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View Full Version : Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski applauds first openly gay hoops coach Chris Burns



Billy Dat
10-08-2015, 01:42 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2015/10/08/duke-mike-krzyzewski-applauds-first-openly-gay-coach-chris-burns/73407024/

Props to K for going above and beyond on this one as his voice is, obviously, an extremely influential one.

moonpie23
10-08-2015, 01:55 PM
This is awesome........Love me some coach K.......

just can't express how great this is.....


thanks, coach....

RepoMan
10-08-2015, 02:01 PM
Leading, as always. Great stuff. His voice matters, a lot.

MChambers
10-08-2015, 02:20 PM
Totally great. I'm very proud that we have a coach who uses his stature and visibility to do things like this.

ikiru36
10-08-2015, 02:22 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2015/10/08/duke-mike-krzyzewski-applauds-first-openly-gay-coach-chris-burns/73407024/

Props to K for going above and beyond on this one as his voice is, obviously, an extremely influential one.

This makes me as proud to be a Duke fan as did any National Championships!!!!! Coach K is generally thought of as Conservative as regards his personal politics but I believe that (especially given all the charity and numerous other generous deeds I know he engages in out of the public eye), this is primarily related to his Catholic upbringing, Military background attending West Point...etc. and reinforced by his outrageous success as the child of Polish immigrants. In any event, while I won't venture to guess which lever he may have pulled in any particular election (likely never the Socialist ticket), I am so glad that this is something he chose to take an active stance about!!!!!!!!!

Duke3517
10-08-2015, 04:30 PM
If the media didn't blow this out of proportion no one would care. It ruined Michael Sam's football career. Not a fan of making this "big announcement" and acting like this is some monumental achievement. If you want people to be "accepting" just go about your business because in the end it is no one's business.

Des Esseintes
10-08-2015, 04:51 PM
If the media didn't blow this out of proportion no one would care. It ruined Michael Sam's football career. Not a fan of making this "big announcement" and acting like this is some monumental achievement. If you want people to be "accepting" just go about your business because in the end Bigit is no one's business.

The media ruined Michael Sam's football career? Interesting. And by interesting, I mean "wrong." Richie Incognito got an incredibly hot lens from the media, for actually doing something bad. Richie Incognito is playing again. Michael Vick got an incredibly hot lens from the media, for actually doing something bad. Michael Vick came back and was rewarded with a $100 million contract. The media blows a lot of stuff up, and people have careers amid and after that attention. No, if Michael Sam's career did not go as planned, it was either too little talent or too much bigotry. I don't know enough about his play to say one way or another, but the idea that media attention to A VERY IMPORTANT BREAKTHROUGH IN AMERICAN SOCIETY IN WHICH THE PRINCIPAL DID NOTHING BAD AT ALL AND IN FACT JUST WAS UPFRONT ABOUT HIS IDENTITY is definitely, definitely not to blame.

Bigotry holds a lot of people back. It may have ended (http://deadspin.com/is-the-nfl-blacklisting-kerry-rhodes-1300128496) Kerry Rhodes's career. Was the media attention responsible for that strange set of circumstances?

In any case, I join everyone else here in being proud to be a Duke fan today. K is the best, for so, so many reasons.

flyingdutchdevil
10-08-2015, 04:54 PM
Happy that Coach K did this. Really happy Coach K did this. He has so much influence in the college sporting world and this will only help advance equality and acceptance in sports.

Btw - please don't feed the troll. There is a reason he has 3 flames

Billy Dat
10-08-2015, 04:56 PM
Coach K is generally thought of as Conservative as regards his personal politics but I believe that (especially given all the charity and numerous other generous deeds I know he engages in out of the public eye), this is primarily related to his Catholic upbringing, Military background attending West Point...etc. and reinforced by his outrageous success as the child of Polish immigrants. In any event, while I won't venture to guess which lever he may have pulled in any particular election (likely never the Socialist ticket), I am so glad that this is something he chose to take an active stance about!!!!!!!!!

I agree that I thought his conservative background would limit his commentary on LGBT issues but the man surprised me, and shame on me for underestimating his humanism.


If the media didn't blow this out of proportion no one would care. It ruined Michael Sam's football career. Not a fan of making this "big announcement" and acting like this is some monumental achievement. If you want people to be "accepting" just go about your business because in the end it is no one's business.

I understand your feelings on this topic, but I am not sure it is that simple. Michael Sam paid a big price, it's true, but he's paving the way for the next kid to be accepted. Homophobia and anti-gay slurring is rampant in the male sports world (MUCH more mainstream in women's sports), and it will only lessen as more people involved in the various sports are open about their preferences. It's easy to hold stereotypes about groups when you don't know or regularly interact with members of that group. Meeting and knowing people about whom one formerly ascribed stereotypes is usually a great way to begin eliminating those kinds of oversimplified thoughts and feelings. That's why I think these kinds of big announcements are important - they demystify.

AustinDevil
10-08-2015, 05:49 PM
Not a fan of making this "big announcement" and acting like this is some monumental achievement.

When all of the gay coaches prior to you have stayed in the closet, having the courage to make this announcement is indeed noteworthy. I have yet to see any evidence that Coach Burns considers himself to have done something "monumental"--that's simply your dramatic overstatement of today's news, so you can then disparage it.


If you want people to be "accepting" just go about your business because in the end it is no one's business.

How exactly are people going to be accepting of Coach Burns if he doesn't make his sexuality known? Do you understand that straight people make their sexuality known routinely? Do you understand that being out as LGBT is not the same thing as publicizing private romantic matters that are indeed "no one[ else]'s business?"

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-08-2015, 06:05 PM
If the media didn't blow this out of proportion no one would care. It ruined Michael Sam's football career. Not a fan of making this "big announcement" and acting like this is some monumental achievement. If you want people to be "accepting" just go about your business because in the end it is no one's business.

I somehow suspect this thread is short-lived, and that's a shame. Yes, it will be awesome when this isn't a big deal. Unfortunately, we are a long, long way from that reality. Whenever someone is the "first" of something, it's a big deal. I can promise you that when we have the fiftieth openly gay college basketball coach, it won't be "blown out of proportion." We just still have a long way to go.

As someone who disagrees generally with K's political slant, I am also really pleased to see him make this statement.

Sports is weird - it's one of the most prominent vestiges of homophobic words and slurs, but also when players are polled the vast majority care far more about whether a teammate helps them win that his or her sexual proclivities.

Thanks for the recognition of bravery and progress, K. Thanks to Coach Burns for inspiring more young people to be who they are.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-08-2015, 06:06 PM
When all of the gay coaches prior to you have stayed in the closet, having the courage to make this announcement is indeed noteworthy. I have yet to see any evidence that Coach Burns considers himself to have done something "monumental"--that's simply your dramatic overstatement of today's news, so you can then disparage it.



How exactly are people going to be accepting of Coach Burns if he doesn't make his sexuality known? Do you understand that straight people make their sexuality known routinely? Do you understand that being out as LGBT is not the same thing as publicizing private romantic matters that are indeed "no one[ else]'s business?"

Personally, I like tall people. I have lots of tall friends. I just don't like it when they act all "tall" in public.

[eyeroll]

wilson
10-08-2015, 06:07 PM
I somehow suspect this thread is short-lived, and that's a shame. Yes, it will be awesome when this isn't a big deal. Unfortunately, we are a long, long way from that reality. Whenever someone is the "first" of something, it's a big deal. I can promise you that when we have the fiftieth openly gay college basketball coach, it won't be "blown out of proportion." We just still have a long way to go.

As someone who disagrees generally with K's political slant, I am also really pleased to see him make this statement.

Sports is weird - it's one of the most prominent vestiges of homophobic words and slurs, but also when players are polled the vast majority care far more about whether a teammate helps them win that his or her sexual proclivities.

Thanks for the recognition of bravery and progress, K. Thanks to Coach Burns for inspiring more young people to be who they are.I agree wholeheartedly with the above. The best way for it to become "not a big deal" for our gay colleagues and neighbors to be themselves in the future is for the brave few to make it a big deal now.

BD80
10-08-2015, 07:26 PM
Personally, I like tall people. I have lots of tall friends. I just don't like it when they act all "tall" in public. ...

Blame their parents

CDu
10-08-2015, 07:33 PM
It is great to hear Coach K say this. I too look forward to the day that this isn't a big deal. But not unlike Jackie Robinson, this is a big deal. And Coach K's support is a big step in the right direction. I hope that we eventually get to a point where no one will care, but as has been said, we have a ways to go.

Troublemaker
10-08-2015, 07:54 PM
As someone who disagrees generally with K's political slant

I agree that I thought his conservative background

We don't really know much about Coach K's political leanings. As far as I can tell, the only "hard evidence" of Coach being "conservative" or a "Republican" is when he fundraised for Elizabeth Dole. Keep in mind that while Dole is a Republican, she ALSO is a Duke alumna who is probably friends with Coach K, as many famous Duke alumni have become friends with or at least acquaintances of him over the years. Coach K's primary motivation to fundraise for Dole might've been just to help out a friend who is a Duke graduate.


Coach K is generally thought of as Conservative as regards his personal politics but I believe that... this is primarily related to his Catholic upbringing, Military background attending West Point...etc. and reinforced by his outrageous success as the child of Polish immigrants.

Catholicism would actually be a slight Democratic predictor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_politics_in_the_United_States# Presidential_elections), although I would say the margins are close enough to basically call Catholics politically neutral (except when one of their own in JFK runs, of course!). Keep in mind that there are tons of Catholics in the Northeast USA, hardly a red area of the country; neither is Chicago, of course, where Coach K grew up. Now, yes, there are a couple of prominent issues where devout Catholics would tend to lean "right" on, but from a broad ideological perspective (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2014/08/29/3476349/does-your-church-dictate-your-politics/), they are smack dab in the middle:
http://cdn.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ideologies1-1024x963.jpg


Sorry for the nitpick. I've just always been fascinated by religion and its effects on politics and policy.

If, instead of being Catholic, Coach K were Evangelical or Mormon, that would be a predictor of conservatism.

In any case, kudos to Coach K for reaching out to and supporting the young coach!

Bob Green
10-08-2015, 08:20 PM
One post, and two responses to that post, has been deleted as it veered into the verboten Public Policy realm. Please keep the discussion on topic and away from politics. Thanks!

Duke95
10-08-2015, 08:39 PM
Very proud to have Coach K representing Duke!

sagegrouse
10-08-2015, 09:24 PM
We don't really know much about Coach K's political leanings. As far as I can tell, the only "hard evidence" of Coach being "conservative" or a "Republican" is when he fundraised for Elizabeth Dole. Keep in mind that while Dole is a Republican, she ALSO is a Duke alumna who is probably friends with Coach K, as many famous Duke alumni have become friends with or at least acquaintances of him over the years. Coach K's primary motivation to fundraise for Dole might've been just to help out a friend who is a Duke graduate.



Catholicism would actually be a slight Democratic predictor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_politics_in_the_United_States# Presidential_elections), although I would say the margins are close enough to basically call Catholics politically neutral (except when one of their own in JFK runs, of course!). Keep in mind that there are tons of Catholics in the Northeast USA, hardly a red area of the country; neither is Chicago, of course, where Coach K grew up. Now, yes, there are a couple of prominent issues where devout Catholics would tend to lean "right" on, but from a broad ideological perspective (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2014/08/29/3476349/does-your-church-dictate-your-politics/), they are smack dab in the middle:
http://cdn.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ideologies1-1024x963.jpg


Sorry for the nitpick. I've just always been fascinated by religion and its effects on politics and policy.

If, instead of being Catholic, Coach K were Evangelical or Mormon, that would be a predictor of conservatism.

In any case, kudos to Coach K for reaching out to and supporting the young coach!

Interesting chart with a lot of meaning -- it'll take some study by me.

Re K: those who write about sports and know K claim he is conservative and Republican, contrasting with Dean Smith who was the opposite. K's political moments have largely disappeared, though, and he is more than happy to make joint appearances with Obama at the White House.

Edouble
10-08-2015, 10:37 PM
We don't really know much about Coach K's political leanings. As far as I can tell, the only "hard evidence" of Coach being "conservative" or a "Republican" is when he fundraised for Elizabeth Dole. Keep in mind that while Dole is a Republican, she ALSO is a Duke alumna who is probably friends with Coach K, as many famous Duke alumni have become friends with or at least acquaintances of him over the years. Coach K's primary motivation to fundraise for Dole might've been just to help out a friend who is a Duke graduate.

How about having George HW Bush in the locker room and Coach K gushing about how he was his favorite president, etc.?

Seems like strong evidence.

JasonEvans
10-08-2015, 10:47 PM
I would just like to point out that this was not K coming out in favor of gay marriage or any of the other public policy issues related to homosexual civil rights in America. He was merely showing support to someone who said, "I'm gay and that in no way affects my ability to do this job." I don't see how there is any public policy or legal implications here.

The earlier comparison to Jackie Robinson and Michael Sam is dead on target. This isn't about changing public policy and laws, it is about supporting and respecting someone and saying NO to anyone who hates a person for their sexual orientation.

-Jason "K didn't need to speak out, but as someone who hates hate, I'm so glad that he did" Evans

Furniture
10-08-2015, 10:54 PM
I personally will look forward to the future when this sort of news is not a big deal but nevertheless K's support at this moment is awesome. In my opinion if indeed his views are more conservative he is also leading the way for many others of similar values. Kudos once again....

oldnavy
10-09-2015, 07:23 AM
Interesting thread and topic. Not much actual discussion of the issue at hand as should be expected on this board (its not a public policy board), but the accepted posts are interesting and illuminating.

Just one observation regarding tolerance: Have you ever noticed that most peoples "tolerance" only extends to their own belief system? "You disagree with me therefore you are intolerant". "You have a different opinion on this, you're ignorant!" Isn't that in itself being intolerant?

Anyway....

I wish Coach Burns only the best, in both his personal life and in his career.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-09-2015, 07:37 AM
Just one observation regarding tolerance: Have you ever noticed that most peoples "tolerance" only extends to their own belief system? "You disagree with me therefore you are intolerant". "You have a different opinion on this, you're ignorant!" Isn't that in itself being intolerant?


Okay, interesting shot across the bow. I'll bite. Please, share with the rest of the class who is not being tolerated or accepted in this article and on this topic.

oldnavy
10-09-2015, 08:08 AM
Okay, interesting shot across the bow. I'll bite. Please, share with the rest of the class who is not being tolerated or accepted in this article and on this topic.

My observation is just my observation. Nothing more.

Second, I don't know who isn't being accepted because it appears certain posts have been deleted. Maybe those posts were inappropriate... maybe they didn't support the accepted viewpoint, I just don't know.

Finally, I have noticed a couple of posts that used the word "hate" and you can see for yourself who those comments were directed towards, it is a very popular label that is used when discussing this topic.

I am not supporting one side over the other here, my point is that tolerance to social issues, religious beliefs, political positions, etc... are very often not tolerated, even by those who are shouting for "tolerance" at the top of their lungs.

I am just commenting on the reactions to this thread, I am not commenting on gay rights one way or the other.

You could apply my comments and observations to just about any social, religious or political topic.

Tolerance isn't something we have an abundance of it seems when it comes to differing opinions, would you disagree?

Troublemaker
10-09-2015, 08:10 AM
How about having George HW Bush in the locker room and Coach K gushing about how he was his favorite president, etc.?

During Duke's recent visit to the White House, Coach K also invited President Obama to attend a game at Cameron -- where I'm sure he'll get to visit the locker room as well -- and K went out of his way to highly praise the President. Re: H.W. Bush, he and Coach K apparently are friends that have worked together for many years to fight cancer. In the locker room, H.W. actually presented Coach with some award having to do with that collaboration.



Re K: those who write about sports and know K claim he is conservative and Republican, contrasting with Dean Smith who was the opposite.

Isn't it basically just one writer, John Feinstein, in that ACC book he wrote in the mid 90s, that speculated about this? I believe the release of Feinstein's book was when the Coach-K-is-conservative meme went viral. But, having read that book as I'm sure many DBR posters have, I don't recall Feinstein being able to quote Coach K on any political statements. It was speculation by Feinstein to draw a juicy juxtaposition -- how in NC, if sainted Dean and devil K were both to run for office, the conservative NC voters would have to choose K over their beloved but liberal Dean.



K's political moments have largely disappeared

Were there any other political moments besides holding the fundraiser for Dole?

I guess I'm in information-gathering mode right now. It seems to just be assumed at this point that Coach K is conservative/Republican, which is strange because he's spent 40 years as a coach not commenting on politics (as far as I know). If it's really just Feinstein + fundraiser that led to this given assumption, I find that to be a bit flimsy.

Look, I don't really care either way. Whether he's Republican, Democrat, or Independent, I would admire his career on and off the court just the same. I'm just trying to trace back the origins of why we think what we think about his politics. If somebody can put some meat on that bone for me, I'd be grateful.

CDu
10-09-2015, 08:13 AM
Interesting thread and topic. Not much actual discussion of the issue at hand as should be expected on this board (its not a public policy board), but the accepted posts are interesting and illuminating.

Just one observation regarding tolerance: Have you ever noticed that most peoples "tolerance" only extends to their own belief system? "You disagree with me therefore you are intolerant". "You have a different opinion on this, you're ignorant!" Isn't that in itself being intolerant?

Anyway....

I wish Coach Burns only the best, in both his personal life and in his career.

My guess is that you disagree with the general tenor of these responses (if I have misinterpreted, I apologize). That is fine by me, so long as your last sentence stands. All that the LGBT community wants is to be treated equally to the rest of us, something that has been far from the case historically and even today.

My feelings are this: I am straight, and unabashedly so. But I think people should be comfortable being who they biologically are without fear of injury or discrimination so long as it does not infringe on others' rights. To this point, that has not been the case yet for the LGBT community.

Those who are uncomfortable with or disagree with homosexuality are more than welcome to disagree, so long as they follow the Bible/Koran/Torah's teaching to judge not and to love everyone equally. Personally, I believe those who oppose LGBT do so from a position of a lack of understanding of the science, but I won't hold that against them so long as they don't let it affect how they treat the LGBT community.

And I hope one day science is finally able to definitively show that this is a biological issue so that we can move past the current debate.

So to your question, the issue of tolerance is this: much like the racial desegration issue, it is all about rights. The LGBT community isn't asking the opposition to like them or agree with them. They just want equal rights and to be treated fairly just like everyone else.

Indoor66
10-09-2015, 08:29 AM
Live and let live.

I wish the coach success and happiness.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-09-2015, 08:52 AM
My observation is just my observation. Nothing more.

Second, I don't know who isn't being accepted because it appears certain posts have been deleted. Maybe those posts were inappropriate... maybe they didn't support the accepted viewpoint, I just don't know.

Finally, I have noticed a couple of posts that used the word "hate" and you can see for yourself who those comments were directed towards, it is a very popular label that is used when discussing this topic.

I am not supporting one side over the other here, my point is that tolerance to social issues, religious beliefs, political positions, etc... are very often not tolerated, even by those who are shouting for "tolerance" at the top of their lungs.

I am just commenting on the reactions to this thread, I am not commenting on gay rights one way or the other.

You could apply my comments and observations to just about any social, religious or political topic.

Tolerance isn't something we have an abundance of it seems when it comes to differing opinions, would you disagree?

I am impressed that your opinions are informed by your best guess about what posts were deleted and what they said. Certainly illustrates how incredibly fair and balanced you are.

As far as "tolerance" goes - in my experience the problem stems from people who want their judgment of a minority group to be tolerated and they lean on their beliefs. I would love to know who's human rights are being violated or infringed upon by this brave coach and/or K's support of said coach.

"Tolerance" is a wholly good thing when no one is being oppressed, abused, or attacked by the status quo.

superdave
10-09-2015, 08:55 AM
Live and let live.

I wish the coach success and happiness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR46gQLyxuE

Is it basketball season yet?

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-09-2015, 08:58 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR46gQLyxuE

Is it basketball season yet?

Amen. We can all agree on that.

Bob Green
10-09-2015, 09:04 AM
Amen. We can all agree on that.

Actually, I am currently enjoying football season. :cool:

Furniture
10-09-2015, 09:10 AM
One big difference I have noted about living in the US is that differing political beliefs/opinions can really affect relationships you have with friends. I do believe that in the UK it's possible for a good debate with your friends who are from opposite sides of the political spectrum. Here it really gets personal for some reason. Having said all that there is no way I would change this wonderful country for that cold and wet place!

OldPhiKap
10-09-2015, 09:12 AM
Actually, I am currently enjoying football season. :cool:

Army will have a full Michie Stadium and likely have their best running back available. This will be a tough road game. Let's Go Duke!

(And kudos to K for showing leadership on this issue. Now, I hope the coach wins and develops his players well -- at the end of the day, that's the measuring stick).

Duke95
10-09-2015, 09:34 AM
Interesting thread and topic. Not much actual discussion of the issue at hand as should be expected on this board (its not a public policy board), but the accepted posts are interesting and illuminating.

Just one observation regarding tolerance: Have you ever noticed that most peoples "tolerance" only extends to their own belief system? "You disagree with me therefore you are intolerant". "You have a different opinion on this, you're ignorant!" Isn't that in itself being intolerant?

Anyway....

I wish Coach Burns only the best, in both his personal life and in his career.

Are you saying people should tolerate bigotry, discrimination, and racism, just because some people out there believe that's the way the world should work?

cspan37421
10-09-2015, 09:45 AM
Just a few thoughts before this gets closed up ...

w/r/t Coach K and the POTUS (whoever occupies it at the time), it's my impression that he has a great deal of respect for the OFFICE of the POTUS, regardless of current occupant. I suspect some of that comes from his West Point background. Beyond a deep respect for the office, I'm sure he runs warm or cool to a particular occupant, but it seems he never lets that overshadow the respect for the office.

Interesting graph posted by, I think, Troublemaker. Couple of comments, one grammatical. Also, I acknowledge that Troublemaker didn't construct the graph.

1) Shouldn't it be "fewer services", rather than "less services"?
1a) obligatory nod regarding the false dichotomy ... if you count military as part of government, there aren't really that many that want both fewer (social) services AND a smaller military, and vice versa. I think there's a correlation between wanting smaller government w/r/t social services/safety net and larger military, and the opposite. So the continuum is a bit misleading. It's probably multi-dimensional ... someone call a mathematician to graph it in n-space!

2) "Protection of morality" is really quite a loaded term. What's moral to one person could be of dubious value (or worse) to another. To avoid stepping over PPB boundaries I'll let readers fill in some good examples, but it should be easy to do.

So anyway I'm very skeptical of the validity graph, though I "get" what it's trying to illustrate, and I'm sure there are underlying general truths to it. I'm probably just being a bit pedantic in my criticism of the terms/phrases they used.

oldnavy
10-09-2015, 10:07 AM
I am impressed that your opinions are informed by your best guess about what posts were deleted and what they said. Certainly illustrates how incredibly fair and balanced you are.

As far as "tolerance" goes - in my experience the problem stems from people who want their judgment of a minority group to be tolerated and they lean on their beliefs. I would love to know who's human rights are being violated or infringed upon by this brave coach and/or K's support of said coach."Tolerance" is a wholly good thing when no one is being oppressed, abused, or attacked by the status quo.

Wow! You nailed me!

I think my point on tolerance has been made.

mattman91
10-09-2015, 10:07 AM
There is no other way to say it. What he did took bravery, and he is absolutely stunning.

oldnavy
10-09-2015, 10:09 AM
Are you saying people should tolerate bigotry, discrimination, and racism, just because some people out there believe that's the way the world should work?

How on earth do you jump that far based on what I have said??

Never mind....

Go Duke!

Wander
10-09-2015, 10:25 AM
Second, I don't know who isn't being accepted because it appears certain posts have been deleted. Maybe those posts were inappropriate... maybe they didn't support the accepted viewpoint, I just don't know.


People are reacting poorly because this is no different than: http://www.cc.com/video-clips/8ov5kh/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-the-question-mark

Phrasing something as a question or "I'm not saying the mods are being dbags and deleting opposing viewpoints, I'm just wondering out loud if the mods are being dbags and deleting opposing viewpoints" is a cheap rhetorical trick.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-09-2015, 10:57 AM
Wow! You nailed me!

I think my point on tolerance has been made.

At the risk of being obtuse and/or furthering a fruitless back-and-forth, I see no way my words made your point regarding intolerance.

Am I mistaken in believing that K's support of a brave coach doesn't infringe on anyone else's rights?

Kudos to the coach, kudos to K, kudos to the folks on the board who seem to "get" it.

JasonEvans
10-09-2015, 11:01 AM
Ok, ok... enough already.

OldNavy made his point and showed how he feels. Others have responded with their feelings too. Lets leave that discussion alone.

And for folks wondering about the deleted posts, WakeDevil posted something that clearly took this discussion in a decidedly political direction. The post was deleted (as were a couple replies that were largely attempting to calm things) and an infraction is being issued. That should be warning enough that taking this into the PPB realm will not be tolerated.

I would ask that we all be careful moving forward about the line between fighting homophobia (which is not a PPB issue any more than other forms of discrimination like racism or religious persecution are) and issues like abortion, same-sex marriage, gun control, prayer in school, and raising the debt ceiling.

-Jason "hope that makes sense to everyone" Evans

Indoor66
10-09-2015, 11:12 AM
-Jason "hope that makes sense to everyone" Evans

Makes sense to drop the whole thing.

sagegrouse
10-09-2015, 11:27 AM
During Duke's recent visit to the White House, Coach K also invited President Obama to attend a game at Cameron -- where I'm sure he'll get to visit the locker room as well -- and K went out of his way to highly praise the President. Re: H.W. Bush, he and Coach K apparently are friends that have worked together for many years to fight cancer. In the locker room, H.W. actually presented Coach with some award having to do with that collaboration.



Isn't it basically just one writer, John Feinstein, in that ACC book he wrote in the mid 90s, that speculated about this? I believe the release of Feinstein's book was when the Coach-K-is-conservative meme went viral. But, having read that book as I'm sure many DBR posters have, I don't recall Feinstein being able to quote Coach K on any political statements. It was speculation by Feinstein to draw a juicy juxtaposition -- how in NC, if sainted Dean and devil K were both to run for office, the conservative NC voters would have to choose K over their beloved but liberal Dean.



Were there any other political moments besides holding the fundraiser for Dole?

I guess I'm in information-gathering mode right now. It seems to just be assumed at this point that Coach K is conservative/Republican, which is strange because he's spent 40 years as a coach not commenting on politics (as far as I know). If it's really just Feinstein + fundraiser that led to this given assumption, I find that to be a bit flimsy.

Look, I don't really care either way. Whether he's Republican, Democrat, or Independent, I would admire his career on and off the court just the same. I'm just trying to trace back the origins of why we think what we think about his politics. If somebody can put some meat on that bone for me, I'd be grateful.


Pretty tricky, Troublemaker. You are trying to get me to defend John Feinstein on this list and be subject to condemnation, not only on DBR, but also on fan lists everywhere. As I recall, J.F. said something to the effect that he personally is much closer to Dean Smith politically than to K, and he viewed it as ironic given his Duke loyalties. It's a pretty good source -- given JF's long-time links to Duke and Coach K -- but I can't remember if others have written about K's non-basketball activities.

Kindly,
Sage
'Dean's "liberal" credentials are well-established because of his public actions and statements during the desegregation conflicts in North Carolina in the 1960's'

Henderson
10-09-2015, 11:38 AM
Makes sense to drop the whole thing.

Are we voting? If so, I'm with Indoor. It's just hard to see anything useful or cathartic that hasn't already been expressed. And I say that appreciating the many comments with disparate views. But once you've covered the ground, time to plow a new field.

BD80
10-09-2015, 02:56 PM
Ok, ok... enough already.

OldNavy made his point and showed how he feels. Others have responded with their feelings too. Lets leave that discussion alone. ...

-Jason "hope that makes sense to everyone" Evans

The intolerance regarding others' feelings on tolerance? You have GOT to let it continue ...

At least until the season starts

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
10-09-2015, 04:03 PM
The intolerance regarding others' feelings on tolerance? You have GOT to let it continue ...

At least until the season starts

I am rabidly intolerant of certain shades of blue.

Bob Green
10-09-2015, 04:09 PM
I am rabidly intolerant of certain shades of blue.

Well played, Sir!

oldnavy
10-09-2015, 05:34 PM
Well played, Sir!

That is an intolerance I can get behind!!

moonpie23
10-09-2015, 09:05 PM
is being intolerant of other people's intolerance a mobius loop?

Duke3517
10-09-2015, 10:02 PM
I'm certainly the least liked poster on this board but at least I can keep it interesting until the season starts.

Edouble
10-09-2015, 11:38 PM
I'm certainly the least liked poster on this board but at least I can keep it interesting until the season starts.

There are a few posters that I like less than you... so far. But keep up the bad grammar and syntax errors and you are sure to crack the top three in no time.

Sympathy sporks for now. Flames at the ready.

Mike Corey
10-09-2015, 11:48 PM
Our coach has done more than tolerate the choice of this young coach to inform his team of something that, until very recently, would have been career suicide.

He's celebrated him for it, privately and now, publicly.

I'm grateful Coach is our coach for so many reasons. He is far from perfect, but this was a good, selfless act in support of someone that did not ask for Coach's kindness, but has surely appreciated it.

Indoor66
10-10-2015, 09:01 AM
Our coach has done more than tolerate the choice of this young coach to inform his team of something that, until very recently, would have been career suicide.

He's celebrated him for it, privately and now, publicly.

I'm grateful Coach is our coach for so many reasons. He is far from perfect, but this was a good, selfless act in support of someone that did not ask for Coach's kindness, but has surely appreciated it.

You say Coach K "celebrated" the action but what I saw was Coach K giving a private congratulation and support to an individual taking a risky step. The recipient made the communication and action public. K was private.

CDu
10-10-2015, 10:10 AM
You say Coach K "celebrated" the action but what I saw was Coach K giving a private congratulation and support to an individual taking a risky step. The recipient made the communication and action public. K was private.

Actually, Coach K made his support and congratulations very clear in an interview with USA Today about it afterwards. So he was clearly willing to make it public. If you read the USA Today article, I think you would agree that the quotations on celebrate are unnecessary. He made it quite clear that he thinks this is a good thing. Heck, Coach even used the word celebrated himself.

Indoor66
10-10-2015, 02:03 PM
Actually, Coach K made his support and congratulations very clear in an interview with USA Today about it afterwards. So he was clearly willing to make it public. If you read the USA Today article, I think you would agree that the quotations on celebrate are unnecessary. He made it quite clear that he thinks this is a good thing. Heck, Coach even used the word celebrated himself.

K did not make it public. It became public and he responded to questions and I applaud him for it. But he did not go public with the story.

CDu
10-10-2015, 02:14 PM
K did not make it public. It became public and he responded to questions and I applaud him for it. But he did not go public with the story.

The quote you referred to in disagreement said Coach K celebrated Burns privately and now publicly. It did not purport that Coach K went to the press first, just that he did celebrate Burns both privately and publicly. And based on the public statements to USA Today, that is absolutely the case. There is nothing incorrect about what Mike Corey said.

If Coach K had any reservations about his celebration of Burns, he could have chosen not to respond to USA Today, or he could have been more generic/bland in his public statements. But he wasn't. He was quite unequivocal and detailed in his praise and celebration of Burns even in the USA Today interview.

It was not Coach K's story to go public with. But whether or not Coach K was the one who brought it up is irrelevant to Mike Corey's point. Coach K was willingly and knowingly effusive in his public praise of Burns, which was Corey's point.