staff now. Coincidence?

He'll be in charge of the rehab.

[devildeac]

Injured his wrist lifting an Egg McMuffin.


Sean May's on staff now. Coincidence?

Well, the area McDs are selling Egg McMuffins now 2 for $3.33, so it may have been several items in his grasp...

:rolleyes:

[devildeac]

He'll be in charge of the rehab.

Dangerous combination...

[oldnavy]

Dangerous combination...

As a kid who had to wear "husky" sizes from Sears, I am offended by the weight jokes!!

No... not really, but I hate missing out on the "I'm offended by that..." fun everyone seems to be having these days!

Carry on...

[DukeFanSince1990]

*tears clothes in mourning*

[mattman91]

As a kid who had to wear "husky" sizes from Sears, I am offended by the weight jokes!!

No... not really, but I hate missing out on the "I'm offended by that..." fun everyone seems to be having these days!

Carry on...

I'm offended that you aren't offended by offensive jokes.

[oldnavy]

I'm offended that you aren't offended by offensive jokes.

Couldn't just let me have my offensive without wanting to horn in on it could you?? Well buzzkill you did it! Now I'm feeling guilty again!! I so wanted to be the offended one for once!

[devildeac]

As a kid who had to wear "husky" sizes from Sears, I am offended by the weight jokes!!

No... not really, but I hate missing out on the "I'm offended by that..." fun everyone seems to be having these days!

Carry on...

A kid who wore "husky" sizes? We must be related:o.

[devildeac]

I'm offended that you aren't offended by offensive jokes.

Are you applying for the offensive coordinator position that opens up for the FB team on 1/1/16?:rolleyes:

[jimsumner]

Kyrie Ryan amile and???

2011-Irving toe injury
2012-Kelly hurts foot before ACCT. Ends his season.
2013-Kelly hurts foot; returns with career game but struggles in post-season. Did injury derail season? Curry played entire season with lower-leg issues. Does that count?
2014-healthiest team in recent memory. Hmm.
2015-Sulaimon puts foot in mouth one too many times. Team seemed to adjust reasonably well.
2016-TBD

[MCFinARL]

I agree that it's probably a fracture...and one that needs surgery. Usually when it's a clean break that can be set and put in a cast to heal, there is a pretty good time line for recovery...when it comes to surgery, the term "indefinitely" comes to mind. It's all just guessing though.

Yes, although--speaking from memory here and not from any sort of medical expertise, of which I have none--isn't it sometimes the case that certain injuries are given a period of weeks to heal without surgery and then a decision is made about whether surgery is necessary? (I have the idea in my head that Kyrie's situation may have been like that.) In that case if the non-surgical healing goes well, the recovery period could be shorter, permitting a comeback during the season, but if the attempt to avoid surgery doesn't succeed, the player could be done for the season.

[NYBri]

Yes, although--speaking from memory here and not from any sort of medical expertise, of which I have none--isn't it sometimes the case that certain injuries are given a period of weeks to heal without surgery and then a decision is made about whether surgery is necessary? (I have the idea in my head that Kyrie's situation may have been like that.) In that case if the non-surgical healing goes well, the recovery period could be shorter, permitting a comeback during the season, but if the attempt to avoid surgery doesn't succeed, the player could be done for the season.

Kyrie's injury, IIRC, was a toe injury...not foot. Amile's is a "right foot injury." Maybe there is a muscle tear or tendon tear...but usually a broken bone is the issue. Understand that I don't even play a doctor on TV, and haven't even stayed at a Holiday Inn Express...so I'm basically guessing.

[DukieInKansas]

The good news is that Amile can still be a leader on the team - the bad news is that it will be from the bench.

Still hoping for a quick and complete recovery. I hope he adds to his basketball knowledge while viewing from the bench.

[Old man]

He is expected to be out at least 8 weeks

[wk2109]

The silver lining here is that if Amile is able to play again this year, re-integrating him into the lineup probably won't be as difficult as re-integrating Kyrie, or even Ryan. Because Amile is more of a glue guy and the offense doesn't revolve around him, his return (hopefully) won't disturb whatever chemistry the team develops while he's out.

But, of course, if Brandon now spends all of his time at the 4, the team might get used to playing only with a stretch 4 and re-integrating Amile would require more of an adjustment. I'm curious to see if Chase is used primarily as Marshall's backup, and a wing plays the 4 whenever Brandon sits, or if we'll see some Marshall/Chase lineups. If Marshall and Chase do spend a non-negligible amount of minutes together, then Amile's return won't be as jarring, because the team will be used to playing with two traditional bigs.

In 2011 and 2013, when Kyrie and Ryan came back at the end of the season, the team was able to maintain a high level of play in their absence (22-4 without Kyrie and a #1 seed; 9-4 without Ryan and the highest #2 seed). I think the ability of this year's team to be/remain an elite team without Amile is more of a question.

[flyingdutchdevil]

He is expected to be out at least 8 weeks

Source? I'll take 8 weeks in a heartbeat.

[Old man]

100 percent reliable

[CDu]

Source? I'll take 8 weeks in a heartbeat.

Technically he/she said "at least." Meaning 8 weeks is a best case, probably longer. Of cource, no source provided, so it could be garbage info.

[Jeffrey]

Technically he/she said "at least." Meaning 8 weeks is a best case, probably longer. Of cource, no source provided, so it could be garbage info.

Very true, at least 8 weeks is bad news and, unfortunately, likely. I have no source, just reading into past statement.

[Pghdukie]

Has there been an AJ sighting at Cameron yet tonight ?

[kAzE]

Ouch . . 8 weeks would put his return date sometime close to the postseason. The good news is that Amile's re-integration should be relatively smooth (relative to Kyrie's), since he plays off the ball. I think Brandon would continue to see most of his minutes at the 4 even with Amile back in the lineup.

[SCMatt33]

Has there been an AJ sighting at Cameron yet tonight ?

Just got a text from my buddy at the game. Apparently, Amile is in a hard cast and not a boot. Wild guessing here, but that likely means 6-8 week for something to heal. The good news is that it also probably means that they are ruling out surgery as you wouldn't waste you're time hard casting it to cut it off in a week to operate.

[dukelion]

If 8 weeks is true then that puts him back (conservatively) for either UVA or the Cheaters.

That gives him 5-6 games plus the ACC tourney to get back into form.

All things considered....great news if true.

[flyingdutchdevil]

If 8 weeks is true then that puts him back (conservatively) for either UVA or the Cheaters.

That gives him 5-6 games plus the ACC tourney to get back into form.

All things considered...great news if true.

Yup. Target date of early February. I'll take that. Thank God for 31 days in December AND January ;)

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Crutches, no boot.

[NYBri]

Judging from the look on the cast, it's an injury from mid to back of foot. No meditarsals.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Judging from the look on the cast, it's an injury from mid to back of foot. No meditarsals.

I love DBR. Thanks for your opinion. What does that mean in terms of a) healing time and b) severity and c) probability of reinjury?

Thanks for your knowledge!

[Troublemaker]

Meant to post this here, too


Coach K said on the radio it is a broken foot. No surgery. Healing timetable to be determined later.

Apparently a timetable determined now is pretty worthless. But a timetable determined later will be more accurate.

No word on the timetable to determine the timetable.

[SCMatt33]

Judging from the look on the cast, it's an injury from mid to back of foot. No meditarsals.

What makes you say this? That cast just about covers his toes. Metatarsal's look immobilized to me. Not a medical expert though that's for sure.

[dukelifer]

Source? I'll take 8 weeks in a heartbeat.

Hard to stay in basketball shape when you cannot run. Lots of risk for another injury in compensation. A lot will depend on how the season shapes up. Is it true that he could redshirt?

[Henderson]

Well, the area McDs are selling Egg McMuffins now 2 for $3.33, so it may have been several items in his grasp...


Heels lay an egg at Texas. Meeks injures himself scarfing it down. It's poetic.

But back on topic: It's painful to imagine how Amile must feel right about now.

[SCMatt33]

Heels lay an egg at Texas. Meeks injures himself scarfing it down. It's poetic.

But back on topic: It's painful to imagine how Amile must feel right about now.

Well if feels too sad, he can always look at that big ol' ring he earned last year! :D

[-jk]

Hard to stay in basketball shape when you cannot run. Lots of risk for another injury in compensation. A lot will depend on how the season shapes up. Is it true that he could redshirt?

Fortunately we have a really good sports medicine department. (Wait: Is that part of the NCAA athletics side of Duke or the university side? Who gets the charge? I can never keep these things separated...)

-jk

[weezie]

...I hate missing out on the "I'm offended by that..." fun everyone seems to be having these days...

Lol me too! I suffer from being very overlookable.

[77devil]

Fortunately we have a really good sports medicine department. (Wait: Is that part of the NCAA athletics side of Duke or the university side? Who gets the charge? I can never keep these things separated...)

-jk

Not an impermissible benefit.

[uh_no]

The word on the street among the folks in my section at the game was that it is a stress fracture (at least one fan indicated it was a stress fracture with a confidence indicating he knew for sure....FWIW).

A stress fracture could be consistent with both a cast, an "8 week" early estimate, as well as potentially being indefinite.

Either way, it could still be absolute bogus.

So anyway, did anyone else hear anything like that from people at the game? Did it come up at the presser?

[jipops]

Reading post game comments by K it does indeed look to be a fracture. The good news is there will be no surgery forthcoming. Hopefully Amile can hang out with Boozer for a few weeks.

I'm a little more optimistic and less grim than at this time last night. Maybe we actually will see Amile back on the floor this season. But as K also alluded, this team absolutely cannot afford another injury, else it could be toast. There is going to be a lot less contact in upcoming practices.

[devildeac]

From my source (friend via text from wife of a Duke orthopedic faculty member):

Out 8-10 weeks. Fracture (no details whether "regular" fracture or stress fracture). No surgery planned.

[devildeac]

Reading post game comments by K it does indeed look to be a fracture. The good news is there will be no surgery forthcoming. Hopefully Amile can hang out with Boozer for a few weeks.

I'm a little more optimistic and less grim than at this time last night. Maybe we actually will see Amile back on the floor this season. But as K also alluded, this team absolutely cannot afford another injury, else it could be toast. There is going to be a lot less contact in upcoming practices.

We are absolutely going to have keep Tonya Harding away from our practices, too. :o

[SCMatt33]

I don't know where people are getting these time-frames. Coach K was pretty forthright in the presser about what the injury is, though he didn't identify a specific bone, which is a key piece of information. He was very clear that a) surgery is not required and b) the cast will come off after Christmas and he will go into a boot, implying that the hard cast is only a precaution for when he goes home for the holiday. The problem with foot fractures is that from everything I have read or been told by medical experts (of which I'm certainly not one), depending on the bone and how the person heals, the timelines are very inexact. A bone could heal in as little as 4 weeks or as many as 12. It's not something that is really known for sure until a few weeks in when the healing can be evaluated by follow up x-rays. I would imagine that most of the timeframes people are getting are based on normal timetables for fractures, but again, feet can be very tricky to predict and the timeline likely needs to be expanded on both the short and the long end.

[English]

From my source (friend via text from wife of a Duke orthopedic faculty member):

Out 8-10 weeks. Fracture (no details whether "regular" fracture or stress fracture). No surgery planned.

According to comments in the post-game pressers tonight, it happened when Amile was diving for a loose ball at practice toward the end of the team's break. I'm not an MD, but I've had a stress fracture or two, and that type of impact sounds like it's a regular fracture to me. Not sure if/how that would impact recovery timetable, etc.

[Olympic Fan]

Just to summarize what K said after the game (to confirm what English and SCMatt33 reported and to refute some of the misinformation posted above):

-- Amile's injury is a fractured bone in his right foot. K did not say what bone. And he did not call it a stress fracture.

-- The injury occurred during a scramble for a loose ball in practice. That does not sound like a stress fracture.

-- The injury will not require surgery. K repeated this two or three times -- as if it is important.

-- The foot is in a cast and will remain in the cast until Amile returns to Duke on Dec. 26 after returning home for Christmas. At that point, the foot will be put in a walking boot and the injury re-evaluated.

-- K said several times that he's calling the injury time indefinite because he doesn't know how long it will be. He never mentioned an 8-10 week window. He insisted that he doesn't know.

K talked about "keeping the ship afloat" until Amile returns. He mentioned that now Duke is playing with seven players. I guess neither Obi nor Vrank is really in the picture. When a reporter suggested that Chase Jeter's development was key, K quickly disagreed: "That's not the key. The key is keeping our good players on the court -- fresh and out of foul trouble."

K also suggested that the problem is that it's going to be hard to practice with such limited numbers. A reporter suggested he had the same thing last year and K said it wasn't nearly the same -- that he only lost Rasheed at the first of February and by that point "we knew who we were ... we're not at that point this year."

Just a personal observation. When I think of broken feet in the past, the time frame seems to be 3-4 weeks for Carlos Boozer in 2001 (he returned for spot duty almost exactly three weeks after the injury and seemed to be full speed in the fourth week) and two months for Elton Brand in 1998 (he was hurt just after a Dec. 21 game and he returned -- as a very effective player -- on Feb. 22). I believe that both were broken bones in the foot that did not require surgery. I would guess that their experiences give us a rough time frame for Amile's recovery -- sometime between early January and mid-February.

Of course, I understand every foot injury and every person's recovery time is different. Just offering these as rough guidelines. No hard info beyond what K said -- but I should repeat, he seemed to think the "no surgery" point was extremely significant.

[Saratoga2]

J

-

K talked about "keeping the ship afloat" until Amile returns. He mentioned that now Duke is playing with seven players. I guess neither Obi nor Vrank is really in the picture. When a reporter suggested that Chase Jeter's development was key, K quickly disagreed: "That's not the key. The key is keeping our good players on the court -- fresh and out of foul trouble."





The implication is that Chase is not a "Good" player at this point in his basketball career. Of course we all saw that last night in that Chase seems lost on defense and was having difficulty contributing on offense. On the other hand, Chase has power forward size, good body control and a desire to learn. He has a long way to go out there and wouldn't see much time at all if Amile was healthy. With Amile out and Marshall's play journeyman at best, what choice do we have but to give Chase some minutes? Apparently, neither Sean nor Vrank is showing enough in practice to be serious contenders for time.

[freshmanjs]

The implication is that Chase is not a "Good" player at this point in his basketball career. Of course we all saw that last night in that Chase seems lost on defense and was having difficulty contributing on offense. On the other hand, Chase has power forward size, good body control and a desire to learn. He has a long way to go out there and wouldn't see much time at all if Amile was healthy. With Amile out and Marshall's play journeyman at best, what choice do we have but to give Chase some minutes? Apparently, neither Sean nor Vrank is showing enough in practice to be serious contenders for time.

He actually said "really good" not "good". this is the trouble with trying to parse words from a fan's paraphrasing on a message board of what Coach K said. He also didn't immediately disagree as indicated above. He talked a bit about Chase's youth. Then he said "that's not the key, though."

[arnie]

The implication is that Chase is not a "Good" player at this point in his basketball career. Of course we all saw that last night in that Chase seems lost on defense and was having difficulty contributing on offense. On the other hand, Chase has power forward size, good body control and a desire to learn. He has a long way to go out there and wouldn't see much time at all if Amile was healthy. With Amile out and Marshall's play journeyman at best, what choice do we have but to give Chase some minutes? Apparently, neither Sean nor Vrank is showing enough in practice to be serious contenders for time.

From the McDonald's all star game through the games he's played at Duke, Chase simply hasn't appeared to be ready to play against top level competition. The recruiting services can inflate our expectations and I think that's happened with Chase. Of course, it goes the other way too, as I doubt many of us thought Winslow would make such an impact as a freshman (if I recall, Winslow and Jeter had similar HS ratings). I suspect K will go small until Amile returns - lineup of Marshall, Ingram and pick 3 of the guards is still a very good team; just minimal depth.

[budwom]

I'm fully prepared for Amile being out for a long time....or not. No quarrel with this, but K is not above sandbagging...I vividly remember him
saying about Elton's foot "in my mind he's gone for the year." Yes, I understand, he wasn't counting on his return...but the plan behind the
scenes was to work like crazy to get him back and they did.

So based on all the good info here (and it is good) I'm going to take a wild, unsupported guess and say that Amile will be back sooner
than many assume (noting Olympic's refutation of the 8-10 week report). I'll say mid Feb at the latest, and again, I base this on nothing.

[freshmanjs]

I'm fully prepared for Amile being out for a long time...or not. No quarrel with this, but K is not above sandbagging...I vividly remember him
saying about Elton's foot "in my mind he's gone for the year." Yes, I understand, he wasn't counting on his return...but the plan behind the
scenes was to work like crazy to get him back and they did.

So based on all the good info here (and it is good) I'm going to take a wild, unsupported guess and say that Amile will be back sooner
than many assume (noting Olympic's refutation of the 8-10 week report). I'll say mid Feb at the latest, and again, I base this on nothing.

mid Feb would be 9 weeks.

[NYBri]

We can speculate on time frame based on some pretty sound assumptions, and I believe K has been given the time range for return, but he is doing what every good leader does with press and public...controlling expectation. In business, it's called client relations 101.

[gumbomoop]

... what choice do we have but to give Chase some minutes?

I don't see any choice but to give Jeter, Obi, or Vrankovic backup minutes to Plumlee. That was a short frontline we faced last evening, and we'll need some size against most opponents.

So far there's no indication that Obi or Vrankovic will be ready to provide many backup minutes, so Jeter is the clear backup option right now, by default. I don't think K would choose to play a 6-man rotation. But it's probably now 6.5.

When K says "The key is keeping our good players on the court -- fresh and out of foul trouble," sure, our best guys are Allen, Jones, and Ingram, but as Thornton and Kennard must play big minutes going forward, K can juggle the (now) 4 perimeter positions between 5 players. He can even use Jones to defend the opposing 4 at times. And I assume he'll use some zone. Our 5 perimeter guys look to average ~32 mpg each going forward, with Kennard and Thornton a little less, the other 3 a little more. But not much more, because of occasional "freshness and foul trouble" issues.

The major "freshness and foul trouble" problem is with Plumlee. He has lots of energy, and expends a lot. He also commits some awkward fouls. I'll be surprised if he can play 30 minutes consistently, so the threesome of Jeter, Obi, and Vrankovic have to provide, what, 12-15 mpg on average, right? Maybe Marshall will play 33 minutes in a game, but then only 20 and 23 the next 2. During the normal run of play in any game, K has no choice but to keep Marshall fresh and out of foul trouble by resting him periodically. Right now, K has no dependable backup, and only one plausible backup. Chase is his Hobson's Choice.

The exception maybe, last 2 minutes, protecting a 6-7 point lead, perhaps Marshall fouled out. Would K go with all 5 perimeter guys, play 1-3-1 zone, Thornton up top, Brandon in the middle, and crash the boards on D, depend on stall and excellent FT shooting to see out the win?

[Indoor66]

Lol me too! I suffer from being very overlookable.

Gee, I suffer from very overlooking. :cool:

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

All the discussion on another thread has been about how disappointing Chase has been this year so far, but really he looked pretty decent to me yesterday. He seems to suffer a bit from the MP3 issue of getting a bit TOO excited when he's in the game, but I think he has more physical gifts than Marshall long term. I'm excited to watch him develop and settle into himself.

[flyingdutchdevil]

All the discussion on another thread has been about how disappointing Chase has been this year so far, but really he looked pretty decent to me yesterday. He seems to suffer a bit from the MP3 issue of getting a bit TOO excited when he's in the game, but I think he has more physical gifts than Marshall long term. I'm excited to watch him develop and settle into himself.

I agree with you that he has plenty of potential and will be a contributing teammate at some point in his career, but what did you see yesterday that made you like Chase's game? He had that one fake and under and.... that was it. I'm pretty sure this is a game that Chase wants to forget. It wasn't pretty.

[elvis14]

All the discussion on another thread has been about how disappointing Chase has been this year so far, but really he looked pretty decent to me yesterday. He seems to suffer a bit from the MP3 issue of getting a bit TOO excited when he's in the game, but I think he has more physical gifts than Marshall long term. I'm excited to watch him develop and settle into himself.

I hate to say it but I can't agree about how he looked yesterday. Before yesterday I saw some shots and moves from Chase that made me think that he could handle more minutes. I hope I was right based on those previous games because last night Chase looked lost on both ends of the court and he got pushed around by smaller players. I agree about his physical gifts and I too am still excited to watch him develop. I'm not sure what you saw last night looked "pretty decent" because I was paying close attention to Jeter when he was in the game because of the situation and what I saw wasn't pretty. That doesn't mean he won't grow and become better, I'm 100% confident that he'll be fine long term but he didn't show much last night.

Sorry if that sounds negative, I'm just reporting what I saw (and trying to point out that I'm still bullish on the kid).

[aimo]

I think Chase was just trying too hard last night, feeling the pressure is on him now that Amile is hurt. He just needs to calm down and find his role.

[Indoor66]

I think Chase was just trying too hard last night, feeling the pressure is on him now that Amile is hurt. He just needs to calm down and find his role.

That is what I saw. Chase needs to remember Wooden's words: Be quick but don't hurry. He hurried last night.

[Jeffrey]

Ingram is now awesome on both sides of the court!

Allen and Jones are very solid players.

Plumlee is doing all that should be expected of him.

Jefferson will return this year.

I'm actually excited the other freshman will have to play more at this point in the season. Their D is unacceptable and they need game PT. I thought the same of Okafor and Jones this time last year. When it counted, both were ready to play M2M.

[jv001]

That is what I saw. Chase needs to remember Wooden's words: Be quick but don't hurry. He hurried last night.

The bolded part of your post is dead on. One other thing, Chase needs to get stronger. He get's pushed around way too much and he's fallen down more than one time. This more than likely comes from lack of strength. When I saw him as a high school senior he showed a decent jump hook shot and it went in more times than not. I'm yet to see that shot when he does get into the game. I'm not sure Chase will help very much this season. I hope I'm wrong on this. GoDuke!

[Billy Dat]

Just to summarize what K said after the game (to confirm what English and SCMatt33 reported and to refute some of the misinformation posted above)

For those interested in the primary source material:

K:
"What he did, in practice there was a loose ball and people diving. He has a fracture in his right foot. It’s non-surgical, which is really good. He’ll be out for an indefinite period of time because you don’t know how long that will take. The fact that it has no surgery is really good. He’ll be in a cast from now until the time after Utah and they go home, just so it’s protected. And then when he comes back on the 26th, the cast will be off. He’ll be in a boot and then be re-examined. Not that we expect him to be back during that time. He’ll be out for an indefinite period of time and there’s no way we can tell you how long because we don’t know. Overall, the fact that there’s no surgery is good. Obviously he’s getting the best of care. We have to keep the ship afloat while he’s gone."

[devildeac]

Just to summarize what K said after the game (to confirm what English and SCMatt33 reported and to refute some of the misinformation posted above):

-- Amile's injury is a fractured bone in his right foot. K did not say what bone. And he did not call it a stress fracture.

-- The injury occurred during a scramble for a loose ball in practice. That does not sound like a stress fracture.

-- The injury will not require surgery. K repeated this two or three times -- as if it is important.

-- The foot is in a cast and will remain in the cast until Amile returns to Duke on Dec. 26 after returning home for Christmas. At that point, the foot will be put in a walking boot and the injury re-evaluated.

-- K said several times that he's calling the injury time indefinite because he doesn't know how long it will be. He never mentioned an 8-10 week window. He insisted that he doesn't know.

K talked about "keeping the ship afloat" until Amile returns. He mentioned that now Duke is playing with seven players. I guess neither Obi nor Vrank is really in the picture. When a reporter suggested that Chase Jeter's development was key, K quickly disagreed: "That's not the key. The key is keeping our good players on the court -- fresh and out of foul trouble."

K also suggested that the problem is that it's going to be hard to practice with such limited numbers. A reporter suggested he had the same thing last year and K said it wasn't nearly the same -- that he only lost Rasheed at the first of February and by that point "we knew who we were ... we're not at that point this year."

Just a personal observation. When I think of broken feet in the past, the time frame seems to be 3-4 weeks for Carlos Boozer in 2001 (he returned for spot duty almost exactly three weeks after the injury and seemed to be full speed in the fourth week) and two months for Elton Brand in 1998 (he was hurt just after a Dec. 21 game and he returned -- as a very effective player -- on Feb. 22). I believe that both were broken bones in the foot that did not require surgery. I would guess that their experiences give us a rough time frame for Amile's recovery -- sometime between early January and mid-February.

Of course, I understand every foot injury and every person's recovery time is different. Just offering these as rough guidelines. No hard info beyond what K said -- but I should repeat, he seemed to think the "no surgery" point was extremely significant.

My memory is pretty dim but IIRC, Hurley was out about 3 wks, too. Story goes something like this (again, based on memory from A Season is a Lifetime): Hurley shows up in K's office after a visit with his orthopedic MD with a cat-that-ate-the-canary grin and kinda/sorta surprised K with the news that the bone (5th metatarsal) was healing well and he was "cleared" to play, knowing that the bone could be broken again but also with the knowledge that physical activity would promote/increase blood flow and might increase the healing process. We all know what happened after that...

[Indoor66]

We all know what happened after that...

Deacman, the heart person with the expertise, I take the above sentence as a guaranty of outcome for the year. YOU are on the hook....:D:cool:

[Olympic Fan]

My memory is pretty dim but IIRC, Hurley was out about 3 wks, too. Story goes something like this (again, based on memory from A Season is a Lifetime): Hurley shows up in K's office after a visit with his orthopedic MD with a cat-that-ate-the-canary grin and kinda/sorta surprised K with the news that the bone (5th metatarsal) was healing well and he was "cleared" to play, knowing that the bone could be broken again but also with the knowledge that physical activity would promote/increase blood flow and might increase the healing process. We all know what happened after that...

You are right ... Hurley broke his foot in the first half of the loss at UNC (and still played the second half on it) on Feb. 5. He returned at what appeared to be full speed against Virginia in Feb. 26 -- exactly 21 days later.

There were stories about what a maniac Hurley was at working out during his time off -- both on a stationary bike and in the pool.

But let's set the parameters then-- three weeks for Hurley ... really four weeks for Boozer (he made a token appearance at three weeks, but wasn't a factor until the fourth week) ... two months for Brand.

Understanding that every kid and every injury are different, that would mean we could start looking for Amile's return on about the Jan. 6 game at Wake Forest (Hurley's timetable) or the Jan. 13 game at Clemson (Boozer's timetable) ... but shouldn't be too surprised or disappointed if it's not until the game at UNC on Feb. 17 (Brand's timetable). That's a pretty wide range or possibilities.

[devildeac]

You are right ... Hurley broke his foot in the first half of the loss at UNC (and still played the second half on it) on Feb. 5. He returned at what appeared to be full speed against Virginia in Feb. 26 -- exactly 21 days later.

There were stories about what a maniac Hurley was at working out during his time off -- both on a stationary bike and in the pool.

But let's set the parameters then-- three weeks for Hurley ... really four weeks for Boozer (he made a token appearance at three weeks, but wasn't a factor until the fourth week) ... two months for Brand.

Understanding that every kid and every injury are different, that would mean we could start looking for Amile's return on about the Jan. 6 game at Wake Forest (Hurley's timetable) or the Jan. 13 game at Clemson (Boozer's timetable) ... but shouldn't be too surprised or disappointed if it's not until the game at UNC on Feb. 17 (Brand's timetable). That's a pretty wide range or possibilities.

At least according to K's book, Hurley was indeed a maniac about his rehab workouts. He and Bilas (I think) used to trade "notes" on the stairmaster about how many flights each had done in their workout that day and I think it was Bilas who finally conceded that Bobby had won when the note "860" appeared and Jay said Hurley was a madman (or insane or a machine or all of he above). I'll look that up when I get home tonight. Don't recall reading anything about a stationary bike and/or pool but that certainly makes total sense, too. Our son rehabbed a tibial stress fracture from an insane soccer schedule by swimming an hour a day and with stationary biking for about 6 weeks before he was allowed to resume running and lateral movements.

[kAzE]

I hate to say it but I can't agree about how he looked yesterday. Before yesterday I saw some shots and moves from Chase that made me think that he could handle more minutes. I hope I was right based on those previous games because last night Chase looked lost on both ends of the court and he got pushed around by smaller players. I agree about his physical gifts and I too am still excited to watch him develop. I'm not sure what you saw last night looked "pretty decent" because I was paying close attention to Jeter when he was in the game because of the situation and what I saw wasn't pretty. That doesn't mean he won't grow and become better, I'm 100% confident that he'll be fine long term but he didn't show much last night.

Sorry if that sounds negative, I'm just reporting what I saw (and trying to point out that I'm still bullish on the kid).

He did not play well in the Georgia Southern game, and I don't expect him to improve until he gets stronger. That's the main thing holding him back right now. It's the lack of lower body strength that is hurting him the most, because he's losing footing and positioning in the paint to stronger players. The upper body strength is nice to have on offense and being able to play through contact, but the lower body is the most important thing for him right now, in order for him to sustain more minutes and be in proper position to snatch rebounds and play solid post defense. I don't think his high school ranking was necessarily incorrect, because the skill and athleticism are there. He's just not physically able to compete at a high level right now. Gotta hit that weight room.

[Billy Dat]

He did not play well in the Georgia Southern game, and I don't expect him to improve until he gets stronger. That's the main thing holding him back right now. It's the lack of lower body strength that is hurting him the most, because he's losing footing and positioning in the paint to stronger players. The upper body strength is nice to have on offense and being able to play through contact, but the lower body is the most important thing for him right now, in order for him to sustain more minutes and be in proper position to snatch rebounds and play solid post defense. I don't think his high school ranking was necessarily incorrect, because the skill and athleticism are there. He's just not physically able to compete at a high level right now. Gotta hit that weight room.

I don't disagree, but he's not going to do much physical transforming in the next 3 months, if anything it'll probably be hard to keep weight on, so I think the solution is playing time which will give him the reps to better understand how to use his tools to be effective - speed over brawn, mind over matter, etc. Brandon is a string bean and he's come a long way based on reps, Chase needs to do the same.

[Saratoga2]

He did not play well in the Georgia Southern game, and I don't expect him to improve until he gets stronger. That's the main thing holding him back right now. It's the lack of lower body strength that is hurting him the most, because he's losing footing and positioning in the paint to stronger players. The upper body strength is nice to have on offense and being able to play through contact, but the lower body is the most important thing for him right now, in order for him to sustain more minutes and be in proper position to snatch rebounds and play solid post defense. I don't think his high school ranking was necessarily incorrect, because the skill and athleticism are there. He's just not physically able to compete at a high level right now. Gotta hit that weight room.

In my view it goes deeper than physical strength. I thought Chase didn't know how to position himself and allowed numerous back door cuts to the basket. Amile was smaller and lighter than Chase but knew how to position himself. You could see him getting talked to by the coaches when he came off, presumably to tell him to make adjustments in his defensive positioning. The point is that he is very inexperienced and perhaps never had to play defense in the high school game. He has a lot of natural gifts so as he gains court awareness and becomes stronger, he will become a good power forward. The fact that he is playing ahead of Obi and Vrank indicates that neither of them is ready for prime time.

[Troublemaker]

Chase played great against Georgetown, so I think while there may indeed be strength or experience issues, he is also capable of giving good minutes as of right now, too. It's just that it'll take awhile before he's consistent game after game, and those good stints will occur seemingly randomly. Good against G'town, but bad against Ga Southern? Weird.

[jimsumner]

Jeter could certainly benefit from added strength. But it seems to me that he lacks confidence most of all. His movements are tentative and he looks like he's over-thinking things rather than
reacting naturally. Pouts when things go wrong.

In other words, playing like a talented but raw 18-year-old freshman with 10 games under his belt. Not sure when the light switches on. But sooner beats later.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Like I say, Jeter's mistakes remind me of MP3's early career - overexuberance, to eager to make the great play instead of the smart play.

Luckily, that strikes me as something that can totally be under control by March if he gets his head straight.

I am not as worried about the physical bulk - partly because there's not a lot you can do in a few months in season - but also because it is NCAA, not the NBA.

Sure, it would be great if he had an extra 40 pounds of muscle, but for the most part he isn't drastically behind other post players his age. There aren't many Okafors out there, and the ones that are will abuse you regardless of your body mass index

[mattman91]

Still waiting for the thread title change...

[devildeac]

Still waiting for the thread title change...

Are you expecting a vigil?

;)

[Jarhead]

Still waiting for the thread title change...


Are you expecting a vigil?;)

When I opened this thread a short while ago I thought I was reading about Amile's plight. Instead it was now about Jeter. If Jeter needs a thread someone should have started it. On the other hand maybe a vigil for Amile Jefferson is a good idea. That may be just what we need to come back strong after Amile's injury. It's a tradition around here.

[elvis14]

Are you expecting a vigil?

;)

If you are waiting for that would that require a vigil vigil?

[sagegrouse]

So, you're saying there's a chance?


Just to summarize what K said after the game (to confirm what English and SCMatt33 reported and to refute some of the misinformation posted above):

-- Amile's injury is a fractured bone in his right foot. K did not say what bone. And he did not call it a stress fracture.

-- The injury occurred during a scramble for a loose ball in practice. That does not sound like a stress fracture.

-- The injury will not require surgery. K repeated this two or three times -- as if it is important.

-- The foot is in a cast and will remain in the cast until Amile returns to Duke on Dec. 26 after returning home for Christmas. At that point, the foot will be put in a walking boot and the injury re-evaluated.

-- K said several times that he's calling the injury time indefinite because he doesn't know how long it will be. He never mentioned an 8-10 week window. He insisted that he doesn't know.

K talked about "keeping the ship afloat" until Amile returns. He mentioned that now Duke is playing with seven players. I guess neither Obi nor Vrank is really in the picture. When a reporter suggested that Chase Jeter's development was key, K quickly disagreed: "That's not the key. The key is keeping our good players on the court -- fresh and out of foul trouble."

K also suggested that the problem is that it's going to be hard to practice with such limited numbers. A reporter suggested he had the same thing last year and K said it wasn't nearly the same -- that he only lost Rasheed at the first of February and by that point "we knew who we were ... we're not at that point this year."

Just a personal observation. When I think of broken feet in the past, the time frame seems to be 3-4 weeks for Carlos Boozer in 2001 (he returned for spot duty almost exactly three weeks after the injury and seemed to be full speed in the fourth week) and two months for Elton Brand in 1998 (he was hurt just after a Dec. 21 game and he returned -- as a very effective player -- on Feb. 22). I believe that both were broken bones in the foot that did not require surgery. I would guess that their experiences give us a rough time frame for Amile's recovery -- sometime between early January and mid-February.

Of course, I understand every foot injury and every person's recovery time is different. Just offering these as rough guidelines. No hard info beyond what K said -- but I should repeat, he seemed to think the "no surgery" point was extremely significant.

[BD80]

Are you expecting a vigil?

;)


If you are waiting for that would that require a vigil vigil?

It makes him vigil-antsy

[Edouble]

I don't disagree, but he's not going to do much physical transforming in the next 3 months, if anything it'll probably be hard to keep weight on, so I think the solution is playing time which will give him the reps to better understand how to use his tools to be effective - speed over brawn, mind over matter, etc. Brandon is a string bean and he's come a long way based on reps, Chase needs to do the same.



Sure, it would be great if he had an extra 40 pounds of muscle, but for the most part he isn't drastically behind other post players his age. There aren't many Okafors out there, and the ones that are will abuse you regardless of your body mass index

Just want to add that there is a common misunderstanding that I am seeing here that total muscle = strength.

It is possible, through strength training, to gain a lot of strength without adding much bodyweight (extra pounds of muscle).

The nervous system and a well developed core are just as important to increasing overall strength in the major lifts as the poundage of muscle on the frame. This is why you have sub-200 lb men that can deadlift 450-500 lbs.

The Olympic lifts, snatch and clean and jerk, are more reliant on speed and technique than they are muscle.

Depending on what he has done in high school, Chase could get a lot stronger in 3 months, even without adding much muscle.

[MChambers]

reminds me that I miss Greybeard!

[flyingdutchdevil]

What does it mean that Amile is getting his cast taken off December 26? Does it mean that they take it off, assess, and then put on a new one? Or does it mean that it comes off and Amile wears a hard boot? Also, what is a ranged timeframe from cast-off to exercising to full-contact practices? And what is the risk or re-injury?

Thanks in advanced!

Get well fast Amile!!!

[devildeac]

What does it mean that Amile is getting his cast taken off December 26? Does it mean that they take it off, assess, and then put on a new one? Or does it mean that it comes off and Amile wears a hard boot? Also, what is a ranged timeframe from cast-off to exercising to full-contact practices? And what is the risk or re-injury?

Thanks in advanced!

Get well fast Amile!!!

Billy posts here occasionally and usually comes out of the operating room when we have injuries like this so let's call him out tonight or over the weekend and see what he thinks. I'm not touching this one:o.

[mattman91]

Billy posts here occasionally and usually comes out of the operating room when we have injuries like this so let's call him out tonight or over the weekend and see what he thinks. I'm not touching this one:o.

Stand by, we made need you to revitalize our hearts depending on how bad the news is.

[Indoor66]

Stand by, we made need you to revitalize our hearts depending on how bad the news is.

I am sure that DD is standing by with greased paddles....:cool:

[devildeac]

I am sure that DD is standing by with greased paddles...:cool:



http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Defibrillator

[mattman91]

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Defibrillator

If I order one on Amazon, Will it be here by 12/26? Where is our resident UPS driver? :D

[left_hook_lacey]

reminds me that I miss Greybeard!

I was wondering what happened to him.

[weezie]

I am sure that DD is standing by with greased paddles...:cool:

Wait a minute...wouldn't greasing the paddles start a fire? It's a gel, right DD? :D

[Kfanarmy]

I'm going to guess Amile comes back against ND on the 16th of January. (no particular reason, just my guess...about a month, home game...)


As for CJ, on top of getting increased minutes all of a sudden, he probably felt like he needed to replace Amile's offensive and defensive contributions. We could probably have a bit more empathy for the pressure that might put on the freshman and how it might impact his game. I think he will settle down quickly and be a good contributor while Amile is out.

[Troublemaker]

What does it mean that Amile is getting his cast taken off December 26? Does it mean that they take it off, assess, and then put on a new one? Or does it mean that it comes off and Amile wears a hard boot? Also, what is a ranged timeframe from cast-off to exercising to full-contact practices? And what is the risk or re-injury?

SCMatt33 had a great post about timeframes upthread:


I don't know where people are getting these time-frames. Coach K was pretty forthright in the presser about what the injury is, though he didn't identify a specific bone, which is a key piece of information. He was very clear that a) surgery is not required and b) the cast will come off after Christmas and he will go into a boot, implying that the hard cast is only a precaution for when he goes home for the holiday. The problem with foot fractures is that from everything I have read or been told by medical experts (of which I'm certainly not one), depending on the bone and how the person heals, the timelines are very inexact. A bone could heal in as little as 4 weeks or as many as 12. It's not something that is really known for sure until a few weeks in when the healing can be evaluated by follow up x-rays. I would imagine that most of the timeframes people are getting are based on normal timetables for fractures, but again, feet can be very tricky to predict and the timeline likely needs to be expanded on both the short and the long end.

[oldnavy]

Wait a minute...wouldn't greasing the paddles start a fire? It's a gel, right DD? :D

A lot of public places have AED's available.... maybe you can get the news at the Mall with a friend? ;);)

[budwom]

I suspect there could be quite a bit more clarity when the cast comes off next week and the progress has been assessed.

[Indoor66]

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Defibrillator

I'm good at hammering the chest. The rest, not so much. :cool:

[devildeac]

Wait a minute...wouldn't greasing the paddles start a fire? It's a gel, right DD? :D

It is a gel. I knew what Indoor meant and didn't want to :o him.

;)

[billy]

Billy posts here occasionally and usually comes out of the operating room when we have injuries like this so let's call him out tonight or over the weekend and see what he thinks. I'm not touching this one:o.

Not enough info to go on with this one - my understanding (I think from coach K's postgame) is that cast comes off then he goes into a boot. Boot comes off for rehab.

Injury-wise, this could mean anything other than an unstable fracture or Lis-Franc injury. Haven't seen enough to speculate on the injury nature itself. I was surprised to see him in a cast - makes cardio a lot more difficult.

Hope all's well in Raleigh-wood, DD!

[devildeac]

Not enough info to go on with this one - my understanding (I think from coach K's postgame) is that cast comes off then he goes into a boot. Boot comes off for rehab.

Injury-wise, this could mean anything other than an unstable fracture or Lis-Franc injury. Haven't seen enough to speculate on the injury nature itself. I was surprised to see him in a cast - makes cardio a lot more difficult.

Hope all's well in Raleigh-wood, DD!

Thanks for responding. Our daughter had a cheering/tumbling-related Lis-franc injury and took 90 D or so to have boot/surgery/cast/boot/pin removal surgery/rehab, or something like that.

Raleighwood is good. Could have a beer anytime to discuss further;).

[Indoor66]

It is a gel. I knew what Indoor meant and didn't want to :o him.

;)

I know the term but grease has more panache than gel! :cool:

[weezie]

Indeed...grease is the word.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Indeed...grease is the word.

I thought bird is the word.

[jimsumner]

I thought bird is the word.

The word is love.

[devildeac]

The word is love.

She Loves You.

Yea

Yea

Yea

[DukieInKansas]

Indeed...grease is the word.

is the word that you heard
It's got a groove, it's got a meaning
Grease is the time, is the place, is the motion
Grease is the way we are feeling

[Henderson]

The word is :cool::confused::eek::rolleyes:

Know what I'm sayin'?

[devildeac]

I'll see your DBR emoticons and raise you :5795579657975798

Hey, whaddaya expect this weekend?

[lotusland]

Pretty sure the word is thunderbird

[BlueTeuf]

Pretty sure the word is thunderbird

Half the price?

[Henderson]

I'll see your DBR emoticons and raise you :5795579657975798

Hey, whaddaya expect this weekend?

Long lines for Star Wars and a surging popularity of Star Wars emojis.

Duke by 11 today. I sense some focus.

My Vikings lose to the Bears. Just because they keep doing me dirty like that. Since 1969-70.

[wsb3]

Don't know how much stock to place in it but I did see the scrolling tape during the game say Amile would be out at least one month. Maybe early Feb.. Maybe in time for the evil empire..

[SCMatt33]

Well he can't come back soon enough, that's for sure. Didn't see it posted yet, but Jeff Goodman during the game reported that Coach K told him that Amile would be out "at least a month, maybe two" there was no word in there about whether that timetable refers to from today or from the time of the injury.

[kAzE]

Well he can't come back soon enough, that's for sure. Didn't see it posted yet, but Jeff Goodman during the game reported that Coach K told him that Amile would be out "at least a month, maybe two" there was no word in there about whether that timetable refers to from today or from the time of the injury.

1 month seems crazy early for a foot fracture, so I'd probably expect 8 weeks from the initial injury. I'd rather Amile get back close to 100% before he plays rather than throwing him out there before he's ready and possibly re-aggravating the injury.

[davekay1971]

1 month seems crazy early for a foot fracture, so I'd probably expect 8 weeks from the initial injury. I'd rather Amile get back close to 100% before he plays rather than throwing him out there before he's ready and possibly re-aggravating the injury.

The end part of the K coach was something along the lines of, "Probably on the longer end" of the 1-2 month spectrum.

Having Amile back even by mid-February, with a month of regular season to get himself back into playing shape and get the team used to playing with him in the lineup, will be wonderful.

Until then, I think Lebron should be suspended from the NBA for taking out Jason Day's wife, he should put on one of those Mission Impossible masks, and he should become a walkon for the Blue Devils until Amile returns and James get's reinstated in the League, miraculously at the exact same time.

[SCMatt33]

1 month seems crazy early for a foot fracture, so I'd probably expect 8 weeks from the initial injury. I'd rather Amile get back close to 100% before he plays rather than throwing him out there before he's ready and possibly re-aggravating the injury.

It's not necessarily that crazy. I don't expect it, but we know nothing about what bone broke, which is a vital piece of information. We also don't know how bad the break is, other than its not bad enough to require surgery. It can definitely happen. Julian Edelman broke a bone in his foot on November 15, and started practicing again December 11. He's probably still not going to play this week, but I bet he would if the game was more important. I don't expect Jefferson to be back that soon, but it certainly wouldn't be "crazy early" if he did.

[Henderson]

There are 26 bones in each foot structure.* Each can be injured in any number of ways and to any degree of severity. And different people heal at different rates.

So I'd say that any speculation about Amile's situation or conjecture about a return date -- given what has been released -- is pretty far out there.





*I had to look that part up. But isn't it interesting that our two foot structures have the same number of bones as a standard pack of playing cards?

[DevilWearsPrada]

Dear Santa,

Please keep our mens team healthy and safe! And please, no more Foot Injuries!!!! Heal quickly and healthy, Amile!

Thank you Santa!

Love,
DWP:)

[Green Wave Dukie]

Okay, enough already. Back to Duke basketball.

We have a star senior captain hurt and no one is coming up with any serious suggestions on what we need to be planning for. What do you guys suggest, we just deal with the hand we have been dealt?

[NashvilleDevil]

Okay, enough already. Back to Duke basketball.

We have a star senior captain hurt and no one is coming up with any serious suggestions on what we need to be planning for. What do you guys suggest, we just deal with the hand we have been dealt?

I'm planning for Christmas. With two kids under 7 it's been tough.

[Jarhead]

Okay, enough already. Back to Duke basketball.

We have a star senior captain hurt and no one is coming up with any serious suggestions on what we need to be planning for. What do you guys suggest, we just deal with the hand we have been dealt?

Heck, I don't have a clue. Let's see what Coach K and his staff do. I'd bet that they find something to help a bit, but maybe they can't perform miracles.

[CoachJ10]

Question for those who have seen practice...what is the readiness level of Vrank the Tank to contribute in Amile's absence?

[uh_no]

Question for those who have seen practice...what is the readiness level of Vrank the Tank to contribute in Amile's absence?

now that we've gone 2 game without seeing him, i'm going to guess with a relatively high level of confidence that the answer to your question is "not ready."

Judging by what we've seen from chase, if vrank was within a shouting distance of being ready to contribute, we'd have seen him.

[CameronBornAndBred]

now that we've gone 2 game without seeing him, i'm going to guess with a relatively high level of confidence that the answer to your question is "not ready."

Judging by what we've seen from chase, if vrank was within a shouting distance of being ready to contribute, we'd have seen him.
I'm guessing that applies to everyone on the bench. I don't remember seeing such a large number of able bodied players "not ready" to contribute. Seeing as how we thin we are as a squad, they must REALLY be not ready. Bizarre and disheartening. Always optimistic that someone figures something out and steps up, though!

[Henderson]

Was there a big chunk of this thread deleted?

[Reddevil]

I wonder if we will see more zone for a while like we did in the beginning of the season. Losing a captain means losing a critical voice especially on defense. Amile is such a good defender in his own right, and losing his leadership and communication on the floor exacerbates the situation. Maybe they need to learn how to walk before they can run all over again. Utah was killing then inside, not just with their bigs, but running to the rim at will. They did not take advantage to the extent that they could have in my opinion, and others will have learned from that game tape. The fundamentals of man to man defense with Amile back there were fairly accomplished, but now it is lacking based on what I think I saw in MSG. A little more zone might help again until they get back up to speed. It also may help protect Marshall from foul trouble. Anyway, I just miss watching Amile play. He is one of those guys where good things happen when he is out there. He gets it. The team has not yet adjusted to the loss. Hopefully they will be stronger for it when he comes back. They young guys are getting better and better. This journey is going to be very interesting.

[sagegrouse]

Was there a big chunk of this thread deleted?

Not deleted -- transported. (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?37085-Bad-Card-Puns-from-Amile-thread)

[kAzE]

I wonder if we will see more zone for a while like we did in the beginning of the season. Losing a captain means losing a critical voice especially on defense. Amile is such a good defender in his own right, and losing his leadership and communication on the floor exacerbates the situation. Maybe they need to learn how to walk before they can run all over again. Utah was killing then inside, not just with their bigs, but running to the rim at will. They did not take advantage to the extent that they could have in my opinion, and others will have learned from that game tape. The fundamentals of man to man defense with Amile back there were fairly accomplished, but now it is lacking based on what I think I saw in MSG. A little more zone might help again until they get back up to speed. It also may help protect Marshall from foul trouble. Anyway, I just miss watching Amile play. He is one of those guys where good things happen when he is out there. He gets it. The team has not yet adjusted to the loss. Hopefully they will be stronger for it when he comes back. They young guys are getting better and better. This journey is going to be very interesting.

I don't think we can play the zone nearly as effectively without Amile, he was the low "1" in the 1-3-1, and our guards don't have the length to really bother people in a 2-3. Amile's combination of length and quickness can't be replaced. Our attempt to use the 1-3-1 zone absolutely got us killed early in the Utah game. They picked us apart with some pretty simple passes on the interior. I think our best option is still M2M. What we need is for Marshall Plumlee to play like he needs to stay on the floor. He has to contest shots without fouling and secure the defensive glass. It's a lot to ask, but until another big steps up, we will be relying heavily on Marshall for defense and rebounding. We need to trick him into thinking that we're playing UK every game for the rest of the season. We need the Marshall from that game.

[JPtheGame]

Feels a little bit like 11-12. Yes that team had Kelly (who we lost late to yet another foot injury) but wins that year usually came down to whether or not Duke shot it well. When Rivers and Seth hit 3's we could beat anyone (even unc at unc) but when we didnt hit from deep, it was a lot of missed jumpers and a very frustrating experience.
We may never be a great defensive team given the current roster but if we can do a serviceable job on that end and spread people out and hit shots on the other end, we should get our share of wins. Our prospects come March would be limited but there a few games between now and then.

[kAzE]

Feels a little bit like 11-12. Yes that team had Kelly (who we lost late to yet another foot injury) but wins that year usually came down to whether or not Duke shot it well. When Rivers and Seth hit 3's we could beat anyone (even unc at unc) but when we didnt hit from deep, it was a lot of missed jumpers and a very frustrating experience.
We may never be a great defensive team given the current roster but if we can do a serviceable job on that end and spread people out and hit shots on the other end, we should get our share of wins. Our prospects come March would be limited but there a few games between now and then.

It's not that bad. We have way more versatility on offense than that year. Most of our scoring threats can score in the paint as well as from outside. Seth Curry and Austin Rivers were very questionable finishing inside, and while we didn't do that well against Utah, I think Brandon, Luke, and Grayson are all capable in the paint and are much better at getting to the foul line as well. We are going to rely heavily on our perimeter players to score, but it's not going to be live or die by the 3.

[vick]

It's not that bad. We have way more versatility on offense than that year. Most of our scoring threats can score in the paint as well as from outside. Seth Curry and Austin Rivers were very questionable finishing inside, and while we didn't do that well against Utah, I think Brandon, Luke, and Grayson are all capable in the paint and are much better at getting to the foul line as well. We are going to rely heavily on our perimeter players to score, but it's not going to be live or die by the 3.

I don't know. We ought to be careful about focusing too much on how the '12 team finished the season. Keep in mind, they went 13-3 in the ACC and had an all-ACC center (Mason). We're not at all likely to have an all-ACC caliber big man this year without Amile, so that's one major hit to versatility. I'm not sure I agree with your point about drawing fouls either. For the year, here are the FTA/FGA ratios for the players you mentioned:

'12 Curry: 35%
'12 Rivers: 46%

'16 Ingram: 40%
'16 Kennard: 41%
'16 Allen: 48%

Maybe '16 is a little better there, but it's pretty marginal in my eyes. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we're really going to miss Amile on offense as well as on defense.

[kAzE]

I don't know. We ought to be careful about focusing too much on how the '12 team finished the season. Keep in mind, they went 13-3 in the ACC and had an all-ACC center (Mason). We're not at all likely to have an all-ACC caliber big man this year without Amile, so that's one major hit to versatility. I'm not sure I agree with your point about drawing fouls either. For the year, here are the FTA/FGA ratios for the players you mentioned:

'12 Curry: 35%
'12 Rivers: 46%

'16 Ingram: 40%
'16 Kennard: 41%
'16 Allen: 48%

Maybe '16 is a little better there, but it's pretty marginal in my eyes. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we're really going to miss Amile on offense as well as on defense.

Well, if you're going to post stats, don't just look at one stat.

2012-13
Austin Rivers: 43.3% overall, 36.5% 3FG, 47.7% 2FG, 65.8% FT, 3.9 made FTs per game
Seth Curry: 42.0% overall, 38.3% 3FG, 45.6% 2FG, 87.3% FT, 3.5 made FTs per game

2015-16
Grayson Allen: 46.3% overall, 41.2% 3FG, 49.0% 2FG, 86.1% FT, 5.6 made FTs per game
Brandon Ingram: 46.8% overall, 35.6% 3FG, 53.1% 2FG, 60.0% FT, 4.5 made FTs per game


My assumption that Grayson and Brandon are better at finishing inside were correct, if you look at the 2FG%. Even with Grayson's awful performance vs Utah due to illness, he's still a significantly better finisher in the paint than Curry or Rivers were in 2012-13.

2.7 more made free throws per game from your top 2 perimeter scorers is also a huge difference. Grayson and Brandon are better at getting and taking advantage of free throw opportunities. There's not much room for debate there. Yes, I'm focusing on the MADE attempts, because those are the only ones that matter. Austin Rivers was a downright awful free throw shooter for a guard.

Lastly, our #3 and #4 perimeter scoring options are MUCH better than they were in 2012-13 (without Ryan Kelly). Matt Jones and Luke Kennard are probably more reliable than Andre Dawkins/Quinn Cook/Tyler Thornton from that year. For example, our #3 perimeter scorer that year, Andre Dawkins, averaged 1.0 made free throws per game. Luke Kennard almost got half of Andre's number of makes that year in the Utah game alone. True, Marshall is not his older brother, but we're still much better off offensively.

[szstark]

I don't think we can play the zone nearly as effectively without Amile, he was the low "1" in the 1-3-1, and our guards don't have the length to really bother people in a 2-3. Amile's combination of length and quickness can't be replaced. Our attempt to use the 1-3-1 zone absolutely got us killed early in the Utah game. They picked us apart with some pretty simple passes on the interior. I think our best option is still M2M. What we need is for Marshall Plumlee to play like he needs to stay on the floor. He has to contest shots without fouling and secure the defensive glass. It's a lot to ask, but until another big steps up, we will be relying heavily on Marshall for defense and rebounding. We need to trick him into thinking that we're playing UK every game for the rest of the season. We need the Marshall from that game.

Your points are still valid, but Matt Jones was the low "1" in the 1-3-1.

[subzero02]

Well, if you're going to post stats, don't just look at one stat.

2012-13
Austin Rivers: 43.3% overall, 36.5% 3FG, 47.7% 2FG, 65.8% FT, 3.9 made FTs per game
Seth Curry: 42.0% overall, 38.3% 3FG, 45.6% 2FG, 87.3% FT, 3.5 made FTs per game

2015-16
Grayson Allen: 46.3% overall, 41.2% 3FG, 49.0% 2FG, 86.1% FT, 5.6 made FTs per game
Brandon Ingram: 46.8% overall, 35.6% 3FG, 53.1% 2FG, 60.0% FT, 4.5 made FTs per game


My assumption that Grayson and Brandon are better at finishing inside were correct, if you look at the 2FG%. Even with Grayson's awful performance vs Utah due to illness, he's still a significantly better finisher in the paint than Curry or Rivers were in 2012-13.

2.7 more made free throws per game from your top 2 perimeter scorers is also a huge difference. Grayson and Brandon are better at getting and taking advantage of free throw opportunities. There's not much room for debate there. Yes, I'm focusing on the MADE attempts, because those are the only ones that matter. Austin Rivers was a downright awful free throw shooter for a guard.

Lastly, our #3 and #4 perimeter scoring options are MUCH better than they were in 2012-13 (without Ryan Kelly). Matt Jones and Luke Kennard are probably more reliable than Andre Dawkins/Quinn Cook/Tyler Thornton from that year. For example, our #3 perimeter scorer that year, Andre Dawkins, averaged 1.0 made free throws per game. Luke Kennard almost got half of Andre's number of makes that year in the Utah game alone. True, Marshall is not his older brother, but we're still much better off offensively.

Why didn't you include Luke's stats in your analysis?

[vick]

Well, if you're going to post stats, don't just look at one stat.

2012-13
Austin Rivers: 43.3% overall, 36.5% 3FG, 47.7% 2FG, 65.8% FT, 3.9 made FTs per game
Seth Curry: 42.0% overall, 38.3% 3FG, 45.6% 2FG, 87.3% FT, 3.5 made FTs per game

2015-16
Grayson Allen: 46.3% overall, 41.2% 3FG, 49.0% 2FG, 86.1% FT, 5.6 made FTs per game
Brandon Ingram: 46.8% overall, 35.6% 3FG, 53.1% 2FG, 60.0% FT, 4.5 made FTs per game


My assumption that Grayson and Brandon are better at finishing inside were correct, if you look at the 2FG%. Even with Grayson's awful performance vs Utah due to illness, he's still a significantly better finisher in the paint than Curry or Rivers were in 2012-13.

2.7 more made free throws per game from your top 2 perimeter scorers is also a huge difference. Grayson and Brandon are better at getting and taking advantage of free throw opportunities. There's not much room for debate there. Yes, I'm focusing on the MADE attempts, because those are the only ones that matter. Austin Rivers was a downright awful free throw shooter for a guard.

Lastly, our #3 and #4 perimeter scoring options are MUCH better than they were in 2012-13 (without Ryan Kelly). Matt Jones and Luke Kennard are probably more reliable than Andre Dawkins/Quinn Cook/Tyler Thornton from that year. For example, our #3 perimeter scorer that year, Andre Dawkins, averaged 1.0 made free throws per game. Luke Kennard almost got half of Andre's number of makes that year in the Utah game alone. True, Marshall is not his older brother, but we're still much better off offensively.

Hey I just went with the stat most closely tied to what you were saying, "getting to the foul line." I agree with you that Rivers' poor free throw shooting is a big difference. Certainly, Grayson has been a much better player this year than Rivers was in '12. I do think you're understating the difference in interior quality though. The difference in offensive skill between even junior-year Mason and Marshall is substantial.

[kAzE]

Why didn't you include Luke's stats in your analysis?

I just went with the top 2 from each team because it took a long time to transcribe those stats and I was at work . . . haha. But just the fact that there is another good scorer to choose from on this team adds to my point. And Luke isn't even the #3 guy, it's Matt.


Hey I just went with the stat most closely tied to what you were saying, "getting to the foul line." I agree with you that Rivers' poor free throw shooting is a big difference. Certainly, Grayson has been a much better player this year than Rivers was in '12. I do think you're understating the difference in interior quality though. The difference in offensive skill between even junior-year Mason and Marshall is substantial.

You're right, Not only did we have Mason, but we also had Miles that year, meaning our depth up front was significantly better, even with the loss of Ryan. However, I think offensively, we, should still be elite. With Brandon at the 4, we are very tough team to defend, and in my opinion, still one the best offensive teams in the country. Defensively, we haven't learned how to play without Amile yet, and it's going to take time for both players and coaches to adjust to this new team.

However, I'm not giving up on the chance that Chase will be ready for 15 minutes a game by the middle of next month. There's just no way he's going to keep playing this poorly, and I don't see us having much success against ACC teams with Brandon at the 5. If he can make enough improvement to hold us over until Amile returns, we'll be in even better shape than we were prior to the injury come tournament time. We just need everyone else to stay healthy. We had 8 last year, right now all we have is 6. Yikes.

[lotusland]

It's not that bad. We have way more versatility on offense than that year. Most of our scoring threats can score in the paint as well as from outside. Seth Curry and Austin Rivers were very questionable finishing inside, and while we didn't do that well against Utah, I think Brandon, Luke, and Grayson are all capable in the paint and are much better at getting to the foul line as well. We are going to rely heavily on our perimeter players to score, but it's not going to be live or die by the 3.

If finishing means scoring in the lane then AR did quite a lot of that. Made some ill advised attempts and got blocked some but you could say the same about Grayson Allen. To me, Rivers biggest offensive deficiency was passing and court vision. Scoring inside and out was not a problem.

[porkpa]

I'm sure that this has been asked and probably answered numerous times. But I haven't seem it, so here goes.
It seems that Duke has had an inordinate number of foot injuries. Maybe it hasn't actually been that many, but just seems so because it has affected high profile players.
Have any studies been done that show what these injuries may have in common? Is there a way that they can be prevented? I'm thinking specifically about the footwear, but perhaps its something that I haven't given any thought to. I just don't know.
Its likely just happenstance, but it sure has hurt us through the years.

[jv001]

I'm sure that this has been asked and probably answered numerous times. But I haven't seem it, so here goes.
It seems that Duke has had an inordinate number of foot injuries. Maybe it hasn't actually been that many, but just seems so because it has affected high profile players.
Have any studies been done that show what these injuries may have in common? Is there a way that they can be prevented? I'm thinking specifically about the footwear, but perhaps its something that I haven't given any thought to. I just don't know.
Its likely just happenstance, but it sure has hurt us through the years.

I've wondered the same thing over the last few years, but Amile's injury came on a play in practice where he was going to the floor for a loose ball. At least I think I read that. It seems to me that a lot of Duke's foot injuries have come in games, where the Duke player comes down on an opponent's foot. GoDuke!

[MChambers]

Years ago, the Duke medical staff came up with a way to scan players' feet to identify those at risk for stress fractures, I think. Daniel Ewing played a season with a special orthotic in his shoe, to deal with a balky foot.

I have no idea if Duke has more foot issues than other schools, but there are a lot of foot injuries in basketball generally. UNC has had their share over the years. Maybe it is a Research Triangle phenomenon.

[Ichabod Drain]

So the word a couple weeks ago was that Amile was going to get his cast off and be re-evaluated on the 26th. Will be interesting to see what form of footwear he will be wearing tonight. Hard cast, walking boot, Jimmy Choo stilletos....

[flyingdutchdevil]

So the word a couple weeks ago was that Amile was going to get his cast off and be re-evaluated on the 26th. Will be interesting to see what form of footwear he will be wearing tonight. Hard cast, walking boot, Jimmy Choo stilletos...

Can't be the jimmy choos. They have poor support on the ankles. Maybe Christian louboutin?

[-jk]

Amile is in a plastic boot and on crutches...

-jk

[DU82]

Amile is in a plastic boot and on crutches...

-jk

And here I was about to ask you about that!

[Neals384]

And here I was about to ask you about that!

ESPN just put up a graphic: "out for the season". Has this been announced and I just missed it?

OK, espn just backpedaled on that. Whew!

[scheyerismyhero]

I logged in just to say the same thing...hopefully, just an overzealous espn producer.