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View Full Version : Worst call of the year -- so far?



Olympic Fan
12-07-2015, 11:35 AM
I'm talking basketball, not football (nothing to match the end of the Duke-Miami game), but did anybody else see the final play of regulation in Elon's amazing come-from-behind victory over Kennesaw State?

Elon was down eight with 16 seconds left and somehow got it to three with four seconds left -- and they had the ball. Then this (check the video embedded in the story):

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/11/30/9824466/college-basketball-comeback-elon-phoenix-kennesaw

I've seen shooters jump into the defender and get the call, but in this case, the kid has to jump five feet sideways to make contact with the defender ... and he gets the call. He hits all three free throws to force OT and Elon dominates the OT for the win.

Note -- we play Elon on the 28th.

left_hook_lacey
12-07-2015, 11:43 AM
I'm talking basketball, not football (nothing to match the end of the Duke-Miami game), but did anybody else see the final play of regulation in Elon's amazing come-from-behind victory over Kennesaw State?

Elon was down eight with 16 seconds left and somehow got it to three with four seconds left -- and they had the ball. Then this (check the video embedded in the story):

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/11/30/9824466/college-basketball-comeback-elon-phoenix-kennesaw

I've seen shooters jump into the defender and get the call, but in this case, the kid has to jump five feet sideways to make contact with the defender ... and he gets the call. He hits all three free throws to force OT and Elon dominates the OT for the win.

Note -- we play Elon on the 28th.

I tried to watch the video, got an error "The media cannot be played". I beg to differ. :cool:

SoCalDukeFan
12-07-2015, 11:46 AM
Bad call but we will see worse as the season goes on.

SoCal

ricks68
12-07-2015, 12:03 PM
I'm talking basketball, not football (nothing to match the end of the Duke-Miami game), but did anybody else see the final play of regulation in Elon's amazing come-from-behind victory over Kennesaw State?

Elon was down eight with 16 seconds left and somehow got it to three with four seconds left -- and they had the ball. Then this (check the video embedded in the story):

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/11/30/9824466/college-basketball-comeback-elon-phoenix-kennesaw

I've seen shooters jump into the defender and get the call, but in this case, the kid has to jump five feet sideways to make contact with the defender ... and he gets the call. He hits all three free throws to force OT and Elon dominates the OT for the win.

Note -- we play Elon on the 28th.

I'm not so sure about it being a bad call. Was the call on #14, who looks like he might have pushed the Elon player at the beginning of the shot, or on #1, who the Elon player supposedly jumped into? Also, it appears to me that after clearing #14, the only way the Elon player could have gotten (?) off the shot was for him to lean quite a way to his right, which I believe he was already in the process of doing. JMHO.

In addition, it's usually the non-calls that should have been made at the end of games that are the bad ones as far as I am concerned. Again, JMHO.

ricks

flyingdutchdevil
12-07-2015, 12:07 PM
a) The defender bit on the pump-fake.

b) It's pretty common for players to jump into the defender to get the foul call.

But I fully agree that shooting sideways AND getting the call is pretty egregious. However, it will definitely not be the worst foul call of the season.

sagegrouse
12-07-2015, 12:10 PM
I'm not so sure about it being a bad call. Was the call on #14, who looks like he might have pushed the Elon player at the beginning of the shot, or on #1, who the Elon player supposedly jumped into? Also, it appears to me that after clearing #14, the only way the Elon player could have gotten (?) off the shot was for him to lean quite a way to his right, which I believe he was already in the process of doing. JMHO.

In addition, it's usually the non-calls that should have been made at the end of games that are the bad ones as far as I am concerned. Again, JMHO.

ricks

I thought the player on the left of the Elon shooter grabbed the ball and caused the Elon player to stumble to his right -- I truly couldn't say whether it was a jump ball, a foul or full-fledged acting by the Elon player. I did note that the ref who raised his arm was screened from the play.

duke blue brewcrew
12-07-2015, 12:24 PM
Not that I want to start a pity party for the CHeaters, but that offsides call at the end of the ACC Championship game was AWFUL! How is that non-reviewable?! It's certainly an encapsulation of the quality of ACC Football officiating this year...smh

JNort
12-07-2015, 01:12 PM
I'm not so sure about it being a bad call. Was the call on #14, who looks like he might have pushed the Elon player at the beginning of the shot, or on #1, who the Elon player supposedly jumped into? Also, it appears to me that after clearing #14, the only way the Elon player could have gotten (?) off the shot was for him to lean quite a way to his right, which I believe he was already in the process of doing. JMHO.

In addition, it's usually the non-calls that should have been made at the end of games that are the bad ones as far as I am concerned. Again, JMHO.

ricks


a) The defender bit on the pump-fake.

b) It's pretty common for players to jump into the defender to get the foul call.

But I fully agree that shooting sideways AND getting the call is pretty egregious. However, it will definitely not be the worst foul call of the season.

I'm with y'all. Seems like the right call to me.

JNort
12-07-2015, 01:14 PM
Not that I want to start a pity party for the CHeaters, but that offsides call at the end of the ACC Championship game was AWFUL! How is that non-reviewable?! It's certainly an encapsulation of the quality of ACC Football officiating this year...smh

Yeah that call was atrocious. Forget that it's not reviewable cause I'm fine with that. What was the ref even looking at? It wasn't even close to being offside anywhere on the field! ACC or NCAA should investigate this imo cause it's awfully suspicious

Wander
12-07-2015, 01:16 PM
You guys are crazy, that call is comically horrible (FYI to answer the question above, the foul was on the guy he jumped "into," not #14). Getting someone to bite on a pump fake is nice but it doesn't give you license to just do whatever you want and automatically get a foul call. I'm sure we'll see some calls that are AS bad, but it's hard to imagine one that is actually worse.

JNort
12-07-2015, 01:38 PM
You guys are crazy, that call is comically horrible (FYI to answer the question above, the foul was on the guy he jumped "into," not #14). Getting someone to bite on a pump fake is nice but it doesn't give you license to just do whatever you want and automatically get a foul call. I'm sure we'll see some calls that are AS bad, but it's hard to imagine one that is actually worse.

As long as the rules allow you to jump into guys for fouls I think that calls like that are fine. That one right there wasn't even that bad, watch some nba games tonight and you will see some that are much worse

flyingdutchdevil
12-07-2015, 01:42 PM
As long as the rules allow you to jump into guys for fouls I think that calls like that are fine. That one right there wasn't even that bad, watch some nba games tonight and you will see some that are much worse

Yeah...watch 10 minutes of James Harden and it's basically Euro steps, pump fakes, and jumping into a defender. I have to agree that his is certainly one of the worst, but it happens too much in basketball.

Kfanarmy
12-07-2015, 01:43 PM
Not that I want to start a pity party for the CHeaters, but that offsides call at the end of the ACC Championship game was AWFUL! How is that non-reviewable?! It's certainly an encapsulation of the quality of ACC Football officiating this year...smh

KARMA....UNC will be studying that call for a while.

CameronBlue
12-07-2015, 01:48 PM
Yeah that call was atrocious. Forget that it's not reviewable cause I'm fine with that. What was the ref even looking at? It wasn't even close to being offside anywhere on the field! ACC or NCAA should investigate this imo cause it's awfully suspicious

There's nothing suspicious about it, just a blown call among hundreds that happen each week. If it was reviewable would it be any fairer that they missed this targeting hit on the same play?

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/eye-on-college-football/25402957/review-of-accs-offsides-call-reveals-a-targeting-penalty-on-unc

Atldukie79
12-07-2015, 01:49 PM
Well, after the UNC off-sides call, perhaps we can discount the possibility that Swofford hosed Duke in the Miami game because he bleeds baby blue. At least that is not the root cause for the atrocious, and visible, official screw-ups. Now whether the "get Clemson into the playoffs" conspiracy theory still lives...who knows.

I tend to think that the refs are simply not up to the task.

sagegrouse
12-07-2015, 01:53 PM
Well, after the UNC off-sides call, perhaps we can discount the possibility that Swofford hosed Duke in the Miami game because he bleeds baby blue. At least that is not the root cause for the atrocious, and visible, official screw-ups. Now whether the "get Clemson into the playoffs" conspiracy theory still lives...who knows.

I tend to think that the refs are simply not up to the task.

FWIW, the "off-sides call" is correct if any of the UNC players broke the plane of the 35 yard-line before the ball was kicked. The ACC said the official was in the correct position to make the call. There were no camera angles that provided that view, although it was apparent that no one stepped over the line before the kickoff.

uh_no
12-07-2015, 01:55 PM
I thought the player on the left of the Elon shooter grabbed the ball and caused the Elon player to stumble to his right -- I truly couldn't say whether it was a jump ball, a foul or full-fledged acting by the Elon player. I did note that the ref who raised his arm was screened from the play.

that's what i thought. i think the foul occurred far earlier...near the beginning of the shot before the elon player "stumbled" rather than because he jumped into the other guy.

Either way, if the D bites on a pump fake, the offense is going to get the call 9/10 times

JNort
12-07-2015, 01:56 PM
There's nothing suspicious about it, just a blown call among hundreds that happen each week. If it was reviewable would it be any fairer that they missed this targeting hit on the same play?

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/eye-on-college-football/25402957/review-of-accs-offsides-call-reveals-a-targeting-penalty-on-unc

I'm not necessarily saying it's suspicious but the circumstances are worth looking into. Targeting hits have much more room for error than offsides does. I mean this wasn't even close! UNC winning that game would have been awful for the ACC and when it looks like the gane might go their way.. voila a very very beneficial call for Clemson.

I wanted Clemson to win but the call is still one of the worst I've ever seen. Not as bad as Duke/Miami but it's the closest thing I've seen this year

Kfanarmy
12-07-2015, 01:58 PM
Well, after the UNC off-sides call, perhaps we can discount the possibility that Swofford hosed Duke in the Miami game because he bleeds baby blue. At least that is not the root cause for the atrocious, and visible, official screw-ups. Now whether the "get Clemson into the playoffs" conspiracy theory still lives...who knows.

I tend to think that the refs are simply not up to the task.

I don't know about that...it may be in Swofford's personal and professional interests that the national media aren't studying UNC for the next month!

nocilla
12-07-2015, 02:29 PM
I'm not necessarily saying it's suspicious but the circumstances are worth looking into. Targeting hits have much more room for error than offsides does. I mean this wasn't even close! UNC winning that game would have been awful for the ACC and when it looks like the gane might go their way.. voila a very very beneficial call for Clemson.

I wanted Clemson to win but the call is still one of the worst I've ever seen. Not as bad as Duke/Miami but it's the closest thing I've seen this year

Well I have seen it argued that the flag was legit. I have not looked up the rules, but supposedly the kickoff team is supposed to be lined up inside the 9 yard hash mark and at least 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage. One of the UNC players was lined up outside of the hash mark and several were lined up only 3 yards from the line of scrimmage.

As Duke95 shared in another thread;
5754

PackMan97
12-07-2015, 02:38 PM
Well I have seen it argued that the flag was legit. I have not looked up the rules, but supposedly the kickoff team is supposed to be lined up inside the 9 yard hash mark and at least 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage. One of the UNC players was lined up outside of the hash mark and several were lined up only 3 yards from the line of scrimmage.

As Duke95 shared in another thread;
5754

Yup! Wrong call, right outcome. UNC should have been flagged for illegal formation and had to kick again. I will cry no tears of sadness for UNC.

I grew up a Clemson fan and hating on Carolina (South), so this one was special.

Jim3k
12-07-2015, 03:00 PM
Yup! Wrong call, right outcome. UNC should have been flagged for illegal formation and had to kick again. I will cry no tears of sadness for UNC.



Right call; right outcome

The free kick rule:

Rule 6-1-2 ...


When the ball is kicked:

e. All players of Team A [kicking team] must have been between the nine-yard marks after the ready-for-play signal

One cheater was cheating as he was outside the nine-yard hash.

CDu
12-07-2015, 03:04 PM
I am sort of agnostic on the Elon play for a few reasons:

1. As others have mentioned, when you bite on the fake, the officials almost always call the defensive foul there
2. The shooter didn't really have to jump very far (maybe a foot or so) to get into the defender. That it is sideways is sort of irrelevant - he was facing sideways, so that was the direction he was going to have to jump to get the shot off around the big guy standing in front of him.
3. It is REALLY hard to see the play closely enough to tell when contact initiates between the shooter and #3. Does the defender's off-arm catch the shooter before the jump? The defender appears to swing downward at one point, does contact happen there?

Just really hard to say. That being said, it's not really high on the spectrum of bad calls. Officials blow plenty of calls as bad or worse throughout the course of the game. This one just happened to come at the end of a game and helped to clearly decide the outcome.

But really, my agnosticism (a word?) is more to do with the fact that officials do a pretty poor job of getting these calls right in general, so even if this is a bad call (and it very well could be) it isn't that unusually bad a call.

JNort
12-07-2015, 03:49 PM
Well I have seen it argued that the flag was legit. I have not looked up the rules, but supposedly the kickoff team is supposed to be lined up inside the 9 yard hash mark and at least 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage. One of the UNC players was lined up outside of the hash mark and several were lined up only 3 yards from the line of scrimmage.

As Duke95 shared in another thread;
5754

If that's true then they still got the call wrong. Should be illigal formation or somthing else right?

CDu
12-07-2015, 03:51 PM
If that's true then they still got the call wrong. Should be illigal formation or somthing else right?

Well, it's possible that they still got it right (a guy could ALSO have been offside), but missed the illegal formation.

CDu
12-07-2015, 03:54 PM
For point of reference, the officials TWICE missed a 12-men in the huddle on the Panthers in Sunday's Panthers/Saints game. The first time, they actually ALSO missed that Carolina had 12 men on the field at the snap of the ball. Only on replay did they correct that gaffe. Unfortunately, they missed one later as well. And these are the types of things that are extremely easy to get right.

Officiating is just having a bad, bad year.

killerleft
12-07-2015, 05:13 PM
I'm talking basketball, not football (nothing to match the end of the Duke-Miami game), but did anybody else see the final play of regulation in Elon's amazing come-from-behind victory over Kennesaw State?

Elon was down eight with 16 seconds left and somehow got it to three with four seconds left -- and they had the ball. Then this (check the video embedded in the story):

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/11/30/9824466/college-basketball-comeback-elon-phoenix-kennesaw

I've seen shooters jump into the defender and get the call, but in this case, the kid has to jump five feet sideways to make contact with the defender ... and he gets the call. He hits all three free throws to force OT and Elon dominates the OT for the win.

Note -- we play Elon on the 28th.

The guy with his hands in the air certainly brings his right arm down just as the Elon player begins to bring the ball up in a shooting motion. Perhaps more telling is the defender's lack of protest after the foul call. That view isn't ideal for seeing the foul for sure, but the ref probably got it correct.

-jk
12-07-2015, 06:31 PM
As best I could tell from the video, they called the foul on #3 - the guy he jumped into.

One of this year's points of emphasis:


Offensive Initiated Contact with Legal Defenders: In recent years, there has been an increase in offense initiated contact on drives to the basket. Offense initiated contact on a legal defender should not be rewarded with a defensive foul.

-jk

Olympic Fan
12-07-2015, 06:50 PM
Ken Pomeroy agrees that it was a terrible call. He also suggests that it was the worst call of the year (so far, at least):

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/week_in_review_11_27_12_31

I think his video link is clearer -- the Elon player not only jumps sideways to initiate the contact, he's not even facing the basket (he's squared up to the baseline). Even if you grant a foul (which the ref shouldn't have), it shouldn't have been a 3-shot foul because he's not shooting.

hudlow
12-07-2015, 07:05 PM
Officiating is just having a bad, bad year.

I think it's time to allow PEDs for officials...

burnspbesq
12-07-2015, 08:56 PM
There were a couple of extremely bad offside calls against the Duke women in the College Cup final, one of which snuffed out a wonderful opportunity for Payne to get in alone.

There was also an arguable penalty against Duke that went uncalled.