2015 NBA Early Entry [non-Duke players]

[JasonEvans]

Well, with the season almost over, we are starting to hear who will be back and will be leaving. Figure we need a thread to keep track of it all...

Myles Turner, who spent one relatively uninspired season at Texas, will turn pro (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/story/_/id/12586407/texas-longhorns-freshman-myles-turner-enter-nba-draft) and is a likely lottery pick. He scored in double figures exactly once in his final 8 games and played less than half the game in each of his final four games. Well, after having that much of an impact on the college game, I don't know how he could consider anything but turning pro. Sheesh!

Also declaring is RJ Hunter, who led Georgia State to a magical season. He's projected as a mid-late first rounder (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/story/_/id/12586154/rj-hunter-georgia-state-panthers-leaving-early-nba-draft) and felt like he simply had to take advantage of his high draft stock. Even the prospect of playing one last season for dear old dad could not convince him to come back.

-Jason "I need to look around to find some others so this thread is kept up to date..." Evans

[FerryFor50]

Well, with the season almost over, we are starting to hear who will be back and will be leaving. Figure we need a thread to keep track of it all...

Myles Turner, who spent one relatively uninspired season at Texas, will turn pro (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/story/_/id/12586407/texas-longhorns-freshman-myles-turner-enter-nba-draft) and is a likely lottery pick. He scored in double figures exactly once in his final 8 games and played less than half the game in each of his final four games. Well, after having that much of an impact on the college game, I don't know how he could consider anything but turning pro. Sheesh!

Also declaring is RJ Hunter, who led Georgia State to a magical season. He's projected as a mid-late first rounder (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/story/_/id/12586154/rj-hunter-georgia-state-panthers-leaving-early-nba-draft) and felt like he simply had to take advantage of his high draft stock. Even the prospect of playing one last season for dear old dad could not convince him to come back.

-Jason "I need to look around to find some others so this thread is kept up to date..." Evans

Rashard Vaughn of UNLV is also declaring:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--unlv-s-rashad-vaughn-plans-to-enter-nba-draft-151701382.html

As is Florida's Michael Frazier III

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/27/reports-michael-frazier-ii-will-declare-for-the-nba-draft/

This page is supposedly tracking it all:

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2015/3/28/8292641/nba-draft-underclassmen-tracker-2015

[JasonEvans]

Well, that didn't take long. RealGM has a page (http://basketball.realgm.com/news/wiretap/tags/44/NBA-Draft-Declarations) with all the declarations on it.

They say the following players are coming out...


Rashad Vaughn of UNLV - Projected as a 2nd rounder, but I suppose he could move up. Why is this kid rushing to the league? He had a very good freshman season and could have been an All-American contender if he had stuck around.
Jarrell Martin of LSU - Might sneak in to the late first round. If he and fellow soph Jordan Mickey had stuck around, combined with incoming freshmen Ben Simmons and Antonio Blakeney, LSU could have been a really talented team. Martin, Mickey, and Simmons would have been among the best front-lines in all of college hoops next season. Oh well.
Michael Frazier of Florida - Likely undrafted. He's a great shooter but the NBA apparently thinks he just isn't big enough to play 2-guard in the league. Supposedly, he's turning pro so he can play overseas.


-Jason "there will be oh so many more names added to this list..." Evans

[Olympic Fan]

Junior Montrezl Harrell of Louisville was honored at senior day at Louisville because he's said he's coming out. I guess he hasn't officially declared.

I was told that sophomore Terry Rozier also wanted to be honored at senior day, but Pitino would accept his departure. That doesn't mean he won't go, just that it won't be with Pitino's blessing.

[Billy Dat]

Junior Montrezl Harrell of Louisville was honored at senior day at Louisville because he's said he's coming out. I guess he hasn't officially declared.

I was told that sophomore Terry Rozier also wanted to be honored at senior day, but Pitino would accept his departure. That doesn't mean he won't go, just that it won't be with Pitino's blessing.

Gary Parrish ‏@GaryParrishCBS 30m30 minutes ago
Louisville coach Rick Pitino has announced that Montrezl Harrell and Terry Rozier are both entering the NBA Draft.

[gam7]

Gary Parrish ‏@GaryParrishCBS 30m30 minutes ago
Louisville coach Rick Pitino has announced that Montrezl Harrell and Terry Rozier are both entering the NBA Draft.

If projected draft rankings are to be believed, a lot of these announcements so far would be very relevant to Tyus's decision. For example, on draftexpress, Tyus is projected at 26, sandwiched between Hunter and Martin. Harrell is projected to go in the early 20s (though some others have him projected to go higher). Rozier is projected as early second round, but Chad Ford has him in the 20s. Turner has consistently been ranked in the mid-late lottery.

[SCMatt33]

Harrell hasn't officially announced. Pitimo claimed they were going. Rozier confirmed with a reporter. Harrell has not yet to my knowledge.

Others Leaving include:

RJ Hunter - Georgia State
Myles Turner - Texas

Georges Niang has announced that he is returning to Iowa State.

[Edouble]

Also declaring is RJ Hunter, who led Georgia State to a magical season. He's projected as a mid-late first rounder (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/story/_/id/12586154/rj-hunter-georgia-state-panthers-leaving-early-nba-draft) and felt like he simply had to take advantage of his high draft stock. Even the prospect of playing one last season for dear old dad could not convince him to come back.

-Jason "I need to look around to find some others so this thread is kept up to date..." Evans

Yeah, but he'd have to sit out a year after transferring!

[Newton_14]

Harrell hasn't officially announced. Pitimo claimed they were going. Rozier confirmed with a reporter. Harrell has not yet to my knowledge.

Others Leaving include:

RJ Hunter - Georgia State
Myles Turner - Texas

Georges Niang has announced that he is returning to Iowa State.

I think the Harrell thing was decided some time ago. Louisville honored him on their Sr night, so that one is a done deal I believe.

[Newton_14]

So updated per this thread... Did I miss anyone?


2015 NBA Early entry List
1. Montrez Harrell- Louisville
2. Terry Rozier- Louisvile
3. Myles Turner- Texas
4. R.J. Hunter- Georgia St
5. Rashard Vaughn- UNLV
6. Jarrell Martin- LSU
7. Michael Frazier- Florida

[CoachJ10]

So updated per this thread... Did I miss anyone?


2015 NBA Early entry List
1. Montrez Harrell- Louisville
2. Terry Rozier- Louisvile
3. Myles Turner- Texas
4. R.J. Hunter- Georgia St
5. Rashard Vaughn- UNLV
6. Jarrell Martin- LSU
7. Michael Frazier- Florida

I will take the under on whether any of these 7 will average more than 5 mins a game in the NBA. I think Harrell is going to be the most disappointing of that crowd. His skill level is just not high enough, even if he will "outhustle" his opponents.

No disrespect intended. Just no obvious nba talent here.

[JasonEvans]

Jarrell Martin of LSU - Might sneak in to the late first round. If he and fellow soph Jordan Mickey had stuck around, combined with incoming freshmen Ben Simmons and Antonio Blakeney, LSU could have been a really talented team. Martin, Mickey, and Simmons would have been among the best front-lines in all of college hoops next season.


As alluded to earlier, Jordan Mickey has made it official. He is also turning pro. Man, LSU could have been loaded! Oh well. Like his teammate, Mickey is not projected high enough to be certain of being a first round draft pick. He might, but he might not. What are these kids thinking? Well, I guess they are thinking that if they don't make it to the NBA, they will play overseas. What is the rush though?

And the latest news is that D'Vauntes Smith-Rivera, Georgetown's leading scorer, will also turn pro and hire an agent. Unlike most of the other guys, who seem to have a chance to be first rounder, Smith-Rivera simply does not have NBA size and is just not going to get drafted unless he just blows people away in workouts. He's a shooting guard who is just 6-3 and his arms aren't particularly long (his wingspan is just 6-3). 6-3 does not get it done on the wing in the NBA. By comparison, RJ Hunter (who is projected as a mid-late first rounder as a SG) is 6-5 with a wingspan of 6-9.5. Smith-Rivera has such a small chance at making the NBA, but maybe he just wanted to start his life. He's 22 and just completed his junior year at Georgetown. He had a great season and would have been a strong contender for Big East POY had he returned to the Hoyas. Really surprising loss for them that seriously affects their team next year.

So, to update Newton's list (and to put them in order of their expected draft stock)...

2015 NBA Early entry List
1. Myles Turner- Texas (mid-late lottery)
2. Montrez Harrell- Louisville (mid-first)
3. R.J. Hunter- Georgia St (mid-first)
4. Terry Rozier- Louisville (late-first, early-second)
5. Jarrell Martin- LSU (late-first, early-second)
6. Rashard Vaughn- UNLV (second)
7. Jordan Mickey - LSU (second)
8. Michael Frazier- Florida (undrafted)
9. D'Vauntes Smith-Rivera - Georgetown (undrafted)

-Jason "just my opinion from reading some draft analysis... I could be wrong" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Add Kelly Oubre of Kansas to the early entry list (http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/04/01/kansas-kelly-oubre-jr-2015-nba-draft). He had a good, but not amazing freshman season. Still, his stock is so high, he's got to go.

Also, Eastern Washington guard Tyler Harvey is reportedly entering the draft (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/apr/01/ewu-star-harvey-turn-pro/). Harvey, a soph, led the nation in 3-pointers made this season and averaged 23 ppg. He's a dynamic long-range shooter who could find his way on to the back end of a NBA roster, though he is far from a lock to even be drafted. Supposedly, he is not hiring an agent, so he may be testing the waters and could return to school.

And we apparently missed one. A few weeks ago forward Jerome Hill from Gardner-Webb declared for the draft (http://www.midmajormadness.com/big-south-conference/2015/3/10/8182645/gardner-webb-jerome-hill-leaving-go-pro-career-exclusive). He's 6-5... and he's a forward... and he's not an outside shooter. Ummm, methinks he won't hear his name called on NBA draft night.

2015 NBA Early entry List

Myles Turner- Texas (mid-late lottery)
Kelly Oubre - Kansas (late lottery)
Montrez Harrell- Louisville (mid-first)
R.J. Hunter- Georgia St (mid-first)
Terry Rozier- Louisville (late-first, early-second)
Jarrell Martin- LSU (late-first, early-second)
Rashard Vaughn- UNLV (second)
Jordan Mickey - LSU (second)
Tyler Harvey - Eastern Washington (second)
Michael Frazier- Florida (undrafted)
D'Vauntes Smith-Rivera - Georgetown (undrafted)
Jerome Hill - Gardner Webb (undrafted)


-Jason "lots of guys turn pro not for the NBA but because they are ready to start making money overseas" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

-Jason "lots of guys turn pro not for the NBA but because they are ready to start making money overseas" Evans

There's another reason -- sometimes guy turns pro to duck out of academic trouble. I know of a Duke football player in the 1990s who turned pro early to avoid announcing that he was academically ineligible.

[Henderson]

There's another reason -- sometimes guy turns pro to duck out of academic trouble. I know of a Duke football player in the 1990s who turned pro early to avoid announcing that he was academically ineligible.

I'm sure that happens, but I see it as a larger issue, with some guys just saying, "College isn't going to further my goals. What's next?" Some of them surely are academically capable but don't see it as the best professional path forward.

A lot of non-athletes face the same question: Why am I here? Are there better alternatives out there?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I will take the under on whether any of these 7 will average more than 5 mins a game in the NBA. I think Harrell is going to be the most disappointing of that crowd. His skill level is just not high enough, even if he will "outhustle" his opponents.

No disrespect intended. Just no obvious nba talent here.

I disagree vehemently. He's a big, physical kid (obviously less of an advantage at the next level) with lots of skill and a great mind for the game. He always seems to put himself in the right place to make a play and has a great head on his shoulders. I would be shocked if five years from now he's not one of a handful of players with a significant role on an NBA team from this class.

[gurufrisbee]

Frazier, Harvey, and Smith-Rivera are all basically the exact same player. Small guards who shoot from outside very well. I wonder why no one has sent the memo that college hoops is MADE for them and the NBA is absolutely not.

[Wander]

Georges Niang has announced that he is returning to Iowa State.

I think we can pretty much pencil in Iowa State, UNC, and UVA for preseason top 10 rankings next year.

[Hingeknocker]

Frazier, Harvey, and Smith-Rivera are all basically the exact same player. Small guards who shoot from outside very well. I wonder why no one has sent the memo that college hoops is MADE for them and the NBA is absolutely not.

That sort of ignores the point that there are other places to play professionally, and make a good living, than the NBA.

[Duvall]

I think we can pretty much pencil in Iowa State, UNC, and UVA for preseason top 10 rankings next year.

Well, you can pencil in UNC for a preseason top 10 ranking pretty much every year. It's the postseason top 10 rankings that have been tricky for them at times.



(Not next year, though. Maybe.)

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Reports are out that Rondae Hollis-Jefferson will be declaring.

[SCMatt33]

Chris McCullough from Syracuse Has also declared.

[Olympic Fan]

Chris McCullough from Syracuse Has also declared.

Wow! Huge blow for the Orange ... McCullough was a centerpiece of the plan Boeheim had in place to return to national contention next year. With an older Joseph at the point, with veterans Cooney and Gbinije on the wings, with explosive Malachi Richardson coming in -- and McCullough and Coleman coming back from injuries, the 'Cuse could have been a top 10 team next year.

This is kind of a Dion Glover kind of decision. Guy coming off a major injury realizes how fragile his success is and declares.

There was some speculation that Justin Anderson could make the same kind of call.

[CDu]

Wow! Huge blow for the Orange ... McCullough was a centerpiece of the plan Boeheim had in place to return to national contention next year. With an older Joseph at the point, with veterans Cooney and Gbinije on the wings, with explosive Malachi Richardson coming in -- and McCullough and Coleman coming back from injuries, the 'Cuse could have been a top 10 team next year.

This is kind of a Dion Glover kind of decision. Guy coming off a major injury realizes how fragile his success is and declares.

There was some speculation that Justin Anderson could make the same kind of call.

I wonder if the sanctions factor in as well. They aren't relevant for this coming year, but moreso over the next couple of years when the effects of reduced scholarship limits make maximizing recruiting "hits" more critical and minimize the flexibility to have "program" players. But definitely a big loss if he has (and if he stays) declared.

Anderson is an interesting one, too, although his case is entirely different (as his injury wasn't a career-threatening type of injury). He almost has to be in line for a letdown season next year, as there is just no way he maintains the 45% 3pt shooting he had this past year. I even wonder if he'll maintain the 36.7% 3pt percentage he had in ACC play (or the just-under-40% he had prior to return from injury in the ACC tourney). He's an NBA athlete and can defend the SG and SF spots right now, but his other skills are sorely lacking (can't dribble, isn't a great passer, etc). So if his 3pt shooting is indeed a mirage, his NBA future is fairly limited. The question then is whether or not going pro now (and hoping to get by on his November/December 3pt shooting brilliance) or come back and try to prove that he can sustain a ~40% shooting percentage over the course of a full season (not just have an overinflated pre-conference percentage that buoyed his season numbers thanks in part to missing several games as the competition increased) and be a legitimate "3 and D" guy. Tough call.

In some ways, he's got the same issue that Danny Green had: NBA size and athleticism (in his case, even more athletic than Green), potential as a 3pt shooter with good defensive skills, but not much skill elsewhere. Green ended up having to stay 4 years, and even still wasn't drafted in the 1st round.

[Olympic Fan]

FWIW, I was just checking the ESPN draft page, especially the article about who's in and who's out (its insider, so I can't link). It breaks all prospects down into four categories -- declared for the draft; one foot out the door; 50-50; and declared they are staying.

Interesting that McCullough shows up as "declared that he is staying" on the list, while a news story this morning is cited on ESPN that lists him as declaring.

Other ACC players on the list include a bunch of guys on the 50-50 list, including Marcus Paige and Brice Johnson of UNC, Olivier Hanlon of BC and Justin Anderson.

I know this thread is not about Duke guys, but they have Okafor listed as "one foot out the door" and Winslow in the 50-50 list. Tyus Jones is not mentioned.

I wouldn't read too much into that -- as the McCullough listing proves, it's not the most accurate list in the world.

[awhom111]

That sort of ignores the point that there are other places to play professionally, and make a good living, than the NBA.

When I get the chance, probably some time after the Final Four, I will dig out my list of past early entries and figure out where they played this season.

Combo type guards do get their chance overseas and often do well.

[JasonEvans]

FWIW, NBADraft.net has Tyus going #22 in this year's draft. DraftExpress has him #26 in this year's draft. The three experts on CBS Sports Draft page have him going #23, #24, and #29.

Now, I doubt anyone really knows what Tyus is thinking. I would expect Tyus is waiting until the season is done to really think about this NBA stuff. But, it is clear that many experts think he is likely to leave and that he would be a late first rounder if he did come out. On the one hand, first round means guaranteed money (probably in the neighborhood of $1 mil per year depending on where he goes in the mid-20s). But, with stock like this, it is possible that he slips into the second round with no guaranteed money. It will be a dicey decision. Will coming back help his stock at all? Does he want to go to the NBA and play 82 games next year travelling to 4 different cities in 5 days? Does he just want to prove himself against the very best in the world? How eager is he to get the clock started on his rookie deal so he can move onto the big bucks of a 2nd or 3rd contract?

We don't know any of these answers... but some folks seem to think we are the only ones talking about him coming out. The reality is that many NBA draft watchers believe Tyus will turn pro at this point.

-Jason "can I root for Duke to win the NCAA Tourney on the back of huge games from Matt, Quin, Amile, Grayson, and MP3? Ha!" Evans

[NSDukeFan]

-Jason "can I root for Duke to win the NCAA Tourney on the back of huge games from Matt, Quin, Amile, Grayson, and MP3? Ha!" Evans

We don't want them leaving as well. (;

[Olympic Fan]

Willie Cauley-Stein becomes the first Kentucky player to (informally) declare ... he's projected to go in the latter part of the top 10.

Lot of speculation on the Kentucky board as to who goes and who stays -- Adrian Wojnarowski (Laura Keeley's favorite writer) tweeted earlier today that seven Kentucky players would go -- Cauley-Stein, Towns, the Harrison twins, Trey Lyles, Devin Booker and Dakari Johnson.

Kentucky fans are trying to convince themselves that it will be significantly less than that -- but I remember what Calipari said back in November when the first talk of an undefeated season surfaced. He was asked his goal for this team and he said, "Eight first-round draft picks."

I guess he was counting on Alex Poythress too.

[Newton_14]

Willie Cauley-Stein becomes the first Kentucky player to (informally) declare ... he's projected to go in the latter part of the top 10.

Lot of speculation on the Kentucky board as to who goes and who stays -- Adrian Wojnarowski (Laura Keeley's favorite writer) tweeted earlier today that seven Kentucky players would go -- Cauley-Stein, Towns, the Harrison twins, Trey Lyles, Devin Booker and Dakari Johnson.

Kentucky fans are trying to convince themselves that it will be significantly less than that -- but I remember what Calipari said back in November when the first talk of an undefeated season surfaced. He was asked his goal for this team and he said, "Eight first-round draft picks."

I guess he was counting on Alex Poythress too.

I would guess there are 4 locks to go (Towns, Cauley-Stein, Harrison Twins), 1 who is likely (Lyles) and then two at 50/50 (Booker/Johnson). I am not gauging Poythress as the injury muddies the picture with him.

I will add that I feel teams are crazy if they use a Top 10 pick on Cauley-Stein. He can be a good NBA defender for sure, but he is going to help on one on offense. He has no semblance of an offensive game outside of dunking. I just don't see it. Freak athlete, and again, going to be a good, maybe even great defender in the NBA, but not so good I would burn a lottery pick on him. I would take Lyles ahead of him for sure.

[Wander]

I would guess there are 4 locks to go (Towns, Cauley-Stein, Harrison Twins), 1 who is likely (Lyles) and then two at 50/50 (Booker/Johnson). I am not gauging Poythress as the injury muddies the picture with him.

I will add that I feel teams are crazy if they use a Top 10 pick on Cauley-Stein. He can be a good NBA defender for sure, but he is going to help on one on offense. He has no semblance of an offensive game outside of dunking. I just don't see it. Freak athlete, and again, going to be a good, maybe even great defender in the NBA, but not so good I would burn a lottery pick on him. I would take Lyles ahead of him for sure.

Well, Lyles going ahead of him isn't inconsistent with Cauley-Stein going in the top 10. That being said I largely agree with you that he's a little overrated: I know this is an unfair small sample size, but even on the defensive side, look at the games that the Notre Dame and Wisconsin frontcourts had against him...

[ChillinDuke]

I would guess there are 4 locks to go (Towns, Cauley-Stein, Harrison Twins), 1 who is likely (Lyles) and then two at 50/50 (Booker/Johnson). I am not gauging Poythress as the injury muddies the picture with him.

I will add that I feel teams are crazy if they use a Top 10 pick on Cauley-Stein. He can be a good NBA defender for sure, but he is going to help on one on offense. He has no semblance of an offensive game outside of dunking. I just don't see it. Freak athlete, and again, going to be a good, maybe even great defender in the NBA, but not so good I would burn a lottery pick on him. I would take Lyles ahead of him for sure.

Agreed with all of this. Lyles is a really nice player. Cauley-Stein is a freak athlete in a small pond. We'll see how he stacks up when they're all freaks.

Also, if all 7 of those guys go then whoa. Does UK have a ton of firepower coming in? I'm sure they do but I didn't think next year's class was even close to this past year's. We're talking about a returning roster of Ulis, Lee, and Poythress? That's nowhere near as intimidating as C-S, 2 Twins, Johnson, Lee, and Poythress.

Wishful thinking, I'm sure.

CANT WAIT FOR TOMORROW!!!

- Chillin

[brlftz]

Well, Lyles going ahead of him isn't inconsistent with Cauley-Stein going in the top 10. That being said I largely agree with you that he's a little overrated: I know this is an unfair small sample size, but even on the defensive side, look at the games that the Notre Dame and Wisconsin frontcourts had against him...

WCS = Tyson Chandler

i'm guessing that's worth a top 10

[InSpades]

From a random sampling of mock drafts... they have 7 or 8 Kentucky guys going (Poythress being the difference). WCS gets picked at 10 and Lyles goes before him. Both of the Harrisons go in the 2nd round, Booker much higher at drafted in the 1st. Somehow Dakari Johnson gets drafted in the 1st round... not sure how though :).

If they are left w/ Ulis, Lee and Poythress then it should be interesting.

The goal of getting 8 guys drafted in the 1st round seems dead unless the Harrison twins shoot up the rankings.

I think Tyson Chandler is WCS's ceiling. If he is Tyson then yah, taking him in the top 10 makes a lot of sense. If he's not... I will note that he didn't block nearly as many shots as say Noel or Davis did in their brief time at Kentucky.

[Edouble]

WCS = Tyson Chandler

i'm guessing that's worth a top 10

Tyson Chandler took a while to develop in the pros.

I will second the notion that WCS is not worth a top 10 pick. Use your top 10 pick on someone else and then call Larry Sanders.

[CDu]

Agreed with all of this. Lyles is a really nice player. Cauley-Stein is a freak athlete in a small pond. We'll see how he stacks up when they're all freaks.

Also, if all 7 of those guys go then whoa. Does UK have a ton of firepower coming in? I'm sure they do but I didn't think next year's class was even close to this past year's. We're talking about a returning roster of Ulis, Lee, and Poythress? That's nowhere near as intimidating as C-S, 2 Twins, Johnson, Lee, and Poythress.

Wishful thinking, I'm sure.

CANT WAIT FOR TOMORROW!!!

- Chillin

Judging by the McDonald's game, there is very little in this year's freshman class to get fired up about. Very unimpressive game. Those games are always sloppy, but you can usually see talent. Aside from Jaylen Brown (at times), that game was a train wreck.

If Kentucky is losing that many guys, they could be in for a not-so-hot year next year. Of course, they do play in the SEC, so they'll probably still win 25+ games before the NCAA tournament.

It is crazy to me that Dakari Johnson - a guy who has averaged just ~15mpg over two seasons at Kentucky (never more than 16.3mpg) - is thinking of going pro. And crazier that some project him as a first round pick.

[bob blue devil]

Is there a reason the Harrison twins are assumed to be gone even though it looks like they have no shot at first round and could go undrafted?

[tux]

Is there a reason the Harrison twins are assumed to be gone even though it looks like they have no shot at first round and could go undrafted?

I'm not high on the twins or WCS in terms of NBA potential. I think Towns is the only really elite talent on that team. I'm intrigued by Lyles but unsure about Booker. Booker has a nice shot, but isn't all that dynamic IMO --- and is clueless on D right now. If they all did the smart thing, then only Towns and WCS would go (and maybe Lyles) and everyone else would stay. That would be a great returning team. But boneheadedness seems to prevail this time of year...

[GGLC]

Is there a reason the Harrison twins are assumed to be gone even though it looks like they have no shot at first round and could go undrafted?

Because "student athlete" is a joke at Kentucky?

[tux]

Because "student athlete" is a joke at Kentucky?

You may be right but I have to say that having seen the UK kids interviewed several times, they really seem like a great group of guys. Towns and WCS in particular seem to be well grounded.

I don't know what to make of Calipari. He's finally at a place where he doesn't have to cheat to get great recruits and win. What he's pulled off is pretty amazing and I think almost every coach in the country would happily take his one-and-done recruits every year. The guys who say they wouldn't just can't land those kids on a consistent basis IMO.

[BD80]

Is there a reason the Harrison twins are assumed to be gone even though it looks like they have no shot at first round and could go undrafted?


Because "student athlete" is a joke at Kentucky?

Because their stock won't go much higher, and they really aren't the college type. Their attitude is more the "if I'm gonna work this hard, I best be getting paid" attitude.

Ky does have some great kids. I wouldn't put the twins on that list.

At many schools, seeing which players continue going to class after the tournament is typically revealing. Not sure if that would be true at Ky.

We know it doesn't matter at unc.

[Skitzle]

You may be right but I have to say that having seen the UK kids interviewed several times, they really seem like a great group of guys. Towns and WCS in particular seem to be well grounded.

I don't know what to make of Calipari. He's finally at a place where he doesn't have to cheat to get great recruits and win. What he's pulled off is pretty amazing and I think almost every coach in the country would happily take his one-and-done recruits every year. The guys who say they wouldn't just can't land those kids on a consistent basis IMO.

I don't have time to do the research, but Calipari has a good record of "recruiting" one and dones, but his record of actually getting them there isn't as good.

I'd guess that only 50% of his expected "one-and-dones" end up actual "one-and-dones". Duke on the other hand, only McRoberts fits into this category, and Deng was not an expected one-and-done who went pro.

Anyone want to look into the numbers?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I don't have time to do the research, but Calipari has a good record of "recruiting" one and dones, but his record of actually getting them there isn't as good.

I'd guess that only 50% of his expected "one-and-dones" end up actual "one-and-dones". 100% of Duke's one and done players have been one and done :D

Anyone want to look into the numbers?

Well, it depends on how you determine "expected one and dones" and also how you measure success. Jason Williams could have gone pro after his freshman year. Do we consider his return for Sophomore and Junior campaigns a failure? I sure don't.

[Newton_14]

No rumor mongering about Duke players please. In this thread or any thread.

Thank you!

[Skitzle]

At many schools, seeing which players continue going to class after the tournament is typically revealing. Not sure if that would be true at Ky.

We know it doesn't matter at unc.

Truth, they never even went to class before the tournament.

[Henderson]

Probably not news to anyone who's been following this stuff, but Justin Jackson and Brice Johnson are both staying at UNC-CH.

I really thought there was a chance that, despite low NBA draft prospects, one or more Carolina players would decide to get out of Chapel Hill. There may yet be a surprise out there, but I'm coming around to the the idea that I was likely wrong.

[Bluedog]

I don't have time to do the research, but Calipari has a good record of "recruiting" one and dones, but his record of actually getting them there isn't as good.

I'd guess that only 50% of his expected "one-and-dones" end up actual "one-and-dones". Duke on the other hand, only McRoberts fits into this category, and Deng was not an expected one-and-done who went pro.

Anyone want to look into the numbers?

There are others...Singler could have gone pro after his junior year for sure (not one and done, I realize -- but he was a top 5 recruit coming out of high school and I believe all 4 guys ahead of him went pro after their freshmen season). Mason Plumlee said he never thought he'd have stayed at Duke four years coming in, but that's what ended up happening. For the first 2-3 years of Cal at UK, it seemed like all the expected one-and-dones became one-and-dones, but he has recently in the past couple years had guys come back that some expected to leave. It ebbs and flows -- the sample sizes aren't the large.

[JasonEvans]

Nebraska juniors Terran Petteway and Walter Pitchford are both reportedly declaring. Petteway, who led Nebraska with more than 18 ppg this season, would probably be a 2nd rounder who could slip into the first if things go well in workouts. Petteway says he has not yet made up his mind, so this may be premature. Pitchford is the guy who said a week or two ago that he was quitting basketball to focus on completing his degree. Well, he changed his mind but he still does not want to play for Nebraska so he is turning pro. He averaged about 7 ppg as a junior and is not really on anyone's draft radar. If he plays, it would be D-League or overseas.

Also, Murray St soph guard Cameron Payne is apparently entering the draft. He's expected to be a mid-first rounder after averaging better than 20 ppg and winning Ohio Valley Conference POY this past season.

-Jason "in terms of maximizing media attention, everyone wants to wait until after the championship tonight to announce their decisions" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Probably not news to anyone who's been following this stuff, but Justin Jackson and Brice Johnson are both staying at UNC-CH.

I really thought there was a chance that, despite low NBA draft prospects, one or more Carolina players would decide to get out of Chapel Hill. There may yet be a surprise out there, but I'm coming around to the the idea that I was likely wrong.

The Heels will easily be preseason top ten, maybe top 5.

Of course, they were preseason #6 this year and the season ended up pretty darn disappointing for them given those lofty expectations.

-Jason "they need to win now because the stink of NCAA sanctions is leaving the cupboard quite bare looking into the near future" Evans

[CDu]

The Heels will easily be preseason top ten, maybe top 5.

Of course, they were preseason #6 this year and the season ended up pretty darn disappointing for them given those lofty expectations.

-Jason "they need to win now because the stink of NCAA sanctions is leaving the cupboard quite bare looking into the near future" Evans

Yeah, assuming Jackson, Johnson, and Paige all stay (and there is no reason to assume they'll leave), UNC should be very good next year. Jackson was really finding his form, and Paige should be healthy. That trio forms a very dangerous scoring punch, and that ignores Meeks and Tokoto who can both punish you if you forget about them.

And, perhaps even better than that, there is a real chance that Roy is forced to play a shorter rotation next year. As is, there are no significant recruits coming to UNC in this upcoming class. With Simmons and Hubert graduating, there will only be the two options at C (Meeks and James) and two options at PF (Johnson and Hicks). So Roy will be forced to play his main guys more minutes next year, which is to UNC's advantage.

[NSDukeFan]

Yeah, assuming Jackson, Johnson, and Paige all stay (and there is no reason to assume they'll leave), UNC should be very good next year. Jackson was really finding his form, and Paige should be healthy. That trio forms a very dangerous scoring punch, and that ignores Meeks and Tokoto who can both punish you if you forget about them.

And, perhaps even better than that, there is a real chance that Roy is forced to play a shorter rotation next year. As is, there are no significant recruits coming to UNC in this upcoming class. With Simmons and Hubert graduating, there will only be the two options at C (Meeks and James) and two options at PF (Johnson and Hicks). So Roy will be forced to play his main guys more minutes next year, which is to UNC's advantage.

I agree UNC looks like they will be solid next year.
If Roy doesn't have a large rotation, who does he sacrifice when he and the coaching staff need to get away to avoid a court storming?

[BD80]

... If Roy doesn't have a large rotation, who does he sacrifice when he and the coaching staff need to get away to avoid a court storming?

ol' roy's been saving up timeouts for years and years for just such an emergency.

[Duke95]

UNC and UVa will both be top 5 next year.

It's possible UNC will be enjoying a postseason ban though, therefore robbing them of the opportunity to beat themselves in the postseason.

[Nugget]

Yeah, assuming Jackson, Johnson, and Paige all stay (and there is no reason to assume they'll leave), UNC should be very good next year. Jackson was really finding his form, and Paige should be healthy. That trio forms a very dangerous scoring punch, and that ignores Meeks and Tokoto who can both punish you if you forget about them.

And, perhaps even better than that, there is a real chance that Roy is forced to play a shorter rotation next year. As is, there are no significant recruits coming to UNC in this upcoming class. With Simmons and Hubert graduating, there will only be the two options at C (Meeks and James) and two options at PF (Johnson and Hicks). So Roy will be forced to play his main guys more minutes next year, which is to UNC's advantage.

Pretty amazing that Paige will be a (very, very good) four year player, while Tyus is likely to be one and done.

Hard for me to see how Tyus' long-term pro prospects are appreciably better than Paige's. Both are clearly under-sized for the NBA, neither is a great lock-down defender or explosive driver/finisher (what Tyus gets away with as his finishes in college won't work in the NBA). Maybe he's a bit better play-maker (though, honestly, I'd say not by much) and doesn't turn it over as much, but Paige is I think a better shooter -- his numbers are just a bit better than Tyus' 39% to 37% on threes, but he's had to take much tougher shots that Tyus given UNC's lack of any other credible outside shooter.

[Wander]

And, perhaps even better than that, there is a real chance that Roy is forced to play a shorter rotation next year. As is, there are no significant recruits coming to UNC in this upcoming class. With Simmons and Hubert graduating, there will only be the two options at C (Meeks and James) and two options at PF (Johnson and Hicks). So Roy will be forced to play his main guys more minutes next year, which is to UNC's advantage.

I don't think Roy will be forced to play a shorter rotation as he'll have basically the same team with +1 year of experience. Now, I think he might, as he showed some hints of that late in this season, and I agree with you that doing so would be extremely beneficial. A 7-man rotation of Paige, Jackson, and Berry in the backcourt with Tokoto, Johnson, Meeks, and Hicks in the frontcourt, where three of those players are seniors and none are freshmen, is national title contending good, especially if Jackson and Berry spend the offseason working on jump shots. But if he insists on playing at an ultra-fast pace and giving prominent roles to the other guys, they'll be good but I don't think will reach their potential.

The ACC is going to be really good at the top next season between them and NC State and UVA and hopefully us.

[Wander]

Pretty amazing that Paige will be a (very, very good) four year player, while Tyus is likely to be one and done.

Hard for me to see how Tyus' long-term pro prospects are appreciably better than Paige's. Both are clearly under-sized for the NBA, neither is a great lock-down defender or explosive driver/finisher (what Tyus gets away with as his finishes in college won't work in the NBA). Maybe he's a bit better play-maker (though, honestly, I'd say not by much) and doesn't turn it over as much, but Paige is I think a better shooter -- his numbers are just a bit better than Tyus' 39% to 37% on threes, but he's had to take much tougher shots that Tyus given UNC's lack of any other credible outside shooter.

Well, you're comparing junior Paige to freshman Tyus. Paige wasn't as good of a shooter when he was Tyus' age.

Paige is a very good college player but I think Tyus has a much better feel for the game than Paige does. There's always been some doubt - at least to me - as to whether UNC is better off with Paige at the point or moving to shooting guard a la Nolan Smith or Quinn Cook. There is no such doubt with Tyus and never has been.

[CDu]

Well, you're comparing junior Paige to freshman Tyus. Paige wasn't as good of a shooter when he was Tyus' age.

Paige is a very good college player but I think Tyus has a much better feel for the game than Paige does. There's always been some doubt - at least to me - as to whether UNC is better off with Paige at the point or moving to shooting guard a la Nolan Smith or Quinn Cook. There is no such doubt with Tyus and never has been.

Right on both counts in my opinion. The two key differences are that Paige was a too-skinny, inconsistent shooting, limited playmaking PG as a frosh. He was a star as a soph, but that was done moreso playing in an off-ball role. And he was hurt this year. Had Paige gone pro last year, he would have been a late-firstish pick (like Jones would be this year). He came back and didn't help his stock thanks to injury.

Jones is all PG whereas Paige is an undersized combo guard. But most importantly, Paige wasn't nearly the player Jones is when Paige was a frosh. Those two things go a long way in explaining the discrepancy.

[timmy c]

Because their stock won't go much higher, and they really aren't the college type. Their attitude is more the "if I'm gonna work this hard, I best be getting paid" attitude.

Ky does have some great kids. I wouldn't put the twins on that list.

At many schools, seeing which players continue going to class after the tournament is typically revealing. Not sure if that would be true at Ky.

We know it doesn't matter at unc.

I agree BD80, the stock issue is a significant one. Their stock has dropped from early 2nd round (last year) to late 2nd round or undrafted. They are going the wrong way.

In addition I would add two other reasons they're gone:

1) Their ball dominant style impedes the growth of other star players.
Last year, the twins were mediocre players on a shorthanded team. The team only played well in the tournament because Calapari had a secret heart-to-heart with the twins demanding they pass the ball and their ability to hit some savior shots at the end of games. At many points during this year, UK had it most talented team with its Harrison platoon, but it’s most effective team was the platoon lead by Tyler Ulis. I know Wisconsin is big, but not as big as UK. Cauley-Stein had 2 points, Dakari had 0, Lee had 0 in the game against Wisconsin. The only way I can explain this is really crappy distribution from the guards.

2) Backlog of current players affects future recruits (Cal the recruiter wants them out).
Ulis showed some promise this year and top twenty recruit Isaiah Briscoe is coming in next year. UK is also in hot pursuit of Malik Newman, the top Combo guard in 2015. If both those guys have to play behind the Harrison’s it makes it hard for Calapari to continue recruit the top talent. If those guys play ahead of the Harrison’s it ruins the narrative that UK is the best place to get prepared for the NBA.
Calapari needs them gone. He is already spinning his narrative

“I believe they will be when you get the workouts and the interviews and you see their size and their athleticism and all that – when you meet them and say, ‘Those are two of the greatest kids; where did all this other stuff come from? Where’s this narrative? It’s not true,’ ” Calipari said, per the Courier-Journal. “And then I think what’ll happen is they’ll both be in the first round. But even if they’re not, it’ll be shortly thereafter. … There’s so many variables, but I would be surprised if both of them weren’t first-round picks.”
However a current NBA scout disagrees

“To say that they’re first rounders, Cal knows better than to think that both those kids are first-rounders,” he said. “I mean, come on, no chance. I’ll bet a million dollars they’re both not drafted in the first round. I don’t care if they go and interview well and they’re good kids. I don’t see it happening. I think he wants them gone, too.
http://zagsblog.com/articles/calipari-says-at-least-5-kentucky-players-likely-headed-to-nba/

[Forrest]

The Heels will easily be preseason top ten, maybe top 5.

In 2011, Vanderbilt earned a 5 seed in the NCAA tournament and finished 23-11. In 2012, they returned their entire starting five, including three likely late first/early second round draft picks in John Jenkins, Festus Ezeli, and Jeff Taylor. The Commodores were a trendy top 10 pick before the season, seventh in both major preseason polls.

They did beat national champion Kentucky to win the SEC tournament, but still earned a 5 seed, lost in the round of 32 to 4 seed Wisconsin, and finished 25-11. They were only a tiny bit better in 2012 than in 2011.

Sure, UNC gets Marcus Paige, Brice Johnson and Justin Jackson back, as well as their other two starters. Like 2012 Vandy, though, that doesn't guarantee they'll be significantly better, or better at all. Those three could stay at UNC for six years and still not be able to compete with the Okafors and Winslows of the college world. Ol' Roy is recruiting 4-star type players, and I think he's going to end up with 4-star type teams.

[CDu]

In 2011, Vanderbilt earned a 5 seed in the NCAA tournament and finished 23-11. In 2012, they returned their entire starting five, including three likely late first/early second round draft picks in John Jenkins, Festus Ezeli, and Jeff Taylor. The Commodores were a trendy top 10 pick before the season, seventh in both major preseason polls.

They did beat national champion Kentucky to win the SEC tournament, but still earned a 5 seed, lost in the round of 32 to 4 seed Wisconsin, and finished 25-11. They were only a tiny bit better in 2012 than in 2011.

Sure, UNC gets Marcus Paige, Brice Johnson and Justin Jackson back, as well as their other two starters. Like 2012 Vandy, though, that doesn't guarantee they'll be significantly better, or better at all. Those three could stay at UNC for six years and still not be able to compete with the Okafors and Winslows of the college world. Ol' Roy is recruiting 4-star type players, and I think he's going to end up with 4-star type teams.

All of this is true, but omits one key piece of information: next year's freshman class lacks the Okafors and Winslows in it. It is not so much about how great UNC will be, but how much weaker the ACC may be. Of the big boys in the conference, Notre Dame Duke, Louisville, and Syracuse get noticeably weaker, and UVa has to replace their best defender. Only State and maybe UVa look to return nearly as much.

UNC won't suddenly have the horses to consistently match up with the elite talents, but next year they may not need that level of talent.

[bob blue devil]

In 2011, Vanderbilt earned a 5 seed in the NCAA tournament and finished 23-11. In 2012, they returned their entire starting five, including three likely late first/early second round draft picks in John Jenkins, Festus Ezeli, and Jeff Taylor. The Commodores were a trendy top 10 pick before the season, seventh in both major preseason polls.

They did beat national champion Kentucky to win the SEC tournament, but still earned a 5 seed, lost in the round of 32 to 4 seed Wisconsin, and finished 25-11. They were only a tiny bit better in 2012 than in 2011.

Sure, UNC gets Marcus Paige, Brice Johnson and Justin Jackson back, as well as their other two starters. Like 2012 Vandy, though, that doesn't guarantee they'll be significantly better, or better at all. Those three could stay at UNC for six years and still not be able to compete with the Okafors and Winslows of the college world. Ol' Roy is recruiting 4-star type players, and I think he's going to end up with 4-star type teams.

n=1. wisconsin, msu, virginia, villanova, and notre dame all did quite well with ~4 star players. agree there are no guarantees that unc gets better, but the tendency is for players to improve over time, even to an extent at unc. i think they'll be at least top 10 in the final ap poll.

[Pghdukie]

Per LA Times, Kevon Looney just declared for the draft

[arnie]

n=1. wisconsin, msu, virginia, villanova, and notre dame all did quite well with ~4 star players. agree there are no guarantees that unc gets better, but the tendency is for players to improve over time, even to an extent at unc. i think they'll be at least top 10 in the final ap poll.

Those 1st line teams have 5 star coaches. Don't think Roy is so good with 4-star players.

[NashvilleDevil]

In a usa today column calipari is saying that 5 (Harrisons, Towns, Cauley-Stein, Dakari). He says up to 7 could be gone

[Newton_14]

In a usa today column calipari is saying that 5 (Harrisons, Towns, Cauley-Stein, Dakari). He says up to 7 could be gone
I hope he is right! He is pumping the Harrison Twins hard as 1st Rounders... is that an attempt to help sway someone to take his two guards in the 1st Rd, or is that an attempt to make darn sure they leave his team... inquiring minds and all that.

That said, I hope they all go. Like all of them. All 5 starters, all 5 "reinforcements". That would be sweet. As weak as this year's recruiting class is, there would be hard times in good ol Lexington next season so all the Kentucky fans can head back to the couch.

[Duvall]

Two and through: Harrison twins reportedly leaving UK. (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25140620/uks-harrison-twins-to-enter-draft)


Kentucky sophomores Andrew Harrison and Aaron Harrison have decided to enter the 2015 NBA Draft and are expected to formally announce their plans soon, a source told CBSSports.com on Wednesday afternoon.

RealGM.com is reporting that both have already settled on an agent.

[BD80]

Two and through: Harrison twins reportedly leaving UK. (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25140620/uks-harrison-twins-to-enter-draft)

Shocked. Shocked I tell you.

I wonder how long Coach Cal's handprints will remain visible on their backs?

[weezie]

Shocked. Shocked I tell you.

I wonder how long Coach Cal's handprints will remain visible on their backs?

Bootprints, I think you mean.

[NashvilleDevil]

I think I saw on twitter that the Harrison's drop out of the top 10 will be used against Cal on the recruiting trail. Entering last year the twins were both top 10 recruits and considered lottery picks. I believe one was rated higher than Jabari by one of the recruiting services. Fast forward two years later and they are leaving and they are not guaranteed to be 1st round picks. Cal obviously hit the jackpot with Rose, Wall, Boogie, and AD but the other can't miss OAD he has recruited have not always lived up to the hype.

[Duvall]

Dakari Johnson also reportedly declaring for some reason. (http://zagsblog.com/kentucky/kentuckys-dakari-johnson-will-declare-for-nba-draft/)


Kentucky sophomore center Dakari Johnson will declare for the NBA Draft, a source close to the situation told SNY.tv.

Kentucky has a press conference set for 2:30 p.m. on Thursday that “will include UK players who are ready to announce their NBA Draft decisions, as well as head coach John Calipari,” the school announced.

[CDu]

Wonde if UK is looking at a down year next year. No Towns, Cauley-Stein, Harrisons, or Johnson. Returning players include Poythress, Ulis, Lee, and Booker (maybe?), plus some of the upper recruits in a very blah incoming class. I am sure they will fare well in the SEC, but on a national stage?

[NSDukeFan]

Dakari Johnson also reportedly declaring for some reason. (http://zagsblog.com/kentucky/kentuckys-dakari-johnson-will-declare-for-nba-draft/)
Daniel Orton 2.0?

[Duvall]

Wonde if UK is looking at a down year next year. No Towns, Cauley-Stein, Harrisons, or Johnson. Returning players include Poythress, Ulis, Lee, and Booker (maybe?), plus some of the upper recruits in a very blah incoming class. I am sure they will fare well in the SEC, but on a national stage?

Ulis, Booker and some top recruits should be enough for a top ten team. If Booker leaves...

[Henderson]

Daniel Orton 2.0?

Dakari Johnson might benefit from another year, but the Cal message ("We recruit you to go to the NBA ASAP") puts pressure on guys.

If they don't go, part of the zeitgeist says, "You were recruited as an extraordinary player to get to the NBA as soon as you are ready, and now you're not? What's wrong with you? Guess you weren't as good as we thought."

This points to a downside to the Calapari system in my view: He's made the standard getting to the NBA, and as quickly as possible. I'm not sure what's left of his message to recruits if his guys become junior and seniors.

[dukelion]

Ulis, Booker and some top recruits should be enough for a top ten team. If Booker leaves...

Booker really should go as I can't see his stock (i.e. late lottery) getting any higher.

He benefited tremendously from teams having to collapse the middle to try to control Towns, WCS, Dakari and Lyles. The majority of his threes were severely uncontested and I think if he comes back and becomes the focal point of the offense some of his weaknesses (i.e. lack of athleticism) will be highlighted. He also only shot 41% from three after suffering through a pretty severe late season slump. While that's still a decent number it certainly isn't elite like it appeared to be earlier in the season. Again, if he becomes the focal point he'll start drawing some elite defenders which wasn't necessarily the case this year.

Additionally, his defensive limitations were aided greatly by having elite level shot blockers behind him at all times. Again, that might not be the case next year and as such his lateral quickness will be called into question.

He needs to declare.

[dukelion]

Dakari Johnson might benefit from another year, but the Cal message ("We recruit you to go to the NBA ASAP") puts pressure on guys.

If they don't go, part of the zeitgeist says, "You were recruited as an extraordinary player to get to the NBA as soon as you are ready, and now you're not? What's wrong with you? Guess you weren't as good as we thought."

This points to a downside to the Calapari system in my view: He's made the standard getting to the NBA, and as quickly as possible. I'm not sure what's left of his message to recruits if his guys become junior and seniors.

Completely agree.

Dakari doesn't appear far from developing a few consistent post moves and if he does then his ceiling is through the roof.

But I guess he'll be developing them in Sioux Falls as opposed to Chicago, New York, LA or Lexington.

[BD80]

Dakari Johnson also reportedly declaring for some reason. (http://zagsblog.com/kentucky/kentuckys-dakari-johnson-will-declare-for-nba-draft/)


Kentucky sophomore center Dakari Johnson will declare for the NBA Draft, a source close to the situation told SNY.tv.

Kentucky has a press conference set for 2:30 p.m. on Thursday that “will include UK players who are ready to announce their NBA Draft decisions, as well as head coach John Calipari,” the school announced.

Cal isn't giving his kids much time to decide is he? Or each of them their "one shining moment?"

Sounds like he wants to be getting down to business.

Sure, others may not yet be "ready" to announce, but this at least will eliminate the need for the twins to go to classes.

[CDu]

Ulis, Booker and some top recruits should ube enough for a top ten team. If Booker leaves...

I think you may be overestimating either Booker or this year's recruiting class. I am not sure that Booker is anything special without all those bigs commanding attention. And I am not sure there is enough quality in the incoming class' bigs to make up for the loss.

Top-25? Sure. Top-10? Not sure I would go there.

[Duvall]

Per Woj, J.P. Tokoto to declare for the draft. (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/unc-s-jp-tokoto-to-declare-for-the-2015-nba-draft-130246490-nba.html)


North Carolina Tar Heels junior J.P. Tokoto will enter the 2015 NBA Draft, he told Yahoo Sports on Wednesday.

Tokoto, an All-ACC first-team defender for the Tar Heels, forgoes his final year of college eligibility with a clear knowledge of his standing among league executives.

Tokoto, 21, won’t initially sign with an agent, he said, which would give him the freedom to withdraw from the June draft prior to the April 26 early entry deadline. Even so, Tokoto’s intentions are to play in the NBA next season.

Weird.

[FerryFor50]

Cal isn't giving his kids much time to decide is he? Or each of them their "one shining moment?"

Sounds like he wants to be getting down to business.

Sure, others may not yet be "ready" to announce, but this at least will eliminate the need for the twins to go to classes.

Maybe he's pushing them out, hoping he's making room for Maker and others in the next crop.

Hopefully he pushes them out and doesn't get the recruits he thinks he'd be getting.

[dukelion]

Per Woj, J.P. Tokoto to declare for the draft. (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/unc-s-jp-tokoto-to-declare-for-the-2015-nba-draft-130246490-nba.html)



Weird.

Guess he doesn't want to fight for minutes with Jackson and Pinson. Dude would be a lottery pick if he had a jumpshot.

[FerryFor50]

Guess he doesn't want to fight for minutes with Jackson and Pinson. Dude would be a lottery pick if he had a jumpshot.

Or maybe he realizes he's not developing at UNC and is wasting his potential.


“I know I can be so much more, but I’m not sure that I’m pushed to be that much more [in college]." -J.P. Tokoto

And maybe he suspects the NCAA will come down hard on UNC.

[gam7]

Per Woj, J.P. Tokoto to declare for the draft. (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/unc-s-jp-tokoto-to-declare-for-the-2015-nba-draft-130246490-nba.html)



Weird.

His quotes at the end of that article seem like a pretty strong indictment of UNC's willingness to develop talent with an eye towards the next level... These quotes cannot go over well with top (i.e., less-than-4-year) recruits. Ahem, brandoningram, ahem.

“I feel like there can be a lot more to me as a player, more than just the defensive player who can occasionally dunk the ball,” Tokoto told Yahoo Sports. “I know I can be so much more, but I’m not sure that I’m pushed to be that much more [in college].

“I want to focus on my game, working with trainers and pro coaches over the summer and next year. I think that’ll give me the best chance to grow than staying school and being that player that fit into the mold of my first three years [at Carolina].”

[arnie]

Per Woj, J.P. Tokoto to declare for the draft. (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/unc-s-jp-tokoto-to-declare-for-the-2015-nba-draft-130246490-nba.html)



Weird.

Does that open up a spot for Ingram? Might be a positive for Heels.

[FerryFor50]

Does that open up a spot for Ingram? Might be a positive for Heels.

Personally I'd take a year or two of junior Tokoto over freshman skinny Ingram (who might leave after a year).

[Duvall]

Personally I'd take a year or two of junior Tokoto over freshman skinny Ingram (who might leave after a year).

Tokoto's a junior, so one year. But yeah, it's not clear that there are many players in this class that will be worth more next year than "a defensive player than can occasionally dunk the ball." Tokoto may not like that role, but it's one with some value.

[dukelion]

His quotes at the end of that article seem like a pretty strong indictment of UNC's willingness to develop talent with an eye towards the next level... These quotes cannot go over well with top (i.e., less-than-4-year) recruits. Ahem, brandoningram, ahem.

“I feel like there can be a lot more to me as a player, more than just the defensive player who can occasionally dunk the ball,” Tokoto told Yahoo Sports. “I know I can be so much more, but I’m not sure that I’m pushed to be that much more [in college].

“I want to focus on my game, working with trainers and pro coaches over the summer and next year. I think that’ll give me the best chance to grow than staying school and being that player that fit into the mold of my first three years [at Carolina].”

Ouch.....those are strong words.

[dukelion]

Does that open up a spot for Ingram? Might be a positive for Heels.

Ingram would still be behind Jackson and Pinson.

At Duke I'd think he'd start or at least be the first wing off the bench.

[Newton_14]

Per Woj, J.P. Tokoto to declare for the draft. (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/unc-s-jp-tokoto-to-declare-for-the-2015-nba-draft-130246490-nba.html)



Weird.
Wow. Did not see that one coming at all. I thought the only risks were Paige, Brice Johnson, and Justin Jackson. Why on earth a kid like that would give up his Sr year is head scratching. Weird indeed.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Wow. Did not see that one coming at all. I thought the only risks were Paige, Brice Johnson, and Justin Jackson. Why on earth a kid like that would give up his Sr year is head scratching. Weird indeed.

Maybe they told him he'd have to start going to real classes.

[Newton_14]

His quotes at the end of that article seem like a pretty strong indictment of UNC's willingness to develop talent with an eye towards the next level... These quotes cannot go over well with top (i.e., less-than-4-year) recruits. Ahem, brandoningram, ahem.

“I feel like there can be a lot more to me as a player, more than just the defensive player who can occasionally dunk the ball,” Tokoto told Yahoo Sports. “I know I can be so much more, but I’m not sure that I’m pushed to be that much more [in college].

“I want to focus on my game, working with trainers and pro coaches over the summer and next year. I think that’ll give me the best chance to grow than staying school and being that player that fit into the mold of my first three years [at Carolina].”

Wow. In other words "Roy Williams and his staff did not develop me into the player I can become. They pigeon holed me into a role that benefitted them and not me"... I bet Ol Roy is not in the One Shining Morning spirit dadgummit! Those are very damning statements against Roy and his program. This almost warrants its own thread!

[Troublemaker]

Allows Berry to start. UNC just improved, probably.

[OldPhiKap]

Tokoto was a highly-rated prospect who the heel fans have hated on since he came. He is smart to leave. There must be a better atmosphere to develop.

Plus, the impending sanctions and all. Why would anyone invest the next few years at UNC with the uncertainty of sanctions?

We had four freshmen who won a natty. They have freshmen coming in who may have post-season bans and scholarship reductions. Smart money heads for the exits.

[FerryFor50]

Allows Berry to start. UNC just improved, probably.

Unless Roy keeps playing Britt over him.

[jimsumner]

The Tokoto comments are astounding. Feeling that way is one thing, expressing it that publicly is something else entirely.

I suspect every top-level prospect being recruited by Carolina has or soon will be receiving a text message with these quotes. They are toxic.

[KandG]

Allows Berry to start. UNC just improved, probably.

Agree with this. Fun to parse JP's quotes and feel like there's some trouble brewing with Roy and some of his players, but this is addition by subtraction for the Heels, and might make them even better.

[Henderson]

Does that open up a spot for Ingram? Might be a positive for Heels.

The spin on IC is that he must have heard something from the Brandon Ingram/Jaylen Brown camps. Pure speculation, of course.

But why in the world would any player want to leave Carolina right now? I get to reason number 7, then I'm stimied. It's always a decision based on NBA draft stock, isn't it?

[bob blue devil]

His quotes at the end of that article seem like a pretty strong indictment of UNC's willingness to develop talent with an eye towards the next level... These quotes cannot go over well with top (i.e., less-than-4-year) recruits. Ahem, brandoningram, ahem.

“I feel like there can be a lot more to me as a player, more than just the defensive player who can occasionally dunk the ball,” Tokoto told Yahoo Sports. “I know I can be so much more, but I’m not sure that I’m pushed to be that much more [in college].

“I want to focus on my game, working with trainers and pro coaches over the summer and next year. I think that’ll give me the best chance to grow than staying school and being that player that fit into the mold of my first three years [at Carolina].”

well comments like these will help him in the eyes of gm's who value cohesiveness/a team first attitude. good thing he's pretty secure in his spot in the draft. </end sarcasm>

i mean, who is advising this kid? just bite your tongue for a few weeks and everyone wins.

[SCMatt33]

Ingram would still be behind Jackson and Pinson.

At Duke I'd think he'd start or at least be the first wing off the bench.

I don't think he's necessarily behind Pinson, and I doubt that Ingram would assume he's behind Pinson, which is what really matters anyway in his decision. For better or worse, 18 year old kids have supreme confidence in themselves. The bigger issue is that Tokoto played at the 2 much of the time, though played some 3 when Britt or Berry was on the floor with Paige. I don't really see Ingram playing at the 2 like Tokoto, though there would be plenty of minutes for him as backing up Jackson and also playing when Jackson slides down to 4 at times. I can easily see Carolina finding 20 minutes per game for him if he earns them. This news doesn't
push him there or anything, but it helps them.

[Henderson]

Wasn't Tokoto heavily recruited by Duke? I seem to recall a visit at which he was serenaded at a game by calls to come to Duke.

[BD80]

His quotes at the end of that article seem like a pretty strong indictment of UNC's willingness to develop talent with an eye towards the next level... These quotes cannot go over well with top (i.e., less-than-4-year) recruits. Ahem, brandoningram, ahem.

“I feel like there can be a lot more to me as a player, more than just the defensive player who can occasionally dunk the ball,” Tokoto told Yahoo Sports. “I know I can be so much more, but I’m not sure that I’m pushed to be that much more [in college].

“I want to focus on my game, working with trainers and pro coaches over the summer and next year. I think that’ll give me the best chance to grow than staying school and being that player that fit into the mold of my first three years [at Carolina].”

Doesn't sound like a guy who is going to change his mind and come back.

This does NOT make unc any better by any stretch of the imagination. Tokoto was a guy who would do the effort things, and he was extremely athletic.

[Newton_14]

Wasn't Tokoto heavily recruited by Duke? I seem to recall a visit at which he was serenaded at a game by calls to come to Duke.

Early on yes. We were actually the first to offer him. However, his stock dropped quite a bit between the end of his Freshman season and the end of his Senior season and Duke backed away. The signs were there that he could not shoot and wasn't going to be the player people thought he was going to be early on. I believe it came down to UNC and Wisconsin.

[roywhite]

Doesn't sound like a guy who is going to change his mind and come back.

This does NOT make unc any better by any stretch of the imagination. Tokoto was a guy who would do the effort things, and he was extremely athletic.

He had a heckuva game in Durham:
15 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists, 0 turnovers, 2 blocks, and 3 steals

As noted by others, his statements are quite a slam at the coaching he got at UNC.

Can he improve his shooting?

[gumbomoop]

I believe it came down to UNC and Wisconsin.

Bingo. Here's a speculation.

(1) Berry coming on, will share PG with Britt, so Paige will play nearly exclusively at the 2. Pretty obvious from his comments that Tokoto has soured on his role in Roy's past and future starter and substitution plans.
(2) Ingram talk irritates JP. Whether or not Ingram comes to CH, Tokoto is fed up with noise about how much the Heels could use him, as they've already got -- well, had -- me, JP. The fawning over Ingram is irritating enough, but if by chance [ed: and bad choice] Ingram chooses CH, cuts further into JP's minutes.
(3) No problem mixing his metaphors, so he's reading the tea leaves blowin' in the wind and the writing on the wall, and realizes he won't start next season, instead relegated to backing up Jackson at the 3 and sharing backup to Paige with Pinson. And knowing Roy, Luke Maye will take some of JP's backup -- backup -- minutes to Jackson.
(4) Going to be the perfect 6th man, Roy tells him, but all Tokoto sees are fewer mpg. Maybe way fewer.
(5) On Wisconsin! JP's got buyer's remorse. Looks at Dekker, a fellow class of 2012 Wisconsin HS guy. Coulda been a contender if I'd listened to Bo. Coulda won the natty this season if I'd listened to Bo. Roy and his system are ruining me.

[OldPhiKap]

Early on yes. We were actually the first to offer him. However, his stock dropped quite a bit between the end of his Freshman season and the end of his Senior season and Duke backed away. The signs were there that he could not shoot and wasn't going to be the player people thought he was going to be early on. I believe it came down to UNC and Wisconsin.


Bingo. Here's a speculation.

(1) Berry coming on, will share PG with Britt, so Paige will play nearly exclusively at the 2. Pretty obvious from his comments that Tokoto has soured on his role in Roy's past and future starter and substitution plans.
(2) Ingram talk irritates JP. Whether or not Ingram comes to CH, Tokoto is fed up with noise about how much the Heels could use him, as they've already got -- well, had -- me, JP. The fawning over Ingram is irritating enough, but if by chance [ed: and bad choice] Ingram chooses CH, cuts further into JP's minutes.
(3) No problem mixing his metaphors, so he's reading the tea leaves blowin' in the wind and the writing on the wall, and realizes he won't start next season, instead relegated to backing up Jackson at the 3 and sharing backup to Paige with Pinson. And knowing Roy, Luke Maye will take some of JP's backup -- backup -- minutes to Jackson.
(4) Going to be the perfect 6th man, Roy tells him, but all Tokoto sees are fewer mpg. Maybe way fewer.
(5) On Wisconsin! JP's got buyer's remorse. Looks at Dekker, a fellow class of 2012 Wisconsin HS guy. Coulda been a contender if I'd listened to Bo. Coulda won the natty this season if I'd listened to Bo. Roy and his system are ruining me.

He could always finish his undergraduate degree this summer, and then play for Wisconsin as a grad student next year.

[coot]

He could always finish his undergraduate degree this summer, and then play for Wisconsin as a grad student next year.

But Bo Ryan doesn'"rent" 5th year players. :)

[CameronBornAndBred]

Wow. Did not see that one coming at all. I thought the only risks were Paige, Brice Johnson, and Justin Jackson. Why on earth a kid like that would give up his Sr year is head scratching. Weird indeed.
UNC is expected to be a heavy contender for the title next year, too. It's one thing to leave when your team has no prospects, but to walk away from a real chance at a ring says tons about his feelings about being in Roy's program.

[Duke95]

IC is interpreting this as a sign that Ingram and/or Brown will be at UNC next year.

[OldPhiKap]

"I don't give a @#$% about UNC" -- JP Tokoto

[Reilly]

He could always finish his undergraduate degree this summer ...

And at Chapel Hill that's apparently a viable option even if he hasn't earned a college credit yet.

[BD80]

He could always finish his undergraduate degree this summer, and then play for Wisconsin as a grad student next year.

That raises a rather existential question:

How many no-show classes can you not show up for at one time?

[jipops]

I see Tokoto leaving as addition by subtraction for the heels. They're still the heavy favorite for next season.

[Ichabod Drain]

I see Tokoto leaving as addition by subtraction for the heels. They're still the heavy favorite for next season.

Despite having three actual PG's on the team I believe Tokoto was their best distributor.

On another note, WCS of Kentucky is entering the draft. Dude bought a new corevette yesterday as well.

[dukelion]

Chad Ford saying that 7 seven Kentucky underclassmen will declare including Dakari Johnson.

Regardless of the incoming freshmen that's still quite a hit.

[arnie]

IC is interpreting this as a sign that Ingram and/or Brown will be at UNC next year.

I do think this impacts Ingram recruiting. Heels have had a lock eastern NC players. Only reason we got Brickey and Henderson is that Heels thought they had better players coming in. The Kinston connection with Stackhouse is also a concern. Of course don't listen to me since I knew Duke was toast Monday with 13 minutes to go.

[Duvall]

I see Tokoto leaving as addition by subtraction for the heels. They're still the heavy favorite for next season.

Favorite for what, exactly?

[David Bunkley]

Favorite for what, exactly?

Going to hell?

[Reilly]

That raises a rather existential question:

How many no-show classes can you not show up for at one time?

At Glenwood Elementary, they all go down in the book as a "tardy".

[Duke95]

Someone's trolling IC with the rumor that Meeks might jump to the NBA.

Haven't seen Meeks jump all year. Guy couldn't clear a credit card without tripping over the numbers.
Nice of him to wait until the post-season to do it.

[Henderson]

He could always finish his undergraduate degree this summer, and then play for Wisconsin as a grad student next year.


But Bo Ryan doesn'"rent" 5th year players. :)

I think that was OPK's subtle dig.

[sagegrouse]

UNC is expected to be a heavy contender for the title next year, too. It's one thing to leave when your team has no prospects, but to walk away from a real chance at a ring says tons about his feelings about being in Roy's program.


IC is interpreting this as a sign that Ingram and/or Brown will be at UNC next year.

I choose to interpret Tokoto's departure as a sign that he believes, "There is no way in hell that UNC will be allowed to compete for a championship next year -- or the year after."

Kindly, Sage
'I feel even more threatened these days, as I comprehend that politicians of both parties are hellbent on keeping us off the Endangered Species List. I mean, have they seen how small our leks have become and how many more golden eagles are hunting us?'

[Duvall]

I choose to interpret Tokoto's departure as a sign that he believes, "There is no way in hell that UNC will be allowed to compete for a championship next year -- or the year after."
'

That seems unlikely. Tokoto only has one more year, so the year after isn't as important for him, and the NCAA does not seem to be proceeding at a pace that would affect UNC's 2016 tournament eligibility.

[Henderson]

That seems unlikely. Tokoto only has one more year, so the year after isn't as important for him, and the NCAA does not seem to be proceeding at a pace that would affect UNC's 2016 tournament eligibility.

Agreed. To me it reads more like, "I'm not going to improve my pro potential by staying another year at UNC, so why should I? I may not go high (or at all), but it's not going to be better for me next year if I wait."

[Olympic Fan]

That seems unlikely. Tokoto only has one more year, so the year after isn't as important for him, and the NCAA does not seem to be proceeding at a pace that would affect UNC's 2016 tournament eligibility.

Agreed ... as I noted in another thread, UNC AD Bubba Cunningham told the Raleigh Sports Club last week that he expected to receive a Notice of Allegations within six months ...

UNC would then have another 8-9 months to respond, meaning that a final ruling could be more than a year away.

Pretty sure UNC is in the delay game, hoping to hold off any penalties until after next season.

I do think losing Tokoto is a big blow. He's their best defender. Obviously, they have Jackson and Pinson to play the small forward spot and both are better offensively, but Tokoto gives them a dimension those two guys can't match.

[OldPhiKap]

I do think losing Tokoto is a big blow. He's their best defender. Obviously, they have Jackson and Pinson to play the small forward spot and both are better offensively, but Tokoto gives them a dimension those two guys can't match.

I know that Carolina fans were on Tokoto for inconsistency, but he played two pretty darn good games against us. I don't see how him leaving helps UNC.

There seems to be a lot of shots hurled at Roy when players leave. Tokoto, the Wear twins, LD II, etc. I guess Roy's not in the "playing well with others" mood very often.

[Henderson]

Agreed ... as I noted in another thread, UNC AD Bubba Cunningham told the Raleigh Sports Club last week that he expected to receive a Notice of Allegations within six months ...

UNC would then have another 8-9 months to respond, meaning that a final ruling could be more than a year away.

Pretty sure UNC is in the delay game, hoping to hold off any penalties until after next season.



I agree with your last sentence, but it seems counterproductive for UNC-CH. Once the "Notice of Allegations" is issued, the cloud cover currently over their program becomes more dense. They'd be killing themselves on the recruiting trail by allowing that cloud to linger. Notice of Allegations > Investigation.

But because UNC-CH has eschewed so many opportunities to get this over with quickly, I can only assume they'll continue to take a self-destructive course of denial and delay.

I predict that when NCAA sanctions are handed down, folks will ask, "If that's where we are, couldn't we have gotten here years ago and put it all behind us by now?"

[Olympic Fan]

I agree with your last sentence, but it seems counterproductive for UNC-CH. Once the "Notice of Allegations" is issued, the cloud cover currently over their program becomes more dense. They'd be killing themselves on the recruiting trail by allowing that cloud to linger.

But because UNC-CH has eschewed so many opportunities to get this over with quickly, I can only assume they'll continue to take a self-destructive course of denial and delay.

Not to hijack the thread, but I think the delay game makes sense at this point. The penalties are going to kill them for a number of years. Why not try and get one more great season in before the deluge? As I read the evidence, it's not like the 2015-16 team is likely to have anything vacated.

Yes, the cloud hurts them, but what hurts almost as much is Roy's growing reputation as a guy who's hostile or destructive to one-and-done type players. The Tokoto remarks are only part of it. Holding Harrison Barnes back a year was noticed. James Michael McAdoo's drop from the lottery after his freshman year to nowhere after his junior year was also noticed by recruits. Roy has not had a one-and-done since Brandon Wright in 2007 ... I assure you that's noticed.

I'm sure that after the NCAA hammer falls, UNC will go out and land an aggressive new coach who will quickly restore them to greatness.

But for the foreseeable future, they're going to have this year's Sweet 16 and whatever they accomplish next year to keep them warm at night,.

[Lar77]

"I'm sure that after the NCAA hammer falls, UNC will go out and land an aggressive new coach who will quickly restore them to greatness."

Return of Doh?

[Duke95]

Not to hijack the thread, but I think the delay game makes sense at this point. The penalties are going to kill them for a number of years. Why not try and get one more great season in before the deluge? As I read the evidence, it's not like the 2015-16 team is likely to have anything vacated.

Yes, the cloud hurts them, but what hurts almost as much is Roy's growing reputation as a guy who's hostile or destructive to one-and-done type players. The Tokoto remarks are only part of it. Holding Harrison Barnes back a year was noticed. James Michael McAdoo's drop from the lottery after his freshman year to nowhere after his junior year was also noticed by recruits. Roy has not had a one-and-done since Brandon Wright in 2007 ... I assure you that's noticed.

I'm sure that after the NCAA hammer falls, UNC will go out and land an aggressive new coach who will quickly restore them to greatness.

But for the foreseeable future, they're going to have this year's Sweet 16 and whatever they accomplish next year to keep them warm at night,.

True, good point, but I think some of their current players might be seeing the writing on the wall. Tokoto is gone. Meeks may follow, meaning armpits will be shuddering in fear in the D-league next year.
I doubt they'll lose anyone else though. Most would benefit from another year, even in UNC's system.

[devildeac]

He had a heckuva game in Durham:
15 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists, 0 turnovers, 2 blocks, and 3 steals

As noted by others, his statements are quite a slam at the coaching he got at UNC.

Can he improve his shooting?


I know that Carolina fans were on Tokoto for inconsistency, but he played two pretty darn good games against us. I don't see how him leaving helps UNC.

There seems to be a lot of shots hurled at Roy when players leave. Tokoto, the Wear twins, LD II, etc. I guess Roy's not in the "playing well with others" mood very often.

Shooting? Shots?

I'm shocked no one has included PJ in this conversation:rolleyes:;).

[Troublemaker]

I'm sure that after the NCAA hammer falls, UNC will go out and land an aggressive new coach who will quickly restore them to greatness.

This is why I was happy Shaka left for Texas where he'll have resources and a fertile recruiting base. Didn't want him still at VCU when UNC goes on their coaching search.

Question, though. Are you thinking Roy will retire when the hammer drops? Or UNC forces him out? I think if it were up to him, he seems like someone who might want to stick it out until all sanctions are done with in order to hand off a clean slate to the next coach. Kind of like what Boeheim is doing at Syracuse.

[COYS]

Yes, the cloud hurts them, but what hurts almost as much is Roy's growing reputation as a guy who's hostile or destructive to one-and-done type players. The Tokoto remarks are only part of it. Holding Harrison Barnes back a year was noticed. James Michael McAdoo's drop from the lottery after his freshman year to nowhere after his junior year was also noticed by recruits. Roy has not had a one-and-done since Brandon Wright in 2007 ... I assure you that's noticed.



OF, I think you can take an even stronger stance with Roy's lack of success with highly touted players turning into lottery picks. Ed Davis came back fell to 13th after being projected as a top 10 pick. He did suffer an injury during the season, but he showed no real improvement and was part of what became a completely disastrous season for the Heels . . . like Haitian Earthquake disastrous.

The two years with Harrison Barnes featured a lot of top-shelf recruits, but on an individual level, none of them actually reached expectations. In the case of Barnes, I think the expectations were always too high (Kobe?!?!?), but that was partially Barnes' own fault. You could argue that Kendall Marshall is an exception to this. He excelled at UNC and went higher in the draft than people thought he would coming out of high school. However, even this comes with an asterisk. Roy kept Marshall on the bench behind the clearly inferior Larry Drew, II for much of Marshall's freshman season. So even when Roy had a player who was talented enough to star right away, he held him back.

PJ Hairston's tenure was a disaster, too, with his stock falling, though some of that was his own fault (or was it loss of institutional control).

Finally, Roy spent a while trying to make square pegs fit into round holes. Henson the small forward, Barnes the shooting guard (for a time), Tokoto the shooting guard . . . This season in particular was one where the team would probably have benefited from going smaller and faster so that guys like Tokoto could use their athleticism against opposing 4's, which would allow them to showcase their ability.

Despite the rivalry, I always believed that Roy was a really good coach and not just a good recruiter. He won with many different type of teams at Kansas. 2010 seemed like a random blip. The far stronger teams of 2011 and 2012 seemed to indicate that UNC was on its way back to being a perennial title contender. However, I'm not sure if I still believe that, anymore. While K has continued to adapt and evolve, Roy seems even more intent on playing one style and one style only, no matter if his players fit into their roles or not. Granted, if you're a fast point guard trying to pick a college, UNC would understandably be high on your list, as that sees to be the one type of player Roy knows what to do with. Otherwise, I'd be worried.

I'm now going to knock on wood just in case I jinxed us and UNC actually does excel next season.

[Henderson]

This is why I was happy Shaka left for Texas where he'll have resources and a fertile recruiting base. Didn't want him still at VCU when UNC goes on their coaching search.

Question, though. Are you thinking Roy will retire when the hammer drops? Or UNC forces him out? I think if it were up to him, he seems like someone who might want to stick it out until all sanctions are done with in order to hand off a clean slate to the next coach. Kind of like what Boeheim is doing at Syracuse.

I have trouble seeing either UNC-CH forcing Roy out or Roy resigning under a cloud. In an unfortunate way, the NCAA investigation may prolong Roy's career. I can imagine him thinking, "I'd like to retire, but I'll be dadgummed if I'll retire now."

I can also imagine him thinking, "If we can just go out on a high note in 2016, that'll be the point, so let's get there." And (to bring it back to the thread), that's where the departures impact his plan, for better or worse.

[Kedsy]

Wonde if UK is looking at a down year next year. No Towns, Cauley-Stein, Harrisons, or Johnson. Returning players include Poythress, Ulis, Lee, and Booker (maybe?), plus some of the upper recruits in a very blah incoming class. I am sure they will fare well in the SEC, but on a national stage?

Back to Kentucky. What about Lyles? I suppose he's one of the seven, but I haven't heard his name like I've heard the names above.

[COYS]

I can also imagine him thinking, "If we can just go out on a high note in 2016, that'll be the point, so let's get there." And (to bring it back to the thread), that's where the departures impact his plan, for better or worse.

I can't help but think this might be UNC's (or at least Roy's) ultimate goal at this point. The team is supposed to be really good next year. If they can avoid the hammer for one more season, they might be able to climb back to the top of the mountain and then coast through the sanction years on the good will of another title.

Edit - Given the uncertainty of winning the title in any year, this seems like quite the Hail Mary and, even if successful, will probably hurt the program in the long term. If UNC fans had known how disappointing the past few seasons were going to be two years ago, they might have decided to go ahead and take their medicine.

[flyingdutchdevil]

OF, I think you can take an even stronger stance with Roy's lack of success with highly touted players turning into lottery picks. Ed Davis came back fell to 13th after being projected as a top 10 pick. He did suffer an injury during the season, but he showed no real improvement and was part of what became a completely disastrous season for the Heels . . . like Haitian Earthquake disastrous.

The two years with Harrison Barnes featured a lot of top-shelf recruits, but on an individual level, none of them actually reached expectations. In the case of Barnes, I think the expectations were always too high (Kobe?!?!?), but that was partially Barnes' own fault. You could argue that Kendall Marshall is an exception to this. He excelled at UNC and went higher in the draft than people thought he would coming out of high school. However, even this comes with an asterisk. Roy kept Marshall on the bench behind the clearly inferior Larry Drew, II for much of Marshall's freshman season. So even when Roy had a player who was talented enough to star right away, he held him back.

PJ Hairston's tenure was a disaster, too, with his stock falling, though some of that was his own fault (or was it loss of institutional control).

Finally, Roy spent a while trying to make square pegs fit into round holes. Henson the small forward, Barnes the shooting guard (for a time), Tokoto the shooting guard . . . This season in particular was one where the team would probably have benefited from going smaller and faster so that guys like Tokoto could use their athleticism against opposing 4's, which would allow them to showcase their ability.

Despite the rivalry, I always believed that Roy was a really good coach and not just a good recruiter. He won with many different type of teams at Kansas. 2010 seemed like a random blip. The far stronger teams of 2011 and 2012 seemed to indicate that UNC was on its way back to being a perennial title contender. However, I'm not sure if I still believe that, anymore. While K has continued to adapt and evolve, Roy seems even more intent on playing one style and one style only, no matter if his players fit into their roles or not. Granted, if you're a fast point guard trying to pick a college, UNC would understandably be high on your list, as that sees to be the one type of player Roy knows what to do with. Otherwise, I'd be worried.

I'm now going to knock on wood just in case I jinxed us and UNC actually does excel next season.

I agree that this happens more often than not at UNC, but it happens at every school, including Duke. In the last 10 years, but has had at least two players who came in with lottery hopes only to fizzle out. One became a 2nd round pick after he didn't hit expectations as a sophomore (McBob). The other work his way back into the first round after underwhelming freshman and sophomore seasons (MP2). Kyle Singler is another example of a player who absolutely should have gone pro after his junior year where he would have been guaranteed a first round pick. Unfortunately, his stock dropped in his last year. Fortunately, he's talented enough to make a very solid career in the NBA.

With these kids, there are so many factors that go into your draft pick: potential, performance, coachability, attitude, etc. etc. Coach K and RoyWill only have so much influence over these factors. But, I think we can both agree that Coach K does more for his players' development than RoyWill, which inevitably factors into their draft pick.

[COYS]

I agree that this happens more often than not at UNC, but it happens at every school, including Duke. In the last 10 years, but has had at least two players who came in with lottery hopes only to fizzle out. One became a 2nd round pick after he didn't hit expectations as a sophomore (McBob). The other work his way back into the first round after underwhelming freshman and sophomore seasons (MP2). Kyle Singler is another example of a player who absolutely should have gone pro after his junior year where he would have been guaranteed a first round pick. Unfortunately, his stock dropped in his last year. Fortunately, he's talented enough to make a very solid career in the NBA.

With these kids, there are so many factors that go into your draft pick: potential, performance, coachability, attitude, etc. etc. Coach K and RoyWill only have so much influence over these factors. But, I think we can both agree that Coach K does more for his players' development than RoyWill, which inevitably factors into their draft pick.

I definitely agree with you, here. Luck plays an important role. For every Jabari, Jahlil, and even Kyrie, we've had guys like Mason, Austin, or McRoberts who either didn't live up to the hype or stayed far longer than expected. That being said, Roy has really had some bad luck, recently. It's enough for me to question how he utilizes the talent on hand.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I definitely agree with you, here. Luck plays an important role. For every Jabari, Jahlil, and even Kyrie, we've had guys like Mason, Austin, or McRoberts who either didn't live up to the hype or stayed far longer than expected. That being said, Roy has really had some bad luck, recently. It's enough for me to question how he utilizes the talent on hand.

Absolutely. And when you see "bad luck" happening over and over item, it ceases being bad luck" and starts becoming a pattern. RoyWill has not developed lottery players well at all.

[Olympic Fan]

Absolutely. And when you see "bad luck" happening over and over item, it ceases being bad luck" and starts becoming a pattern. RoyWill has not developed lottery players well at all.

My point, whether true of not (and I DO think it's true) is that the perception that Roy doesn't develop or encourage one-and-dones is out there on the AAU circuit, the recruiting trail, and is having an impact on his recruiting success.

K has had his disappointments too, but when balanced against the success of Kyrie, Austin (I know he's a flop in the NBA, but he was drafted high) Jabari and the three freshmen this year, K is seen as a prime developer of one-and-done talent.

[Matches]

I agree that this happens more often than not at UNC, but it happens at every school, including Duke. In the last 10 years, but has had at least two players who came in with lottery hopes only to fizzle out. One became a 2nd round pick after he didn't hit expectations as a sophomore (McBob). The other work his way back into the first round after underwhelming freshman and sophomore seasons (MP2). Kyle Singler is another example of a player who absolutely should have gone pro after his junior year where he would have been guaranteed a first round pick. Unfortunately, his stock dropped in his last year. Fortunately, he's talented enough to make a very solid career in the NBA.



Every top-shelf school has stories like that. Roy got a lot of them bunched close together in time, and he made several public statements that made him sound really out of touch with the NBA. I'm thinking specifically of the "NBA teams only want players from Final Four teams" comment.

There was a time when K was perceived as out-of-touch and/or hostile to OAD-type players too. His Olympic connections have helped a lot with that. Also: it cannot be overstated how important Kyrie Irving was as a Duke recruit. He completely flipped the script overnight.

[gumbomoop]

Not to hijack the thread, but I think the delay game makes sense at this point. The penalties are going to kill them for a number of years. Why not try and get one more great season in before the deluge? As I read the evidence, it's not like the 2015-16 team is likely to have anything vacated.

But for the foreseeable future, they're going to have this year's Sweet 16 and whatever they accomplish next year to keep them warm at night.

This strikes me as the most plausible prediction, especially if Roy et al think the penalties will be short-intermediate-term killer (2-4 years?).

I can't, however, see that 2015's Sweet 16 will be remembered for anything other than Roy's usual flow-interrupting sub patterns and the hard fact that blowing a 7-point lead in the last 10 minutes v. Wisconsin in the Sweet 16 is ultra-galling, when contrasted to Duke's -- that's Duke -- overcoming a 9-point deficit to win #5. Only warmth from 2015 comes from tumbling toward Hell. Uncomfortable, opposite of comforting.

A whole lot rides on the 2016 NCAAT. Hell, yes, delay. Probably will turn out, long-term, to have been a disastrous decision to employ deny/deflect/delay from the beginning. But, too late now, in for a penny, in for a pounding.

After 2016 NCAAT. Going to need a replacement banner, possibly. Keep the Helms, too.

[COYS]

K has had his disappointments too, but when balanced against the success of Kyrie, Austin (I know he's a flop in the NBA, but he was drafted high) Jabari and the three freshmen this year, K is seen as a prime developer of one-and-done talent.

In a funny way, Duke's championship this year means that it's actually hard for recruits to really think that Calipari is any more capable of showcasing freshman for the NBA draft than Coach K, even if it's not K's sales pitch. The 2012 Cats were impressive, but, as was mentioned, Duke's quartet of freshman actually scored more points in the title game this season. K has also remade his offense around Kyrie, Austin, Jabari, and Jahlil in each of their single seasons at Duke (assuming Jahlil does in fact declare). I'm not saying the programs are similar or that the coach's approaches are equivalent, but strictly in terms of putting OAD talent on a stage to succeed, Duke and UK are both (currently) at the top of the pedestal.

[Henderson]

In a funny way, Duke's championship this year means that it's actually hard for recruits to really think that Calipari is any more capable of showcasing freshman for the NBA draft than Coach K, even if it's not K's sales pitch. The 2012 Cats were impressive, but, as was mentioned, Duke's quartet of freshman actually scored more points in the title game this season. K has also remade his offense around Kyrie, Austin, Jabari, and Jahlil in each of their single seasons at Duke (assuming Jahlil does in fact declare). I'm not saying the programs are similar or that the coach's approaches are equivalent, but strictly in terms of putting OAD talent on a stage to succeed, Duke and UK are both (currently) at the top of the pedestal.

Really good point. I hope recruits view it that way too, and there are signs they do.

Calipari has a lot at stake on "I'll get you to the NBA better than anyone else." He's not offering much more than that to recruits. If he loses that as an advantage, and can't compete on the other factors, he's got a problem.

That said, Duke and Kentucky don't always compete for the same players. So Cal can always get those studs that Duke (for whatever reason) doesn't recruit. And vice versa I suppose.

[Duvall]

Seven with one blow: Karl-Anthony Towns, Willie Cauley-Stein, Devin Booker, Trey Lyles, Dakari Johnson, Aaron Harrison and Andrew Harrison all declaring for the NBA/NDBL Draft. (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25142198/seven-kentucky-players-announce-theyre-entering-2015-nba-draft)

Apparently dreams are being chased.

[ncexnyc]

Bingo. Here's a speculation.

(1) Berry coming on, will share PG with Britt, so Paige will play nearly exclusively at the 2. Pretty obvious from his comments that Tokoto has soured on his role in Roy's past and future starter and substitution plans.
(2) Ingram talk irritates JP. Whether or not Ingram comes to CH, Tokoto is fed up with noise about how much the Heels could use him, as they've already got -- well, had -- me, JP. The fawning over Ingram is irritating enough, but if by chance [ed: and bad choice] Ingram chooses CH, cuts further into JP's minutes.
(3) No problem mixing his metaphors, so he's reading the tea leaves blowin' in the wind and the writing on the wall, and realizes he won't start next season, instead relegated to backing up Jackson at the 3 and sharing backup to Paige with Pinson. And knowing Roy, Luke Maye will take some of JP's backup -- backup -- minutes to Jackson.
(4) Going to be the perfect 6th man, Roy tells him, but all Tokoto sees are fewer mpg. Maybe way fewer.
(5) On Wisconsin! JP's got buyer's remorse. Looks at Dekker, a fellow class of 2012 Wisconsin HS guy. Coulda been a contender if I'd listened to Bo. Coulda won the natty this season if I'd listened to Bo. Roy and his system are ruining me.
I agree with your take on this matter.
The heels have had a solid frontcourt the past few years, but we all know their problem has been outside shooting. With Jackson coming on strong at the end of the season that appears to push JPT further down the bench. Since Pinson is viewed as a better shooter and just as physically gifted as JPT, well that's even more reason for the kid to think his minutes will be few and far between.
Was over at IC last night as they are still providing loads of fun with their Duke bashing and they were talking about Allen and how they wished JPT had the same kind of motor. They ran a photo of Roy screaming at JPT, all up in his face. Hmmm, wonder if being Roy's whipping boy had anything to do with this decision.

[MChambers]

"I'm sure that after the NCAA hammer falls, UNC will go out and land an aggressive new coach who will quickly restore them to greatness."

Return of Doh?

We can dream, can't we?

[SCMatt33]

Seven with one blow: Karl-Anthony Towns, Willie Cauley-Stein, Devin Booker, Trey Lyles, Dakari Johnson, Aaron Harrison and Andrew Harrison all declaring for the NBA/NDBL Draft. (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25142198/seven-kentucky-players-announce-theyre-entering-2015-nba-draft)

Apparently dreams are being chased.

Someone can correct me if I'm forgetting someone, but this should make Poythress the first player to stay 4 years under Calipari (not counting guys like Jon Hood who were recruited to ride the bench). The last 4 year senior I can remember for them was Darius Miller, who was originally a Billy Gillespie recruit.

[rifraf]

Someone can correct me if I'm forgetting someone, but this should make Poythress the first player to stay 4 years under Calipari (not counting guys like Jon Hood who were recruited to ride the bench). The last 4 year senior I can remember for them was Darius Miller, who was originally a Billy Gillespie recruit.

I believe Poythress is going to "go home and talk to his family". Transfer?

[Henderson]

Seven with one blow: Karl-Anthony Towns, Willie Cauley-Stein, Devin Booker, Trey Lyles, Dakari Johnson, Aaron Harrison and Andrew Harrison all declaring for the NBA/NDBL Draft. (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25142198/seven-kentucky-players-announce-theyre-entering-2015-nba-draft)

Apparently dreams are being chased.

Opens a lot of space for the remaining undecideds with Kentucky on their list. Skal must be feeling pretty good about his commit right about now.

[Troublemaker]

Seven with one blow: Karl-Anthony Towns, Willie Cauley-Stein, Devin Booker, Trey Lyles, Dakari Johnson, Aaron Harrison and Andrew Harrison all declaring for the NBA/NDBL Draft. (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25142198/seven-kentucky-players-announce-theyre-entering-2015-nba-draft)

Apparently dreams are being chased.

Excellent. Hopefully they won't be able to re-load well enough to win the Champions Classic game with Duke next season. (Apparently Skal Labissiere has been the best player for the World team in the Nike Hoop Summit practices, though.)

The Calipari era at UK really hasn't been bad for Duke.

Duke has 2 national championships to UK's 1 since he started.

Duke is 1-0 head-to-head against them since he started.

Finally, Duke has not lost a recruiting battle to him yet. Or (warning! classic homer line approaching!) at least not for a player Duke really, really wanted. I would not characterize Marcus Lee as being such a player, for example.

[Olympic Fan]

Someone can correct me if I'm forgetting someone, but this should make Poythress the first player to stay 4 years under Calipari (not counting guys like Jon Hood who were recruited to ride the bench). The last 4 year senior I can remember for them was Darius Miller, who was originally a Billy Gillespie recruit.

After watching the Kentucky press conference on ESPN, Andy Katz commented that Poythress is expected back, but that Calipari will still meet with the kid and his parents, so it's possible he'll go (although most likely he returns). Katz also said there's a chance Marcus Lee could go.

Kentucky is a lot like Duke in that what happens this spring will determine if they are going to be a top 5, top 10 or unranked team next year.

The core is Ulis at the point (I like him) and probably Poythress (coming off an injury) and Lee.

Add to that the three players Cal already has signed -- 6-10, 210 pound Skal LaBassierre -- the top rated center in the class; 6-3 Isaiah Briscoe, the top rated point guard in the class and Charles Matthew, a top 50 four-star shooting guard.

ESPN rates that as the No. 1 class in the country, but it's No. 1 in a weak overall year ... and it's not all that impressive (for a Kentucky) -- the No. 3, the No. 13 and No. 42 rated prospect.

That's six players (assuming both Poythress and Lee return). There's also a rising junior guard named Hawkins and a rising junior forward named Willis who never play.

I'd look at that lineup and I don't see a top 10 team.

But Cal is still on the recruiting trail and he's in line for a number of uncommitted top 20 prospects. I think the one they need the most is Malik Newman, the No. 4 player and No. 1 shooting guard on ESPN's list. Kansas seems to be the biggest competition. Brandon Ingram, a kid Duke wants, is also in the picture, as is Jaylen Brown, the No. 2 player on ESPN's list and the top small forward, Again, Kansas is the biggest threat there, although there's intriguing talk that Ivan Rabb (the No. 6 player, a PF from Oakland, is trying to put together a package of players -- including Brown and Duke target Caleb Swanigan -- to go together to Cal.

As I said, I don't see a top 10 team at Kentucky at the moment ... but until the top kids still out there make up their minds, we'd better wait and see.

[SCMatt33]

I believe Poythress is going to "go home and talk to his family". Transfer?

I can't see him transferring. Besides the fact that it's hard to transfer while injured like that, he will still likely have major minutes waiting for him when he's healthy. Though it should be mentioned that he could probably get a medical redshirt for this year if he wants it, potentially giving him two more seasons of eligibility at UK.

[FerryFor50]

After watching the Kentucky press conference on ESPN, Andy Katz commented that Poythress is expected back, but that Calipari will still meet with the kid and his parents, so it's possible he'll go (although most likely he returns). Katz also said there's a chance Marcus Lee could go.

Kentucky is a lot like Duke in that what happens this spring will determine if they are going to be a top 5, top 10 or unranked team next year.

The core is Ulis at the point (I like him) and probably Poythress (coming off an injury) and Lee.

Add to that the three players Cal already has signed -- 6-10, 210 pound Skal LaBassierre -- the top rated center in the class; 6-3 Isaiah Briscoe, the top rated point guard in the class and Charles Matthew, a top 50 four-star shooting guard.

ESPN rates that as the No. 1 class in the country, but it's No. 1 in a weak overall year ... and it's not all that impressive (for a Kentucky) -- the No. 3, the No. 13 and No. 42 rated prospect.

That's six players (assuming both Poythress and Lee return). There's also a rising junior guard named Hawkins and a rising junior forward named Willis who never play.

I'd look at that lineup and I don't see a top 10 team.

But Cal is still on the recruiting trail and he's in line for a number of uncommitted top 20 prospects. I think the one they need the most is Malik Newman, the No. 4 player and No. 1 shooting guard on ESPN's list. Kansas seems to be the biggest competition. Brandon Ingram, a kid Duke wants, is also in the picture, as is Jaylen Brown, the No. 2 player on ESPN's list and the top small forward, Again, Kansas is the biggest threat there, although there's intriguing talk that Ivan Rabb (the No. 6 player, a PF from Oakland, is trying to put together a package of players -- including Brown and Duke target Caleb Swanigan -- to go together to Cal.

As I said, I don't see a top 10 team at Kentucky at the moment ... but until the top kids still out there make up their minds, we'd better wait and see.

I think Kentucky gets Jaylen Brown, Stephen Zimmerman and Malik Newman.

I think Rabb ends up at Arizona, but possibly Cal with Swanigan.

I think Duke gets Ingram.

[Henderson]

I think Kentucky gets Jaylen Brown, Stephen Zimmerman and Malik Newman.

I think Rabb ends up at Arizona, but possibly Cal with Swanigan.

I think Duke gets Ingram.

Would Zimmerman want to go to Kentucky with Labissiere already committed?

[FerryFor50]

Would Zimmerman want to go to Kentucky with Labissiere already committed?

Depends on if they both play the 5 or one wants to extend out to be a stretch 4.

It's not like both couldn't see playing time.

[wsb3]

Seven with one blow: Karl-Anthony Towns, Willie Cauley-Stein, Devin Booker, Trey Lyles, Dakari Johnson, Aaron Harrison and Andrew Harrison all declaring for the NBA/NDBL Draft. (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25142198/seven-kentucky-players-announce-theyre-entering-2015-nba-draft)

Apparently dreams are being chased.

The greatest day in Kentucky Basketball History...:D

[Henderson]

Depends on if they both play the 5 or one wants to extend out to be a stretch 4.

It's not like both couldn't see playing time.

Absolutely valid. But both Labisierre and Zimmerman have been interior post players (centers) in HS. Converting one of them to a stretch 4 would mean someone has to adjust. And it's not crazy in either instance, because either's best professional future could be as a stretch 4.

It's just not where they have been. So from Zimmerman's point of view, I see a guy with similar size and natural position as Skal and ask, "Is this best for me, or are there others?"

The one thing that makes me think Zim might go to UK is this: You don't need 30 minutes per game to be OAD if you are already ready for the NBA and just biding time.

[Merlindevildog91]

The greatest day in Kentucky Basketball History...:D

Well, what did you expect from all those Kentucky stars after they went undefeated this year and won the National Championship?

Oh, wait....

[flyingdutchdevil]

Absolutely valid. But both Labisierre and Zimmerman have been interior post players (centers) in HS. Converting one of them to a stretch 4 would mean someone has to adjust. And it's not crazy in either instance, because either's best professional future could be as a stretch 4.

It's just not where they have been. So from Zimmerman's point of view, I see a guy with similar size and natural position as Skal and ask, "Is this best for me, or are there others?"

The one thing that makes me think Zim might go to UK is this: You don't need 30 minutes per game to be OAD if you are already ready for the NBA and just biding time.

Cal will absolutely sell anything to get a recruit. Just like Poythress, who should only have been playing the 4 college, but ended up having a disastrous freshman year at the 3 (where he wanted to play).

Unfortunately, Ulis didn't go pro. That kid is going to make UK good. He's a really good guard - similar to Tyus - and will be the leader from Day 1.

[FerryFor50]

The one thing that makes me think Zim might go to UK is this: You don't need 30 minutes per game to be OAD if you are already ready for the NBA and just biding time.

Yep. See: Lyles, Trey

They really didn't use him to his abilities this season, IMO. But he's still likely going in the first round.

[Henderson]

Cal will absolutely sell anything to get a recruit.

I wonder what Cal would say to a prized recruit if the guy said, "My dream is to be an assistant coach at Duke. Can you get me there?"

Talk about a Sophie's Choice!

[Saratoga2]

Why would Cal hold a press conference for his guys when all 7 decided to declare for the draft? Is that a ploy for him to use in his recruiting pitch. Look, viturally my whole team is declaring for the draft. I guess he expects to reload and beat up on the SEC again and be lauded by the press for doing it.

[Troublemaker]

Why would Cal hold a press conference for his guys when all 7 decided to declare for the draft? Is that a ploy for him to use in his recruiting pitch. Look, viturally my whole team is declaring for the draft. I guess he expects to reload and beat up on the SEC again and be lauded by the press for doing it.

A press conference is pretty common for these types of announcements. Duke might end up having one, too.

[NSDukeFan]

The greatest day in Kentucky Basketball History...:D
Almost..They all have to get drafted first. IThen, it could be the greatest day in UK basketball history

Well, what did you expect from all those Kentucky stars after they went undefeated this year and won the National Championship?

Oh, wait....

Not nearly as important as the number of players getting drafted. Championships, shmampionships, unless they're recruiting championships.

[FerryFor50]

Not nearly as important as the number of players getting drafted. Championships, shmampionships, unless they're recruiting championships.

Aside from that very important and relevant point... It's hard to call out a team that went 38-1 and lost to one of the top teams in the country in the final 4. That was a TREMENDOUS season for UK and if I'm a recruit, I'd totally want to be a part of that.

I mean, it's not like Duke didn't just have a year where they lost in the first round to a 15 seed.... Yet they still picked up Jah, Tyus, Winslow and Allen the very next season.

[FerryFor50]

Gary Parrish reporting on Twitter that Dekker is gone.

Stinkin' rent a players.

https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/586553057846099968

[Duvall]

Gary Parrish reporting on Twitter that Dekker is gone.

Stinkin' rent a players.

https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/586553057846099968

Dekker comments. (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/story/_/id/12661406/wisconsin-badgers-junior-sam-dekker-entering-draft-boosting-stock-ncaa-tournament)


"Obviously, it's a tough decision because we've had so much success as a team and we're such good friends," Dekker told ESPN. "I love the school and am so grateful for everything, but I think this is the right decision for me as a player and as a person. I'm ready for the next step."

[NSDukeFan]

Aside from that very important and relevant point... It's hard to call out a team that went 38-1 and lost to one of the top teams in the country in the final 4. That was a TREMENDOUS season for UK and if I'm a recruit, I'd totally want to be a part of that.

I mean, it's not like Duke didn't just have a year where they lost in the first round to a 15 seed.... Yet they still picked up Jah, Tyus, Winslow and Allen the very next season.

It may be hard to call out the players who accomplished that outstanding season, but I quite enjoy calling out coach Cal at every opportunity. After the arrogant "we're good" quote at half-time of the Notre Dame game and his general arrogance (I do find him very entertaining and expect I would enjoy speaking with him), I am happy to make fun of the fact that Duke did better in the tournament than they did after also winning the recruiting championship over UK for the first time in many years.

[FerryFor50]

It may be hard to call out the players who accomplished that outstanding season, but I quite enjoy calling out coach Cal at every opportunity. After the arrogant "we're good" quote at half-time of the Notre Dame game and his general arrogance (I do find him very entertaining and expect I would enjoy speaking with him), I am happy to make fun of the fact that Duke did better in the tournament than they did after also winning the recruiting championship over UK for the first time in many years.

Oh, I'm with you regarding Cal.

But it's hard to make fun of a team that went 38-1 and lost in the final four. Was way better when they only went to the NIT and lost to Robert Morris. ;)

[tux]

It may be hard to call out the players who accomplished that outstanding season, but I quite enjoy calling out coach Cal at every opportunity. After the arrogant "we're good" quote at half-time of the Notre Dame game and his general arrogance (I do find him very entertaining and expect I would enjoy speaking with him), I am happy to make fun of the fact that Duke did better in the tournament than they did after also winning the recruiting championship over UK for the first time in many years.

Not to mention Cal's rather bizarre sideline demeanor down the stretch in both the ND and Wisconsin games. He looked a bit panicked to me.

[NSDukeFan]

Oh, I'm with you regarding Cal.

But it's hard to make fun of a team that went 38-1 and lost in the final four. Was way better when they only went to the NIT and lost to Robert Morris. ;)

Hopefully, With all the defections, that one man team Robert Morris will get another shot at them in the NIT, or maybe Oral Roberts?

[FerryFor50]

Hopefully, With all the defections, that one man team Robert Morris will get another shot at them in the NIT, or maybe Oral Roberts?

I'm hoping Grand Canyon State gets another shot at them. :cool:

[Olympic Fan]

ESPN is reporting that Kansas guard Wayne Selden is passing up the draft and staying in school.

[jimsumner]

Aside from that very important and relevant point... It's hard to call out a team that went 38-1 and lost to one of the top teams in the country in the final 4. That was a TREMENDOUS season for UK and if I'm a recruit, I'd totally want to be a part of that.

I mean, it's not like Duke didn't just have a year where they lost in the first round to a 15 seed.... Yet they still picked up Jah, Tyus, Winslow and Allen the very next season.

Except that these guys signed with Duke in November, 2013, four months before Duke lost to Mercer.

[duke09hms]

Except that these guys signed with Duke in November, 2013, four months before Duke lost to Mercer.

Think he's referring to the 2 seed upset loss to Lehigh in 2012. Although there was an EE run sandwiched in there before they committed.

[FerryFor50]

Think he's referring to the 2 seed upset loss to Lehigh in 2012. Although there was an EE run sandwiched in there before they committed.

Either way, neither has really hurt recruiting much. :)

[Troublemaker]

Interesting.

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) · 8h8 hours ago (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/586625571477725186)

Virginia junior Justin Anderson leaning toward entering NBA Draft, sources tell Yahoo. Final decision soon. Strong candidate for 1st round.

[TruBlu]

Despite having three actual PG's on the team I believe Tokoto was their best distributor.

On another note, WCS of Kentucky is entering the draft. Dude bought a new corevette yesterday as well.

Proof that Kentucky runs a cleaner program than unc. Kentucky players have to wait until declaring for the draft before getting their great ride. unc players get free rental cars to drive to no show classes (and probably get their "chicks for free", too).

[dukejim1]

Gary Parrish reporting on Twitter that Dekker is gone.

Stinkin' rent a players.

https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/586553057846099968

Bo doesn't rent players but he does like a good three year lease.

[gofurman]

Can anyone keep an updated list of those who have declared ,, and those (like Justin Anderson) who are heavily considering leaving?

[gofurman]

The only problem w Justin Anderson leaving is that makes unc the acc top dog in my opinion. W Anderson returning I would give an edge to UVA 1 and unc 2

[cspan37421]

On another note, WCS of Kentucky is entering the draft. Dude bought a new corevette yesterday as well.

That's a good trade-up from his previous ride, a Chrysler LeBaron previously owned by John Voight. ;)

[Newton_14]

Here's the latest list in alphabetical order. I will keep it updated between now and the final date to declare.


2015 NBA Early Entry


Cliff Alexander, 6-8, Fr., F (Kansas)


Brandon Ashley, 6-9. Jr., F (Arizona)


Devin Booker, 6-6, Fr., G (Kentucky)


Willie Cauley-Stein, 7-0, Jr., F (Kentucky)


Sam Dekker, 6-9, Jr., F (Wisconsin)


Michael Frazier, 6-4, Jr., G (Florida)


Montrezl Harrell, 6-8, Jr., F (Louisville)


Aaron Harrison, 6-5, Soph., G (Kentucky)


Andrew Harrison, 6-5, Soph., G (Kentucky)


Tyler Harvey, 6-4, Soph., G (Eastern Washington)


Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, 6-7, Soph., F (Arizona)


R.J. Hunter, 6-6, Jr., G (Georgia State)


Dakari Johnson, 6-11, Soph., C (Kentucky)


Kevon Looney, 6-10, Fr., F (UCLA)


Trey Lyles, 6-10, Fr., F (Kentucky)


Jarell Martin, 6-10, Soph., F (LSU)


Chris McCullough, 6-9, Fr., F (Syracuse)


Jordan Mickey, 6-8, Soph., F (LSU)


Jahlil Okafor, 6-11, Fr., C (Duke)


Kelly Oubre, 6-7, Fr., F (Kansas)


Cameron Payne, 6-2, Soph., G (Murray State)


Terran Petteway, 6-6, Jr., G (Nebraska)


Walter Pitchford, 6-10, Jr., F (Nebraska)


Terry Rozier, 6-1, Soph., G (Louisville)


Jherrod Stiggers, 6-6, Jr., G (Houston)


Aaron Thomas, 6-5, Jr., G (Florida State)


J.P. Tokoto, 6-6, Jr., G (North Carolina)


Karl-Anthony Towns, 7-0, Fy., F/C (Kentucky)


Myles Turner, 6-11, Fr., C/F (Texas)


Rashad Vaughn, 6-6, Fr., G (UNLV)

[tbyers11]

Thanks for the list Newton_14. I counted 27 and I'm sure there will be more. Including 3 players (Justise, DeAngelo Russell, and Stanley Johnson) who will very likely be top 10 picks.

[gofurman]

So Tokoto is gone for sure?

[OldPhiKap]

So Tokoto is gone for sure?

Last I heard, he has declared but not hired an agent. So he can come back. But after his statements -- he can't go back if you know what I mean.

[ncexnyc]

Be curious to see what international players are hot on the NBA's radar. Are there enough of them to push Tyus further down the draft board so he decides another year is in his best interest?

[Henderson]

Be curious to see what international players are hot on the NBA's radar. Are there enough of them to push Tyus further down the draft board so he decides another year is in his best interest?

I think the only two internationals ahead of him (Porzyngis and Hezonja) are known quantities and have already been factored into Tyus Jones' draft stock. I've not heard of any surprise internationals jumping in late over Tyus.

[ncexnyc]

I think the only two internationals ahead of him (Porzyngis and Hezonja) are known quantities and have already been factored into Tyus Jones' draft stock. I've not heard of any surprise internationals jumping in late over Tyus.
What happened to the kid that was supposed to play PG for SMU last season?

[Billy Dat]

What happened to the kid that was supposed to play PG for SMU last season?

Emmanuel Mudiay...he's projected as a top 5 pick after holding his own in China's pro league.

[Billy Dat]

Adrian Wojnarowski may know something before the early entrant himself even knows it:

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 21m21 minutes ago
Yahoo Sources: Virginia junior Justin Anderson plans to enter the 2015 NBA Draft. http://yhoo.it/1CAXXDk

Justin Anderson ‏@JusAnderson1 6m6 minutes ago
What? Where are you people getting this stuff? Geez! I just woke up!

[SCMatt33]

Adrian Wojnarowski may know something before the early entrant himself even knows it:

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 21m21 minutes ago
Yahoo Sources: Virginia junior Justin Anderson plans to enter the 2015 NBA Draft. http://yhoo.it/1CAXXDk

Justin Anderson ‏@JusAnderson1 6m6 minutes ago
What? Where are you people getting this stuff? Geez! I just woke up!

...or just before he'll admit it. Or he might be 99% gone and going through the motions of entering, but hasn't yet been willing to go over the edge and enter. Not saying that Anderson has decided for sure or anything, but if Woj has sources, that probably means Anderson has taken some serious steps towards entering. Enough to say that he "currently plans to enter," but not enough to say "He's in the draft"

[duke09hms]

Adrian Wojnarowski may know something before the early entrant himself even knows it:

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 21m21 minutes ago
Yahoo Sources: Virginia junior Justin Anderson plans to enter the 2015 NBA Draft. http://yhoo.it/1CAXXDk

Justin Anderson ‏@JusAnderson1 6m6 minutes ago
What? Where are you people getting this stuff? Geez! I just woke up!

Maybe hopefully Anderson will come back just to prove the hack wrong.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I think Anderson is just playing dumb. Every bit of information out there points to him going pro. And frankly, I don't blame him.

My default position at this point is that if guys are reasonably assured of being picked, they should go. Can't very well go back on that just for my own team's purposes. I wish him well and think he'll be a great representative for UVA.

Also, it's a minor thing, but I'm pretty sure Anderson is still dating Morgan Brian from the USWNT. I don't know if it will be easier or harder to sync their schedules with him (presumably) on an NBA roster, but I'm sure it was a consideration.

[OldPhiKap]

Adrian Wojnarowski may know something before the early entrant himself even knows it:

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 21m21 minutes ago
Yahoo Sources: Virginia junior Justin Anderson plans to enter the 2015 NBA Draft. http://yhoo.it/1CAXXDk

Justin Anderson ‏@JusAnderson1 6m6 minutes ago
What? Where are you people getting this stuff? Geez! I just woke up!

Just woke up? Hell, he's lazy -- drop him down a few pegs!


(As a college fan I hope he comes back. As a realist, I wish him the best in whatever decision he makes. UVa will be formidable either way. Good luck Justin).

[JasonEvans]

...or just before he'll admit it. Or he might be 99% gone and going through the motions of entering, but hasn't yet been willing to go over the edge and enter. Not saying that Anderson has decided for sure or anything, but if Woj has sources, that probably means Anderson has taken some serious steps towards entering. Enough to say that he "currently plans to enter," but not enough to say "He's in the draft"

Ding ding ding... Matt is dead on target. These kids start talking to agents and even to personnel folks with NBA teams and word leaks out. It does not always mean the kid is going to declare, but is a pretty good sign.

I wonder if some of these mid-late first round guys will realize that the 2016 draft is going to be really weak and that they can go from approx 20th pick to 10th pick (or higher) by waiting one more year. Have any mid-first round guys decided to come back?

-Jason "Maryland is keeping Jake Layman and Melo Trimble. They could have come out, but would be fringe first rounders. Makes the Terps preseason Big Ten favorites, I think" Evans

[Duke95]

I wonder if some of these mid-late first round guys will realize that the 2016 draft is going to be really weak and that they can go from approx 20th pick to 10th pick (or higher) by waiting one more year. Have any mid-first round guys decided to come back?


This may be a consideration for Tyus Jones, but I don't dare get my hopes up. If he has a sterling sophomore year, he could possibly move into high lottery in next year's draft.

[wilson]

...Makes the Terps preseason Big Ten favorites, I think" EvansI think you're right. Given the seeming slate of top contenders for next season (twerps, heels, Kentucky), I am very thankful that it'll be a championship afterglow season, with very little hand-wringing on my part.
Please note that this does not mean that I'm giving up on the season already, or that I believe any non-championship season is by definition meaningless. I'll enjoy the continued development of our players, be intrigued by K's coaching moves with a team that looks to have some interesting personnel challenges, and enjoy the ride as ever. It'll just be nice to go through the journey devoid of the "pressure" and nervousness produced when one hopes that just perhaps the team might reach the mountaintop.

[BD80]

Adrian Wojnarowski may know something before the early entrant himself even knows it:

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 21m21 minutes ago
Yahoo Sources: Virginia junior Justin Anderson plans to enter the 2015 NBA Draft. http://yhoo.it/1CAXXDk

Justin Anderson ‏@JusAnderson1 6m6 minutes ago
What? Where are you people getting this stuff? Geez! I just woke up!

Parrish is running with it, citing Yahoo Sports:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25147168/virginias-justin-anderson-plans-to-leave-school-enter-2015-nba-draft

[Duvall]

-Jason "Maryland is keeping Jake Layman and Melo Trimble. They could have come out, but would be fringe first rounders. Makes the Terps preseason Big Ten favorites, I think" Evans

Man, that league must be SEC-soft next year. College basketball is going to be bereft of high-end talent.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Man, that league must be SEC-soft next year. College basketball is going to bereft of high-end talent.

The jerks in East Lansing picked up a big commitment the other day and look to be pretty strong. They've also got the WVU transfer, Harris, becoming eligible.

[duke09hms]

Man, that league must be SEC-soft next year. College basketball is going to bereft of high-end talent.

Sigh, the path is clear for UNC. For the good of all humankind, looks like we're gonna have to do it ourselves.

[devildeac]

Sigh, the path is clear for UNC. For the good of all humankind, looks like we're gonna have to do it ourselves.

Go w*ldcats!

(time for my Zofran now:rolleyes:.)

[Duvall]

Olivier Hanlan - remember Olivier Hanlan? Anyway, he gone. (https://mobile.twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/587666737102983169?p=v)

[BD80]

Olivier Hanlan - remember Olivier Hanlan? Anyway, he gone. (https://mobile.twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/587666737102983169?p=v)

Hasn't he scored around 110% of the Eagles points over the last 2 years?

[SCMatt33]

Jeff Goodman is now also reporting that Anderson is leaving for the draft (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12680191/justin-anderson-virginia-cavaliers-enter-nba-draft). While others have picked up Woj's earlier report, Goodman appears to have his own sources, stating that Anderson has informed Tony Bennett of his plans to enter the draft. This info was not included in Woj's report, so while it's not official yet by any means, there now appear to be multiple independent sources reporting this as opposed to a bunch of people picking up on one report.

[Duvall]

If you were waiting for an official announcement that Anderson is going into the draft (though why would you), here it is. (http://www.virginiasports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/041315aaa.html)


Junior guard Justin Anderson (Montross, Va.) announced Monday (April 13) that he will forego his final season of eligibility at Virginia and enter the 2015 NBA Draft.

[duke09hms]

Selfishly, the Justin Anderson news is bad for us because it would have been nice to have a stacked UVA team around to knock off UNC.

Objectively, is this a good personal decision for him? He's projected as a early 2nd round pick. Could a strong senior season have boosted him into the first round in a much weaker 2016 draft? His high 3pt-FG % was boosted by an otherworldly early part of the season, and so his true shooting ability could have shone through next year and hurt him.

[Wahoo2000]

Selfishly, the Justin Anderson news is bad for us because it would have been nice to have a stacked UVA team around to knock off UNC.

Objectively, is this a good personal decision for him? He's projected as a early 2nd round pick. Could a strong senior season have boosted him into the first round in a much weaker 2016 draft? His high 3pt-FG % was boosted by an otherworldly early part of the season, and so his true shooting ability could have shone through next year and hurt him.

This is probably for the best. The draft for next season may seem a little weaker, but if you combine the "senior-bias" factor with the likelihood that his perimeter shooting comes back to earth next season.... seems unlikely he'd improve his draft projection by more then a handful of spots. The potential is probably bigger that he would drop really, assuming he reverts closer to his career 3pt % in the very low 30s.

We'll be ok - I'd expect Shayok (and maybe Wilkins too) to take a pretty big leap next year. Plus the Thompson kid who transferred from Tennessee will be eligible and give us a dimension we've been lacking in - blow-by penetration ability. I almost like the idea of being fringe top 10 projected (rather than #1 or #2), only to exceed expectations again (for like the 6th straight year under Bennett).

[gumbomoop]

We'll be ok - I'd expect Shayok (and maybe Wilkins too) to take a pretty big leap next year. Plus the Thompson kid who transferred from Tennessee will be eligible and give us a dimension we've been lacking in - blow-by penetration ability. I almost like the idea of being fringe top 10 projected (rather than #1 or #2), only to exceed expectations again (for like the 6th straight year under Bennett).

You'll be a lot better than ok if Tobey wakes up, or something. Underachiever. Disappointing. Also, Nolte has regressed from a very promising frosh season, especially as 3-bomber. Those two seniors have to play much better, especially Tobey for 25 mpg, 12/7. Yes? I like Shayok to leap, too, but Tobey's the key, IMO.

[Wahoo2000]

You'll be a lot better than ok if Tobey wakes up, or something. Underachiever. Disappointing. Also, Nolte has regressed from a very promising frosh season, especially as 3-bomber. Those two seniors have to play much better, especially Tobey for 25 mpg, 12/7. Yes? I like Shayok to leap, too, but Tobey's the key, IMO.

Don't forget about our pace. Tobey at 12/7 in our system is probably equivalent to 15/10 in a mid- or up-tempo team. Brogdon, Anderson, Harris were all about 12/13ppg guys, so averaging 12 points is probably about as good as it gets for us when we have a relatively balanced offense. Brogdon and Gill will want their share of shots as well. Tobey just seems to lack the intensity necessary to become a dominant guy inside, despite having a great skill set.

As for Nolte, he knows Bennett's defense inside and out, but against top teams, he just cannot even come close to matching up athletically. If his shot doesn't return in a BIG way next season, I'm personally hoping he fades towards the bottom of the rotation and most of his minutes go to Wilkins.

[DarkstarWahoo]

2000, I know it was fan talk, but remember the Singler comps folks were throwing around for Nolte? We were so young.

[gumbomoop]

Don't forget about our pace. Tobey at 12/7 in our system is probably equivalent to 15/10 in a mid- or up-tempo team. Brogdon, Anderson, Harris were all about 12/13ppg guys, so averaging 12 points is probably about as good as it gets for us when we have a relatively balanced offense. Brogdon and Gill will want their share of shots as well. Tobey just seems to lack the intensity necessary to become a dominant guy inside, despite having a great skill set.

I stand corrected on the ppg. How about the 7 rpg? He better get some intensity, at least on the boards. Is the idea (mine, I guess) that Tobey should "demand the ball" as incompatible with Bennett's O as it is with Tobey's un-intensity?

[gurufrisbee]

Reports now about Witjer going pro.

Witjer, Justin Anderson, Michael Frazier, Tyler Harvey, Dakari Johnson, Tokoto, etc.. So sad every year to see guys who absolutely should be staying in college leaving early.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

The jerks in East Lansing picked up a big commitment the other day and look to be pretty strong. They've also got the WVU transfer, Harris, becoming eligible.

huh?

[CDu]

huh?

That quote came from a UVa fan. Suffice to say there might be some anti-Sparty angst in Charlottesville after the last 13 months.

[Olympic Fan]

Don't forget about our pace. Tobey at 12/7 in our system is probably equivalent to 15/10 in a mid- or up-tempo team.

Except that Tobey has never been a 12/7 guy -- or anywhere close to it.

Last year he averaged 6.9 ppg and 5.1 reb. Down the stretch, he averaged 4.2 ppg and 5.1 reb -- he was terrible in the last three games. A year ago, starting 28 games, he averaged 6.4 ppg and 3.8 reb.

He's got a long way to be a 12/7 guy -- no matter what the pace.

I like Darius Thompson, but keep in mind, he averaged 2.6 ppg as a freshman at Tennessee in 2014.

If Virginia is going to be good next year -- and I think they will -- it's because of Brogdon, Gill and Perrantes. (And the fact that they are the most consistent defensive team in the ACC).

[gumbomoop]

Except that Tobey has never been a 12/7 guy -- or anywhere close to it.

Last year he averaged 6.9 ppg and 5.1 reb. Down the stretch, he averaged 4.2 ppg and 5.1 reb -- he was terrible in the last three games. A year ago, starting 28 games, he averaged 6.4 ppg and 3.8 reb.

He's got a long way to be a 12/7 guy -- no matter what the pace.

I lake Darius Thompson, but keep in mind, he averaged 2.6 ppg as a freshman at Tennessee in 2014.

If Virginia is going to be good next year -- and I think they will -- it's because of Brogdon, Gill and Perrantes. (And the fact that they are the most consistent defensive team in the ACC).

To the extent that you're disagreeing about Tobey, your critique probably is fairly directed more at my (not Wahoo2000's) 12/7 statement. Which was not, in any case, a prediction. For UVa to be really, as opposed to merely, good, I am still convinced Tobey is a key. My guess is that he might be capable of substantial improvement, up to 25 mpg and perhaps 10/7. But even that might be expecting too much improvement, as you say/imply. If he can play 25 mpg, I don't see why his numbers couldn't rise some. But if he stays down at 17-18 mpg, his numbers won't be any better.

I don't expect Tobey to be more important than the 3 fine players you cite, but I do think he can, and might, improve noticeably. To repeat: someone has to help Gill on the boards, now that Atkins and apparently Anderson are gone. If Tobey doesn't produce a few more points and rebounds -- if as a senior he does not improve more than just marginally -- I don't see a great season for the Hoos.

[CameronBornAndBred]

In the "Who?" category, Terry Whisnant from ECU has declared. So Jeff Lebo and Ol' Roy both have one player that won't be back next year.
http://www.wralsportsfan.com/ecu-guard-whisnant-to-skip-senior-season-turn-pro/14580304/

Edit..after some Googling, I learned that he played 2 seasons for FSU. Odd career move...ACC to ECU to ?

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/11/terry-whisnant-is-leaving-florida-state/

[DarkstarWahoo]

That quote came from a UVa fan. Suffice to say there might be some anti-Sparty angst in Charlottesville after the last 13 months.

Correct. It was sarcasm...mostly.

[MCFinARL]

Reports now about Witjer going pro.

Witjer, Justin Anderson, Michael Frazier, Tyler Harvey, Dakari Johnson, Tokoto, etc.. So sad every year to see guys who absolutely should be staying in college leaving early.

Okay, but Wiltjer is a transfer who is 22 and has been in college 4 years--so he may be about to earn a degree and, realistically, has to take his own age into account. So it may not be a wrong decision for him even if it seems like he might have more to gain in college.

[Duke95]

How is Dakari Johnson ready for the NBA? He wasn't even ready for Kentucky this year. The only tournament games where he got more than 8 minutes were the beatdowns of WVa and Hampton.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Working in Tobey's favor, there's a decent stretch of UVA big men taking decent leaps in their fourth year. And while the coaching staff is in upheaval, Jason Williford is the big-man coach, and he's still around.

Since Bennett and Williford (and Mike Curtis) showed up, Jerome Meyinsse, Mike Scott, Akil Mitchell and Darion Atkins all made big leaps their senior year. Heck, they turned Assane Sene into a serviceable ACC center until he got hurt. If Tobey makes that kind of improvement, 13-7 is within reach, and that's pretty good for a third option on a low-scoring team. (It's also Anthony Gill's fourth year at UVA, but I think he's a lot closer to his ceiling than Tobey is.) And Tobey is better now than all those guys were as juniors, save Scott and Mitchell (but it's close with Mitchell).

The case against that happening: Mitchell and Atkins added a lot more value on the defensive end than Tobey, realistically, ever will.

[JasonEvans]

How is Dakari Johnson ready for the NBA? He wasn't even ready for Kentucky this year. The only tournament games where he got more than 8 minutes were the beatdowns of WVa and Hampton.

He still has the "potential" stink all over him. If he came back to Kentucky, he would actually be expected to play and contribute and show in real games against real competition under real pressure that he actually knew how to play the game of basketball. Much smarter to just declare now when he is a total unknown and let the NBA throw a few million at him regardless of whether he actually is any good at this game.

-Jason "some NBA team drafting in the 20s will take a flier on him... anyone want to bet on whether he plays more next season in the NBA or the D-League?" Evans

[Kedsy]

"some NBA team drafting in the 20s will take a flier on him...

Maybe. I think it's more likely he goes in the second round.

[JasonEvans]

D'Angello Russell, freshman at Ohio State, is declaring for the draft (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/237390/DAngelo-Russell-To-Declare-For-Draft-Deciding-Upon-Representation). He's considered a potential top 5 pick.

-Jason

[sagegrouse]

How is Dakari Johnson ready for the NBA? He wasn't even ready for Kentucky this year. The only tournament games where he got more than 8 minutes were the beatdowns of WVa and Hampton.

At Kentucky, you understand, you don't jump to the NBA -- you walk the plank on the whim of the coach. "Arrrghhh!"

[BD80]

D'Angello Russell, freshman at Ohio State, is declaring for the draft (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/237390/DAngelo-Russell-To-Declare-For-Draft-Deciding-Upon-Representation). He's considered a potential top 5 pick.

-Jason

This certainly pushes Tyus down a spot. I wonder if there is a make or break spot in the draft that is a decision point for him, say top 15? 20?

With all of the second round level talent declaring this year (saw a great Tweet: "Did the NBA draft expand to 3 rounds?"), next year's draft should be even weaker. Guys that could improve their stock and move up into or higher in the first round next year will already be gone.

[JasonEvans]

This certainly pushes Tyus down a spot. I wonder if there is a make or break spot in the draft that is a decision point for him, say top 15? 20?

With all of the second round level talent declaring this year (saw a great Tweet: "Did the NBA draft expand to 3 rounds?"), next year's draft should be even weaker. Guys that could improve their stock and move up into or higher in the first round next year will already be gone.

Actually, it doesn't push him down because everyone knew Russell was coming out and that he would be a high lottery pick. He would have already been in Tyus' calculations. I don't think there have really been any surprise decisions to come out or stay in school which would move Tyus up or down thus far. All the surprise decisions seem to have been, as you indicated, likely 2nd round guys.

There aren't really many guys who could declare at this point who would pose a surprise to Tyus and move him down in the draft. Melo Trimble was potentially one of them but he is coming back to Maryland. Maybe Justin Jackson could have impacted Tyus if he had come out. Big men Jakob Poeltl of Utah, Bobby Portis of Arkansas, and Damontas Sabonis of Gonzaga are guys who are probably coming back who might be first rounders if they had declared. UConn freshman Daniel Hamilton is supposedly really interesting to NBA folks and would likely be ahead of Tyus if he came out, but it appears he is coming back to school. That's about it, I think.

-Jason "if you look at 2014 high school recruiting rankings, about 90% of the top 15 players in the class appear to be declaring for the draft... UNC's Jackson may be the only guy coming back" Evans

[tbyers11]

The case against that happening: Mitchell and Atkins added a lot more value on the defensive end than Tobey, realistically, ever will.

DarkstarWahoo or any other Hoo posters,

Losing Anderson to the draft is obviously a big hit. He is a very talented, extremely athletic player who greatly improved his shooting last year. However, I think the point above added at the end of the discussion of Tobey needing to step up his offensive game is possibly of more importance for UVa's chances to be a top 5 team next year.

Is the packline D going to be quite as awesome without an athletic 4/5 manning the interior? I think Tobey is a very capable scorer and rebounder for a 3rd option but I am wondering if his defensive shortcomings will be a larger problem. Mitchell and Atkins' ability to help and recover on high pick-and-roll was outstanding and their ability to double down and help against penetration was a major component of UVa's great D the last 2 years. Tobey is not a bad one-on-one defender against a 5 man in the post, but how much will his lack of footspeed/athleticism hinder the overall team D? Thoughts?

[bob blue devil]

i was taken aback when i read this comment in a jacobs article (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/article18336920.html) linked by dbr on the front page:


Tokoto, a popular media choice for the ACC’s all-defensive team, wasn’t among the options the school offered on the ballot, hinting at disfavor within the program. That might help explain one of the last great upsets of the 2015 season: the erratic, offensively challenged Tokoto announced for the draft even before Duke’s Jahlil Okafor, the ACC player of the year, and Justise Winslow, among the best forwards the league has seen in recent memory.

can anyone shed some insight as to the process of putting a ballot together - is there any way this can be considered something other than a complete slap in the face of tokoto? on the surface, i agree with mr. king's assessment that this comes across as completely petty and reflects poorly on the program. of course there is probably more to this story than we'll even know, but all of these people (roy, tokoto) seem completely blind to how their actions will be perceived.

[DarkstarWahoo]

DarkstarWahoo or any other Hoo posters,

Losing Anderson to the draft is obviously a big hit. He is a very talented, extremely athletic player who greatly improved his shooting last year. However, I think the point above added at the end of the discussion of Tobey needing to step up his offensive game is possibly of more importance for UVa's chances to be a top 5 team next year.

Is the packline D going to be quite as awesome without an athletic 4/5 manning the interior? I think Tobey is a very capable scorer and rebounder for a 3rd option but I am wondering if his defensive shortcomings will be a larger problem. Mitchell and Atkins' ability to help and recover on high pick-and-roll was outstanding and their ability to double down and help against penetration was a major component of UVa's great D the last 2 years. Tobey is not a bad one-on-one defender against a 5 man in the post, but how much will his lack of footspeed/athleticism hinder the overall team D? Thoughts?

That's a major concern to me. The defense was good before 2013, but it really hit another level when Mitchell did, and Atkins kept that up. Tobey doesn't have the foot speed to be as good as them, although he could battle the position to a draw. Gill is more athletic, but loses focus sometimes on the defensive end. Long-term, my big hope is that Isaiah Wilkins has another couple of inches of growth left in him. He seems to me to be the closest thing to Mitchell and Atkins in an athletic sense, but he just doesn't have the size yet.

I also wonder if Jack Salt can help there - he came from a volleyball background, which I think is part of what Bennett liked in terms of his ability to move laterally. The problems with him are twofold - he's supposed to be something of a foul machine at this point, and he might be too much of a hole on the offensive end right now to give him major minutes.

[Olympic Fan]

i was taken aback when i read this comment in a jacobs article (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/article18336920.html) linked by dbr on the front page:



can anyone shed some insight as to the process of putting a ballot together - is there any way this can be considered something other than a complete slap in the face of tokoto? on the surface, i agree with mr. king's assessment that this comes across as completely petty and reflects poorly on the program. of course there is probably more to this story than we'll even know, but all of these people (roy, tokoto) seem completely blind to how their actions will be perceived.

The omission of Tokoto from the ballot was not the only head-scratcher this year.

Virginia refused to nominate Malcolm Brogdon for ACC defensive player of the year, although he would have won the award in a landslide. Instead, Virginia nominated Darion Adkins, who won by default -- but not as big as Brogdon would have won. The problem was that the ACC adopted a new voting system this year that didn't allow for write-ins. You could only vote for the players nominated (which also explains why Jahlil was the unanimous ACC ROY -- the was the only guy nominated. I know he deserved to be unanimous, but anyone who's followed all-acc voting over the years knows that normally, there would be 4-5 anti-Duke idiots who would have voted for somebody else).

Interesting that the coaches, who had no such restrictions, gave Brogdon 11 votes for ACC DPOY and five votes to Gill -- none to Adkins.

Tokoto was not an option for the writers' all-defensive team ... although to be fair, he didn't make the coaches' team either.

[JasonEvans]

The omission of Tokoto from the ballot was not the only head-scratcher this year.

Virginia refused to nominate Malcolm Brogdon for ACC defensive player of the year, although he would have won the award in a landslide. Instead, Virginia nominated Darion Adkins, who won by default -- but not as big as Brogdon would have won. The problem was that the ACC adopted a new voting system this year that didn't allow for write-ins. You could only vote for the players nominated (which also explains why Jahlil was the unanimous ACC ROY -- the was the only guy nominated. I know he deserved to be unanimous, but anyone who's followed all-acc voting over the years knows that normally, there would be 4-5 anti-Duke idiots who would have voted for somebody else).

Interesting that the coaches, who had no such restrictions, gave Brogdon 11 votes for ACC DPOY and five votes to Gill -- none to Adkins.

Tokoto was not an option for the writers' all-defensive team ... although to be fair, he didn't make the coaches' team either.

I'm really confused now. Who did Carolina nominate instead of Tokoto? Paige? What kind of whacked out system limits how many players a team can nominate and then does not allow for write-ins?!?!

Also, as I look at the DPOY results (http://www.streakingthelawn.com/virginia-cavaliers-basketball/2015/3/8/8171171/2015-all-acc-mens-basketball-), it shows two Pittsburgh guys, James Robinson and Cameron Wright, both got votes. How was Pitt allowed to nominate 2 players but Virginia could only nominate Adkins?

-Jason "Carolina looks terrible for not nominating Tokoto... dude is a great defender" Evans

[Olympic Fan]

I'm really confused now. Who did Carolina nominate instead of Tokoto? Paige? What kind of whacked out system limits how many players a team can nominate and then does not allow for write-ins?!?!

Also, as I look at the DPOY results (http://www.streakingthelawn.com/virginia-cavaliers-basketball/2015/3/8/8171171/2015-all-acc-mens-basketball-), it shows two Pittsburgh guys, James Robinson and Cameron Wright, both got votes. How was Pitt allowed to nominate 2 players but Virginia could only nominate Adkins?

-Jason "Carolina looks terrible for not nominating Tokoto... dude is a great defender" Evans

Jason,

There was no limit to the number of players a team could nominate. Virginia COULD have nominated Adkins and Brogdon for DPOY. By nominating Tokoto, UNC would not be eliminating somebody else their staff liked (although nominating two players obviously could split your vote).

I think that's why Barry pointed out that the failure to nominate Tokoto was seen as a slap in his face.

It was a deliberate decision by the staff (just as Virginia's decision to nominate Adkins and not Brogdon for DPOY was deliberate). FWIW, Virginia did nominate Adkins AND Brogdon for the all-defensive team -- and Brogdon got 12 more votes (50-38) than the DPOY that they forced down our throats.

PS Agree that the system that prevented write ins was "whacked out". I promise you, that's been brought up to the powers-that-be in the ACSMA (which oversees the vote).

[devildeac]

Actually, it doesn't push him down because everyone knew Russell was coming out and that he would be a high lottery pick. He would have already been in Tyus' calculations. I don't think there have really been any surprise decisions to come out or stay in school which would move Tyus up or down thus far. All the surprise decisions seem to have been, as you indicated, likely 2nd round guys.

There aren't really many guys who could declare at this point who would pose a surprise to Tyus and move him down in the draft. Melo Trimble was potentially one of them but he is coming back to Maryland. Maybe Justin Jackson could have impacted Tyus if he had come out. Big men Jakob Poeltl of Utah, Bobby Portis of Arkansas, and Damontas Sabonis of Gonzaga are guys who are probably coming back who might be first rounders if they had declared. UConn freshman Daniel Hamilton is supposedly really interesting to NBA folks and would likely be ahead of Tyus if he came out, but it appears he is coming back to school. That's about it, I think.

-Jason "if you look at 2014 high school recruiting rankings, about 90% of the top 15 players in the class appear to be declaring for the draft... UNC's Jackson may be the only guy coming back" Evans

Jackson coming back? WTH?

I guess that provokes the question/dilemma/problem:

What is/are ol roy's problem/s?

a) Can't develop/promote/coach that OAD talent?
b) Those *nc recruits are so over-rated.
c) Damn him, he's holding back all that talent and "forcing" those kids to return to school to "pad" his W-L record.
d) a and b
e) a and c
f) b and c
g) none of the above
h) all of the above
i) screw this test. Let me write a damned paper because I'm going to get an A- anyway

:rolleyes:

[BD80]

... There aren't really many guys who could declare at this point who would pose a surprise to Tyus and move him down in the draft. ... Big men Jakob Poeltl of Utah, Bobby Portis of Arkansas, and Damontas Sabonis of Gonzaga are guys who are probably coming back who might be first rounders if they had declared. ...

6'11" sophomore Bobby Portis, SEC player of the year, is coming out ...

http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/arkansas-razorbacks-bobby-portis-declares-for-nba-draft-041415

[Olympic Fan]

-Jason "if you look at 2014 high school recruiting rankings, about 90% of the top 15 players in the class appear to be declaring for the draft... UNC's Jackson may be the only guy coming back" Evans

Actually, it's a bit early to make that claim -- for instance, Tyus Jones hasn't officially declared.

But I think you are going to end up right -- at least that Justin Jackson is the top rated prospect from last year's class who hadn't turned pro.

In fact, out of the top 16 players in last year's class, it looks like the only ones staying at No. 9 Jackson, No. 14 Isaiah Whitehead of Seton Hall and No. 15 Theo Pinson of UNC (all ratings based on RSCI):

https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2014-final

That means UNC will have two of the top three guys staying. BTW Whitehead had a pretty good freshman year on the court, but was involved in a couple of ugly off-court incidents (and at least one source blames him for Seton Hall's meltdown this season).

But it's not just Jackson and Pinson. Isaiah Hicks was not the top-rated guy in the 2013 class to come back, but it looks like he'll be the top-rated player in the class who is returning for his junior year (he was just behind Bobby Portis and just ahead of Hollis-Jefferson and Joel Embid on the 2013 prospect list). But as bad as all this makes Roy look (as far as preparing top prospects for the pros), a closer examination of the recent recruiting lists reveals a coach who is far worse than Ol' Roy when it comes to getting top talent to the pros in a hurry -- none other than John Calipari.

Yes, he's had five top 10 prospects go directly to the NBA after one year in the last three classes (Noel, Goodwin, Randle, James Young and Karl Anthony Towns ... but he's also had three top 10 guys stay two years (the Harrison twins and Dakari Johnson) and one top 10 guy stay at least three years (Poythress, the No. 8 player in the class of 2012). He did better in 2010 and 2011, getting five of five top prospects in the pros after one year at Kentucky, although he did miss on No. 11 Terrence Jones in that span.

If you extend it to guys rated in the second 10, you add one-and-done Trey Lyles, but you also miss on Marcus Lee and Tyler Ulis.

Percentage-wise, nobody has as poor a record as Calipari when it comes to turning a top 10 prospect into a one-and-done -- not even Roy.

PS For what it's worth, 100 percent of K's top 10 prospects since 2010 (Irving, Austin Rivers, Jabari Parker, Jahlil Okafor and presumably Tyus Jones) have been one-and-dones ... and one of his two prospects rated between 11-20 (Justise Winslow) have been one and done (Rasheed Sulaimon is the other).

[CDu]

Actually, it's a bit early to make that claim -- for instance, Tyus Jones hasn't officially declared.

But I think you are going to end up right -- at least that Justin Jackson is the top rated prospect from last year's class who hadn't turned pro.

In fact, out of the top 16 players in last year's class, it looks like the only ones staying at No. 9 Jackson, No. 14 Isaiah Whitehead of Seton Hall and No. 15 Theo Pinson of UNC (al;l ratings based on RSCI):

https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2014-final

That means UNC will have two of the top three guys staying. BTW Whitehead had a pretty good freshman year on the court, but was involved in a couple of ugly off-court incidents (and at least one source blames him for Seton Hall's meltdown this season).

But it's not just Jackson and Pinson. Isaiah Hicks was not the top-rated guy in the 2013 class to come back, but it looks like he'll be the top-rated player in the class who is returning for his junior year (he was just behind Bobby Portis and just ahead of Hollis-Jefferson and Joel Embid on the 2013 prospect list). But as bad as all this makes Roy look (as far as preparing top prospects for the pros), a closer examination of the recent recruiting lists reveals a coach who is far worse than Ol' Roy when it comes to getting top talent to the pros in a hurry -- none other than John Calipari.

Yes, he's had five top 10 prospects go directly to the NBA after one year in the last three classes (Noel, Goodwin, Randle, James Young and Karl Anthony Towns ... but he's also had three top 10 guys stay two years (the Harrison twins and Dakari Johnson) and one top 10 guy stay at least three years (Poythress, the No. 8 player in the class of 2012). He did better in 2010 and 2011, getting five of five top prospects in the pros after one year at Kentucky, although he did miss on No. 11 Terrence Jones in that span.

If you extend it to guys rated in the second 10, you add one-and-done Trey Lyles, but you also miss on Marcus Lee and Tyler Ulis.

Percentage-wise, nobody has as poor a record as Calipari when it comes to turning a top 10 prospect into a one-and-done -- not even Roy.

PS For what it's worth, 100 percent of K's top 10 prospects since 2010 (Irving, Austin Rivers, Jabari Parker, Jahlil Okafor and presumably Tyus Jones) have been one-and-dones ... and one of his two prospects rated between 11-20 (Justise Winslow) have been one and done (Rasheed Sulaimon is the other).

Actually, as I understand it, Williams is far and away the leader in percentage of his top-10 recruits not being one-and-done. I don't think he has had a single one of them go one and done since Brandan Wright.

Calipari surely leads in number (a function of him being the hands-down leader in number of such recruits), but no way he has a higher percentage of misses among his top-10 recruits than Roy does.

[pfrduke]

Actually, as I understand it, Williams is far and away the leader in percentage of his top-10 recruits not being one-and-done. I don't think he has had a single one of them go one and done since Brandan Wright.

Calipari surely leads in number (a function of him being the hands-down leader in number of such recruits), but no way he has a higher percentage of misses among his top-10 recruits than Roy does.

Per RSCI, 7 of the last 8 top 10 recruits have lasted more than one year: Lawson, Ellington, Davis, Henson, Barnes, McAdoo, Jackson. RSCI also had Hairston at 11.

[CDu]

Per RSCI, 7 of the last 8 top 10 recruits have lasted more than one year: Lawson, Ellington, Davis, Henson, Barnes, McAdoo, Jackson. RSCI also had Hairston at 11.

Exactly. No way Calipari's percentage is worse than that. If you think you are a one-and-done candidate, UNC is the last place you want to go. Which might partly explain why UNC hasn't done quite as well on the recruiting trail lately.

[Olympic Fan]

Actually, as I understand it, Williams is far and away the leader in percentage of his top-10 recruits not being one-and-done. I don't think he has had a single one of them go one and done since Brandan Wright.

Calipari surely leads in number (a function of him being the hands-down leader in number of such recruits), but no way he has a higher percentage of misses among his top-10 recruits than Roy does.

You're right -- I got a little carried away with the revelation that Calipari's percentage of top prospects becoming one-and-dones is actually not very good.

But he is not the worst.

Roy is worse if you go back far enough -- No. 4 Tyler Hansborough, No. 5 Ty Lawson, No. 8 Wayne Ellington, No. 9 Ed Davis, No. 1 Harrison Barnes, No. 5 James McAdoo and No. 9 Justin Jackson are all top 10 guys who failed to be one-and-done. Add No. 15 Danny Green, No. 11 PJ Hairston, No. 15 Reggie Bullock and No. 16 Tyler Zeller to No. 14 Isaiah Hicks and No. 15 Theo Pinson -- and Roy is clearly the worst at turning top prospects into one-and-done ... my apologies for mistakenly labeling Calipari as the worst -- he's only the second worse.

So despite eight top 10 prospects in the last decade (and six more in the 11-20 range), Roy has turned out one one-and-done -- No. 3 Brandon Wright

[pfrduke]

You're right -- I got a little carried away with the revelation that Calipari's percentage of top prospects becoming one-and-dones is actually not very good.

But he is not the worst.

Roy is worse if you go back far enough -- No. 4 Tyler Hansborough, No. 5 Ty Lawson, No. 8 Wayne Ellington, No. 9 Ed Davis, No. 1 Harrison Barnes, No. 5 James McAdoo and No. 9 Justin Jackson are all top 10 guys who failed to be one-and-done. Add No. 15 Danny Green, No. 11 PJ Hairston, No. 15 Reggie Bullock and No. 16 Tyler Zeller to No. 14 Isaiah Hicks and No. 15 Theo Pinson -- and Roy is clearly the worst at turning top prospects into one-and-done ... my apologies for mistakenly labeling Calipari as the worst -- he's only the second worse.

So despite eight top 10 prospects in the last decade (and six more in the 11-20 range), Roy has turned out one one-and-done -- No. 3 Brandon Wright

Don't forget No. 5 John Henson. Carolina's success over the past decade, such as it has been, has been directly attributable to retaining high-level talent for longer than any other team. Whether that's a positivie or a negative is, I suspect, decidedly in the eye of the beholder.

[Olympic Fan]

Don't forget No. 5 John Henson. Carolina's success over the past decade, such as it has been, has been directly attributable to retaining high-level talent for longer than any other team. Whether that's a positivie or a negative is, I suspect, decidedly in the eye of the beholder.

Damn, don't know how I missed Henson ... you are right. It's 1 of the last nine top 10 prospects that have been one-and-done.

No wonder top prospects no longer want to go there.

[BD80]

Damn, don't know how I missed Henson ... .

He was facing sideways ...

[Wander]

This thread has taken a silly turn. It wasn't that long ago that many criticized K for supposedly keeping guys in college too long - Josh McRoberts and Kyle Singler in particular had their draft stock drop a lot by staying in school. It also wasn't that long ago that many Duke fans wanted K to place less emphasis on obvious OAD guys after the way the Rivers and Parker season ended. That stuff was nonsense, and so is dinging UNC for having guys come back to school. If Okafor or Winslow were to decide to come back to school, what would the vibe here be like? Would we all be disappointed that K was failing to produce OADs? It is no more Roy's fault that McAdoo was overrated than it is with K and Paulus. Let's just go back to making fun of UNC for losing more games than they should and playing Nate Britt too much and not calling time outs.

[FerryFor50]

Roy has turned out one one-and-done -- No. 3 Brandon Wright

Actually, it's two.

Marvin Williams, as well.


This thread has taken a silly turn. It wasn't that long ago that many criticized K for supposedly keeping guys in college too long - Josh McRoberts and Kyle Singler in particular had their draft stock drop a lot by staying in school. It also wasn't that long ago that many Duke fans wanted K to place less emphasis on obvious OAD guys after the way the Rivers and Parker season ended. That stuff was nonsense, and so is dinging UNC for having guys come back to school. If Okafor or Winslow were to decide to come back to school, what would the vibe here be like? Would we all be disappointed that K was failing to produce OADs? It is no more Roy's fault that McAdoo was overrated than it is with K and Paulus. Let's just go back to making fun of UNC for losing more games than they should and playing Nate Britt too much and not calling time outs.

If you're not as good as everyone says you are, that means you should leave as soon as possible.

I think the general consensus is that Roy advises his players incorrectly. Remember the brouhaha with Reggie Bullock leaving early?

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-05-17/nba-draft-combine-2013-reggie-bullock-roy-williams-north-carolina-chicago

Roy didn't think Bullock would be a high pick but he broke into the first round.

McAdoo was considered a lottery pick based on potential after his freshman season. The longer he stuck around, the faster his stock fell as his game was exposed.

I can't recall a player leaving early and K publicly admonishing the player for it. Can you?

Plus, sheer volume... look at the list Olympic Fan put together. A cavalcade of players that could have gone after one year but somehow got talked out of it...

[-jk]

...

I can't recall a player leaving early and K publicly admonishing the player for it. Can you?

...

Will Avery. Might have benefited from a year or two more under K. He certainly didn't help himself.

-jk

[FerryFor50]

Will Avery. Might have benefited from a year or two more under K. He certainly didn't help himself.

-jk

I went to google what K said. This was an interesting find:

http://blog.dukeblueplanet.com/2012/06/will-avery-update/

Also found what was quite possibly the dumbest opinion piece I've ever read.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/859568-duke-basketball-picking-coach-ks-15-least-favorite-players-during-his-reign

All I found was some unsubstantiated rumor with some salty language:

http://i.imgur.com/uyP3XsE.png

Essentially, Avery told K he was staying and then bolted. I can't fault K for being pissed if that happened.

Hard to believe that K said what was rumored, especially since Avery came back for some K camps (as per the blog I posted).

[Olympic Fan]

Actually, it's two.

Marvin Williams, as well.

...

Ferry, I've made enough mistakes in this thread -- not taking the blame for this one. I knew about Williams, but read the whole sentence: I specified that I was talking about the last decade. Williams left 11 seasons ago (2005).

As for the K quotes upon Avery's departure, he didn't say anything negative publically. The obscene, negative comment comes from Curry Kirkpatrick, a UNC guy through and through who was fired from Sports Illustrated from falsifying his expense account. Both Will Avery and Avery's mother both denied that K ever said anything like that ... It's just an invention by a lying UNC fan.