Thoughts on Obi, Vrankovic and Robinson: PT and redshirt

[scottdude8]

I've seen thoughts on this in various threads over the last week or two, so I figured it might be beneficial to make a thread designated to thoughts on this topic. I, like a lot of people on the board, assumed going into the year that Obi would be the 9th man in the rotation, and Vrancovic and Robinson would likely redshirt. However, Vrancovic has played in both games this year, while Obi didn't get any PT yesterday (at least according to the box score, I unfortunately couldn't catch the game). It does appear Robinson might be heading towards a redshirt as we expected based on the fact that he got no burn in the first two contests this year.

Has anyone heard any scuttlebutt on what the staff thinks of Obi v. Vrancovic this year? I was very optimistic about Obi's potential based on what I had been hearing last year, but it seems as if Vrancovic may have jumped him in the rotation already. Robinson redshirting makes a lot of sense considering he wouldn't get anything more than garbage time this year, and if he follows in his Dad's footsteps he may have a lot of room to grow with an extra year of eligibility.

Thoughts? Info? Snappy comments?

[jimsumner]

I've seen thoughts on this in various threads over the last week or two, so I figured it might be beneficial to make a thread designated to thoughts on this topic. I, like a lot of people on the board, assumed going into the year that Obi would be the 9th man in the rotation, and Vrancovic and Robinson would likely redshirt. However, Vrancovic has played in both games this year, while Obi didn't get any PT yesterday (at least according to the box score, I unfortunately couldn't catch the game). It does appear Robinson might be heading towards a redshirt as we expected based on the fact that he got no burn in the first two contests this year.

Has anyone heard any scuttlebutt on what the staff thinks of Obi v. Vrancovic this year? I was very optimistic about Obi's potential based on what I had been hearing last year, but it seems as if Vrancovic may have jumped him in the rotation already. Robinson redshirting makes a lot of sense considering he wouldn't get anything more than garbage time this year, and if he follows in his Dad's footsteps he may have a lot of room to grow with an extra year of eligibility.

Thoughts? Info? Snappy comments?

I asked around a bit last night concerning Obi. Either no one knew anything or no one was willing to talk. But I'm pretty sure the decision to not redshirt Vrankovic (note the spelling) is directly related to Obi's ability to help this team, or lack thereof.

[Olympic Fan]

I've seen thoughts on this in various threads over the last week or two, so I figured it might be beneficial to make a thread designated to thoughts on this topic. I, like a lot of people on the board, assumed going into the year that Obi would be the 9th man in the rotation, and Vrancovic and Robinson would likely redshirt. However, Vrancovic has played in both games this year, while Obi didn't get any PT yesterday (at least according to the box score, I unfortunately couldn't catch the game). It does appear Robinson might be heading towards a redshirt as we expected based on the fact that he got no burn in the first two contests this year.

Has anyone heard any scuttlebutt on what the staff thinks of Obi v. Vrancovic this year? I was very optimistic about Obi's potential based on what I had been hearing last year, but it seems as if Vrancovic may have jumped him in the rotation already. Robinson redshirting makes a lot of sense considering he wouldn't get anything more than garbage time this year, and if he follows in his Dad's footsteps he may have a lot of room to grow with an extra year of eligibility.

Thoughts? Info? Snappy comments?

No insider info, but I was really surprised Obi didn't get off the bench Saturday night. Was he hurt or sick?

Coach K talked about Obi evolving into the team's ninth man and based on what I saw in the two exhibitions and the opener, he could have a role -- he's our strongest big man (and least mobile); he has no offensive game, but he has good hands. I could see situations where we need his strength inside against a powerful opposing big man.

Just one point about Obi. Somebody joking raised the transfer issue with the team in another thread. Well, when you look at it over the years, the only guys who transfer in midseason are upperclassmen who aren't playing. No freshman is going to transfer at midseason until he has off-court issues we don't know about (Andre Sweet is the only one I can think of -- and he was academically unable to compete). It HAS to be an upperclassman who is not playing -- and right now, Obi is the only non-freshman not in the rotation. On the other hand, he's already transferred once, so leaving again would cost him a year that he can't get back (unless he drops down a level and plays at Division II).

Believe me, I'm not saying he's transferring or even a transfer candidate based on one game. Heck, he might have a stomach flu .. or he might have been late for a meeting. And he's a guy I'd like to have around next year -- when MP3 and Amile are gone, that opens up a lot of minutes in the post. I know we have two freshman power forwards coming in, but I think there will be times when we need a low post slug-it-out type guy. Vrank will be the only guy on the roster that has that kind of body.

BTW: As long as you include Vrank in the title thread, let me say I like what little I can see. I know it's just garbage time, but he seems to have very good hands and he moves very well. He doesn't seem to get off the floor vertically, but he is strong and fast -- he finished a fast break Saturday night that stunned me how quickly he got up and down the floor. In a way, he looks like a young Marshall Plumlee -- whether he ends up better or worse than MP3, I don't know, but physically, I think they are similar.

[Dukehky]

So far, Obi has not performed well enough in practice to help the team. He is not going to transfer out. He may still be struggling from a nagging injury, but I would be surprised if he works his way into any kind of rotation this year.

[Potato Head]

He'll get his chance. Nobody in the big man rotation is playing poorly, and Vrankovic didn't make a single mistake in his cameo. Sucks for Obi at the moment, but it's a long season and he's only a Sophomore.

[Ultrarunner]

So far, Obi has not performed well enough in practice to help the team. He is not going to transfer out. He may still be struggling from a nagging injury, but I would be surprised if he works his way into any kind of rotation this year.

I can see Obi getting into the rotation in grinder games. His size and rebounding ability against bulkier interior players like Kennedy Meeks or Joel James can be definite assets. His relative lack of mobility, though, will hurt when we're flying up and down the court, as has been the case for the last two games. Will he garner major minutes? Not likely, but there will be a couple of times this season where I think we're going to be glad he's on the squad.

[dukelifer]

No insider info, but I was really surprised Obi didn't get off the bench Saturday night. Was he hurt or sick?

Coach K talked about Obi evolving into the team's ninth man and based on what I saw in the two exhibitions and the opener, he could have a role -- he's our strongest big man (and least mobile); he has no offensive game, but he has good hands. I could see situations where we need his strength inside against a powerful opposing big man.

Just one point about Obi. Somebody joking raised the transfer issue with the team in another thread. Well, when you look at it over the years, the only guys who transfer in midseason are upperclassmen who aren't playing. No freshman is going to transfer at midseason until he has off-court issues we don't know about (Andre Sweet is the only one I can think of -- and he was academically unable to compete). It HAS to be an upperclassman who is not playing -- and right now, Obi is the only non-freshman not in the rotation. On the other hand, he's already transferred once, so leaving again would cost him a year that he can't get back (unless he drops down a level and plays at Division II).

Believe me, I'm not saying he's transferring or even a transfer candidate based on one game. Heck, he might have a stomach flu .. or he might have been late for a meeting. And he's a guy I'd like to have around next year -- when MP3 and Amile are gone, that opens up a lot of minutes in the post. I know we have two freshman power forwards coming in, but I think there will be times when we need a low post slug-it-out type guy. Vrank will be the only guy on the roster that has that kind of body.

BTW: As long as you include Vrank in the title thread, let me say I like what little I can see. I know it's just garbage time, but he seems to have very good hands and he moves very well. He doesn't seem to get off the floor vertically, but he is strong and fast -- he finished a fast break Saturday night that stunned me how quickly he got up and down the floor. In a way, he looks like a young Marshall Plumlee -- whether he ends up better or worse than MP3, I don't know, but physically, I think they are similar.
A young Marshall Plumlee with better hands. Marshall has improved a ton since his Freshman year in his ability to catch the ball.

[Dukehky]

I can see Obi getting into the rotation in grinder games. His size and rebounding ability against bulkier interior players like Kennedy Meeks or Joel James can be definite assets. His relative lack of mobility, though, will hurt when we're flying up and down the court, as has been the case for the last two games. Will he garner major minutes? Not likely, but there will be a couple of times this season where I think we're going to be glad he's on the squad.

I understand the rationale behind this, but I just don't seem to remember a time where K put people in strictly because of size except in foul trouble situations. Like in 2012 when we just had no small forwards, Gbinije never saw any time, similar to Murph in 2013, especially when Kelly went out.

Maybe I'm wrong, and would obviously love if we had another weapon that we could put into the game, but I don't see K putting Obi in, in arguably our two toughest games of the season just because he's big.

Note: If Meeks or James is in the game, especially together or with Johnson, I'll take the trade off of one of them having to guard Ingram. K doesn't make size adjustments to my recollection, he wants to make you beat our best line-up per the situation, and it doesn't look like that is going to include Obi.

Also, I agree with some of the sentiment that I thought Vrank looked really solid when catching and finishing. If he runs the court like that and gets passes delivered to him, that is a similar situation he can get against any teams. I don't think getting rebounds over 6'5 guys or scoring on post ups against the like is very indicative of what he can do against good opponents, but I do think catching and finishing in transition from kind of difficult angles is a transferrable skill. I like that addition to this recruiting class more and more every day.

[Olympic Fan]

So far, Obi has not performed well enough in practice to help the team. He is not going to transfer out. He may still be struggling from a nagging injury, but I would be surprised if he works his way into any kind of rotation this year.

I'm not suggesting that he should be in the rotation yet ... but the fact that he didn't play at all last night in a 40-point blowout is a curious circumstance.

But again, I was not suggesting that he is going to transfer -- it doesn't make sense after giving up a year already. If he continues to be relegated to the depth of the bench, he might as well wait until he can use the grad transfer rule before his senior year -- as Adam Smith (UNCW, VPI and now Georgia Tech) and Eli Carter (Rutgers, Florida and now BC) have done to transfer for a second time without losing any extra time.

But that's a long way off.

[Troublemaker]

I can see Obi getting into the rotation in grinder games. His size and rebounding ability against bulkier interior players like Kennedy Meeks or Joel James can be definite assets. His relative lack of mobility, though, will hurt when we're flying up and down the court, as has been the case for the last two games. Will he garner major minutes? Not likely, but there will be a couple of times this season where I think we're going to be glad he's on the squad.

I agree, although I'm not sure my example would've been UNC. The Duke-UNC games might be played in the 90s this season.

I was thinking a team like UVA that might force us into a slowdown game. If, for whatever reason, Mike Tobey* is really taking it to Marshall, scoring inside and beating him on the offensive glass, then Obi could be inserted to defensive rebound and for his post defense, which Andre Drummond apparently raved about.

* Don't laugh. My UVA friends say Tobey's really improved this year.

[fuse]

Obi is a puzzle to me- wish him nothing but the best and an opportunity to shine.

I came away from the Blue White game thinking Vrankovic was more ready to play than I expected.
Ran the floor well, good court sense, good hands. To be fair I had zero expectations.
Vrankovic strikes me as more of the Plumlee style banger.

[JNort]

Obi is a puzzle to me- wish him nothing but the best and an opportunity to shine.

I came away from the Blue White game thinking Vrankovic was more ready to play than I expected.
Ran the floor well, good court sense, good hands. To be fair I had zero expectations.
Vrankovic strikes me as more of the Plumlee style banger.


A young Marshall Plumlee with better hands. Marshall has improved a ton since his Freshman year in his ability to catch the ball.

I honestly saw a freshmen Zoubek. What we expected of a freshmen Zoubek anyway

[rifraf]

I tweeted at Laura Keely the other day, and she responded [paraphrasing] that Obi hasn't performed in practice well enough to crack the rotation. Alluded to the fact that he may have just been a miss when it came to evaluations.

[Edouble]

I tweeted at Laura Keely the other day, and she responded [paraphrasing] that Obi hasn't performed in practice well enough to crack the rotation. Alluded to the fact that he may have just been a miss when it came to evaluations.

That is great insight and I say this with much respect, but next time can you post the actual tweets? I am super curious now as to what she said that alluded to Obi being a miss.

[-jk]

That is great insight and I say this with much respect, but next time can you post the actual tweets? I am super curious now as to what she said that alluded to Obi being a miss.

C'mon. Her twitter feed (https://twitter.com/laurakeeley/status/665341906751090692) isn't that hard to find.

-jk

[FireOgilvie]

I have a really hard time believing that Obi was actually a "missed evaluation" as Keeley says. If you watched him play one game at Rice, you knew he was never going to start for us and had to improve physically just to become a solid role player. He's very strong, but he's not that tall, he's slow and can't jump. These are things that are easy to see when evaluating any player, and our staff is really good at evaluating talent. Having said that, if we actually gave him significant minutes I'm sure he'd still pull in close to 10 rebounds a game (at the cost of rim protection and scoring). He's a very good rebounder.

[Edouble]

C'mon. Her twitter feed (https://twitter.com/laurakeeley/status/665341906751090692) isn't that hard to find.

-jk

Yes, her Twitter feed is easy to find. I follow her actually.

But the tweet you linked is the 94th tweet down in her feed. That would have taken me a good while to find. Probably about 10-15 minutes. It took me five minutes just to find it and count back up to prove my point... it is very difficult to go in and find one isolated tweet.

Most people on the boards directly quote full tweets when they reference them. Probably due to the difficulty in finding one specific tweet, particularly from more prolific tweeters like Laura Keeley.

[luburch]

Yes, her Twitter feed is easy to find. I follow her actually.

But the tweet you linked is the 94th tweet down in her feed. That would have taken me a good while to find. Probably about 10-15 minutes. It took me five minutes just to find it and count back up to prove my point... it is very difficult to go in and find one isolated tweet.

Most people on the boards directly quote full tweets when they reference them. Probably due to the difficulty in finding one specific tweet, particularly from more prolific tweeters like Laura Keeley.

As a tip in case you are trying to find specific tweets in the future you can search "@laurakeeley Obi" and limit the results. I found this out a little over a year ago and it made life much easier.

[Edouble]

As a tip in case you are trying to find specific tweets in the future you can search "@laurakeeley Obi" and limit the results. I found this out a little over a year ago and it made life much easier.

What a nice, helpful comment. Sporks for you. I appreciate it. I will use this technique in the future.

[Listen to Quants]

I've seen thoughts on this in various threads over the last week or two, so I figured it might be beneficial to make a thread designated to thoughts on this topic. I, like a lot of people on the board, assumed going into the year that Obi would be the 9th man in the rotation, and Vrancovic and Robinson would likely redshirt. However, Vrancovic has played in both games this year, while Obi didn't get any PT yesterday (at least according to the box score, I unfortunately couldn't catch the game). It does appear Robinson might be heading towards a redshirt as we expected based on the fact that he got no burn in the first two contests this year.

Has anyone heard any scuttlebutt on what the staff thinks of Obi v. Vrancovic this year? I was very optimistic about Obi's potential based on what I had been hearing last year, but it seems as if Vrancovic may have jumped him in the rotation already. Robinson redshirting makes a lot of sense considering he wouldn't get anything more than garbage time this year, and if he follows in his Dad's footsteps he may have a lot of room to grow with an extra year of eligibility.

Thoughts? Info? Snappy comments?

Perhaps Vrankovic does not want to red-shirt. He was reared in Croatia, I think, and his dad was a Croatian (and NBA) pro. If he counts as Croatian for purposes of European professional basketball he might be aiming to turn pro after 4 (or fewer?) years of college.

[OldPhiKap]

Makes sense for Vrank the Tank to get going this year.

1. He may get some time, especially if we have an injury or foul trouble in the front court.
2. Why redshirt and wait for Giles to get here?

[Kedsy]

Makes sense for Vrank the Tank to get going this year.

1. He may get some time, especially if we have an injury or foul trouble in the front court.

Unlikely. We'd have to have several injuries or players in foul trouble before Antonio sees more than garbage time minutes.


2. Why redshirt and wait for Giles to get here?

Because for a player like Antonio, it's not his freshman/sophomore year that's important. It's junior and senior years.

If you're not ready, you're not ready. Just think how awesome Ryan Kelly would have been on the 2014 team. Or even Eric Meek in 1996. On the other side, this year for Marshall will certainly be more productive and presumably more satisfying than if he'd hugged the bench in 2012. I'd think that would be universally true for a player who plans to use up his eligibility and isn't going to play much as a true freshman.

[jimsumner]

Unlikely. We'd have to have several injuries or players in foul trouble before Antonio sees more than garbage time minutes.



Because for a player like Antonio, it's not his freshman/sophomore year that's important. It's junior and senior years.

If you're not ready, you're not ready. Just think how awesome Ryan Kelly would have been on the 2014 team. Or even Eric Meek in 1996. On the other side, this year for Marshall will certainly be more productive and presumably more satisfying than if he'd hugged the bench in 2012. I'd think that would be universally true for a player who plans to use up his eligibility and isn't going to play much as a true freshman.

The basic question one has to ask in this situation is will this player be more valuable as a fifth-year senior than as a true freshman?

Other variable may intrude and Vrankovic may well want to play in Europe sooner rather than later.

But I am surprised he's not sitting out this season.

[awhom111]

Perhaps Vrankovic does not want to red-shirt. He was reared in Croatia, I think, and his dad was a Croatian (and NBA) pro. If he counts as Croatian for purposes of European professional basketball he might be aiming to turn pro after 4 (or fewer?) years of college.

Vrankovic does in fact count as Croatian. He actually played for their U16 team three years ago:
http://www.fibaeurope.com/compID_YUjW-7-FJ,kK9s431Lyr41.season_2012.roundID_8814.teamID_21 68.playerID_99367.html

Even if he turns out not to be that great, he can use that to have a pretty long career in Europe.

[luburch]

Unlikely. We'd have to have several injuries or players in foul trouble before Antonio sees more than garbage time minutes.



Because for a player like Antonio, it's not his freshman/sophomore year that's important. It's junior and senior years.

If you're not ready, you're not ready. Just think how awesome Ryan Kelly would have been on the 2014 team. Or even Eric Meek in 1996. On the other side, this year for Marshall will certainly be more productive and presumably more satisfying than if he'd hugged the bench in 2012. I'd think that would be universally true for a player who plans to use up his eligibility and isn't going to play much as a true freshman.

Maybe he redshirts his sophomore season instead?

I'm not sure this is likely, especially with Plumlee and Jefferson leaving, but I suppose it's worth a thought.

[MCFinARL]

Maybe he redshirts his sophomore season instead?

I'm not sure this is likely, especially with Plumlee and Jefferson leaving, but I suppose it's worth a thought.

And maybe that is it. With Plumlee and Jefferson leaving, Duke will need someone in the front court to back up Giles and Delaurier; if Obi isn't looking promising it might be important to get Vrankovic at least a little bit of PT to prepare for next year, no?