Summer grinds are out...

[Furniture]

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/8ZYicxWKQt8

The first anyway....you can get a better sense on how good he is from this. OAD?

[duke blue brewcrew]

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/8ZYicxWKQt8

The first anyway....you can get a better sense on how good he is from this. OAD?

I'd really like to see him play at the college level first against top notch competition before making any type of prediction on the potential OAD status. BI seems to have all the talent in the world. Stating the obvious, he's got to get stronger. I know he's faster and can out jump almost anyone he's going to be facing, but it wouldn't take much to push him around in the paint right now. IMHO.

[Edouble]

I'd love to see his moves at full speed as opposed to slow motion.

I believe it was this time last year that several posters were insisting that Semi was going to be in the rotation based on his Blue Planet video, so everything should be taken with a grain of salt. That said, BI looks pretty sick.

Does he spend any time doing squats? Those tricep pushdowns aren't going to help much.

[Furniture]

Check out this video on You Tube:

http://youtu.be/gjIedsoj5Po

What a great young man....

Was that a three that hit there or just a long two?

[gep]

Marshall's got the (Zou)beard!!! GO Marshall!!! I like his hook shots too:cool:

[Henderson]

Marshall's got the (Zou)beard!!! GO Marshall!!! I like his hook shots too:cool:

Yeah, I'm looking forward to a lethal MP3 skyhook. Looks like he's been working on it. I also liked the drive and dunk from 10 feet at 2:10 or so. With his 3 point shooting skills and ability to attack the basket like that, he's a natural stretch 4. And a huge one.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Check out this video on You Tube:

http://youtu.be/gjIedsoj5Po

What a great young man....

Was that a three that hit there or just a long two?

Why do basketball players always look bigger in the summer? I mean, MP3 looks huge! I don't remember him being that muscular!

[Henderson]

I mean, MP3 looks huge! I don't remember him being that muscular!

Agree. Bye-bye baby fat. He looks like he's in great shape.

[lotusland]

Marshall's got the (Zou)beard!!! GO Marshall!!! I like his hook shots too:cool: Yeah but that stache is bad

[CDu]

Check out this video on You Tube:

http://youtu.be/gjIedsoj5Po

What a great young man....

Was that a three that hit there or just a long two?

Looked like an elbow jumper (~15 ft).

Man, the pseudo captain morgan look sure is creepy.

[Furniture]

Chase the Jeter.

http://youtu.be/TH9mjncGZ4w

[Furniture]

https://instagram.com/p/6C4FWfRGer/

[Henderson]

https://instagram.com/p/6C4FWfRGer/

That was a great use of 2 minutes* of my time. Thanks for the link.






*20 second clip, but it's like Lay's Potato Chips; no one can [watch] just once.

[Furniture]

That was a great use of 2 minutes* of my time. Thanks for the link.

*20 second clip, but it's like Lay's Potato Chips; no one can [watch] just once.

Thanks very much. You are very welcome and I absolutely agree! If only he is as good as Seth!!!
Potentially he is so we have a lot to look forward to!!

[duke09hms]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHtoOziYeK8

Not on campus yet, but here's what he's been up to this summer. I think we will go as far as he can take us this year. Guy has all the athleticism, shooting, and physical skills we need for another deep run, but can he be the floor leader and make the right decisions on the court like Tyus?

Really wish he would have gotten on campus earlier this summer to build that team chemistry.

[duke blue brewcrew]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHtoOziYeK8

Not on campus yet, but here's what he's been up to this summer. I think we will go as far as he can take us this year. Guy has all the athleticism, shooting, and physical skills we need for another deep run, but can he be the floor leader and make the right decisions on the court like Tyus?

Really wish he would have gotten on campus earlier this summer to build that team chemistry.

I've been wondering this for a while now, but haven't bothered to look into it. Why is it that he isn't on campus yet? My ASSumption was, it was protocol to do summer school, get adjusted to campus life and do summer workouts with the team.

[CDu]

I've been wondering this for a while now, but haven't bothered to look into it. Why is it that he isn't on campus yet? My ASSumption was, it was protocol to do summer school, get adjusted to campus life and do summer workouts with the team.

My assumption as to why is similar to the Andre Dawkins situation: a re-classifier, Thornton may have needed another high school credit or two to graduate.

[duke09hms]

Since it's hard to assess how he'll do in college, especially bc he reclassified, does anyone know how he fared against some of the top guards that turned out to be college successes? Like if he ever played against guys like our Tyus or Tyler Ullis. I'd expect he did since he played at Findlay Prep, and it'd be a good benchmark to compare against known successes.

[JPtheGame]

I think we are all going to love this kid and Im betting he takes us very far. You can tell he's a student of the NBA game especially at 1:12-1:15. I believe that gets called in the ACC.

[lotusland]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHtoOziYeK8

Not on campus yet, but here's what he's been up to this summer. I think we will go as far as he can take us this year. Guy has all the athleticism, shooting, and physical skills we need for another deep run, but can he be the floor leader and make the right decisions on the court like Tyus?

Really wish he would have gotten on campus earlier this summer to build that team chemistry.

Wow kid didn't miss a shot all summer!

[NSDukeFan]

Wow kid didn't miss a shot all summer!

Shooting like that, he could compete for MP1 and MP3's career 3-point shooting percentage record.

[OldPhiKap]

Sweet!

[Henderson]

The young man has better springs than Tempurpedic.

Is it my imagination, or does Thornton sometimes give an extra little two-footed hop before shooting a jumpshot? Not always, but a few times at 1:55-2:05, it looked as though he comes to a stop with both feet, then before shooting takes a little two-footed hop. If Duke didn't get all the calls, I might wonder how NCAA officials would judge that.

[CDu]

The young man has better springs than Tempurpedic.

Is it my imagination, or does Thornton sometimes give an extra little two-footed hop before shooting a jumpshot? Not always, but a few times at 1:55-2:05, it looked as though he comes to a stop with both feet, then before shooting takes a little two-footed hop. If Duke didn't get all the calls, I might wonder how NCAA officials would judge that.

Definitely did so a few times. Most of the time the hop happened just as he was catching the ball, which is legal. Probably not a big thing as he was just shooting through drills there, and hopefully it won't happen in actual games. Also, if you watch closely, guys travel almost every time the get the ball, even before they dribble. So I wouldn't be too worried about it yet.

The biggest plus for me is that he looks substantially thicker than his earlier highlight videos (where he was a string bean). I don't expect him to be muscling guys around or anything, but I'm less concerned about his physical readiness now than I was previously.

[roywhite]

Liked the way he used the left hand for jams, and seemed to go well to the left.

Do he and Luke give us an "amphibious" backcourt combo?

[flyingdutchdevil]

...but can he a) lead, b) distribute, and c) not turn the ball over?

Physically, I think he's off the charts. He's quick doesn't seem to jump very high to get above the rim, which is pretty crazy considering that he's only 6'1" (and I'm pretty sure that Tyus is taller than him).

I think he's my new Redick/Nolan/Quinn, ie a player that I'll irrationally root for regardless of performance (and yes, all three of those players had amazing ends to their careers. In Redick's case, his junior/senior year).

[Ichabod Drain]

...but can he a) lead, b) distribute, and c) not turn the ball over?

Physically, I think he's off the charts. He's quick doesn't seem to jump very high to get above the rim, which is pretty crazy considering that he's only 6'1" (and I'm pretty sure that Tyus is taller than him).

I think he's my new Redick/Nolan/Quinn, ie a player that I'll irrationally root for regardless of performance (and yes, all three of those players had amazing ends to their careers. In Redick's case, his junior/senior year).

By all accounts I've seen he is a good distributor (averaged seven assists per game between his last two years of high school). We will have to see about the leadership and turnovers at the college level.

[roywhite]

By all accounts I've seen he is a good distributor (averaged seven assists per game between his last two years of high school). We will have to see about the leadership and turnovers at the college level.

We don't see defense in his individual work out, but that has been mentioned as one of Thornton's best attributes, with the potential to be an excellent on-ball defender.

[flyingdutchdevil]

We don't see defense in his individual work out, but that has been mentioned as one of Thornton's best attributes, with the potential to be an excellent on-ball defender.

This is what I've heard too. A line-up of Thornton, Jones, Ingram, Jefferson, and MP3 is just an insane defensive line-up. And a potential line-up of Thornton, Allen, Kennard, Ingram, and Jeter has the potential to be a force on offense as well (although I'm not as sold on our offense as I am on our defense this year).

[El_Diablo]

The young man has better springs than Tempurpedic.

Well, I would certainly hope so. Even Coach K has better springs than Tempurpedic.

[elvis14]

That was a fun video to watch. I know they edited out missed shots but it wasn't editing when he was hitting consecutive 3's. The thing that I noticed with this video is the speed and quickness. Derryck really covers ground quickly once he turns it on. He's going to be fun to watch.

When you play a video on youtube.com it'll pick related videos and play them right after. The video that followed Derryck's workout video was the 1992 National Championship game between Duke and Michigan. What a pleasant surprise...didn't expect to watch that again today. Note that the result of that game from today's viewing was the same as all the other viewings....Duke win's going away!

[duke blue brewcrew]

I enjoyed this one a lot. IMO it's tough not to love this kid if you're a Duke fan. A few remarks from Grayson that stuck out to me were...


"Personally, I lost my confidence last year...not because of my teammates or coaches...during the season, I started to gain it back...The Wake game was a big confidence builder for me, and to finish off the season like that was a huge confidence boost. So I think that's something that I now have and will forever keep, my confidence that I have in myself. It will be huge to return this year with that confidence..."

"Going into the season, we want to build on the work we put in this summer. We have the best fans in the world, I can say that and say it with confidence after being here for one season...We have a lot of great shooters this year, we'll be about to get out in transition and push the ball, we have a lot of guys who can attack the rim, and I think we will be a really good defensive team this year..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM1q0M_Yso8

[COYS]

Makes me want the offseason to end, already. Can't wait to see a few high-flying monster jams from Grayson this year, especially if we force more turnovers and get out in transition at a higher rate, this year. I'll definitely miss watching Justise's coast to coast one man fast breaks, but with Derryck's speed and Grayson and Brandon's hops, I think we'll see plenty of spectacular open court plays.

[luburch]

I have a strong feeling that Grayson may end up being on of my favorite Duke players when it's all said and done.

[duke blue brewcrew]

I have a strong feeling that Grayson may end up being on of my favorite Duke players of all time.

I can see that as a possibility as well. My Top 3 currently are:

1. Johnny "The Original Party Starter" Dawkins
2. Grant Hill
3. Shane "Who's Your Daddy" Battier

After that, it's hard for me to decide how to prioritize 4-10. Length of career has an impact, but so does what was accomplished while at Duke. Tyus "Big Stones" Jones, despite only wearing the uniform for one year, was epic. Chief Justise, I absolutely love that kid. With all due respect to Dominique, he's a human highlight reel waiting to happen. Jah was amazing, Brand, Curry, J Will, JJ, Duhon, Leattner, Ferry, Brickey and the list goes on and on.

[1 24 90]

1 - Bobby Hurley
2 - JJ Redick
3 - Wojo
4 - Jon Scheyer
5 - open but Grayson will soon be there and Luke Kennard has a chance too

[duke blue brewcrew]

I can see that as a possibility as well. My Top 3 currently are:

1. Johnny "The Original Party Starter" Dawkins
2. Grant Hill
3. Shane "Who's Your Daddy" Battier

After that, it's hard for me to decide how to prioritize 4-10. Length of career has an impact, but so does what was accomplished while at Duke. Tyus "Big Stones" Jones, despite only wearing the uniform for one year, was epic. Chief Justise, I absolutely love that kid. With all due respect to Dominique, he's a human highlight reel waiting to happen. Jah was amazing, Brand, Curry, J Will, JJ, Duhon, Leattner, Ferry, Brickey and the list goes on and on.

I'm not sure how Hurley didn't make it into my comments above, but he absolutely should have.

[TruBlu]

I have a strong feeling that Grayson may end up being on of my favorite Duke players when it's all said and done.

And he may end up being one of the most hated (by rivals) since JJ.

[Steven43]

1 - Bobby Hurley
2 - JJ Redick
3 - Wojo
4 - Jon Scheyer
5 - open but Grayson will soon be there and Luke Kennard has a chance too

Were you serious about this list?

[JPtheGame]

1. Laettner
2. Jay Will (on the floor. Behind a mic, no thanks)
3. JJ
4. Singler
5. Nolan

HM: Battier, Grant, Quinn

[duke09hms]

1 - Bobby Hurley
2 - JJ Redick
3 - Wojo
4 - Jon Scheyer
5 - open but Grayson will soon be there and Luke Kennard has a chance too

hmmm interesting ... haha

[OldPhiKap]

And he may end up being one of the most hated (by rivals) since JJ.

I'd put money on this.

[JNort]

Ewing, Nolan, JJ, Kyrie and MP2 but I feel Grayson could slide into my favorites list

[brlftz]

hmmm interesting ... haha

i thought so as well

[JPtheGame]

Ewing, Nolan, JJ, Kyrie and MP2 but I feel Grayson could slide into my favorites list

Its cool to see Ewing mentioned. He had a great run but kind of gets lost in the shuffle with all the other greats. Demarcus Nelson is kind of like that as well.

[flyingdutchdevil]

1 - Bobby Hurley
2 - JJ Redick
3 - Wojo
4 - Jon Scheyer
5 - open but Grayson will soon be there and Luke Kennard has a chance too

So you really like guards? That's what all these players have in common, right? ;)

[PSurprise]

Its cool to see Ewing mentioned. He had a great run but kind of gets lost in the shuffle with all the other greats. Demarcus Nelson is kind of like that as well.

Well he picked up his second technical and got ejected...

[flyingdutchdevil]

He's all over the map:

ESPN: 6'5"
Chad Ford (on ESPN): 6'6"
NBAdraft.net: 6'4"
Draftexpress: 6'4.5" (with shoes)
GoDuke: 6'5"
DBR: 6'2" - 6'4"

I tend never to trust GoDuke with measurements, especially after they listed Demarcus Nelson at 6'4" (or 6'3". I forget which). With shoes, he was 6'1" tops.

I'm just kinda curious about that Grayson's "true" height is. It is, after all, the off-season.

[BoiseDevil]

He's all over the map:

ESPN: 6'5"
Chad Ford (on ESPN): 6'6"
NBAdraft.net: 6'4"
Draftexpress: 6'4.5" (with shoes)
GoDuke: 6'5"
DBR: 6'2" - 6'4"

I tend never to trust GoDuke with measurements, especially after they listed Demarcus Nelson at 6'4" (or 6'3". I forget which). With shoes, he was 6'1" tops.

I'm just kinda curious about that Grayson's "true" height is. It is, after all, the off-season.[/QUOTE]

[CDu]

He's all over the map:

ESPN: 6'5"
Chad Ford (on ESPN): 6'6"
NBAdraft.net: 6'4"
Draftexpress: 6'4.5" (with shoes)
GoDuke: 6'5"
DBR: 6'2" - 6'4"

I tend never to trust GoDuke with measurements, especially after they listed Demarcus Nelson at 6'4" (or 6'3". I forget which). With shoes, he was 6'1" tops.

I'm just kinda curious about that Grayson's "true" height is. It is, after all, the off-season.[/QUOTE]

6'3" to 6'4" sounds about right. 6'4.5" with shoes sounds reasonable too. 6'6" sounds way off, which might explains why Ford has him in the top-20 of next year's draft. A 6'6" SG with great athleticism would make sense to go that high. A 6'3"-6'4" SG would have to prove a LOT to go that high.

[flyingdutchdevil]

6'3" to 6'4" sounds about right. 6'4.5" with shoes sounds reasonable too. 6'6" sounds way off, which might explains why Ford has him in the top-20 of next year's draft. A 6'6" SG with great athleticism would make sense to go that high. A 6'3"-6'4" SG would have to prove a LOT to go that high.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. I tend to agree.

The difficulty with gauging height - especially on TV - is posture. Some guys - like Quinn - have great posture all the time, so they look quite tall when they stand next to guys who may slouch (Okafor, Matt Jones come to mind last year). There isn't anything wrong with slouching, of course, but it just makes players look shorter when you compare them to other players.

[Steven43]

6'3" to 6'4" sounds about right. 6'4.5" with shoes sounds reasonable too. 6'6" sounds way off, which might explains why Ford has him in the top-20 of next year's draft. A 6'6" SG with great athleticism would make sense to go that high. A 6'3"-6'4" SG would have to prove a LOT to go that high.[/QUOTE]

Why does 2" of extra height make such a difference? I don't play or coach in today's NBA, so perhaps I would need to ask somebody in that position. I could see where 5"-6" could make an appreciable difference, but 2"? Why is that so dramatic? What if the guy who is 2" shorter can jump 8" higher than the taller player? How much does jumping ability matter as compared to height?

[CDu]

Why does 2" of extra height make such a difference? I don't play or coach in today's NBA, so perhaps I would need to ask somebody in that position. I could see where 5"-6" could make an appreciable difference, but 2"? Why is that so dramatic? What if the guy who is 2" shorter can jump 8" higher than the taller player? How much does jumping ability matter as compared to height?

Guys get drafted based on measurables. Two inches means a lot to the guys making the draft picks, especially if - along with a lack of height - the player doesn't have offsetting really long arms.

Teams want a guy who isn't going to be a case of being swallowed up by bigger players. A 6'3"-6'4" SG is average (or even above average) size for a SG in college; it is below average for a SG in the NBA. That can make a difference in what you would expect from the player at the next level.

Does 2" really make a big difference in a player's chances of success? I don't know. But I think the GMs think so, and that's all that really matters when talking about the draft.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Guys get drafted based on measurables. Two inches means a lot to the guys making the draft picks, especially if - along with a lack of height - the player doesn't have offsetting really long arms.

Teams want a guy who isn't going to be a case of being swallowed up by bigger players. A 6'3"-6'4" SG is average (or even above average) size for a SG in college; it is below average for a SG in the NBA. That can make a difference in what you would expect from the player at the next level.

Does 2" really make a big difference in a player's chances of success? I don't know. But I think the GMs think so, and that's all that really matters when talking about the draft.

Sadly, this is true. That two inches (in some cases 1 inch) makes all the difference. Players can make up for lack of height with wingspan (D. Wade is a pretty small 6'4.5" with shoes but has an insane 6'10.75" wingspan). Grayson's wingspan isn't bad at 6'6.5", but his body isn't like D. Wade.

I get the measurements theory, but if Grayson can show that he's an above average 3pt shooter, free throw shooter, and driver, he's golden.

[Jarhead]

6'3" to 6'4" sounds about right. 6'4.5" with shoes sounds reasonable too. 6'6" sounds way off, which might explains why Ford has him in the top-20 of next year's draft. A 6'6" SG with great athleticism would make sense to go that high. A 6'3"-6'4" SG would have to prove a LOT to go that high.

Why does 2" of extra height make such a difference? I don't play or coach in today's NBA, so perhaps I would need to ask somebody in that position. I could see where 5"-6" could make an appreciable difference, but 2"? Why is that so dramatic? What if the guy who is 2" shorter can jump 8" higher than the taller player? How much does jumping ability matter as compared to height?[/QUOTE]

That's what I was thinking. Grayson can jump out of the gym almost, and he can out jump most guys that are a few inches taller than he is. His athleticism, enthusiasm, and overall skill set put him in the upper tier of college players, and perhaps even Team USA but for a year or so too late.

[Olympic Fan]

He's all over the map:

ESPN: 6'5"
Chad Ford (on ESPN): 6'6"
NBAdraft.net: 6'4"
Draftexpress: 6'4.5" (with shoes)
GoDuke: 6'5"
DBR: 6'2" - 6'4"

I tend never to trust GoDuke with measurements, especially after they listed Demarcus Nelson at 6'4" (or 6'3". I forget which). With shoes, he was 6'1" tops.

I'm just kinda curious about that Grayson's "true" height is. It is, after all, the off-season.

Well, the only "official" measurement I found was that in the summer of 2013, Allen measured at 6-4.5 in shoes at both the LeBron James Camp and the Kevin Durant Camp:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Grayson-Allen-71570/

It's not outrageous to think that he's grown a half an inch in the last two years to the 6-5 measure that Duke now lists him. BTW, height in shoes is the basis for official NBA measurements.

I don't see why Duke would fudge heights as so many of you think ... it's not like the NBA is going to be fooled. They do their own measurements.

BTW: Duke did list DeMarcus Nelson as 6-4 ... when he showed up at the NBA, he measured at ... 6-4:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nelsode01.html

His most recent team in Yugoslavia listed him at the metric equivalent of 6-4.

Of course, I know that's not going to convince any of you who believe that your "eyeball" measurements are the only measurements that matter.

[devildeac]

Well, the only "official" measurement I found was that in the summer of 2013, Allen measured at 6-4.5 in shoes at both the LeBron James Camp and the Kevin Durant Camp:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Grayson-Allen-71570/

It's not outrageous to think that he's grown a half an inch in the last two years to the 6-5 measure that Duke now lists him. BTW, height in shoes is the basis for official NBA measurements.

I don't see why Duke would fudge heights as so many of you think ... it's not like the NBA is going to be fooled. They do their own measurements.

BTW: Duke did list DeMarcus Nelson as 6-4 ... when he showed up at the NBA, he measured at ... 6-4:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nelsode01.html

His most recent team in Yugoslavia listed him at the metric equivalent of 6-4.

Of course, I know that's not going to convince any of you who believe that your "eyeball" measurements are the only measurements that matter.

But, but, but, how many of these:

5406

;)

[CDu]

BTW, height in shoes is the basis for official NBA measurements.

This is not true. The NBA measures these guys both with and without socks. Teams and websites can present whatever they want on their webpages and info graphics (none of which are official), but the official NBA draft measurements (which are the last time these guys are ever officially measured) include both.


BTW: Duke did list DeMarcus Nelson as 6-4 ... when he showed up at the NBA, he measured at ... 6-4

This is also not true. You are perhaps falling prey to the assumption that measurements listed on basketball reference are official measurements. They are not. At the NBA draft camp, Nelson measured at 6'1" without shoes and 6'2.25" with shoes:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/DeMarcus-Nelson-58/

Nelson's lack of height is a big reason why he was forced to try to learn PG at the NBA level. At 6'4" with his great wingspan and solid vertical, he might have had a chance as a SG. But at well under 6'3", he just didn't stand a chance of making it as a SG in the NBA.

As for the fudging of heights by college teams, you are correct that the NBA isn't going to be fooled. But teams aren't fudging the heights to fool the NBA. And make no mistake, college teams definitely have a long history of fudging heights.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Well, the only "official" measurement I found was that in the summer of 2013, Allen measured at 6-4.5 in shoes at both the LeBron James Camp and the Kevin Durant Camp:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Grayson-Allen-71570/

It's not outrageous to think that he's grown a half an inch in the last two years to the 6-5 measure that Duke now lists him. BTW, height in shoes is the basis for official NBA measurements.

I don't see why Duke would fudge heights as so many of you think ... it's not like the NBA is going to be fooled. They do their own measurements.

BTW: Duke did list DeMarcus Nelson as 6-4 ... when he showed up at the NBA, he measured at ... 6-4:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nelsode01.html

His most recent team in Yugoslavia listed him at the metric equivalent of 6-4.

Of course, I know that's not going to convince any of you who believe that your "eyeball" measurements are the only measurements that matter.

Not sure where you got the official 6'4" listing. I found these:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/measurements.php?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=0&sort=12
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-9572.html (I had to attach this. Pretty funny)
http://www.nbadraft.net/2008_nbapredraftcamp_measurements.html

Nelson, without shoes, is 6'1" and, with shoes, 6'2.5". I think these are very accurate as, when I was standing outside Grace's waiting for the C2 bus with Demarcus, I couldn't believe Demarcus's height. I'm a solid 6'3" and I felt that I was towering over him. Could have been the shoes, but I don't think shoes can do that.

[flyingdutchdevil]

CDu beat me to it.

[CDu]

That's what I was thinking. Grayson can jump out of the gym almost, and he can out jump most guys that are a few inches taller than he is. His athleticism, enthusiasm, and overall skill set put him in the upper tier of college players, and perhaps even Team USA but for a year or so too late.

Just to be clear, Allen can certainly outjump most guys his height or even a few inches taller. But Allen wouldn't be competing with most guys for an NBA lottery pick. He'd be competing with the absolute elite of the elite.

That's the challenge: there are going to be guards who are taller than him who are also ridiculously athletic. He's basically going to be competing for maybe 3-4 draft spots to be drafted top-20 as a SG. And there are almost certainly going to be at least 3-4 candidates who are taller/longer and who have similar athleticism available throughout all of major college basketball. So if he's going to be drafted in the top-20, he is going to have to REALLY differentiate himself in some way, because it is unlikely that he is going to stand out physically. Whereas if he were 6'6", he might stand out a lot more without having shown much of his game.

Maybe he can do that this year or in the coming years. We'll see. But I do think that the discrepancy between where Ford projects Allen (top-20 next year) and where other sites project Allen (not ranked) may be a function of that height discrepancy.

[Kedsy]

Why does 2" of extra height make such a difference? I don't play or coach in today's NBA, so perhaps I would need to ask somebody in that position. I could see where 5"-6" could make an appreciable difference, but 2"? Why is that so dramatic? What if the guy who is 2" shorter can jump 8" higher than the taller player? How much does jumping ability matter as compared to height?

I don't play or coach in the NBA, either, and jumping ability obviously has advantages in certain situations. But a guy 2" taller than Grayson (with the additional length/reach associated with those two extra inches) can more easily defend Grayson's outside shot, perhaps even without jumping himself. If Grayson has trouble shooting over taller players (and I'm not saying he does -- I don't think we have much evidence either way), then it doesn't really matter how high he can jump. On the other side, Grayson could probably have some trouble bothering the shot of a taller player. There, perhaps his jumping ability might help, but if he has to jump high to stop a shot, he leaves himself open to a drive-by.

I think NBA GMs are concerned about undersized players (i.e., short for their position) because of potential defensive issues guarding bigger players. But whatever the reason, no matter what college fans think, the NBA has for a long time been wary of drafting "tweeners" too high. And a 6'3" SG is a tweener. If Grayson is really 6'5", then this conversation becomes much less important.

[Olympic Fan]

At the NBA draft camp, Nelson measured at 6'1" without shoes and 6'2.25" with shoes:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/DeMarcus-Nelson-58/


Fair enough ... but if you are going to cite and believe the Nelson measurements from Draft Express, why do so many doubt the 6-4.5 measurements cited by Draft Express for Grayson Allen?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Fair enough ... but if you are going to cite and believe the Nelson measurements from Draft Express, why do so many doubt the 6-4.5 measurements cited by Draft Express for Grayson Allen?

The Demarcus measurements are from the NBA pre-draft workout where they measure everyone. It's probably the best baseline measurement out there for basketball players.

The Grayson measurement is from a Durant/Lebron camp and not an "official" measurement (like the GoDuke measurements).

[sagegrouse]

6
The difficulty with gauging height - especially on TV - is posture. Some guys - like Quinn - have great posture all the time, so they look quite tall when they stand next to guys who may slouch (Okafor, Matt Jones come to mind last year). There isn't anything wrong with slouching, of course, but it just makes players look shorter when you compare them to other players.

And also, great hair!

[FerryFor50]

Lost in the height debate is how strong Grayson looks this year. He's put on some muscle!

Hope that extra weight doesn't affect his leaping...

[CDu]

Fair enough ... but if you are going to cite and believe the Nelson measurements from Draft Express, why do so many doubt the 6-4.5 measurements cited by Draft Express for Grayson Allen?

Well, I can't speak for others, but I don't have much issue with the 6'4.5" measurement. As I said, 6'4.5" doesn't seem out of line with the eye test. It is maybe on the upper end of reasonable, but reasonable to me.

I agree though with the Dutchman: there is much more known rigor to the NBA measurements. These high school camps may also take great care in their measurements, but I wouldn't be as confident of that. The reason being because (1) they are not run by the NBA, so less money is involved, and (b) it probably isn't a primary focus of these camps. For those reasons, it wouldn't surprise me if those measurements aren't as accurate.

Again, that is not to say those measurements aren't accurate. Just that I wouldn't put as much faith in them as I would the draft combine measurements.

[Indoor66]

Well, I can't speak for others, but I don't have much issue with the 6'4.5" measurement. As I said, 6'4.5" doesn't seem out of line with the eye test. It is maybe on the upper end of reasonable, but reasonable to me.

I agree though with the Dutchman: there is much more known rigor to the NBA measurements. These high school camps may also take great care in their measurements, but I wouldn't be as confident of that. The reason being because (1) they are not run by the NBA, so less money is involved, and (b) it probably isn't a primary focus of these camps. For those reasons, it wouldn't surprise me if those measurements aren't as accurate.

Again, that is not to say those measurements aren't accurate. Just that I wouldn't put as much faith in them as I would the draft combine measurements.

How much skill is required to read off a height measure? One stands up straight under the cross piece and someone looks at the result. If the effort is not to deceive, it appears quite straight forward to me.

[flyingdutchdevil]

How much skill is required to read off a height measure? One stands up straight under the cross piece and someone looks at the result. If the effort is not to deceive, it appears quite straight forward to me.

The fact that there are up to 3 inches in difference between measurements for some players leads me to believe it is quite challenging, but I don't know how.

I really like the NBA combine measurements as they take the "without shoes" measurement. Certain shoes can give you a 2 inch lift while others only an inch. And players change shoes all the time (I mean, this is basketball after all).

Any who, fortunately, 6'3" SGs succeed in college all the time (and some in college). If this is the "shortest" that Grayson is, awesome. I'll take it. But I really think that, with shoes, he's a more legit 6'5" (Bradley Beal height).

[CDu]

How much skill is required to read off a height measure? One stands up straight under the cross piece and someone looks at the result. If the effort is not to deceive, it appears quite straight forward to me.

Depends on the tools used. We sometimes see substantial discrepancies between different measurements listed, which suggests that not everyone is measuring with the same accuracy. We don't know anything about the process at these camps and how they actually measure (and logically speaking, how much time do you think they waste on measuring guys carefully at a skills camp intended to teach basketball?), whereas we know how seriously the NBA draft combine takes it.

And again, that is not to say the camp measurements aren't accurate. Just that I would put more faith in the NBA draft combine measurements than any of the others out there.

On a tangent, I just noticed a typo I made above: I said with and without socks, but I obviously meant with and with shoes. The NBA official measurements are made with and without shoes. Socks are I think optional in both cases. :)

[flyingdutchdevil]

Depends on the tools used. We sometimes see substantial discrepancies between different measurements listed, which suggests that not everyone is measuring with the same accuracy. We don't know anything about the process at these camps and how they actually measure (and logically speaking, how much time do you think they waste on measuring guys carefully at a skills camp intended to teach basketball?), whereas we know how seriously the NBA draft combine takes it.

And again, that is not to say the camp measurements aren't accurate. Just that I would put more faith in the NBA draft combine measurements than any of the others out there.

On a tangent, I just noticed a typo I made above: I said with and without socks, but I obviously meant with and with shoes. The NBA official measurements are made with and without shoes. Socks are I think optional in both cases. :)

Socks probably give you 0.05 inches. Hence, socks should always be worn for basketball height measurements ;)

[OldPhiKap]

The five stages of DBR offseason:

1. "that was a great/disappointing year."
2. "I think the minutes next year will be distributed like this:"
3. "I don't know the answer to that question of a player's height/weight, but I am sure that we can calculate it using cinder blocks"
4. Football.
5. Preseason practice starts; renew argument over minutes.

[Indoor66]

Socks probably give you 0.05 inches. Hence, socks should always be worn for basketball height measurements ;)

I always stand on a bunch of cinder blocks for my measurements. I still can't reach 6'! :mad::p:cool:

[luburch]

The five stages of DBR offseason:

1. "that was a great/disappointing year."
2. "I think the minutes next year will be distributed like this:"
3. "I don't know the answer to that question of a player's height/weight, but I am sure that we can calculate it using cinder blocks"
4. Football.
5. Preseason practice starts; renew argument over minutes.

6. Sudden interest in the NBA Playoffs and free agency

[Tom B.]

Sadly, this is true. That two inches (in some cases 1 inch) makes all the difference. Players can make up for lack of height with wingspan (D. Wade is a pretty small 6'4.5" with shoes but has an insane 6'10.75" wingspan).

Another good example of this was Elton Brand. IIRC, he measured at 6'7.5" before the draft -- but he has a short neck, long arms, and huge hands, so he played more like a 6'10" guy.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Another good example of this was Elton Brand. IIRC, he measured at 6'7.5" before the draft -- but he has a short neck, long arms, and huge hands, so he played more like a 6'10" guy.

Is Jon Scheyer the anti-Elton? Jon is an impressive 6'6" with shoes, but has a wingspan of only 6'3.25".

[Henderson]

The five stages of DBR offseason:

1. "that was a great/disappointing year."
2. "I think the minutes next year will be distributed like this:"
3. "I don't know the answer to that question of a player's height/weight, but I am sure that we can calculate it using cinder blocks"
4. Football.
5. Preseason practice starts; renew argument over minutes.

Grayson obviously came up big last year and exceeded expectations. I would expect him to play 12 mpg minimum this coming year. For a guy who is 6'4" (9.3 cinder blocks), he brings it. I wonder if Cut would have an interest in him as a slot receiver. At least he's been practicing hard this summer. Maybe he's a 20 minute guy. Depends on what Ken Pom has to say.

And he hates Hitler. So there's that.

Oh, and I don't see him transferring.

[devildeac]

I always stand on a bunch of cinder blocks for my measurements. I still can't reach 6'! :mad::p:cool:

Mr. Baggins, I presume?

;)

[kAzE]

Is Jon Scheyer the anti-Elton? Jon is an impressive 6'6" with shoes, but has a wingspan of only 6'3.25".

5412

[Clay Feet POF]

After reading all this height stuff, I started to think of Okafor and hand size. Does the NBA draft measure hands and is there a min/max by position? After re watching some of Grayson’s drive against Wisconsin it seem his were very large. I’m curious as to how much of an impact it has in the draft.

[devildeac]

5412

Ademola Okulaja beats himself...

[kAzE]

All of Jon Scheyer's length genes went into his neck and face contortionist abilities: http://www.tarheeltimes.com/viewvid54.aspx

(Sorry for posting that website, but it is a pretty good montage)

[Furniture]

http://youtu.be/G5k8ul1HCKM

[Furniture]

Sorry for the gring Luke!

[mattman91]

Sorry for the gring Luke!

Glad to have Luke at Duke!

[Kedsy]

Sorry for the gring Luke!

Weren't all the "grings" in one thread at one time? The last three have had their own threads but, personally, I liked one big thread better.

[gurufrisbee]

Wonder how many takes it took to get that last shot. Nice.

[CDu]

Wonder how many takes it took to get that last shot. Nice.

I am guessing no more than 3 takes, and more likely 1 or 2 takes. Good shooters usually hit 50+% of their shootaround-type 3s.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

All of Jon Scheyer's length genes went into his neck and face contortionist abilities: http://www.tarheeltimes.com/viewvid54.aspx

(Sorry for posting that website, but it is a pretty good montage)

He looks like a national champion to me.

[Furniture]

Weren't all the "grings" in one thread at one time? The last three have had their own threads but, personally, I liked one big thread better.

Yes I started the original summer grings thread and got Brandon, Marshall and the Jetter in it then certain people didn't follow my rules and started news threads for Derrick and Grayson so I then broke my own rules and did a separate gring for Luke. I'll try to do better next year....

[roywhite]

Whatever works, brother. Great videos, and thanks for posting the links.

We're all going to have to work on spelling Derryck. I'm putting my personal "spelling screw-up" over-under at 10 for the season. I think the key to spelling his name correctly is pretending he's Welsh or Flemish.

Heck, there's problem enough with his last name. Just ask Tyler Thorton; he was mentioned here frequently.

[duke blue brewcrew]

Yes I started the original summer grings thread and got Brandon, Marshall and the Jetter in it then certain people didn't follow my rules and started news threads for Derrick and Grayson so I then broke my own rules and did a separate gring for Luke. I'll try to do better next year....

I'm a rule breaker apparently, my apologies :) Once I saw separate threads come out for some players, I did one for Grayson. I'm excited to see Luke play. I think he has the chance to be in that JJ mold, as does Grayson...that awesome weapon wearing a Duke uniform that is feverishly hated by the opposing fans. The fact that he shunned his (practically) hometown K-Y Wildcats in favor of the Blue Devils makes me love this kid even more! Go Duke!

[sagegrouse]

Sorry for the gring Luke!

If he had gone to Cancun for the filming, would this be "Summer Gringo, Luke Kennard?"

[Dev11]

Merged all these threads about the summer grind videos. Enjoy

[duke blue brewcrew]

Merged all these threads about the summer grind videos. Enjoy

I know a few posters were wondering why the separate threads for each of the Summer Grinds this year. I get consolidation and having all like things in one spot is easy. However, I enjoyed each player have their own thread. It's easy to seperate what's being discussed and about whom that way. Once they are all thrown in together, things get messy and undistinguished. Plus, unless you stalk the thread daily, it's tough to tell when a new one has been added. Just my two cents.

[Kedsy]

I know a few posters were wondering why the separate threads for each of the Summer Grinds this year. I get consolidation and having all like things in one spot is easy. However, I enjoyed each player have their own thread. It's easy to seperate what's being discussed and about whom that way. Once they are all thrown in together, things get messy and undistinguished. Plus, unless you stalk the thread daily, it's tough to tell when a new one has been added. Just my two cents.

On the other hand, it's easier to go back and watch the earlier grind threads again if they're all in one spot.

[duke blue brewcrew]

On the other hand, it's easier to go back and watch the earlier grind threads again if they're all in one spot.

Sure, I see that part. That said, they aren't that hard to find individually. It's just cleaner when all of them have their own thread in my opinion. That said, my opinion plus $3 will get you a cup of coffee most places in this country.

[Dev11]

Sure, I see that part. That said, they aren't that hard to find individually. It's just cleaner when all of them have their own thread in my opinion. That said, my opinion plus $3 will get you a cup of coffee most places in this country.

Given the similar nature of each video, I think it allows us to keep more big topics on the main page, and I know some other posters had asked for it. The thread is also short enough that you can catch up pretty quickly. This isn't the UNC scandal thread, which I'm regularly behind on. Did you guys hear that UNC is pushing back the response to the NCAA???

[RepoMan]

A little different, but great interview here: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=13477718. What an impressive young man and representative of Duke University.

[gep]

What a well-spoken young man. Very articulate... very few "ahh", "ummm", "obviously", "you know..." etc. He is going to be very successful in his life. Quiet confidence. One of my favorite guys... :cool:

[duke blue brewcrew]

A little different, but great interview here: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=13477718. What an impressive young man and representative of Duke University.

I agree, that kid is a shining example of what you would like to see in a college athlete. The world would be a better place if there were more Marshalls out there. I love that he's not giving up on basketball and has found a way to do both, I think that's awesome!

[kAzE]

I may be in the minority here, but I think MP3 will make a NBA roster next year. I think he will absolutely get drafted, just based on his size, athleticism, and strength of character. Having 2 brothers in the league who are both valuable big men doesn't hurt your draft stock, either. Who knows, if he has a break out year this year (which is totally within the realm of possibility, as there aren't any 1-and-done type big men on our roster this year, and I believe Miles was a late bloomer in his college career as well), he could even go in the first round. 7 footers with this type of leaping ability do not come around very often.

[Kedsy]

...he could even go in the first round.

Whoa, fella. Slow down.

[kAzE]

Whoa, fella. Slow down.

Not saying, I'd do it if I were a NBA GM, but hey . . . I wasn't the one who drafted MP1 #26 overall . . . .

Miles averaged 6.6 points and 7.1 boards his senior year. I think if MP3 has a good year, he can do that, and maybe some team will reach for him in the first round. That's all I was saying. 80% chance he goes middle of the 2nd round, realistically.

He DOES possess really intriguing mobility for a 7 footer though. You just get the sense that he STILL hasn't fully matured physically to the point where he's totally in control of his body. He's a NBA player, just because of his size and athleticism. There's no denying that.

[Skitzle]

Not saying, I'd do it if I were a NBA GM, but hey . . . I wasn't the one who drafted MP1 #26 overall . . . .

Miles averaged 6.6 points and 7.1 boards his senior year. I think if MP3 has a good year, he can do that, and maybe some team will reach for him in the first round. That's all I was saying. 80% chance he goes middle of the 2nd round, realistically.

He DOES possess really intriguing mobility for a 7 footer though. You just get the sense that he STILL hasn't fully matured physically to the point where he's totally in control of his body. He's a NBA player, just because of his size and athleticism. There's no denying that.

He's not the leaper his brothers are, his running motion is not as fluid as theirs*. He's not where they were offensively yet. It's a big jump from his Jr year to the NBA. Not impossible but his physical and basketball tool set isn't where it needs to be yet. His brothers were much more polished by their Jr years.

*like he's is running in combat boots...

[kAzE]

He's not the leaper his brothers are, his running motion is not as fluid as theirs*. He's not where they were offensively yet. It's a big jump from his Jr year to the NBA. Not impossible but his physical and basketball tool set isn't where it needs to be yet. His brothers were much more polished by their Jr years.

*like he's is running in combat boots...

Not 100% certain on this, but I believe Marshall actually is the best leaper of the 3. He's just not as skilled as either of them, or as strong. The strength problem can clearly be remedied, and if he gets to MP1 levels of swoll (he might get close, but I don't see it), he will be a beast on the boards this year. But the skill problem will always be his weakness. I'm not really sure how you can criticize his running motion, he gets down the court pretty fast for 7-footer, which has always been a strength of the Plumlee brood.

Look, all I'm saying is, any 7-footer with a heartbeat gets NBA draft love. I said he MIGHT get drafted in the 1st round, hinging on a fantastic senior year. More than likely, he is a mid 2nd round draft pick. But I'm almost positive he will make a roster somewhere because of his immense athleticism for a 7-footer.

[CDu]

Not 100% certain on this, but I believe Marshall actually is the best leaper of the 3. He's just not as skilled as either of them, or as strong. The strength problem can clearly be remedied, and if he gets to MP1 levels of swoll (he might get close, but I don't see it), he will be a beast on the boards this year. But the skill problem will always be his weakness. I'm not really sure how you can criticize his running motion, he gets down the court pretty fast for 7-footer, which has always been a strength of the Plumlee brood.

Look, all I'm saying is, any 7-footer with a heartbeat gets NBA draft love. I said he MIGHT get drafted in the 1st round, hinging on a fantastic senior year. More than likely, he is a mid 2nd round draft pick. But I'm almost positive he will make a roster somewhere because of his immense athleticism for a 7-footer.

I'm quite sure that Miles is the best leaper of the three. He was a state high jump medalist back in high school. I would guess that Marshall is the least athletic of the three. And as you mentioned, he's the least skilled. And I think it's unlikely he gets drafted barring a decent breakout season this year.

Remember that both older Plumlees were frequently starters throughout their careers. Though Miles wasn't ever a full-time starter, he regularly averaged 16-20 mpg. And he got drafted because he put together one of the most amazing draft combines ever - historically great leaping ability for a big man, and terrific overall athleticism (speed, agility, etc). Marshall has not, in his four years at Duke, ever averaged even 10 mpg, and his numbers across the board pale in comparison to his brothers' numbers. So he'll have to have a breakout season or a similarly phenomenal draft combine to get a whiff of the draft.

[luvdahops]

I'm quite sure that Miles is the best leaper of the three. He was a state high jump medalist back in high school. I would guess that Marshall is the least athletic of the three. And as you mentioned, he's the least skilled. And I think it's unlikely he gets drafted barring a decent breakout season this year.

Remember that both older Plumlees were frequently starters throughout their careers. Though Miles wasn't ever a full-time starter, he regularly averaged 16-20 mpg. And he got drafted because he put together one of the most amazing draft combines ever - historically great leaping ability for a big man, and terrific overall athleticism (speed, agility, etc). Marshall has not, in his four years at Duke, ever averaged even 10 mpg, and his numbers across the board pale in comparison to his brothers' numbers. So he'll have to have a breakout season or a similarly phenomenal draft combine to get a whiff of the draft.

Agree with all of this. Miles still has the highest recorded Max Vertical Reach at the NBA Draft Combine at 12'2" (40.5 inch two-step vertical + standing reach of 8'9.5"). As you note, the 40.5 inch vertical is the best ever recorded for a player taller than 6'9" (w/shoes), and tied (with CJ Leslie) for best ever for a player taller than 6'7".

[CDu]

Agree with all of this. Miles still has the highest recorded Max Vertical Reach at the NBA Draft Combine at 12'2" (40.5 inch two-step vertical + standing reach of 8'9.5"). As you note, the 40.5 inch vertical is the best ever recorded for a player taller than 6'9" (w/shoes), and tied (with CJ Leslie) for best ever for a player taller than 6'7".

Yeah, I don't think it can be overstated just how impressive Miles' combine numbers were. There is no question in my mind that Miles is the best pure athlete of the three (I think the athleticism level drops from Miles to Mason to Marshall). I'll go so far as to say he's one of the best pure athletes that has ever attended the draft combine. He was such a freak that at least one GM was willing to overlook his rather raw game and give him a guaranteed contract.

Compared to Miles, Marshall is not only less skilled, but also less athletic. And if the measurements at the NBA Top-100 Camp from 2010 are to be believed, Marshall's standing reach is only as high as Miles' (despite being at least 1 inch taller) thanks to T-Rex syndrome. So for Marshall to sniff a first round pick, he will probably need either a breakout senior year or a monster combine similar to his oldest brother's. I love Marshall, but I think both are fairly unlikely.

I think Marshall is unlikely to be drafted by anyone. It's true that 7-footers stand a MUCH better chance of getting drafted than anyone else. But it's far from a guarantee. Here is a list of draft candidates sorted by standing reach (for reference, Marshall's standing reach was measured at 8'9.5" in 2010):
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=&pos=&source=All&sort=6

Here's the same list sorted by height without shoes (Marshall was 6'11.5" without shoes in 2010):
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=&pos=&source=All&sort=2

In looking at both lists, you'll see plenty of guys of similar or better size/length (many with better college resumes than Marshall) who went undrafted. And that's just among guys who were invited to some NBA camp (it remains to be seen if Marshall would even be invited to the combine next summer).

I won't say it's impossible for Marshall to get himself drafted. But I'd say it is very unlikely. I'd love for him to prove me wrong though. But until he shows otherwise, he has shown us very little to suggest that his brothers' history is a meaningful point of reference for his draft stock.

[kAzE]

Yeah, I don't think it can be overstated just how impressive Miles' combine numbers were. There is no question in my mind that Miles is the best pure athlete of the three (I think the athleticism level drops from Miles to Mason to Marshall). I'll go so far as to say he's one of the best pure athletes that has ever attended the draft combine. He was such a freak that at least one GM was willing to overlook his rather raw game and give him a guaranteed contract.

Compared to Miles, Marshall is not only less skilled, but also less athletic. And if the measurements at the NBA Top-100 Camp from 2010 are to be believed, Marshall's standing reach is only as high as Miles' (despite being at least 1 inch taller) thanks to T-Rex syndrome. So for Marshall to sniff a first round pick, he will probably need either a breakout senior year or a monster combine similar to his oldest brother's. I love Marshall, but I think both are fairly unlikely.

I think Marshall is unlikely to be drafted by anyone. It's true that 7-footers stand a MUCH better chance of getting drafted than anyone else. But it's far from a guarantee. Here is a list of draft candidates sorted by standing reach (for reference, Marshall's standing reach was measured at 8'9.5" in 2010):
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=&pos=&source=All&sort=6

Here's the same list sorted by height without shoes (Marshall was 6'11.5" without shoes in 2010):
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=&pos=&source=All&sort=2

In looking at both lists, you'll see plenty of guys of similar or better size/length (many with better college resumes than Marshall) who went undrafted. And that's just among guys who were invited to some NBA camp (it remains to be seen if Marshall would even be invited to the combine next summer).

I won't say it's impossible for Marshall to get himself drafted. But I'd say it is very unlikely. I'd love for him to prove me wrong though. But until he shows otherwise, he has shown us very little to suggest that his brothers' history is a meaningful point of reference for his draft stock.

Ok, that's way more research than I had time to do today. Good job - you make excellent points. I will say this in Marshall's defense: He played behind far superior big man talent during his junior year (the traditional Plumlee breakout year) than either of his brothers. I honestly felt that he played very well during his limited time on the court last season, MUCH better than he played as a sophomore, and enough to convince me that he's got NBA potential. If we had failed to land Okafor, Marshall would very likely have played 18+ minutes last year. But as you say, his draft stock will be heavily influenced by how he performs in his final year at Duke. I believe Coach K will play him ahead of Sean Obi and Chase Jeter to start the season, and depending on how he performs, that playing time could be what gives him the edge to prove he belongs in the league.

[1 24 90]

Were you serious about this list?


hmmm interesting ... haha


i thought so as well


So you really like guards? That's what all these players have in common, right? ;)

So I get back from vacation, followed by my grandmother's funeral, and I read these (not so) subtle accusations of racism on my part. Nice. I guess the good thing is I now have absolutely no inclination or desire to ever express my opinion or share information on this forum ever again.

[Skitzle]

Ok, that's way more research than I had time to do today. Good job - you make excellent points. I will say this in Marshall's defense: He played behind far superior big man talent during his junior year (the traditional Plumlee breakout year) than either of his brothers. I honestly felt that he played very well during his limited time on the court last season, MUCH better than he played as a sophomore, and enough to convince me that he's got NBA potential. If we had failed to land Okafor, Marshall would very likely have played 18+ minutes last year. But as you say, his draft stock will be heavily influenced by how he performs in his final year at Duke. I believe Coach K will play him ahead of Sean Obi and Chase Jeter to start the season, and depending on how he performs, that playing time could be what gives him the edge to prove he belongs in the league.

Marshall was always talked about as the least athletic of the three. They said he was more of a "traditional center" then the outside in type that Miles and Mason were.

Here's the thing 10-15 years ago and maybe Marshall gets the nod, but the NBA has changed (proven again by Towns over Jahlil) back-to-the-basket centers are becoming less valuable. So a raw, and not very athletic big man will have a Really Really hard time making the league. Miles and Mason are prototypical "new" NBA centers. Its why Miles was a first round pick.

[kAzE]

Marshall was always talked about as the least athletic of the three. They said he was more of a "traditional center" then the outside in type that Miles and Mason were.

Here's the thing 10-15 years ago and maybe Marshall gets the nod, but the NBA has changed (proven again by Towns over Jahlil) back-to-the-basket centers are becoming less valuable. So a raw, and not very athletic big man will have a Really Really hard time making the league. Miles and Mason are prototypical "new" NBA centers. Its why Miles was a first round pick.

I dunno, Marshall never stood out to me as being significantly less athletic than his brothers. Everyone who watched the McDonald's AA dunk contest that he participated in knows he should have won it. Even if he's not at the level of Mason and Miles, Mason is a guy who might be an All-Star at some point in his career, and Miles is a solid rotation big man in the league. Being slightly behind them in athleticism still puts him ahead of 90% of 7 footers in athleticism.

Just look at some of these dunks. These are not things that your typical 7-footer is capable of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esmmrjzavng

[luburch]

I dunno, Marshall never stood out to me as being significantly less athletic than his brothers. Everyone who watched the McDonald's AA dunk contest that he participated in knows he should have won it. Even if he's not at the level of Mason and Miles, Mason is a guy who might be an All-Star at some point in his career, and Miles is a solid rotation big man in the league. Being slightly behind them in athleticism still puts him ahead of 90% of 7 footers in athleticism.

Just look at some of these dunks. These are not things that your typical 7-footer is capable of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esmmrjzavng

Not to digress even more, but just look at how small Anthony Davis is at the end of the video. Hard to believe that was a little over 4 years ago.

[Skitzle]

I dunno, Marshall never stood out to me as being significantly less athletic than his brothers. Everyone who watched the McDonald's AA dunk contest that he participated in knows he should have won it. Even if he's not at the level of Mason and Miles, Mason is a guy who might be an All-Star at some point in his career, and Miles is a solid rotation big man in the league. Being slightly behind them in athleticism still puts him ahead of 90% of 7 footers in athleticism.

Just look at some of these dunks. These are not things that your typical 7-footer is capable of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esmmrjzavng

No he won't. Mason doesn't have the GM or coach confidence to be named the starter for a decimated Portland team. Demarcus Cousins missed the All-Star game last year... Think about that. These two guys aren't close to at the same level.


Mason Plumlee said he's "preparing to be a starter" for the Trail Blazers this season, but coach Terry Stotts didn't commit to the idea.
"He’s shown that he can be a starter in this league, but let’s wait until October, November," Stotts said. Blazers GM Neil Olshey was similarly noncommittal, saying, "He’s capable of being a starter, but he’s also capable of being a very high-end backup if in free agency we go another route and get another starter be it Robin [Lopez] or anybody else." Rotoworld June 30th Story (http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nba/2132/mason-plumlee)

I'm not trying to be hard on you, but you're over estimating all the Plumlees in this case. I used to think every Duke kid would SOAR in the NBA. Scheyer was TOTALLY an NBA player. Nolan Smith was going to be a super star. Demarcus Nelson was going to be fantastic. It's important to be realistic about all these guys chances. I started out a Duke fan in 2006, and became a

Miles Plumlee was an EXTREME case sneaking into the first round. He had an unreal half season as a starter for the suns two years ago I think. (He made my fantasy team!) but that's about his ceiling.

Mason will be a starter on a bad team or a backup on a good team. Don't expect him to be the All-Star center/focal point of an offense any time soon.

Marshall has a 99% chance to be in the Service next year.

At the end of the day, we can all believe what we want, as there is no hard evidence either way (obviously). Hoping for the best for all these guys (and all Duke guys), just try to keep your expectations in check.

[kAzE]

No he won't. Mason doesn't have the GM or coach confidence to be named the starter for a decimated Portland team. Demarcus Cousins missed the All-Star game last year... Think about that. These two guys aren't close to at the same level.

Aw . . . come on. If Chris Kaman can make the All-Star Team, Mason could totally do it. I think it's going to be much harder for him now that he's in the western conference, but with the rate that NBA stars get injured these days and so many All-Star replacements, I gotta believe Mason could have a career year at some point and sneak on to the roster. I never said he'd be a perennial All-Star, just make the team once. DeMarcus Cousins is going to be at LEAST a 3-time All-Star by the time he's finished. He's just gotta put his head on straight. Don't forget, Mason Plumlee was a member of the USA senior national team. They don't give those roster spots to nobodies.

Other questionable guys who made the All-Star team and their stats during their All-Star year:

Antonio Davis: 13.7 points, 10.1 rebounds, 1.4 assists, 0.3 steals, 1.9 blocks
Lionel Hollins: 15.9 points, 3.4 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 1.9 steals, 0.4 blocks
Steve Johnson: 15.4 points, 5.6 rebounds, 1.3 assists, 0.4 steals, 0.7 blocks
Theo Ratliff: 12.4 points, 8.3 rebounds, 1.2 assists, 0.6 steals, 3.7 blocks

Note: Some of those guys were below average in the league for PER.

[Furniture]

http://youtu.be/Ru_V8ZGHbYQ