2015-16 General NBA Thread (not Duke-specific)

[CDu]

And... we're off! Apologies to those here who don't follow the NBA. But there is a strong contingent of folks that do. So this thread is for them (us) as the season gets underway.

The season kicked off with a potential Eastern Conference Finals preview (I use that term loosely as the Cavs were without Irving and the Bulls were without Dunleavy and had Rose active but recovering from a broken orbital bone). The game didn't disappoint, as it was very entertaining. The Cavs jumped out early as the Bulls with a new coach and new starting PF looked lost defensively. But the Bulls answered with a flurry of 3s. When both teams went to their benches, the Bulls' depth showed as they built a comfortable lead at the end of the first quarter. From there, it would be a mostly sloppy affair with moments of brilliance sprinkled in. The Cavs would chip away at the lead slowly until late in the third quarter. This time, the Bulls' bench let them down against the Cavs' backups, allowing an 11-0 run to put Cleveland right back into the game. In fact, Cleveland would briefly regain the lead in the 4th. However, the Bulls quickly answered and rebuilt an 8 point lead. A couple of Love 3s and some brainfarts by the Bulls would cut it to 2, with the Cavs and LeBron getting the final possession. Shockingly, Lebron got the ball (sarcasm). Shockingly, he attacked the rim (also sarcasm). Actually shockingly, Pau Gasol (he of the cinder blocks tied to his feet) was able to rotate and block LeBron's shot out of bounds. With 3.6 seconds left, the Cavs ran a double-screen for LeBron, but Butler recovered to steal the inbounds and seal the victory.

In the undercard, the new-look Pistons shocked the Hawks in Atlanta. All five Pistons starters scored 15 or more points, and Andre Drummond added 19 (!) rebounds. For the Hawks, the German Rajon Rondo (Schroeder) scored 20 off the bench, but the wings (Korver and Bazemore) let them down. It was a surprisingly comfortable win for the Pistons on the road. Kudos to them.

In the late-game, the 2015 champions faced off against the up-and-coming Pelicans. But Steph Curry did Steph Curry things, scoring 40 points and dishing 7 assists as the Warriors rolled to an easy victory. It was a disappointing game from Anthony Davis, who shot 4-20 and got just 6 rebounds.

Full disclosure: I only saw the Bulls/Cavs game as I can't stay up for 10:30pm start times these days. But the stat lines for Drummond and Curry were very impressive. In the Bulls game, it was a coming out party for Nikola Mirotic (who led the team in scoring and hit a ton of huge shots) and a weird night from Butler and Rose (neither of whom shot well at all despite getting lots of good looks). Cleveland looked shaky, as LeBron's back is apparently a concern (he didn't look explosive, getting blocked numerous times and settling for mostly jumpers). Love, Thompson, Mozgov, and Smith didn't look particularly good out there. The new additions (Jefferson and especially Mo Williams) looked very good though. Williams was a huge get in the wake of Irving's injury. He's a starting-caliber PG who will torch second units once Irving returns, and can make Dellavedova an afterthought. But it all comes down to LeBron's health. He has already had an injection in the back before the season starts. That's not a great sign, as backs don't typically get better with age. The Cavs will need to monitor his minutes throughout the season to make sure he's able to give it his all in the postseason.

[luburch]

And... we're off! Apologies to those here who don't follow the NBA. But there is a strong contingent of folks that do. So this thread is for them (us) as the season gets underway.

The season kicked off with a potential Eastern Conference Finals preview (I use that term loosely as the Cavs were without Irving and the Bulls were without Dunleavy and had Rose active but recovering from a broken orbital bone). The game didn't disappoint, as it was very entertaining. The Cavs jumped out early as the Bulls with a new coach and new starting PF looked lost defensively. But the Bulls answered with a flurry of 3s. When both teams went to their benches, the Bulls' depth showed as they built a comfortable lead at the end of the first quarter. From there, it would be a mostly sloppy affair with moments of brilliance sprinkled in. The Cavs would chip away at the lead slowly until late in the third quarter. This time, the Bulls' bench let them down against the Cavs' backups, allowing an 11-0 run to put Cleveland right back into the game. In fact, Cleveland would briefly regain the lead in the 4th. However, the Bulls quickly answered and rebuilt an 8 point lead. A couple of Love 3s and some brainfarts by the Bulls would cut it to 2, with the Cavs and LeBron getting the final possession. Shockingly, Lebron got the ball (sarcasm). Shockingly, he attacked the rim (also sarcasm). Actually shockingly, Pau Gasol (he of the cinder blocks tied to his feet) was able to rotate and block LeBron's shot out of bounds. With 3.6 seconds left, the Cavs ran a double-screen for LeBron, but Butler recovered to steal the inbounds and seal the victory.

In the undercard, the new-look Pistons shocked the Hawks in Atlanta. All five Pistons starters scored 15 or more points, and Andre Drummond added 19 (!) rebounds. For the Hawks, the German Rajon Rondo (Schroeder) scored 20 off the bench, but the wings (Korver and Bazemore) let them down. It was a surprisingly comfortable win for the Pistons on the road. Kudos to them.

In the late-game, the 2015 champions faced off against the up-and-coming Pelicans. But Steph Curry did Steph Curry things, scoring 40 points and dishing 7 assists as the Warriors rolled to an easy victory. It was a disappointing game from Anthony Davis, who shot 4-20 and got just 6 rebounds.

Full disclosure: I only saw the Bulls/Cavs game as I can't stay up for 10:30pm start times these days. But the stat lines for Drummond and Curry were very impressive. In the Bulls game, it was a coming out party for Nikola Mirotic (who led the team in scoring and hit a ton of huge shots) and a weird night from Butler and Rose (neither of whom shot well at all despite getting lots of good looks). Cleveland looked shaky, as LeBron's back is apparently a concern (he didn't look explosive, getting blocked numerous times and settling for mostly jumpers). Love, Thompson, Mozgov, and Smith didn't look particularly good out there. The new additions (Jefferson and especially Mo Williams) looked very good though. Williams was a huge get in the wake of Irving's injury. He's a starting-caliber PG who will torch second units once Irving returns, and can make Dellavedova an afterthought. But it all comes down to LeBron's health. He has already had an injection in the back before the season starts. That's not a great sign, as backs don't typically get better with age. The Cavs will need to monitor his minutes throughout the season to make sure he's able to give it his all in the postseason.

I Wanted to address the Hawks, though the only game I was actually able to watch was Bulls/Cavs as well. I'm just not sold on Atlanta. Many people are projecting them to grab a top 3 seed in the east again this year, but I'm not sure that's likely. They overachieved last season and lost Carroll in free agency. I think the 5 seed is a more plausible outcome, behind the Cavs, Bulls, Heat, and Wizards.

[nmduke2001]

Today marks the first game of Kevin Durant's final season with OKC. Of course, we don't know if that is true, but I can't see a scenario in which he decides to stay. In my opinion, Durant and Westbrook are pieces from two different puzzles. Durant may be the most gifted scorer ever and Westbrook is one of the most athletic guards in history. Unfortunately, Westbrook largely requires the ball to be at his best. That means that KD isn't taking as many shots as he should. I think KD and Westbrook are better without the other.

It's a shame that OKC was gifted with Durant when they bought (stole) the team from Seattle and were not able to put the right parts around him to win a championship.

[BD80]

... the new-look Pistons shocked the Hawks in Atlanta. All five Pistons starters scored 15 or more points, and Andre Drummond added 19 (!) rebounds. For the Hawks, the German Rajon Rondo (Schroeder) scored 20 off the bench, but the wings (Korver and Bazemore) let them down. It was a surprisingly comfortable win for the Pistons on the road. Kudos to them.


... the stat lines for Drummond and Curry were very impressive. ...

Many of Drummond's rebounds came in flurries due to his inability to score when he can't dunk. Detroit had 12 offensive rebounds in the 4th quarter, which sounds impressive, but in reality simply amounted to Drummond batting the ball multiple times off the offensive glass until the ball happened to go into the basket.

[luburch]

Today marks the first game of Kevin Durant's final season with OKC. Of course, we don't know if that is true, but I can't see a scenario in which he decides to stay. In my opinion, Durant and Westbrook are pieces from two different puzzles. Durant may be the most gifted scorer ever and Westbrook is one of the most athletic guards in history. Unfortunately, Westbrook largely requires the ball to be at his best. That means that KD isn't taking as many shots as he should. I think KD and Westbrook are better without the other.

It's a shame that OKC was gifted with Durant when they bought (stole) the team from Seattle and were not able to put the right parts around him to win a championship.

I wouldn't be surprised for Durant to sign a one year deal with OKC this off-season and then look for a bigger deal the next off-season.

[CDu]

Many of Drummond's rebounds came in flurries due to his inability to score when he can't dunk. Detroit had 12 offensive rebounds in the 4th quarter, which sounds impressive, but in reality simply amounted to Drummond batting the ball multiple times off the offensive glass until the ball happened to go into the basket.

Ah, the old Moses Malone approach!

[Billy Dat]

And... we're off! Apologies to those here who don't follow the NBA. But there is a strong contingent of folks that do.

Word to herb.


Shockingly, Lebron got the ball (sarcasm). Shockingly, he attacked the rim (also sarcasm). Actually shockingly, Pau Gasol (he of the cinder blocks tied to his feet) was able to rotate and block LeBron's shot out of bounds. With 3.6 seconds left, the Cavs ran a double-screen for LeBron, but Butler recovered to steal the inbounds and seal the victory.


After Love knocked down those two shots I thought it would have been a good idea to have LBJ drive and kick to him, but he had a clear path so I don't blame him for taking it. Great block by Pau and nice D by Butler, or uncreative play call by Blatt, on the final inbounds. I thought Rose looked tough, and he obviously watched a lot of Duke last year as he now sports the Jah/Q/Tyus/Justise carrot-top hairdo.


In the late-game, the 2015 champions faced off against the up-and-coming Pelicans. But Steph Curry did Steph Curry things, scoring 40 points and dishing 7 assists as the Warriors rolled to an easy victory. It was a disappointing game from Anthony Davis, who shot 4-20 and got just 6 rebounds.


Curry's 22 in the first quarter was insane. The banged-up Pelicans are pretty weak right now, but Ish Smith is a really nice addition for them. I also can't get over the transformation of Dante Cunnigham from the bruiser who helped send us packing in the 2009 NCAAs to a svelt 3 point marksman. Another "I am getting old" moment was realizing that Luke Walton is the acting head coach of the Warriors while Kerr recoups. Also, very funny moment for Alvin Gentry to receive his ring and then take up his new place manning the sideline for the opposition. To cap it off, The Pigeon looked bad which was fun. ESPN's TrueHoop has its own podcast and some of the guys who are around the Warriors a lot (either Kevin Pelton or Kevin Arnovitz) were making fun of the Pigeon's "branding" obsession and, generally, what a stiff calculated dude he is, which made me happy.

[CDu]

I Wanted to address the Hawks, though the only game I was actually able to watch was Bulls/Cavs as well. I'm just not sold on Atlanta. Many people are projecting them to grab a top 3 seed in the east again this year, but I'm not sure that's likely. They overachieved last season and lost Carroll in free agency. I think the 5 seed is a more plausible outcome, behind the Cavs, Bulls, Heat, and Wizards.

I'm with you on the Hawks. Especially if they don't find a way to replace Carroll. I don't want to say that their season last year was lucky (you don't luck into 60+ wins), but I never really bought them as a title contender last year (until Irving and Love went down, then I felt they could potentially make the finals). I think they were due for some regression anyway, but losing Carroll changes that team a great deal.

Health is always a big facture, as both the Bulls (Dunleavy is out indefinitely, Rose is always a risk, and Noah and Gibson are injury risks) and Cavs (Irving and Shumpert are out, Varejao is always an injury risk, and James has developed back problems) will have to deal with injury questions. But I agree that the four teams you mentioned seem like a stronger group than the Hawks. And I wouldn't rule out Chicago's neighbors to the North either. Milwaukee added Monroe and Parker to a young team that was progressing nicely.

[luvdahops]

I'm with you on the Hawks. Especially if they don't find a way to replace Carroll. I don't want to say that their season last year was lucky (you don't luck into 60+ wins), but I never really bought them as a title contender last year (until Irving and Love went down, then I felt they could potentially make the finals). I think they were due for some regression anyway, but losing Carroll changes that team a great deal.

Health is always a big facture, as both the Bulls (Dunleavy is out indefinitely, Rose is always a risk, and Noah and Gibson are injury risks) and Cavs (Irving and Shumpert are out, Varejao is always an injury risk, and James has developed back problems) will have to deal with injury questions. But I agree that the four teams you mentioned seem like a stronger group than the Hawks. And I wouldn't rule out Chicago's neighbors to the North either. Milwaukee added Monroe and Parker to a young team that was progressing nicely.

Rose is the one I really worry about with the Bulls. Dunleavy makes everything go more smoothly, but I believe the McDermott/Snell combo can at least approximate much of what Mike provides. I think the addition of Bobby Portis will help mitigate the injury risk for Noah and Gibson in a big way. He looked NBA-ready in the preseason, and may prove to be the steal of the draft, as well a key go-forward piece if/when the roster turns over next summer. At a minimum, he is a big upgrade over Nazr Mohammed as the 5th big.

[Billy Dat]

CDu - what's the local fan take on the Rose/Butler rivalry - is it a media creation or is there is a sense that they don't like each other and it could be a negative for the team?

[CDu]

Rose is the one I really worry about with the Bulls. Dunleavy makes everything go more smoothly, but I believe the McDermott/Snell combo can at least approximate much of what Mike provides. I think the addition of Bobby Portis will help mitigate the injury risk for Noah and Gibson in a big way. He looked NBA-ready in the preseason, and may prove to be the steal of the draft, as well a key go-forward piece if/when the roster turns over next summer. At a minimum, he is a big upgrade over Nazr Mohammed as the 5th big.

Yeah, Rose is the one spot that the Bulls don't have any backup plan for. Snell and McDermott have both looked good so far (well, Snell less so early in preseason, but he's coming on more recently). As you said, Portis replicates a lot of the strengths (to a less proven degree at this point) of Gibson and Noah. But our backup PGs are E'Twaun Moore (strong defensively but not a PG), Aaron Brooks (small, terrible defensively, and doesn't pass), and Hinrich (not physically capable of contributing anymore). Hopefully Rose stays healthy.


CDu - what's the local fan take on the Rose/Butler rivalry - is it a media creation or is there is a sense that they don't like each other and it could be a negative for the team?

I think for a while folks thought it was a thing, but now folks believe it was entirely a media creation. Basically, this one writer (Joe Cowley) started spreading the rumor. I think it started somewhere with the idea that Butler emerged in Rose's absence, and that the two were "alpha dogs" that couldn't coexist. But both guys have stated numerous times how made up it is. Rose has even gone so far as to say that Butler's emergence is the best thing for him, because it takes pressure off of him. And Butler has talked/tweeted numerous times in support of Rose. There's really nothing there.

The problem is that Rose is really quiet and not well-spoken, and Butler just doesn't care what the media thinks, so for a while neither guy did a good job of quelling the rumors. But there just doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of a rift, and lots of evidence that there isn't a rift.

[WV_Iron_Duke]

CDu,
Why didn't Dunleavy play last night?
Everybody knows that Grant Hill is a minority owner of the Hawks. Wonder how it will effect his NBA Channel activities? He is still listed to be on Open Court.

[Billy Dat]

CDu,
Why didn't Dunleavy play last night?
Everybody knows that Grant Hill is a minority owner of the Hawks. Wonder how it will effect his NBA Channel activities? He is still listed to be on Open Court.

I can tell you that Dunleavy Jr. had back surgery this summer and is out for quite a while.

Here's a fun recent podcast with him, turns out he is quite a binge TV advocate (Netflix, Amazon, HBO Go, et al)
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=13940691

[CDu]

CDu,
Why didn't Dunleavy play last night?
Everybody knows that Grant Hill is a minority owner of the Hawks. Wonder how it will effect his NBA Channel activities? He is still listed to be on Open Court.

Dunleavy is out for at least 8 weeks following offseason back surgery. Well, I guess technically he was out 8-10 weeks from late September, so maybe it is more like 4-6 weeks now. But there is no official timetable for his return.

As for Grant Hill, it is interesting to see that he may be stilla regular on NBA TV. I would suspect that would have to stop at some point, although I don't know if there is a specific problem with it. NBA TV is, after all, owned by the NBA. So Grant is partially tied to the product anyway as a part owner.

[Edouble]

I'm with you on the Hawks. Especially if they don't find a way to replace Carroll. I don't want to say that their season last year was lucky (you don't luck into 60+ wins), but I never really bought them as a title contender last year (until Irving and Love went down, then I felt they could potentially make the finals). I think they were due for some regression anyway, but losing Carroll changes that team a great deal.

Health is always a big facture, as both the Bulls (Dunleavy is out indefinitely, Rose is always a risk, and Noah and Gibson are injury risks) and Cavs (Irving and Shumpert are out, Varejao is always an injury risk, and James has developed back problems) will have to deal with injury questions. But I agree that the four teams you mentioned seem like a stronger group than the Hawks. And I wouldn't rule out Chicago's neighbors to the North either. Milwaukee added Monroe and Parker to a young team that was progressing nicely.

Yeah, Danny Ferry would not have left us hanging out to dry without a small forward, but I guess that's yesterday's news. I think several of our guys had a career year last year. If Bazemore and Dennis can develop a bit. we may have a more exciting, younger team in a few seasons, but the core group as it is now... I'm not a believer.

[Billy Dat]

Yeah, Danny Ferry would not have left us hanging out to dry without a small forward, but I guess that's yesterday's news. I think several of our guys had a career year last year. If Bazemore and Dennis can develop a bit. we may have a more exciting, younger team in a few seasons, but the core group as it is now... I'm not a believer.

For those interested, it's worth the long read to explore the circumstances that led to Ferry's firing - we all know the African-stereotype-riddled scouting report about Luol Deng which he read aloud was the seminal event, but there was so much more behind the scenes, especially part-owner Michael Gearon Jr's desire to take down Danny Ferry:

"Claws out: How a Hawks regime fell" - 10/6/15
by Brian Windhorst and Kevin Arnovitz
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13457071/nba-how-atlanta-hawks-regime-fell-apart

[superdave]

Dunleavy is out for at least 8 weeks following offseason back surgery. Well, I guess technically he was out 8-10 weeks from late September, so maybe it is more like 4-6 weeks now. But there is no official timetable for his return.

As for Grant Hill, it is interesting to see that he may be stilla regular on NBA TV. I would suspect that would have to stop at some point, although I don't know if there is a specific problem with it. NBA TV is, after all, owned by the NBA. So Grant is partially tied to the product anyway as a part owner.

Magic owned a piece of the Lakers until 2010. I cannot recall if he was a paid tv commentator during that time period.

I guess if Tommy Heinson can cheer for the Celtics during his former team's games then Grant Hill can be a studio guy. You are either good at the tv thing or not, regardless of your fandom.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Very happy to have the NBA back. As a Heat fan, I'm not used to such a long offseason...last season was 2 months shorter than the previous 4 seasons.

For the Heat, the general trend in the preseason was that the starting five looked like they couldn't figure out how to play together, and then they would put in Gerald Green and he would go off for 20-something points, and then the starting five would come in again and look like crap, and so on.

It's a little surprising how bad the starters looked considering they have plus players at each position. Maybe Deng is only an average SF at this point, but Dragic, Wade, Bosh, and Whiteside all have All-star potential. These guys have barely played together at all, though, so maybe it's not that surprising. I do think there will be changes at some point.

My preference would be to have McRoberts start and Deng go to the bench. McRoberts actually looked pretty spectacular this preseason, and I would even venture to say he's the best passer and facilitator on the team. Gerald Green should continue to come off the bench, and based on how he played in the preseason, I would say he's a Sixth Man of the Year candidate.

It will be interesting to see what kind of role Winslow can carve out. I think everyone was a fan of his all-around game, but he can't continue to shoot under 30%. I have total confidence that he'll figure it out, but it may take a little longer for him to become a major roster piece than I had originally expected.

The biggest key for the Heat is, of course, Whiteside. He can be a game changer if he can stay out of foul trouble and keep his emotions in check.

[pfrduke]

Oak just took Tyler Zeller off the dribble for his first NBA points and then swatted Marcus Smart on the other end. And yes, I am confessing to voluntarily watching the 76ers.

ETA: A 5-5 start for big Jah! 10 points in 6 minutes.

[SCMatt33]

Oak just took Tyler Zeller off the dribble for his first NBA points and then swatted Marcus Smart on the other end. And yes, I am confessing to voluntarily watching the 76ers.

Jah is up to 5-5 for the game! Just taking Zeller to school. This is the most excited I've been as a Sixer fan for a long time. Yes, I know it's the first quarter of the first game, but that's more than we've had to look forward to for awhile

[duke4ever19]

Oak just took Tyler Zeller off the dribble for his first NBA points and then swatted Marcus Smart on the other end. And yes, I am confessing to voluntarily watching the 76ers.

Perfect from the field so far.

It's gonna be a good year to be a Duke and Sixers fan. Yeah, the Sixers will suck, but the Oak will make the at least two teams sorry he didn't go sooner in the draft.

[dukelion]

Oak just took Tyler Zeller off the dribble for his first NBA points and then swatted Marcus Smart on the other end. And yes, I am confessing to voluntarily watching the 76ers.

Halfway through Q1 of his first NBA game and Okafor is 5-5, 1 reb and a block. All his points came of killer post moves.

Straight ballin

[FerryFor50]

How bad is Philly?

TJ McConnell has played 10 min already in the first half. Yeesh.

[theAlaskanBear]

How bad is Philly?

TJ McConnell has played 10 min already in the first half. Yeesh.

You aren't kidding. Outside of Okafors big start, and flashes from Noel....the 76ers have nothing. Ok, Canaan might be a worthwhile backup NBA guard....but sheesh. Oak is going to struggle at times this year because philly doesn't have the players to keep defenses honest.

[FerryFor50]

You aren't kidding. Outside of Okafors big start, and flashes from Noel...the 76ers have nothing. Ok, Canaan might be a worthwhile backup NBA guard...but sheesh. Oak is going to struggle at times this year because philly doesn't have the players to keep defenses honest.

Noel - that's another story. Several offensive sets, they ran the offense through him. Not a good look.

Are they tanking for the #1 pick next year already?

[timmy c]

Noel - that's another story. Several offensive sets, they ran the offense through him. Not a good look.

Are they tanking for the #1 pick next year already?

They are tanking for the 2016 and 2017 #1 picks.

[theAlaskanBear]

A bunch of Duke fans watching Sixers....well, even if they have another putrid year at least they raised their profile a bit.

Once this game is up, you might consider watching the 10pm clippers-Kings game, with a replay of the magic-wizards game as dessert.

[jimsumner]

They are tanking for the 2016 and 2017 #1 picks.

And they'll select a pair of seven-footers.

[FerryFor50]

A bunch of Duke fans watching Sixers...well, even if they have another putrid year at least they raised their profile a bit.

Once this game is up, you might consider watching the 10pm clippers-Kings game, with a replay of the magic-wizards game as dessert.

Pretty soon they'll rename it the NDBA...

[timmy c]

And they'll select a pair of seven-footers.

Unfortunately, this is highly probable. The good news is jah's footwork and handle might enable the sixers to him to the pg position.

[FerryFor50]

Unfortunately, this is highly probable. The good news is jah's footwork and handle might enable the sixers to him to the pg position.

Not with 7 turnovers.

But he *is* 6-6 from the FT line!

20 pts, 7 boards ain't bad for a debut.

[Dukehky]

Not with 7 turnovers.

But he *is* 6-6 from the FT line!

20 pts, 7 boards ain't bad for a debut.

Ive watched this whole game, somehow. The vast majority of those turnovers came off double teams and the rest of his team is so bad. At most 3 TOs were on him.

[FerryFor50]

Ive watched this whole game, somehow. The vast majority of those turnovers came off double teams and the rest of his team is so bad. At most 3 TOs were on him.

I also saw a play where Jah got an offensive board, was on the block. He DRIBBLED IT TO THE FT line. Then started acting like he was throwing up a fadeaway jumper and tried to instead pass it to Canaan. Ball bounces out of bounds, but off Boston.

Rather than use his vast array of post moves to try to take a shot, he dribbled it out and threw a bad pass. He's a rookie - has a lot to learn. But turnovers are generally your own fault. :)

[FerryFor50]

On a more positive Duke note... goodness Justise!


https://vine.co/v/eYtDne9YPJz

[timmy c]

G
Not with 7 turnovers.

But he *is* 6-6 from the FT line!

20 pts, 7 boards ain't bad for a debut.

8 turnovers now. I hope you picked up on the sarcasm in my pg comment. Jah is going to be a heck of a post player. I hope the sixers can put some pieces around him soon.

[Edouble]

Just dropped Zeebo and picked up Jah off of free agency in my fantasy league. I will live with the turnovers.

[FerryFor50]

G

8 turnovers now. I hope you picked up on the sarcasm in my pg comment. Jah is going to be a heck of a post player. I hope the sixers can put some pieces around him soon.

Yea, I did. I was piling on. :D

[huey]

Not with 7 turnovers.

But he *is* 6-6 from the FT line!

20 pts, 7 boards ain't bad for a debut.

Almost ended with a triple double! 26 points, 7 boards, and...err 8 TOs.

[phaedrus]

On a more positive Duke note... goodness Justise!


https://vine.co/v/eYtDne9YPJz

Watching this and Jah tonight is the most basketball-related fun I've had since, oh, sometime in April.

[huey]

Nice 5/5 start to the game from Okafor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juSRVue5ch4&spfreload=10

[mr. synellinden]

On a more positive Duke note... goodness Justise!


https://vine.co/v/eYtDne9YPJz


+26 tonight to lead the team.

[BD80]

Rodney Hood starting for Utah.

The coach must appreciate Dukies

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Winslow was actually terrific tonight. Best he's looked in a Heat uniform including summer league and the preseason.

He was essentially the first guy off the bench for Miami. Haslem got in first but that was more about Whiteside being benched after having maybe the worst 4 minute stretch to start a season that I've ever seen. Winslow was first off the bench in the 2nd half. That massive +26 differential, which was by far the highest on the Heat, was not a fluke. He played well on both sides of the ball, and hit a 3 and had that dunk on back to back possessions that sparked the huge run that gave the Heat control of the game.

Whiteside, for what it's worth, once he got back in the game with about 3 minutes left in the 2nd quarter, was back to being good Whiteside, and basically neutralized Al Jefferson the rest of the way.

[DieHard]

20 minutes, 5-5 from the field, 3-3 from the line, 13 points, 3 rebounds, +20. Nice!

[luburch]

Watched my Pacers take on Toronto last night and it looks like it might be a long years for the Pacers. Toronto didn't look much better either. Not sure Bird was right trying to turn this Pacers team into a small ball team. The personnel doesn't seem to fit and they forced Hibbert away for nothing in the trade. Sigh.

[jimrowe0]

Okafor highlights from last night.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lebE73vtdr0

[oakvillebluedevil]

Okafor highlights from last night.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lebE73vtdr0


Thanks

He has acquired a serious green light if they're okay with him taking elbow jumpers off the bounce. If that shot becomes a credible part of his game, he's going to be absolutely lethal...

He's going to have some off nights (curious to see how he does against top tier athletic bigs like Deandre, Dwight, Davis etc.), but man that was exciting stuff

[Duke95]

Okafor was superb. Needs to get a handle on the TOs, but he's shooting free-throws well. He needs to get the ball more.
Justise...wow. Did you see the look on the bench when he dunked that? Play of the night for ESPN.

[Indoor66]

On a more positive Duke note... goodness Justise!


https://vine.co/v/eYtDne9YPJz

Down here we call that proper Justise!

[Billy Dat]

20 minutes, 5-5 from the field, 3-3 from the line, 13 points, 3 rebounds, +20. Nice!

The Knicks, in general, played out of their minds last night. Part of it was that the Bucks were missing the Freak, Jabari and Mayo, and they flat out stunk for most of the game, but Lance was his usual energizer bunny self. I have to say, and I wish I could find a clip, he unleashed a move I didn't think he was capable of. He got the ball on the wing, took a couple of dribbles, backed his man down a bit, faked like he was going to spin into the lane to get the defender to commit, and then spun back the other way for an easy lay-up.

On the other side, Miles got a few token minutes when the Bucks were still in the game but otherwise was bolted to the bench.

[phaedrus]

20 minutes, 5-5 from the field, 3-3 from the line, 13 points, 3 rebounds, +20. Nice!

Not bad for the 398th best player in the NBA.

Is Tyus getting shipped down to the D-League?

[theAlaskanBear]

Not bad for the 398th best player in the NBA.

Is Tyus getting shipped down to the D-League?

Tough to say, but I doubt it. The Timberwolves actually don't have an affiliated D-League team and they have mentioned that if they send him down there is no guarantee he would get the playing time and attention they want for him to develop. He won't get much playing time this season barring injury...but it is a matter if the Timbervoles feel he would help them in practice and improve watching from the bench/practice as opposed to D-league where they have little control. The Wolves are Forward heavy, I dont see much issue with carrying Tyus as 3rd PG, considering he is a good shooter.

[luburch]

First, I just wanted to say how happy I am to have basketball back again. I wasn't sure I was going to make it much longer.

Second, it's a shame that Mike Conley is never going to make an all-star game since he's stuck in the West. Impresses me every single time I watch him.

[Billy Dat]

Steph Curry's PER is current 50! I thought I'd recognize that (albeit eearly early season) amazing fact with this series of tweets from ESPN's David Thorpe who I think is really smart.

david b. thorpe ‏@coachthorpe Oct 31
Play this game with me. If Curry plays like this for the next 8 years, more or less, he'll end up as a top? player of all time. 5? 10?

david b. thorpe ‏@coachthorpe Oct 31
Curry is Steve Nash 2.0. An accomplishment of enormous significance.

david b. thorpe ‏@coachthorpe Oct 31
Curry takes shots that would have anyone else benched, but if he didn't take them, he'd need to be benched. No one else has that claim.

david b. thorpe ‏@coachthorpe Oct 31
Play one more game with me; how many teams would zoom to the favorite role as champs if they had Steph? At 1st glance, I came up with 7 or 8

[luburch]

Went to the Pacers/Celtics game last night. Paul George seems to be returning back to his old pre-injury form. I was worried, especially at the end of last year, that he would not be the player he once was. Hopefully he continues to progress.


Unfortunately, I passed out before getting to watch Clippers/Warriors. Seems that it was another amazing game. Wish I could see more of those two teams. Damn you west coast time zones.

[CDu]

An off-night for Curry last night. He only got 31 points (on 8-17 shooting, and 7-11 from 3pt range) with 5 rebounds and 4 assists. And led the team to a comeback victory in the 4th.

What he is doing right now is silly. He's scored more points in the first 5 games of a season than anyone since Jordan in the 1991-1992 season. His ballhandling has become otherworldly and his shooting has always been that way.

[Ichabod Drain]

An off-night for Curry last night. He only got 31 points (on 8-17 shooting, and 7-11 from 3pt range) with 5 rebounds and 4 assists. And led the team to a comeback victory in the 4th.

What he is doing right now is silly. He's scored more points in the first 5 games of a season than anyone since Jordan in the 1991-1992 season. His ballhandling has become otherworldly and his shooting has always been that way.

Rivers played well last night, couldn't sleep so I watched the second half. He D'd up Curry better than anyone in the game and Van Gundy was giving him serious credit for it. Was nice to hear.

The western conference is so much fun to watch.

[jimrowe0]

Oak highlights from last night, 21pts, 6rb, 2 blocks :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlTjYOIzhlA

[Billy Dat]

First off, can we collapse the two NBA threads into one and call it "2015-16 NBA Thread - Duke and General"? Anyone opposed?

Some significant praise for JJ from The Chosen One:

Coverage of last night's Cavs win over the Knicks:
(Lebron) James is just 2 of 18 this season on 3-pointers, but he's not worried about his long shot just yet.
"I'm just out of rhythm," he said. "I've got to work on it. It's not like I'm Steph Curry or J.J. Reddick anyway. But I did hit a big one tonight so I just got to get some reps."

[phaedrus]

Pretty satisfying to see Okafor swat Grievis into the stands. It also looks from the highlights like Miles spent a lot of time guarding Okafor - maybe Kidd thought he'd have some insider knowledge. It didn't appear to help.

[Indoor66]

Okafor may well have the best offensive game (well rounded) for a rookie center since Kareem. He will only get better and become scary good.

[mr. synellinden]

He Follows.

A great, great article on Chief Justise.

http://www.nba.com/heat/newsrecap/he-follows

And here's another short one - I love the reference to the Duke pedigree.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2015/11/03/winderman-justise-winslow-is-19-going-on-25/

[CDu]

The Bulls, after rolling over and playing dead against Charlotte (130 points allowed!?!?), come home and put together a nice win against OKC.

Derrick Rose had an impressive performance. After a 1-8 start, he took over for the last three quarters, finishing with 29 points (on 12-25, so an 11-17 finish), 7 assists, and 5 rebounds and just 2 turnovers.

It was a game with flashes of vintage Buls, too. Noah was doing his crazy-hustle Noah things. Gibson looked energized. Butler looked focused defensively. Big win. The question with the Bulls will be consistency. They have beaten Cleveland and OKC, but lost to Charlotte and Detroit. Gotta win more of the soft games on the schedule.

[luvdahops]

KAT played his first game against quality post defense last night and finished with 6 points on 3-13 shooting and 4 boards in 22 minutes as Minnesota was routed at home by the Heat.

[phaedrus]

KAT played his first game against quality post defense last night and finished with 6 points on 3-13 shooting and 4 boards in 22 minutes as Minnesota was routed at home by the Heat.

Justise led all players - Wade, Dragic, Bosh, last year's ROY, this year's #1 draft pick (actually, every #1 pick from the last 3 seasons) - in minutes with 36.

[huey]

First off, can we collapse the two NBA threads into one and call it "2015-16 NBA Thread - Duke and General"? Anyone opposed?



Seconded!

Bonus Jah gif (with Miles sighting!): http://gfycat.com/LongMessyHarrier
He's blowing people away with how calm he stays when he gets doubled...but I think we've seen plenty of plays like this.

And how's this for some company?
https://twitter.com/MaxRappaport/status/662257503015673856

[huey]

Big night for Dukies in the NBA. Bucks at Knicks, Jabari playing his way back into shape with the start. Ended 3/6 for 6 points in slightly increased 18 minutes. Miles made a brief appearance and made a circus shot and Thomas with a quiet, hustle 5. There was some Duke on Duke crime though: https://streamable.com/1w1g

Sixers gave the Cavs another tough one but the Cavs pulled away after the half. Jah with 18 and 6 (a little more!) and a few nice jump shots.

Game of the night was Heat-Pacers which went down to the wire since noone wanted to make free throws. Deng put up 9 and McRoberts finally got a couple of triples to fall. Winslow with a tough, tough matchup with Paul George. Winslow had career highs with 13/8 but George had a monster game with 36 on 14/27. Winslow was playing tough D but George showed why he was considered one of the best in the league before his injury. Spoelstra showed faith in Winslow, keeping him on George throughout the 4th and picking him for the inbounder on the last play. Will be a great learning experience for Justise. Announcers were raving over his strength and smart play.

[Edouble]

And in the nightcap, James Harden just won a jump ball against Willie Cauley-Stein.

[luburch]

So the Pelicans have now started 0-6. They have an unusual amount of injuries, but it's never good to dig yourself into a hole. Especially in the west.

The Grizzlies have also looked ugly early. Their clock may be beginning to run out.

[Billy Dat]

Check out this expert and powerful post footwork and finish by Andre Drummond
https://vine.co/v/elKLBJxJm5K

[luburch]

Check out this expert and powerful post footwork and finish by Andre Drummond
https://vine.co/v/elKLBJxJm5K

Drummond has been playing out of his mind to start the season. Currently averaging 20pts and 20rbs a game.

[Ichabod Drain]

Saw a stat last night that the Heat defense gives up 84 points per 100 possessions when Justise is on the court and something like 114 when he is off it. That is ridiculous impact from a rookie especially considering he has already been matched up with Lebron, Paul George and Kyle Lowry.

[Indoor66]

Saw a stat last night that the Heat defense gives up 84 points per 100 possessions when Justise is on the court and something like 114 when he is off it. That is ridiculous impact from a rookie especially considering he has already been matched up with Lebron, Paul George and Kyle Lowry.

I watch all of the Heat games and it is becoming clear that it is a better team with Winslow on the floor. He plays with a great deal of maturity. Occasionally he make rookie mistakes, but, he quickly seem to realize the reason for the error and then adjust. The Heat are starting to see him as the D. Wade successor. We shall see. I am enjoying the ride.

[JasonEvans]

Question to the folks who were dissing the Hawks a week or two ago... with 7 wins in a row and an NBA best 4-0 road record thus far, are ya'll starting to be believers? I think a top 3 seed is extremely likely for this team.

-Jason "Kent Bazemore ($2 mil salary) with Atlanta 12.1 ppg, 2.6 apg, 4.8 rpg, 18.81 PER -- DeMarre Carrol ($13.6 mil salary) with Toronto - 12.3ppg, 1.7 apg, 4.8 rpg, 9.15 PER" Evans

[luburch]

Question to the folks who were dissing the Hawks a week or two ago... with 7 wins in a row and an NBA best 4-0 road record thus far, are ya'll starting to be believers? I think a top 3 seed is extremely likely for this team.

-Jason "Kent Bazemore ($2 mil salary) with Atlanta 12.1 ppg, 2.6 apg, 4.8 rpg, 18.81 PER -- DeMarre Carrol ($13.6 mil salary) with Toronto - 12.3ppg, 1.7 apg, 4.8 rpg, 9.15 PER" Evans

I still haven't been able to catch a Hawks game this season, so I cannot provide an accurate assessment on hwo this team is performing beyond looking at a box score.

I will stand by what I said originally though. I thought they overachieved in the regular season last year and I still think that the Cavs, Bulls, Heat, and Wizards may finish above them. I like the Hawks, I enjoy watching Korver, I believe Teague is a underrated PG, etc. Just not convinced they can replicate last years results. Maybe I just have a bad taste in my mouth from how they finished the playoffs and that's not entirely fair.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Question to the folks who were dissing the Hawks a week or two ago... with 7 wins in a row and an NBA best 4-0 road record thus far, are ya'll starting to be believers? I think a top 3 seed is extremely likely for this team.

-Jason "Kent Bazemore ($2 mil salary) with Atlanta 12.1 ppg, 2.6 apg, 4.8 rpg, 18.81 PER -- DeMarre Carrol ($13.6 mil salary) with Toronto - 12.3ppg, 1.7 apg, 4.8 rpg, 9.15 PER" Evans

No. The Hawks were awesome last year during the ref season, but couldn't win a game against a motivated Cavs team that spanked them. Yes - the Hawks weren't healthy (but neither were the Cavs). These Hawks just aren't built for the playoffs. They win with hustle, smart play, and great coaching. But they lack the sheer talent and strength of the Cavs. I honestly believe that the Hawks will be a 2 seed, but I think they are the forth most potent team in the East when push comes to shove (after the Cavs, Bulls, and Heat).

[Billy Dat]

Question to the folks who were dissing the Hawks a week or two ago... with 7 wins in a row and an NBA best 4-0 road record thus far, are ya'll starting to be believers? I think a top 3 seed is extremely likely for this team.

-Jason "Kent Bazemore ($2 mil salary) with Atlanta 12.1 ppg, 2.6 apg, 4.8 rpg, 18.81 PER -- DeMarre Carrol ($13.6 mil salary) with Toronto - 12.3ppg, 1.7 apg, 4.8 rpg, 9.15 PER" Evans

I watched a full Hawks game when they played the Knicks last week and was very impressed. I think that opening night loss they suffered to the Pistons led to some of the naysaying but the Pistons obviously appear better than anyone thought in preseason so it's not a bad loss.


Just not convinced they can replicate last years results. Maybe I just have a bad taste in my mouth from how they finished the playoffs and that's not entirely fair.

I think that is a big part of their perception problem.


No. The Hawks were awesome last year during the ref season, but couldn't win a game against a motivated Cavs team that spanked them. Yes - the Hawks weren't healthy (but neither were the Cavs). These Hawks just aren't built for the playoffs. They win with hustle, smart play, and great coaching. But they lack the sheer talent and strength of the Cavs. I honestly believe that the Hawks will be a 2 seed, but I think they are the forth most potent team in the East when push comes to shove (after the Cavs, Bulls, and Heat).

I think there have been some below the radar upgrades that need mentioning. Getting Splitter from the Spurs was a great signing. Jason's original note talked about Bazemore who was quite effective when I saw him. Also, Dennis Schroder could be a real emerging star off the bench behind Teague by the end of the year. He is very tough and plays with a lot of cocky confidence. The big 3 of Millsap, Horford and Teague are star type players, and former ACC foes Mike Scott and Lamar Patterson give some nice pop off the bench.

These guys know what they are doing - they get the shots they want and play solid D - they are all business. They aren't exciting, but they are really good.

[Edouble]

Question to the folks who were dissing the Hawks a week or two ago... with 7 wins in a row and an NBA best 4-0 road record thus far, are ya'll starting to be believers? I think a top 3 seed is extremely likely for this team.

-Jason "Kent Bazemore ($2 mil salary) with Atlanta 12.1 ppg, 2.6 apg, 4.8 rpg, 18.81 PER -- DeMarre Carrol ($13.6 mil salary) with Toronto - 12.3ppg, 1.7 apg, 4.8 rpg, 9.15 PER" Evans

I would never diss the Hawks, but I am not a believer. The team that Danny started to build is still incomplete. I think a lot of our guys had their career years last season, and unfortunately, the biggest superstar we have is Grant Hill, who can only sit in the owner's box and watch (not that he does, I wonder how often he makes it to Atlanta though).

We will never make it out of the Eastern Conference. We are sort of the Virginia of the NBA. Good coach, a fair number of players on the cheap, but we are not contenders.

[JasonEvans]

One quick note...

There has been quite a bit of discussion in this thread about how various former Duke players are doing in the NBA. But, there is a separate thread that is dedicated to that subject (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?36534-Dukies-in-the-NBA-2015-16). This thread should really only be for discussion about teams or non-Duke players. Sure, if you are talking about how Miami compares to another team, you may bring up the plethora of Duke guys on the Miami team and that would be fine. But if your discussion is really just to say how great Justise is playing, that probably belongs in the other thread.

I hope this makes sense to everyone. I was tempted to move a bunch of posts from this thread to the other one, but it creates confusing threads and conversations when that happens so I will leave it alone for now. But, going forward, the mod team will be moving posts if they are not placed in the right thread. To make our jobs easier, we ask that you please try to adhere to the way we are attempting to organize the NBA discussion on the DBR.

Thanks!

-Jason

[Dev11]

One quick note...

There has been quite a bit of discussion in this thread about how various former Duke players are doing in the NBA. But, there is a separate thread that is dedicated to that subject (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?36534-Dukies-in-the-NBA-2015-16). This thread should really only be for discussion about teams or non-Duke players. Sure, if you are talking about how Miami compares to another team, you may bring up the plethora of Duke guys on the Miami team and that would be fine. But if your discussion is really just to say how great Justise is playing, that probably belongs in the other thread.

I hope this makes sense to everyone. I was tempted to move a bunch of posts from this thread to the other one, but it creates confusing threads and conversations when that happens so I will leave it alone for now. But, going forward, the mod team will be moving posts if they are not placed in the right thread. To make our jobs easier, we ask that you please try to adhere to the way we are attempting to organize the NBA discussion on the DBR.

Thanks!

-Jason

I changed the thread title to try to explain the difference more clearly. Thanks for looking out, Jason.

[Billy Dat]

This thread needs to keep bumping to remind everyone to watch Stephen Curry at every opportunity right now.

His PER is 37.12
He is averaging 33 ppg in 35 mpg.
He is shooting 53% from the field and 47% from 3.
He is averaging 5 made 3s per game
He is also averaging over 5 assists and 5 rebounds per game.
The Warriors are 10-0.
He leads the league, by several miles, in "Did I really just see that?" plays.

There were several last night when he dropped 46 on the TWolves. Here's a basket-by-basket recap. My favorite is at 0.44 secs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRYFR7Stvio

[luburch]

This thread needs to keep bumping to remind everyone to watch Stephen Curry at every opportunity right now.

His PER is 37.12
He is averaging 33 ppg in 35 mpg.
He is shooting 53% from the field and 47% from 3.
He is averaging 5 made 3s per game
He is also averaging over 5 assists and 5 rebounds per game.
The Warriors are 10-0.
He leads the league, by several miles, in "Did I really just see that?" plays.

There were several last night when he dropped 46 on the TWolves. Here's a basket-by-basket recap. My favorite is at 0.44 secs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRYFR7Stvio


Has there ever been a more exciting player to watch?

[Billy Dat]

Has there ever been a more exciting player to watch?

I was very vocal on this board last year about respecting him as a player but finding him annoying. His first ten games this year have left my jaw on the floor. People always would talk about "Steph Curry Heatcheck" twitter alerts, but these 10 games have basically been permanent heat check. When is he not in heat check mode?

I can't say he is more exciting than guys like Jordan and Bird and the other greats, when they had it rolling it was also awesome. But Curry does this stuff in the body of a seaming mere mortal. He is 6'3" and 185 pounds. None of what he does is "above the rim". I never thought about him as Maravich, but that is the kind of shotmaking, ball handling and passing flair he possesses, but it's all in service to the team. He is not a ballhog. While he sometimes takes "heat check" shots, for him they are normal shots. I don't cringe when the guy pulls up from 35 feet, I expect him to make it.

It's that Maravichian flair that is so exciting. When he gets the ball in his hands, you don't know what is about to happen. I'm a huge convert.

[BD80]

This thread needs to keep bumping to remind everyone to watch Stephen Curry at every opportunity right now.

His PER is 37.12
He is averaging 33 ppg in 35 mpg.
He is shooting 53% from the field and 47% from 3.
He is averaging 5 made 3s per game
He is also averaging over 5 assists and 5 rebounds per game.
The Warriors are 10-0.
He leads the league, by several miles, in "Did I really just see that?" plays.

There were several last night when he dropped 46 on the TWolves. Here's a basket-by-basket recap. My favorite is at 0.44 secs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRYFR7Stvio

Does he play any games before midnight? It is kinda like the PAC12, playing in the universe where missing socks go.

[huey]

Has there ever been a more exciting player to watch?

It just feels flat out unfair watching him play. I was too late to understand what I was watching with Jordan, but the only player that's been close is Lebron when you know he wants to score and just puts his head down and no one can stop him on the way to the basket. But what Lebron does with braun, Curry does with skill. It's like watching a professional dancer out there amongst a legion of zombies. No one is even close in keeping up. Really a living artwork.
And very unfair, placing the elder professor Andre Miller on him. Even if he looked slimmed down, he didn't have a chance. Really wish they would have let Tyus take a crack. He's undersized vs. a lot of NBA pg's, but that's the one thing Curry doesn't have. It would have been a great, humbling experience for him (unless he had the "Curry flu" that Rubio had, as Chuck calls it).

[flyingdutchdevil]

I was very vocal on this board last year about respecting him as a player but finding him annoying. His first ten games this year have left my jaw on the floor. People always would talk about "Steph Curry Heatcheck" twitter alerts, but these 10 games have basically been permanent heat check. When is he not in heat check mode?

I can't say he is more exciting than guys like Jordan and Bird and the other greats, when they had it rolling it was also awesome. But Curry does this stuff in the body of a seaming mere mortal. He is 6'3" and 185 pounds. None of what he does is "above the rim". I never thought about him as Maravich, but that is the kind of shotmaking, ball handling and passing flair he possesses, but it's all in service to the team. He is not a ballhog. While he sometimes takes "heat check" shots, for him they are normal shots. I don't cringe when the guy pulls up from 35 feet, I expect him to make it.

It's that Maravichian flair that is so exciting. When he gets the ball in his hands, you don't know what is about to happen. I'm a huge convert.

59 players in the NBA make more than Steph Curry (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/07/06/here-are-the-59-players-that-will-make-more-than-steph-curry-next-season/). Here are some of my favorite ones:

Teammates:
-Klay Thompson
-Draymond Green
-Andrew Bogut
-Andre Iguodala

Others:
-Nikola Pekovic
-Rudy Gay
-Ty Lawson
-Thaddeus Young
-Ricky Rubio
-Nene
-Robin Lopez
-Roy Hibbert
-Tobias Harris ($16M? Really?)
-DeMarre Carroll ($15M? Really?)
-Goran Dragic ($18M? Really?)
-Kemba Walker
-Eric Gordon
-Deron Williams
-Joe Johnson
-Kobe Bryant (a cool $25M)

[CDu]

I was very vocal on this board last year about respecting him as a player but finding him annoying. His first ten games this year have left my jaw on the floor. People always would talk about "Steph Curry Heatcheck" twitter alerts, but these 10 games have basically been permanent heat check. When is he not in heat check mode?

I can't say he is more exciting than guys like Jordan and Bird and the other greats, when they had it rolling it was also awesome. But Curry does this stuff in the body of a seaming mere mortal. He is 6'3" and 185 pounds. None of what he does is "above the rim". I never thought about him as Maravich, but that is the kind of shotmaking, ball handling and passing flair he possesses, but it's all in service to the team. He is not a ballhog. While he sometimes takes "heat check" shots, for him they are normal shots. I don't cringe when the guy pulls up from 35 feet, I expect him to make it.

It's that Maravichian flair that is so exciting. When he gets the ball in his hands, you don't know what is about to happen. I'm a huge convert.

Yeah, he's just ridiculous. It is amazing how much BETTER a player he is now than he was coming into the league. There were legitimate questions as to whether he had the ballhandling skills to be anything more than a (really good) catch-and-shoot player. He's eliminated all doubt on that front, and is in my opinion the best PG in the NBA today.

I think he's EXACTLY the type of player who has benefited from the league cleaning up the game on defense. In the 1990s or even the early 2000s, a guy like Curry would just get shoved around by a guy like Jason Kidd or Eric Snow and be rendered far less effective. But now, with the hand-check rules enforced, Curry is able to flourish despite his slight frame and average quickness/leaping ability.

He's made himself into one of the very best ballhandlers on the planet, his court vision is amazing, and oh yeah he just happens to also be the best shooter alive. He's just a joy to watch.

[luburch]

Yeah, he's just ridiculous. It is amazing how much BETTER a player he is now than he was coming into the league. There were legitimate questions as to whether he had the ballhandling skills to be anything more than a (really good) catch-and-shoot player. He's eliminated all doubt on that front, and is in my opinion the best PG in the NBA today.

I think he's EXACTLY the type of player who has benefited from the league cleaning up the game on defense. In the 1990s or even the early 2000s, a guy like Curry would just get shoved around by a guy like Jason Kidd or Eric Snow and be rendered far less effective. But now, with the hand-check rules enforced, Curry is able to flourish despite his slight frame and average quickness/leaping ability.

He's made himself into one of the very best ballhandlers on the planet, his court vision is amazing, and oh yeah he just happens to also be the best shooter alive. He's just a joy to watch.

Not only is he the best shooter in the NBA (probably ever), but is he the first elite shooter who can create his own shot?

[WillJ]

He does a lot of things well, but I think the thing that's really new is his ability to make threes off the dribble. It's unprecedented.

[mkirsh]

Yeah, he's just ridiculous. It is amazing how much BETTER a player he is now than he was coming into the league. There were legitimate questions as to whether he had the ballhandling skills to be anything more than a (really good) catch-and-shoot player. He's eliminated all doubt on that front, and is in my opinion the best PG in the NBA today.

His ball handling has become elite, likely best in the NBA. Maybe you could argue CP3 or Kyrie are a fraction better, but it's very very close. I stumbled across this article on some of the drills he does, which seem insane:

http://www.businessinsider.com/stephen-curry-flashing-lights-dribbling-drill-2015-1

In any case, he is must-see-tv (if you can stay up late)

[CDu]

Not only is he the best shooter in the NBA (probably ever), but is he the first elite shooter who can create his own shot?

Well, I think someone has already mentioned Maravich. He's probably the best example. Of course, Curry is probably a better shooter than Maravich. But yeah, the list of guys who can consistently create their own shot who are also phenomenal shooters is small. I'd put James Harden in the discussion (to a lesser degree on both creative skills and shooting, but in the discussion). Bob Cousy probably deserves mention as well. And Rick Barry.

Guys like Durant, Bird, and Nowitzki are/were great shooters who could get their own shot too. But are able to get their shot off not because of great ballhandling but because of their size, so I suspect they don't fit what you were envisioning.

[phaedrus]

His ball handling has become elite, likely best in the NBA. Maybe you could argue CP3 or Kyrie are a fraction better, but it's very very close. I stumbled across this article on some of the drills he does, which seem insane:

http://www.businessinsider.com/stephen-curry-flashing-lights-dribbling-drill-2015-1

In any case, he is must-see-tv (if you can stay up late)

I don't remember if I saw this on this board or elsewhere, but earlier this year Allen Iverson admitted that Curry's and Irving's ball-handling are on a whole different level from his.

http://www.slamonline.com/nba/allen-iverson-on-kyrie-irving-and-steph-curry-i-didnt-have-the-handle-they-do/#A4TdGwXs4grrokRw.97

[nmduke2001]

Well, I think someone has already mentioned Maravich. He's probably the best example. Of course, Curry is probably a better shooter than Maravich. But yeah, the list of guys who can consistently create their own shot who are also phenomenal shooters is small. I'd put James Harden in the discussion (to a lesser degree on both creative skills and shooting, but in the discussion). Bob Cousy probably deserves mention as well. And Rick Barry.

Guys like Durant, Bird, and Nowitzki are/were great shooters who could get their own shot too. But are able to get their shot off not because of great ballhandling but because of their size, so I suspect they don't fit what you were envisioning.

I actually think Curry is Steve Nash with a quicker shot. Bear with me here:
Nash was quietly one of the best shooters ever. There are only 6 players in NBA history to go 90-50-40 (90% FT, 50% field, 40% 3-point) and Nash did it 4 times and narrowly missed a 5th and 6th by one % point.
Nash was one of the most creative passers ever. Amare and Joe Johnson should write Nash royalty checks every week. He made those guys so much money.
Nash had incredible handles.

Curry is all of that with the ability to get the shot off quicker and defend much better.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Does he play any games before midnight? It is kinda like the PAC12, playing in the universe where missing socks go.

I watched him last night for the first time this season, specifically because the game started at 8pm. Truly amazing to watch.

I was conversing with my neighbor the other day, talking about being my age watching MJ (he was at his prime when I was 12-15 and very impressionable) and wondering if anything will match that sort of aura around him that he had at that time. I explained that even as someone who didn't give a rip about the Bulls, if I ran across MJ's teams on TV, I would stop what I was doing and watch to the end. My neighbor responded "you clearly haven't watched Curry yet this year."

He's right. Fascinating to watch.

[Billy Dat]

It's like watching a professional dancer out there amongst a legion of zombies. No one is even close in keeping up. Really a living artwork.
And very unfair, placing the elder professor Andre Miller on him. Even if he looked slimmed down, he didn't have a chance. Really wish they would have let Tyus take a crack.

Great imagery. As for Tyus, the poor kid just earned his ability to dress for games. No need for him to get flayed on national TV. I'd rather his cut his teeth on some lesser PGs before he tackles the man, who in the early running, looks primed for his second consecutive MVP.


59 players in the NBA make more than Steph Curry

With the cap about to make a huge jump, I am thinking Joe Lacob will open the coffers and rework this deal so that he's the maxiest of maxes.


It is amazing how much BETTER a player he is now than he was coming into the league. There were legitimate questions as to whether he had the ballhandling skills to be anything more than a (really good) catch-and-shoot player. He's eliminated all doubt on that front, and is in my opinion the best PG in the NBA today.

This and your other points about the defensive changes are all very good. This just shows that even the best can keep getting better. Every time I see Lance Thomas hit a 3 for the Knicks I say the same thing. Shooting and ball-handling can be dramatically improved with the right coaching and dogged hard/focused work.


But yeah, the list of guys who can consistently create their own shot who are also phenomenal shooters is small. I'd put James Harden in the discussion (to a lesser degree on both creative skills and shooting, but in the discussion). Bob Cousy probably deserves mention as well. And Rick Barry.

Timely tweet from Tom Haberstroh on this topic:

Tom Haberstroh ‏@tomhaberstroh 24m24 minutes ago
Stephen Curry and James Harden have each taken 53 threes off the dribble this season. Harden has made 10. Curry has made 26.

[luburch]

If you're starting a NBA franchise today and your goal is to be the best team for the next five years - do you start a franchise around Anthony Davis or Steph Curry?

[pfrduke]

Great imagery. As for Tyus, the poor kid just earned his ability to dress for games. No need for him to get flayed on national TV. I'd rather his cut his teeth on some lesser PGs before he tackles the man, who in the early running, looks primed for his second consecutive MVP.

When Tyus got in late, they put him on Klay Thompson. First defensive possession, Golden State immediately ran a play to get Thompson isolated on him in the post - easy bucket. Life in the NBA is not easy...

[CDu]

I actually think Curry is Steve Nash with a quicker shot. Bear with me here:
Nash was quietly one of the best shooters ever. There are only 6 players in NBA history to go 90-50-40 (90% FT, 50% field, 40% 3-point) and Nash did it 4 times and narrowly missed a 5th and 6th by one % point.
Nash was one of the most creative passers ever. Amare and Joe Johnson should write Nash royalty checks every week. He made those guys so much money.
Nash had incredible handles.

Curry is all of that with the ability to get the shot off quicker and defend much better.

The Nash comp is a pretty good one. I think Curry is a better shooter off the dribble than Nash (frankly, part of what makes Curry so amazing is that he can hit such a variety of shots from such a variety of angles), whereas Nash had a bit better court vision (very few players ever could pass like him). But there are a lot of similarities there.

[COYS]

When Tyus got in late, they put him on Klay Thompson. First defensive possession, Golden State immediately ran a play to get Thompson isolated on him in the post - easy bucket. Life in the NBA is not easy...

I was about to make the same comment. The sophistication of NBA offenses is a massive step above college. Tyus stood absolutely no chance against the 6'7'' Thompson that close to the basket. I think Tyus will do well in the league, but yeah, that was a rude introduction to how difficult it is to hide a bad defender in the NBA, especially against the most efficient offense in the league. For all the love Curry gets, the Warriors are also exceedingly well coached and take advantage of every mismatch they get with impunity.

[moonpie23]

i liked steph curry AND the warriors AND steve kerr a LOT more before they got that MASSIVE a-HOLE, HWNSNBM....


i'll just be a little later to to curry-worship table........sorry...

[flyingdutchdevil]

The Nash comp is a pretty good one. I think Curry is a better shooter off the dribble than Nash (frankly, part of what makes Curry so amazing is that he can hit such a variety of shots from such a variety of angles), whereas Nash had a bit better court vision (very few players ever could pass like him). But there are a lot of similarities there.

I think we're selling Steve Nash short as a passer. Nash averaged 8.5 assists per game with a career high of 11.6 in '06-07. He led the league 5 times in passing. Nash also had an A/TO of 2.97. Curry, thus far, has averaged 6.9 assists for his career with a high of 8.5 (two years ago). Given Curry's scoring prowess, I doubt he'll ever hit those numbers again (he's only averaging 5.6 assists this year). Also, Curry's A/TO is also excellent at 2.62, but it's not Nash-esque.

[CDu]

I think we're selling Steve Nash short as a passer. Nash averaged 8.5 assists per game with a career high of 11.6 in '06-07. He led the league 5 times in passing. Nash also had an A/TO of 2.97. Curry, thus far, has averaged 6.9 assists for his career with a high of 8.5 (two years ago). Given Curry's scoring prowess, I doubt he'll ever hit those numbers again (he's only averaging 5.6 assists this year). Also, Curry's A/TO is also excellent at 2.62, but it's not Nash-esque.

I don't think I'm selling Nash short, because I said very few players could pass like him. Curry is the better/more versatile shooter/scorer; Nash the better passer. There's just a fair amount of overlap in their skill sets.

Curry is more of a small SG good enough to play PG well, whereas Nash was all PG.

[WillJ]

I think Nash would have been more effective if he had shot more, particularly from three point range. I don't think he had the personality for it, but it's also more acceptable for NBA point guards to shoot a lot - if Nash were playing as a 28-yearold in today's league I think he'd be averaging 24 ppg.

[huey]

When Tyus got in late, they put him on Klay Thompson. First defensive possession, Golden State immediately ran a play to get Thompson isolated on him in the post - easy bucket. Life in the NBA is not easy...

Ha, that's crazy. I stopped watching by that point. I really hope that happened on a switch considering they had their SG, Zach Lavine, running point most of the night (is he their SG, or combo guard behind Rubio?). What's the point in putting your 6-foot true point guard on a towering shooting guard who's as tall as Draymond Green (I know 6'7" isn't KD or Greek Freak height, but c'mon Klay looms over JJ when they play)? Only Battier would stand a chance in mismatch of those proportions.


i liked steph curry AND the warriors AND steve kerr a LOT more before they got that MASSIVE a-HOLE, HWNSNBM...


i'll just be a little later to to curry-worship table....sorry...

I had a similar mindset as you till last night. It's been talked about on the board previously but I'm definitely in the hometown team first (Knicks), Duke player teams second, and UNC-player teams as my anti-cheer category. Sports are all absurd when you boil it down so it's nice having things to cheer for (Duke!) or against (UNC). So I was thoroughly in the Cavs corner last year. To be honest, without Barnes, the Warriors would have been my favorite-no reason to cheer for team since they play the game so well.
But last night was just nuts. And he's been doing it all year. Now it's not even watching the Warriors anymore. It's not about the Splash Brothers. It's just Curry. He's just a force. The three is just so valuable and he's just too good at shooting it.



Thanks for teaching me about multi-quoting today, Billy Dat! Most productive thing I did today...

[flyingdutchdevil]

I don't think I'm selling Nash short, because I said very few players could pass like him. Curry is the better/more versatile shooter/scorer; Nash the better passer. There's just a fair amount of overlap in their skill sets.

Curry is more of a small SG good enough to play PG well, whereas Nash was all PG.

You did mention that Nash "bit better court vision" than Curry, whereas I think Nash is in extremely rare company. Curry is a really good passer, Nash is elite. But, then again, Nash was a really good scorer, Curry is elite.

[CDu]

You did mention that Nash "bit better court vision" than Curry, whereas I think Nash is in extremely rare company. Curry is a really good passer, Nash is elite. But, then again, Nash was a really good scorer, Curry is elite.

Well I do think Curry has exceptional court vision. I don't think he's nearly the passer that Nash was. But I think he sees the floor almost as well. He just does so for the purposes of his own scoring (setting up his man, finding the open seams, etc) rather than to thread the perfect pass the way Nash did.

[sagegrouse]

What Steph Curry and Steve Nash have in common: Two ordinary-sized guys who were MVPs of the NBA.

Sage
'Of course, I would love to be as tall as either -- 6-3'
"Kudos also to Derrick Rose, Allen Iverson, and Bob Cousy. It's amazing, in retrospect, that Jerry West was never MVP and Oscar was named only once. In their era, it was usually a center -- Russell or Wilt or, later, Kareem"

[elvis14]

Love the Steph Curry discussion. Add me to the list of guys that love watching him play. It's great for me that he's on the west coast and that games come on late. That's when the kids are in bed and I have time to watch. I think the Nash comparison is a pretty good one and agree that Nash was an elite passer and Curry is an elite scorer but that there's lots of overlap. I loved watching Nash play as well. As for Harry Skype, as with all UNC players, I hope he never scores a point. Love watching the Warriors play despite HWMNBN.

Someone asked if I was going to start a team if I'd pick A.Davis or S.Curry. That's a really tough choice because I love Curry's game and I think he's a pretty good guy but traditional wisdom tells me that picking the best young big man is always a good place to start.

[FireOgilvie]

When Tyus got in late, they put him on Klay Thompson. First defensive possession, Golden State immediately ran a play to get Thompson isolated on him in the post - easy bucket. Life in the NBA is not easy...

Tyus got a chance to match up with Curry after that... it didn't go well.

https://youtu.be/k7ZvM0eFwOU?t=3m52s

[NSDukeFan]

Tyus got a chance to match up with Curry after that... it didn't go well.

https://youtu.be/k7ZvM0eFwOU?t=3m52s

Someone should guard that guy. Thanks BillyDat for starting or continuing the Steph Curry discussion. He is so fun to watch. I agree with the Nash - Curry comparisons as I also think there is a lot of overlap in their skill sets and they both changed/are changing the game.

[nmduke2001]

5699

This was tweeted out a few weeks ago. Curry is smart to be working with Nash.

[Potato Head]

At this point I think a Curry/Nash comparison is more kind to Nash than it is to Curry.

[elvis14]

At this point I think a Curry/Nash comparison is more kind to Nash than it is to Curry.

Maybe by a little bit but Nash didn't win two MVP awards for nothing. He was really really good and fun to watch. I Curry better and more fun to watch, sure, but Nash doesn't need Curry comparisons to make him look good.

[Billy Dat]

Thanks BillyDat for starting or continuing the Steph Curry discussion.

Me and the rest of the concious world, ha ha. But, as always seems to happen, the crest of the hype lanced the boil and he had a very bad game by his standards last night against the lowly Nets. Being in NY, I get the Nets feed and taped the game to watch Curry. The Warriors were without Klay and dug out of an early 20 point hole to take a late lead. Curry was missing 3s and committing turnovers down the stretch - and being outplayed by Jarrett Jack. Water found its level as the Nets, with a lead and under 20 secs to play couldnt advance the ball over halfcourt. Iggy nailed a 3 to tie with 6 secs left and then Brook Lopez missed a perfectly executed inbounds alley-oops game winner with 0.5 left - it was perfect, almost harder to miss than make. Ws rolled in OT to stay indefeated.

[Trey21]

Maybe by a little bit but Nash didn't win two MVP awards for nothing. He was really really good and fun to watch. I Curry better and more fun to watch, sure, but Nash doesn't need Curry comparisons to make him look good.

True, but still can you believe that Nash has more MVPs than Kobe, Shaq, and KG? And he has the same amount as the PF GOAT - TD? Those "Seven Seconds or Less" Sun's teams changed how the NBA played with their proto-space/pace philosophy, and he was surely the most important player on those Suns teams, but Curry is on another level. He's a better shooter and defender. Nash is definitely a superb PG, definitely top 3 of his generation but Curry's peak has reach higher and he has the chance to crack into the discussion of all time greats (thinking like top 30-50 players), something I think Nash is on the outside looking in at.

[darthur]

Me and the rest of the concious world, ha ha. But, as always seems to happen, the crest of the hype lanced the boil and he had a very bad game by his standards last night against the lowly Nets. Being in NY, I get the Nets feed and taped the game to watch Curry. The Warriors were without Klay and dug out of an early 20 point hole to take a late lead. Curry was missing 3s and committing turnovers down the stretch - and being outplayed by Jarrett Jack. Water found its level as the Nets, with a lead and under 20 secs to play couldnt advance the ball over halfcourt. Iggy nailed a 3 to tie with 6 secs left and then Brook Lopez missed a perfectly executed inbounds alley-oops game winner with 0.5 left - it was perfect, almost harder to miss than make. Ws rolled in OT to stay indefeated.

You know you're good when 34 points on 31 shots, 6 assists, 4 turnovers counts as a "very bad game" :). Not that I'm disagreeing.

[BD80]

Should we change the title to the Steph Curry thread?

[sagegrouse]

True, but still can you believe that Nash has more MVPs than Kobe, Shaq, and KG? And he has the same amount as the PF GOAT - TD? Those "Seven Seconds or Less" Sun's teams changed how the NBA played with their proto-space/pace philosophy, and he was surely the most important player on those Suns teams, but Curry is on another level. He's a better shooter and defender. Nash is definitely a superb PG, definitely top 3 of his generation but Curry's peak has reach higher and he has the chance to crack into the discussion of all time greats (thinking like top 30-50 players), something I think Nash is on the outside looking in at.

I dunno, Trey. Here's a list of multiple MVP winners, sorted by position. Twelve guys... and that team can use Steve Nash.



5 Bill Russell
4 Wilt Chamberlain
6 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3 Moses Malone

2 Tim Duncan
4 LeBron James
3 Larry Bird
2 Karl Malone
2 Bob Pettit

2 Steve Nash
5 Michael Jordan
3 Magic Johnson


The other guards who were MVP's include Stephen Curry, Derrick Rose and Allen Iverson. Kobe is listed as a guard-forward. The Big O was a forward, and the Logo (Jerry West) was never an MVP. How does one say Steve Nash is not one of the top 30 NBA all-time players, much less one of the top 50?

[vick]

The other guards who were MVP's include Stephen Curry, Derrick Rose and Allen Iverson. Kobe is listed as a guard-forward. The Big O was a forward, and the Logo (Jerry West) was never an MVP. How does one say Steve Nash is not one of the top 30 NBA all-time players, much less one of the top 50?

These all-time lists are always problematic (do we account for the fact that the talent pool today is vastly larger and training resources far more developed than when Oscar was racking up triple doubles?), but even if you ignore that, I don't have any problem saying Nash falls outside of the all-time top-30. While a great player, Nash's MVPs were probably undeserved--he was a below-average defender (unlike Curry (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2015/sort/DRPM/position/1)) and benefited from the joy basketball fans had that we were finally getting out of the post-Jordan malaise of clutching defenders and iso play. Stats, of course, aren't everything, but it's telling that 1) in most major "all-in-one" metrics (e.g., PER), Nash not only wasn't the best player in his MVP years, he wasn't even close, and 2) the Mavs actually got better after Nash left, going from 52 to 58 wins in Nash's first MVP year (his first with the Suns). Certainly, Nash was a great player who will deservedly be in the Hall of Fame, but Curry right now is playing substantially better than Nash ever did.

[Billy Dat]

You know you're good when 34 points on 31 shots, 6 assists, 4 turnovers counts as a "very bad game" :). Not that I'm disagreeing.

It's funny, I watched the 2nd-4th quarters and knew he was scoring but all his other brilliance was muted. It does show how high a bar he has set. His PER is down to 35.5. :cool:

[elvis14]

True, but still can you believe that Nash has more MVPs than Kobe, Shaq, and KG? And he has the same amount as the PF GOAT - TD? Those "Seven Seconds or Less" Sun's teams changed how the NBA played with their proto-space/pace philosophy, and he was surely the most important player on those Suns teams, but Curry is on another level. He's a better shooter and defender. Nash is definitely a superb PG, definitely top 3 of his generation but Curry's peak has reach higher and he has the chance to crack into the discussion of all time greats (thinking like top 30-50 players), something I think Nash is on the outside looking in at.

Trey, I agree with you. Curry is on another level and you make a great point about his peak. I just wanted to make sure Nash was being given his due as well. I really loved watching him play and I love watching Curry play as well. I like the Curry/Nash comparison. As good as Curry has been of late, it's hard to find a good comparison.

[Billy Dat]

Should we change the title to the Steph Curry thread?

NO!

Here's a fun digression...Russ Westbrook reacting to the claim from a reporter that Marcus Smart can match him athletically after the Celtics beat OKC last night:
https://twitter.com/MrMichaelLee/status/666284747920949248

[CDu]

NO!

Here's a fun digression...Russ Westbrook reacting to the claim from a reporter that Marcus Smart can match him athletically after the Celtics beat OKC last night:
https://twitter.com/MrMichaelLee/status/666284747920949248

Yeah, I gotta agree with Westbrook. Though it is hard to say what he is saying there. But in terms of athleticism, there isn't really anybody in Westbrook's class now that Rose is not as explosive as he used to be. Amazing speed, amazing hops, great strength. Smart is a really good athlete himself, but Westbrook is in a whole other tier physically.

[CDu]

Kudos to the Pistons. They've now beaten Atlanta (on the road), Chicago, and Cleveland. Strangely, they have also lost to the Lakers and Kings. But that's still an impressive trio of scalps for this young team. Andre Drummond is piling up the rebounds playing volleyball with himself.

[Billy Dat]

Tweet:
@johnpodesta
Hillary's strategy to defeat Isis:
✓Defeat Isis in Syria & Iraq
✓Disrupt & dismantle terrorist infrastructure
✓Harden our defenses

Reply:
‏@BobbyBigWheel
If she can involve James Harden on defense she deserves to be elected president

[pfrduke]

The Warriors, and Steph Curry in particular, are just silly. That was a masterful last 14 minutes of basketball.

[Ichabod Drain]

The Warriors, and Steph Curry in particular, are just silly. That was a masterful last 14 minutes of basketball.

I watched the whole game last night and it was a good one. Though I've found that I have slowly turned against the Warriors. I think it's the type of thing that happens when someone goes from the underdog to the favorite. Not to mention I'm rooting hard for Austin, he's really coming into his role out there.

[cato]

I watched the whole game last night and it was a good one. Though I've found that I have slowly turned against the Warriors. I think it's the type of thing that happens when someone goes from the underdog to the favorite. Not to mention I'm rooting hard for Austin, he's really coming into his role out there.

When Crawford picked up his fourth foul and Austin checked in during the 3rd period, it was interesting to hear Reggie Miller comment that the offense dropped off when Crawford went to the bench, but that he really liked what Rivers brought to the table defensively.

I fell asleep a few minutes into the 4th. Did I miss anything?

[Dukehky]

I watched the whole game last night and it was a good one. Though I've found that I have slowly turned against the Warriors. I think it's the type of thing that happens when someone goes from the underdog to the favorite. Not to mention I'm rooting hard for Austin, he's really coming into his role out there.

And against Harrison Barnes... Draymond is the kind of guy you like when he's on your team and just unequivocally despise when he is on another team.

[Furniture]

Gosh the Lakers are bad. I am off work tomorrow so I thought I might enjoy staying up late and watching the games vs. the Warriors. Doesn't look like I'll make it. My bed is calling and it's not worth the effort!!
Can't understand why Ryan isn't given a chance....

[g-money]

The Golden State - Utah game was highly entertaining this evening with some eerie parallels to the Duke-Butler final in 2010.

Utah actually found themselves down 1 with the ball with 10 seconds left. Rodney Hood takes an ill-advised three for Utah and misses. The ball is batted around a bit, and lands in Steph Curry's hands (who played a baller 4th quarter, btw). Curry is promptly fouled with 2.4 seconds left.

Utah, under the sage leadership of Quin Snyder, has no timeouts left, unfortunately. Curry makes the first free throw: 105-103 Warriors.

He should miss the second FT, right? No, with young Luke Walton at the helm instead of the GOAT, Curry makes the second. 106-103 Warriors.

The Jazz are out of timeouts. They quickly pass it in to - you guessed it - Gordon Hayward, who takes a last-gasp 50 footer from the right side, just before half court... and airballs it.

Anyway, it was a similar enough ending to the Duke-Butler thriller that I thought this would be of interest to those who fell asleep on the couch.

The Warriors are 19-0.

[Li_Duke]

Kobe Bryant is retiring. He announces his retirement by poem!
http://www.theplayerstribune.com/dear-basketball/

[flyingdutchdevil]

Kobe Bryant is retiring. He announces his retirement by poem!
http://www.theplayerstribune.com/dear-basketball/

I think he's got his team confused. JJ is on the Clippers!

[brevity]

Kobe Bryant is retiring. He announces his retirement by poem!
http://www.theplayerstribune.com/dear-basketball/


I think he's got his team confused. JJ is on the Clippers!

At this point, a Staples Center Poetry Slam would be more competitive than a Lakers-Clippers game.

[JasonEvans]

Kobe Bryant is retiring. He announces his retirement by poem!
http://www.theplayerstribune.com/dear-basketball/

Maybe I read it wrong, but just because he put together short sentences and hit <return> after every few words, that does not make it a poem.

-Jason "I'm a lousy judge of poetry, I guess" Evans

[huey]

Don't look now but Kobe came out firing in Philly with three quick 3 pointers. (but seriously, don't look at the # of FGA).

Touching tribute by Philly where Kobe played high school ball. Much nicer than the battle of the bottom the game will be.

[Furniture]

Don't look now but Kobe came out firing in Philly with three quick 3 pointers. (but seriously, don't look at the # of FGA).

Touching tribute by Philly where Kobe played high school ball. Much nicer than the battle of the bottom the game will be.

He was 7 for 26 in the end and was 4 for 17 for 3 pointers. Terrible and no wonder they lost. Meanwhile Ryan sits on the bench?

[Billy Dat]

Don't look now but Kobe came out firing in Philly with three quick 3 pointers. (but seriously, don't look at the # of FGA).

Touching tribute by Philly where Kobe played high school ball. Much nicer than the battle of the bottom the game will be.

Henry Abbott and David Thorpe talk a bit about the 76ers tanking philosophy on this 10 minute TrueHoop video:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/73748/the-76ers-and-the-long-tedious-process

I am posting it because they briefly discuss the idea of eliminating the NBA Draft and just letting free market reign as a way to reward smart front offices and force the weaker ones to improve, and it would basically eliminate tanking. The salary cap would still prevent a great franchise from signing everyone, but if all the top guys wanted to go to San Antonio, for example, they could line-up and try and win that contract. If 5 of the best 18 year olds decided they wanted to re-invigorate the Lakers, have at it! I had really heard that idea floated, it's interesting.

[Skitzle]

He was 7 for 26 in the end and was 4 for 17 for 3 pointers. Terrible and no wonder they lost. Meanwhile Ryan sits on the bench?

But he gave his hometown the win! Successful night. Good work Mamba.

[huey]

But he gave his hometown the win! Successful night. Good work Mamba.

I think he might come out of retirement now after the Lakers win against the Wizards. 31 points and making the go ahead shots? 10/24 but Kobe's always been fine with a stat line like that. I'm only half joking, but how many games like that would it take for him to think he's overcome his 2 injuries? At least it's better than a string of 2/17 games. Those were just hard to watch and you just end up feeling bad.

[tbyers11]

Steph Curry with 40 pts on 18 FGA at Charlotte on the night they honored Dell at half.

He scored 28 of Golden State's 33 pts in the 3Q including the last 24 in a row.

Find the highlights now.

[COYS]

Steph Curry with 40 pts on 18 FGA at Charlotte on the night they honored Dell at half.

He scored 28 of Golden State's 33 pts in the 3Q including the last 24 in a row.

Find the highlights now.

Interesting breakdown of Curry's progression from FiveThirtyEight (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/stephen-curry-is-the-revolution/).

He really does break all the rules. For all the talk about Lebron and his rank in the pantheon of NBA players, it was always impossible to think you could ever sit there and say "this guy is the best ____ ever." Maybe we say he is a top 3 NBA player of all time. But you never would say that he is absolutely the best player, the best scorer, the best defender, the best distributor, or any superlative like that.

With Steph, I feel like we can safely conclude that he is THE BEST shooter, ever. The difficult shots he takes and makes with great efficiency simply put him on his own planet. I even wonder if we are currently witnessing arguably the greatest offensive season by an individual player, ever, especially when you consider the resources opposing defenses have at their disposal to try and slow Steph down. They can see all of his tendencies, analyze his shot charts, dissect all of the Warrior's schemes to get Curry the ball in the best possible situation . . . and all of that hasn't stopped him from being even better this year than last.

There's still a ways to go in the season, so Curry could come back down from having the "best season ever" to just having "one of the best seasons, ever." But man, it is fun to watch him play (and I have no love for the Warriors. I'm a Hawks fan but the Spurs have been my second favorite team since '99).

[Listen to Quants]

Henry Abbott and David Thorpe talk a bit about the 76ers tanking philosophy on this 10 minute TrueHoop video:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/73748/the-76ers-and-the-long-tedious-process

I am posting it because they briefly discuss the idea of eliminating the NBA Draft and just letting free market reign as a way to reward smart front offices and force the weaker ones to improve, and it would basically eliminate tanking. The salary cap would still prevent a great franchise from signing everyone, but if all the top guys wanted to go to San Antonio, for example, they could line-up and try and win that contract. If 5 of the best 18 year olds decided they wanted to re-invigorate the Lakers, have at it! I had really heard that idea floated, it's interesting.

Interesting indeed. Then too, it would be interesting to also free up the franchise location restraints to really allow competition. Four NYC teams?

[cspan37421]

Interesting - the five thirty-eight author claims that Byron Scott is sort of anti-three-pointer. Perhaps that's part of the reason we don't see Ryan getting that much court time?

Great article by the way. A nerd's delight.

[CDu]

Interesting - the five thirty-eight author claims that Byron Scott is sort of anti-three-pointer. Perhaps that's part of the reason we don't see Ryan getting that much court time?

Great article by the way. A nerd's delight.

I think the more likely reasons that Kelly isn't playing are (a) they have two PFs they have invested in that are more talented than him, and (b) he hasn't played well enough to deserve a look over them.

Last year, Kelly shot 34%. Not 34% from 3pt range (though he did do that too), 34% from the field. He was a negative value player. So far this year, he is shooting just 36% from the field. Not exactly giving reason to bump Randle or Bass from the rotation.

[awhom111]

Fox Sports South capitalizes on Curry living room commercials:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHHWSSij4Tw

[Indoor66]

Fox Sports South capitalizes on Curry living room commercials:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHHWSSij4Tw

Sonja is still HOT!

[Furniture]

We really need to have a 'like' button!!

[Edouble]

Bucks up on the Warriors at halftime 59-48.

GS is shooting 2-13 from three point range (Klay and Curry are both 1-4).

Greek Freak is working on a triple double with 9, 8, and 7 already.

Our own Jabari Parker is leading the +/- column for the game with a +18.

ESPN is broadcasting a 30 for 30.

[Billy Dat]

I am not an Adrian Wojnarowski fan due to his consistent slamming of K, but I can deny his importance and influence as THE most wired-in NBA reporter.

They just announced a Woj-helmed vertical NBA site, "The Vertical" within Yahoo with an accompanying podcast.
http://yahoosports.tumblr.com/post/135316790293/woj-interviews-nba-commissioner-adam-silver-in-new?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma

[CDu]

It's been a few weeks, so I thought I'd give this thread a revival. The Warriors and Spurs just keep winning. The Warriors are up to 31-2, but Curry is banged up. Hopefully he gets back to healthy soon. I suspect he'll wear a pad on that shin for a while. They are putting together an unbelievable season. Quietly, though, the Spurs aren't far behind. At 29-6, they are on pace for a 68-win season! These two teams have clearly be the cream of the NBA crop so far this year.

Lurking not too far behind the Spurs are the Thunder (24-10) and Cavs (22-9). Both teams are legitimate contenders to the big boys atop the West.

As a Bulls fan, my Bulls are sitting at 20-12. It isn't pretty at all (mainly because Gasol is a maddening combination of skill and lethargy), but they keep beating good teams. Jimmy Butler is solidifying his case as the man in Chicago, dropping 40 in the second half yesterday to beat the Raptors and move to second in the East (just barely, the Heat, Hawks, and Raptors are right behind them).

But how about the middle of the Eastern conference? There are two teams in the East with winning records that would miss the playoffs if they were to start today (Charlotte and Detroit). It seems that the East and West have flipflopped a bit, with only 6 teams in the West having winning records.

[JasonEvans]

But how about the middle of the Eastern conference? There are two teams in the East with winning records that would miss the playoffs if they were to start today (Charlotte and Detroit). It seems that the East and West have flipflopped a bit, with only 6 teams in the West having winning records.

I just came looking for this thread to make the very same point about the East suddenly being deeper than the West, a real reversal of what we have seen for many years. Here are a few other small statistical notes on the season thus far:

Andre Drummond is averaging better than 16 rebounds per game. No oen has topped 16 rpg since The Worm did it in 1996-97.

Hassan Whiteside is averaging more than 4 blocks per game. No one has done that for an entire season since Mutombo in 1995-96. As an aside, Whiteside is making $900k this season and is an unrestricted free agent after this year. He will almost certainly get a massive contract in the $20+ mil per season range next year. Wow!

But the most remarkable stat so far belongs to DeAnde Jordan, who is shooting .727 from the field. Last year, he set a NBA record by hitting 71% of his shots from the field, the first player in history with a FG% above 70%. This year, he is even better. Now, I know that he pretty much only dunks the ball and shoots layups, but that FG% is still waaaay impressive.

-Jason "after his insane start, Steph has really cooled off... he averaged 39.3 ppg in Oct, 30.1 in Nov, 28.7 in Dec, and (thanks to injury) just 17.5 so far in Jan... expect that Jan figure to shoot up tho as he gets healthy" Evans

[CDu]

I just came looking for this thread to make the very same point about the East suddenly being deeper than the West, a real reversal of what we have seen for many years. Here are a few other small statistical notes on the season thus far:

Andre Drummond is averaging better than 16 rebounds per game. No oen has topped 16 rpg since The Worm did it in 1996-97.

Hassan Whiteside is averaging more than 4 blocks per game. No one has done that for an entire season since Mutombo in 1995-96. As an aside, Whiteside is making $900k this season and is an unrestricted free agent after this year. He will almost certainly get a massive contract in the $20+ mil per season range next year. Wow!

But the most remarkable stat so far belongs to DeAnde Jordan, who is shooting .727 from the field. Last year, he set a NBA record by hitting 71% of his shots from the field, the first player in history with a FG% above 70%. This year, he is even better. Now, I know that he pretty much only dunks the ball and shoots layups, but that FG% is still waaaay impressive.

-Jason "after his insane start, Steph has really cooled off... he averaged 39.3 ppg in Oct, 30.1 in Nov, 28.7 in Dec, and (thanks to injury) just 17.5 so far in Jan... expect that Jan figure to shoot up tho as he gets healthy" Evans

Let's be fair to Curry: he is averaging just 17.5 ppg in January because he has played just two games so far, one of which he was injured during and played just 14 minutes. In his next game this month (two days later) he scored 30. So I wouldn't say he has cooled off so much as that he was briefly injured and has not played many games this month. He has certainly cooled off from being the ~40 pg guy, but he is still a ~30 ppg guy.

[MChambers]

Taking leave to visit a very ill former player, Andrew Smith. You may remember Smith from the 2010 championship game. Best wishes to him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14525890/boston-celtics-coach-brad-stevens-miss-game-chicago-bulls

[CDu]

Taking leave to visit a very ill former player, Andrew Smith. You may remember Smith from the 2010 championship game. Best wishes to him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14525890/boston-celtics-coach-brad-stevens-miss-game-chicago-bulls

Agreed. Good on Stevens for putting life ahead of work. He just seems like the type of guy who "gets it."

[awhom111]

Taking leave to visit a very ill former player, Andrew Smith. You may remember Smith from the 2010 championship game. Best wishes to him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14525890/boston-celtics-coach-brad-stevens-miss-game-chicago-bulls

I have been following Smith's battle with cancer since it was first diagnosed when he was a teammate of David McClure's in Lithuania. This is probably the most high profile thing, but Brad Stevens has definitely been there every step of the way and it is great to see the strength of relationships formed from sports.

[pfrduke]

David Blatt fired despite a) a trip to the Finals in his first season and b) a 30-11 record in his second season. Something tells me this is locker room related and not on-the-court related.

[luburch]

David Blatt fired despite a) a trip to the Finals in his first season and b) a 30-11 record in his second season. Something tells me this is locker room related and not on-the-court related.

I spit out my drink when I saw this on twitter. Crazy.

[JetpackJesus]

David Blatt fired despite a) a trip to the Finals in his first season and b) a 30-11 record in his second season. Something tells me this is locker room related and not on-the-court related.

That's what most of the reports I've read seem to be suggesting. I wonder if something happened--as in a specific incident--to triggered this. It just seems too abrupt and the timing too bizarre for it to be an organic decision rather than a reactive decision.

[Billy Dat]

David Blatt fired despite a) a trip to the Finals in his first season and b) a 30-11 record in his second season. Something tells me this is locker room related and not on-the-court related.

The pundit Twitter comments have been classic:

Frank Isola ‏@FisolaNYDN 31s31 seconds ago
With Ty Lue replacing David Blatt I wonder which Cavs assistant gets promoted to "The Guy LeBron Complains To About The Head Coach."

Corey Evans @coreyevans_10
Not sure how you fire a guy then immediately hire an assistant to a multi year deal. Some shaky stuff

Haralabos Voulgaris ‏@haralabob 7m7 minutes ago
Does Ty Lue has the necessary gravitas to lead LBJ. (or do i have it backwards)

Haralabos Voulgaris ‏@haralabob 12m12 minutes ago
Pat Riley deserves a lot of credit for sticking with Spo after Miami faltered some in the first year of the big 3.

david b. thorpe ‏@coachthorpe 13m13 minutes ago
I don't know of anyone who follows the NBA that didn't know this day was going to come at some point. From day 1 we expected this.

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN 15m15 minutes ago
James' fondness for Ty Lue and his desire to be coached by a former player were well known in the organization. As were issues with Blatt

Haralabos Voulgaris ‏@haralabob 15m15 minutes ago
Nothing like learning on the fly when your championship window is going from slim to "pray GSW and SAS get injuries'

Jay Williams ‏@RealJayWilliams 17m17 minutes ago
It was the right move for the @Cavs to let go of David Blatt. It's about time they promoted Tyronn Lou. #TheRightMove #NBA

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN 17m17 minutes ago
LeBron James was informed of the decision to fire David Blatt today, he was not consulted on decision sources said

Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 18m18 minutes ago
I am disappointed no one was quick enough to squeeze a Calipari rumor in between Woj's news stories on Cavs. You're slipping, people.

Gary Parrish ‏@GaryParrishCBS 31m31 minutes ago
Oh wow. LeBron is getting serious

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN 30m30 minutes ago
Despite positive comments publicly, there had been unrest growing in Cavs locker room. Frankly, it had been there since almost day one.

[pfrduke]

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN 17m17 minutes ago
LeBron James was informed of the decision to fire David Blatt today, he was not consulted on decision sources said

This seems....well, let's just say unlikely.

[Billy Dat]

This seems...well, let's just say unlikely.

I agree. Plausible deniability was maintained somehow.

[JetpackJesus]

ESPN just posted this video (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:14627735) a few minutes ago. There's some interesting bits of information sprinkled throughout.

And the more I think about it, the more the timing makes some sense:
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/250x250/63458906.jpg

[JasonEvans]

I am certain that Cavs management knew Lebron would be ok with the firing. While he may not have been directly consulted, there is no way they risked his anger over it. He had clearly spoken to management or the owner and they knew he was not exactly enamored of Blatt. Plus, by spinning it this way, Lebron does not look like a coach-killer and meddler of a player.

-Jason "is Tyron Lue the permanent choice? I suspect not" Evans

[pfrduke]

-Jason "is Tyron Lue the permanent choice? I suspect not" Evans

They did give him a multi-year contract. I suppose that's no guarantee, but he's not getting the "interim" label - he's the new head coach.

[CDu]

I am certain that Cavs management knew Lebron would be ok with the firing. While he may not have been directly consulted, there is no way they risked his anger over it. He had clearly spoken to management or the owner and they knew he was not exactly enamored of Blatt. Plus, by spinning it this way, Lebron does not look like a coach-killer and meddler of a player.

-Jason "is Tyron Lue the permanent choice? I suspect not" Evans


They did give him a multi-year contract. I suppose that's no guarantee, but he's not getting the "interim" label - he's the new head coach.

Lue has, for the past year and a half, been the guy that has garned respect from the team (read: from LeBron). He was the guy that saved the Cavs from losing in embarassing fashion in Game 4 against the Bulls in last year's second round (pulling him back from calling a timeout that he didn't have).

Whether or not Lue can actually coach or is just buddy-buddy with the key players remains to be seen. But, yeah, I think Lue is the coach for as long as things are going right. If, however, things don't go right (i.e., the Cavs don't win a title this year or next), Lue will be scapegoated out as well, with the argument being that he wasn't experienced enough to do the job.

This was clearly a situation in which the players (led by LeBron) had no respect for the coach (Blatt). It was not a long-term solution from either side. I don't know if Lue is a long-term solution, but that's where we are.

[sagegrouse]

They did give him a multi-year contract. I suppose that's no guarantee, but he's not getting the "interim" label - he's the new head coach.

And, according to the ESPN reporter on the link, he was the highest paid assistant in the NBA when he was hired last year. $1.4 million per year.

[kAzE]

In my opinion, the Cavs as currently constructed cannot defeat the Warriors or Spurs in a 7 game series, regardless of who is coaching. They don't have the personnel in the front court to to deal with what both of those teams bring to the table. Kevin Love is a bad fit in an offense with Kyrie and LeBron, and he's never been a great defender. The Cavs could probably get about the same production that Love is putting out in his current role for much less money. Handing out a max contract to Tristan Thompson probably wasn't the best move either. David Griffin probably needs to make a big move before the trade deadline or else he's next.

[JetpackJesus]

They did give him a multi-year contract. I suppose that's no guarantee, but he's not getting the "interim" label - he's the new head coach.

Apparently Griffin stated that the contract extension reports are inaccurate (https://twitter.com/mcten/status/690671047033655297). He said that Lue is the HC, though. No interim tag.

[Kdogg]

So who coaches the East All star team?

[BobbyFan]

David Blatt fired despite a) a trip to the Finals in his first season and b) a 30-11 record in his second season. Something tells me this is locker room related and not on-the-court related.

It's strange timing for sure. It was an awkward situation from the start, when management told Blatt his assistant would be Lue, who they would be making the highest paid assistant in league history. And LeBron's preference for Lue was hardly a secret. But why not make this decision before the season started to give Lue a clean slate? Instead they make the switch halfway into a regular season in which the Cavs are on a 60 win pace despite having had players miss significant time with injuries.

It's hard to judge Blatt's performance because he was never given a fair opportunity to install his motion offense, which is what he is best known for. It certainly would have made better use of Love's abilities than is being made now. LeBron scrapped the idea early last season, after he and his teammates put dubious effort into learning it. It does put a premium on off-ball movement, which LeBron has not historically cared for much, except perhaps his championship years in Miami when he finally accepted Spoelstra (a coach who may have suffered the same fate as Blatt, if not for the presence of a dominating figure in managment, in Pat Riley).

Now, the alternative of what they're currently running, and what LeBron is familiar with for most of his career, is a darn good option too because LeBron is great at making decisions. But it's a shame we didn't get a chance to see what Blatt's principles combined with the Cavs' talent could have led to. I'm sure the Warriors' players are glad they got to find out what Kerr/Gentry could bring to their offense, despite losing a coach they liked in Mark Jackson.

[Troublemaker]

In my opinion, the Cavs as currently constructed cannot defeat the Warriors or Spurs in a 7 game series, regardless of who is coaching. They don't have the personnel in the front court to to deal with what both of those teams bring to the table. Kevin Love is a bad fit in an offense with Kyrie and LeBron, and he's never been a great defender. The Cavs could probably get about the same production that Love is putting out in his current role for much less money. Handing out a max contract to Tristan Thompson probably wasn't the best move either. David Griffin probably needs to make a big move before the trade deadline or else he's next.

To be fair to Cleveland's roster construction, it's sort of bad luck that their two main competitors for the title can both threaten 70 wins; usually the top-of-the-league competition isn't quite so dominant. But first things first. It would be inexcusable for them to not win the East. They need to find their stride as a team, peak in the playoffs and mow down the competition quickly so that they can snag their spot in the Finals, well-rested and healthy, and see who wins the GSW-SAS war.

[CDu]

It's strange timing for sure. It was an awkward situation from the start, when management told Blatt his assistant would be Lue, who they would be making the highest paid assistant in league history. And LeBron's preference for Lue was hardly a secret. But why not make this decision before the season started to give Lue a clean slate? Instead they make the switch halfway into a regular season in which the Cavs are on a 60 win pace despite having had players miss significant time with injuries.

It's hard to judge Blatt's performance because he was never given a fair opportunity to install his motion offense, which is what he is best known for. It certainly would have made better use of Love's abilities than is being made now. LeBron scrapped the idea early last season, after he and his teammates put dubious effort into learning it. It does put a premium on off-ball movement, which LeBron has not historically cared for much, except perhaps his championship years in Miami when he finally accepted Spoelstra (a coach who may have suffered the same fate as Blatt, if not for the presence of a dominating figure in managment, in Pat Riley).

Now, the alternative of what they're currently running, and what LeBron is familiar with for most of his career, is a darn good option too because LeBron is great at making decisions. But it's a shame we didn't get a chance to see what Blatt's principles combined with the Cavs' talent could have led to. I'm sure the Warriors' players are glad they got to find out what Kerr/Gentry could bring to their offense, despite losing a coach they liked in Mark Jackson.

The Bulls are facing a somewhat similar predicament (albeit at a lower tier). They brought in Fred Hoiberg, who is a devotee of the "space and pace" movement similar to what we see in Golden State. Unfortunately for Hoiberg, the Bulls have a horrid roster for that system. Rose and Butler are iso-specialists, and neither are great perimeter shooters (though Butler is improving in that regard). Gasol is a statue at this point in his career, and pretty much only wants to play post-up basketball. In the new-wave approach, he's basically only capable of playing the pick-and-pop game (which he is good at, but really isn't a best use of his skills). And they just don't have enough shooters at the PF spot (Mirotic is looking more and more like a bust; Portis is young and unpolished; Gibson isn't much of a shooter).

The Cavs brought in a system coach with three ball-dominant, iso-specialist players. That was never likely to be a good fit. LeBron especially is just such a transcendent player and so set in his ways that Blatt's system was never going to work. Unlike in Chicago (where guys like Gasol are going to be gone soon anyway), there was no foreseeable future for Blatt to get his way.

[huey]

Wouldn't it be great if Blatt spends the rest of the year as an assistant on the Warriors? He was going to be an assistant coach there before the Cavs offer came up. Would be a nice touch of revenge as he'd still get paid by the Cavs and could help beat them. Then he could go for one of the (probably) open coaching spots in MN, DC, or Phoenix.

[BobbyFan]

The Cavs brought in a system coach with three ball-dominant, iso-specialist players. That was never likely to be a good fit.

Technically, Blatt was brought in to coach a young team led by Irving, Wiggins, etc, which would given him a more fair opportunity. The Cavs wouldn't have hired Blatt knowing LeBron was coming.


LeBron especially is just such a transcendent player and so set in his ways that Blatt's system was never going to work.

Agreed. But LeBron not giving it an honest chance is still disappointing, particularly given that he was only months removed from making this comment about the Spurs after they crushed his Heat in the Finals: "That's team basketball. It's selfless. Guys move, cut, pass. You've got a shot, you take it. But it's all for the team. It's never about the individual. That's their brand of basketball, and that's how team basketball should be played."

Part of it is surely ego, though I wonder if it's also because he doesn't necessarily know what's best for his team. His basketball IQ is clearly off the charts on the floor, especially with the ball in his hands. But how far does that intelligence extend off the court? He's lobbied hard for management to make some moves that have, in some cases predictably, not worked out.

[CDu]

The Lue era got off to a rough start tonight, as the Cavs laid an egg against the Bulls. Not like the Bulls played dominant basketball. They played solid defense, but got a LOT of help from the Cavs.

[Furniture]

They were quite awful really..

[Billy Dat]

Per ESPN's Tom Haberstroh, Steph Curry's 4th quarter PER is 46!!!!!!!!!!

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14655111

[NSDukeFan]

Have any of you been paying attention to ESPN's all-time player ranks? They first ranked the top 10 at each position (Duke would have had more players, except for the whole not having positions thing, 😉). Don't tell Olympic Fan that Russell wasn't the top ranked player, or even the top,ranked center, but was ranked as the #3 all-time center. http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankCs/ranking-greatest-centers-nba-history. (Actually, I agree with his position that Russell was the GOAT, if winning is the ultimate goal.)

They are now ranking the top 100, doing 5 a day and are now at #16. I find it quite entertaining and it gets me to click, which I am sure is their intention. I find it to suffer, much as this board does, from recency bias. Steph Curry, with his two times making an all-NBA team was ranked just behind 10 time all-NBA player Elgin Baylor and ahead of 10 time all-NBA Kevin Garnett, and well ahead of 8-time champ 12 time all-NBA Bob Cousy. Http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank160203/all-nbarank-21-25
He may get there, but not yet, IMO. Maybe I am too much anti-recency bias. I understand the game has changed, but I don't see how Kevin McHale gets ranked ahead of Bob Pettit, either, though I loved McHale's post moves. I thought Bill Simmons did a much better job in his Book of Basketball at ranking players, probably because he thought about it more and wasn't just using it to attract clicks.
Still, very entertaining to think about.

[darthur]

Have any of you been paying attention to ESPN's all-time player ranks? They first ranked the top 10 at each position (Duke would have had more players, except for the whole not having positions thing, 😉). Don't tell Olympic Fan that Russell wasn't the top ranked player, or even the top,ranked center, but was ranked as the #3 all-time center. http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankCs/ranking-greatest-centers-nba-history. (Actually, I agree with his position that Russell was the GOAT, if winning is the ultimate goal.)

They are now ranking the top 100, doing 5 a day and are now at #16. I find it quite entertaining and it gets me to click, which I am sure is their intention. I find it to suffer, much as this board does, from recency bias. Steph Curry, with his two times making an all-NBA team was ranked just behind 10 time all-NBA player Elgin Baylor and ahead of 10 time all-NBA Kevin Garnett, and well ahead of 8-time champ 12 time all-NBA Bob Cousy. Http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarank160203/all-nbarank-21-25
He may get there, but not yet, IMO. Maybe I am too much anti-recency bias. I understand the game has changed, but I don't see how Kevin McHale gets ranked ahead of Bob Pettit, either, though I loved McHale's post moves. I thought Bill Simmons did a much better job in his Book of Basketball at ranking players, probably because he thought about it more and wasn't just using it to attract clicks.
Still, very entertaining to think about.

I find these very fun too. I won't presume to judge Cousy or Pettit who I have never watched in any serious way, but the Curry vs Garnett comparison is easier.

A lot comes down to whether you rank based on what someone has accomplished over the course of their career, or based on how good they are/were at their peak. Bill Walton is an interesting example of someone who was very good at his peak but had very little longevity due to injuries. He finished 10th on the all-time center list. And for current players, do you give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll continue their current level of play for a while longer?

Anyway, there's no question that KG has had many more years of elite play than Curry, but most would expect Curry to have a fair number of years ahead of him. In terms of peak, I also think most would rank Curry ahead of Garnett. Curry is a mortal lock for MVP this year, which would give him two in a row to Garnett's one, and he's still getting better. There are more than a few articles discussing whether he should be considered for most improved player this year, after just winning MVP! This season, he's on pace to edge Wilt out for the highest PER in league history, and he's almost but not quite on pace to edge Kareem out for the highest WS / 48 in league history. And of course he's the unquestioned leader of a team that's on pace to beat 72-10.

So how's that compare to KG? Just depends on what you're looking for I think.

[BD80]

Wouldn't this be appropriate for the MSG circus?

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25477513/dennis-rodman-throws-his-name-into-the-knicks-coaching-search


Hey @PhilJackson11 @nyknicks, I have a pretty decent resume on the court and I can coach; and I'm available. Call me. @nba @ DennisRodman


Rodman doesn't have a ton of management and coaching experience. He did put together a roster of former NBA players to play in a game of "basketball diplomacy" in North Korea for Kim Jong-un back in early 2014. He also was the commissioner of the Lingerie Football League in 2005

Hell, if Trump can run the country, surely Rodman can run the Knicks.

[Billy Dat]

I was feeling a little sorry for George Karl being that ESPN has been reporting that he'll be fired any day, and then I listened to his podcast with Zach Lowe:

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/podcast/archive?id=10528553

Lowe starts asking him about the 2002 FIBA World Championships debacle and asks him why the USA has been able to turn it around. Here's his response (paraphrase), "Jerry Colangelo, that's why. Coach K should get some credit, although I still think a pro coach should be coaching that team...."

That part of the conversation starts around the 15 minute mark.

He is such a tool.

[grad_devil]

Probably the best game of the NBA season tonight between the Warriors and the Thunder.

Curry hits twelve 3s, the last one in OT from about 30ft - pretty much at the buzzer - for the win. Incredible.

Durant was equally as impressive, but fouled out in OT.

Definitely worth a replay on WatchESPN, if you have access. Wow.

[Wander]

You know all these stats from decades ago that seem made up - Oscar Robertson averaging a triple double, Pistol Pete scoring 40+ppg in college, etc? Those are the closest analogies to what Curry is doing this season. Wow.

[BobbyFan]

When the MVP from 2 seasons ago who is playing near that level has a great game like Durant did, and he is completely overshadowed by Curry, it shows what a historically unreal season Curry is having.

That said, if Oscar Robertson was guarding Curry, he would have picked him up full court and shut him down.

[A-Tex Devil]

When the MVP from 2 seasons ago who is playing near that level has a great game like Durant did, and he is completely overshadowed by Curry, it shows what a historically unreal season Curry is having.

That said, if Oscar Robertson was guarding Curry, he would have picked him up full court and shut him down.

I detect sarcasm.... I hope. :cool:

Curry is pushing the case for being objectively the best shooter ever. I think he broke the NBA record for threes in a season already this year. And he's shooting 46% from behind the arc.

[Edouble]

I detect sarcasm... I hope. :cool:

Curry is pushing the case for being objectively the best shooter ever. I think he broke the NBA record for threes in a season already this year. And he's shooting 46% from behind the arc.

No, he broke that record (held by him already) tonight, actually.

Sarcasm is based off of comments that the Big O made this week about Curry being successful in today's game only because defense and coaching aren't what they used to be.

[Turk]

Wanted to give this a bump as it seemed the best place to comment on Silent Sam Hinkie falling on his sword in Philly.

I was ready to join the chorus of mockery when I heard about the 13 page PDF with all the name dropping (He had me right off the bat with "Atul Gawande"). But after I read the thing, I felt bad for Hinkie. All his public comments over the past three years wouldn't add up to 5 pages, never mind 13. It was clear the document was internal and never meant to become public.

http://espn.go.com/pdf/2016/0406/nba_hinkie_redact.pdf

Colangelo wanted him gone or at least marginalized, and efforts to divide power included the Sixers owners talking to Danny Ferry about coming on board to work with Hinkie. I believe (with no evidence) that Jerry Colangelo leaked the letter and let Hinkie twist on his own words. Bryan Colangelo wanted the Nets job but didn't get it, and wasn't interested in working for the Sixers. Woj over at Yahoo quotes the usual "sources":

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-the-76ers-unraveled-sam-hinkie-193118470.html

I give credit to Hinkie for maximizing the collection of "assets"; he traded high on MCW, Jrue Holiday, and a couple of the smaller deals. I don't think his draft strategy was all that visionary, though. For the top picks, he went with the consensus chalk every time, leaving the Sixers with 3 centers with no confidence that any 2 of them will be able to effectively be on the court at the same time. And with the raft of 2nd round scratch off tickets, he found a couple that have stuck in the NBA, but nobody special.

It will be hard to get excited about the Colangelo regime. Brett Brown can't be thrilled to have D'Antoni looking over his shoulder either, with Jerry being an absentee landlord in Arizona.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Over/Under on Kobe shots tonight?

Wow, the Lakers are sooooo bad. So strange to see a proud franchise turn into a season-long vanity project.

[Troublemaker]

Over/Under on Kobe shots tonight?

Wow, the Lakers are sooooo bad. So strange to see a proud franchise turn into a season-long vanity project.

This isn't how basketball should be played, obviously.

But it's still riveting. He's giving the audience what they want in a meaningless game. He's going to the line for 60 right now, and he could retire a hero in his final game, leading a comeback victory.

[theschwartz]

This isn't how basketball should be played, obviously.

But it's still riveting. He's giving the audience what they want in a meaningless game. He's going to the line for 60 right now, and he could retire a hero in his final game, leading a comeback.

Pretty amazing performance, really. Yeah, the Lakers were feeding him the ball pretty much every possession, but it looked like vintage Kobe out there for big chunks of the game.

And Ryan Kelly got a little footnote in history tonight - which player subbed in for Kobe his very last time on the court?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Kobe scored 60 pts on 50 shots. Curry scores 46 on 24 shots. What a contrast.

I can't think if a more appropriate end to Kobe's career, in my eyes.

[cato]

Kobe scored 60 pts on 50 shots. Curry scores 46 on 24 shots. What a contrast.

I can't think if a more appropriate end to Kobe's career, in my eyes.

And Kobe scored a good chunk of his points during the fourth quarter to cap a meaningless comeback to win a meaningless game, while Steph sat the entire fourth watching his teammates seal win 73.

But lots of stars watched Kobe.

Appropriate indeed.

[oakvillebluedevil]

Most shot attempts in a game since at least 1984, per basketball reference.

Kobe has 6 of the top 8 games on the list...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fga_game.html


The purist in me didn't like the 50 shots, but man it was fun to watch.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

And Kobe scored a good chunk of his points during the fourth quarter to cap a meaningless comeback to win a meaningless game, while Steph sat the entire fourth watching his teammates seal win 73.

But lots of stars watched Kobe.

Appropriate indeed.

As I say, we all saw what we wanted and expected.

[Ichabod Drain]

According to the Twitterverse, the NBA owners voted last night to allow advertisements on jerseys in the future.

Here's the story from a couple days ago when they were predicting it to happen.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15191055/nba-owners-expected-pass-rule-allowing-ads-jerseys-2017-18-season

There have been some interesting ones thrown out there. My favorite so far is the "Milwaukee's Best Bucks."

[luburch]

According to the Twitterverse, the NBA owners voted last night to allow advertisements on jerseys in the future.

Here's the story from a couple days ago when they were predicting it to happen.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15191055/nba-owners-expected-pass-rule-allowing-ads-jerseys-2017-18-season

There have been some interesting ones thrown out there. My favorite so far is the "Milwaukee's Best Bucks."

It begins just with a two inch patch on the shoulder, right? I mean eventually I expect it to expand, and will be similar to soccer jerseys. I love the outrage in the comment section about how people will no longer watch the NBA because of this.

[wilson]

...There have been some interesting ones thrown out there. My favorite so far is the "Milwaukee's Best Bucks."Ooooh, I like this game.
The Los Angeles Great Clippers [ironic, but it works]
The Portland Chevrolet Trailblazers
The Denver Chicken McNuggets

[luburch]

Ooooh, I like this game.
The Los Angeles Great Clippers [ironic, but it works]
The Portland Chevrolet Trailblazers
The Denver Chicken McNuggets

The Indiana Motor Speedway Pacers
The Orlando Magic by David Copperfield
The New York Fruit of the Loom Knickerbockers

[Turk]

The Philadelphia 0-and-76ers!

[Tripping William]

The Portland Chevrolet Trailblazers


The Cleveland Chevy Cavaliers want some of that action . . . .

[Lar77]

Ooooh, I like this game.
The Los Angeles Great Clippers [ironic, but it works]
The Portland Chevrolet Trailblazers
The Denver Chicken McNuggets

Do "Union 76" gas stations still exist?
How about "Knickerbocker" beer?
For that matter "Old Milwaukee"
And, of course, the Phoenix Suns City.

[wilson]

6285

[COYS]

It begins just with a two inch patch on the shoulder, right? I mean eventually I expect it to expand, and will be similar to soccer jerseys. I love the outrage in the comment section about how people will no longer watch the NBA because of this.

The thing about advertisements on soccer jerseys is that a soccer match is fundamentally different. Once a half of soccer starts, there is no stoppage for commercials whatsoever. Halftime is the only time to show traditional adds. So having advertisements on the sidelines and on the players' uniforms is more acceptable because it replaces commercials . . . to be honest it's one of the features of soccer that I love. I think it's so much fun to tune in for 45 minutes of basically uninterrupted action.

Basketball is completely different. Between the media timeouts and team timeouts there are already 20-30 stoppages with opportunities for commercials per game PLUS halftime. I really hope basketball uniforms don't begin to resemble soccer unis. Given all the chances for traditional commercials it just seems excessive.

[luburch]

The thing about advertisements on soccer jerseys is that a soccer match is fundamentally different. Once a half of soccer starts, there is no stoppage for commercials whatsoever. Halftime is the only time to show traditional adds. So having advertisements on the sidelines and on the players' uniforms is more acceptable because it replaces commercials . . . to be honest it's one of the features of soccer that I love. I think it's so much fun to tune in for 45 minutes of basically uninterrupted action.

Basketball is completely different. Between the media timeouts and team timeouts there are already 20-30 stoppages with opportunities for commercials per game PLUS halftime. I really hope basketball uniforms don't begin to resemble soccer unis. Given all the chances for traditional commercials it just seems excessive.

I also absolutely love soccer and find it to be the most watchable sport (lack of commercials plays a major part in that) the advertisements on the jersey isn't what is preventing commercials. It's simply because of the rules of game. In addition to that, often times I'll see advertisements in a scroll form pop up on Fox, NBCSN, ESPN, etc whoever is showing the game. So they do find a slightly different way to advertise. Also, there's advertisements all around NBA arena similar to what you see on the soccer boards.

With the amount of money the simple adjustment to jersey's is bringing in, I feel it's inevitable that it takes over the entire front of the uniform at some point. Hopefully that would mean a transition to less commercials or prolonged timeouts, but I have my doubts. Regardless if the jersey has an advertisement on it or not, I'll still tune in.

[Indoor66]

unCheat will want to put CHEATERS on their jerseys.