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View Full Version : Proposed "One and Done" Solution



billyt
04-15-2015, 07:37 PM
First post in forever...

College basketball has changed dramatically over the years. NCAA sports is now a billion dollar industry and is here to stay. UNC-CH has had a huge athletic academic scandal to keep athletes eligible to compete and subsequently bring in revenues for UNC. There have been many other athletic/academic eligibility scandals of a smaller scale exposed as well. Sen Claire McCaskill of Missouri recently pulled against Duke, criticizing our "one and done" players. A guy at a bar recently said to me to call these one-and-dones "student athletes" is an oxymoron.

I recently heard Coach K suggest the NBA require 2 years of college prior to pro entry, since the students can be (with summer school) more than halfway towards their degree and much more able to go back to school to graduate. I like Coach K's idea! Hopefully the NBA Basketball Players Assoc will allow K's suggestion to come to fruition. However, if "one and dones" continue, I have an idea and am curious to see what you guys think:

Let's be honest: Most of these elite one-and done basketball athletes are attending college with the dream and intent of playing professionally. The majority are not attending college to get a diploma in a liberal arts major. Why make them take philosophy if they don't want to take philosophy? It's not fair for bright, hard-working UNC-CH students (not an oxymoron, guys) to have their diplomas devalued by athletes who took sham classes. If these athletes are going to Kentucky, Duke and UNC to become professional athletes then why not have each university create a separate PROFESSIONAL SCHOOL for these Athletes? These students would then be learning to become professional athletes and would take an appropriate curriculum: athletic training, nutrition, money management, public speaking, public relations, sports management, and coaching are a few ideas for classes. There could be one or two year professional degrees offered by each school depending on the professional students' schedule. These individuals would still be representing the university but would not have the same academic requirements as liberal arts students. As at other universities with separate schools, I'm sure the professional students could still take classes from the liberal arts college if they wanted. They could have the potential to transfer into the liberal arts school (say due to some career-ending injury or a sudden desire to become a poet). Liberal arts students who wanted to participate in college athletics could still do so as they do now. But those athletes who solely want to work in professional sports would not have to (pretend to) take liberal arts classes. True AFAM majors who went to class and wrote excellent well-researched papers would earn respected diplomas.

I wonder how many schools other than UNC currently allow their athletes to take take sham classes or pass athletes who are failing just to keep them eligible. UNC says "everybody does it". I am happy and proud Duke hasn't been accused of such a scandal. I am happy our "one and dones" this year appeared to unpack their bags and buy into the whole idea of student life while they were here. Just had this idea that might better serve some of the one-and-done and rent-a-players' professional needs and at the same time, level the playing field a little between cheating and non- cheating schools. I'm not sure I even like my idea- honestly wish we had players here for 4 years again- but realistically that's not gonna happen. Wanted to see what some of you guys think of this idea...
Thanks!
billyt

SCMatt33
04-15-2015, 08:32 PM
This is not necessarily a novel idea. I've seen an argument of a similar type from Jay Bilas. I can't remember it exactly, but it was along the lines of "Prodigy musicians and dancers can major in music and dance, why not athletes." There are a few issues with implementing such a strategy. First, there are still exceedingly few people who would qualify for such a program. The number of players who both know they are one-and-done before college, and actually become one-and-done in any given year can be counted on two hands every year, hardly enough for too many schools to create an entire college around. Second, even if we were to include all players who might become pro's in the NBA, D-league, or overseas, the number of such athletes is still a modest percentage, even among power 5 conference teams. Among those, the number who will earn a lifetime's worth of income off of athletic performance, even with perfect financial planning, is very small. For music or dance, there are small-town theaters and bands that would allow people to earn a living off of music performance if they don't make the big time, even if it's not the most lucrative. The athletics equivalent of such entertainment, however, lies in high schools and small colleges, as age is a much bigger factor for athletes. So there's little value in building what would have to be a very large national infrastructure to include things like accreditation around so very few who could usefully take advantage of it.

BigWayne
04-15-2015, 09:26 PM
Like Matt points out, it's hard to imagine a university setting up an actual curriculum to be staffed by self-respecting professors for a maximum of 13 and more likely one or two students. Any such attempt would be very prone to shenanigans like the single student "classes" reported over in Orange County.

billyt
04-15-2015, 09:42 PM
Great point. I guess I have been spoiled this year with 3 one-and-dones in one class. With all of the talk from Bo Ryan and Senator McCaskill, I had the impression they were more. Even if the professional school at each major university included prospective pro basketball, football, golf and tennis players, it would still likely be a very small number at each school. Thanks!
billyt

UrinalCake
04-15-2015, 10:16 PM
Most schools have core courses that everyone is required to take, even the musicians and dancers. I was an engineering major but had to take the dreaded University Writing Course (UWC) my freshman year at Duke. So at a minimum the athletes would have to take those.

As far as having classes that "teach" how to be an athlete, I guess you'd have to justify how that fits in to the mission of the school itself. There would be virtually no overlap between these courses and anything a student who wasn't a revenue athlete would take. Plus, there's all kinds of potential for fraud in this system. You could teach virtually anything, or nothing, and find a way to justify that that fulfills the academic requirements of a "professional athlete degree."

I do agree with your framing of the problem, which is that a number of these athletes just don't belong in college, for a number of reasons. The NBDL isn't really a viable alternative because it doesn't have the same exposure as college basketball. Neither does playing overseas (though after Brandon Jennings and Mudiay, I think it's possible more kids will explore this route). So these guys wind up going to college for a year because they have to, and the colleges are happy to oblige because of the money they can generate, so it's a system that's set up for abuse.

Also, I wanted to clarify to the OP that what Coach K said in his interview shortly after winning the title, which he's also said in the past, is that he thinks kids should be able to choose to EITHER go to the NBA straight out of high school OR go to college for two years. It would be a "two or none" rule similar to the "three or none" rule that currently exists in baseball. If such a rule were in place this year, we would have never seen Okafor but Tyus and Winslow would have come for two years. I don't necessarily see this as a perfect solution either; the same people complaining that Okafor should have been allowed to go and make money straight out of high school would then be complaining that Justice should be allowed to make money after one year rather than "playing for free" for an additional year.

langdonfan
04-15-2015, 11:57 PM
It would be a "two or none" rule similar to the "three or none" rule that currently exists in baseball. If such a rule were in place this year, we would have never seen Okafor but Tyus and Winslow would have come for two years. I don't necessarily see this as a perfect solution either; the same people complaining that Okafor should have been allowed to go and make money straight out of high school would then be complaining that Justice should be allowed to make money after one year rather than "playing for free" for an additional year.

The 2 or none rule seems inevitable, but why do you assume Tyus and Justise would have come? We will likely see many more hs players in the draft each year than there were in years past if this rule goes into effect. Probably most of the top 15 prospects, maybe many more. Last year's MLB draft had 10 high school players in the first round. Even without a true farm system, NBA teams have proven that they don't mind drafting on potential and missing out on a player's best years (see high schoolers Jermaine O'Neal, Tracy McGrady, and Monta Ellis). The best teams would probably stock up on hs players at the end of the first round and let them rot in the NBDL. I could envision half of the second round being high school players. I just hope there is an option for the undrafted players to go to school.

SCMatt33
04-16-2015, 09:29 AM
The 2 or none rule seems inevitable, but why do you assume Tyus and Justise would have come? We will likely see many more hs players in the draft each year than there were in years past if this rule goes into effect. Probably most of the top 15 prospects, maybe many more. Last year's MLB draft had 10 high school players in the first round. Even without a true farm system, NBA teams have proven that they don't mind drafting on potential and missing out on a player's best years (see high schoolers Jermaine O'Neal, Tracy McGrady, and Monta Ellis). The best teams would probably stock up on hs players at the end of the first round and let them rot in the NBDL. I could envision half of the second round being high school players. I just hope there is an option for the undrafted players to go to school.

This Is exactly why the two or none rule will almost surely never happen. While half of the college coaches are professing their love for the rule, not one person from the NBA side (players or owners) has any interest in it. Like you you said, such a rule would cause more high school players to declare for the draft, as it is much tougher to give up two years of earning potential with no chance to change your mind. From a players perspective, the Kwame Browns of the world were never the issue. While he was a bust from the perspective of a #1 pick, he still spent over a decade in the NBA. The bigger issue was guys like Lenny Cooke and Korleone Young, who never set foot on a NBA floor. These kinds of stories would become much more common, even with a rule allowing undrafted players to go to college. A significant part of the second round never earns a full NBA paycheck. For a baseball type rule to work, you need a baseball type minor league, that develop players over three to five years and not dump them if they haven't made an NBA roster after the first couple of years.

My preferred solution is something similar to MLS, where you have to be invited to enter the draft. You can be invited at any time, but can't enter otherwise. Those who are invited but drop out of the first round would still be guaranteed a first round level contract. The big issue is that MLS acts in the interest of the league over individual teams out of sheer necessity. The NBA has no such needs and finding people who a) care about the league, b) do not care about any individual team, and c) know what their doing with prospects, is near impossible. Such a system would likely devolve into gamesmanship between teams trying to keep guys out who they might not be able to get, or get guys in who they want.

langdonfan
04-16-2015, 10:52 AM
This Is exactly why the two or none rule will almost surely never happen. While half of the college coaches are professing their love for the rule, not one person from the NBA side (players or owners) has any interest in it. Like you you said, such a rule would cause more high school players to declare for the draft, as it is much tougher to give up two years of earning potential with no chance to change your mind. From a players perspective, the Kwame Browns of the world were never the issue. While he was a bust from the perspective of a #1 pick, he still spent over a decade in the NBA. The bigger issue was guys like Lenny Cooke and Korleone Young, who never set foot on a NBA floor. These kinds of stories would become much more common, even with a rule allowing undrafted players to go to college. A significant part of the second round never earns a full NBA paycheck. For a baseball type rule to work, you need a baseball type minor league, that develop players over three to five years and not dump them if they haven't made an NBA roster after the first couple of years.

My preferred solution is something similar to MLS, where you have to be invited to enter the draft. You can be invited at any time, but can't enter otherwise. Those who are invited but drop out of the first round would still be guaranteed a first round level contract. The big issue is that MLS acts in the interest of the league over individual teams out of sheer necessity. The NBA has no such needs and finding people who a) care about the league, b) do not care about any individual team, and c) know what their doing with prospects, is near impossible. Such a system would likely devolve into gamesmanship between teams trying to keep guys out who they might not be able to get, or get guys in who they want.

Good points. It will certainly be interesting to see where this goes come 2017. Adam Silver has actually stated that making the age limit 20 years old/2 years out of high school is his "top priority". I just don't see the players association going along with that. I don't know about the "invitation only" draft solution. You're right about MLS doing that out of necessity. These NBA teams would invite very young and unprepared players if the players expressed interest. Regardless of what the owners and general managers say, they're purely concerned with individual teams.

Dukehky
04-16-2015, 11:05 AM
We have a one and done solution. Bring in 3 one and dones, have them win a national championship, then let them go pro without anyone complaining about it.

Seriously, as long as they go to class when they're here and try hard, I don't care what they do. Sure it hurts the teams a little bit moving forward, but I find it unconscionable that this rule actually exists (NBA, not college). The scare stories they have about kids "not ready" to play in the NBA coming out of high school are so few and far between. Jonathan Bender, one of the biggest busts in NBA history, made over 30 million dollars.

The only solution to one and done should be let them go out of high school. If they start busting at a rapid rate, GMs will stop drafting them, and they will go to college.

Duke3517
04-16-2015, 11:06 AM
Honestly you need to let these kids make a choice. NBA or College. Having them go for one year is counter productive to them and to the university. I love Jahlil and his contributions to this years team in winning a national title but he had no business playing college basketball. He was way too good.

I think the problem is schools give these kids scholarships and take away a scholarship/acceptance from an actual student who actually want a degree and wants to contribute to the university in other ways.

Richard Berg
04-16-2015, 11:18 AM
If these athletes are going to Kentucky, Duke and UNC to become professional athletes then why not have each university create a separate PROFESSIONAL SCHOOL for these Athletes? These students would then be learning to become professional athletes and would take an appropriate curriculum: athletic training, nutrition, money management, public speaking, public relations, sports management, and coaching are a few ideas for classes. There could be one or two year professional degrees offered by each school depending on the professional students' schedule. These individuals would still be representing the university but would not have the same academic requirements as liberal arts students.
Why the big charade? Easier to just let universities lease their brand to bona-fide professional teams (NBADL or equivalent) and let each org focus on their core mission.

CameronBornAndBred
04-16-2015, 11:26 AM
Caulton Tudor wrote up an article not long ago highlighting why we are not likely to see a change any time soon, and it boils down to one thing. Money. The owners are saving millions by forcing the kids to go to school.


Not only do most owners like the system, they need it to save a lot of money on detailed, in-depth scouting.
Just as important – maybe more so – is that one-and-done gives those owners valuable defense against making the sort of humiliating draft-day selection blunders that enrage fans and alarm advertisers.
By forcing most of the top-rated high school players to go through one season of college competition – usually in the most successful, best-coached programs – owners get the sort of free live-fire auditioning they could never get from having their scouts watch high school games.

Assuming that he's right, then a two year requirement could work, but don't hold your breath on ever seeing a kid jump straight from HS to the pros again. (I'd be happy if they could ship straight to the D-League though, or Europe, which has been done recently.)
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/don-t-expect-nba-owners-union-to-end-one-and-one-era/14568176/