PDA

View Full Version : A top ten team about to take a huge hit - Hoiberg leaves Iowa State for Chicago



CDu
05-30-2015, 11:02 AM
Per KC Johnson (Bulls beat writer for the Tribune), Fred Hoiberg will be announced as coach of the Bulls next week. That is a huge blow to the Cyclones, who looked primed to have a big year this year. Hoiberg had completely rebuilt the ISU program. Will be interesting to see what direction ISU will go.

Des Esseintes
05-30-2015, 12:33 PM
Per KC Johnson (Bulls beat writer for the Tribune), Fred Hoiberg will be announced as coach of the Bulls next week. That is a huge blow to the Cyclones, who looked primed to have a big year this year. Hoiberg had completely rebuilt the ISU program. Will be interesting to see what direction ISU will go.

The Hoiberg hire just makes no sense to me. To be certain, he'll come cheap, so there's that. Otherwise? Just a bizare, basically doomed to fail decision. The ratio of Mike Montgomerys to Brad Stevenses is about 10:1. And Stevens, excellent coach though he be, had the good fortune to land with a very young, rebuilding franchise. He's had a low stakes environment in which to make mistakes, learn on the job, and (crucially) gain the respect of the players. Hoiberg will not remotely have that luxury.

NashvilleDevil
05-30-2015, 12:35 PM
Interesting that the last time the Bulls lost a coach with a winning record they went to the Iowa St well also. I think Hoiberg will be slightly better than Tim Floyd.

Olympic Fan
05-30-2015, 12:53 PM
I'm not sure that it's so crazy.

Hoiberg played 10 seasons in the NBA, establishing himself as a cerebral player who understood the game. He spent one year as an assistant coach with the Timberwolves, then five seasons in Minnesota's front office.

My point is that he has a strong NBA background, unlike so many of the other college coaches who have tried and failed in the NBA. Yes, he's a risky hire -- in the sense that any first-time coach is a risky hire -- but he's less of a risk than hiring, say, Billy Donovan (who had a cup of coffee in the NBA), or Roy Williams or even John Calipari, who was an NBA failure.

And be clear about this -- Hoiberg has been the Bulls' No. 1 pick for a couple of years. They didn't settle on him when they missed on everybody else. Knowing he was out there helped them decide to fire Tib ... somebody in the Bulls organization must be pretty impressed by Hoiberg.

As for Iowa State, if they retain the current roster, I don't see them taking a big hit. And from what I hear, they are likely to promote a current assistant rather than bring in a new goy. That should help hold on to the guys currently on the team. We can't guess how a first-team coach will handle things like motivation and x-and-os, but with a veteran team, that shouldn't be a huge problem. The problem with UISU is down the road. Hoiberg was building something special, but he had not yet had that breakthrough to take the program to the next level (no conference titles and one Sweet 16 trip). It will be hard for any new coach to sustain that growth.

Finally, I'm also interested in Iowa State's fortune. In the spring of 1980, Iowa State was looking for a new coach. They offered a little-known and little-appreciated coach from Army, coming off a losing record. That offer was out there when Duke started talking to the young coach. Amazingly, Mike Krzyzewski was still a long-shot for the Duke job when he turned down the offer from Iowa State. You know what happened next.

I've always wondered whether he could have had the same success in Ames that he had in Durham?

OldPhiKap
05-30-2015, 12:57 PM
I've always wondered whether he could have had the same success in Ames that he had in Durham?

I imagine he would get the most out of jim teams wherever he went. My guess, though, is that recruiting to an (original) ACC team is easier than getting kids to Iowa.

CDu
05-30-2015, 01:17 PM
The Hoiberg hire just makes no sense to me. To be certain, he'll come cheap, so there's that. Otherwise? Just a bizare, basically doomed to fail decision. The ratio of Mike Montgomerys to Brad Stevenses is about 10:1. And Stevens, excellent coach though he be, had the good fortune to land with a very young, rebuilding franchise. He's had a low stakes environment in which to make mistakes, learn on the job, and (crucially) gain the respect of the players. Hoiberg will not remotely have that luxury.

The only thing I would say is that two of the reasons college coaches struggle in the NBA are:
1) they go to really bad teams; and
2) they don't have NBA experience

Neither is the case with Hoiberg. That is not to say he will succeed in the NBA; just that he isn't facing the same hurdles as most college-to-NBA coaches have.

The parralels to the Tim Floyd experience are also a bit different. The Bulls in 1998 were bereft of talent. This Bulls team, with Rose, Butler, Gasol, Gibson, Mirotic, and Noah, have real talent. Maybe or maybe not championship-level talent (will have to see if Noah and Gibson get healthy), but talent. And as noted above, Hoiberg knows the NBA game from his 10 years in the league, so he won't run into some of the hurdles that trip up college guys who don't know the grind of an NBA season.

Des Esseintes
05-30-2015, 01:23 PM
The only thing I would say is that two of the reasons college coaches struggle in the NBA are:
1) they go to really bad teams; and
2) they don't have NBA experience

Neither is the case with Hoiberg. That is not to say he will succeed in the NBA; just that he isn't facing the same hurdles as most college-to-NBA coaches have.

The parralels to the Tim Floyd experience are also a bit different. The Bulls in 1998 were bereft of talent. This Bulls team, with Rose, Butler, Gasol, Gibson, Mirotic, and Noah, have real talent. Maybe or maybe not championship-level talent (will have to see if Noah and Gibson get healthy), but talent. And as noted above, Hoiberg knows the NBA game from his 10 years in the league, so he won't run into some of the hurdles that trip up college guys who don't know the grind of an NBA season.

The points you and OF make about his NBA pedigree are completely sensible. I'd forgotten about his front office time. That part of his resume makes a big difference in what our expectations ought to be.

53n206
05-30-2015, 01:51 PM
Also his prior coaching record shows his intelligence. After a year as assistant coach of the Timberwolves he moved to the front office.

brevity
05-30-2015, 02:04 PM
At last... someone is talking about Iowa State. By traditional preseason logic, they should be a top 5 team, behind Maryland and UNC, and somewhere close to Kansas and Virginia. Their main question mark was the status of their coach (though I was looking at health status (http://www.cbssports.com/ncaab/eye-on-college-basketball/25155789/iowa-state-coach-fred-hoiberg-in-recovery-after-successful-heart-surgery) rather than job status).


Finally, I'm also interested in Iowa State's fortune. In the spring of 1980, Iowa State was looking for a new coach. They offered a little-known and little-appreciated coach from Army, coming off a losing record. That offer was out there when Duke started talking to the young coach. Amazingly, Mike Krzyzewski was still a long-shot for the Duke job when he turned down the offer from Iowa State. You know what happened next.

I've always wondered whether he could have had the same success in Ames that he had in Durham?

I doubt Coach K would have had as successful a college career at Iowa State. Evidence in our timeline suggests that the Chicago Bulls would have hired him in 1986 to coach Michael Jordan. (Which is more bad news for Duke: Chris Collins no longer grows up in Chicago, and signs with Arizona State instead.)

Duke95
05-30-2015, 03:33 PM
Anyone else worried that Iowa State may come looking for Jeff Capel?

CDu
05-30-2015, 04:25 PM
Anyone else worried that Iowa State may come looking for Jeff Capel?

They may come looking, but I can't imagine he would go there. He turned down ASU; I would expect the same if ISU called. That job looks good this year. After that though? Eh.

arnie
05-30-2015, 05:58 PM
Anyone else worried that Iowa State may come looking for Jeff Capel?

Roy should take the job- he wouldn't have to travel far to recruit Iowa HS stars.

Olympic Fan
05-30-2015, 08:21 PM
Anyone else worried that Iowa State may come looking for Jeff Capel?

Again, everything I hear is that they promote an assistant ... with a powerhouse team coming back, you don't want to bring in a newcomer who might cause a player or to transfer (as often happens during coaching transitions).

Beyond that, no reason to think ISU would be especially interested in Capel. I also agree with CDu -- after turning down Arizona State, I can't see where Iowa State would suddenly be attractive.

budwom
05-30-2015, 10:27 PM
Anyone else worried that Iowa State may come looking for Jeff Capel?

of all the things I worry about in this world, Jeff Capel taking the Iowa State job is most definitely not one of them. Not now. Not ever.

devildeac
05-30-2015, 11:28 PM
of all the things I worry about in this world, Jeff Capel taking the Iowa State job is most definitely not one of them. Not now. Not ever.

Alfred, is that you?

5153

aanndd888
05-31-2015, 12:27 AM
I think he has a chance to be very successful with the Bulls. He has the NBA experiece and understands the player's side of things, which will help with communication. In addition, he is going to a championship caliber team with great verteran leadership. He is a great coach, not just a great college coach, which can't be said for a lot of people in the college ranks.

TexHawk
06-01-2015, 03:48 PM
At last... someone is talking about Iowa State. By traditional preseason logic, they should be a top 5 team, behind Maryland and UNC, and somewhere close to Kansas and Virginia. Their main question mark was the status of their coach (though I was looking at health status (http://www.cbssports.com/ncaab/eye-on-college-basketball/25155789/iowa-state-coach-fred-hoiberg-in-recovery-after-successful-heart-surgery) rather than job status).

ISU's main question marks are (1) playing defense, (2) winning away from Ames.

Fred never cared for the defensive side of the game, so it will be interesting if the new coach brings any of that. If it's an assistant, probably not. But that's just half of it. ISU has one of the better homecourt advantages in the game, but it's made even more stark by their absolute inability to play at an average level on the road. Fred's teams went 20-34 away from home in his 5 years.

ISU will have a really good team in 15-16, albeit one with major question marks with or without Hoiberg. But "building to something great" was never sustainable with his practice of bringing in transfers. In fact, he's getting out before everything crashes down around him when Niang, McKay, Nader, and Long graduate next spring.

flyingdutchdevil
06-01-2015, 04:08 PM
CDu - how can the Bulls afford Gasol, Rose, Noah, Butler, and Gibson? Is that even possible with the cap next year?

CDu
06-01-2015, 04:34 PM
CDu - how can the Bulls afford Gasol, Rose, Noah, Butler, and Gibson? Is that even possible with the cap next year?

Teams can go over the cap to re-sign their own players. They will have to do so to sign Butler to his contract. They will not be able to bring in anyone worthwhile from another team though - even if they don't re-sign Butler.

Billy Dat
06-02-2015, 04:52 PM
As for Iowa State, if they retain the current roster, I don't see them taking a big hit. And from what I hear, they are likely to promote a current assistant rather than bring in a new goy.

And here I though Hoiberg was Jewish.

Dukehky
06-02-2015, 10:29 PM
The Hoiberg hire just makes no sense to me. To be certain, he'll come cheap, so there's that. Otherwise? Just a bizare, basically doomed to fail decision. The ratio of Mike Montgomerys to Brad Stevenses is about 10:1. And Stevens, excellent coach though he be, had the good fortune to land with a very young, rebuilding franchise. He's had a low stakes environment in which to make mistakes, learn on the job, and (crucially) gain the respect of the players. Hoiberg will not remotely have that luxury.

This is certainly not true. What did he get, like 25 Mil for 4 or 5 years?

CDu
06-03-2015, 09:38 AM
This is certainly not true. What did he get, like 25 Mil for 4 or 5 years?

Yeah, it was 5 years, $25 million. Not a cheap deal by any means. I think that prior to his signing, the idea might have been that (because he is a college coach and because the Bulls are generally considered a miserly franchise) he would come cheap. It just didn't turn out that way.

Lauderdevil
06-03-2015, 10:13 AM
I imagine he would get the most out of jim teams wherever he went. My guess, though, is that recruiting to an (original) ACC team is easier than getting kids to Iowa.

Kansas has done OK on this score over the years.

OldPhiKap
06-03-2015, 01:08 PM
Kansas has done OK on this score over the years.

Kansas is one of the winningest programs in history. Not really apples to apples.

That said, only 2 of the top 12 winningest programs in history are from West of the Mississippi (KU and UCLA) I believe.

devildeac
06-03-2015, 01:38 PM
Kansas is one of the winningest programs in history. Not really apples to apples.

That said, only 2 of the top 12 winningest programs in history are from West of the Mississippi (KU and UCLA) I believe.

So was Sam Gilbert. No coincidence, I guess:rolleyes:. (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)

Tripping William
06-03-2015, 03:54 PM
So was Sam Gilbert. No coincidence, I guess:rolleyes:. (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)

And Wayne Walden.

OldPhiKap
06-03-2015, 04:14 PM
So was Sam Gilbert. No coincidence, I guess:rolleyes:. (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)

"Say no more . . . ."


And Wayne Walden.

". . . but Roy's not listening anyway . . . ."

TexHawk
06-09-2015, 02:18 PM
Looks like this dropped off the front page. Iowa State hires Steve Prohm from Murray State. TJ Otzelberger likely to follow Hoiberg to Chicago, or head somewhere else in CBB. A little surprising, but not overly. Murray State has basically played like ISU, except in a smaller conference. All O, no D.

His first year will undoubtedly be good, but he needs to hit the recruiting trail hard. Cameron Payne and Isaiah Canaan weren't well known, and they were the engines behind his success at Murray State. If Monte Morris sticks around for his senior year (after this season), maybe he can keep some of that success going while he brings in his own guys.

Will be interesting to see, for sure.

subzero02
06-10-2015, 03:22 PM
I listened to Steve Prohm on the Jim Rome show today. He seems fairly laid back...but so does K on the radio. He says he met with the players on Monday and they all watched the Cavs and Warriors game together in the locker room last night. I think he'll do well at ISU; he's got a lot of talent to work with. After last year's 1st round exit,taking the Cyclones into the 2nd weekend of the NCAA tourney would probably be considered a successful year. FYI, Prohm won the Basketball Times national coach of the year award at Murray State in 2012... He accumulated a record of 104-29 in the 4 years he was head coach.