Austin Nichols transfers to Virginia

[Billy Dat]

I have heard conflicting accounts of Memphis transfer Austin Nichols' interest in Duke as a destination for 2016-17, and the conflicts come from the same media outlet.

CBS' Jon Rothstein calls Duke the favorite
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25241052/memphis-transfer-austin-nichols-eyes-virginia-but-duke-likely-destination

CBS' Gary Parrish, on this podcast, says no
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25240509/podcast-best-of-july-recruiting-kansas-wins-world-title

FYI, the podcast includes a nice meaty opening segment on Duke's recruiting prowess.

Nichols seems like a stud, I can't say I know his game very well, but I wonder if those more plugged into recruiting have an opinion.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I have heard conflicting accounts of Memphis transfer Austin Nichols' interest in Duke as a destination for 2016-17, and the conflicts come from the same media outlet.

CBS' Jon Rothstein calls Duke the favorite
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25241052/memphis-transfer-austin-nichols-eyes-virginia-but-duke-likely-destination

CBS' Gary Parrish, on this podcast, says no
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25240509/podcast-best-of-july-recruiting-kansas-wins-world-title

FYI, the podcast includes a nice meaty opening segment on Duke's recruiting prowess.

Nichols seems like a stud, I can't say I know his game very well, but I wonder if those more plugged into recruiting have an opinion.

Assuming we get Harry Giles, Austin Nichols seems a little excessive, no? If Nichols plays the 4/5, he'll compete with Jeter, Obi, Giles, Tatum (you know he's gonna be the 4 at Duke) for a starting spot. Plus, he may compete with Vrank and Robinson.

Assuming we don't get Giles, there is still a lot of competition to overcome.

[kAzE]

I seem to recall that this guy was on our recruiting radar with a Duke offer in 2012, and I was mildly intrigued at the time, but now I'm VERY interested in getting this guy. He was 6-8, 200 as a high school senior, but is now listed at 6-9, 228.

He averaged 13.3 points, 6.1 boards, and an insane 3.4 blocks as a sophomore at Memphis last year. He had 2 games with 6 blocks, as well as a 7-block game and an 8-block game. He also shot about 50% from the field, with the ability to score down low or hit the mid range J. Elite rim protection and versatile offensive game? YES PLEASE.

Regardless of who we have on the roster, this guy is a proven scorer and defender with 2 years of D-1 college experience. With a big rotation of Jeter, Obi, and Nichols, we'd already have the makings of a very good interior rotation. If anything, he's a very capable backup plan in case we don't get Giles.

Tatum seems like he's a more natural fit at the 3.

[dukelifer]

Assuming we get Harry Giles, Austin Nichols seems a little excessive, no? If Nichols plays the 4/5, he'll compete with Jeter, Obi, Giles, Tatum (you know he's gonna be the 4 at Duke) for a starting spot. Plus, he may compete with Vrank and Robinson.

Assuming we don't get Giles, there is still a lot of competition to overcome.

I read that Notre Dame is a possible landing spot. He looks solid as a player- but as you say Duke is loading up.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I read that Notre Dame is a possible landing spot. He looks solid as a player- but as you say Duke is loading up.

Yeah. If he's not Duke, I'd love him to go to Marquette or Notre Dame.

Also, I think Kentucky showed this past year that there is such thing as 'too much talent'. It won't affect your performance that year, but it hurts in recruiting when 5-star players don't want to play 15 minutes a game or sit on the bench during crunch time.

[jimsumner]

I have heard conflicting accounts of Memphis transfer Austin Nichols' interest in Duke as a destination for 2016-17, and the conflicts come from the same media outlet.

CBS' Jon Rothstein calls Duke the favorite
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25241052/memphis-transfer-austin-nichols-eyes-virginia-but-duke-likely-destination

CBS' Gary Parrish, on this podcast, says no
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25240509/podcast-best-of-july-recruiting-kansas-wins-world-title

FYI, the podcast includes a nice meaty opening segment on Duke's recruiting prowess.

Nichols seems like a stud, I can't say I know his game very well, but I wonder if those more plugged into recruiting have an opinion.

Duke certainly recruited Nichols the first time around, back in the Duke-can't-develop-big-man days.

He picked Memphis in part because he wanted to stay close to home and, if the internet can be believed, because he had a girl friend going there.

But also part of the narrative was a desire to be THE MAN.

He's a good player, more offensively minded than someone like Amile Jefferson, and he's a rim protector. But I'm not sure he's good enough to be the man at Duke.

Nichols would have to sit out the 2015-16 season. If Duke signs Giles, then Nichols is going to have to play the 5 at Duke and likely would have to compete for PT with Jeter, Obi and Vrankovic and that's assuming Duke doesn't sign Bolden, and Duke is making a huge effort on Bolden.

Then again, there is a real chance that Duke could lose Giles and Jeter after the 2017 season and Nichols could get a lot of PT as a fifth-year senior in 2018. Then again, Duke may well have a freshman stud or two that season.

So, lots of moving parts. I do think Nichols could help Duke. But he would have to embrace the likelihood of a lesser role in exchange for a better chance of team success, along with a Duke degree. I suspect he's not going to be receptive. But it's just a hunch, not any inside info.

EDIT: wow, five responses in less than 10 minutes. Don't we have anything better to do?

[kAzE]

Am I the only one who is really impressed by the 3.4 blocks per game?? I mean, okay, granted it's against schools like Oral Roberts and Jacksonville State, but it shows he's got the length and athleticism to be a capable rim protector. Anyone who can do that (AND score) can play for my team any day.

[tbyers11]

I have heard conflicting accounts of Memphis transfer Austin Nichols' interest in Duke as a destination for 2016-17, and the conflicts come from the same media outlet.

CBS' Jon Rothstein calls Duke the favorite
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25241052/memphis-transfer-austin-nichols-eyes-virginia-but-duke-likely-destination

CBS' Gary Parrish, on this podcast, says no
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25240509/podcast-best-of-july-recruiting-kansas-wins-world-title

FYI, the podcast includes a nice meaty opening segment on Duke's recruiting prowess.

Nichols seems like a stud, I can't say I know his game very well, but I wonder if those more plugged into recruiting have an opinion.

I'd believe Gary Parrish on this one. He is based in Memphis and has connections to the Nichols family.

[conmanlhughes]

Would rather have Wendell Carter than Nichols. Nichols is a good player, great shot blocker, ehhh rebounder, and a decent scorer. Wendell Carter has the potential to be better.

[DarkstarWahoo]

If nothing else, Nichols' recruitment will be interesting. Memphis put UVA on the exclusion list because the teams could meet in a tournament next year, and now the family has lawyered up to get a full release.

That makes me think UVA is the leader, but I have no idea if he'll get the full release and how quickly it could come. It's not too long now before classes start.

[DarkstarWahoo]

And for what it's worth, y'all are absolutely loaded in the frontcourt year after next. Given the choice (read: full release), I can't imagine Nichols stepping into that situation when he can practice for a year and become eligible at UVA after Gill, Tobey and Nolte graduate. But my hoops career peaked on the JV team in high school, so I can't say I know what happens to the brain when a Duke offer comes in.

[BD80]

If nothing else, Nichols' recruitment will be interesting. Memphis put UVA on the exclusion list because the teams could meet in a tournament next year, and now the family has lawyered up to get a full release.

That makes me think UVA is the leader, but I have no idea if he'll get the full release and how quickly it could come. It's not too long now before classes start.

The unc basketball team read that post; half laughed, but the other half was highly confused.

The unc women's soccer team tried to read the post, but couldn't.

[Billy Dat]

If nothing else, Nichols' recruitment will be interesting. Memphis put UVA on the exclusion list because the teams could meet in a tournament next year, and now the family has lawyered up to get a full release.

That makes me think UVA is the leader, but I have no idea if he'll get the full release and how quickly it could come. It's not too long now before classes start.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/13255940/austin-nichols-hires-lawyer-seeks-release-memphis-tigers-attend-school

On the CBS podcast, Parrish mentioned that Nichols' relatives are the ones who donated the $ to build John Paul Jones arena and they say that's where he'd be if Memphis didn't suspect tampering. It sounds like a big mess, but it would be a nice get for TB and you fans.

[Duvall]

If nothing else, Nichols' recruitment will be interesting. Memphis put UVA on the exclusion list because the teams could meet in a tournament next year, and now the family has lawyered up to get a full release.

That makes me think UVA is the leader, but I have no idea if he'll get the full release and how quickly it could come. It's not too long now before classes start.

You have to think Nichols ends up at UVa - his preference seems clear, and it's hard to see Memphis fighting too hard to keep a player from transferring to a school outside their league and state. Still, schools sometimes do dumb things.

[BobBender]

And for what it's worth, y'all are absolutely loaded in the frontcourt year after next. Given the choice (read: full release), I can't imagine Nichols stepping into that situation when he can practice for a year and become eligible at UVA after Gill, Tobey and Nolte graduate. But my hoops career peaked on the JV team in high school, so I can't say I know what happens to the brain when a Duke offer comes in.

It does sound rather strange that the Nichols family would retain legal counsel if he wanted to come to Duke, since we are not on the exclusion list. Two of the excluded schools, Providence and Iowa, are just smokescreens. So it is logical that UVa or Tennessee are where he and his dad are eyeing as a preferred landing spot. And since UT is a mess right now, I doubt it's there, either.

[DarkstarWahoo]

If it does go to court - and I can't imagine it does - it's going to be a whole lot bigger than UVA, Memphis and Nichols. A court win for Nichols could completely blow up the transfer rules for college hoops.

I wonder if there have been some phone calls from Indianapolis to Memphis today.

[lotusland]

If nothing else, Nichols' recruitment will be interesting. Memphis put UVA on the exclusion list because the teams could meet in a tournament next year, and now the family has lawyered up to get a full release.

That makes me think UVA is the leader, but I have no idea if he'll get the full release and how quickly it could come. It's not too long now before classes start. I also think Parrish is the most trustworthy source so Duke and UK are unlikely landing spots. Parrish also indicated that the Memphis probably suspects UVA of tampering which is why they are on the banned list and the pre-season tournament is just an excuse to put them on the list (Likewise Providence and the other teams in that tournament were added only as cover for putting UVA on the lisl - no chance Nichols would pick Providence. Also all the podcast guys think Pastneur is on the hot seat now but his large buyout might keep him around another year or so.

[COYS]

I also think Parrish is the most trustworthy source so Duke and UK are unlikely landing spots. Parrish also indicated that the Memphis probably suspects UVA of tampering which is why they are on the banned list and the pre-season tournament is just an excuse to put them on the list (Likewise Providence and the other teams in that tournament were added only as cover for putting UVA on the lisl - no chance Nichols would pick Providence. Also all the podcast guys think Pastneur is on the hot seat now but his large buyout might keep him around another year or so.

Personally, I hate when a program prevents the transfer of a kid to any school. I wouldn't like it, but I would advocate for Duke letting Grayson Allen transfer to UNC if he really, really wanted to do such a thing (not too concerned about this, obviously).
If UVA tampered with Nichols, then it seems like there should be some recourse Memphis can pursue with UVA rather than punishing Nichols for wanting to transfer. If Nichols' father or perhaps even Austin himself did something that violated NCAA rules by talking to UVA or accepting gifts, then the NCAA should suspend him or mete out whatever the appropriate punishment should be. However, to just flat out deny a transfer seems vindictive for the sake of being vindictive.

[Wahoo2000]

If it does go to court - and I can't imagine it does - it's going to be a whole lot bigger than UVA, Memphis and Nichols. A court win for Nichols could completely blow up the transfer rules for college hoops.

I wonder if there have been some phone calls from Indianapolis to Memphis today.

The NCAA won't even need to get involved to get Memphis to remove the restrictions. From the Memphis insiders, the Jones family are longtime fans and donors of the Memphis program. If they want to get the kid released to UVa, it'll happen. The apparent impropriety of all this seems pretty bad, but these same "Memphis insiders" (take that for whatever it's worth) say that Nichols wanted to transfer, wanted UVa, and they're just friends of his family trying to help him get what he wants. None of the Joneses "recruited" Nichols to leave Memphis.

[Duvall]

The NCAA won't even need to get involved to get Memphis to remove the restrictions. From the Memphis insiders, the Jones family are longtime fans and donors of the Memphis program. If they want to get the kid released to UVa, it'll happen. The apparent impropriety of all this seems pretty bad, but these same "Memphis insiders" (take that for whatever it's worth) say that Nichols wanted to transfer, wanted UVa, and they're just friends of his family trying to help him get what he wants. None of the Joneses "recruited" Nichols to leave Memphis.

What's the cure for tampering? More tampering.

[rocketeli]

If he likes to block shots he shouldn't come to Duke. Coach K doesn't like the blocked shot as a play as it increases chances of fouling, pulls the defender out of position, sometimes doesn't work, and if you do block the shot you create a loose ball situation under the opponent's basket that you can't always control. Duke doesn't emphasize or teach blocking shots, which may be one of the reasons ignorant people think that Duke players can't block shots.

[kAzE]

If he likes to block shots he shouldn't come to Duke. Coach K doesn't like the blocked shot as a play as it increases chances of fouling, pulls the defender out of position, sometimes doesn't work, and if you do block the shot you create a loose ball situation under the opponent's basket that you can't always control. Duke doesn't emphasize or teach blocking shots, which may be one of the reasons ignorant people think that Duke players can't block shots.

Where are you getting this from? Do you have any supporting evidence or a quote from Coach K? Rim protection is one of the fundamental keys to winning basketball at any level. 7 footers make tens of millions in the NBA based on this one skill alone. I've never heard anyone say Duke players can't block shots . . . Duke players block plenty of shots. We have 2 of the top 10 shot blockers in ACC history: Shelden Williams is #2 with 422 career blocks and Shane Battier is #7 with 254. Duke basketball emphasizes creating offense with defense. Blocked shots often lead to run outs going the other way, and easy transition buckets.

Exhibit A: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2405602-dukes-justise-winslow-delivers-ridiculous-block-and-sets-up-quinn-cook-for-3

Pretty sure Justise didn't get chewed out for making that play. I think Coach K is just fine with going for blocks.

[Bluedog]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/13255940/austin-nichols-hires-lawyer-seeks-release-memphis-tigers-attend-school

On the CBS podcast, Parrish mentioned that Nichols' relatives are the ones who donated the $ to build John Paul Jones arena and they say that's where he'd be if Memphis didn't suspect tampering. It sounds like a big mess, but it would be a nice get for TB and you fans.


You have to think Nichols ends up at UVa - his preference seems clear, and it's hard to see Memphis fighting too hard to keep a player from transferring to a school outside their league and state. Still, schools sometimes do dumb things.

Memphis is saying UVa is on the restricted list because they are on their schedule in 2016-17...Same with Iowa, Providence and Tennessee. I've seen it quite often that a school restricts teams that are on their schedule. Coach K actually seems to be the most lax with transfers of any coach in the nation (which I personally like...you think many coaches would have let Gbinije go effectively to an ACC school? Not a chance. Most coaches were saying restrictions were in conference and any schools already announced to be in conference in the future.)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Personally, I hate when a program prevents the transfer of a kid to any school. I wouldn't like it, but I would advocate for Duke letting Grayson Allen transfer to UNC if he really, really wanted to do such a thing (not too concerned about this, obviously).
If UVA tampered with Nichols, then it seems like there should be some recourse Memphis can pursue with UVA rather than punishing Nichols for wanting to transfer. If Nichols' father or perhaps even Austin himself did something that violated NCAA rules by talking to UVA or accepting gifts, then the NCAA should suspend him or mete out whatever the appropriate punishment should be. However, to just flat out deny a transfer seems vindictive for the sake of being vindictive.

I agree about allowing players to transfer openly. I can understand reasoning for blocking in-conference transfers, but barring the tampering allegations it sure feels petty for a school to specify where a student athlete can and can't follow their career.

[Pghdukie]

Recruiting MOJO is in K's favor. I just can't see Nichols in a Duke uniform. Outside of the fact 2yrs ago Nichols said no to Duke, can he and his family accept the fact that there are others waiting to enroll at Duke that don't have attitudes.

[SilkyJ]

and that's assuming Duke doesn't sign Bolden, and Duke is making a huge effort on Bolden.

Good to hear. We need a tier 1 widebody in the 2016 class.

I saw that 247 lists us as "cooler," (http://247sports.com/Recruitment/Marques-Bolden-36767/RecruitInterests) so I wasn't sure if he was truly still in the mix...though we did just offer a few weeks ago so maybe I'm just impatient. Seems like its early days in his recruitment and he's not leaning anywhere just yet. (there are only 13 predictions on 247 and most were made 9-12 months ago). He did mention that he wants to visit (scout interview from a few weeks ago) so I'll continue to believe that's happening until otherwise stated :cool:

BTW: Scout, ESPN and 247 all list him as the #1 C in the class, but Scout has him #6 overall and ESPN/247 have him at 15/16. That's a decent size discrepancy. We'll see where the rankings settle after the summer is over.

[Wahoo2000]

Memphis is saying UVa is on the restricted list because they are on their schedule in 2016-17...Same with Iowa, Providence and Tennessee. I've seen it quite often that a school restricts teams that are on their schedule. Coach K actually seems to be the most lax with transfers of any coach in the nation (which I personally like...you think many coaches would have let Gbinije go effectively to an ACC school? Not a chance. Most coaches were saying restrictions were in conference and any schools already announced to be in conference in the future.)

And now Gary Parrish stating memphis has removed ALL restrictions on transfer. That was quick.

https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/621086800069697536

[Kedsy]

Also, I think Kentucky showed this past year that there is such thing as 'too much talent'. It won't affect your performance that year, but it hurts in recruiting when 5-star players don't want to play 15 minutes a game or sit on the bench during crunch time.

I'm not sure I see the downside. Kentucky was undefeated until the Final Four. And Cal did get three five-star prospects to enroll for this coming season.


If he likes to block shots he shouldn't come to Duke. Coach K doesn't like the blocked shot...

Tell that to the Landlord.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'm not sure I see the downside. Kentucky was undefeated until the Final Four. And Cal did get three five-star prospects to enroll for this coming season.

If you read my post closely, you'll see that I said there is no downside during that year. But having too much talent on the bench can clearly hurt you with recruiting. Calipari said that himself about his platoon system. It leads to players questioning playing time.

Also, 3 5 star recruits is great, but Murray was an eleventh hour pick-up and this class is nowhere near a "Kentucky" class.

[rocketeli]

Where are you getting this from? Do you have any supporting evidence or a quote from Coach K? Rim protection is one of the fundamental keys to winning basketball at any level. 7 footers make tens of millions in the NBA based on this one skill alone. I've never heard anyone say Duke players can't block shots . . . Duke players block plenty of shots. We have 2 of the top 10 shot blockers in ACC history: Shelden Williams is #2 with 422 career blocks and Shane Battier is #7 with 254. Duke basketball emphasizes creating offense with defense. Blocked shots often lead to run outs going the other way, and easy transition buckets.

Exhibit A: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2405602-dukes-justise-winslow-delivers-ridiculous-block-and-sets-up-quinn-cook-for-3

Pretty sure Justise didn't get chewed out for making that play. I think Coach K is just fine with going for blocks.

Coach K told me personally, when he was at my house the other day for our weekly My Little Pony marathon. Few people know this, but Coach K is really into the bronie lifestyle. He is truly a renaissance man.

Seriously, my opinion is based on 40+ years of coaching, watching, playing and referreeing basketball and 30+ years of watching K coached teams. We all see what we think we should see of course.

[moonpie23]

too bad the announcer soiled himself at the end saying "with all due respect to shane battier".......and then disrespecting shane.

[NashvilleDevil]

too bad the announcer soiled himself at the end saying "with all due respect to shane battier".......and then disrespecting shane.

Grant was trying to hard

[CameronBornAndBred]

5292

Airowe says no.
http://duke.247sports.com/Bolt/Sources-Duke-not-pursuing-Memphis-transfer-Austin-Nichols-38218597

[BD80]

This is another example of Duke's prestige, mentioned in the mix with every big recruit. I like it

I also like that our coaches can easily explain the whole thing to Bolden and Carter. Illustrating that EVERYBODY wants what they currently have, an offer to play for Coach K at Duke.

[Kedsy]

5292

Airowe says no.
http://duke.247sports.com/Bolt/Sources-Duke-not-pursuing-Memphis-transfer-Austin-Nichols-38218597

I notice in Airowe's blurb that Antonio Vrankovic is described as a "redshirt freshman" in 2016-17. I didn't know that was definitely going to happen, but I think it's probably best for everyone.

[flyingdutchdevil]

This is another example of Duke's prestige, mentioned in the mix with every big recruit. I like it

I also like that our coaches can easily explain the whole thing to Bolden and Carter. Illustrating that EVERYBODY wants what they currently have, an offer to play for Coach K at Duke.

You know you're hot $%&@ when we have to say 'no' to recruits rather than the other way around.

[tbyers11]

I notice in Airowe's blurb that Antonio Vrankovic is described as a "redshirt freshman" in 2016-17. I didn't know that was definitely going to happen, but I think it's probably best for everyone.

Good catch. Agree that it seemed likely, but hadn't actually seen it in print anywhere yet.

[dukelifer]

I notice in Airowe's blurb that Antonio Vrankovic is described as a "redshirt freshman" in 2016-17. I didn't know that was definitely going to happen, but I think it's probably best for everyone.

I was so looking forward to Vrank getting Duke 20 and 10 a game. Oh well, one more year to work on the hype. I am ready to post, however, that Vrank is the best player in practice and it is not even close.

[cato]

If he likes to block shots he shouldn't come to Duke. Coach K doesn't like the blocked shot as a play as it increases chances of fouling, pulls the defender out of position, sometimes doesn't work, and if you do block the shot you create a loose ball situation under the opponent's basket that you can't always control. Duke doesn't emphasize or teach blocking shots, which may be one of the reasons ignorant people think that Duke players can't block shots.

If K liked block shots, maybe Shelden could have had a shot at getting his jersey in the rafters.

[NSDukeFan]

If K liked block shots, maybe Shelden could have had a shot at getting his jersey in the rafters.

He only got it there for rebounding.

[JetpackJesus]

I have a friend who lives in Memphis, and he texted me a week ago that Duke was the front runner for Nichols. I asked where he heard that, and he said it was being reported pretty heavily by a lot of the local sports media. Of course, that was before the transfer restrictions were lifted. And it was a week ago. And I know nothing about the quality of the Memphis sports media. I thought it might be worth sharing regardless.

[Pghdukie]

I take Adam's word as gold. I believe someone may have a case of self-hype.

[JasonEvans]

I notice in Airowe's blurb that Antonio Vrankovic is described as a "redshirt freshman" in 2016-17. I didn't know that was definitely going to happen, but I think it's probably best for everyone.

With Obi, Jefferson, Jeter, and MP3 all getting their minutes at the 4 and 5 (IKTDDNHPBIAUTNTIWPPOTC*) and possibly Ingram playing a little bit of 4 as well, there is no reason for a kid like Vrank the Tank to do anything but redshirt. Justin Robinson too.

-Jason "I absolutely think we will see some of Ingram at the 4 and perhaps even the 5... Is it really impossible to imagine us pressing and playing fast paced with Jones, Kennard, Thornton, Allen, and Ingram at the same time?" Evans

*- I Know That Duke Does Not Have Positions But I Am Using These Numbers To Indicate Where Players Play On The Court

[Troublemaker]

Airowe says no.
http://duke.247sports.com/Bolt/Sources-Duke-not-pursuing-Memphis-transfer-Austin-Nichols-38218597


I have a friend who lives in Memphis, and he texted me a week ago that Duke was the front runner for Nichols. I asked where he heard that, and he said it was being reported pretty heavily by a lot of the local sports media. Of course, that was before the transfer restrictions were lifted. And it was a week ago. And I know nothing about the quality of the Memphis sports media. I thought it might be worth sharing regardless.


I take Adam's word as gold. I believe someone may have a case of self-hype.

These don't have to be contradictory reports. The Memphis connection may be hearing that Nichols' top preference is Duke, and airowe is hearing from Duke that they just aren't interested.

[JohnJ]

(IKTDDNHPBIAUTNTIWPPOTC*) and possibly Ingram playing a little bit of 4 as well, there is no reason for a kid like Vrank the Tank to do anything but redshirt. Justin Robinson too.

*- I Know That Duke Does Not Have Positions But I Am Using These Numbers To Indicate Where Players Play On The Court

Great acronym. I think we should start using this - at least the first part IKTDDNHP

[JasonEvans]

Great acronym. I think we should start using this - at least the first part IKTDDNHP

That was all I initially had written, IKTDDNHP, but then I added the rest on a lark. I am going to start using IKTDDNHP all the time from now on!

-Jason "nuf said" Evans

[kmspeaks]

That was all I initially had written, IKTDDNHP, but then I added the rest on a lark. I am going to start using IKTDDNHP all the time from now on!

-Jason "nuf said" Evans

Maybe it should be added to Throaty's HPR? 1V (or whatever letter is next, I don't know where the last one left off) is easier to type.

[sagegrouse]

I notice in Airowe's blurb that Antonio Vrankovic is described as a "redshirt freshman" in 2016-17. I didn't know that was definitely going to happen, but I think it's probably best for everyone.

Generally, "Redshirt" status in Duke hoops only occurs when, by the end of a season, a player on the team hasn't been in a game. It's never pre-announced because K wants everyone to be ready to play if needed. Of course, there is probably a plan at the beginning of the season, but it could be affected by injuries and other circumstances.

[CDu]

Generally, "Redshirt" status in Duke hoops only occurs when, by the end of a season, a player on the team hasn't been in a game. It's never pre-announced because K wants everyone to be ready to play if needed. Of course, there is probably a plan at the beginning of the season, but it could be affected by injuries and other circumstances.

Yes, this is true for most schools. With the caveat being that, because the rules say you can't play in ANY games, the plan to redshirt has to be agreed upon ahead of time. Otherwise, these guys would almost certainly see time in the numerous blowouts early in the season (rather than finishing with our walk-ons). You talk with the player beforehand and decide that redshirting makes the most sense. Then, you hold them out of play throughout the season unless absolutely needed. And after the season, it's announced that the player has redshirted.

So while technically a redshirt decision isn't necessarily stated publicly ahead of time, it's pretty clearly decided upon ahead of time. And we should be able to tell pretty quickly (i.e., within a few games) whether or not the plan to redshirt a particular player. Some schools are up front about it, but it's pretty clear when it is happening.

[JasonEvans]

Yes, this is true for most schools. With the caveat being that, because the rules say you can't play in ANY games, the plan to redshirt has to be agreed upon ahead of time. Otherwise, these guys would almost certainly see time in the numerous blowouts early in the season (rather than finishing with our walk-ons). You talk with the player beforehand and decide that redshirting makes the most sense. Then, you hold them out of play throughout the season unless absolutely needed. And after the season, it's announced that the player has redshirted.

So while technically a redshirt decision isn't necessarily stated publicly ahead of time, it's pretty clearly decided upon ahead of time. And we should be able to tell pretty quickly (i.e., within a few games) whether or not the plan to redshirt a particular player. Some schools are up front about it, but it's pretty clear when it is happening.

Generally, the player who is planning to redshirt will not even dress out for games. My bet is that we will see Vrank and Robinson in suits on the bench this season, not in uniform.

-Jason "they will be great practice bodies though, that's for sure!" Evans

[CDu]

Generally, the player who is planning to redshirt will not even dress out for games. My bet is that we will see Vrank and Robinson in suits on the bench this season, not in uniform.

-Jason "they will be great practice bodies though, that's for sure!" Evans

This is sometimes true, sometimes not. For example, Alex Murphy and Marshall Plumlee were both pretty clearly planning to redshirt as of November as freshman, but they dressed for every game that they were healthy for.

[MChambers]

This is sometimes true, sometimes not. For example, Alex Murphy and Marshall Plumlee were both pretty clearly planning to redshirt as of November as freshman, but they dressed for every game that they were healthy for.

Which presumably is why Jason prefaced his statement with "generally".

[ChillinDuke]

Which presumably is why Jason prefaced his statement with "generally".

But to CDu's point, is generally even correct? Other than redshirt players that are mandated to sit out due to transfer (Obi, Seth, etc) or due to injury, how many of our redshirts actually did not dress for games?

As CDu pointed out, Murphy and Plumlee dressed.

- Chillin

[CDu]

Which presumably is why Jason prefaced his statement with "generally".


But to CDu's point, is generally even correct? Other than redshirt players that are mandated to sit out due to transfer (Obi, Seth, etc) or due to injury, how many of our redshirts actually did not dress for games?

As CDu pointed out, Murphy and Plumlee dressed.

- Chillin

Exactly. True redshirts (i.e., those not related to injury or transfer) are somewhat rare in college basketball. I'm not sure if it is actually true that these types of redshirts generally don't dress. It's certainly not true in football (where true redshirts are very common, yet those players do dress). The idea is that you dress them just in case injuries (or, in the case of basketball, excessive foul trouble) forces your hand in a key game.

In basketball, though, not too many major programs (UVa and Kansas come to mind) employ redshirts for healthy and otherwise eligible players. Because of that rarity, I was citing the only examples I know of recently at Duke in which healthy non-transfers redshirted, and noted that they did dress in uniform for the games. I don't know that we have had any non-injury/transfer-related redshirts other than these two guys in the Coach K era, so I am not sure that we can make more of a generalized point about whether or not such players typically dress in uniform for games.

EDIT: Obviously I'm excluding Andre Dawkins, who technically redshirted. But as his redshirt was really a year away from the program entirely (and as such he wasn't on the bench at all), I don't really consider him as a meaningful example in this context.

[Olympic Fan]

But to CDu's point, is generally even correct? Other than redshirt players that are mandated to sit out due to transfer (Obi, Seth, etc) or due to injury, how many of our redshirts actually did not dress for games?

As CDu pointed out, Murphy and Plumlee dressed.

- Chillin

I'm trying to think ... how many voluntary redshirts have we had under K?

Marshall and Alex Murphy (whose redshirt was mandated by an early season injury) DID dress. Trajan Langdon, who redshirted his second season due to a serious injury, did NOT dress -- he was unable to play.

Not fair to include transfers who had to sit out -- Obi, Seth, Rodney, etc. -- since they were ineligible to play, no matter how great the need.

The first sign will be the first exhibition game. Kids planning to redshirt CAN play in the Blue-White game, but even one appearance in an exhibition will blow a redshirt year.

Now, there are provisions for a medical hardship that allow a kid to play in essentially one-fourth of the season and get that year back with an injury. I believe Murphy actually played in one or two exhibitions before his concussion in 2011-12. Nate James played in six games before he was shut down in 1998 -- a year he got back. Don't remember if he dressed any games late in the season. I don't think so.

BTW: The football practice of dressing redshirts can lead to problems. Back in 1980 Duke was finishing up a lopsided game at home. Coach Red Wilson turned to his assistants and said, "clear the bench". Somebody -- I never knew who -- sent freshman wide receiver Mark Militello into the game. He played two snaps I think. He was supposed to be redshirting. That cost him a year of eligibility. In 1983, he was a senior who caught 63 passes and made first-team All-ACC. He should have had another year, but because of that mistake in 1980, he lost his fifth year.

That never would have happened had he not dressed out ... I know that Duke is not the only school that's happened to.

[mattman91]

You know its the middle of the off-season when we are discussing what red shirt freshman will be wearing on the bench :p

[Thurber Whyte]

I'm trying to think ... how many voluntary redshirts have we had under K?

Two I can think of are George Burgin in '85-'86 and Kenny Blakeney in '90-'91. Both were understood to be redshirting from the outset of each year. Burgin was rail thin and supposedly his assignment that year was to put on weight, being told that he should be spending every free moment eating. I cannot recall whether Burgin dressed, but Blakeney was always in uniform on the bench.


You know its the middle of the off-season when we are discussing what red shirt freshman will be wearing on the bench :p

Since this is the summer, I will add that Kenny Blakeney looked really good because he was wearing the old style uniform.:p

[sagegrouse]

Generally, the player who is planning to redshirt will not even dress out for games. My bet is that we will see Vrank and Robinson in suits on the bench this season, not in uniform.

-Jason "they will be great practice bodies though, that's for sure!" Evans

I thought Marshall was in uniform his redshirt year. Same for Alex Murphy. Obu dressed in ultra-smart civvies for the games because he was not eligible to play.

[subzero02]

You know its the middle of the off-season when we are discussing what red shirt freshman will be wearing on the bench :p

Well played... It's amazing to watch the wandering paths of summer discussions.

[Duvall]

A: No. (https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/625364865918500864)

Nichols to Virginia, per Goodman. Glad to see Paul Tudor Jones didn't strongarm Memphis for nothing.

[jimsumner]

Two I can think of are George Burgin in '85-'86 and Kenny Blakeney in '90-'91. Both were understood to be redshirting from the outset of each year. Burgin was rail thin and supposedly his assignment that year was to put on weight, being told that he should be spending every free moment eating. I cannot recall whether Burgin dressed, but Blakeney was always in uniform on the bench.



Since this is the summer, I will add that Kenny Blakeney looked really good because he was wearing the old style uniform.:p

Matt Christensen also was a healthy redshirt. He played in 1996, took a two-year LDS mission in 1997 and 1998, redshirted in 1999 and played in 2000, 2001 and 2002, finishing his career as that rare seventh-year senior. His teammates called him "Uncle Matt."

[Forrest]

Nichols to UVa (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2531716-austin-nichols-to-virginia-latest-transfer-details-comments-and-reaction)

[Furniture]

Nichols to UVa (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2531716-austin-nichols-to-virginia-latest-transfer-details-comments-and-reaction)

Can he play right away?

[Duvall]

Can he play right away?

No, he has to redshirt and will have two seasons of eligibility remaining.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I feel like this is a good enough place to say that I hope the ACC puts its thumb on the scale and we get UVA-Duke home-and-homes the next few years, or at least once in that range if they're not allowed to have more. Those matchups are going to be a lot of fun.

[Olympic Fan]

Nichols is a pretty important get for the Cavs in view of the turnover after this season.

They lose four seniors -- Malcolm Brogdon, Anthony Gill, Evan Nolte and Mike Tobey -- the core of the two teams that won 30 games each (and should win 30 again).

The Cavs should return point guard London Perrantes (also part of that core) and Marial Shayok (who showed a lot of promise last year).

They'll also have Tennessee transfer Darius Thompson (I hear good things about him, but we'll see this year) and 7-foot redshirt Jack Salt.

Perrantes, Shayok and Thompson are all perimeter guys ... Salt an unknown. Nichols will give them a proven front-court presence and a rim protector to replace Gill in that role.

The one negative might be the impact on Sacha Killeya-Jones, a prep senior from Chapel Hill (a four-star guy, rated No. 57 by ESPN, but playing well this summer and likely to move up). The kid committed to Virginia a year ago, but changed his mind and backed off after getting a strong push from UNC and the Roy lie that UNC would not be punished by the NCAA. Not sure he's buying that, but he has given indications that he'll wait until spring to see. He's also got offers from Kentucky, Kansas and NC State, among others.

Nichols and the 6-11, 190 Killeya-Jones are not mutually exclusive, still, they are similar enough that it might scare him away.

But Nichols probably has more impact in 2016-17 ... and Virginia might feel that Killeya-Jones was slipping away anyway.

[Dev11]

The one negative might be the impact on Sacha Killeya-Jones, a prep senior from Chapel Hill (a four-star guy, rated No. 57 by ESPN, but playing well this summer and likely to move up). The kid committed to Virginia a year ago, but changed his mind and backed off after getting a strong push from UNC and the Roy lie that UNC would not be punished by the NCAA. Not sure he's buying that, but he has given indications that he'll wait until spring to see. He's also got offers from Kentucky, Kansas and NC State, among others.

Nichols and the 6-11, 190 Killeya-Jones are not mutually exclusive, still, they are similar enough that it might scare him away.

But Nichols probably has more impact in 2016-17 ... and Virginia might feel that Killeya-Jones was slipping away anyway.

It's also a matter of a bird in hand. Nichols brings at least one, maybe two years of proven high level talent to UVA, rather than a high school guy who may also leave early and hasn't proven himself at this level yet. If I'm Bennett, I'd take Nichols. Then again, I'm just a freak with a microphone.

[roywhite]

Virginia's approach in terms of it's roster and development has been different than Duke's, but it can work just as well or better.

They are not so far getting the McDonald's A-A or top 30 prospects. Bennett has attracted good, solid players with high character and schooled them well in team ball and especially defense. The Cavs seem to be smart, experienced, and tough nearly every year. Justin Anderson left early, but that's been the exception so far.

NCAA success has eluded them, but winning 30 games and doing great in-conference is very impressive. Nichols should fit right in. Looks like the Cavs are here to stay.

[devildeac]

I feel like this is a good enough place to say that I hope the ACC puts its thumb on the scale and we get UVA-Duke home-and-homes the next few years, or at least once in that range if they're not allowed to have more. Those matchups are going to be a lot of fun.

Time for a new rival, at least one that doesn't cheat :rolleyes:. Register my (non-counting) vote in favor of this one;). As we've discussed before, put NCSU on our schedule twice every season, too.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Looks like the Cavs are here to stay.

Assuming that Tony Bennett stays. Offer from Wisconsin might be tough for him to turn down.

[-jk]

I think he's settled. He's got a good thing going. Don't see him abandoning it...

-jk

[Wahoo2000]

Nichols is a pretty important get for the Cavs in view of the turnover after this season.

They lose four seniors -- Malcolm Brogdon, Anthony Gill, Evan Nolte and Mike Tobey -- the core of the two teams that won 30 games each (and should win 30 again).

The Cavs should return point guard London Perrantes (also part of that core) and Marial Shayok (who showed a lot of promise last year).

They'll also have Tennessee transfer Darius Thompson (I hear good things about him, but we'll see this year) and 7-foot redshirt Jack Salt.

Perrantes, Shayok and Thompson are all perimeter guys ... Salt an unknown. Nichols will give them a proven front-court presence and a rim protector to replace Gill in that role.

The one negative might be the impact on Sacha Killeya-Jones, a prep senior from Chapel Hill (a four-star guy, rated No. 57 by ESPN, but playing well this summer and likely to move up). The kid committed to Virginia a year ago, but changed his mind and backed off after getting a strong push from UNC and the Roy lie that UNC would not be punished by the NCAA. Not sure he's buying that, but he has given indications that he'll wait until spring to see. He's also got offers from Kentucky, Kansas and NC State, among others.

Nichols and the 6-11, 190 Killeya-Jones are not mutually exclusive, still, they are similar enough that it might scare him away.

But Nichols probably has more impact in 2016-17 ... and Virginia might feel that Killeya-Jones was slipping away anyway.

We're not getting Killeya-Jones back. I think he continues to mention us, but that ship has sailed. Pretty strong shot he ends up at UNC, seemed somewhat enamored by KY offer as well. I could see him picking up right where Brice Johnson will leave off without too much of a dropoff if he continues to work on his strength.

As for UVa, we'll be more than happy to finish this class off with Mamadi Diakite (top 30-50 range if you average out the major services). We've been listed as a huge leader for his services all along, but that doesn't ALWAYS pan out. That would leave one scholly open for a top wing target or we'll just hold it and see what things look like in the spring.

In your analysis of 16-17 for us, you left out one player - Isaiah Wilkins, who looks to step right in to that Akil Mitchell/Darion Atkins role of athletic big/rebounder/defensive stopper. He and Shayok seem to both be far and away the best players out of that class. I'd guess (with less than total confidence) that the "major players" for us in 2 years will be Nichols, Perrantes, Shayok, & Wilkins. Chance some of our freshmen crack the rotation, as they're all rated higher than any other recruit (Anderson/Harris/Brogdon) of the Bennett era.

[sagegrouse]

Assuming that Tony Bennett stays. Offer from Wisconsin might be tough for him to turn down.


I think he's settled. He's got a good thing going. Don't see him abandoning it...

-jk

I agree with -jk. No way tony Bennett leaves the best basketball conference to go to the Big Ten. Moreover, at Wisconsin, he would have to listen to their oom-pah-pah pep band 20 times a year. It would drive him crazy.

[Wahoo2000]

Assuming that Tony Bennett stays. Offer from Wisconsin might be tough for him to turn down.

He's not going to Wisconsin, according to those who are very close to the Bennett family. The true test of whether Bennett will stick at UVA will be if/when the NBA comes calling. However, the longer he's at UVA, the tougher it will get to leave. He's a BIG family guy and his wife loves the town, and the kids are apparently very happy at their schools. Just don't see him uprooting or leaving the family - and we'll match money from pretty much anywhere.

[Duvall]

I agree with -jk. No way tony Bennett leaves the best basketball conference to go to the Big Ten.

There are two better basketball conferences where Bennett might take a job, though. He even played in one of them.

[MarkD83]

I feel like this is a good enough place to say that I hope the ACC puts its thumb on the scale and we get UVA-Duke home-and-homes the next few years, or at least once in that range if they're not allowed to have more. Those matchups are going to be a lot of fun.

I would definitely be in favor. As a UVA graduate school alum I keep getting flyers to buy "partial" season tickets which I grab most years that Duke plays in C'ville. Having that opportunity every year would be great.

[Pghdukie]

I believe Wisconsin would be a step dowN for Bennett. He put in a ton of sweat equity for the Cavs. I agree he won't leave unless the Lakers offer him a "K" type contract

[Wahoo2000]

Virginia's approach in terms of it's roster and development has been different than Duke's, but it can work just as well or better.

They are not so far getting the McDonald's A-A or top 30 prospects. Bennett has attracted good, solid players with high character and schooled them well in team ball and especially defense. The Cavs seem to be smart, experienced, and tough nearly every year. Justin Anderson left early, but that's been the exception so far.

NCAA success has eluded them, but winning 30 games and doing great in-conference is very impressive. Nichols should fit right in. Looks like the Cavs are here to stay.

Agree with all you said. It's still yet-to-be-determined if Bennett's style of roster management and coaching philosophy can create top-tier NCAA tourney results (final fours & title games). Still, after the last 20 years of late Jones/Gillen/Leitao/early Bennett, we're pretty happy with just being a top 5-10 program throughout the regular season. Now, if it's 2020 and Bennett still hasn't gotten past the sweet 16, more than a few fans will be frustrated. I don't really expect that to happen though. The kenpom numbers indicate we ARE legit, and we can't possibly run into Izzo (who I personally believe to be the most consistent and maybe best tournament coach in the NCAA - no disrespect to K meant) EVERY year....... can we?

[Duvall]

Virginia's approach in terms of it's roster and development has been different than Duke's, but it can work just as well or better.

I'm not sure that's true. Sure, you can put together a great team or two by hitting on a bunch of lower-rated prospects all at once - it worked for Gary Williams in the 2000-2002 stretch, and it's working for Bennett now. And you build a good program with solid players that develop over time, if you define a good program as one that makes the NCAA Tournament just about every year and occasionally competes for a league title. But I don't think you can match, or even approach, the success Duke has had over the last three decades without landing elite talent on a regular basis. Maybe Bennett will start doing that, but he hasn't yet.

[Duvall]

The kenpom numbers indicate we ARE legit, and we can't possibly run into Izzo (who I personally believe to be the most consistent and maybe best tournament coach in the NCAA - no disrespect to K meant) EVERY year....... can we?

It's certainly true that there are few things more consistent than the performance of Tom Izzo's teams against Mike Krzyzewski's teams in regular season or tournament play.

[roywhite]

It's certainly true that there are few things more consistent than the performance of Tom Izzo's teams against Mike Krzyzewski's teams in regular season or tournament play.

Coach K is 9-1 vs Izzo (3-1 in NCAA Tournament games).

[Duvall]

Coach K is 9-1 vs Izzo (3-1 in NCAA Tournament games).

Exactly. That's remarkably consistency over two decades.

[MChambers]

He's not going to Wisconsin, according to those who are very close to the Bennett family. The true test of whether Bennett will stick at UVA will be if/when the NBA comes calling. However, the longer he's at UVA, the tougher it will get to leave. He's a BIG family guy and his wife loves the town, and the kids are apparently very happy at their schools. Just don't see him uprooting or leaving the family - and we'll match money from pretty much anywhere.
Unless Bennett has serious Final Four success, I can't see him in the NBA. His deliberate style just won't fit there.

[Olympic Fan]

Interesting comparison with Izzo amd Bennett vs. K ...

K is 6-2 vs. Bennett and 9-1 vs. Izzo ... Izzo is also winless against Roy Williams at UNC (something like 0-6 or 0-7 ... don't care enough to look it up; he might have beaten Roy when Williams was at Kansas ... not sure).

I talked to a writer from Virginia last week and said Bennett has either just signed or is about to sign a contract extension. I mentioned the Wisconsin rumors and he dismissed them ... but he did mention the new buyout clause and it was fairly small ($1 million, I think).

[gep]

Agree with all you said. It's still yet-to-be-determined if Bennett's style of roster management and coaching philosophy can create top-tier NCAA tourney results (final fours & title games). Still, after the last 20 years of late Jones/Gillen/Leitao/early Bennett, we're pretty happy with just being a top 5-10 program throughout the regular season. Now, if it's 2020 and Bennett still hasn't gotten past the sweet 16, more than a few fans will be frustrated. I don't really expect that to happen though. The kenpom numbers indicate we ARE legit, and we can't possibly run into Izzo (who I personally believe to be the most consistent and maybe best tournament coach in the NCAA - no disrespect to K meant) EVERY year....... can we?

Isn't this what happened to Steve Lavin at UCLA? Some large numbers of Sweet 16's, but never advanced? Then... out:confused:

[Des Esseintes]

Isn't this what happened to Steve Lavin at UCLA? Some large numbers of Sweet 16's, but never advanced? Then... out:confused:

Not really. Lavin's UCLA teams were regular season underachievers. For a few years, though, they then outperformed their seed and made the Sweet 16. It kept Lavin employed there longer than made sense, and eventually the luck ran out. UVA, meanwhile, is the literal opposite. Bennett's teams have been legitimately elite; they've just had bad games at the wrong time.

[COYS]

Not really. Lavin's UCLA teams were regular season underachievers. For a few years, though, they then outperformed their seed and made the Sweet 16. It kept Lavin employed there longer than made sense, and eventually the luck ran out. UVA, meanwhile, is the literal opposite. Bennett's teams have been legitimately elite; they've just had bad games at the wrong time.

The luck gods weren't on their side this year, either, with arguably their most dynamic player suffering an injury, missing time, and then trying to get back in the swing of things. To make the FF, a team usually needs to be both really good and lucky. The hardest part of the equation, in my opinion, is the first part. If Bennett continues to put really good teams on the court, the "luck" part of the equation will work in his favor, whether that be a favorable bracket, a healthy squad, or even an injury to an opponent's player instead of his own. (Obviously, no one wishes for this. I remember how bummed I was for Purdue back in 2010 when Robbie Hummel suffered an ACL tear . . . even though it meant that Duke's match up with them in the Sweet 16 suddenly looked a lot more favorable.)

[DarkstarWahoo]

Interesting comparison with Izzo amd Bennett vs. K ...

K is 6-2 vs. Bennett and 9-1 vs. Izzo ... Izzo is also winless against Roy Williams at UNC (something like 0-6 or 0-7 ... don't care enough to look it up; he might have beaten Roy when Williams was at Kansas ... not sure).

I talked to a writer from Virginia last week and said Bennett has either just signed or is about to sign a contract extension. I mentioned the Wisconsin rumors and he dismissed them ... but he did mention the new buyout clause and it was fairly small ($1 million, I think).

I don't think it was an extension per se, but they did rework his contract and put some pretty heavy incentives to stay, notably a $3 million buyout. I have no idea if that's applicable to NBA teams as well, but I don't know why it wouldn't be.

[jhmoss1812]

For those of you interested in UVA's recruiting for 2016. We already have landed commitments from Ty Jerome (4-star PG - #68 on Rivals), Kyle Guy (4-star SG - #59 on Rivals) and Jay Huff (3-star stretch 4 that Duke had interest in). Jerome and Guy are arguable two of the top 5 shooters in the class and Huff is a very good shooter for being nearly 7-feet tall. We also will have Nichols eligible that year. We are the prohibitive favorite for Mamadi Diakite (4-star F - #30 on Rivals) by all accounts and still in contention for Wenyen Gabriel (who you guys have offered). If we land Diakite, we probably wouldn't take Gabriel too. I would probably say Gabriel is a long shot now as he is blowing up and probably a one-and-done type player now. Then, we are in the final six for our top wing prospect Braxton Blackwell (4-star F - #38 on Rivals). If we land Diakite (near lock imo) and Blackwell (solid contention), that is a VERY VERY good class for us. So I think the success we've been having on the court is starting to make top recruits (not elite) notice. We'll never recruit like Duke or Kentucky but our roster should be comprised of top 100 players with some top 50 players sprinkled in. And Kyle Guy is Michael Porter Jr's best friend so who knows what could happen for 2017. If he's not a package deal with Trae Young, we might have a chance.

[Edouble]

The luck gods weren't on their side this year, either, with arguably their most dynamic player suffering an injury, missing time, and then trying to get back in the swing of things. To make the FF, a team usually needs to be both really good and lucky. The hardest part of the equation, in my opinion, is the first part. If Bennett continues to put really good teams on the court, the "luck" part of the equation will work in his favor, whether that be a favorable bracket, a healthy squad, or even an injury to an opponent's player instead of his own. (Obviously, no one wishes for this. I remember how bummed I was for Purdue back in 2010 when Robbie Hummel suffered an ACL tear . . . even though it meant that Duke's match up with them in the Sweet 16 suddenly looked a lot more favorable.)

Agree... this is how it works. If you can be consistently good year in and year out, eventually the luck part goes your way and you make a nice run to the Final Four/NC.

[Billy Dat]

The kenpom numbers indicate we ARE legit, and we can't possibly run into Izzo (who I personally believe to be the most consistent and maybe best tournament coach in the NCAA - no disrespect to K meant) EVERY year....... can we?

I know, Izzo is a real bear in the NCAAs. K's had a ton of trouble with him both in the tournament and outside of it.

;) #stylesmakefights

[sagegrouse]

I know, Izzo is a real bear in the NCAAs. K's had a ton of trouble with him both in the tournament and outside of it.

;) #stylesmakefights

Ease up, Billy Dat! The Wahoo will take you seriously.

Kindly,
Sage

[Billy Dat]

Ease up, Billy Dat! The Wahoo will take you seriously.

Kindly,
Sage

I missed the previous iterations of the same theme offered by Duvall, roywhite and Olympic Fan - too funny - K's domination of Izzo is a nice feather in his cap.

In all seriousness, it would be nice for the ACC scheduling gurus to sniff the fact that Duke v UVA is a nice little rivalry right now and assign it a home and home. Maybe they will for 2016-2018.

[Wahoo2000]

I missed the previous iterations of the same theme offered by Duvall, roywhite and Olympic Fan - too funny - K's domination of Izzo is a nice feather in his cap.

In all seriousness, it would be nice for the ACC scheduling gurus to sniff the fact that Duke v UVA is a nice little rivalry right now and assign it a home and home. Maybe they will for 2016-2018.

Yeah - I already knew about K's (and Roy's for that matter) domination vs Izzo before I posted. Sometimes, one particular coach/style just seems to have your number. Or maybe it's just the fact that despite all the success Bennett's had so far, he's still relatively inexperienced in the NCAA tourney - and SUPER inexperienced when compared with guys like Izzo or K who've coached seemingly hundreds of games there.

Still have faith we'll get there - Tony has waaaay overachieved with recruits usually in the #80-#130 range. Now he seems to be upgrading the talent somewhat significantly (2016 class is almost entirely top 50 guys plus Nichols who'll be eligible in 16 as well). If he can "coach them up" as much as he did much lower rated guys like Mitchell and Harris I like where we're headed.

[Indoor66]

Yeah - I already knew about K's (and Roy's for that matter) domination vs Izzo before I posted. Sometimes, one particular coach/style just seems to have your number. Or maybe it's just the fact that despite all the success Bennett's had so far, he's still relatively inexperienced in the NCAA tourney - and SUPER inexperienced when compared with guys like Izzo or K who've coached seemingly hundreds of games there.

Still have faith we'll get there - Tony has waaaay overachieved with recruits usually in the #80-#130 range. Now he seems to be upgrading the talent somewhat significantly (2016 class is almost entirely top 50 guys plus Nichols who'll be eligible in 16 as well). If he can "coach them up" as much as he did much lower rated guys like Mitchell and Harris I like where we're headed.

I really like what he as done so far. That said, the next step is very tall and not many are successful conquering it! I wish him well.

[Edouble]

I really like what he as done so far. That said, the next step is very tall and not many are successful conquering it! I wish him well.

And the step after that, maintaining the success, is even harder still. Just ask Gary Williams, Paul Hewitt, and to a lesser extent Dave Odom at Wake and Rick Barnes at Clemson. Climbing the mountain once has been done by many, and all but a handful fall back down.

[Indoor66]

And the step after that, maintaining the success, is even harder still. Just ask Gary Williams, Paul Hewitt, and to a lesser extent Dave Odom at Wake and Rick Barnes at Clemson. Climbing the mountain once has been done by many, and all but a handful fall back down.

Just ask Sisyphus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus)! :cool:

[BD80]

Just ask Sisyphus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus)! :cool:

That is just soooo politically incorrect, calling someone a sissy-puss.

[BobBender]

And the step after that, maintaining the success, is even harder still. Just ask Gary Williams, Paul Hewitt, and to a lesser extent Dave Odom at Wake and Rick Barnes at Clemson. Climbing the mountain once has been done by many, and all but a handful fall back down.

The implications of this thread are clear, that Bennett has taken a first step but not necessarily established a permanency. And , of course, K was able to do this. The pertinent question around here should be what makes us believe Jeff Capel is going to sustain this. Sure, he's a great recruiter. His head coaching record leaves more questions than answers.

[Duvall]

The pertinent question around here should be what makes us believe Jeff Capel is going to sustain this. Sure, he's a great recruiter. His head coaching record leaves more questions than answers.

In what sense is that question pertinent? No one has mentioned Capel in this thread, as far as I can tell.

It's not reasonable to assume that *anyone* can sustain the success of Duke under Mike Krzyzewski - that would require Duke hiring the two greatest coaches in college basketball history back-to-back, which seems unlikely at best.

[MChambers]

In what sense is that question pertinent? No one has mentioned Capel in this thread, as far as I can tell.

It's not reasonable to assume that *anyone* can sustain the success of Duke under Mike Krzyzewski - that would require Duke hiring the two greatest coaches in college basketball history back-to-back, which seems unlikely at best.
Only one school has a chance to do it, and that's Duke! How cool is that?

[BobBender]

In what sense is that question pertinent? No one has mentioned Capel in this thread, as far as I can tell.

It's not reasonable to assume that *anyone* can sustain the success of Duke under Mike Krzyzewski - that would require Duke hiring the two greatest coaches in college basketball history back-to-back, which seems unlikely at best.

Petinence is: the entire spirit of this thread devolved from discussing a possible transfer to Duke ( Nichols) to a slap at Bennett because he has been stymied by Izzo the last 2 years. That is because Izzo has been dominated by K, so of course it placed Bennett in an unfavorable light. The point is Bennett's first six years compares quite favorably with anyone's ( including K) first six. And there will come a time in the not-too-distant future when Bennett is the Big Dog of conference coaches. If indeed Capel is the coach in five years ( or less), the current dynamic is likely to be quite different. Bennett has shown he can coach, Capel hasn't. Passing the baton may not be the answer here.

[Duvall]

Petinence is: the entire spirit of this thread devolved from discussing a possible transfer to Duke ( Nichols) to a slap at Bennett because he has been stymied by Izzo the last 2 years. That is because Izzo has been dominated by K, so of course it placed Bennett in an unfavorable light.

Well, those were actually slaps at Izzo in response to the suggestion that he might be the best or most consistent coach in the sport. It wasn't about Bennett; not everything is.


The point is Bennett's first six years compares quite favorably with anyone's ( including K) first six.

Do they? I assume you mean Bennett's first six years at Virginia, which have been impressive, but slightly less so than Krzyzewski's first six years at Duke, Roy Williams' first six years at Kansas, Williams' first six years at UNC, Izzo's first six years at Michigan State.


And there will come a time in the not-too-distant future when Bennett is the Big Dog of conference coaches. If indeed Capel is the coach in five years ( or less), the current dynamic is likely to be quite different. Bennett has shown he can coach, Capel hasn't. Passing the baton may not be the answer here.

Possibly. It's not even the question though at the moment.

[JasonEvans]

The point is Bennett's first six years compares quite favorably with anyone's ( including K) first six.

Tony Bennett has been a major (BCS program) college coach for 9 years now and is yet to have a team come within even a game of a Final Four. Yes, he has done some impressive things at UVA (and to a lesser extent Washington St.) but lets not go overboard in the praise of him. You seem to be convinced he will be the Big Dog in the conference at some point. I'm far from convinced that will ever be the case. At a minimum, one would expect Duke, UNC, and Louisville to always have an elite coach at the helm, even once K, Roy, and Rick retire.

I say none of this to insult or put Tony Bennett down. I believe he is one of the finest coaches in the land and his pack line defense is quite formidable. But I think your certainty about his future success (and your certainty that Capel -- if he follows K -- will struggle) is misguided. Time will tell...

-Jason "It will be interesting to see if Bennett can have another 30-win season. Those are hard to come by and he is in very rare company with back-to-back 30 win seasons" Evans

[Kedsy]

Tony Bennett has been a major (BCS program) college coach for 9 years now and is yet to have a team come within even a game of a Final Four.

Well, in Coach K's first 10 seasons as a Division I head coach, he didn't get past the 2nd round of the NCAAT (and he only made the tournament twice). I understand Army wasn't a "major," but when Bennett took over Washington State from his father, the school hadn't been to the NCAA tournament since 1994, so I'm not sure the distinction is so significant.

[BobBender]

Tony Bennett has been a major (BCS program) college coach for 9 years now and is yet to have a team come within even a game of a Final Four. Yes, he has done some impressive things at UVA (and to a lesser extent Washington St.) but lets not go overboard in the praise of him. You seem to be convinced he will be the Big Dog in the conference at some point. I'm far from convinced that will ever be the case. At a minimum, one would expect Duke, UNC, and Louisville to always have an elite coach at the helm, even once K, Roy, and Rick retire.

I say none of this to insult or put Tony Bennett down. I believe he is one of the finest coaches in the land and his pack line defense is quite formidable. But I think your certainty about his future success (and your certainty that Capel -- if he follows K -- will struggle) is misguided. Time will tell...

-Jason "It will be interesting to see if Bennett can have another 30-win season. Those are hard to come by and he is in very rare company with back-to-back 30 win seasons" Evans

Getting to the Final Four as the ultimate measure of success certainly fits your narrative. K happened to take that first great recruiting class to the FF in his 6th year after 4 fairly ho-hum years. But I will maintain that Bennett will be the 'Big Dog" in five years, assuming K hangs it up around that time. And if we are to have an "elite" coach succeeding him, keeping it in the family, it will have to be Wojo or Dawkins. Capel left a mess at Oklahoma, including probation immediately upon his departure. He does not fit into the " elite coach" status, elite recruiter, perhaps

[Wahoo2000]

Getting to the Final Four as the ultimate measure of success certainly fits your narrative. K happened to take that first great recruiting class to the FF in his 6th year after 4 fairly ho-hum years. But I will maintain that Bennett will be the 'Big Dog" in five years, assuming K hangs it up around that time. And if we are to have an "elite" coach succeeding him, keeping it in the family, it will have to be Wojo or Dawkins. Capel left a mess at Oklahoma, including probation immediately upon his departure. He does not fit into the " elite coach" status, elite recruiter, perhaps

As a UVA fan, none of it is even about Bennett becoming the "big dog" or anything like that. It's just about whether or not he has the ability to turn us into a perennial top 5/10 program. I don't care if he's the best/2nd best/3rd best coach in the conference. I just want him to turn us into a PROGRAM. The kind that if you ask any top 50 prep player to name off 5-10 of the best programs, we're in there every time. There's still a good bit of work to be done, but he seems to be making all the right moves so far.