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View Full Version : Is K-Ville going away?



Bluedawg
09-25-2007, 04:39 PM
Rumor has it that a proposal has been made to get rid of K-ville and go to more of a lottery system like carolina does. Has anyone heard anything about this?

I would hate to see that happen...!

Ignatius07
09-25-2007, 04:43 PM
I really doubt this would happen. Even if the administration tries, I think there would be too loud an outcry from past and current students. The only way I foresee K-Ville meeting it's demise would involve a tenter's death or serious illness.

blazindw
09-25-2007, 04:45 PM
Rumor has it that a proposal has been made to get rid of K-ville and go to more of a lottery system like carolina does. Has anyone heard anything about this?

I would hate to see that happen...!

This article explains the new policy proposal...a far cry from when I was running things...

http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2007/09/24/News/Line-Policy.Aims.To.Cut.Wait.For.Tix-2987168.shtml

SilkyJ
09-25-2007, 04:51 PM
This article explains the new policy proposal...a far cry from when I was running things...

http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2007/09/24/News/Line-Policy.Aims.To.Cut.Wait.For.Tix-2987168.shtml

I stopped reading after the first sentence:

"In an effort to boost basketball game attendance rates"

What?!?! Since when do we need to boost attendance rates? And if we actually do, then wow, things have changed in 365 days since i graduated (late)

MulletMan
09-25-2007, 05:02 PM
From what I hear there is no change to the tenting games... i.e. K-Ville. That part of the policy is standing pat. Its the policy for the other games that is changing.

Blazin' DW has more authority to comment, though...

And yes... Cameron has been less than full in the Ugrad sections several times in the past year or two. Don't worry, as soon as it happens again, someone will start a thread. (See The Handy Pocket Guide for a reference...)

pratt '04
09-25-2007, 05:27 PM
My understanding is that this system is very similar to what many people have been asking for in the numerous "undergrad game attendance" threads over the past couple years. Namely:


This policy is only in effect for non-tenting games (K-ville is not affected)
Students planning to attend a game are asked to indicate this intent via the web a few days in advance of each game
If the number of students planning to attend a particular game is significantly lower than the number of undergrad seats, the athletic department will sell/give away/distribute some of those seats to various groups
Undergrad seating will still be first come, first served for those who validated their Duke Cards by logging into said web site
Any undergrad who didn't validate his/her Duke Card but still wants to go to the game can wait in a walk-up line and will be let in at some point before tip-off if there is still room in the undergrad section


That's my understanding of it, anyway.

LetItBD08
09-25-2007, 07:25 PM
This new proposal is really not changing much. From reading the article it seems like the biggest change is no more wristband games (which is a good thing - that system was atrocious).

It seems that this policy will mostly come into play the games when we aren't on campus for scheduled games. For them the people in charge have no clue what student turn out will be. Sometimes (see Valpo Dec '05) a lot of students wait around a couple days (after finals are done in this instance) to catch a game before they head home. Duke athletics underestimates this and sells tickets to the public leaving undergrads out of the undergrad section. So instead of having to sneak undergrads in dressed as line monitors (a real awesome idea - it worked too!) everyone will have an accurate count of the demand.

And yes attendance was not the same last year as it was my first two years here. I'm really confident that we'll have packed houses all the time this year. Five games in two weeks just before finals was tough for a lot of students to handle last year. The dip in attendenance saddened me too.

jimsumner
09-25-2007, 07:34 PM
"What?!?! Since when do we need to boost attendance rates?"

A good many of the lower-profile home games have--how should I put it--more room in the student section than optimally desirable.

throatybeard
09-25-2007, 09:24 PM
And yes attendance was not the same last year as it was my first two years here. I'm really confident that we'll have packed houses all the time this year. Five games in two weeks just before finals was tough for a lot of students to handle last year. The dip in attendenance saddened me too.

If "not the same" means less, then that's WAY down historically because it was already low in my last gradskool season, 2003 and 2004.

LetItBD08
09-25-2007, 10:48 PM
Yeah attendance was obviously down last year. It's going to change this year. The freshmen class is excited, and anyone can tell you that K-ville and Cameron Crazie quality depends a ton on the freshmen. The new Head Line Monitor is beyond committed to making sure that turnout is at it's max and K-ville remains amazing, and the other line monitors are on board. Trust me this year is going to be great in all aspects.

Wander
09-25-2007, 11:29 PM
Speaking of the line monitors, I wonder if that's a factor at all in attendence rates. The Head Line Monitor in 2006 was much better than the one in 2007 (and as a result the quality of the line monitors in general was MUCH better in 2006). I'm guessing she was also better than the HLM for this upcoming season will be, though I guess it's only fair to let it play out.

Bluedawg
09-25-2007, 11:30 PM
This article explains the new policy proposal...a far cry from when I was running things...

http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2007/09/24/News/Line-Policy.Aims.To.Cut.Wait.For.Tix-2987168.shtml

K-ville is an institution and one I look forward to each year. it is unique and stands apart from other universities.

blazindw
09-25-2007, 11:46 PM
Speaking of the line monitors, I wonder if that's a factor at all in attendence rates. The Head Line Monitor in 2006 was much better than the one in 2007 (and as a result the quality of the line monitors in general was MUCH better in 2006). I'm guessing she was also better than the HLM for this upcoming season will be, though I guess it's only fair to let it play out.

The Head Line Monitor can only do so much...it's the staff that does most of the work as a whole and are on the front lines when the HLM just cannot be there. If people trust the entire staff (not just the HLM), then they are more likely to cooperate with rules changes, and everyone has a better time. One thing that I liked to do back in 2003-2004 was to let tenters come up with ideas to get people out there. By trusting them with some programming and abilities to get kids to games, more came out. It made our job a bit tougher logistically (trying to cram 1700 students in line into a 1200 student section is never easy), but it was a good problem to have. Nevertheless, K-Ville has to have a balance. The Line Monitors have to know what the students want, and they have to also make sure everything is in order. The students show up in force, and if they don't like something, they tell a Line Monitor or the HLM. The trust must be there though. I was on the staff in 2003, and those were in school back then will tell you what not trusting the HLM or his staff leads to.

From my experience, the majority of people appreciated wristband games over any other policy. You lined up, got your wristband, and were able to go home, reforming the line 2 hours before the game started in the order you were. From what I see in this proposed policy, you can register online and show up when you want, but to get center court, front row, TV side you will have to wait in line a considerable amount of time, something that the wristband policy eliminated. It will be interesting to see how the policy plays out this year, though, but like I said, the wristband policy was the easiest policy to enforce on both sides, both for students and for the staff.

Wander
09-26-2007, 12:01 AM
Oh, I know the HLM doesn't have complete control over everything that's going on, I'm kind of just thinking out loud about how much an effect the Head Line Monitor and line monitors in general have.

I think the HLM can affect, to some degree, the quality of the rest of the line monitors. The line monitors were better in 06 than in 07, and I can't help but think that's a reflection of the HLM being better in 06 than in 07.

LetItBD08
09-26-2007, 12:02 AM
The Head Line Monitor can only do so much...it's the staff that does most of the work as a whole and are on the front lines when the HLM just cannot be there. If people trust the entire staff (not just the HLM), then they are more likely to cooperate with rules changes, and everyone has a better time. One thing that I liked to do back in 2003-2004 was to let tenters come up with ideas to get people out there. By trusting them with some programming and abilities to get kids to games, more came out. It made our job a bit tougher logistically (trying to cram 1700 students in line into a 1200 student section is never easy), but it was a good problem to have. Nevertheless, K-Ville has to have a balance. The Line Monitors have to know what the students want, and they have to also make sure everything is in order. The students show up in force, and if they don't like something, they tell a Line Monitor or the HLM. The trust must be there though. I was on the staff in 2003, and those were in school back then will tell you what not trusting the HLM or his staff leads to.

From my experience, the majority of people appreciated wristband games over any other policy. You lined up, got your wristband, and were able to go home, reforming the line 2 hours before the game started in the order you were. From what I see in this proposed policy, you can register online and show up when you want, but to get center court, front row, TV side you will have to wait in line a considerable amount of time, something that the wristband policy eliminated. It will be interesting to see how the policy plays out this year, though, but like I said, the wristband policy was the easiest policy to enforce on both sides, both for students and for the staff.
DW-Although I wasn't at Duke yet, when I got there you had a great reputation because you cared about K-ville and cared about Duke Basketball. You were out there a lot without the power trip. This was not the case with last year's HLM. She was seldom out in K-ville unless it was completely necessary and was not approachable at all. I think this year's HLM genuinely loves K-ville, and he is going to do everything he can to keep it great. This includes the stuff you said. Also I think the line monitors this year have been experienced tenters in the past and truly love being in K-ville. No power trip this year.

As for the wristband policy, the dynamic has definitely changed over the past several years. The intent was that you could line up the night before for a wristband and not have to worry about waiting long in line on game day or miss class. Unfortunately however it became a long wait the day before and a long wait the day of the game as new precedences continued to be formed. Instead of missing out on no classes, students were missing out on potentially two days of classes, and that's obviously not a good thing.

blazindw
09-26-2007, 12:19 AM
LetItBD--it sounds like you guys are on the right track. The line monitors definitely should be fully integrated with the rest of the K-Ville population. That's exactly what I tried to do. I mean, it was pretty easy for me...all of my friends tented, so what was I going to do, stay home? K-Ville should be a fun time with its focus centered around supporting our basketball teams--men and women--in a fun and unique atmosphere. As long as you keep that at the forefront of everything you do, you will have the respect of the students, and it will be a fun year.

I'm hoping to come down for a game or two this year (much easier for me now living in DC), and I'd love to relive the line monitor experience and help you guys out for a game when I'm down there, so long as I am welcome.

Cali-Duke
09-26-2007, 01:52 AM
Attendance did fall last year. Every game in the 2005-2006 season was packed. Unfortunately, people were not as excited to go to games this past season. You could literally walk into any game other than UNC and get seats on the stands either in the first couple rows at the ends of the student section, or in the middle in one of the back rows. That is just pitiful. It should be impossible to walk in when the game is just starting/has already started.

Bluedawg
09-26-2007, 08:26 AM
K-Ville should be a fun time with its focus centered around supporting our basketball teams--men and women--in a fun and unique atmosphere.

I'm happy to hear you include the women in your comments. So often I feel they get overlooked.

grc5
09-26-2007, 09:56 AM
I'm not sure whether there is a link between line monitor quality and declining attendance.

I will attest to the fact that line monitors have gotten much worse over the years, however. Donald Wine was the HLM my freshman year, and certainly the best I had at Duke. The LMs last year were often downright mean; I remember a lot of rude yelling at students through bullhorns.

Anyway, hooray for the new policy. The hardcore fans will still be front and center, and the "normals" will be able to ensure a place in Cameron without jumping through hoops.

DukeUsul
09-26-2007, 10:14 AM
I'd love to see them make any of the empty seats available to local alums (or more accurately, local alums like me who are Iron Dukes but can't afford to be anywhere near the level required to even think about getting real tickets). It's always been a bummer to see the ends of the ugrad sections empty for games, knowing that my wife and I could be over there in minutes to fill in and we'd be screaming our heads off.....

We always buy the tickets we can for the winter break games, but those aren't the only ones where there is sparse ugrad attendance.

LetItBD08
09-26-2007, 11:51 AM
DukeUsul - I don't know what the fine details are going to entail yet, but since there will be such a quick turnaround from when the athletic dept knows how many empty spaces there will be to game time, this might be beneficial. Again, things are still up in the air as to who exactly those extras would go to. It will be on the non-TV side though.

Thanks for the nice words DW. A lot of us know of you, and you're obviously welcome in K-ville forever. I don't know if you have been talking with this year's HLM, but you're both very similar and I'm sure he's open to talking with someone who's experienced the non-trivial task of keeping K-ville great.

dukeberto
09-26-2007, 04:31 PM
The line monitors definitely should be fully integrated with the rest of the K-Ville population. K-Ville should be a fun time with its focus centered around supporting our basketball teams--men and women--in a fun and unique atmosphere. As long as you keep that at the forefront of everything you do, you will have the respect of the students, and it will be a fun year.


This is exactly my goal for this K-ville season! Hi everyone, I'm the HLM for this year. I don't frequent DBR (but you can find me over at TDD pretty much all the time) however in reading this thread I felt that I had to comment. The new policy changes very very little. It's just guaranteeing you a spot in Cameron without having to, as many students have told me, "sacrificing 8 hours of your day". I feel like everyone that has commented on the thread has the right idea of how the policy works, so I won't try to clarify it anymore.

I just want you to know that I truly DO love K-ville and am willing to work as hard as anyone to return it to its glory days of it being a prime spot on campus. Our two main concerns right now are to 1) increase attendance in Cameron, and 2) remove the feelings of animosity that tenters have against the Line Monitors. We have to remember, we are ALL duke students, and we are ALL duke FANS! We ARE Crazies, we don't do this because we enjoy yelling at people, we do this because we care about the basketball teams, we care about being the best student section in the nation, we care about DUKE. I refuse to let someone's opinion of "the line monitors are an elite group that meet behind closed doors and are out there just to get as much power as possible" deter us from cheering our butts off for duke. Yes, the line monitors do have some sort of power, however it's not about the power, it's about making the tenting and lining up experience as great as possible.
DW, I've PMed you but I would be very interested in hearing some of the suggestions you received in the past on how to improve K-ville as I have begun making a list from student feedback that I've gotten in the past couple of weeks and honestly want to make K-ville better.

Thank you for everyone's concern regarding K-ville and attendance at games. I hope to be lurking around these boards more often, especially as basketball season approaches (however I also have obligations with the football team that I have to deal with thru the end of Nov.)
-DukeBerto
HLM 07-08

dukemomLA
09-26-2007, 06:56 PM
Greetings to dukeberto, the new HLM. If you don't lurk or post on this site on a regular basis, you are missing a REAL TREAT!!

That said, I am horrified that attendance of students has decreased over the past few years. My daughter and son-in-law graduated in 2001. They spent many, many, many hours in freezing cold tents -- to their pleasure -- for the awesome priviledge of being a Crazie.

If that has changed so much in 5 years -- something's wrong in administrativeville. .....hmmmmm....

throatybeard
09-26-2007, 07:00 PM
I have long thought that KVille is a time-limited enterprise, subject to litigation. We're just lucky it hasn't happened yet.

SilkyJ
09-26-2007, 07:37 PM
I have long thought that KVille is a time-limited enterprise, subject to litigation. We're just lucky it hasn't happened yet.

It does seem like an accident waiting to happen...then again, so does 90% of what goes on at college...

LetItBD08
09-26-2007, 10:30 PM
They spent many, many, many hours in freezing cold tents -- to their pleasure -- for the awesome priviledge of being a Crazie.

There hasn't been a dropoff in the number of crazies sleeping out in tents. That has been going strong for the past several years. Tenting in K-ville has reached capacity in no time at all every year I've been here.

Wander
09-26-2007, 10:47 PM
There hasn't been a dropoff in the number of crazies sleeping out in tents. That has been going strong for the past several years. Tenting in K-ville has reached capacity in no time at all every year I've been here.

True, but no one actually showed up for the Wake Forest tenting game in 2006. That should be a lesson... wait until December or so to determine what the second tenting game is, when you have a better idea of how good teams are.

blazindw
09-26-2007, 11:09 PM
True, but no one actually showed up for the Wake Forest tenting game in 2006. That should be a lesson... wait until December or so to determine what the second tenting game is, when you have a better idea of how good teams are.

You can institute tenting games based on the demand shown by students. I did not do it my year, but it happened once or twice when I was there (most notably Wake Forest in 2001). However, the decision must be made in conjunction with the athletic department, the administration, the fire marshal, and others, and the students must be notified with plenty of time to adjust their schedules. But, it is possible to be done, it's just rare to be done.

Wander
09-26-2007, 11:23 PM
Well, that's why I said December instead of January. I don't know how all the administration junk works but I have to imagine that's enough time. It just sucked because the Wake Forest game in 2006 was one of the emptiest I've ever seen Cameron during games that didn't take place over a break... and this was a tenting game! So why not wait a little while to make sure Maryland doesn't bomb this year before we assign them as a tenting game over NC State?