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View Full Version : I appreciate today's cover article.



Ima Facultiwyfe
12-04-2015, 03:39 PM
"First, while we understand that the Indiana fans bought tickets off of StubHub, we don't understand why so many Duke fans apparently sold theirs via the service. We don't think the system Duke has in place to reallocate tickets is working very well, so it's not a surprise that people do StubHub. But it changes the dynamic in Cameron.

We'd like to see Duke take a careful, thorough look at how the secondary market is handled. There has to be a better way to keep tickets in the hands of Duke fans when the ticket holders can't make it."

Didn't there used to be some sort of penalty for "selling out"? I thought you could lose your seat if it was found that you were selling it.

In addition, I don't think its as much that rank and file Iron Dukes are selling theirs. I don't think as many Duke fans are able to get tickets in the first place. It's more like corporations are contributing big bucks and giving away or reselling seats.

It's definitely true, though, that the space around the seats we've had since '69 has become significantly invaded.I sure would love to have more of US aroud me.

Love, Ima

sagegrouse
12-04-2015, 04:29 PM
Didn't there used to be some sort of penalty for "selling out"? I thought you could lose your seat if it was found that you were selling it.

In addition, I don't think its as much that rank and file Iron Dukes are selling theirs. I don't think as many Duke fans are able to get tickets in the first place. It's more like corporations are contributing big bucks and giving away or reselling seats.

It's definitely true, though, that the space around the seats we've had since '69 has become significantly invaded.I sure would love to have more of US aroud me.

Love, Ima

No and HELL NO. Season tickets and preferred seats are auctioned off via Iron Dukes contributions. Those who meet certain levels of support are entitled to buy a certain number of season tickets. There is no problem from the Iron Dukes perspective in giving seats to fans of other schools, or even, being fans of other schools. The ID mission is to raise funds for Duke athletics. (Although, to be fair, getting an acknowledgement of this from ID can be difficult.) The Iron Duke's position is not unreasonable, and there are lots of possible cases that aren't hard to understand. For example, Durham XYZ Co. might buy season tickets and then provide them to customers, who may be Duke fans or fans of the opposing school or just basketball fans. Or, some rich dudes may spring for season tickets at both Duke and Carolina just to have them available for friends -- or themselves.

Devil in the Blue Dress
12-04-2015, 05:00 PM
No and HELL NO. Season tickets and preferred seats are auctioned off via Iron Dukes contributions. Those who meet certain levels of support are entitled to buy a certain number of season tickets. There is no problem from the Iron Dukes perspective in giving seats to fans of other schools, or even, being fans of other schools. The ID mission is to raise funds for Duke athletics. (Although, to be fair, getting an acknowledgement of this from ID can be difficult.) The Iron Duke's position is not unreasonable, and there are lots of possible cases that aren't hard to understand. For example, Durham XYZ Co. might buy season tickets and then provide them to customers, who may be Duke fans or fans of the opposing school or just basketball fans. Or, some rich dudes may spring for season tickets at both Duke and Carolina just to have them available for friends -- or themselves.

The fundraising part is a pretty accurate portrayal of the mission of the Iron Dukes.

The point that Ima's making is that the make up of the crowd at the games has continued to change over the years. For years we knew the folks around us. As the old guard ceases to buy season tickets, they are replaced by buyers who provide a revolving door for folks to attend games in Cameron. Sometimes in my old section it's difficult to see the game because of the late arrival who can decipher even numbers on the left, odd numbers on the right. Many are rushing down to the rail in our line of sight for their selfies. They comport themselves like they're attending some sort of circus or viewing some sort of relic. (This is sort of tongue in cheek.) The result is an entirely different atmosphere than even 5 years ago. Years ago the attendees were there to see the game and cheer for Duke. Now this changing cast of folks is there to venerate the building and/or check off a bucket list item. The tourist like behavior detracts from an athletic event already heavily structured by TV time outs and other TV requirements or expectations. It feels scripted rather than spontaneous.

I know this may sound harsh and elitist to some, but the observations are based on my own experience... nearly 40 years in Cameron, 4 years downstairs and the rest upstairs.

DukeDevilDeb
12-04-2015, 09:39 PM
The fundraising part is a pretty accurate portrayal of the mission of the Iron Dukes.

The point that Ima's making is that the make up of the crowd at the games has continued to change over the years. For years we knew the folks around us. As the old guard ceases to buy season tickets, they are replaced by buyers who provide a revolving door for folks to attend games in Cameron. Sometimes in my old section it's difficult to see the game because of the late arrival who can decipher even numbers on the left, odd numbers on the right. Many are rushing down to the rail in our line of sight for their selfies. They comport themselves like they're attending some sort of circus or viewing some sort of relic. (This is sort of tongue in cheek.) The result is an entirely different atmosphere than even 5 years ago. Years ago the attendees were there to see the game and cheer for Duke. Now this changing cast of folks is there to venerate the building and/or check off a bucket list item. The tourist like behavior detracts from an athletic event already heavily structured by TV time outs and other TV requirements or expectations. It feels scripted rather than spontaneous.

I know this may sound harsh and elitist to some, but the observations are based on my own experience... nearly 40 years in Cameron, 4 years downstairs and the rest upstairs.

I second this! We had so many Indiana Fans around us at the last game, I almost forgot we were in Cameron. There are two sets of two tickets right behind us in Section 8 that are always used by difference people who are ALWAYS fans of the opposing team. I haven't spent 40 years in Cameron, but the end of this season will be my 30th. And I long for the decorum (maybe not the right work) that used to prevail. Watching the game is the most important thing... not selfies or texting or standing up and waving to a friend in section 13 who might or might not see you. Sigh.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
12-04-2015, 09:53 PM
I am happy to offer myself as an alternative to "selling out." Never been to a game in Cameron. Will promise to wear lots of the right color blue, cheer for the right team, and never sit down.

msdukie
12-04-2015, 10:26 PM
The Iron Dukes have repeatedly made it clear in writing that you can lose your tickets for unauthorized resale and they give you than warning when you buy off the ticket exchange site too. Now, actually enforcing this is a whole other issue.

sagegrouse
12-04-2015, 10:34 PM
The Iron Dukes have repeatedly made it clear in writing that you can lose your tickets for unauthorized resale and they give you than warning when you buy off the ticket exchange site too. Now, actually enforcing this is a whole other issue.

But you can give the tickets to anyone you want.

Jim3k
12-05-2015, 01:24 AM
The Iron Dukes have repeatedly made it clear in writing that you can lose your tickets for unauthorized resale and they give you than warning when you buy off the ticket exchange site too. Now, actually enforcing this is a whole other issue.

Isn't this mostly about squelching scalping? (Again, hard to enforce.)

summerwind03
12-05-2015, 04:20 AM
To any Duke fans who want to come to a game but don't have tickets...tickets are almost always available outside before the games, for face value, usually. Especially non-ACC games and 9 pm games. Or check out DBR's Ticket Exchange.

lmb
12-05-2015, 10:47 AM
To any Duke fans who want to come to a game but don't have tickets...tickets are almost always available outside before the games, for face value, usually. Especially non-ACC games and 9 pm games. Or check out DBR's Ticket Exchange.

Mostly true. My husband and I have traveled down to games 5 or 6 times without tickets. There was only one time we didn't get tickets. If you're by yourself, you can always find a single ticket for face value. As I said, we were able to get 2 tickets seated together most times we came. We have two boys that we've brought to Cameron twice, but only during the holiday break. Any other time would be really difficult to get 4 or 2 pairs. I have tried the ticket exchange here and have only been able to get tickets once. What a relief to have them in hand before we arrived!

The time we didn't get in, we could have paid $150 per ticket from a scalper but we couldn't afford it and it was a matter of principle for us anyway. If I remember correctly, it was against Wake Forest in a year that they really stunk. So not a highly sought after matchup. My husband was stationed at the Iron Duke parking lot. I was down by Cameron. We were both bedecked in Duke gear. An Iron Duke lady was approaching and my husband walked toward her. A scalper snuck in first and the lady agreed to sell her extras to him. My husband tried to tell her that this dude was a scalper but she sheepishly replied that he asked first and she already agreed to sell to him. It really bothers me that these guys, and you can spot them a mile away, are allowed to prowl the parking lots and sidewalks near the stadium and no one bothers them. They are taking viable tickets from Iron Dukes for face value and jacking up the price to the gullible coming for the first time. Plus, it takes the tickets out of the hands of those of us who traveled 5 hours for the chance to see the team they've cheered on for 30 years! :mad:

I imagine it would be much easier to crack down on these guys than it would the online action.

fuse
12-05-2015, 10:53 AM
If Duke / Iron Dukes are concerned about the changing dynamic in Cameron, there is a simple solution:

Make tickets more affordable, which runs counter to fund raising.

A fellow Duke alumni and I split tickets back when the two ticket contribution was 4K, and the only way we did this was because Nortel at the time had a donor match which dropped our cost to 2K plus tickets, which I think was about 500 for both seats.

My wife and I are both alums, and both our kids are rabid fans.
To get 4 tickets is a minimum 16K(?) donation plus another 2K for the tickets.

For one season, I can buy a world class home theatre system that won't need updates for 5+ years and I can enjoy an adult beverage or two as well as share the experience with my friends and other local alums.

My intent is not to suggest that scalping / opposing fans should be a welcome change to the Cameron mystique, or sour grapes at all. Duke is doing what is best for the program and school, and I respect that.

If I could get 4 seats in Cameron for about 1K each, I'd figure out what I could cut out of the budget elsewhere and be there every game. I don't have 20K of discretionary funds each year for tickets and I am happy for those that do.
Since that is not, or ever will be reality in the K era, those that have worked hard enough to enjoy the Cameron experience are going to have to come to grips that companies buy seats and give them away, some people pay just to see Duke/UNC and sell the other tickets to offset the cost.

If Duke only wants ticket owners in seats, then extend the biometrics on K tower for entrance to Cameron.
That will kill the secondary market quickly.

Go Duke!

Devil in the Blue Dress
12-05-2015, 11:35 AM
Mostly true. My husband and I have traveled down to games 5 or 6 times without tickets. There was only one time we didn't get tickets. If you're by yourself, you can always find a single ticket for face value. As I said, we were able to get 2 tickets seated together most times we came. We have two boys that we've brought to Cameron twice, but only during the holiday break. Any other time would be really difficult to get 4 or 2 pairs. I have tried the ticket exchange here and have only been able to get tickets once. What a relief to have them in hand before we arrived!

The time we didn't get in, we could have paid $150 per ticket from a scalper but we couldn't afford it and it was a matter of principle for us anyway. If I remember correctly, it was against Wake Forest in a year that they really stunk. So not a highly sought after matchup. My husband was stationed at the Iron Duke parking lot. I was down by Cameron. We were both bedecked in Duke gear. An Iron Duke lady was approaching and my husband walked toward her. A scalper snuck in first and the lady agreed to sell her extras to him. My husband tried to tell her that this dude was a scalper but she sheepishly replied that he asked first and she already agreed to sell to him. It really bothers me that these guys, and you can spot them a mile away, are allowed to prowl the parking lots and sidewalks near the stadium and no one bothers them. They are taking viable tickets from Iron Dukes for face value and jacking up the price to the gullible coming for the first time. Plus, it takes the tickets out of the hands of those of us who traveled 5 hours for the chance to see the team they've cheered on for 30 years! :mad:

I imagine it would be much easier to crack down on these guys than it would the online action.
About 15 years ago the scalpers had become especially aggressive and bold... they were standing just outside the exit door accosting people as they'd leave one game regarding tickets for the next game. Flyers were being distributed giving an 800 telephone number along with a range of prices the scalper's "company" would pay...depending on location... I checked out the contact information and it was a business of a sort engaged in buying and selling tickets.

Since selling a ticket for more than a slight markup over face value ($5?) is illegal in NC, I decided to contact an officer I knew in the Durham police department. He referred me to the Duke University Police because they have jurisdiction... so I did. It turned out so had many others. Soon after staffing for games was increased and officers were stationed to force scalpers out of/away from the Iron Duke lots near Cameron to other locations making it possible to get inside without going through a gauntlet of scalpers.

Regarding the matter of ticket holders being permitted to give their tickets away, I did that on a few rare occasions only to find out later the acquaintance or friend had sold them sometimes at quite a markup. Needless to say, those folks were dropped from my friends list!

Scrapman
12-05-2015, 12:35 PM
Longtime reader - first time poster - 1970 Duke engineering grad.

I have a friend who is an Iron Duke and contributes a good deal of money in order to purchase his very good seats in Cameron, and I am fortunate that he occasionally invites me to share them with him. He sometimes has extra tickets and refuses to sell them above face value. After selling tickets at face value and finding someone else in the seats, he devised a solution to the problem of scalpers:

He selects people that he believes are Duke fans and requires them to enter Cameron with him. They pay him first, but he does not give them the tickets until after the ticket taker has torn them, and they have both entered Cameron. Obviously, the tickets can no longer be scalped, and the purchaser is verified to be attending the game and not a scalper. If other Iron Dukes would adopt this policy, it would help limit the problem of opposing school fans in Cameron, and provide opportunities for Duke fans to see a game.

Kimist
12-05-2015, 05:24 PM
While I don't quite go to the lengths that Scrapman mentioned, I always tell the purchaser of an extra ticket they must walk through the door with me. (I already know who the scalpers are.) Only on rare events have I had someone "change their mind."

I've been known to exchange my pair for a single the other person has already bought, but person would like to sit with son/daughter, significant other, etc. I don't mind doing that except I'm too old to stand up through the game with the downstairs crowd. Does that make me a "crustie" or whatever the term was??

Remember actual season ticket costs, for the cheapest seats, are currently around $1,400 each. The only breakoff ($10 difference?) is essentially ACC / non-ACC games. This means that the lesser opponents, to include exhibition games, still are reasonably costly. (I think the going rate for available floor seats - such as during holidays/breaks - is now ~$80 per seat?) And parking always adds another $10 or so to the game experience. Even those who know where campus on-street parking is are not allowed to park there prior to games.

The IN game was a late night game. Even for people who live in the nearby areas, that means they got home VERY late and many had to crawl out of bed and go to work the following day. Having a Saturday afternoon game with a chance to walk around campus and visit some old digs has now become a rarity.

The Iron Dukes does have a member ticket exchange, both for the return of unused tickets and purchase (at face value) of extras. When time allows, I've used both options.

Yes, many seats are owned by local businesses and tickets are distributed. . .well. . .as they deem fit. Two seats near me always have had different people in them, except for the cheaters game when members of the Orange Kounty Kommunity Kollege (obnoxiously) occupied the seats.

I've been attending games (as a non-student) since the G-man years. Yes, things are quite different now. But, life goes on. . .

Just my 2¢ worth.

k

-jk
12-05-2015, 06:45 PM
The seats next to me are owned by a guy who lives in Florida, who turns almost all of his tix in to the ID. I've had a parade of interesting folks sitting next to me:

A couple NFL/BC football alums who won the tix in an auction. Various old alums coming home. Dan Quayle. The occasional odd friends of the guy. But almost always someone different. It's interesting, anyway.

Then there're the seats a little behind me that always has a unc fan or two sitting there for the unc games. <blech>

-jk