Retired Jerseys in the Future? What Would it Take?

[drcharl]

After a trip from the West Coast to see a game in Cameron this year, the retired jerseys in the rafters are truly an impressive display in Cameron. With the last one being JJ in 2007 and OAD, is it feasible to think of any future jersey retirement? Could a two year player do it?

Retired Jersey History
10 - Dick Groat May 1, 1952
25 - Art Heyman March 4, 1990
44 - Jeff Mullins December 6, 1994
43 - Mike Gminski February 20, 1980
24 - Johnny Dawkins February 22, 1986
35 - Danny Ferry February 18, 1989
32 - Christian Laettner February 26, 1992
11 - Bobby Hurley February 28, 1993
33 - Grant Hill February 27, 1994
31 - Shane Battier February 21, 2001
22 - Jason Williams February 5, 2003
23 - Shelden Williams January 28, 2007
4 - J.J. Redick February 4, 2007

[freshmanjs]

After a trip from the West Coast to see a game in Cameron this year, the retired jerseys in the rafters are truly an impressive display in Cameron. With the last one being JJ in 2007 and OAD, is it feasible to think of any future jersey retirement? Could a two year player do it?

Retired Jersey History
10 - Dick Groat May 1, 1952
25 - Art Heyman March 4, 1990
44 - Jeff Mullins December 6, 1994
43 - Mike Gminski February 20, 1980
24 - Johnny Dawkins February 22, 1986
35 - Danny Ferry February 18, 1989
32 - Christian Laettner February 26, 1992
11 - Bobby Hurley February 28, 1993
33 - Grant Hill February 27, 1994
31 - Shane Battier February 21, 2001
22 - Jason Williams February 5, 2003
23 - Shelden Williams January 28, 2007
4 - J.J. Redick February 4, 2007

A player like kaminsky could do it. Redick might have stayed 4 years even in the current environment.

[hurleyfor3]

Switching to a larger number base would help. Or fractions (http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/en.futurama/images/0/0c/ALeelaofHerOwn.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090716145134). (As it is now, the ncaa requires everyone to use base six.)

[LSanders]

Hasn't K's first requirement been to get a degree? I suppose a really dedicated 1 or 2 year NPOY dedicated enough to come back during many, many summers (assuming they can get all the classes they would need in the summer) could do it.

But, it seem like OAD means no more jerseys in the rafters unless you get really lucky and have that caliber player who pulls a Peyton Manning and stays in school.

[Newton_14]

After a trip from the West Coast to see a game in Cameron this year, the retired jerseys in the rafters are truly an impressive display in Cameron. With the last one being JJ in 2007 and OAD, is it feasible to think of any future jersey retirement? Could a two year player do it?

Retired Jersey History
10 - Dick Groat May 1, 1952
25 - Art Heyman March 4, 1990
44 - Jeff Mullins December 6, 1994
43 - Mike Gminski February 20, 1980
24 - Johnny Dawkins February 22, 1986
35 - Danny Ferry February 18, 1989
32 - Christian Laettner February 26, 1992
11 - Bobby Hurley February 28, 1993
33 - Grant Hill February 27, 1994
31 - Shane Battier February 21, 2001
22 - Jason Williams February 5, 2003
23 - Shelden Williams January 28, 2007
4 - J.J. Redick February 4, 2007

What would it take? Simple. A really good/great College player who has slim chances of ever being a high draft pick, which means he really has not shot at a NBA career, or at least not being a great NBA player, staying all 4 years at Duke and racking up lots of accomplishments. Most likely would be a small shooting guard or even a 6-5ish shooting guard that can kill it in college but doesn't have the skills required to play PG in the NBA.

The elite talent has almost no shot unless for some odd reason they stay 3 years. I do not see K or Duke ever retiring a kid's number who only stays 2 years and they certainly will never retire a kid that only stays one.

Interestingly enough, and I mentioned this in another thread, all 3 of Jahlil, Tyus, Justise projected to be 2000 point scorers while also getting high number in other areas such as rebounds for Jahlil and Justise, and assists for Tyus and Justise. Were these the old days and all 3 of those kids stayed at least 3 seasons, all 3 would most certainly end up in the rafters and would likely win at least 2 National titles and a couple of ACC titles. A shame they did not win an ACC title this season but they more than made up for it by bringing home the Natty.

If he stays all 4 seasons, Grayson is possibly a guy that could accomplish enough to get his jersey retired. That would be a really neat thing. I personally believe he has only scratched the surface of what he is capable of. He is not just a really good offensive player, he is also a really good rebounder and defensive player. He is going to hurt teams on both sides of the ball. Being a good 3 point shooter and an incredible drive and finish guy is going to make him really hard to guard in college. Can't wait to watch him develop.

[hurleyfor3]

What would it take? Simple. A really good/great College player who has slim chances of ever being a high draft pick, which means he really has not shot at a NBA career, or at least not being a great NBA player, staying all 4 years at Duke and racking up lots of accomplishments. Most likely would be a small shooting guard or even a 6-5ish shooting guard that can kill it in college but doesn't have the skills required to play PG in the NBA.

Or a 7-foot center with one move and who has an offense designed entirely around him. But this is Duke, so he'd actually have to attend class and learn stuff.

[vick]

Hasn't K's first requirement been to get a degree? I suppose a really dedicated 1 or 2 year NPOY dedicated enough to come back during many, many summers (assuming they can get all the classes they would need in the summer) could do it.

But, it seem like OAD means no more jerseys in the rafters unless you get really lucky and have that caliber player who pulls a Peyton Manning and stays in school.

I'm not sure why people are convinced it's impossible, even if you set the standard at player of the year (see ya, Mullins, Gminski, Hurley, Hill, and Shelden!). Just going through the people who won a major player of the year award, here is how long they stayed in school (not necessarily the year they won the award):

'06: Redick (sr), Morrison (jr)
'07: Durant (fr)
'08: Hansbrough (sr)
'09: Griffin (so)
'10: Turner (jr), Wall (fr)
'11: Fredette (sr)
'12: Davis (fr), Green (sr)
'13: Burke (so), Oladipo (jr)
'14: McDermott (sr)
'15: Kaminsky (sr)

Of the 14 players to win a significant player of the year award since the one and done rule came into effect, 9 of them played at least three years, and 6--or nearly half--were four year players.

So I don't think we're done hanging jerseys, even if the standards remain unchanged.

[uh_no]

I'm not sure why people are convinced it's impossible, even if you set the standard at player of the year (see ya, Mullins, Gminski, Hurley, Hill, and Shelden!). Just going through the people who won a major player of the year award, here is how long they stayed in school (not necessarily the year they won the award):

'06: Redick (sr), Morrison (jr)
'07: Durant (fr)
'08: Hansbrough (sr)
'09: Griffin (so)
'10: Turner (jr), Wall (fr)
'11: Fredette (sr)
'12: Davis (fr), Green (sr)
'13: Burke (so), Oladipo (jr)
'14: McDermott (sr)
'15: Kaminsky (sr)

Of the 14 players to win a significant player of the year award since the one and done rule came into effect, 9 of them played at least three years, and 6--or nearly half--were four year players.

So I don't think we're done hanging jerseys, even if the standards remain unchanged.

I think if tyus had been around Mason's senior year, mason 100% would have had a shot.

[77devil]

I'm not sure why people are convinced it's impossible, even if you set the standard at player of the year (see ya, Mullins, Gminski, Hurley, Hill, and Shelden!). Just going through the people who won a major player of the year award, here is how long they stayed in school (not necessarily the year they won the award):

'06: Redick (sr), Morrison (jr)
'07: Durant (fr)
'08: Hansbrough (sr)
'09: Griffin (so)
'10: Turner (jr), Wall (fr)
'11: Fredette (sr)
'12: Davis (fr), Green (sr)
'13: Burke (so), Oladipo (jr)
'14: McDermott (sr)
'15: Kaminsky (sr)

Of the 14 players to win a significant player of the year award since the one and done rule came into effect, 9 of them played at least three years, and 6--or nearly half--were four year players.

So I don't think we're done hanging jerseys, even if the standards remain unchanged.

NPOY is not a requirement but graduating is. Never say never, but since Kyle Singlet's jersey is not hanging, it seems highly unlikely we'll see it again in the K era.

[77devil]

I think if tyus had been around Mason's senior year, mason 100% would have had a shot.

No chance. Even with a NC in 2013, Mason's profile for the rafters doesn't come close.

[rifraf]

I was thinking earlier this week that Grayson has a shot. Not a great one but I think he at least has the potential to earn one of the various NPoY awards, and I'd be surprised to see him leave before his junior year.

[vick]

NPOY is not a requirement but graduating is. Never say never, but since Kyle Singlet's jersey is not hanging, it seems highly unlikely we'll see it again in the K era.

I know it's not a requirement. Frankly, the often-stated "requirements" (other than graduation) have always struck me as after-the-fact baloney anyway. But Singler never made a single AP All-American team in his entire career (he did make coaches' second team). Not sure he's the poster child for "if not him, who?"

[wsb3]

What would it take? Simple. A really good/great College player who has slim chances of ever being a high draft pick, which means he really has not shot at a NBA career, or at least not being a great NBA player, staying all 4 years at Duke and racking up lots of accomplishments. Most likely would be a small shooting guard or even a 6-5ish shooting guard that can kill it in college but doesn't have the skills required to play PG in the NBA.

Newton, I think you are right on the money with this. I think of JJ or for another school a player like Steve Alford. And for that horrific light shade of blue school, a player like Marcus Paige.

[77devil]

I know it's not a requirement. Frankly, the often-stated "requirements" (other than graduation) have always struck me as after-the-fact baloney anyway. But Singler never made a single AP All-American team in his entire career (he did make coaches' second team). Not sure he's the poster child for "if not him, who?"

I never said he's the poster child although he is 4th in scoring, 1st in minutes played (I think), 7th in rebounds, great defender, and always left it on the court. Invoking Kyle was because I think it's unlikely that a more talented player sticks around to achieve enough accolades or graduate.

[uh_no]

NPOY is not a requirement but graduating is. Never say never, but since Kyle Singlet's jersey is not hanging, it seems highly unlikely we'll see it again in the K era.

but some national award or record is most definitely a requirement. K has been quite consistent on the "unofficial" criteria over the years (despite others' insistence here). Never has he indicated team accolades play ANY part...they are honored with championship banners.

if mason had won POY (which I think a better facilitator might have helped...nothing against quinn this year, but he certainly had his faults while running the show), which there were some rumblings early in the season, he would have had a fighting shot to be up there. Ultimatly I agree he wouldn't. K has said that the national accolades and graduation are requirements, not guarantees, of enshrinement.

[duke09hms]

Nolan Smith has the best shot of players since JJ/Shelden. National champ, great captain, infectious personality, 2011 grad, ACC POY, and won some of the minor NPOY awards.

Could see the restrictions eased a bit for him given the OAD era. Yahoo and FoxSports NPOYs count for something right?

[uh_no]

Yahoo and FoxSports NPOYs count for something right?

not IMO.

the same as a helms title.

[SilkyJ]

I know it's not a requirement. Frankly, the often-stated "requirements" (other than graduation) have always struck me as after-the-fact baloney anyway. But Singler never made a single AP All-American team in his entire career (he did make coaches' second team). Not sure he's the poster child for "if not him, who?"

I'm under the impression that winning some sort of national award or setting a national record is a requirement as well. Defensive POY for shelden, for example...bobby set the NCAA mark for assists. That's probably what kept guys like Scheyer and Singler from getting up there. They are wayyy up there on all the stats charts and brought home a title, but no national award for either. (Not sure if 1st team AA would "count" or not...)

[flagellaman]

After a trip from the West Coast to see a game in Cameron this year, the retired jerseys in the rafters are truly an impressive display in Cameron. With the last one being JJ in 2007 and OAD, is it feasible to think of any future jersey retirement? Could a two year player do it?

Retired Jersey History
10 - Dick Groat May 1, 1952
25 - Art Heyman March 4, 1990
44 - Jeff Mullins December 6, 1994
43 - Mike Gminski February 20, 1980
24 - Johnny Dawkins February 22, 1986
35 - Danny Ferry February 18, 1989
32 - Christian Laettner February 26, 1992
11 - Bobby Hurley February 28, 1993
33 - Grant Hill February 27, 1994
31 - Shane Battier February 21, 2001
22 - Jason Williams February 5, 2003
23 - Shelden Williams January 28, 2007
4 - J.J. Redick February 4, 2007

Hmmm, I thought two basic criteria must hold true:


Graduate (Jason Williams graduated in three years, incidently).
1st Team All-American (consensus).


Some factors in addition to the two basics above probably cements the accolade.

National Player of the Year award would cement it, but graduated studs like Mike Gminski (Mark Aguirre, Larry Bird, Marque Johnson, Phil Ford, Butch Lee are Gminski's contemporaries who did win NPOYs), Grant Hill (Glenn Robinson swept during Hill's senior year) and Bobby Hurley (Calbert Cheney swept during Hurley's senior year) never won NPOY of any kind, although Hill did garner ACC Player of the Year; Rodney Rogers won ACC POY Hurley's senior year but G-man did win ACC POY his junior year). Dawkins only got Naismith POY (Walter Berry swept the others) and didn't get ACC POY (Len Bias did during Dawkins junior and senior years).

But then what about Nolan Smith (2011 consensus A-A and ACC POY, but not NPOY) and Chris Carrawell (2000 consensus A-A and ACC POY, but no NPOY)? No retired jerseys for them.

I believe a subjective angle kicks in here....and that is whether the b-ball staff and athletic director's office thought you distinguished yourself all four years, not just in stats, but leadership and other intangibles.

Smith didn't really shine his 1st two years. Carrawell started to make a bit of difference sophomore and junior year; but senior year he really came through. Players like Scheyer, Singler and Alarie had significant contributions all four years to the point they all scored 2077+ points in their career, but never pulled in consensus 1st team All-American awards.

Setting a new career record in a significant stats (points, rebounding, assists, blocked shots) probably helps. That might explain a player like Shelden Williams getting his jersey retired, but not Smith and Carrawell; Williams set career records in rebounds and blocked shots (in additional to A-A consensus and NDPOY).

Going forward, the first two factors ought to remain true. Retiring a jersey is an honor bestowed for a long, distinguished career. That's why you don't see Brand up there, despite ACC POY and NPOY in 1999. That's why you don't see Mark "The Bird" Fidrych in the baseball HOF.

If you start giving out the honor just for one special year, you'll run out of jerseys pretty quick. And it diminishes other honoree's for their longer achievements.

[uh_no]

Hmmm, I thought two basic criteria must hold true:


Graduate (Jason Williams graduated in three years, incidently).
1st Team All-American (consensus).



I've never heard this claimed by anyone related to the team.

K has repeatedly claimed (I've heard it from him at least twice) that it's either a national player of the year type award, or some sort of national record. I have no reason to doubt his word.

[duke09hms]

I've never heard this claimed by anyone related to the team.

K has repeatedly claimed (I've heard it from him at least twice) that it's either a national player of the year type award, or some sort of national record. I have no reason to doubt his word.

From the previous poster, neither Gminski or Hill (hard to believe) won a NPOY or set a national record.

I think Shelden just made the cutoff and Smith is right under it.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

I've never heard this claimed by anyone related to the team.

K has repeatedly claimed (I've heard it from him at least twice) that it's either a national player of the year type award, or some sort of national record. I have no reason to doubt his word.

Jeff Mullins does not meet that criteria. He was second team consensus All America in 1964; no NPOY or national record. He was ACC POY and a star player on Duke's first two final four teams.

[flagellaman]

I've never heard this claimed by anyone related to the team.

K has repeatedly claimed (I've heard it from him at least twice) that it's either a national player of the year type award, or some sort of national record. I have no reason to doubt his word.

Okay, I stand corrected and I don't doubt K's word either. So maybe not consensus 1st Team All-American. Jeff Mullins was not consensus 1st team according to this: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2012/Awards.pdf

But was consensus 2nd team A-A. Mullins did not win any NPOY or NDPOY. But Mullins was also before K's time and had his jersey retired during K's watch.

According to the GoDuke.com site: http://www.goduke.com/fls/4200/media-guides/mbb/2014-15/Tradition%20106-120.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=4200


Though there is no ‘official’ criteria to have a jersey retired at
Duke, a player must achieve at a national level — earn National
Player of the Year or National Defensive Player of the Year honors,
set an NCAA record, win a gold medal representing his country in the
Olympics or earn All-America recognition. What distinguishes Duke’s
retired jersey players from many other schools is the main criteria.
No jersey will be retired at Duke unless the player has earned his
degree.

Mullins would fall into this category. But so does Smith and Carrawell.

So there's still something subjective laid out by the staff.....

[flagellaman]

From the previous poster, neither Gminski or Hill (hard to believe) won a NPOY or set a national record.

I think Shelden just made the cutoff and Smith is right under it.

GHill did win a NDPOY (his junior year?). Too bad Hill's contemporary was Glenn Robinson, otherwise in any other year, Hill would have been NPOY. But Hill's a special case that I think everyone recognizes. He didn't even score 2000 points, but he was very all-around - rebounding, distributor, athletic, leader, scorer, defender.....all four years.

[duke09hms]

There's also the fact that standards are higher now than they were back then because our teams/players/recruits are so consistently elite. Duke players nowadays pretty much have to attain NPOY status to stand out as much as say Mullins/Gminski in prior decades.

There indeed is an element of subjectivity. Take Grant Hill's example. No NPOY award, but does anyone doubt his jersey retirement? I'd also maintain team success does contribute. For example, Grant's 3 championship appearances and 2 championships.

Which is why I think the line is drawn between Shelden and Nolan. Shelden got the NDPOY, career records not national records in rebs/blocks, and 1 FF. Smith just misses it even though he was ACC POY, 1 national championship, and 2 less-recognized NPOY awards.

[duke09hms]

GHill did win a NDPOY (his junior year?). Too bad Hill's contemporary was Glenn Robinson, otherwise in any other year, Hill would have been NPOY. But Hill's a special case that I think everyone recognizes. He didn't even score 2000 points, but he was very all-around - rebounding, distributor, athletic, leader, scorer, defender.....all four years.

Oops my bad. Then Gminski/Mullins are the only ones that don't qualify with national POY awards or national records. Probably just due to how good we've become under K. Standards are higher now.

[flagellaman]

There's also the fact that standards are higher now than they were back then because our teams/players/recruits are so consistently elite. Duke players nowadays pretty much have to attain NPOY status to stand out as much as say Mullins/Gminski in prior decades.

There indeed is an element of subjectivity. Take Grant Hill's example. No NPOY award, but does anyone doubt his jersey retirement? I'd also maintain team success does contribute. For example, Grant's 3 championship appearances and 2 championships.

Which is why I think the line is drawn between Shelden and Nolan. Shelden got the NDPOY, career records not national records in rebs/blocks, and 1 FF. Smith just misses it even though he was ACC POY, 1 national championship, and 2 less-recognized NPOY awards.

And actually, at the time of his graduation, G-Man did set the Duke career records in rebounding and blocked shot.

[duke09hms]

And also what about Tommy Amaker? NDPOY, Duke career records in steals (broken by Battier 14 yrs later) and Duke career assist record (broken by Hurley) to go along with a championship appearance.

I'd say that compares quite favorably to Shelden's NDPOY, career rebs/blocks, and 1 FF.

[uh_no]

And also what about Tommy Amaker? NDPOY, Duke career records in steals (broken by Battier 14 yrs later) and Duke career assist record (broken by Hurley) to go along with a championship appearance.

I'd say that compares quite favorably to Shelden's NDPOY, career rebs/blocks, and 1 FF.

Theres definitely subjectivity involved.

they're certainly base requirements, not guarantees.

[hurleyfor3]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the 2015 offseason!

[subzero02]

Tyus Jones

[uh_no]

Tyus Jones

supposing he DID stay 4 years to graduate, he doesn't strinke me as the kind of guy who's going to consistently put the point totals to get an NPOY as a guard. It's not that he CAN'T put up the point totals, just that he knows there are many situations where he knows it's better for the team to spread it around. we saw it all season....he had an uncanny ability to distribute when he needed, and score when he needed.

it's a fickle award too...you can be a beast, have a phenomenal season, and still get beaten by an upstart kid on a team who gets a gazillion points. i mean kemba walker getting beaten out by jimmer fredette? The point is that when it comes to guards all that matters is who puts up gaudy point totals without regard to context.

[FireOgilvie]

I think a guy like Luke Kennard has a shot. The key is to be a great scorer, but have some inherent physical limitation so that NBA teams don't want to take you in the lottery, "forcing" you to stay 4 years. JJ or Hansbrough are examples.

[FireOgilvie]

NPOY is not a requirement but graduating is. Never say never, but since Kyle Singlet's jersey is not hanging, it seems highly unlikely we'll see it again in the K era.


I know it's not a requirement. Frankly, the often-stated "requirements" (other than graduation) have always struck me as after-the-fact baloney anyway. But Singler never made a single AP All-American team in his entire career (he did make coaches' second team). Not sure he's the poster child for "if not him, who?"

Interesting statistic: JJ Redick only made 11 more FGs in his Duke career than Kyle Singler.

ACC career FGs since 1997 - http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/acc/leaders/fg-player-career.html

ACC career points since 1997 - http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/acc/leaders/pts-player-career.html

[swood1000]

There's also the fact that standards are higher now than they were back then because our teams/players/recruits are so consistently elite. Duke players nowadays pretty much have to attain NPOY status to stand out as much as say Mullins/Gminski in prior decades.

There indeed is an element of subjectivity. Take Grant Hill's example. No NPOY award, but does anyone doubt his jersey retirement? I'd also maintain team success does contribute. For example, Grant's 3 championship appearances and 2 championships.

Which is why I think the line is drawn between Shelden and Nolan. Shelden got the NDPOY, career records not national records in rebs/blocks, and 1 FF. Smith just misses it even though he was ACC POY, 1 national championship, and 2 less-recognized NPOY awards.
Coach K on Grant Hill: http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209796335

[NashvilleDevil]

I think a guy like Luke Kennard has a shot. The key is to be a great scorer, but have some inherent physical limitation so that NBA teams don't want to take you in the lottery, "forcing" you to stay 4 years. JJ or Hansbrough are examples.

I don't know if this qualifies (https://mobile.twitter.com/kingdomsprts/status/566442608059490304) as a physical limitation.

[langdonfan]

I don't think we will ever see a 1 year player have his jersey retired unless it's based on something other than his college career. Maybe someone who graduates and becomes an all-time great in the NBA (I'm talking Magic/MJ level). I am convinced that we will see a 2 year player who eventually graduates get retired. Elton, obviously, is the first one that comes to mind. Frankly, I think jersey retirements at top tier programs is going to become very rare unless players are eventually forced to play at least 2 years. Probably only a guy who is an all-league selections 2-3 years and breaks an all-time school record. So maybe not a Singler/Smith type but more of a Langdon type. I think the other option could be a player who has a fairly unspectacular first 3 years (Amile comes to mind) and a SHOCKING monster, NPOY caliber, senior year.

Trajan Langdon:
Consensus second-team All-American (1999)
Second-team All-American (1998)
Third-team All-American – (1998)
3x First-team All-ACC (1997–1999)
Most 3-pointers in Duke history (later broken by Redick)

I assume Trajan was not retired because he never won a Player of the Year award (National, Defensive, or ACC)

[yancem]

Kennard may be a possible future candidate. He seems like a guy that will be able contribute at least solid numbers right of the bat but may not have the sky high potential the nba craves to leave after only 1-2 years. I have heard him compared to Scheyer with maybe a little more athleticism and maybe a little better outside shot. If Duke has some significant success over the next 3-4 years with him playing a key roll, he could grow into an AA/NPOY type player and get his number in the rafters. Won't be easy but it isn't supposed to be.

[johnb]

Just like K substitutes based on his gut feeling, he likely picks retired jerseys. G Hill was going into the rafters regardless of external honors; K thinks he was our best player ever.

If Jah (or possibly Justise) came back next year, was consensus NPOY (and preferably led the team to a historically-successful year though that might be optional), and stayed in Durham taking summer classes while becoming an nba all star, I'd guess he'd get a retired jersey as soon as he got a degree.

[calvindog]

Gene Banks

[DukeTrinity11]

If Tyus Jones came back for his sophomore season and ended up being a 1st Team All-American, then his jersey will be in the rafters even if he went pro after his sophomore year. He would have accomplished as much Kyle and Nolan COMBINED on a national level (South Regional MOP, Final Four MOP, and 1st Team All-American) in 2 less years.

[johnb]

If Tyus Jones came back for his sophomore season and ended up being a 1st Team All-American, then his jersey will be in the rafters even if he went pro after his sophomore year. He would have accomplished as much Kyle and Nolan COMBINED on a national level (South Regional MOP, Final Four MOP, and 1st Team All-American) in 2 less years.

1st team AA isn't enough. Imho, you have to be the best player in the country, according to K, at least in regards to a major weapon (shooting, defense, or ball distribution) or in regards to being AGAG (as good as Grant).

Just as USA experience compresses athletic careers so that our guys can come in and dominate as freshmen, I'm guessing that K would be willing to retire the jersey of a 2-year player who was awesomely dominant as long as he eventually got a degree. I'm also guessing that he'll never retire a jersey just because the player was likable, a leader, or a real team guy. Tyus might be eligible if he came back for a 2nd year, but he'd have to be NPOY and then get a degree. I'd think Justise or Jah would be more likely to get it after 1 more year.

[sagegrouse]

I never said he's [Kyle Singler's] the poster child although he is 4th in scoring, 1st in minutes played (I think), 7th in rebounds, great defender, and always left it on the court. Invoking Kyle was because I think it's unlikely that a more talented player sticks around to achieve enough accolades or graduate.


Nolan Smith has the best shot of players since JJ/Shelden. National champ, great captain, infectious personality, 2011 grad, ACC POY, and won some of the minor NPOY awards.

Could see the restrictions eased a bit for him given the OAD era. Yahoo and FoxSports NPOYs count for something right?

The Kyle Singler boomlet was start by Coach K when it seemed possible that Nolan Smith might be NPOY, and therefore, a very strong candidate for jersey retirement. K signaled (Singlered?) that Nolan wouldn't go up there by himself -- Kyle was equally deserving.

[Li_Duke]

Tyus Jones

I'm going to say Tyus Jones as well. Both Mason Plumlee and Kyle Singler would have been sure-fire first round selections as freshman but decided to return, and despite good careers at Duke, never improved their stock. I can see that happening with Tyus. He's expected to go only around #20 if he declares for the draft, despite being MOP as a freshman. If he decides to returns, there's a good chance his stock could drop even as he improves. If so, his stock could fall to that first round-second round bubble, and he could choose to return again for his junior season. After that, he may decide "What the heck, I'll just stay all 4 years and see my jersey go up.".

[sagegrouse]

Jeff Mullins does not meet that criteria. He was second team consensus All America in 1964; no NPOY or national record. He was ACC POY and a star player on Duke's first two final four teams.

The somewhat elastic requirement also considers accomplishments outside of Duke. Jeff was an NBA all-star, got a ring for the '75 championship, won an Olympic gold medal in Tokyo, succeeded as CBB coach at Charlotte, and served at Duke as an assistant AD. Also, a heckuva nice guy.

The foregoing is what distinguishes Jeff from, say, Bob Verga, who has the college cred.

[wilson]

I'm going to say Tyus Jones as well. Both Mason Plumlee and Kyle Singler would have been sure-fire first round selections as freshman but decided to return, and despite good careers at Duke, never improved their stock. I can see that happening with Tyus. He's expected to go only around #20 if he declares for the draft, despite being MOP as a freshman. If he decides to returns, there's a good chance his stock could drop even as he improves. If so, his stock could fall to that first round-second round bubble, and he could choose to return again for his junior season. After that, he may decide "What the heck, I'll just stay all 4 years and see my jersey go up.".If Tyus Jones plays four years at Duke, I'll climb up there and hang the banner myself.

[Neals384]

NPOY is not a requirement but graduating is. Never say never, but since Kyle Singlet's jersey is not hanging, it seems highly unlikely we'll see it again in the K era.

I sure hope Kyle's singlet will not be hanging in Cameron;)

[neemizzle]

Since we're talking jersey retirement then, and possible candidates, I've seen it mentioned here, and we talk about Quinn Cook (who possibly could be the last of the really more deserving leaders Duke's had) being that guy to get it.

Is it possible to get a double retirement among both players? It's a dumb suggestion I know, go ahead and shun me from DBR haha. But a Quinn/Nolan retirement isn't entirely so dumb. They have a good bond together obviously. I just hate the possibility of NOT having another jersey retirement in this era of one and dones. I know they're making $$$ in the NBA. Selfish wishes I guess!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Since we're talking jersey retirement then, and possible candidates, I've seen it mentioned here, and we talk about Quinn Cook (who possibly could be the last of the really more deserving leaders Duke's had) being that guy to get it.

Is it possible to get a double retirement among both players? It's a dumb suggestion I know, go ahead and shun me from DBR haha. But a Quinn/Nolan retirement isn't entirely so dumb. They have a good bond together obviously. I just hate the possibility of NOT having another jersey retirement in this era of one and dones. I know they're making $$$ in the NBA. Selfish wishes I guess!

Cook has a "jersey in the rafters" senior season. Just a great performance. But Cook's freshman-junior years were incredibly underwhelming. Singler had really good freshman-senior years and Nolan had okay freshman-sophomore years, really good junior year, and incredible senior performance (1st Team All-American).

I would argue the following for your jersey in the rafters:

1) Nolan Smith (showed insane improvement every year, won a natty, 1st Team All-American, most involved Duke player in the Duke community)
2) Kyle Singler (incredibly consistent 4 years but never was considered the best player on his own team, won a natty)
3) Quinn Cook (incredible leadership, mediocre first three years, amazing senior year)

I like the idea of jerseys in the rafters, so I have no problem with all three of these players' numbers getting retired. But I understand why Nolan, Singler, and Cook won't have their jerseys retired.

[Native]

I've always thought it'd be cool to retire #2 for both Quinn and Nolan combined.