Sheed to Maryland?

[wilson]

There's growing scuttlebutt suggesting that Rasheed Sulaimon could be headed to College Park. ESPN's Andy Katz, among others, are reporting that Maryland is after his services. That would be weird, to say the least.
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2015-04-28/rasheed-sulaimon-transfer-rumors-dismissal-maryland-sexual-assault

[Channing]

I think there is a reasonable chance we get UMD in the ACC/B1G challenge. That would be interesting. I wonder if the ACC would take extra steps to try and block that matchup (we know ESPN would be drooling over it).

[mattman91]

There's growing scuttlebutt suggesting that Rasheed Sulaimon could be headed to College Park. ESPN's Andy Katz, among others, are reporting that Maryland is after his services. That would be weird, to say the least.
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2015-04-28/rasheed-sulaimon-transfer-rumors-dismissal-maryland-sexual-assault

Awwwwwwkward!

[Billy Dat]

That would be NUTS! If we can start the year off with Kentucky in the Champions Classic and Maryland in the ACC/Big 10, especially if Sheed is playing for Maryland, that would be a heck of a kick off.

For what it's worth, I saw Sheed in a bunch of Instagram photos with other guys on the team at recent campus parties, let the good times roll!

[subzero02]

This shouldn't happen... He should play for Gonzaga and Mark Few.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I think there is a reasonable chance we get UMD in the ACC/B1G challenge. That would be interesting. I wonder if the ACC would take extra steps to try and block that matchup (we know ESPN would be drooling over it).
We'll find out very soon. This is how Syracuse's SB Nation blog predicts it. (They have Md & Duke)

http://www.nunesmagician.com/2015/4/17/8444169/syracuse-basketball-projecting-the-2015-acc-big-ten-challenge-matchups-orange-schedule

[subzero02]

When is the last time we actually faced a transfer on the court. I know Chappell and King were on/behind the bench in rematches. Was it Boykin versus Cal in the 2010 NCAA tourney?

[Duvall]

When is the last time we actually faced a transfer on the court. I know Chappell and King were on/behind the bench in rematches. Was it Boykin versus Cal in the 2010 NCAA tourney?

Gbinije, in February.

[subzero02]

Gbinije, in February.

I thought there was a more recent one; I just didn't think it was that recent. So Boykin is the last out of conference transfer we've faced on court... ;-). Even if we do face Rasheed in the acc/big 10 challenge, silent G should still reclaim his "most recent on court transfer matchup" title later in the season.

[neemizzle]

Wouldn't Rasheed make this EXTRA awkward considering the circumstances? Especially on Maryland...arguably the 2nd rival we had while they were in the ACC.

Interesting to say the least.

[Wander]

UNC and Maryland are going to be preseason top 5 teams, so I would guess there's a pretty good chance that will be the matchup instead. With us maybe getting Michigan State.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Wouldn't Rasheed make this EXTRA awkward considering the circumstances? Especially on Maryland...arguably the 2nd rival we had while they were in the ACC.

Interesting to say the least.
If he plays, it sure would be. He has to graduate first to make that option a reality. I would think that if he doesn't graduate, though, he wouldn't waste time spending a year on the bench when he could be playing in the D-league or overseas.

From the linked article above.

It's unclear at this time whether Sulaimon would have to sit out a year. If he graduates from Duke — where he is still enrolled and reportedly on track to graduate this summer — he would be immediately eligible to enroll at Maryland as a graduate student; however, if he does not complete his undergraduate degree, he will have to abide by the NCAA's transfer rule and sit out the 2015-16 season.

[Duvall]

With us maybe getting Michigan State.

Yecch. I'll take the crab juice.

[CameronBornAndBred]

UNC and Maryland are going to be preseason top 5 teams, so I would guess there's a pretty good chance that will be the matchup instead. With us maybe getting Michigan State.
Drifting off topic, but I would guess that we will also be a top 5 team as well.

[mattman91]

wouldn't rasheed make this extra awkward considering the circumstances? Especially on maryland...arguably the 2nd rival we had while they were in the acc.

Interesting to say the least.

not our rival!

[BD80]

UNC and Maryland are going to be preseason top 5 teams, so I would guess there's a pretty good chance that will be the matchup instead. With us maybe getting Michigan State.


Yecch. I'll take the crab juice.

I kind of like the thought of playing Michigan State (along with Wisconsin) in the non-conference schedule. Could work out well.

[Tom B.]

Yecch. I'll take the crab juice.

Well played.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhmZ4FQK730

[Billy Dat]

Wouldn't Rasheed make this EXTRA awkward considering the circumstances? Especially on Maryland...arguably the 2nd rival we had while they were in the ACC.

Interesting to say the least.

It would be like Suge Knight signing 2Pac to Death Row out of prison.

[pamtar]

I hope he doesn't. If he does, and plays like he's capable of, MD is gonna be really good. I hate their fans as much as the next guy, but if Sheed feels like that's where he needs to be then I wish him the best.

Still holding on to a sliver hope that he and K can make amends, all rumors get resolved, and he plays in Durham next year.

[lotusland]

I thought UMD was supposed to be loaded next year. Why not go home to Texas? I guess he could play with Semi at SMU. Apparrently the Methodists were not afraid to hire Larry Brown.

[sagegrouse]

I thought UMD was supposed to be loaded next year. Why not go home to Texas? I guess he could play with Semi at SMU. Apparrently the Methodists were not afraid to hire Larry Brown.

He just escaped Texas three years ago. Why would he want to go back? And SMU, SMU? That's in Dallas -- nowhere near Houston and a really different place. And, good grief, Texas A&M is in College Station and Baylor is in Waco.

[neemizzle]

not our rival!

Haha! Say what you want, but man if I didn't cringe every time we played them. I have almost as many Maryland players as UNC players I can't stand. Adding Sheed in a Maryland uniform wouldn't be my favorite thing in the world. Although I'd understand it.

Like someone replied above, he has to get there first. Playing in the D-League is becoming something Duke guys excel at IMO.

Given the guys Maryland has now, would he start there? They have Trimble and now Diamond Stone to add to the group there.

[Bob Green]

Maryland doesn't excite me but I will be very happy to see Sulaimon land on his feet.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Still holding on to a sliver hope that he and K can make amends, all rumors get resolved, and he plays in Durham next year.
I can guarantee you there is not a shot in the universe that happens.

[dukelifer]

I can guarantee you there is not a shot in the universe that happens.

Depends on the Universe- According to Steven Hawking who was asked about the recent departure of a member of the boy band One Direction

It would not be beyond the realms of possibility that somewhere outside of our own universe lies another different universe—and in that universe, Zayn is still in One Direction.

By Analogy

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that Rasheed is still a member of the Duke basketball team- in a different Universe

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/04/zayn-malik-stephen-hawking

[Henderson]

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that Rasheed is still a member of the Duke basketball team- in a different Universe


Damn, dude. I have enough trouble getting to Durham for a game.

[OldPhiKap]

Maryland doesn't excite me but I will be very happy to see Sulaimon land on his feet.

What Bob said. And if that is where he ends up, I wish him a great year.

[uh_no]

I can guarantee you there is not a shot in the universe that happens.

there's a non-zero probability of almost ANYTHING happening.

quantum mechanics....not even once.....

[Richard Berg]

When is the last time we actually faced a transfer on the court. I know Chappell and King were on/behind the bench in rematches. Was it Boykin versus Cal in the 2010 NCAA tourney?
Silent G was mentioned. But back to that 2010 season, we also faced ex-class-of-05-member Eric Boateng in the Nov '09 Preseason NIT vs ASU.

[dukelifer]

Damn, dude. I have enough trouble getting to Durham for a game.

Wormhole right behind Cameron.

[jimsumner]

Silent G was mentioned. But back to that 2010 season, we also faced ex-class-of-05-member Eric Boateng in the Nov '09 Preseason NIT vs ASU.

Duke also played against Andre Sweet in the 2004 NCAAs.

[Edouble]

I hope he doesn't. If he does, and plays like he's capable of, MD is gonna be really good. I hate their fans as much as the next guy, but if Sheed feels like that's where he needs to be then I wish him the best.

Still holding on to a sliver hope that he and K can make amends, all rumors get resolved, and he plays in Durham next year.

I don't think it was Sheed vs. K, I think it was Sheed vs. Duke.

The guy was a cancer to the team... two years in a row. In a March Madness interview on CBS, one could infer from Coach K's comments that Sheed ruined the 2013-14 Blue Devils chemistry. As soon as Rasheed was gone this year, coming off of a 3-3 record in the previous six games, we didn't lose until a blip in the postseason, going 18-1.

It wasn't all because Rasheed was gone, of course, but the guy was given every chance in the world. I would much rather see the team without him next season and beyond. I wish him the best, but we are clearly better off without him. It hurts to say, because he was one of my favorites, but it's the truth.

[BD80]

Wormhole right behind Cameron.

Actually, there is a huge sinkhole 8 miles behind Cameron

[gurufrisbee]

I hope Sheed lands on his feet and finds success somewhere. But I hope it's not Maryland. I just don't think that's enough space and separation even if they are now technically in the Big Can't Count and not the ACC. I think the best option, IMO, seems pretty clear - Texas. Sheed goes back near his home, plays for a great coach, brings a lot of experience and veteran leadership to a program that needs it, but can sort of find himself a new there.

[MarkD83]

there's a non-zero probability of almost ANYTHING happening.

quantum mechanics....not even once.....

Well you may know where he is but you won't know how fast he is going.

[moonpie23]

Maryland doesn't excite me but I will be very happy to see Sulaimon land on his feet.

i'm with you on this, bob....i don't care where he goes, or if we have to face him.......good luck to him, and to us...

[msdukie]

Wouldn't Rasheed make this EXTRA awkward considering the circumstances? Especially on Maryland...arguably the 2nd rival we had while they were in the ACC.

Interesting to say the least.

Since the dawn of time, Duke University's secondary rival has been the North Carolina State University. That is the way it has always been. That is the way it always shall be. So it is written.

Note: Same goes to Wake Forest and its fighting Baptists at Number 3.

[SCMatt33]

I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into this, but while the big news was the Terps recruitment of Sheed, there was another bit of interesting info buried at the bottom of the 247 Sports article linked on the front page (http://247sports.com/Bolt/Maryland-Recruiting-Duke-Transfer-Rasheed-Sulaimon-37004039). Arizona State was listed among the other schools involved in the recruitment. If Bobby Hurley is actively recruiting Sheed, I would have to assume that he at the very least called Coach K about it. If ASU is still involved, this would seem to be a tacit endorsement of Sheed's off court situation and his ability to function in a team environment. I can't imagine Bobby Hurley recruiting him otherwise.

[Duke95]

Since the dawn of time, Duke University's secondary rival has been the North Carolina State University. That is the way it has always been. That is the way it always shall be. So it is written.

Note: Same goes to Wake Forest and its fighting Baptists at Number 3.

We have brief periods of rivalry with various teams when they have good years. NC State and Wake are definitely not our #2 and #3 rivals. I'd put Kentucky and Maryland over them.

[throatybeard]

We have brief periods of rivalry with various teams when they have good years. NC State and Wake are definitely not our #2 and #3 rivals. I'd put Kentucky and Maryland over them.

We don't even play Kentucky on any regular basis. Very few of our alumni live anywhere near any significant concentration of theirs. Significant concentrations of them are mostly in a modestly-sized state perched between the south and the midwest, and in metro Cincinnati. Without the media perpetually ululating about Christian Laettner, this would hardly even be a thing, much less our number two rivalry.

I don't care a lot for the New England Patriots. Let's call them our #2 rival. It makes nearly as much sense.

[SupaDave]

We have brief periods of rivalry with various teams when they have good years. NC State and Wake are definitely not our #2 and #3 rivals. I'd put Kentucky and Maryland over them.

Off sample size alone NC State is most certainly our rival - hell, have we even beat them in the last 3 years? If ANY team has had our number the last few years in the ACC - it's been NC State. If Duke and UK are rivals then I'm sure Kansas qualifies as UNC's #2 rival - but it doesn't work like that. Rivals actually get to see each other more than every blue moon.

[BD80]

... I don't care a lot for the New England Patriots. Let's call them our #2 rival. It makes nearly as much sense.

Would be tough to dribble under-inflated balls

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'm not sure if I'm reading too much into this, but while the big news was the Terps recruitment of Sheed, there was another bit of interesting info buried at the bottom of the 247 Sports article linked on the front page (http://247sports.com/Bolt/Maryland-Recruiting-Duke-Transfer-Rasheed-Sulaimon-37004039). Arizona State was listed among the other schools involved in the recruitment. If Bobby Hurley is actively recruiting Sheed, I would have to assume that he at the very least called Coach K about it. If ASU is still involved, this would seem to be a tacit endorsement of Sheed's off court situation and his ability to function in a team environment. I can't imagine Bobby Hurley recruiting him otherwise.

I wouldn't read it as a tacit endorsement of any kind. I have former employees that I would give a good recommendation to, but I am one hundred percent never hiring again. I suppose you could read it as an endorsement of "this guy might thrive with a second chance," but to call it some sort of referendum on K's position on Sheed's off the court "situation" is reading far too much into it.

I very much enjoyed watching Sheed in a Duke uniform. Given all the things that have been said and things that remain unsaid, I don't wish ill upon him, but I won't be wearing his uniform and waving his flag no matter where he lands next.

[Henderson]

Would be tough to dribble under-inflated balls

Oooh, that's a can of worms. What about defending a guy like Sheed by deflating the ball a bit? Or to make it easier for one's catch-challenged center to grab a pass? Would an over-inflated ball be more likely to bounce off the rim?

[Duke95]

I don't care a lot for the New England Patriots. Let's call them our #2 rival. It makes nearly as much sense.

Makes more sense than calling NCSU our #2 rival.

A school that hasn't made the FF or win anything since 1983 is our #2 rival? Like that makes any sense at all. NC State and Wake haven't been our real rivals for a long time. Just because a team beats us a few times doesn't make them a rival. The reason UK and Duke are rivals isn't just because our competition on the court, it's the competition for recruits, the number of championships, and the prestige of the programs.

That said, I like State. Good people.

[SCMatt33]

I wouldn't read it as a tacit endorsement of any kind. I have former employees that I would give a good recommendation to, but I am one hundred percent never hiring again. I suppose you could read it as an endorsement of "this guy might thrive with a second chance," but to call it some sort of referendum on K's position on Sheed's off the court "situation" is reading far too much into it.

I very much enjoyed watching Sheed in a Duke uniform. Given all the things that have been said and things that remain unsaid, I don't wish ill upon him, but I won't be wearing his uniform and waving his flag no matter where he lands next.

How is it not? If he was a total locker room cancer, or Coach K thought he couldn't function on a team, is there any way Hurley would recruit him? That in my book is a tacit endorsement that he deserves another chance, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think Coach K could possibly reccomend recruiting him on one hand, but claim he's still a big risk off the court on the other.

[SupaDave]

Makes more sense than calling NCSU our #2 rival.

A school that hasn't made the FF or win anything since 1983 is our #2 rival? Like that makes any sense at all. NC State and Wake haven't been our real rivals for a long time. Just because a team beats us a few times doesn't make them a rival. The reason UK and Duke are rivals isn't just because our competition on the court, it's the competition for recruits, the number of championships, and the prestige of the programs.

That said, I like State. Good people.

Doesn't seem to matter when they are whupping up on us in front of a full house...

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

How is it not? If he was a total locker room cancer, or Coach K thought he couldn't function on a team, is there any way Hurley would recruit him? That in my book is a tacit endorsement that he deserves another chance, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think Coach K could possibly recommend recruiting him on one hand, but claim he's still a big risk off the court on the other.

Apologies - I might have been reading your comment incorrectly. I assumed that by a "tacit endorsement of Sheed's off the court situation" you were referring to the allegations against him. To further my employee analogy - if I had a great employee who made a mistake one time and pocketed $100 from the register to buy groceries so I fired them, I could give them a good recommendation for their next job without offering a tacit endorsement of their thievery. You can recommend that Sheed is a great player, you might even tell Hurley that you think he's learned a lot and might become a good teammate. And who knows, K has never addressed the "off the court situation" that we have all heard rumors of - perhaps he is on Sheed's side in regards to that too. But I think that assuming that just because ASU is interested in Sheed's services next season, that K has somehow backed in with his legal issues is taking a big long step.

Again, if you solely meant his on-court and in locker room complications, I agree. But that's not how I read it.

[DangerDevil]

Makes more sense than calling NCSU our #2 rival.

A school that hasn't made the FF or win anything since 1983 is our #2 rival? Like that makes any sense at all. NC State and Wake haven't been our real rivals for a long time. Just because a team beats us a few times doesn't make them a rival. The reason UK and Duke are rivals isn't just because our competition on the court, it's the competition for recruits, the number of championships, and the prestige of the programs.

That said, I like State. Good people.

So if I understand your argument, the Red Sox and Yankees weren't rivals from 1918 to 2004?

[Duke95]

So if I understand your argument, the Red Sox and Yankees weren't rivals from 1918 to 2004?

I have no idea. I'm not a baseball fan.

[Henderson]

So if I understand your argument, the Red Sox and Yankees weren't rivals from 1918 to 2004?


I have no idea. I'm not a baseball fan.

I think he was making a point about limited historical perspective.

And NCSU beat us last year.

[Lar77]

Doesn't seem to matter when they are whupping up on us in front of a full house...

Apologies for veering off topic, but on rivals.

We are a charter member of the ABC club, they are our main rival. It has been consistent for many, many years and now hyped into permanence.

Living in NC, State must be considered our second rival, regardless of relative accomplishments in the last 2 decades. The hate is not there because of the aforementioned ABC club, but the passion is. When did we last beat them in Raleigh?

Wake is number 3. Anyone who has gone to a game at the Joel, especially during the Prosser-Gaudio years, would know that. Plus, during our dark days in football, they were the one team in the conference we could compete with although we had many tough losses. Again, it's not hate, but passionate. Ask any Wake alum about how Duke gets any recruit we want.

Maryland is up there, starting with the Lefty days and rekindling with Sweaty, and sustained by Elmore. Theirs is pure hatred, but it limited to basketball. Kentucky's is limited basketball as well.

On another note, if we deflate the balls, will it help Plum's handle? My summer wish is Marshall works on his hands. He can be a force next year.

[sagegrouse]

Makes more sense than calling NCSU our #2 rival.

A school that hasn't made the FF or win anything since 1983 is our #2 rival? Like that makes any sense at all. NC State and Wake haven't been our real rivals for a long time. Just because a team beats us a few times doesn't make them a rival. The reason UK and Duke are rivals isn't just because our competition on the court, it's the competition for recruits, the number of championships, and the prestige of the programs.

That said, I like State. Good people.

Duke is out to win today,
Carolina goodnight! (Beat State!)
So, turn on the steam, team,
Fight! Blue Devils, fight!

The "Beat State" was an essential part of the fight song... back in the day.

[Duke95]

I think he was making a point about limited historical perspective.

And NCSU beat us last year.

Since I don't watch or follow baseball, that point was lost on me.

ND beat us twice last year. Does that make them twice the rival NC State is?


Duke is out to win today,
Carolina goodnight! (Beat State!)
So, turn on the steam, team,
Fight! Blue Devils, fight!

The "Beat State" was an essential part of the fight song... back in the day.

"back in the day" is right. Were we called Trinity College back then? ;)

[Lar77]

Duke is out to win today,
Carolina goodnight! (Beat State!)
So, turn on the steam, team,
Fight! Blue Devils, fight!

The "Beat State" was an essential part of the fight song... back in the day.

Unfortunate it has been corrupted in recent years. Totally unnecessary.

On the baseball front, Boston-NY has gone on since the Babe was sold to the Yankees, and it has been sustained through multiple sports despite relative accomplishments (ask a Jet fan).

[Lar77]

Since I don't watch or follow baseball, that point was lost on me.

ND beat us twice last year. Does that make them twice the rival NC State is?



"back in the day" is right. Were we called Trinity College back then? ;)

I think ND has the potential to become a rival given the similarities between the schools.

[DangerDevil]

I have no idea. I'm not a baseball fan.

The "Curse of the Bambino", from 1918 to 2004 the Red Sox didn't win the World Series, during the same stretch the Yankees won 26. I think most people would put the Red Sox Yankees rivalry in the conversation with Duke Carolina when discussing the greatest rivalry of all.

[Monmouth77]

We don't even play Kentucky on any regular basis. Very few of our alumni live anywhere near any significant concentration of theirs. Significant concentrations of them are mostly in a modestly-sized state perched between the south and the midwest, and in metro Cincinnati. Without the media perpetually ululating about Christian Laettner, this would hardly even be a thing, much less our number two rivalry.

I don't care a lot for the New England Patriots. Let's call them our #2 rival. It makes nearly as much sense.

Rivalry can mean something different and broader than "an ancient regional foe, regularly engaged." I mean, I am sure that at some point WalMart considered various variety stores in and around Benton, Arkansas to be rivals. Now their rival (if they have one) is Target.

Duke and Kentucky are on the very short list of college basketball programs that have won more than 4 championships. They played against each other for a National Championship in 1978. They played against each other in regional finals multiple times. They played the greatest game ever played. Increasingly, they compete directly against each other for a small handful of very elite athletes who might decide to attend either school. Your point that our fan bases are completely different is even more reason there is, yes, a rivalry. Duke alums are geographically disparate, more urban than rural, and tend to care whether their athletes are also good student representatives of their alma mater. UK fans are a regional force of nature with a "just win baby" attitude. This is the sort of confluence of competitive basketball equality and cultural dissonance that makes up a "rivalry."

I think a part of why folks were always uncomfortable with considering Maryland a "rival," was not only because Terpdom came to treat Duke as their primary nemesis (a feeling not reciprocated at all by Duke) but because, competitively, it was mostly a joke. Eventually, Maryland fueled itself to a national title -- perhaps in part by raising its standards and trying to compare itself to and compete with Coach K's Duke teams. So, you know, whatever works. But Maryland is not our rival.

Kentucky? I mean, check out how not obsessed we are with them, right?

[Henderson]

"back in the day" is right. Were we called Trinity College back then? ;)

Some of us are Trinity College grads.

Again, historical perspective.

CPG.

[Newton_14]

We have brief periods of rivalry with various teams when they have good years. NC State and Wake are definitely not our #2 and #3 rivals. I'd put Kentucky and Maryland over them.
State and Wake are most certainly our Number 2 and 3 rivals.

The first year I had season tickets was 2004. The crowd noise atmosphere was noticeably higher for Wake, then State, then UNC in that order. expansion has hurt that, but State and Wake still rep very well in Cameron during their games. State probably brings more fans than Unc to be honest though they are still a long distant 2nd to UNC rivalry wise.

[swood1000]

How is it not? If he was a total locker room cancer, or Coach K thought he couldn't function on a team, is there any way Hurley would recruit him? That in my book is a tacit endorsement that he deserves another chance, nothing more, nothing less. I don't think Coach K could possibly reccomend recruiting him on one hand, but claim he's still a big risk off the court on the other.
Coach K might have said that he was locker room cancer due exclusively to the fact that he wasn't getting as much playing time as he thought he deserved but that Coach K believed that this was a growing-up experience that likely has radically changed his attitude. Furthermore if Hurley expects to start him that will even further remove the likelihood of trouble. Hurley's desire for a good player will also play into this.

[Richard Berg]

Maryland got to be #2 during the Steve Blake years -- they were the only game (besides Carolina) with special tenting rules, for instance -- but with their decline & departure that role definitely falls to State/Wake (whoever is stronger at the moment).

[Duke95]

State and Wake are most certainly our Number 2 and 3 rivals.

Maybe people who either grew up in NC or are older and experienced a different atmosphere with regard to those schools feel a certain greater rivalry with State and Wake than other Duke fans/grads.
I wouldn't put two schools who have won what, 1 championship together, as our 2nd and 3rd rival. Wake last made the FF in 1962. We don't even compete with Wake for recruits.

I'd put say, UConn, Kentucky, maybe UMd up there, of course, all behind UNC.

[Duke95]

Some of us are Trinity College grads.

Again, historical perspective.

CPG.

You must be quite old, considering when Trinity became Duke. Probably why you have such a good historical perspective.

Obviously, I was not referring to Trinity College of Arts and Sciences, but the University itself. I assume yours says Duke University at the top as well. If not, you should ask them to give you another one.

[Henderson]

You must be quite old, considering when Trinity became Duke. Probably why you have such a good historical perspective.

Obviously, I was not referring to Trinity College of Arts and Sciences, but the University itself. I assume yours says Duke University at the top as well. If not, you should ask them to give you another one.

I just checked. My diploma says "Trinity College of Arts and Sciences". And I value that, thanks very much.

CPG.

Let's give it a rest. So very off-topic.

[Duke95]

I just checked. My diploma says "Trinity College of Arts and Sciences". And I value that, thanks very much.


Maybe back then they didn't put "Duke University" above Trinity College of Arts and Sciences on the diplomas...

[killerleft]

Maybe people who either grew up in NC or are older and experienced a different atmosphere with regard to those schools feel a certain greater rivalry with State and Wake than other Duke fans/grads.
I wouldn't put two schools who have won what, 1 championship together, as our 2nd and 3rd rival. Wake last made the FF in 1962. We don't even compete with Wake for recruits.

I'd put say, UConn, Kentucky, maybe UMd up there, of course, all behind UNC.

Your idea of what a rivalry means is totally different from mine. One, you're evidently just a Duke basketball fan. My requirement would be that a rivalry would exist across all sports. If you can't transfer the feelings you have for a Duke vs. Anybody game in basketball to other sports, that's a weaker thing. State, UNC, and Wake games are usually special for the actual combatants no matter what the sport. I'd have trouble even associating Duke vs. Kentucky, UCONN, and MD in most other sports to any kind of rivalry at all. ND might be a lacrosse rivalry that's on equal footing, but they'd laugh if we said they were our football rival.

So, yeah, call these national powers rivals if you want. Notre Dame-USC is certainly a football rivalry. But they play every year, at least.

[Duke95]

Your idea of what a rivalry means is totally different from mine. One, you're evidently just a Duke basketball fan.

I assumed we're talking about basketball, since this is the Duke Basketball Report. Basketball is by far our best sport and has been for many many years.
But yes, basketball is really the only college sport I follow, other than maybe the college football playoffs or a few big games. I didn't grow up in the US early on, so I don't have that attachment to baseball or football.

So, to clarify, I am only referring to basketball rivalries. Certainly, we may define overall rivalries differently.

Anyway, back to Sheed.

[MCFinARL]

Coach K might have said that he was locker room cancer due exclusively to the fact that he wasn't getting as much playing time as he thought he deserved but that Coach K believed that this was a growing-up experience that likely has radically changed his attitude. Furthermore if Hurley expects to start him that will even further remove the likelihood of trouble. Hurley's desire for a good player will also play into this.

I, for one, am curious about what the OP was referring to when he/she suggested that Coach K made such remarks during March Madness in 2013-14 (or this year? that wasn't clear from the post). This sounds like a VERY un-Coach-K thing to say or even imply in public remarks. The very terse explanation he offered when Sulaimon was dismissed only confirms my surprise that he would have said anything like this in another context. So if the OP can provide documentation that would be great.

In response to your post, I agree that it's possible Coach K could feel that Sulaimon's relationship with the Duke coaches and program was irretrievably broken but still think he might work out well given another chance on another team. I suspect Hurley would, as suggested by others, talk to Coach K before offering Sulaimon, and I suspect Coach K would give a candid, pros-and-cons type of answer. It's not Coach K's place to decide what Coach Hurley does or doesn't want to deal with as a coach, only to advise him what he can expect based on Coach K's experience with Sulaimon.

[Bostondevil]

IMHO, when it comes to rivalries, There Can Be Only One! It's UNC and nobody else.

Sure, there are other teams that we fans really, really want to see Duke beat in basketball. We may on the verge of finding some football teams that we really, really want to see Duke beat at Wally Wade.

But our rival is UNC. That's it.


And as someone with first hand experience of Red Sox/Yankees - doesn't really compare. First off, when the Yankees manage to beat the Red Sox, nobody, and I mean nobody, shows up at work the next day wearing a Yankees hat. Sometimes there will be "that kid" in the elementary school playground. He's not treated like "that kid" in the famous class photo from the school in Chapel Hill. The other kids will question his taste and/or intelligence, but they'll still let him play in all the reindeer games.

And Red Sox/Yankees have Wade Boggs, Roger Clemons, Johnny Damon to name a few. Duke/UNC? Yeah, no. Nobody leaves one to sign for the other. Nobody is guessing Sulaimon will wind up at UNC cause it would never happen.

[DangerDevil]

IMHO, when it comes to rivalries, There Can Be Only One! It's UNC and nobody else.

He's not treated like "that kid" in the famous class photo from the school in Chapel Hill. The other kids will question his taste and/or intelligence, but they'll still let him play in all the reindeer games.

Try wearing a Red Sox hat into the bleachers in the Bronx or how would you treat a guy in a Yankees hat sitting on top of the Green Monster?

The fact that Duke, UNC, State, and Wake, as well as their associated fans are literally and figuratively neighbors and in each others backyards adds to the rivalries.




And Red Sox/Yankees have Wade Boggs, Roger Clemons, Johnny Damon to name a few. Duke/UNC? Yeah, no. Nobody leaves one to sign for the other. Nobody is guessing Sulaimon will wind up at UNC cause it would never happen.

The more appropriate analogy would be the recruiting wars between the two teams. Coincidentally, Sheed falls into that group (Hurley, Hill, the Capels, Stackhouse, Vince Carter, Barnes, Ingram, and many, many more)

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/67405/rasheed-sulaimon

[Bostondevil]

Try wearing a Red Sox hat into the bleachers in the Bronx or how would you treat a guy in a Yankees hat sitting on top of the Green Monster?

The guy will take ribbing and maybe, if there's been a bit too much drinking, something rougher but I have yet to witness a fight in the stands at Fenway Park and I've been going to Fenway since Clemons last start in the 1987 season. I went to grad school at SMU in Dallas. I used to go to Rangers games when I lived there. There was only one game I ever went to where I DIDN'T see a fight in the stands (and that game featured a fight on the field.)



The more appropriate analogy would be the recruiting wars between the two teams. Coincidentally, Sheed falls into that group (Hurley, Hill, the Capels, Stackhouse, Vince Carter, Barnes, Ingram, and many, many more)

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/67405/rasheed-sulaimon

Nope. Disagree with you there. Sure there are some tough recruiting battles between the two schools (Welcome to Duke, Brandon Ingram!) but once you choose a shade a blue, you are done. Nobody switches blues. Not true with the Yankees/Red Sox. The Yankees are always signing former Red Sox players as free agents although, I will admit, the reverse doesn't happen as often. It goes to coaching staffs too. Once you've coached at either school, even as an assistant, you aren't going to the other one - the fan bases would not allow it. (Basketball only. I don't know about the coaching in other sports. Still, even in non-basketball sports, I bet it's a rarity.)

[hudlow]

Good Luck, Sheed....

I hope you get a better offer.

Anywhere.

hud

[moonpie23]

I just checked. My diploma says "Trinity College of Arts and Sciences". And I value that, thanks very much.

CPG.

Let's give it a rest. So very off-topic.

I just checked my diploma. it says "you don't stand a chance"

[Duvall]

It's pretty simple - it's a poor rival that's rarely if ever on your schedule in any sport. The "not our rivals" talk was overblown before Maryland left the ACC, but now it's just reality.

[tbyers11]

New story about Rasheed's situation by Jeff Goodman at ESPN

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12787744/rasheed-sulaimon-denies-assault-says-dismissal-was-separate-matter

First sentence sums up the main points

Former Duke guard Rasheed Sulaimon denied that he had committed a sexual assault and said that his dismissal from the Blue Devils in January was for a separate matter.

Are these Rasheed's first public comments on the situation? EDIT: Umm, yes they are. Guess I should read the 2nd paragraph

[rsvman]

Happy if Sheed gets a chance to play elsewhere. Perplexed at why he would consider, even for a moment, playing for the Twerps.

On second thought, he probably wants a second chance at that national championship that he coulda/woulda/shoulda been a part of this year. And Maryland is definitely among the handful of teams that have a legitimate chance next season.

I wish him the best of luck. I read the article linked in the other thread, and it sounds like Rasheed has grown up quite a bit in the past few months and that his attitude is really on the right track now.

[Eternal Outlaw]

I assumed we're talking about basketball, since this is the Duke Basketball Report. Basketball is by far our best sport and has been for many many years.
But yes, basketball is really the only college sport I follow, other than maybe the college football playoffs or a few big games. I didn't grow up in the US early on, so I don't have that attachment to baseball or football.

So, to clarify, I am only referring to basketball rivalries. Certainly, we may define overall rivalries differently.

Anyway, back to Sheed.

Curious but if winning recent(-ish) titles and such are the key to being rivals, how long until Maryland falls off for you? They won it all in 2002 which is over a decade now, and their best success is a sweet 16 since then (2003 so still over a decade) and multiple tourney misses. NC State maybe hasn't won it all in a long time but at least they have 2 sweet 16 in 4 years under their current coach.

[DukeTrinity11]

If Sheed transfers to Maryland and plays to his full potential, then MD will be the team to beat next year IMHO. They have the right mixture of experience and talent.

PG: Melo Trimble
SG: Rasheed Sulaimon
SF: Jake Layman
PF: Robert Carter
C: Diamond Stone

I can't think of a better starting 5 next year in my head to be honest. Here's hoping he avoids the dark side and heads south to Shaka or West to Hurley! ;)

[Duke95]

Curious but if winning recent(-ish) titles and such are the key to being rivals, how long until Maryland falls off for you? They won it all in 2002 which is over a decade now, and their best success is a sweet 16 since then (2003 so still over a decade) and multiple tourney misses. NC State maybe hasn't won it all in a long time but at least they have 2 sweet 16 in 4 years under their current coach.

I define a rival as someone you would most like to beat. In that case, the order of rivalry for Duke (for me) is:

1. UNC
2. Kentucky
3. Whomever is ranked highest
4. Whomever gets us more publicity and helps with recruiting
5. Maryland because their fans are a-holes.
6. Louisville
7. Kansas
8. Arizona

After the first two, there is massive dropoff in caring. It all depends on the year.

[Edouble]

I define a rival as someone you would most like to beat. In that case, the order of rivalry for Duke (for me) is:

1. UNC
2. Kentucky
3. Whomever is ranked highest
4. Whomever gets us more publicity and helps with recruiting
5. Maryland because their fans are a-holes.
6. Louisville
7. Kansas
8. Arizona

After the first two, there is massive dropoff in caring. It all depends on the year.

I'm sorry, but number three is a stretch... if Wichita State or Northern Iowa were to ascend to the top spot in the polls, that would not make them our rival.

[Duvall]

I define a rival as someone you would most like to beat.

"I don't know what you mean by 'glory,' " Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!' "
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

[Duke95]

"I don't know what you mean by 'glory,' " Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!' "
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

Perhaps you have an alternative definition?

[Duke95]

I'm sorry, but number three is a stretch... if Wichita State or Northern Iowa were to ascend to the top spot in the polls, that would not make them our rival.

That's why I said there is a huge drop-off after #2.

And they would be a rival because they would be another highly ranked team, meaning a likely contender for the title.

[Edouble]

That's why I said there is a huge drop-off after #2.

And they would be a rival because they would be another highly ranked team, meaning a likely contender for the title.

Our definitions differ then. I don't think many others would agree with your definition:

Highly ranked team = Rival

But maybe they would. Just not how I remember seeing the term being used.

[NashvilleDevil]

NC State and Wake Forest are most certainly rivals of Duke on the hardwood. To deny that fact is to be ill informed of ACC and Duke basketball history. Unless, I also need to get a sense of humor about this.

[OldPhiKap]

Archrival -- UNC

Regional rivals -- State, Wake

Historic conference rivals -- rotates, has been UVA, MD, GT at times

Burgeoning conference rivals -- Syracuse, Louisville

Assorted randomly-meeting Nationsl rivals -- UConn, Georgetown, Kentucky, Michigan, Michigan State

[Duke95]

What I said:


I define a rival as someone you would most like to beat.

What Merriam-Webster says the definition of rival is:

"a person or thing that tries to defeat or be more successful than another"


What Edouble said:


Our definitions differ then. I don't think many others would agree with your definition:

Highly ranked team = Rival


Maybe you guys have a different definition of rival....

NC State and Wake are no more rivals than is UVa. We don't compete with them for a) recruits, b) exposure, c) national championships.
We compete with them maybe for fan bragging rights around the water cooler. Whoop-de-doo. You guys seriously want to beat NC State or Wake more than Kentucky?

I mean, really.

[1999ballboy]

We don't have a second rival, and I wouldn't want it any other way.

The team that we get the second rowdiest for varies almost year-to-year. In 2001 it was Maryland. In 2005 it was Wake Forest. In 2014 it was Syracuse. Other years it's our Big Ten challenge opponent, or perhaps Kentucky or UConn in a preseason tournament. That's not a rivalry. There has to be a lasting factor. Discussion of a "second rival" is an exercise in futility.

[Duke95]

Archrival -- UNC

Regional rivals -- State, Wake

Historic conference rivals -- rotates, has been UVA, MD, GT at times

Burgeoning conference rivals -- Syracuse, Louisville

Assorted randomly-meeting Nationsl rivals -- UConn, Georgetown, Kentucky, Michigan, Michigan State

I think this is a pretty good breakdown. Probably makes more sense than ranking them after UNC.

[MCFinARL]

What I said:



What Merriam-Webster says the definition of rival is:

"a person or thing that tries to defeat or be more successful than another"


What Edouble said:



Maybe you guys have a different definition of rival....

NC State and Wake are no more rivals than is UVa. We don't compete with them for a) recruits, b) exposure, c) national championships.
We compete with them maybe for fan bragging rights around the water cooler. Whoop-de-doo. You guys seriously want to beat NC State or Wake more than Kentucky?

I mean, really.

I don't really want to engage fully in the "who is our rival/what is a rival" debate, but I will say two things here. First, we do, at times, compete with NC State for recruits, including most recently Brandon Ingram (fairly recently, actually). Second, I suspect competing with teams for "bragging rights around the water cooler" is pretty important to Duke fans who actually live in North Carolina.

In the end this may be mostly a semantic argument. You are defining "rival" based on interpretation of a dictionary definition; others are defining the term based on the idea of traditional athletic rivalries, which often do have regional and conference components. Maybe it's time just to agree to disagree.

[Duke95]

It's pretty simple - it's a poor rival that's rarely if ever on your schedule in any sport.

Somebody call Pacquaio and Mayweather and tell them they're "poor" rivals. I'm sure they'd appreciate the info.



I don't really want to engage fully in the "who is our rival/what is a rival" debate, but I will say two things here. First, we do, at times, compete with NC State for recruits, including most recently Brandon Ingram (fairly recently, actually). Second, I suspect competing with teams for "bragging rights around the water cooler" is pretty important to Duke fans who actually live in North Carolina.

In the end this may be mostly a semantic argument. You are defining "rival" based on interpretation of a dictionary definition; others are defining the term based on the idea of traditional athletic rivalries, which often do have regional and conference components. Maybe it's time just to agree to disagree.

Actually, I don't think we disagree too much. That is why I quite like OPK's breakdown.
As far as competing for Brandon Ingram and other recruits, do you really want to have this debate? You know we seldom, if ever, compete for the same recruits.

[MarkD83]

Maybe a better way to determine a "rival" is by answering the following questions.

1) Do you get almost as much joy from a loss by team X as a win by your team?
2) Do you get joy over going to team X's fan board after team X has a significant loss?
3) Do you get joy over reading threads on your team's fan board about adversity facing team X?

If the answer is yes to all three then team X is an archrival.
If the answer is yes to two of these then team X is a rival.
If the answer is yes to only one of these then team X is a causal rival

[MCFinARL]

Somebody call Pacquaio and Mayweather and tell them they're "poor" rivals. I'm sure they'd appreciate the info.




Actually, I don't think we disagree too much. That is why I quite like OPK's breakdown.
As far as competing for Brandon Ingram and other recruits, do you really want to have this debate? You know we seldom, if ever, compete for the same recruits.

I agree there is not that much disagreement; that is the nature of a semantic argument. There is general agreement on how we feel about the various teams discussed--people just don't agree on the labels to apply.

Re competing for recruits with NC State, I definitely don't want to have this debate, which would probably turn on how people define "at times" versus "seldom." I am happy to acknowledge that NC State seldom competes with Duke for recruits if you will acknowledge that they compete with Duke more often than "never."

[Edouble]

In the end this may be mostly a semantic argument. You are defining "rival" based on interpretation of a dictionary definition; others are defining the term based on the idea of traditional athletic rivalries, which often do have regional and conference components. Maybe it's time just to agree to disagree.

Yes, the dictionary definition does not reflect how it is used in the sports lexicon.

[Duke95]

Yes, the dictionary definition does not reflect how it is used in the sports lexicon.

Please define it for us as it is used in the "sports lexicon".

[Duke95]

I agree there is not that much disagreement; that is the nature of a semantic argument. There is general agreement on how we feel about the various teams discussed--people just don't agree on the labels to apply.

Re competing for recruits with NC State, I definitely don't want to have this debate, which would probably turn on how people define "at times" versus "seldom." I am happy to acknowledge that NC State seldom competes with Duke for recruits if you will acknowledge that they compete with Duke more often than "never."

Agreed. I don't think we really disagree much at all.

[CDu]

This may seem like a half-empty point of view (and I am sure has been already said by someone so apologies in advance), but I would think about rivalries as "to which team would a Duke loss most upset me?" Perennially UNC tops that list (as I am a Duke fan, I live in NC, and I have a pulse). Historically, Maryland was #2 for me (I was at Duke from 1997 to 2001 as that rivalry blossomed). As Maryland got worse, and now seeing as they are not in our conference and unlikely to be a common opponent for us, they have fallen way off. UVa has moved up the list in recent years and has probably replaced Maryland for me. I haven't held too much animosity for State since the days of Inge/Thornton and later Melvin. I rarely have much interaction with State fans (oddly) except for two close friends. So a loss to State doesn't hurt me any more than any other loss.

So really, for me it is UNC, then a decent drop to UVa, then probably Wake.

[SCMatt33]

Archrival -- UNC

Regional rivals -- State, Wake

Historic conference rivals -- rotates, has been UVA, MD, GT at times

Burgeoning conference rivals -- Syracuse, Louisville

Assorted randomly-meeting Nationsl rivals -- UConn, Georgetown, Kentucky, Michigan, Michigan State

That's not a bad breakdown, but let me give it a shot:

Archrival -- UNC

Regional rivals -- State UNC, Wake UNC

Historic conference rivals -- rotates, has been UVA UNC, MD UNC, GT UNC at times

Burgeoning conference rivals -- Syracuse UNC, Louisville UNC

Assorted randomly-meeting National rivals -- UConn UNC, Georgetown UNC, Kentucky UNC, Michigan UNC, Michigan State UNC

Sorry, I couldn't resist. GTHC!

[Edouble]

Please define it for us as it is used in the "sports lexicon".

That's what this thread has devolved into. But by your dictionary definition, "a person or thing that tries to defeat or be more successful than another," every team that we play in a game would be our rival.

I mean c'mon, it's getting a little ridiculous now. You can't really think that any team that we try to defeat or be more successful than is our rival. This is getting silly. Every time we take the court we are trying to defeat someone!

[Duke95]

That's what this thread has devolved into. But by your dictionary definition, "a person or thing that tries to defeat or be more successful than another," every team that we play in a game would be our rival.

I mean c'mon, it's getting a little ridiculous now. You can't really think that any team that we try to defeat or be more successful than is our rival. This is getting silly. Every time we take the court we are trying to defeat someone!

The way I defined it, as you can see above was "I define a rival as someone you would most like to beat."

Not just anyone. But the ones we MOST want to beat. We can play Clemson or Georgia Tech every year. As long as the relative difference between us and them remains the same, the frequency of competition doesn't really affect the intensity, IMO.

[subzero02]

The way I defined it, as you can see above was "I define a rival as someone you would most like to beat."

Not just anyone. But the ones we MOST want to beat. We can play Clemson or Georgia Tech every year. As long as the relative difference between us and them remains the same, the frequency of competition doesn't really affect the intensity, IMO.

I declare the 2015 offseason games officially open.

[sagegrouse]

I declare the 2015 offseason games officially open.

Most of us agree that Maryland was "not our rival," even as a member of the ACC. Doesn't that mean that any "true rival" must eclipse Maryland as a regular opponent?

[BD80]

The way I defined it, as you can see above was "I define a rival as someone you would most like to beat."

Not just anyone. But the ones we MOST want to beat. We can play Clemson or Georgia Tech every year. As long as the relative difference between us and them remains the same, the frequency of competition doesn't really affect the intensity, IMO.

Has this thread devolved to the point that it rivals the pointlessness of a "minutes played" thread?

[MCFinARL]

Has this thread devolved to the point that it rivals the pointlessness of a "minutes played" thread?

We are at least close to the arrival of that point.

[MChambers]

We are at least close to the arrival of that point.

Don't all threads eventually approach pointlessness, as the number of posts approaches infinity?

[sagegrouse]

Don't all threads eventually approach pointlessness, as the number of posts approaches infinity?

I mean, do you expect me to carefully read a post before I compose a response? On the Internet? Seriously?

[Henderson]

Don't all threads eventually approach pointlessness, as the number of posts approaches infinity?

Yeah, but the curve is neither linear nor the same for each such thread. And each participant gets to decide when the tipping point is reached so s/he can opt out, subject to moderator intervention of course.

[jacone21]

Don't all threads eventually approach pointlessness, as the number of posts approaches infinity?

Please express in terms of an integral. Show your work.

[-bdbd]

Archrival -- UNC

Regional rivals -- State, Wake

Historic conference rivals -- rotates, has been UVA, MD, GT at times

Burgeoning conference rivals -- Syracuse, Louisville

Assorted randomly-meeting Nationsl rivals -- UConn, Georgetown, Kentucky, Michigan, Michigan State


You know you're at the apex of your profession/sport/league when EVERYONE thinks of themselves as your rival....

;)

[MIKESJ73]

Don't all threads eventually approach pointlessness, as the number of posts approaches infinity?

I heard that Jordan Davidson once counted to infinity...twice

[Neals384]

Back to the original topic...I think Seton Hall was listed as a school interested in Sheed. If he wants to be sure of starting and playing lots of minutes, and a chance to put up numbers to impress the NBA scouts...

[jacone21]

I heard that Jordan Davidson once counted to infinity...twice

That's nothing. Patrick Davidson counted backwards from infinity.

[Dev11]

I heard that Jordan Davidson once counted to infinity...twice

Hey, being the scorekeeper in a pickup game featuring Nick Horvath is no mean feat.

[Bostondevil]

Don't all threads eventually approach pointlessness, as the number of posts approaches infinity?

There is a thread on the Off Topic Board actually testing that theory right now.

[devildeac]

There is a thread on the Off Topic Board actually testing that theory right now.

I see what you did there;). Another thread is over there, too, that sometimes rivals its pointlessness:o.

[Bostondevil]

I see what you did there;). Another thread is over there, too, that sometimes rivals its pointlessness:o.

Sometimes I wish I liked beer.

[Henderson]

Sometimes I wish I liked beer.

Same here. Then I remember I do.

If Sheed goes to Maryland, I might have to like it even more.

Check that. I don't give a rip about Maryland. If Sheed goes there, it'll feel like Seton Hall for all I care.

Maryland is like that obnoxious punk neighbor you badly want to smack down. You think about ways to exact some flesh, or spray a cute phrase in Roundup across his front yard. Then he moves, and gradually you can't get up enough energy to care anymore.

Too many other punks to keep off my damn lawn.

[nocilla]

You know we seldom, if ever, compete for the same recruits.

Amile Jefferson says Hi.

[Duke95]

Amile Jefferson says Hi.

The word "seldom" says hi back.

http://dukereport.com/duke-basketball/dukes-amile-jefferson-proves-nc-state-isnt-of-accs-elite-clontz/curtis-clontz/

[devildeac]

Amile Jefferson says Hi.

John Wall and Brandon Ingram send their greetings, too.

[Duke95]

John Wall and Brandon Ingram send their greetings, too.

The discussion earlier in this thread would like to make your acquaintance as well. Maybe you and the other guy can look up the word "seldom" together.

Wall and Ingram were both NC guys. Wall's page doesn't even mention NC State.

"Wall was originally recruited by the University of Kentucky, Duke University, Georgia Tech, and the University of Kansas. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wall_%28basketball%29

[Edouble]

The discussion earlier in this thread would like to make your acquaintance as well. Maybe you and the other guy can look up the word "seldom" together.

Wall and Ingram were both NC guys. Wall's page doesn't even mention NC State.

"Wall was originally recruited by the University of Kentucky, Duke University, Georgia Tech, and the University of Kansas. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wall_%28basketball%29

Could be incorrect.

IIRC, we did not "originally" recruit Wall. We got on board very late in the game.

[devildeac]

The discussion earlier in this thread would like to make your acquaintance as well. Maybe you and the other guy can look up the word "seldom" together.

Wall and Ingram were both NC guys. Wall's page doesn't even mention NC State.

"Wall was originally recruited by the University of Kentucky, Duke University, Georgia Tech, and the University of Kansas. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wall_%28basketball%29


Could be incorrect.

IIRC, we did not "originally" recruit Wall. We got on board very late in the game.

From post #15 in the John Wall recruitment thread, quoting Jason Evans who quotes John Wall himself from a Louisville newspaper whose link is no longer available:

"He is listing a ton of schools still. Duke is generally regarded as one of the schools he is considering, but we are not at the top of his list. He did an interview with the Lousiville Courier-Journal just days ago and here is what he said about his list of schools:

Wall said Florida State, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Duke, Virginia Tech, Kansas, Miami and U of L have been showing him the most interest lately. He said UK, IU, Memphis, Baylor, N.C. State and Ohio State are among the other schools still in the mix."

Sure looks like we competed with NSCU for at least two high profile recruits in the last several years. Perhaps you'd care to redefine "seldom." Or do a bit more research. After all, DBR only had a 2500+ post thread on his recruitment that you can read right here:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?12233-John-Wall-Recruitment

[jimsumner]

I'm not sure why we're discussing John Wall on a Sulaimon thread but NC State devoted a lot more time and resources to recruiting Wall than did Duke.

Seton Hall is losing Sterling Gibbs so they could be a rational landing spot for Sulaimon.

[Duke95]

From post #15 in the John Wall recruitment thread, quoting Jason Evans who quotes John Wall himself from a Louisville newspaper whose link is no longer available:

"He is listing a ton of schools still. Duke is generally regarded as one of the schools he is considering, but we are not at the top of his list. He did an interview with the Lousiville Courier-Journal just days ago and here is what he said about his list of schools:

Wall said Florida State, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Duke, Virginia Tech, Kansas, Miami and U of L have been showing him the most interest lately. He said UK, IU, Memphis, Baylor, N.C. State and Ohio State are among the other schools still in the mix."

Sure looks like we competed with NSCU for at least two high profile recruits in the last several years. Perhaps you'd care to redefine "seldom." Or do a bit more research. After all, DBR only had a 2500+ post thread on his recruitment that you can read right here:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?12233-John-Wall-Recruitment

The N&O wasn't all that convinced Wall ever seriously considered NC State. And if you think marginally Wall, marginally Ingram, and Jefferson means we compete with NC State for recruits, perhaps you should say hi to the rest of the people we recruited. Was NC State a real competitor for Okafor, Winslow, Jones, Allen, Parker, Irving, Rivers, Dunleavy, Deng, Brand, JWill, Battier, etc.?

[sagegrouse]

You know you're at the apex of your profession/sport/league when EVERYONE thinks of themselves as your rival....

;)

ACC hoops, as it stands now, has the potential to generate huge rivalries involving Duke: Duke-Syracuse, even today, appears to be second to Duke-UNC. But Duke-Notre Dame has potential. Similarly, rivalries with Louisville (there's that Pitino guy) and Virginia (up-and-coming coach, winner of two ACC regular season championships in a row). And then Duke-NC State could be on an upward swing, if NC State begins to contend in for ACC championships.

[Duke95]

Ran into this article about Wall. Very interesting to read that Wall's recruitment may have been the start of Coach K's acceptance of the OAD reality. He basically moved from acceptance to dominance in what, 5 years? Quite impressive.

http://aboverim.blogspot.com/2009/03/dukes-pursuit-of-raleighs-john-wall.html

[devildeac]

The N&O wasn't all that convinced Wall ever seriously considered NC State. And if you think marginally Wall, marginally Ingram, and Jefferson means we compete with NC State for recruits, perhaps you should say hi to the rest of the people we recruited. Was NC State a real competitor for Okafor, Winslow, Jones, Allen, Parker, Irving, Rivers, Dunleavy, Deng, Brand, JWill, Battier, etc.?

Doesn't matter what the N&O thinks as Wall himself listed NCSU as one of his considerations. Read my quote from Jason Evans, which he quoted from the Louisville paper. Read Jim Sumner's quote above. There are indeed different recruiting areas/prospects/areas/regions zip codes for the two schools recruiting "nets." And for your folks listed above, I'll add 2013 prospects Matt Jones, Julius Randle and Austin Nichols and none other than Quinn Cook from 2011. And, looking forward, names like Dennis Smith, Jayson Tatum and Tyus Battle from 2016 have or had NCSU on their lists according to 247 sports (http://ncstate.247sports.com/Season/2016-Basketball/Targets). I'll admit, we are more likely to land a recruit in the top 30 than NCSU but we indeed are competing with them much more often than "seldom" as you seem to believe.

[Duke95]

Doesn't matter what the N&O thinks as Wall himself listed NCSU as one of his considerations. Read my quote from Jason Evans, which he quoted from the Louisville paper. Read Jim Sumner's quote above. There are indeed different recruiting areas/prospects/areas/regions zip codes for the two schools recruiting "nets." And for your folks listed above, I'll add 2013 prospects Matt Jones, Julius Randle and Austin Nichols and none other than Quinn Cook from 2011. And, looking forward, names like Dennis Smith, Jayson Tatum and Tyus Battle from 2016 have or had NCSU on their lists according to 247 sports (http://ncstate.247sports.com/Season/2016-Basketball/Targets). I'll admit, we are more likely to land a recruit in the top 30 than NCSU but we indeed are competing with them much more often than "seldom" as you seem to believe.

How many times we have lost a recruit to NC State lately?

If one side's bringing an Uzi and the other's shooting spitballs, it's not really a rivalry, the fable of David and Goliath notwithstanding.
Sure, a recruit may list a lot of schools. Doesn't mean they're really much of a favorite.

[devildeac]

How many times we have lost a recruit to NC State lately?

If one side's bringing an Uzi and the other's shooting spitballs, it's not really a rivalry, the fable of David and Goliath notwithstanding.
Sure, a recruit may list a lot of schools. Doesn't mean they're really much of a favorite.

Quit changing the argument. First, you said, seldom. Really ends up being somewhere between occasionally and a bit more often than you might think. Then you listed other recruits that NCSU wasn't even pursuing. So I countered with recruits that had Duke, NCSU and several others on their list. Then you change it to favorites, weapons and a Bible story. If Duke and NCSU are on a recruit's list, whether it's 2 or 12 schools, K is most certainly competing with the Pack for that guy to choose Duke. I'm quite happy that K has many more basketball court and recruiting wins than State.

[Duke95]

Quit changing the argument. First, you said, seldom. Really ends up being somewhere between occasionally and a bit more often than you might think. Then you listed other recruits that NCSU wasn't even pursuing. So I countered with recruits that had Duke, NCSU and several others on their list. Then you change it to favorites, weapons and a Bible story. If Duke and NCSU are on a recruit's list, whether it's 2 or 12 schools, K is most certainly competing with the Pack for that guy to choose Duke. I'm quite happy that K has many more basketball court and recruiting wins than State.

Your argument is weak, and you know it. A recruit has all sorts of schools on his "list". It doesn't mean they're really in much of a competition with the top contenders.

A lot of riders "compete" in the Tour de France. In reality, the pool of actual "rivals" for the overall is far, far smaller.

[sagegrouse]

Your argument is weak, and you know it. A recruit has all sorts of schools on his "list". It doesn't mean they're really in much of a competition with the top contenders.

A lot of riders "compete" in the Tour de France. In reality, the pool of actual "rivals" for the overall is far, far smaller.

Sorry, Duke95, I know DevilDeac and, in my opinion, he is the most low-key, pleasant guy on the list. Do you think you should rethink your approach to DBR?

Kindly, Sage Grouse

[Edouble]

Your argument is weak, and you know it. A recruit has all sorts of schools on his "list". It doesn't mean they're really in much of a competition with the top contenders.

A lot of riders "compete" in the Tour de France. In reality, the pool of actual "rivals" for the overall is far, far smaller.

You are presuming to know what devildeac thinks about his own argument, as well as what recruits think about the schools on their list.

[Duke95]

Sorry, Duke95, I know DevilDeac and, in my opinion, he is the most low-key, pleasant guy on the list. Do you think you should rethink your approach to DBR?

Kindly, Sage Grouse

Good to know, SG.

I will absolutely re-think my approach to devildeac.


You are presuming to know what devildeac thinks about his own argument, as well as what recruits think about the schools on their list.

No, I am not. I rely on a) previous recruit choices and b) what the "insiders" say about their probabilities of choosing a certain school and I see that a particular choices is seldom ever made in favor of Duke and "insiders" hardly give that choice any substantial probability of occurrence.

[devildeac]

Your argument is weak, and you know it. A recruit has all sorts of schools on his "list". It doesn't mean they're really in much of a competition with the top contenders.

A lot of riders "compete" in the Tour de France. In reality, the pool of actual "rivals" for the overall is far, far smaller.

I'm through with this one. I've researched, assembled facts, links and names, countered your shifting sands/moving goalposts and that's what you come back with? You've had similar problems with another poster or two here recently and I will now disengage myself from this fruitless bantering.

[Duke95]

I'm through with this one. I've researched, assembled facts, links and names, countered your shifting sands/moving goalposts and that's what you come back with? You've had similar problems with another poster or two here recently and I will now disengage myself from this fruitless bantering.

I respect your decision to disengage yourself.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Wow, this group gets testy in the off-season.

[mattman91]

Can we change the title of this thread? I get sick when I read it.

[bob blue devil]

I'm through with this one. I've researched, assembled facts, links and names, countered your shifting sands/moving goalposts and that's what you come back with? You've had similar problems with another poster or two here recently and I will now disengage myself from this fruitless bantering.

Agreed. I think it's more than a couple of posters who are tired of his/her routine and its occupation of thread space.

[Duke95]

Agreed. I think it's more than a couple of posters who are tired of his/her routine and its occupation of thread space.

His. Breaks my heart really to hear some people may not enjoy my banter.

[OldPhiKap]

His. Breaks my heart really to hear some people may not enjoy my banter.


Medium infractions. Could be from Cat 3 to 5. Includes repeated minor infractions. You need to think about how your style fits with DBR.

You've clearly stepped over the line, and probably embarrassed or offended someone. Over the history of DBR, we've found these things tear at the very fabric of our community:


Incivility. You are free to disagree with other posters; all we ask that you respectfully disagree. Challenge the content of the post: point out flaws in their logic, dispute facts, or counter the argument respectfully. Attacking the poster by being snarky, name-calling, or engaging in a flame war is not tolerated. Avoid "gotcha" posts.


If you intend on hanging around, perhaps you should take the friendly advice a few folks have tried to offer. That's not my quote, it's the rules of the board.

Picking a personal fight with dd will probably not end well. again, friendly advice to use or ignore as you see fit. Noy picking on you.

[jimsumner]

If you intend on hanging around, perhaps you should take the friendly advice a few folks have tried to offer. That's not my quote, it's the rules of the board.

Picking a personal fight with dd will probably not end well. again, friendly advice to use or ignore as you see fit. Noy picking on you.

Good advice. Seconded. Or thirded. You get the drift.

[Duke95]

If you intend on hanging around, perhaps you should take the friendly advice a few folks have tried to offer. That's not my quote, it's the rules of the board.

Picking a personal fight with dd will probably not end well. again, friendly advice to use or ignore as you see fit. Noy picking on you.

Completely understand and appreciate the post. What I have found is that some posters here appear to think they are immune to these rules because they have been here for a long time.

So, when other posters say "John Wall says hi" or whatever, that qualifies as a "snarky" "gotcha" post, so I tend to respond in kind. I'm more than happy to tone it down but certain thin-skinned posters (not referring to you at all) might want to refrain from dishing it out if they're allergic to taking it.

[BD80]

His. Breaks my heart really to hear some people may not enjoy my banter.

Lack of humor can be ignored.

Lack of respect to others, particularly regulars, is very irritating.

FWIW: Perseverance does not equal banter, and certainly does not equal humor.

[Duke95]

Lack of humor can be ignored.

Lack of respect to others, particularly regulars, is very irritating.

FWIW: Perseverance does not equal banter, and certainly does not equal humor.

Your opinion is appreciated. Perseverance is one of my traits. Some people get irritated when I challenge their positions, regardless of how I do it.

[-jk]

Your opinion is appreciated. Perseverance is one of my traits. Some people get irritated when I challenge their positions, regardless of how I do it.

Humph. I have a kid who perseverates. Not so fun...

-jk

[OldPhiKap]

Humph. I have a kid who perseverates. Not so fun...

-jk

I have a client who prevaricates. Not my favorite.

My son perspirates like he is precipitating. Fascinating.

[-jk]

I have a client who prevaricates. Not my favorite.

My son perspirates like he is precipitating. Fascinating.

Heh! Don't rain on our parade!

-jk

[killerleft]

Agreed. I think it's more than a couple of posters who are tired of his/her routine and its occupation of thread space.

Well, some people are never wrong. Some others must have the last word. Being both is irksome, but serves as a caution to the masses. That's why I'm careful to say something stupid on DBR at regular intervals.:)

[Duke95]

Well, some people are never wrong. Some others must have the last word. Being both is irksome, but serves as a caution to the masses. That's why I'm careful to say something stupid on DBR at regular intervals.:)

Don't be shy about piling on. Plenty of room left in the Hatemobile. Just ask -jk to put down the 5th row. ;)

[MCFinARL]

I have a client who prevaricates. Not my favorite.

My son perspirates like he is precipitating. Fascinating.

Probably better, in the long run, that your client is the prevaricator and your son the perspirer than the other way around.

This thread is peregrinating precipitously toward the peripheral.

[Furniture]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[-jk]

I think this one has run its course...

-jk