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kaufmjo
11-07-2015, 04:30 PM
Tough loss today but probably not the time to talk about UNC scandals. I'm sure if we had won none of this would have been mentioned and it would be a sweet victory after a difficult loss last week. I expect more from DBR.

cspan37421
11-07-2015, 04:41 PM
Tough loss today but probably not the time to talk about UNC scandals. I'm sure if we had won none of this would have been mentioned and it would be a sweet victory after a difficult loss last week. I expect more from DBR.

I only partially agree. Too much emphasis on it in the article, but the question remains whether, in the last couple decades or even now, it has been a fair and level playing field between the schools. The evidence suggests it has not been, and may still not be, so we can take some consolation in that, if we choose. But it doesn't require quite so much space, nor does it explain how we can do comparatively better in another revenue sport while a number of others apparently still cheat.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-07-2015, 04:54 PM
There is a part of me which concurs with what you've said. This aspect of reasoning has been my primary way of coping with and reacting to the investigations, allegations, vandalism and all the rest of it. As a citizen of the State of North Carolina, I've witnessed the endless pouring of billions of dollars (public and private) down a dysfunctional black hole of denial.

It's not just the outcome of the game which now makes me concur with JD King's post on the front page. It's the way it was done... by players who goaded and taunted at every opportunity not unlike young adolescents out of control in bullying classmates who follow the rules, do their homework and obey the teachers. It's the way no one took responsibility for the vandalism last year and, in fact, made public statements suggesting some sort of small misdeed on the part of our coaches or players nullified the outrageous behavior discovered while some of their coaches were still on our campus.

This rivalry was fun, entertaining and challenging when we were equals. A systemic change has occurred. It feels like a battle of good and evil, the sort of contest that can never be won by those who play fair, follow the rules and expect the players to be college students.

I'm not bitter. I am deeply disappointed.

Class of '94
11-07-2015, 04:56 PM
I only partially agree. Too much emphasis on it in the article, but the question remains whether, in the last couple decades or even now, it has been a fair and level playing field between the schools. The evidence suggests it has not been, and may still not be, so we can take some consolation in that, if we choose. But it doesn't require quite so much space, nor does it explain how we can do comparatively better in another revenue sport while a number of otheparently still cheat.

We can't rely on the scandal or perceived unfair advantages to explain our losses. Whether it's a unfair playing field or not, it simply doesn't matter because we've shown we can beat Carolina (prior to this game, we beat them 2 out of the last 3 games). This is a different Duke program; and this program can beat Carolina no matter what perceived unfair advantages they have. We have the talent; and for whatever reason, we've come out flat against this team for the last 2 seasons. IMO, that's more disconcerting; and something the coaching staff needs to figure out and correct.

Wander
11-07-2015, 05:09 PM
Every year there's a few front page articles like this which are super lame. Nothing much to do about it. The two paragraphs in a football post devoted to complaining about PDF files was especially bizarre though...

tteettimes
11-07-2015, 05:15 PM
That's what it is,,,,,,to field a team that withers as this is EMBARASSING,!

richardjackson199
11-07-2015, 05:25 PM
We can't rely on the scandal or perceived unfair advantages to explain our losses. Whether it's a unfair playing field or not, it simply doesn't matter because we've shown we can beat Carolina (prior to this game, we beat them 2 out of the last 3 games). This is a different Duke program; and this program can beat Carolina no matter what perceived unfair advantages they have. We have the talent; and for whatever reason, we've come out flat against this team for the last 2 seasons. IMO, that's more disconcerting; and something the coaching staff needs to figure out and correct.

I agree. Today's humiliating trip to the woodshed courtesy of our rivals had nothing to do with paper classes. I will always love beating Carolina and I'll always really hate losing to them, especially like this. Let's forget the sour grapes, excuses, rationalization, and respond to this loss like Duke does, by doing everything it takes to win. Let's not forget...
all that followed after an embarrassing blowout loss in the 1983 ACC tournament — a loss that would lead a group of boosters to try to have Coach K fired. At the dinner afterward, a member of the Duke staff raised a glass and said, “Here’s to forgetting tonight.” “No,” Coach K said, “here’s to never forgetting tonight.”

Congrats UNC. Enjoy it while you can. Dark clouds are on the horizon for your program. But we'll leave that to your legal team and PR firm to figure out. We'll be preparing to win, because winning is what we do. We'll see you on the field next time. And things will go differently.

kcduke75
11-07-2015, 05:28 PM
That's what it is,,,,,,to field a team that withers as this is EMBARASSING,!

(sic)

Maybe your seat on the bandwagon needs to get cold.

Sorry they don't live up to your expectations.

Carolina has excellent talent and unfortunately improved coaching.

Next play.

devildeac
11-07-2015, 05:33 PM
Probably my only objection to it is the timing/sour grape-ishness appearance that it gives. Vindication/justification/judgment/punishment will arrive (hopefully) next spring and the NCAA will take the Wainstein report, their ~59 page NOA along with ~730 pages of supporting evidence and issue sanctions/punishments/bans/fines that far, far exceed those of SMU and Syracuse and make all the diversions, deceptions, denials, lying (yea, roy and fedora, I'm looking at you especially), cheating, obfuscation, money/time-wasting that they've done over the last couple decades (or more) a complete and total disgrace on their university, athletically and academically.

sandinmyshoes
11-07-2015, 05:38 PM
Tough loss today but probably not the time to talk about UNC scandals. I'm sure if we had won none of this would have been mentioned and it would be a sweet victory after a difficult loss last week. I expect more from DBR.

It was a stunningly immature article in a sour grapes vein. But, it was a bitter loss and I guess some over reaction is to be expected.

sagegrouse
11-07-2015, 05:39 PM
I don't have a problem with the front page article, although I would probably have stopped after the fifth paragraph. It is not clear to me that the current UNC football players and coaches participated in the "no-show" regime, which is under attack.

flyingdutchdevil
11-07-2015, 05:45 PM
It was a stunningly immature article in a sour grapes vein. But, it was a bitter loss and I guess some over reaction is to be expected.

I have to agree 100% for everything said here. And I do feel that, as the front page representation of the #1 Duke sports fan base, this reflects very poorly on Duke fans.

brlftz
11-07-2015, 06:25 PM
I'm going to disagree with the crowd here...I think today is a great moment to acknowledge the completion of Carolina's metamorphosis. They won a game, but have lost a lot more.

kaufmjo
11-07-2015, 06:54 PM
Valid responses for the most part, and frankly I'm glad to see DBR add some spice to the mix. There's always passion to defend Duke as there should be in almost all circumstances but today was just a drubbing so as was said, next play.

Furniture
11-07-2015, 06:58 PM
When things go bad for other schools many on this board mention about the meltdown our rivals are having. Just yesterday there were several comments ridiculing Wake fans and UNC fans for their reactions to not getting Harry Giles. I am surprised and disappointed at some of the sore loser posts that I read On DBR today plus this front page article.
Sometimes you just can't win them all. It's a fact of life.


Losing is only temporary and not all encompassing. You must simply study it, learn from it, and try hard not to lose the same way again. Then you must have the self-control to forget about it.

Trinity_93
11-07-2015, 07:09 PM
I have followed Duke's season with hope and interest, but I didn't watch this game. I am only interested in games against UNC to the degree that they affect our season/postseason chances. Nothing about UNC sports is about the final score anymore. The atmosphere around their teams is toxic. Win or lose, the cheating is the narrative. The only way to win is not to play, and if our league obligations didn't prohibit it, I would prefer to drop them from our schedule indefinitely.

The timing makes JD's comments read like sour grapes, I admit, but if it ever turned out that we were cheating like UNC has been doing since I was in high school, I would argue that Duke should drop athletics altogether. Not only would I advocate it, I would expect it.

UNC's football team is apparently better than ours. Sure. Don't really care. So are the Jacksonville Jaguars. Now we're 6-3 and looking forward to Pitt next week, and that game I will definitely watch.

Go Duke!

fuse
11-07-2015, 08:16 PM
Joe Ovies got hold of the link and it is now on twitter.
It will be interesting to see the twitterverse feedback.

mattman91
11-07-2015, 08:32 PM
The past 7 days have made Duke Football fans the whiniest in the country.

NYBri
11-07-2015, 08:37 PM
Article was in bad form, IMHO.

6th Man
11-07-2015, 08:50 PM
Article was in bad form, IMHO.

I find the article very hypocritical of everything this board and site tries to be. While the content is understandable, the timing is not.

CrazyNotCrazie
11-07-2015, 09:10 PM
Poorly done. Take your losses and move on. I have always admired that the attitude at DBR has been to be very careful about what you write (particularly regarding recruiting) because whether we like it or not, we are representing Duke University. The post further reinforces the popular notion that Duke fans are whiners. It would have been best to let the miserable game end, take a walk around the block, breathe a little bit, then post, rather than writing when emotions were high at the end of a bad loss.

Not our greatest moment, either on the field or on the internet.

rthomas
11-07-2015, 09:38 PM
This kind of writing only began after DBR sold out to SB Nation. It's not the first badly written or poorly thought out post from the front page.

Duke95
11-07-2015, 09:40 PM
Poorly done. Take your losses and move on. I have always admired that the attitude at DBR has been to be very careful about what you write (particularly regarding recruiting) because whether we like it or not, we are representing Duke University. The post further reinforces the popular notion that Duke fans are whiners. It would have been best to let the miserable game end, take a walk around the block, breathe a little bit, then post, rather than writing when emotions were high at the end of a bad loss.

Not our greatest moment, either on the field or on the internet.

I'm sure Lance Armstrong wishes everyone had that mindset. If they did, he'd still have 7 ill-gotten TdF titles.

We lost to a far better team, no doubt about that. But that doesn't change the fact that UNC football and its revenue and non-revenue sports alike benefited from many years of academic fraud. This year, UNC football is dead last in ACC graduation rates. Their players seem to be in a courtroom more often than a classroom. To this day, so many Duke fans seem completely unaware of just how institutionalized the cheating was at UNC.

But yes, they beat the crap out of us on the football field. No doubt about it. At the end of the day, I'm proud of our team and our school, win or lose, and not just because of our on-field or on-court accomplishments.

oldnavy
11-07-2015, 09:56 PM
I really don't see the article as sour grapes at all. JD conceeds we were beaten in the field. He simply is expressing the frustration many of us feel wkith regards to fair play and sportsmanship and its demise in general and specifically at UNC. Too early? Perhaps. Sour grapes? I don't see it that way.

gurufrisbee
11-07-2015, 10:18 PM
I have no problem at all with this article. When you choose to cheat and you choose to not play by the rules, you deserve to have that brought up EVERY time anyone talks about you, regardless of the outcome or what happened. That's the consequence you accept when you choose to operate like that. Every NC article should talk about them that way. Even when Coach K's guys beat them by 30 this year, that should still be how they are covered.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-07-2015, 10:20 PM
The past 7 days have made Duke Football fans the whiniest in the country.

Unsurprisingly I agree with you.

bob blue devil
11-08-2015, 07:29 AM
agree with those who are embarrassed by the articles. any argument that the game no longer holds the same importance and/or they're no longer our rival should have been made immediately before the game, as should have any focus on the academic scandal. making those comments after the game comes across as a childish effort to deflect the emotion of a very painful loss.

Bike4Fun
11-08-2015, 08:20 AM
I understand the feeling, but I'm totally embarrassed by the article and the timing. I suspect that JD should have put it aside, slept on it, and then decide if it still felt right (just like I did when deciding to add this comment). Just like the sentiment that the ACC would never reverse the call against Miami, at least they admitted they messed up the call. I kind of wish there was an apology for the timing of the article, if not the article itself. The rivalry is not tarnished, and if anything it's enhanced by the edginess. Maybe the article just adds to that?

cruxer
11-08-2015, 08:31 AM
I have to agree with the tenor of this thread. The timing of the article (plus the mention in the game article) was off-putting to me and I suffered through the entire drubbing yesterday. It stands in stark contrast to the attitude the mods try to enforce here in the forums, and it's on the front page! They whupped us fair and square. We have to take it and move on.

-c

sagegrouse
11-08-2015, 08:36 AM
I am embarrassed only by the football headline this AM: "Tar Heels Route Duke." The word is "Rout."

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-08-2015, 08:55 AM
Not to pile on here, but I agree that carping about the never-ending investigation after being housed like that so thoroughly comes off as petty.

Let's take it out on them on the hardwood and let the NCAA do their job... whatever that is

peteandpete
11-08-2015, 09:37 AM
I am embarrassed only by the football headline this AM: "Tar Heels Route Duke." The word is "Rout."

Thanks Sagegrouse; I checked my work and I did use the correct word "rout." I can only assume, judging from the tone of the "summary" posted by JD before he posted mine, that anger editing reared its ugly head. Any other mistakes were mine alone.

2008grad
11-08-2015, 10:03 AM
Really poor timing. I don't disagree with the sentiment and am still baffled by the UNC scandal and the fans/alumni reaction to it. But posting an article RIGHT after getting smoked titled, "The Thrill is Gone" just looks like a sore loser. Would the thrill have been gone had we won? Would the post had read, "We won, but it really isn't satisfying anymore because...." Was the thrill gone when we beat UNC in Cameron last year? According to this article, it should have been. Additionally, as someone else noted, the logic of the post falls apart when you take into account that we have beaten UNC in football on a far more consistent basis in the past 5 years....soooo.....it actually is an even playing field. I was bummed about the game and then embarrassed by the article. Not a great day yesterday...

Scorp4me
11-08-2015, 10:08 AM
I'm not so sure. I had a friend (and Carolina fan) who was texting with me as the game began. After the first touchdown and some understandable ribbing my first response wasn't to consider the game...it was to consider the scandal. I shot back about the players being well rested with no classes to attend. It's just what this rivalry has devolved into and it's their fault, not ours.

As I saw stated in another thread, they have given us the ultimate trump card. In the end, they cheated. I have some friends who I consider "good" Carolina fans (there are a few I'm sure) and I'm disappointed by their reaction when I discuss the scandal. Much like the school at large they simply choose to ignore it usually with a "well, yeah..." and then trail off. I've yet to have even one say yes I'm highly disappointed by it, it's embarrassing, but their my team and I'm going to stick with them. And these are people that ate and breathed the Carolina way, have shelves lined with Dean Smith books. It's not that the scandal is the "only" thing left to consider that would make it sad for Duke...it's that it's the first thing to consider that makes it sad for UNC.

jseelke
11-08-2015, 07:09 PM
To be honest, I would have to agree with the sentiment that many have expressed. I was disappointed that so much of not one but two articles focused on the scandal with UNC. Two years ago when we won anyone who was a senior on this team would have been a sophomore. Same players but different result. I am also guessing that UNC has tried to clean up its act over the past two years.

I wrote the game preview that I admit didn't focus much on stats, but what Duke had done over the past few years (some wins, some loses). I get being disappointed with the result of the game, but putting focus on the UNC scandle seemed out of place

oldnavy
11-09-2015, 06:54 AM
To be honest, I would have to agree with the sentiment that many have expressed. I was disappointed that so much of not one but two articles focused on the scandal with UNC. Two years ago when we won anyone who was a senior on this team would have been a sophomore. Same players but different result. I am also guessing that UNC has tried to clean up its act over the past two years.

I wrote the game preview that I admit didn't focus much on stats, but what Duke had done over the past few years (some wins, some loses). I get being disappointed with the result of the game, but putting focus on the UNC scandle seemed out of place

Why on earth would anyone make this assumption??

Last year they completely trashed our locker room and to date they have been denying that they ever did anything that really needs cleaning up. Lip service AFTER being caught means nothing.

UNC is not serious about cleaning anything up. If so they wouldn't be wasting MILLIONS of dollars on PR cover ups.

We have had MANY losses to UNC in football over the years when we took our lumps. I have NO problem at all with throwing the cheating scandal right back at UNC whether we win, lose or draw until they are dealt with and made to pay for their crimes.

Remember, the million dollar BS machine has you thinking exactly what they want you to think if you fall for the "we are all good now, let's move along"... line.

Keep in mind the "carolina way" is simply to have you believe that they are righteous, not that they are righteous.

elvis14
11-09-2015, 09:26 AM
Why on earth would anyone make this assumption??

Last year they completely trashed our locker room and to date they have been denying that they ever did anything that really needs cleaning up. Lip service AFTER being caught means nothing.

UNC is not serious about cleaning anything up. If so they wouldn't be wasting MILLIONS of dollars on PR cover ups.



UNCheats just assumes that we are all idiots. First they come out and state things like the Men's basketball team is not affected and that the Football team has already been sanctioned (they have but it was for all the other issues, not the paper class cheating issue) and in general they minimize the cheating as much as they can. Then they come out and say they have made a long list of changes to clean up their program. Well which is it? Was the program really dirty (and thus in need of a a long list of changes) or was it not? You can't have it both ways.

To keep this on track, you can add me to the list of people that think the timing of this article isn't great. I'm all for continually calling out the cheaters for what they have done and lobbying the NCAA to drop the hammer (after a long slow burn that kills Roy's recruiting). But right after getting crushed on the football field is not the time to bring up the cheating (that's a UNC move).

CoSprings
11-09-2015, 01:07 PM
The article reminded me of a high school cheer after our team continually got destroyed by other teams. "That's all-right, that's ok, you'll be working for us someday." Poor taste then, poor taste now. The article wreaked of entitlement and arrogance, only supporting the stereo-type of the Duke community.

Take your losses and go home. And get better. That's the only response. Don't like getting your butt beat? Get better.

Next Play