The Cardinal is a Dirty Bird...potential Louisville Escort Scandal

[Billy Dat]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/new-book-makes-damaging-sexual-allegations-involving-louisville-basketball-202333537.html

"The book alleges that over a four-year period, Powell brought women into Billy Minardi Hall – the basketball dormitory on the Louisville campus that is named after Pitino’s late brother-in-law – through a side door to entertain players and recruits. Powell also says her dancers – which included her daughters – also entertained Louisville players at other locations off-campus. After the women danced for the players for an agreed-upon sum, Powell alleges that she would negotiate a second payment for the women to have sex with the athletes."

Quite a follow-up to "Scenes from an Italian Restaurant"

Man, this college ball is a seedy business....

[luburch]

Like coach, like player?

[Billy Dat]

Like coach, like player?

"Bottle of red, bottle of white, it all depends upon your appetite.."

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN 3m3 minutes ago
Rick Pitino and Louisville AD Tom Jurich will hold a news conference at 5:45 p.m. to address the situation, allegation

[Henderson]

Without judging the relative seriousness of the allegations, I gotta say: Louisville is funnier than UNC-CH, Syracuse, and SMU combined.

[MartyClark]

I'm having a beer with a Louisville insider in an hour. I doubt that he'll tell me anything but it could be a lively conversation.

[SCMatt33]

Also from the article (emphasis mine):


The book alleges: “At the peak of the dormitory and off-campus entertainment more than $10,000 cash changed hands to Katina for supplying the women. This does not include the hundreds of one dollar bills thrown at the dancers at each party by McGee, the recruits and players. Nor does it include the money paid to the women who had sex with the recruits afterward. So frequent were the escapades that Katina would later say, especially after the Cardinals won the 2012-2013 NCAA championship: I felt like I was part of the recruitment team. A lot of them players went to Louisville because of me.”

Hopefully no one at Louisville gave any recruits dollar bills to use. That would probably be twice as bad as everything put together at UNC, at least in the NCAA's eyes.:p

[Tripping William]

"Bottle of red, bottle of white, it all depends upon your appetite.."

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN 3m3 minutes ago
Rick Pitino and Louisville AD Tom Jurich will hold a news conference at 5:45 p.m. to address the situation, allegation

Did they say these youngsters were (euphemistically) riding around with the car top down and the radio on? :cool:

[weezie]

"...Powell also says her dancers – which included her daughters – also entertained Louisville players at other locations off-campus. After the women danced for the players for an agreed-upon sum, Powell alleges that she would negotiate a second payment for the women to have sex with the athletes..."

I'll bet that's a lovely cotillion of debutantes.

[wsb3]

I may not have my facts straight in which the posters here will be all over me, which is fine.

But the book comes out Saturday. Written by someone in the escort business.. The person gets 10% of the book sales. Maybe all these allegations will turn out to be true but for now I choose to wait and see.

disclaimer: I have no affiliation with Louisville in any way, shape or form.. Other than I still hurt occasionally from the 1986 National Championship game..

[El_Diablo]

Of course the NCAA investigators are tripping over their you know whats to investigate this one.

[Duke3517]

How come Duke didn't think of this? That is a genius idea.

[BD80]

Were these benefits available to the general student population?

[Henderson]

Were these benefits available to the general student population?

It's an optional surcharge on the Student Fee. You have to check the box and pay extra. But no one does because for some reason "Louisville Escort" doesn't inspire folks to sign up. I'm not sure why, and I'm not sure where that arrangement sits with the NCAA.

PS: In all seriousness, I'm skeptical of the whole story and reserving judgment.

[brevity]

Were these benefits available to the general student population?


It's an optional surcharge on the Student Fee. You have to check the box and pay extra.

So strange. At Duke, my meal plan just covered meals.

[BigWayne]

So strange. At Duke, my meal plan just covered meals.

You should have been there the first year we had the electronic meal cards when we got beer on meal points.

[Olympic Fan]

How come Duke didn't think of this? That is a genius idea.

Are you kidding? This is one of the oldest recruiting scams in the book ... only most schools don't use pros ... they use willing coeds.

Most of the SEC schools and many of the ACC schools have organizations of coeds signed up to escort recruits on campus ... and in a large percentage of cases, these escorts provide sex to the prospects. I'm not saying that every girl who works for an organization such as the Sweet Carolines (to name just one nearby organization) offers sex to recruits, but many of the girls in these organizations do.

[rocketeli]

Are you kidding? This is one of the oldest recruiting scams in the book ... only most schools don't use pros ... they use willing coeds.

Most of the SEC schools and many of the ACC schools have organizations of coeds signed up to escort recruits on campus ... and in a large percentage of cases, these escorts provide sex to the prospects. I'm not saying that every girl who works for an organization such as the Sweet Carolines (to name just one nearby organization) offers sex to recruits, but many of the girls in these organizations do.

When I was at Duke the Duke equivalent was the "Duke Duchesses" It was a win-win situation. The girls got first access to all the hot young studs and the recruits enjoyed their visit. Naturally nothing was demanded or explicit, but I knew a few of the Duchesses and they were definately down to recruit.

[bob blue devil]

When I was at Duke the Duke equivalent was the "Duke Duchesses" It was a win-win situation. The girls got first access to all the hot young studs and the recruits enjoyed their visit. Naturally nothing was demanded or explicit, but I knew a few of the Duchesses and they were definately down to recruit.

fwiw, i think the "Carolina Belles" from down the road were more effective recruiters...

[DukeDevil]

*backing away slowly from the minefield this thread has turned into*

[MarkD83]

*backing away slowly from the minefield this thread has turned into*

BOOM!!! Too late

[SoCalDukeFan]

When I was at Duke the Duke equivalent was the "Duke Duchesses" It was a win-win situation. The girls got first access to all the hot young studs and the recruits enjoyed their visit. Naturally nothing was demanded or explicit, but I knew a few of the Duchesses and they were definately down to recruit.

date a father of a recruit?

SoCal

[BD80]

date a father of a recruit?

SoCal

the use if the term "date" dates you, unless used in terms of a professional engagement

[DukieInKansas]

You should have been there the first year we had the electronic meal cards when we got beer on meal points.

So, were you the one that ran through all their points quickly and halted the beer sales for points? ;)

[Kedsy]

So, were you the one that ran through all their points quickly and halted the beer sales for points? ;)

I ran through my points pretty quickly. The good news was, since the University in its wisdom allowed only minimal carryover of points, by the end of the school year, I drank for free every night. People in use-it-or-lose-it mode bought beer after beer for total strangers. All you had to do was sit at their table.

[BigWayne]

I ran through my points pretty quickly. The good news was, since the University in its wisdom allowed only minimal carryover of points, by the end of the school year, I drank for free every night. People in use-it-or-lose-it mode bought beer after beer for total strangers. All you had to do was sit at their table.

This is probably what got back to Uncle Terry. During exams, you had people, IIRC mostly skinny females, that had lots of meal points left. The system was set up where you got back cents on the dollar for unused points. Someone would take one of these cards up to the bar at the CI and get a case of beers, all opened by the bartender. Then they got plopped down on tables and grabbed up by whoever came by. It got pretty ugly.

There was also a case of one guy that flunked out for the spring that year and came back for a visit. He tried his card and it worked even though he wasn't enrolled, so he bought a LOT of beer that weekend.

[duke79]

This is probably what got back to Uncle Terry. During exams, you had people, IIRC mostly skinny females, that had lots of meal points left. The system was set up where you got back cents on the dollar for unused points. Someone would take one of these cards up to the bar at the CI and get a case of beers, all opened by the bartender. Then they got plopped down on tables and grabbed up by whoever came by. It got pretty ugly.

There was also a case of one guy that flunked out for the spring that year and came back for a visit. He tried his card and it worked even though he wasn't enrolled, so he bought a LOT of beer that weekend.

Yea, I was in grad school that year when meal "points" could be used to buy beer at the CI (and maybe other places too? I can't remember if beer was sold at other locations on campus?). I'm pretty sure that academic year may have set the record for the most on-campus consumption of beer (the legal drinking age was still 18, so almost everyone at Duke could drink legally). I believe that was also the first year of the new points plan for buying meals at Duke and that many parents had bought their kids way more points than what they really needed for food, so there were many people with a lot of points on their cards towards the end of the semester and they were more than glad to spend those points on beer for just about anyone who happened to be around (and I also remember big baskets of boiled shrimp) at the happy hours at the CI. Of course, it all came to a screeching halt after the Chronicle published a news story about the "points for beer" phenomenon and Uncle Terry put a screeching halt to the practice. I guess all good things have to come to an end. LOL.

[DukieInKansas]

Yea, I was in grad school that year when meal "points" could be used to buy beer at the CI (and maybe other places too? I can't remember if beer was sold at other locations on campus?). I'm pretty sure that academic year may have set the record for the most on-campus consumption of beer (the legal drinking age was still 18, so almost everyone at Duke could drink legally). I believe that was also the first year of the new points plan for buying meals at Duke and that many parents had bought their kids way more points than what they really needed for food, so there were many people with a lot of points on their cards towards the end of the semester and they were more than glad to spend those points on beer for just about anyone who happened to be around (and I also remember big baskets of boiled shrimp) at the happy hours at the CI. Of course, it all came to a screeching halt after the Chronicle published a news story about the "points for beer" phenomenon and Uncle Terry put a screeching halt to the practice. I guess all good things have to come to an end. LOL.

I had friends that catered their graduation party using points they received second semester and I don't think they were ever charged for them. We used people's points for some sorority events, also. It was great that you could use them at Duke catering.

[MarkD83]

I was one of those folks with extra points and did use some for beer. However, I also had many a meal at the Oak Room.

[Henderson]

So anyway, back to the Louisville thing. Pitino is quoted again as having no knowledge. And I'm hearing him loud and clear: He had no idea.

But the vibe I'm getting from his statements is NOT, "This is a hoax for book money; I don't think it ever happened. Extraordinary allegations require extraordinary proof." Maybe the internal investigation doesn't allow him to draw conclusions yet, but the statements so far are not, "It didn't happen." Rather it's "I didn't know, and I don't know anyone who did." And he's not challenging anyone for proof, as though he knows now that something did happen.

My takeaway so far from this is that one-source reporting is incredibly dangerous, bordering on the irresponsible. But the shading by Pitino is troubling to me.

[English]

So anyway, back to the Louisville thing. Pitino is quoted again as having no knowledge. And I'm hearing him loud and clear: He had no idea.

But the vibe I'm getting from his statements is NOT, "This is a hoax for book money; I don't think it ever happened. Extraordinary allegations require extraordinary proof." Maybe the internal investigation doesn't allow him to draw conclusions yet, but the statements so far are not, "It didn't happen." Rather it's "I didn't know, and I don't know anyone who did." And he's not challenging anyone for proof, as though he knows now that something did happen.

My takeaway so far from this is that one-source reporting is incredibly dangerous, bordering on the irresponsible. But the shading by Pitino is troubling to me.

Per The Sporting News, co-author Dick Cady (a very reputable individual) is evidently refusing to turn over records to the NCAA, Louisville's internal consultant Chuck Smrt, or the Louisville Courier-Journal. He stands behind his forensic investigators' verification linking McGee (Louisville staffer) to Powell (Louisville escort), but appears unwilling to cooperate in any investigation. Interesting development. In an interview with the Courier-Journal, Cady says "My feeling is that they [U of L consultant Smrt & his staff] needed more groundwork before they could really jump into stuff. They need to read the book."

Sounds like this move could be a maneuver to sell more books, or simply a guy preferring not to do other people's work for them. Either way, Cady has put his and his company's reputation on the line for this book, so I imagine he's confident that the content is accurate.

On the "take it for what it's worth" tip, I've heard others with ties to credible Louisville athletics insiders who have taken the position that the information in the book isn't 100% accurate, but that most of it is. Not good for Louisville, if true.

[BigWayne]

Per The Sporting News, co-author Dick Cady (a very reputable individual) is evidently refusing to turn over records to the NCAA, Louisville's internal consultant Chuck Smrt, or the Louisville Courier-Journal. He stands behind his forensic investigators' verification linking McGee (Louisville staffer) to Powell (Louisville escort), but appears unwilling to cooperate in any investigation. Interesting development. In an interview with the Courier-Journal, Cady says "My feeling is that they [U of L consultant Smrt & his staff] needed more groundwork before they could really jump into stuff. They need to read the book."

Sounds like this move could be a maneuver to sell more books, or simply a guy preferring not to do other people's work for them. Either way, Cady has put his and his company's reputation on the line for this book, so I imagine he's confident that the content is accurate.

On the "take it for what it's worth" tip, I've heard others with ties to credible Louisville athletics insiders who have taken the position that the information in the book isn't 100% accurate, but that most of it is. Not good for Louisville, if true.

This is not surprising at all given what we have learned from Mary Willingham. The way NCAA investigations work, if you provide the NCAA any information about violations a school has committed, the first thing they do is turn all of your info over to the accused school.

The relationship between the NCAA and the school during an investigation is not a true adversarial one like you might think it is.

[Tom B.]

....Louisville's internal consultant Chuck Smrt....

A quick digression....

I can't see that guy's name without reflexively thinking of this scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcGQpjCztgA) from The Simpsons. Anyone else, or am I the only one?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

A quick digression....

I can't see that guy's name without reflexively thinking of this scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcGQpjCztgA) from The Simpsons. Anyone else, or am I the only one?

It was my immediate thought

[KenTankerous]

Y'all know what's really dirty about all this - from the press to DBR's article to the Card fans I suffer everyday - is the slut shaming and whore blaming laid on the escort and her family.

Look, she was providing a service that provided a living for her and her family. Her kids followed in her footsteps, like most family businesses. Yes, they sold sex. But who among you doesn't LOVE her product? And if it wasn't in demand, she'd be out of business. Do not criticize her in one breathe and praise the capitalism that "makes this country great" in the next.

Look 2.0, every campus has these services. Louisville is just a little more honest about it. We pay our hookers. Duke calls them duchesses, I think I read they got extra meal credits, no?

I'm just tickled that UofL is in the ACC now. You needed a new Maryland...

[tux]

Y'all know what's really dirty about all this - from the press to DBR's article to the Card fans I suffer everyday - is the slut shaming and whore blaming laid on the escort and her family.

Look, she was providing a service that provided a living for her and her family. Her kids followed in her footsteps, like most family businesses. Yes, they sold sex. But who among you doesn't LOVE her product? And if it wasn't in demand, she'd be out of business. Do not criticize her in one breathe and praise the capitalism that "makes this country great" in the next.

Look 2.0, every campus has these services. Louisville is just a little more honest about it. We pay our hookers. Duke calls them duchesses, I think I read they got extra meal credits, no?

I'm just tickled that UofL is in the ACC now. You needed a new Maryland...


Everyone's looking for a reason to use the phrase "slut shaming" these days... not sure why you decided to tack on "whore blaming" -- I don't think that one's caught on yet. Honestly, most of the accounts I've read have focused more on what this may mean for Louisville's basketball program. The fact that there are prostitutes working in Louisville probably isn't very controversial.

[KenTankerous]

The term "slut shaming" is ubiquitous because the practice is part and parcel with white male supremacy and we are calling it out for what it is.

If you could be so kind, we are a genteel town. It isn't prostitution. We call them love brokers.

And how exactly are your "duchesses" different?

[tux]

The term "slut shaming" is ubiquitous because the practice is part and parcel with white male supremacy and we are calling it out for what it is.

If you could be so kind, we are a genteel town. It isn't prostitution. We call them love brokers.

And how exactly are your "duchesses" different?


I don't think it's part and parcel with white male supremacy. My understanding is that "slut shaming" primarily describes something that women do to each other. I.e., women calling other women sluts for sexual behaviour deemed to fall outside traditional expectations. Men mostly are okay with women who like to have sex, at least in my experience. And I would think getting paid to be a "love broker" wouldn't really overlap the phenomenon of "slut shaming" if we were to construct that particular Venn diagram. But I could be wrong.

But I see what you're doing. Duke has "Duchesses" that host visitors on campus, including (I'm assuming) athletic recruits. The question is whether they're being paid to have sex with recruits as well. Interestingly, Duke also has "Dukes", the male version of the Duchesses. I wonder if the Dukes are getting paid to have sex with female visitors? If so, talk about a highly competitive application process...

[Duke95]

The term "slut shaming" is ubiquitous because the practice is part and parcel with white male supremacy and we are calling it out for what it is.

If you could be so kind, we are a genteel town. It isn't prostitution. We call them love brokers.

And how exactly are your "duchesses" different?

Wait, you're asking how these people http://sites.duke.edu/dukesandduchesses/sample-page/
are different from hiring prostitutes to show up during a recruiting visit?

[sagegrouse]

The "news value" of this thread has disappeared. It needs either a clean-up or a shut-down.

[KenTankerous]

Wait, you're asking how these people http://sites.duke.edu/dukesandduchesses/sample-page/
are different from hiring prostitutes to show up during a recruiting visit?

Yes, I am.

What? Your white bread, highly educated, socially sophisticated "campus guides" are some how better, or more appropriate, than strippers and hookers?

OK, if you wanna clothe the issue that way...

My point being that instead of aiming the blame for this scandal at the administration, coaches and families that allowed it, DBR's article, the press and folks talking about it are pushing the blame onto the folks providing an in-demand service. You wouldn't be blaming the tattoo artist for a tattoo for ticket exchange. Why are we focusing on the strippers and hookers when clearly there is a lack of institutional oversight on Jurich's watch, again.

[Acymetric]

Yes, I am.

What? Your white bread, highly educated, socially sophisticated "campus guides" are some how better, or more appropriate, than strippers and hookers?

OK, if you wanna clothe the issue that way...

My point being that instead of aiming the blame for this scandal at the administration, coaches and families that allowed it, DBR's article, the press and folks talking about it are pushing the blame onto the folks providing an in-demand service. You wouldn't be blaming the tattoo artist for a tattoo for ticket exchange. Why are we focusing on the strippers and hookers when clearly there is a lack of institutional oversight on Jurich's watch, again.

I usually enjoy your contributions to the board but you are going a little off the rails with some of these posts. Not sure this is the right direction for this thread anyway, let's just call it a day and focus the thread back on any news regarding the situation. Don't think this back and forth is convincing anyone (on either side) of anything.

[KenTankerous]

I usually enjoy your contributions to the board but you are going a little off the rails with some of these posts. Not sure this is the right direction for this thread anyway, let's just call it a day and focus the thread back on any news regarding the situation. Don't think this back and forth is convincing anyone (on either side) of anything.

OK. I will oblidge.

Thanks for pointing out my disruption(?).

[English]

Yes, I am.

What? Your white bread, highly educated, socially sophisticated "campus guides" are some how better, or more appropriate, than strippers and hookers?

OK, if you wanna clothe the issue that way...

My point being that instead of aiming the blame for this scandal at the administration, coaches and families that allowed it, DBR's article, the press and folks talking about it are pushing the blame onto the folks providing an in-demand service. You wouldn't be blaming the tattoo artist for a tattoo for ticket exchange. Why are we focusing on the strippers and hookers when clearly there is a lack of institutional oversight on Jurich's watch, again.

Um, what? If you didn't have four pitchforks by your name I'd assume you were a troll. I'm still pretty certain you're a UofL troll. It's unclear to me whether you work in the sex trade, but the fact that you try to pull a false equivalency with the Duke Duchesses and the Louisvile hookers is laughable.

[freshmanjs]

Phenomenal quotes from Terrance Williams here (http://www.cardchronicle.com/2015/10/12/9507899/luke-hancock-and-terrence-williams-speak-out-on-louisville-basketball), including this gem


I am not a part of that. To Louisville I am f**king Elvis Presley. So why would I pay anybody for anything?

[tux]

Phenomenal quotes from Terrance Williams here (http://www.cardchronicle.com/2015/10/12/9507899/luke-hancock-and-terrence-williams-speak-out-on-louisville-basketball), including this gem

That actually touches on one of the stranger parts of the story. One wouldn't think that the basketball players at Louisville would need someone to pay women to "hang out" with them... and in terms of recruits, it seems a little too risky with not much upside. If there's any truth to this at all, my guess is that McGee got in a little over his head trying to set up some entertainment for recruits. I.e., invited some folks he didn't realize were expecting to get paid.

[Henderson]

[T]he fact that you try to pull a false equivalency with the Duke Duchesses and the Louisvile hookers is laughable.

Yup.

And let's be clear, because one of the benefits of a good liberal arts education is the ability to discern this from that.

It is different if the girl is not a student and is paid for escorting recruits around their dorm room with the understanding that sex is involved (as alleged in the Louisville case). Duke ain't never been that. If someone (hello, Ken) thinks that's ever been the Duke program... Well, you need to get a new nighttime fantasy.

People like KenT should not besmirch strangers, about which they know nothing, by positing a false equivalence. It only reveals a failure of a person's liberal arts education -- the inability to distinguish examples that are different, and that's sad if that person has some Duke connection.

Edit: Just saw that KenTankerous posts from Louisville. That explains as much as needs to be explained for purposes of this thread.

[JasonEvans]

ESPN OTL is reporting (http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13927159/former-louisville-cardinals-basketball-players-recruits-acknowledge-stripper-parties-minardi-hall) that it has interviewed 5 former Louisville recruits who have confirmed the hooker stories. Ouch!!


One of the former players said he had sex with a dancer after (assistant coach Andre) McGee paid her. Each of the players and recruits attended different parties at Billy Minardi Hall, where dancers, many of whom stripped naked, were present. Three of the five players said they attended parties as recruits and also when they played for Louisville.

Said one of the recruits who ultimately signed to play elsewhere: "I knew they weren't college girls. It was crazy. It was like I was in a strip club."

-Jason "I'd say this qualifies as 'extra benefits' and the NCAA is gonna make life very tough for Pitino's program" Evans

[Saratoga2]

ESPN Behind the Lines did a show about the situation this morning. What a mess. Most of the Louisville players were being recruited using sex from hookers accoring to the allegations. They had the women who arranged the parties and some of the individual girls that had sex come on TV. The upshot is the facilitator said that it went on for years and she believed Pitino had to know what was going on. We should never have let them into the ACC.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Ugh. I for one am really getting tired of coaches using ignorance as an excuse - Pitino, Paterno, Ol Roy...

Why do coaches think that "not knowing" about scandals under their watch is a viable alibi?

This is too bad. Really hoped it wasn't true.

[Atlanta Duke]

As part of the playbook to stall imposition of any sanctions maybe a former Kentucky governor can be brought on board by Louisville to conduct an internal investigation

[Kfanarmy]

Yes, I am.

What? Your white bread, highly educated, socially sophisticated "campus guides" are some how better, or more appropriate, than strippers and hookers?

OK, if you wanna clothe the issue that way...

My point being that instead of aiming the blame for this scandal at the administration, coaches and families that allowed it, DBR's article, the press and folks talking about it are pushing the blame onto the folks providing an in-demand service. You wouldn't be blaming the tattoo artist for a tattoo for ticket exchange. Why are we focusing on the strippers and hookers when clearly there is a lack of institutional oversight on Jurich's watch, again.

what does "white bread" mean?

[Lid]

what does "white bread" mean?

One answer (http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/white-bread), so you don't have to go to Urban Dictionary.

[cato]

As part of the playbook to stall imposition of any sanctions maybe a former Kentucky governor can be brought on board by Louisville to conduct an internal investigation

In this case, they may want to go across the river and hire former Cincinnati councilman Jerry Springer. He knows a thing or two about bouncing back from scandals like this.

[Kfanarmy]

Thanks Lid...Not that I didn't want to look it up, was curious what KenTankerous meant by it. I'm all about my daughter being "naively wholesome," so I don't find it quite as derogatory as others want it to be.

[TKG]

Jay Bilas: I believe Rick Pitino knew nothing about parties (2:01)


This quote was taken from the front page of ESPN.com There is video as well.

[cspan37421]

Extraordinary claims, meet extraordinary evidence.
For an organization supposedly on the brink of a terminal disease, the NCAA sure is busy lately.

[oldnavy]

Ugh. I for one am really getting tired of coaches using ignorance as an excuse - Pitino, Paterno, Ol Roy...

Why do coaches think that "not knowing" about scandals under their watch is a viable alibi?

This is too bad. Really hoped it wasn't true.

I agree 100%. Ignorance is no excuse. Besides, the leader's responsibility is to set down the rules of what will be tolerated and what will not. If the head coach meets regularly with his staff and stresses a no tolerance policy for immoral, unethical, and illegal activities the likelihood of something happening drops precipitously. The leadership at UNC, UoL, etc... seem to feel they could get away with it which begs the question WHY?? What is the climate at those schools??

When I had sailors that I was responsible for you can be sure that the Junior Officers, Chief Petty Officers and LPO's knew that any deviation or the appearance of deviation from the UCMJ would be dealt with swiftly and harshly. These fine leaders ensured that this policy was communicated to the rest of the command. Amazingly, I never had to go there with my sailors....

[Pghdukie]

This is a sad situation. As old Navy points out - the Cruise movie "A Few Good Men" -who ordered the Code Red !

[devildeac]

As part of the playbook to stall imposition of any sanctions maybe a former Kentucky governor can be brought on board by Louisville to conduct an internal investigation

I see what you did there...

GTHc, GTH.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I agree 100%. Ignorance is no excuse. Besides, the leader's responsibility is to set down the rules of what will be tolerated and what will not. If the head coach meets regularly with his staff and stresses a no tolerance policy for immoral, unethical, and illegal activities the likelihood of something happening drops precipitously. The leadership at UNC, UoL, etc... seem to feel they could get away with it which begs the question WHY?? What is the climate at those schools??

When I had sailors that I was responsible for you can be sure that the Junior Officers, Chief Petty Officers and LPO's knew that any deviation or the appearance of deviation from the UCMJ would be dealt with swiftly and harshly. These fine leaders ensured that this policy was communicated to the rest of the command. Amazingly, I never had to go there with my sailors....

Something we agree on! :)

"Plausible deniability" is a phrase you hear in shows with political intrigue when someone is protecting the administration.

I hope never to find out, but K strikes me as the sort not to throw up his hands in the face of a scandal and say "how could I have known?"

At some point, especially in college athletics where coaches micromanage every aspect of a program, doesn't ultimate responsibility lie with the top of the food chain? Can't we look at someone like Roy or Ricky and say "if you knew, that was terrible judgment. If you didn't know, that was irresponsible. Either way, it rests with you."

[Atlanta Duke]

Seth Greenberg perhaps not a member of Team Pitino based on this tweet

Elite coaches R paid like CEOs.If this was a Fortune500 company would the CEO be held responsible?What would the repercussions B on the CEO?

https://twitter.com/SethOnHoops/status/656450710008147968

Has Seth expressed his opinion on the accountability of other ACC head coaches for programs mired in a major scandal?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Seth Greenberg perhaps not a member of Team Pitino based on this tweet

Elite coaches R paid like CEOs.If this was a Fortune500 company would the CEO be held responsible?What would the repercussions B on the CEO?

https://twitter.com/SethOnHoops/status/656450710008147968

Has Seth expressed his opinion on the accountability of other ACC head coaches for programs mired in a major scandal?

I agree with Seth? God, I need a bleach shower.

[JasonEvans]

It does not matter whether Rick knew or if he has plausible deniability. NCAA rules are very clear about head coaches being responsible for the actions of assistant coaches. Rick will burn for this. I can't imagine he will get less than a half season suspension for this... probably more.

-Jason "I'm going to put it out there now... Ville will be looking for a new coach by 2017" Evans

[Henderson]

Seth Greenberg perhaps not a member of Team Pitino based on this tweet

Elite coaches R paid like CEOs.If this was a Fortune500 company would the CEO be held responsible?What would the repercussions B on the CEO?

https://twitter.com/SethOnHoops/status/656450710008147968

Has Seth expressed his opinion on the accountability of other ACC head coaches for programs mired in a major scandal?

Seth's analogy doesn't work. In a Fortune 500 company, the responsible parties would be fired, and the CEO would keep on CEOing. That's what make Seth's tweet ironic. The NCAA is unusual as an organization in how far up the chain its sanctions reach, even if the "CEO" claims lack of knowledge.

Or maybe that's exactly what Seth meant....

[weezie]

I heard the interview with the hooker who wrote the book on ESPN this afternoon. She's claiming she made one call to the NCAA to tell them about her activities but the "young white guy" she talked to said he wasn't interested and hung up on her.

[OldPhiKap]

I agree with Seth? God, I need a bleach shower.

I think Seth only takes bubble baths.

[Kfanarmy]

It does not matter whether Rick knew or if he has plausible deniability. NCAA rules are very clear about head coaches being responsible for the actions of assistant coaches. Rick will burn for this. I can't imagine he will get less than a half season suspension for this... probably more.

-Jason "I'm going to put it out there now... Ville will be looking for a new coach by 2017" Evans

Good Lord, what would you anticipate him getting for tampering with the schools entire academic underpinnings! Is this just another example of the lack of equity in punishment between blue collar and white collar crime?

[weezie]

I think Seth only takes bubble baths.

That's one nauseating mental image right there, dear OPK. I salute you. :eek:

[weezie]

... Ville will be looking for a new coach by 2017...

Way to stick your neck out! I'm going much earlier. Doubt he withstands this past November?

[Pghdukie]

That's one nauseating mental image right there, dear OPK. I salute you. :eek:

Don't forget about the red rose petals.

[Pghdukie]

Way to stick your neck out! I'm going much earlier. Doubt he withstands this past November?

Just a matter of time til the powers within say enough is enough. 1 episode with Ricky and his alleged escapades we can hide. This one is just way too deep. Plus I lost a lot of money on my Boston Celtics stock when he was running that show.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Just a matter of time til the powers within say enough is enough. 1 episode with Ricky and his alleged escapades we can hide. This one is just way too deep. Plus I lost a lot of money on my Boston Celtics stock when he was running that show.

Now the Celtics have the opposite problem: amazing coach, weird roster. He's to a five-seed and losing to the Cavs in the 2nd round of play-offs.

[Jim3k]

Louisvile.

You're welcome. It's probably not original with me, though. Kinda like UCon.

[Olympic Fan]

I don't understand all the moral outrage in this thread.

The only difference between what Louisville is being accused of doing and what almost every big-time football and basketball program does is that Louisville is being accused of paying professionals to provide sex to prospects and athletes. At most schools, coaches and/or staff members line up coeds who are willing to provide it for free.

I realize that the first is probably a more blatant violation of NCAA rules, but morally, I don't see very much difference between what Louisville is being accused of doing and what every SEC football program (and quite a few ACC schools) do.

[brevity]

I don't understand all the moral outrage in this thread.

The only difference between what Louisville is being accused of doing and what almost every big-time football and basketball program does is that Louisville is being accused of paying professionals to provide sex to prospects and athletes. At most schools, coaches and/or staff members line up coeds who are willing to provide it for free.

I realize that the first is probably a more blatant violation of NCAA rules, but morally, I don't see very much difference between what Louisville is being accused of doing and what every SEC football program (and quite a few ACC schools) do.

It boils down to one essential distinction: it's okay to do it for your school, but it's not okay to do it for the money.

[KenTankerous]

I don't understand all the moral outrage in this thread.

The only difference between what Louisville is being accused of doing and what almost every big-time football and basketball program does is that Louisville is being accused of paying professionals to provide sex to prospects and athletes. At most schools, coaches and/or staff members line up coeds who are willing to provide it for free.

I realize that the first is probably a more blatant violation of NCAA rules, but morally, I don't see very much difference between what Louisville is being accused of doing and what every SEC football program (and quite a few ACC schools) do.

Thank you OF! My caustic, abrasive delivery didn't get this point across a few pages ago. (I knew I was WAY off track when someone called me a UofL fan. Blahhhk!)

Pitino's not going to get the ax. Fans here are shrugging this off as just another benefit for elite athletes. It's playing big on ESPN, but locally, crickets.

Now, if the Cards end up in the NIT or exit The Dance first round, then it might be the crowbar.

[cspan37421]

She's claiming she made one call to the NCAA to tell them about her activities but the "young white guy" she talked to said he wasn't interested and hung up on her.

because we can all detect skin color through audio waves.

[JasonEvans]

Way to stick your neck out! I'm going much earlier. Doubt he withstands this past November?

I said 2017 because I figure the NCAA investigation will take some time. I think Pitino survives this season.

-Jason "the key difference in a willing coed and payed professional is that there is an actual monetary value placed on the transaction... that is what makes it a serious NCAA violation" Evans

[Tom B.]

"the key difference in a willing coed and payed professional is that there is an actual monetary value placed on the transaction... that is what makes it a serious NCAA violation"


Not to mention a....um....you know, what's that word?

Oh yeah.....crime.

[devildeac]

Which kinda/sorta reminds me of this:

The following is an old story due to George Bernard Shaw. It seems more appropriate with Groucho however.

GROUCHO (to woman seated next to him at an elegant dinner party): Would you sleep with me for ten million dollars?

WOMAN (giggles and responds): Oh, Groucho, of course I would.

GROUCHO; How about doing it for fifteen dollars?

WOMAN (indignant): Why, what do you think I am?

GROUCHO: That’s already been established. Now we’re just haggling about the price.

[Jeffrey]

I don't understand all the moral outrage in this thread.

The only difference between what Louisville is being accused of doing and what almost every big-time football and basketball program does is that Louisville is being accused of paying professionals to provide sex to prospects and athletes. At most schools, coaches and/or staff members line up coeds who are willing to provide it for free.

I realize that the first is probably a more blatant violation of NCAA rules, but morally, I don't see very much difference between what Louisville is being accused of doing and what every SEC football program (and quite a few ACC schools) do.

True, none of these practices should be allowed. There's no way Duke can compete.

[BigWayne]

Pitino is skipping the media day on Wednesday to avoid having to talk to the press about the scandal. (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/13956000/rick-pitino-louisville-cardinals-coach-not-attend-acc-media-day)

Wonder how that will play with Swofford and Roy.

[westwall]

True, none of these practices should be allowed. There's no way Duke can compete.


I see what you did there. Tsk. tsk.

[BD80]

Pitino is skipping the media day on Wednesday to avoid having to talk to the press about the scandal. (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/13956000/rick-pitino-louisville-cardinals-coach-not-attend-acc-media-day)

Wonder how that will play with Swofford and Roy.

Like they needed an introduction to the no-show concept

[lotusland]

I think Seth only takes bubble baths.

Well played !

[Tom B.]

Pitino is skipping the media day on Wednesday to avoid having to talk to the press about the scandal. (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/13956000/rick-pitino-louisville-cardinals-coach-not-attend-acc-media-day)

Wonder how that will play with Swofford and Roy.


Kornheiser and Wilbon talked about this on PTI yesterday. The words "gutless" and "coward" were used several times.

So is Pitino going to send some poor assistant in his place?

[royalblue]

Sounds like Roy when he left his players on the court a few years back at FSU while he was off the court safely. Great leadership

[BigWayne]

NCAA issued the allegations today. 4 level 1's. (http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/louisville/2016/10/20/university-of-louisville-receives-ncaa-notice-allegations-basketball-program/91603198/)

[devildeac]

NCAA issued the allegations today. 4 level 1's. (http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/louisville/2016/10/20/university-of-louisville-receives-ncaa-notice-allegations-basketball-program/91603198/)

unc has their response ready:

1. Deny
2. Not ncaa jurisdiction
3. We've corrected the problem that never did happen.
4. See #s 1-3 above

Bastards.

[Dukerulz]

unc has their response ready:

1. Deny
2. Not ncaa jurisdiction
3. We've corrected the problem that never did happen.
4. See #s 1-3 above

Bastards.

But they offered the same benefits to all incoming freshman dads so no foul.