Post-CTC Poll: For kicks and giggles, pick the 5 starters for the 1st exhibition

[Troublemaker]

Who will start the first exhibition game?

[elvis14]

Who will start the first exhibition game?

Troublemaker.....living up to his nickname!

[Clay Feet POF]

Going out the gate there is a Vast difference between this year Freshmen and the 14-15 Freshmen

[Bob Green]

My thoughts:

1. Derryck Thornton is a lock to start as he is the only true point guard on the roster.
2. Coach K will go with the veteran defenders so Amile Jefferson, Matt Jones and Grayson Allen will start.
3. Brandon Ingram gets my last vote as he is a one-and-done level talent. It's hard to leave him on the bench.

The issue I have with my own line-up is it is small with both Marshall Plumlee and Chase Jeter on the bench.

[Troublemaker]

My thoughts:

1. Derryck Thornton is a lock to start as he is the only true point guard on the roster.
2. Coach K will go with the veteran defenders so Amile Jefferson, Matt Jones and Grayson Allen will start.
3. Brandon Ingram gets my last vote as he is a one-and-done level talent. It's hard to leave him on the bench.

The issue I have with my own line-up is it is small with both Marshall Plumlee and Chase Jeter on the bench.

Yeah, in the interviews post-CTC, there was a lot of talk from Coach and the players about this team using its size and length to be great on defense and on the boards this year. That seems to be the identity they're seeking for the team. So, I think it's well within the realm of possibility now that both Marshall and Amile could be 30mpg contributors with Chase supplying an additional 10-15mpg off the bench. Bigball, to start the season, at least. That wasn't what I was expecting, but I look forward to seeing how it plays out if indeed that is the plan. I'm excited for MP3 and Amile to lead this team and play larger roles than expected.

[dukelifer]

My thoughts:

1. Derryck Thornton is a lock to start as he is the only true point guard on the roster.
2. Coach K will go with the veteran defenders so Amile Jefferson, Matt Jones and Grayson Allen will start.
3. Brandon Ingram gets my last vote as he is a one-and-done level talent. It's hard to leave him on the bench.

The issue I have with my own line-up is it is small with both Marshall Plumlee and Chase Jeter on the bench.

I agree but Kennard will be playing a lot based on what I saw as he will/can spell Jones, Allen and Thornton. Marshall will spell Amile. There will be lots of fluidity in the lineup. Can easily see Marshall getting minutes and starting.

[Native]

Thornton, Allen, Ingram, Amile, Marshall for the first exhibition. Though that will change as the season progresses.

[Indoor66]

Marshall will start.

[mgtr]

Thornton, Allen, Ingram, Amile, Marshall for the first exhibition. Though that will change as the season progresses.

I agree with Native -- and when Coach K calls to ask me who he should start, that is the answer I will give him. :)

[Bob Green]

Thornton, Allen, Ingram, Amile, Marshall for the first exhibition. Though that will change as the season progresses.

No Matt Jones? I guess the question none of us know the answer to is whether or not Coach K is going to ask one of the veterans to embrace the Sixth Man role.

[OldPhiKap]

Thornton, Allen, Ingram, Amile, Marshall for the first exhibition. Though that will change as the season progresses.


No Matt Jones? I guess the question none of us know the answer to is whether or not Coach K is going to ask one of the veterans to embrace the Sixth Man role.

I think that is the six competing for five. At the outset, at least. I had Matt as the first guy off the bench BUT he is a crazy good defender and will see plenty of floor time, especially at crunch time, whether he starts on the floor or on the bench.

K had effusive praise for Marshall in his post-game, I cannot see us not starting he and Amile until circumstances require something different.

[Ultrarunner]

No Matt Jones? I guess the question none of us know the answer to is whether or not Coach K is going to ask one of the veterans to embrace the Sixth Man role.

My guess is that Grayson is going to be that 6th man. He's the least experienced of the returnees while Matt is a proven quantity. A line-up of Plumlee, Jefferson, Ingram, Jones, Thornton as the starters will give us a solid defense to open the game with Ingram and Thornton looking to use screens to get to the hoop. If they get stymied, they kick to Jones for a three or look to the posts rolling to the bucket.

Then you bring in Grayson as a dynamo with instructions to create havoc. That's a role that I think he'll relish.

My pair of pennies . . . we'll see.

[Edouble]

Did not see CTC, but Coach K praised the veterans in the post-"game" presser. I'm going with:

Thornton
Allen
Jones
Jefferson
Plumlee

I know it seems weird to leave Ingram out of the starting five, but it's only the first game. He'll get there, but from all reports he was underwhelming in his CTC debut.

[mattman91]

Did not see CTC, but Coach K praised the veterans in the post-"game" presser. I'm going with:

Thornton
Allen
Jones
Jefferson
Plumlee

I know it seems weird to leave Ingram out of the starting five, but it's only the first game. He'll get there, but from all reports he was underwhelming in his CTC debut.

If you are going to keep Ingram out of the starting five based solely on CTC, you have to also keep Thornton out. He looked awful.

[Edouble]

If you are going to keep Ingram out of the starting five based solely on CTC, you have to also keep Thornton out. He looked awful.

As I wrote in my post, my starting five is based off of the comments made by Coach K in the CTC presser. In the presser, he said Thornton will be fine, or something to that effect.

Again, I did not watch CTC, and my starting five is mainly based off of Coach K's presser remarks, where my big takeaway point was that he thinks the veterans are ahead of the rest of the team at this point.

[Troublemaker]

No Matt Jones? I guess the question none of us know the answer to is whether or not Coach K is going to ask one of the veterans to embrace the Sixth Man role.


I think that is the six competing for five. At the outset, at least. I had Matt as the first guy off the bench BUT he is a crazy good defender and will see plenty of floor time, especially at crunch time, whether he starts on the floor or on the bench.

It looks like, via the polling results, we have crowdsourced a Top 6 for the rotation based on the very limited info we've encountered so far. You know, that top 6 with Matt starting and Derryck coming off the bench is an interesting lineup to me. It really wouldn't shock me if the exhibition starting lineup IS Allen-MJones-Ingram-Jefferson-Plumlee, which is a lineup consisting of the 4 vets plus the most talented freshman. Grayson showed me in the Blue-White game that he can be an effective ball-handler/creator when not guarded by Matt Jones. I loved the way Grayson consistently got into the lane and got fouled or made plays. And with Brandon also being able to ball-handle/create, I think that lineup might be viable even without a true PG. We'll see what Coach thinks on Oct 30.

[flyingdutchdevil]

..But I didn't choose him to start.

I'm under the assumption that a) Thornton will start at the 1, b) Ingram will start at the 3 because he's too small to guard college 4s, c) and Amile starts at the 4. I guess MP3 starts at the 5, but I won't be too surprised to see Jeter or Obi in that role. And, for the 2, I had to go with Jones. He was the starter on a National Championship team, he's our best on-ball defender, he's a leader to the frosh, and Coach K clearly likes Matt. I just can't see him not starting.

Grayson may play the Scheyer-as-a-Sophomore role, where Scheyer was the 6th man but nearly led the team in minutes (or am I mistaken about that?).

[Skitzle]

It's 7 starters right?

I say:
Happy,
Sleepy,
Grumpy,
Sneezy,
Plumlee,
Bashful,
Doc

[ACCBBallFan]

Duke has 4 returnees and 4 frosh plus Sean Obi who is a tweener.

Duke also has 4 combo guards (Thornton, Allen, Jones and Kennard) 4 bigs (MP3, Jefferson, Jeter and Obi) and one natural SF in Ingram

Would not be surprised to see coach K set the tone with 4 returnees and either Thornton or Ingram.

In general in OOC I expect 3 of the 4 returnees and 2 of the 4 frosh on the floor together.

Since MP3 likely cannot go 30 minutes, some minutes for Sean Obi.

Spread the 80 minutes across the 4 frosh any way you like either 20 each, or 25 for Thornton, 15 for Kennard and 25 for Ingram, 15 for Jeter.

Bigs:

25-30 Jefferson
20-25 Plumlee
15-20 Jeter
10-15 Obi

Guards say 20 each +/- 5 plus time for Jones/Allen at SF

20 Thornton and Jones
20 Kennard and Allen

SF

20 -25 Ingram
10 Jones
05 -10 Allen

I expect this would continue until ACC play and then the rotation shortens with Jeter/Obi odd man odd.

Given that Ingram had but 1 rebound I have backed off on idea of him playing a lot of PF.

Try to always have at least 2 of the 3 captains on the floor, and try to minimize 3 frosh on floor together.

[Li_Duke]

Jones
Allen
Ingram
Jefferson
Plumlee

Basically all the returnees plus the best freshman. My guess is Thornton won't be ready this early.

[Kfanarmy]

Just for kicks and giggles...

[Reddevil]

The question is who will start the first exhibition game.

Defensive prowess usually dictates getting the start. The four returnees are all very good defenders. They need a point guard to go with them, and that point guard needs as much PT as possible between now and regulation. The others will earn their time for sure, but for now I would go with experience. Of course this is just an exhibition so the staff will have their own reasons for doing what they do chemistry-wise. This is what I will tell them when I get my annual call for advice.:rolleyes:

[COYS]

Derryck
Matt
Brandon
Amile
Marshall

While I won't be remotely surprised if Bob Green's prediction that Marshall will get fewer than 15 mpg this season proves to be correct, I see it as more of a toss up. If this team's identity is really going to be built on defense, then my early guess is that this is our best defensive lineup.

Whether this lineup sticks or not will be determined by how well it can score and space the floor. I'm not sure it can do that, to be honest, but I still think this will be the lineup we see in two weeks.

[rocketeli]

I guess Thornton will start, certainly for the exhibitions and first few games. Not only does Coach K believe in sticking with a point guard, in today's recruiting environment you have to be sensitive to what other programs can use against you. "They conned him into coming a year early, and then they stuck him on the bench right away" is not what you want other coaches saying right now. OTOH if a kid clearly plays himself out of the line-up, well, no high powered recruit thinks that's going to happen to him, so it's not damaging. So for a couple of reasons, Thornton will get his shot.

[Saratoga2]

Did not see CTC, but Coach K praised the veterans in the post-"game" presser. I'm going with:

Thornton
Allen
Jones
Jefferson
Plumlee

I know it seems weird to leave Ingram out of the starting five, but it's only the first game. He'll get there, but from all reports he was underwhelming in his CTC debut.

I think that is how the first exhibition will start, but I see Ingram actually getting more time than Marshall and possibly even Jefferson, but initially doing it off the bench. Kennard will also get his time coming from the bench with Jeter and Obi getting in but for a lesser amount of PT.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think that is how the first exhibition will start, but I see Ingram actually getting more time than Marshall and possibly even Jefferson, but initially doing it off the bench. Kennard will also get his time coming from the bench with Jeter and Obi getting in but for a lesser amount of PT.

I'm not sure how you can't start our best player. He is far from a finished product and possibly not ready for the college game, but his talent is through the roof. I'd be shocked if Ingram didn't start every game, including all exhibitions.

[Edouble]

I guess Thornton will start, certainly for the exhibitions and first few games. Not only does Coach K believe in sticking with a point guard, in today's recruiting environment you have to be sensitive to what other programs can use against you. "They conned him into coming a year early, and then they stuck him on the bench right away" is not what you want other coaches saying right now. OTOH if a kid clearly plays himself out of the line-up, well, no high powered recruit thinks that's going to happen to him, so it's not damaging. So for a couple of reasons, Thornton will get his shot.

I also think that Thornton will start, and I agree that Coach K prefers to have a point guard in the starting lineup, but I hope that he doesn't game plan based off of what other coaches might say about him.

From what I know of Coach K, it seems like he's not the kind of guy to make decisions based off of things that he can't control. I'm sure if other coaches want to say something bad about Duke, they will come up with something, whether it be Thornton's minutes or otherwise. I mean, if Thornton played and didn't deserve the PT, opposing coaches could easily say "Coach K plays favorites. Derryck Thornton started even though _______ (insert player) was playing better."

Also, Dawkins reclassified to come a year early to play 12 mpg, and average 4.4 ppg. Our recruiting has worked out pretty well since then.

[gep]

Also, Dawkins reclassified to come a year early to play 12 mpg, and average 4.4 ppg. Our recruiting has worked out pretty well since then.

I recall this discussion before... I think Andre and/or his father called Duke to ask if reclassifying would help... with the departures at the time. I don't know at all how the recruiting was for Thornton... did Duke recruit him for that, or did Thornton "volunteer" based on Duke's situation. That's a difference, I think.

So... if Thornton is the point guard, I think he gets the most playing time as soon as possible to start to get him up to speed with the college game, even exhibitions. Unless, of course, he's determined to not be ready.

[Son of Jarhead]

I went with Jefferson, Jones, Plumlee, Ingram, and Thornton as my starters guess for the first exhibition. I didn't get to see CTC this year, so it is purely a guess, albeit an educated one from having seen the returnees play last year and before, and from what I have been able to learn about the freshmen. I think, much like in the title game last year, Allen will be that spark plug off the bench, at least here at the beginning. K will experiment a lot early, looking for that right combination of players. I also see here early on (in no particular order, and with the numbers used mostly to help me keep track of the correct number of starters): Jeter, Obi, & Jefferson backing up Plumlee at the 5; Jeter, Obi, & Ingram backing up Jefferson at the 4 (we will play small ball with Brandon & Amile at times playing the 4 & 5 against smaller teams, despite Brandon's slight frame); Allen, Kennard, & Jones backing up Ingram at the 3; Allen, Kennard. & Ingram backing up Jones at the 2; and Kennard, Allen, & Jones backing up Thornton at the 1. I think, like almost everyone else, that Vrankovic & Robinson will likely redshirt. Basically, the four guards are interchangeable, as are the four bigs, and Ingram is this years swiss army knife.

[johnb]

Since I haven't seen most of the team play against actual competition, I should defer but what fun is that?

The exhibition game starters will be based significantly on K's desire to instill motivation and confidence rather than a marker for who's most skillful or who will start in March. Even if Thornton needs more seasoning, we can't compete for an NC unless he plays well and plays a lot, so he starts unless he has a bad attitude, which is something that I've never heard about him (ie, assuming he's working hard, he'll definitely play a lot against outmanned teams). I'd guess Matt would start over Grayson since Matt's a better defender, and K likely wants to instill into his young team that defense will get you minutes. I also think he'll start Marshall to demonstrate that he values loyalty and seniors, though he'll play freshmen a lot, especially given the desire to remind Giles etc that last year wasn't a fluke in regards to Freshmen. At the same time, I don't think Ingram is a lock to start every game. Brand didn't start every game, and he was a man among boys as soon as he walked on campus.

[Skitzle]

based on the poll it seems like Jones and Thornton are fighting for the 5th spot on the roster.

Interesting...

[Kedsy]

Brand didn't start every game, and he was a man among boys as soon as he walked on campus.

Elton Brand started every game his freshman year until he got hurt. He came off the bench for the first three games after he returned from his two-month injury, and then started every game the rest of the season.

I don't know if Brandon Ingram will start every game, but citing Elton Brand doesn't provide any credible evidence to the contrary.


based on the poll it seems like Jones and Thornton are fighting for the 5th spot on the roster.

Interesting...

And Matt and Derryck might be fighting for the last starting spot, if Coach K was in the habit of crowdsourcing his starting lineups.

[Troublemaker]

Looks like we've crowdsourced that Amile is the surest starter. (Although I realize for that statement to be more accurate, we would've had to somehow allowed people to give "confidence scores" when picking the 5 starters).

Amile was arguably the most interesting player at CTC because he sometimes was utilized like a perimeter player, which we hadn't seen from him before. I mean, there were plays during CTC where Amile was the ball-handler in a ballscreen set for him (which yielded positive results when he drove) and other plays where he was the "guard" receiving a dribble handoff from a big. He also brought the ball up the court in transition a few times and on a couple plays was the "point guard" up top running a set.

He looked like an improved, more explosive driver who can finish in traffic and showed off a smoother free throw stroke (even though he only shot 5-for-9). There was also a highlight play where at the elbow, he faced up Brandon, drove left, and then drop-stepped back to the middle for a jump hook that scored. Pretty play.

Overall, Amile looks like he could be ready to provide an efficient 10-12 ppg this season, which would be nice to see.

[tux]

I went with:

Marshall
Amile
Brandon
Grayson
Derryck


I wanted to stick Matt in there, as he's the 3rd captain but after thinking about it... I think Matt is used to coming in off the bench and playing significant minutes, and he's a selfless player so it will be easier for him to play that role initially. (Not that the other players are selfish, just that Matt has already had success in that role.)

I think Derryck may be on a steep learning curve but K knows that the team's ceiling sort of depends on having Derryck continue to get better and build confidence. I think Grayson provides scoring in that lineup and K probably sees both Grayson and Brandon as the two most talented players on the team, so they'll probably start IMO.

I see Matt as the first sub off the bench, for any player depending on who's playing well and who's struggling. And I see Luke as the next guy up. I.e., I do think Matt (and even Luke) could come in for 1-5 and the lineup could go big or small depending on matchups, etc.

[COYS]

I see Matt as the first sub off the bench, for any player depending on who's playing well and who's struggling. And I see Luke as the next guy up. I.e., I do think Matt (and even Luke) could come in for 1-5 and the lineup could go big or small depending on matchups, etc.

I tend to believe this will be the case, as well, no matter who the starters are. I went with a defensive-oriented starting lineup, but it is not difficult for me to see K spacing the floor with an extra perimeter player (none of Marshall, Amile, Obi, or Jeter look to be much of a floor spacing big man).

[Edouble]

I went with:

Marshall
Amile
Brandon
Grayson
Derryck


I wanted to stick Matt in there, as he's the 3rd captain but after thinking about it... I think Matt is used to coming in off the bench and playing significant minutes, and he's a selfless player so it will be easier for him to play that role initially. (Not that the other players are selfish, just that Matt has already had success in that role.)

I think Derryck may be on a steep learning curve but K knows that the team's ceiling sort of depends on having Derryck continue to get better and build confidence. I think Grayson provides scoring in that lineup and K probably sees both Grayson and Brandon as the two most talented players on the team, so they'll probably start IMO.

I see Matt as the first sub off the bench, for any player depending on who's playing well and who's struggling. And I see Luke as the next guy up. I.e., I do think Matt (and even Luke) could come in for 1-5 and the lineup could go big or small depending on matchups, etc.

I don't follow this logic. Matt started 14 games for us last year, including every game in March. I would say that your description is more applicable to Grayson than Matt.

For that matter, Amile has come in off of the bench in just under 50% of his career games. Marshall should be pretty used to coming in off of the bench too.

I'm not saying that your lineup is not feasible, I'm just not sure that Matt is the one to come off of the bench because he is more "used to" it.

[tux]

I don't follow this logic. Matt started 14 games for us last year, including every game in March. I would say that your description is more applicable to Grayson than Matt.

For that matter, Amile has come in off of the bench in just under 50% of his career games. Marshall should be pretty used to coming in off of the bench too.

I'm not saying that your lineup is not feasible, I'm just not sure that Matt is the one to come off of the bench because he is more "used to" it.

I said used to coming off the bench *and* playing significant minutes. I.e., I was using shorthand for: Matt is a veteran who has played significant minutes while coming off the bench (i.e., not starting) and would probably embrace that role if asked to. We played 40 games last year and Matt started 14 of those once Sheed was dismissed (more or less). I think my logic is fine.

Basically, I'm going to say K starts Thornton and Ingram. And I think Marshall will start. That leaves -- in my mind -- Amile, Grayson, and Matt to fill in the last two spots. I could easily be convinced that K will start any of those three... but I think he will want Brandon on the perimeter to start with and so I'll go with Amile at the 4. And Grayson IMO has more potential on the offensive side than Matt at this point, but I've yet to see the team play, so...

[Furniture]

this season just seems to be different than the last two. There are more experienced vets and the freshmen are probably just quite not as ready as many have pointed out. For that reason for the first few games at least I think the vets get the start. That means Matt starts. IMHO.

[mo.st.dukie]

I think it will be the three captains along with Derryck and Brandon. The upperclassmen set the tone at CTC and will continue to do so for the duration of the season. Thornton and Ingram have crazy potential but need some experience, they seem to be less prepared to carry the load on their own the way last year's freshmen were. Jones, Jefferson, and Plumlee are all three great leaders and communicators, they've been through it all at Duke and will be a tremendous help to the younger guys. Grayson and Luke can get tons of minutes off the bench and probably both be in the top 5 scorers on the team, if not the best scorers on the team.

I think the identity of the team will definitely be built around defense, that's where they will hang their hat and will be a major determining factor in just how good the team will be. And to me, that overall team identity is right in line with the types of players that Matt, Amile, and Marshall are. I don't think this group will be able to get by with bad defensive performances while relying on scoring and the ability to make a comeback like last year's team did.

[Kedsy]

this season just seems to be different than the last two. There are more experienced vets and the freshmen are probably just quite not as ready as many have pointed out. For that reason for the first few games at least I think the vets get the start. That means Matt starts. IMHO.

I'm not sure why you say this, especially the "more experienced vets" part. This season we have a returning sophomore, a returning junior and two returning seniors. Last season at this time we had a returning senior, three returning juniors, and two returning sophomores. The year before we had three returning seniors, a returning junior, and four returning sophomores. So, in actuality we have fewer "experienced vets" than in either of the previous two seasons.

[mo.st.dukie]

I guess Thornton will start, certainly for the exhibitions and first few games. Not only does Coach K believe in sticking with a point guard, in today's recruiting environment you have to be sensitive to what other programs can use against you. "They conned him into coming a year early, and then they stuck him on the bench right away" is not what you want other coaches saying right now. OTOH if a kid clearly plays himself out of the line-up, well, no high powered recruit thinks that's going to happen to him, so it's not damaging. So for a couple of reasons, Thornton will get his shot.

I don't think Coach K is going to play a kid out of fear about what other coaches may say in future recruiting. I do think Coach K is going to play a kid if that kid is a good player and Thornton is a good player with great potential. He's very quick with the ball and a good passer (6 assists in the scrimmage) plus he's a strong defender. Needs to gain experience, calm down a bit, and learn to make some better decisions in certain spots but the talent is obvious.

[gep]

I don't think Coach K is going to play a kid out of fear about what other coaches may say in future recruiting. I do think Coach K is going to play a kid if that kid is a good player and Thornton is a good player with great potential. He's very quick with the ball and a good passer (6 assists in the scrimmage) plus he's a strong defender. Needs to gain experience, calm down a bit, and learn to make some better decisions in certain spots but the talent is obvious.

If I recall correctly, this describes Jason Williams when he first came to Duke...:cool:

[Indoor66]

If I recall correctly, this describes Jason Williams when he first came to Duke...:cool:

Also Bobby Hurley. These thoroughbreds are spirited.

[Furniture]

I'm not sure why you say this, especially the "more experienced vets" part. This season we have a returning sophomore, a returning junior and two returning seniors. Last season at this time we had a returning senior, three returning juniors, and two returning sophomores. The year before we had three returning seniors, a returning junior, and four returning sophomores. So, in actuality we have fewer "experienced vets" than in either of the previous two seasons.

I probably didn't explain my thoughts very well or as usual I just don't know what I am talking about. I will try again.

Comparatively speaking the last three years vets vs. freshman I feel, at least for the moment, this years vets experience gets the edge over the freshman. It must be very close. Two years ago Rodney (I hope I can count him) and Jabari were obvious starters. Last year Oak, Winslow and Tysus were starters or very close to it. I think this years freshman are more of a project than previous years and Amile, Matt and Marshall are really impressing me in everything they do. Off and on the court. Then there is Grayson....
Having said all of that I suppose things can change very quickly....