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-jk
10-30-2015, 09:20 PM
Alas I didn't see it, just listened in. Sounded good...

Post your game thoughts here.

-jk

rocketeli
10-30-2015, 09:30 PM
The 2013-14 team "underachieved" because with the departure of Collins and Coach K being understandably distracted, the transition to a "star system" was rocky. This issue was seen and addressed, so in 2014-15 when the master was ready, the students appeared. Duke was able to get the full return from three freshman stars. This year's team is going to need to return to being a sum that's greater than its parts to be really successful. Right now we have a lot of potential and a lot of really nice players, but not really any superstars, or even stars.

Bold prediction: Duke will lose more games this year than many are used to and some DBR posters will be perturbed.

lotusland
10-30-2015, 09:44 PM
Seemed like the committee of bigs led by MP3 and Amile was effective. Marshall was comfortable scoring in the post and looked ready for a much expanded role. Amile was solid all around. Jeter was active and showed some toughness and Obi, as advertised, was a rebounding machine. Vrank even had a nice bucket in garbage time.

Thornton shot way better than advertised and Jones was steady. Kennard has great scoring and passing ability and no conscience. Ingram's ability is obvious and I can definitely see him being our best player down the stretch. The way he went coast to coast to end the first half was very Justise like. Grayson had some struggles but also had some good plays. All in all a game to start the year!

fraggler
10-30-2015, 09:54 PM
A lot of good, exciting pieces on this team, but no real number one option that I would trust yet. Going to be up and down this season as everyone grows into roles, but could be a very exciting (and good) team come tourney time.

Grayson Allen - Was trying too hard to make things happen, though forcing the issue is his thing. Should draw a lot of fouls this year. Once he adjusts to the new expectations of a primary option he will be fine.
Brandon Ingram - Has a lot of talent, but was forcing the issue a bit. Needs more strength to be a true go to player. Didn't shoot well, but can pretty easily manufacture shots. Go go gadget arms.
Luke Kennard - Has a knack for the game, particularly offense, but was a bit of a black hole at times. Makes good passes, but didn't seek to set anyone up. Good looking stroke when he was taking good shots.
Derryck Thornton - Quick, great handle, good looking stroke this game. Definitely not a natural distributor, but is going to be really, really good if he keeps learning. Going to be fun to watch him on D, though he does gamble a bit.
Matt Jones - Looked confident with his shot and did some good ball handling early. Kind of did his thing then took a back seat so the younger players could play.
Marshall Plumlee - Baby hook shots! Seemed to finally harness his energy and play slower. Hoping he can play this well all year so opposing teams have to actually pay attention to our bigs.
Amile Jefferson - Did Amile things. Didn't notice anything new added to his offensive repertoire other than a little more ball handling up the court after a rebound.
Sean Obi - Looked slow and earthbound, but man he really is a rebound magnet. I don't expect much from him other than spot duty when we need some beef on D.
Chase Jeter - Great motor and emotion. Solid length and athleticism. Not sure he will do much with his back to the basket, but just his energy will get him buckets and boards.
Antonio Vrankovic - Big but a little slow. If he can develop his strength and athleticism, he looks like he knows enough to be a useful role player down the road.

Other than Luke and Marshall, we are a really long team this year. Going to get our hands on a lot of balls. Hopefully that translates into actual steals and rebounds, as we don't strike me as a particularly strong team (outside of Obi).

Duke95
10-30-2015, 09:54 PM
Thornton - excellent handle, good defender. Better shooting than expected, though opposing defense was D2 quality.
Ingram - obviously understands what is expected of him and pressed a bit. What Justise did with sheer strength, Ingram will have to do with finesse. Needs to go straight up when he gets the ball down low.
Kennard - scorer. Has a bit of a limited passing ability, which is expected. As lotus said, Kennard knew his role in HS. Here it is different. Needs a bit of adjustment.
Jeter - I love this kid. Very emotional. Similar to Amile. Doesn't have the strength, but has the will.
Obi - Hands have magnets. Zero offensive potential though. Can rebound like nobody's business.
Grayson - needs to relax and let the game flow to him. He presses hard because it seems he thinks everyone expects him to be the player he was in the finals ever single game.

That's all I have for now.

Overall, I'm happy with what I saw tonight. Solid, solid effort.

jimsumner
10-30-2015, 10:24 PM
Talked to Allen after the game. He said he rolled an ankle. Said he was fine and since he was talking with the media and not getting any treatment, I'm inclined to believe him.

Jones could be more bothersome. Groin injury. Severity TBD. He didn't show up for post games, so I assume he was getting treatment.

So, we may have to start a Matt Jones vigil. Grrr.

And I think folks are underestimating Jefferson's game. Sure, some of his 13 points, 12 rebounds and 4 blocks can be attributed to playing against an under-sized D-2 team. But six assists, zero turnovers. That sure suggests an improved handle to me.

He also had two steals, was 5-5 from the field, 3-4 from the line (much more comfortable there) and did all this in 19 astonishingly efficient minutes. That's pretty darned impressive if you ask me.

Henderson
10-30-2015, 10:38 PM
And I think folks are underestimating Jefferson's game. Sure, some of his 13 points, 12 rebounds and 4 blocks can be attributed to playing against an under-sized D-2 team. But six assists, zero turnovers. That sure suggests an improved handle to me.

He also had two steals, was 5-5 from the field, 3-4 from the line (much more comfortable there) and did all this in 19 astonishingly efficient minutes. That's pretty darned impressive if you ask me.

Thanks for that report about Amile from up close. I could only listen, but I found myself thinking, "Hello, here comes Amile." Notwithstanding the outstanding freshman class and other questions, Amile could be a significant story this season.

FerryFor50
10-30-2015, 10:51 PM
Talked to Allen after the game. He said he rolled an ankle. Said he was fine and since he was talking with the media and not getting any treatment, I'm inclined to believe him.

Jones could be more bothersome. Groin injury. Severity TBD. He didn't show up for post games, so I assume he was getting treatment.

So, we may have to start a Matt Jones vigil. Grrr.

And I think folks are underestimating Jefferson's game. Sure, some of his 13 points, 12 rebounds and 4 blocks can be attributed to playing against an under-sized D-2 team. But six assists, zero turnovers. That sure suggests an improved handle to me.

He also had two steals, was 5-5 from the field, 3-4 from the line (much more comfortable there) and did all this in 19 astonishingly efficient minutes. That's pretty darned impressive if you ask me.

Didn't get to watch, but were any of those 13 points off of mid-range jumpers? :)

I sure hope so...

Troublemaker
10-30-2015, 11:10 PM
Jones could be more bothersome. Groin injury. Severity TBD. He didn't show up for post games, so I assume he was getting treatment.

So, we may have to start a Matt Jones vigil. Grrr.

Yeah, I'm worried about Matt. Really strange injury. Non-contact. He was just playing defense, in a stance and sliding with the ball-handler, and then all of a sudden grabbed his groin.


Didn't get to watch, but were any of those 13 points off of mid-range jumpers? :)

I sure hope so...

No, but his stroke looked good from the free-throw line. He's definitely done some work in that area.

Olympic Fan
10-30-2015, 11:11 PM
I agree with Jim -- Jefferson had an amazingly efficient game ...

It was interesting because Florida Southern has some size, but after Duke opened a 10-0 lead, they went small -- I mean REAL small. They had five guards on the floor and their guards weren't the 6-5, 6-6 variety that Duke has. They had a 6-3 guard playing center -- which led to some interesting 1-on-1 matchups with MP3.

K countered by going extremely small himself -- we talked about Brandon Ingram maybe playing the 4 at some point? Well, midway through the first half he was playing the FIVE -- with Matt Jones at the four. That's not going to happen during the regular season, but it was an odd situation.

Pretty good night all around. But to me, the real spotlight should be on Thornton. Obviously, we went into the game with a lot of questions and doubts out there about his progress -- there was a pregame story about how the pro scouts were questioning his status.

Well, he didn't start, but when he did get in he was dynamic. Unlike the Blue-White scrimmage, he took care of the ball -- no turnovers in 29 minutes as the primary ballhandler -- I know that was against a tiny DII team but while they played with no size (which explains our 55-29 rebound advantage), they did have a number ox extremely quick, athletic guards. Thornton shot surprising well (22 points in 29 minutes), scoring from 3-point range (4-7) and impressively on the drive. His on-ball defense was impressive -- h had two outright steals -- in both cases, taking the ball from the dribbler and going all the way for the breakaway layup. Even when he didn't steal it, he stayed in front of his man -- and he did it with his feet, not by handchecking (no fouls).

Now, I would no more want to draw huge conclusions from one exhibition game than I did after the Blue-White scrimmage (when he struggled) ... but last night, Thornton was very, VERY good ... and that's a good sign.

I'm looking forward to the Livingston exhibition next Wednesday night.

Note: Obi can only do one thing, but, boy, does he do it well. He first got in the game with 13:00 play and within 15 seconds, he grabbed his first rebound. There was a timeout with 10:00 left and he had five rebounds at that point. That's all the did -- there was no one for him to guard out there (I want to see him try and stop another big, strong guy) and he doesn't want to shoot ... but, man, does he hit the boards.

dukelifer
10-30-2015, 11:16 PM
Didn't get to watch, but were any of those 13 points off of mid-range jumpers? :)

I sure hope so...

No. Mostly scored with his usual inside play. Thornton was impressive- very, very quick. He has a ton of potential but he is far from a finished product. Not sure Duke has had a kid with that kind of quickness, however. Ingram had some wow moments but his lack of strength is an issue and he is only a fair outside shooter at this stage. This team is a work in progress. They don't really understand how to play with each other yet. It will come but they will need a good month to gel.

Newton_14
10-30-2015, 11:21 PM
Just got in from the game. Fortunate night for me. One, I got to go to the game, which will be problematic as the year progresses due to the ridiculous ticket prices that went up once again. Uggh! Two, I sat with Bob Harris' wife. Super sweet lady who was super nice to me. Three, I got to speak to Quinn Cook, and he graciously agreed to speak to my 10 yr old daughter briefly, on a FaceTime video call. Made her year! The girl adores the dude and when she answered the call from me and saw who I had standing right beside me, she bout had a heart attack. I hated to ask really because tons of fans were begging for pics and selfies, but I waited patiently and went last as he was bolting down the steps. First class person, and was very obliging despite what he had just went through with other fans. And finally, I got a pic of Emmitt Smith for my wife, though I was never able to get close enough to speak to him. Then the game was a bonus.

It was fun watching all the new players and the improved upperclassmen. This team is going to be good, but it is going to take time to get there. But I am convinced they will gel at some point and be a team fully capable of winning ACC Hardware (which don't forget, we have not won that Hardware in awhile now. That drought could end this year if things come together like it can.

They are a very talented group, but right now they are very much trying to figure each other out and build chemistry. It is going to take time, so everyone is going to need to have patience. One good sign is we beat them the way we were supposed to beat them and turned up the defense a lot in the 2nd Half. Interesting watching all the various line ups K looked at.

We have plenty of shooters, and plenty of drivers. Plumdawg and Amile will prove effective at scoring enough in the post to keep the offense balanced. On defense we saw all of the key scheme's K went with last year. Straight man. Full court press with Ingram at the Point of the press. His length will be disruptive. Halfcourt pressing with traps, and finally, all 3 of the main zones we played last season. Lots of length and/or athleticism showed during the zone looks. The offense did not flow all that well but they still hung 100+, which again is what they should do against this type team. So lots of positives to draw from, while still needing to hone and sharpen across the board.

We are super deep with quality kids that can play. Matt Jones showed a lot of improvement. He is going to be a weapon on offense. He, Amile, and Plumdawg will be the steady, rocks that will direct and push the young'uns.

From an individual standpoint,
Matt looked the best and most consistent on both ends of the floor. Going to have a breakout year it seens.
Amile attacked the basket well and is so much stronger than years past. Great rebounder.
MP3 had the left hook going, attacked the basket well, played good defense for the most part except when FS had 5 guards on the floor in a spread. Looks to have improved rebounding.
Thornton. He is going to be fine. He just needs games under his belt and practices to keep adjusting and improving. Smallish, but strong skillset. I like his game. Plus, looks like a kid who will not be ready for the one and done thing. Going to be a player. Shot the ball well, made good passes and good decisions. Give him time and be patient.
Brandon- Needs games and practices to develop. His extra-ordinary length is going to be a real weapon on both ends of the floor. Not sure what to expect from him from the 3 point f line. Will get to the foul line a lot though. Point forward will serve him well.
Grayson. He was my only disappointment on the night. Not because he did not score well, but because he got frustrated and it got in his head. It got chippy early and he was right in the middle of it. But mainly he got down on himself because things were not going as well as he wanted on the offensive end. The freshmen were trying to console and encourage him and it was not working. I think he is going to be fine and get better and better all year.
Kennard- Scored pretty well, but forced some shots, looked like he will hold his own on defensive. His shooting and scorring will helpf us.
Jeter- Next best player on the team. Will likely get limited minutes in the early going, but has great enthusiasm.
OBI- An outlier. Rebounding machine, but very limited on the offensive end. Not going to provide points. I think his minutes will be limited most of the year. Still a super fan when on the bench though.
No one else ready for rotation play. It will be PG by committee when Thornton sits, with Matt, Grayson, Kennard, Ingram all sharing the load there.

The starters in the first half were the four returning rotation players plus Ingram. They ran out to a big lead early. In second half, Thornton started over Grayson. However, I have learned to draw no conclusions from the starting lineups in exhibition games as they almost never align with the starting lineup when the first real games that count begin.

I would suspect something like PG- Thornton, Wings- Jones & Ingram, PF-Amile, Center- Plumlee to start the year. Grayson and Kennard will play a lot of minutes off the bench, and at some point, Grayson may replace Amile in the starting lineup, with Amile becoming the 6th man that plays starters minutes.

As usual, K will not hesitate to go small, including Amile at Center, with Ingram at PF, then Thornton, Grayson, and Matt, rounding it out.

I think they have a chance to develop into a really good defensive team, using all the various defenses, from straight man to all of the zone looks, to full court presses. On offense they looked to push the ball a lot, especially with hit ahead passing. It was pretty effective I thought.

But again, it is going to take time for them to build chemistry, and develop. It will take time, so don't panic if they are not great out of the gate and drop a few games.

Enjoyable night in Cameron. Got my juices flowing again, which I personally needed pretty badly. Looking forward to the season!

Don't panic if it takes time and things are rough early on. Talented team that will develop.

One step at a time, one game at a time.

With all the new faces and one true PG, it reminds me a lot of the 99-00 season.

mo.st.dukie
10-31-2015, 12:08 AM
I think Ingram is going to emerge as the star player by seasons end. He can really shoot the ball but he was off tonight, once that jumper starts falling for him again he'll be really difficult to defend. Really his only big weakness is his lack of physical strength but that can be less important when you have elite skills, great athleticism, and great length. Brandon can handle the ball well and create shots for himself and others. I thought he was really good tonight and just needs more experience. He's one of those kids that could look so-so in November and December but then really shoot up there and be a star player in February and March.

heyman25
10-31-2015, 01:55 AM
Would like to hear an injury report. We are deep, but can't afford to lose Matt Jones or Grayson Allen. Though Kennard looked like he can sub for either

Bob Green
10-31-2015, 06:24 AM
...and some DBR posters will be perturbed.

You're really climbing out on the end of a limb with such a bold prediction!

Indoor66
10-31-2015, 08:34 AM
You're really climbing out on the end of a limb with such a bold prediction!

Boy, do you have that right. Some are perturbed with 50 point victories. :mad::cool:

BD80
10-31-2015, 09:39 AM
... K countered by going extremely small himself -- we talked about Brandon Ingram maybe playing the 4 at some point? Well, midway through the first half he was playing the FIVE -- with Matt Jones at the four. That's not going to happen during the regular season, ...

I'll bet you see it again. More than once. Maybe even more with Amile at the 5.

Troublemaker
10-31-2015, 10:24 AM
Overall, I was very pleased by Duke's performance. The three freshmen off the bench played very well. If Luke and Chase are our 7th and 8th men in some order, we have a very deep and talented team (knock on wood that Matt's okay). Luke is a scorer, and Chase is a skilled big man that can rebound. Derryck was outstanding off the bench, even receiving a 2nd-half start. He can really finish well around the basket, but my favorite stat of the game was him shooting 4-of-7 from three. If Derryck's a good shooter, then he can play in lineups with 2 bigs. Coach K's always going to try to put at least 3 shooters on the floor, imo. With the seemingly vast improvement of Amile and Marshall, we're going to play more bigball than I previously expected, and it's imperative that all three perimeter guys can hit threes for good spacing.

I loved that we're going to be a high-paced team that pushes the ball for transition threes and early postups. And in the halfcourt, there was good variety. We saw the familiar "horns" set with two big men at the elbows doing dribble handoffs. We also saw pin down screens being set for shooters to curl for a catch-and-shoot. We also ran some ball screens. No matter what "set" was being run, there was nice spacing and ball movement. Even if the shot missed, Duke was always in great position for an offensive rebound. Granted, this was a DII opponent, but I think even ACC teams will have trouble keeping Duke's big men off the offensive glass. Overall, we looked good from every aspect of offense -- transition, shooting, postups, driving, halfcourt ball movement, spacing, and offensive rebounding. We'll have to see if it holds up against higher levels of competition, of course, but right now I'm not worried about offense.

Defense? As Coach and others mentioned, it's hard to grade them defensively when the opponent played five guards, which we're not going to see much if at all in the regular season. Regardless, I thought our overall team length showed up. We even blocked like 4 or 5 jumpshots.

Grayson and Brandon will have to develop into great college players for Duke to be a top-5 team, and they were only okay-ish in this first exhibition. But I've heard Coach praise them in previous pressers, i.e. Brandon had "separated", Grayson will be "one of the best players in the country." So right now I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. And if they develop into great college players, they are going to be very ably supported by the rest of the rotation, it seems.

jimsumner
10-31-2015, 11:38 AM
Boy, do you have that right. Some are perturbed with 50 point victories. :mad::cool:

50-point win? Hah. Duke never even got a single 50-point lead. Got it to 49, took the foot off the gas pedal, had a shot-clock violation and allowed a late 3.

Is that the kind of late-game intensity and execution that Duke is going to need in more competitive games? Clearly not. And that's going to haunt Duke in March and keep Duke from going anywhere in the NCAAs.

How am I doing? :)

devildeac
10-31-2015, 01:16 PM
50-point win? Hah. Duke never even got a single 50-point lead. Got it to 49, took the foot off the gas pedal, had a shot-clock violation and allowed a late 3.

Is that the kind of late-game intensity and execution that Duke is going to need in more competitive games? Clearly not. And that's going to haunt Duke in March and keep Duke from going anywhere in the NCAAs.

How am I doing? :)

Fitting right in...

:rolleyes:

moonpie23
10-31-2015, 01:31 PM
50-point win? Hah. Duke never even got a single 50-point lead. Got it to 49, took the foot off the gas pedal, had a shot-clock violation and allowed a late 3.

Is that the kind of late-game intensity and execution that Duke is going to need in more competitive games? Clearly not. And that's going to haunt Duke in March and keep Duke from going anywhere in the NCAAs.

How am I doing? :)

you left off the rotation criticisms....

OldPhiKap
10-31-2015, 01:36 PM
50-point win? Hah. Duke never even got a single 50-point lead. Got it to 49, took the foot off the gas pedal, had a shot-clock violation and allowed a late 3.

Is that the kind of late-game intensity and execution that Duke is going to need in more competitive games? Clearly not. And that's going to haunt Duke in March and keep Duke from going anywhere in the NCAAs.

How am I doing? :)

Missing rant about stall ball, otherwise you are in mid-season board form.

huey
10-31-2015, 01:43 PM
If you guys didn't catch it last night, during halftime they covered JJ's return to campus. He gave a great talk to the young guys about always looking forward/improving. Can't imagine what it must have been like for Grayson Allen being singled out by one of his childhood idols as a future leader on the team.
Worth going back and watching if you have a DBN subscription.

MCFinARL
10-31-2015, 01:46 PM
If you guys didn't catch it last night, during halftime they covered JJ's return to campus. He gave a great talk to the young guys about always looking forward/improving. Can't imagine what it must have been like for Grayson Allen being singled out by one of his childhood idols as a future leader on the team.
Worth going back and watching if you have a DBN subscription.

This speech is actually available on Duke Blue Planet (http://www.dukeblueplanet.com) for free. It is a good speech.

Indoor66
10-31-2015, 02:15 PM
50-point win? Hah. Duke never even got a single 50-point lead. Got it to 49, took the foot off the gas pedal, had a shot-clock violation and allowed a late 3.

Is that the kind of late-game intensity and execution that Duke is going to need in more competitive games? Clearly not. And that's going to haunt Duke in March and keep Duke from going anywhere in the NCAAs.

How am I doing? :)

I'm looking for the flame button now! :cool:

FireOgilvie
10-31-2015, 02:40 PM
Thornton's ability to shoot the ball was a pleasant surprise; that could really open up some possibilities on offense. He has seemingly very good touch on his shot as well. Didn't show much playmaking yet, but he also didn't turn over the ball. Great start.

Luke's off-the-ball defense needs work. He gets lost and drifts out of position, which left their guys open for 3s. Some are saying he's a "black hole" on offense, but I was actually quite happy with his knack for finding the open man. He takes a lot of shots, but he's also one of a few guys on the team capable of putting up big scoring numbers. I didn't think any of his shots were particularly bad, which I can't say about everyone.

Very happy with all of the bigs.

Indoor66
10-31-2015, 03:43 PM
Thornton's ability to shoot the ball was a pleasant surprise; that could really open up some possibilities on offense. He has seemingly very good touch on his shot as well. Didn't show much playmaking yet, but he also didn't turn over the ball. Great start.

Luke's off-the-ball defense needs work. He gets lost and drifts out of position, which left their guys open for 3s. Some are saying he's a "black hole" on offense, but I was actually quite happy with his knack for finding the open man. He takes a lot of shots, but he's also one of a few guys on the team capable of putting up big scoring numbers. I didn't think any of his shots were particularly bad, which I can't say about everyone.

Very happy with all of the bigs.

Maybe the coaches knew something when they recruited him?

FireOgilvie
10-31-2015, 03:53 PM
Maybe the coaches knew something when they recruited him?

Thornton? Honestly, he's not known for his shooting (only took 2.5 3s/game in HS and made 34%) and no one has really talked about it, so I was pleasantly surprised to see him making 4/7 3s last night. Does that make sense?

jimsumner
10-31-2015, 04:07 PM
Thornton? Honestly, he's not known for his shooting (only took 2.5 3s/game in HS and made 34%) and no one has really talked about it, so I was pleasantly surprised to see him making 4/7 3s last night. Does that make sense?

K commented that Thornton made all of his 3s when he was set, missed all of them when he wasn't.

FWIW.

3pointshooter
10-31-2015, 04:31 PM
The 2013-14 team "underachieved" because with the departure of Collins and Coach K being understandably distracted, the transition to a "star system" was rocky. This issue was seen and addressed, so in 2014-15 when the master was ready, the students appeared. Duke was able to get the full return fr,om three freshman stars. This year's team is going to need to return to being a sum that's greater than its parts to be really successful. Right now we have a lot of potential and a lot of really nice players, but not really any superstars, or even stars.

Bold prediction: Duke will lose more games this year than many are used to and some DBR posters will be perturbed. Jefferson and Jones were solid. Plumlee was Plumlee with more minutes. Kennard and Thorton are not bashful and must have a green light. Ingram is an amazing talent. Jeter played well but did not play much. Obi had 6 rebounds in 8 minutes. You would not have noticed Allen.

jimsumner
10-31-2015, 04:50 PM
Jefferson and Jones were solid. Plumlee was Plumlee with more minutes. Kennard and Thorton are not bashful and must have a green light. Ingram is an amazing talent. Jeter played well but did not play much. Obi had 6 rebounds in 8 minutes. You would not have noticed Allen.

Thornton, please. With an n. Let's not do this again. Pretty please. With a cherry on top.

BD80
10-31-2015, 05:19 PM
Thornton, please. With an n. Let's not do this again. Pretty please. With a cherry on top.

This issue is destined to be a thor in your side ...

OldPhiKap
10-31-2015, 05:36 PM
This issue is destined to be a thor in your side ...

Is Tiny Thor at Marquette with Wojo? Would love to have him on our sideline, but for the fact that means we lose someone currently on the staff.

devildeac
10-31-2015, 06:14 PM
This issue is destined to be a thor in your side ...

Someone should hammer him (and c*rolina) for this...

SilkyJ
10-31-2015, 08:11 PM
The 2013-14 team "underachieved" because with the departure of Collins and Coach K being understandably distracted, the transition to a "star system" was rocky. This issue was seen and addressed, so in 2014-15 when the master was ready, the students appeared. Duke was able to get the full return from three freshman stars. This year's team is going to need to return to being a sum that's greater than its parts to be really successful. Right now we have a lot of potential and a lot of really nice players, but not really any superstars, or even stars.

Bold prediction: Duke will lose more games this year than many are used to and some DBR posters will be perturbed.

For what its worth I tend to agree. We are not the #4 team in the country, though maybe the landscape is weak enough this year that we are still top 10...I think we're a ~3-4 seed caliber team.

It was funny to me that the announcers were saying the D is ahead of the O. We scored 100+ and shot 50%+, though against a much lesser opponent. And we gave up 40 in the first half...to a D2 team. I saw a ton of open looks and uncontested jumpers and layups. Hard to judge much b/c they played ridiculously small ball so often, but my sense is that the froshies have not fully picked up the defensive schemes quite yet, which you would expect. Heck last season we were still struggling with D in January, so I think this may be a learning process. The tools to be a great defensive team are there tho, especially if Amile and Marshall can protect the post.




Grayson and Brandon will have to develop into great college players for Duke to be a top-5 team, and they were only okay-ish in this first exhibition. But I've heard Coach praise them in previous pressers, i.e. Brandon had "separated", Grayson will be "one of the best players in the country." So right now I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. And if they develop into great college players, they are going to be very ably supported by the rest of the rotation, it seems.

I hope what K said was true, but Brandon and Grayson haven't looked elite to me. Can't always trust what the mastermind says in his preseason pressers.


Thornton, please. With an n. Let's not do this again. Pretty please. With a cherry on top.

NOW you're in midseason form, Jim :)

JPtheGame
10-31-2015, 08:32 PM
For what its worth I tend to agree. We are not the #4 team in the country, though maybe the landscape is weak enough this year that we are still top 10...I think we're a ~3-4 seed caliber team.

Maybe lets watch the SECOND exhibition game and check out a few of the other teams around the country before we decide what seed and region we can expect.

NSDukeFan
10-31-2015, 09:44 PM
50-point win? Hah. Duke never even got a single 50-point lead. Got it to 49, took the foot off the gas pedal, had a shot-clock violation and allowed a late 3.

Is that the kind of late-game intensity and execution that Duke is going to need in more competitive games? Clearly not. And that's going to haunt Duke in March and keep Duke from going anywhere in the NCAAs.

How am I doing? :)


Maybe lets watch the SECOND exhibition game and check out a few of the other teams around the country before we decide what seed and region we can expect.

Am I to early or too late to say that this team has a sweet sixteen ceiling and this is a round of 32 team?

elvis14
11-01-2015, 05:32 PM
Thornton, please. With an n. Let's not do this again. Pretty please. With a cherry on top.

Poor spellers of the world untie!

whereinthehellami
11-02-2015, 09:09 AM
Loved the fact that the team only had 3 TOs. This is going to be an important stat to track all season long.

Thornton looked really comfortable out there and really got it going. Didn't seem to force shots or passes but he over dribbles. Way too much shake and bake. He has some crazy handles but no need to do three moves in a row when one would work. I think the coaches will nip this in the bud pretty quick.

I love watching Kennard play. I find myself watching him whenever he is in the game. His IQ and natural feel for the game are off the charts. He did force some shots though.

I hope Jefferson and Plumlee can provide about 10 PPG on a consistent basis. Plumlee's baby hook is not a thing of beauty but if he can consistently knock it down it is all good.

I didn't think Allen's play was as bad as the announcers were making it out to be but agree that his mannerisms need to be fixed. He just looks so petulant (?) out there when things are not going his way. As one of the veterans of the team, he needs to be more positive and more of a leader by example.

Overall though I was pleasantly surprised with where the team is right now. I am hoping to see consistency in the exhibition game on Wednesday.

freshmanjs
11-02-2015, 09:14 AM
Loved the fact that the team only had 3 TOs. This is going to be an important stat to track all season long.



the box score shows 9 (which is still good)

whereinthehellami
11-02-2015, 09:32 AM
the box score shows 9 (which is still good)

Thanks for the correction. I didn't check the box but was going off what I thought I heard during the broadcast.

southgater
11-02-2015, 06:05 PM
I was out of town last week and so still getting caught up on this. Maybe I missed it in the thread somewhere, but who played the point when Thornton wasn't playing (eg at the start of the game)? Everyone (almost?) seems to be assuming Thornton will become the starter at the point and play quite a bit, but there still seems to be a fair bit of uncertainty as to who will back him up. Maybe there is a clue to the answer from this game?

gep
11-02-2015, 06:14 PM
...
I didn't think Allen's play was as bad as the announcers were making it out to be but agree that his mannerisms need to be fixed. He just looks so petulant (?) out there when things are not going his way. As one of the veterans of the team, he needs to be more positive and more of a leader by example.
...


This observation gave me pause. I hope it's just that Grayson wanted so much to do good... and nothing else.

CDu
11-03-2015, 08:28 AM
I was out of town last week and so still getting caught up on this. Maybe I missed it in the thread somewhere, but who played the point when Thornton wasn't playing (eg at the start of the game)? Everyone (almost?) seems to be assuming Thornton will become the starter at the point and play quite a bit, but there still seems to be a fair bit of uncertainty as to who will back him up. Maybe there is a clue to the answer from this game?

There was no PG when Thornton was out. Ballhandling duties were shared by Allen and Jones. Which lends itself to the notion that we will have a PG by committee when Thornton sits.

Ichabod Drain
11-03-2015, 08:34 AM
There was no PG when Thornton was out. Ballhandling duties were shared by Allen and Jones. Which lends itself to the notion that we will have a PG by committee when Thornton sits.

Ingram as well from what I recall.

CDu
11-03-2015, 10:02 AM
Ingram as well from what I recall.

Yeah, I should have been more specific: primarily Allen and Jones. But certainly not exclusively. Ingram and (if memory serves) Kennard also brought the ball up (not really a defining characteristic of a PG) and initiated the offense (more of a defining characteristic) at times too. But basically, we don't have a true PG besides Thornton. When Thornton isn't in, we appear to be just piecing it together with several capable ballhandlers who don't happen to be facilitators by nature.

CDu
11-03-2015, 10:06 AM
I didn't think Allen's play was as bad as the announcers were making it out to be but agree that his mannerisms need to be fixed. He just looks so petulant (?) out there when things are not going his way. As one of the veterans of the team, he needs to be more positive and more of a leader by example.


This observation gave me pause. I hope it's just that Grayson wanted so much to do good... and nothing else.

Joe Ovies said last March that Allen has a bit of a... how do I say this... prickly personality. That characteristic can sometimes be a good thing for a player and team. But sometimes it may manifest in bad mannerisms when things aren't going great for said player (see Josh McRoberts).

Leelee902
11-03-2015, 10:38 AM
See Rasheed Sulaimon!

phaedrus
11-03-2015, 10:41 AM
But basically, we don't have a true PG besides Thornton. When Thornton isn't in, we appear to be just piecing it together with several capable ballhandlers who don't happen to be facilitators by nature.

Which is not necessarily a problem because we can probably still initiate an offense that way (i.e. dribble drive), but it could leave us vulnerable to pressing defenses.

elvis14
11-03-2015, 11:09 AM
Joe Ovies said last March that Allen has a bit of a... how do I say this... prickly personality. That characteristic can sometimes be a good thing for a player and team. But sometimes it may manifest in bad mannerisms when things aren't going great for said player (see Josh McRoberts).

Joe works for 99.9 "The Heel". The guys on that station have about as much credibility as the light blue gum on my shoe.

CDu
11-03-2015, 11:15 AM
Joe works for 99.9 "The Heel". The guys on that station have about as much credibility as the light blue gum on my shoe.

Ovies is an NC State grad. Gold is a Maryland grad. They are most certainly not ones to cater to UNC-CH. They also spend quite a LOT of time talking with Chris Spatola (who also has done and may still do a radio show on 99.9, and is most certainly not a Tarheel lean). And I'm guessing that they get most of their insider information on the Blue Devils from Spatola. I don't think there is an issue of bias here.

CDu
11-03-2015, 11:17 AM
Which is not necessarily a problem because we can probably still initiate an offense that way (i.e. dribble drive), but it could leave us vulnerable to pressing defenses.

I agree - not a huge concern because (a) we're probably only talking about 10-12 mpg max, and (b) for those 10-12 minutes, isolation basketball can work fine as long as you have guys who can create their own shot (and Ingram, Allen, and Kennard seem quite capable of that). There may be times when more organized defenses may give us problems, but in general you can survive without a true backup PG.

subzero02
11-03-2015, 12:00 PM
See Rasheed Sulaimon!

That's who came to mind for me. This year I am interested in seeing if Sulaimon gets back on defense after not getting a call on the offensive end... my guess is old habits die hard.

jimsumner
11-03-2015, 05:24 PM
Joe Ovies said last March that Allen has a bit of a... how do I say this... prickly personality. That characteristic can sometimes be a good thing for a player and team. But sometimes it may manifest in bad mannerisms when things aren't going great for said player (see Josh McRoberts).

Curious. I have not seen any evidence of this. I have seen occasional evidence of a player who can be too hard on himself when he makes a mistake and that frustration can manifest itself in bad body language.

Which needs to be fixed. And has been fixed in other K players, Bobby Hurley and Quinn Cook being two examples.

BD80
11-03-2015, 05:50 PM
Curious. I have not seen any evidence of this. I have seen occasional evidence of a player who can be too hard on himself when he makes a mistake and that frustration can manifest itself in bad body language.

Which needs to be fixed. And has been fixed in other K players, Bobby Hurley and Quinn Cook being two examples.

That Coach K guy does seem to know a thing or two about helping a player modify his attitude and focus more productively on playing winning basketball.

I think he might just work out.

luvdahops
11-03-2015, 05:51 PM
Curious. I have not seen any evidence of this. I have seen occasional evidence of a player who can be too hard on himself when he makes a mistake and that frustration can manifest itself in bad body language.

Which needs to be fixed. And has been fixed in other K players, Bobby Hurley and Quinn Cook being two examples.

Agreed. And I think we would all much rather see a performance like this from Grayson in the first exhibition than during the regular season.

CDu
11-03-2015, 05:55 PM
Curious. I have not seen any evidence of this. I have seen occasional evidence of a player who can be too hard on himself when he makes a mistake and that frustration can manifest itself in bad body language.

Which needs to be fixed. And has been fixed in other K players, Bobby Hurley and Quinn Cook being two examples.

I think it may all stem from a quote from Coach K referring to Allen's practice habits, calling him, affectionately an "a--hole". That would be consistent with your description of a gritty player determined to succeed who maybe gets down on himself when he doesn't. Perhaps it was Coach K's off-color word choice that caused confusion.

For reference, I am referencing an NBC Sports article from last spring for Coach K's quote. I suspect that is the source of confusion, as Coach K was referring to Allen's effort not his personality.

And like you I am not worried about his attitude or personality. And that is true regardless of whether it improves or not.