PDA

View Full Version : FB: Duke 13, Pitt 31



devildeac
11-11-2015, 10:20 AM
Another shootout or can we correct our myriad of defensive miscues, make the offense a bit more productive and get back in the W column?

duke blue brewcrew
11-11-2015, 10:26 AM
Another shootout or can we correct our myriad of defensive miscues, make the offense a bit more productive and get back in the W column?

I'll take option 2 please! Duke needs to get back on track with the D, find a way to pressure the QB w/o having to blitz, establish some offensive rhythm and increase time of possession on offense. I would like to see a nice balance of run/pass for Duke on O, and it sure would be nice to see some more angry runs by Jela...love that kid!

Bob Green
11-11-2015, 02:53 PM
...find a way to pressure the QB w/o having to blitz...

That's not going to happen. Pressuring the quarterback via successful execution of the blitz is what must happen.

[Broken record]The offense needs to establish the run to set-up the pass![/Broken record]

Olympic Fan
11-11-2015, 05:20 PM
I just got through listening to the ACC teleconference and one of the themes was how much Pat Narduzzi has improved Pitt's defense this year.

Okay, I know that he is considered a great defensive coach -- the architect of Michigan State's great defenses in recent years. But has he made Pitt that much better on defense?

Last year, under Paul Chryst, Pitt gave up 26.3 points and 359.8 yards a game.

So far this season under Narduzzi, Pitt is allowing 24.5 points and 348.3 yards a game.

Big difference ... 1.8 less points and 11.5 less yards. And in fact, Pitt is giving up more yards per play this season (5.8) than a year ago (5.6).

Their offense is way down -- from 31.8 points and 435.4 yards a game last year to 25.8 points and 373.2 yards this season. Of course, losing James Conner -- the preseason ACC player of the year -- before the season didn't help. It should help Duke -- he's rushed for 448 yards against Duke the last two years.

Pitt does deserve credit for quality losses -- they've lost to Iowa and Notre Dame in the top 10 and UNC which is ranked. But they also had some tough wins against some mediocre teams -- a 17-14 win vs. Va Tech (which was without Brewer at QB), a 23-20 win over Syracuse, a 26-19 win over Georgia Tech and a 26-19 win over Virginia.

Okay, they played UNC much better than we did (losing 26-19), but this is not some juggernaut. If we play well, don't turn the ball over and get back to our old form on special teams, this is a game Duke can win. The biggest concern is QB Nate Peterman throwing to WR Tyler Boyd -- Peterman is okay, but Boyd is the best wide receiver in the ACC and after Duke's coverage Saturday, that could be a big problem.

But a big game -- one that probably keeps us in Tier One of the ACC bowl order. It also keeps alive a shot at the ACC Coastal Division title. I know that UNC would have to lose out to give us a shot at the ACC title game, but the tiebreaker only applies to picking the title game representative. If Duke and UNC ended up 6-2 in the ACC, they would be co-champs (despite the beating they put on us). UNC's next three games are Miami at home, at Virginia Tech (in Frank Beamer's last home game) and at NC State (a team that hammered them in Chapel Hill in last year's finale) -- two losses out of three is not likely, but it's not impossible.

Duke needs to win out to take advantage of that possibility -- and while a Pitt win won't guarantee that, the Devils would certainly be favored the next two weeks at Virginia and at Wake.

devildeac
11-11-2015, 05:41 PM
I just got through listening to the ACC teleconference and one of the themes was how much Pat Narduzzi has improved Pitt's defense this year.

Okay, I know that he is considered a great defensive coach -- the architect of Michigan State's great defenses in recent years. But has he made Pitt that much better on defense?

Last year, under Paul Chryst, Pitt gave up 26.3 points and 359.8 yards a game.

So far this season under Narduzzi, Pitt is allowing 24.5 points and 348.3 yards a game.

Big difference ... 1.8 less points and 11.5 less yards. And in fact, Pitt is giving up more yards per play this season (5.8) than a year ago (5.6).

Their offense is way down -- from 31.8 points and 435.4 yards a game last year to 25.8 points and 373.2 yards this season. Of course, losing James Conner -- the preseason ACC player of the year -- before the season didn't help. It should help Duke -- he's rushed for 448 yards against Duke the last two years.

Pitt does deserve credit for quality losses -- they've lost to Iowa and Notre Dame in the top 10 and UNC which is ranked. But they also had some tough wins against some mediocre teams -- a 17-14 win vs. Va Tech (which was without Brewer at QB), a 23-20 win over Syracuse, a 26-19 win over Georgia Tech and a 26-19 win over Virginia.

Okay, they played UNC much better than we did (losing 26-19), but this is not some juggernaut. If we play well, don't turn the ball over and get back to our old form on special teams, this is a game Duke can win. The biggest concern is QB Nate Peterman throwing to WR Tyler Boyd -- Peterman is okay, but Boyd is the best wide receiver in the ACC and after Duke's coverage Saturday, that could be a big problem.

But a big game -- one that probably keeps us in Tier One of the ACC bowl order. It also keeps alive a shot at the ACC Coastal Division title. I know that UNC would have to lose out to give us a shot at the ACC title game, but the tiebreaker only applies to picking the title game representative. If Duke and UNC ended up 6-2 in the ACC, they would be co-champs (despite the beating they put on us). UNC's next three games are Miami at home, at Virginia Tech (in Frank Beamer's last home game) and at NC State (a team that hammered them in Chapel Hill in last year's finale) -- two losses out of three is not likely, but it's not impossible.

Duke needs to win out to take advantage of that possibility -- and while a Pitt win won't guarantee that, the Devils would certainly be favored the next two weeks at Virginia and at Wake.

Forecast is for 54 in Derm on Saturday. Not sure if that's the over/under or the number of points we'll need to "hold" Pitt to for a chance to win this one:rolleyes:.

Bob Green
11-12-2015, 03:47 PM
5688

OldPhiKap
11-12-2015, 09:54 PM
Big game, big challenge. Time to define the season. Go Duke!

Devilwin
11-13-2015, 02:11 PM
Big game, big challenge. Time to define the season. Go Duke!

Time to turn this around. Still got a small chance at the Coastal. Game is on ESPN NEWS, channel 207 on Direct TV in my area.

ramdevil
11-13-2015, 03:16 PM
Come to the game! I am making my weekly pitch to come out and cheer for our Blue Devil football team, especially on senior day. Plus it will be a perfect fall day to enjoy the game, be back on campus, and listen to the band.

ramdevil

Pghdukie
11-13-2015, 04:03 PM
Anyone know the status of Sirk ? Will he play ?

Devilwin
11-13-2015, 04:07 PM
Anyone know the status of Sirk ? Will he play ?

Bleacher report still saying day to day, questionable.

Pghdukie
11-13-2015, 04:20 PM
Thanks. We have a much better chance of controlling the ball with Sirk. Otherwise we'll see 8 in the box

Devilwin
11-13-2015, 04:45 PM
Agreed, but Boehme is a tough quarterback as well, actually I think he is more accurate than Sirk, tough runner too.

nyesq83
11-13-2015, 04:59 PM
Sorry I won't be able to make it tomorrow, I have to work.

But I urge anyone and everyone to go in my stead and cheer on the team.

Go Duke!

Hoping I might be able to go to the Wake road game to end the season.

Bob Green
11-14-2015, 05:15 AM
Game Day! The Green Family will be headed west and south in a few minutes. Go Duke! Beat Pitt!! Run the Ball!!! Please, please, please...run the ball!

OldPhiKap
11-14-2015, 09:15 AM
All the games in November are big. LGD!

peloton
11-14-2015, 09:31 AM
Come to the game! I am making my weekly pitch to come out and cheer for our Blue Devil football team, especially on senior day. Plus it will be a perfect fall day to enjoy the game, be back on campus, and listen to the band.

ramdevil

Ramdevil, okay - you talked me into it :) - I'll be there with several in tow...one of my brothers and his son, my dad (Duke grad many years ago), and 2 family friends who are big Duke fans. I certainly didn't enjoy the end results of both the Miami and Ewe in Sea games and it's (past) time to get back on the winning track. You're so right about our needing to express gratitude to the seniors - they all certainly deserve a huge hand. My loudest applause may be saved for Jeremy Cash though...he took a chance on David Cutcliffe and Duke football and for that, I sincerely thank him. Let's go Duke! Time to get back on the winning track and punish Pitt!

By the way, it would be great to meet any DBR folks at the game. I typically try to stop by Blue Devil Alley and say hello to CB&B, DevilDeac, and others.

killerleft
11-14-2015, 10:50 AM
Beautiful day, Durhamites! Get to Wally Wade. GO Duke!

OldPhiKap
11-14-2015, 11:02 AM
Wish I was there! Beautiful fall day. Football weather. Go DUKE!!!!

-jk
11-14-2015, 11:47 AM
Senior Day! DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

duke09hms
11-14-2015, 12:49 PM
52yd run by Boehme into red zone goes for no pts.

84crazy
11-14-2015, 12:56 PM
Almost no positive special teams plays and inability to score touchdowns in the redzone are killing us this year. They were both big strenghs for us the last three years.

duke09hms
11-14-2015, 12:57 PM
Boehme doing a great job in his first game starting. Nice touch on his passes. Only a little drop off in running ability. Might have a QB battle on our hands.

duke09hms
11-14-2015, 01:07 PM
Yep our defense has been overrated from padding stats against outmatched/imbalanced offenses.

duke79
11-14-2015, 01:17 PM
Boehme doing a great job in his first game starting. Nice touch on his passes. Only a little drop off in running ability. Might have a QB battle on our hands.

Agreed. Boehme looks good. A more "natural" (and accurate) passer than Sirk, IMHO. A good athlete too. Cut may have a tough decision on his hands going forward, assuming Boehme continues to play well.

duke09hms
11-14-2015, 01:19 PM
Offense looks better with Parker at QB. I saw swing passes that actually led the receiver for positive yards.

84crazy
11-14-2015, 01:31 PM
they drive to the 30 once and get as many points as we do in two drives inside their ten yard line jeez

duke09hms
11-14-2015, 01:45 PM
Don't think we've run jela in their end zone.

martydoesntfoul
11-14-2015, 02:07 PM
Don't worry. Duke gets all the calls. Pathetic holding call, horrible robbery on the INT. When do things start breaking our way??

Devil77
11-14-2015, 02:10 PM
Disgraceful call.

OldPhiKap
11-14-2015, 02:13 PM
Didn't know that Lenny Wirtz called football games too. Sheesh.

duke09hms
11-14-2015, 02:28 PM
Parker has a much better passing touch. Receivers are dropping multiple TD passes.

martydoesntfoul
11-14-2015, 02:36 PM
Where is everybody? This thread is barely alive. The FG was the break we've been looking for... let's go out and have a huge 4th!

duke09hms
11-14-2015, 02:42 PM
Defense can't defend pass against Miami with new QB let alone UNC. Now can't defend the run against Pitt without their star RB.

Lol well looks like we might be favorites to win our first bowl game in 50 yrs

duke09hms
11-14-2015, 02:46 PM
Nice to see Deaver get involved today

martydoesntfoul
11-14-2015, 02:59 PM
Nice to see Deaver get involved today

Agreed.

martydoesntfoul
11-14-2015, 03:01 PM
I thought we were a fourth quarter, mistake-free team.

duke09hms
11-14-2015, 03:05 PM
I thought we were a fourth quarter, mistake-free team.

Only against bad teams.

Devilwin
11-14-2015, 03:07 PM
Pitiful performance. Defense cannot stop them. Hope we can win our last two, but not gonna bet on it. Everything went wrong..Again. This looks like a team of the 90's.:mad:

FerryFor50
11-14-2015, 03:18 PM
This looks like a team of the 90's.:mad:

Except they have 6 wins and are bowl eligible already.

I remember when Duke couldn't beat the Tulanes of the world in football and went 0-10 one season.

Progress is progress.

Here's to 8-4!

Devil77
11-14-2015, 03:23 PM
Gherkin bowl.

Henderson
11-14-2015, 04:01 PM
I stand by my comments posted after last week's game. Multiple flames and an infraction later, I consider myself vindicated. Feel free to post your apologies in the forum or by PM. You know who you are.

Devil77
11-14-2015, 04:04 PM
Gherkin bowl.

Why do I have a flame?

duke09hms
11-14-2015, 04:07 PM
I stand by my comments posted after last week's game. Multiple flames and an infraction later, I consider myself vindicated. Feel free to post your apologies in the forum or by PM. You know who you are.

Can you message me your post? Curious now.

Hoping for Military Bowl! Let's win a bowl game! First in 54 years!

Potato Head
11-14-2015, 04:41 PM
The thesis statement was: Duke Football sucks and until we're national championship contenders we should just ignore it.

Tripping William
11-14-2015, 04:43 PM
Can you message me your post? Curious now.

Hoping for Military Bowl! Let's win a bowl game! First in 54 years!

Yeah, looking like our ceiling is December 28 In The Annapolis.

Devilwin
11-14-2015, 04:45 PM
What I said was they look like a team of the 90's. And right now, they certainly do. I am very proud of Cut's progress with this program, but to say they have not taken a couple steps back is just not being realistic. But you're correct, I recall those bad old days all too well.

DevilWearsPrada
11-14-2015, 04:45 PM
We must finish out the next two games with a Win, and get a good Bowl Game!!!!

I still LOVE my BLUE DEVILS!!!!

sagegrouse
11-14-2015, 04:49 PM
The thesis statement was: Duke Football sucks and until we're national championship contenders we should just ignore it.


What I said was they look like a team of the 90's. And right now, they certainly do. I am very proud of Cut's progress with this program, but to say they have not taken a couple steps back is just not being realistic. But you're correct, I recall those bad old days all too well.


We must finish out the next two games with a Win, and get a good Bowl Game!!!!

I still LOVE my BLUE DEVILS!!!!

We played the game without our starting QB and had a fairly predictable result. Duke and Parker Boehme did well in the 1st half, outgaining Pitt on both offense and defense. Better red zone calls would have produced a lead at the half.

I thought Parker, who had never started a game before, came unglued in the second half -- maybe a bit of panic at having to play from behind.

Go Duke!

Sixthman
11-14-2015, 04:52 PM
What I said was they look like a team of the 90's. And right now, they certainly do. I am very proud of Cut's progress with this program, but to say they have not taken a couple steps back is just not being realistic. But you're correct, I recall those bad old days all too well.

Our defense reminded me today of the contain but don't tackle days of the early 2000s. We looked like the better team in the first half but we' were undeniably out coached by way of half time adjustments and arguably by a failure to inspire the team to play with purpose and fire.

duke09hms
11-14-2015, 04:54 PM
We've lost to every team with a winning record this year. Offensive play-calling continues to be extremely suspect. How Scottie Montgomery still has a job after this season is beyond me. We get too cute every time we get to the goal-line. How the hell does Jela Duncan only have FOUR carries this game. And nope, not gonna complain about the DPIs that negated a drive-ending sack or INT. Can't do that after the Miami game.

Just to show how far the gap has widened between us and UNC, they're blowing out Miami 24-0 with Brad Kaaya back for the Canes.

Looks like we're either going to the Military Bowl (DC), Quick Lane Bowl (Detroit), Camping World Independence Bowl (Shreveport, LA), or St. Petersburg Bowl.
I guess we should hope for Military or St. Pete's since they're against AAC teams, ostensibly easier foes? Quick Lane is Big 10, and Independence is SEC.

Hope we can finish 8-4. UVA won't be easy since they're always talented but poorly coached. Wake is less talented but may be coached better than we are at this point.

gep
11-14-2015, 05:02 PM
What I said was they look like a team of the 90's. And right now, they certainly do. I am very proud of Cut's progress with this program, but to say they have not taken a couple steps back is just not being realistic. But you're correct, I recall those bad old days all too well.

After the last couple of years, wasn't this year supposed to be a rebuilding year? :confused: 8-4 and a bowl victory, I think, would be a pretty good rebuilding year... STILL possible.

Olympic Fan
11-14-2015, 05:02 PM
Well, the third time Duke has gambled on fourth and one at the goal line and failed -- we survived the failure against BC, but the misses early against Miami and Pitt were HUGE momentum plays.

Two other plays hurt badly -- the two Pitt fumbles that we couldn't recover when our guys were right there. One, late in the half, allowed them to kick the tying field goal. The other, early in the second half, set up the go ahead touchdown.

Obviously, the two pass interference penalties that negated a sack and an interception hurt on the Pitt scoring drive. Both were questionable (especial the first, actually called defensive holding), but that's football. Not going to whine about it. Also, Duke receivers couldn't pull down two TD passes that were right there -- we kicked field goals after the drops (or non-catches to be generous) by Alls and Barnes.

I've got to give Boehme props -- he was better than I thought he would be ... but his game was very much like a Sirk game.

I don't know what happens to this team going forward -- Virginia has been playing everybody tough and losing. Wake has been just terrible.

But can Cut re-energize this Duke team? They look very fragile emotionally right now.

devildeac
11-14-2015, 05:14 PM
Don't worry. Duke gets all the calls. Pathetic holding call, horrible robbery on the INT. When do things start breaking our way??


Disgraceful call.


Didn't know that Lenny Wirtz called football games too. Sheesh.

I was at the game and thought it was just me I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing and whining. Defensive holding looked like a bogus call on the other side of the field from a sack on 3rd and long. WTF? Really? Looked like offensive PI before Borders (?) made the pick in the end zone. Yet we got no PI call at the other end in their end zone in the first half. Really looked like we folded after we went down 10-17.

CDu
11-14-2015, 05:34 PM
I stand by my comments posted after last week's game. Multiple flames and an infraction later, I consider myself vindicated. Feel free to post your apologies in the forum or by PM. You know who you are.

Not sure why us losing today should be seen as any sort of vindication for comments that earned you an infraction last week.

The needle is still pointing upwards for the program. Progress is not always monotonically increasing during a rebuild. Pitt and UNC are actually good teams (Pitt's losses are to Iowa, ND, and UNC). We are not as good as them this year.

If you can only cheer for a program that is competing for national championships, that's fine. That's the easy route.

Duke had a LONG way to go as a program. We still have a ways to go. And to be honest, our long-term ceiling may be an 8-9 win team. But that is just fine with me, considering where we were when I was in school.

OZ
11-14-2015, 05:46 PM
I thought Parker, who had never started a game before, came unglued in the second half -- maybe a bit of panic at having to play from behind.Go Duke!

IMO, you lay too much of the responsibility on Parker. I thought he played pretty well. This was a total team effort. To quote Cut... "We got beat in every phase of the game." Twice we got inside the five yard line in the first half and got three points. There were enough dropped passes, missed assignments, missed tackles, poor play calls, poor coverage, poorly run pass routes, missed blocks, missed opportunities to go around. And, for those around me in the stands, it felt a lot of emotion was missing; which was a little surprising with it being senior day.
Well, at least the weather was beautiful.

freshmanjs
11-14-2015, 05:53 PM
it felt a lot of emotion was missing; which was a little surprising with it being senior day.


The team was emotionally defeated on Halloween (suffering one of the handful of most devastating losses in the history of college football). I said that night that this team would not likely ever recover. Still expect that to be the case. Not blaming them...football requires an emotional edge especially for a team that is sometimes at par or below the opponent in talent level. It will be impressive if this team wins any more games, but not surprising if they don't.

devildeac
11-14-2015, 06:04 PM
The team was emotionally defeated on Halloween (suffering one of the handful of most devastating losses in the history of college football). I said that night that this team would not likely ever recover. Still expect that to be the case. Not blaming them...football requires an emotional edge especially for a team that is sometimes at par or below the opponent in talent level. It will be impressive if this team wins any more games, but not surprising if they don't.

Yep. Lot of chatter at home, at our tent before and after the game and in the stands that 6-7 is not out of the question at this time. I don't really want to think/believe that but I'm a lot less Oz-timistic at this point in the season than I was 3 weeks ago. :(

Pghdukie
11-14-2015, 06:08 PM
D couldnt get off the field in the 3rd qtr. O couldn't move the chains to give D a breather. Time of possession has to be one-sided in 2nd half. I thought QB play was good. Not Great. But good. We just have to find a way to stop the other guys. We still have games left, so improvement is possible.

dukelifer
11-14-2015, 06:38 PM
Not sure why us losing today should be seen as any sort of vindication for comments that earned you an infraction last week.

The needle is still pointing upwards for the program. Progress is not always monotonically increasing during a rebuild. Pitt and UNC are actually good teams (Pitt's losses are to Iowa, ND, and UNC). We are not as good as them this year.

If you can only cheer for a program that is competing for national championships, that's fine. That's the easy route.

Duke had a LONG way to go as a program. We still have a ways to go. And to be honest, our long-term ceiling may be an 8-9 win team. But that is just fine with me, considering where we were when I was in school.

UNC crushing Miami right now. Duke is about where they should be after losing the players they did last season. . A win today would have been great but Pitt had a lot to play for as well. They are a good team.

OZ
11-14-2015, 07:03 PM
The team was emotionally defeated on Halloween (suffering one of the handful of most devastating losses in the history of college football). I said that night that this team would not likely ever recover. Still expect that to be the case. Not blaming them...football requires an emotional edge especially for a team that is sometimes at par or below the opponent in talent level. It will be impressive if this team wins any more games, but not surprising if they don't.

I don't disagree. We talked on the way to the game today about the effect it still had on us. We couldn't imagine what it must be like for the players.

Sixthman
11-14-2015, 07:10 PM
The team was emotionally defeated on Halloween (suffering one of the handful of most devastating losses in the history of college football). I said that night that this team would not likely ever recover. Still expect that to be the case. Not blaming them...football requires an emotional edge especially for a team that is sometimes at par or below the opponent in talent level. It will be impressive if this team wins any more games, but not surprising if they don't.

Yes, the Miami outcome had to be discouraging, but don't forget that we were emotionally flat and outplayed by Miami until we played with inspiration for the last five minutes of the game. Duke has not played as well as it is capable since the Army game. Of course we have seen better opposition, but my eye test says Pitt is no better than Northwestern. The scoreboard and statistics say Pitt dominated us in a way Northwestern did not.

Bob Green
11-14-2015, 07:20 PM
Also, Duke receivers couldn't pull down two TD passes that were right there -- we kicked field goals after the drops (or non-catches to be generous) by Alls and Barnes.

This was the key to the game in my opinion. Our receivers hold on to those two TD passes and it is a different ball game. I thought Boehme played a good game. Why the staff insists on passing the ball so much befuddles me. We never attempted to establish a running game today. Powell with six carries, Duncan with four. So much for all the preseason chatter from Coach Cutcliffe about how the team would rely more on the run than past seasons. Frustrating!

duke09hms
11-14-2015, 07:55 PM
This was the key to the game in my opinion. Our receivers hold on to those two TD passes and it is a different ball game. I thought Boehme played a good game. Why the staff insists on passing the ball so much befuddles me. We never attempted to establish a running game today. Powell with six carries, Duncan with four. So much for all the preseason chatter from Coach Cutcliffe about how the team would rely more on the run than past seasons. Frustrating!

Offensive playcalling has been extremely suspect all season. What's Kurt Roper up to these days? Is he still OC at UF? Otherwise, I'd much rather him replace Scottie. Has cost us heavily against NU, Miami, and Pitt.

Didn't we also fail to convert from 4th and goal last week? Well, wouldn't have made a difference anyway.

Henderson
11-14-2015, 08:33 PM
Offensive playcalling has been extremely suspect all season. What's Kurt Roper up to these days? Is he still OC at UF? Otherwise, I'd much rather him replace Scottie. Has cost us heavily against NU, Miami, and Pitt.

Didn't we also fail to convert from 4th and goal last week? Well, wouldn't have made a difference anyway.

Careful with the criticism of Duke football. It's a sensitive issue round these parts.

Me? I think the whole program is swell. I couldn't be happier. This is the year of a bowl win.

Henderson
11-14-2015, 08:44 PM
This was the key to the game in my opinion. Our receivers hold on to those two TD passes and it is a different ball game. I thought Boehme played a good game. Why the staff insists on passing the ball so much befuddles me. We never attempted to establish a running game today. Powell with six carries, Duncan with four. So much for all the preseason chatter from Coach Cutcliffe about how the team would rely more on the run than past seasons. Frustrating!

Bob, I don't mean to nitpick, but my uneducated guess is that Cut is trying to get defenses to stop thinking about our quarterback as a runner.

More seriously, I think criticizing Duke players and coaches is impermissible here.

Bob Green
11-14-2015, 09:22 PM
More seriously, I think criticizing Duke players and coaches is impermissible here.

Not the case at all, it is all about the manner in which you do it.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-14-2015, 09:25 PM
Bob, I don't mean to nitpick, but my uneducated guess is that Cut is trying to get defenses to stop thinking about our quarterback as a runner.

More seriously, I think criticizing Duke players and coaches is impermissible here.

I think all season long we've rather consistently criticized play calling.

I don't mind the criticism. What bothered me after last week was the defeatism reflected in comments. And people piping in this week and saying "told you so" is rather distastful and feels like folks who are more pleased with a loss.

Admittedly, the last three games have been disappointing. Also admittedly, now that basketball has started, I will probably pay less attention. But I still don't like defeatism.

Go Duke!

Henderson
11-14-2015, 09:37 PM
I stand by my comments regarding Duke football.

Edit: Trying to be civil.

weezie
11-14-2015, 09:59 PM
...But I still don't like defeatism.

Go Duke!

Men and women, I agree with the Devil Of The Mountains but the tea leaves are lined up. At least we're actually disappointed and hoping for better...that's quite a jump for this old Devil, saying, me. I don't think it's a Miami hangover, it's just the reality of a team that fights but misses.

Hell, we're fighting!

DU82
11-14-2015, 10:21 PM
Well, the third time Duke has gambled on fourth and one at the goal line and failed -- we survived the failure against BC, but the misses early against Miami and Pitt were HUGE momentum plays.


It wasn't so much that we missed on 4th and 1, it was how we missed it. Coming out of the timeout changing quarters, we went into field goal formation, but instead of Monday,
Boehme was the holder. That signaled it was a fake, and I assume Boehme was a decoy, since the ball was a direct snap, it still alerted Pitt that a fake was coming. (If I can spot it from the stands, certainly the Pitt coaches knew.) We went away once again from our strengths and tried a trick. Just play football there.

As with Miami, it gave Pitt a boost. We could have rebounded, but as mentioned, the second DPI in the end zone, on an interception, was the death blow.

Class of '94
11-14-2015, 10:37 PM
I think this team is very fragile right now. For whatever reason, Duke has struggled scoring TDs when the offense is inside the 10 yard line. Maybe part of the problem is the playcalling; but it also has a lot to do with guys not finishing and making plays in the endzone. We had chances to score TDs; and could have been up at least 21-10 on Pitt at halftime; and I think psychologically that would given this team a lift. It appears the defense gets a lift when they see the offense score a TD, which is a shame because this was supposed to be the year where Duke leaned on its defense to lead the way while having a young players in key skill positions on offense. I think our secondary has been exposed and is not as good as we all expected them to be. Maybe the injuries have played a bigger role in the demise of our defense; but it is clear that secondary is hurting the team right now.

With all of that being said, I liked what I saw of Parker. Granted he made a lot of mistakes and missed people on deep throws, he appeared to do a better job of hitting people running in stride compared to Sirk. Parker looked better imo with looking downfield and throwing the medium range passes vs checking down most of the time and throwing the short passes like Sirk does. Also, unlike Sirk, Parker was able to get Deaver involved in the offense, which begs the question: Where Deaver been all season and why wasn't he targeted more earlier in the season? Parker wasn't perfect and he telegraphed some throws in the second half and I thought focused too much on trying to get the ball to the same player (like Barnes, for example), compared to what he was doing in the first half.

Who should Duke go with at QB for the rest of the season. Do you go back to Sirk when healthy or stick with Parker and let him gain more experience? Personally, I'd prefer sticking with Sirk. To me, he appears to have a better feel at QB than Sirk. Sirk reminds me a lot of a bigger, faster B. Connette; and might be better coming into a game as the 2nd QB; and be a change of pace QB (although Parker's game is very similar to Sirk). What do you guys think?

TheDevilMadeMeDoIt
11-14-2015, 11:07 PM
So we're bowl eligible at 6-4 and we're disappointed. I admit I feel that way. That feeling just tells me how far we have come in the last few years. Today in the first half I thought we were the better team, but I knew that leaving points on the field leaves you vulnerable. The second half Pitt was the better team. What I think this team lacks is big time playmakers. As already pointed out their receivers caught and held on to some great passes. We didn't. SInce I was a history major I can't psychoanalyze the team. I personally haven't gotten over the great comeback against Miami that the refs stole from us. I don't believe the players have either. I know Cut will never use that as an excuse during the season, but I would love to know his true feelings after the season is over. As an eternal optimist (I even hoped for wins during the Franks/Rood regimes) I still hope we can win out and get a bowl victory. I love my Devil's, go Duke.

On an unrelated note, may Coach K keep coaching until I am senile and in a nursing home. As I am only two years younger than K, I hope that last request is good for at least 15 more years. The basketball game plus a bottle of wine helped me recover form the football game. As Duke fans we live in a golden era.

Sixthman
11-14-2015, 11:28 PM
I think this team is very fragile right now. For whatever reason, Duke has struggled scoring TDs when the offense is inside the 10 yard line. Maybe part of the problem is the playcalling; but it also has a lot to do with guys not finishing and making plays in the endzone. We had chances to score TDs; and could have been up at least 21-10 on Pitt at halftime; and I think psychologically that would given this team a lift. It appears the defense gets a lift when they see the offense score a TD, which is a shame because this was supposed to be the year where Duke leaned on its defense to lead the way while having a young players in key skill positions on offense. I think our secondary has been exposed and is not as good as we all expected them to be. Maybe the injuries have played a bigger role in the demise of our defense; but it is clear that secondary is hurting the team right now.

With all of that being said, I liked what I saw of Parker. Granted he made a lot of mistakes and missed people on deep throws, he appeared to do a better job of hitting people running in stride compared to Sirk. Parker looked better imo with looking downfield and throwing the medium range passes vs checking down most of the time and throwing the short passes like Sirk does. Also, unlike Sirk, Parker was able to get Deaver involved in the offense, which begs the question: Where Deaver been all season and why wasn't he targeted more earlier in the season? Parker wasn't perfect and he telegraphed some throws in the second half and I thought focused too much on trying to get the ball to the same player (like Barnes, for example), compared to what he was doing in the first half.

Who should Duke go with at QB for the rest of the season. Do you go back to Sirk when healthy or stick with Parker and let him gain more experience? Personally, I'd prefer sticking with Sirk. To me, he appears to have a better feel at QB than Sirk. Sirk reminds me a lot of a bigger, faster B. Connette; and might be better coming into a game as the 2nd QB; and be a change of pace QB (although Parker's game is very similar to Sirk). What do you guys think?

I agree with your observations about Parker. He hit receivers in stride and the drops were not just "catchable passes", they were balls that were easy catches. I think Sirk's height gives him some advantages in the pocket. Sirk is the better runner on called runs (not withstanding Boehme's long run today) but Sirk is not as effective as a scrambler and Boehme appears to be very comfortable in the pocket. I believe I prefer The long ball over thrown with some loft as we saw today as opposed to too flat or under thrown as we have seen from Sirk. Get the timing a little better and the reveiver will run under that ball for the catch

luvdahops
11-14-2015, 11:33 PM
So we're bowl eligible at 6-4 and we're disappointed. I admit I feel that way. That feeling just tells me how far we have come in the last few years. Today in the first half I thought we were the better team, but I knew that leaving points on the field leaves you vulnerable. The second half Pitt was the better team. What I think this team lacks is big time playmakers. As already pointed out their receivers caught and held on to some great passes. We didn't. SInce I was a history major I can't psychoanalyze the team. I personally haven't gotten over the great comeback against Miami that the refs stole from us. I don't believe the players have either. I know Cut will never use that as an excuse during the season, but I would love to know his true feelings after the season is over. As an eternal optimist (I even hoped for wins during the Franks/Rood regimes) I still hope we can win out and get a bowl victory. I love my Devil's, go Duke.

On an unrelated note, may Coach K keep coaching until I am senile and in a nursing home. As I am only two years younger than K, I hope that last request is good for at least 15 more years. The basketball game plus a bottle of wine helped me recover form the football game. As Duke fans we live in a golden era.

This game was very reminiscent of the Northwestern game in my view. Missed opportunities to build a solid lead in the first half, followed by a second half in which Duke was outplayed in every phase. As others have noted, Pitt is a very good team. Their 3 losses have come against #4 Notre Dame, #5 Iowa (by a fg) and by a touchdown to a UNC team that is among the hottest in the country right now. We needed to play a virtually mistake-free game today to win, and obviously that was not the case. Still, one could argue that the difference really came down to their receivers making plays through good coverage, while ours did not. The Barnes drop came at an especially critical juncture in the 3rd quarter. I did like much of what I saw from Boehme, and Anthony Nash showed some real flashes, too.

Pitt under Pat Narduzzi will likely be a program to reckon with for some time. He is the real deal, and has them playing a more physical and disciplined brand of football. With a strong local recruiting base and reach into Ohio and New Jersey, Pitt rarely lacks for talent. Having Syracuse as their permanent opponent in the Atlantic is advantageous as well.

Bob Green
11-15-2015, 08:29 AM
Missed opportunities to build a solid lead in the first half, followed by a second half in which Duke was outplayed in every phase.

Missed opportunities is an accurate assessment of the game. The forced fumbles we did not recover plus dropped TD passes. The last point I desire to add is the lack of a pass rush. Pitt's quarterback had all day to stand in the pocket and pick our secondary apart.

IsInTheDetails
11-15-2015, 09:44 AM
There has been a fair bit of short-term negativity the past couple weeks, coupled with a healthy amount of long-term excitement. That all seems right to me, and I think any good fan should be able to couple criticism with optimism --- it's inherent to being a fan of one program over the long haul.

I'm as disappointed as anyone by the results the past three weeks, but even in these ugly-ish losses we've looked nothing like the teams I watched in the late 90's and early 00's. The offense? Back then, we'd have been happy to get stuffed on the goal line, since we rarely even moved that far down the field. The defense? Heck, in those dark days, opponents didn't even need to bring their offensive playbook to the game. They could just run through our awful tackling up the middle, time and time again. We now have an offense that routinely moves the ball with efficiency and a defense that generally tackles well and frequently makes big stops.

And what about the eye test? We no longer look undersized and underfast versus every conference opponent. Teams have to prepare, have to compete, to beat us. They have to open up the playbook and get creative. They have to keep starters on the field. They sometimes need a bit of luck/help from a bounce or a penalty or lack thereof. And sometimes they beat us, but it's no longer a gimme. It's not impossible for me to imagine Duke beating Pitt handily yesterday had we completed just a couple more plays early on.

I think we're seeing the 'one step back' that prognosticators tagged on us before the season. Others have assessed well the X's and O's element contributing to that step back --- confounding offensive play calling, lack of playmaking in the receiving corps, poor downfield technique among the secondary, inability to create turnovers, inability to generate pressure on the QB without bringing the house. All of those things, and sometimes others.

Let's not forget, though, that even in the successes of recent years, our team has always had missing elements on the field, often several, but we found ways to overcome. We played at a level that clearly exceeded raw talent. We benefited from a special version of leadership on the field - guys playing with an edge, an underdog chip on their shoulder, always rallying the squad toward a bigger cause. Duke was fortunate to have several such leaders to carry that torch (Crowder, Anunike, Cockrell, Vernon, Boone, the entire offensive line for a while, etc.), but those guys are gone. Remember how much pride we took in being a fourth-quarter team? A surprise loss on opponents' homecoming night? Doing something unprecedented? Hell yes, Duke Football? I, for one, haven't seen that this year.

Now our talent level is up and continues to improve, and very few of our players have any direct recollection of missing a bowl game. We lack that inherent 'edge' of being an underdog, and I think our team leadership has yet to make the transition. From what I can see from the outside, we have upstanding, well-spoken men in the locker room. We have a couple guys that play with real verve on the field - Cash and Duncan especially come to mind - perhaps in more of an individualistic way. But who is the next generation of leadership around whom the team rallies? That carries the program to its next plateau? That makes everyone else play at the top end of their range?

I suspect the answer is already on the roster amongst the talented freshmen (true and redshirt) - guys like Bere, Humphreys, Rahming, McDuffie, Carmichael. When we find some of those players who can bring their on-field and locker-room leadership up to the level of their (and the team's) undeniable talent, I think we'll see momentum point up again. I'd put my money on Coach Cut to both find that mix of talent and leadership. And I'd put my money on an institution like Duke to cultivate it.

The long-term trend is still something to savor, folks. We have a program now. Two steps forward. . .

Devilwin
11-15-2015, 12:09 PM
Ok, let's just win the last two and win the bowl game. UVA appears a toss up, Wake should be very beatable.

Bob Green
11-15-2015, 12:38 PM
Why the staff insists on passing the ball so much befuddles me. We never attempted to establish a running game today. Powell with six carries, Duncan with four. So much for all the preseason chatter from Coach Cutcliffe about how the team would rely more on the run than past seasons. Frustrating!

Calling Jim Sumner and Olympic Fan: can either of you provide insight into why we do not emphasize the running game more?

jimsumner
11-15-2015, 03:34 PM
Calling Jim Sumner and Olympic Fan: can either of you provide insight into why we do not emphasize the running game more?

Darned if I know. After the Carolina game and with an inexperienced QB, I expected Duncan to get about 15-20 touches.

I guess the coaches thought they saw something on film that they thought they could exploit. And if a couple of drops suddenly morph into TD catches, maybe we're having a different discussion.

But, yes, I'm a bit on the baffled side.

Bob Green
11-15-2015, 04:54 PM
But, yes, I'm a bit on the baffled side.

Thanks! I value your opinion. Hopefully we run Duncan 15 times next week against Virginia. I'll be in the stands cheering as hard as I can as that is all I can do.

arnie
11-15-2015, 08:04 PM
Thanks! I value your opinion. Hopefully we run Duncan 15 times next week against Virginia. I'll be in the stands cheering as hard as I can as that is all I can do.

Totally agree; incidentally UVA opened as 2.5 pt favorite.

Scorp4me
11-15-2015, 08:17 PM
I remember how "boring" Kurt Ropers play calling was for a while. Then with talent suddenly our Offensive Coordinator became good enough to be recruited away from us. I'd like to think it's the same here, but in the end I just don't. It's not that the play calling is boring, it's just inconsistent and quite frankly baffling sometimes. But here's to hoping things change as the players on the field gain experience.

oldnavy
11-16-2015, 07:49 AM
Thanks! I value your opinion. Hopefully we run Duncan 15 times next week against Virginia. I'll be in the stands cheering as hard as I can as that is all I can do.

I look squarely at Scottie Montgomery. Play call all year has been suspect (that is as kind as I can be). Our offense is very bland and predictable. When we played Army and NCCU and other lesser teams it didn't matter. But we simply cannot continue running the same 5 or so plays over and over again and expect different results.

I cannot remember one offensive misdirection play this year or counter play. Some one correct me if I'm wrong, but when you play aggressive defensive's that over pursue you have to mix it up. Plus we are pretty pitiful in the red zone.

Maybe Scottie has hit the "Peter Principle" and is just not up to it, but that's Coach Cut's call.

The defense seems to have become ultra conservative of late as well. I cannot for the life of me understand why we would continue to leave a freshman corner in man on man coverage with no top cover time after time (not going to call the kid out by name, but he isn't a shut down corner yet). Jeremy Cash has not been the player he was during the first six or so games, and it looks like he is not pressuring the QB as much. Jeremy's call or the defensive plan? Don't know, but it is not the same D we saw early on when Cash was all over the place wreaking havoc.

I am disappointed only because I believe we not only could have won the Northwestern Game, the Pitt Game, and the Miami game, but that we SHOULD have won those games.

I am not turning into a spoiled fan, am I am EXTREMELY grateful for where the FB program is now as compared to where we came from.

I just hope that we finish out strong by taking a long look at our schemes and play calling and open things up a bit.

I trust Cut to do that, if not this year, then at least over the off season.

jimsumner
11-16-2015, 11:53 AM
I freely confess that Duke's propensity for trying to ram the ball down the throat inside the five is a source of some frustration for me.

It's almost like it's a macho thing. Only wusses throw the ball from the three.

It failed against BC (1st and goal from the one, no points), VT (OT), Miami, UNC and Pitt. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But if it is broke, perhaps time to mix it up a bit.

I look at the way Pitt used Tyler Boyd Saturday. Best wide receiver in the ACC and he gets eight carries and averages 10 yards per carry on end-arounds.

That's a creative way to use your resources. And no, Duke doesn't have a WR with Boyd's ability. But there have to be more imaginative ways to utilize the speed Duke does have.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-16-2015, 11:54 AM
I am not turning into a spoiled fan, am I am EXTREMELY grateful for where the FB program is now as compared to where we came from.

I just hope that we finish out strong by taking a long look at our schemes and play calling and open things up a bit.

I trust Cut to do that, if not this year, then at least over the off season.

I agree with you, our play calling has left me with lots of questions. But yes, the general disappointment of the season is directly related to how far we have come.

If you went back five years and posted that Duke football had a good shot at going to a decent bowl and winning nine games, but that the fan base would be frustrated and disappointed, most here would have thought you insane.

Cut is doing great things, and one of the results of those great things is much higher expectations. I for one love the shift and I look forward to Duke achieving success as determined by our new higher standards.

luvdahops
11-16-2015, 12:15 PM
I freely confess that Duke's propensity for trying to ram the ball down the throat inside the five is a source of some frustration for me.

It's almost like it's a macho thing. Only wusses throw the ball from the three.

It failed against BC (1st and goal from the one, no points), VT (OT), Miami, UNC and Pitt. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But if it is broke, perhaps time to mix it up a bit.

I look at the way Pitt used Tyler Boyd Saturday. Best wide receiver in the ACC and he gets eight carries and averages 10 yards per carry on end-arounds.

That's a creative way to use your resources. And no, Duke doesn't have a WR with Boyd's ability. But there have to be more imaginative ways to utilize the speed Duke does have.

I could not agree more. Given the dual threat abilities of Sirk and Boehme, I am baffled why we don't call more bootlegs or option-type plays (jump pass anyone?) inside the 5. And the lack of imagination in play calling in general has been glaring this year. The prior two years, we were consistently able to keep defenses - including some very good ones - off balance. As many others have noted, that has certainly not been the case this year. We don't have anyone with Jamison Crowder's overall skill set, but we have a lot of speed that is not being utilized.

Richard Berg
11-16-2015, 12:53 PM
On the flip side, I don't see why anyone called our 4th-and-1 play a "fake FG". We lined up in a funky formation: front 5 on one hash, kicker on the opposite hash, Boehme lined up as the holder (instead of Monday), and Deaver (instead of Skura) holding the ball between his legs. Everyone knew it was a trick play, just a question of what the trick would be.

Unfortunately the jump pass didn't fool anyone -- Deaver was the only blue jersey in the end zone, surrounded by about 6 Panther defenders.

Olympic Fan
11-16-2015, 01:02 PM
On the flip side, I don't see why anyone called our 4th-and-1 play a "fake FG". We lined up in a funky formation: front 5 on one hash, kicker on the opposite hash, Boehme lined up as the holder (instead of Monday), and Deaver (instead of Skura) holding the ball between his legs. Everyone knew it was a trick play, just a question of what the trick would be.

Unfortunately the jump pass didn't fool anyone -- Deaver was the only blue jersey in the end zone, surrounded by about 6 Panther defenders.

It's a formation that a number of teams use on every extra point kick -- Oregon, North Carolina ... Virginia used it to score a two-point conversion on us up in Charlottesville two years ago. Those teams line up that way, then if the defense reacts, they shift back to a normal formation. If the defense doesn't, they do what Duke did against Pitt -- shovel pass over and try to score a two-point conversion.

I thought it raised a huge red flag because Duke DOESN'T use that formation.

And it was not an extra point, it was a field goal. I think calling it a fake field goal is fair -- Martin was there with a holder (Boehme instead of Monday, his usual holder -- another red flag).

And I don't think the scheme was so bad -- only the execution -- although there were a lot of Pitt defenders in the end zone, Deaver was actually wide open -- Pierre merely threw the ball behind him. Deaver still might have reacted and caught the ball, but the bad throw gave a Pitt defender who was beaten a chance to recover and tip it away.

jimsumner
11-16-2015, 03:23 PM
It's a formation that a number of teams use on every extra point kick -- Oregon, North Carolina ... Virginia used it to score a two-point conversion on us up in Charlottesville two years ago. Those teams line up that way, then if the defense reacts, they shift back to a normal formation. If the defense doesn't, they do what Duke did against Pitt -- shovel pass over and try to score a two-point conversion.

I thought it raised a huge red flag because Duke DOESN'T use that formation.

And it was not an extra point, it was a field goal. I think calling it a fake field goal is fair -- Martin was there with a holder (Boehme instead of Monday, his usual holder -- another red flag).

And I don't think the scheme was so bad -- only the execution -- although there were a lot of Pitt defenders in the end zone, Deaver was actually wide open -- Pierre merely threw the ball behind him. Deaver still might have reacted and caught the ball, but the bad throw gave a Pitt defender who was beaten a chance to recover and tip it away.

I'd call it a fake field goal. But I think nomenclature is fairly unimportant.

What is important, IMO, is that it didn't fool anyone. Fake field goals rarely work without a strong element of deception and surprise As soon as I saw the formation and personnel, I knew it was a fake. Took about a half-second.

If I could figure it out from the press box, I'm pretty sure the Pitt coaches who get paid big bucks to figure out this sort of thing figured it out and quickly communicated that information to the Pitt guys on the field. Nobody was fooled. Nobody.

Take the three points. And, yes I said that before they came on the field and I said it against Miami and BC and probably a time or two when Duke converted for a TD.

Cut said he's done his research and the numbers support going for it on 4th and goal from the one. And in the aggregate, I'm sure they do. But at some point you have to consider the possibility that maybe the numbers don't support going for it for this particular team.

And the momentum bump gained by a team that gets that stop is enormous.

Former ECU coach Steve Logan is fond of saying that a field goal isn't three points gained, its four points lost. But if you've had three shots at the end zone and you're still not there, if you beat your head against a brick wall three times without making a dent, maybe you need to pick the low-hanging fruit.

Class of '94
11-16-2015, 03:25 PM
Many of us have talked about (and complained in my case) about the offensive problems shown especially over the last 3 games. As much as I hate to admit, Duke only has wins currently against losing teams this season; and winless against teams with winning records. This is consistent with Henderson's complaints about the progression or our program. While Duke has come a long way, there is still a ways to go and Duke needs to win these last 2 games and the bowl game this season to keep the program moving forward on upward slant towards national relevance. As much as hate to admit, Carolina's run and recent dominance of teams is given them the national cred that we haven't received yet. God help us if they actually go to the ACC championship game and beat Clemson and/or a high profile team in their bowl game. We will never hear the end of it.

All of that being said, Duke's main problems right now imo are not necessarily the offense but rather the defense. The defense is really, really bad right now; and unless that changes, the best this team may achieve the rest of the season is another 1-2 wins at best. Miami shouldn't have been in the game if the defense played better. And no matter how many dropped passes there were in the UNC and Pitt games, we weren't going to win letting a team score 60+ and 30+ pts, respectively. The team is capable on defense and our secondary was supposed to be a strength of ours; but they've been exposed and guys have tighten up and truly get better. For whatever reason, the defense has uncharacteristically been strong in the first half but noticeably weakens in the second half in all of their games (except for Central and Army). That has to be addressed.

killerleft
11-16-2015, 04:08 PM
Many of us have talked about (and complained in my case) about the offensive problems shown especially over the last 3 games. As much as I hate to admit, Duke only has wins currently against losing teams this season; and winless against teams with winning records. This is consistent with Henderson's complaints about the progression or our program. While Duke has come a long way, there is still a ways to go and Duke needs to win these last 2 games and the bowl game this season to keep the program moving forward on upward slant towards national relevance. As much as hate to admit, Carolina's run and recent dominance of teams is given them the national cred that we haven't received yet. God help us if they actually go to the ACC championship game and beat Clemson and/or a high profile team in their bowl game. We will never hear the end of it.

All of that being said, Duke's main problems right now imo are not necessarily the offense but rather the defense. The defense is really, really bad right now; and unless that changes, the best this team may achieve the rest of the season is another 1-2 wins at best. Miami shouldn't have been in the game if the defense played better. And no matter how many dropped passes there were in the UNC and Pitt games, we weren't going to win letting a team score 60+ and 30+ pts, respectively. The team is capable on defense and our secondary was supposed to be a strength of ours; but they've been exposed and guys have tighten up and truly get better. For whatever reason, the defense has uncharacteristically been strong in the first half but noticeably weakens in the second half in all of their games (except for Central and Army). That has to be addressed.

Re: the bolded above, I suspect that the reason for our bad second half defense is that the players are tiring. Usually this problem stems from not having a sufficient number of quality players available to spell the starters without a noticeable talent drop-off. This may also be the reason Jeremy Cash has not been so productive lately. I'm not an expert, but it seems he is being used more to 'shore up' the defensive lapses, and can only occasionally be called on to do his usual 'here-I-am-whoops-no-I'm-there' disruptions that we've loved so well.

Class of '94
11-16-2015, 04:36 PM
Re: the bolded above, I suspect that the reason for our bad second half defense is that the players are tiring. Usually this problem stems from not having a sufficient number of quality players available to spell the starters without a noticeable talent drop-off. This may also be the reason Jeremy Cash has not been so productive lately. I'm not an expert, but it seems he is being used more to 'shore up' the defensive lapses, and can only occasionally be called on to do his usual 'here-I-am-whoops-no-I'm-there' disruptions that we've loved so well.

I hear you; but isn't this team supposed to have more depth across the board than any of the past teams? I remember Cut praising past Duke defenses of previous teams for their conditioning and ability to get stronger as the game goes on, especially in the 4th quarter. This defense does not seem to be as strong, conditioning wise as previous teams. I guess I'm wondering if this defense is as physically tough as teams of the more recent past. Am I wrong about that? Maybe injuries have played a greater role in the lack of quality depth that you might be referring to.

jimsumner
11-16-2015, 05:35 PM
Duke had the ball for about eight minutes in the second half of the Pitt game.

That has to account for some of the fatigue issues. The offense has to be able to sustain drives in order to give the defense some time to rest. p

Then again, the defense can always get off the field by getting some stops of their own.

So the blame can be spread around.

Against Pitt, Duke forced a lot of third and longs and then couldn't finish it off. A couple of really inopportune penalties hurt big time.

There's no question Duke's defense is better now than it was a few years back. Tackling especially is markedly improved.

But it seems to me that Duke's D has come up short in two crucial areas. Duke doesn't force a lot of turnovers and Duke cannot pressure the quarterback without blitzing and not always when they do blitz.

That puts the defense in the position of relying on the opposing team to make mistakes. If they don't make mistakes, it can get hairy. That's happened a bunch in the last few weeks.

devildeac
11-16-2015, 06:02 PM
Duke had the ball for about eight minutes in the second half of the Pitt game.

That has to account for some of the fatigue issues. The offense has to be able to sustain drives in order to give the defense some time to rest. p

Then again, the defense can always get off the field by getting some stops of their own.

So the blame can be spread around.

Against Pitt, Duke forced a lot of third and longs and then couldn't finish it off. A couple of really inopportune penalties hurt big time.

There's no question Duke's defense is better now than it was a few years back. Tackling especially is markedly improved.

But it seems to me that Duke's D has come up short in two crucial areas. Duke doesn't force a lot of turnovers and Duke cannot pressure the quarterback without blitzing and not always when they do blitz.

That puts the defense in the position of relying on the opposing team to make mistakes. If they don't make mistakes, it can get hairy. That's happened a bunch in the last few weeks.

Three serious queries (or six if you count each area as two questions:o) from me (yea, that's a stretch but I need educating:o):

1. How many guys is Cut using at the DT positions now and how is the quality of that depth?

2. Same two-pronged inquiry at the DE spot.

3. Ditto for the LB corps.

Thanks.

Bob Green
11-16-2015, 06:28 PM
DT: Six. Carlos Wray, A.J. Wolf, Mike Ramsay, Brandon Boyce, Edgar Cerenord, Quavan Furgeson. All but Wray return next year so we are very solid at DT. We have another freshman, Zach Morris, who is out for the year with a knee injury.
DE: Five. Kyler Brown, Deion Williams, Britton Grier, Marquies Price, Allen Jackson. Three of five are seniors. We have a couple more true freshmen who have not played. This position will be very young in 2016.
LB: Five. Dwayne Norman, Zavier Carmichael, Tinashe Bere, Ben Humphreys, Chris Holmes. Norman is the only senior. Lots of returning experience and incoming talent at LB so we should be solid moving forward.

I'm sure I forgot someone. McDonald at linebacker shows up in the participation report but I'm not sure if he is actually seeing snaps at LB or just playing on special teams.

jimsumner
11-16-2015, 06:35 PM
Three serious queries (or six if you count each area as two questions:o) from me (yea, that's a stretch but I need educating:o):

1. How many guys is Cut using at the DT positions now and how is the quality of that depth?

2. Same two-pronged inquiry at the DE spot.

3. Ditto for the LB corps.

Thanks.

Duke is rotating a bunch of guys at DT. No problem there.

LB? Norman, Carmichael, Bere and Humphries are the four guys getting most of the snaps; Chris Holmes has been hurt and hasn't played much when healthy. Norman is the only senior and Duke has some quality in the pipeline.

If you go back to August or so, the biggest question mark in my mind was DE and those questions have been answered, largely in the negative. I hope this doesn't come across as overly harsh but I think it's fair to say that DE is the one position in which Duke simply isn't even ACC-average.

Four of the five guys playing at DE are converted linebackers and Duke just isn't very big at that position. Deion Williams is 230 pounds. There are ACC QBs bigger than that.

You can get by at 230 if you have elite athleticism. That isn't the case with Williams, unfortunately. Or any of Duke's DEs.

True freshman Marquies Price is a true DE. At 6-6, 240, he could get bigger, maybe as much as 260, without losing any speed. He could be a real stud and somebody to build around.

But who else joins him next year? Williams, Kyler Brown and Britton Grier are graduating. Converted LB Dominic McDonald hasn't shown much and neither has Allan Jackson, who will be back as a fifth-year senior next season.

Duke is redshirting two true freshmen DEs this season, Trevon McSwain and Twazanga Mugala. McSwain is 6-6, 265, so like Price he has some potential to give Duke the kind of quality size it hasn't had at that position since Kenny Anunike.

But a Price, McSwain, Mugala rotation next season would be very, very young, which likely explains Jackson being invited back. Taariq Shabazz has chronic knee problems and may never play again.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Duke move Brendon Boyce from DT to DE in the spring. He has played as a true freshman this season. He's listed as 6-0, 255, but I suspect he's closer to 5-10. He's pretty mobile for a DT and at his height, I can't see him at 290 or so without losing that quickness.

Moving Boyce to DE and losing senior Carlos Wray would still leave Duke with A.J. Wolf, Mike Ramsay, Edgar Cerenord and Quaven Ferguson at DT and Duke is redshirting 295-pound freshman Alfred Morris after knee surgery.

Maybe more than you wanted to know. But Duke had a couple of years without bringing in much at the DE position and Shabazz's injury complicated matters. So, that's a position of concern this season and likely next season until Price, McSwain and Mugala get on the right side of the learning curve.

devildeac
11-16-2015, 06:43 PM
Duke is rotating a bunch of guys at DT. No problem there.

LB? Norman, Carmichael, Bere and Humphries are the four guys getting most of the snaps; Chris Holmes has been hurt and hasn't played much when healthy. Norman is the only senior and Duke has some quality in the pipeline.

If you go back to August or so, the biggest question mark in my mind was DE and those questions have been answered, largely in the negative. I hope this doesn't come across as overly harsh but I think it's fair to say that DE is the one position in which Duke simply isn't even ACC-average.

Four of the five guys playing at DE are converted linebackers and Duke just isn't very big at that position. Deion Williams is 230 pounds. There are ACC QBs bigger than that.

You can get by at 230 if you have elite athleticism. That isn't the case with Williams, unfortunately. Or any of Duke's DEs.

True freshman Marquies Price is a true DE. At 6-6, 240, he could get bigger, maybe as much as 260, without losing any speed. He could be a real stud and somebody to build around.

But who else joins him next year? Williams, Kyler Brown and Britton Grier are graduating. Converted LB Dominic McDonald hasn't shown much and neither has Allan Jackson, who will be back as a fifth-year senior next season.

Duke is redshirting two true freshmen DEs this season, Trevon McSwain and Twazanga Mugala. McSwain is 6-6, 265, so like Price he has some potential to give Duke the kind of quality size it hasn't had at that position since Kenny Anunike.

But a Price, McSwain, Mugala rotation next season would be very, very young, which likely explains Jackson being invited back. Taariq Shabazz has chronic knee problems and may never play again.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Duke move Brendon Boyce from DT to DE in the spring. He has played as a true freshman this season. He's listed as 6-0, 255, but I suspect he's closer to 5-10. He's pretty mobile for a DT and at his height, I can't see him at 290 or so without losing that quickness.

Moving Boyce to DE and losing senior Carlos Wray would still leave Duke with A.J. Wolf, Mike Ramsay, Edgar Cerenord and Quaven Ferguson at DT and Duke is redshirting 295-pound freshman Alfred Morris after knee surgery.

Maybe more than you wanted to know. But Duke had a couple of years without bringing in much at the DE position and Shabazz's injury complicated matters. So, that's a position of concern this season and likely next season until Price, McSwain and Mugala get on the right side of the learning curve.

Great info and you even answered a couple follow-up questions I was thinking of, too. Thanks to you and Bob for the info. Very, very helpful.

Olympic Fan
11-16-2015, 06:46 PM
Three serious queries (or six if you count each area as two questions:o) from me (yea, that's a stretch but I need educating:o):

1. How many guys is Cut using at the DT positions now and how is the quality of that depth?

2. Same two-pronged inquiry at the DE spot.

3. Ditto for the LB corps.

Thanks.

1. Cut is using six tackles (for two positions) -- Wray and Wolf have played really well. Ramsey is starting to come on as a redshirt junior. And Boyce is an exceptional true freshman. Two redshirt freshmen -- Ferguson and Cerenord -- have great size and potential, but are still where Ramsey was last year. So depth is really not an issue at tackle -- although it would be great if Duke had a DT that could rush the passer. BTW: Wray is the only senior, so we should still be plenty deep at DT next season -- I expect Ramsey and the three freshmen to all be much better.

2. Defensive end is a bigger problem. Four guys have played a lot (again, at two positions). Kyler Brown has been very good, when healthy. Deon Williams has been solid and Britton Grier has been okay. True freshman Marquies Price is in the rotation and has played well at times. Dominic McDonald and Allen Jackson have played a little, but are not really part of the rotation. Brown's injury has really hurt the depth of the rotation. If he plays, we're two deep ... if not, we have to force-feed McDonald or Jackson in at times and right now, they are a cut below the others. On the whole, our ends have been very good against the run, but none have generated any kind of pass rush -- that really hurts. BTW: Graduation hits hard here -- Brown, Grier and Williams are all seniors. That leaves Price as the only rotation guy returning. Cut has two promising freshmen redshirting -- McSwain and Mugala -- plus he might move some LBs down to DE as he's done in the past. Believe me, nothing could help Duke's program more than finding a big-time pass-rushing DE.

3. Four guys have rotated at LB. Dwayne Norman has been surprisingly good and Tinashe Bere has been very strong against the run. Xavier Carmichael has more speed and is a better cover guy. Freshman Ben Humphreys is also very mobile and is going to be very good. Interesting that Cut has rotated Bere and Carmichaekl a lot, depending on the opponent. Is four LBs enough for two spots? I don't know. I do know that three of them are back next year all except Norman) and Cut has some big-time recruits at the position and at least one good prospect that he's redshirting.

I really don't know how big a problem that depth up front has been. It seems to be more of an issue in the secondary, where our safeties/corners rarely come out.

I didn't realize until lately how big a loss it was when Bryon Fields was hurt. His absence has left us with one good cover corner -- Breon Borders. But opponents have really picked on our other corner and our safeties in coverage. The good news is that Fields should be back next year (hope he recovers fully) and Borders returns. Plus, I think McDuffie will be very good in time ... remember how much Ross Cockrell progressed from freshman to sophomore, then to junior year.

Long-term, my biggest concern is defensive end -- Cut still has a few offers out there, but he really needs to hit the big-time in recruiting that position.

devildeac
11-16-2015, 08:38 PM
1. Cut is using six tackles (for two positions) -- Wray and Wolf have played really well. Ramsey is starting to come on as a redshirt junior. And Boyce is an exceptional true freshman. Two redshirt freshmen -- Ferguson and Cerenord -- have great size and potential, but are still where Ramsey was last year. So depth is really not an issue at tackle -- although it would be great if Duke had a DT that could rush the passer. BTW: Wray is the only senior, so we should still be plenty deep at DT next season -- I expect Ramsey and the three freshmen to all be much better.

2. Defensive end is a bigger problem. Four guys have played a lot (again, at two positions). Kyler Brown has been very good, when healthy. Deon Williams has been solid and Britton Grier has been okay. True freshman Marquies Price is in the rotation and has played well at times. Dominic McDonald and Allen Jackson have played a little, but are not really part of the rotation. Brown's injury has really hurt the depth of the rotation. If he plays, we're two deep ... if not, we have to force-feed McDonald or Jackson in at times and right now, they are a cut below the others. On the whole, our ends have been very good against the run, but none have generated any kind of pass rush -- that really hurts. BTW: Graduation hits hard here -- Brown, Grier and Williams are all seniors. That leaves Price as the only rotation guy returning. Cut has two promising freshmen redshirting -- McSwain and Mugala -- plus he might move some LBs down to DE as he's done in the past. Believe me, nothing could help Duke's program more than finding a big-time pass-rushing DE.

3. Four guys have rotated at LB. Dwayne Norman has been surprisingly good and Tinashe Bere has been very strong against the run. Xavier Carmichael has more speed and is a better cover guy. Freshman Ben Humphreys is also very mobile and is going to be very good. Interesting that Cut has rotated Bere and Carmichaekl a lot, depending on the opponent. Is four LBs enough for two spots? I don't know. I do know that three of them are back next year all except Norman) and Cut has some big-time recruits at the position and at least one good prospect that he's redshirting.

I really don't know how big a problem that depth up front has been. It seems to be more of an issue in the secondary, where our safeties/corners rarely come out.

I didn't realize until lately how big a loss it was when Bryon Fields was hurt. His absence has left us with one good cover corner -- Breon Borders. But opponents have really picked on our other corner and our safeties in coverage. The good news is that Fields should be back next year (hope he recovers fully) and Borders returns. Plus, I think McDuffie will be very good in time ... remember how much Ross Cockrell progressed from freshman to sophomore, then to junior year.

Long-term, my biggest concern is defensive end -- Cut still has a few offers out there, but he really needs to hit the big-time in recruiting that position.

Man, you, Jim and Bob have been quite helpful, talking about quality, depth and the future. Thanks for taking the extra time to explain.

devilirium
11-16-2015, 08:57 PM
IMO, you lay too much of the responsibility on Parker. I thought he played pretty well. This was a total team effort. To quote Cut... "We got beat in every phase of the game." Twice we got inside the five yard line in the first half and got three points. There were enough dropped passes, missed assignments, missed tackles, poor play calls, poor coverage, poorly run pass routes, missed blocks, missed opportunities to go around. And, for those around me in the stands, it felt a lot of emotion was missing; which was a little surprising with it being senior day.Well, at least the weather was beautiful.


Some great discussion by Jim and Olympic Fan on the encouraging depth and development of the team, but the bolded sentence stood out to me. I've seen Wallace Wade near vacant, and there not be emotion, but the crowd on Saturday was actually fairly decent for a last game Wade crowd. However, there was ZERO and I mean ZERO buzz when the team ran out of the tunnel. Golf gallery atmosphere. It wasn't the weather, it wasn't the time of the game, etc.

It almost seemed like the Duke crowd was saying (and this was typical of the pre Cutcliffe crowd) "You need to show us something. You lost by 35 to UNC and allowed 66" that sorta pervaded the crowd. Really unfair to the kids and the staff, but these are the times that we live in. And it wasn't just me, a lot of people were murmuring that the crowd was not enthused and seemed to show up out of obligation rather than enjoyment. I wasn't the only one who noticed it. Trust me. But it seemed to be a harbinger of things to come. The pacemaker crowd in Sect 26 and the others did get riled up for for Boehme's run, but that was it.

devildeac
11-16-2015, 10:11 PM
Sean Obi is 6-9 and 270. How's his tackling ability?

(kidding, kidding)

oldnavy
11-17-2015, 07:31 AM
Any thought about changing schemes? Could we go with a 3-4 defensive package if the DE position is weak?

grad_devil
11-17-2015, 12:40 PM
Whoa.

Didn't see this coming:

https://twitter.com/laurakeeley/status/666671685060399106

5712:mad: