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View Full Version : FB: UVA 42, Duke 34



devildeac
11-16-2015, 06:21 PM
This am, Vegas had it even. Can we get the train back on the tracks?

Bob Green
11-16-2015, 06:34 PM
Virginia is 14 of 14 in Scoring Defense (32 ppg) and 11 of 14 in Rushing Defense (171 ypg). Hopefully our offensive strategy will include establishing the run game. Powell and Duncan need to see lots of touches. The same goes for Wilson if he is healthy enough to play. The coaching staff may refuse to do it, but I will not stop saying it: run the damn ball!

OldPhiKap
11-16-2015, 07:07 PM
Need this one. Jam it down their throats.

left_hook_lacey
11-17-2015, 11:20 AM
Virginia is 14 of 14 in Scoring Defense (32 ppg) and 11 of 14 in Rushing Defense (171 ypg). Hopefully our offensive strategy will include establishing the run game. Powell and Duncan need to see lots of touches. The same goes for Wilson if he is healthy enough to play. The coaching staff may refuse to do it, but I will not stop saying it: run the damn ball!

For the life of me I can't understand why we don't run it down the opponents throat. Duncan and Powell have proved more than capable, but never get the workload they should in the situations they should. Mix in a few option reads with the QB and run it until the defense begs for mercy. Then, and only then, throw it downfield.

Duncan and Powell have been fun to watch when they get a chance, but they just don't get enough touches.

Avvocato
11-17-2015, 06:36 PM
The coaching staff may refuse to do it, but I will not stop saying it: run the damn ball!

I'd like to supplement a bit with: run the damn ball wide as well. We don't only have to run right up the gut.

I do have to say I would be curious to see Boehme play another game. I actually thought he did well for the most part last week. He seems to me to have a better feel for the game than Sirk, in my opinion (though based on a very small sample size). Sirk has all of the tools. He reminds me of a pitcher with 95+ fastball, a good curve and change, etc., but not always good at locating his pitches or having a good feel for pitching (maybe not knowing when to change speeds, pitches, etc.). I feel like the coaching staff has been trying to build his confidence and decision making all season. While we have seen some progress, I'm just not sure he has a great feel for the game. I have no idea how good Boehme can be, but I thought he did some nice things. I'm curious to see him with some more snaps. I have no doubt that Cut doesn't want a QB controversy to emerge (as it would probably destroy Sirk's confidence if Boehme plays really well), but we should start to learn who would be best for the program next season.

One thing I have to say about Sirk is that he is a load as a QB running the ball. When quarterbacks are good runners, they are usually the quick, shifty runners that if they find space can take it the distance, make a guy miss in the open field, etc. Sirk is like a fullback. When he runs, he puts a load on you. He gets the 4-8 yard runs and punishes as a runner. It's pretty amazing to watch. I'm rooting for Sirk to be the guy. It's just not clear that he is.

In any case, this is a tricky game for Duke. Despite its record, Virginia has played tough in many games this year and we need to play well to beat them. I think we all expect to beat Wake Forest, so this is an important game to regain some momentum and hopefully move to finish the year at 8-4 heading into a bowl game.

Bob Green
11-19-2015, 03:40 PM
With Sirk listed as Probable on this week's injury report I expect he will be back in the starting line-up against Virginia. I equally expect Parker Boehme to see action based on his good performance, especially in the 1st half, against Pitt. My question is: how will Boehme be used? I'm not a fan of sticking Boehme in for a play or two inside the 10 yard line. Sirk is the better option in that situation. If Coach Cutcliffe opts to play both quarterbacks this week, I hope he gives them both their own series to run the offense and foregoes the situational substituting.

Thoughts?

Gewebe14
11-19-2015, 04:30 PM
With Sirk listed as Probable on this week's injury report I expect he will be back in the starting line-up against Virginia. I equally expect Parker Boehme to see action based on his good performance, especially in the 1st half, against Pitt. My question is: how will Boehme be used? I'm not a fan of sticking Boehme in for a play or two inside the 10 yard line. Sirk is the better option in that situation. If Coach Cutcliffe opts to play both quarterbacks this week, I hope he gives them both their own series to run the offense and foregoes the situational substituting.

Thoughts?

I agree that Sirk will likely start, but totally agree with your assessment on Sirk. We've failed this year sticking Boehme in goal-line situations (where Sirk excelled last year!) and Boehme looked more accurate in a small sample size of one game last week than Sirk has most of the year. I'd prefer to try Boehme as the full-time and Sirk more situationally. Also if our receivers could start catching balls that hit their hands wouldn't hurt.

Bob Green
11-19-2015, 04:31 PM
5723

Devilwin
11-19-2015, 06:33 PM
Run the ball, as has been said. Get the defense up to snuff, we should win.

Avvocato
11-19-2015, 10:36 PM
With Sirk listed as Probable on this week's injury report I expect he will be back in the starting line-up against Virginia. I equally expect Parker Boehme to see action based on his good performance, especially in the 1st half, against Pitt. My question is: how will Boehme be used? I'm not a fan of sticking Boehme in for a play or two inside the 10 yard line. Sirk is the better option in that situation. If Coach Cutcliffe opts to play both quarterbacks this week, I hope he gives them both their own series to run the offense and foregoes the situational substituting.

Thoughts?

I agree that if Sirk is healthy, he will start. I also agree that Boehme should be given a series here and there. However, I don't think Cut will do it. He's been trying to build Sirk's confidence all season. If he starts letting Boehme get series (especially if he plays well), he could hurt Sirk's confidence and create a QB controversy. With that said, I think the program is better off letting Boehme play more to see what we have. I think if Boehme gets to play some series, it will give us some insight into what the staff thinks of Sirk. I think it's important to finish the season strong but also keep an eye for next year.

devildeac
11-19-2015, 10:43 PM
With Sirk listed as Probable on this week's injury report I expect he will be back in the starting line-up against Virginia. I equally expect Parker Boehme to see action based on his good performance, especially in the 1st half, against Pitt. My question is: how will Boehme be used? I'm not a fan of sticking Boehme in for a play or two inside the 10 yard line. Sirk is the better option in that situation. If Coach Cutcliffe opts to play both quarterbacks this week, I hope he gives them both their own series to run the offense and foregoes the situational substituting.

Thoughts?

I think Sirk gets the start and plays most of the snaps (can we have a "snaps" thread like we have a minutes thread in MBB?:rolleyes:) but Boehme plays a series each half, or more if Sirk is ineffective. I'll certainly agree with your main point: run the damn ball!!

6th Man
11-20-2015, 01:06 AM
With Sirk listed as Probable on this week's injury report I expect he will be back in the starting line-up against Virginia. I equally expect Parker Boehme to see action based on his good performance, especially in the 1st half, against Pitt. My question is: how will Boehme be used? I'm not a fan of sticking Boehme in for a play or two inside the 10 yard line. Sirk is the better option in that situation. If Coach Cutcliffe opts to play both quarterbacks this week, I hope he gives them both their own series to run the offense and foregoes the situational substituting.

Thoughts?

I completely agree with your post. I've honestly been more frustrated with Duke's situational subbing than anything else. In our most critical plays we bring in someone cold off the bench to pick up the short yardage. Time and time again this season it has been ineffective and fools no one. We do all this despite having two power backs who run with a lot of heart in Duncan and Powell. It has been enough lately to make me want to stop watching out of sheer frustration. It's the most curious coaching decision I see every weekend.

Bob Green
11-21-2015, 07:04 AM
The Green Family will be headed to Charlottesville today to root our Blue Devils to victory. The Richmond Times-Dispatch contains an article this morning talking about Duke's distractions:

http://www.richmond.com/sports/college/football/article_ddba10ca-8358-53b6-b6d1-b8c68c89912e.html


The Cavaliers and embattled coach Mike London play host today to a Duke team that will try to haul itself out of a three-game losing streak while simultaneously digesting the early-in-the-week dismissal of three players, one of them a productive wideout. Moreover, the Blue Devils are uncertain — or so they say — about the status of starting quarterback Thomas Sirk.

The article contains strong comments from Coach Cutcliffe.

There is a second article outlining three keys for Virginia - standard stuff:

http://www.richmond.com/sports/college/football/article_87e34486-8074-5334-9c0c-aaa56620077e.html

OldPhiKap
11-21-2015, 08:14 AM
Time to right the ship. Go get 'em!

esporque
11-21-2015, 08:24 AM
Fair amount of negativity on the UVA alumni, expect they may be indeed looking at a coaching change around the corner.

We're tossing the kids in the car making the drive the down to root for the team. Great weather for football, hope the team's fired up to get going again.

sagegrouse
11-21-2015, 09:43 AM
Duke has had obvious problems scoring TD's from inside the five-yard line.

The Pittsburgh Steelers, responding to the new NFL rules, have begun to emphasize the two-point conversion. They have gone for two points after a TD seven times and been successful on five, for ten points and a 71 percent conversion rate, versus a maximum of seven points if the kicks had been successful. Commentators at the game said Coach Mike Tomlin has noted, that in practicing for the two-point conversion, the Steelers' goal line offense has gotten more efficient. I don't have any stats, but that would mean scoring more TD's from inside the five-yard line.

Just a thought.

budwom
11-21-2015, 09:43 AM
Run the ball, as has been said. Get the defense up to snuff, we should win.

Having seen all our games thus far, I just can't understand some of our playcalling (much discussed on various boards).. .we seem to run very well, then
inexplicably completely waste a down throwing the long ball when the receiver isn't open (our percentage on these longs throws this year has been absolutely abysmal).

I've got no problem throwing the ball downfield, but the number of downs we've wasted on ultra low percentage long throws has stopped more drives than I
can count this year.

Before the season began, Cut raved about Sirk's ability to throw long. Regrettably, this has failed to bear fruit thus far.

Having said all this, I'm still highly optimistic about the program, but we sure could use a couple wins to close out the season.

Olympic Fan
11-21-2015, 11:01 AM
The one thing I will say going into this game is that so far this season Duke has not beaten a good team (FCS NCCU is the only victim with a winning record) ... BUT we have not lost to a bad team (we are 5-0 against teams that currently have a losing record).

So here's hoping that trend continues Saturday against 3-7 Virginia!

duke blue brewcrew
11-21-2015, 11:14 AM
The one thing I will say going into this game is that so far this season Duke has not beaten a good team (FCS NCCU is the only victim with a winning record) ... BUT we have not lost to a bad team (we are 5-0 against teams that currently have a losing record).

So here's hoping that trend continues Saturday against 3-7 Virginia!

Duke has to right the ship today against UVA. It's been an ugly three weeks in the results column.

budwom
11-21-2015, 02:30 PM
The one thing I will say going into this game is that so far this season Duke has not beaten a good team (FCS NCCU is the only victim with a winning record) ... BUT we have not lost to a bad team (we are 5-0 against teams that currently have a losing record).

So here's hoping that trend continues Saturday against 3-7 Virginia!

Well, I hope you're right, but consider this: what do you think Duke's record would be if we had played Boise State, Notre Dame and UCLA (as UVA did) in place of NCCU, Tulane and Army?
I'd hazard to say we wouldn't be much, if any, better.

Just to be clear, I think our scheduling makes perfect sense....and I think UVA's makes no sense (and I suspect Mike London would agree with that).

johnb
11-21-2015, 02:55 PM
Having seen all our games thus far, I just can't understand some of our playcalling (much discussed on various boards).. .we seem to run very well, then
inexplicably completely waste a down throwing the long ball when the receiver isn't open (our percentage on these longs throws this year has been absolutely abysmal).

I've got no problem throwing the ball downfield, but the number of downs we've wasted on ultra low percentage long throws has stopped more drives than I
can count this year.
.

I agree. I recall one such play a few weeks ago. It was 3rd and 1 around our 40, and we asked Sirk to throw a 30 yard fade to the sideline, over the receiver's shoulder, against what seemed to be a predictable double team. It seemed to stand no chance of success, and it condemned the drive.

The next day, I was watching the Broncos, and Peyton threw a similar ball under similar circumstances. 1st down, Broncos.

Not sure why we don't throw more slants or mix up the running game more, since these strategies would seem likely to work than the flare passes to the sideline, but I'm guessing Cut and his staff (who were, of course, geniuses a few weeks ago) know the players and the game of football better than do I.

Oh, and pet peeve #23C: let's just mark the Miami game down as a loss. No asterisk. Them's the rules, flawed though they are. I wonder if our inability to let it go contributed to the Carolina debacle.

devildeac
11-21-2015, 03:00 PM
From a reliable source in Hooville, Sirk is warming up but no Wilson sighting yet.

-jk
11-21-2015, 03:02 PM
DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

ChrisP
11-21-2015, 04:17 PM
Wow, wheels just coming off today. What has happened to our team???

Way to go, Devon though!

riverside6
11-21-2015, 04:18 PM
Better late than never ... Live stats for Duke/Virginia

http://www.scacchoops.com/duke-at-virginia-football-live-stats-11212015

buddy
11-21-2015, 05:02 PM
This team looks like it has packed it in. So much for seeing Boehme. I think we really need UVA to beat Virginia Tech next week. If there is one more team than available bowls, we're staying home.

jv001
11-21-2015, 05:10 PM
This team looks like it has packed it in. So much for seeing Boehme. I think we really need UVA to beat Virginia Tech next week. If there is one more team than available bowls, we're staying home.

And if we lose to Wake next week, we might just deserve that fate. GoDuke!

Olympic Fan
11-21-2015, 05:24 PM
This team looks like it has packed it in. So much for seeing Boehme. I think we really need UVA to beat Virginia Tech next week. If there is one more team than available bowls, we're staying home.

There's not ... the ACC has nine firm bowl spots (and two conditionals). The league has eight bowl eligible teams ... and VPI can get eligible with a win at Virginia next week.

Either way -- deserve it or not (and if we lose next week, I'd say not) -- we will be going to a bowl.

6th Man
11-21-2015, 06:16 PM
Really surprised to see the team give up like this. This is a really bad way to end the season for the program going forward.

bleedingblue88
11-21-2015, 06:22 PM
Really surprised to see the team give up like this. This is a really bad way to end the season for the program going forward.

Agreed. Cutcliffe has completely lost the team after the Miami debacle. Today's loss is pretty inexcusable.

juise
11-21-2015, 07:06 PM
How did Duncan not get out of bounds on that second down? What a killer.

arnie
11-21-2015, 07:07 PM
Agreed. Cutcliffe has completely lost the team after the Miami debacle. Today's loss is pretty inexcusable.

Just turned on game to see what might have been. Duncan inexplicably falling down inbounds to prevent several opportunities to tie game at end.

brickey
11-21-2015, 07:12 PM
Really surprised to see the team give up like this. This is a really bad way to end the season for the program going forward.

Not the end of the season, actually, and it appears others have given up far earlier than the team did.

killerleft
11-21-2015, 07:27 PM
Duncan not getting out of bounds was a real head scratcher. But Duke's timeout call when we had 4th and 15 yards to go on the previous drive was both stupid and costly. We could have punted. We'd have had two timeouts left to use, held UVA, and got the ball back with much more time to tie the game.

Great comeback by our guys after playing so badly for so long. There is (or should be) no controversy, in my mind, concerning which quarterback gives us the better chance to win. But one of Cut's top qualities, loyalty, can also bite us in the butt sometimes.

eddiehaskell
11-21-2015, 07:47 PM
Wow - we are officially bad this season. Talk about going off the rails. Hopefully this isn't something that severely impacts next season. 6 L's in a row would be a tough pill to swallow.

brickey
11-21-2015, 07:49 PM
Duncan not getting out of bounds was a real head scratcher. But Duke's timeout call when we had 4th and 15 yards to go on the previous drive was both stupid and costly. We could have punted. We'd have had two timeouts left to use, held UVA, and got the ball back with much more time to tie the game.

Great comeback by our guys after playing so badly for so long. There is (or should be) no controversy, in my mind, concerning which quarterback gives us the better chance to win. But one of Cut's top qualities, loyalty, can also bite us in the butt sometimes.

I agree with all above, Killerleft, except the statement about Duncan, beacause I think he did get out of bounds. Am I such a homer that I still believe he reached the ball out of bounds before his knee went down? It was an odd scenario: we had no choice but to spike the next snap, and at that point, I don't think the play was reviewable. Has anyone with DVR had a chance to review the not-out-of-bounds call?

Overall, sad to see the sudden decline in support by the Duke faithful, both in-game and in-season. (Killerleft and all fans at the game excepted.) Not sure what else to say about that. Just sad.

oldnavy
11-21-2015, 08:04 PM
Well when you are gifted a turn over with about two minutes left in the half and your offensive coordinator calls three straight plays that burns exactly 12 seconds off the clock before punting back to UVA who them marches down the field to score.... Well if Scotty Montgomery is still the offensive coordinator after this year I will be disappointed in coach Cut. Amazingly inept play calling. High school coaches down east here have better clock management and imagination than Duke's OC.

OldPhiKap
11-21-2015, 08:14 PM
Another difficult loss. Need to pull it together to beat Wake, then take a deep breath and evaluate.

Wander
11-21-2015, 09:57 PM
Our season has completely fallen apart since the Miami nonsense. Some posters predicted that would happen immediately after the Miami game. I thought that was nonsense at the time, but props to them for calling it. One bright spot was TJ Rahming, which was nice to see given our WR issues. He made stupid mistakes in addition to his ~200 yards, but nice to see potential there. More relevant for future seasons than this one, but still good.

Remember that we're down our best player for the first half of the Wake Forest game, so that is far from a given win.

Bob Green
11-21-2015, 10:40 PM
Green family has arrived home from Charlottesville safe and sound but frustrated. We killed a couple of drives early with penalties and allowed UVa to build a big lead. The comeback was exciting but ultimately we came up short. The defense has to figure out a way to get some pressure on the opponent's quarterback.

DU82
11-21-2015, 11:55 PM
Green family has arrived home from Charlottesville safe and sound but frustrated. We killed a couple of drives early with penalties and allowed UVa to build a big lead. The comeback was exciting but ultimately we came up short. The defense has to figure out a way to get some pressure on the opponent's quarterback.

Bob, you made it home an hour or so before I did.

Frustrating to see the team come on late, with so many mistakes in the first three quarters. Our defense played so soft on passes, trying to keep things in front of them, then UVa took advantage of the one-on-one coverage on deeper patterns. Parker obviously drove us down (almost) three times late, he seems to have a softer touch on balls that gives players better chances to catch it than Sirk right now. (Who starts next week? I know who I'd pick.) In the stands, I agreed with the timeout on 4th and 15, figuring it was a better chance than a 3 and out and a long drive with no timeouts and little time.

Regarding Cash, if I was Cut I'd not even bring him to Wake. The targeting was stupid, but the way he left the field after being disqualified was disgraceful. You just made a stupid play, and you taunt/wave your arms at the Woo fans as you leave? Classless.

eddiehaskell
11-22-2015, 01:32 AM
19-10 grinder again top 20 Northwestern.
beat GT 34-20 -- a team that beat FSU and only lost to UNC by 7
beat VT -- a team that took UNC to OT and hung with OSU for 3 quarters
beat BC who just gave ND a good game (and FSU/Wake/Louisville)

...then "The Play"...

If nothing else, this season could be interesting from a sports psychology standpoint. It seems that we could replay all games prior to "The Play" and finish the season with ZERO conference wins. I think BC, VT and GT all kick our butt right now.

Devilwin
11-22-2015, 06:43 AM
I agree on the Cash take, DU82. He should sit. That's not Duke attitude. I thought better of him. Parker should start too. Sirk is way too erratic as a passer. And, finally, the defense needs to figure out how to cover Wake's receivers. This "lobbing it downfield for a catch" nonsense has to stop.:mad:

kfan
11-22-2015, 07:16 AM
I don't think Cash was taunting Woo fans. He was trying to fire up the Duke fans. "Classless" is the last word I would use to describe Cash.

TruBlu
11-22-2015, 07:44 AM
I don't think Cash was taunting Woo fans. He was trying to fire up the Duke fans. "Classless" is the last word I would use to describe Cash.

That was my question as well. From watching on TV, it wasn't clear to whom he was gesturing. If he was trying to fire up Duke fans, it was just in poor taste, considering the targeting. If he was taunting UVA fans, it was classless.

Would someone who was at the game clarify?

Bob Green
11-22-2015, 07:49 AM
We have completely abandoned trying to run the ball with our running backs. Yesterday, there were 53 pass plays to 31 run plays. Of the 31 run plays, only 10 were with a running back. A running back ran the ball on 10 of 84 offensive plays or 12 percent of the time. I label that strategy ridiculous and ineffective!

Let's revisit the 34-20 win over Georgia Tech:

25 pass plays
36 run plays
21 run plays with a running back (34 percent)

To be successful, this team absolutely must run the ball more effectively and Step 1 is play calling.

jv001
11-22-2015, 07:51 AM
We have completely abandoned trying to run the ball with our running backs. Yesterday, there were 53 pass plays to 31 run plays. Of the 31 run plays, only 10 were with a running back. A running back ran the ball on 10 of 84 offensive plays or 12 percent of the time. I label that strategy ridiculous and ineffective!

Let's revisit the 34-20 win over Georgia Tech:

25 pass plays
36 run plays
21 run plays with a running back (34 percent)

To be successful, this team absolutely must run the ball more effectively and Step 1 is play calling.

I never thought I would say this, Scottie must either change the play calling or he should be replaced. GoDuke!

kfan
11-22-2015, 09:05 AM
That was my question as well. From watching on TV, it wasn't clear to whom he was gesturing. If he was trying to fire up Duke fans, it was just in poor taste, considering the targeting. If he was taunting UVA fans, it was classless.

Would someone who was at the game clarify?

I was there. He was gesturing to Duke fans.

DU82
11-22-2015, 09:32 AM
That was my question as well. From watching on TV, it wasn't clear to whom he was gesturing. If he was trying to fire up Duke fans, it was just in poor taste, considering the targeting. If he was taunting UVA fans, it was classless.

Would someone who was at the game clarify?

I was at the game and that was my take. The Woo fans booed as he was leaving the field, and he started waving his arms. Frankly, there weren't enough Duke fans left, and other than a few parents in the corner downstairs, the official visitors sections were up in the upper deck. Pretty clear to those of us upstairs he was responding to the Virginia fans booing.

ETA: I will say that he was almost out of the stadium, and was by the small group of Duke parents in the downstairs corner. But still looked to us that he was responding to the boos. If he was firing up the Duke fans, he would have looked their way instead of towards the exit.

Papa John
11-22-2015, 10:08 AM
Our season has completely fallen apart since the Miami nonsense. Some posters predicted that would happen immediately after the Miami game. I thought that was nonsense at the time, but props to them for calling it. One bright spot was TJ Rahming, which was nice to see given our WR issues. He made stupid mistakes in addition to his ~200 yards, but nice to see potential there. More relevant for future seasons than this one, but still good.

Remember that we're down our best player for the first half of the Wake Forest game, so that is far from a given win.

Cutcliffe is trying to build a championship program... Championship teams do not melt down after heartbreaking losses. But there's a lot of youth on this team, and they are still learning to be a championship program—it takes a lot of learning to get there... Focus now needs to be on getting a W against Wake to turn things around, then benefit from the extra practice time leading up to the bowl game, then win the bowl to build momentum heading into next season... Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette...

uh_no
11-22-2015, 11:16 AM
We have completely abandoned trying to run the ball with our running backs. Yesterday, there were 53 pass plays to 31 run plays. Of the 31 run plays, only 10 were with a running back. A running back ran the ball on 10 of 84 offensive plays or 12 percent of the time. I label that strategy ridiculous and ineffective!

Let's revisit the 34-20 win over Georgia Tech:

25 pass plays
36 run plays
21 run plays with a running back (34 percent)

To be successful, this team absolutely must run the ball more effectively and Step 1 is play calling.


Duke is pleased to announce the addition of Steve Spurrier as an offensive consultant

I can dream can't I?

It's almost mind boggling how we dropped from one of the more potent offenses in the country to one of the least between boone's JR and SR year. Is it personnel? Plays? IDK.....but I know this...I'm calling right now for us to bring back Coach G to be offensive coordinator!!!!!!!!

Oh wait...wrong "back in my day"

Sorry...I'm at home with the fam and in a happy mood. It's basketball season!

But in either case, I'm equally dissatisfied with the play calling the last couple of years....there are times where we run the ball 15 times in a row with no success (one game last year....) and games where we pass all the time....terrible calls on the goal line.....

It's not a case of "do no right," but that whatever the play calling is, its predictable, unimaginative, and largely ineffective. Since the Texas A&M team, we haven't put our best players in positions to be effective....just look at Boone's regression between the two years.....we complained about accuracy and what not....but the team managed to put points up despite that the year before....

This year, look at our running back stable...proven guys...jela was a huge piece two years ago, and we know what shaun can do...and yet, incredibly ineffective....
We've been unable to get deaver the ball....effectively at all.

Is it a weaker O-line? less accurate deep throwing? There's no way, in my mind, that we should be so inneffective for such stretches in games with those pieces.

peloton
11-22-2015, 01:02 PM
Firstly, kudos to those of you who made the trip to Charlottesville to support the team. Watching the game via ESPN3 on my TV (thank you Chromecast) was painful enough for most of the game. I can only imagine how frustrating it was to watch it all unfold in person at an away game. After watching us fall 3 scores behind more than once but seeing the team battle back and make it a competitive game, several things come to mind:

I totally agree that our play calling seems to defy logic sometimes. I trust/hope that Coach Cut will make any appropriate staff changes if it should come to that; upgrading the football program involves both better players and coaches.

I continue to be shocked by Duke fans who over the last 4 weeks or so have said, "we should beat so-and-so". It goes without saying that currently this team has a very fragile psyche and little to no confidence in themselves. As it stands right now, I'm not sure either the fans or team are in a position to say that about any opponent. I certainly hope that we beat the Deacs but should we...given the way this team is playing? In my mind, it's not even remotely close to being a given. We have some physical talent/ability but do we have what it takes between the ears, and do we have the heart?

Concerning the matter of heart - since the Miami game I was beginning to wonder if the team needed a heart transplant operation performed at Duke Medical Center. However, the 4th quarter at Virginia proved to me that this team still has a normally functioning one. Sure, the end result wasn't what we Duke fans wanted but this team showed some real determination in coming back to make this a close game. They could have wallowed in their despair, packed it in, and been blown out on the road but they went down fighting tooth and nail. A loss is a loss but there were some encouraging signs.

I think that at this point, Parker Boehme is our most effective option at quarterback and should start. While Thomas is an effective runner he doesn't (yet) have quite the touch that Parker has when it comes to passing. However, I look forward to seeing them both evolve and become more efficient under Cut's tutelage.

One last thing which has been brought up - we definitely have to improve in the area of putting pressure on quarterbacks. It appeared that Matt Johns for most of the game had way too much time to throw the ball to his receivers. I surely hope that we can improve in this area because opposing quarterbacks seem to have a field day against us passing the ball (Matt Johns had his most passing yards ever against us I believe).

This team still has fight left in it - they proved that in the 4th quarter against UVa. Time to regroup, focus on the Demon Deacs, and play with heart and determination from the start...one quarter doesn't cut it.

75Crazie
11-22-2015, 02:11 PM
I continue to be shocked by Duke fans who over the last 4 weeks or so have said, "we should beat so-and-so". It goes without saying that currently this team has a very fragile psyche and little to no confidence in themselves. As it stands right now, I'm not sure either the fans or team are in a position to say that about any opponent. I certainly hope that we beat the Deacs but should we...given the way this team is playing? In my mind, it's not even remotely close to being a given. We have some physical talent/ability but do we have what it takes between the ears, and do we have the heart?
Wake played both Florida St and Notre Dame very tough. Granted, part of that might well be lack of effort on the part of the heavily-favored opponents. But we appear to be susceptible to that same lack of effort, at times. For my part, I consider this upcoming game to be a toss-up.

Bob Green
11-22-2015, 03:56 PM
I certainly hope that we beat the Deacs but should we...given the way this team is playing? In my mind, it's not even remotely close to being a given. We have some physical talent/ability but do we have what it takes between the ears, and do we have the heart?

We have the heart! Yesterday's 4th quarter proves we have the heart. The team did not quit! The between the ears is questionable. It was a frustrating trip to Charlottesville, but I am glad we (Green Family) went and stayed to the bitter end. Long drive home...figuratively and literally...the traffic on 64 East was brutal all the way to 295.

Class of '94
11-23-2015, 01:55 PM
We have completely abandoned trying to run the ball with our running backs. Yesterday, there were 53 pass plays to 31 run plays. Of the 31 run plays, only 10 were with a running back. A running back ran the ball on 10 of 84 offensive plays or 12 percent of the time. I label that strategy ridiculous and ineffective!

Let's revisit the 34-20 win over Georgia Tech:

25 pass plays
36 run plays
21 run plays with a running back (34 percent)

To be successful, this team absolutely must run the ball more effectively and Step 1 is play calling.

I get what you're saying Bob; but with all due respect, our RBs (particularly Duncan) fumbled the ball when we did go to them. I wonder if are play callers have lost some confidence in our OL and/or RBs right now. I agree that there should be more balance in Duke's offense, and more plays called for RBs/running game besides a QB run. That being said, it seems that our the option run for our QBs (except for the UNC game and to a certain extent the GT game) have been Duke's most effective play in regards to the running game. I am not a fan of it; but its hard to run when you're donw 20+ points in a game; and in the instance where we're trying to mount a comeback, Duncan fumbles the ball on the first play of the second half (after the defense makes a stand), which then leads to a TD for UVA. Again, this team right now is fragile mentally; and it appears that this year's leadership is not as strong as in more recent years unfortunately. When Duncan fumbled at the beginning of the second half, I think the team took (especially the defense) a further step back; but fought back as the second half went along. I don't think it was a coincidence that the defense responded as the offense finally started scoring and making plays. IMO, and I mean no disrespect, the problem right now lies more with the defense and the starting QB than the offensive play-calling. If Cut goes with Parker as the starter (as a passing QB that can scramble when needed a la A Boone); and use Sirk in a B Connette package, I think the QB problem imo would at least be solved. The defense on the other hand will require more work and I'm not sure there's enough time to get that fixed this season. Thankfully, the team is going to a bowl and will hopefully have close to a month to heal-up, practice, and figure out some things on defense.

Gewebe14
11-23-2015, 02:22 PM
I get what you're saying Bob; but with all due respect, our RBs (particularly Duncan) fumbled the ball when we did go to them. I wonder if are play callers have lost some confidence in our OL and/or RBs right now. I agree that there should be more balance in Duke's offense, and more plays called for RBs/running game besides a QB run. That being said, it seems that our the option run for our QBs (except for the UNC game and to a certain extent the GT game) have been Duke's most effective play in regards to the running game. I am not a fan of it; but its hard to run when you're donw 20+ points in a game; and in the instance where we're trying to mount a comeback, Duncan fumbles the ball on the first play of the second half (after the defense makes a stand), which then leads to a TD for UVA. Again, this team right now is fragile mentally; and it appears that this year's leadership is not as strong as in more recent years unfortunately. When Duncan fumbled at the beginning of the second half, I think the team took (especially the defense) a further step back; but fought back as the second half went along. I don't think it was a coincidence that the defense responded as the offense finally started scoring and making plays. IMO, and I mean no disrespect, the problem right now lies more with the defense and the starting QB than the offensive play-calling. If Cut goes with Parker as the starter (as a passing QB that can scramble when needed a la A Boone); and use Sirk in a B Connette package, I think the QB problem imo would at least be solved. The defense on the other hand will require more work and I'm not sure there's enough time to get that fixed this season. Thankfully, the team is going to a bowl and will hopefully have close to a month to heal-up, practice, and figure out some things on defense.

Agreed... I don't have the statistics, but the eye test suggests to me that we have tried running the ball up the middle at least somewhat and it's been horribly ineffective on average. Our only run plays that seem to work are QB draws or powers... I think our O-Line took a bigger step back this year than we would have hoped.

Bob Green
11-23-2015, 03:44 PM
I get what you're saying Bob; but with all due respect, our RBs (particularly Duncan) fumbled the ball when we did go to them. I wonder if are play callers have lost some confidence in our OL and/or RBs right now.

It is true the Duncan fumble was untimely and it hurt the defense to have to go right back on the field after securing a stop on Virginia's first 2nd half possession. I will counter that the 3 and out on 3 incomplete passes, late in the 1st half, after the defense forced a UVa turnover, was equally hurtful.


Agreed... I don't have the statistics, but the eye test suggests to me that we have tried running the ball up the middle at least somewhat and it's been horribly ineffective on average. Our only run plays that seem to work are QB draws or powers... I think our O-Line took a bigger step back this year than we would have hoped.

Duncan rushed 13 times for 115 yards including a 52 yard TD against UNC. He has nine carries total in the two subsequent games. Earlier in the season, Duncan had a 43 yard TD run against Army and a 24 yard TD run against Miami.

Powell rushed 13 times for 98 yards against UNC. He has nine carries total in the two subsequent games. Earlier in the season, Powell had a 30 yard run against Northwestern and a 30 yard TD run against Georgia Tech.

Shaun Wilson had a 58 yard TD run against VT. He rushed 7 times for 43 yards including a 19 yard run against Miami, the play on which he was injured. After missing two games, he ran the ball twice against UVa.

I respect you guys opinions, and concede play calling in a football game is difficult (Danny Kanell called it an Art on ESPN Radio this afternoon), but I have to disagree that the QB keeper is our most effective running play. While the QB keeper is necessary to keep the defense honest, the running backs need to be the primary ball carriers. Duke has three talented running backs, who can effectively run the ball when given the chance.

Class of '94
11-23-2015, 04:05 PM
It
Duncan rushed 13 times for 115 yards including a 52 yard TD against UNC. He has nine carries total in the two subsequent games. Earlier in the season, Duncan had a 43 yard TD run against Army and a 24 yard TD run against Miami.

Powell rushed 13 times for 98 yards against UNC. He has nine carries total in the two subsequent games. Earlier in the season, Powell had a 30 yard run against Northwestern and a 30 yard TD run against Georgia Tech.

Shaun Wilson had a 58 yard TD run against VT. He rushed 7 times for 43 yards including a 19 yard run against Miami, the play on which he was injured. After missing two games, he ran the ball twice against UVa.

I respect you guys opinions, and concede play calling in a football game is difficult (Danny Kanell called it an Art on ESPN Radio this afternoon), but I have to disagree that the QB keeper is our most effective running play. While the QB keeper is necessary to keep the defense honest, the running backs need to be the primary ball carriers. Duke has three talented running backs, who can effectively run the ball when given the chance.

I agree with you that we have 3 really good running backs that need to get the ball more. How do you feel about our OL?

From an eye test perspective, our OL does not appear imo to be as talented and physical as in the last 2 years. They opened up great holes for our RBs in the UNC but imo they haven't been that consistent the whole season. OL is another area imo the coaches really need to take a hard and long look at in the offseason. I think OL has been decent to good in protecting the QB but again not very consistent in opening up holes for our RBs this season. And not to keep harping on this, but I think it would also help our offense to at least go with a 2 QB system with Parker starting; and Sirk coming in as a change of pace QB in the B Connette mold. Not to blame our offense woes on just 1 person, but the bottom line is that our offense has looked better recently with Parker as the QB compared to Sirk. With Parker, it appears that we have the deep ball throws again. TJ Rahming had his best statistical game of the season, and the tight ends (specifically Deaver) have been involved more with Parker. I know I am in the minority on this but I firmly believe that our problems start with the defense (the DL and secondary specifically) and then Sirk, and lastly the play-calling on offense. And keep in mind that the play calling didn't look that bad when Parker was throwing bombs down the field and leading that comeback.

peteandpete
11-23-2015, 05:14 PM
It is true the Duncan fumble was untimely and it hurt the defense to have to go right back on the field after securing a stop on Virginia's first 2nd half possession. I will counter that the 3 and out on 3 incomplete passes, late in the 1st half, after the defense forced a UVa turnover, was equally hurtful.



Duncan rushed 13 times for 115 yards including a 52 yard TD against UNC. He has nine carries total in the two subsequent games. Earlier in the season, Duncan had a 43 yard TD run against Army and a 24 yard TD run against Miami.

Powell rushed 13 times for 98 yards against UNC. He has nine carries total in the two subsequent games. Earlier in the season, Powell had a 30 yard run against Northwestern and a 30 yard TD run against Georgia Tech.

Shaun Wilson had a 58 yard TD run against VT. He rushed 7 times for 43 yards including a 19 yard run against Miami, the play on which he was injured. After missing two games, he ran the ball twice against UVa.

I respect you guys opinions, and concede play calling in a football game is difficult (Danny Kanell called it an Art on ESPN Radio this afternoon), but I have to disagree that the QB keeper is our most effective running play. While the QB keeper is necessary to keep the defense honest, the running backs need to be the primary ball carriers. Duke has three talented running backs, who can effectively run the ball when given the chance.

Virginia is one of the weakest conference teams against the rush. I watched some of their other games and they seemed vulnerable especially on the edge. It seems we are reluctant to attack opponents on the outside with our ground game. Bob, like you, I was optimistic that we could and would take advantage of this against Virginia. We seem to limit how much field opponents have to defend with our ground game...constantly staying between the tackles. Even Sirk seems to head back toward the middle of the field on keepers when there appears to be more open field to the outside. We seldom use misdirection. I know we fell behind early, but there was plenty of time to use the ground game more, possibly giving the defense more rest.
As for the defense, not being challenged early by decent passing attacks has probably prevented them from having the opportunity to improve as much as they need to. Certainly injuries have hurt some there but we have made too many fundamental mistakes leading to receivers getting behind us. Often it's happened on third and long and as a result we don't get off the field as quickly as we should. We haven't been able to create turnovers and our punt return team is not the threat it was with Crowder back there.
We have committed too many penalties before the snap on offense, too. I don't like to call out individuals (coaches or players), but offsides on a wide receiver....thank goodness he had a great game catching the ball. In spite of graduation losses and injuries, we are talented enough to be 8-3 or 9-2. I think we have gotten spoiled by Cut's ability to prepare, make adjustments, and get the kids to successfully execute, but lately it seems the bad guys have done a better job of exploiting weaknesses than we have.

Bob Green
11-23-2015, 05:32 PM
How do you feel about our OL?

We do not have the one dominant guy on the line like we had with Laken Tomlinson in past seasons and replacing a NFL 1st rounder is a huge task. Add in the loss of Takoby Cofield to the NFL and Redshirt Senior Cody Robinson being injured all season and yeah the offensive line has faced some challenges in 2015; however, the OL remains a strong unit. Our running backs have solid yards per carry numbers and the OL deserves their fair share of the credit. I remain convinced the issue with the running backs is they do not get enough carries.

Jela Duncan - 6.7 yards per carry (46 carries)
Shaquille Powell - 4.6 yards per carry (107 carries)
Shaun Wilson - 4.5 yards per carry (70 carries)

The issue isn't yards per carry it is carries per game!

For comparisons sake:

Derrick Henry - 6.1 yards per carry (249 carries)
Leonard Fournette - 6.6 yards per carry (239 carries)
Ezekiel Elliot - 6.3 yards per carry (232 carries)

Jela Duncan is averaging more yards per carry than three of the top running backs in the nation yet he has only carried the ball 46 times in 8 games or 5.75 carries per game. He should be running the ball between 12 - 15 times per game.