Amile Update

[CoSprings]

Any word on Amille's ankle injury? I assume if it was bad from the X-rays this morning something would have leaked by now, right? Get well big fella...

[flyingdutchdevil]

Amile. One 'l'. Gotta get that right if you start a thread about the player.

[devildeac]

Amile. One 'l'. Gotta get that right if you start a thread about the player.

IOW, get the the "l' out of there. :o

[pfrduke]

Amile. One 'l'. Gotta get that right if you start a thread about the player.

Fixed!

[DukeFanSince1990]

5671

I see what you did there.

[CoSprings]

Ah, the ticky tackiness that is the DBR Board. Now that we can all spell Amile, is there any word on his injury? No news is probably good news.

[Dev11]

Ah, the ticky tackiness that is the DBR Board. Now that we can all spell Amile, is there any word on his injury? No news is probably good news.

Rest assured that regardless of this thread's existence, the board will have any news on Amile when it is available. Nothing actually gets broken on DBR, but the discussion is always here.

[Olympic Fan]

No news ... but I would suggest that is good news.

If the injury was serious -- a break or something torn -- Duke would sent out a release. If it's merely a sprain, the school would say nothing officially. That's just the way Duke has already operated under K.

We're not out of the woods yet, but if it gets to this time tomorrow with no official announcement, I'd bet that it's nothing serious or long-term.

[MChambers]

No news ... but I would suggest that is good news.

If the injury was serious -- a break or something torn -- Duke would sent out a release. If it's merely a sprain, the school would say nothing officially. That's just the way Duke has already operated under K.

We're not out of the woods yet, but if it gets to this time tomorrow with no official announcement, I'd bet that it's nothing serious or long-term.

Awfully early in the season to have three vigils running simultaneously (albeit one for a recruiting target).

[BD80]

Amile. One 'l'. Gotta get that right if you start a thread about the player.

A miss is as good as A mile?

[Duke95]

awfully early in the season to have three vigils running simultaneously (albeit one for a future dukie).

fify :)

[jimsumner]

I'm at the women's exhibition game and the feeling seems to be that AJ might miss both games next week but doesn't have anything serious.

[OldPhiKap]

I'm at the women's exhibition game and the feeling seems to be that AJ might miss both games next week but doesn't have anything serious.

Thanks, Jim

[Tappan Zee Devil]

I'm at the women's exhibition game and the feeling seems to be that AJ might miss both games next week but doesn't have anything serious.

How does the women's team look? (or should that be a different thread?)

[jimsumner]

How does the women's team look? (or should that be a different thread?)

They're up 99-35 against a bad D-2 team (Pfeiffer).

Stevens and Greenwell are pretty good.

[jimsumner]

113-36 final.

If someone wants to start a thread, I'll post a few thoughts when I get back.

[mr. synellinden]

I'm at the women's exhibition game and the feeling seems to be that AJ might miss both games next week but doesn't have anything serious.

Any word on MJ and his availability for next week?

And thanks for all the info.

[jimsumner]

Any word on MJ and his availability for next week?

And thanks for all the info.

K said last night that he thinks Jones can go next week.

Fingers crossed.

[subzero02]

As long as Amile is back for our opponent on the 17th...

[Troublemaker]

I'm at the women's exhibition game and the feeling seems to be that AJ might miss both games next week but doesn't have anything serious.

Thanks for the update, Jim!

Hopefully Amile can play at least one of the games. With Kentucky looming after that, it'd be great if we could have our full team play a full real game at least once before stepping up in level against the Wildcats. We want the freshmen to be as accustomed as possible to our 3 upperclassmen coordinating them and barking orders at them during live play. As Coach K likes to say, talk is the lifeblood of defense, and it stinks that a couple of our defensive leaders and best talkers are banged up right now.

[NovaScotian]

Nothing actually gets broken on DBR, but the discussion is always here.

Like kyrie's toe, for instance.

[Billy Dat]

Stephen Wiseman ‏@stevewisemanNC 2h2 hours ago
X-rays confirm no break in Amile Jefferson's ankle. Duke senior forward has a sprain.

[moonpie23]

this is good news......heal up soon,man...

[Tom B.]

113-36 final.

Whew. A real nail-biter there for a while, but fortunately our ladies were able to close with a strong 14-1 run to seal the W.

[brlftz]

this is good news.....heal up soon,man...

is that necessarily true? I had a severe ankle sprain my junior year at duke, was in a cast for 6 weeks and was told that a break might have healed faster. of course, that might not be measured by the "heal = able to play college basketball" standard.

[jimsumner]

I confess I was a bit worried about this just because of Duke's very bad luck with foot injuries, foot defined to include high ankle and toes.

The ACL is the injury du jour-ask Harry Giles--but the foot is Duke's Achilles heel (see what I did there?). Bobby Hurley, Grant Hill (twice), Chris Collins, David Henderson in the NCAAs, Cherokee Parks in the NCAAs, Nate James, Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer (twice), DeMarcus Nelson, Kyrie Irving, Ryan Kelly (twice) and I'm sure I'm forgetting someone, probably several someones.

So, yes, I hold my breath every single time a Duke player rolls an ankle or hobbles off the court.

[MChambers]

The ACL is the injury du jour-ask Harry Giles--but the foot is Duke's Achilles heel (see what I did there?). Bobby Hurley, Grant Hill (twice), Chris Collins, David Henderson in the NCAAs, Cherokee Parks in the NCAAs, Nate James, Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer (twice), DeMarcus Nelson, Kyrie Irving, Ryan Kelly (twice) and I'm sure I'm forgetting someone, probably several someones.

So, yes, I hold my breath every single time a Duke player rolls an ankle or hobbles off the court.
Brian Zoubek and Marshall Plumlee.

[JMarley50]

is that necessarily true? I had a severe ankle sprain my junior year at duke, was in a cast for 6 weeks and was told that a break might have healed faster. of course, that might not be measured by the "heal = able to play college basketball" standard.

I think it varies on the player and situation really. I had a severe sprain in a game my freshman year in college. I went up for a rebound, got my legs cut out a little and landed with the tip of my toes on top of another guy's shoe. That was in a Tuesday game. The doctor wanted me on crutches for two weeks, projected around 4 weeks before I returned. Long story short, I ended up playing Saturday. My ankle was taped and braced, I didn't have a ton of mobility, but managed to get up and down the floor and clog the lane. In my situation, I was really the only big man, so anything I could offer was probably better than the alternative. Amile on the other hand probably won't be rushed back. A healthy Chase will probably be a better option over a hobbled Amile, who relies on his mobility.

[jimsumner]

Brian Zoubek and Marshall Plumlee.

Ah, yes. Add Paulus.

What a depressing litany.

[oldnavy]

Ah, yes. Add Paulus.

What a depressing litany.

Remember that bad run of foot issues over at UNC a few years back?? Some of us were blaming it on the "MJ curse" you know, "it's got to be the shoes"!!

As far as severity of sprains, I have had enough to know that they sure are painful and can linger, BUT I have never had access to the state of the art physical therapy at DUMC that these players benefit from. That's got to make a HUGE difference in how quickly one can recover.

God Speed Amile, get better soon!

[Olympic Fan]

I confess I was a bit worried about this just because of Duke's very bad luck with foot injuries, foot defined to include high ankle and toes.

The ACL is the injury du jour-ask Harry Giles--but the foot is Duke's Achilles heel (see what I did there?). Bobby Hurley, Grant Hill (twice), Chris Collins, David Henderson in the NCAAs, Cherokee Parks in the NCAAs, Nate James, Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer (twice), DeMarcus Nelson, Kyrie Irving, Ryan Kelly (twice) and I'm sure I'm forgetting someone, probably several someones.

So, yes, I hold my breath every single time a Duke player rolls an ankle or hobbles off the court.

But, Jim, many of these injuries are broken bones in the foot -- Hurley, both Boozer injuries, Irving, Brand ... several more.

Both of Grant Hill's injuries were sprains -- in 1992, he was out from Feb. 26 to Mar. 13 ... in 1993, he suffered the notorious "high ankle sprain" in a Feb. 13 game against Wake and was not able to return until the first ACC Tournament game against Georgia Tech on Mar. 12 --- almost a month later. I think that's the worst "sprain" in my memory, but I remember being told at that time that it was the most severe sprain -- and in a difficult place -- possible.

Obviously, it's impossible to put a timeline on Amile's injury -- sprains almost vary a lot in severity. But a week, two weeks seem to be more of the norm, especially with the first-class treatment Duke kids get.

[jimsumner]

But, Jim, many of these injuries are broken bones in the foot -- Hurley, both Boozer injuries, Irving, Brand ... several more.

Both of Grant Hill's injuries were sprains -- in 1992, he was out from Feb. 26 to Mar. 13 ... in 1993, he suffered the notorious "high ankle sprain" in a Feb. 13 game against Wake and was not able to return until the first ACC Tournament game against Georgia Tech on Mar. 12 --- almost a month later. I think that's the worst "sprain" in my memory, but I remember being told at that time that it was the most severe sprain -- and in a difficult place -- possible.

Obviously, it's impossible to put a timeline on Amile's injury -- sprains almost vary a lot in severity. But a week, two weeks seem to be more of the norm, especially with the first-class treatment Duke kids get.

I thought my use of the term "foot injuries" suggested that I was talking about more than just sprained ankles.

[SCMatt33]

But, Jim, many of these injuries are broken bones in the foot -- Hurley, both Boozer injuries, Irving, Brand ... several more.

Both of Grant Hill's injuries were sprains -- in 1992, he was out from Feb. 26 to Mar. 13 ... in 1993, he suffered the notorious "high ankle sprain" in a Feb. 13 game against Wake and was not able to return until the first ACC Tournament game against Georgia Tech on Mar. 12 --- almost a month later. I think that's the worst "sprain" in my memory, but I remember being told at that time that it was the most severe sprain -- and in a difficult place -- possible.

Obviously, it's impossible to put a timeline on Amile's injury -- sprains almost vary a lot in severity. But a week, two weeks seem to be more of the norm, especially with the first-class treatment Duke kids get.

Since you brought up "high ankle sprain" it's probably good to mention that a high ankle sprain is fundamentally different than an average sprained ankle. There are different ligaments and tendons involved with the two injuries. High ankle sprains are usually the ones that cause people to be out a month or more. I'm not a medical expert so maybe there are other sprains that can have this timeline, but I also feel like "high ankle sprain" would have been reported if that was indeed the injury.

[mattman91]

Can we re-name this to the Amile Jefferson Foot Vigil?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Can we re-name this to the Amile Jefferson Foot Vigil?

Can we not? Vigils are for serious injuries/incidents. Being absent for two games in the beginning of the season doesn't really qualify.

[mattman91]

Can we not? Vigils are for serious injuries/incidents. Being absent for two games in the beginning of the season doesn't really qualify.

But it's uncertain how many games he will miss, right?

[flyingdutchdevil]

But it's uncertain how many games he will miss, right?

Jim Sumner said it would be two games, but there obviously is uncertainty.

I'm just against vigils that aren't for severe injuries. We might as well create the 'allen's foot vigil' and 'Matt's groin vigil'.

[PSurprise]

Jim Sumner said it would be two games, but there obviously is uncertainty.

I'm just against vigils that aren't for severe injuries. We might as well create the 'allen's foot vigil' and 'Matt's groin vigil'.

So we would have a vigil vigil to see when a vigil returns? :D

[MChambers]

So we would have a vigil vigil to see when a vigil returns? :D

Perhaps a metavigil?

[mattman91]

Jim Sumner said it would be two games, but there obviously is uncertainty.

I'm just against vigils that aren't for severe injuries. We might as well create the 'allen's foot vigil' and 'Matt's groin vigil'.

That's fine, as long as it isn't one of those nagging injuries that take forever to heal. I mean, how many people expected Kyrie to be out as long as he was because of his toe?

I'll wait for a DBR windbag to share his/her thoughts on how they knew he would miss the entire season.

[Kedsy]

That's fine, as long as it isn't one of those nagging injuries that take forever to heal. I mean, how many people expected Kyrie to be out as long as he was because of his toe?

I'll wait for a DBR windbag to share his/her thoughts on how they knew he would miss the entire season.

I may or may not be a "DBR windbag," but the difference is the announcement. Kyrie was announced to be out "indefinitely." I remember people hoping he could back by mid-February, but saying that was only a hope. That's a lot different from people saying "probably a couple of games."

[Indoor66]

Perhaps a metavigil?

Maybe a microvigil?

[MChambers]

You're definitely a DBR windbag, Kedsy, I mean, look at all those sporks! But you're right 99% of the time.

[Olympic Fan]

I thought my use of the term "foot injuries" suggested that I was talking about more than just sprained ankles.

Jim, I understand ... but I don't think the broken foot bones and/or big toe bones are relevant to Amile's injury and his recovery window.

[cato]

That's fine, as long as it isn't one of those nagging injuries that take forever to heal. I mean, how many people expected Kyrie to be out as long as he was because of his toe?

I'll wait for a DBR windbag to share his/her thoughts on how they knew he would miss the entire season.

Kyrie hurt his toe right after I had witnessed Antonio Gates rendered ineffective for more than a year by a toe injury. Just last week, another Charger went on IR with turf toe. I was worried from the start with Kyrie, and think I said as much here.

Ankle injuries always worry me. Big Jah never recovered his explosiveness after his injury last year. Fortunately, he had enough other tools, and the rest of the team was good enough, to overcome that.

Also, I don't think that Duke will let us know if it is a high ankle sprain or a more prosaic one. They have no reason to, and in fact have reason not to.

[mattman91]

I may or may not be a "DBR windbag," but the difference is the announcement. Kyrie was announced to be out "indefinitely." I remember people hoping he could back by mid-February, but saying that was only a hope. That's a lot different from people saying "probably a couple of games."

Kedsy, I wasn't talking about you. I was obviously referring to those trolls with a low spork count.


Kyrie hurt his toe right after I had witnessed Antonio Gates rendered ineffective for more than a year by a toe injury. Just last week, another Charger went on IR with turf toe. I was worried from the start with Kyrie, and think I said as much here.

Ankle injuries always worry me. Big Jah never recovered his explosiveness after his injury last year. Fortunately, he had enough other tools, and the rest of the team was good enough, to overcome that.

Also, I don't think that Duke will let us know if it is a high ankle sprain or a more prosaic one. They have no reason to, and in fact have reason not to.

Which totally sucks for us fans, not that it really matters. Frustrating though.

[budwom]

OK, so unless I've missed it here, I'm amazed none of you windbags and non windbags have mentioned the article in GoDuke magazine(I think that's where I saw it) which
stated that Duke now proactively screens (MRIs) players to see if they have predispositions (may not be the right word...but weaknesses) in the metatarsals and in knee ligaments.
They feel that this screening prevents some of these injuries from happening (via the use of orthotics and other cool stuff). I'd say more, but I have to load up on some more wind.

[devildeac]

OK, so unless I've missed it here, I'm amazed none of you windbags and non windbags have mentioned the article in GoDuke magazine(I think that's where I saw it) which
stated that Duke now proactively screens (MRIs) players to see if they have predispositions (may not be the right word...but weaknesses) in the metatarsals and in knee ligaments.
They feel that this screening prevents some of these injuries from happening (via the use of orthotics and other cool stuff). I'd say more, but I have to load up on some more wind.

Speaking of more wind, is that you, budwom?

(warning: contains comic with MD and hard of hearing senior citizen with pants partially pulled down:o)


https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQYSjzfv-rE3gC6OpnBmHcb2r7pZcYVOpHFpLS8mCBvyIc5ELVpUw

[NYBri]

Perhaps a metavigil?

But, how many minutes will Metavigil get?

[jimsumner]

Jim, I understand ... but I don't think the broken foot bones and/or big toe bones are relevant to Amile's injury and his recovery window.

Which wasn't what I was discussing. I was discussing a certain anxiety I felt whenever I see a Duke player go down with an apparent foot injury. Severity unknown at the time of that anxiety. Duration unknown. Exact nature of injury unknown.

At that time.

Let me give you one of my tortured analogies. You're driving down I-40, a little over the speed limit.

You see a flashing blue light in your rear-view mirror, getting closer.

You think you're going to get pulled, maybe get a ticket.

The blue light speeds by and you breath a sign of relief that it's not as bad as you feared.

That still doesn't negate the anxiety you felt when you first saw the flashing blue light.

A later diagnosis of non-severe sprained ankle doesn't negate the anxiety I feel when I see a Duke player injured in a manner that all too often has ended up being an injury of consequence.

Does that clarify my thoughts?

I heard last night that Jefferson might not be ready next week. I do not believe I have expressed any knowledge beyond that.

So, we should just wait and see. Perhaps give it a name, a title, a designation.

Anybody up for a vigil?

[PSurprise]

Perhaps a metavigil?

a vigilception if you will.

[BLPOG]

Can we re-name this to the Amile Jefferson Foot Vigil?


So we would have a vigil vigil to see when a vigil returns? :D


Perhaps a metavigil?


Maybe a microvigil?


a vigilception if you will.

Sometimes I think half the forum is on modafinil.

[Kedsy]

Sometimes I think half the forum is on modafinil.

What's the other half on?

[BLPOG]

What's the other half on?

I don't know if they're on anything, but I call them the invigilators.

[jimsumner]

Hey, I'm just getting over a bout of bronchitis. I can't tell you everything I'm on without looking it up but the steroid packs a punch. :)

[JPtheGame]

I confess I was a bit worried about this just because of Duke's very bad luck with foot injuries, foot defined to include high ankle and toes.

The ACL is the injury du jour-ask Harry Giles--but the foot is Duke's Achilles heel (see what I did there?). Bobby Hurley, Grant Hill (twice), Chris Collins, David Henderson in the NCAAs, Cherokee Parks in the NCAAs, Nate James, Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer (twice), DeMarcus Nelson, Kyrie Irving, Ryan Kelly (twice) and I'm sure I'm forgetting someone, probably several someones.

So, yes, I hold my breath every single time a Duke player rolls an ankle or hobbles off the court.

Its the shoes or its the padding under the floor or both.
Far too many to be coincidental.

[dbcooper]

Which wasn't what I was discussing. I was discussing a certain anxiety I felt whenever I see a Duke player go down with an apparent foot injury. Severity unknown at the time of that anxiety. Duration unknown. Exact nature of injury unknown.

At that time.

Let me give you one of my tortured analogies. You're driving down I-40, a little over the speed limit.

You see a flashing blue light in your rear-view mirror, getting closer.

You think you're going to get pulled, maybe get a ticket.

The blue light speeds by and you breath a sign of relief that it's not as bad as you feared.

That still doesn't negate the anxiety you felt when you first saw the flashing blue light.

A later diagnosis of non-severe sprained ankle doesn't negate the anxiety I feel when I see a Duke player injured in a manner that all too often has ended up being an injury of consequence.

Does that clarify my thoughts?

I heard last night that Jefferson might not be ready next week. I do not believe I have expressed any knowledge beyond that.

So, we should just wait and see. Perhaps give it a name, a title, a designation.

Anybody up for a vigil?

I seen Amile on Campus today about 11:30 and he was walking with a Air Cast boot on - No Crutches!

Great sign IMO!

[Tripping William]

Hey, I'm just getting over a bout of bronchitis. I can't tell you everything I'm on without looking it up but the steroid packs a punch. :)

With apologies to Stray Gator, sounds like the same prescription as Will Grier's. :rolleyes:

[NSDukeFan]

Its the shoes or its the padding under the floor or both.
Far too many to be coincidental.

It's obviously not a coincidence. Every one of the players was playing basketball at the time of injury. I have heard there have been players all across the country and even up here in Canada that have had these foot and/or ankle injuries while playing basketball, as well as other sports.

[Son of Jarhead]

Looks like they were worried about a fracture, but MRI reveals only a sprain: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2586243-amile-jefferson-injury-updates-on-duke-stars-ankle-and-return

[oldnavy]

Hey, I'm just getting over a bout of bronchitis. I can't tell you everything I'm on without looking it up but the steroid packs a punch. :)

THAT explains your aggressive nature of late, you are 'roiding'! Jim is "juicing"!

Granted not the type of steroids that generally cause this reaction, but roids nonetheless! :rolleyes:

Feel better my friend, and drink lots of WATER (beer and scotch do not count as hydration I am afraid!)

[Jim3k]

Hey, I'm just getting over a bout of bronchitis. I can't tell you everything I'm on without looking it up but the steroid packs a punch. :)

Prednisone sure does. Been there and done that. Take care, Jim. We senior citizens are really vulnerable to bronchitis, the type that just doesn't go away. Prednisone is amazing, but it has its drawbacks.

[jimsumner]

Prednisone sure does. Been there and done that. Take care, Jim. We senior citizens are really vulnerable to bronchitis, the type that just doesn't go away. Prednisone is amazing, but it has its drawbacks.

Yes, it's prednisone. What's it to you? Wanna fight??

Actually, for me the symptoms are more hyper than aggressive. What I always imagine Red Bull would be like if I drank Red Bull.

[sagegrouse]

Prednisone sure does. Been there and done that. Take care, Jim. We senior citizens are really vulnerable to bronchitis, the type that just doesn't go away. Prednisone is amazing, but it has its drawbacks.

Let's review. It can be a disaster for your immune system. Been there, done that.

Kindly,
Sage

[JPtheGame]

OK, so unless I've missed it here, I'm amazed none of you windbags and non windbags have mentioned the article in GoDuke magazine(I think that's where I saw it) which
stated that Duke now proactively screens (MRIs) players to see if they have predispositions (may not be the right word...but weaknesses) in the metatarsals and in knee ligaments.
They feel that this screening prevents some of these injuries from happening (via the use of orthotics and other cool stuff). I'd say more, but I have to load up on some more wind.

They've also initiated the practice of signing kids who currently have torn knee ligaments. Takes all the guesswork out of it.

[jimsumner]

Duke has a media availability tomorrow. I'll be out of town. But I suspect the subject will come up. We should know more.

Back in Cameron, St. Leo's just got a and-one to cut Duke's lead to a precarious 65 points.

[rsvman]

They've also initiated the practice of signing kids who currently have torn knee ligaments. Takes all the guesswork out of it.

This is ingenious and very convenient. :cool:

[budwom]

There was a good New Yorker cartoon a few years ago in which a doctor explained to a patient "well, now that you've got it, you don't have to worry about getting it."

[Billy Dat]

Laura Keeley ‏@laurakeeley 6m6 minutes ago
Both Amile Jefferson and Matt Jones were full speed at practice today for Duke

[flyingdutchdevil]

Laura Keeley ‏@laurakeeley 6m6 minutes ago
Both Amile Jefferson and Matt Jones were full speed at practice today for Duke

Excellent news. Thanks for that Billy

Looks like a starting five of Allen, Jones, Ingram, AJ, and MP3. I like it. Strong balance between offense and defense.

[Class of '94]

Excellent news. Thanks for that Billy

Looks like a starting five of Allen, Jones, Ingram, AJ, and MP3. I like it. Strong balance between offense and defense.

I agree; but I'd like to see Thornton crack the starting lineup before ACC play begins; or at least by January or February.

[NSDukeFan]

I agree; but I'd like to see Thornton crack the starting lineup before ACC play begins; or at least by January or February.

Are we expecting Justin to be a 7'1 physical specimen this year or is that later? Who does he replace in the starting lineup?

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

I agree; but I'd like to see Thornton crack the starting lineup before ACC play begins; or at least by January or February.

If Thornton starts, who doesn't (Allen or Jones?) ?

[JasonEvans]

If Thornton starts, who doesn't (Allen or Jones?) ?

MP3. We go with Ingram as the 2nd big.

I'm not advocating that, but I think that is more likely than Allen or Jones not starting.

[flyingdutchdevil]

MP3. We go with Ingram as the 2nd big.

I'm not advocating that, but I think that is more likely than Allen or Jones not starting.

I'm worried about Ingram starting the 4. Coach K loves his spread four and Ingram - offensively - is a perfect match. But can Ingram take the physicality that comes with guarding the four? I'm not so sure.

[sagegrouse]

I'm worried about Ingram starting the 4. Coach K loves his spread four and Ingram - offensively - is a perfect match. But can Ingram take the physicality that comes with guarding the four? I'm not so sure.

Heck, I wonder if, more than once, we'll see a five-guard lineup on the court: Ingram, Jones, Grayson, Kennard and Thornton.

[BD80]

Heck, I wonder if, more than once, we'll see a five-guard lineup on the court: Ingram, Jones, Grayson, Kennard and Thornton.

At the end of every close game when we have the lead and the ball.

[David Bunkley]

I agree; but I'd like to see Thornton crack the starting lineup before ACC play begins; or at least by January or February.

At this point, I'd think the more likely candidate would be Luke. Personally, I would be completely satisfied with the lineup we saw in the first exhibition, due to the strength and length it would provide defensively. Then, we could bring in Derryck, Luke, and Chase for a change of pace.

Either way, this team has a ton of options and plenty of room for growth. Should be a fun year.

#GODUKE

[left_hook_lacey]

How does the women's team look? (or should that be a different thread?)

Smaller, and alarmingly less athletic than the men’s team. :o

[Class of '94]

MP3. We go with Ingram as the 2nd big.

I'm not advocating that, but I think that is more likely than Allen or Jones not starting.

Sorry, late on responding to the question. I agree. That lineup would be long, versatile and athletic. That being said, while Grayson is one of our 5 best players, he may be best suited giving us a spark off the bench along with Luke and Chase. Just a thought.

[Billy Dat]

I'm worried about Ingram starting the 4. Coach K loves his spread four and Ingram - offensively - is a perfect match. But can Ingram take the physicality that comes with guarding the four? I'm not so sure.

Dutch - I have to say that watching Knicks rookie Kristaps Porzingis battle in the early NBA schedule has shown me that a tall rail thin dude can be very effective against beefier bigs as long as he moves his feet, stays vertical and doesn't shy from contact. If Brandon can keep his nose in there and fight, and avoid a lot of reaching, he'll block a lot of shots. On the flip side, against smaller quicker guys he can guard a little further out as long as he keeps his arms up and closes quick.

[cato]

Dutch - I have to say that watching Knicks rookie Kristaps Porzingis battle in the early NBA schedule has shown me that a tall rail thin dude can be very effective against beefier bigs as long as he moves his feet, stays vertical and doesn't shy from contact. If Brandon can keep his nose in there and fight, and avoid a lot of reaching, he'll block a lot of shots. On the flip side, against smaller quicker guys he can guard a little further out as long as he keeps his arms up and closes quick.

After watching the beatings that Singler took in the post, I completely understand if someone who is undersized is not up for that amount of physical abuse.

[pfrduke]

I'm worried about Ingram starting the 4. Coach K loves his spread four and Ingram - offensively - is a perfect match. But can Ingram take the physicality that comes with guarding the four? I'm not so sure.

So we throw this out a lot, but the college 4 is not really what it used to be. How many big, beefy, physical dudes is Ingram really going to have to deal with if he's guarding the 4?

[CoSprings]

So we throw this out a lot, but the college 4 is not really what it used to be. How many big, beefy, physical dudes is Ingram really going to have to deal with if he's guarding the 4?

Brice Johnson???? :)

[sagegrouse]

So we throw this out a lot, but the college 4 is not really what it used to be. How many big, beefy, physical dudes is Ingram really going to have to deal with if he's guarding the 4?

Agree. And you could insert "who can score" after "dudes."

[MChambers]

I'm also wondering if the new officiating efforts to cut back on rough play will mean more fronting of players in the low post, so that length may matter more than bulk. Guess we'll see.

Of course, if Brandon has to switch off UNC's "4" (since they play positions) onto Kennedy Meeks, I'm worried Meeks might try to eat him or something.

[devildeac]

I'm also wondering if the new officiating efforts to cut back on rough play will mean more fronting of players in the low post, so that length may matter more than bulk. Guess we'll see.

Of course, if Brandon has to switch off UNC's "4" (since they play positions) onto Kennedy Meeks, I'm worried Meeks might try to eat him or something.

Might try? :rolleyes:;)

[Wheat/"/"/"]

So we throw this out a lot, but the college 4 is not really what it used to be. How many big, beefy, physical dudes is Ingram really going to have to deal with if he's guarding the 4?

Isaiah Hicks for one...:)

As for Jefferson, I think you guys are underestimating his offensive impact for this upcoming season. And that's sort of surprising to me from the fan base. I think he's going to score some points this season for Duke and be a player that interior defenders have to guard.

He's one big that I think coach K has used very well as he has progressed. He was always and active defender and rebounder, but offensively, he's gotten better every season too. Especially putting the ball on the floor and attacking the rim... and his touch around the basket has improved each season.

He's stronger, more mature and knows the pace of the big games. I think he is the one player that would be very difficult for Duke to replace and maintain a high level of play.. if he were to have to sit.

[Jarhead]

Isaiah Hicks for one...:)

As for Jefferson, I think you guys are underestimating his offensive impact for this upcoming season. And that's sort of surprising to me from the fan base. I think he's going to score some points this season for Duke and be a player that interior defenders have to guard.

He's one big that I think coach K has used very well as he has progressed. He was always and active defender and rebounder, but offensively, he's gotten better every season too. Especially putting the ball on the floor and attacking the rim... and his touch around the basket has improved each season.

He's stronger, more mature and knows the pace of the big games. I think he is the one player that would be very difficult for Duke to replace and maintain a high level of play.. if he were to have to sit.

From my point of, welcome back, Wheat/"/"/", but GTHC.

[pfrduke]

Isaiah Hicks for one...:)

And honestly, if UNC decides to focus the offense through Isaiah Hicks to take advantage of a Hicks/Ingram mismatch, I think I'm happy with that as a Duke fan. Brice Johnson (no one's idea of beefy) is a much bigger threat against an inexperienced post defender, but for talent reasons, not brute force reasons.

[David Bunkley]

Isaiah Hicks for one...:)

As for Jefferson, I think you guys are underestimating his offensive impact for this upcoming season. And that's sort of surprising to me from the fan base. I think he's going to score some points this season for Duke and be a player that interior defenders have to guard.

He's one big that I think coach K has used very well as he has progressed. He was always and active defender and rebounder, but offensively, he's gotten better every season too. Especially putting the ball on the floor and attacking the rim... and his touch around the basket has improved each season.

He's stronger, more mature and knows the pace of the big games. I think he is the one player that would be very difficult for Duke to replace and maintain a high level of play.. if he were to have to sit.

I agree and also I wonder why, since size and length are the only two things Duke seems to have an abundance of, everyone seems to think that K will look to go smaller.

Last year, when Duke went smaller, there was a stud offensive-minded big man in the middle to free up shooters. This year when Duke goes small, there will be no double teams to collapse the defense and free up shooters, so everything will be predicated on the dribble drive. Having Amile and Marshall in at the same time should help defensively, as well as provide some unique high/low opportunities between those two, while still offering opportunities to take advantage of Ingram's size advantage over the wings that will guard him - an advantage that would be lost with him at the 4. I am pulling for the senior big men to play together as much as possible, because I think that will give us the best opportunity to win come March and April.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

And honestly, if UNC decides to focus the offense through Isaiah Hicks to take advantage of a Hicks/Ingram mismatch, I think I'm happy with that as a Duke fan. Brice Johnson (no one's idea of beefy) is a much bigger threat against an inexperienced post defender, but for talent reasons, not brute force reasons.

I'm looking forward to seeing Ingram play, I've never seen him in a game to have an opinion of him yet, although I know he's got to be really good with all the attention he gets.

BTW, Brice Johnson is listed at 230lbs now. I saw the Guilford exhibition and he looks markedly bigger than last year.

The UNC buzz is that Hicks has taken the big jump in his play since last season and could challenge Meeks to start alongside Johnson. He's always looked the part of a high level player physically, and he's reportedly now a strong 240lbs and much more confident in his play, which has been his biggest problem. Some kids just mature slower than others, despite their talent. He's always seemed to be that sort of kid to me.

[MChambers]

I agree and also I wonder why, since size and length are the only two things Duke seems to have an abundance of, everyone seems to think that K will look to go smaller.

Last year, when Duke went smaller, there was a stud offensive-minded big man in the middle to free up shooters. This year when Duke goes small, there will be no double teams to collapse the defense and free up shooters, so everything will be predicated on the dribble drive. Having Amile and Marshall in at the same time should help defensively, as well as provide some unique high/low opportunities between those two, while still offering opportunities to take advantage of Ingram's size advantage over the wings that will guard him - an advantage that would be lost with him at the 4. I am pulling for the senior big men to play together as much as possible, because I think that will give us the best opportunity to win come March and April.
Speaking only for myself, I worry about running an offense with two bigs with, at best, limited shooting range. But K figured out how to do it in 2010, so maybe he'll figure it out again.

[David Bunkley]

Speaking only for myself, I worry about running an offense with two bigs with, at best, limited shooting range. But K figured out how to do it in 2010, so maybe he'll figure it out again.

That's a fair concern. I'm excited to see how it all plays out.

[Troublemaker]

I agree and also I wonder why, since size and length are the only two things Duke seems to have an abundance of

There's an abundance of perimeter talent, too. For example, those who saw the first exhibition might be wondering, "Why isn't Thornton starting?" And those who saw the second exhibition might ask the same of Kennard.

If Derryck and Luke play well off the bench and improve as the season progresses, I could envision Ingram gradually playing more 4 to accommodate them, provided the smallball lineups remain effective.

[Olympic Fan]

Let's see -- how many big, powerful 4 men will Duke face in the ACC this year?

I think Anthony Gill at Virginia and Brice Johnson at UNC are the two best 4s in the league ... and neither is exactly a bruiser

Notre Dame is going to start Bonzie Colson at the 4 -- he's pretty strong, but just 6-5. Miami is going to start 6-8, 220-pound Kamari Murphy, who is not scoring threat (a very good defender and rebounder). FSU will alternate 6-8, 218 Phil Cofer and 6-9, 236-pound Jarquez Smith at the 4, when they are not playing four guards -- neither is much of an offensive threat.

Going down the standings -- Louisville is likely to start four wing players -- they may play their two 6-10 Africans together, but neither Mathiang or Onuaku are bruisers (and neither is a real scoring threat). Syracuse is likely to start 6-8, 212-pound Tyler Robertson at the 4 (there's not a powerful 4 on the roster). Clemson will start 6-7, 220-pound Jaron Blossomgame and 6-8, 210 Donte Graham at the forwards. I don't know which is the 4 and which is the 3, but while both (especially Blossomgame) can score, neither is physically overpowering. Forget VPI and BC.

Wake will start 6-10, 245-pound K Mitoglou at 4. He is a big, powerful guy -- but he doesn't play that way -- he likes to float on the perimeter a shoot 3s. If Moore excels at center, then Devin Thomas (6-9, 245) will see time at the 4 and he IS a big, strong inside bully who has played well against Duke in the past.

I'd say the same about Charles Mitchell, a 6-8, 256-poind bruiser at Georgia Tech who has given Duke trouble in the paint in the past. Not sure if he's their 4 or 5, but he probably teams with Alabama transfer Nick Jacobs, who is 6-8, 263. Either way, a tough matchup for Ingram at the 4.

But the toughest potential matchup could be NC State. Their starting 4 will be veteran Leonard Freeman --6-8, 250, although he's not normally much of a scorer. On the other hand, State will also play Abu (6-9, 240) and Anya (6-9, 295) together in the post and both are capable of exploiting a matchup.

Still, the idea is that Ingram at the 4 is just one option for K to use, depending on the matchups and the game situation. For 75-80 percent of the time, he will be matched against 4s that he can physically handle or are no threat (if Denny Crum wants to go two towers and run his offense through Mathiang or Onouaku, so much the better). For those rare times when he would have to face a Mitchell or an Abu, obviously K goes with two bigs and let's Ingram play on the perimeter.

Heck, those might be the rare moments with Obi's strength really come into play.

[77devil]

He's one big that I think coach K has used very well as he has progressed.

As opposed to other bigs? It didn't take long Wheat to take your first dig at Coach K and bigs(as I predicted today in another thread).



(if Denny Crum wants to go two towers and run his offense through Mathiang or Onouaku, so much the better).

Did I miss the announcement that Pitino resigned for Escortgate and Denny Crum has stepped in to coach the Cardinals again?

[Olympic Fan]

Did I miss the announcement that Pitino resigned for Escortgate and Denny Crum has stepped in to coach the Cardinals again?

Oops ... that should be in the wild and crazy prediction thread.

Seriously ... my goof (I also suggested that Anthony Gill and Brice Johnson both play for Virginia ... I gotta lower my coffee intake).

[NYBri]

I'm looking forward to seeing Ingram play, I've never seen him in a game to have an opinion of him yet, although I know he's got to be really good with all the attention he gets.

BTW, Brice Johnson is listed at 230lbs now. I saw the Guilford exhibition and he looks markedly bigger than last year.

The UNC buzz is that Hicks has taken the big jump in his play since last season and could challenge Meeks to start alongside Johnson. He's always looked the part of a high level player physically, and he's reportedly now a strong 240lbs and much more confident in his play, which has been his biggest problem. Some kids just mature slower than others, despite their talent. He's always seemed to be that sort of kid to me.

Welcome back, Wheat.

I think the seniors' contribution will be unappreciated at first in the shadow of the incoming talent, but they will eventually be seen as the rock/glue not unlike QC was appreciated as they cut down the nets. Yes, the Frosh were key, but IMHO, the 5th banner would not in the rafters without that senior leadership.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

As opposed to other bigs? It didn't take long Wheat to take your first dig at Coach K and bigs(as I predicted today in another thread).


Yes. It's no big secret that i didn't think Mason was used to the best of his potential. However, as I have said many times before, as long as he and coach K were happy, which they were, and he's making millions in the NBA, who cares what I think?

That was no "dig" intended at coach K. Really just the opposite. He's made Jefferson a better player each year. It was simply a comment that he is getting the best from him and I expect him to play big for Duke this season.

[MCFinARL]

I'm looking forward to seeing Ingram play, I've never seen him in a game to have an opinion of him yet, although I know he's got to be really good with all the attention he gets.

BTW, Brice Johnson is listed at 230lbs now. I saw the Guilford exhibition and he looks markedly bigger than last year.

The UNC buzz is that Hicks has taken the big jump in his play since last season and could challenge Meeks to start alongside Johnson. He's always looked the part of a high level player physically, and he's reportedly now a strong 240lbs and much more confident in his play, which has been his biggest problem. Some kids just mature slower than others, despite their talent. He's always seemed to be that sort of kid to me.

Interesting--it would be sort of ironic if Meeks, having worked hard to lose weight and become more fit, lost his spot to someone who had gained weight to get it.


Welcome back, Wheat.

I think the seniors' contribution will be unappreciated at first in the shadow of the incoming talent, but they will eventually be seen as the rock/glue not unlike QC was appreciated as they cut down the nets. Yes, the Frosh were key, but IMHO, the 5th banner would not in the rafters without that senior leadership.

This is plausible, although it remains to be seen whether this year's seniors will have the kind of crucial role that Quinn did. That being said, it may be wishful thinking, but I agree with Wheat that Amile could provide more offense this year (mostly close to the basket, but that counts), and I agree with you, NYBri, that he could play a key role on this team.

[-jk]

Interesting--it would be sort of ironic if Meeks, having worked hard to lose weight and become more fit, lost his spot to someone who had gained weight to get it...

There's weight and there's weight

-jk

[wallyman]

Yes. It's no big secret that i didn't think Mason was used to the best of his potential. However, as I have said many times before, as long as he and coach K were happy, which they were, and he's making millions in the NBA, who cares what I think?

That was no "dig" intended at coach K. Really just the opposite. He's made Jefferson a better player each year. It was simply a comment that he is getting the best from him and I expect him to play big for Duke this season.

Not to make it all about Wheat, but that was a
A horrible dig at K? Seemed like a compliment to me with a perfectly fair context. Just let the guy have his say -- and if sometimes - not all times --it's more critical than the norm for a Duke board, that's cool, too. Unless, you want him to post with trigger warnings so this meets the current definition of a "safe space"

[Billy Dat]

Unless, you want him to post with trigger warnings so this meets the current definition of a "safe space"

Microagressions add up, wallyman.

;^)

Of course, since Wheat is the minority on this board, perhaps those rules don't apply.

Wheat's return is a sign that the season is nigh!

[cato]

Wheat's return is a sign that the season is nigh!

And that the outlook for the Tarheel faithful is positive.

[Neals384]

Wheat's return is a sign that the season is nigh!

The wheat has been harvested, it must be time for some basketball!

[BD80]

...
Wheat's return is a sign that the season is nigh!

Shades of Blazing Saddles!

But shouldn't there be a bell peeling to drown out the syllable after "nigh?"

[Pghdukie]

Can anyone recall AJ's weight as a freshman? IIRC he wasn't very heavy.

[jcannon]

Can anyone recall AJ's weight as a freshman? IIRC he wasn't very heavy.


He was listed at 195 on the official roster as a Freshman. This year, listed at 225, and looks every bit of that! Amazing the way this young man has transformed his body over the last few years.