2015 Gold Cup

[wilson]

Anybody watching? The U.S. looked shaky in their debut vs. Honduras on Tuesday, but the next two group matches, against Haiti tonight and Panama on Tuesday, should be easier.
At stake for the U.S. in this tournament is a berth in next summer's Confederations Cup, which includes the reigning champions of all six FIFA regions, plus the reigning World Cup holder (Germany) and the upcoming World Cup host (Russia). I'd like to see the U.S. have a chance to take on that field. Jurgen Klinsmann has also said that he likes it as a chance for the team to gain more high-level experience.
I'm also excited because I have tickets to the semifinals in Atlanta, and barring a huge collapse, the U.S. should be there.

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

Ive been watching, and its the same old same old for the US. Our back line just isn't elite enough to keep elite teams from getting a lot of chances. I think they've improved but its still as you said "Shaky". I think our attacking is slowly getting better as well, but still needs work to be a true world player. Still we are doing what needs to be done to win matches which is all that matters. I still think we win this tournament but we will be challenged in the later stages.

The West Palm Beach American Outlaws chapter will be watching the next match from O'Sheas like always!!!

[gurufrisbee]

I'm watching. Love international soccer. And after the friendlies against Netherlands and Germany the men's team should have some buzz/momentum. But they didn't look good in that first one, despite winning. In some ways I actually think the biggest factor in this one might be FIFA looking at how well the US is doing hosting the games as they might be a soon option to replace Qatar. What's funny is I feel like the US men are kind of like the US Women were at the beginning of the recent world cup. Solid defense, potential, but very limited in scorers. The women kept looking for Wambach and Morgan to do it all and the men look for Dempsey and Altidore to do it. The problem is that while Dempsey is good, he's nowhere Wambach's level (relatively) and Altidore is just a flat out disappointment and has been for a long time. The women finally let the rest of the team get aggressive and won it all. The men need to have other folks get chances and take them. My two cents.

[awhom111]

A very interesting second game. It is very unusual to see a team make changes to its entire backline between games and win both. With our placement secure for the next round, it will be interesting to see the lineup for the last game. Going forward, I would like the defense to be Johnson-Brooks-Gonzalez-Chandler. Bradley, Dempsey, and Altidore are largely locks. I think Zardes has certainly done enough to be included. As a Galaxy hater, I have been pleasantly surprised at the amount of tracking back he has done in this position. It will be interesting to see the other spots, especially if Bedoya or Morales get a chance on Monday.

The other interesting thing to see will be if there are any lineup changes. Talent-wise, I am not sure there should be, but I could see the deep part of the bench shuffled a little bit.

[gurufrisbee]

We did NOT look good against Haiti. I know we won, but that was one of the least impressive wins ever.

I'm really curious to see what Costa Rica does after their great run in Brazil last summer.

[Acymetric]

A very interesting second game. It is very unusual to see a team make changes to its entire backline between games and win both. With our placement secure for the next round, it will be interesting to see the lineup for the last game. Going forward, I would like the defense to be Johnson-Brooks-Gonzalez-Chandler. Bradley, Dempsey, and Altidore are largely locks. I think Zardes has certainly done enough to be included. As a Galaxy hater, I have been pleasantly surprised at the amount of tracking back he has done in this position. It will be interesting to see the other spots, especially if Bedoya or Morales get a chance on Monday.

The other interesting thing to see will be if there are any lineup changes. Talent-wise, I am not sure there should be, but I could see the deep part of the bench shuffled a little bit.

Altidore is a lock, but I really wish he wasn't. I know he's recovering but just have not been remotely impressed with what he's doing. Maybe needs a little more time off to heal.

[duke09hms]

What's funny is I feel like the US men are kind of like the US Women were at the beginning of the recent world cup. Solid defense, potential, but very limited in scorers.


Our defense has been anything but solid over the whole last year except for those two big games the last international break. Mediocre Haiti had a host of chances yesterday, and even Honduras was very threatening. Will need to lock up a lot better if we want to win this thing.

[gurufrisbee]

Altidore is a lock, but I really wish he wasn't. I know he's recovering but just have not been remotely impressed with what he's doing. Maybe needs a little more time off to heal.

I'm still waiting to not have a game go by and end up asking "Why is Altidore playing?". Been waiting a long time.


Our defense has been anything but solid over the whole last year except for those two big games the last international break. Mediocre Haiti had a host of chances yesterday, and even Honduras was very threatening. Will need to lock up a lot better if we want to win this thing.

Over the last year, probably true. I think the comment about the defense may have been thinking more of the performance in Brazil, where I do think our defense was pretty good. And our offense has been terrible almost always (see above comments about Altidore).

[blazindw]

Altidore is a lock, but I really wish he wasn't. I know he's recovering but just have not been remotely impressed with what he's doing. Maybe needs a little more time off to heal.

Jozy's just coming back from injury (to his hamstring, which as you all know takes a while to heal). And, with his demands for club and country, he's not going to get that time. Jozy also benefits from many games to stay in rhythm, so he will be fine. I actually think Jurgen may rest him against Panama (since we've already won the group) and then have him rested for the quarters in Baltimore.

[Native]

I'm watching as well. Now that my time in Cameron as a student is up — at least until business school ;) — I might just have to join forces with blazindw's American Outlaws.

Hope we can get Zardes some more playing time; I think he's been playing very well and can be an impact player for us.

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

Only issue I have with not playing Jozy, is who do we replace him with that has proven themselves internationally? The thing about Jozy is he can get in a groove and be dominating. Hopefully he gets in one soon, Captain America (Clint) can't be the only one who scores even if it is working so far.

[Highlander]

My 0.02c so far.

Bradley is such a conundrum. He does some great things on offense, but it seems like every game he has 4-5 just boneheaded giveaways or bad passes. He also seems to struggle getting back on defense and in controlling the ball in traffic. I would love to add up all the good plays he makes and subtract out all the bad ones to see his +/-. My guess is that he's slightly above zero.

We were very lucky against Haiti. They had several strong scoring opportunities that just barely missed. But we also had a goal disallowed due to an offisides call that wasn't. I think the linesman must have missed the initial pass and focused on the deflection instead. Otherwise there is no way the US is offsides.

Dempsey has been playing very well, but his acting to draw fouls is getting annoying. Understand it's part of the game and the other teams are doing it just as much, but I don't like it when we try and manufacture a call on incidental or no contact.

Guzan has played very well. I wonder if he may permanently replace Tim Howard in the next WC.

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

As far as Bradley goes, they need to put him in an attacking midfielder position like he was during the Netherlands game. That was by far his most brilliant game in a long while. I think he suffers from being moved around so much, and being the best option at all the midfield positions. There was an article about this on SB Nation that explains it better, its in the soccer section obviously. It made a lot of sense and I never really put the two together until now. He still may have a bonehead play now and then but at least he will be in position to control the action as much as possible. If he is in the right position and on his game dude is dangerous as it gets for us.

[blazindw]

As far as Bradley goes, they need to put him in an attacking midfielder position like he was during the Netherlands game. That was by far his most brilliant game in a long while. I think he suffers from being moved around so much, and being the best option at all the midfield positions. There was an article about this on SB Nation that explains it better, its in the soccer section obviously. It made a lot of sense and I never really put the two together until now. He still may have a bonehead play now and then but at least he will be in position to control the action as much as possible. If he is in the right position and on his game dude is dangerous as it gets for us.

This is exactly the problem of Bradley's play. He goes from game to game and sometimes half to half not knowing where he's supposed to play. AFD highlights his strengths very well and how I and most US diehards want to see him play.

[Reisen]

Just ridiculously bad reffing. US down 1-0, and Bedoya (or was it Wondo?) gets taken down in the box. Obvious DOGSO red, but the ref doesn't even blow his whistle.

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

I would love to see some more Graham Zusi and Aaron Johannson, especially Aaron I think he has a real future for us. And I admit I just like the way Zusi plays, he may not be the best option but he is fun to watch. Altidore didnt get any run this match, Coach was experimenting a lot it seemed. Kind of the result I expected either a 1-nil or 1-1 match. We didn't need this game and still got a point. Now the real Gold Cup starts, once we figure out who else advances over the next few days.

[awhom111]

http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2015/07/14/11/33/150714-mnt-gold-cup-roster-change-rel

Beasley in for Garza... okay
Corona in for Morales... fine
Gordon in for Altidore...

I am now curious to see how we plan on lining up on Saturday. It would seem crazy to throw Gordon in right away. I am a big Earthquakes fan, but I am not sure about starting Wondolowski in that position. Do we just start Dempsey up top and try to provide him with support? Altidore was still struggling, but until our next generation of forwards are healthy and ready, he was kind of the only logical choice for his position. I am curious about the defense too. Ream or Gonzalez for Brooks after his suspension?

[Acymetric]

http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2015/07/14/11/33/150714-mnt-gold-cup-roster-change-rel

Beasley in for Garza... okay
Corona in for Morales... fine
Gordon in for Altidore...

I am now curious to see how we plan on lining up on Saturday. It would seem crazy to throw Gordon in right away. I am a big Earthquakes fan, but I am not sure about starting Wondolowski in that position. Do we just start Dempsey up top and try to provide him with support? Altidore was still struggling, but until our next generation of forwards are healthy and ready, he was kind of the only logical choice for his position. I am curious about the defense too. Ream or Gonzalez for Brooks after his suspension?

Johannsson plays up there too, doesn't he? Would start him in place of Altidore.

[awhom111]

Johannsson plays up there too, doesn't he? Would start him in place of Altidore.

The way we tend to play, I am not sure how Johannsson would handle being up top on his own. He seems to play well off people so we would have to make sure he got plenty of support. That is probably the best option though.

[Highlander]

The way we tend to play, I am not sure how Johannsson would handle being up top on his own. He seems to play well off people so we would have to make sure he got plenty of support. That is probably the best option though.

If we play a 4-4-2, wouldn't Dempsey be up there as well?

[gumbomoop]

I'll be surprised and disappointed if we don't start 4-4-2, with Dempsey and Johannsson up top. Zardes and possibly Wondolowski on in last 25 minutes, depending on scoreline.

[JasonEvans]

6-0... yeah... sure, it looked good but Cuba is terrible. Still, love seeing creativity like this.


https://vine.co/v/erlz5m73ZAL

-Jason "Dempsy with a hat trick, even against a lousy opponent, not bad!" Evans

[wilson]

An absolutely horrible call to end what had been a scintillating Mexico-Costa Rica match. The presence of both the U.S. and Mexico should make for a great atmosphere in the Georgia Dome on Wednesday, though, so I'm happy.

[sagegrouse]

Mexico wins on a penalty shot on a phantom foul in the extra time during the overtime period. The key play was a total flop, that had the announcers flabbergasted that a penalty shot would be awarded.

No replay, no nothing -- the Gold Cup gets decided, perhaps, on a fictional foul.

Now this here soccer, it's supposed to be "the beautiful game." Exactly how?

[gumbomoop]

Get Beckerman out of there. On a yellow, still lunging. Get him out.

[OldPhiKap]

This is very frustrating to watch.

[OldPhiKap]

Well, that sucked.

[luburch]

Probably shouldn't be losing to Jamaica. Not getting a goal after that solid run of play in the first half proved costly. Why they went to bombing long balls forward with 5 minutes left I'll never know.

[wilson]

Ugh.
I hate sports.

[gumbomoop]

Oct. 13 is a likely date for the playoff, location TBD. I'm inclined to root for Jamaica to win this Sunday, to set up a "revenge" match for U.S. But a Mexico-U.S. matchup would be something tense.

Bradley was/is maddening. Wonderful play at times, gives ball away too frequently, though. I thought Zardes had a poor game, missing 2 pretty good chances in first half. Guzan also maddening, with great saves in matches but bonehead plays, too. Central defense, who knows who plays? Or deserves to.

[awhom111]

Oct. 13 is a likely date for the playoff, location TBD. I'm inclined to root for Jamaica to win this Sunday, to set up a "revenge" match for U.S. But a Mexico-U.S. matchup would be something tense.

Bradley was/is maddening. Wonderful play at times, gives ball away too frequently, though. I thought Zardes had a poor game, missing 2 pretty good chances in first half. Guzan also maddening, with great saves in matches but bonehead plays, too. Central defense, who knows who plays? Or deserves to.

CONCACAF must like the extra money for the playoff at least. Which they may need for some referees to be placed into protective custody.

[gumbomoop]

Article today in Wash Post says playoff will be Oct. 9, maybe in Rose Bowl if v. Mexico, but probably smaller venue if v. Jamaica.

[gurufrisbee]

How frustrating. Klinnsman is annoying. He seems to be a coach with many good ideas and many bad ideas and constantly flopping back and forth. It's like he has a new idea for the USMNT every other day. Sometimes he's building for the future and sometimes he's sticking with veterans at their end. Sometimes he's making an aggressive line up that can take down the Germanys and Brazils and Spains and Netherlands - and then sometimes they look like they have no clue on offense what to do. Altidore has compromising pictures of Coach apparently. Bradley looked like the worst player in the world in Brazil - comes back to look great ever since then - and then switched back again yesterday. Guzan had been looking better, but Tim Howard's sabatical ends the same day he runs out of the box with the ball which semi-cost the game. I read a great description of this team under Klinnsman - 2 steps forward, 2 steps backwards, and then a bunch of confusing dancing in the middle.

[blazindw]

Article today in Wash Post says playoff will be Oct. 9, maybe in Rose Bowl if v. Mexico, but probably smaller venue if v. Jamaica.

Date was announced by CONCACAF last night after the Mexico-Panama match, and Steve Goff (who wrote the article you mention) confirmed that a USA-Mexico playoff will be in the Rose Bowl. We assume that if Jamaica wins, the playoff would be at a smaller venue, but that venue has not been identified.

[YmoBeThere]

Is LA is a decent soccer town or is this a home game for Mexico?

[sagegrouse]

Date was announced by CONCACAF last night after the Mexico-Panama match, and Steve Goff (who wrote the article you mention) confirmed that a USA-Mexico playoff will be in the Rose Bowl. We assume that if Jamaica wins, the playoff would be at a smaller venue, but that venue has not been identified.

Now what does all that have to do with the CONCACAF tournament, which seems to reach a logical end on Sunday, when Jamaica plays Mexico? And why is this called a playoff? Is this a FIFA qualification event?

I am sure this has been dealt with up thread.

[gumbomoop]

Now what does all that have to do with the CONCACAF tournament, which seems to reach a logical end on Sunday, when Jamaica plays Mexico? And why is this called a playoff?

Winner of 2015 Gold Cup (Jamaica v. Mexico tomorrow) plays U.S. (which won 2013 Gold Cup) in playoff in October for place in summer 2017 Confederations Cup (8 teams) hosted by Russia. The 2017 Confederations Cup is a sort of practice run for Russian organizers prior to 2018 World Cup in Russia. It's a very valuable opportunity, if U.S. can win the October playoff. Had U.S. won this 2015 Gold Cup, there would have been no necessity for a playoff. So they blew a golden opportunity.

Third place match this aft v. Panama is meaningless. Given Panama's outrage at what happened in their semifinal match v. Mexico, they and U.S. both would probably like to skip the deflating 3d place match, unless somehow a team gets some sort of FIFA credits for future seeding in some future competition. Above my pay grade.

ETA: This may all sound confusing, because overly complex. But international football, compared to most U.S. sports, runs on a more complicated, multi-layered, multi-year, multi-competition schedule, simultaneous with which each domestic league runs its normal yearly league play. There is a logic to it, but it's different.

[bedeviled]

Thanks to a favorable preliminary draw for USA, it may be a bit early to start a separate thread for World Cup qualifying. Since we're talking about CONCACAF in this thread, though, we now have the results of the qualifying draw for the 2018 Wold Cup in Russia.

CONCACAF Round 3 (Doesn't include USA):
Head-to-head, home-and-away matchups to determine who makes it into Round 4 (see the Round 4 section below to view the specific Round 3 matchups)
Played August 31, 2015 to September 8, 2015

CONCACAF Round 4:
Three round-robin, home-and-away groups
Played November 7, 2015 to September 6, 2016
Top two teams in each group advance to Round 5


Group A Group B Group C
Mexico Costa Rica USA
Honduras Panama Trinidad and Tobago
Cucacao vs El Salvador (Rd3) Grenada vs Haiti (Rd3) St Vincent and Grenadines vs Aruba (Rd3)
Canada vs Belize (Rd3) Jamaica vs Nicaragua (Rd3) Antigua and Barbuda vs Guatemala (Rd3)

CONCACAF Round 5:
The six qualifying teams play in one big round-robin, home-and-away group
Played November 7, 2016 to October 10, 2017
Top three teams qualify for 2018 World Cup Finals in Russia
Fourth place team advances into an intercontinental play-off (For more info on the play-offs, here's a handy reference that details qualifying for all regions of the world (http://resources.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/preliminarydraw/02/66/77/70/fifa2018-preliminarydraw-a3resultsheet_neutral.pdf))

[gurufrisbee]

For real? We're supposed to WIN the Gold Cup, not finish 4th. Sounds like it's time to bring in Coach K.

[gurufrisbee]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2015/jul/24/top-us-soccer-players-usmnt

Interesting list of the 25 greatest USMNT players by the Guardian.

Dempsey at 3. Bradley at 10. No one else on the current team (Howard at 6, when he is back). No Altidore. In fact no one else who was in Brazil last year either. Hmmmm.

[Reisen]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2015/jul/24/top-us-soccer-players-usmnt

Interesting list of the 25 greatest USMNT players by the Guardian.

Dempsey at 3. Bradley at 10. No one else on the current team (Howard at 6, when he is back). No Altidore. In fact no one else who was in Brazil last year either. Hmmmm.

Friedel a little too high, but in the ballpark.

Wynalda a little too low, but in the ballpark.

Keller a little too low, but in the ballpark.

Bradley too high.

Jones too low.

Cherundolo too high.

Harkes too low.

Stewart too low, if only based off of his poaching ability!

Dooley too low.