Welcome to Duke, Jayson Tatum!

[OldPhiKap]

Great performance in the Peach Jam semifinal. Kid is a stud, should thrive in our offensive systems.

[tbyers11]

Great performance in the Peach Jam semifinal. Kid is a stud, should thrive in our offensive systems.

Yay! Welcome to Duke, Jayson!

I wonder if the Duke coaching staff knew that he was currently announcing his choice on TV? They looked kind of ho-hum when the camera cut away to them.

[Bob Green]

Jayson Tatum demonstrated an awesome mid-range game as he led the St. Louis Eagles to victory over CP3 in the semi-finals. Welcome to Duke!

[SCMatt33]

Great performance in the Peach Jam semifinal. Kid is a stud, should thrive in our offensive systems.

And with the win, we can all watch Duke commit Jayson Tatum play in the finals later on. I like the sound of that!

[johnb]

http://fox2now.com/2015/07/12/chaminade-basketball-star-jayson-tatum-commits-to-duke-university/

[OldPhiKap]

I like that he also referred to "his best friend, Harry Giles" and that he would work on him to commit, too! What a pair that would be.

[flyingdutchdevil]

AMAZING!!!!! Welcome to Duke, indeed!

I don't have confidence in players choosing Duke (especially after HB, who I was convinced at the time would choose Duke), but I had a good feeling about Tatum. Is IC melting down yet?

[tbyers11]

AMAZING!!!!! Welcome to Duke, indeed!

I don't have confidence in players choosing Duke (especially after HB, who I was convinced at the time would choose Duke), but I had a good feeling about Tatum. Is IC melting down yet?

I didn't want to jinx anything before hand but I agree on the good vibes toward Tatum. All of the gurus were predicting Duke.

Also, if his choice was truly down to SLU and Duke (despite everyone still mentioning UK and UNC) and he was picking SLU wouldn't he want to do it back home in Saint Louis?

[DavidBenAkiva]

Wow that was a crazy way to end his recruitment! He helps lead his team back from a 20 point deficit to tie the game at 71. Then his friend Harry Giles sticks a turnaround 10 footer from his left hand to give CP3 the lead. The guard for Tatum's St. Louis Eagles looks to Tatum but finds him doubled so he goes with the off balance, running double clutch 3 at the buzzer that hits nothing but net. A few minutes later, he has a low-keyed, almost anti-climactic interview with the ESPNU crew and commits to Duke.

I watch some of the game and the commitment. The only time it seemed he showed much emotion is when his teammate Jordan Barnes nailed the winner. I like this kid - and he is a lights out free throw shooter! Now go get your best friend Harry Giles to commit in a few months while the coaching staff locks up Marques Bolden and Frank Jackson.

[Eternal Outlaw]

Always a good day when a young man decides he wants to play his home games in Cameron.

[Olympic Fan]

AMAZING!!!!! Welcome to Duke, indeed!

I don't have confidence in players choosing Duke (especially after HB, who I was convinced at the time would choose Duke), but I had a good feeling about Tatum. Is IC melting down yet?

I wouldn't say meltdown -- they were pretty resigned to the fact that he wasn't going to UNC (he never made an official visit there).

A few snarky remarks, as you'd expect, but nothing like a typical IC meltdown.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I didn't want to jinx anything before hand but I agree on the good vibes toward Tatum. All of the gurus were predicting Duke.

Also, if his choice was truly down to SLU and Duke (despite everyone still mentioning UK and UNC) and he was picking SLU wouldn't he want to do it back home in Saint Louis?

Good call.

Coach K's pitch was insanely easy: "Jayson, I see a lot of Grant Hill and Justise Winslow in you. They have three college titles combined. You can and will play the 2, 3, and 4 at the college level. I'll do everything to make sure you are a top 3 pick in the NBA draft. Oh yeah, did I mention that your teammates will be an experienced SG (Jones), a speedy PG with scoring and passing potential (Thornton), a gifted 3pt shooter who will give you plenty of space (Kennard), a top rebounding big man (Obi), a tall, high potential 4/5 with a back-to-the-basket game (Jeter), and possibly an athletic wing who - if he stays - will help form the scariest wing tandem in modern basketball history. Oh yeah, we're also putting our recruiting into 6th gear on your buddy, Mr Harry Giles".

[DavidBenAkiva]

Man, we have been so lucky in recruiting all these wings the past few years! First, it's Kyle Singler. Then in quick succession, we get Rodney Hood to transfer, Jabari Parker, Justise Winslow, Brandon Ingram, and now Jayson Tatum. That's an incredible amount of talent at the wing.

Michael Porter, Jr., I hope you are next!

[ChillinDuke]

Welcome, Jayson!!! I look forward to watching you in Duke blue and following your career.

Man this guy looks good. Super fluid on the court. Very talented. Great body type; lots of options.

And man he seems like a great addition to the program. Super low-key in that interview and next to zero fanfare in his actual announcement.

Love it. Love it. Love it!

- Chillin

[brevity]

Is IC melting down yet?

For those of you with weaker constitutions, go to the indirect source: the IC Meltdown (https://twitter.com/icmeltdown) Twitter feed. Recent entries suggest that many of its members have landed on the fifth stage of grief: acceptance.

"I fully expect Giles, Tatum and smith to all be in a duke uniform in 2016 and in all honesty who can blame them" #unc #PutTheScissorsDown

"Well that's pretty demoralizing." #unc #tatum

"Capel is more in tune to the culture the young kids are living today. We just don't have that type of coach on our staff right now" #unc

"K is waxing Roy. Period. I will now listen to the crowd saying its the pending sanctions. Yada Yada Yada" #unc #Tatum

"we are no longer the better program. Duke has taken over and it makes me sick to my stomach" #unc

"Since Capel's return to d**k there recruiting has been great .. guess he & fats are working together" #Fats #unc

"USA Basketball is THE driving factor behind K's recruiting success right now" #NotTheFiveRings #unc

[Henderson]

Well howdy. What a great get. I think we're going to like Mr. Tatum quite a lot.

Welcome!

[OldPhiKap]

For those of you with weaker constitutions, go to the indirect source: the IC Meltdown (https://twitter.com/icmeltdown) Twitter feed. Recent entries suggest that many of its members have landed on the fifth stage of grief: acceptance.



Although there is a fair bit of typical delusion:


Good luck with the worst decision of your life d**kie. I hope you at least had the decency of paying respect to Coach Williams by calling him before pulling out that ugly shirt, but I doubt it.

Can't wait til Justin and Theo drop 30 each on your sorry self when you come into the Dean Dome and when we play you in that high school gym of yours.

I hope that Giles at least has the sense to come here and play with his buddy Theo, but either way we will be more than fine.

Remember that its ALWAYS a good day to be a Tar Heel. The d**kies surely can't say the same.


Bwahahahahaha.

[Troublemaker]

Love it, and yeah, he was brilliant in the comeback.

Coach K gets to coach Kobe Bryant in college afterall. (Hey, stylistically, Kobe's the player Jayson reminds me of.)

[Nugget]

I like that he also referred to "his best friend, Harry Giles" and that he would work on him to commit, too! What a pair that would be.

Was also nice to see how legitimately devastated Giles was after losing the game. Bodes well for him as a competitor.

[Bob Green]

"...Oh yeah, did I mention that your teammates will be an experienced SG (Jones), a speedy PG with scoring and passing potential (Thornton), a gifted 3pt shooter who will give you plenty of space (Kennard), a top rebounding big man (Obi), a tall, high potential 4/5 with a back-to-the-basket game (Jeter), and possibly an athletic wing who - if he stays - will help form the scariest wing tandem in modern basketball history."

So are you saying Grayson Allen is going pro after his sophomore season? :)

[flyingdutchdevil]

So are you saying Grayson Allen is going pro after his sophomore season? :)

The athletic wing that I referenced is Grayson. Sorry, but I'm under the assumption that Ingram is 100% gone and Grayson is 50/50. Grayson has the athleticism and the potential to be a first round pick next year. The question is whether he will be a lottery pick.

[Bob Green]

The athletic wing that I referenced is Grayson.

My mistake, I assumed you were referencing Ingram and had forgotten Allen.

[Furniture]

How are the minutes going to be spread? (Wink wink).

[NashvilleDevil]

Although there is a fair bit of typical delusion:




Bwahahahahaha.

So Justin and Theo will still be at UNC according to that trash talk to an 18 year old?

[Duke3517]

Solid pickup, welcome to Duke! Looks like lately Duke is out recruiting Kentucky.

[flyingdutchdevil]

My mistake, I assumed you were referencing Ingram and had forgotten Allen.

I shoulda been more specific. This year's team has the genetic makeup to be anything (we really have so many pieces but I am clueless as to what the coaching staff will do). If Giles comes on board and Grayson stays, our genetic makeup in 2016-17 will be "yeah....we're rolling out 5 top athletes. Have fun guarding us". Thornton (super athletic PG), Tatum (Kobe Jr), Giles, and Grayson is pure athleticism. I'd expect CP3 to ask for his 2 years of eligibility back so that he can roll out a real Lob City.

[Duvall]

Although there is a fair bit of typical delusion:


Has Theo Pinson scored 30 points yet? Not in a game, mind you, but in his career?

[moonpie23]

YES!!!!!!!! Welcome, INDEED!!!!!!!!!

[timmy c]

Has Theo Pinson scored 30 points yet? Not in a game, mind you, but in his career?

68 puts to be exact. Oh, 72 rebounds and 37 assists in 300 minutes.

More importantly,
WELCOME Jayson Tatum!

[OldPhiKap]

Has Theo Pinson scored 30 points yet? Not in a game, mind you, but in his career?


68 puts to be exact. Oh, 72 rebounds and 37 assists in 300 minutes.

More importantly,
WELCOME Jayson Tatum!

Q: who is the only guy who can hold Theo under 30 ppg?

A: Roy Williams.

[flyingdutchdevil]

68 puts to be exact. Oh, 72 rebounds and 37 assists in 300 minutes.

More importantly,
WELCOME Jayson Tatum!

In Pinson's defense, RoyWill had to play Nate Britt 15 min a game because he's the best back-up PG in the ACC (paging /Wheat). That really eats into Pinson's minutes. ;)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I liked this demeanor and his low-key delivery. Not that those things in any way translate on the court, but seems like a kid with his head on his shoulders.

It's a good time to be a Blue Devil, I tell you what.

[Duvall]

This 87% free throw shooting is pretty exciting.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Q: who is the only guy who can hold Theo under 30 ppg?

A: Roy Williams.

The stoopid system won't let me spork that.

I guffawed.

[Troublemaker]

Tatum's Nike circuit stats are here: http://www.d1circuit.com/roster_players/7692833

Click on "Scoring", "Rebounds", "Misc" to see the stats. If you click on "Career Stats," you can see how much he has improved since last season when he only shot 41.5% from the field.

The announcer is correct that his biggest weakness right now is lack of 3-pt range. He has such a sweet-looking jumper, though, that I suspect he can extend it out over the next year. (If he doesn't, it's going to be tough for him to be an efficient star in his one year in college.)

His biggest strength stat-wise is his ability to get to the line and shoot 87.5% from there.

[Duke95]

Tatum is playing in the finals against Carter right now on ESPNU.

[gurufrisbee]

Welcome Jayson!!! We look forward to listening to you as a guest star on the DBR podcast in like a decade reflecting on your time as yet another Duke Blue Devil who won national titles and ACC POY awards with hilarious stories of Coach K.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Welcome Jayson!!! We look forward to listening to you as a guest star on the DBR podcast in like a decade reflecting on your time as yet another Duke Blue Devil who won national titles and ACC POY awards with hilarious stories of Coach K.

Can we make it two decades? DBR has been interviewing former Dukies after they finished with the NBA (Smith, Battier). I expect Jayson to have an illustrious career with the Boston Celtics :D

[gurufrisbee]

Can we make it two decades? DBR has been interviewing former Dukies after they finished with the NBA (Smith, Battier). I expect Jayson to have an illustrious career with the Boston Celtics :D

I didn't realize that was the rule. Absolutely. I just wanted to make sure it was more than five years from now so he would be done with his Duke time.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I didn't realize that was the rule. Absolutely. I just wanted to make sure it was more than five years from now so he would be done with his Duke time.

If Tatum is still at Duke in two years time, I'll permanently make my avatar Justin Bieber (only 3 months left of this awful avatar!)

But I like your optimism. I unfortunately just don't share it.

[OldPhiKap]

Nice composure at the halftime Interview in the championship game -- Duke talk about to start at the half.

[Class of '94]

So Justin and Theo will still be at UNC according to that trash talk to an 18 year old?

IMO, if Justin and Pinsoin are still at UNC (2 seasons from now) by the time Jayson comes to Duke as a Freshman, Carolina will really be in trouble in terms of recruiting and how that program is looked at in the eyes of the best recruits unless both go in the lottery. I could be wrong but I thought Pinson and Justin were supposed to be elite level talents that should only be in college for 2 years at most. If those two stay 3-4 years in college and go late first round or somewhere in the second round, State might leap-frog Carolina in recruiting.

[Class of '94]

For those of you with weaker constitutions, go to the indirect source: the IC Meltdown (https://twitter.com/icmeltdown) Twitter feed. Recent entries suggest that many of its members have landed on the fifth stage of grief: acceptance.

"I fully expect Giles, Tatum and smith to all be in a duke uniform in 2016 and in all honesty who can blame them" #unc #PutTheScissorsDown

"Well that's pretty demoralizing." #unc #tatum

"Capel is more in tune to the culture the young kids are living today. We just don't have that type of coach on our staff right now" #unc

"K is waxing Roy. Period. I will now listen to the crowd saying its the pending sanctions. Yada Yada Yada" #unc #Tatum

"we are no longer the better program. Duke has taken over and it makes me sick to my stomach" #unc

"Since Capel's return to d**k there recruiting has been great .. guess he & fats are working together" #Fats #unc

"USA Basketball is THE driving factor behind K's recruiting success right now" #NotTheFiveRings #unc

I bet anyone Roy thought Hubert Davis would be his "Jeff Capel" in terms of being a boost to recruiting and being able to better relate to recruits; but it doesn't appear to have worked out that way yet.

[BD80]

... I'll permanently make my avatar Justin Bieber (only 3 months left of this awful avatar!)

...


Ohhh. That explains a lot.

Kudos for having the courage to continue to post, although I admit I cringe each time I see the avatar. At first I thought it was Ellen DeGeneres.

[ChillinDuke]

Ohhh. That explains a lot.

Kudos for having the courage to continue to post, although I admit I cringe each time I see the avatar. At first I thought it was Ellen DeGeneres.

Wait. It's not Ellen DeGeneres?

- Chillin

[weezie]

This is some wonderful news indeed. Especially in the summer doldrums. Well done Coach K.

[Furniture]

I hadn't noticed it was Justin B. I had really thought it was a selfie.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I hadn't noticed it was Justin B. I had really thought it was a selfie.

Ouch.

[MChambers]

It was hard to reconcile your intelligent comments with your looks, put it that way.

[moonpie23]

I hadn't noticed it was Justin B. I had really thought it was a selfie.

dang, furniture........harsh...

[MaxAMillion]

I think this is great news. Tatum has some Luol Deng in his game. Of course Duke is now taking in a bunch of one and done players like UK. I guess one and done ain't so bad when they help your school win.

[Duvall]

I think this is great news. Tatum has some Luol Deng in his game. Of course Duke is now taking in a bunch of one and done players like UK. I guess one and done ain't so bad when they help your school win.

I mean, at this point "one and done" pretty much means "any top-15 recruit not playing for Roy Williams." So it's hard for Duke to avoid recruiting them.

[cspan37421]

Tatum has some Luol Deng in his game.

Interesting way to put it. #35, is that you?

[Edouble]

Interesting way to put it. #35, is that you?

Yeah, I was not about to touch that with a 10 foot pole.

[brevity]

Tatum has some Luol Deng in his game.


Interesting way to put it. #35, is that you?


Yeah, I was not about to touch that with a 10 foot pole.

I was going to say "I heard the same thing from a scout with the Atlanta Hawks, except he used very different words."

[Troublemaker]

Tatum's semifinal highlights and Duke announcement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00wwR-kw10M

[moonpie23]

smooth....

[gurufrisbee]

Of course Duke is now taking in a bunch of one and done players like UK. I guess one and done ain't so bad when they help your school win.

I think we've seen that the actual road to success in today's college basketball landscape is to find a combination of experienced upperclassmen and high level underclassmen talent.

2011 - experience in Kemba and Oriakhi, young talent in Lamb and Napier
2012 - experience in Miller (and some in sophs Jones and Lamb), young talent in Unibrow, Kidd-Gilchrist, Teague
2013 - experience in Siva, RSmith, Hancock, and Dieng, young talent in Harrell and Blackshear and Behanan
2014 - experience in Napier and Boatright, younger talent in Brimah and Calhoun and Daniels
2015 - experience in Cook and Jefferson, young talent in Okafor, T Jones, and Winslow

I don't think Duke will ever just look at all guys they think are likely one-and-done and look to reload every single season like Calipari does. I think most of next year's freshmen are not likely one-and-done guys. Of course, you never know for sure (either way).

[roywhite]

In the final 3 games for Tatum in the Peach Jam tournament, he went 33-35 from the foul line. His ability to drive, get to the line, and then convert is really impressive.

A comparison I haven't seen for Tatum is Corey Maggette, who at his best was versatile, athletic, and scored a ton of points at the free throw line (shot over 82% career FT in the NBA).

[bob blue devil]

I don't think Duke will ever just look at all guys they think are likely one-and-done and look to reload every single season like Calipari does. I think most of next year's freshmen are not likely one-and-done guys. Of course, you never know for sure (either way).

fwiw, kentucky brings in a player or 2 every year that doesn't project as 1-and-done. i don't see a big difference in commit rankings when we have a great class vs. when kentucky has a great class.

[duke blue brewcrew]

Welcome aboard Jayson Tatum! Now let the Giles speculation begin in earnest...should be fun!

[left_hook_lacey]

The national media starting to take notice also.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/how-duke-reclaimed-its-status-as-the-top-destination-for-elite-recruits-204841742.html

Could be a magical end to a career for Coach if this keeps up over the next few years.

[rsvman]

Woo-hoo!!!!!!

This is a totally awesome get! It's great to be a Dukie!

[Jim3k]

http://www.ksdk.com/story/sports/high-school/2015/11/11/jayson-tatum-signs-with-duke/75614952/

This will do it!

[neuro]

Dang. We have lost another recruit to a heated rival (from the link):

"Jayson Tatum made it official on Wednesday, he will play his college basketball at the University of Duke. "

[subzero02]

The University of Duke... sheesh. I don't know if it's harder to type or to say....

[TruBlu]

The University of Duke calls all the gets.

[camion]

That's THE University of Duke, if you please.

[Henderson]

By the power of ESPN3, I was able yesterday to watch Jayson Tatum and Chaminade play Huntington Prep.

Wow. 46 points in an overtime win.

I'd only seen highlight films of Tatum before, so watching him in a full game against an elite prep school team was a treat.

Jayson Tatum is really good.

In this context, he was a huge ball hog, putting up shots with no intention to pass. And (like everyone else in the game) he seemed to have no interest to play defense at all. Way too many contested fall away jumpers. On most possessions, he was demanding the ball at half-court then deciding how best to dazzle.

But he's really good. A lot of times his ball-hogging shot is a fade-away with multiple defenders, and you think, "Oh no..." Then the ball goes swish, and you just think, "He's playing for Duke next year."

He seemed like a pro player patronizing 9 other guys just for fun. Julius Erving? George Gervin? He'll have an interesting transition to make, playing within a team system, but this guy is NBA ready right now. We're gonna love us some Tatum.

If you haven't already, you gotta see this guy. ESPN3 has the free game replay.

[Bob Green]

Julius Erving? George Gervin?

That is some serious praise right there. I hope you're right. Actually, I just hope you are in the same neighborhood.

[Indoor66]

That is some serious praise right there. I hope you're right. Actually, I just hope you are in the same neighborhood.

I hope he wasn't riding in a hyperbole baloon! :o:p:cool:

[Pghdukie]

I wasn't a fan of Austin Rivers.

[cspan37421]

And (like everyone else in the game) he seemed to have no interest to play defense at all. Way too many contested fall away jumpers.

Wait a minute. If no one in the game had interest in playing defense, who was contesting the fall-away jumpers? Ted Valentine?

[JNort]

I wasn't a fan of Austin Rivers.

What does Rivers have to do with Tatum?

[cspan37421]

What does Rivers have to do with Tatum?

Did you read post #69?

[Indoor66]

Did you read post #69?

What does post 69 have to do with Rivers?

[NashvilleDevil]

What does post 69 have to do with Rivers?

Ball hog. The poster who said they didn't like Rivers appears to think that Tatum will be a ball stopper on offense the same way Rivers was on a team that really only had him as an option not a team, like next year, that will feature several options.

[JNort]

Did you read post #69?

Yeah you might should elaborate then. That post had no mention of Rivers or anything resembling him

[OldPhiKap]

I wasn't a fan of Austin Rivers.

http://youtu.be/UUk9-Rhz0YM

Neither is Tyler Hansbough..

[flyingdutchdevil]

http://youtu.be/UUk9-Rhz0YM

Neither is Tyler Hansbough..

You mean Zeller? But Hansbrough probably isn't a fan either.

[Indoor66]

You mean Zeller? But Hansbrough probably isn't a fan either.

A Tyler here, a Tyler there. Pretty soon you might come up with a Student Athlete.

[flyingdutchdevil]

A Tyler here, a Tyler there. Pretty soon you might come up with a Student Athlete.

Might being he operative word, of course. ;)

I liked Zeller, however. Seemed like a good dude. Although Plumlee v Zeller always felt a little like Hatfields v McCoys. There is only so much space in Indiana for 7-footers...

[MCFinARL]

A Tyler here, a Tyler there. Pretty soon you might come up with a Student Athlete.

Well, there was a student athlete named Tyler who probably liked Austin Rivers just fine on Feb. 8, 2012--think his last name was Thornton (though he has sometimes been referred to as Thorton....)

[OldPhiKap]

You mean Zeller? But Hansbrough probably isn't a fan either.

Thanks. I get them confused, except one didn't walk as much.

[BLPOG]

Thanks. I get them confused, except one didn't walk as much.

Not to distract from Jayson Tatum, but while we're on the subject of walking this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRZSru9uJfc) never gets old.

[elvis14]

I wasn't a fan of Austin Rivers.

I was. He had "Duke" on the front of his jersey. He did what Coach K asked him to do. And that shot in Three Rivers Stadium over Zeller still makes me smile.

Looking forward to seeing Tatum play for Duke next year. I think you'll find that a lot of big time HS players are ball hogs...it's hard not to be when you're better than the other 9 guys on the floor.

[Ichabod Drain]

Watching Tatum more recently he reminds me a lot of Paul George. I honestly think he might be the best player in the class.

[CDu]

I'm very excited about next year's team. At the very least, we should be looking at:

PGs: Thornton and Jackson
Wings: Tatum, Jackson, Jones, and Kennard
PFs: Giles, Jeter, and Tatum
Cs: Jeter, Obi, and Vrankovic

And that's only if (a) we get no other big men and (b) we lose Ingram and Allen to the draft. It's a truly stellar mix of talent. The one question will be at C, but I suspect that by year 2 Jeter will be ready to be a major minutes contributor.

Obviously this year's team is exciting too (especially once Jefferson returns), but man does next year's team look good on paper.

[subzero02]

Watching Tatum more recently he reminds me a lot of Paul George. I honestly think he might be the best player in the class.

Giles might be the too rated player in the class but I am as equally excited about Tatum and Jackson.

[MChambers]

Several folks have compared Mr. DeLaurier to Lance Thomas. Not clear how much he'll play next year, but you never know.

[CDu]

Several folks have compared Mr. DeLaurier to Lance Thomas. Not clear how much he'll play next year, but you never know.

My apologies (as one who forgot him)! Even further depth in the frontcourt next year!

[Indoor66]

Several folks have compared Mr. DeLaurier to Lance Thomas. Not clear how much he'll play next year, but you never know.

I hope that is Knick's Lance rather than freshman Lance - though either or both is welcome to Duke. :D:cool:

[duke74]

In this context, he was a huge ball hog, putting up shots with no intention to pass. And (like everyone else in the game) he seemed to have no interest to play defense at all. Way too many contested fall away jumpers. On most possessions, he was demanding the ball at half-court then deciding how best to dazzle.

But he's really good. A lot of times his ball-hogging shot is a fade-away with multiple defenders, and you think, "Oh no..." Then the ball goes swish, and you just think, "He's playing for Duke next year."

He seemed like a pro player patronizing 9 other guys just for fun. Julius Erving? George Gervin? He'll have an interesting transition to make, playing within a team system, but this guy is NBA ready right now. We're gonna love us some Tatum.

If you haven't already, you gotta see this guy. ESPN3 has the free game replay.c

I watched the game today. Not the expert that so many here are, but he looked very smooth to me. Seemed to glide to the basket. A few shots (turnarounds) hit, but a number of open looks didn't.

I will say though, that it did look like he had court awareness, and found teammates with passes for baskets. I didn't see the stats so don't know how many assets he had. I suspect he's told to shoot as much as he can by the coaches.

The kid from HP that is going to Michigan State, Bridges (?), also looked really good.

[JPtheGame]

I'm very excited about next year's team. At the very least, we should be looking at:

PGs: Thornton and Jackson
Wings: Tatum, Jackson, Jones, and Kennard
PFs: Giles, Jeter, and Tatum
Cs: Jeter, Obi, and Vrankovic

And that's only if (a) we get no other big men and (b) we lose Ingram and Allen to the draft. It's a truly stellar mix of talent. The one question will be at C, but I suspect that by year 2 Jeter will be ready to be a major minutes contributor.

Obviously this year's team is exciting too (especially once Jefferson returns), but man does next year's team look good on paper.

Tatum at the 4? Maybe if it's the best free throw shooters lineup to ice it.
Now you might see Jefferson at the 4 next year....just sayin.

[Troublemaker]

Tatum at the 4? Maybe if it's the best free throw shooters lineup to ice it.
Now you might see Jefferson at the 4 next year...just sayin.

Tatum's probably going to arrive at Duke 6'8"-220ish. Yeah, he'll play some 4.

[CDu]

Tatum at the 4? Maybe if it's the best free throw shooters lineup to ice it.
Now you might see Jefferson at the 4 next year...just sayin.

Coach K just won a championship with a 6'6" SF playing PF. I don't think he will hesitate to play a 6'8" guy there. Especially with the guard/wing depth we will have.

[JNort]

I was. He had "Duke" on the front of his jersey. He did what Coach K asked him to do. And that shot in Three Rivers Stadium over Zeller still makes me smile.

Looking forward to seeing Tatum play for Duke next year. I think you'll find that a lot of big time HS players are ball hogs...it's hard not to be when you're better than the other 9 guys on the floor.

Yeah not to mention Rivers was probably the only guy on that team that knew what defense was. Also the only guy who could penetrate and had the most on his shoulders week in and week out. Tatum will be in a much better situation and asked to do a whole lot less

[cspan37421]

Yeah not to mention Rivers was probably the only guy on that team that knew what defense was.

I beg to differ. Check the stats and I think you'll find that's simply not the case. And it's not just the stats. I saw many games on TV that year and some in person, and IMO your assertion does not hold water. With all due respect.

[JNort]

I beg to differ. Check the stats and I think you'll find that's simply not the case. And it's not just the stats. I saw many games on TV that year and some in person, and IMO your assertion does not hold water. With all due respect.

Where are you gettin/looking at your stats? I too saw them in person that year as well as on tv (didn't miss a game).

[gep]

Coach K just won a championship with a 6'6" SF playing PF. I don't think he will hesitate to play a 6'8" guy there. Especially with the guard/wing depth we will have.

But he was a built like a "man" in there...:cool: And yes... probably a 6'8" guy can get time at the 4... maybe "should", given the guard/wing depth???

[JNort]

But he was a built like a "man" in there...:cool: And yes... probably a 6'8" guy can get time at the 4... maybe "should", given the guard/wing depth???

Considering Ingram has already played some at the 4 I think it is safe to assume Tatum will as well

[cspan37421]

Where are you gettin/looking at your stats? I too saw them in person that year as well as on tv (didn't miss a game).

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/duke/2012.html

According to those figures, on balance, Seth Curry was no worse at defense (win shares, plus minus ... a couple others under advanced stats). And there were 3 bigs who were better at defense (MP1, MP2, and Kelly). But we're off topic and probably should wrap this up and get back to Jayson Tatum. It'll be interesting to see if his tendencies are based on coaches' instructions and/or the cast around him. Will he embrace moving the ball, playing defense, etc.

It is amazing what one-and-done has done to Duke in terms of defensive philosophy. I'm guessing Jim Boeheim deserves some credit for what K absorbed about zone D via his their time on the USMNT staff.

[Ichabod Drain]

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/duke/2012.html

According to those figures, on balance, Seth Curry was no worse at defense (win shares, plus minus ... a couple others under advanced stats). And there were 3 bigs who were better at defense (MP1, MP2, and Kelly). But we're off topic and probably should wrap this up and get back to Jayson Tatum. It'll be interesting to see if his tendencies are based on coaches' instructions and/or the cast around him. Will he embrace moving the ball, playing defense, etc.

It is amazing what one-and-done has done to Duke in terms of defensive philosophy. I'm guessing Jim Boeheim deserves some credit for what K absorbed about zone D via his their time on the USMNT staff.

Tatum has played multiple years now for USA basketball and has shown no signs of trouble stepping into a team role there, sharing the ball and playing defense. I have no doubts he will do the same next year and be one of the best players in the country.

[JPtheGame]

Tatum's probably going to arrive at Duke 6'8"-220ish. Yeah, he'll play some 4.

That line of thinking would have kevin Durant playing center and Magic Johnson would never get to bring the ball up.
What's the young mans skill set/comfort level?

[JPtheGame]

Considering Ingram has already played some at the 4 I think it is safe to assume Tatum will as well

Look at what Ingram has around him. That has more to do will his time at the 4 than anything else.

[DukieTiger]

Look at what Ingram has around him. That has more to do will his time at the 4 than anything else.

Well, that and Coach K's career coaching guys like Grant Hill, Shane Battier, Mike Dunleavy, Kyle Singler, Jabari Parker, Justise Winslow...

[Troublemaker]

By the power of ESPN3, I was able yesterday to watch Jayson Tatum and Chaminade play Huntington Prep.

Wow. 46 points in an overtime win.

I'd only seen highlight films of Tatum before, so watching him in a full game against an elite prep school team was a treat.

Jayson Tatum is really good.

In this context, he was a huge ball hog, putting up shots with no intention to pass. And (like everyone else in the game) he seemed to have no interest to play defense at all. Way too many contested fall away jumpers. On most possessions, he was demanding the ball at half-court then deciding how best to dazzle.

But he's really good. A lot of times his ball-hogging shot is a fade-away with multiple defenders, and you think, "Oh no..." Then the ball goes swish, and you just think, "He's playing for Duke next year."

He seemed like a pro player patronizing 9 other guys just for fun. Julius Erving? George Gervin? He'll have an interesting transition to make, playing within a team system, but this guy is NBA ready right now. We're gonna love us some Tatum.

If you haven't already, you gotta see this guy. ESPN3 has the free game replay.

Finally some youtube highlights of this game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etPHekOeqnc

[CDu]

That line of thinking would have kevin Durant playing center and Magic Johnson would never get to bring the ball up.
What's the young mans skill set/comfort level?

Kevin Durant played PF in his one year at Texas. Shane Battier played PF most of his college career. Justise Winslow played PF. So did Singler, Dunleavy, Hill, and others.

Tatum spending time at the PF spot won't hinder his ability to do other things. Notice that Ingram defending the opposing PF hasn't changed how he plays offense at all.

The guy will play some PF next year, simply because we are going to have so many good guard/wing players that we'll be best off as a team with 4 of them on the floor at times. And given that he's the biggest of the wings, that will put him at PF for some of the game.

[DukeFanSince1990]

Finally some youtube highlights of this game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etPHekOeqnc

That fadeaway! Impressive.

[phaedrus]

Finally some youtube highlights of this game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etPHekOeqnc

So that's the second-best guy we're bringing in?

[whereinthehellami]

Smooth. High IQ, will really excel in the Duke system with other high IQ kind of guys.

[Ichabod Drain]

So that's the second-best guy we're bringing in?

Possibly, I think he might be the best though.

[CDu]

Possibly, I think he might be the best though.

Especially if it takes a while for Giles to regain his form. He should be ready by the early Fall, but you never know. And the rehab process means he likely won't get much (if any) run in the summer, so he'll be starting from a bit behind the curve.

I mean, I think Giles will still be really good next year anyway; just that Tatum might be a bit better next year, so not in any way a condemnation of Giles.

[kAzE]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to feel comfortable with this lineup for next year:

C: Harry Giles
PF: Jayson Tatum
SF: Matt Jones
SG: Grayson Allen/Luke Kennard
PG: Derryck Thornton

I've been pretty adamant that Jeter would be the favorite to start next year at the 4, but it's not looking likely at this point with his current level of development and the amount of talent we're projected to have next year. Even if Grayson goes pro (which I think is actually becoming more and more likely, given his penchant for putting himself in harm's way, and his awesome level of play thus far), Luke is already primed to step into that role, and we would likely be just fine.

Given how successful we've been with a skilled (but undersized) forward at the 4 these past 2 years (and really even back to Jabari), I don't see any reason to not play Jayson extensively at the 4. It allows us to put our 5 best players on the floor at the same time, and will be almost impossible to guard. The amount of time he plays the 4 will be dependent on his ability to defend that position, but at this point, the team looks great defensively at least on paper, and having 4/5 highly efficient scorers on the floor at the same time seems too good to pass up.

Basketball in general seems to be shifting towards a smaller meta game with a skilled power forward who can shoot and make plays. I credit guys like Draymond Green and Blake Griffin for really changing the way everyone thinks about how power forwards are supposed to play basketball. Very few teams in the the NBA play 2 traditional back to the basket bigs most of the time now. It's too difficult to defend teams who are playing more skilled and mobile guys at the 4 with that kind of lineup. I think this approach has already started to become more prevalent in college as well. We obviously did quite well last year with a 6'6" power forward who could handle and shoot the ball.

[Indoor66]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to feel comfortable with this lineup for next year:

C: Harry Giles
PF: Jayson Tatum
SF: Matt Jones
SG: Grayson Allen/Luke Kennard
PG: Derryck Thornton

I've been pretty adamant that Jeter would be the favorite to start next year at the 4, but it's not looking likely at this point with his current level of development and the amount of talent we're projected to have next year. Even if Grayson goes pro (which I think is actually becoming more and more likely, given his penchant for putting himself in harm's way, and his awesome level of play thus far), Luke is already primed to step into that role, and we would likely be just fine.

Given how successful we've been with a skilled (but undersized) forward at the 4 these past 2 years (and really even back to Jabari), I don't see any reason to not play Jayson extensively at the 4. It allows us to put our 5 best players on the floor at the same time, and will be almost impossible to guard. The amount of time he plays the 4 will be dependent on his ability to defend that position, but at this point, the team looks great defensively at least on paper, and having 4/5 highly efficient scorers on the floor at the same time seems too good to pass up.

Basketball in general seems to be shifting towards a smaller meta game with a skilled power forward who can shoot and make plays. I credit guys like Draymond Green and Blake Griffin for really changing the way everyone thinks about how power forwards are supposed to play basketball.

IMO it is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to soon to try to place Jeter in a box for next year. The kid has some chops and will definitely improve over the balance of this hear. He has already improved. Confidence takes a base to build on. He is building a strong base right now. Sell him short at your peril. :cool:

[kAzE]

IMO it is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to soon to try to place Jeter in a box for next year. The kid has some chops and will definitely improve over the balance of this hear. He has already improved. Confidence takes a base to build on. He is building a strong base right now. Sell him short at your peril. :cool:

I'm not selling him short, I think he has a ton of potential. He could absolutely be better than Amile by the time he's a Junior/Senior. I've thought about this a lot, and it comes down to: Is he going to be a top 6 player on the team next year? Even if he improves dramatically, I don't think that's going to be the case. He MIGHT crack the top 5 if Grayson goes pro and he somehow passes Derryck, but that doesn't seem likely. Derryck seems to be a lock to start at point guard next year, which means if Chase starts, we're sending two guys from this group: Matt/Grayson/Luke to the bench. No WAY that happens if Tatum can hold his own at the 4. And Coach K does like to put his best 5 guys out there whenever possible.

[Indoor66]

Well, is he going to be a top 6 player on the team next year? Even if he improves dramatically, I don't think that's going to be the case. He MIGHT crack the top 5 if Grayson goes pro and he somehow passes Derryck, but that doesn't seem likely. And Coach K does like to put his best 5 guys out there whenever possible.

Don't let the recency bug bite you. :D:cool:

[whereinthehellami]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to feel comfortable with this lineup for next year:

C: Harry Giles
PF: Jayson Tatum
SF: Matt Jones
SG: Grayson Allen/Luke Kennard
PG: Derryck Thornton

I've been pretty adamant that Jeter would be the favorite to start next year at the 4, but it's not looking likely at this point with his current level of development and the amount of talent we're projected to have next year. Even if Grayson goes pro (which I think is actually becoming more and more likely, given his penchant for putting himself in harm's way, and his awesome level of play thus far), Luke is already primed to step into that role, and we would likely be just fine.

The above lineup is what I'm thinking also. I don't think it matters how long Giles will have been back from rehab for. He starts day one. His combination of length, speed, and skills are plug and play.

Not trying to knock Jeter but at this point I don't see how much trajectory he could realistically gain to supplant anyone from the above lineup to start for next year. Now I think there are more than enough minutes for Jeter to earn off the bench for everyone to be satisfied. And i really hope that Jeter continues to grow to provide that kind of depth.

I'm assuming that Ingram and Allen are in the NBA next year, so Luke would play the open slot. If Jeter continues to grow and Jackson comes in with his skills and confidence intact than that would be a really strong 7 player rotation.

[FerryFor50]

The above lineup is what I'm thinking also. I don't think it matters how long Giles will have been back from rehab for. He starts day one. His combination of length, speed, and skills are plug and play.

Not trying to knock Jeter but at this point I don't see how much trajectory he could realistically gain to supplant anyone from the above lineup to start for next year. Now I think there are more than enough minutes for Jeter to earn off the bench for everyone to be satisfied. And i really hope that Jeter continues to grow to provide that kind of depth.

I'm assuming that Ingram and Allen are in the NBA next year, so Luke would play the open slot. If Jeter continues to grow and Jackson comes in with his skills and confidence intact than that would be a really strong 7 player rotation.

Yea, as talented as Jeter likely is, he's not Giles or Tatum. And Jones will be a very important senior leader that has scoring chops.

Jeter will likely be #7 off the bench, after Kennard or Allen.

[BD80]

Yea, as talented as Jeter likely is, he's not Giles or Tatum. And Jones will be a very important senior leader that has scoring chops.

Jeter will likely be #7 off the bench, after Kennard or Allen.

Grayson starts if he's here. Period.

If Jeter can prove to be a rim protector and a communicator on defense, he will play. Giles and Tatum have the type of Team USA experience which leads me to believe they will be sufficient defenders from the get-go, but Tatum could supplant Jones, if not in the starting line-up, then in minutes.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to feel comfortable with this lineup for next year:

C: Harry Giles
PF: Jayson Tatum
SF: Matt Jones
SG: Grayson Allen/Luke Kennard
PG: Derryck Thornton


What about Frank Jackson?

[fraggler]

What about Frank Jackson?

Frank Jackson looks more like an instant offense off the bench kind of guy based on admittedly highlight oriented videos. I think by the end of this season, Derryck will be a fine point guard and likely be a better option at the start of next season.

[JohnJ]

I am seeing Chaminade and Jayson Tatum playing DeMatha on Jan. 18th at 11am EST on ESPNU.

[COYS]

Yea, as talented as Jeter likely is, he's not Giles or Tatum. And Jones will be a very important senior leader that has scoring chops.

Jeter will likely be #7 off the bench, after Kennard or Allen.

Assuming all goes well with Harry and his rehab, Jayson and Harry aren't just the two best recruits in the country, they are quite possibly going to be the first two picks in the NBA draft! Many players would end up playing behind these guys. Jayson has apparently developed three point range on his jumper (which is a great sign) and Harry has enough of a jumper that he's not glued to the block, necessarily. Still, if Grayson stays, I predict that our talent on the wings combined with the benefit of opening up the lane for Harry to operate and for Jayson/Grayson/Luke to drive will mean that we will see a lot of time with the 6-10 Harry manning center. I think Chase will get time, absolutely for certain. It seems right now he'll be the third big with Harry and Jayson. I would also bet that he'll earn more time as the third big than he has so far this season. But, while it IS admittedly too early to get into the nitty-gritty of rotation and projects for next season, the majority of the scenarios, in my eyes, point to Giles being our starting C and Jayson our starting PF.

Our top 6 players (in no particular order) will likely be:

Harry
Jayson
Grayson
Luke
Matt
Derryck

To fit into what will probably be a 7.5 man rotation, Chase will need to prove that he's more valuable than Frank Jackson, meaning K opts to play a bigger lineup with Chase at C alongside Giles and/or Tatum for some stretches. Still, by all accounts, Frank Jackson won't give up a spot in the rotation that easily. His ranking just outside the top 10 in what is projected to be one of the strongest HS classes means that he could very easily force his way onto the court, a la freshman Rasheed and freshman Justise, who were both similarly ranked. Quite simply, next year's team is going to be very talented. Just because Chase might end up as the 8th man again doesn't actually mean he's not progressing or improving. He could improve astronomically and STILL play as the 7th or 8th man simply because the top 6/7 are so talented and experienced.

[CDu]

Assuming all goes well with Harry and his rehab, Jayson and Harry aren't just the two best recruits in the country, they are quite possibly going to be the first two picks in the NBA draft! Many players would end up playing behind these guys. Jayson has apparently developed three point range on his jumper (which is a great sign) and Harry has enough of a jumper that he's not glued to the block, necessarily. Still, if Grayson stays, I predict that our talent on the wings combined with the benefit of opening up the lane for Harry to operate and for Jayson/Grayson/Luke to drive will mean that we will see a lot of time with the 6-10 Harry manning center. I think Chase will get time, absolutely for certain. It seems right now he'll be the third big with Harry and Jayson. I would also bet that he'll earn more time as the third big than he has so far this season. But, while it IS admittedly too early to get into the nitty-gritty of rotation and projects for next season, the majority of the scenarios, in my eyes, point to Giles being our starting C and Jayson our starting PF.

Our top 6 players (in no particular order) will likely be:

Harry
Jayson
Grayson
Luke
Matt
Derryck

To fit into what will probably be a 7.5 man rotation, Chase will need to prove that he's more valuable than Frank Jackson, meaning K opts to play a bigger lineup with Chase at C alongside Giles and/or Tatum for some stretches. Still, by all accounts, Frank Jackson won't give up a spot in the rotation that easily. His ranking just outside the top 10 in what is projected to be one of the strongest HS classes means that he could very easily force his way onto the court, a la freshman Rasheed and freshman Justise, who were both similarly ranked. Quite simply, next year's team is going to be very talented. Just because Chase might end up as the 8th man again doesn't actually mean he's not progressing or improving. He could improve astronomically and STILL play as the 7th or 8th man simply because the top 6/7 are so talented and experienced.

First, I suspect that Allen is a threat to go pro. Prior to the season, I was skeptical. But the way he is playing right now, he probably does have a real shot at the lottery.

But even if he stays, I don't think Jeter is in competition with Jackson for minutes. He will be, at the very least, the third "big" behind Giles and Tatum. I don't think we're going to play a rotation without a third big, especially when the two "bigs" in front of him include two freshmen, one of whom is a combo forward. Maybe that only means 10-15 mpg backing up both Giles and Tatum, but my guess is that it is 15-20 mpg.

Now, if Allen DOES stay, we have quite a lot of players on the perimeter. Allen, Kennard, Jackson, Thornton, and Jones for three positions. One of those guys will get a bit short-changed, likely in the 10-15 mpg range. I honestly don't know who that would be, though. If Allen leaves early, we will have those four rotating among the three perimeter spots with Tatum splitting time between the 3 and 4, Jeter getting a few more minutes, and spot minutes available for whomever of Obi/Delaurier/Vrankovic establishes himself as the 4th big.

[FerryFor50]

First, I suspect that Allen is a threat to go pro. Prior to the season, I was skeptical. But the way he is playing right now, he probably does have a real shot at the lottery.

But even if he stays, I don't think Jeter is in competition with Jackson for minutes. He will be, at the very least, the third "big" behind Giles and Tatum. I don't think we're going to play a rotation without a third big, especially when the two "bigs" in front of him include two freshmen, one of whom is a combo forward. Maybe that only means 10-15 mpg backing up both Giles and Tatum, but my guess is that it is 15-20 mpg.

Now, if Allen DOES stay, we have quite a lot of players on the perimeter. Allen, Kennard, Jackson, Thornton, and Jones for three positions. One of those guys will get a bit short-changed, likely in the 10-15 mpg range. I honestly don't know who that would be, though. If Allen leaves early, we will have those four rotating among the three perimeter spots with Tatum splitting time between the 3 and 4, Jeter getting a few more minutes, and spot minutes available for whomever of Obi/Delaurier/Vrankovic establishes himself as the 4th big.

Don't forget Justin Robinson in the mix for minutes at the 3/4/5 spots. ;)

[COYS]

But even if he stays, I don't think Jeter is in competition with Jackson for minutes. He will be, at the very least, the third "big" behind Giles and Tatum. I don't think we're going to play a rotation without a third big, especially when the two "bigs" in front of him include two freshmen, one of whom is a combo forward. Maybe that only means 10-15 mpg backing up both Giles and Tatum, but my guess is that it is 15-20 mpg.


You only have to go back to last year to see a situation in which K was perfectly comfortable moving an experienced forward to the bench in favor of starting a 6-6 freshman combo forward alongside a freshman C. Given that junior Amile had already proven more than sophomore Jeter will have proven by this time, next year, I don't think this is unlikely at all. But ultimately, I think we agree. I am certain that Jeter will be the third big next year. The question I have is whether or not he will be the 7th man or the 8th man. In this scenario with Grayson returning, I see no way the top six players aren't Jayson, Harry, and our four returning guards. If Frank Jackson comes in and tears it up , I could absolutely see us playing Harry and the guards for some stretches, especially since Luke and Grayson are strong rebounding guards. We've done that this season for stretches since Amile's injury when Brandon has been sitting (although he admittedly hasn't done much of that, recently). Chase will still get time as the third big and I still bet he'll get more minutes than this season. But he still could be our 8th highest earner of mpg.

[JPtheGame]

Grayson is currently projected to go 23rd in the 2017 draft. Stop the early entry talk. He has no position at the next level.
Unless he hits a growth spurt, he's probably a four year guy and very likely the next jersey going in the rafters.

[Troublemaker]

Grayson is currently projected to go 23rd in the 2017 draft. Stop the early entry talk. He has no position at the next level.
Unless he hits a growth spurt, he's probably a four year guy and very likely the next jersey going in the rafters.

Many players would be fine going 23rd.

Grayson leaving is a legitimate possibility.

[JPtheGame]

As far as pg goes, frank Jackson is an elite athlete and might force a timeshare based on his ability to be disruptive defensively. Nice problem to have

[JPtheGame]

Many players would be fine going 23rd.

Grayson leaving is a legitimate possibility.

2017 draft

[CDu]

You only have to go back to last year to see a situation in which K was perfectly comfortable moving an experienced forward to the bench in favor of starting a 6-6 freshman combo forward alongside a freshman C. Given that junior Amile had already proven more than sophomore Jeter will have proven by this time, next year, I don't think this is unlikely at all. But ultimately, I think we agree. I am certain that Jeter will be the third big next year. The question I have is whether or not he will be the 7th man or the 8th man. In this scenario with Grayson returning, I see no way the top six players aren't Jayson, Harry, and our four returning guards. If Frank Jackson comes in and tears it up , I could absolutely see us playing Harry and the guards for some stretches, especially since Luke and Grayson are strong rebounding guards. We've done that this season for stretches since Amile's injury when Brandon has been sitting (although he admittedly hasn't done much of that, recently). Chase will still get time as the third big and I still bet he'll get more minutes than this season. But he still could be our 8th highest earner of mpg.

I didn't say Jeter would start over Tatum or Giles. I don't think he will do so. I said Coach K wouldn't have a rotation with just 2 bigs, both of whom are frosh. Last year, Coach K had 2 veteran bigs in the rotation behind those two frosh.

Jeter might very well finish 8th in minutes depending on on how perimieter minutes get divied up. But he will be a full member of the rotation and a double-digit minutes guy next year unless one of our other three bigs outplays him. If that means an 8-man rotation like last year, so be it. My point was simply that he would not be competing with Jackson or any guards for minutes. There will be at least 15-20 minutes available up front behind Tatum and Giles, and I expect him to get most of those. More specifically, I don't see Giles being a 35+ mpg guy as a frosh (freshmen centers just don't do that at Duke), and I don't see Tatum playing C. Basically, Jeter will have at least his current role, but will log more minutes in that role because Giles won't be as ready to stay on the floor for 35 minutes like Plumlee has been since Jefferson went down.

[rhynelander]

Grayson is currently projected to go 23rd in the 2017 draft. Stop the early entry talk. He has no position at the next level.
Unless he hits a growth spurt, he's probably a four year guy and very likely the next jersey going in the rafters.

Well Draftexpress has him there, they also haven't updated their profile of Grayson in a while.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2016/

NBAdraft.net on the other hand has him going 14 in 2016. That means he's just outside the lottery and gone next year.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

I'm happy with him leaving after a productive season here this year if he's close to the lottery, also I'm happy with your scenario where his jersey hangs in Cameron forever.

[Pghdukie]

While distribution of next year's minutes, line-up, etc, No one seems to have taken into consideration that HG has had knee problems and hasn't played in quite some time. He possibly may need strength/conditioning training and will be brought along slowly. Just my .2 cents worth

[fraggler]

Well Draftexpress has him there, they also haven't updated their profile of Grayson in a while.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2016/

NBAdraft.net on the other hand has him going 14 in 2016. That means he's just outside the lottery and gone next year.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

I'm happy with him leaving after a productive season here this year if he's close to the lottery, also I'm happy with your scenario where his jersey hangs in Cameron forever.

The lottery is the first 14 picks, so definitely gone if that was the criteria.

[COYS]

Basically, Jeter will have at least his current role, but will log more minutes in that role because Giles won't be as ready to stay on the floor for 35 minutes like Plumlee has been since Jefferson went down.

I think you're talking past me again. Or maybe I just got confused since you quoted my post in your original response. But we completely agree. In fact, I said exactly what you said here in my last post. Jeter will be the third big and play more minutes than he is, currently. However, whether or not he jumps to 7th man or stays as 8th man depends on whether or not he proves more effective than Frank Jackson, otherwise, just like this year, for some of those minutes when Jayson isn't in, we'll go with four guards around Harry. That's the competition for minutes between Chase and Frank that I predict.

[BD80]

Grayson is currently projected to go 23rd in the 2017 draft. Stop the early entry talk. He has no position at the next level.
Unless he hits a growth spurt, he's probably a four year guy and very likely the next jersey going in the rafters.

What if he has a run in the semi-final and championship games similar to last year?

[westwall]

What if he has a run in the semi-final and championship games similar to last year?

And, what if, bearing in mind that Duke was always Grayson's 'dream school', that he wants to be the first Dukie (Grant didn't quite make it) to add a third National Championship to his first two?? (Very cool!)

[gep]

And as his "dream school"... have his number in the rafters. :cool:

[JPtheGame]

What if he has a run in the semi-final and championship games similar to last year?

Will that make him taller? If no, then he's coming back.
Draftexpress updated their mocks on jan5 and they are always very close to actual so Im sticking with that.

I love grayson. Nothing but respect for how he plays and K doesnt have number 5 without him. He's just a tweener and those guys slip in drafts and dont get year after year to prove they should stay. There are worse things than hanging around durham for 4 years, winning a title or two, seeing your name up in the rafters and then trying to make work as a contributor with an established franchise like SA.

If we are talking about next year, the focus should be on finding another big. Its the only thing missing.

[fraggler]

Will that make him taller? If no, then he's coming back.
Draftexpress updated their mocks on jan5 and they are always very close to actual so Im sticking with that.

I love grayson. Nothing but respect for how he plays and K doesnt have number 5 without him. He's just a tweener and those guys slip in drafts and dont get year after year to prove they should stay. There are worse things than hanging around durham for 4 years, winning a title or two, seeing your name up in the rafters and then trying to make work as a contributor with an established franchise like SA.

If we are talking about next year, the focus should be on finding another big. Its the only thing missing.

Draftexpress has fallen behind in their real time tracking of players. They only recently updated their stats for players from last season and there was barely any movement reflective of play this season. NBAdraft has been in the game longer and has been just as good as Draftexpress (as in no one is very good at predicting what some franchises are going to do), and he is a lottery pick this year. Pretty huge gap in assessment. I don't think he is ready, as he needs more craftiness to his game to compensate for his tweener status, but he is NBA solid in nearly every other facet of the game. Plus, and I think this is why he gets drafted, he is a motherf**ker to steal from Doug Collins. He has the kind of fire to keep improving, and even if he doesn't his effort and existing skill set should get him some minutes. You go when the opportunity is highest. If he continues his play and the team makes a decent showing in the tourney, his stock will be at an all time high. If his goal is professional basketball, it would almost be irresponsible to not jump. Some people were saying if he had declared after the Championship game, he might have been drafted based on potential.

[Indoor66]

Draftexpress has fallen behind in their real time tracking of players. They only recently updated their stats for players from last season and there was barely any movement reflective of play this season. NBAdraft has been in the game longer and has been just as good as Draftexpress (as in no one is very good at predicting what some franchises are going to do), and he is a lottery pick this year. Pretty huge gap in assessment. I don't think he is ready, as he needs more craftiness to his game to compensate for his tweener status, but he is NBA solid in nearly every other facet of the game. Plus, and I think this is why he gets drafted, he is a motherf**ker to steal from Doug Collins. He has the kind of fire to keep improving, and even if he doesn't his effort and existing skill set should get him some minutes. You go when the opportunity is highest. If he continues his play and the team makes a decent showing in the tourney, his stock will be at an all time high. If his goal is professional basketball, it would almost be irresponsible to not jump. Some people were saying if he had declared after the Championship game, he might have been drafted based on potential.

Don't everyone get crazy about what I am about to say, just think a little. I see a lot of Dwayne Wade's game in Grayson. He does not have equal athleticism but he is, at an equal stage of development, a better shooter. Wade came into the league a mediocre shooter and has rounded his game by becoming one of the best pull up shooters in the game. He is still not great at the three - Grayson is better today than Wade today. Grayson has strong driving ability, has more than decent hops, has a super motor and, most importantly, is totally fearless. Grayson will play in the league for many years - he has enough of all the talents, has a superior motor and drive and plays very smart - not attempting to do what he can not due. He learns from his mistakes. Sell him short as your peril. Look at Justise...

[luburch]

Will that make him taller? If no, then he's coming back.
Draftexpress updated their mocks on jan5 and they are always very close to actual so Im sticking with that.

I love grayson. Nothing but respect for how he plays and K doesnt have number 5 without him. He's just a tweener and those guys slip in drafts and dont get year after year to prove they should stay. There are worse things than hanging around durham for 4 years, winning a title or two, seeing your name up in the rafters and then trying to make work as a contributor with an established franchise like SA.

If we are talking about next year, the focus should be on finding another big. Its the only thing missing.

DraftExpress doesn't have him listed, because as of now they believe he is coming back to school. Not because he isn't talented enough to go. DX tweeted something of this nature not too long ago.

[SupaDave]

Will that make him taller? If no, then he's coming back.

I love grayson. Nothing but respect for how he plays and K doesnt have number 5 without him. He's just a tweener and those guys slip in drafts and dont get year after year to prove they should stay. There are worse things than hanging around durham for 4 years, winning a title or two, seeing your name up in the rafters and then trying to make work as a contributor with an established franchise like SA.

This has Lance Thomas written all over it...

[yancem]

Will that make him taller? If no, then he's coming back.
Draftexpress updated their mocks on jan5 and they are always very close to actual so Im sticking with that.

I love grayson. Nothing but respect for how he plays and K doesnt have number 5 without him. He's just a tweener and those guys slip in drafts and dont get year after year to prove they should stay. There are worse things than hanging around durham for 4 years, winning a title or two, seeing your name up in the rafters and then trying to make work as a contributor with an established franchise like SA.

If we are talking about next year, the focus should be on finding another big. Its the only thing missing.

Well, Allen is as big or bigger (and certainly more athletic) than Redick or Langdon who were both lottery picks. Granted, they were both seniors and were considered the best shooters in their respective drafts (not to mention that Redick was national player of the year) but they were both tweeners with neither of them having the passing/play making or rebounding skills that Allen has.

[kAzE]

Well, Allen is as big or bigger (and certainly more athletic) than Redick or Langdon who were both lottery picks. Granted, they were both seniors and were considered the best shooters in their respective drafts (not to mention that Redick was national player of the year) but they were both tweeners with neither of them having the passing/play making or rebounding skills that Allen has.

I completely agree with these thoughts. He's obviously not the shooter that JJ is, but he has so much athleticism and his intangibles are through the roof. If he tighten up his ball handling just a bit, I think he could be considered a combo guard at the next level. I think his passing vision is pretty good. He's probably the best passer on this Duke team right now. Even Derryck's vision is not at the level of Grayson yet. There will often be very obvious passing opportunities on cuts or spot ups that Derryck will miss, while Grayson often makes plays that I didn't even see on TV.

I would also add that you will never, EVER have to tell Grayson Allen to play harder or give more effort. That is a skill, and Grayson is elite even for NBA standards in that regard. I believe if he keeps working on his shooting and STAYS HEALTHY (my biggest concern for him), he will be a solid rotation player and possibly a borderline starter for many years. My only other concern is whether or not he can defend NBA shooting guards. That will determine if he can be a legitimate starter in the league. But for all other purposes, Grayson Allen is going to have a career as a NBA player. There's no doubt that he is a first round talent in my opinion, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Coach K told him that his best option after this year is to go pro. Coach K court isn't getting any softer.

[Li_Duke]

ESPN has Grayson at #23 in their draft ranking (published yesterday). There's plenty of room for movement either way; it's a weak draft outside of the first few spots (Simmons, Ingram), and there is still 6 months to go. The criticism is that he's too small to play SG in the NBA, but lacks the skills to play PG. The 2017 draft will be stacked; so I think we'll either see him go early this year, or he'll stick around and likely be the next to get his jersey retired. I'm hoping he does the latter and picks up some PG skills along the way.

For all the talk about starting line-ups and whether Jeter is the 7th or 8th man next year, we're not quite done with recruiting this year. Bolden may still opt for Duke; I imagine he'll wait on his decision until he knows who is going pro. He probably projects similarly as Jeter, but netting a second promising center doubles the chance that one of them will be starting or will be high in next year's rotation.

[fraggler]

ESPN has Grayson at #23 in their draft ranking (published yesterday). There's plenty of room for movement either way; it's a weak draft outside of the first few spots (Simmons, Ingram), and there is still 6 months to go. The criticism is that he's too small to play SG in the NBA, but lacks the skills to play PG. The 2017 draft will be stacked; so I think we'll either see him go early this year, or he'll stick around and likely be the next to get his jersey retired. I'm hoping he does the latter and picks up some PG skills along the way.

For all the talk about starting line-ups and whether Jeter is the 7th or 8th man next year, we're not quite done with recruiting this year. Bolden may still opt for Duke; I imagine he'll wait on his decision until he knows who is going pro. He probably projects similarly as Jeter, but netting a second promising center doubles the chance that one of them will be starting or will be high in next year's rotation.

Assuming health and continued excellent play, I agree that he will go this year or stay 4 years.

[cspan37421]

Don't everyone get crazy about what I am about to say, just think a little. I see a lot of Dwayne Wade's game in Grayson. He does not have equal athleticism but he is, at an equal stage of development, a better shooter. Wade came into the league a mediocre shooter and has rounded his game by becoming one of the best pull up shooters in the game. He is still not great at the three - Grayson is better today than Wade today. Grayson has strong driving ability, has more than decent hops, has a super motor and, most importantly, is totally fearless. Grayson will play in the league for many years - he has enough of all the talents, has a superior motor and drive and plays very smart - not attempting to do what he can not due. He learns from his mistakes. Sell him short as your peril. Look at Justise...

OK, I'll bite.

How do you define athleticism? Because if I'm an opposing coach, I look at his game and find him alarmingly athletic. He soars for rebounds, blocks, and dunks. He dives for loose balls. He runs the break hard every time. What edge does Wade have in "athleticism", either now or at an equal stage of development, whichever you meant?

[sagegrouse]

Will that make him taller? If no, then he's coming back.
Draftexpress updated their mocks on jan5 and they are always very close to actual so Im sticking with that.

I love grayson. Nothing but respect for how he plays and K doesnt have number 5 without him. He's just a tweener and those guys slip in drafts and dont get year after year to prove they should stay. There are worse things than hanging around durham for 4 years, winning a title or two, seeing your name up in the rafters and then trying to make work as a contributor with an established franchise like SA.

If we are talking about next year, the focus should be on finding another big. Its the only thing missing.

I dunno, JP, but Grayson has hops, muscle, and an aggressive style of play. Sometimes those are more important than height. Moreover, he isn't small -- listed at 6-5, 205. I expect he'll play a long time in the NBA -- preferably starting with the 2019 season.

[SupaDave]

Grayson reminds me a lot of Dan Majerle - and saying that - he's gonna need to stay and build that body with his style of play.

[CDu]

OK, I'll bite.

How do you define athleticism? Because if I'm an opposing coach, I look at his game and find him alarmingly athletic. He soars for rebounds, blocks, and dunks. He dives for loose balls. He runs the break hard every time. What edge does Wade have in "athleticism", either now or at an equal stage of development, whichever you meant?

Yeah, I think Wade and Allen have somewhat similar athleticism. Well, had somewhat similar athleticism; Wade's body has broken down over the years, and he's not the same athlete he once was. Maybe Wade was a little better leaper (maybe). He was probably stronger. But what really differentiated Wade from Allen was the skills. Allen is developing in that regard, but Wade in college was just a better basketball player.

I'd love to see the college version of Wade in today's college game. He was just such a force, and that was back when you could foul the heck out of a dribbler without getting called for it.

But I agree - athleticism is probably not how I'd differentiate between a younger Wade and Allen.

[cato]

OK, I'll bite.

How do you define athleticism? Because if I'm an opposing coach, I look at his game and find him alarmingly athletic. He soars for rebounds, blocks, and dunks. He dives for loose balls. He runs the break hard every time. What edge does Wade have in "athleticism", either now or at an equal stage of development, whichever you meant?

"Alarmingly athletic." I like that.

If Grayson isn't athletic, then the word has lost all meaning. The young man changed the face of a national championship game with his athleticism. He's a beast, and proving it as the focal point of the offense.

Now, like a young D. Wade, he's putting his body on the line all game, every game. I sure hope he holds up.

[fraggler]

No one said Grayson wasn't athletic, but anyone who saw Wade play in his prime and has seen Grayson play now can easily tell that they aren't equals. Stylistically, they are a bit different too, as Grayson does indeed soar, while Wade was more explosive. Could simply be the difference between one and two legged jumping, but I feel the ability to stop and then explode in a different direction or straight up through contact is something Wade did better than nearly anyone else and that Grayson hasn't demonstrated yet. It is also something that I think would enable more success when playing against longer, more athletic players. Grayson is very much a straight line driver. So far, on the college level, there are few that can keep up or stop him. But that won't be the case in the pros. He will still be a good athlete by pro standards, but he will have to add a lot of nuance to his drives to excel at the next level. I don't doubt that he will get there. I am not going to short sell him at all, but I'm not going to start comparing him to Hall of Famers either.

[cspan37421]

Grayson reminds me a lot of Dan Majerle - and saying that - he's gonna need to stay and build that body with his style of play.

I think he's well on his way. He's developed some really big shoulders (the better to lower into a defender! Just kidding, don't want charges....)

[elvis14]

Yeah, I think Wade and Allen have somewhat similar athleticism. Well, had somewhat similar athleticism; Wade's body has broken down over the years, and he's not the same athlete he once was. Maybe Wade was a little better leaper (maybe). He was probably stronger. But what really differentiated Wade from Allen was the skills. Allen is developing in that regard, but Wade in college was just a better basketball player.

I'd love to see the college version of Wade in today's college game. He was just such a force, and that was back when you could foul the heck out of a dribbler without getting called for it.

But I agree - athleticism is probably not how I'd differentiate between a younger Wade and Allen.

I'm not a big Wade fan, something about that guy just makes me want him to get his shot blocked every time he shoots. I say that because.....you guys are selling Wade short. I love me some Grayson Allen but he is not the athlete (neither on the athleticism or skill side of the equation) that DWade was in his prime.

One thing to keep in mind about Grayson (and anyone considering the draft) is that if he can stay in the first round and just make a team (and continue to develop) he starts the clock to getting past this rookie contract and getting to the second contract (which is where the 'real' money is made).

[kAzE]

I think Grayson does have aspects of D-Wade's game, but Wade is significantly better in 3 aspects:

1. Ball handling/playmaking
2. Strength
3. Defense

Wade is a much better playmaker. His ball handling and passing skills allow for a team to run their offense through him as a primary option. Grayson will not be able to do that at the next level with his current level of skill. D-Wade is also MUCH stronger than Grayson. Grayson is a strapping young lad, but D-Wade's playing weight in his peak years was around 230 lbs (all muscle). He was an absolute beast. Grayson seems that way against college players, but he's at around 205 lbs currently, and he will get knocked silly if he keeps trying some of the drives he does at this level in the NBA. Lastly, D-Wade's defense was All-NBA good at the height of his powers. In my opinion, prior to his knee injuries, he was the #3 player in the world for several years, just behind LeBron and Kobe. That said, I'm still not his biggest fan . . . he's one of the biggest whiners/complainers/floppers out there and he has a long history of being a dirty player. Grayson is 1000% more likeable.

[Ichabod Drain]

I'm not sure how good of an NBA player Grayson will be but I'm pretty certain that he will be an NBA player. If he has a chance to get there this year he should try and make it as soon as possible.

Grayson is averaging 20.5 ppg, 5.3 rpg, and 3.6 apg as a sophmore. There are four players in the country putting up numbers like that in all categories. Two of those four are seniors and the other is Ben Simmons.

It's pretty ridiculous what he is doing this year and seems to be underrated by a lot of people.

[cato]

.D-Wade is also MUCH stronger than Grayson. Grayson is a strapping young lad, but D-Wade's playing weight in his peak years was around 230 lbs (all muscle). He was an absolute beast. Grayson seems that way against college players, but he's at around 205 lbs currently, and he will get knocked silly if he keeps trying some of the drives he does at this level in the NBA.

I can't find Wade's listed weight for this sophomore year, but here he is listed at 212 as a junior: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dwyane-wade-1.html

I don't think it is outrageous to think Grayson could add 10 pounds of lean mass in a year. More importantly, based on his age, he could get a lot stronger in the next few years.

At any rate, I'm not sure how we got into a direct comparison of Grayson's athleticism versus Wade's. I don't think anyone is suggesting that Grayson will end up as a top 5 NBA player. Merely that he could be athletic enough to play the 2 in today's NBA.

[English]

I think Grayson does have aspects of D-Wade's game, but Wade is significantly better in 3 aspects:

1. Ball handling/playmaking
2. Strength
3. Defense

Wade is a much better playmaker. His ball handling and passing skills allow for a team to run their offense through him as a primary option. Grayson will not be able to do that at the next level with his current level of skill. D-Wade is also MUCH stronger than Grayson. Grayson is a strapping young lad, but D-Wade's playing weight in his peak years was around 230 lbs (all muscle). He was an absolute beast. Grayson seems that way against college players, but he's at around 205 lbs currently, and he will get knocked silly if he keeps trying some of the drives he does at this level in the NBA. Lastly, D-Wade's defense was All-NBA good at the height of his powers. In my opinion, prior to his knee injuries, he was the #3 player in the world for several years, just behind LeBron and Kobe. That said, I'm still not his biggest fan . . . he's one of the biggest whiners/complainers/floppers out there and he has a long history of being a dirty player. Grayson is 1000% more likeable.

I agree with virtually everything you've laid out here, although I'm confused at what point this comparison morphed from an apples-to-apples comparison of DWade at the same stage of development and DWade at his prime, which was in his mid- to late-20s. From what I understand, Wade entered college later than most--he left after two years at Marquette, but he entered the NBA at age 22 (and definitely NBA-ready, immediately averaging between 16-17ppg and 4.5apg as a PG). However, Grayson is younger, less developed physically than Wade either when he entered the NBA or certainly at his prime. AT HIS PRIME, Wade definitely had both muscles and basketball skills that Grayson lacks now. However, it's unfair to argue that Grayson can't add bulk over the next 2-3 years, as well as honing his attacking style of play, that allows him to have a position/style/approach similar to Wade and bang with NBA 2-guards. If he entered the NBA at the same stage of life development, that would mean Grayson stays another two years at Duke and enters the League at 22yo.

Now, saying someone has a similar style and athleticism is NOT the same as suggesting Grayson will reach the heights of Wade's success. It's foolish to suggest that WRT a likely Hall of Famer and All-NBA SG. However, I don't think that's where the argument started--it started comparing Grayson's athleticism to that of Dwyane Wade (at least I think it did). I don't think it's too far-fetched, as long as we're talking about 20yo Grayson and 20yo Dwyane Wade.

Edit: Apparently Wade was ineligible to play his freshman year because of academic issues (HS grades/standardized test scores didn't meet NCAA requirements). It's unclear if he was allowed to practice with the team during this time, but I presume he was not.

[Indoor66]

OK, I'll bite.

How do you define athleticism? Because if I'm an opposing coach, I look at his game and find him alarmingly athletic. He soars for rebounds, blocks, and dunks. He dives for loose balls. He runs the break hard every time. What edge does Wade have in "athleticism", either now or at an equal stage of development, whichever you meant?

Wade can jump higher and is more agile. Both are alarmingly athletic - both with the same skill sets, but, IMO, Wade is a little quicker and can jump a little higher.

[NSDukeFan]

I agree with virtually everything you've laid out here, although I'm confused at what point this comparison morphed from an apples-to-apples comparison of DWade at the same stage of development and DWade at his prime, which was in his mid- to late-20s.

I am a bit confused how a welcome Jayson Tatum thread turned into a Grayson Allen vs. DWade (I was going to spell his first name but thought I would get it wrong) in his prime comparison. I'm not complaining though, as I often like thread tangents. Carry on.

[Indoor66]

I think Grayson does have aspects of D-Wade's game, but Wade is significantly better in 3 aspects:

1. Ball handling/playmaking
2. Strength
3. Defense

Wade is a much better playmaker. His ball handling and passing skills allow for a team to run their offense through him as a primary option. Grayson will not be able to do that at the next level with his current level of skill. D-Wade is also MUCH stronger than Grayson. Grayson is a strapping young lad, but D-Wade's playing weight in his peak years was around 230 lbs (all muscle). He was an absolute beast. Grayson seems that way against college players, but he's at around 205 lbs currently, and he will get knocked silly if he keeps trying some of the drives he does at this level in the NBA. Lastly, D-Wade's defense was All-NBA good at the height of his powers. In my opinion, prior to his knee injuries, he was the #3 player in the world for several years, just behind LeBron and Kobe. That said, I'm still not his biggest fan . . . he's one of the biggest whiners/complainers/floppers out there and he has a long history of being a dirty player. Grayson is 1000% more likeable.

You seem to be comparing mature man Wade with 19 year old Grayson. Take a look at Wade as a rookie. He was about the same size as Grayson (actually about an inch shorter). Wade also had a weak handle coming into the league and was a fair to poor jump shooter. Wade got better quickly, but Grayson starts out ahead of Wade in some areas. That said, Wade was freakishly quick off his feet and could jump out of the gym. Grayson does not have quite that level of athleticism. What Grayson does have, at this point, is better shooting skills than Wade had coming into the League.

[ChillinDuke]

I go back and forth on whether Grayson will be on campus next year to play with Young Mr. Tatum. On the one hand, Grayson seems to be playing at a level sufficiently high to deem him "above college." But when you look at his body type and skill set, I'm not yet convinced that he's a clear "NBA player." That's not to say that I would know better than others - I don't have a stellar track record at predicting this kind of stuff.

An additional unique nuance to this situation is the lack of depth in this coming NBA Draft. They have to pick someone. And so Grayson may actually have an attractive draft pick compared to, say, his same quality of play this year but in last year's draft.

So he may very well go. But I'm not so sure that he has a clear role in the NBA. His attention-commanding drives won't be as effective. His ability to finish won't be either. His shooting may translate, but he's no JJ as it stands. Obviously, he'll be able to improve upon his current skill level in all of these (and other) areas in the NBA.

Finally, his body type isn't a "slam dunk" NBA body type. He's listed at 6'5" on the Duke site. If that's generous, as many listings have supposedly been in the past, and he's more like 6'3" / 6'4" then he will have further question marks.

Young Mr. Tatum, on the other hand, has a "slam dunk" NBA body type. You can completely disregard his skill set. He'll get drafted high on that alone.

- Chillin

[cato]

I am a bit confused how a welcome Jayson Tatum thread turned into a Grayson Allen vs. DWade (I was going to spell his first name but thought I would get it wrong) in his prime comparison. I'm not complaining though, as I often like thread tangents. Carry on.

The real question is what position Tatum would start at if both Grayson and a sophomore D Wade were on the team, and how many minutes Luke would earn.

[Indoor66]

The real question is what position Tatum would start at if both Grayson and a sophomore D Wade were on the team, and how many minutes Luke would earn.

There have been no definitive cinder block measurements posted so the question is "mute". :cool:

[Li_Duke]

I go back and forth on whether Grayson will be on campus next year to play with Young Mr. Tatum. On the one hand, Grayson seems to be playing at a level sufficiently high to deem him "above college." But when you look at his body type and skill set, I'm not yet convinced that he's a clear "NBA player." That's not to say that I would know better than others - I don't have a stellar track record at predicting this kind of stuff.
- Chillin

To be honest, when it comes to Duke guards who lack strong point guard skills, I'm not sure anyone has a track record of predicting which ones are clear NBA players:
Did not stick in the NBA: Trajan Langdon, Chris Carrawell, Daniel Ewing, DeMarcus Nelson, Nolan Smith.
Did stick in the NBA: Dahntay Jones, Corey Maggette, JJ Redick, Gerald Henderson

As far as athletic guards go, Grayson seems to be smaller/weaker than your Dahntay Jones/Corey Maggette/Gerald Henderson types, but larger than Nolan Smith. Other than JJ, those who didn't stick in the NBA accomplished more at Duke and had more basketball skills than those who did stick.

[Li_Duke]

The real question is what position Tatum would start at if both Grayson and a sophomore D Wade were on the team, and how many minutes Luke would earn.

Sure, I'm game for answering this question. :) Tatum at the 4, Grayson at the 2, Wade at the 1 to start. Wade plays the 4 when Thornton is in. Luke would earn 20 minutes, while Chase would play <10.

[cato]

To be honest, when it comes to Duke guards who lack strong point guard skills, I'm not sure anyone has a track record of predicting which ones are clear NBA players:
Did not stick in the NBA: Trajan Langdon, Chris Carrawell, Daniel Ewing, DeMarcus Nelson, Nolan Smith.
Did stick in the NBA: Dahntay Jones, Corey Maggette, JJ Redick, Gerald Henderson

As far as athletic guards go, Grayson seems to be smaller/weaker than your Dahntay Jones/Corey Maggette/Gerald Henderson types, but larger than Nolan Smith. Other than JJ, those who didn't stick in the NBA accomplished more at Duke and had more basketball skills than those who did stick.

Interesting list. I would actually put Grayson in the same camp in size and strength as Nelson, Jones and Hendo. Not sure any of them could jump with a young Corey, though.

Perhaps I'm suffering from recency bias.

[kAzE]

You seem to be comparing mature man Wade with 19 year old Grayson. Take a look at Wade as a rookie. He was about the same size as Grayson (actually about an inch shorter). Wade also had a weak handle coming into the league and was a fair to poor jump shooter. Wade got better quickly, but Grayson starts out ahead of Wade in some areas. That said, Wade was freakishly quick off his feet and could jump out of the gym. Grayson does not have quite that level of athleticism. What Grayson does have, at this point, is better shooting skills than Wade had coming into the League.

Young D-Wade was already a man child. In his time at Marquette, he was already a wrecking ball disguised as a basketball player. The man had a 29 point 11 board 11 assist game in the 2003 NCAA tournament against the top overall seeded Kentucky Wildcats. I'll concede that he was 21 years old at the time, but still, it's hard to forget Grayson's performance against a much weaker (but still NBA prospect laden) version of Kentucky earlier this year in comparison.

22 year old rookie D-Wade averaged 16.2 points on 46.5% shooting, 4.5 assists, and stepped that up to 18.0 PPG in the playoffs. His next 2 years: 24.1 PPG, 47.8%, 6.8 APG and 27.2 PPG, 49.5%, 6.7 APG. Those are ELITE, once or twice in a generation type numbers for a young player, and the incredible assist numbers don't seem to support your argument that he was a weak ball handler to start his career. I would say he came into the league as a top tier playmaker as a 2 guard from the get-go. I don't think this comparison is fair to either player. D-Wade is an all-time top 10 shooting guard in the history of the sport. Grayson is a great player, but he will need to work his tail off and would be lucky to play 10 years in the NBA.

[oakvillebluedevil]

Young D-Wade was already a man child. In his time at Marquette, he was already a wrecking ball disguised as a basketball player. The man had a 29 point 11 board 11 assist game in the 2003 NCAA tournament against the top overall seeded Kentucky Wildcats. I'll concede that he was 21 years old at the time, but still, it's hard to forget Grayson's performance against a much weaker (but still NBA prospect laden) version of Kentucky earlier this year in comparison.

22 year old rookie D-Wade averaged 16.2 points on 46.5% shooting, 4.5 assists, and stepped that up to 18.0 PPG in the playoffs. His next 2 years: 24.1 PPG, 47.8%, 6.8 APG and 27.2 PPG, 49.5%, 6.7 APG. Those are ELITE, once or twice in a generation type numbers for a young player, and the incredible assist numbers don't seem to support your argument that he was a weak ball handler to start his career. I would say he came into the league as a top tier playmaker as a 2 guard from the get-go. I don't think this comparison is fair to either player. D-Wade is an all-time top 10 shooting guard in the history of the sport. Grayson is a great player, but he will need to work his tail off and would be lucky to play 10 years in the NBA.


Building on point above - this claim from ESPN isn't even that crazy. That gives you an idea of how fantastic Wade was.
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/FinalsPerformances-1/greatest-finals-performances-no-1

And to bring it back to Tatum I sure wish we had Wade playing with him next year :cool:

[Ichabod Drain]

Building on point above - this claim from ESPN isn't even that crazy. That gives you an idea of how fantastic Wade was.
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/page/FinalsPerformances-1/greatest-finals-performances-no-1

And to bring it back to Tatum I sure wish we had Wade playing with him next year :cool:

Well that was article was written in 2012, before the reign of Grayson Allen. :cool:

[JPtheGame]

When Grayson played against other pros this year in the uk game, it didn't go so well. When Grayson had other pros on his team last year, he didn't play. (Yes, Brandon is obviously a pro).
Grayson is not going to score on the Leonard's, George's, and Thompson's of the league and he's not stopping those guys either.
He will be a pro but 8th or 9th man will be there whenever he wants it. No need to rush.

[cato]

When Grayson played against other pros this year in the uk game, it didn't go so well. When Grayson had other pros on his team last year, he didn't play. (Yes, Brandon is obviously a pro).
Grayson is not going to score on the Leonard's, George's, and Thompson's of the league and he's not stopping those guys either.
He will be a pro but 8th or 9th man will be there whenever he wants it. No need to rush.

Grayson had a bad game in November? You are right. No way he goes pro after this year. None at all.

[Furniture]

If as many of you say he doesn't have the right body for the NBA then wouldn't it make all the more reason for him to go this year if he is in a reasonable position in the draft. I mean who knows where he would end up the following years?

[Ichabod Drain]

When Grayson played against other pros this year in the uk game, it didn't go so well. When Grayson had other pros on his team last year, he didn't play. (Yes, Brandon is obviously a pro).
Grayson is not going to score on the Leonard's, George's, and Thompson's of the league and he's not stopping those guys either.
He will be a pro but 8th or 9th man will be there whenever he wants it. No need to rush.

Because there's a lot of NBA players who are good at stopping those guys from scoring.

[fraggler]

When Grayson played against other pros this year in the uk game, it didn't go so well. When Grayson had other pros on his team last year, he didn't play. (Yes, Brandon is obviously a pro).
Grayson is not going to score on the Leonard's, George's, and Thompson's of the league and he's not stopping those guys either.
He will be a pro but 8th or 9th man will be there whenever he wants it. No need to rush.

Not sure why he has to be a top 20 player in the NBA immediately or ever to jump if the timing is right. If the scouts say he can get drafted in the first round after this season, he should seriously consider it. Right now several prognosticators say he should. I selfishly hope he stays and does well enough to have his jersey retired, but if he dreams of being a pro, he should jump as soon as he can to get pro training.

[Furniture]

When Grayson played against other pros this year in the uk game, it didn't go so well. When Grayson had other pros on his team last year, he didn't play. (Yes, Brandon is obviously a pro).
Grayson is not going to score on the Leonard's, George's, and Thompson's of the league and he's not stopping those guys either.
He will be a pro but 8th or 9th man will be there whenever he wants it. No need to rush.

This was just one game. I think he already a better player now!
I hope he gets another try against Kentucky. I think it might be a different story. Or I could be wrong.

[Olympic Fan]

Don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread, but as for Grayson's draft status, there seems to be a variety of opinions:

According to NBAdraft.net, he's likely to go No. 13 to Boston:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft

According to ESPN's Chad Ford, Allen will go later in the first round (it's insider so I can't link).

On the other hand, Draft Express has him as a lottery pick in the 2017 draft.

Just curious, how did a thread welcoming Jason Tatum to Duke become a debate over Grayson Allen's draft status?

[Saratoga2]

I go back and forth on whether Grayson will be on campus next year to play with Young Mr. Tatum. On the one hand, Grayson seems to be playing at a level sufficiently high to deem him "above college." But when you look at his body type and skill set, I'm not yet convinced that he's a clear "NBA player." That's not to say that I would know better than others - I don't have a stellar track record at predicting this kind of stuff.

An additional unique nuance to this situation is the lack of depth in this coming NBA Draft. They have to pick someone. And so Grayson may actually have an attractive draft pick compared to, say, his same quality of play this year but in last year's draft.

So he may very well go. But I'm not so sure that he has a clear role in the NBA. His attention-commanding drives won't be as effective. His ability to finish won't be either. His shooting may translate, but he's no JJ as it stands. Obviously, he'll be able to improve upon his current skill level in all of these (and other) areas in the NBA.

Finally, his body type isn't a "slam dunk" NBA body type. He's listed at 6'5" on the Duke site. If that's generous, as many listings have supposedly been in the past, and he's more like 6'3" / 6'4" then he will have further question marks.

Young Mr. Tatum, on the other hand, has a "slam dunk" NBA body type. You can completely disregard his skill set. He'll get drafted high on that alone.

- Chillin

Clearly Luke is taller than Grayson and he is listed as 6'5", which seems to be his true height. Matt is also listed at 6'5" but is probably slightly shorter, maybe 6'4" and he is also noticeably taller than Grayson. My guess is Grayson is between 6'3" and 6'3 1/2". That might make it difficult for him in the NBA, but guys with special athleticism and talent shooting can and do make it big in the NBA.

[Ichabod Drain]

Clearly Luke is taller than Grayson and he is listed as 6'5", which seems to be his true height. Matt is also listed at 6'5" but is probably slightly shorter, maybe 6'4" and he is also noticeably taller than Grayson. My guess is Grayson is between 6'3" and 6'3 1/2". That might make it difficult for him in the NBA, but guys with special athleticism and talent shooting can and do make it big in the NBA.

Everyone was worried when Justise measured 6'-4.5" at the combine last year. He seems to be doing fine. I never really understood the concern about a guys height (to a reasonable degree). As if showing up at the combine and being 1/2" shorter than everyone thought negates everything you did in college.

[Saratoga2]

First, I suspect that Allen is a threat to go pro. Prior to the season, I was skeptical. But the way he is playing right now, he probably does have a real shot at the lottery.

But even if he stays, I don't think Jeter is in competition with Jackson for minutes. He will be, at the very least, the third "big" behind Giles and Tatum. I don't think we're going to play a rotation without a third big, especially when the two "bigs" in front of him include two freshmen, one of whom is a combo forward. Maybe that only means 10-15 mpg backing up both Giles and Tatum, but my guess is that it is 15-20 mpg.

Now, if Allen DOES stay, we have quite a lot of players on the perimeter. Allen, Kennard, Jackson, Thornton, and Jones for three positions. One of those guys will get a bit short-changed, likely in the 10-15 mpg range. I honestly don't know who that would be, though. If Allen leaves early, we will have those four rotating among the three perimeter spots with Tatum splitting time between the 3 and 4, Jeter getting a few more minutes, and spot minutes available for whomever of Obi/Delaurier/Vrankovic establishes himself as the 4th big.

Next year, Giles at 6'10" will be our starting center based on our current prospects. Clearly, Brandon will be gone, so that leaves us with Jason Tatum as a possible PF as coach K says he is over 6'8" but currently slight. We will also have Chase, who has the size and agility to play PF, but hasn't shown enough as yet to be a major player for us. Javin DeLaurier is around 6'8" and a hustler but I would guess based on rating that he has a ways to go to get a lot of PT. Sean Obi is probably not going to be a factor as he hasn't been in the lineup this year. Antonio Vrankovic has the size and apparent athleticism to play in the center role. He obviously has not as yet reached the state of being competitive at DIV I level.

With all that said, if Giles has ongoing knee problems during the year, what will be the alternative with Marshall and Amile both gone? Is Bolden still a possibility?

[English]

Clearly Luke is taller than Grayson and he is listed as 6'5", which seems to be his true height. Matt is also listed at 6'5" but is probably slightly shorter, maybe 6'4" and he is also noticeably taller than Grayson. My guess is Grayson is between 6'3" and 6'3 1/2". That might make it difficult for him in the NBA, but guys with special athleticism and talent shooting can and do make it big in the NBA.

Instead of measuring by comparison to his peers, why don't we let ACTUAL measurements taken by nonpartisan basketball folks inform us how tall Grayson is--at both the 2013 Kevin Durant Basketball camp and the 2013 Lebron James Skills Academy, Grayson measured 6'4.5 in shoes (which is typically what people wear to play basketball). Although I don't think this has ever been mentioned in the Jayson Tatum thread, it has been posted elsewhere multiple times.

Back to the topic, I'm hyper-excited for Tatum's matriculation. I have no doubt that Tatum can and will play both the 3 & 4 for Duke next season (caveat: Coach K doesn't play positions, etc.). I'm very interested in seeing Tatum's ability to defend--potentially even defend the 2-4 positions. Our glut of talent next season is dizzying.

[Li_Duke]

Next year, Giles at 6'10" will be our starting center based on our current prospects. Clearly, Brandon will be gone, so that leaves us with Jason Tatum as a possible PF as coach K says he is over 6'8" but currently slight. We will also have Chase, who has the size and agility to play PF, but hasn't shown enough as yet to be a major player for us. Javin DeLaurier is around 6'8" and a hustler but I would guess based on rating that he has a ways to go to get a lot of PT. Sean Obi is probably not going to be a factor as he hasn't been in the lineup this year. Antonio Vrankovic has the size and apparent athleticism to play in the center role. He obviously has not as yet reached the state of being competitive at DIV I level.

With all that said, if Giles has ongoing knee problems during the year, what will be the alternative with Marshall and Amile both gone? Is Bolden still a possibility?

Tatum at center, of course!

[JPtheGame]

Grayson had a bad game in November? You are right. No way he goes pro after this year. None at all.

Nah, I'm sure he's erased all doubts about his ability to score and defend top level athletes by dunking on elon. It's one game but a very important apples to apples comparison against potential pros.
I also take issue with the "can Grayson get drafted" line of thinking. There's getting in and then there's actually having a career. K has emphasized over the years that he's preparing guys for a career, not just to get drafted. My position is that Grayson is not prepared to have an nba career right now.

[Saratoga2]

Instead of measuring by comparison to his peers, why don't we let ACTUAL measurements taken by nonpartisan basketball folks inform us how tall Grayson is--at both the 2013 Kevin Durant Basketball camp and the 2013 Lebron James Skills Academy, Grayson measured 6'4.5 in shoes (which is typically what people wear to play basketball). Although I don't think this has ever been mentioned in the Jayson Tatum thread, it has been posted elsewhere multiple times.

Back to the topic, I'm hyper-excited for Tatum's matriculation. I have no doubt that Tatum can and will play both the 3 & 4 for Duke next season (caveat: Coach K doesn't play positions, etc.). I'm very interested in seeing Tatum's ability to defend--potentially even defend the 2-4 positions. Our glut of talent next season is dizzying.

So Grayson is 6'3 1/2" tall as he would be measured in a doctor's office.

Tatum is going to be very good and is probably a one and doner. He is versatile but not a 5. If Giles is injured it will be Jeter or Vrank or Obi at the 5 unless they pull in another center.

[sagegrouse]

Everyone was worried when Justise measured 6'-4.5" at the combine last year. He seems to be doing fine. I never really understood the concern about a guys height (to a reasonable degree). As if showing up at the combine and being 1/2" shorter than everyone thought negates everything you did in college.

Moreover, the thoughts on the Board ten years ago were that JJ, listed at 6-4, was a little less than 6-3. He came in at 6-4 1/2 without shoes.

Back to the subject at hand: "Grayson Allen in a Jayson Tatum thread."

Grayson could be a brute by the time he is 24 or 25. He seems to be a very strong dude. I mean, last year, when he had more than a few turnovers, he frequently just grabbed the ball back.

Second, if we are truly contemplating whether Grayson is as good an athlete as Dwyane Wade, a certain Hall of Fame selection, isn't that a huge compliment to Grayson, no matter how the argument ends.

[JohnJ]

I am seeing Chaminade and Jayson Tatum playing DeMatha on Jan. 18th at 11am EST on ESPNU.

Adding a reminder that Jayson Tatum and Chaminade take on DeMatha today at 11am EST on ESPNU:

http://areyouwatchingthis.com/tv/stations/espnu

[Ichabod Drain]

Adding a reminder that Jayson Tatum and Chaminade take on DeMatha today at 11am EST on ESPNU:

http://areyouwatchingthis.com/tv/stations/espnu

Bump for a reminder.

[jimrowe0]

Bump for a reminder.


Tatum put up 40 and 14 boards in an OT loss.

[Indoor66]

Tatum put up 40 and 14 boards in an OT loss.

He was impressive. A heady ball player.

[NashvilleDevil]

Jayson scored 40 and pulled down 15 boards leading Chaminade to the state title. I think this kid has a chance to be something special in college and the pros.

[JNort]

Next year, Giles at 6'10" will be our starting center based on our current prospects. Clearly, Brandon will be gone, so that leaves us with Jason Tatum as a possible PF as coach K says he is over 6'8" but currently slight. We will also have Chase, who has the size and agility to play PF, but hasn't shown enough as yet to be a major player for us. Javin DeLaurier is around 6'8" and a hustler but I would guess based on rating that he has a ways to go to get a lot of PT. Sean Obi is probably not going to be a factor as he hasn't been in the lineup this year. Antonio Vrankovic has the size and apparent athleticism to play in the center role. He obviously has not as yet reached the state of being competitive at DIV I level.

With all that said, if Giles has ongoing knee problems during the year, what will be the alternative with Marshall and Amile both gone? Is Bolden still a possibility?
Looks like we are gonna add Amile back too. I am gonna say 100% without a doubt he starts next year at PF/C.

[gocanes0506]

Looks like we are gonna add Amile back too. I am gonna say 100% without a doubt he starts next year at PF/C.

Definitely

G Thornton
G Jones
F Tatum
F Amile
F Giles

Jackson, Kennard, Jeter, and Delaurier coming in as subs.

[Newton_14]

Definitely

G Thornton
G Jones
F Tatum
F Amile
F Giles

Jackson, Kennard, Jeter, and Delaurier coming in as subs.

PG Thornton/Jackson
SG Allen/Kennard
SF Tatum/Jones
PF Jefferson/Tatum
C Giles/Jeter

Kennard/Jones first off the bench bringing instant offense (Kennard), instant defense (Jones)

Captains- Jefferson/Allen/Jones

These 9 kids will get the bulk of the minutes.

[Dukehky]

Tatum is the best prospect Duke will have ever had in a uniform. I have no clue how he's not the number 1 recruit. I thought he was better than Giles when Giles was healthy. Guys, we are getting a beast. His offensive game is like Kobe's except he's bigger and less selfish. He's not as good, but if you watch him play, that's who I think of. Little bigger, little less athletic, but the polish on the offensive end is exceptional.

I have never been more excited to see a freshman play for Duke. He may not be my favorite by the end of it, but I am expecting some great things from Jayson Tatum.

[dukelifer]

Tatum is the best prospect Duke will have ever had in a uniform. I have no clue how he's not the number 1 recruit. I thought he was better than Giles when Giles was healthy. Guys, we are getting a beast. His offensive game is like Kobe's except he's bigger and less selfish. He's not as good, but if you watch him play, that's who I think of. Little bigger, little less athletic, but the polish on the offensive end is exceptional.

I have never been more excited to see a freshman play for Duke. He may not be my favorite by the end of it, but I am expecting some great things from Jayson Tatum.

That is pretty high praise. Duke will have some talent coming in for sure. Jason Williams is very high on Frank Johnson. He sees a lot of himself in Jackson. That is exciting as well.

[duke blue brewcrew]

Tatum is the best prospect Duke will have ever had in a uniform. I have no clue how he's not the number 1 recruit. I thought he was better than Giles when Giles was healthy. Guys, we are getting a beast. His offensive game is like Kobe's except he's bigger and less selfish. He's not as good, but if you watch him play, that's who I think of. Little bigger, little less athletic, but the polish on the offensive end is exceptional.

I have never been more excited to see a freshman play for Duke. He may not be my favorite by the end of it, but I am expecting some great things from Jayson Tatum.

I understand your excitement about Tatum, but I think you might be overstating things just a bit. To say conclusively, no one who ever puts on a jersey in the history of Duke University will ever be as good as you think Tatum is going to be is perhaps putting the cart before the horse.

[BD80]

Tatum is the best prospect Duke will have ever had in a uniform. ...

Obviously, you never saw Nick Horvath play summer pick-up games.

[Dukehky]

I understand your excitement about Tatum, but I think you might be overstating things just a bit. To say conclusively, no one who ever puts on a jersey in the history of Duke University will ever be as good as you think Tatum is going to be is perhaps putting the cart before the horse.

Why? Somebody has to be the best incoming freshman ever at Duke. I think it's Tatum. Not predicting anything for his future; however, that belief does give me some expectations for how good he will be, and boy, do I think he is gonna be good.

[dukelifer]

Obviously, you never saw Nick Horvath play summer pick-up games.

Or Patrick Davidson shut down Chris Paul with one arm tied behind his back.

[duke blue brewcrew]

Why? Somebody has to be the best incoming freshman ever at Duke. I think it's Tatum. Not predicting anything for his future; however, that belief does give me some expectations for how good he will be, and boy, do I think he is gonna be good.

Because he hasn't done it yet in a Duke uniform. For you to say you believe he has the potential to be the best ever, that's a fair statement to make. Time will tell whether that proves to be the case. For what it's worth, I believe you just might be right. I think he's incredible, and has the potential to be great. I just don't think it's fair to Jason Tatum who has yet to set foot on campus, and it's not fair to all of the highly successful players who already have.

[SupaDave]

Tatum is the best prospect Duke will have ever had in a uniform. I have no clue how he's not the number 1 recruit. I thought he was better than Giles when Giles was healthy. Guys, we are getting a beast. His offensive game is like Kobe's except he's bigger and less selfish. He's not as good, but if you watch him play, that's who I think of. Little bigger, little less athletic, but the polish on the offensive end is exceptional.

I have never been more excited to see a freshman play for Duke. He may not be my favorite by the end of it, but I am expecting some great things from Jayson Tatum.

While I certainly disagree, I know how you feel. I was pretty geeked to see Austin Rivers come to Duke. I just loved his shot confidence.

But Tatum is ready. Already very aware that he's usually the best player on the court. Has already performed well against top comp. I think everyone is excited by next year's possibilities.

[sagegrouse]

Why? Somebody has to be the best incoming freshman ever at Duke. I think it's Tatum. Not predicting anything for his future; however, that belief does give me some expectations for how good he will be, and boy, do I think he is gonna be good.

It would seem best to reach that conclusion AFTER his freshman season, wouldn't it?

[ikiru36]

Or Patrick Davidson shut down Chris Paul with one arm tied behind his back.

In fairness (and in defense of future progeny), Patrick was wearing a cup, however.

[subzero02]

Definitely

G Thornton
G Jones
F Tatum
F Amile
F Giles

Jackson, Kennard, Jeter, and Delaurier coming in as subs.

Please don't leave Jackson off this list. If you haven't seen him yet, checkout his videos on youtube. He is going to be great.

[MChambers]

Obviously, you never saw Nick Horvath play summer pick-up games.
Did Nick wear his uniform in summer pick-up games?

[kexman]

I have seen him play 4 times. 2 times he looked great...2 times he looked disinterested even though the game was competitive. Will need to learn to play hard and focused every possession. I think that is something hard for young players. Can play the 3 or the 4 and will likely be a matchup nightmare.

[WiJoe]

I have seen him play 4 times. 2 times he looked great...2 times he looked disinterested even though the game was competitive. Will need to learn to play hard and focused every possession. I think that is something hard for young players. Can play the 3 or the 4 and will likely be a matchup nightmare.

Whom is "him"

Tatum?

Jackson?

HELP! HELP!

[subzero02]

Whom is "him"

Tatum?

Jackson?

HELP! HELP!

He is talking about Tatum who is over 6 foot 8... Jackson is a 6 foot 3 point guard who can also play 2 guard.

[BD80]

Did Nick wear his uniform in summer pick-up games?

Whatever he wore, he never revealed the "S" that lie beneath.

[OldPhiKap]

All kidding aside, I had several chances to see Tatum and Giles play last summer.

Prepare to smile.

I am still in this year's bus. But next year will be a hell of a lot of fun.

[gocanes0506]

Please don't leave Jackson off this list. If you haven't seen him yet, checkout his videos on youtube. He is going to be great.

He was the 1st name on the sub list you quoted. IMO, Thorton will start at the beginning due to experience. Jackson could become starter by ACC play.

[jv001]

He was the 1st name on the sub list you quoted. IMO, Thorton will start at the beginning due to experience. Jackson could become starter by ACC play.

This Thorton guy must be an incoming freshman that I've not heard of. :cool: But I think our current PG, Derryck Thornton is going to be a very good one by the end of his Duke career. GoDuke!

[subzero02]

He was the 1st name on the sub list you quoted. IMO, Thorton will start at the beginning due to experience. Jackson could become starter by ACC play.

I just noticed that. I'll blame that oversight on ptsd from yesterday's second half against Yale. We are going to have some intense practices next year. I think Amile's leadership will wind up being every bit as important as his play.

[gocanes0506]

I just noticed that. I'll blame that oversight on ptsd from yesterday's second half against Yale. We are going to have some intense practices next year. I think Amile's leadership will wind up being every bit as important as his play.

No biggie. Maybe K will get his scenario where he believed he should have redshirted Kelly. The added leadership on next year's talented team will make the team a big favorite next season.

[Dukehky]

Because he hasn't done it yet in a Duke uniform. For you to say you believe he has the potential to be the best ever, that's a fair statement to make. Time will tell whether that proves to be the case. For what it's worth, I believe you just might be right. I think he's incredible, and has the potential to be great. I just don't think it's fair to Jason Tatum who has yet to set foot on campus, and it's not fair to all of the highly successful players who already have.

I don't think Jayson Tatum cares in the least if I have expectations for him, nor do I think he will care that I posted those expectations on a Duke message board. And to borrow a line from Cam Newton, for someone as talented and hardworking as this young man, any expectations I may have for him pale in comparison to those that he has for himself. I also said nothing about anything that has to do with playing for Duke, I just said that I believe is talent and skill is the best, IMO, of any player who committed to play basketball for Duke. Just an opinion, one that I don't think is silly.

Whatever though, semantics. He is really, really, really good, this I'm sure we can all agree upon right now. Gonna be a fun year.

[MaxAMillion]

All kidding aside, I had several chances to see Tatum and Giles play last summer.

Prepare to smile.

I am still in this year's bus. But next year will be a hell of a lot of fun.

Yeah but Giles missing his senior year is major. He misses a year of development and he jumps up a level in competition.
I have a hard time believing he will perform like the best freshman in the country. I think Tatum will have a much bigger impact than Giles.

[Saratoga2]

Yes we have excellent talent coming in with Tatum a top of the line talent. I will wait and see him play defense before classifying him as one of the best ever coming to Duke. His offensive game does look very advanced.

[duke blue brewcrew]

Yeah but Giles missing his senior year is major. He misses a year of development and he jumps up a level in competition.
I have a hard time believing he will perform like the best freshman in the country. I think Tatum will have a much bigger impact than Giles.

Why does it matter if Tatum is better than Giles or vice versa? The bottom line is Duke has two incredibly unique and highly accomplished talents coming in the door next year that highlight an incredible recruiting class. Both will be a lot of fun to watch. Giles is more of an unknown with his knee, for sure. You should remember that he's actually been through this once already, and bounced back nicely the first time. That said, sit back, relax and enjoy the thought of what Duke will look like on the court next year, the potential is highly promissing. In the meantime, this year's Duke team is still working hard and is deserving of our attention.

[GopherBlue]

That is pretty high praise. Duke will have some talent coming in for sure. Jason Williams is very high on Frank Johnson. He sees a lot of himself in Jackson. That is exciting as well.

I was watching highlight vids of Frank Jackson, and I had the same impression - Frank sure reminds me of Jason Williams. Solid frame, great cross-over, aggressive to the hoop. Will be fun to watch these freshman next year.

[whereinthehellami]

It is going to be a fun ride next year if Duke can remain healthy, they will have a chance to do some really special things. I think Jayson's passing is going to surprise some people next year, both Giles and Jefferson will have plenty of dunks off of feeds from Jayson.

Just thinking of next year's offense, it really is not fair. It is gonna be a lot of fun!

[TruBlu]

Yeah but Giles missing his senior year is major. He misses a year of development and he jumps up a level in competition.
I have a hard time believing he will perform like the best freshman in the country. I think Tatum will have a much bigger impact than Giles.

Yes, he missed his entire senior year, but think about how well rested he will be. 😜

[plimnko]

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke-recruit-jayson-tatum-named-gatorade-high-school-player-of-the-year/15611596/

[DukeFanSince1990]

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke-recruit-jayson-tatum-named-gatorade-high-school-player-of-the-year/15611596/

"He led the school to the 2016 Class 5 state championship, pouring in 40 points in the title game against Kickapoo High School."
Read more at http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke-recruit-jayson-tatum-named-gatorade-high-school-player-of-the-year/15611596/#Ymqpu2x7U5K0q7vh.99

Kickapoo High School.

Kickapoo.

Kickapoo........4th grade me is amused.

[MChambers]

"He led the school to the 2016 Class 5 state championship, pouring in 40 points in the title game against Kickapoo High School."
Read more at http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke-recruit-jayson-tatum-named-gatorade-high-school-player-of-the-year/15611596/#Ymqpu2x7U5K0q7vh.99

Kickapoo High School.

Kickapoo.

Kickapoo....4th grade me is amused.

Makes me want to drink some Kickapoo Joy Juice

https://drinkkickapoo.com/

[killerleft]

"He led the school to the 2016 Class 5 state championship, pouring in 40 points in the title game against Kickapoo High School."
Read more at http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke-recruit-jayson-tatum-named-gatorade-high-school-player-of-the-year/15611596/#Ymqpu2x7U5K0q7vh.99

Kickapoo High School.

Kickapoo.

Kickapoo....4th grade me is amused.

I don't know how Tatum's team beat Kickapoo if they were drinking this:

https://drinkkickapoo.com/

[rasputin]

"He led the school to the 2016 Class 5 state championship, pouring in 40 points in the title game against Kickapoo High School."
Read more at http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke-recruit-jayson-tatum-named-gatorade-high-school-player-of-the-year/15611596/#Ymqpu2x7U5K0q7vh.99

Kickapoo High School.

Kickapoo.

Kickapoo....4th grade me is amused.

That's the alma mater of one Brad Pitt. You've heard of him.

[Pghdukie]

Do we have cinder block reports, potential PT, on this Brad Pitt guy? How high was he ranked in Hi-School? Can he play the stretch 4 position? Or will he transfer when the times are tough ?

[weezie]

That's the alma mater of one Brad Pitt. You've heard of him.

Oh, that guy? I don't give a gnat's patoot how much PT he might get. He's wacky as all get out but as long as he sits on that bench and looks handsome, fine by me.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Oh, that guy? I don't give a gnat's patoot how much PT he might get. He's wacky as all get out but as long as he sits on that bench and looks handsome, fine by me.

Is that the front side or the back side? I've never heard of that word before. But I like it!

[rasputin]

Is that the front side or the back side? I've never heard of that word before. But I like it!

Weezie is using a shorter version of the word:
Urban Dictionary: patootie
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=patootie
Urban Dictionary
Top Definition. patootie. A nice word usually used to substitute for "butt" or "a**". Would I really try to cut up a brand spanking new flashlight? You bet your sweet ...

[JPtheGame]

I think we will have stretches next year where we are borderline unstoppable and I think we will have stretches (early) where it is obvious we have 3 freshmen on the floor. Put me in the Giles camp for freshmen of the year which maybe be the acc player of the year award winner as well.
When we struggle I'll expect Luke, Grayson, amile, and Matt to steady the ship and get the pups pointed in the right direction.
Next year will be a blast.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think we will have stretches next year where we are borderline unstoppable and I think we will have stretches (early) where it is obvious we have 3 freshmen on the floor. Put me in the Giles camp for freshmen of the year which maybe be the acc player of the year award winner as well.
When we struggle I'll expect Luke, Grayson, amile, and Matt to steady the ship and get the pups pointed in the right direction.
Next year will be a blast.

Giles has the higher upside, but I think Tatum will be our most productive player next year. His offensive game is so advanced right now.

[JPtheGame]

I agree with refined nature of tatums game. I'm obviously making a bet on Harry's health but when healthy he looks dominant. I also think that when Duke says it's time to get something inside, Harry is the obvious choice whereas Tatum may have to share a bit more.

[-jk]

I agree with refined nature of tatums game. I'm obviously making a bet on Harry's health but when healthy he looks dominant. I also think that when Duke says it's time to get something inside, Harry is the obvious choice whereas Tatum may have to share a bit more.

Unlike the "refined nature" of this thread...

-jk

[PalmettoExpat]

Joined by Penny Hardaway to discuss his Gatorade Player of the Year honors.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=15105204

[Eternal Outlaw]

Incredible piece in the Players Tribune

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/jayson-tatum-duke-jordan-brand-classic/

[tbyers11]

Incredible piece in the Players Tribune

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/jayson-tatum-duke-jordan-brand-classic/

Thanks for the heads-up. That was an extremely impressive article about Jayson

[BandAlum83]

Incredible piece in the Players Tribune

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/jayson-tatum-duke-jordan-brand-classic/

Doesn't sound like a one and done to me. But I do understand reality. He does sound like the type of kid who will keep coming back to get his degree, though.

Super strong kid, and even stronger Mom. Welcome to Duke!

[jipops]

Incredible piece in the Players Tribune

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/jayson-tatum-duke-jordan-brand-classic/

So he's the next great hated Duke player right? Just for potentially being unhate-able.

[Chillduck]

Grant Hill has always been my favorite Duke player of all-time. Jayson Tatum may give him a run for his money!

[Henderson]

So he's the next great hated Duke player right? Just for potentially being unhate-able.

Anyone else feel a heavy Nike presence in that article?

[MCFinARL]

Incredible piece in the Players Tribune

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/jayson-tatum-duke-jordan-brand-classic/

This is a great story, and Tatum comes across as another perfect Duke fit--values athletics, academics, family, and community. I'm excited.

No reason to doubt this is genuinely his story, but these pieces in The Player's Tribune are so well paced and put together I have to think there is a strong editor's hand at work. It can't be that there are so many athletes who know how to shape a story so effectively for readers--it's a different, much more specific skill than being smart and well-spoken.

[MChambers]

Thanks for the heads-up. That was an extremely impressive article about Jayson

But by him. Just amazing.

[tbyers11]

But by him. Just amazing.

True. I went back to edit that in my comment but my 15 minutes was up. I think Jayson's may last much longer :)

[g-money]

Incredible piece in the Players Tribune

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/jayson-tatum-duke-jordan-brand-classic/

This story made my day, thanks EO.

[richardjackson199]

Good Article about Jayson Tatum and his relationship with his mom by Jeff Goodman:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/17969404/duke-blue-devils-jayson-tatum-relationship-mother

[BD80]

... his relationship with his mom by Jeff Goodman:

...

Just sounds funny to me.