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View Full Version : FB: "Is Duke or North Carolina the better team?"



wilson
10-15-2015, 10:51 AM
Apropos of some bulletin board material/firestorm fuel recently shared by MarkD83, two of the Worldwide Leader's ACC football bloggers have a point/counterpoint up discussing the relative strengths and weaknesses of our football team and that of our friends down the road. Some good stuff in here:
http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/86799/take-2-duke-or-unc-the-better-team

OldPhiKap
10-15-2015, 10:58 AM
Apropos of some bulletin board material/firestorm fuel recently shared by MarkD83, two of the Worldwide Leader's ACC football bloggers have a point/counterpoint up discussing the relative strengths and weaknesses of our football team and that of our friends down the road. Some good stuff in here:
http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/86799/take-2-duke-or-unc-the-better-team

Very good article, and I would expect we are a slight underdog playing in Chapel Hill (if everything was as-is now). UNC is very good, and at some point their talent has to overcome their poor coaching. They sure opened up a spray can of whoop butt last year.

Cut will have a plan and have us ready to play. I like our chances.

LGD!

Devil in the Blue Dress
10-15-2015, 11:10 AM
Each team has many highlights in terms of talent. In terms of coaching, I'd pick the Duke staff.... that's whether one compares head coaches or the staff as a whole.

The element which oftentimes makes such discussions and predictions a lot of hot air is what happens when the two teams actually play each other. It's like the interaction of two chemicals with the emotional/psychological component of a rivalry acting like a catalyst. Each year the catalyst is a little different as history accumulates and players come and go.

We all know that football is an increasingly physical game. It's also a very cerebral game, more so than basketball or very different than basketball because there are so many more players and the complexity of the plays.

The Duke team is very disciplined, sometimes that mental attitude can win games.

I'd like to pick Duke, but am concerned about what sort of unexpected, undisciplined play Carolina may bring to the contest.

devildeac
10-15-2015, 11:52 AM
Very good article, and I would expect we are a slight underdog playing in Chapel Hill (if everything was as-is now). UNC is very good, and at some point their talent has to overcome their poor coaching. They sure opened up a spray can of whoop butt last year.

Cut will have a plan and have us ready to play. I like our chances.

LGD!

Last year pretty much boiled down to this:

Duke 3 TO ----> unc 21 points

unc 3 TO----> Duke 0 points

0-21 deficit early in the game (1Q, IIRC), a huge pit from which we never recovered. :mad:

Hope we have a better plan/outcome this year.

flyingdutchdevil
10-15-2015, 12:17 PM
According to ESPN's Team Efficiency ratings (http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics), Duke is #7 defensively and #85 offensively. UNC is #66 defensively and #13 offensively. Basically, on offensive-minded team vs a defensive-minded team. I like our chances.

Henderson
10-15-2015, 01:04 PM
I hate to go all deconstructionist on a thread, but what do we mean here by "better"?

quahog174
10-15-2015, 03:28 PM
I hate to go all deconstructionist on a thread, but what do we mean here by "better"?

Better as in when we win there will be not one drop of PMS 287 spray paint in the UNC locker room.

budwom
10-15-2015, 03:41 PM
as good as our defense has been, it hasn't faced a really good passing team yet. The unc game should be very interesting.

cspan37421
10-15-2015, 03:58 PM
UNC is very good, and at some point their talent has to overcome their poor coaching.

LGD!

I love a quote like this, because it serves the dual purpose of acknowledging the strengths of one's adversary while also (tacitly) messaging their future recruits that they would be casting their lot with the wrong group of coaches if they want to go to the next level.

sandinmyshoes
10-16-2015, 07:57 AM
If we're supposed to be a slight underdog the gap became even slighter. I see that two of their defensive backs have been suspended for fighting, or affraying. The backfield is the strength of their defense, so that has to hurt. Of course, it could be resolved by the time we play them, or maybe their defensive backfield is very deep.

My main worry with playing them is that they have so many big play-makers on offense and special teams. However, while our offense is not as good, against their defense I think we can control the ball. Their offense cannot score when they do not have the ball.

Scorp4me
10-16-2015, 08:08 AM
as good as our defense has been, it hasn't faced a really good passing team yet. The unc game should be very interesting.

I've seen this sentiment repeated several times and while I don't disagree with it, I do find it curious. Our backfield was supposed to be our strength with our defensive front the weakness. It seems curious that simply because our defensive front is playing better and doing well against the run that a passing offense should become a concern. You are right we haven't faced a good passing team yet, but I would think most would feel confident about that. Am I missing something?

MarkD83
10-16-2015, 08:16 AM
If we're supposed to be a slight underdog the gap became even slighter. I see that two of their defensive backs have been suspended for fighting, or affraying. The backfield is the strength of their defense, so that has to hurt. Of course, it could be resolved by the time we play them, or maybe their defensive backfield is very deep.

My main worry with playing them is that they have so many big play-makers on offense and special teams. However, while our offense is not as good, against their defense I think we can control the ball. Their offense cannot score when they do not have the ball.

They are suspended indefinitely which means they will be back on the field by the Pitt game on 10/29 because they won't be needed against Wake or UVA. (Have I become too cynical about the way UNC handles their athletes or not cynical enough?)

mbird30
10-16-2015, 08:29 AM
I've seen this sentiment repeated several times and while I don't disagree with it, I do find it curious. Our backfield was supposed to be our strength with our defensive front the weakness. It seems curious that simply because our defensive front is playing better and doing well against the run that a passing offense should become a concern. You are right we haven't faced a good passing team yet, but I would think most would feel confident about that. Am I missing something?

Our D line is still the weakest spot on our defense, but they are a lot better than people expected... The reason we have done so well against run oriented offenses it that we have been really aggressive at times and put 9 guys in the box to stop the run. We have stopped the run because we get penetration in the backfield with our DB's (and Dwayne Norman/others at times). I think people ask this question because our DB's strengths may seem to be their ability to help out on the run through the first 5 games, and the eye test has shown them to lose their man deep sometimes on the pass. I disagree with the notion that our DB's cannot cover well because they have shown that when a team tries to get a passing attack going on them it does not work. Our defense has the has held opposing offenses to the lowest success rate (40.01%) passing and ranks #1 nationally on Passing Downs S&P, Passing Down Success Rate (30.1%), and Passing Down Yards Per Carry (3.19).

budwom
10-16-2015, 09:07 AM
Our D line is still the weakest spot on our defense, but they are a lot better than people expected... The reason we have done so well against run oriented offenses it that we have been really aggressive at times and put 9 guys in the box to stop the run. We have stopped the run because we get penetration in the backfield with our DB's (and Dwayne Norman/others at times). I think people ask this question because our DB's strengths may seem to be their ability to help out on the run through the first 5 games, and the eye test has shown them to lose their man deep sometimes on the pass. I disagree with the notion that our DB's cannot cover well because they have shown that when a team tries to get a passing attack going on them it does not work. Our defense has the has held opposing offenses to the lowest success rate (40.01%) passing and ranks #1 nationally on Passing Downs S&P, Passing Down Success Rate (30.1%), and Passing Down Yards Per Carry (3.19).

Did anyone say our DBs "cannot cover well." I sure didn't. Here's my concern: I think the DL has been a HUGE positive surprise against the run. And we DO have really good defensive backs (assuming Singleton can
still play). What we haven't shown yet (and perhaps we will, which is why I say we need to see what happens), and what we have abundantly lacked in recent years, is a good pass rush against
good passing teams. NCCU and Tulane were weak teams, Army and BC can't throw well, NW has a mediocre passing game....so probably our toughest test vs a decent passing attack has been GT, though they are
predominantly a running team, of course.

As The Cutster has mentioned himself many times, the best defensive backs can't stop a passing game if a QB is given too much time to throw. In recent years this has been
a real problem for Duke. I'm not saying we can't do it vs. good passing teams this year....I'm just saying we haven't demonstrated it yet, and I think unc, Miami and perhaps Pitt will challenge us in this area considerably more
than we have been challenged thus far. I am hopeful.

AustinDevil
10-16-2015, 09:55 AM
They are suspended indefinitely which means they will be back on the field by the Pitt game on 10/29 because they won't be needed against Wake or UVA. (Have I become too cynical about the way UNC handles their athletes or not cynical enough?)

I think you already know the answer to your parenthetical. (And if UNC struggles in pass defense against Wake, they will be rehabilitated in time for Yooveeay as well.)

OldPhiKap
10-16-2015, 09:56 AM
I think you already know the answer to your parenthetical. (And if UNC struggles in pass defense against Wake, they will be rehabilitated in time for Yooveeay as well.)

Hell, they may have learned their lessons by halftime.

devildeac
10-16-2015, 12:45 PM
Hell, they may have learned their lessons by coin toss time.

FIFY;).

OldPhiKap
10-16-2015, 01:04 PM
FIFY;).

"Heads or Tails: A comparative study"

(Very popular 200-level seminar class at UNC, apparently)

wilson
10-16-2015, 01:55 PM
"Heads or Tails: A comparative study"

(Very popular 200-level seminar class at UNC, apparently)Also a pre-requisite for the highly in-demand 300-level "Eeny-Meeny-Miny-Mo: Case Studies in Probability."

cato
10-16-2015, 02:02 PM
Also a pre-requisite for the highly in-demand 300-level "Eeny-Meeny-Miny-Mo: Case Studies in Probability."

And the ever popular independent study course: Tic-Tac-Toe, Advanced Game Theory.

I hear that the passing move is not to participate.

OldPhiKap
10-16-2015, 02:08 PM
And the ever popular independent study course: Tic-Tac-Toe, Advanced Game Theory.

I hear that the passing move is not to participate.

[15 year old OPK]If Ally Sheedy is proctoring, sign me up. [/15 year old OPK]

captmojo
10-16-2015, 02:08 PM
Blindfolded dart toss.


Please, could you take that dart out of the goat's posterior?

Devil in the Blue Dress
10-16-2015, 03:12 PM
Blindfolded dart toss.


Please, could you take that dart out of the goat's posterior?
That's a pre-med course. No tutors available at this level.

Henderson
10-16-2015, 04:42 PM
"Heads or Tails: A comparative study"


Is it true that 83% of the students in that class turned in papers that just said, "Depends on the wind" and got B+'s?