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CDu
10-31-2015, 11:00 PM
I think the refs blew that one.

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:01 PM
I think the refs blew that one.

Was there a flag thrown?

fgb
10-31-2015, 11:01 PM
who cares? tackle someone.

duke09hms
10-31-2015, 11:01 PM
Special teams cost us.

CDu
10-31-2015, 11:02 PM
Was there a flag thrown?

Yes, and a call was made. And then in the summary review the official said the block in the back was overturned.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-31-2015, 11:02 PM
who cares? tackle someone.

Come on, 200 yards in penalties and we are carping about a lack of call on a fluke play that we never should have let happen because of a missed flag?

How could we not have finished better than that?

Dr. Rosenrosen
10-31-2015, 11:02 PM
Was there a flag thrown?
Tv said there was a flag.

plus they missed the real block in the back on the Miami 15-20 yard line.

JetpackJesus
10-31-2015, 11:02 PM
I think the refs blew that one.

Especially since the replay showed an unquestionable block in the back around the Miami 15-20 yard line.

*EDIT* After reviewing the replay, the block in the back was on the Miami 17.

n8lbs
10-31-2015, 11:02 PM
#1 was also down at the 25 yard line.

fgb
10-31-2015, 11:02 PM
or just don't get cute on the kick.

JasonEvans
10-31-2015, 11:02 PM
Was there a flag thrown?

Yes. They called Miami for a block in the back on the 25 yard line. But, when they went back to review whether the laterals were legal they changed their mind about the illegal block. I'm fairly sure I have never seen that before.

One of the worst ways to lose I have ever experienced...

ChrisP
10-31-2015, 11:02 PM
I think the refs blew that one.

Well..the refs, Cutcliffe, Scottie Montgomery, a HORRIBLY shanked punt and a miss on a very makeable FG all combined to blow it. Hate to say it, but we should never have let it come down to that last crazy play.

duke09hms
10-31-2015, 11:02 PM
Ughhhhh should have just kicked it out. Make them hail mary

eddiehaskell
10-31-2015, 11:04 PM
I understand a knee down can be reviewed and they could've ruled a touchdown based on that...but they also addressed the block in the back which is a penalty. So apparently a penalty CAN be overturned. I'm still scratching my head. I'm also scratching my head as to how he was hit hard "in the side" yet went forward. :confused::confused::confused:

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-31-2015, 11:04 PM
or just don't get cute on the kick.

Didn't Pete Carroll lose a game on a similar kick a few weeks ago?

Get sneaky on the kick, get beat by a sneakier play. Hard to be too upset.

CDu
10-31-2015, 11:04 PM
Well..the refs, Cutcliffe, Scottie Montgomery, a HORRIBLY shanked punt and a miss on a very makeable FG all combined to blow it. Hate to say it, but we should never have let it come down to that last crazy play.

Oh I agree. But even still, the rules are the rules... right?

ChrisP
10-31-2015, 11:05 PM
Ughhhhh should have just kicked it out. Make them hail mary

I agree. I'm quite sure Cut learned a lesson he won't ever forget (but man, I hope we're never in THAT position again!)

subzero02
10-31-2015, 11:05 PM
The refs made the right call in terms of overturning the block in the back. You can review a flagged block in the back to see if it was actually from the side; they have been doing this all year... I have seen quite a few called blocks in the back get overturned this season. You cannot retroactively call a block in the back during a review. Good play and execution by Miami... it ain't over till it's over and reviewed for 9 minutes.

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:05 PM
Yes. They called Miami for a block in the back on the 25 yard line. But, when they went back to review whether the laterals were legal they changed their mind about the illegal block. I'm fairly sure I have never seen that before.

One of the worst ways to lose I have ever experienced...
I will agree with that. Ecstasy to Agony in 6 sec.

miramar
10-31-2015, 11:05 PM
oops it's upside down but you get the idea.

eddiehaskell
10-31-2015, 11:05 PM
Come on, 200 yards in penalties and we are carping about a lack of call on a fluke play that we never should have let happen because of a missed flag?

How could we not have finished better than that?I too felt this way, but CDu brings up a perfectly legitimate point.

Mabdul Doobakus
10-31-2015, 11:06 PM
For what it's worth, I've seen more games won on hail marys than on lateral plays.

There was at least one very clear block in the back on that play. I don't even know which they threw the flag at, but I have never seen a penalty call overturned on replay...and I don't see how you can pick up flags on replay, but you can't assess flags on replay. I don't know if that guy's knee was down or not, but this whole thing stinks.

johnb
10-31-2015, 11:06 PM
Burns was down on the 25

CDu
10-31-2015, 11:07 PM
The refs made the right call in terms of overturning the block in the back. You can review a flagged block in the back to see if it was actually from the side; they have been doing this all year... I have seen quite a few called blocks in the back get overturned this season.

No, they didn't get it right. There were two blocks in the back. One on our side of the field at the 15, then another close one at the 35 near the end.

And you can't review penalties anyway!

ChrisP
10-31-2015, 11:07 PM
Oh I agree. But even still, the rules are the rules... right?

I don't disagree but whenever I have made similar complaints here about a call in a Bball game, I'm generally told that "it never should have come down to that one play" by many posters around these parts. Not sure which sentiment is acceptable around here, to be honest.

Dr. Rosenrosen
10-31-2015, 11:07 PM
oops it's upside down but you get the idea.
That makes my stomach hurt

rsvman
10-31-2015, 11:07 PM
that was one of the most unbelievable football games I have ever seen. seriously whack.
I never saw a flag thrown on the last play, but if there was, I don't think the replay officials can change that call, can they? I honestly couldn't tell if that guy's knee was down.
pretty poor performance in the red zone during the first half that put us in a position to lose in the first place.
tough, tough loss.

WakeDevil
10-31-2015, 11:07 PM
or just don't get cute on the kick.

Maybe we can have the coach in Knoxville explain the reasoning behind it.

dukefriar
10-31-2015, 11:08 PM
And #11 runs on the field with his helmet in his hand - ie not one of the 11 on the field... Before the touchdown is scored.
12 men on the field?

duke79
10-31-2015, 11:08 PM
I couldn't believe we were actually going to win this game.......and now I can't quite figure out how we lost this game. Damn. LOL. The only consolation I can think of.......is that Miami got (somewhat) screwed on a few of those penalties during Duke's last drive. I'm not sure Duke really should have been in the lead.

I wonder too, if instead of kicking the ball down field or out of bounds, Duke should have just tried an "onside" type of kick and then swarm the ball to prevent the trick play that we saw.

arnie
10-31-2015, 11:08 PM
I understand a knee down can be reviewed and they could've ruled a touchdown based on that...but they also addressed the block in the back which is a penalty. So apparently a penalty CAN be overturned. I'm still scratching my head. I'm also scratching my head as to how he was hit hard "in the side" yet went forward. :confused::confused::confused:

Welcome to Swofford's ACC

Mabdul Doobakus
10-31-2015, 11:08 PM
I don't disagree but whenever I have made similar complaints here about a call in a Bball game, I'm generally told that "it never should have come down to that one play" by many posters around these parts. Not sure which sentiment is acceptable around here, to be honest.

I think it's a little different in football since 6 points is A LOT of points relatively speaking. 20% of Miami's output. If a ref's call could lead to 15 points in basketball, you'd have a more legitimate gripe.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-31-2015, 11:08 PM
I too felt this way, but CDu brings up a perfectly legitimate point.

Definitely legit point. Just seems like sour grapes to me. Don't know how we are spotted 200 yards in penalties and leave the oposition in a place to win at the end on a judgment call by the refs.

fgb
10-31-2015, 11:08 PM
Didn't Pete Carroll lose a game on a similar kick a few weeks ago?

Get sneaky on the kick, get beat by a sneakier play. Hard to be too upset.

truth be told, I'm a long time Seahawks fan. so, yeah. I'm used to the pain.

JetpackJesus
10-31-2015, 11:09 PM
oops it's upside down but you get the idea.

Yeah, that was the other thing I thought was clear on the replay.

CDu
10-31-2015, 11:10 PM
Definitely legit point. Just seems like sour grapes to me. Don't know how we are spotted 200 yards in penalties and leave the oposition in a place to win at the end on a judgment call by the refs.

Two different things. Yes we stunk and deserved to lose. But we shouldn't have lost in spite of that. Rules are rules.

FerryFor50
10-31-2015, 11:10 PM
Yea, this was totally from the side. :rolleyes:


https://youtu.be/f5rFo4DjYAA

downtowndevil
10-31-2015, 11:10 PM
"Dennis Hennigan call your office..."

A Mr. White is trying to reach you.

subzero02
10-31-2015, 11:11 PM
No, they didn't get it right. There were two blocks in the back. One on our side of the field at the 15, then another close one at the 35 near the end.

And you can't review penalties anyway!

You are wrong, you can review blocks in the back.

gep
10-31-2015, 11:11 PM
I think the refs blew that one.

Actually.... I think Duke blew that one (the whole game, actually)...

eddiehaskell
10-31-2015, 11:11 PM
This play will be remembered for 50 years if Duke goes on to beat UNC and Pitt. What's the point of checking the replay if they can't see the screen?

Dr. Rosenrosen
10-31-2015, 11:11 PM
Yeah, that was the other thing I thought was clear on the replay.
So I don't get how they could take that long to review it and not see that his knee was down. That screen shot is perfectly clear.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-31-2015, 11:11 PM
Well, let's stop talking about CFP possibilities and go whoop some Tar Heel butt so we can get to the ACC championship game.

CDu
10-31-2015, 11:12 PM
This play will be remembered for 50 years if Duke goes on to beat UNC and Pitt. What's the point of checking the replay if they can't see the screen?

Actually if we beat Pitt and UNC we will win the Coastal anyway. But man, I have never seen such a blatant failure of reffing.

A. The runner was down.
B. There was at least one obvious block in the back.
C. They called the block in the back.
D. They incorrectly reviewed the knee.
E. They inappropriately overturned a penalty (on top of being wrong about it).

FerryFor50
10-31-2015, 11:12 PM
truth be told, I'm a long time Seahawks fan. so, yeah. I'm used to the pain.

You can't gripe too much...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap2000000066000/Hail-Mary-for-Hawks

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-31-2015, 11:13 PM
This play will be remembered for 50 years if Duke goes on to beat UNC and Pitt. What's the point of checking the replay if they can't see the screen?

Nope. We still control our destiny best I can tell. If we beat Pitt, UNC, and UVA I believe we are still in the title match. If we beat Clemson in that game, THEN we can whine about how this game blew our chances at a national title.

fgb
10-31-2015, 11:14 PM
You can't gripe too much...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap2000000066000/Hail-Mary-for-Hawks

I'm still upset about the steelers..

FerryFor50
10-31-2015, 11:15 PM
Actually... I think Duke blew that one (the whole game, actually)...

Funny. I saw a Duke team that hung in and then took the lead, only to have it snatched away on some botched calls.

- Knee down before lateral
- 2-3 illegal blocks in the back uncalled
- penalty flag "reviewed" and picked up

HateCarolina
10-31-2015, 11:15 PM
Agree it should never have gotten to this point, but this is egregious: https://youtu.be/bhLy9d1RwcU

FerryFor50
10-31-2015, 11:16 PM
I'm still upset about the steelers..

What? The famous "illegal tackle" penalty on Hasselbeck wasn't legit? :o

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:17 PM
You are wrong, you can review blocks in the back.

Can a review be reviewed after the game is over if it was the last play of a game?

eddiehaskell
10-31-2015, 11:17 PM
Well, let's stop talking about CFP possibilities and go whoop some Tar Heel butt so we can get to the ACC championship game.Is it bad that part of me wants to get blown out by UNC? Seeing a 10-2 Duke team would somewhat make me sick considering THIS play kept us from 11-1.

Stray Gator
10-31-2015, 11:17 PM
My son and I were on the phone discussing the game after the Duke touchdown that left 5 seconds on the clock, and we both just assumed that Duke would kick the ball out of the endzone or out of bounds so that Miami would have only one desperation play from scrimmage at the 25-yard or 35-yard line. Instead, we gave Miami an opportunity for a miracle play, and they seized it to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. Now we're going to have to watch that ending replayed over and over again forever. And no one will care about whether there were any missed penalties.

DangerDevil
10-31-2015, 11:18 PM
You are wrong, you can review blocks in the back.

Can anyone provide a link to what is reviewable on replay?

I can't find one.

Duke79UNLV77
10-31-2015, 11:19 PM
Yea, this was totally from the side. :rolleyes:


https://youtu.be/f5rFo4DjYAA

Wow. I missed that one. Up to 4 clips on that play. Great time to reverse a nonreviewable play.

Too bad there wasn't a reverse camera angle on whether the knee was down.

sandinmyshoes
10-31-2015, 11:19 PM
I thought the knee was down, but I'm guessing they didn't have indisputable evidence to change the no call on the field.

I was crazy mad at what I thought was a block in the back around the 20, but looking at reviews the guy made contact from the side with his arm into our guy's stomach. It would have been closer to a hold than a block in the back.

I wonder if rather than the block in the back being overturned, if it was a ref with a better view overriding the original call. They pick flags up often enough without reviews.

It sucks, but we still control our fate. Just win the rest of them.

duke09hms
10-31-2015, 11:19 PM
We're going to be on tv for effing ever. Guess we have more similarities to Stanford than we'd like

Dr. Rosenrosen
10-31-2015, 11:19 PM
I feel like I'm in some twilight zone episode where Gordon hayward's shot actually goes in. Thank god nothing about that can be overturned.

devildeac
10-31-2015, 11:19 PM
Nope. We still control our destiny best I can tell. If we beat Pitt, UNC, and UVA I believe we are still in the title match. If we beat Clemson in that game, THEN we can whine about how this game blew our chances at a national title.

It's not whining. It's incompetent/dishonest/inappropriate/ wrong officiating:

https://twitter.com/EddieKahler/status/660650524577001472

CDu
10-31-2015, 11:21 PM
You are wrong, you can review blocks in the back.

I am pretty sure only targeting penalties are reviewable. If you can provide a link otherwise, I am happy to be corrected.

Mabdul Doobakus
10-31-2015, 11:21 PM
I don't want to hear this mess about how they didn't "review" the penalty, that they simply "conferred". I mean, the ref ANNOUNCED the penalty. He announced it and he talked about an untimed down (which I'm pretty sure made no sense, since it was an offensive penalty). Then they reviewed the play. Then they overturned the penalty. I have NEVER seen a penalty overturned after it was announced. They don't announce then confer. They confer first.

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:21 PM
I feel like I'm in some twilight zone episode where Gordon hayward's shot actually goes in. Thank god nothing about that can be overturned.

Didn't Singler get blocked in the back on that play- I doubt they would have seen that either

fgb
10-31-2015, 11:21 PM
I feel like I'm in some twilight zone episode where Gordon hayward's shot actually goes in. Thank god nothing about that can be overturned.

honesty, you actually just made it possible for me to sleep tonight.

duke79
10-31-2015, 11:22 PM
I feel like I'm in some twilight zone episode where Gordon hayward's shot actually goes in. Thank god nothing about that can be overturned.

LOL......yea......this play was pretty much the equivalent of Hayward's shot going it......but this is NOT for the national championship...thank God.

eddiehaskell
10-31-2015, 11:23 PM
Nope. We still control our destiny best I can tell. If we beat Pitt, UNC, and UVA I believe we are still in the title match. If we beat Clemson in that game, THEN we can whine about how this game blew our chances at a national title.The latter is what I'm referring to. A win over UNC/Pitt and we probably head in to the ACC championship as a top 10 team nationally at 11-1. Even with a loss we finish 11-2 (ELEVEN wins!). I'm not sure if 11-2 vs 10-3 makes a difference in bowl selection, but it sure would be nice to have the schools first 11 win season.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-31-2015, 11:23 PM
It's not whining. It's incompetent/dishonest/inappropriate/ wrong officiating:

https://twitter.com/EddieKahler/status/660650524577001472

Yeah, that's pretty egregious

CDu
10-31-2015, 11:23 PM
I thought the knee was down, but I'm guessing they didn't have indisputable evidence to change the no call on the field.

I was crazy mad at what I thought was a block in the back around the 20, but looking at reviews the guy made contact from the side with his arm into our guy's stomach. It would have been closer to a hold than a block in the back.

I wonder if rather than the block in the back being overturned, if it was a ref with a better view overriding the original call. They pick flags up often enough without reviews.

It sucks, but we still control our fate. Just win the rest of them.

There was one absolute block in the back. Indisputable. Also, I am quite sure that only targeting penalties are reviewable. So until someone can point to me where there is a rule that block in back penalties are reviewable, I stand by that they butchered that.

nmduke2001
10-31-2015, 11:23 PM
I don't understand how replay clearly missed the Miami player's knee being down. On my dvr, I caught four frames in which his knee is down and the ball is still in his hands. They must have technology at least equal to my dvr. Replay also botched the mccaffery (non)fumble.

We played poorly but those two missed replay reviews cost us the game.

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:24 PM
Yeah, that's pretty egregious

Well they clearly didn't take enough time to review the entire play.

Wander
10-31-2015, 11:25 PM
I don't understand how replay clearly missed the Miami player's knee being down. On my dvr, I caught four frames in which his knee is down and the ball is still in his hands. They must have technology at least equal to my dvr. Replay also botched the mccaffery (non)fumble.

We played poorly but those two missed replay reviews cost us the game.

I don't think replay was at fault for the fumble, actually. Don't get me wrong, it was an awful horrible BS garbage stupid unjustified horrible-again call, but that all applies to the original call, not the replay guy. All the Duke and Miami players stopped playing because it was so obvious he was down first.

DukieInKansas
10-31-2015, 11:27 PM
I don't understand how replay clearly missed the Miami player's knee being down. On my dvr, I caught four frames in which his knee is down and the ball is still in his hands. They must have technology at least equal to my dvr. Replay also botched the mccaffery (non)fumble.

We played poorly but those two missed replay reviews cost us the game.

same way the replay didn't see McCaffrey on his back before the ball left his arms so they let the fumble stand. Bad eyesight, I think.

duke79
10-31-2015, 11:27 PM
At least we'll be on the ESPN college football highlights (or lowlights, I guess) for a few days.

fgb
10-31-2015, 11:27 PM
The latter is what I'm referring to. A win over UNC/Pitt and we probably head in to the ACC championship as a top 10 team nationally at 11-1. Even with a loss we finish 11-2 (ELEVEN wins!). I'm not sure if 11-2 vs 10-3 makes a difference in bowl selection, but it sure would be nice to have the schools first 11 win season.

football is hard, and unforgiving. we have lost two games, both to teams that we probably ought to have beaten. had we won both of those, what would the conversation be?

FerryFor50
10-31-2015, 11:27 PM
There was one absolute block in the back. Indisputable. Also, I am quite sure that only targeting penalties are reviewable. So until someone can point to me where there is a rule that block in back penalties are reviewable, I stand by that they butchered that.

Allegedly, 12 men on the field is also reviewable...

https://twitter.com/BlueDevilLair/status/660657910083620866

devilnfla
10-31-2015, 11:28 PM
While we're discussing the refs replay performance tonight, let's not forget about that horrible replay review on the Max McCaffrey fumble in the 1st half when we were driving. That took probable points off the board too. He was clearly down when the ball was stripped out of his hands.

Mabdul Doobakus
10-31-2015, 11:28 PM
There was one absolute block in the back. Indisputable. Also, I am quite sure that only targeting penalties are reviewable. So until someone can point to me where there is a rule that block in back penalties are reviewable, I stand by that they butchered that.

I believe the party line is that they didn't "review" the penalty. The refs simply got together, conferred, and picked up the flag. Several minutes after announcing the penalty.

CDu
10-31-2015, 11:30 PM
Allegedly, 12 men on the field is also reviewable...

https://twitter.com/BlueDevilLair/status/660657910083620866

The sad part is that a protest could seemingly easily overturn it (as it was a game-ending play). But I suspect that the ACC/NCAA will duck that to avoid offending Vegas.

FerryFor50
10-31-2015, 11:30 PM
I believe the party line is that they didn't "review" the penalty. The refs simply got together, conferred, and picked up the flag. Several minutes after announcing the penalty.

And several minutes after getting a good look at replay reviews.

downtowndevil
10-31-2015, 11:30 PM
One INtended consequence of replay that had an UNintended impact here perhaps... the ref starring at the player whose knee was down.

Of course it was a close play in real time, but aren't refs now trained to let those "play on" and let replay sort it out? So I'm not sure his lack of a whistle can be interpreted as certainty on his part but rather that he'd rather not risk an incorrect whistle which would have ended things right or wrong.

Unfort there didn't seem to be any cameras rolling anywhere near there so they were forced to go with the no call. Even if that ref maybe thought he was down but figured replay would make the definitive call if the play ended up a scoring play.

OldPhiKap
10-31-2015, 11:30 PM
The refs said that Miami won. Next play. Go to Hell, Carolina.

Otherwise, done with this other than to congratulate the team on a great effort.

CDu
10-31-2015, 11:31 PM
I believe the party line is that they didn't "review" the penalty. The refs simply got together, conferred, and picked up the flag. Several minutes after announcing the penalty.

Which is total BS. They clearly reviewed it. The ref even said it during the review.

nmduke2001
10-31-2015, 11:31 PM
5641

Trooper
10-31-2015, 11:31 PM
There was one absolute block in the back. Indisputable. Also, I am quite sure that only targeting penalties are reviewable. So until someone can point to me where there is a rule that block in back penalties are reviewable, I stand by that they butchered that.

I am 99% certain that you can not review a block in the back. Prior to this year, targeting was the only penalty that was reviewable. They did add one other penalty to that list in 2015. The penalty is for illegal blocking on an onside kick. This is the wording I found, but I think it is a summary, not the NCAA's exact wording:

Instant Replay: Blocking During an On-Side Kick May Be Reviewed: One of the important rules about kickoffs is that the kicking team is not allowed to touch the ball until it has gone ten yards, unless a receiver touches the ball first. After it has gone ten yards, either team may get the ball. A rule that is not so well known is that the kicking team may not block until they are eligible to touch the ball. The instant replay official (IRO) has always been able to review whether the kick is touched. Starting in 2015, the IRO may also review whether the kicking team blocks before being eligible to touch the ball; if they do, it is a foul. The rules committee feels that because of the enormous potential for the kicking team to get possession of the ball as the result of blocking too early, the IRO should be able to review this play and possibly “create a foul” from the replay booth.

Regardless, this play was not an onside kick -- it was just a squib kick. Based on that, I don't think the refs can review the block in the back. That said, I can't fathom the ACC would actually uphold any sort of appeal even if it was the last play of the game.

Mabdul Doobakus
10-31-2015, 11:32 PM
Allegedly, 12 men on the field is also reviewable...

https://twitter.com/BlueDevilLair/status/660657910083620866

Pretty amazing.

pamtar
10-31-2015, 11:32 PM
just saw this

https://mobile.twitter.com/EddieKahler/status/660650524577001472

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:33 PM
The sad part is that a protest could seemingly easily overturn it (as it was a game-ending play). But I suspect that the ACC/NCAA will duck that to avoid offending Vegas.

Can you protest a game?

CDu
10-31-2015, 11:34 PM
Can you protest a game?

Yeah I don't see why not. But I suspect the results don't usually get overturned.

FerryFor50
10-31-2015, 11:34 PM
Can you protest a game?

Seeing as how the NCAA can strip wins from programs for cheating, I can't imagine why they couldn't do the same for poor officiating. :cool:

tobers
10-31-2015, 11:35 PM
https://youtu.be/90lZzfLA14Q

FerryFor50
10-31-2015, 11:36 PM
https://youtu.be/90lZzfLA14Q

LOL

That's not even in dispute there. Obviously down.

It's like they weren't even reviewing that part of the play and instead focused on something they weren't supposed to review at all...

TruBlu
10-31-2015, 11:36 PM
Can you protest a game?

My stomach is doing some serious protesting.

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:37 PM
Yeah I don't see why not. But I suspect the results don't usually get overturned.

True but this was a game ending play. Has that ever happened?

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-31-2015, 11:37 PM
The sad part is that a protest could seemingly easily overturn it (as it was a game-ending play). But I suspect that the ACC/NCAA will duck that to avoid offending Vegas.

We were heavy favorites - Vegas had nothing riding on that last play.

They won't overturn, but it will have nothing to do with gambling. More likely, to do with precedent.

Next play

InSpades
10-31-2015, 11:38 PM
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR15.pdf

Relevant section:
Limitations on Reviewable Plays
ARTICLE 6. No other plays or officiating decisions are reviewable. However,
the replay official may correct egregious errors, including those involving the
game clock, whether or not a play is reviewable. This excludes fouls that are
not specifically reviewable (Reviewable fouls: Rules 12-3-2-c and -d, 12-3-4-b
and -e, and 12-3-5-a).

So it seems to me that this specifically details which fouls are reviewable (and none of them are block in the back).

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:39 PM
We were heavy favorites - Vegas had nothing riding on that last play.

They won't overturn, but it will have nothing to do with gambling. More likely, to do with precedent.

Next play

A least the ACC can say the refs blew it and Duke should have won. This will be analyzed a lot over the next few days and clearly the refs blew it.

devildeac
10-31-2015, 11:40 PM
just saw this

https://mobile.twitter.com/EddieKahler/status/660650524577001472

Refs reviewed that. Said it wasn't a block in the back:mad:. They need to be fired. Not fined. Not reprimanded. Not suspended. Fired. So many errors on that play.

CDu
10-31-2015, 11:40 PM
We were heavy favorites - Vegas had nothing riding on that last play.

They won't overturn, but it will have nothing to do with gambling. More likely, to do with precedent.

Next play

There are pick'em wagers in Vegas too, no? So money would still change hands, no?

Seems like a bigger precedent problem would be allowing refs to start overturning penalties on replay willy-nilly.

eddiehaskell
10-31-2015, 11:41 PM
OH MY GAWD - this play just keeps getting better. 12 men on the field, illegal block, a knee down. It's like the ACC just put a mob hit on Duke. Despite having eyes we are told there's nothing to see here!!!!!!!! Did some big roller have a lot of money on this game?

Mabdul Doobakus
10-31-2015, 11:43 PM
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR15.pdf

Relevant section:
Limitations on Reviewable Plays
ARTICLE 6. No other plays or officiating decisions are reviewable. However,
the replay official may correct egregious errors, including those involving the
game clock, whether or not a play is reviewable. This excludes fouls that are
not specifically reviewable (Reviewable fouls: Rules 12-3-2-c and -d, 12-3-4-b
and -e, and 12-3-5-a).

So it seems to me that this specifically details which fouls are reviewable (and none of them are block in the back).

Again, they're saying they simply picked up the flag. They did not technically overturn the penalty. I find this explanation to be utter nonsense, but that's what they're saying.

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:43 PM
OH MY GAWD - this play just keeps getting better. 12 men on the field, illegal block, a knee down. It's like the ACC just put a mob hit on Duke. Despite having eyes we are told there's nothing to see here!!!!!!!! Did some big roller have a lot of money on this game?

There was a reason that crazy play worked- and it wasn't because Duke didn't tackle- they apparently did.

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:44 PM
Again, they're saying they simply picked up the flag. They did not technically overturn the penalty. I find this explanation to be utter nonsense, but that's what they're saying.

I guess I wonder what they did review for 10 minutes.

devildeac
10-31-2015, 11:44 PM
https://youtu.be/90lZzfLA14Q

Wonder what replay the refs were watching.

CDu
10-31-2015, 11:45 PM
Again, they're saying they simply picked up the flag. They did not technically overturn the penalty. I find this explanation to be utter nonsense, but that's what they're saying.

If that is what they are saying (and I am not convinced that is true based on the official's call of the review), that is such a chicken s--- thing to do. Because they pretty clearly reviewed it.

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:46 PM
Wonder what replay the refs were watching.

It is impossible to see that if your eyes are closed.

Mabdul Doobakus
10-31-2015, 11:46 PM
There is indisputable evidence that we got hosed on that last play. Miami fans will counter that there were some dubious penalties on that last Duke drive, and maybe so. But that last play was reviewed for several minutes, and somehow they missed ALL of this.

Mabdul Doobakus
10-31-2015, 11:47 PM
I guess I wonder what they did review for 10 minutes.

Well, according to the TV, they were reviewing the knee mainly, and all the laterals. Of course, they got the knee wrong, and they failed to review the extra players on the field for Miami.

DukieInKansas
10-31-2015, 11:48 PM
Seeing as how the NCAA can strip wins from programs for cheating, I can't imagine why they couldn't do the same for poor officiating. :cool:

Did the refs win this game? :D

FerryFor50
10-31-2015, 11:49 PM
Well, according to the TV, they were reviewing the knee mainly, and all the laterals. Of course, they got the knee wrong, and they failed to review the extra players on the field for Miami.

And during the replay, the replay they showed focused on the laterals and if there were blocks in the back. Never really focused on if the knee was down (at least not in Durham/Raleigh broadcast)

JetpackJesus
10-31-2015, 11:49 PM
Allegedly, 12 men on the field is also reviewable...

https://twitter.com/BlueDevilLair/status/660657910083620866

I'm going off Wikipedia here since I'm no longer in college, but here's what can be reviewed, penalty-wise:


targetting to make sure it was, in fact, targetting (like a flagrant 1 in Bball).


Pass Interference to determine if the ball was tipped before the contact since everyone is fair game at that point.


Too many men on the field, and it can be retroactively called based on the replay.


Passing, punting, or handing the ball off beyond the line of scrimmage.

The statement up thread that blocks in the back are reviewable is patently false. Even assuming arguendo that you can uncall the block in the back on the replay (I do think the one they reviewed at Duke 25 was probably from the side), then you should also be able to retroactively call the block in the back at the 17.

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:49 PM
Well, according to the TV, they were reviewing the knee mainly, and all the laterals. Of course, they got the knee wrong, and they failed to review the extra players on the field for Miami.

I wonder what replay they saw regarding the knee to say it was not down.

CDu
10-31-2015, 11:50 PM
And during the replay, the replay they showed focused on the laterals and if there were blocks in the back. Never really focused on if the knee was down (at least not in Durham/Raleigh broadcast)

I don't think the refs are limited to the TV broadcast replay. But still, everything about how they handled it was wrong.

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:51 PM
Did the refs win this game? :D

Duke was fortunate to win the game with 6 sec to go after trailing all game and Miami was fortunate to win the game with 0 secs to go. The tie goes to the last fortunate team I guess.

FerryFor50
10-31-2015, 11:51 PM
I don't think the refs are limited to the TV broadcast replay. But still, everything about how they handled it was wrong.

Right but my point was, viewers weren't being shown the play that was being reviewed. We were getting a misdirection.

devildeac
10-31-2015, 11:51 PM
I wonder what replay they saw regarding the knee to say it was not down.

They must have been replaying the NCSU-Clemson game cuz it sure as hell wasn't Duke-Miami.

duke09hms
10-31-2015, 11:51 PM
Wonder if the ACC will have the balls to come out say the refs messed up and DUKE SHOULD HAVE WON THE GAME.

eddiehaskell
10-31-2015, 11:52 PM
There is indisputable evidence that we got hosed on that last play. Miami fans will counter that there were some dubious penalties on that last Duke drive, and maybe so. But that last play was reviewed for several minutes, and somehow they missed ALL of this.I pray that someone on national TV will point out some of the ref errors instead of just praising Miami for such a great play. It WAS great, but great in the way that hitting a 3/4 court game winner is great even though the player had a finger on the ball just as time expires.

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:53 PM
Wonder if the ACC will have the balls to come out say the refs messed up and DUKE SHOULD HAVE WON THE GAME.

In these days of social media and instant analysis- it will be hard to duck this one.

DukieInKansas
10-31-2015, 11:53 PM
Wonder what replay the refs were watching.

World Series?

downtowndevil
10-31-2015, 11:53 PM
Anyone know a good source on Twitter, etc to get comments from Cut, KWhite, etc from press conf, interviews, statements?

I'm sure it's all class but just curious how they discuss "that".

FerryFor50
10-31-2015, 11:54 PM
I pray that someone on national TV will point out some of the ref errors instead of just praising Miami for such a great play. It WAS great, but great in the way that hitting a 3/4 court game winner is great even though the player had a finger on the ball just as time expires.

I think this is an appropriate comparison to the play:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ccNkksrfls

devildeac
10-31-2015, 11:54 PM
My daughter thinks the refs were not really refs but were unc students dressed up in striped shirts for Halloween:rolleyes:.

FerryFor50
10-31-2015, 11:55 PM
Anyone know a good source on Twitter, etc to get comments from Cut, KWhite, etc from press conf, interviews, statements?

I'm sure it's all class but just curious how they discuss "that".

https://twitter.com/stevewisemanNC/status/660665190749483008

https://twitter.com/BlueDevilLair/status/660660751993040896

devildeac
10-31-2015, 11:55 PM
Anyone know a good source on Twitter, etc to get comments from Cut, KWhite, etc from press conf, interviews, statements?

I'm sure it's all class but just curious how they discuss "that".

My daughter listened to Cut on the post game show and described him as politely disgusted.

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:56 PM
I pray that someone on national TV will point out some of the ref errors instead of just praising Miami for such a great play. It WAS great, but great in the way that hitting a 3/4 court game winner is great even though the player had a finger on the ball just as time expires.

Don't agree with that analogy- more like winning a game on a last second play where you take 5 steps to the hoop without dribbling, go out of bounds and then in again, push a defender out of the way and score after the clock.

Atldukie79
10-31-2015, 11:56 PM
Yes to all the complaints about the last play and McCaffery's "fumble...horrible reffing.

But I also noticed that as the last play developed, the Duke players on the near side of the field stopped running and jogged, either from fatigue or belief that the play was about over.

Mabdul Doobakus
10-31-2015, 11:56 PM
@stevewisemanNC
Cutcliffe said Miami runner was down early in game-winning return. Said ACC office has some answers to deliver.



--------------



You tell em, Cut.

duke09hms
10-31-2015, 11:58 PM
Yes to all the complaints about the last play and McCaffery's "fumble...horrible reffing.

But I also noticed that as the last play developed, the Duke players on the near side of the field stopped running and jogged, either from fatigue or belief that the play was about over.

Don't know if that's true, but ughhhhhh I hope not. AND also these were the same refs that helped us to the tune of 45 yds on the game-winning drive.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-31-2015, 11:58 PM
https://twitter.com/stevewisemanNC/status/660665190749483008

https://twitter.com/BlueDevilLair/status/660660751993040896

No minced words there.

dukelifer
10-31-2015, 11:59 PM
@stevewisemanNC
Cutcliffe said Miami runner was down early in game-winning return. Said ACC office has some answers to deliver.



--------------



You tell em, Cut.

And he would be right.

dukelifer
11-01-2015, 12:01 AM
No minced words there.

The league will probably fine coach Cut for telling the truth.

CatDevil
11-01-2015, 12:01 AM
Don't agree with that analogy- more like winning a game on a last second play where you take 5 steps to the hoop, go out of bounds and then in again, push a defender out of the way and score after the clock.


What he said...

eddiehaskell
11-01-2015, 12:02 AM
Don't agree with that analogy- more like winning a game on a last second play where you take 5 steps to the hoop, go out of bounds and then in again, push a defender out of the way and score after the clock.Haha...MJ comes out of the stands, Marcus Paige hands him the ball, he tomahawk slams, the refs review and say the basket counts. UNC wins.

TruBlu
11-01-2015, 12:04 AM
Anyone know a good source on Twitter, etc to get comments from Cut, KWhite, etc from press conf, interviews, statements?

I'm sure it's all class but just curious how they discuss "that".

I listened to the post game radio interview with coach Cut as I was driving away from the game. He basically said that the refs might use the excuse (his words) that they "picked up" the flag. Was upset that he got no explanation from refs, that the play will be replayed and reviewed by many people in days to come. That the team will have to get over the loss and move on. As a side note, on the first play from scrimmage, one of these esteemed refs lined up on the wrong side of the field.

dukelifer
11-01-2015, 12:04 AM
Haha...MJ comes out of the stands, Marcus Paige hands him the ball, he tomahawk slams, the refs review and say the basket counts. UNC wins.

All after Roy calls a time out that he doesn't have.

dukelifer
11-01-2015, 12:05 AM
I listened to the post game radio interview with coach Cut as I was driving away from the game. He basically said that the refs might use the excuse (his words) that they "picked up" the flag. Was upset that he got no explanation from refs, that the play will be replayed and reviewed by many people in days to come. That the team will have to get over the loss and move on. As a side note, on the first play from scrimmage, one of these esteemed refs lined up on the wrong side of the field.

It is Halloween, afterall - strange things happen.

mattman91
11-01-2015, 12:05 AM
All after Roy calls a time out that he doesn't have.

When did Roy learn how to call a time out?

Mabdul Doobakus
11-01-2015, 12:06 AM
@darrenrovell 3m3 minutes ago
Based on the noise surrounding the Miami lateral play, I suggest the school holds off on printing T-shirts or copyrighting a phrase.
-----------------

Seems to be insinuating the play could be overturned, but we all know that's not happening.

dukelifer
11-01-2015, 12:07 AM
When did Roy learn how to call a time out?

Every once in a while- strange things happen in a game. Did I ever tell you about that time that Duke football scored with 6 seconds to go and ...

Mabdul Doobakus
11-01-2015, 12:12 AM
‏@MikePereira 10m10 minutes ago
Wow. I have been here at Fox looking at the Duke game and Duke got tricked on Hollween. No way that is a touchdown. I will explain.

------------------------

He's that officiating expert you always hear on the FOX telecasts.

devildeac
11-01-2015, 12:13 AM
Lots of Duke haters in the twitterverse. There are other words to describe them but the filters wankerize them anyway.

devildeac
11-01-2015, 12:14 AM
‏@MikePereira 10m10 minutes ago
Wow. I have been here at Fox looking at the Duke game and Duke got tricked on Hollween. No way that is a touchdown. I will explain.

------------------------

He's that officiating expert you always hear on the FOX telecasts.

Wonder if the acc will fine him...

FerryFor50
11-01-2015, 12:15 AM
Lots of Duke haters on the planet. There are other words to describe them but the filters wankerize them anyway.

Fixed it for you.

devildeac
11-01-2015, 12:16 AM
Fixed it for you.

Well, if you want to take it that far, should have changed it to "universe.":p

nmduke2001
11-01-2015, 12:17 AM
Former NFL head of officials and current Fox NFL rules specialist, Mike Pereira is calling out the refs on Twitter.


@MikePereira: Word is that crew made the decision but that is bogus as the referee called over the officials after going back to talk to replay a 2nd time


@MikePereira: More importantly, they used replay to decide to pick up the flag for the block at the 25. Replay is not allowed to reveiw a call for that.

@MikePereira: Wow. I have been here at Fox looking at the Duke game and Duke got tricked on Hollween. No way that is a touchdown. I will explain.

DangerDevil
11-01-2015, 12:17 AM
http://www.streakingthelawn.com/2015/10/31/9652828/why-the-officials-botched-the-ending-of-miami-at-duke

Further explanation from Pereira of how we got hosed.

Also states that the outcome of the game can't/won't be changed according to Adam Rowe.

devildeac
11-01-2015, 12:18 AM
I don't think I've been this pissed off since Boozer was fouled:mad:.

Mabdul Doobakus
11-01-2015, 12:18 AM
Mike Pereira giving voice to many of the things said here, killing the officials.

https://twitter.com/MikePereira

EDIT: Guess everyone beat me to it.

duke09hms
11-01-2015, 12:19 AM
Mike Pereira giving voice to many of the things said here, killing the officials.

https://twitter.com/MikePereira

Sooooo any chance of an overturn? I know there's no precedent, but the ending of this game was without precedent. Stanford-Cal "band is on the field" play was entirely penalty-free right?

Mabdul Doobakus
11-01-2015, 12:21 AM
Pereira does explain that the Miami bench guys being on the field was a non-issue. Which seems strange to me. But...he is the expert.

dukelifer
11-01-2015, 12:22 AM
Pereira does explain that the Miami bench guys being on the field was a non-issue. Which seems strange to me. But...he is the expert.

Was he on the field during the play or after- I could not tell

Mabdul Doobakus
11-01-2015, 12:22 AM
Sooooo any chance of an overturn? I know there's no precedent, but the ending of this game was without precedent. Stanford-Cal "band is on the field" play was entirely penalty-free right?

Has never happened. Will never happen. Can of worms.

Wander
11-01-2015, 12:23 AM
OH MY GAWD - this play just keeps getting better. 12 men on the field, illegal block, a knee down.

Duke gets all the calls.

Mabdul Doobakus
11-01-2015, 12:24 AM
Was he on the field during the play or after- I could not tell

During the play...well before Miami player crossed the goalline. Pereira says it's a dead ball foul and so irrelevant because the game was over. But that seems off to me, unless they distinguish between running on the field and running on the field and interfering with the play.

DU82
11-01-2015, 12:24 AM
Was he on the field during the play or after- I could not tell

He ran on the field when the guy with the ball was on about the five.

kraiggers
11-01-2015, 12:27 AM
Sooooo any chance of an overturn? I know there's no precedent, but the ending of this game was without precedent. Stanford-Cal "band is on the field" play was entirely penalty-free right?

That's the real question. I would be hugely surprised, as the ACC is overwhelmingly likely to protect their officials publicly rather than eat crow and credit the proper winners of the game. This will hurt for a LONG time.

DangerDevil
11-01-2015, 12:28 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/RealMikeWilbon?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Es erp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Wilbon chimes in, wish he had the final say:


Michael Wilbon
@RealMikeWilbon

Really, the ACC should actually go further and reverse the "outcome" of the game. The Miami ball carrier was clearly and obviously down...


Michael Wilbon
@RealMikeWilbon

The entire officiating unit in Miami-Duke should be suspended for the next three games for their incompetence in Durham tonight...
9:17 PM - 31 Oct 2015

Mabdul Doobakus
11-01-2015, 12:28 AM
Wow, now Wilbon is getting in on the action.

eddiehaskell
11-01-2015, 12:30 AM
I wonder if the refs were afraid of Miami players beating them to death on the field? Maybe they wanted to prevent a brawl from breaking out?:mad:

TruBlu
11-01-2015, 12:31 AM
The good(?) news is that tonight we all get an extra hour to not sleep very well. Ugh.

rsvman
11-01-2015, 12:32 AM
it's nice that Pereira and Wilbon are coming into the fray on Duke's side, but ultimately it doesn't really matter. the outcome of the game is never going to be changed, no matter how many talking heads say the refs messed up.

kraiggers
11-01-2015, 12:32 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/RealMikeWilbon?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Es erp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Michael Wilbon
@RealMikeWilbon

Really, the ACC should actually go further and reverse the "outcome" of the game. The Miami ball carrier was clearly and obviously down...


Michael Wilbon
@RealMikeWilbon

The entire officiating unit in Miami-Duke should be suspended for the next three games for their incompetence in Durham tonight...
9:17 PM - 31 Oct 2015

Good for Wilbon. Hope others in media have the guts to say the same thing. Only public shame has even the slightest chance for an ACC correction. But even then I doubt it.

I would go farther - I suggest ACC should *fire* all the officials involved AND overturn the game.

pamtar
11-01-2015, 12:33 AM
Another angle.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSsgowbUkAAvd80.jpg

Mabdul Doobakus
11-01-2015, 12:33 AM
it's nice that Pereira and Wilbon are coming into the fray on Duke's side, but ultimately it doesn't really matter. the outcome of the game is never going to be changed, no matter how many talking heads say the refs messed up.

No, but if we're going to whine about the refs, it's nice to have some objective-ish outsiders backing us up.

DangerDevil
11-01-2015, 12:35 AM
Add Rob Lowe to the mix:

https://mobile.twitter.com/RobLowe/status/660674643347513344?p=v


Rob Lowe
@RobLowe

He was down AND an extra player ran on the field. Those officials should be banned immediately. #Duke pic.twitter.com/lj6npJqOMI
9:28 PM - 31 Oct 2015

Twitter
By: Rob Lowe @RobLowe

devildeac
11-01-2015, 12:36 AM
No, but if we're going to whine about the refs, it's nice to have some objective-ish outsiders backing us up.

Videos, still shots and rule books are good, too;).

Mabdul Doobakus
11-01-2015, 12:36 AM
Add Rob Lowe to the mix:

https://mobile.twitter.com/RobLowe/status/660674643347513344?p=v


Rob Lowe
@RobLowe

He was down AND an extra player ran on the field. Those officials should be banned immediately. #Duke pic.twitter.com/lj6npJqOMI
9:28 PM - 31 Oct 2015

Twitter
By: Rob Lowe @RobLowe

I really hope that's DirecTV Rob Lowe.

oldnavy
11-01-2015, 12:39 AM
I don't want to hear this mess about how they didn't "review" the penalty, that they simply "conferred". I mean, the ref ANNOUNCED the penalty. He announced it and he talked about an untimed down (which I'm pretty sure made no sense, since it was an offensive penalty). Then they reviewed the play. Then they overturned the penalty. I have NEVER seen a penalty overturned after it was announced. They don't announce then confer. They confer first.

Amen. They clearly announced the penalty which meant game over. What is there to review at that point? No touch down no time who cares about a knee down or forward lateral? These refs need to be suspended foe incompetence. There was no reason whatsoever to go to replay once the penalty was announced.

bluedevilsince72
11-01-2015, 12:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl60bzvJnEk

downtowndevil
11-01-2015, 12:40 AM
Well so much for an extra hour of sleep tonight!

dukelifer
11-01-2015, 12:42 AM
In the end- the knee down is the more critical issue. It means that Duke did make a tackle and the refs did not correctly determine the knee is down. Duke made they play to end the game and the refs blew it- even after review. The rest is a technicality. It will be interesting to see how the league reacts and more importantly Duke. We want them to be angry when they play UNC. Winning that game trumps this one.

devildeac
11-01-2015, 12:42 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl60bzvJnEk

Looks like a damned good tackle to me.

dukelifer
11-01-2015, 12:45 AM
That's the real question. I would be hugely surprised, as the ACC is overwhelmingly likely to protect their officials publicly rather than eat crow and credit the proper winners of the game. This will hurt for a LONG time.

I expect that Miami will do the honorable thing and award the game back to Duke upon review ;)

eddiehaskell
11-01-2015, 12:47 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl60bzvJnEkWOW, IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE. The ball was in his hand for 3-4 frames. I've seen some of these video replays in other games that seem impossible for me to call, but this is just egregious. It's seems impossible that 5-6 refs can view this video and make several wrong calls. It makes you wonder - if they can't get this right after 10 minutes of review than what else are they missing? FIRE THEM.

BigWayne
11-01-2015, 01:03 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl60bzvJnEk

If ever a call can be reversed after the game is over, this is the one.

duke09hms
11-01-2015, 01:05 AM
I'm rooting so hard for Stanford now, want to stick it to all these big football state schools with a big ol' beatdown by an academic elite.

Duke1986
11-01-2015, 01:06 AM
WOW, IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE. The ball was in his hand for 3-4 frames. I've seen some of these video replays in other games that seem impossible for me to call, but this is just egregious. It's seems impossible that 5-6 refs can view this video and make several wrong calls. It makes you wonder - if they can't get this right after 10 minutes of review than what else are they missing? FIRE THEM.
The problem is 5 or 6 refs didn't view the video. It was some clown in the replay booth.

El_Diablo
11-01-2015, 01:11 AM
Is it bad that part of me wants to get blown out by UNC?

Yes, it's bad, and you should feel bad.

dragoneye776
11-01-2015, 01:19 AM
From the Facebook page:

jswofford@theacc.org

eddiehaskell
11-01-2015, 01:29 AM
The problem is 5 or 6 refs didn't view the video. It was some clown in the replay booth.Seems like a staffing problem if the ACC has one person making game ending calls like this. And wouldn't it be on the shoulders of the refs on-field for even making the decision to have him look at an "unreviewable" play they flagged? It's one thing to lose playing badly, but it's another to lose by having refs create new rules on the fly.

eddiehaskell
11-01-2015, 01:34 AM
Yes, it's bad, and you should feel bad.Probably just caught up in the disappointment of having something like this happen in the midst of a potentially epic season. Sure, potentially game changing bad calls can sometimes go your way, but this one was under review for 10 minutes and the rule book was thrown out the window.

jimsumner
11-01-2015, 01:10 AM
Reading the thread because it's not like I'm getting to sleep anytime soon.

Nice to see some objective confirmation of what I saw and what I wrote. I was afraid I was harsh but I may have been a bit measured, all things considered.

I've written a lot of post-gamer accounts on multiple sports and I've never once blamed the outcome on the officials. I may have thought it but I never wrote it.

But this was just egregious, off the charts bad. At the very least, these officials need to be suspended and not for a single game. And I umpired baseball for awhile and am generally sympathetic to these folks. But this isn't high-school baseball, this is a Power-Five football game and these guys were just not up to the moment.

IMO.

It was almost like they were so busy trying to keep up with the ball that they forgot that they actually need to adjudicate game.

And if you're going to go the replay route, then you'd darn well better get all the angles and get it right. Missing the calls on the field is bad enough but missing after a lengthy review simply defies rational comprehension.

A couple of comments on the other parts. A few people suggested that Duke should have kicked into the end zone and forced a Hail Mary. But Miami wouldn't have thrown a Hail Mary, they would have gone the multiple lateral option after a short pass, albeit with fewer running options but more blocking options.

And you can't blame Duke for not tackling when they're being blocked in the back.

Lulu
11-01-2015, 01:19 AM
WTH. I've only read pg 9 of the post-game comments here, and just finished the game being it was on the DVR, but since when can they review a block-in-the-back penalty? And if they're going to go that far then why only review the "block under question" as the ref put it and not pick up the other illegal blocks in the same play? I've never seen this one before. Rules-be-d****d.

Of course who doesn't love that during the 10 minutes they reviewed the play they never actually looked at the down-by-contact replay. Guess I'd better tune in to Sportscenter.

Hindsight being what it is, kick the ball out of bounds from now on. In the minute that play took I forgot how annoyed I was we were kicking to Miami in that situation.

Lulu
11-01-2015, 01:43 AM
I'm not wanting to enter the fray, but elsewhere all I see is people complaining that the ball never crossed the goal line on that last TD for Duke. Anyone have or come across a photo or replay of that one showing the ball breaking the plane????

FireOgilvie
11-01-2015, 01:49 AM
I'm not wanting to enter the fray, but elsewhere all I see is people complaining that the ball never crossed the goal line on that last TD for Duke. Anyone have or come across a photo or replay of that one showing the ball breaking the plane????

The official was standing right there on that one, although they were so bad I wouldn't be surprised if they blew that one too. McCaffrey's "fumble," multiple pass interference no-calls. Unbelievable.

BigWayne
11-01-2015, 02:02 AM
It was pretty clear on ESPNU, but even clearer here:

5644

jimsumner
11-01-2015, 02:02 AM
A final thought before I try to get some shut-eye.

I have been thinking about this. I think none of the officials wanted to make a call that would end the game, either knee down or throw a flag, because they assumed that the play would run out of steam and they wouldn't have to do their jobs, make a tough call and draw attention to themselves.

But that didn't happen. And when it didn't, they couldn't go back and make it right.

But I confess I have no idea what went on in the replay booth and communication with the officials. But it seems like a complicated serious of tormented rationalizations again designed to actually not do their jobs. So, let the call stand.

Easy way out, right?

Of course, these folks have stepped in a world of unpleasant stuff. Officiating is tough work and I get that and I respect that. But Cut correctly calls this big-boy football and big-boy football requires big-boy officials. This crew met the moment and was found wanting in the balance.

duke09hms
11-01-2015, 02:07 AM
A final thought before I try to get some shut-eye.

I have been thinking about this. I think none of the officials wanted to make a call that would end the game, either knee down or throw a flag, because they assumed that the play would run out of steam and they wouldn't have to do their jobs, make a tough call and draw attention to themselves.

But that didn't happen. And when it didn't, they couldn't go back and make it right.

But I confess I have no idea what went on in the replay booth and communication with the officials. But it seems like a complicated serious of tormented rationalizations again designed to actually do their jobs. So, let the call stand.

Easy way out, right?

Of course, these folks have stepped in a world of unpleasant stuff. Officiating is tough work and I get that and I respect that. But Cut correctly calls this big-boy football and big-boy football requires big-boy officials. This crew met the moment and was found wanting in the balance.

Still can't sleep this off. I'm so torn about it. We played like crap all game, so I feel like we didn't deserve to win. Yet there we were, an unlikely comeback 2 TDs in <3 minutes, and then the damn officials did not do their job.

Yes, we shouldn't have been in that position, but we WERE, and then got screwed.

I REALLY hope Cut can get the team's minds right for UNC. Maybe get K to give them a talk on Next Play, and how he got the bball team to overcome that. If we don't get over this loss, we are going to get steamrolled by UNC.

Oh and maybe have whoever is calling the offense the last two drives to do that the whole game.

JBDuke
11-01-2015, 02:13 AM
For those saying Duke "didn't deserve to win" this game, take a look at the final statistics:

First downs - Duke 34, Miami 21
Total yards - Duke 440, Miami 391
Turnovers - Duke 1, Miami 2
Penalty Yards - Duke 41, Miami 194

Yes, Duke made some uncharacteristic mistakes, and yes, Miami moved the ball well at times. But the numbers don't lie. Duke played well enough to win this one.

brevity
11-01-2015, 02:19 AM
Not sure why we need 3 postgame threads for the Duke-Miami game, but this is the only one that matters.

This is a particularly tough loss for many of us because Duke men's basketball is our point of reference, and that team is not normally on the losing end of a buzzer-beater. There have been close losses and frustrating losses, and even more important losses, but nothing quite like this.

I was tempted to skip my amateur poll predictions this week, but decided to be consistent. To add insult to insult, Week 9 was a dream scenario for UNC. The AP Top 25 saw three teams lose, and all near the bottom: #21 Temple, #22 Duke, #23 Pittsburgh. Maybe Temple stays ranked, but Duke and Pitt drop out, and voters will suddenly wonder why UNC isn't ranked. 7-1, alone atop the ACC Coastal, winners of 7 straight. They lost so long ago that the team that beat them no longer has the same head coach. Currently #27, they should leapfrog #26 Texas A&M and enter the polls as the highest newcomer, around #23. Maybe #22 if voters feel like putting them ahead of idle #25 Mississippi State.

Duke is currently #18 in the Coaches Poll, so they may not necessarily slip out. If you have to suffer a 2nd loss, this is not the worst time to do it. I'd give them less than 50-50 odds at being ranked in the first CFP poll, but a great chance in the second poll if they use their anger constructively next week as a sudden underdog against a newly ranked Hatful of Heels.

duke09hms
11-01-2015, 02:21 AM
For those saying Duke "didn't deserve to win" this game, take a look at the final statistics:

First downs - Duke 34, Miami 21
Total yards - Duke 440, Miami 391
Turnovers - Duke 1, Miami 2
Penalty Yards - Duke 41, Miami 194

Yes, Duke made some uncharacteristic mistakes, and yes, Miami moved the ball well at times. But the numbers don't lie. Duke played well enough to win this one.

We didn't play well enough at the right times. Until the last 2 drives Miami had won every key play. Those stats say it all really. To be up 3 when the other team gives you 194 free yds is not good enough. Should be a blowout.

We played down to their level, leaving us susceptible to a bullI'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. jobbing by the refs.

Wander
11-01-2015, 02:24 AM
For those saying Duke "didn't deserve to win" this game, take a look at the final statistics:

First downs - Duke 34, Miami 21
Total yards - Duke 440, Miami 391
Turnovers - Duke 1, Miami 2
Penalty Yards - Duke 41, Miami 194

Yes, Duke made some uncharacteristic mistakes, and yes, Miami moved the ball well at times. But the numbers don't lie. Duke played well enough to win this one.

It's pretty clear to me Duke is a better team than Miami. I think it's usually lazy when fans complain about play calling - but this was probably the worst play calling in the Cutcliffe era. It's the reason we were in such a hole most of the game despite being the better team. And it would be the main topic of conversation if not for the crazy last two touchdowns of the game.

I don't have a problem going for it on 4th down, but pulling Sirk to do it in that first drive was stupid. Kicking a field goal with 9 seconds left in the half instead of trying to get some more yards or take a shot at the end zone was stupid. The fake punt was stupid - again, not the general idea of a fake punt, but the specific play. Did our coaches consult with the Indianapolis Colts staff before the game or something? A few other debatable ones like not running on 3rd and 3 when you know we're going to go for it on 4th, but those three were horrible and you don't need the benefit of hindsight to see that. Obviously there's no guarantee what would have happened with smarter play calling, but it's not too unrealistic to see 10 points left on the field in those plays.

Lulu
11-01-2015, 02:29 AM
The only solace is that for 57 minutes, officiating excepted, Duke didn't deserve to win this game (based on how Duke was performing, not comparing their performance to Miami's).

You have to wonder if this was the final play in the NC how it would all pan out after the fact. Of course this wasn't the NC. Other teams have gotten raw deals, too. But WTH is wrong with the replay booth? That's an actual question, not a rhetorical, because someone in an office somewhere needs to be asking. Is it really only one person reviewing the video and deciding what they want to look at from what angles? I can barely imagine how even 1 person with a modern monitor and replay equipment could err like this, particularly when admitting the knee-down was what was under review and taking SO long to review the play. Not to be too harsh, but that guy can't be allowed back behind a monitor, right?

This last play is very distracting though, because I was not at all fond of the play-calling during this one. It was as though we thought we should surprise them with a pass every time running the ball was the obvious smart thing to do, and it did not work. Forget the stupid trick plays we called. In other Duke football seasons you'd call these plays desperate shots at a win by trying to steal some points at unsuspecting moments; this season it feels more like overconfidence and very, very unnecessary.

Wander
11-01-2015, 02:38 AM
As horrible as this was, the silver lining here is that this doesn't have a gigantic effect on our ACC championship hopes.

We almost certainly win the division if we beat UNC and Pitt and we probably don't win the division if we lose one of those games.

That statement is true regardless of us beating Miami, losing to Miami, or whatever you'd call that thing that just happened. Obviously, you can come up with specific situations where the loss does matter, but we do still control our own destiny.

devildeac
11-01-2015, 05:32 AM
For those saying Duke "didn't deserve to win" this game, take a look at the final statistics:

First downs - Duke 34, Miami 21
Total yards - Duke 440, Miami 391
Turnovers - Duke 1, Miami 2
Penalty Yards - Duke 41, Miami 194

Yes, Duke made some uncharacteristic mistakes, and yes, Miami moved the ball well at times. But the numbers don't lie. Duke played well enough to win this one.

And even our 1 turnover was highly suspect/questionable. Or, perhaps even more correctly, another wrong call.

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-01-2015, 06:10 AM
A final thought before I try to get some shut-eye.

I have been thinking about this. I think none of the officials wanted to make a call that would end the game, either knee down or throw a flag, because they assumed that the play would run out of steam and they wouldn't have to do their jobs, make a tough call and draw attention to themselves.

But that didn't happen. And when it didn't, they couldn't go back and make it right.

But I confess I have no idea what went on in the replay booth and communication with the officials. But it seems like a complicated serious of tormented rationalizations again designed to actually not do their jobs. So, let the call stand.

Easy way out, right?

Of course, these folks have stepped in a world of unpleasant stuff. Officiating is tough work and I get that and I respect that. But Cut correctly calls this big-boy football and big-boy football requires big-boy officials. This crew met the moment and was found wanting in the balance.
The knee down was the "easy way out" -- it was so clear, and that type of reversal happens all the time. It did not have to be complicated. At all. They could have avoided all the questions about blocking and penalty flags. But for some unexplainable reason, they chose to turn this into a circus.

Devilwin
11-01-2015, 06:17 AM
Gonna be hard to get over this one. Sure, we were bad for much of the game, true. But to snatch apparent victory at the end, only to see it go for naught by this (for lack of nicer words) "incompetent" officiating crew, really sucks. Really really sucks.
But now comes an improved UNC team. If we play against them like we did against Miami, it won't be close. Cut must rally the troops.....

devildeac
11-01-2015, 06:21 AM
https://twitter.com/stevewisemanNC/status/660665190749483008

https://twitter.com/BlueDevilLair/status/660660751993040896

Interesting twitter response from the playcaller to Adam Rowe:

"Can they do that? Change the outcome of a game? Adam Rowe added,
Playcaller @badnocall
Just watch: because that was the last play of the game, and a rule misapplied, Duke is going to appeal this to the ACC office...and win."

I hold little faith/hope that the acc office will do that, but it's interesting to read that response from the playcaller who has posted here in the past (assuming it's the same person).

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-01-2015, 06:56 AM
A final thought before I try to get some shut-eye.

I have been thinking about this. I think none of the officials wanted to make a call that would end the game, either knee down or throw a flag, because they assumed that the play would run out of steam and they wouldn't have to do their jobs, make a tough call and draw attention to themselves.

This is the best reasoning I have heard. I think that rather than make a potentially controversial call, they figures UM would make an egregious forward pass or Duke would flippin make a tackle so it wouldn't matter. By the time there's one dude streaking down the sideline with a guy coming off the bench and no helmet, the knee down and blocks in the back were 70 yards away and nearly a full minute earlier.

Having said all that, anyone expecting some sort of satisfaction from the league will be disappointed. Best case scenario is some sort of blanket statement regarding procedures and communication from refs moving forward. No way on earth does anyone step in to make things "right " - for better for worse, that's not how sports work.

I remember when I was a wee lad seeing some sort of horrible call in a Duke/UNC game and being completely apoplectic. The next morning I was simply floored that there weren't pages of articles about the injustice I saw. It didn't even warrant a mention in the Charlotte Observer.

Yup, it sucks, but if we get any form of retribution beyond a carefully crafted non-apology, I will eat my cyberhat.

devilnfla
11-01-2015, 07:35 AM
Well after sleeping on it last night, I'm still pissed. No debating the fact that Duke was screwed on that last play and there were several opportunities for any one official to do the right thing, including the incompetent/blind official in the replay booth.

Now that we have to move forward, I started reflecting on the entire game last night. Is it just me, or was anyone else fed up last night with Sirk missing on so many deep throws down the sideline? Even his overthrow to Shaq on that wheel route (which took out the security guard) was horribly overthrown. At some point he's going to have to be better or teams will stack the box and kill our running game. He's been very inaccurate all year on those throws hitting a very low percentage.

Also, hope I never have to listen to a Nascar guy call our game again. He's as big an idiot as the ACC officials.

dukelifer
11-01-2015, 07:42 AM
Well after sleeping on it last night, I'm still pissed. No debating the fact that Duke was screwed on that last play and there were several opportunities for any one official to do the right thing, including the incompetent/blind official in the replay booth.

Now that we have to move forward, I started reflecting on the entire game last night. Is it just me, or was anyone else fed up last night with Sirk missing on so many deep throws down the sideline? Even his overthrow to Shaq on that wheel route (which took out the security guard) was horribly overthrown. At some point he's going to have to be better or teams will stack the box and kill our running game. He's been very inaccurate all year on those throws hitting a very low percentage.

Also, hope I never have to listen to a Nascar guy call our game again. He's as big an idiot as the ACC officials.
Fed up with Sirk or wish that he was more accurate? His strengths are his legs and his ability to play under pressure- but Tom Brady he is not. He has very few miles as a college quarterback and has work to do - but he has handled himself well this year in critical moments.

royalblue
11-01-2015, 07:55 AM
If they will not overturn the game result can Duke get a few rain checks for the uncch game?

OldPhiKap
11-01-2015, 08:22 AM
Just watched Cut's post_game press conference on Goduke.com. Very proud to have him as our coach.

Next play.

6th Man
11-01-2015, 08:24 AM
Not only was the knee down, the Miami player's leg starts to go flat on the ground before he releases it. That's once you get past a block in the block (not the one from the side) and a Miami player with helmet off rushing the field before Miami scores.

devildeac
11-01-2015, 08:25 AM
Well after sleeping on it last night, I'm still pissed. No debating the fact that Duke was screwed on that last play and there were several opportunities for any one official to do the right thing, including the incompetent/blind official in the replay booth.

Now that we have to move forward, I started reflecting on the entire game last night. Is it just me, or was anyone else fed up last night with Sirk missing on so many deep throws down the sideline? Even his overthrow to Shaq on that wheel route (which took out the security guard) was horribly overthrown. At some point he's going to have to be better or teams will stack the box and kill our running game. He's been very inaccurate all year on those throws hitting a very low percentage.

Also, hope I never have to listen to a Nascar guy call our game again. He's as big an idiot as the ACC officials.

Sirks's stats last PM:

C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT QBR
Thomas Sirk 31/52 258 5.0 1 0 57.7

I'm not a stats/FB guy, but to my untrained/uneducated eyes/mind, those stats look respectable. Yea, he was not the better QB on the field last PM, but he's growing/learning/maturing/making better decisions (and led the ACC in total offense before last night, IIRC) and I'd guess most of us are satisfied with his progress, as that position was one of the big question marks starting the season, along with WR and the DL.

(Sorry about the mal-alignment with the numbers/categories but I did space and backspace and delete blank areas to try and have the columns/lines correct but apparently, I'm not much of a computer guy either:o.)

freshmanjs
11-01-2015, 08:27 AM
Next play.

It's easy to say that as a fan. Very hard to do for a team. Even Cut himself said last week that he had a prior team that lost a multi-OT game and never recovered. If Duke does somehow rally and beat UNC on Saturday, that will be very impressive indeed. It's a lot to ask though. This is as devastating of a loss as a team can possibly have.

gumbomoop
11-01-2015, 08:29 AM
As horrible as this was, the silver lining here is that this doesn't have a gigantic effect on our ACC championship hopes.

We almost certainly win the division if we beat UNC and Pitt and we probably don't win the division if we lose one of those games.

That statement is true regardless of us beating Miami, losing to Miami, or whatever you'd call that thing that just happened. Obviously, you can come up with specific situations where the loss does matter, but we do still control our own destiny.

This is it. Eyes on the prize.

Calamorallo
11-01-2015, 08:29 AM
I got very little sleep last night. There were already significant issues with officiating, but that final play contained several of the most egregious errors I have ever seen.

This being said, I am still very proud of this football team. The fact that we are one poor call away from beating Miami two years in a row, plus all else that has been accomplished shows how far we've come under Cut.

freshmanjs
11-01-2015, 08:31 AM
The fact that we are one poor call away from beating Miami two years in a row, plus all else that has been accomplished shows how far we've come under Cut.

Duke didn't beat Miami last year.

Calamorallo
11-01-2015, 08:32 AM
Duke didn't beat Miami last year.

Eep... sorry, I can't believe I was thinking of the game 2 years ago.

CDu
11-01-2015, 08:34 AM
Sirks's stats last PM:

C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT QBR
Thomas Sirk 31/52 258 5.0 1 0 57.7

I'm not a stats/FB guy, but to my untrained/uneducated eyes/mind, those stats look respectable. Yea, he was not the better QB on the field last PM, but he's growing/learning/maturing/making better decisions (and led the ACC in total offense before last night, IIRC) and I'd guess most of us are satisfied with his progress, as that position was one of the big question marks starting the season, along with WR and the DL.

(Sorry about the mal-alignment with the numbers/categories but I did space and backspace and delete blank areas to try and have the columns/lines correct but apparently, I'm not much of a computer guy either:o.)

The 5 yards per completion and 57.7 QBR are fairly bad. And those stats were inflated by two possessions against a prevent defense played by one of the most poorly organized defenses I have ever seen.

Credit to Sirk for getting it done at the end (he was terrific in the final drive, though again some of that was Miami's passive prevent D), but for 55 minutes his performance was far from respectable. His accuracy problems and struggles reading the defense are a huge part of why we were where we were in the final minutes.

OldPhiKap
11-01-2015, 08:34 AM
It's easy to say that as a fan. Very hard to do for a team. Even Cut himself said last week that he had a prior team that lost a multi-OT game and never recovered. If Duke does somehow rally and beat UNC on Saturday, that will be very impressive indeed. It's a lot to ask though. This is as devastating of a loss as a team can possibly have.

True. But as Cut said in his post-game press conference, we are moving on starting today because you have no choice. Regular Sunday meeting today. Not taking questions about this game at the Tuesday PC. We play Carolina Saturday, we will be ready because we have to be ready. Etc.

Yes, it is difficult. Miami had to refocus on a bunch of difficult things this week. And did it well.

Having said that, Cut said this was harder to take than the seven overtime loss at Ole Miss back in the day. And he was obviously still pissed that the officials never explained anything to him, he heard the pa announcement like we did and then the refs just ran off the field.

CDu
11-01-2015, 08:37 AM
It's easy to say that as a fan. Very hard to do for a team. Even Cut himself said last week that he had a prior team that lost a multi-OT game and never recovered. If Duke does somehow rally and beat UNC on Saturday, that will be very impressive indeed. It's a lot to ask though. This is as devastating of a loss as a team can possibly have.

Yeah, this has the potential to be a backbreaker or to galvanize the team. Could go either way, but it is almost certainly not going to be a "shake it off" type of game. As emotional as we as fans get, the players are 10 times moreso, and the game itself requires a level of emotional exertion that cannot be easily understood.

grossbus
11-01-2015, 08:40 AM
One question: was Cash Money on the field for that last play? I sure would have had him out there.

Troublemaker
11-01-2015, 08:42 AM
There are pick'em wagers in Vegas too, no? So money would still change hands, no?

Correct.

Furthermore, the over/under for the game steadily moved from 50 to 52 throughout Saturday (http://www.covers.com/odds/linehistory.aspx?eventId=48794&sport=NCF).

Anyone who bet the over at 51, 51.5, and 52 was extremely happy with the ending. Anyone who bet the under at those numbers was devastated by the ending.

CDu
11-01-2015, 08:44 AM
One question: was Cash Money on the field for that last play? I sure would have had him out there.

No, and this is one of the arguments in favor of kicking it out of bounds. Yes, they will still run the lateral play. But they will do so with five slow linemen, and they will do so against better tacklers in our first-team defense.

cruxer
11-01-2015, 08:49 AM
It's easy to say that as a fan. Very hard to do for a team. Even Cut himself said last week that he had a prior team that lost a multi-OT game and never recovered. If Duke does somehow rally and beat UNC on Saturday, that will be very impressive indeed. It's a lot to ask though. This is as devastating of a loss as a team can possibly have.

As connected as we feel to the team, who cares if we move on? I for one will dwell on this until a win gets the taste out of my mouth. It's critical for the team to move on to the next play as they have game preparation for a rival week. As a fan, my only preparation is to figure out where I'll be sipping beers at game time.

PS: To top off my night my Mets blew the lead about 10m after Duke. No officials assistance required.

PPS: I may re-watch Duke/Wisconsin today to aid the "get that taste out" process.

devilnfla
11-01-2015, 08:55 AM
Sirks's stats last PM:

C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT QBR
Thomas Sirk 31/52 258 5.0 1 0 57.7

I'm not a stats/FB guy, but to my untrained/uneducated eyes/mind, those stats look respectable. Yea, he was not the better QB on the field last PM, but he's growing/learning/maturing/making better decisions (and led the ACC in total offense before last night, IIRC) and I'd guess most of us are satisfied with his progress, as that position was one of the big question marks starting the season, along with WR and the DL.

(Sorry about the mal-alignment with the numbers/categories but I did space and backspace and delete blank areas to try and have the columns/lines correct but apparently, I'm not much of a computer guy either:o.)

Yeah, not just talking about last night and his stats. Really the whole season he has not been good on deep throws. Seems to consistently overthrow wide open receivers. I agree he's much improved and better than I was expecting. He just seems to lack touch on his passes, especially the long ball. Kind of reminds me a little of Cam Newton in the fact that he can run and has a strong arm, but lacks touch.

Also, he seemed to have a lack of awareness around the clock running on Duke's last play. Was anyone else screaming at them to snap the ball?

devilnfla
11-01-2015, 08:58 AM
The 5 yards per completion and 57.7 QBR are fairly bad. And those stats were inflated by two possessions against a prevent defense played by one of the most poorly organized defenses I have ever seen.

Credit to Sirk for getting it done at the end (he was terrific in the final drive, though again some of that was Miami's passive prevent D), but for 55 minutes his performance was far from respectable. His accuracy problems and struggles reading the defense are a huge part of why we were where we were in the final minutes.

Agree totally CDu. Cut seemed very unhappy with him on multiple occasions last night.

Troublemaker
11-01-2015, 09:01 AM
No, and this is one of the arguments in favor of kicking it out of bounds. Yes, they will still run the lateral play. But they will do so with five slow linemen, and they will do so against better tacklers in our first-team defense.

Sorry to interrupt the college football talk, CDu, but are you watching Federer/Nadal on ESPN3? They're playing against each other at the Swiss Indoors Final.

davekay1971
11-01-2015, 09:03 AM
I want to apologize. I was the reason for the loss.

Here's how it went:

I miss the entire first quarter trick-or-treating with my daughters. 0-0. I turn it on a few minutes into the 2nd quarter in time to see Miami score a touchdown. Have to run again, give the girls a bath. Turn it on in time to see Monday boot the worst muffed punt of his career (probably including his pee-wee football days). Watch through the 2nd Miami touchdown. Have to run again, get the girls to bed. Check the score right before half, in time to see Duke miss a 38 yard field goal. Have to run, my three year old is not going to sleep easily. Turn it on again in the third quarter to see Duke had caught up to make it 14-12. I see the Miami drive to make it 21-12. I turn it off. By now I am convinced that I am putting the whammy on Duke every time I watch the game, because they seem to be doing alright when I'm not watching. But I'm addicted like it's crack, so I can't stay away. Turn it on again in time to see Duke go for it, and not make it, on 4th down at the 50 yard line.

Now I know, for a fact, beyond any doubt, that it's me. I see that Hunt for Red October is on FX. Good movie. I switch over to that. But what's happening in the Duke game? Not going to watch. Not going to...

I check the Duke game. Duke ball, down by 5, deep in Miami territory, less than a minute left. Can they do it? I have to turn the channel back to Red October, right? I can't curse them again. But, what if I miss it? I turned off the Gone in 54 Seconds game with 54 seconds left in disgust, and I still haven't forgiven myself for my lack of faith. I'll watch...

And Duke scores the touchdown! My wife, having watched her Wolfpack go down to Clemson in a crazy affair, is leaping off the couch in excitement. I can't believe it! I'm not the whammy after all!

I have a sense of misgiving before the kickoff. Maybe I should turn it off. But Duke did score the winning touchdown with me watching. I watch the kickoff.

It's all my fault. I am sorry.

CDu
11-01-2015, 09:05 AM
Sorry to interrupt the college football talk, CDu, but are you watching Federer/Nadal on ESPN3? They're playing against each other at the Swiss Indoors Final.

I am now!

OldPhiKap
11-01-2015, 09:10 AM
I want to apologize. I was the reason for the loss.

Here's how it went:

I miss the entire first quarter trick-or-treating with my daughters. 0-0. I turn it on a few minutes into the 2nd quarter in time to see Miami score a touchdown. Have to run again, give the girls a bath. Turn it on in time to see Monday boot the worst muffed punt of his career (probably including his pee-wee football days). Watch through the 2nd Miami touchdown. Have to run again, get the girls to bed. Check the score right before half, in time to see Duke miss a 38 yard field goal. Have to run, my three year old is not going to sleep easily. Turn it on again in the third quarter to see Duke had caught up to make it 14-12. I see the Miami drive to make it 21-12. I turn it off. By now I am convinced that I am putting the whammy on Duke every time I watch the game, because they seem to be doing alright when I'm not watching. But I'm addicted like it's crack, so I can't stay away. Turn it on again in time to see Duke go for it, and not make it, on 4th down at the 50 yard line.

Now I know, for a fact, beyond any doubt, that it's me. I see that Hunt for Red October is on FX. Good movie. I switch over to that. But what's happening in the Duke game? Not going to watch. Not going to...

I check the Duke game. Duke ball, down by 5, deep in Miami territory, less than a minute left. Can they do it? I have to turn the channel back to Red October, right? I can't curse them again. But, what if I miss it? I turned off the Gone in 54 Seconds game with 54 seconds left in disgust, and I still haven't forgiven myself for my lack of faith. I'll watch...

And Duke scores the touchdown! My wife, having watched her Wolfpack go down to Clemson in a crazy affair, is leaping off the couch in excitement. I can't believe it! I'm not the whammy after all!

I have a sense of misgiving before the kickoff. Maybe I should turn it off. But Duke did score the winning touchdown with me watching. I watch the kickoff.

It's all my fault. I am sorry.

Just FYI -- I am not above convenient and irrational scapegoating.

duke09hms
11-01-2015, 09:18 AM
Interesting twitter response from the playcaller to Adam Rowe:

"Can they do that? Change the outcome of a game? Adam Rowe added,
Playcaller @badnocall
Just watch: because that was the last play of the game, and a rule misapplied, Duke is going to appeal this to the ACC office...and win."

I hold little faith/hope that the acc office will do that, but it's interesting to read that response from the playcaller who has posted here in the past (assuming it's the same person).

Don't tease me :(

Tripping William
11-01-2015, 09:21 AM
I'm guessing the replay officials spent that seemed-like-eternity looking for the trombone player.

davekay1971
11-01-2015, 09:21 AM
Just FYI -- I am not above convenient and irrational scapegoating.

Bring the torches and pitchforks. I won't fight back.

OldPhiKap
11-01-2015, 09:30 AM
Don't tease me :(

Send lawyers, guns and money . . . .

duke09hms
11-01-2015, 09:40 AM
Amid this brouhaha over the last play and awesome 2 drives, Cutcliffe and the offensive coaching staff are getting off easy on the abysmal job they did for 90% of last night.

dukelifer
11-01-2015, 09:46 AM
Yeah, this has the potential to be a backbreaker or to galvanize the team. Could go either way, but it is almost certainly not going to be a "shake it off" type of game. As emotional as we as fans get, the players are 10 times moreso, and the game itself requires a level of emotional exertion that cannot be easily understood.

Duke will need to focus their anger as the underdogs going into Chapel Hill. The team who can maintain their emotional edge will win. The only consolation from last night is that Duke did not totally screw up the kickoff. They made the play and tackled the opponent. The refs just did not see it in real time or after 8 minutes of watching the tape - for reasons we may never know.

JNort
11-01-2015, 09:49 AM
Not gonna bother reading through these comments, I have a feeling I know what's being said. Just thought I'd share a professional opinion.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/acc/2015/11/01/miami-duke-officiating-finish-mike-pereira/74986708/

fisheyes
11-01-2015, 09:51 AM
I can find only one game in history where the outcome of the game was reversed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Down_Game_(1940)

In this game, played in 1940, Cornell was accidenctally awarded a "5th down" and went on to win on that play. After the game, the error became apparent and Corell offered to forfeit the game to Dartmouth and they accepted.

What is the likelihood that Miami does the same? :(

In 1990 a similar "5th down" play occured in the Colorado-Missouri game. CO went on to win that game and the AP National Championship. They did not offer to forfeit the game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Down_Game_(1990)

Anybody know of any other games???

This hurts.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-01-2015, 09:56 AM
Yeah, not just talking about last night and his stats. Really the whole season he has not been good on deep throws. Seems to consistently overthrow wide open receivers. I agree he's much improved and better than I was expecting. He just seems to lack touch on his passes, especially the long ball. Kind of reminds me a little of Cam Newton in the fact that he can run and has a strong arm, but lacks touch.

Also, he seemed to have a lack of awareness around the clock running on Duke's last play. Was anyone else screaming at them to snap the ball?

Well, if he had taken six more seconds to snap, this whole thread doesn't exist

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
11-01-2015, 09:58 AM
I can find only one game in history where the outcome of the game was reversed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Down_Game_(1940)

In this game, played in 1940, Cornell was accidenctally awarded a "5th down" and went on to win on that play. After the game, the error became apparent and Corell offered to forfeit the game to Dartmouth and they accepted.

What is the likelihood that Miami does the same? :(

In 1990 a similar "5th down" play occured in the Colorado-Missouri game. CO went on to win that game and the AP National Championship. They did not offer to forfeit the game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Down_Game_(1990)

Anybody know of any other games???

This hurts.

It isn't happening and the sooner we all accept that the better. It isn't done.

RepoMan
11-01-2015, 10:01 AM
Couldn't sleep well after that ending. The emotional swing was simply too much (especially combined with an overabundance of mini candy bar intake).

If that game was against UNC and we lost our shot at the Coastal Crown, I think it would be hard to overcome.

As it stands, I honestly think it could galvanize the team and help ensure laser focus on our next game, which is the key to the rest of the season.

While I would love a reversal, I really think this could have a positive impact on our mental state heading into the Carolina game.

OldPhiKap
11-01-2015, 10:05 AM
I
It isn't happening and the sooner we all accept that the better. It isn't done.

I bet John Swofford sends us a polite note, though.


Couldn't sleep well after that ending. The emotional swing was simply too much (especially combined with an overabundance of mini candy bar intake).

If that game was against UNC and we lost our shot at the Coastal Crown, I think it would be hard to overcome.

As it stands, I honestly think it could galvanize the team and help ensure laser focus on our next game, which is the key to the rest of the season.

While I would love a reversal, I really think this could have a positive impact on our mental state heading into the Carolina game.

Agreed. They should be pissed at themselves, pissed at the refs, pissed at the whole wide world. But no one can take the Coastal from them if they focus and win out. Time to see what we are made of. (Or, see that of which we are made -- too stilted for a rallying cry though)

mbird30
11-01-2015, 10:06 AM
Couldn't sleep well after that ending. The emotional swing was simply too much (especially combined with an overabundance of mini candy bar intake).

If that game was against UNC and we lost our shot at the Coastal Crown, I think it would be hard to overcome.

As it stands, I honestly think it could galvanize the team and help ensure laser focus on our next game, which is the key to the rest of the season.

While I would love a reversal, I really think this could have a positive impact on our mental state heading into the Carolina game.

I agree that this could help our mental state vs unc, but it could also hurt us if we aren't careful

jimsumner
11-01-2015, 10:22 AM
I believe it was Adlai Stevenson who responded to one of his losses to Ike with the quip that he slept like a baby-woke up every 30 minutes crying.

Or maybe he just replayed the whole sorry mess in his mind.

Some things you can't un-see.

I'm going to try to pick my words carefully here, both because I'm usually inclined to do that sort of thing and also because I have personal and professional relationships with the ACC.

Then again, being a 65-year-old cancer survivor might give me some wiggle room

So, I'll try to tip-toe through the minefield.

Here's what I think we should have heard last night.

"After further review, it was determined that a Miami player's knee was on the ground, with the ball in his possession and the clock at zero. This ends the game. The call of touchdown on the field is reversed. Game over."

Simple succinct, informative. And accurate.

Here's what I don't want to hear from the ACC office. A PR-sourced, run-it-by-legal statement referencing bad camera angles, lack of cameras or inconclusive evidence. If the internet can have numerous still and freeze-frame shots of this play minutes after the game, then there's no excuse for the officials not having the evidence.

And the evidence seems pretty conclusive to me. He was down.

Was it close? Sure. But any umpire can call a pitch in the dirt a ball. You earn your stripes with the ones a half-inch off the plate. Do your job and make a tough call.

I would hope to see the ACC Man Up and admit the obvious, that a cluster of bad calls both on the field and in the booth resulted in an outcome in which one team lost a game it should have won and the other won a game it should have lost.

And discipline some folks. A season-ending suspension seems like a minimum to me and I don't think termination is unreasonable. It was that bad.

Any chance this goes any further? In most circumstances, you can't go back and do it all over again, because everybody has gone home. But any of several proper calls would have ended the game, so the equation is different. But I'm not sure there's a mechanism in place and even if there were nothing would happen without the commissioner sticking out his neck out and this is a commissioner who doesn't stick out his neck.

CDu
11-01-2015, 10:34 AM
I believe it was Adlai Stevenson who responded to one of his losses to Ike with the quip that he slept like a baby-woke up every 30 minutes crying.

Or maybe he just replayed the whole sorry mess in his mind.

Some things you can't un-see.

I'm going to try to pick my words carefully here, both because I'm usually inclined to do that sort of thing and also because I have personal and professional relationships with the ACC.

Then again, being a 65-year-old cancer survivor might give me some wiggle room

So, I'll try to tip-toe through the minefield.

Here's what I think we should have heard last night.

"After further review, it was determined that a Miami player's knee was on the ground, with the ball in his possession and the clock at zero. This ends the game. The call of touchdown on the field is reversed. Game over."

Simple succinct, informative. And accurate.

Here's what I don't want to hear from the ACC office. A PR-sourced, run-it-by-legal statement referencing bad camera angles, lack of cameras or inconclusive evidence. If the internet can have numerous still and freeze-frame shots of this play minutes after the game, then there's no excuse for the officials not having the evidence.

And the evidence seems pretty conclusive to me. He was down.

Was it close? Sure. But any umpire can call a pitch in the dirt a ball. You earn your stripes with the ones a half-inch off the plate. Do your job and make a tough call.

I would hope to see the ACC Man Up and admit the obvious, that a cluster of bad calls both on the field and in the booth resulted in an outcome in which one team lost a game it should have won and the other won a game it should have lost.

And discipline some folks. A season-ending suspension seems like a minimum to me and I don't think termination is unreasonable. It was that bad.

Any chance this goes any further? In most circumstances, you can't go back and do it all over again, because everybody has gone home. But any of several proper calls would have ended the game, so the equation is different. But I'm not sure there's a mechanism in place and even if there were nothing would happen without the commissioner sticking out his neck out and this is a commissioner who doesn't stick out his neck.

I agree with this 100%. And would add that while I too suspect there is no chance of an overturn, I would like to hear that that crew (including the replay official) be docked their pay for that game and suspended for the year for incompetence. That also probably won't happen, but seems only fair.

killerleft
11-01-2015, 10:34 AM
This is the best reasoning I have heard. I think that rather than make a potentially controversial call, they figures UM would make an egregious forward pass or Duke would flippin make a tackle so it wouldn't matter. By the time there's one dude streaking down the sideline with a guy coming off the bench and no helmet, the knee down and blocks in the back were 70 yards away and nearly a full minute earlier.

Having said all that, anyone expecting some sort of satisfaction from the league will be disappointed. Best case scenario is some sort of blanket statement regarding procedures and communication from refs moving forward. No way on earth does anyone step in to make things "right " - for better for worse, that's not how sports work.

I remember when I was a wee lad seeing some sort of horrible call in a Duke/UNC game and being completely apoplectic. The next morning I was simply floored that there weren't pages of articles about the injustice I saw. It didn't even warrant a mention in the Charlotte Observer.

Yup, it sucks, but if we get any form of retribution beyond a carefully crafted non-apology, I will eat my cyberhat.

I see your problem. You were reading the Carolina Observer.:) But I think you're right, the hose job will stand.:(

Edit: And I agree with jimsumner's post quoted by CDu above. I don't get the folks on this board who are saying we just should have tacked the guy on the return when we did, in fact, tackle the guy on the return. We deserved the win.

devildeac
11-01-2015, 10:39 AM
I'm guessing the replay officials spent that seemed-like-eternity looking for the trombone player.

PackMan97 beat me to it upthread as he mentioned something about a bank account in Switzerland...

:rolleyes:

OldPhiKap
11-01-2015, 10:44 AM
PackMan97 beat me to it upthread as he mentioned something about a bank account in Switzerland...

:rolleyes:

Spectre!

GGLC
11-01-2015, 10:51 AM
The three people on the ESPN college football recap show this morning (Jason Sehorn and two guys I don't recognize because I don't usually watch these shows) were unanimous that the refs made egregious mistakes with respect to the knee being down, the blocks in the back, and reviewing an unreviewable penalty call.

Pretty unbelievable how clearly the refs screwed this one up.

devildeac
11-01-2015, 10:52 AM
I believe it was Adlai Stevenson who responded to one of his losses to Ike with the quip that he slept like a baby-woke up every 30 minutes crying.

Or maybe he just replayed the whole sorry mess in his mind.

Some things you can't un-see.

I'm going to try to pick my words carefully here, both because I'm usually inclined to do that sort of thing and also because I have personal and professional relationships with the ACC.

Then again, being a 65-year-old cancer survivor might give me some wiggle room

So, I'll try to tip-toe through the minefield.

Here's what I think we should have heard last night.

"After further review, it was determined that a Miami player's knee was on the ground, with the ball in his possession and the clock at zero. This ends the game. The call of touchdown on the field is reversed. Game over."

Simple succinct, informative. And accurate.

Here's what I don't want to hear from the ACC office. A PR-sourced, run-it-by-legal statement referencing bad camera angles, lack of cameras or inconclusive evidence. If the internet can have numerous still and freeze-frame shots of this play minutes after the game, then there's no excuse for the officials not having the evidence.

And the evidence seems pretty conclusive to me. He was down.

Was it close? Sure. But any umpire can call a pitch in the dirt a ball. You earn your stripes with the ones a half-inch off the plate. Do your job and make a tough call.

I would hope to see the ACC Man Up and admit the obvious, that a cluster of bad calls both on the field and in the booth resulted in an outcome in which one team lost a game it should have won and the other won a game it should have lost.

And discipline some folks. A season-ending suspension seems like a minimum to me and I don't think termination is unreasonable. It was that bad.

Any chance this goes any further? In most circumstances, you can't go back and do it all over again, because everybody has gone home. But any of several proper calls would have ended the game, so the equation is different. But I'm not sure there's a mechanism in place and even if there were nothing would happen without the commissioner sticking out his neck out and this is a commissioner who doesn't stick out his neck.

Thanks, Jim. Rational, measured and accurate and much like you posted at ~1AM and 2AM in the early aftermath. Interesting thoughts about the discipline. I posted similar thoughts (as Wilbon tweeted-don't know whether that's good or bad:o) in the wee hours this AM.

oldnavy
11-01-2015, 10:55 AM
I want to second (OPK?) who simply said that we are so lucky to have Cut as head coach.

He CLEARLY was hacked off, REALLY hacked off and emotional, but he was 1000% class the whole post game.

I grow to revere the man more each week!

martydoesntfoul
11-01-2015, 11:06 AM
I believe it was Adlai Stevenson who responded to one of his losses to Ike with the quip that he slept like a baby-woke up every 30 minutes crying.

Or maybe he just replayed the whole sorry mess in his mind.

Some things you can't un-see.

I'm going to try to pick my words carefully here, both because I'm usually inclined to do that sort of thing and also because I have personal and professional relationships with the ACC.

Then again, being a 65-year-old cancer survivor might give me some wiggle room

So, I'll try to tip-toe through the minefield.

Here's what I think we should have heard last night.

"After further review, it was determined that a Miami player's knee was on the ground, with the ball in his possession and the clock at zero. This ends the game. The call of touchdown on the field is reversed. Game over."

Simple succinct, informative. And accurate.

Here's what I don't want to hear from the ACC office. A PR-sourced, run-it-by-legal statement referencing bad camera angles, lack of cameras or inconclusive evidence. If the internet can have numerous still and freeze-frame shots of this play minutes after the game, then there's no excuse for the officials not having the evidence.

And the evidence seems pretty conclusive to me. He was down.

Was it close? Sure. But any umpire can call a pitch in the dirt a ball. You earn your stripes with the ones a half-inch off the plate. Do your job and make a tough call.

I would hope to see the ACC Man Up and admit the obvious, that a cluster of bad calls both on the field and in the booth resulted in an outcome in which one team lost a game it should have won and the other won a game it should have lost.

And discipline some folks. A season-ending suspension seems like a minimum to me and I don't think termination is unreasonable. It was that bad.

Any chance this goes any further? In most circumstances, you can't go back and do it all over again, because everybody has gone home. But any of several proper calls would have ended the game, so the equation is different. But I'm not sure there's a mechanism in place and even if there were nothing would happen without the commissioner sticking out his neck out and this is a commissioner who doesn't stick out his neck.

Jim: You're the best. Thanks for this.

Furniture
11-01-2015, 11:45 AM
My thoughts:
On the knee down. Yes it's obvious from the photo that the runner was down but if I was a ref reviewing the video I don't think it was clear enough to change the non ruling on the field. Therefore the refs are correct.
On the Duke touchdown I don't think Sirk crossed the line but once again the video review doesnt show anything clear enough to change the ruling on the field.
In regards the flag since it's not reviewable, it can't be changed or ignored. The refs got it wrong....
Next play!

devildeac
11-01-2015, 11:47 AM
A Cut quote from the Sporting News article:

"A penalty is not a reviewable play," Duke coach David Cutcliffe said after the game. "They may hide behind the fact that you can pick up a flag if another official steps in. I didn’t hear that that occurred at any point. I thought it was poorly handled in that regard. The lack of communication was really disappointing."

devildeac
11-01-2015, 11:58 AM
Yea, this was totally from the side. :rolleyes:


https://youtu.be/f5rFo4DjYAA

Well, upon further review, the first one was from the side---as a blow to our guy's helmet. Rule question here: are blows to the head/helmet legitimate blocks or unsportsmanlike penalties? Serious question. Not that it matters any at this point, of course, simply a learning process for me.

Lulu
11-01-2015, 12:03 PM
So a reversal of the outcome is unprecedented and unimaginable. We all understand that as much as no one likes it and it's unfair.

I think what kills everyone, including perhaps a team, emotionally, is the whole blanket of secrecy with no accountability of the officiating crew. Add the fact there may be never be even an admission of error or apology from the ACC that Duke should have been awarded the game after that final play. We know what the ACC will likely say: 1) The discussion about picking up the flag occurred much earlier and amid the commotion the officials just forgot to inform everyone watching the game (oddly without conferring immediately after the play of course); 2) The knee being down was close, and even though the knee was down with his hand still on the ball his control of the ball had already been surrendered; 3) Any other illegal blocks were missed on the field and of course cannot be reviewed. (Also, the 12th man on the field is irrelevant because they weren't going for any extra points anyway. That does merit consideration of a rule change, though; it's got to be a fine line whether a 12th man does or does not affect the actions of a defender in any given situation. It was too late to stop the TD here in any case.)

So why on earth is the secrecy of the officials during these reviews tolerated? They don't even have to explain themselves after the fact. How many days do they get to contrive their story about when they they decided to pick up the flag, if we ever even get a story? When do we get to hear from the actual booth review official regarding what he was possibly looking at? It's nonsense that the world cannot get an immediate answer if not tune in the actual discussions that took place. Is is willingly accepted as fact that the officials are just often going to discuss bending the rules and it's best if no one else is privy to this? If they don't want to be questioned then find a different job. Why not let the world see exactly what the review official is looking at in real time?

A believable explanation, if not a an honest one, could make a world of difference in the aftermath of this. Plus there has to be some degree of accountability. We know, and everyone will just accept, that a load of c**p is all that will be handed out with at best some kind of "it is unfortunate such a great game between such great teams had to end in such a not-great fashion and we will work to be less not-great in these situations in the future" statement. There's no recourse. If it doesn't hurt the bottom line there is no reason to change, and this won't hurt the bottom line.

...
jimsummer's comment about a "PR-sourced, run-it-by-legal statement" from the ACC probably nails down why these things will just linger in agony.

diablesseblu
11-01-2015, 12:16 PM
I believe it was Adlai Stevenson who responded to one of his losses to Ike with the quip that he slept like a baby-woke up every 30 minutes crying.

Or maybe he just replayed the whole sorry mess in his mind.

Some things you can't un-see.

I'm going to try to pick my words carefully here, both because I'm usually inclined to do that sort of thing and also because I have personal and professional relationships with the ACC.

Then again, being a 65-year-old cancer survivor might give me some wiggle room

So, I'll try to tip-toe through the minefield.

Here's what I think we should have heard last night.

"After further review, it was determined that a Miami player's knee was on the ground, with the ball in his possession and the clock at zero. This ends the game. The call of touchdown on the field is reversed. Game over."

Simple succinct, informative. And accurate.

Here's what I don't want to hear from the ACC office. A PR-sourced, run-it-by-legal statement referencing bad camera angles, lack of cameras or inconclusive evidence. If the internet can have numerous still and freeze-frame shots of this play minutes after the game, then there's no excuse for the officials not having the evidence.

And the evidence seems pretty conclusive to me. He was down.

Was it close? Sure. But any umpire can call a pitch in the dirt a ball. You earn your stripes with the ones a half-inch off the plate. Do your job and make a tough call.

I would hope to see the ACC Man Up and admit the obvious, that a cluster of bad calls both on the field and in the booth resulted in an outcome in which one team lost a game it should have won and the other won a game it should have lost.

And discipline some folks. A season-ending suspension seems like a minimum to me and I don't think termination is unreasonable. It was that bad.

Any chance this goes any further? In most circumstances, you can't go back and do it all over again, because everybody has gone home. But any of several proper calls would have ended the game, so the equation is different. But I'm not sure there's a mechanism in place and even if there were nothing would happen without the commissioner sticking out his neck out and this is a commissioner who doesn't stick out his neck.


I watch bowl games that do not interest me simply to gauge the quality of the officiating. Started doing this years ago when I noticed that in games where the TV crew were repeatedly questioning the refs' calls, invariably the crew was from the ACC.

Don't know what goes on inside the puzzle palace at Grandover (other than lots of PR.) It does seem that the league skimps on the training, oversight and discipline of their officials. (There were certainly howls from the UNC faithful last weekend about calls in their game.)

Used my first Tivo years ago as a beta tester and have enjoyed (?) watching sports more closely as technology has evolved. Remember well a long ago conversation with an ACC AD the night before TWC was coming to install his first DVR in his home. I kidded him that maybe he'd be happier without the ability to look more closely as the "quality" of officials' calls.

6th Man
11-01-2015, 12:29 PM
I'm really not a conspiracy theory kind of guy, but I couldn't help but think back to after Duke won the Coastal in 2013. I was really upset with the ACC, because after Duke won the Coastal they made it known that they would like to be able to make their own rules as to who can play in the ACC Championship Game. The way I understand it, the ACC must have both division champs play in the title game per NCAA mandate. The ACC made it known that they would like to be able to select who plays for the title, or come up with something where it would have been possible for FSU and Clemson to have played in the title game. I thought it was very much a slam to Duke and their accomplishments. Especially to become vocal about this AFTER Duke is in the title game. I'm attaching a link I could find with a brief mention: http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/21/acc-pushing-for-conference-championship-game-changes-big-12-listening/ I'm sure the ACC would prefer Duke not be in the title game as it's all about the dollar and TV.

I just think after the blatant errors of officiating, the ACC needs to be very careful in how they approach this. I personally don't want to live in a world where a game's outcome can be overturned a day or days later, but I think the ACC needs to admit mistakes were made and that the officials will be disciplined/reprimanded in some way.