Texas 84, unc 82

[Bluedevil114]

Buzzer beater loss to Texas. My Saturday just got better.

[-jk]

heh...

-jk

[westwall]

Buzzer beater loss to Texas. My Saturday just got better.

Much, MUCH better!

[subzero02]

I didn't see a conclusive view of the last shot but regardless...GTHC!!!

[cspan37421]

I think I speak for nearly all of us here in saying that this soul-crushing loss couldn't have happened to a more deserving team.

[gocanes0506]

Awesome. Shaka has them going in a decent direction

[hudlow]

Allow me this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbjiKIKzY3c

[Indoor66]

It was good in real time and good in replay. Suck it up, cheaters.

[SCMatt33]

Btw, for anyone who is worried about potential controversy over the light coming on with .1 still on the clock, the rules are pretty clear on the issue.


Art. 2. Each period shall end when the red light or LED lights have become activated. When the light fails to operate or is not visible or is not present, each period shall end with the sounding of the game-clock horn

a. In games with a 10th-of-a-second game clock display and where an official courtside monitor is used, the reading of zeros on the game clock is to be used to determine whether a try for goal occurred before or after the expiration of time in any period. When the game clock is not visible, the officials shall verify the original call with the use of the red/ LED light(s). When the red/LED light(s) are not visible, the sounding of the game-clock horn shall be used? When definitive information is unattainable with the use of the monitor, the original call stands

So while the light determines the end of a game, during a review of a shot, the clock will take precedence as long as it's visible in the replay and it has tenths of a second. I think is was pretty clearly good going by the clock and not the light, though it was really close. Texas literally won by a fingernail.

On another note, I wonder what UNC's excuse will be since Paige was healthy and in the game.

[Saratoga2]

With Jay boosting UNC as the best team in the country, Texas made it clear that wasn't true. UNC was at full strength so no excuses.

However, on the subject of how Duke would deal with either of these teams, we clearly have a weak spot against the size that both teams could throw at us. MP3 would have issues defending and rebounding for many minutes and Amile is good but I believe we need more competitive bodies. There is a clear need to get Chase, Sean and/or Vrank more up to speed to give us backup minutes. I wouldn't use Brandon inside against this kind of punishing size.

[moonpie23]

heels looked good. was there a controversy?

[Henderson]

It'll be interesting to see what the AP voters do with this. UNC-CH was their #3 team this week. But there is no team with two losses higher than #20.

[NYBri]

9f! 9f!

[Indoor66]

It'll be interesting to see what the AP voters do with this. UNC-CH was their #3 team this week. But there is no team with two losses higher than #20.

Especially since both unCheat losses came against unranked teams. The crowd from the Dump are about on a par with last year.

[Troublemaker]

That was a great college basketball game that I'm glad I watched. It was a great enough game that were I UNC, I wouldn't feel TOO bad about losing. To a certain extent, Texas was just playing out of their minds on their homecourt. I don't think this game says too much about UNC's chances going forward, but I'm certainly thrilled with the final outcome.


With Jay boosting UNC as the best team in the country, Texas made it clear that wasn't true. UNC was at full strength so no excuses.

They could still be the best team, but it's a meaningless appellation at this point in the season. There's been no separation at the top of college basketball so far, so it's really like a statistical tie between 10 teams for the title of "best team."



However, on the subject of how Duke would deal with either of these teams, we clearly have a weak spot against the size that both teams could throw at us. MP3 would have issues defending and rebounding for many minutes and Amile is good but I believe we need more competitive bodies. There is a clear need to get Chase, Sean and/or Vrank more up to speed to give us backup minutes. I wouldn't use Brandon inside against this kind of punishing size.

I more or less agree with this. Both of these teams might be teams that Duke would be better-served playing 2 bigs against.

[NashvilleDevil]

With Jay boosting UNC as the best team in the country, Texas made it clear that wasn't true. UNC was at full strength so no excuses.

However, on the subject of how Duke would deal with either of these teams, we clearly have a weak spot against the size that both teams could throw at us. MP3 would have issues defending and rebounding for many minutes and Amile is good but I believe we need more competitive bodies. There is a clear need to get Chase, Sean and/or Vrank more up to speed to give us backup minutes. I wouldn't use Brandon inside against this kind of punishing size.

How will they deal with Duke? Just curious because when Duke gets rolling they will be a matchup nightmare for teams.

[weezie]

...were I UNC, I wouldn't feel TOO bad about losing...

What?! Thank your lucky Blue Devil stars that you feel fine! They need to feel real bad, and 'what the what' Shaka Smart, just be pleased he took the job before holes could deep six Roy and hire the Smartster instead.

[kmspeaks]

On another note, I wonder what UNC's excuse will be since Paige was healthy and in the game.

Andy Katz and the Sports Center guys are trying to give them one saying Paige got pushed and might have recovered to challenge the shot. I can't tell if he got pushed by Lammert or his own guy, but either way I don't see how he gets around 2 bodies to get out and challenge the shot by Felix.

[Edouble]

With Jay boosting UNC as the best team in the country, Texas made it clear that wasn't true. UNC was at full strength so no excuses.

Jay who?

[Channing]

Andy Katz and the Sports Center guys are trying to give them one saying Paige got pushed and might have recovered to challenge the shot. I can't tell if he got pushed by Lammert or his own guy, but either way I don't see how he gets around 2 bodies to get out and challenge the shot by Felix.

that clip is all over Twitter right now. Clearly Paige got destroyed; but it isn't clear to me whether he was hit by Lammert, Johnson, or both. It does look like Johnson extends his arms at the point of collision with Paige.

[moonpie23]

ha. Paige did get pushed, but that doesn't mean they win the game.

that's the 2nd game the holes have lost in the last week on bad calls. lol

[tbyers11]

Andy Katz and the Sports Center guys are trying to give them one saying Paige got pushed and might have recovered to challenge the shot. I can't tell if he got pushed by Lammert or his own guy, but either way I don't see how he gets around 2 bodies to get out and challenge the shot by Felix.

Paige did get hit by somebody not sure who. But I agree that there is no way he gets out to challenge the shot by Felix. He had already chosen (and rightfully so, IMO) to help block out Lammert.

[fidel]

ha. Paige did get pushed, but that doesn't mean they win the game.

that's the 2nd game the holes have lost in the last week on bad calls. lol

Paige was fouled, before the shot. I hate even the heels to lose to such a blown call.

[-jk]

Paige was fouled, before the shot. I hate even the heels to lose to such a blown call.

Who pushed him? That's the $64 question. I saw a teammate and an opponent both hit him at about the same time. Not sure what to call.

-jk

[ancienteagle]

Cry "Havoc!", and let slip the Longhorns of war.
Today we are all Texas fans.

[SCMatt33]

ha. Paige did get pushed, but that doesn't mean they win the game.

that's the 2nd game the holes have lost in the last week on bad calls. lol

Not sure if it should have been called, but had they called it, they almost certainly would have won, as the ball was loose at the time so Paige would be shooting two with less than 2 seconds left.

[NancyCarol]

Cry "Havoc!", and let slip the Longhorns of war.
Today we are all Texas fans.

Even we Aggies. GTHCGTH, It was a superb game though. Well played on both sides. Dancing in the streets of Austin tonight.

[moonpie23]

now that i look at it full screen, it was his team mate that knocked him down trying to block out the texas guy........brice?

but the UNC guy definitely put the force into knocking paige down...

[CameronBlue]

Not sure if it should have been called, but had they called it, they almost certainly would have won, as the ball was loose at the time so Paige would be shooting two with less than 2 seconds left.

What'd the Russian judge give him? Paige took a dive..though clearly there was contact.

[gurufrisbee]

There was no way that call was going to happen unless the game was in Chapel Hill. And even then it would be unlikely. Looked mostly like a flop by Paige anyways.

NC loses. Again. To an unranked team.

Do they offer any fake classes there on how to spell "overrated"?

[devildeac]

Jay who?

No, Jayhawk. No chalk. No rock. Or, you can leave it to Beaver. Oops, sorry, wrong thread:o.

[moonpie23]

jay bilas gonna go all nancy grace if thor drops the hammer

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

My takes:

- Paige got popped by his teammate, no foul
- Shot was in his hands on the buzzer, should have gone to OT
- Bigger deal for Texas than UNC. Shaka will be pushing Kansas in a few years.

[norduck]

now that i look at it full screen, it was his team mate that knocked him down trying to block out the texas guy...brice?

but the UNC guy definitely put the force into knocking paige down...

Agree, # 11 whoever that is. Not for sure, but appeared to be the same player that goal tended an earlier shot by Texas in the 2nd half which wasn't called and ESPN chose not to show a replay of it.

[OZ]

Paige was fouled, before the shot. I hate even the heels to lose to such a blown call.


Rule 1995.76 article I. afam:

"If a call is made, that results in a Tar Heel loss, it is not a 'blown' call (and it is not reviewable).

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Texas shot 50% on 3's(12-24) ...most contested, and out scored the Heels 21 to 7 on second chance points.

They played really well. Felix was unconscious and Ridley was a beast. Only Joel James could match his size and muscle, which he did pretty well when he was in.

Lack of strength and willingness to mix it up inside from Meeks, Johnson and Jackson allowed Texas to kill them on the boards. That's usually UNC's strength with their length and quickness. They play hard, but tonight they needed to box out strong and just didn't have that toughness to do it against a Texas team attacking the rim and posting up strong. It's a recurring problem that just is and has been the past few seasons. The Heels have finesse/skilled big men, but they are hardly bruisers like Ridley or as tough as guys like Lammert. Muscle, want to, won out tonight.

Paige was hammered by Lammert on that last play, but that's never gonna be called at the buzzer, especially on the road. Paige gambled to try and box out down low on Lammert as he crashed the board, but it was fortunate for Texas the miss kicked long right to their best shooter, squared up and wide open at the buzzer.
Stuff happens.

UNC's defense has been looking very good, and it wasn't bad tonight, but it was out of sync much of this game. I credit that to Ridley creating so much interior havoc.

All in all, the positive is it still took a buzzer beater by a good team playing very well to take them out on the road.

Roy took on a tough schedule to get this team ready for a championship run. We'll see if it pays off, there's a long way to go.

[Olympic Fan]

Paige was hammered by Lammert on that last play, but that's never gonna be called at the buzzer, especially on the road. Paige gambled to try and box out down low on Lammert as he crashed the board.

I'm sure as a UNC fan you see it that way, but the more I watch the replays of the final sequence, the more obvious it is that Paige got hammered by Brice Johnson, not Lambert.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I'm sure as a UNC fan you see it that way, but the more I watch the replays of the final sequence, the more obvious it is that Paige got hammered by Brice Johnson, not Lambert.


Either way, it really didn't matter... with the exception that maybe when Brice sees the play on tape he'll realize if he would have been in proper position to block out Lammert in the first place, maybe Paige doesn't have to drop down and leave his man...

[Devilwin]

I hate to see anyone lose on a blown call, even them. There's been too much official's incompetence lately. I would feel a bit for them if they hadn't talked so much trash after we screamed "foul" after the Miami game. Take your medicine Tar Holes.

[Henderson]

If a team takes care of business earlier in the game, it needn't worry about the vagaries of last-second officiating.

UNC-CH failed to take care of business. They lose. So sad.

Next!

[Indoor66]

If a team takes care of business earlier in the game, it needn't worry about the vagaries of last-second officiating.

UNC-CH failed to take care of business. They lose. So sad.

Next!

I agree with everything in your post except the highlighted! :cool:

[fidel]

Who pushed him? That's the $64 question. I saw a teammate and an opponent both hit him at about the same time. Not sure what to call.

-jk

The point is they didn't even look at it. Commentators didn't mention it. It surely seemed review worthy.

[Saratoga2]

Not sure if it should have been called, but had they called it, they almost certainly would have won, as the ball was loose at the time so Paige would be shooting two with less than 2 seconds left.

Picking one foul out of an entire game to obsess about doesn't make sense to me. There were many touch fouls called against Texas that were very questionable. Not only that but Texas missed a ton of free throws indicating with better results there, UNC would have gone down by more. UNC was playing in Texas, so they did have some excuse, but they still lost with a team that is loaded.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

The point is they didn't even look at it. Commentators didn't mention it. It surely seemed review worthy.

Reviewable by the commentators, yes. I had to watch it several times before determining who ran into Paige. Would have been worthy of mention while waitinf for the review of the clock.

Not reviewablw by the refs in any universe I am aware of. To my knowledge, the only admissable use of replay and fouls is to determine flagrant/intentional fouls. Certainly not holding up the end of the game to see whether a foul was committed.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Either way, it really didn't matter... with the exception that maybe when Brice sees the play on tape he'll realize if he would have been in proper position to block out Lammert in the first place, maybe Paige doesn't have to drop down and leave his man...

Excellent point. Even given how bad UNC's defensive rebounding had been, it was pretty shocking on the last play.

As I mentioned upthread, thia does a lot more good for Texas than it does bad for UNC. For Smart and the Longhorns, this s a program building win they can point to five years from now. For UNC, it is a mid-December loss to a power five team on the road.

[Saratoga2]

Jay who?

Bilas called the game and he mentioned at least 3 times that he believes UNC is best team in college ball at this time. Two losses so far, one with the team at full strength, doesn't seem to support his belief. On the other hand, MSU just squeaked by yesterday so early the season, there are no teams that are truly dominant.

[Indoor66]

Jay who?

I think he refers to Dickie's replacement.

[Henderson]

Picking one foul out of an entire game to obsess about doesn't make sense to me. There were many touch fouls called against Texas that were very questionable.

Ding Ding Ding!!

This is a primary reason why I hate the post-game whining about a "critical" call. They're all important. And there are dozens of them during a game (hundreds in you include all the non-calls). That shooting foul call at 17:18 in the first half is as important as the same call at 0:01 in the second half. Yet it's the supposedly "blown call" at the buzzer gets all the press. I'm with Saratoga: Doesn't make sense.

[moonpie23]

let's recap:

Blown call - enjoyed result.

Not-blown call - Enjoyed result

Blown NO-Call - enjoyed result

Not blown NO call - enjoyed result

Roy's face - enjoyed result

IC meltdown - enjoyed result


I'm good.... :cool:

[SCMatt33]

Picking one foul out of an entire game to obsess about doesn't make sense to me. There were many touch fouls called against Texas that were very questionable. Not only that but Texas missed a ton of free throws indicating with better results there, UNC would have gone down by more. UNC was playing in Texas, so they did have some excuse, but they still lost with a team that is loaded.

I'm certainly not trying to say that the refs cost them the game or anything. I think even most UNC fans understand that. I was, however, responding to a direct comment that even had the push been called, it wouldn't mean that they win. Given that everything else in the game had already happened, had the foul been called, you have Marcus Paige shooting two free throws with less than 2 seconds on the clock, so its not one of those situation where the call would have only sent the game to overtime. So had the call been made (though I still think both Johnson and the Texas player make contact making a call difficult to make), Carolina most likely wins, but that call isn't the reason they lost, that blame goes to the other 39 minutes, which hopefully doesn't sound too contradictory.

[Henderson]

I'm certainly not trying to say that the refs cost them the game or anything. I think even most UNC fans understand that.

Why in the world would you think that?

[unclsam1]

North Carolina coach Roy Williams is now 1-6 against the Longhorns in 13 seasons in Chapel Hill. UNC , please keep them on your schedule.

[HK Dukie]

I know I am in the minority here but as I got older I started cheering for everyone in the ACC in the non-conference. UNC beating Texas would have been better for Duke come NCAA seeding time. I am more pro-Duke than I am anti-UNC.

In the ACC I cheer against UNC. In the NCAA (or NIT) I cheer against UNC. But non-conference I actually cheer for UNC (unless it's a true Cinderella).

Hope I'm not banned :)

[elvis14]

I know I am in the minority here but as I got older I started cheering for everyone in the ACC in the non-conference. UNC beating Texas would have been better for Duke come NCAA seeding time. I am more pro-Duke than I am anti-UNC.

In the ACC I cheer against UNC. In the NCAA (or NIT) I cheer against UNC. But non-conference I actually cheer for UNC (unless it's a true Cinderella).

Hope I'm not banned :)

UNC is so overrated that when we beat them we'll get credit no matter where they are ranked. Thus that's not a valid reason to root for UNC. Frankly, there isn't really a valid reason to root for UNC. Thank you Texas! 9F

[NSDukeFan]

I know I am in the minority here but as I got older I started cheering for everyone in the ACC in the non-conference. UNC beating Texas would have been better for Duke come NCAA seeding time. I am more pro-Duke than I am anti-UNC.

In the ACC I cheer against UNC. In the NCAA (or NIT) I cheer against UNC. But non-conference I actually cheer for UNC (unless it's a true Cinderella).

Hope I'm not banned :)

Pretty sure that disqualifies you mount Hatemore.

[jbay201]

already 2 non-conference losses to unranked opponents! hopefully will have 3 after playing UCLA on a neutral court

[westwall]

I'm certainly not trying to say that the refs cost them the game or anything. I think even most UNC fans understand that.

"[M]ost UNC fans" may be an overstatement, but certainly some UNC fans on IC have acknowledged, armed with a replay, that it was Brice Johnson (# 11) who hammered Page. When you watch their replays, it seems clear that (a) Page was turning toward the basket, away from the Texas shooter, (b) Lammert was standing close to Page but further from the basket, (c) Brice comes rapidly into the picture, apparently intending to block out Lammert, or go to the basket, but crashes into Page instead, and both move sharply toward the endline, (d) while Lammert barely moves at all.

Thus, I am surprised by the number of posters on this forum who seem willing to concede that there may have been a "blown call". (Even Wheat properly is not stoking that fire.) The refs got it RIGHT.

[jipops]

Bilas called the game and he mentioned at least 3 times that he believes UNC is best team in college ball at this time. Two losses so far, one with the team at full strength, doesn't seem to support his belief. On the other hand, MSU just squeaked by yesterday so early the season, there are no teams that are truly dominant.

No championship team goes through the season undefeated. So what Jay said may still hold water. Remember in fall of 2000 when we lost to a decent-at-best Stanford team?

However, I still haven't watched this "u"nc team. I still refuse to watch that cheating program. They don't deserve to be relevant in college basketball. So every loss can only be a positive.

[uh_no]

No championship team goes through the season undefeated. So what Jay said may still hold water. Remember in fall of 2000 when we lost to a decent-at-best Stanford team?


So why are they ahead of all the other 0, 1 or 2 loss teams?

They're pretty good, yeah, but there are a lot of pretty good teams out there. I have seen nothing to demonstrate that somehow they're better than everyone else out there, and the computer assessments of them corroborate that.

11 KP
9 Sag


As of a week ago, their composite was 6
http://www.masseyratings.com/cb/compare.htm

and that's likely lower now.

[Olympic Fan]

I know I am in the minority here but as I got older I started cheering for everyone in the ACC in the non-conference. UNC beating Texas would have been better for Duke come NCAA seeding time. I am more pro-Duke than I am anti-UNC.

In the ACC I cheer against UNC. In the NCAA (or NIT) I cheer against UNC. But non-conference I actually cheer for UNC (unless it's a true Cinderella).

Hope I'm not banned :)

HK Dukie, for many, many years, I shared your sentiments -- I pulled for any ACC team outside the league -- including UNC.

That changed as I learned more and more about the cheating program that Dean Smith established and that has expanded under Gut, Doh and Roy. No way I'm pulling for that scumbag program -- any time, any where.

I'm sure my past history disqualifies me for Mt. Hatemore, but at this moment, my distaste for UNC-Cheat is equal to anybody on this board.

[Kedsy]

Remember in fall of 2000 when we lost to a decent-at-best Stanford team?

That "decent-at-best" Stanford team was #3 in the country when we played them on December 21, 2000. They went into the NCAA Tournament that season as a #1 seed with a 28-2 record.

After beating UNC, Texas is unranked with a 6-3 record. Not the same.

[Troublemaker]

So why are they ahead of all the other 0, 1 or 2 loss teams?

They're pretty good, yeah, but there are a lot of pretty good teams out there. I have seen nothing to demonstrate that somehow they're better than everyone else out there, and the computer assessments of them corroborate that.

11 KP
9 Sag


As of a week ago, their composite was 6
http://www.masseyratings.com/cb/compare.htm

and that's likely lower now.

Not to be a UNC apologist, but they HAVE only played 3 games so far with Paige.

[Henderson]

Not to be a UNC apologist, but they HAVE only played 110 games so far with Paige.

FIFY.

[devildeac]

Pretty sure that disqualifies you mount Hatemore.


HK Dukie, for many, many years, I shared your sentiments -- I pulled for any ACC team outside the league -- including UNC.

That changed as I learned more and more about the cheating program that Dean Smith established and that has expanded under Gut, Doh and Roy. No way I'm pulling for that scumbag program -- any time, any where.

I'm sure my past history disqualifies me for Mt. Hatemore, but at this moment, my distaste for UNC-Cheat is equal to anybody on this board.

We might need another Mt.

[NSDukeFan]

No championship team goes through the season undefeated...

I believe your memory may be a little short. Wasn't it just last year that Kentucky was 40-0. I thought I saw the T-shirts and tattoos. Oh, wait...

[uh_no]

Not to be a UNC apologist, but they HAVE only played 3 games so far with Paige.

really? so it seems to me their winning % is higher without him.... :)

[devildeac]

really? so it seems to me their winning % is higher without him... :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5hWWe-ts2s

[moonpie23]

I know I am in the minority here but as I got older I started cheering for everyone in the ACC in the non-conference. UNC beating Texas would have been better for Duke come NCAA seeding time. I am more pro-Duke than I am anti-UNC.

In the ACC I cheer against UNC. In the NCAA (or NIT) I cheer against UNC. But non-conference I actually cheer for UNC (unless it's a true Cinderella).

Hope I'm not banned :)

negative.....unc win is NEVER a good thing.....

[OldPhiKap]

negative....unc win is NEVER a good thing....

The not thing I hope that UNC ever wins is a one-way ticket to Hell.

[BD80]

The not thing I hope that UNC ever wins is a one-way ticket to Hell.

The NCAA has issued the ticket, unc refuses to get on the bus!

[devildeac]

The NCAA has issued the ticket, unc refuses to get on the bus!

Unstable/unsafe ride with too many people underneath it already.

[OldPhiKap]

Unstable/unsafe ride with too many people underneath it already.

Always worth reposting:

5764

[Edouble]

That "decent-at-best" Stanford team was #3 in the country when we played them on December 21, 2000. They went into the NCAA Tournament that season as a #1 seed with a 28-2 record.

After beating UNC, Texas is unranked with a 6-3 record. Not the same.

Uh yeah, that was a really good Stanford team. That Casey Jacobsen bank shot is probably my favorite shot to beat a Duke team ever (sounds weird, I know, but that was one h*ll of a shot).

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Who pushed him? That's the $64 question. I saw a teammate and an opponent both hit him at about the same time. Not sure what to call.

-jk

Follow the feet.

As I see it..
Johnson did make slight contact too with his right hand/forearm...but he was about two feet inside the lane while Paige was right on the outside line...Lambert comes crashing in straight down the line and little Paige goes flying.
Also look at Lammert's body language, he has a "hand in the cookie jar" response after the contact to me.

Regardless, as others have mentioned, that non call didn't decide the game. Felix draining the shot did. As Roy said in the press conference, they made winning plays and the Heels didn't.

You guys have fun now with this loss. I don't think you will see many this season. This is still a really good team.

Here's a video link to the play...
https://giant.gfycat.com/DrearyIllinformedBigmouthbass.gif

[left_hook_lacey]

I made a bold guarantee in another thread before UNC had lost any games that UNC would finish the year outside the top 15. I'm going to shamelessly bring that up every time UNC loses a game they're not supposed to. I wanted to do it after the UNI loss, but just never got around to it.

Looks like I'm gonna be a busy poster over the next few months. :cool:

[gurufrisbee]

I understand the general concept of wanting the ACC to look good.

That does NOT extend to the Terd Holes.

My three favorite teams are:
A) Duke
B) Whoever is playing unc
C) The NCAA when they finally punish them for all the cheating

[PackMan97]

The not thing I hope that UNC ever wins is a one-way ticket to Hell.

Unfortunatley, my hate is so strong I can't get on board with them winning anything, ever! Of course, I want the NCAA to hit them so hard they'll WISH they had a ticket to hell instead of wherever the NCAA sends them....about this time I wake up from the best dream ever. :)

[-jk]

Follow the feet.

As I see it..
Johnson did make slight contact too with his right hand/forearm...but he was about two feet inside the lane while Paige was right on the outside line...Lambert comes crashing in straight down the line and little Paige goes flying.
Also look at Lammert's body language, he has a "hand in the cookie jar" response after the contact to me.

Regardless, as others have mentioned, that non call didn't decide the game. Felix draining the shot did. As Roy said in the press conference, they made winning plays and the Heels didn't.

You guys have fun now with this loss. I don't think you will see many this season. This is still a really good team.

Here's a video link to the play...
https://giant.gfycat.com/DrearyIllinformedBigmouthbass.gif

The more I watch the play, the more it seems all three players came together. Paige spun and moved over. The other two flew in together, and leveled the much smaller Paige.

By rule, you must leave enough room for a (non-ballhandling) player to avoid you, and two players coming together - absent any established position - is a tie. Paige was moving, the other two flying, all at the same time: This play was incidental - albeit rough - contact. A reasonable "no call".

-jk

[luvdahops]

I only saw the last 10 minutes, but Carolina did not look much different than last year's edition. Same key issues in my view:

-General lack of toughness

-Over-reliance on Paige in crunch time

-Shaky perimeter defense

KenPom is currently predicting to finish 12-6 and 3rd in the ACC (behind UVA and Duke) and 23-8 overall for the regular season, which seems about right

[TruBlu]

KenPom is currently predicting to finish 12-6 and 3rd in the ACC (behind UVA and Duke) and 23-8 overall for the regular season, which seems about right

0-18 and 7-24 sounds righter to me.

GTHC in every game.

[fidel]

I only saw the last 10 minutes, but Carolina did not look much different than last year's edition. Same key issues in my view:

-General lack of toughness

-Over-reliance on Paige in crunch time

-Shaky perimeter defense

KenPom is currently predicting to finish 12-6 and 3rd in the ACC (behind UVA and Duke) and 23-8 overall for the regular season, which seems about right

Don't forget Huck holding on to his time outs until 2020 as a key issue...

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Don't forget Huck holding on to his time outs until 2020 as a key issue...

Time outs, no time outs...had nothing to do with this one.

The key issue was Shaka's decision to post up Ridley and have everybody else run the offense out side the 3pt line...which left them lanes to attack the boards on their shots running at the rim. They went hard at the ball on the offensive glass all night and UNC's bigs didn't do a good job of blocking out. It didn't help UNC that Texas got some fortunate bounces off badly missed shots either. Offensive rebounding was the deal for success...that and hitting 50% 3's.

The Heels executed well offensively down the stretch. I thought they showed some real poise on the road with the ball. I think they scored on their last 4 possessions? Anyways, they just have to block out better on defensive rebounds.

In the end the ball just didn't bounce UNC's way and Texas players made some big plays. They earned the win.

It was another game played at a high level and sometimes other teams just make big plays. We're not even into ACC play yet. On to the next one.

[BD80]

... We're not even into ACC play yet. On to the next one.

So many classes and so much studying for the heels before then ...

just kidding

[Indoor66]

So many classes and so much studying for the heels before then ...

just kidding

Why kidding? It is a new thing over at the dump. :p:cool:

[whereinthehellami]

The game was entertaining but I don't necessarily agree that it was played at that high of a level. While Texas didn't have a ton of TOs their ball handling and passing was sloppy. Their overall basketball IQ was not at a high level with the exception of Felix. There were multiple airballs and shots that hit the side of the backboard. The teams played hard though and the end was fun...eat it holes.

If I'm a UNC fan this game is concerning to me because...

It was Texas...haha.
Meeks was a non-factor, to the point of embarrassment.
Johnson has no Bball IQ and just never seems to get it. 3 fouls in like 5 minutes in the first half.
Britt, Berry, and Paige will have problems against size/speed all year.
Way too many open looks from 3. Same old story. What kind of Coach never addresses this issue in today's game? Says a lot right there.

[Henderson]

So many classes and so much studying for the heels before then ...

just kidding


Why kidding? It is a new thing over at the dump. :p:cool:

You have evidence that things have changed over there? Real academics with tests and stuff? I wouldn't assume it just because Carol Folt says so.

I'll bet they're more careful about email though. UNC-CH is like the burglar who gets caught during a caper, spends time in the can, studies his mistakes, and is released on the world a more educated burglar, proclaiming his changed ways.

[Wander]

I only saw the last 10 minutes, but Carolina did not look much different than last year's edition. Same key issues in my view:

-General lack of toughness

-Over-reliance on Paige in crunch time

-Shaky perimeter defense

KenPom is currently predicting to finish 12-6 and 3rd in the ACC (behind UVA and Duke) and 23-8 overall for the regular season, which seems about right

The biggest issue for UNC this year looks to me to, once again, be a lack of good 3-point shooting. I thought Justin Jackson would be a much better shooter, and maybe he still will be, but so far this season he is not. A lack of good 3-point shooting is what kept Arizona in the 2nd tier of teams last year instead of at the highest level with Duke, Kentucky, and Wisconsin. It looks like the same thing will happen to UNC this year.

[Troublemaker]

The biggest issue for UNC this year looks to me to, once again, be a lack of good 3-point shooting. I thought Justin Jackson would be a much better shooter, and maybe he still will be, but so far this season he is not. A lack of good 3-point shooting is what kept Arizona in the 2nd tier of teams last year instead of at the highest level with Duke, Kentucky, and Wisconsin. It looks like the same thing will happen to UNC this year.

Between Paige, Berry, and Britt and some secondary 3-pt shooting from Pinson and Jackson (who seems to hit them in big games), I think UNC has enough shooting given all their other offensive strengths. UNC has the #3 offense right now and I expect them to give Duke a tough challenge for the top spot.

UNC's weakness is giving up 3-pt shots on defense. 41.9% of opponents' points scored come from threes, which is dead-last in the country. In comparison, Duke's opponents only score 26.4% of their points off threes.

When playing UNC, it's relatively easy to set a high ball-screen, penetrate and kick-out for an open 3.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Between Paige, Berry, and Britt and some secondary 3-pt shooting from Pinson and Jackson (who seems to hit them in big games), I think UNC has enough shooting given all their other offensive strengths. UNC has the #3 offense right now and I expect them to give Duke a tough challenge for the top spot.

UNC's weakness is giving up 3-pt shots on defense. 41.9% of opponents' points scored come from threes, which is dead-last in the country. In comparison, Duke's opponents only score 26.4% of their points from threes.

When playing UNC, it's relatively easy to set a high ball-screen, penetrate and kick-out for an open 3.

That is ridiculous. Is it that hard to defend the 3pt shot? Matt Jones and Grayson Allen are both shooting 46% from deep. And Ingram has been hitting 3pt shots at a ridiculous pace in the last few games. Add in Thornton and Kennard and it will be a field day against UNC.

I think UNC is a better team than Duke right now, but I think Duke's chances of winning are higher in a one-on-one battle because of that one insane stat. Plus, with Amile and MP3, there will be plenty of opportunities for offensive rebounds. But, then again, isn't UNC a really good rebounding team (I feel they are a good rebounding team every year)?

[77devil]

So many classes and so much studying for the heels before then ...

just kidding

While Duke and UVA take a 10 day break in the schedule for exams, the Heels keep playing through theirs.

[flyingdutchdevil]

While Duke and UVA take a 10 day break in the schedule for exams, the Heels keep playing through theirs.

You're assuming that UNC actually has exams. Why take time off in December when you don't have a reason to take time off?

[devildeac]

While Duke and UVA take a 10 day break in the schedule for exams, the Heels keep playing through theirs.


You're assuming that UNC actually has exams. Why take time off in December when you don't have a reason to take time off?

Honestly, the comments you two make sometimes have no class...

;)

[oldnavy]

That is ridiculous. Is it that hard to defend the 3pt shot? Matt Jones and Grayson Allen are both shooting 46% from deep. And Ingram has been hitting 3pt shots at a ridiculous pace in the last few games. Add in Thornton and Kennard and it will be a field day against UNC.

I think UNC is a better team than Duke right now, but I think Duke's chances of winning are higher in a one-on-one battle because of that one insane stat. Plus, with Amile and MP3, there will be plenty of opportunities for offensive rebounds. But, then again, isn't UNC a really good rebounding team (I feel they are a good rebounding team every year)?

For whatever reason, UNC will leave the perimeter to drop down and try to help when the ball goes inside. This isn't just a Dukie (me) bias, my wife and son both die hard heels fuss about it all the time.

I am not sure why they do this, but it is a staple of their defense and one to be exploited at every opportunity.

[BD80]

So many classes and so much studying for the heels before then ...

just kidding


While Duke and UVA take a 10 day break in the schedule for exams, the Heels keep playing through theirs.

I said I was kidding

[MChambers]

For whatever reason, UNC will leave the perimeter to drop down and try to help when the ball goes inside. This isn't just a Dukie (me) bias, my wife and son both die hard heels fuss about it all the time.

I am not sure why they do this, but it is a staple of their defense and one to be exploited at every opportunity.

In contrast, Duke has limited three point attempts more than any other team, over the past decade:

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/offense_vs._defense_three_point_attempts

UNC isn't one of the worst 10 at limiting those attempts, but I've always had the sense that Ol' Roy is more concerned about defending the post.

[flyingdutchdevil]

In contrast, Duke has limited three point attempts more than any other team, over the past decade:

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/offense_vs._defense_three_point_attempts

UNC isn't one of the worst 10 at limiting those attempts, but I've always had the sense that Ol' Roy is more concerned about defending the post.

There must also be a correlation between offensive usage and defensive style, right? Historically, UNC probably has a pretty high post-usage percentage and hence they will defend it that way (maybe Roy thinks that scoring in the post is more efficient than any other style and hence wants to play that way and defend that way) whereas Duke has a high 3pt-usage and also defends the 3pt shot very well.

[Philadukie]

There must also be a correlation between offensive usage and defensive style, right? Historically, UNC probably has a pretty high post-usage percentage and hence they will defend it that way (maybe Roy thinks that scoring in the post is more efficient than any other style and hence wants to play that way and defend that way) whereas Duke has a high 3pt-usage and also defends the 3pt shot very well.

Further evidence that the game is moving past Ol' Roy. I believe I saw a stat somewhere that shows teams' percentage of points from beyond the arc had increased substantially over the last two decades, as the game continues to evolve toward a more guard/wing/stretch big man style of play.

K's been at the forefront of this style offensively and defensively. Ol' Roy, not so much.

[Troublemaker]

For whatever reason, UNC will leave the perimeter to drop down and try to help when the ball goes inside. This isn't just a Dukie (me) bias, my wife and son both die hard heels fuss about it all the time.

I am not sure why they do this, but it is a staple of their defense and one to be exploited at every opportunity.


In contrast, Duke has limited three point attempts more than any other team, over the past decade:

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/offense_vs._defense_three_point_attempts

UNC isn't one of the worst 10 at limiting those attempts, but I've always had the sense that Ol' Roy is more concerned about defending the post.

Right, the Heels also more quickly and more frequently help off shooters on dribble penetration than Duke. Of course, while Duke's man defense takes away 3-pt attempts, we allow layup lines when things aren't clicking with communication and help defense. Every team has its defensive style and each style will have its weak point unless you have overwhelming defensive talent.

[Indoor66]

Honestly, the comments you two make sometimes have no class...

;)

But they are studious in their efforts to find the class. :)

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Roy believes that since 3's are a lower % shot the defender should help on drives and recover. Note: they are expected to recover in time to challenge the shot. That's where it gets tricky...the defender has to judge just how much space to give up. Some players are better at it than others.

I think that's a good strategy for the most part, however when there is a player that shoots better than 40% from corner 3's... I would direct my defender to stay at home on them. Always.

Defending the 3 can always be better, but some games teams just step up and hit contested shots on you.

Here's the biggest problem for the Heels as I see it rather than the 3 defense...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cOW65CDA2Ik

This is in the last minute and how Texas took the 2 pt lead before Paige tied it up with the finger roll with 7 seconds to go.(Video ends before he makes the putback shot, but trust me, he does :). You've seen the buzzer beater.

Notice how Brice blocked out nicely, but where is some toughness? He allowed the driver to easily push him off his space and gather the easy rebound for the putback. Brice is a big, strong guy and that was a little guard. He's got to play stronger/tougher than that. You can't hope the refs call a foul on a play like that in a road game environment, (or anytime).

[left_hook_lacey]

Roy believes that since 3's are a lower % shot the defender should help on drives and recover. Note: they are expected to recover in time to challenge the shot. That's where it gets tricky...the defender has to judge just how much space to give up. Some players are better at it than others.

I think that's a good strategy for the most part, however when there is a player that shoots better than 40% from corner 3's... I would direct my defender to stay at home on them. Always.

Defending the 3 can always be better, but some games teams just step up and hit contested shots on you.

Here's the biggest problem for the Heels as I see it rather than the 3 defense...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cOW65CDA2Ik

This is in the last minute and how Texas took the 2 pt lead before Paige tied it up with the finger roll with 7 seconds to go.(Video ends before he makes the putback shot, but trust me, he does :). You've seen the buzzer beater.

Notice how Brice blocked out nicely, but where is some toughness? He allowed the driver to easily push him off his space and gather the easy rebound for the putback. Brice is a big, strong guy and that was a little guard. He's got to play stronger/tougher than that. You can't hope the refs call a foul on a play like that in a road game environment, (or anytime).


I actually think this is another example of Huck not being able to change with the times. This might have been a good strategy in the 80's and 90's but we're in a world where the 3 point line has been around for a while. Kids playing today are the 2nd generation that has grown up in a world where practicing and taking the 3 is commonplace. Today's player grew up practicing the 3 like the older generations practiced layups and free throws. We've gone from the 3 being a gimmick or desperation shot, to it being some teams preferred offense. That's one of the reasons you see phenoms like Kevin Durant. In the 80's Durant would've never become the type of player he is today because no coach would've allowed him to jack up 3's at any point during his career.

Today's 3 point shooters are more accurate and more confident than ever while teams are taking more and more of the bonus shot. Simply laying back and hoping they miss isn't a good defensive strategy IMHO. But, I guess that's why he wears the designer sports coats, and I sit at a keyboard all day.

[PackMan97]

Notice how Brice blocked out nicely, but where is some toughness? He allowed the driver to easily push him off his space and gather the easy rebound for the putback. Brice is a big, strong guy and that was a little guard. He's got to play stronger/tougher than that. You can't hope the refs call a foul on a play like that in a road game environment, (or anytime).

Watching that video, I'd call a foul on Brice. Notice how he tries to undercut the Texas player. He clearly knows where he is going to land as he was just facing him and trying to block his shot. LOL @ all the Tarheels claiming it should have been a foul on the Texas player. The kid was just trying to land and in fact had Brice move underneath him while he was in the air. Carolina was very fortunate for that no-call.

As for Brice playing "stronger" watch the end of the video where the shooters leg lands on the back of Brice's right calf and buckles his knee and then with the shooter using his arms to protect himself, it's no wonder Brice wasn't able to hold his ground. You'd have to be a really hefty guy to hold your ground against that. Someone of Brice's stature doesn't have the mass. Maybe if that was some of the traditional 6'10", 260lb centers of yesteryear...but not the thin athletic guys of today.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Roy believes that since 3's are a lower % shot the defender should help on drives and recover. Note: they are expected to recover in time to challenge the shot. That's where it gets tricky...the defender has to judge just how much space to give up. Some players are better at it than others.

I think that's a good strategy for the most part, however when there is a player that shoots better than 40% from corner 3's... I would direct my defender to stay at home on them. Always.

Defending the 3 can always be better, but some games teams just step up and hit contested shots on you.

Here's the biggest problem for the Heels as I see it rather than the 3 defense...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cOW65CDA2Ik

This is in the last minute and how Texas took the 2 pt lead before Paige tied it up with the finger roll with 7 seconds to go.(Video ends before he makes the putback shot, but trust me, he does :). You've seen the buzzer beater.

Notice how Brice blocked out nicely, but where is some toughness? He allowed the driver to easily push him off his space and gather the easy rebound for the putback. Brice is a big, strong guy and that was a little guard. He's got to play stronger/tougher than that. You can't hope the refs call a foul on a play like that in a road game environment, (or anytime).

The opposite is true for Duke - as pointed out above, we are very good at defending the three, but we are frequently maddeningly deficient at stepping in front of a driving player.

Pick your poison.

[oldnavy]

Watching that video, I'd call a foul on Brice. Notice how he tries to undercut the Texas player. He clearly knows where he is going to land as he was just facing him and trying to block his shot. LOL @ all the Tarheels claiming it should have been a foul on the Texas player. The kid was just trying to land and in fact had Brice move underneath him while he was in the air. Carolina was very fortunate for that no-call.

No way is it a foul on the UT kid, who is saying that it was???

Johnson clearly moves into the space after the UT guard leaves the floor, so he has to expect contact, and if a call was to be made it would have to be a blocking call on Johnson.

I agree with Wheat, that Brice should have held his ground and been in position for the rebound.... that was way too easy of an offensive rebound.

I don't agree with the idea that the way UNC helps off dribble penetration or post feeds is a good strategy. I am sure that the numbers don't support it. UNC gets burned way more on open 3's than they do on inside play. Besides UNC's big's really do not need help if you ask me... they defend the post pretty well without a guard dropping down...

[Henderson]

About a week ago, I was dining with some friends. Mrs. H was shooting some video of us at the table having fun.

Toward the end of the meal, one of the women at the table casually touched her nose with her gloved hand (it was cold).

Then she picked up a piece of salmon tartar en croute. Without washing her glove. And double dipped.

Or so it seemed to me.

She insisted she had neither touched her nose nor double-dipped.

The other people at our table were noncommittal and seemed to think it a small point. They continued on with their lives.

But I pressed the issue. There's a history here. That woman gets all the nose-touches and double-dips. And nobody calls her on it.

Not this time, buster. Not on my watch.

So I called for the owner of the restaurant. Mrs. Henderson said, "Oh yeah, this is going to end well," and I knew her trust in me was well-placed.

I had him call up the restaurant's surveillance video to compare with the video Mrs. Henderson had shot. Yes, thank you, I am a very smart person. Two viewpoints on video!

It was dark by now, and my wife and friends had left. There was no reason for them to stick around.

The owner let me watch 4 hours of video tape till we got to the crucial point at 1:30 am: Did her glove actually touch her nose? Ahah!! yes it did. You really have to zoom in, but there is definitely a touch.

The dinner had been long over, but I knew I was right. And I was. I was.

So yeah, another great night out.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

About a week ago, I was dining with some friends. Mrs. H was shooting some video of us at the table having fun.

Toward the end of the meal, one of the women at the table casually touched her nose with her gloved hand (it was cold).

Then she picked up a piece of salmon tartar en croute. Without washing her glove. And double dipped.

Or so it seemed to me.

She insisted she had neither touched her nose nor double-dipped.

The other people at our table were noncommittal and seemed to think it a small point. They continued on with their lives.

But I pressed the issue. There's a history here. That woman gets all the nose-touches and double-dips. And nobody calls her on it.

Not this time, buster. Not on my watch.

So I called for the owner of the restaurant. Mrs. Henderson said, "Oh yeah, this is going to end well," and I knew her trust in me was well-placed.

I had him call up the restaurant's surveillance video to compare with the video Mrs. Henderson had shot. Yes, thank you, I am a very smart person. Two viewpoints on video!

It was dark by now, and my wife and friends had left. There was no reason for them to stick around.

The owner let me watch 4 hours of video tape till we got to the crucial point at 1:30 am: Did her glove actually touch her nose? Ahah!! yes it did. You really have to zoom in, but there is definitely a touch.

The dinner had been long over, but I knew I was right. And I was. I was.

So yeah, another great night out.

DBR Forum- where the weird turn pro.

:)

[flyingdutchdevil]

DBR Forum- where the weird turn pro.

:)

Inside Carolina- where the emotionally unstable turn pro. ;)

[OldPhiKap]

DBR Forum- where the weird turn pro.

:)

DBR -- where HST quotes are always welcome.

[PackMan97]

No way is it a foul on the UT kid, who is saying that it was???.

My Tarheel aquaintences who are all upset at recent officiation. Clemson in the ACC FB Title game and at the end of UNC-CH.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

My Tarheel aquaintences who are all upset at recent officiation. Clemson in the ACC FB Title game and at the end of UNC-CH.

You guys are delusional if you think Brice undercut Taylor on that play and that UNC was lucky there wasn't a foul called on them. It was a clean block out. He had space to land and did. Stevie Wonder could see that.

Taylor clearly pushed off with both hands in the small of Johnson's back. If any foul would have been called, it would have been on Taylor on the push off and after looking at the replay, 99.9% of reasonable fans would not argue a call there.

Even tho he pushed, I don't think he pushed off that hard, more just gathered himself after coming down tight to Brice...and evidently neither did the refs so I'm not gonna complain about the no-call. As I have stated, Johnson has to hold that ground. He's got to make a guy push a lot harder than that to get a call there, or stand his ground and get that rebound.

He was standing upright, ready to reach, with a weak center of gravity...and he let a little guard displace him. He was not maintaining a crouch and a position of strength in his space.

Too much finess, not enough toughness. That's my take on that play.

[devildeac]

Shouldn't one of these scores be redacted...

[jipops]

That "decent-at-best" Stanford team was #3 in the country when we played them on December 21, 2000. They went into the NCAA Tournament that season as a #1 seed with a 28-2 record.

After beating UNC, Texas is unranked with a 6-3 record. Not the same.

Props to you. I could only remember Casey Jacobson and nobody else. My memory sucks. I shouldn't rely on it.

I was almost right about the season.

[oldnavy]

You guys are delusional if you think Brice undercut Taylor on that play and that UNC was lucky there wasn't a foul called on them. It was a clean block out. He had space to land and did. Stevie Wonder could see that.

Taylor clearly pushed off with both hands in the small of Johnson's back. If any foul would have been called, it would have been on Taylor on the push off and after looking at the replay, 99.9% of reasonable fans would not argue a call there.

Even tho he pushed, I don't think he pushed off that hard, more just gathered himself after coming down tight to Brice...and evidently neither did the refs so I'm not gonna complain about the no-call. As I have stated, Johnson has to hold that ground. He's got to make a guy push a lot harder than that to get a call there, or stand his ground and get that rebound.

He was standing upright, ready to reach, with a weak center of gravity...and he let a little guard displace him. He was not maintaining a crouch and a position of strength in his space.

Too much finess, not enough toughness. That's my take on that play.

The only way the Texas guy could have avoided that contact would have been to levitate in mid air. I am not surprised that you refuse to see this however, it seems that all of the UNC faithful have been blinded to the truth of late.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

The only way the Texas guy could have avoided that contact would have been to levitate in mid air. I am not surprised that you refuse to see this however, it seems that all of the UNC faithful have been blinded to the truth of late.

The contact was incidental on the play. When Taylor landed Brice did not move and neither did Taylor. The push did move him.

But again, I'm not whining a no foul call. Brice can't be so weak.

[El_Diablo]

The contact was incidental on the play. When Taylor landed Brice did not move and neither did Taylor. The push did move him.

But again, I'm not whining a no foul call. Brice can't be so weak.

Brice slid under the shooter as he was in mid-air, so no, the shooter had no space to land. Look at the friggin video; he lands on Johnson's leg. Are you really not able to see that? Really?

The resulting contact was therefore not "incidental." A defender is not allowed to box out an airborne shooter; he has to let him land first. People sprain ankles or worse on those types of plays (e.g., when Joel James did it to Okafor last year), and Brice easily could have been called for a foul on that. Did the shooter then push Brice away? Yes, I don't think anyone can argue that.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Brice slid under the shooter as he was in mid-air, so no, the shooter had no space to land. Look at the friggin video; he lands on Johnson's leg. Are you really not able to see that? Really?

The resulting contact was therefore not "incidental." A defender is not allowed to box out an airborne shooter; he has to let him land first. People sprain ankles or worse on those types of plays (e.g., when Joel James did it to Okafor last year), and Brice easily could have been called for a foul on that. Did the shooter then push Brice away? Yes, I don't think anyone can argue that.

Yes, his foot hit Brice's calf. Incidental contact and no way an undercut. That's my take. We'll all just have to agree to disagree.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yes, his foot hit Brice's calf. Incidental contact and no way an undercut. That's my take. We'll all just have to agree to disagree.

The beauty of instant reply on slo-mo is you can find any foul if you look for it. Personally, I think that Brice Johnson did "illegally" step into the UT player but I also think the UT player may have had a little "over the back" on Brice. However, there was no clear cut foul and, calling a foul on either player is most certainly the wrong call.

I really don't like this anti-physical basketball that college ball is trying to instill. Basketball SHOULD be physical and it SHOULD have plenty of contact. But all of these ticky-tacky fouls really bother me.

Fans on either side are always gonna bicker about a foul here and a foul there; it happens to be DBR's second favorite topic about minutes (and I love the minutes discussion!). Instant reply just exacerbates the problem of fans giving their two-cents on any foul, trivial or not.

[oldnavy]

The beauty of instant reply on slo-mo is you can find any foul if you look for it. Personally, I think that Brice Johnson did "illegally" step into the UT player but I also think the UT player may have had a little "over the back" on Brice. However, there was no clear cut foul and, calling a foul on either player is most certainly the wrong call.

I really don't like this anti-physical basketball that college ball is trying to instill. Basketball SHOULD be physical and it SHOULD have plenty of contact. But all of these ticky-tacky fouls really bother me.

Fans on either side are always gonna bicker about a foul here and a foul there; it happens to be DBR's second favorite topic about minutes (and I love the minutes discussion!). Instant reply just exacerbates the problem of fans giving their two-cents on any foul, trivial or not.

I agree with your assessment about the ticky-tacky fouls and I agree with the no-call. But if a foul were to be called you would have to call it on Brice because his action while the shooter was airborne is what caused the initial contact. It is clear to anyone who looks that Brice occupied the landing space while the kid was in the air. Saying he didn't doesn't change the fact. Granted it wasn't and "undercut" in the usual sense, but Brice did initiate the contact.

Now if you believe that the Texas player then retaliated and shoved or swung at Brice, I suppose you could assess a flagrant foul, but that would be weak.

No call was the right call IMO.

[slower]

Brice slid under the shooter as he was in mid-air, so no, the shooter had no space to land. Look at the friggin video; he lands on Johnson's leg. Are you really not able to see that? Really?

The resulting contact was therefore not "incidental." A defender is not allowed to box out an airborne shooter; he has to let him land first. People sprain ankles or worse on those types of plays (e.g., when Joel James did it to Okafor last year), and Brice easily could have been called for a foul on that. Did the shooter then push Brice away? Yes, I don't think anyone can argue that.

Classic UNC defense as taught by Dean. As subtlely as possible, move slightly under the shooter as he's in the air. Been doing it for decades. Is it a foul? ABSOLUTELY. People can get seriously hurt.

[77devil]

Classic UNC defense as taught by Dean. As subtlely as possible, move slightly under the shooter as he's in the air. Been doing it for decades. Is it a foul? ABSOLUTELY. People can get seriously hurt.


Joel James does it routinely, if not so subtle, but Wheat never sees that either.

[oldnavy]

Joel James does it routinely, if not so subtle, but Wheat never sees that either.

I know the heel fans like to point out the "Duke" kick on jump shooters... could the leg kick be an attempt to get the subtle undercut noticed by the refs??? Coach K was always good about countering Dean's moves...

[elvis14]

I know the heel fans like to point out the "Duke" kick on jump shooters... could the leg kick be an attempt to get the subtle undercut noticed by the refs??? Coach K was always good about countering Dean's moves...

I've never heard of this being related to Duke. I know Tyus did it last year but I don't remember anyone else doing it with any consistency. If I was going to label it something I'd call it the Kobe kick he made it famous.

[oldnavy]

I've never heard of this being related to Duke. I know Tyus did it last year but I don't remember anyone else doing it with any consistency. If I was going to label it something I'd call it the Kobe kick he made it famous.

They're Carolina fans... If it's something they don't like or can't do they blame it on Duke... They ignore hansbrough's over dramatic flops and say that only Duke players flop... Not dealing with rational minds.

[Indoor66]

They're Carolina fans... If it's something they don't like or can't do they blame it on Duke... They ignore hansbrough's over dramatic flops and say that only Duke players flop... Not dealing with rational minds.

After that superb post, all I can say is Go GREEN WAVE!

[Green Wave Dukie]

After that superb post, all I can say is Go GREEN WAVE!

Will be at the game tonight with wife and 2 daughters. I ordered Tulane gear for them but one shirt didn't fit so I think my oldest daughter is wearing a Duke shirt. Hope we'll be safe.

[Indoor66]

Will be at the game tonight with wife and 2 daughters. I ordered Tulane gear for them but one shirt didn't fit so I think my oldest daughter is wearing a Duke shirt. Hope we'll be safe.

I will follow on the electronic cyclops. I hope to be happy at the end. Go GREEN WAVE!

[eddiehaskell]

Don't see a foul on the Texas player...he had to land and he extended his arms a little because the defensive player was in his landing space. Just looks like a normal basketball play to me.