This Week in the ACC: 11/30-12/6

[pfrduke]

So all told the ACC won 5 preseason tournaments and got some solid victories in the ones they didn't win (albeit with some unfortunate losses as well). This week has the last set of consolidated major non-conference activity until March rolls around. I, for one, hope we put the B1G down decisively (Pomeroy predicts it as 9-5 ACC, which sounds great to me).

Monday
[75]Wake Forest at [222]Rutgers (7:00, ESPNU)
[50]Clemson at [94]Minnesota (9:00, ESPN2)

Tuesday
[57]NC State hosts [35]Michigan (7:00, ESPN2)
[138]Virginia Tech hosts [67]Northwestern (7:00, ESPNU)
[86]Georgia Tech hosts [182]Wofford (7:00, ESPN3)
[3]Virginia at [73]Ohio State (7:30, ESPN)
[32]Pittsburgh hosts [8]Purdue (9:00, ESPN2)
[17]Miami at [100]Nebraska (9:00, ESPNU)
[7]North Carolina hosts [21]Maryland (9:30, ESPN)

Wednesday
[50]Clemson hosts [304]USC Upstate (7:00, ESPN3)
[11]Louisville at [6]Michigan State (7:15, ESPN)
[26]Syracuse hosts [37]Wisconsin (7:15, ESPN2)
[192]Boston College hosts [180]Penn State (7:15, ESPNU)
[5]Duke hosts [25]Indiana (9:15, ESPN)
[28]Notre Dame at [82]Illinois (9:15, ESPN2)
[39]Florida State at [20]Iowa (9:15, ESPNU)

Thursday is dark

Friday
[32]Pittsburgh vs. [114]Duquesne in Pittsburgh (7:00, CBSSN)
[75]Wake Forest hosts [117]Arkansas (7:00, ESPN3)

Saturday
[57]NC State hosts [161]Bucknell (12:00, ESPN3)
[11]Louisville hosts [205]Grand Canyon (12:00, ESPN3)
[26]Syracuse at [31]Georgetown (1:00, FOX)
[3]Virginia hosts [81]William & Mary (2:00, ESPN3)
[138]Virginia Tech hosts [328]Arkansas-Pine Bluff (3:00, ESPN3)
[17]Miami hosts [283]Charlotte (4:00, ESPN3)
[86]Georgia Tech at [214]Tulane (5:00, CBSSN)
[5]Duke hosts [160]Buffalo (5:15, ESPN2)

Sunday
[32]Pittsburgh hosts [308]Central Arkansas (12:00, ESPN3)
[192]Boston College hosts [325]UMass Lowell (2:00, ESPN3)
[50]Clemson vs. [182]Wofford in Greenville (2:00, ESPN3)
[39]Florida State vs. [40]Virginia Commonwealth in Atlanta (2:00, ESPNU)
[7]UNC hosts [64]Davidson (6:00, ESPNU)

ACC Non-Conf: 67-19
ACC vs. Power 6: 15-7
AAC: 2-0
AEC: 3-0
A-10: 4-3
A-Sun: 2-1
Big 12: 1-1
Big East: 3-1
Big South: 1-0
B1G: 4-1
Big West: 1-1
CAA: 1-3
CUSA: 3-0
Horizon: 3-0
Ivy: 4-0
MAAC: 2-0
MAC: 2-0
MEAC: 3-0
MVC: 1-1
MWC: 1-0
NEC: 5-1
OVC: 1-0
Pac-12: 2-1
Patriot: 3-0
SEC: 5-3
Southern: 3-0
Southland: 1-0
Summit: 1-0
Sun Belt: 2-0
SWAC: 1-1
WAC: 1-0
WCC: 0-1
Non-D1: 1-0

[CDu]

Wait, you're telling me that Syracuse is playing a pre-conference ROAD game? Against a quality opponent? What!?!?!?

[Olympic Fan]

Wait, you're telling me that Syracuse is playing a pre-conference ROAD game? Against a quality opponent? What!?!?!?

Ahh ... glass houses ... stones

[Troublemaker]

I, for one, hope we put the B1G down decisively (Pomeroy predicts it as 9-5 ACC, which sounds great to me).

That would be nice.

I usually don't root for other conference teams mostly out of immature spite since their fans don't root for Duke when we play.

But this year the conference has a legitimate shot at being widely recognized as the best conference in the country. A decisive win in the Challenge would help build that reputation.

And then if Duke can win a regular season or conference title in the ACC, our glory would be so much greater.

[BullBlue]

Wake over Rutgers 69-68. Devon Thomas with 23 pts, 17 rbs.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Wake is quietly building a very respectable nonconference record. Nice to see Manning getting some traction.

[Troublemaker]

A 1-1 split on the first day. I'll take it considering Wake had to come back from a 12-point second-half deficit on the road to win. Clemson lost in a surprisingly entertaining and high-scoring game at Minnesota, 89-83.

[tbyers11]

A 1-1 split on the first day. I'll take it considering Wake had to come back from a 12-point second-half deficit on the road to win. Clemson lost in a surprisingly entertaining and high-scoring game at Minnesota, 89-83.

Props to Wake for coming back from a 12 point deficit, but man was that game ugly. I watched the 2nd half and it looked like a bad AAU game. Both teams were turning the ball over, taking bad shots, and committing dumb fouls. Rutgers couldn't miss at the beginning of the 2nd half, but then Wake hit consecutive 3s and remembered to get the ball to Thomas, who was by far the best player on the floor.

Wake played good ball against quality teams in Maui and when they get Miller-McIntyre back they will be a tough out, especially at home, but that game last night was hard to watch.

[CDu]

Props to Wake for coming back from a 12 point deficit, but man was that game ugly. I watched the 2nd half and it looked like a bad AAU game. Both teams were turning the ball over, taking bad shots, and committing dumb fouls. Rutgers couldn't miss at the beginning of the 2nd half, but then Wake hit consecutive 3s and remembered to get the ball to Thomas, who was by far the best player on the floor.

Wake played good ball against quality teams in Maui and when they get Miller-McIntyre back they will be a tough out, especially at home, but that game last night was hard to watch.

Yeah, Rutgers might be the worst team in power conference basketball. Wake was without their best perimeter player, but they still should have handled that game more easily. Especially with, as you mentioned, Devin Thomas being the best player on the floor by a wide margin. Still, a win is infinitely better than a loss.

Glad they won - a split is tolerable there, but falling down 0-2 against two of the worst teams in the Big-10 would have been bad.

Today brings a couple of interesting games: UNC vs Maryland obviously pits two of the conferences' top teams, State vs Michigan pits two middle-of-the-road teams, and Purdue vs Pittsburgh will provide us our first glimpse of Pitt against a real opponent. Miami should beat Nebraska, UVa should beat OSU, and Va Tech should lose to Northwestern.

[moonpie23]

acccckkkk......(gagging a little bit)


GO TURTLES....

[toughbuff1]

Go Earthquake!

[CameronBornAndBred]

I'd say I want to see Sulaimon take the winning shot, but I'd rather see the Heels lose by 20. Rasheed can sink a buzzer beater at half time.

[Kfanarmy]

I'd say I want to see Sulaimon take the winning shot, but I'd rather see the Heels lose by 20. Rasheed can sink a buzzer beater at half time.

You've found something positive about the game in any case. I think it'll be a good game. I'm gonna say MD by 5.

[jv001]

I'll be rooting for the twerps over the cheaters any day of the week. GoDuke

[Henderson]

I'm looking for: 0-0 tie when the refs give up after 23 overtimes. Roy tearfully confesses after the game that he knew about and approved the cheating all along. Marcus Paige admits that the "broken hand" thing was a stunt. Maryland fans burn all their own cars and homes and throw batteries at their own families. The Terp administration bars fan attendance at any Maryland sporting event, vows to expel any student who complains, and pays the ACC what it owes.

[Olympic Fan]

I don' see why any Duke fan has a problem with this ...

Yeah, most Maryland fans are obnoxious and the school behaved deceitfully when he bolted the ACC, but there never was a time when Maryland was close to UNC as a rival for Duke.

Now they are just another team in another league. I'll save my hate for when we play them.

UNC, on the other hand, is the scum of the earth -- one of the most corrupt athletic programs in sports. We have to compete against those cheating scumbags in the ACC.

There's no contest. I don't need to say, "Go Terps" ... all I need to say is GTHC!

[budwom]

I miss Maryland a wee bit, only because I loved seeing us beat them, I loved the Jason Williams last minute crazy comeback, the coming from WAY back in the
NCAA semis (?), beating them in the ACC Tournament and then taunting the muttering, dyspeptic, ref blaming Robert Novak on the Hertz bus, whaling the
tar out of them in Cameron one time, breaking to something like a 38-4 lead with Sweaty Williams tossed before we could even settle
into our seats. Good times, those.

[hudlow]

Holding my nose while shouting "ABC !!!!!"

[MChambers]

Go Earthquake!

Meteor should be more localized. Failing that, I'll root for Rasheed to sink the game winner.

[moonpie23]

Meteor should be more localized. Failing that, I'll root for Rasheed to sink the game winner.

well, that would be nice, i could also go with rasheed dropping 40 on them while breaking paige's legs on a crossover

[Atldukie79]

While I agree with all of the above comments (and I wish I had articulated some of them), they are all from our (legitimate) emotion.
From a practical point of view, a UNC win enhances the conference, increases other ACC team's SOS, and when we beat them, we are beating a top 5 team.

Sigh...but I still want them to lose.
So there.

[howardlander]

Aside from the obvious rooting interest we have in this game, I've been thinking about who "needs" the game more. I never like to put too much emphasis on November or December games, but I think it would certainly be a worse loss for UNC than for Maryland. UNC wants to think of themselves as title contenders; they are at full strength and if they can't beat Maryland, who has really not looked that impressive so far, at home, they could well be looking at another 8 - 12 loss season. For Maryland, it's a road game against the team many had as preseason #1, so a loss really won't hurt too badly.

I haven't seen that much of either team, so I won't try to pick the game. But when was UNC's last truly impressive win?

Howard

[rasputin]

Aside from the obvious rooting interest we have in this game, I've been thinking about who "needs" the game more. I never like to put too much emphasis on November or December games, but I think it would certainly be a worse loss for UNC than for Maryland. UNC wants to think of themselves as title contenders; they are at full strength and if they can't beat Maryland, who has really not looked that impressive so far, at home, they could well be looking at another 8 - 12 loss season. For Maryland, it's a road game against the team many had as preseason #1, so a loss really won't hurt too badly.

I haven't seen that much of either team, so I won't try to pick the game. But when was UNC's last truly impressive win?

Howard

As to the bolded question, do you mean when they did or didn't cheat?

[howardlander]

As to the bolded question, do you mean when they did or didn't cheat?

Well, that's an excellent question isn't it? Not cheating, it's been a while. I was really thinking of cheating inclusive :)

[MChambers]

Tough break for UVa, but better now than in March:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/12/01/london-perrantes-will-miss-virginias-game-at-ohio-state-after-having-his-appendix-removed/

Word is Bennett is going to have the rest of the team have theirs removed over the holiday break, just to get ahead of this thing.

[wilson]

I miss Maryland a wee bit, only because I loved seeing us beat them, I loved the Jason Williams last minute crazy comeback, the coming from WAY back in the
NCAA semis (?), beating them in the ACC Tournament and then taunting the muttering, dyspeptic, ref blaming Robert Novak on the Hertz bus, whaling the
tar out of them in Cameron one time, breaking to something like a 38-4 lead with Sweaty Williams tossed before we could even settle
into our seats. Good times, those.I can agree with the above, and I'd add to the list blowing them out at the combination of Coach K's 63rd birthday party and Brian Zoubek's coming-out party (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=300440150).

[OldPhiKap]

Is Paige playing?

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Is Paige playing?

Yes.

This is a big game. And it's a good test for UNC to see if they are as good as I think they can be.

The first thing I will look for is focus and intensity. This class of players has not yet proven as a team the ability to take the fight to another team. They need to show they can set the tone and the pace, not just react.

They have so far this season accepted the pace the other team dictates and played a "tactical" game looking for creases in the defense, probing.. but not attacking off the dribble. With Paige back in the lineup, and a deeper bench, I expect to see much more aggression attacking the basket than we've been seeing.

I expect Roy will sub a lot. And I'd bet nine players will see at least 5 minutes. It's his MO early in the season to have players experience big moments, and he has some young, key players like Pinson and Berry who need prime time burn after the injuries held them back last season.

Brice Johnson is due for a big game and since I think UNC has an edge in the post, Roy will really have them running plays for the bigs.

I expect him to start Berry at PG, Paige at 2g, Jackson at WF, Meeks and Johnson in the post.

Defensively the have to stay in front of Trimble and keep him from getting "downhill" to the rim. Push him to the wings.

UNC needs to be aggressive on the offensive boards too.

[CDu]

Rough start to Tuesday for the ACC. State, Va Tech, and Ga Tech sll down at the half. State has a glimmer of hope though with Michigan potentially losing their only PG to injury. And Ga Tech has hope by virtue of playing a lesser team. Hopefully the second halves bode better.

Whoops - misread the box score. Ga Tech is noe up by 2 at the half, so that is good.

[weezie]

Holy moley, espn just showed holes warming up in their barftastic shirts. Really awful and that's a new low in awful.

[CDu]

Fitting - one of the two games I actually wanted the Big-10 to win is going to OT as Va Tech came back to tie. Hopefully Coach Collins works some magic in OT!

[miramar]

I turned on the game and found that I disliked Maryland even more than UNC.

I wasn't expecting that, but I'm sure I'll get over it soon enough.

[eddiehaskell]

is it just me or is Trimble a terrible ball handler? He seems to dribble into defenders instead of away from them. Rasheed looks bad too - puts his head down and tries to force it against bigs...like Allen against Kentucky. Maybe they'll get it going.

[Furniture]

The heels are looking strong and deep so far....
The booing of Rasheed is very feeble by the wine and cheese crowd...

[Billy Dat]

Love the huge chorus of boos Rasheed is getting at the Dome, the Duke love rolls on.

UNC's size is formidable. Maryland's ridiculous # of turnovers isn't helping. Maryland staying wothin reach despite playing poorly.

[ChillinDuke]

is it just me or is Trimble a terrible ball handler? He seems to dribble into defenders instead of away from them. Rasheed looks bad too - puts his head down and tries to force it against bigs...like Allen against Kentucky. Maybe they'll get it going.

It's just you.

I keed.

But seriously, I'm not sure exactly which plays you're referring to but Trimble is good.

- Chillin

[Troublemaker]

UNC fans booing Sheed every time he touches the ball brings a smile to my face. Obsession.

[Billy Dat]

Credit to the Terps for hanging tough, being down 6 after that first 10 mins is a win. I am very impressed with Rasheed's playmaking. As Bilas and now Greenberg are saying, they started springing their guards with high ball screens which got those bigs scrambling and opened things up. Also agree with Greenberg that Roy is playing too many guys - it felt like Meeks and Johnson were barely out there. Happy for Paige who looks good and seems like a good kid.

[Potato Head]

Also agree with Greenberg that Roy is playing too many guys

Was thinking about this imagining us playing them. Their depth is their biggest strength but it definitely could also work against them if so many players need minutes that important players can't get into a rhythm.

[ChillinDuke]

Well, Collins pulled off the road win over VT. NC St pulled off a solid home loss.


But other than that the ACC is holding up alright. UVA survived on the road at OSU. Miami is up on Nebraska. Unc whatever. And Pitt has been stride for stride with Purdue.

Also GT ended up running away from Wofford.

Gotta keep an eye on Pitt and Miami here. Wins from those two would be huge, even if Miami's is expected.

- Chillin

[eddiehaskell]

But seriously, I'm not sure exactly which plays you're referring to but Trimble is good.

- ChillinHaven't watched him much so I definitely wont disagree. He did have 4 turnovers in the first half though...1 less than UNC's entire starting 5.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Credit to the Terps for hanging tough, being down 6 after that first 10 mins is a win. I am very impressed with Rasheed's playmaking. As Bilas and now Greenberg are saying, they started springing their guards with high ball screens which got those bigs scrambling and opened things up. Also agree with Greenberg that Roy is playing too many guys - it felt like Meeks and Johnson were barely out there. Happy for Paige who looks good and seems like a good kid.

Best defensive intensity from the Heels we've seen all season. Most of those TO's were pressured by defense, not just careless passes or dribbling.

UNC attacking the rim as I had hoped we'd see, and the bigs are dominating the inside.

I think we will see Jackson be more involved offensively 2nd half and hunt his shot more.

Roy is going to keep subbing and demand his players play, especially from the bench. It's what he does and how he coaches. If they keep the same intensity the 2nd half, when it comes down to the last 7 minutes of the game MD will likely show signs of fatigue and UNC will be playing starters relatively fresh.

One other note: Paige is a tough little SOB.

[subzero02]

What a game.... this has the feel of a true heavyweight matchup. You can tell how badly Rasheed wants this one.

[jacone21]

How can you go out wearing a baby blue sweater vest and still retain any self respect? I just don't get it. #9F

[Dukehky]

Layman was terrible all night. We can bash other teams' players right?

Trimble is the reason his team is still in this game, along with Rasheed, who has been spectacular in my opinion. Most of Paige's points have come off truly poor help defense, switching.

Trimble is also the reason this lead is so big. He has had so many bad turnovers. His finishing at the rim is typically very good, but it has not been tonight.

[subzero02]

Layman was terrible all night. We can bash other teams' players right?

Only if you put it in layman's terms...

[ChillinDuke]

Layman was terrible all night. We can bash other teams' players right?

Trimble is the reason his team is still in this game, along with Rasheed, who has been spectacular in my opinion. Most of Paige's points have come off truly poor help defense, switching.

Trimble is also the reason this lead is so big. He has had so many bad turnovers. His finishing at the rim is typically very good, but it has not been tonight.

This was exactly how I saw it as well. Agree with it all.

- Chillin

[Billy Dat]

Highly entertaining 2nd half until the end. Great win for the Heels. Paige is very good and the clear leader. I was impressed by Berry and Pinson's play. Paige, Berry, Jackson, Meeks, Johnson, Berry, Pinson and then Hicks, James and Britt, they have a lot of rotation guys but they are night and day depending on Paige playing which makes sense.

Maryland got too 3 happy and missed open looks, their bigs have to produce more for them to be title contenders.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

UNC's defense won this game. It was very good all night, with only a couple of breakdowns.

The game was played at the highest level of play that I've seen this season since the Mich. ST/Kansas game I saw earlier.

Both teams are for real. MD shot some clutch 3's to stay within reach when most teams would have wilted under UNC's pressure tonight.

Both are final four quality teams.

[Dukehky]

UNC's defense won this game. It was very good all night, with only a couple of breakdowns.

The game was played at the highest level of play that I've seen this season since the Mich. ST/Kansas game I saw earlier.

Both teams are for real. MD shot some clutch 3's to stay within reach when most teams would have wilted under UNC's pressure tonight.

Both are final four quality teams.

Agreed on all points, which speaks to how down college basketball is this year...

Seriously, Britt and Berry especially are really improved and it becomes more obvious with Paige on the floor. Meeks looks useful with that lost weight.

Brice Johnson has yet to score a point in his college career without making a scene.

Pinson has turned into an asset and Jackson is rock solid. UNC is a really good team. I think the jury is still out on Maryland though. They got beat by double digits (essentially) and made infinity threes. They have no bench to speak of. I wouldn't want to see them in particular, but I don't think they're that good... yet anyway.

[eddiehaskell]

Brice Johnson has yet to score a point in his college career without making a scene.
Very annoying....as is Meeks constantly smiling when they're winning.

[Trey21]

Paige is a baller we knew that. If UNC doesn't win this year, I'm interested in what his legacy will be over there once his career is finished. No doubt he'll be adored for his heart, personality, and clutch play, but perhaps people will think he deserved better teams? Dude's been carrying them for pretty much his whole career and they just haven't had typical Carolina success.

Berry looks way improved. Meeks was active (insert joke). Jackson looked a little out of sync, but once him and Paige figure out a balance on offense with a dash of Johnson, UNC will be pretty darn good.

I know its early but Maryland didn't anything like a number two team. I mean they're good, but good Lord the turnovers and interior defense/rebounding were pretty terrible judging by the feel of the game. Sheed played pretty well - forced the issue but dude always comes to play for big games and I think that mentality will help him this last year and potentially in the league. Trimble for better or for worse did a lot for the Terps tonight. Played well but those turnovers...

All in all, I don't know if its just because the NBA has gotten so much better and enjoyable, but this is a really down year in terms of quality for college ball. It'll be fun to watch these teams grow, but there's gonna be some (*ahem more) rough games for sure. No clearly dominate team like UK, Wisconsin, or Duke last year. MSU is playing the best ball right now I think.

[Troublemaker]

One other note: Paige is a tough little SOB.

Yup. Everyone knows about his offense but he's very underrated defensively, too. He's somewhat terrifying helping off the ball, and ball handlers have to be so careful when driving into his area lest they get stripped.

Good win, Wheat. You guys look like the ACC favorites to me.

[Troublemaker]

The Challenge is tied 4-4 right now, but that's sort of a win for the Big 10. Over the past two days, there were 4 games where the pregame point spread was 2 points or less (basically tossups), and the Big 10 went 4-0 in those games. Of the 4 ACC wins, the ACC team had been favored by at least 6 points in all of them, and we were kind of fortunate not to be upset in two of those wins (Wake and Miami).

Anyway, in tomorrow's games, the ACC is favored in 4 of 6 games. It'd be sort of sad to allow the Big 10 to pull off a tie or a win in this year's Challenge.

[Olympic Fan]

I was disappointed to come out of the second day 4-4 (3-3 for Tuesday's six games), basically because we had a 4-2 edge in home games played Tuesday, We split the two overtime games. Oddly, the ACC has a better record in road games so far (3-1) than in home games (1-3 ... UNC is the only home ACC to win; Minnesota is the only home Big Ten team to win).

I have hopes of winning the Challenge Wednesday, I feel good about Duke (over Indiana), Syracuse (over Wisconsin) and Notre Dame (over Illinois). I also feel Michigan State should beat Louisville and Penn State should beat Northwestern.

If that happens, the ACC has a 7-6 edge and the Challenge turns on the Florida State at Iowa game ... I think that one is a true tossup.

So either we win 8-6 or it's a 7-7 tie. That's my guess.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I was disappointed to come out of the second day 4-4 (3-3 for Tuesday's six games), basically because we had a 4-2 edge in home games played Tuesday, We split the two overtime games. Oddly, the ACC has a better record in road games so far (3-1) than in home games (1-3 ... UNC is the only home ACC to win; Minnesota is the only home Big Ten team to win).

I have hopes of winning the Challenge Wednesday, I feel good about Duke (over Indiana), Syracuse (over Wisconsin) and Notre Dame (over Illinois). I also feel Michigan State should beat Louisville and Penn State should beat Northwestern.

If that happens, the ACC has a 7-6 edge and the Challenge turns on the Florida State at Iowa game ... I think that one is a true tossup.

So either we win 8-6 or it's a 7-7 tie. That's my guess.
BC plays penn state and FSU plays Iowa. Those are the games you're missing above.

[CDu]

I was disappointed to come out of the second day 4-4 (3-3 for Tuesday's six games), basically because we had a 4-2 edge in home games played Tuesday, We split the two overtime games. Oddly, the ACC has a better record in road games so far (3-1) than in home games (1-3 ... UNC is the only home ACC to win; Minnesota is the only home Big Ten team to win).

I have hopes of winning the Challenge Wednesday, I feel good about Duke (over Indiana), Syracuse (over Wisconsin) and Notre Dame (over Illinois). I also feel Michigan State should beat Louisville and Penn State should beat Northwestern.

If that happens, the ACC has a 7-6 edge and the Challenge turns on the Florida State at Iowa game ... I think that one is a true tossup.

So either we win 8-6 or it's a 7-7 tie. That's my guess.

I agree with your expected outcome. I think the Notre Dame/Illinois and (moreso) FSU/Iowa games are the only ones in doubt, with Louisville holding a small chance at an upset.

I was not disappointed in the 4-4 split so far, though, because frankly all of the games' outcomes were as expected (though the scores may not have been). Wake beat Rutgers, Clemson lost at Minnesota, Northwestern beat Va Tech, State lost to Michigan, Pitt lost to Purdue, Miami beat Nebraska, UNC won at home against Maryland, and UVa won at OSU. Of those games, only State was facing a somewhat similarly-talented opponent at home and lost. Everyone else either won, or lost to a better team (Pitt, Va Tech), or lost to a similar team on the road (Clemson). Though I guess some of my lack of disappointment may come from not having too high an opinion of State to begin with, so the loss wasn't a big surprise.

I was impressed with the amount of fight Va Tech gave Northwestern. Blacksburg is not a fun place to play, and Northwestern is still not established, but I expected that game to be a more comfy win for the Wildcats. Similarly, UNC looked quite god in their win over Maryland in a game that lived up to the hype. I was disappointed in Miami's performance at Nebraska, but thankfully they pulled out the win anyway sort of like Wake did Monday. An ugly win is still better than a loss.

Like you, I think we stand a strong chance of avoiding another loss in the challenge, with a draw or an 8-6 win being the most likely scenarios.

[sagegrouse]

It's important that the ACC win the challenge, because it is the biggest source of data for aligning the ACC with other conferences when it comes times for tournament selection. (I think everyone recognizes that, beginning in early January, the only games remaining are INTRA-conference games.)

Therefore, I was in the uncomfortable position of feeling OK with UNC's win over Maryland. Of course, if Pitt and VT had won at home, the ACC would be well ahead.

The shooting was unbelievably good in MD-UNC, and the first five minutes of the second half, in particular, was basketball at the highest level. I expect there to be some cooling off by both teams, especially UNC -- for example, UNC shot better from 3-point range than from the free-throw line: 69 percent to 56 percent.

[Wander]

This is addressed to like half the posters on this thread: it doesn't help Duke if the ACC wins this challenge. How many years do you need to see Kentucky, Gonzaga, San Diego State, Wichita State, Memphis and so on get 1 or 2 seeds before accepting that conference strength mostly doesn't matter? Yes, of course a 13-5 record in a good ACC would be better than a 13-5 record in a bad ACC, but what no one talks about is that if the ACC is bad, we're more likely to get a 15-3 record than a 13-5 one, and those effects roughly cancel out. And yes, it could theoretically matter if the ACC truly became an awful not-top-10 conference, but that has 0% chance of happening.

If you want to root for the ACC out of a sense of conference pride, fine, but the outcome of the challenge won't really have an effect on Duke.

[dukelifer]

This is addressed to like half the posters on this thread: it doesn't help Duke if the ACC wins this challenge. How many years do you need to see Kentucky, Gonzaga, San Diego State, Wichita State, Memphis and so on get 1 or 2 seeds before accepting that conference strength mostly doesn't matter? Yes, of course a 13-5 record in a good ACC would be better than a 13-5 record in a bad ACC, but what no one talks about is that if the ACC is bad, we're more likely to get a 15-3 record than a 13-5 one, and those effects roughly cancel out. And yes, it could theoretically matter if the ACC truly became an awful not-top-10 conference, but that has 0% chance of happening.

If you want to root for the ACC out of a sense of conference pride, fine, but the outcome of the challenge won't really have an effect on Duke.

Well this is not quite right. Duke's seeding is not necessarily affected but the amount of money Duke gets which pays the bills for athletics definitely depends on how many ACC teams make the tourney. So there is a bottom line benefit to Duke.

[Billy Dat]

UNC's defense won this game. It was very good all night, with only a couple of breakdowns.

I meant to co-sign this last night, Wheat. That is some of the best recent D I have ever seen UNC play. I was particularly impressed by one play in the second half when the game was in the balance. I might get the players wrong, but there was a high ball screen where the UNC guard (Paige?) fought through the screen so the big couldn't execute the intended hand-off. UNC didn't switch so the Maryland big was facing a UNC big and he decided to try and dribble. Justin Jackson was guarding the perimeter weak side, recognized that the Maryland big was going to put the ball on the deck and immediately blitzed in from that blind side and caused the big to panic and cough up the ball. The whole sequence was very sophisticated and demonstrated high basketball IQ. The announcers (Bilas and Bonner?) kept talking about how Roy is riding Meeks and Johnson pretty hard, and as I watch the team, I do get the sense that, of the main guys, most are pretty savvy save for those two. Those two are good, but they don't seem to think the game as much where Paige and Jackson, and Berry last night, seem to be heady players. Getting those two to play at maximum intensity and effort, which seems to be the origin of the riding, would make the team very hard to beat. Ok, enough praise for the Heels, my head is starting to hurt.


I was disappointed in Miami's performance at Nebraska, but thankfully they pulled out the win anyway sort of like Wake did Monday. An ugly win is still better than a loss.

Yeah, looks like another Jekyll and Hyde year for Miami. After that impressive run through Utah and Butler they lose at home to Northeastern and then need OT to get by Nebraska.


How many years do you need to see Kentucky, Gonzaga, San Diego State, Wichita State, Memphis

I still think it's harder to get high seeds from lesser conferences. Consider Wichita State who were 28-4 last year and got a 7 seed, they only got a 1 seed when they were undefeated going into the tournament. This year, they lose a few games with Fred Van Vleet out and people are saying they are going to have to get the conference automatic bid to make the NCAAs - and it's only 12/2. If schools like that don't win a few marquee early season non-con games, they have little to no chance during the season to get resume wins. They only tend to get 1 and 2 seeds when they head into selection sunday with 1-2 losses (I don't think Kentucky belongs with the rest on this list, the SEC is a major conference)

[ChillinDuke]

I still think it's harder to get high seeds from lesser conferences. Consider Wichita State who were 28-4 last year and got a 7 seed, they only got a 1 seed when they were undefeated going into the tournament. This year, they lose a few games with Fred Van Vleet out and people are saying they are going to have to get the conference automatic bid to make the NCAAs - and it's only 12/2. If schools like that don't win a few marquee early season non-con games, they have little to no chance during the season to get resume wins. They only tend to get 1 and 2 seeds when they head into selection sunday with 1-2 losses (I don't think Kentucky belongs with the rest on this list, the SEC is a major conference)

Yeah, I agree.

If the ACC truly were elite in hoops (8-10 top 25 teams), and Duke went 14-4 in the conference play and, say, 28-6 entering the Tourney with a 13-5 record against the Top 25 and maybe 6-3 versus the Top 10, I'd say we'd have a really high seed. Possibly even a 1 if we won our Tourney and depending on the landscape of college hoops that year. A lot of hypotheticals I just threw around. But by comparison a 28-6 or 27-6 record last year (with no regard for conference strength) was good for a 12 seed for Wofford, a 6 for SMU, and a 4 for Maryland.

Conference strength may not be the be-all end-all, but it certainly doesn't not matter. There's a spectrum here (like everywhere), and IMO it's almost undeniable that you'd rather have conference strength than not.

- Chillin

ETA: Valparaiso went 28-5 and got a #13 last year as well.

[Troublemaker]

This is addressed to like half the posters on this thread: it doesn't help Duke if the ACC wins this challenge. How many years do you need to see Kentucky, Gonzaga, San Diego State, Wichita State, Memphis and so on get 1 or 2 seeds before accepting that conference strength mostly doesn't matter? Yes, of course a 13-5 record in a good ACC would be better than a 13-5 record in a bad ACC, but what no one talks about is that if the ACC is bad, we're more likely to get a 15-3 record than a 13-5 one, and those effects roughly cancel out. And yes, it could theoretically matter if the ACC truly became an awful not-top-10 conference, but that has 0% chance of happening.

Well, I wasn't thinking about the benefits for Duke's seeding per se. I just thought it'd be fun if the ACC were widely proclaimed by college basketball media as the dominant conference this season. A spanking of the Big 10 in the Challenge would've gone a long way towards charging up that narrative. (It's technically still possible, but now we're going to need a Miracle at Medinah [Blessing at Brookline?] type wipeout on the final day to achieve it.)

(I do realize that from a statistician standpoint, no result from the Challenge should give the ACC separation from the Big 12 as the dominant conference. The Big 12 is going to be right there with [or even ahead of] the ACC all season long. But I don't believe the mainstream college basketball media will take into account conference size. The Big 12 most likely will only have 5 tournament-quality teams, and so the ACC is going to end up with the lion's share of the "best conference" coverage this season.)

[CDu]

Yeah, I agree.

If the ACC truly were elite in hoops (8-10 top 25 teams), and Duke went 14-4 in the conference play and, say, 28-6 entering the Tourney with a 13-5 record against the Top 25 and maybe 6-3 versus the Top 10, I'd say we'd have a really high seed. Possibly even a 1 if we won our Tourney and depending on the landscape of college hoops that year. A lot of hypotheticals I just threw around. But by comparison a 28-6 or 27-6 record last year (with no regard for conference strength) was good for a 12 seed for Wofford, a 6 for SMU, and a 4 for Maryland.

Conference strength may not be the be-all end-all, but it certainly doesn't not matter. There's a spectrum here (like everywhere), and IMO it's almost undeniable that you'd rather have conference strength than not.

- Chillin

ETA: Valparaiso went 28-5 and got a #13 last year as well.

I think you aren't necessarily disagreeing with what Wander said. In the grand scheme of things, it isn't going to matter. We are considered a good enough conference that, even if we lose 4-10 in the Challenge, our seeding (holding all else constant) isn't going to change much compared to if we go 10-4 in the Challenge. So a poor showing in the challenge might reflect a better chance of a better conference (and thus overall) record, which (given the general consideration of the conference as a high-major conference) should be enough. Only if the ACC becomes considered a mid-major would our seeding drop.

If we go 28-4 and the ACC gets killed in the Challenge, we'll be a 1 or 2 seed. If we go 28-4 and the ACC dominates the Challenge, we'll be a 1 or 2 seed. A 28-4 team in the ACC is going to get a VERY high seed. But a 28-4 team in the Southern Conference isn't likely to get a high seed.

You are absolutely correct that being in a mid- or low-major conference DOES matter, but Wander also said that. What he (or she) is saying is that, given that we are considered a power conference, what is more valuable is if our conference foes are mediocre. A better conference means more teams get in, but can make it harder for us to be a top seed. A weaker conference may drop our number of teams in the tourney, but may result in a better W/L record for us and thus a better seed.

So, ultimately, record and conference perception do both matter. But given that conference ratings/perceptions don't generally shift substantially during a season, it's more valuable to have a (relatively) less strong conference year and load up on wins.

Of course, the Challenge is only a potential indicator of conference strength. First, it is early December, and teams change over the course of the season. Additionally, the matchups aren't on an even playing field (not necessarily like vs like, not on a neutral court, etc). And, they are just single data points subject to tons of randomness, so the results don't even necessarily give us an accurate picture of the quality of the teams. For example, UVa played at OSU without Perrantes. They are probably a good bit better than the result indicated. Wake played at Rutgers without Miller-McIntyre. They are probably a good bit better than that result. Who knows in the case of Miami? They appear to just be an inconsistent team so it depends on the given night with them.

[CoSprings]

I read the ACC/Big 10 article on the main page and noticed an editorial slam on Sulaimon, saying he panicked at the end of the game with ill-advised shots. How in the world would the writer know if he was 'Panicking'? Maybe he took those shots with 100% confidence that he was going to make them, much like he did for Duke a few times in late game situations. Like the UNC article after the Duke/UNC football game, this wreaks of sour grapes. Move on. No need to go out of your way to slam the kid. We posters on the board are never allowed to take shots at our own players for making ill-advised plays, so the environment of not taking cheap shots at other players should be level across all of DBR. It's pretty hypocritical to foster an environment on the boards that does not allow criticism of Duke players, but the rest of the site can take shots at players from other teams. This site should be above that if at all possible.

You might still harbor some ill will toward Sulaimon, but I don't. I'm glad he found another place to play. I'm glad Duke's locker room seems healthy, and I wish him the best.

Maybe I'm reading way to much into the quote, but it sure sounded like taking a shot at the kid.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I meant to co-sign this last night, Wheat. That is some of the best recent D I have ever seen UNC play. I was particularly impressed by one play in the second half when the game was in the balance. I might get the players wrong, but there was a high ball screen where the UNC guard (Paige?) fought through the screen so the big couldn't execute the intended hand-off. UNC didn't switch so the Maryland big was facing a UNC big and he decided to try and dribble. Justin Jackson was guarding the perimeter weak side, recognized that the Maryland big was going to put the ball on the deck and immediately blitzed in from that blind side and caused the big to panic and cough up the ball. The whole sequence was very sophisticated and demonstrated high basketball IQ. The announcers (Bilas and Bonner?) kept talking about how Roy is riding Meeks and Johnson pretty hard, and as I watch the team, I do get the sense that, of the main guys, most are pretty savvy save for those two. Those two are good, but they don't seem to think the game as much where Paige and Jackson, and Berry last night, seem to be heady players. Getting those two to play at maximum intensity and effort, which seems to be the origin of the riding, would make the team very hard to beat. Ok, enough praise for the Heels, my head is starting to hurt.



A few more points I haven't had time to make...

Justin Jackson had an interesting game. His long arms disrupted the dribblers all night. He had five steals. He gave MD guards fits when they were able to turn the corner by reaching in from the wing.
What I found so interesting is how he sacrificed his offense for the team last night. He didn't hunt his shot like I expected him too after several really good scoring games, he focused on defense and was content to let the offense come to him, and it never really did. Yet, I never saw him anywhere close to being frustrated. For a projected 1st round pick to be comfortable deferring to the team goals and play as hard as he did last night shows me great character from him and great coaching.

9 players played at least 9 minutes last night, and that kept the key players rested and allowed UNC to maintain their intensity through out the game..
There seems to be great chemistry with these kids along with balanced play.
The MD kids played great, but I thought that there was a key stretch late in the second half where Melo and Rasheed pressed on a couple of shots, and a couple of minutes where they looked winded. That's what happens when you play a deep, intense team and you play 35 minutes plus. MD held up to the pressure way better than I think most teams will if UNC brings it like last night.

Meeks has good defensive instincts, but has still not learned to be as intense every play as he should be. Same with Johnson. It's in their nature to "coast" when they see a break/breather in the play instead of hustling to get ahead of the next pass, or the next play. 2nd half, Johnson went strong and got a big rebound and then relaxed and got stripped when he didn't stay focused. Then right after that, he got a big steal and promptly threw it away. They both struggle to realize their focus and intensity potential. They are not "lazy". But it's a talent that some players just have to keep pressure always on the opposition and stay focused... it's not natural to them, so Roy stays on them all the time and they are getting better.

Did I mention that Paige is a tough little SOB :) He elevates the play every time he steps on the floor. Every team that hopes to win a championship has to have a player like him.

[jv001]

A few more points I haven't had time to make...

Justin Jackson had an interesting game. His long arms disrupted the dribblers all night. He had five steals. He gave MD guards fits when they were able to turn the corner by reaching in from the wing.
What I found so interesting is how he sacrificed his offense for the team last night. He didn't hunt his shot like I expected him too after several really good scoring games, he focused on defense and was content to let the offense come to him, and it never really did. Yet, I never saw him anywhere close to being frustrated. For a projected 1st round pick to be comfortable deferring to the team goals and play as hard as he did last night shows me great character from him and great coaching.

9 players played at least 9 minutes last night, and that kept the key players rested and allowed UNC to maintain their intensity through out the game..
There seems to be great chemistry with these kids along with balanced play.
The MD kids played great, but I thought that there was a key stretch late in the second half where Melo and Rasheed pressed on a couple of shots, and a couple of minutes where they looked winded. That's what happens when you play a deep, intense team and you play 35 minutes plus. MD held up to the pressure way better than I think most teams will if UNC brings it like last night.

Meeks has good defensive instincts, but has still not learned to be as intense every play as he should be. Same with Johnson. It's in their nature to "coast" when they see a break/breather in the play instead of hustling to get ahead of the next pass, or the next play. 2nd half, Johnson went strong and got a big rebound and then relaxed and got stripped when he didn't stay focused. Then right after that, he got a big steal and promptly threw it away. They both struggle to realize their focus and intensity potential. They are not "lazy". But it's a talent that some players just have to keep pressure always on the opposition and stay focused... it's not natural to them, so Roy stays on them all the time and they are getting better.

Did I mention that Paige is a tough little SOB :) He elevates the play every time he steps on the floor. Every team that hopes to win a championship has to have a player like him.

Agree with your points on the game. Duke's little sob is Grayson Allen. He's tough as nails. GoDuke!

[English]

I read the ACC/Big 10 article on the main page and noticed an editorial slam on Sulaimon, saying he panicked at the end of the game with ill-advised shots. How in the world would the writer know if he was 'Panicking'? Maybe he took those shots with 100% confidence that he was going to make them, much like he did for Duke a few times in late game situations. Like the UNC article after the Duke/UNC football game, this wreaks of sour grapes. Move on. No need to go out of your way to slam the kid. We posters on the board are never allowed to take shots at our own players for making ill-advised plays, so the environment of not taking cheap shots at other players should be level across all of DBR. It's pretty hypocritical to foster an environment on the boards that does not allow criticism of Duke players, but the rest of the site can take shots at players from other teams. This site should be above that if at all possible.

You might still harbor some ill will toward Sulaimon, but I don't. I'm glad he found another place to play. I'm glad Duke's locker room seems healthy, and I wish him the best.

Maybe I'm reading way to much into the quote, but it sure sounded like taking a shot at the kid.

I harbor no ill-will for Rasheed and found myself hoping he'd deliver last night--which, in large measure, he did. However, my recollection of Sheed's time with the good guys includes more than a few times that Rasheed decided in big games, often trailing slightly down the stretch, that he wanted the ball and was taking it himself regardless of game flow or opposition's defense. Whether you want to call that panicking or blindly forcing offense, I leave that to you. That's what I saw last night from him at the game's conclusion, including the last UMD offensive play when he turned it over driving into a double-team. The game was not likely to swing had he not done that, but it was the second or third instance of Rasheed taking a shot or drive off of zero passes in the final minutes while trailing.

That said, it was a supremely fun game to watch, even as I sat decidedly on the fence about who I wanted to win. The first five minutes out of intermission were top notch. UMD has no depth beyond their starting five, and unless they figure out how to use Layman--I get the sense he's having the same problems that Ingram is having (barring youth), which is that his obvious mismatch advantage is diluted playing him at the 3 instead of the 4--they may struggle a bit against top teams.

UNC is nearly exactly what I anticipated coming into the season. A fine inside-out team who will push tempo and hurt you with frontcourt depth. What I certainly did NOT anticipate was UNC converting so many shots from the perimeter. Berry's improvement is stark, and if Johnson ever decides he wants to be a consistent threat, they could be better than the ~8-10 loss team I expected.

[ChillinDuke]

I think you aren't necessarily disagreeing with what Wander said. In the grand scheme of things, it isn't going to matter. We are considered a good enough conference that, even if we lose 4-10 in the Challenge, our seeding (holding all else constant) isn't going to change much compared to if we go 10-4 in the Challenge. So a poor showing in the challenge might reflect a better chance of a better conference (and thus overall) record, which (given the general consideration of the conference as a high-major conference) should be enough. Only if the ACC becomes considered a mid-major would our seeding drop.

If we go 28-4 and the ACC gets killed in the Challenge, we'll be a 1 or 2 seed. If we go 28-4 and the ACC dominates the Challenge, we'll be a 1 or 2 seed. A 28-4 team in the ACC is going to get a VERY high seed. But a 28-4 team in the Southern Conference isn't likely to get a high seed.

You are absolutely correct that being in a mid- or low-major conference DOES matter, but Wander also said that. What he (or she) is saying is that, given that we are considered a power conference, what is more valuable is if our conference foes are mediocre. A better conference means more teams get in, but can make it harder for us to be a top seed. A weaker conference may drop our number of teams in the tourney, but may result in a better W/L record for us and thus a better seed.

So, ultimately, record and conference perception do both matter. But given that conference ratings/perceptions don't generally shift substantially during a season, it's more valuable to have a (relatively) less strong conference year and load up on wins.

Of course, the Challenge is only a potential indicator of conference strength. First, it is early December, and teams change over the course of the season. Additionally, the matchups aren't on an even playing field (not necessarily like vs like, not on a neutral court, etc). And, they are just single data points subject to tons of randomness, so the results don't even necessarily give us an accurate picture of the quality of the teams. For example, UVa played at OSU without Perrantes. They are probably a good bit better than the result indicated. Wake played at Rutgers without Miller-McIntyre. They are probably a good bit better than that result. Who knows in the case of Miami? They appear to just be an inconsistent team so it depends on the given night with them.

Yes, you're right. I'm largely in agreement with the logic.

But the tone of the OP was more along the lines of "Who the heck cares if we have a good conference? Doesn't matter one iota." which I'm not really in agreement with. I think it matters more than not at all and less than be-all, end-all. More specifically, I'm not convinced that the effects of a stronger conference leading to more losses roughly cancel out. I think a stronger conference is more important than increased losses. But admittedly, the math is pretty hard to parse out.

- Chillin

[English]

Yes, you're right. I'm largely in agreement with the logic.

But the tone of the OP was more along the lines of "Who the heck cares if we have a good conference? Doesn't matter one iota." which I'm not really in agreement with. I think it matters more than not at all and less than be-all, end-all. More specifically, I'm not convinced that the effects of a stronger conference leading to more losses roughly cancel out. I think a stronger conference is more important than increased losses. But admittedly, the math is pretty hard to parse out.

- Chillin

The seemingly arbitrary media narratives for conference strength always make me chuckle--well, they bother me, but I'm embarrassed to admit that, so I'll say they make me chuckle. It seems for the SEC football and Big XII basketball, when the teams beat themselves up in INTRA-conference play, it's because "ZOMG, look at how many good teams they have, there's no night off, it's a murderer's row of talent and top-notch parity." However, when it's anyone else, the narrative becomes "welp, there's an amoeba-like blob of mediocrity without any good or great teams. Nothing to see here."

I'm not firmly in one camp or another when it comes to conference strength WRT NCAAT seeding, but I certainly enjoy a strong ACC top-to-bottom when I consistently watch a lot of college basketball games throughout the season. So, in that regard, selfishly I prefer that our conference be stronger even at the potential expense of going 13-3 or 14-2 in conference play.

[Billy Dat]

I harbor no ill-will for Rasheed and found myself hoping he'd deliver last night--which, in large measure, he did. However, my recollection of Sheed's time with the good guys includes more than a few times that Rasheed decided in big games, often trailing slightly down the stretch, that he wanted the ball and was taking it himself regardless of game flow or opposition's defense. Whether you want to call that panicking or blindly forcing offense, I leave that to you. That's what I saw last night from him at the game's conclusion, including the last UMD offensive play when he turned it over driving into a double-team. The game was not likely to swing had he not done that, but it was the second or third instance of Rasheed taking a shot or drive off of zero passes in the final minutes while trailing.

Oh yeah, he was always the king of hero ball. That habit will be very hard to shake. I always loved his fight and the fact that he was never scared. But, his tendency to try and always take over was more then a bit maddening.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Oh yeah, he was always the king of hero ball. That habit will be very hard to shake. I always loved his fight and the fact that he was never scared. But, his tendency to try and always take over was more then a bit maddening.

I'd argue that Quinn Cook the Junior was the king of hero ball. And it was sooooooo frustrating to watch. Rasheed was a close second, but Cook's speciality was the ill-advised 3pt shot that never went in. Quinn Cook the Senior, on the other hand, didn't play much hero ball.

Man, I'm gonna miss Quinn Cook...

[Troublemaker]

Dakich is a schemer. He spent 10 minutes kissing up to Pitino about his player development and coaching to set up sticking in the knife just now by arguing that Pitino should've been fired over the prostitute scandal.

Louisville up 21-9 early and looking long, athletic, and better on offense than they were last season. They really benefitted from the grad transfers of Trey Lewis and Damion Lee.

[Troublemaker]

Geez, if Cuse can't beat Wiscy in OT here, the Big 10 is going to sweep the first three games tonight.

[Troublemaker]

Horrible performance from the conference from the beginning of the Challenge til now. Hopefully the 3 remaining games go well. At the very least, let the Duke game go well!

[CDu]

Geez, if Cuse can't beat Wiscy in OT here, the Big 10 is going to sweep the first three games tonight.

Yup, gonna be tough to get the draw. Gotta sweep the late games. Disappointing loss for Syracuse, after a pretty strong effort from Louisville.

[CoachJ10]

It really is embarrassing to be on this losing streak in the Challenge. The coaching in the middle and bottom of the conference is really hurting us. Leonard Hamilton just doesn't know how to coach winning basketball.

[ChillinDuke]

Frustrating Challenge for sure. Not sure exactly what to make of it other than our top 3 or 4 came out with wins, 3 of them solid.

The Syracuse loss to Wisco is pretty surprising / irritating from a conference perspective.

- Chillin

[CDu]

Another loss in the Challenge. This is getting old. :(

Teams who met or exceeded expectations: Duke, UNC, Louisville, UVa (without Perrantes), Va Tech

Teams who disappointed in a win: Wake, Miami

Teams who disappointed in a loss: Syracuse, State

Teams that were meh, win or lose: Notre Dame, Clemson, BC, FSU, Pitt

[Olympic Fan]

Another loss in the Challenge. This is getting old. :(

Teams who met or exceeded expectations: Duke, UNC, Louisville, UVa (without Perrantes), Va Tech

Teams who disappointed in a win: Wake, Miami

Teams who disappointed in a loss: Syracuse, State

Teams that were meh, win or lose: Notre Dame, Clemson, BC, FSU, Pitt

I mostly agree.

The team I blame most for the loss was Syracuse -- blowing the game against a so-so Wisconsin team at home. Next up was FSU, which has worlds of talent, but couldn't execute down the stretch against Iowa. I'd also agree that the NC State loss was a disappointment, especially since Michigan had to go much of the way without Walton. Looking at that game, I'm surprised that State didn't lose because of its shaky perimeter play (the big problem most of the year) but because its post guys -- who I think are pretty good -- were terrible.

On the other hand, our three top teams -- the three teams that are projected as potential Final Four contenders -- all won ... and were all fairly impressive (if you give Virginia a break for playing without Perrantes). That's kind of what happened a year ago. The ACC lost the Challenge, but our top teams -- Duke winning at Wisconsin; Virginia beating Maryland, Notre Dame beating Michigan State, Louisville beating Ohio State -- were all impressive (okay, UNC lost at home to Iowa).

I should also mention that last season, despite losing the Challenge, the ACC ended up with a sizeable overall superiority over the Big Ten. I should mention that despite the 8-6 loss in the Challenge, the ACC is currently 10-9 in the season series against the Big 10.

[JasonEvans]

the ACC is currently 10-9 in the season series against the Big 10.

The most impressive stat I saw last night was that Duke was 15-2 in the challenge. Think about that for a moment.

The is an 88.2% winning percentage against Big conference opponents... wait, even better than that it is an 88.2% winning percentage against top tier Big conference opponents because we are always matched up with one of the Big Ten's top 2 or 3 teams.

Folks, that is stunning. It is crazy! I can't remember the last time our Challenge opponent wasn't a preseason top 20 team. And we are 15-2 against them... with most of the games being played on the road or on neutral courts.

Here are the best records of teams in the Challenge, all the teams who are above .500... notice how few Big Ten teams get there.

Duke 15-2, .882
Wake 11-4, .733
BC 6-3, .667
Notre Dame 2-1, .667
Virginia 10-6, .625
Purdue 9-6, .600
Nebraska 3-2, .600
Maryland 10-7, .588 (10-5 in the ACC, 0-2 in the Big Ten)
Clemson 9-7, .562
UNC/Purdue 9-8, .529

-Jason "Wake's record is impressive... though they are almost always playing one of the Big Ten's bottom tier teams" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

BTW, good win for Wake at home over Arkansas Friday night ... and Pitt took care of Duquesne in the inter-city rivalry.

N.C. State struggled a bit midway through today's game with Bucknell -- they blew all of a 12-point second half lead and trailed briefly -- but finished strong an won 99-87.

Syracuse is struggling late in the first half against Georgetown (down 12).

[CDu]

BTW, good win for Wake at home over Arkansas Friday night ... and Pitt took care of Duquesne in the inter-city rivalry.

N.C. State struggled a bit midway through today's game with Bucknell -- they blew all of a 12-point second half lead and trailed briefly -- but finished strong an won 99-87.

Syracuse is struggling late in the first half against Georgetown (down 12).

Arkansas is now 3-4 on the season with no quality wins. It wasn't a bad win by Wake, but I wouldn't say it was a good win. It does show that the lower part of the ACC is better than the lower part of the SEC though.

Tough day for the ACC's bottom feeder as BC lost at home to UM-Lowell. FSU had a decent bounceback win over VCU.

[OldPhiKap]

Arkansas is now 3-4 on the season with no quality wins. It wasn't a bad win by Wake, but I wouldn't say it was a good win. It does show that the lower part of the ACC is better than the lower part of the SEC though.

Tough day for the ACC's bottom feeder as BC lost at home to UM-Lowell. FSU had a decent bounceback win over VCU.

Does UM-Lowell run the weave?



(Sorry, industrial revolution pun).

[wilson]

Does UM-Lowell run the weave?



(Sorry, industrial revolution pun).I really will not cotton to having yet another thread hijacked by bad puns.

[Indoor66]

Does UM-Lowell run the weave?



(Sorry, industrial revolution pun).

Actually they are so quick they wear out the shoe leather.

[53n206]

"Lowell--weave--cotton" are among of the reasons I love DBR.

[devildeac]

Does UM-Lowell run the weave?



(Sorry, industrial revolution pun).


I really will not cotton to having yet another thread hijacked by bad puns.

Youze guys need to come up with new material or you'll be banished to the bad beer or bad clothing thread...