Welcome to Duke, Antonio Vrankovic!!!

[conmanlhughes]

Per Evan Daniels
https://mobile.twitter.com/evandaniels

[Troublemaker]

Welcome, Antonio, son of Stojko, who played in the NBA.

A ‏@A11Vrankovic (https://twitter.com/A11Vrankovic)23m23 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/A11Vrankovic/status/588505239637991424)
Proud to announce that I'm committing to Duke University! #GoBlueDevils (https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoBlueDevils?src=hash)


Evan Daniels @EvanDaniels (https://twitter.com/EvanDaniels) · 6m6 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/EvanDaniels/status/588510307833798656)

Watched Antonio Vrankovic play in Late December. Big, strong post player w/ good hands & nice touch. Good area rebounder too.

[Ichabod Drain]

Welcom Antonio!!! He is a big dude, wonder if a redshirt is in his future?

[OldPhiKap]

Because you want video:

http://youtu.be/yDI6-D2vyhs

[gocanes0506]

He looks like a Marshall Plumlee. Unless he blows the doors off in the summer pickup games and October practice, he'll redshirt.

[Newton_14]

Because you want video:

http://youtu.be/yDI6-D2vyhs

Hope he works on his footwork. I counted at least 6 walks and stopped halfway through the video. Walk number 6 was actually called. He does the bunny hop with both feet almost every time. Definitely a below the rim player too, but he has good size, and will likely add a lot of strength over his 4 seasons. Show good hands a nice touch around the rim though. Let's hope he is patient, willing to work, and content to hang around all 4 years even if he doesn't get a lot of PT early on.

[roywhite]

He looks like a Marshall Plumlee. Unless he blows the doors off in the summer pickup games and October practice, he'll redshirt.

I guess a redshirt is possible. I like his size and he seems to have somewhat of a shooting touch.

Glad to have him on board!

[OldPhiKap]

Is he 6'9" or 6'11"? I have seen both.

Look forward to seeing him play after a few years in the weight room.

[crdaul]

And he can shoot free throws! Welcome!

[Troublemaker]

10 more seconds of footage here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oamaD1ve-Jc&feature=youtu.be&t=35s

He looks athletic here. Dunks and blocks shots.

[Troublemaker]

3-minute high school feature on Antonio here: https://vimeo.com/122586308

[Ichabod Drain]

Because you want video:

http://youtu.be/yDI6-D2vyhs

Keep in mind this is from 2013. Good hands but it makes you really appreciate how mobile Marshall is at seven feet.

[Newton_14]

10 more seconds of footage here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oamaD1ve-Jc&feature=youtu.be&t=35s

He looks athletic here. Dunks and blocks shots.

The next video after that one has a killer mixtape on Grayson from his Sr year. Wow. Stud. Killer dunks, slashes, blocks, assists. Well worth the watch.

[mattman91]

Saw this coming...

Any photos of him standing in front of cinderblocks?

[UrinalCake]

Reminds me of Zoubek's high school highlight videos. Just a whole lot bigger than the dudes around him. Nice to have a big body who can develop for four years.

[dukelion]

I like the trend of getting bigs who'll be around for 3-5 years. After watching Okafor dominate this year it would be nice to have lots of options to potentially replicate that.

[devildeac]

6'11"?

Got no one to coach him:rolleyes:.

(kidding)

Good to have him on the truck.

[Duke76]

The next video after that one has a killer mixtape on Grayson from his Sr year. Wow. Stud. Killer dunks, slashes, blocks, assists. Well worth the watch.

you meant this one, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRyLYcMgNFk

love his black knickers or whatever you call those...dude has some moves he hasn't used in a year,,,can't wait to see them next yr

[BD80]

As it "stands" now, we should have the greatest average roster height in college basketball.

[Furniture]

He looked good playing against those hobbits.

[Olympic Fan]

This is a great long-term pickup for the program.

I expect very little impact on next year's team, but after 2016 Marshall and Amile will be gone and we'll be down to Sean Obi and Chase Jeter (assuming Chase isn't one and done) in the post, plus whoever is signed in the next class (Hopefully Harry Giles, but he's a 6-10 inside/out guy). We'll need Vrankovic to contribute as a sophomore or redshirt freshman (whichever he is in 2016-17).

Sounds like a kid who very much wants to come and understands that he has a lot of work to put in before he plays. That's great to have success, we need to balance the one-and-done talent with the long-term guys.

So welcome to Duke, Antonio ... look forward to seeing you wear the Blue and White.

[langdonfan]

This is a great long-term pickup for the program.

I expect very little impact on next year's team, but after 2016 Marshall and Amile will be gone and we'll be down to Sean Obi and Chase Jeter (assuming Chase isn't one and done) in the post, plus whoever is signed in the next class (Hopefully Harry Giles, but he's a 6-10 inside/out guy). We'll need Vrankovic to contribute as a sophomore or redshirt freshman (whichever he is in 2016-17).

Sounds like a kid who very much wants to come and understands that he has a lot of work to put in before he plays. That's great to have success, we need to balance the one-and-done talent with the long-term guys.

So welcome to Duke, Antonio ... look forward to seeing you wear the Blue and White.

Bingo! Great long-term pickup, LOVE the fact that it seems this is where he really wants to be. Welcome Antonio!!

[ricks68]

Hope he works on his footwork. I counted at least 6 walks and stopped halfway through the video. Walk number 6 was actually called. He does the bunny hop with both feet almost every time. Definitely a below the rim player too, but he has good size, and will likely add a lot of strength over his 4 seasons. Show good hands a nice touch around the rim though. Let's hope he is patient, willing to work, and content to hang around all 4 years even if he doesn't get a lot of PT early on.

Saw at least the same amount of walks as you did, plus what looked like an absence of hops, too. The hands appeared to me to be good as well. I noted, however, that he did have some fluidity in his movements once he got the ball, coupled with patience. A couple of Red Bulls (yuk!) might work well with this young man, and then we got a real keeper. I would bet that with Capel's coaching, as an alternative to the Red Bull, we might well have picked up a solid, moose of a big man that could help power us to another run to the FF in a few years.:) I am pleased. Welcome to Duke, Antonio. We are happy to have you become part of the family.:D

ricks

[ricks68]

10 more seconds of footage here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oamaD1ve-Jc&feature=youtu.be&t=35s

He looks athletic here. Dunks and blocks shots.

Hey, now that 10 seconds is impressive! Now, I am even more pleased. Very smooth. Sweet.:D

ricks

[ricks68]

Well, after seeing the last video that shows him at Pine Crest School, which I am familiar with, I can relate to everyone that he shouldn't have any academic issues, either. Just like Justise, who went to a top private school in Houston, Antonio has been in the same kind of excellent academic environment in Florida. How do we seem to come up with these admirable young men year after year? So proud to be a Dukie!:)

ricks

[miramar]

But I don't think he can dunk.

At least he has good form on his free throws.

http://www.dukechronicle.com/blogs/bluezone/posts/2015/04/16/3-star-center-antonio-vrankovic-commits-duke-basketball#.VS8v8_nF-So

[mo.st.dukie]

Keep in mind this is from 2013.

Yep, it was from his sophomore year. He has improved a lot in the last year.

[ricks68]

But I don't think he can dunk.

At least he has good form on his free throws.

http://www.dukechronicle.com/blogs/bluezone/posts/2015/04/16/3-star-center-antonio-vrankovic-commits-duke-basketball#.VS8v8_nF-So

I thought the same until I checked out the other short videos.

ricks

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Well, after seeing the last video that shows him at Pine Crest School, which I am familiar with, I can relate to everyone that he shouldn't have any academic issues, either. Just like Justise, who went to a top private school in Houston, Antonio has been in the same kind of excellent academic environment in Florida. How do we seem to come up with these admirable young men year after year? So proud to be a Dukie!:)

ricks
I went to Pine Crest too! Last bball star they had was Brandon Knight. We were top of his list until we got Kyrie!

Welcome to Duke!

[dukelifer]

3-minute high school feature on Antonio here: https://vimeo.com/122586308

Looks to be a very coachable and mature kid. He is big - a very solid base- and decently mobile. He scored 55 points in a game tying Brandon Knight's record. That shows something. This looks to be a a kid who will develop into a solid college center. You cannot teach 270! Coach K has now done the one and done thing- next challenge- recruit and mentor under the radar Euro kids. Now that Duke has a campus in China- will we see a few recruits from there? ;)

[dukelifer]

But I don't think he can dunk.

At least he has good form on his free throws.

http://www.dukechronicle.com/blogs/bluezone/posts/2015/04/16/3-star-center-antonio-vrankovic-commits-duke-basketball#.VS8v8_nF-So

Yes he can - now that he has grown into that big body

[westwall]

From the Chronicle:
"Vrankovic's commitment will bolster a frontcourt that will include Jeter, redshirt senior Marshall Plumlee and senior Amile Jefferson."

No mention of Obi here; any significance to the absence??

[BD80]

I went to Pine Crest too! Last bball star they had was Brandon Knight. We were top of his list until we got Kyrie!

Welcome to Duke!

Should it trouble us that Coach K has been spending so much time in Florida recently? Rivers, Allen, now Vrankovic. We have not had many Florida players in Coach K's tenure, now 3 in the last 4 years?

Are we sure its been basketball players he's been scouting in the retirement capitol of the US?

[miramar]

From the Chronicle:
"Vrankovic's commitment will bolster a frontcourt that will include Jeter, redshirt senior Marshall Plumlee and senior Amile Jefferson."

No mention of Obi here; any significance to the absence??

He's been drafted by GQ.

[arnie]

From the Chronicle:
"Vrankovic's commitment will bolster a frontcourt that will include Jeter, redshirt senior Marshall Plumlee and senior Amile Jefferson."

No mention of Obi here; any significance to the absence??

Wow that would be a huge hit. Hopefully just someone at Chronicle not paying attention.

[Elev8ion]

Looks to be a very coachable and mature kid. He is big - a very solid base- and decently mobile. He scored 55 points in a game tying Brandon Knight's record. That shows something. This looks to be a a kid who will develop into a solid college center. You cannot teach 270! Coach K has now done the one and done thing- next challenge- recruit and mentor under the radar Euro kids. Now that Duke has a campus in China- will we see a few recruits from there? ;)

Yao Ming's son has Duke on his short list.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Every team can always use a beefy, buff, Eastern European basketball player. And Duke continues the trend of successfully recruiting the sons of former NBA players.

Yay Duke!

[OldPhiKap]

"Vrank the Tank"

You heard it here first.

[duke blue brewcrew]

"Vrank the Tank"

You heard it here first.

Well played OPK, that has staying power!

[FerryFor50]

Hopefully just someone at Chronicle not paying attention.

Wouldn't be the first time, amirite?

[FerryFor50]

From the Chronicle:
"Vrankovic's commitment will bolster a frontcourt that will include Jeter, redshirt senior Marshall Plumlee and senior Amile Jefferson."

No mention of Obi here; any significance to the absence??

I think it had more to do with Obi being a forgotten man since he didn't play this season. Or at least an unproven commodity.

[Henderson]

Vran ko' vick?

Er... given his size: Mr. Vran ko' vick ... ?

[Furniture]

I am a real Vranker for saying this but I think he looks really good!

[Henderson]

Vran ko' vick?

Er... given his size: Mr. Vran ko' vick ... ?

When I googled, "How to pronounce vrankovic," I got both the above and "Vrank' oh vick"

Obviously my years in the Croatian underground didn't yield much linguistically.

[FerryFor50]

When I googled, "How to pronounce vrankovic," I got both the above and "Vrank' oh vick"

Obviously my years in the Croatian underground didn't yield much linguistically.

I always thought the -vic was "vich" - similar to Drazen Petrovic.

http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/petrovic

[Henderson]

I think it had more to do with Obi being a forgotten man since he didn't play this season. Or at least an unproven commodity.

I may be misremembering, but it seems to me at this point in Rodney's sit-out year we had a lot of reports about how good Hood had been in practice while sitting out. Nobody seems to be talking much about how Obi's been developing. Am I just imagining the disparity?

[FerryFor50]

I may be misremembering, but it seems to me at this point in Rodney's sit-out year we had a lot of reports about how good Hood had been in practice while sitting out. Nobody seems to be talking much about how Obi's been developing. Am I just imagining the disparity?

Well, remember how friggin good Rodney Hood ended up being? Same with Seth Curry.

To me, Obi has always been - and likely will always be - considered a lunch pail guy. Do the dirty work down low, grab boards and punish opposing players physically.

I have never been under the illusion he'd be much more, even with his 11ppg average at Rice.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/66760/sean-obi

I mean, you don't average 11ppg in D1 by accident, regardless of competition. But still... I prefer low expectations here.

[Henderson]

I always thought the -vic was "vich" - similar to Drazen Petrovic.

http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/petrovic

Agreed. Then I googled Vrankovic.... Hence my question.

[Henderson]

Well, remember how friggin good Rodney Hood ended up being? Same with Seth Curry.

To me, Obi has always been - and likely will always be - considered a lunch pail guy. Do the dirty work down low, grab boards and punish opposing players physically.

I don't doubt the assessment, but is it based on reports of his sit-year at Duke or his performance at Rice? Not looking for Obi plaudits, just info about how he's doing. Seems mighty quiet out there. Yeah, too quiet.

[FerryFor50]

I don't doubt the assessment, but is it based on reports of his sit-year at Duke or his performance at Rice?

I'm personally basing it on his performance at Rice. But I've read things here and there about how he's helped Marshall improve a bit in practice.

I'm just assuming that no news isn't bad news. Just that he's going to likely be more glue guy than star player at first.

Will be nice to have him banging on Kennedy Meeks twice a year, though.

[dukelifer]

Yao Ming's son has Duke on his short list.

Considering his son is not even born (only has a daughter)- that is an impressive job of recruiting by the staff

[dukelifer]

Should it trouble us that Coach K has been spending so much time in Florida recently? Rivers, Allen, now Vrankovic. We have not had many Florida players in Coach K's tenure, now 3 in the last 4 years?

Are we sure its been basketball players he's been scouting in the retirement capitol of the US?

Texas too. Both Texas and Florida have no state taxes.

[Troublemaker]

Here's his pop packing Jordan's shot in the Olympics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shRxigZBzuQ

[dukelifer]

Well, remember how friggin good Rodney Hood ended up being? Same with Seth Curry.

To me, Obi has always been - and likely will always be - considered a lunch pail guy. Do the dirty work down low, grab boards and punish opposing players physically.

I have never been under the illusion he'd be much more, even with his 11ppg average at Rice.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/66760/sean-obi

I mean, you don't average 11ppg in D1 by accident, regardless of competition. But still... I prefer low expectations here.

Obi like Vrankovic were under the radar guys in high school - maybe K is looking to do a Gary Williams and build a championship team of high school no names.

[Henderson]

Considering his son is not even born (only has a daughter) - that is an impressive job of recruiting by the staff

Once again, Coach K and his staff reach into the womb of college basketball to do what no other program can do. Genius, I tell you. Pure genius.

[Henderson]

Texas too. Both Texas and Florida have no state taxes.

Don't forget Nevada -- also no state income tax. K spends a lot more time in Vegas than in Florida.

[Henderson]

"Vrank the Tank"

You heard it here first.

Yep. And duly noted.

Trademark it early my friend. You'll thank me later.

[jcannon]

Hope he works on his footwork. I counted at least 6 walks and stopped halfway through the video. Walk number 6 was actually called. He does the bunny hop with both feet almost every time. Definitely a below the rim player too, but he has good size, and will likely add a lot of strength over his 4 seasons. Show good hands a nice touch around the rim though. Let's hope he is patient, willing to work, and content to hang around all 4 years even if he doesn't get a lot of PT early on.

While it may technically be a walk, it could also be considered All-ACC caliber footwork...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O4Kp4A1PiU

[roywhite]

Obi like Vrankovic were under the radar guys in high school - maybe K is looking to do a Gary Williams and build a championship team of high school no names.

Heck, Frank Kaminsky was a 3-star developmental player, who barely contributed his first 2 years.

Vrankovic has a nice shooting touch, from what I read. That's a good start.

[Saratoga2]

Coach K wouldn't recruit him unless he saw reasonable potential. (6'11", 270 is a good head start). At this point in time we have a front court with Sean (the unknown but physically imposing center), Marshall (the athletic but limited center), Antonio (a developmental center), Amile (excellent defending forward who may show some offense), Chase (mobile with some skills but needs to show toughness)

I don't know how to characterize Justin (may grow to from court size like his father but is definitely a developmental player at this time)

Looks like our front court is filled for the coming season, now on to the back court. Matt, Luke and Grayson are a good start, but we need a PG and a SF. I am confident that the coaching staffs knows their needs and will work diligently to address them.

[CDu]

I always thought the -vic was "vich" - similar to Drazen Petrovic.

http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/petrovic


When I googled, "How to pronounce vrankovic," I got both the above and "Vrank' oh vick"

Obviously my years in the Croatian underground didn't yield much linguistically.

Pretty sure "itch" is correct. I'd think it would be pronounced "VRONK-oh-vitch". I would suspect that google is off.

[Henderson]

Pretty sure "itch" is correct. I'd think it would be pronounced "VRONK-oh-vitch". I would suspect that google is off.

Wrong info from the internet? Theoretically possible, I suppose, but I know of no examples. I'm much more comfortable with suppositions from posters to a fan board where we don't have that problem.

We're obviously in need of some authoritative source for how HE pronounces his name.

Vronk the Tonk doesn't work for me.

[duke09hms]

Maybe one day, he'll get his own book, "A Vronking to Remember."

http://amzn.com/B00RN7TNHE

[DukeUsul]

It would appear the Croatian pronunciation of the letter "c" can depend on what kind of diacritic it has. They are often left out when the names are put into English writing, so further research would be needed to determine if the last letter of his last name should have one. But it sounds like it would either be a "ts" or a "ch" sound, not a "k"

http://mylanguages.org/croatian_alphabet.php

This forum thread suggests last name pronunciation is usually "-ich" similar to the Russian.

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=621516

[Henderson]

It would appear the Croatian pronunciation of the letter "c" can depend on what kind of diacritic it has. They are often left out when the names are put into English writing, so further research would be needed to determine if the last letter of his last name should have one. But it sounds like it would either be a "ts" or a "ch" sound, not a "k"

http://mylanguages.org/croatian_alphabet.php

This forum thread suggests last name pronunciation is usually "-ich" similar to the Russian.

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=621516

Useful. But surely someone knows how he pronounces his own name.

[FerryFor50]

Useful. But surely someone knows how he pronounces his own name.

Maybe Marv Albert knows...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khlp2iyOuOU

[Henderson]

Maybe Marv Albert knows...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khlp2iyOuOU

Sportscaster pronunciations may not be the gold standard.

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2014/11/06/20141105-starters-greek-names.nba/

[NM Duke Fan]

vitch is the more likely pronunciation, at least in the homeland of his ancestors. This is an ending found in Slavic languages in general, meaning "son of." In Russian Frankovich, in Polish Frankowicz, etc would be similar.

Lots of cognates in these languages, the word for wolf: Volk in Russian, Wilk in Polish, Vuk in Serbian.

Anyways, glad to have another player who can develop over time, and one with a good lineage!

[gumbomoop]

Sportscaster pronunciations may not be the gold standard.

True enough, with one exception that I know of: Derek Rae, European and world football. Platinum standard, or diamond, whatever's the highest possible.

[devildeac]

Sportscaster pronunciations may not be the gold standard.

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2014/11/06/20141105-starters-greek-names.nba/


Shoot, even the POTUS mispronounces names. From the LTE over on the OTB:


05-22-2008, 01:22 PM #2062 Lavabe's Avatar Lavabe Lavabe is offline
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Red face Forgive me colchar, for I have sinned
Quote Originally Posted by colchar View Post
Forever. I can't remember how long the "Bush Mispronounces Battier" thread was but I'm pretty sure this one must have beaten it by now (if not, it is definietly close to doing so).
Forgive me, but just how DID President Bush pronounce Battier?

5-22-2008, 01:27 PM #2064 billybreen's Avatar billybreen billybreen is offline
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Join Date
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Quote Originally Posted by ugadevil View Post
So if someone were to find that thread and begin posting a ridiculous amount, would we have a competition going? Could this attempt at "Longest Thread Ever" be sabotaged? I'm not sayin'....I'm just saying.
Since that thread was too old even to appear in the old board's archive, good luck finding it.

[Olympic Fan]

You can always count on IC (Inside Carolina ... aka Idiot's Central) for comedy gold.

Just visited and saw that they had a thread on Vrankovic's commitment to Duke. It started out with a series of posts about how awful he was. Then one poster suggests that he's better than UNC's lone recruit, Luke Maye.

Wow, the response was hilarious. I didn't realize that May is either the second coming of Larry Bird or the next Dirk Nowitzki. I laughed so hard, I spit up my last slp of coffee.

[roywhite]

You can always count on IC (Inside Carolina ... aka Idiot's Central) for comedy gold.

Just visited and saw that they had a thread on Vrankovic's commitment to Duke. It started out with a series of posts about how awful he was. Then one poster suggests that he's better than UNC's lone recruit, Luke Maye.

Wow, the response was hilarious. I didn't realize that May is either the second coming of Larry Bird or the next Dirk Nowitzki. I laughed so hard, I spit up my last slp of coffee.

Yeah, I figured Maye was there mostly as a legacy recruit for his dad, Deems Maye. He's ranked #95 in the ESPN top 100. FWIW, he drew 21 of 22 votes for the AP North Carolina All-State team (Ingram was the only other player with such support, also named on 21 of 22 ballots). So we'll see; he may be better than expected; he'll probably be a gung-ho true Tarheel, which Ol' Roy will like.

[Olympic Fan]

Yeah, I figured Maye was there mostly as a legacy recruit for his dad, Deems Maye. He's ranked #95 in the ESPN top 100. FWIW, he drew 21 of 22 votes for the AP North Carolina All-State team (Ingram was the only other player with such support, also named on 21 of 22 ballots). So we'll see; he may be better than expected; he'll probably be a gung-ho true Tarheel, which Ol' Roy will like.

I obviously don't know, but a professional recruiting guy I respect told me that Maye's upside is Lee Melchionni (our legacy recruit), who was similarly ranked coming out of high school. Lee eventually became a nice player and contributor for some good Duke teams, especially as a junior and senior (he averaged 1.0 ppg and 1.5 ppg in his first two years). My friend suggested that Maye would be a nice replacement for Jackson Simmons.

As for the Maye vs. Vrankovic gauntlet, tossed down by our IC "friends" -- I think it will be fun to watch. I don't expect any immediate contribution from either, but both will eventually be in position to play -- if they can. I think Vrankovic has a LOT more upside down the road, but, hey, I'm biased just like the IC guys (the difference is that I know it and they don't).

[CDu]

I obviously don't know, but a professional recruiting guy I respect told me that Maye's upside is Lee Melchionni (our legacy recruit), who was similarly ranked coming out of high school. Lee eventually became a nice player and contributor for some good Duke teams, especially as a junior and senior (he averaged 1.0 ppg and 1.5 ppg in his first two years). My friend suggested that Maye would be a nice replacement for Jackson Simmons.

As for the Maye vs. Vrankovic gauntlet, tossed down by our IC "friends" -- I think it will be fun to watch. I don't expect any immediate contribution from either, but both will eventually be in position to play -- if they can. I think Vrankovic has a LOT more upside down the road, but, hey, I'm biased just like the IC guys (the difference is that I know it and they don't).

I'll be quite surprised if either player exceeds the in-game contributions that Jackson Simmons provided for UNC. But given that Vrankovic is 6'11", I'd agree that the chances of him providing more are slightly higher (just 'cause can't teach tall).

[BD80]

Yao Ming's son has Duke on his short list.

There is NOTHING pertaining to Yao Ming that should be referred to as "short."


Yeah, I figured Maye was there mostly as a legacy recruit for his dad, Deems Maye. He's ranked #95 in the ESPN top 100. FWIW, he drew 21 of 22 votes for the AP North Carolina All-State team (Ingram was the only other player with such support, also named on 21 of 22 ballots). So we'll see; he may be better than expected; he'll probably be a gung-ho true Tarheel, which Ol' Roy will like.

Sounds like he Maye-be future bus-wheel fodder.

[Ichabod Drain]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=OH2vA1koPIY

Senior season mixtape

[DukeFanSince1990]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=OH2vA1koPIY

Senior season mixtape

wow.

[OldPhiKap]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=OH2vA1koPIY

Senior season mixtape


wow.

Big growth from the 2013 clip I linked before.

A few years with Coach Capel and Coach James -- should develop nicely.

[johnb]

He looks great. Though his team was playing Calvary Christian and Zion Lutheran, he seems like a perfect guy to round out a potentially great team. Welcome aboard!

[Kedsy]

wow.

Really? You're seeing wow? Even with this better highlight reel, I'm still seeing a below the rim guy who can get a lot of blocks if the people taking the shots are 8 inches shorter than he is. Hopefully he can play strong defense, which is very valuable. But, no offense intended toward Antonio, the highlight reels don't show me a game-changer.

[FireOgilvie]

Really? You're seeing wow? Even with this better highlight reel, I'm still seeing a below the rim guy who can get a lot of blocks if the people taking the shots are 8 inches shorter than he is. Hopefully he can play strong defense, which is very valuable. But, no offense intended toward Antonio, the highlight reels don't show me a game-changer.

It's hard to tell much from a video like this, but it seems like he moves really well for a 7 footer with his build. He's not a freak athlete/Plumlee or anything, but if he has good positioning sense and can figure out how to effectively use his size, I think he could be quite good.

FWIW, he averaged 28 points, 16 rebounds, 5 blocks, and 4 assists per game last season and put up 55 pts in a regulation game. That doesn't happen unless he has some talent, not to mention decent hands. Not sure about his competition, but Pine Crest is a mid-sized school (4A out of 8A in FL).

I don't have really high expectations, but I think we could be pleasantly surprised.

[Skitzle]

Yes it is highlights, so you'll never know until he plays what he really looks like, but here is what I see.

1) He's not as athletic as Marshall Plumlee, or any Plumlee. He won't run the floor or jump well.
2) He has a decent touch around the rim, (backed up by his 63% FG% on max preps).

He's an offensive minded backup big. When was the last time we had one of those?

If he can learn to:
1) Play decent defense
2) Maintain a 50% FG% around the rim
3) Shoot a 15 footer at a 40% clip
4) Make freethrows (currently 77% shooter!)

He'll be a fantastic piece on the 2018 National Championship Team.

One thing I will note... I never saw any highlights of zoubek when he was a highschool player, did he seem to have a touch this good?

[CDu]

Yes it is highlights, so you'll never know until he plays what he really looks like, but here is what I see.

1) He's not as athletic as Marshall Plumlee, or any Plumlee. He won't run the floor or jump well.
2) He has a decent touch around the rim, (backed up by his 63% FG% on max preps).

He's an offensive minded backup big. When was the last time we had one of those?

If he can learn to:
1) Play decent defense
2) Maintain a 50% FG% around the rim
3) Shoot a 15 footer at a 40% clip
4) Make freethrows (currently 77% shooter!)

He'll be a fantastic piece on the 2018 National Championship Team.

One thing I will note... I never saw any highlights of zoubek when he was a highschool player, did he seem to have a touch this good?

Zoubek was much more skilled and accomplished coming out of high school (he was a top-30 recruit).

[FireOgilvie]

One thing I will note... I never saw any highlights of zoubek when he was a highschool player, did he seem to have a touch this good?


Zoubek was much more skilled and accomplished coming out of high school (he was a top-30 recruit).

Yes, Zoubek was rated at 25th in his class according to RSCI, ranked ahead of Scheyer and something like a dozen future NBA players in a very deep class. https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2006-final

Here is Z's HS highlight video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-AeSs7iRRM

[CDu]

Yes, Zoubek was rated at 25th in his class according to RSCI, ranked ahead of Scheyer and something like a dozen future NBA players in a very deep class. https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2006-final

Here is Z's HS highlight video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-AeSs7iRRM

Thanks for linking that video for Zoubek. One thing I do notice is that the differences in athleticism between Vrankovic and Zoubek appear minimal. For all the talk about "below the rim", that's pretty much what Zoubek was, and I'm pretty sure that's what most guys are when they are 6'10"+ as a teenager. It's really rare for a guy that tall to also be really athletic.

We get spoiled by guys like Okafor, Laettner, the Plumlees and other crazy examples, but most guys that size just aren't strong enough to look explosive. And given they have such a height advantage, it is often easier to just put up a shot quickly (using that height advantage) than to gather yourself and go up strong for a dunk (and risk allowing more athletic guys challenging the shot).

I could certainly see a progression like Zoubek's, where he doesn't play much his first two years but gets stronger and becomes a contributor as a junior and senior. Hopefully he won't have the injury problems that Zoubek had, which slowed his progression by a year or so. But like Zoubek, I'd imagine he'd have trouble with the speed and strength of the game as a frosh and soph (and thus commit a lot of fouls and turnovers).

Zoubek was certainly more accomplished coming out of high school, whereas Vrankovic looks a bit like a late-bloomer. So development will be key to whether or not he can ever be more than a big guy who commits a lot of fouls and turnovers.

[Skitzle]

Thanks for linking that video for Zoubek. One thing I do notice is that the differences in athleticism between Vrankovic and Zoubek appear minimal. For all the talk about "below the rim", that's pretty much what Zoubek was, and I'm pretty sure that's what most guys are when they are 6'10"+ as a teenager. It's really rare for a guy that tall to also be really athletic.

We get spoiled by guys like Okafor, Laettner, the Plumlees and other crazy examples, but most guys that size just aren't strong enough to look explosive. And given they have such a height advantage, it is often easier to just put up a shot quickly (using that height advantage) than to gather yourself and go up strong for a dunk (and risk allowing more athletic guys challenging the shot).

I could certainly see a progression like Zoubek's, where he doesn't play much his first two years but gets stronger and becomes a contributor as a junior and senior. Hopefully he won't have the injury problems that Zoubek had, which slowed his progression by a year or so. But like Zoubek, I'd imagine he'd have trouble with the speed and strength of the game as a frosh and soph (and thus commit a lot of fouls and turnovers).

Zoubek was certainly more accomplished coming out of high school, whereas Vrankovic looks a bit like a late-bloomer. So development will be key to whether or not he can ever be more than a big guy who commits a lot of fouls and turnovers.

Vrankovic looks just a tad more nimble than Zoubek around the hoop IMO... but the rankings probably are better at identifying these guys than I.

If that is the case, then Zoubek's foot Injuries REALLY did derail his career. Shame...

[CDu]

Vrankovic looks just a tad more nimble than Zoubek around the hoop IMO... but the rankings probably are better at identifying these guys than I.

If that is the case, then Zoubek's foot Injuries REALLY did derail his career. Shame...

Some of it may be that Zoubek emerged as relevant earlier in his high school career, whereas perhaps Vrankovic is a late bloomer (which would seem reasonable given the difference in his highlights over two years' time and further supported by Duke's later pursuit of him. If you are 7 feet tall and a capable player as a soph/junior, you sneak up the ranks quicker. And some of it really may be a difference in skill.

I think the injuries certainly slowed Zoubek's development, but I also think some of it was Zoubs not being a great fit for Duke's defensive principles at the time. Had we played zone more willingly back then, maybe Zoubek is relevant a year or more sooner.

[brevity]

One thing I do notice is that the differences in athleticism between Vrankovic and Zoubek appear minimal.

Hard to tell. Can Vrankovic grow a beard?

[BD80]

Hard to tell. Can Vrankovic grow a beard?

A Vroubeard?

Better question, can he bake?

[dukelifer]

Vrankovic looks just a tad more nimble than Zoubek around the hoop IMO... but the rankings probably are better at identifying these guys than I.

If that is the case, then Zoubek's foot Injuries REALLY did derail his career. Shame...
This is true. Zoubek started out very promising and then lost some confidence and mobility. He played well at the right time and was a major contributor to the National Championship.

[dukelifer]

Thanks for linking that video for Zoubek. One thing I do notice is that the differences in athleticism between Vrankovic and Zoubek appear minimal. For all the talk about "below the rim", that's pretty much what Zoubek was, and I'm pretty sure that's what most guys are when they are 6'10"+ as a teenager. It's really rare for a guy that tall to also be really athletic.

We get spoiled by guys like Okafor, Laettner, the Plumlees and other crazy examples, but most guys that size just aren't strong enough to look explosive. And given they have such a height advantage, it is often easier to just put up a shot quickly (using that height advantage) than to gather yourself and go up strong for a dunk (and risk allowing more athletic guys challenging the shot).

I could certainly see a progression like Zoubek's, where he doesn't play much his first two years but gets stronger and becomes a contributor as a junior and senior. Hopefully he won't have the injury problems that Zoubek had, which slowed his progression by a year or so. But like Zoubek, I'd imagine he'd have trouble with the speed and strength of the game as a frosh and soph (and thus commit a lot of fouls and turnovers).

Zoubek was certainly more accomplished coming out of high school, whereas Vrankovic looks a bit like a late-bloomer. So development will be key to whether or not he can ever be more than a big guy who commits a lot of fouls and turnovers.

Remember this guy ranked 96?

96 93 new NA NA Greivis Vasquez 74 46 82 6-5 WG Rockville, MD Maryland

If you are in the top 100 of anything there is a chance you are still pretty good and may even become ACC player of the year and play a while in the NBA.

[Indoor66]

I liked the fact that he is quite skilled at using the Board on his shots. This gives him a much greater margin of error.

[dukelion]

Really? You're seeing wow? Even with this better highlight reel, I'm still seeing a below the rim guy who can get a lot of blocks if the people taking the shots are 8 inches shorter than he is. Hopefully he can play strong defense, which is very valuable. But, no offense intended toward Antonio, the highlight reels don't show me a game-changer.

My concern is that he's really 6' 11" 270. If so the we have a legit center with finishing skills around the basket to develop over the next 4 years. That would be very exciting indeed.

Unfortunately when the team lists him on next years roster I wouldn't be surprised to see him at 6' 9" 250.

[dukelifer]

My concern is that he's really 6' 11" 270. If so the we have a legit center with finishing skills around the basket to develop over the next 4 years. That would be very exciting indeed.

Unfortunately when the team lists him on next years roster I wouldn't be surprised to see him at 6' 9" 250.

Don't we have cinder blocks for such disputes? Thing is, he may still be growing. All that matters is whether he can play.

[rocketeli]

I watched his mixtape. He has a ways to go, but clearly has potential-he's a traditional close-in player, seems to be able to catch the ball and makes some nice decisions on the fly and has some quickness to his rebounding. In a more typical year he wouldn't sniff Duke, and I hope that works out for him. If he accepts being a project he could learn a lot, and as an upperclassman get some national exposure which could help him get work outs or a place back in Europe. And of course, he will have access to a lot of the non-basketball things that Duke has to offer. Overall, if you have more ambition than that, Duke is not a good place for the "developing" player, because Coach K and staff will not be able/willing to let you learn in the best situation to learn--on the court. Guys not happy with this such as Czyz or Boateng end up transferring.

[camion]

I watched his mixtape. He has a ways to go, but clearly has potential-he's a traditional close-in player, seems to be able to catch the ball and makes some nice decisions on the fly and has some quickness to his rebounding. In a more typical year he wouldn't sniff Duke, and I hope that works out for him. If he accepts being a project he could learn a lot, and as an upperclassman get some national exposure which could help him get work outs or a place back in Europe. And of course, he will have access to a lot of the non-basketball things that Duke has to offer. Overall, if you have more ambition than that, Duke is not a good place for the "developing" player, because Coach K and staff will not be able/willing to let you learn in the best situation to learn--on the court. Guys not happy with this such as Czyz or Boateng end up transferring.

I keep hearing this and so am curious. What programs are good places for a "developing" player to get playing time over more advanced players?

[rocketeli]

I keep hearing this and so am curious. What programs are good places for a "developing" player to get playing time over more advanced players?

A place where they can play a lot, especially for big men. If you're 6'11'' 270 in HS it's like you're playing against your little brother who is 4 years younger as the biggest player you may face might be 6'6' 190. It's a much bigger adjustment for this guy coming to college and having to pick on players closer to his own size or stronger (this was a problem for Shavlik Randolph, for example). The only way to really improve for a big man is to play as much as possible against these players. If you're a savvy big man you should pick a school that offers the highest level or competition that you can actually get on the court against.

[Duke95]

I watched his mixtape. He has a ways to go, but clearly has potential-he's a traditional close-in player, seems to be able to catch the ball and makes some nice decisions on the fly and has some quickness to his rebounding. In a more typical year he wouldn't sniff Duke, and I hope that works out for him. If he accepts being a project he could learn a lot, and as an upperclassman get some national exposure which could help him get work outs or a place back in Europe. And of course, he will have access to a lot of the non-basketball things that Duke has to offer. Overall, if you have more ambition than that, Duke is not a good place for the "developing" player, because Coach K and staff will not be able/willing to let you learn in the best situation to learn--on the court. Guys not happy with this such as Czyz or Boateng end up transferring.

The list of places where inferior players get playing time over better ones starts and ends with UNC.

That place is a veritable temple of player "development". Photos of JMM and Tokoto hang on the wall.

[camion]

A place where they can play a lot, especially for big men. If you're 6'11'' 270 in HS it's like you're playing against your little brother who is 4 years younger as the biggest player you may face might be 6'6' 190. It's a much bigger adjustment for this guy coming to college and having to pick on players closer to his own size or stronger (this was a problem for Shavlik Randolph, for example). The only way to really improve for a big man is to play as much as possible against these players. If you're a savvy big man you should pick a school that offers the highest level or competition that you can actually get on the court against.

So are you saying that he would be better served to attend a school that generally has a lower level of player than Duke gets so he won't be in line behind more accomplished players for game playing time?

I expect we are heading toward a discussion of game time versus practice time. That has been debated before with neither side convincing the other.

[ArtVandelay]

Remember this guy ranked 96?

96 93 new NA NA Greivis Vasquez 74 46 82 6-5 WG Rockville, MD Maryland

If you are in the top 100 of anything there is a chance you are still pretty good and may even become ACC player of the year and play a while in the NBA.

Ok, sure, anyone with the right amount of size can hypothetically make the NBA, but it's kind of a crapshoot at that point, isn't it? The Vasquez's of the world are more the exception than the rule. If it was possible to identify future NBA players ranked below 75 or so, you'd think high-level programs would be more successful at it. So unless you think Duke was the only program that saw something in Vrankovic that other didn't (possible, but unlikely ... it's not like our competition is a bunch of dummies), I think the best way to view him is as a lottery ticket. Maybe he turns out to be better than the rankings indicate, maybe the coaching staff can tap his potential and turn him into a contributor, etc. But it seems to me (without having done any exhaustive analysis ... others can correct me if I'm wrong) that recruits at his end of the rankings are more likely not to pan out or transfer than they are to develop into starters. Particularly for big men, who have a steeper learning curve and a higher degree of variance in outcomes.

As others have stated, I would think the best case scenario would be that he is willing to stick around a few years and potentially becomes a starter-caliber player by his junior or senior year. Expecting him to be a meaningful part of the big man rotation after one redshirt year strikes me as unrealistic. That said, it doesn't hurt to add this type of talent/size to the roster in the hopes that some of them pan out.

[dukelifer]

I watched his mixtape. He has a ways to go, but clearly has potential-he's a traditional close-in player, seems to be able to catch the ball and makes some nice decisions on the fly and has some quickness to his rebounding. In a more typical year he wouldn't sniff Duke, and I hope that works out for him. If he accepts being a project he could learn a lot, and as an upperclassman get some national exposure which could help him get work outs or a place back in Europe. And of course, he will have access to a lot of the non-basketball things that Duke has to offer. Overall, if you have more ambition than that, Duke is not a good place for the "developing" player, because Coach K and staff will not be able/willing to let you learn in the best situation to learn--on the court. Guys not happy with this such as Czyz or Boateng end up transferring.

Not quite sure I agree with this. Perhaps players developed just fine in practice and through the interaction with the program, coaching staff and quality players- but then decided to move on where they can play more. In the end the player may have gained more than the program.

[kAzE]

I like picking this guy up now, especially if we can get him a redshirt year. He's obviously not yet strong enough in his lower body to move gracefully out on a basketball court, so strength and conditioning will be a big part of his development.


Here is Z's HS highlight video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-AeSs7iRRM

The slo-mo parts of this video pretty much made my day.


Thanks for linking that video for Zoubek. One thing I do notice is that the differences in athleticism between Vrankovic and Zoubek appear minimal. For all the talk about "below the rim", that's pretty much what Zoubek was, and I'm pretty sure that's what most guys are when they are 6'10"+ as a teenager. It's really rare for a guy that tall to also be really athletic.

We get spoiled by guys like Okafor, Laettner, the Plumlees and other crazy examples, but most guys that size just aren't strong enough to look explosive. And given they have such a height advantage, it is often easier to just put up a shot quickly (using that height advantage) than to gather yourself and go up strong for a dunk (and risk allowing more athletic guys challenging the shot).

I could certainly see a progression like Zoubek's, where he doesn't play much his first two years but gets stronger and becomes a contributor as a junior and senior. Hopefully he won't have the injury problems that Zoubek had, which slowed his progression by a year or so. But like Zoubek, I'd imagine he'd have trouble with the speed and strength of the game as a frosh and soph (and thus commit a lot of fouls and turnovers).

Zoubek was certainly more accomplished coming out of high school, whereas Vrankovic looks a bit like a late-bloomer. So development will be key to whether or not he can ever be more than a big guy who commits a lot of fouls and turnovers.

I agree with most of this, although not entirely with that 2nd paragraph. Most 6'10" guys recruited by Duke are explosive enough to at least be able to dunk with relative ease. I think Zoubek and Vrankovic are clearly more of an exception when it comes to Duke bigs. I don't think anyone considered Marshall Plumlee a 5 star recruit, but he murders the rim at least twice a game when he gets enough minutes. It's just a matter of athleticism.

Chase Jeter, Harry Giles, Udoka Azubuike, and Thon Maker are other guys we are recruiting (with Jeter already on the way) who are 6'10" or taller and are pretty friendly with the rim. OBVIOUSLY, compared to normal human beings who are 6'10" (as normal as any giant human being can be), these guys are freaks, but just in terms of guys getting letters from Coach K, I'd say these below the rim type of guys are more of a rarity. Zoubek was a special case because 7'1" 300 pounders don't come along that often.

This guy will be a project. Marshall was a project, and now he's pretty damn good. Give Vrank the Tank 3-4 years to mature. I think he'll be at the very least a good rebounder and finisher in the paint. Defnsively, I don't ever see him becoming mobile enough to become a force down low in terms of protecting the rim, but he's so big that as long as he's in position to challenge a shot, we should be okay. I see him as a career back up big who could provide some valuable minutes when called upon. I think I still like MP3's upside more, but Vrank might have enough offensive skill to make up for the significant gap in athleticism and mobility that MP3 has over him. We'll see.

[gam7]

This is true. Zoubek started out very promising and then lost some confidence and mobility. He played well at the right time and was a major contributor to the National Championship.

This arguably understates Zoubek's importance to that national championship. A strong case can be made that his improvement was the single biggest reason we won it that year. I'm in that camp.

As for Vrankovic, at this point we need bodies - probably for games, but at the very least for practice. It would be nice if we can get at least 10 practice-quality guys. Vrankovic primarily serves this purpose for the next two years. Anything he contributes in games beyond that will be a nice bonus.

[Saratoga2]

This arguably understates Zoubek's importance to that national championship. A strong case can be made that his improvement was the single biggest reason we won it that year. I'm in that camp.

As for Vrankovic, at this point we need bodies - probably for games, but at the very least for practice. It would be nice if we can get at least 10 practice-quality guys. Vrankovic primarily serves this purpose for the next two years. Anything he contributes in games beyond that will be a nice bonus.

I prefer to wait and see what he can do. His competition at C are MP3 (Excellent athletically but has basketball limitations) and Sean (unknown at this time and with little being said about his practice year). Maybe coach K will use Chase or Amile at C, but neither is really cut out for that position. Maybe Antonio will be competitive for a spot with Marshall and Sean.

[jimsumner]

I prefer to wait and see what he can do. His competition at C are MP3 (Excellent athletically but has basketball limitations) and Sean (unknown at this time and with little being said about his practice year). Maybe coach K will use Chase or Amile at C, but neither is really cut out for that position. Maybe Antonio will be competitive for a spot with Marshall and Sean.

Very much agree that it's premature to ban him to the bench for four seasons.

Jeter is a real wild card here. When Duke started recruiting him he was a skinny power forward. But he's bulked up considerably. I had heard 225 or so but he was listed as 239 at the Nike Hoops Summit. He's more athletic than Obi or Vrankovic, more skilled than Plumlee. And he's a consensus top-15 recruit and he's not likely to start at the 4 ahead of Jefferson.

So, practices figure to be pretty competitive. To Duke's benefit, hopefully.

[lotusland]

I prefer to wait and see what he can do. His competition at C are MP3 (Excellent athletically but has basketball limitations) and Sean (unknown at this time and with little being said about his practice year). Maybe coach K will use Chase or Amile at C, but neither is really cut out for that position. Maybe Antonio will be competitive for a spot with Marshall and Sean.
I think we know as much about Obi as we do about Vrankovic and it is safe to say Obi is also a below the rim player. In his YouTube highlights Obi shows very little lift but he uses his size and strength to be effective rebounding and scoring around the rim.

[Elev8ion]

I think we know as much about Obi as we do about Vrankovic and it is safe to say Obi is also a below the rim player. In his YouTube highlights Obi shows very little lift but he uses his size and strength to be effective rebounding and scoring around the rim.

Obi reminds me of a poor man's Charles Barkley. Vrank needs to work on his footwork, from his "highlight" reels he has seen the world over a couple of times.

[CDu]

I think we know as much about Obi as we do about Vrankovic and it is safe to say Obi is also a below the rim player. In his YouTube highlights Obi shows very little lift but he uses his size and strength to be effective rebounding and scoring around the rim.

I would say we know quite a bit more about Obi than Vrankovic, simply by virtue of the fact that he has averaged almost a double-double at the D-1 college level. And he did so at an upper-mid-major level. We have no idea whether or not Vrankovic can play at the major college level, whereas Obi should at least be able to contribute solid rebounding numbers and a little bit of scoring (he averaged 9 points and 10.5 rebounds in 23.5 minutes per game in his two games against "BCS" schools as a frosh).

[lotusland]

Obi reminds me of a poor man's Charles Barkley. Vrank needs to work on his footwork, from his "highlight" reels he has seen the world over a couple of times.

Barkely was a 6'5ish guy with amazing agility and lift for his size. Obi is a 6'9 tank with very limited lift and agility. I Just don't see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q-J-rqy5eE

I guess the "poor man's..." qualifier gives you some room but I think he's as much a poor man's David Robinson as Charles Barkely which is to say, not so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8FOe9GSwFY

Obi will likely be a an effective rebounder, defender and post scorer but I don't expect him to go coast to coast very much. I like having a guy like Obi around for 3 more years but I would actually be surprised is he is as productive as Roshon, Dante and Seth. Then again I usually underestimate players coming in. I think the current landscape of OADs and prevalence of transfers have changed recruiting for everyone but espectially the blue bloods. It's a narrow line to walk trying to bring in glue guys who can contribute right away yet don't have NBA skills to leave early like Quinn, Tyler, Amile, M. Jones and probably Obi or to add some "project guys" with future potential who will be willing to sit for a couple of years without transferring before they get much PT. Category #1 are typically tweeners or guys who just don't have NBA size and/or speed for their position. Category 2 is trickier to identify. MP3, Like Zoubek, was probably expected to contribute more in his first couple of years but he wasn't likely to transfer. Same for Justin Robinson as a walk-on and hopefully Vrankovic as well. Semi, Alex and, in some respects, Sheed did not fit in either category.

[lotusland]

I would say we know quite a bit more about Obi than Vrankovic, simply by virtue of the fact that he has averaged almost a double-double at the D-1 college level. And he did so at an upper-mid-major level. We have no idea whether or not Vrankovic can play at the major college level, whereas Obi should at least be able to contribute solid rebounding numbers and a little bit of scoring (he averaged 9 points and 10.5 rebounds in 23.5 minutes per game in his two games against "BCS" schools as a frosh).

I agree we can probably assume more about Obi's productivity and I definitley expect him to contribute more than Vrankovic next year. Still I'm not sure how well points and rebounds at Rice translates to points and rebounds at Duke. I think Fresman MP3 puts up comparable numbers to Obi if he had played at Rice instead of Duke. But I was speaking more about their the type of player both are more than expected production next year. Both are "below the rim" guys for the most part while Vrank is taller and Obi is bulkier. I'd guess Obi is a little better rebounder and Vrank is a better shooter. I don't think either will do well guarding guys like Kaminsky on the perimeter.

[CDu]

I agree we can probably assume more about Obi's productivity and I definitley expect him to contribute more than Vrankovic next year. Still I'm not sure how well points and rebounds at Rice translates to points and rebounds at Duke. I think Fresman MP3 puts up comparable numbers to Obi if he had played at Rice instead of Duke. But I was speaking more about their the type of player both are more than expected production next year. Both are "below the rim" guys for the most part while Vrank is taller and Obi is bulkier. I'd guess Obi is a little better rebounder and Vrank is a better shooter. I don't think either will do well guarding guys like Kaminsky on the perimeter.

I think you are either underselling Obi or overestimating Plumlee here, especially when it comes to rebounds. Rebounding skill is one of the most translatable traits a player can have. And Obi rebounded quite well in games against Texas and Texas A&M (9 and 12 rebounds in those games). I'm quite sure freshman-year Marshall Plumlee would not have matched Obi's production had he been at Rice as a freshman. More relevantly, I'm not sure Plumlee would have matched those numbers this past year if he'd been at Rice. I'm quite confident he wouldn't have averaged 9 rpg, and pretty sure he wouldn't have gotten to the 11 ppg.

I'm not saying I'd expect Obi to come in and average 11 and 9 next year for Duke. But I'd be comfortably willing to say 8 and 6 (given the 25 mpg), given that he will be two years older and has had a year of practicing against Okafor, Plumlee, and Jefferson. In the same amount of PT, I'd see more along the lines of 5 and 5 from Plumlee.

But yes, both appear to be "below-the-rim" type players, and neither would do well on Kaminsky. Thankfully, there aren't too many guys like Kaminsky (or anywhere remotely close to as good as him) in the college game.

[DukieinSoCal]

Barkely was a 6'5ish guy with amazing agility and lift for his size. Obi is a 6'9 tank with very limited lift and agility. I Just don't see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q-J-rqy5eE

I guess the "poor man's..." qualifier gives you some room but I think he's as much a poor man's David Robinson as Charles Barkely which is to say, not so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8FOe9GSwFY

Obi will likely be a an effective rebounder, defender and post scorer but I don't expect him to go coast to coast very much. I like having a guy like Obi around for 3 more years but I would actually be surprised is he is as productive as Roshon, Dante and Seth. Then again I usually underestimate players coming in. I think the current landscape of OADs and prevalence of transfers have changed recruiting for everyone but espectially the blue bloods. It's a narrow line to walk trying to bring in glue guys who can contribute right away yet don't have NBA skills to leave early like Quinn, Tyler, Amile, M. Jones and probably Obi or to add some "project guys" with future potential who will be willing to sit for a couple of years without transferring before they get much PT. Category #1 are typically tweeners or guys who just don't have NBA size and/or speed for their position. Category 2 is trickier to identify. MP3, Like Zoubek, was probably expected to contribute more in his first couple of years but he wasn't likely to transfer. Same for Justin Robinson as a walk-on and hopefully Vrankovic as well. Semi, Alex and, in some respects, Sheed did not fit in either category.

He actually strikes me more as a thicker version of Amile. He seems to have soft hands, nice touch around the basket, and is pretty crafty using both hands and the rim to protect against blocks. There was also a clip of him shooting and making an elbow jumper. I think this is really key for both Obi and Amile. They have to at least be a threat to shoot the mid-range jumper in order to keep defenses honest. Our offense will flow so much better if we're not playing 4 on 5. I hated watching teams completely sag off of Amile whenever he would receive the ball near the free throw line last year. I'm sure he'll be working hard on that part of his game in the off-season and will come back ready to play.

[CDu]

He actually strikes me more as a thicker version of Amile. He seems to have soft hands, nice touch around the basket, and is pretty crafty using both hands and the rim to protect against blocks. There was also a clip of him shooting and making an elbow jumper. I think this is really key for both Obi and Amile. They have to at least be a threat to shoot the mid-range jumper in order to keep defenses honest. Our offense will flow so much better if we're not playing 4 on 5. I hated watching teams completely sag off of Amile whenever he would receive the ball near the free throw line last year. I'm sure he'll be working hard on that part of his game in the off-season and will come back ready to play.

This is a really interesting and different comp. A much thicker and probably much less quick version of Jefferson sound reasonable, especially given the FG% and FT% of both players and the relative lack of scoring despite strong rebounding numbers. For Obi, given his size and strength, he may be able to get away with a lack of mid-range game a little more than Jefferson, in that he can perhaps use his size/strength to muscle his way around in the paint, whereas Jefferson has to be more slinky in there. But yes, a mid-range game would be huge for both guys.

[sagegrouse]

Do we get to call this guy "Tony," or is it gonna be "Antonio?"

[Elev8ion]

Barkely was a 6'5ish guy with amazing agility and lift for his size. Obi is a 6'9 tank with very limited lift and agility. I Just don't see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q-J-rqy5eE

I guess the "poor man's..." qualifier gives you some room but I think he's as much a poor man's David Robinson as Charles Barkely which is to say, not so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8FOe9GSwFY

Obi will likely be a an effective rebounder, defender and post scorer but I don't expect him to go coast to coast very much. I like having a guy like Obi around for 3 more years but I would actually be surprised is he is as productive as Roshon, Dante and Seth. Then again I usually underestimate players coming in. I think the current landscape of OADs and prevalence of transfers have changed recruiting for everyone but espectially the blue bloods. It's a narrow line to walk trying to bring in glue guys who can contribute right away yet don't have NBA skills to leave early like Quinn, Tyler, Amile, M. Jones and probably Obi or to add some "project guys" with future potential who will be willing to sit for a couple of years without transferring before they get much PT. Category #1 are typically tweeners or guys who just don't have NBA size and/or speed for their position. Category 2 is trickier to identify. MP3, Like Zoubek, was probably expected to contribute more in his first couple of years but he wasn't likely to transfer. Same for Justin Robinson as a walk-on and hopefully Vrankovic as well. Semi, Alex and, in some respects, Sheed did not fit in either category.

I suppose I was referring to his frame more than his height and agility. :)

I still think Vrank travels a lot!

[mr. synellinden]

Do we get to call this guy "Tony," or is it gonna be "Antonio?"

It worked for Antonio Lang, so why not?

[lotusland]

I think you are either underselling Obi or overestimating Plumlee here, especially when it comes to rebounds. Rebounding skill is one of the most translatable traits a player can have. And Obi rebounded quite well in games against Texas and Texas A&M (9 and 12 rebounds in those games). I'm quite sure freshman-year Marshall Plumlee would not have matched Obi's production had he been at Rice as a freshman. More relevantly, I'm not sure Plumlee would have matched those numbers this past year if he'd been at Rice. I'm quite confident he wouldn't have averaged 9 rpg, and pretty sure he wouldn't have gotten to the 11 ppg.

I'm not saying I'd expect Obi to come in and average 11 and 9 next year for Duke. But I'd be comfortably willing to say 8 and 6 (given the 25 mpg), given that he will be two years older and has had a year of practicing against Okafor, Plumlee, and Jefferson. In the same amount of PT, I'd see more along the lines of 5 and 5 from Plumlee.

But yes, both appear to be "below-the-rim" type players, and neither would do well on Kaminsky. Thankfully, there aren't too many guys like Kaminsky (or anywhere remotely close to as good as him) in the college game.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Like MP3 I don't think Obi would have gotten much PT for Duke either Plumlee's red shirt year with Singler MP1, MP2 and Kelly or his red-shirt Freshman year with MP2, Ryan and Amile. Hard to put up 9 and 11 from the bench. Plumlee is a 7-ft jumpig Jack with a good motor who stays down low so I feel confident his numbers would be at least comparable to Obi's at Rice. I'd imagine lots of bad D1 teams have guys putting up similar numbers who couldn't get off the bench at Duke. One advantage Obi may have is an ability to stay in the game and be agressive without fouling out which definitley helps production.

[CDu]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Like MP3 I don't think Obi would have gotten much PT for Duke either Plumlee's red shirt year with Singler MP1, MP2 and Kelly or his red-shirt Freshman year with MP2, Ryan and Amile. Hard to put up 9 and 11 from the bench. Plumlee is a 7-ft jumpig Jack with a good motor who stays down low so I feel confident his numbers would be at least comparable to Obi's at Rice. I'd imagine lots of bad D1 teams have guys putting up similar numbers who couldn't get off the bench at Duke. One advantage Obi may have is an ability to stay in the game and be agressive without fouling out which definitley helps production.

First, Rice is not a "bad D1" team. They are in Conference USA, which is a high-mid-major. Secondly, Obi ranked 31st in the nation in rebounds per game and was 10th in rebounds per 40 minutes. On that list, only a handful of guys played in a conference at the same level as Rice. So, I really don't think there were lots of guys putting up similar numbers, regardless of the level of competition. And he showed in his games against major conference teams that he could still get those rebounds (averaging 10.5 rpg against BCS schools).

It is true that Plumlee wasn't going to get minutes as a true freshman due to the veterans in place, and it is also true that Obi wouldn't have played that year either. That doesn't make them similar in ability - it just means we had a wealth of talented and experienced big guys that year. Since then, Plumlee has continued to not get major minutes - even on a 2014 team that needed size and interior defense in the worst way in 2014. That doesn't suggest to me that he'd be an 11 and 9 guy if he played at Rice. In fact, nothing about his rebound percentages suggest he'd be anywhere near a 9rpg guy even now. Based on his current stats, he'd need to play 38mpg to match the per-game rebounding numbers Obi got as a freshman.

This isn't meant to disparage Plumlee. He seems like a great kid and a hard worker. But I think you're underestimating how hard it is to average 9.3 rpg (and 14.1 rebounds per 40 minutes). I'd be surprised if Obi plays less than Plumlee next year, and I'd be more suprised if Plumlee puts up better numbers per minute than Obi next year.

[BD80]

... This isn't meant to disparage Plumlee. He seems like a great kid and a hard worker. But I think you're underestimating how hard it is to average 9.3 rpg (and 14.1 rebounds per 40 minutes). I'd be surprised if Obi plays less than Plumlee next year, and I'd be more suprised if Plumlee puts up better numbers per minute than Obi next year.

So you're telling me that there may be some "spirited" competition between the two in practice to earn playing time?

OK

[Kedsy]

But I think you're underestimating how hard it is to average 9.3 rpg (and 14.1 rebounds per 40 minutes).

Just to amplify CDu's point, Sean Obi was 3rd in the nation (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/stats/rebounds_defensive_pct?games=1&conf=&season=2013-2014&min=) in defensive rebounding percentage his freshman year. So the idea that "lots of guys" on any D1 teams were putting up similar numbers is just wrong. Sean's 30.23% defensive rebounding pct. at Rice was almost twice as good as Marshall's career best (15.6%).

That said, it appears Marshall is a better offensive rebounder than Sean is. But Sean is so much better at defensive rebounding that the two players' overall rebounding prowess can't really be considered close, even taking the difference in competition levels into account.

[lotusland]

First, Rice is not a "bad D1" team. They are in Conference USA, which is a high-mid-major. Secondly, Obi ranked 31st in the nation in rebounds per game and was 10th in rebounds per 40 minutes. On that list, only a handful of guys played in a conference at the same level as Rice. So, I really don't think there were lots of guys putting up similar numbers, regardless of the level of competition. And he showed in his games against major conference teams that he could still get those rebounds (averaging 10.5 rpg against BCS schools).

It is true that Plumlee wasn't going to get minutes as a true freshman due to the veterans in place, and it is also true that Obi wouldn't have played that year either. That doesn't make them similar in ability - it just means we had a wealth of talented and experienced big guys that year. Since then, Plumlee has continued to not get major minutes - even on a 2014 team that needed size and interior defense in the worst way in 2014. That doesn't suggest to me that he'd be an 11 and 9 guy if he played at Rice. In fact, nothing about his rebound percentages suggest he'd be anywhere near a 9rpg guy even now. Based on his current stats, he'd need to play 38mpg to match the per-game rebounding numbers Obi got as a freshman.

This isn't meant to disparage Plumlee. He seems like a great kid and a hard worker. But I think you're underestimating how hard it is to average 9.3 rpg (and 14.1 rebounds per 40 minutes). I'd be surprised if Obi plays less than Plumlee next year, and I'd be more suprised if Plumlee puts up better numbers per minute than Obi next year.

There is no way to prove what Plumlee would have done at Rice so admittedly I'm guessing. Whether Rice has a bad men's basketball program is less subjective. I have no problem imagining Plumlee averaging 9 and 11 against this competition. There are a few decent teams on there but there are more than enough cupcakes for Plumlee to pad his stats against. MP3 gets way more shot blocks and plenty of highlight dunks.

2013-2014 SCHEDULE
Overall
7-23 Conf.
2-14 Home
5-9 Away
2-11 Neutral
0-3
Date Opponent / Event Location Time / Result
11/09/13 vs. University of St. Thomas Tudor Fieldhouse W, 69-60
11/12/13 vs. Southeastern Louisiana Tudor Fieldhouse L, 63-62
11/15/13 at Texas A&M TV College Station, Texas L, 68-65
11/20/13 at Texas A&M Corpus Christi Corpus Christi, Texas W, 63-61
11/23/13 vs. Princeton Tudor Fieldhouse L, 70-56
Cable Car Classic
11/29/13 vs. Rider Santa Clara, Calif. L, 97-93 (OT)
11/30/13 at Santa Clara Santa Clara, Calif. W, 67-66

12/04/13 at Houston Baptist Houston, Texas L, 73-71
12/07/13 vs. South Alabama Tudor Fieldhouse W, 96-93 (3OT)
12/19/13 vs. Northwood Tudor Fieldhouse W, 69-56
12/21/13 vs. Houston TV Toyota Center L, 54-52
12/30/13 at Texas TV Austin, Texas L, 66-44
01/04/14 vs. Harvard TV Tudor Fieldhouse L, 69-54
01/09/14 vs. FIU * Tudor Fieldhouse L, 71-60
01/11/14 vs. Florida Atlantic * Tudor Fieldhouse L, 73-68
01/16/14 at Southern Miss * Hattiesburg, Miss. L, 84-62
01/18/14 at Tulane * New Orleans, La. L, 58-41
01/23/14 vs. Marshall * Tudor Fieldhouse L, 73-63
01/25/14 vs. Charlotte * Tudor Fieldhouse W, 71-69
01/30/14 at UTSA * TV San Antonio, Texas L, 89-76
02/01/14 at UTEP * El Paso, Texas L, 68-57
02/06/14 vs. North Texas * Tudor Fieldhouse W, 75-70
02/08/14 vs. Tulsa * TV Tudor Fieldhouse L, 66-56
02/15/14 at Louisiana Tech * Ruston, La. L, 85-46
02/20/14 at Old Dominion * Norfolk, Va. L, 55-51
02/22/14 at East Carolina * Greenville, N.C. L, 67-55
02/27/14 vs. UAB * Tudor Fieldhouse L, 61-60
03/01/14 at Middle Tennessee * Murfreesboro, Tenn. L, 65-41
03/06/14 vs. Louisiana Tech * Tudor Fieldhouse L, 70-48
Conference USA Championship
03/11/14 vs. North Texas El Paso, Texas L, 63-62 (OT)

[Kedsy]

I have no problem imagining Plumlee averaging 9 and 11 against this competition. There are a few decent teams on there but there are more than enough cupcakes for Plumlee to pad his stats against.

Again, looking at defensive rebounding percentage, which is a pace-independent, minute-independent stat, I don't think you're right. Sean Obi averaged 30.2% in defensive rebounding against that schedule, decent and awful teams alike. As a freshman.

For comparison, below are junior (i.e., best version so far) Marshall Plumlee's defensive rebounding percentages against the low- and mid-major teams in 2014-15 Duke's schedule:

Presbyterian: 19.0%
Fairfield: 0%
Furman: 9%
Army: 19.2%
Elon: 22.8%
Toledo: 20.2%
Wofford: 19.6%

So, two poor defensive rebounding games and the rest pretty good. But nowhere near as good as Obi's defensive rebounding (30.2%), on average, against Rice's entire schedule. I can't say about scoring, but it's hard to see Marshall matching Sean's rebounding numbers if he'd played the same minutes in the same game situations as Sean did.

[lotusland]

Again, looking at defensive rebounding percentage, which is a pace-independent, minute-independent stat, I don't think you're right. Sean Obi averaged 30.2% in defensive rebounding against that schedule, decent and awful teams alike. As a freshman.

For comparison, below are junior (i.e., best version so far) Marshall Plumlee's defensive rebounding percentages against the low- and mid-major teams in 2014-15 Duke's schedule:

Presbyterian: 19.0%
Fairfield: 0%
Furman: 9%
Army: 19.2%
Elon: 22.8%
Toledo: 20.2%
Wofford: 19.6%

So, two poor defensive rebounding games and the rest pretty good. But nowhere near as good as Obi's defensive rebounding (30.2%), on average, against Rice's entire schedule. I can't say about scoring, but it's hard to see Marshall matching Sean's rebounding numbers if he'd played the same minutes in the same game situations as Sean did.

I wonder how many rebounds y'all think Marshall could grab against the size and level of competition Rice faced? Maybe 7-8? Ok I'll go with that. There's always an advantage to keepin your feet on the ground on defense versusu shot blocking. At the risk of flogging a dead horse I'll point out that what minutes MP3 has gotten at Duke have been as an energy guy over-playing and hedging on the perimeter and generally running around like a chicken with his head cut-off vs. parking down low. In the few highlights we have to go on, Obi doesn't stray more than 10-12 feet from the basket.

[-jk]

Marshall's had a few decent rebounders around him this year. Tough prediction, and Marshall probably isn't a measuring stick for this.

-jk

[Wander]

First, Rice is not a "bad D1" team.

Rice is definitely a bad D1 team. They haven't made the NCAA tournament, the NIT, or even the CBI in over a decade. More relevantly, the Rice team that Sean Obi played on was 7-23 and 315th in kenpom. If that's not bad, what is?

I agree with you and Kedsy that it's probably safe to say that Obi is a better defensive rebounder than Plumlee even while taking team strength and SOS into account, but it's not clear to me at all that Obi will perform better than Plumlee overall next year. Frankly, I have no idea how the ordering of Jefferson, Plumlee, Obi, and Jeter will end up.

[Duvall]

Frankly, I have no idea how the ordering of Jefferson, Plumlee, Obi, and Jeter will end up.

It would be very surprising if Jefferson doesn't lead that group in minutes next year, at least.

[Saratoga2]

Just to amplify CDu's point, Sean Obi was 3rd in the nation (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/stats/rebounds_defensive_pct?games=1&conf=&season=2013-2014&min=) in defensive rebounding percentage his freshman year. So the idea that "lots of guys" on any D1 teams were putting up similar numbers is just wrong. Sean's 30.23% defensive rebounding pct. at Rice was almost twice as good as Marshall's career best (15.6%).

That said, it appears Marshall is a better offensive rebounder than Sean is. But Sean is so much better at defensive rebounding that the two players' overall rebounding prowess can't really be considered close, even taking the difference in competition levels into account.

MP3 appears to run out to the perimeter to double team often enough to put himself at a disadvantage rebounding defensively and often left the basket unprotected. Not sure he did this under the coaches instruction or his own judgment. He also seemed to be in the wrong place around the basket. With his size, strength and athleticism, he should be a force rebounding and defending. At times he is, but often it just appears his basketball acumen is not that good. I too like the kid and know he works as hard as anyone and is enthusiastic despite getting low minutes. In three years he hasn't shown much improvement in his deficiencies so it is unlikely he will make major imrpovement in the 2015/2016 season.

I am hopeful that Amile will finally develop a 15 footer and pick up the leadership role that Quinn fulfilled last season. Sean and perhaps Antonio will get their opportunities and we will see what they can offer. Sean is so massively built to be almost scary. His strength has to be a big asset for him. The times I saw Chase play (very limited), he didn't seem to mix it up. Clearly he has height, athletic ability, fluidity and was good enough to warrant a #15 recruiting rating. If he truly has added some strength, it would be to his and our benefit. Still, some players may not be aggressive and that can be a hard thing to learn. I expect him to get the most minutes of our centers and possibly some at the 4 as well.

One advantage not mentioned by others is we truly have an abundance of front court players now and should be able to withstand injury, sickness, foul trouble, etc, better than any of our recent teams.

[Kedsy]

In three years he hasn't shown much improvement in his deficiencies so it is unlikely he will make major imrpovement in the 2015/2016 season.

OK, here I'm going to disagree. While his defensive rebounding is only adequate for a man of his size, Marshall has shown vast improvement over his three years in most facets of the game. Here are some tempo-free, minute-independent stats for Marshall Plumlee:



Stat Frosh Soph Junior
oRtg 35.2 114.1 138.7
eFG% 12.5% 55.1% 77.3%
ts% 8.4% 51.2% 76.6%
OR% 12.2 16.6 15.1
DR% 13.4 14.1 15.6
Blk% 5.7 6.6 5.5
WinSh/40 -0.102 0.115 0.189
PER -1.8 14.3 18.4
to% 31.2 20.4 20.0
foul/40 4.1 4.6 6.2


(oRtg=offensive rating; eFG%=effective field goal %; ts%=true shooting pct; OR%=offensive rebounding %; DR%=defensive rebounding %; Blk%=block percentage; WinSh/40=win shares per 40 minutes; PER=player efficiency rating; to%=turnover %; foul/40=fouls per 40 minutes)


So, his offensive rebounding and his blocks haven't drastically improved (they were pretty good to begin with), and his foul rate has gotten worse, but pretty much everything else has improved by an incredible amount.

Personally, I'm hoping for big things from Marshall next season if he can carve out a 20+ mpg role.