MBB: Duke 68, San Diego State 49 Postgame Thread

[hurleyfor3]

Rollin' on.

[MarkD83]

Maybe duke can play defense

[kcduke75]

sweet, survive and advance!

[Karl Beem]

Not much to complain about.

[arnie]

100% from the line

[Troublemaker]

Great game!

Live postgame press conference will be here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8_OoYmzlVw

GoDuke will have it up later it you can't catch it now

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Ho-humm... Just another double digit NCAAT win.

Seriously, though, a solid workmanlike performance today.

Stress free viewing... I like it.

[gocanes0506]

Glad the team has 5 days to prep for Utah. Its going to be a tough game.

Got to see more movement when Jah gets doubled. Jah was a beast though. I have to agree with the poster that Winslow is gone for sure.

[jacone21]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpCpIh3LdDk

[subzero02]

We should get a Kenpom boost on defense... Offensive efficiency won't be as good as it should because of a lack of FT's. At the end of the broadcast they stated we've had a double digit lead for 61 of the 80 minutes of game time thus far.

[Kfanarmy]

Maybe duke can play defense

SDSU is offensively challenged I think. The combination of mostly focused Duke D and some bad misses makes the D look some margin better. Duke's O got it done against a very good D. Great game on the whole.

[Troublemaker]

We should get a Kenpom boost on defense... Offensive efficiency won't be as good as it should because of a lack of FT's. At the end of the broadcast they stated we've had a double digit lead for 61 of the 80 minutes of game time thus far.

I look forward to KenPom bumping us up from 55 to 53.

[Henderson]

In the UVa-MSU game, the teams averaged 30 free throws each. In this game, the teams averaged 7, with Duke shooting 2.

I hope we keep getting all the calls like that.

[Troublemaker]

Mayo Clinic article on stomach virus: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/viral-gastroenteritis/basics/symptoms/con-20019350

Excerpt:

Depending on the cause, viral gastroenteritis symptoms may appear within one to three days after you're infected and can range from mild to severe. Symptoms usually last just a day or two, but occasionally they may persist as long as 10 days.

If we caught it from SDSU, hopefully we experience the lower end of those ranges

[wsb3]

In the UVa-MSU game, the teams averaged 30 free throws each. In this game, the teams averaged 7, with Duke shooting 2.

I hope we keep getting all the calls like that.

I can't recall a game where it is less then 8 minutes to go before shooting first free throw. 2 for the entire game. That is hard to believe.

What a run when the lead was cut to 7.. Wow.. Sweet 16 and hopefully more..

[Troublemaker]

That was Jahlil's best all-around game in a Duke uniform, imo. He protected the rim well in addition to his awesome offensive performance.

BTW, the center he abused: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/mar/08/sdsu-basketball-mountain-west-all-conference/

[MarkD83]

Ho-humm... Just another double digit NCAAT win.

Seriously, though, a solid workmanlike performance today.

Stress free viewing... I like it.

Amen to stress free viewing

[Utley]

That's funny. My big worry at the end of the game was the post game handshake. I hope we had our hand sanitizer.


Mayo Clinic article on stomach virus: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/viral-gastroenteritis/basics/symptoms/con-20019350

Excerpt:

Depending on the cause, viral gastroenteritis symptoms may appear within one to three days after you're infected and can range from mild to severe. Symptoms usually last just a day or two, but occasionally they may persist as long as 10 days.

If we caught it from SDSU, hopefully we experience the lower end of those ranges

[Henderson]

Lots more stress free viewing of more great games tonight. Love this time of year.

[rsvman]

I'm an infectious diseases physician. I hope the first thing they did when they got to the locker room was wash their hands thoroughly with soap and water.
Incubation period is usually shorter than 48 hours. Typically 19 to 36. It can be hard to get stamina back even after you are well, though. I would give IV hydration early and often for anybody who contracts it. Cuts rerecovery time.
Also, people who are blood type B are essentially uninfectable. I hope everybody on the team is type B.

[hurleyfor3]

Lots more stress free viewing of more great games tonight. Love this time of year.

I don't feel like we're done with 2-seeds losing.

[Utley]

Congrats on winning the first weekend bracket. We couldn't play much better - Oak and Justise taking their game to another level.

I love the intensity from Coach K - has to be a sign that he sees the chance for something special.

Love having 5 more days to obsess about our season.

[BobbyFan]

Winslow had plenty of big boy rebounds in traffic. He dominated the boards, which was convenient considering SD State's only threat on offense was second chance points.

[SCMatt33]

Good win. You could tell that SDSU was really affected by the virus going around. They really faded the last ten minutes. Duke didn't need to dig into the Tyus reserves, as I'm now calling it when he decides he needs to take over. Got caught with the hot dogging again on that fast break where Jah thought he was Tyus, but I'll take those for now, knowing it means this team isn't nervous. Duke also did a good job beating them pretty thoroughly playing a game with a loose whistle and at SDSU's pace. The defensive intensity was there all game, though SDSU would've gotten the better of us a bit more if they could shoot. That's why they were an 8 seed and not a 3/4. Good to move on a face a tougher test in Utah.

[mr. synellinden]

I look forward to KenPom bumping us up from 55 to 53.

Up to 45 in defensive efficiency.

Listening to the press conference now. Coach K made a couple of important comments

The team is healthy now - but wasn't during the end of the season. Mentioned specifically that Jah is healthy and can play more minutes now.

The team is not mentally fatigued - they are ready for the remaining games and not ready for the season to end. They are a very close group - and they responded in both games when the opponent made a run in the second half. He is proud of the way the team responded to tournament pressure. (My comment - that's a great sign for a freshman-dominated team).

The team got better this weekend, including defensively.

The team shared the ball well.

This is a very complementary offensive team - best low post scorer in the country, good shooters and players who can drive to the basket.

[bedeviled]

A couple post-game comments that made me think about how K likes to develop point guards and put trust in them:

When asked about the shortened rotation and switch to full motion offense (minimal sets), K said [paraphrased]:
"I don't come in with a set rotation. It changes based on fouls, matchups, and conditioning. Jah was in better shape than the last 3.5 weeks of the season. I would have had Grayson in a little bit longer, but he got into foul trouble. This group kind of just 'hit.' [SDSU] has length, is tough to score against, and was prepared to stop our sets. So, I told them to run motion, attack, and follow your instincts. If you can, get it to Jah while running the motion. It was a good push for them. It translated to defense, too. They were the ones making plays and making it happen."

When asked about the Duke timeout called after Duke hit a big 3 when SDSU had cut the lead to 7:
"We had lost control of the game. The momentum of the game was theirs. We had just seized it with that 3, and I wanted to be the point guard. I told them, 'We need stops. Go motion." I've done that more this year, with this group - calling timeouts when it's not in the book to call them. I call them by feel."

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

A couple post-game comments that made me think about how K likes to develop point guards and put trust in them:

When asked about the shortened rotation and switch to full motion offense (minimal sets), K said [paraphrased]:
"I don't come in with a set rotation. It changes based on fouls, matchups, and conditioning. Jah was in better shape than the last 3.5 weeks of the season. I would have had Grayson in a little bit longer, but he got into foul trouble. This group kind of just 'hit.' [SDSU] has length, is tough to score against, and was prepared to stop our sets. So, I told them to run motion, attack, and follow your instincts. If you can, get it to Jah while running the motion. It was a good push for them. It translated to defense, too. They were the ones making plays and making it happen."

When asked about the Duke timeout called after Duke hit a big 3 when SDSU had cut the lead to 7:
"We had lost control of the game. The momentum of the game was theirs. We had just seized it with that 3, and I wanted to be the point guard. I told them, 'We need stops. Go motion." I've done that more this year, with this group - calling timeouts when it's not in the book to call them. I call them by feel."

Great point guard play wins championships.

[subzero02]

I look forward to KenPom bumping us up from 55 to 53.

What about moving from 55 to 45? We definitely have very little in common with the team currently ranked 53rd in defensive efficiency.

http://kenpom.com/

[Troublemaker]

I hesitate to take a position under the "be careful what you wish for" line of thinking. That said, in the abstract, I would far prefer to play offensively challenged but defensively strong teams than teams that have offensive skills and also play decent defense. I think our defense is good enough to stop bad offenses but vulnerable to good/decent offenses, and I like our offense against basically any defense.


The second comes from the profile of teams that have beaten us - on the smaller side, multiple ball-handlers, and shooting from deep. North Florida had that. San Diego State does not. I think we match up very well against offensively challenged teams; much better than against offensively gifted but defensively challenged teams.

Pulled a couple of pfr posts because I think I'm a believer in the hypothesis he describes above at this point. It does seem to me that Duke has a great enough offense that the quality of the opposing defense hardly matters.

Unfortunately, the only "average O, very good D" teams remaining in the field are Kansas, Oklahoma, Louisville, and Dayton. None are in the South region, and I suspect we're not going to run into any of them in the Final Four (if Duke gets that far).

(That said, it's not as if I'm shaking at the thought of playing Gonzaga or UCLA just because they don't fit the profile).

[porkpa]

I really LOVE this team.

[MCFinARL]

I'm an infectious diseases physician. I hope the first thing they did when they got to the locker room was wash their hands thoroughly with soap and water.
Incubation period is usually shorter than 48 hours. Typically 19 to 36. It can be hard to get stamina back even after you are well, though. I would give IV hydration early and often for anybody who contracts it. Cuts rerecovery time.
Also, people who are blood type B are essentially uninfectable. I hope everybody on the team is type B.

Since Quinn and Grayson have apparently already been sick, is there a chance they will have some immunity against re-infection right now?

[KandG]

Fantastic win. Agree with those who say SDSU may have been afflicted by the bug given how badly they faded, though our offense and defense had something to do with that.

Jah was especially awesome. Really thought he took his game to another level today. His offense looked even more otherworldly than usual for a college post player, and though he had a couple of silly turnovers trying to run fastbreaks, it was a sign he was feeling good and loose.

Defensively Jah looked much more engaged, especially in the second half. He used to approach players coming downhill at him off a pick and roll so tentatively it was almost always an easy score for the opponent. Today he actively (and intelligently) confronted the players that tried to drive at him, with mostly excellent results.

I've commented frequently on how important it is for Justise to start strong, and when he got going in the first 5 minutes, my stress level dropped several orders of magnitude. He also had a superb game. Hope that going home for the Sweet 16 gets his game up even higher, rather than serving as a distraction.

Glad to see Tyus making some shots in the second half, because he's struggled finishing lately. As good as Justise, Quinn and Jah have been in carrying the offense, feel like Tyus and Matt will need to contribute more against a higher level of competition next weekend...especially with the rotation getting even shorter, if today is any indication.

Liked the adjustments K made in the second half after SDSU adjusted how they were guarding Jah and cut the lead to 7. Overall, a lot of good signs for a prolonged tournament run.

[roywhite]

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=209977010

56.5% FG shooting against one of the best defenses in the country.

Justise the Swiss Army Knife -- 13 points, 12 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 blocks, 4 steals

Has Grayson Allen assumed the Daniel Ewing role for getting quick whistles?

[DBFAN]

I have seen some tweets that have referenced the sickness of the SDSU as food poisoning rather that stomach flu

[Billy Dat]

I am thrilled to get past the first weekend and move onto the Sweet 16. Win 31 was fantastic!

In both the Robert Morris game and this game, i thought we got a little lucky early when the opponent missed some very open and make-able early shots that could have given them an early boost. Getting up early in both games was important.

Jahlil has been playing at an extremely high level on offense. The last jump ball I remember him winning was Notre Dame in the ACCs so, please, keep losing them big fella. He was dominant in the first half. Justise also had his game face on and has been surging. I hope he keeps it up.

Until he got that lay-up off that in-bounds play about midway through the second half, I thought Tyus was having an off game, bothered by their size and missing some shots I thought he should make. After he got going with that lay-up, though, he started to percolate. For the second game in a row, Quinn hit a 3 that popped straight up off the backspin and fell in - good omens for good shooting games that carried through.

Very interesting that K went Grayson when we needed a spark, and I thought he gave us one. I feel comfortable when he is in the game at this point. I think Amile's PT is getting docked because K wants Justise at that 4 spot for most match-ups.

I don't think we played a lick of zone. The D was ok, they just aren't a good offensive team and they missed a lot of open looks. I did think our "ice" ball screen D was good.

A huge sequence was the SDSU steal, Justise block and then Cook corner 3. Grant Hill was inspired to say, "Sorry Shane, Justise Winslow may be the best defender Duke has ever had!" Whoa, G....is that rookie color man hyperbole or something he sees that we don't. Talk about high high praise.

Interesting that Kenny Smith says Justise calls him "Uncle Kenny". I wonder where that relationship started. Maybe Smith keeps a home in Houston since his Rockets days? Whatever, it's gonna be a big old homecoming, here's hoping it's not a distraction for Justise. Texas has been mighty good to our program..let's keep following the 2010 path (Charlotte, Houston, Indy).

[Duke76]

Fantastic win. Agree with those who say SDSU may have been afflicted by the bug given how badly they faded, though our offense and defense had something to do with that.

Jah was especially awesome. Really thought he took his game to another level today. His offense looked even more otherworldly than usual for a college post player, and though he had a couple of silly turnovers trying to run fastbreaks, it was a sign he was feeling good and loose.

Defensively Jah looked much more engaged, especially in the second half. He used to approach players coming downhill at him off a pick and roll so tentatively it was almost always an easy score for the opponent. Today he actively (and intelligently) confronted the players that tried to drive at him, with mostly excellent results.

I've commented frequently on how important it is for Justise to start strong, and when he got going in the first 5 minutes, my stress level dropped several orders of magnitude. He also had a superb game. Hope that going home for the Sweet 16 gets his game up even higher, rather than serving as a distraction.

Glad to see Tyus making some shots in the second half, because he's struggled finishing lately. As good as Justise, Quinn and Jah have been in carrying the offense, feel like Tyus and Matt will need to contribute more against a higher level of competition next weekend...especially with the rotation getting even shorter, if today is any indication.

Liked the adjustments K made in the second half after SDSU adjusted how they were guarding Jah and cut the lead to 7. Overall, a lot of good signs for a prolonged tournament run.

Interesting to me was Justise basically at the foul line looking for Jah as he started at top and then went low in the post for the pass...haven't really seen that wrinkle and is an additional way to get Jah the ball without the double team happening as easy

love this team, subs played well and Tyus had a good floor game I thought.

[Billy Dat]

100% from the line

When is the last time we shot 2 or fewer FTs in a game. Between that, and Jah going 2 for 2, it was certainly a bizarre day at the line. I like Jah's recent trend though.

[archand1]

Being at the game, The stat sheet don't tell the whole story of Matt's effectiveness. He was disruptive to SDSU's flow, and was relentless on D today. Very pleased with his performance in addition to others that have already been mentioned.

Also, a side note: I'm as guilty as anyone in obsessing over kenpom stats and how history of those stats help predict what to expect for the tournament. This year, however, it's hard to quantify such a dynamic team that seems to still be peaking. I'm trusting the old fashioned eye test from here on out.

[chrishoke]

Did you all notice Jah dramatically quickened his free throw routine? Awesome and long overdue.

[Rich]

Did you all notice Jah dramatically quickened his free throw routine? Awesome and long overdue.

No longer dribbles before shooting. That's worked well with others in the past.

[MCFinARL]

I am thrilled to get past the first weekend and move onto the Sweet 16. Win 31 was fantastic!

In both the Robert Morris game and this game, i thought we got a little lucky early when the opponent missed some very open and make-able early shots that could have given them an early boost. Getting up early in both games was important.

Jahlil has been playing at an extremely high level on offense. The last jump ball I remember him winning was Notre Dame in the ACCs so, please, keep losing them big fella. He was dominant in the first half. Justise also had his game face on and has been surging. I hope he keeps it up.

Until he got that lay-up off that in-bounds play about midway through the second half, I thought Tyus was having an off game, bothered by their size and missing some shots I thought he should make. After he got going with that lay-up, though, he started to percolate. For the second game in a row, Quinn hit a 3 that popped straight up off the backspin and fell in - good omens for good shooting games that carried through.

Very interesting that K went Grayson when we needed a spark, and I thought he gave us one. I feel comfortable when he is in the game at this point. I think Amile's PT is getting docked because K wants Justise at that 4 spot for most match-ups.

I don't think we played a lick of zone. The D was ok, they just aren't a good offensive team and they missed a lot of open looks. I did think our "ice" ball screen D was good.

A huge sequence was the SDSU steal, Justise block and then Cook corner 3. Grant Hill was inspired to say, "Sorry Shane, Justise Winslow may be the best defender Duke has ever had!" Whoa, G....is that rookie color man hyperbole or something he sees that we don't. Talk about high high praise.

Interesting that Kenny Smith says Justise calls him "Uncle Kenny". I wonder where that relationship started. Maybe Smith keeps a home in Houston since his Rockets days? Whatever, it's gonna be a big old homecoming, here's hoping it's not a distraction for Justise. Texas has been mighty good to our program..let's keep following the 2010 path (Charlotte, Houston, Indy).

Well, I hope we follow the 2010 path from now on, but the first couple of games in 2010 were in Jacksonville, not Charlotte.

[evrim]

I watched Utah against SFA in Portland. I thought it was the sloppiest game I have seen in a long time. Utah was not impressive at all.

[lotusland]

Nice to have a stress free opening weekend for a change. Since my glass is 1/10 empty I'll point out that Jah needs to work on his passing skills leading the break. If Tyus leaves next year and Jah stays, he probably won't be the answer at PG.

[_Gary]

Very interesting that K went Grayson when we needed a spark, and I thought he gave us one.

Glad to read that someone else besides me saw that. I had a little back and forth with another regular here who thought our run in the 2nd half when Grayson was in the game was completely coincidental. I thoroughly disagreed. Grayson subbed in for Matt, and I thought his style of play helped spark us even though I understand all the focus went to Justise and Jah. But my feeling was that Matt, while consistently superb on defense, was playing tentatively on the offensive end (and he wasn't the only one) during that early stretch of the 2nd half when SDSU made that nice run. Allen came in and really brought some much needed energy and aggressiveness on offense that I thought helped us a good bit.

I'd also note that Coach K confirmed something else I've taken a lot of flack for recently - Jah is finally healthy for the first time since the Carolina injury. He made that point clearly today, and it showed on the court Friday and this afternoon. He's now back to being himself and I think that increases our chances of contending for a Championship exponentially.

[Listen to Quants]

Nice to have a stress free opening weekend for a change. Since my glass is 1/10 empty I'll point out that Jah needs to work on his passing skills leading the break. If Tyus leaves next year and Jah stays, he probably won't be the answer at PG. Laughs. Reminds me of a the story of a report a pro scout filed on Larry Bird when Bird was in college. There was requirement that the report have an entry for "Biggest Weakness." Scout put in "suspect left-handed outside jump shot past 15 feet."

[Indoor66]

I am thrilled to get past the first weekend and move onto the Sweet 16. Win 31 was fantastic!

In both the Robert Morris game and this game, i thought we got a little lucky early when the opponent missed some very open and make-able early shots that could have given them an early boost. Getting up early in both games was important.

Jahlil has been playing at an extremely high level on offense. The last jump ball I remember him winning was Notre Dame in the ACCs so, please, keep losing them big fella. He was dominant in the first half. Justise also had his game face on and has been surging. I hope he keeps it up.

Until he got that lay-up off that in-bounds play about midway through the second half, I thought Tyus was having an off game, bothered by their size and missing some shots I thought he should make. After he got going with that lay-up, though, he started to percolate. For the second game in a row, Quinn hit a 3 that popped straight up off the backspin and fell in - good omens for good shooting games that carried through.

Very interesting that K went Grayson when we needed a spark, and I thought he gave us one. I feel comfortable when he is in the game at this point. I think Amile's PT is getting docked because K wants Justise at that 4 spot for most match-ups.

I don't think we played a lick of zone. The D was ok, they just aren't a good offensive team and they missed a lot of open looks. I did think our "ice" ball screen D was good.

A huge sequence was the SDSU steal, Justise block and then Cook corner 3. Grant Hill was inspired to say, "Sorry Shane, Justise Winslow may be the best defender Duke has ever had!" Whoa, G....is that rookie color man hyperbole or something he sees that we don't. Talk about high high praise.

Interesting that Kenny Smith says Justise calls him "Uncle Kenny". I wonder where that relationship started. Maybe Smith keeps a home in Houston since his Rockets days? Whatever, it's gonna be a big old homecoming, here's hoping it's not a distraction for Justise. Texas has been mighty good to our program..let's keep following the 2010 path (Charlotte, Houston, Indy).


What is that Gary Player said about luck - "The harder I practice, the luckier I get!"

[FerryFor50]

Glad to read that someone else besides me saw that. I had a little back and forth with another regular here who thought our run in the 2nd half when Grayson was in the game was completely coincidental. I thoroughly disagreed. Grayson subbed in for Matt, and I thought his style of play helped spark us even though I understand all the focus went to Justise and Jah. But my feeling was that Matt, while consistently superb on defense, was playing tentatively on the offensive end (and he wasn't the only one) during that early stretch of the 2nd half when SDSU made that nice run. Allen came in and really brought some much needed energy and aggressiveness on offense that I thought helped us a good bit.



I still think it was coincidental. Allen coming in wasn't the spark. It was Duke getting back to Winslow and Okafor and Duke forcing some turnovers. Allen had a nice runner, but also committed his 4th foul. He wasn't terribly aggressive on offense - he only attempted 2 shots. Matt wasn't tentative - if anything he was forcing shots. Allen was +5 for the game. Matt Jones was +17.

Allen likely will be the better player by next year, and is already better offensively, but Matt Jones is more important to the team success right now.

[camion]

A YouTube video illustrating the spark Justise adds when he turns it on.

Linky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjPxDOEdsX8&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

Also one of my favorite nerd videos ever.

[ICP]

We should get a Kenpom boost on defense... Offensive efficiency won't be as good as it should because of a lack of FT's. At the end of the broadcast they stated we've had a double digit lead for 61 of the 80 minutes of game time thus far.

Who cares about that, is that what you're rooting for when watching Duke, Kenpom boosts? How sad... Enjoy the game and the wins and stop obsessing about all the numbers. Or at least do it privately.

[rsvman]

Since Quinn and Grayson have apparently already been sick, is there a chance they will have some immunity against re-infection right now?

Potentially, yes. Immunity takes a bit of time to develop, and it doesn't last forever, but most people don't get reinfected with the same virus twice in a short period of time.

[rsvman]

I have seen some tweets that have referenced the sickness of the SDSU as food poisoning rather that stomach flu

It's a distinction without a difference, for the most part. Unless you consume rotten food, so-called food poisoning essentially means that you contracted the "stomach flu virus" from foodstuff instead of person-to-person. The way it works is that somebody just recovering from stomach flu works in food preparation. The virus gets into the food and then is consumed.
The illness is exactly the same and it is still transmissible thereafter from player to player.

[Furniture]

Who cares about that, is that what you're rooting for when watching Duke, Kenpom boosts? How sad... Enjoy the game and the wins and stop obsessing about all the numbers. Or at least do it privately.

That sounds very trollish. is it against the DBR rules to mention Kenpom then?

[Kedsy]

Who cares about that, is that what you're rooting for when watching Duke, Kenpom boosts? How sad... Enjoy the game and the wins and stop obsessing about all the numbers. Or at least do it privately.

Whoa. Lighten up, Francis.

[duke4ever19]

Who cares about that, is that what you're rooting for when watching Duke, Kenpom boosts? How sad... Enjoy the game and the wins and stop obsessing about all the numbers. Or at least do it privately.

I'm actually one of those people who loves the chat on this site about kenpom and other metrics.

I don't think Subzero would say that is why he/she watches the games (I doubt anyone would say that), but it does add a dimension to watching the sport that is fascinating for nerdy numbers people like me. :D

[_Gary]

I still think it was coincidental. Allen coming in wasn't the spark. It was Duke getting back to Winslow and Okafor and Duke forcing some turnovers. Allen had a nice runner, but also committed his 4th foul. He wasn't terribly aggressive on offense - he only attempted 2 shots. Matt wasn't tentative - if anything he was forcing shots. Allen was +5 for the game. Matt Jones was +17.

Allen likely will be the better player by next year, and is already better offensively, but Matt Jones is more important to the team success right now.

I'll rewatch the 2nd half tomorrow and post again. But my initial impressions were the following:

1) We were very lethargic on offense coming out for the 2nd half.

2) Matt, in particular, was tentative a couple of times on the offensive end of the floor, passing up a couple of shots.

3) When Matt went out and Grayson came in, our intensity picked up on the offensive end a bit. His two fouls during that stretch were both aggressive hustle fouls which seemed to have more of a positive, rather than a negative, impact on the team. And yes, he had a very nice drive and score under duress. Something I just don't see Matt doing.

Having said all that, I agree that Matt is more important to this year's team. His defense is fantastic and he does hit a three or two just about every game. But at times I still see him being a hindrance for us on offense with his tentative play and penchant for getting a layup or close in floater blocked. It's almost become a tradition at this point.

[subzero02]

Who cares about that, is that what you're rooting for when watching Duke, Kenpom boosts? How sad... Enjoy the game and the wins and stop obsessing about all the numbers. Or at least do it privately.

Who says I didn't enjoy the game? It was a spectacular effort by our team and I looked forward to seeing it reflected in kenpom's stats. Lots of people do care about the statistical analysis associated with our games; if you're not one of them, I suggest you ignore the posts that discuss it rather than criticize them.

Btw, we moved up 10 spots in defensive efficiency. We currently sit at 45th in the country... More importantly we passed unc.

[jv001]

No one has mentioned it but it looks like to me that Jahlil has stepped it up on defense in the past few games. Yesterday Coach K switched defensive assignments and put Jahlil on SDSU's best player(O'Brien ?). And to my surprise he did a good job of guarding him. I guess Coach K has asked Jah to pick it up on D and don't worry about foul trouble. GoDuke!

[wilson]

No one has mentioned it but it looks like to me that Jahlil has stepped it up on defense in the past few games. Yesterday Coach K switched defensive assignments and put Jahlil on SDSU's best player(O'Brien ?). And to my surprise he did a good job of guarding him. I guess Coach K has asked Jah to pick it up on D and don't worry about foul trouble. GoDuke!We noticed this at my viewing gathering as well. There were several sequences yesterday where Jah played some really solid, foul-free but close and physical defense. I thought the whole team defended quite well yesterday. Encouraging.

[elvis14]

No one has mentioned it but it looks like to me that Jahlil has stepped it up on defense in the past few games. Yesterday Coach K switched defensive assignments and put Jahlil on SDSU's best player(O'Brien ?). And to my surprise he did a good job of guarding him. I guess Coach K has asked Jah to pick it up on D and don't worry about foul trouble. GoDuke!

I noticed it and I think it makes a huge difference. When Jah plays good D we are much better team. When he doesn't play good D we get more Plumlee and that's an offense for defense tradeoff. When Jah plays good D we get great offense and great defense.

[Indoor66]

Maybe the defense is easier when the ankle is well.

[_Gary]

maybe the defense is easier when the ankle is well.

b-i-n-g-o. :)

[sagegrouse]

Maybe the defense is easier when the ankle is well.

Very good point. I also get the feeling that the staff has brought him along slowly, trying to teach him defense without fouling. We really do need him to stay on the floor. In addition, Jahlil played two-three zone almost exclusively at Whitney Young in Chicago. Any college defense is more complicated than the standard HS zone, and Duke's has become extremely complicated with both zone and man and variation.

[Billy Dat]

I still think it was coincidental. Allen coming in wasn't the spark. It was Duke getting back to Winslow and Okafor and Duke forcing some turnovers. Allen had a nice runner, but also committed his 4th foul. He wasn't terribly aggressive on offense - he only attempted 2 shots. Matt wasn't tentative - if anything he was forcing shots. Allen was +5 for the game. Matt Jones was +17.

Allen likely will be the better player by next year, and is already better offensively, but Matt Jones is more important to the team success right now.


I'll rewatch the 2nd half tomorrow and post again. But my initial impressions were the following:

1) We were very lethargic on offense coming out for the 2nd half.

2) Matt, in particular, was tentative a couple of times on the offensive end of the floor, passing up a couple of shots.

3) When Matt went out and Grayson came in, our intensity picked up on the offensive end a bit. His two fouls during that stretch were both aggressive hustle fouls which seemed to have more of a positive, rather than a negative, impact on the team. And yes, he had a very nice drive and score under duress. Something I just don't see Matt doing.

Having said all that, I agree that Matt is more important to this year's team. His defense is fantastic and he does hit a three or two just about every game. But at times I still see him being a hindrance for us on offense with his tentative play and penchant for getting a layup or close in floater blocked. It's almost become a tradition at this point.

What I noticed was that the SDSU backcourt was doing a great job of containing our guards and that the other 3 SDSU players were essentially able to play 3 on 2 with Jah and Justise. Bringing Grayson in for a spell, and basically telling him to be aggressive, opened things up a bit for everyone else. I like that we can now count on using him this way, off the bench, because it gives us a different look, and also starts planting seeds for him to be a monster next year.

[killerleft]

That sounds very trollish. is it against the DBR rules to mention Kenpom then?

Shoot, no! That's the best kennel in the Triangle, right?:p

[roywhite]

What I noticed was that the SDSU backcourt was doing a great job of containing our guards and that the other 3 SDSU players were essentially able to play 3 on 2 with Jah and Justise. Bringing Grayson in for a spell, and basically telling him to be aggressive, opened things up a bit for everyone else. I like that we can now count on using him this way, off the bench, because it gives us a different look, and also starts planting seeds for him to be a monster next year.

Yes, good points. Tyus was not scoring much, due to the good defense and his 3-9 shooting, but he continued to show his maturity and basketball IQ by playing an excellent floor game with 6 assists, 2 turnovers, and 2 steals. Quinn still finds ways to score; he's dynamite in transition, either getting out early on an opponent's turnover and finishing at the rim, or spotting up for a 3 (the blocked shot by Justise leading to Tyus rushing upcourt and finding Quinn in the corner for a high-arching swish 3-pointer was simply beautiful basketball).

And, with Okafor operating as well as we've seen him down low, the guards with good all-around games, just how does an opponent guard Justise Winslow?

[roywhite]

That sounds very trollish. is it against the DBR rules to mention Kenpom then?


I'm actually one of those people who loves the chat on this site about kenpom and other metrics.

I don't think Subzero would say that is why he/she watches the games (I doubt anyone would say that), but it does add a dimension to watching the sport that is fascinating for nerdy numbers people like me. :D


Who says I didn't enjoy the game? It was a spectacular effort by our team and I looked forward to seeing it reflected in kenpom's stats. Lots of people do care about the statistical analysis associated with our games; if you're not one of them, I suggest you ignore the posts that discuss it rather than criticize them.

Btw, we moved up 10 spots in defensive efficiency. We currently sit at 45th in the country... More importantly we passed unc.

Good thing we don't have a "kenpom" drinking game set up for the board. I'd hate to see our adjusted sobriety ratio. ;)

[FerryFor50]

What I noticed was that the SDSU backcourt was doing a great job of containing our guards and that the other 3 SDSU players were essentially able to play 3 on 2 with Jah and Justise. Bringing Grayson in for a spell, and basically telling him to be aggressive, opened things up a bit for everyone else. I like that we can now count on using him this way, off the bench, because it gives us a different look, and also starts planting seeds for him to be a monster next year.

Eh, I seem to remember the defense leading to offense a few times. Transition baskets negated the defense. Winslow just decided to take over. But I'd have to see that run again to be sure.

[FerryFor50]

What I noticed was that the SDSU backcourt was doing a great job of containing our guards and that the other 3 SDSU players were essentially able to play 3 on 2 with Jah and Justise. Bringing Grayson in for a spell, and basically telling him to be aggressive, opened things up a bit for everyone else. I like that we can now count on using him this way, off the bench, because it gives us a different look, and also starts planting seeds for him to be a monster next year.

In lieu of TV replay, I went with the Yahoo play by play.

The Duke run began around the 12 minute mark. Cook hit a 3 to bring the lead back to 10 after Pope hit one to cut it to 7.


12:41
S. Diego St. Malik Pope makes a 25-foot three-pointer (Lead is at 7)
12:14
Duke Quinn Cook misses a 26-foot three-pointer
12:14
S. Diego St. Trey Kell defensive rebound
12:04
S. Diego St. Trey Kell misses a 13-foot jumper
12:04
Duke Justise Winslow defensive rebound
11:57
Duke Quinn Cook makes a 23-foot three-pointer (Lead back to 10; K calls a timeout to reinforce that this game isn't over)
11:55
30 sec timeout - Grayson enters the game
11:34
S. Diego St. Malik Pope misses a 26-foot three-pointer (I believe Winslow had switched to Pope instead of having Okafor on him)
11:34
S. Diego St. Winston Shepard offensive rebound
11:33
Duke Personal foul on Grayson Allen (Bad foul by Allen - did not box out and swiped at the ball. Would Matt have gotten the board?)
11:33
TV timeout
11:14
S. Diego St. Matt Shrigley misses a 25-foot three-pointer
11:14
Duke Tyus Jones defensive rebound
10:57
Duke Justise Winslow dunks the ball (lead up to 12)
10:34
S. Diego St. JJ O'Brien misses a layup (Okafor defending)
10:34
Duke Justise Winslow defensive rebound
10:12
Duke Grayson Allen makes a 6-foot jumper (nice move by Allen; Matt likely would not have hit that shot - lead at 14)
10:04
30 sec timeout
9:47
Duke Justise Winslow steal
9:47
S. Diego St. Malik Pope turnover
9:44
Duke Layup by Tyus Jones (lead at 16)
9:31
S. Diego St. Aqeel Quinn misses a 12-foot jumper
9:31
Duke Quinn Cook defensive rebound
9:03
Duke Justise Winslow misses a 20-foot jumper
9:03
S. Diego St. Winston Shepard defensive rebound
9:03
Duke Personal foul on Grayson Allen (another Allen foul)
8:45
Duke Justise Winslow steal
8:45
S. Diego St. Winston Shepard turnover
8:43
S. Diego St. Personal foul on Aqeel Quinn
8:19
S. Diego St. Personal foul on Skylar Spencer
7:49
S. Diego St. Personal foul on Skylar Spencer
7:49
TV timeout (Matt Jones subs back in)
7:49
Duke Jahlil Okafor hits a free throw (first FTs of the game)
7:49
Duke Jahlil Okafor hits a free throw (Lead at 18)
7:28
Duke Tyus Jones steal
7:28
S. Diego St. JJ O'Brien turnover
6:50
Duke Justise Winslow misses a 25-foot three-pointer
6:50
S. Diego St. Dwayne Polee II defensive rebound
6:43
Duke Personal foul on Justise Winslow
6:43
S. Diego St. Aqeel Quinn hits a free throw
6:43
S. Diego St. Aqeel Quinn hits a free throw (lead back to 16)
6:11
Duke Matt Jones makes a 23-foot three-pointer (Lead at 19)

So a few things:

- The Duke "run" was essentially a 6-0 run.
- Allen scored 2 points and committed 2 fouls.
- Most of the run were missed SDSU shots by guys guarded by Okafor, Cook or Winslow or turnovers created by Winslow (he had 2 steals and 2 defensive rebounds) or Tyus Jones.
- Matt comes in and hits a 3 to answer the first points by SDSU in nearly 6 minutes.

Allen had little to do with the run, as I see it. He had a nice layup, but committed 2 fouls and never really had to defend his guy, as other guys tried to score.

Just coincidence that the run came with Allen in.

[jimsumner]

In lieu of TV replay, I went with the Yahoo play by play.

The Duke run began around the 12 minute mark. Cook hit a 3 to bring the lead back to 10 after Pope hit one to cut it to 7.



So a few things:

- The Duke "run" was essentially a 6-0 run.
- Allen scored 2 points and committed 2 fouls.
- Most of the run were missed SDSU shots by guys guarded by Okafor, Cook or Winslow or turnovers created by Winslow (he had 2 steals and 2 defensive rebounds) or Tyus Jones.
- Matt comes in and hits a 3 to answer the first points by SDSU in nearly 6 minutes.

Allen had little to do with the run, as I see it. He had a nice layup, but committed 2 fouls and never really had to defend his guy, as other guys tried to score.

Just coincidence that the run came with Allen in.

Whoever is estimating the distances on these 3's has a vivid imagination.

[Olympic Fan]

In lieu of TV replay, I went with the Yahoo play by play.

The Duke run began around the 12 minute mark. Cook hit a 3 to bring the lead back to 10 after Pope hit one to cut it to 7.



So a few things:

- The Duke "run" was essentially a 6-0 run. - Allen scored 2 points and committed 2 fouls.
- Most of the run were missed SDSU shots by guys guarded by Okafor, Cook or Winslow or turnovers created by Winslow (he had 2 steals and 2 defensive rebounds) or Tyus Jones.
- Matt comes in and hits a 3 to answer the first points by SDSU in nearly 6 minutes.

Allen had little to do with the run, as I see it. He had a nice layup, but committed 2 fouls and never really had to defend his guy, as other guys tried to score.

Just coincidence that the run came with Allen in.

Sorry math is not my best subject, but when I track the play-by-play, it looks like it went from 44-37 after the Pope 3-pointer with 12:42 to play to 55-37 before Aqeel Quibb nade his two free throws.

That's an 11-0 run, not a 6-0 run ... and after the two free throws, we went on a 9-0 run to make it 64-39. So all-in-all, a 20-2 run.

[FerryFor50]

Sorry math is not my best subject, but when I track the play-by-play, it looks like it went from 44-37 after the Pope 3-pointer with 12:42 to play to 55-37 before Aqeel Quibb nade his two free throws.

That's an 11-0 run, not a 6-0 run ... and after the two free throws, we went on a 9-0 run to make it 64-39. So all-in-all, a 20-2 run.

I was focusing on the notion that Grayson Allen's insertion into the game somehow triggered the Duke run.

Unless I'm mistaken, Allen didn't enter until after the Cook 3 which made it 47-37. (The play by play didn't really offer that info)

Allen exited before Okafor hit his FTs.

So Allen was on the floor for 6 of the 11 points of the 11-0 run, if I have the times he was inserted/removed from the lineup correct.

If not, and if he was indeed on the floor for all 11 points of the run, my original point holds - he didn't really have a ton to do with the run and it was coincidental that he was on the floor for the run.

[MarkD83]

The difficulty with attributing a Duke run to any one individual is that Duke is starting to play very good team defense and the stats are dominated by offensive metrics. In the other thread folks are worrying about Amile's contributions and in this thread trying to assess Grayson's role. For Amile he does the little things like boxing out, making the right decision on in-bounds plays, setting the right pick at the right time...all the things that do not show up in the box score. The fact that his minutes are going down is perhaps the only stat that would concern me.

As far as Grayson goes, he brought a little adrenaline to the team. Yes that resulted in two fouls but he was not afraid to mix it up and if a bench player is not afraid to mix it up then the starters get that same vibe. So I would not give Grayson "all of the credit" for the run. However, I would give him some props because his energy level did seem to pick up everyone else. I have to believe Justise saw Grayson' drive and thought, if he can do that I might as well start doing that as well.

[Kfanarmy]

I was focusing on the notion that Grayson Allen's insertion into the game somehow triggered the Duke run.

Unless I'm mistaken, Allen didn't enter until after the Cook 3 which made it 47-37. (The play by play didn't really offer that info)

Allen exited before Okafor hit his FTs.

So Allen was on the floor for 6 of the 11 points of the 11-0 run, if I have the times he was inserted/removed from the lineup correct.

If not, and if he was indeed on the floor for all 11 points of the run, my original point holds - he didn't really have a ton to do with the run and it was coincidental that he was on the floor for the run.

You don't think he is contributing? Who would you have put in in his place, to contribute more to the 11-0 run? If one of the non-scholarship players were out there, does the run still happen? Just trying to figure out what your intent is on this point.

[FerryFor50]

The difficulty with attributing a Duke run to any one individual is that Duke is starting to play very good team defense and the stats are dominated by offensive metrics. In the other thread folks are worrying about Amile's contributions and in this thread trying to assess Grayson's role. For Amile he does the little things like boxing out, making the right decision on in-bounds plays, setting the right pick at the right time...all the things that do not show up in the box score. The fact that his minutes are going down is perhaps the only stat that would concern me.

As far as Grayson goes, he brought a little adrenaline to the team. Yes that resulted in two fouls but he was not afraid to mix it up and if a bench player is not afraid to mix it up then the starters get that same vibe. So I would not give Grayson "all of the credit" for the run. However, I would give him some props because his energy level did seem to pick up everyone else. I have to believe Justise saw Grayson' drive and thought, if he can do that I might as well start doing that as well.

Just for some background...

It was insinuated in the in-game thread that replacing Matt Jones with Grayson Allen somehow was why Duke went on a run - but Duke was already at the start of its run with the Cook 3.

I took issue with it because it was implied that somehow, Matt Jones was responsible for Duke's woes on offense, rather than the overall team effort on offense and defense.

Allen certainly played with some intensity, but he committed some bad fouls (and was whistled for one or two that were questionable). Those fouls could have easily resulted in points at the FT line for SDSU and killed any run. I don't think he was mixing it up any more than Jones. In fact, I'd argue he wasn't mixing it up as much due to not properly boxing out and giving up an offensive board that resulted in a foul.

My point was that the run was triggered by Winslow and Okafor on defense and offense. I could have replaced Matt Jones in the lineup and we might have seen the same 6-0 run.

I'll also re-state: I think Allen is terrific and is getting better. He's becoming a dangerous offensive player that is still learning defense. But I don't think he brings more overall to the table than Matt Jones right now. Judging by the minutes allocation by K, I'd think he agrees.

Hate to de-rail the thread where we celebrate the team's win with a nitpick, but I just wanted to clarify the point and provide some evidence backing up my thoughts. Will gladly drop this now. :)

[CDu]

Whoever is estimating the distances on these 3's has a vivid imagination.

Yeah, I'd say that none of those 3s was really longer than 23 feet. It's almost like they got the college 3pt line confused with the NBA line.

[FerryFor50]

You don't think he is contributing? Who would you have put in in his place, to contribute more to the 11-0 run? If one of the non-scholarship players were out there, does the run still happen? Just trying to figure out what your intent is on this point.

Where did I say he wasn't contributing? Where did I say he shouldn't play?

Why does me disputing that Allen was single-handedly responsible for "bringing the team some energy" get morphed into me being anti-Allen?

[vick]

Where did I say he wasn't contributing? Where did I say he shouldn't play?

Why does me disputing that Allen was single-handedly responsible for "bringing the team some energy" get morphed into me being anti-Allen?

Yeah, I don't think anything you've said is remotely anti-Allen. In my experience, fans are overly prone to crediting bench players when things go well if they are on the floor regardless of how much impact they actually had (the more passionate "play Marshall more" crowd seems particularly prone to this from what I've seen, where every three a guard makes was somehow the result of "energy" he brought into the game).

[FerryFor50]

Yeah, I don't think anything you've said is remotely anti-Allen. In my experience, fans are overly prone to crediting bench players when things go well if they are on the floor regardless of how much impact they actually had (the more passionate "play Marshall more" crowd seems particularly prone to this from what I've seen, where every three a guard makes was somehow the result of "energy" he brought into the game).

Yea, similarly I've seen another trend.

1) Blame Matt Jones for everything (which, yes, he does some boneheaded stuff)
2) Deify Grayson Allen

Both are extremes that have some basis of truth, but the reality lies somewhere closer to the other end of the spectrum.

[sagegrouse]

Yea, similarly I've seen another trend.

1) Blame Matt Jones for everything (which, yes, he does some boneheaded stuff)
2) Deify Grayson Allen

Both are extremes that have some basis of truth, but the reality lies somewhere closer to the other end of the spectrum.

I was waiting for next year to ask this question, but I can't contain myself: "Who's gonna play George Burns opposite the returning guard, Gracie Allen?"

[The Gordog]

In lieu of TV replay, I went with the Yahoo play by play.

The Duke run began around the 12 minute mark. Cook hit a 3 to bring the lead back to 10 after Pope hit one to cut it to 7.







12:41
S. Diego St. Malik Pope makes a 25-foot three-pointer (Lead is at 7)
12:14
Duke Quinn Cook misses a 26-foot three-pointer
12:14
S. Diego St. Trey Kell defensive rebound
12:04
S. Diego St. Trey Kell misses a 13-foot jumper
12:04
Duke Justise Winslow defensive rebound
11:57
Duke Quinn Cook makes a 23-foot three-pointer (Lead back to 10; K calls a timeout to reinforce that this game isn't over)
11:55
30 sec timeout - Grayson enters the game
11:34
S. Diego St. Malik Pope misses a 26-foot three-pointer (I believe Winslow had switched to Pope instead of having Okafor on him)
11:34
S. Diego St. Winston Shepard offensive rebound
11:33
Duke Personal foul on Grayson Allen (Bad foul by Allen - did not box out and swiped at the ball. Would Matt have gotten the board?)
11:33
TV timeout
11:14
S. Diego St. Matt Shrigley misses a 25-foot three-pointer
11:14
Duke Tyus Jones defensive rebound
10:57
Duke Justise Winslow dunks the ball (lead up to 12)
10:34
S. Diego St. JJ O'Brien misses a layup (Okafor defending)
10:34
Duke Justise Winslow defensive rebound
10:12
Duke Grayson Allen makes a 6-foot jumper (nice move by Allen; Matt likely would not have hit that shot - lead at 14)
10:04
30 sec timeout
9:47
Duke Justise Winslow steal
9:47
S. Diego St. Malik Pope turnover
9:44
Duke Layup by Tyus Jones (lead at 16)
9:31
S. Diego St. Aqeel Quinn misses a 12-foot jumper
9:31
Duke Quinn Cook defensive rebound
9:03
Duke Justise Winslow misses a 20-foot jumper
9:03
S. Diego St. Winston Shepard defensive rebound
9:03
Duke Personal foul on Grayson Allen (another Allen foul)
8:45
Duke Justise Winslow steal
8:45
S. Diego St. Winston Shepard turnover
8:43
S. Diego St. Personal foul on Aqeel Quinn
8:19
S. Diego St. Personal foul on Skylar Spencer
7:49
S. Diego St. Personal foul on Skylar Spencer
7:49
TV timeout (Matt Jones subs back in)
7:49
Duke Jahlil Okafor hits a free throw (first FTs of the game)
7:49
Duke Jahlil Okafor hits a free throw (Lead at 18)
7:28
Duke Tyus Jones steal
7:28
S. Diego St. JJ O'Brien turnover
6:50
Duke Justise Winslow misses a 25-foot three-pointer
6:50
S. Diego St. Dwayne Polee II defensive rebound
6:43
Duke Personal foul on Justise Winslow
6:43
S. Diego St. Aqeel Quinn hits a free throw
6:43
S. Diego St. Aqeel Quinn hits a free throw (lead back to 16)
6:11
Duke Matt Jones makes a 23-foot three-pointer (Lead at 19)


So a few things:

- The Duke "run" was essentially a 6-0 run.
- Allen scored 2 points and committed 2 fouls.
- Most of the run were missed SDSU shots by guys guarded by Okafor, Cook or Winslow or turnovers created by Winslow (he had 2 steals and 2 defensive rebounds) or Tyus Jones.
- Matt comes in and hits a 3 to answer the first points by SDSU in nearly 6 minutes.

Allen had little to do with the run, as I see it. He had a nice layup, but committed 2 fouls and never really had to defend his guy, as other guys tried to score.

Just coincidence that the run came with Allen in.

Re: "11:33
Duke Personal foul on Grayson Allen (Bad foul by Allen - did not box out and swiped at the ball. Would Matt have gotten the board?)"

I watched this play 5 times. Allen was clearly fouled, not the other way 'round. The SDSU player nearly pushed him over to 'get position' and he (Allen) reached in to try to keep his balance as much as anything else. I hate to say it but Allen is the new Shav, and biased refs (regardless of their own race) who think a white guy just can't make the athletic play will be whistling him for all kinds of phantom BS as long as he wears the Duke uniform. *Sigh* might as well get used to it.

[roywhite]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXQtYCDc8uA&feature=youtu.be

Great plays -- #2 and #1 are right up there if we're ranking plays of the year

Great to see the young guys enjoying the tournament experience.

[Billy Dat]

Scroll down mid page for Quinn Cook Stankonia
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25119717/look-the-best-photos-from-the-first-weekend-of-the-ncaa-tournament

[Kfanarmy]

Where did I say he wasn't contributing? Where did I say he shouldn't play?

Why does me disputing that Allen was single-handedly responsible for "bringing the team some energy" get morphed into me being anti-Allen?

mehhhh. My read of your earlier comment was a dismissal of Allen's efforts. I didn't see anyone saying Allen single handedly did anything but give a spark to what had been a bit of a stagnant effort for a bit, but you're going a long way to discount that...perhaps just a misimpression.

[jv001]

Scroll down mid page for Quinn Cook Stankonia
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25119717/look-the-best-photos-from-the-first-weekend-of-the-ncaa-tournament

Quinn with the "Walking Dead" face, :cool: Just keep making those 3s Mr. Cook. GoDuke!

[FerryFor50]

mehhhh. My read of your earlier comment was a dismissal of Allen's efforts. I didn't see anyone saying Allen single handedly did anything but give a spark to what had been a bit of a stagnant effort for a bit, but you're going a long way to discount that...perhaps just a misimpression.

It was here:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?35640-MBB-Duke-vs-San-Diego-St-NCAA-R32-%281440-EDT-CBS%29-Pregame-Ingame-thread&p=792531#post792531

And then carried over to this thread here:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?35653-MBB-Duke-68-San-Diego-State-49-Postgame-Thread&p=792705#post792705

[flyingdutchdevil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXQtYCDc8uA&feature=youtu.be

Great plays -- #2 and #1 are right up there if we're ranking plays of the year

Great to see the young guys enjoying the tournament experience.

#2 highlights the unselfishness of this group. #1 provides a glimpse of the best of 3 of our 4 players: Justise with the uber athletic play, Tyus with the beautiful pass, and Cook with the 3pt shot. Ideally, we'd want Jah to have an easy two to highlight all four players, but that means that Cook misses the shot ;)

[DukeHLM'13]

On a totally different subject, and one that may have been discussed elsewhere before...

Does it look to anyone else like Justise travels every time that he takes it through traffic on the break? I keep waiting for the refs to call it, but they haven't yet.

I know that's a play that happens all the time in the NBA, but I thought they called that a travel at least as often as not in college.

[Tripping William]

#2 highlights the unselfishness of this group. #1 provides a glimpse of the best of 3 of our 4 players: Justise with the uber athletic play, Tyus with the beautiful pass, and Cook with the 3pt shot. Ideally, we'd want Jah to have an easy two to highlight all four players, but that means that Cook misses the shot ;)

The only thing missing from the video was a shot of K just exploding up off the bench after Highlight #1. He was all kinds of fired up after Quinn hit that 3-ball.

[gus]

On a totally different subject, and one that may have been discussed elsewhere before...

Does it look to anyone else like Justise travels every time that he takes it through traffic on the break? I keep waiting for the refs to call it, but they haven't yet.

I know that's a play that happens all the time in the NBA, but I thought they called that a travel at least as often as not in college.

Not that I can recall. Find a clip, and let's have a look.

[jv001]

I don't think we should discredit either player. Matt plays very good defense and is a streaky shooter. Grayson is a good shooter who will only get better with more playing time and is a pretty good defender in his own right. Both are essential to our success this season. I think in the past few games, Coach K was quick to get Grayson into the game when Matt's host wasn't falling. SDSU was giving him the three and he wasn't on. However after a few minutes on the bench, he came in and hit a three to expand Duke's lead. In some ways, Matt and Amile are similar. They play good defense and play hard. But they aren't great contributors to the offense. Matt can get hot but with his shooting form, I don't think he'll ever be consistent. That's just my take on the subject. GoDuke!

[mr. synellinden]

On a totally different subject, and one that may have been discussed elsewhere before...

Does it look to anyone else like Justise travels every time that he takes it through traffic on the break? I keep waiting for the refs to call it, but they haven't yet.

I know that's a play that happens all the time in the NBA, but I thought they called that a travel at least as often as not in college.

Well, it certainly looked that way to Billy Raf on Winslow's coast-to-coast drive against SDSU. He spent quite a few breaths questioning the number of steps he took on that play, but ultimately went back to praising him for his all-around skills and ability to get to the basket. For those who think many announcers don't like Duke, there was a lot of love coming from Nantz and Raftery this weekend, and I'm sure that will continue next weekend - hopefully for two games.

[FerryFor50]

Matt can get hot but with his shooting form, I don't think he'll ever be consistent. That's just my take on the subject. GoDuke!

Is 38% consistent?

4902

Matt's issue is more from 2. He takes some bad shots inside the arc.

Grayson is more effective inside the arc. Matt is more effective from 3 (for now).

Sure, Allen's shot *looks* better, but I am interested in results. Function over form!

[roywhite]

On a totally different subject, and one that may have been discussed elsewhere before...

Does it look to anyone else like Justise travels every time that he takes it through traffic on the break? I keep waiting for the refs to call it, but they haven't yet.

I know that's a play that happens all the time in the NBA, but I thought they called that a travel at least as often as not in college.

No, he doesn't travel every time....but I'd say he does travel half the time on those plays.

Perhaps, the refs stop and admire the plays instead of blowing the whistle...they are quite nice to see. ;)

[jacone21]

The only thing missing from the video was a shot of K just exploding up off the bench after Highlight #1. He was all kinds of fired up after Quinn hit that 3-ball.

I was too! I was watching in the family room about 90 seconds behind real-time on the DVR. My wife was in the master bedroom watching in real time. After that shot, I kept yelling, "Woooooo! Woooooo!" like Nature Boy Ric Flair.

Finally, she came out to the family room and asked my why I was getting so excited over a commercial.

http://media0.giphy.com/media/BihhxoYNcnAY0/200.gif

[FerryFor50]

No, he doesn't travel every time....but I'd say he does travel half the time on those plays.

Perhaps, the refs stop and admire the plays instead of blowing the whistle...they are quite nice to see. ;)

Psh. It's a crab dribble.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpQBD672HkQ

[Kedsy]

On a totally different subject, and one that may have been discussed elsewhere before...

Does it look to anyone else like Justise travels every time that he takes it through traffic on the break? I keep waiting for the refs to call it, but they haven't yet.

I know that's a play that happens all the time in the NBA, but I thought they called that a travel at least as often as not in college.

Looks to me like a "Euro step," made famous by Manu Ginobili. Some people think it looks like a travel, but it's a generally accepted legit move in both the NBA and international play. (And, since I don't think Justise has ever been called for it, I guess it's generally accepted in college ball too.)

[Kedsy]

Is 38% consistent?

Since November 30, Matt is hitting only 33.8% of his three-point shots (in 80 attempts), after hitting 10 for 17 (58.8%) on threes in our first six games of the season. So, without having any desire to get back into an argument about sample size and random fluctuation, I'd say, no, it isn't consistent.

[_Gary]

mehhhh. My read of your earlier comment was a dismissal of Allen's efforts. I didn't see anyone saying Allen single handedly did anything but give a spark to what had been a bit of a stagnant effort for a bit, but you're going a long way to discount that...perhaps just a misimpression.

That's the way I was reading his comments as well. And my guess is he was reading too much into my comments in the sense that he thought I was calling for Matt's head or something. I wasn't.

These will be my final comments on the Matt/Grayson SDSU debate and then I'm putting the game to bed and moving on.

If you watch Matt's play early in the second half you'll see a sequence that sums up what I'm getting at with him being a bit tentative on the offensive end. It was about 30 seconds into the half where he made a great play to snag an offensive rebound and then pass it out to Justise. He then positions himself for an easy bucket and actually calls for the ball with both hands ready to receive a pass back. Justise makes the correct play and gets him the ball right back for what should have been an easy put back by going up quickly. Rafferty even says "pretty" as the pass is made in anticipation of an easy bucket. But Matt hesitates and allows #20 to get to him and instead of going up dribbles under the basket where I thought he was then going for what would probably have been an easy reverse layup. Yet again he hesitates and instead passes the ball to Jah - who is NOT in a position to shoot and then is forced to take an awkward shot that misses. A minute or so later Matt then takes a three that is somewhat contested and misses that one as well. And there are other plays I could point out but I'm not going to belabor this. Bottom line is I feel at times he's hesitant on the offensive end of the floor and it hurts the team. And as has been well documented, it's almost tradition for him to get one of his layups or shots in the lane blocked. Again, often this is because he doesn't go strong.

On the other hand, Grayson has no such issue. He may be too aggressive on the offensive and defensive ends of the court at times, but yesterday I felt his energy and aggression was a great compliment during the decisive run. And at least two of the foul calls on him yesterday were bogus as all get out. He definitely seems to be the Duke guy now that gets called for anything. Once more, another Duke tradition. Or so it seems.

Ferry and I simply see this differently. I doubt we are as far apart as it may seem. But where he tended to focus on Matt yesterday, I focused on Grayson. The reality is probably some where in the middle. But I refuse to accept the proposition that the run yesterday would have been exactly the same even if Grayson hadn't been in the game. Intangibles, like energy and hustle plays, makes a difference that stats can't measure. I'll always trust my eyes first and foremost, and they told me the insertion of Allen for MJones yesterday in the 2nd half was a positive and helped the team.

Done. Peace. Go Duke!

[Hingeknocker]

Is 38% consistent?

4902

Matt's issue is more from 2. He takes some bad shots inside the arc.

Grayson is more effective inside the arc. Matt is more effective from 3 (for now).

Sure, Allen's shot *looks* better, but I am interested in results. Function over form!

Matt shows glimpses of being able to drive to the rim and finish, but he seems just as likely to take and miss a bad shot, than actually finish. As evidence, his 2PT FG% is at 42.5%, while Allen's is a healthier 51.3%. That puts Allen's trajectory a little higher long term, but for this year's team if Matt can focus on being that D-and-3 guy (to steal an NBA term), he's a tremendous asset and exactly what this team needs to stretch the floor.

OTOH - why are we even talking about any of this, when we have a 100% 3PT shooter on our team? Get that man the ball and let him fire away!

[_Gary]

Looks to me like a "Euro step," made famous by Manu Ginobili. Some people think it looks like a travel, but it's a generally accepted legit move in both the NBA and international play. (And, since I don't think Justise has ever been called for it, I guess it's generally accepted in college ball too.)

That's what I've been thinking as well ("Euro step"). And it has been allowed consistently in the NBA and international game for some time now, so I see no issues with Justise using it at this point. Heck, I remember Jeff Capel creating the "jump stop" move that I thought for sure he get whistled on during the '94 title run, but it was allowed as well.

[Saratoga2]

I don't think we should discredit either player. Matt plays very good defense and is a streaky shooter. Grayson is a good shooter who will only get better with more playing time and is a pretty good defender in his own right. Both are essential to our success this season. I think in the past few games, Coach K was quick to get Grayson into the game when Matt's host wasn't falling. SDSU was giving him the three and he wasn't on. However after a few minutes on the bench, he came in and hit a three to expand Duke's lead. In some ways, Matt and Amile are similar. They play good defense and play hard. But they aren't great contributors to the offense. Matt can get hot but with his shooting form, I don't think he'll ever be consistent. That's just my take on the subject. GoDuke!

My take is both have talents which can help the team succeed. Matt is taller, longer and heavier (probably stronger) and knows how to use those characteristics defensively. I don't think he is as quick nor has the hops that Grayson has and I think his shot remains unconventional and likely inconsistent. Those reduce his ability to score. Matt could improve his shot in the off season which might make him more effective offensively but will not get quicker of gain more hops so he has to go with his strengths.

Grayson is somewhat smaller and he is less experienced but does have very good hops and quickness and he has good ball control and his shot is good. He has been getting called for fouls which coach K has said limits his PT. His defense is fairly good and his offense could be outstanding as he gains experience. Right now he can help the team and is likely to improve going into next season.

I diidn't see anyone mentioning MP3, who I thought had one of the poorer games by a Duke player. He was running to help on players in the lane while leaving the net completely unprotected. He was getting outquicked or out thought on rebounds. While other players had effective games MP3 didn't in my opinion.

[Mal]

Looks to me like a "Euro step," made famous by Manu Ginobili. Some people think it looks like a travel, but it's a generally accepted legit move in both the NBA and international play. (And, since I don't think Justise has ever been called for it, I guess it's generally accepted in college ball too.)

The Euro step's not (if done correctly) a travel, because the player jumps from the second step. They usually don't jump very high from it because of the change of direction and often they end up jumping off the "wrong" foot for a layup. But, technically, it's legal; I think the awkwardness of the body angle and footing just makes it look like it must be traveling at full speed. [This is all not to say that NBA refs don't look the other way on Euro steps with an extra step the same way they do in all sorts of other circumstances. I wouldn't know. I'm just saying that, when executed properly, it's no different than any other dribbling layup situation where you plant your second step and go up.]

What Justice did on that coast to coast finish was not a Euro step. He just straight up took three steps after he finished bouncing the ball. His last dribble was to change direction at the 3-point line and go left around a defender; then he picked up the dribble and went right-left-jump off the right foot for a layup in a straight line. I've definitely noticed this a couple times this season from Winslow without a whistle, not that I'm complaining.

[FerryFor50]

Since November 30, Matt is hitting only 33.8% of his three-point shots (in 80 attempts), after hitting 10 for 17 (58.8%) on threes in our first six games of the season. So, without having any desire to get back into an argument about sample size and random fluctuation, I'd say, no, it isn't consistent.

Is "since Nov 30" the official barometer?

If that's the case, then Grayson Allen is also hitting 33% (12-36) since Nov 30.

Yes, I understand Allen hasn't taken as many shots. So let's look at when Allen started playing more - right around the ND game on 2/7.

Since then, Allen has gone 12-28 (42.8%)

Jones has gone 19-48 (39.5%)

Allen has been better since he has been playing more, but not by a ton. And Jones has been plenty consistent at 39.5% since 2/7. Sure, Allen plays fewer minutes, but that could help him - he doesn't get as fatigued over the course of the game. Or it could hurt him, as he doesn't get into a rhythm. Allen shot fewer total threes, but he takes more per minute (.175 3s per minute played) than Jones (.133 3s per minute played).

Allen would probably have played even more minutes if he could stay out of foul trouble.

[Kedsy]

Is "since Nov 30" the official barometer?

No, it's not "official," nor does it have to be to make my point. I used that timeframe to make the point that citing his season percentage of 38% to illustrate his consistency (as you did in your earlier post) is a tad misleading, since Matt arrived at that percentage by hitting everything for six games and then shooting 34% over the vast majority of the season, which I would argue isn't consistent at all (or if it is consistent, then it was a brief hot streak and then consistently mediocre).

Also, another poster may have been comparing Grayson to Matt, but I'm not. I'm perfectly fine with Matt playing two and a half times as many minutes as Grayson right now. I just don't think Matt's a "consistent" 38% three-point shooter, that's all.