NBA, NCAA, NABC propose moving draft withdrawal date to late May

[vick]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12459854/proposal-nba-ncaa-nabc-move-draft-withdrawal-date

IMO, a shockingly logical proposal.

[bob blue devil]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12459854/proposal-nba-ncaa-nabc-move-draft-withdrawal-date

IMO, a shockingly logical proposal.

Very interesting.

Some potentially interesting game theory on the feedback provided by the teams... There may be some perverse incentives. And who gets to make the decision on invitations? More shenanigan risk.

Interesting point around the possibility of kids not signing with an agent until after getting feedback from the camp to preserve eligibility. Assuming agents are evil and/or dumb, that's a good thing...

[CDu]

Amusing the merry-go-round of these dates. A long time ago, the withdrawal date was later. Then, the coaches complained about not knowing what their roster needs would be until very late in the game, so they bumped up the date to maintain eligibility. Now (because the bumped-up date really screwed the players out of being able to get a good evaluation to make an informed decision, they're going back to pushing back the withdrawal date again. Funny stuff.

[superdave]

They need to do a combine specifically for players on the fence, then give them a week after the combine to withdraw.

This is not rocket surgery.

[sagegrouse]

Amusing the merry-go-round of these dates. A long time ago, the withdrawal date was later. Then, the coaches complained about not knowing what their roster needs would be until very late in the game, so they bumped up the date to maintain eligibility. Now (because the bumped-up date really screwed the players out of being able to get a good evaluation to make an informed decision, they're going back to pushing back the withdrawal date again. Funny stuff.

Great observation, CDu. I had forgotten the previous dynamic. Anyway, this is a small measure but seems to make sense.

[mattman91]

I like the idea. The only negative is for late signing recruits. Isn't the final signing day for recruits around that same time?

[sagegrouse]

I like the idea. The only negative is for late signing recruits. Isn't the final signing day for recruits around that same time?

AFAIK, there is no "final signing day" for recruits. They can show up the first day of class and sign the grant-in-aid paperwork.

[PackMan97]

Interesting point around the possibility of kids not signing with an agent until after getting feedback from the camp to preserve eligibility. Assuming agents are evil and/or dumb, that's a good thing...

I really wish signing with an agent weren't a terminating event as far as college eligibility goes. There ought to be a special type of "draft evaluation" contract which can commit the agent to the player and vice versa, but in which no money is exchanged. Should the player then decide to withdraw from the draft there agent contract terminates.

For the most part, I think it's wrong to send these kids into this process with no professional help.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This makes way too much sense. Why on earth would the NCAA do something this logical? Must be another shoe about to drop.

[Dev11]

I really wish signing with an agent weren't a terminating event as far as college eligibility goes. There ought to be a special type of "draft evaluation" contract which can commit the agent to the player and vice versa, but in which no money is exchanged. Should the player then decide to withdraw from the draft there agent contract terminates.

For the most part, I think it's wrong to send these kids into this process with no professional help.

Particularly for players at schools that don't send guys to the league every year, this seems pretty important. A lot of the Duke players who leave early usually take a few weeks between playing their last game and formally declaring. I imagine that this is due to them working with the staff to explore their NBA contacts and figure out whether or not makes sense to leave early. Most schools, however, don't have Duke's NBA connections, and may not be able to access that information as easily. That leads to players leaving school early and ending up in the D-League or overseas, which isn't the point of leaving early. If you aren't getting drafted in the first round, you might as well stay in school.

[Duke3517]

That will still probably not be able to keep Okafor and Winslow unfortunately. Hopefully Tyus stays because he is not considered a lottery pick.

[Henderson]

If you aren't getting drafted in the first round, you might as well stay in school.

I hear people say this all the time, and it's just not true. The reasoning doesn't work for a lot of kids, and the statement is very narrow mindedly NBA-centric.

Some players reach a point in their college careers where it's time to leave college and explore a pro career. Maybe they don't like college. Maybe there are players coming in that will cut down on their PT. Maybe they've had a really good year that could land them a job playing pro ball somewhere. Maybe they'd rather take a chance on tryouts or the D-League rather than "waste" another year not getting paid. Maybe they're looking at China, Europe, or elsewhere. Maybe they think their pro prospects are as good as they'll ever be, so now is the time.

Not all guys benefit professionally from more college ball, and most professional players don't play in the NBA. But they all get paid (unlike college players). It's a big world out there, even if some of us have trouble seeing past the NBA as the only option for post-college basketball success. Hence the attitude that, "If you can't be a first round pick in the premier US league, you might as well just go back to study hall and play for free while you get older."

[Richard Berg]

I really wish signing with an agent weren't a terminating event as far as college eligibility goes. There ought to be a special type of "draft evaluation" contract which can commit the agent to the player and vice versa, but in which no money is exchanged. Should the player then decide to withdraw from the draft there agent contract terminates.

For the most part, I think it's wrong to send these kids into this process with no professional help.
They should be able to sign with an agent in HS, to help negotiate their college choices (and for star players, start the endorsement process).

[Kedsy]

That will still probably not be able to keep Okafor and Winslow unfortunately. Hopefully Tyus stays because he is not considered a lottery pick.

I don't think it affects Tyus too much. If he declares, he'll get invited to the combine. If he excels at the combine he'll be considered a first-round pick, but it's highly possible that he won't know any better if he's a lottery pick after the combine than he would before the declaration date. IMO, anyway.

[Kedsy]

They should be able to sign with an agent in HS, to help negotiate their college choices (and for star players, start the endorsement process).

The problem I see with this idea is the agent only gets paid when the kid goes pro, so his suggestions would in the vast majority of cases be geared toward getting the kid to earn money as quickly as possible, whether it's good for the kid or not. If the kid absolutely needs college seasoning before he can earn money, only a lesser agent (or a predatory one or an incompetent one) would probably be interested anyway, which also would likely end up badly for the kid. I don't see any upside here.

[bob blue devil]

So does anyone know who would be deciding on invitations and who would be giving the all important feedback and how that feedback would be compiled and delivered? If I'm an NBA GM, I'm conflicted, right? Giving a kid honest feedback may not be in my team's best interest. I doubt every GM is a person of character...

[sagegrouse]

I dunno guys.... The parents can hire advisors to help with decision-making; the player doesn't need an agent.

[Richard Berg]

The problem I see with this idea is the agent only gets paid when the kid goes pro, so his suggestions would in the vast majority of cases be geared toward getting the kid to earn money as quickly as possible, whether it's good for the kid or not. If the kid absolutely needs college seasoning before he can earn money, only a lesser agent (or a predatory one or an incompetent one) would probably be interested anyway, which also would likely end up badly for the kid. I don't see any upside here.
Well it goes without saying I'd also remove the rules against college students earning money.

[Kedsy]

Well it goes without saying I'd also remove the rules against college students earning money.

They'd never pay them enough in college to make it worth an agent's while.

[Dev11]

They'd never pay them enough in college to make it worth an agent's while.

Perhaps, but if we all chipped in...

This may or may not be kosher. (http://m.espn.go.com/extra/ncaa/story?storyId=12449572&src=desktop&rand=ref~%7B%22ref%22%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.barsto olsports.com%2Fbarstoolu%2Fcrowdfunding-site-lets-you-pay-college-athletes-to-stay-in-school%2F%22%7D)

[Richard Berg]

They'd never pay them enough in college to make it worth an agent's while.
Really? I think there's decent money to be made in summer All-Star leagues, promoting the local car dealership, giving clinics, etc. Especially in markets like RDU that don't have a professional sports team. (Not to mention plain old booster money...ahem, "crowdfunding".) Just needs some good entrepreneurs.

Anyway, you're right that most NCAA athletes will never make enough dough to attract an agent -- it's just a question of how many & how much. Can the market support a substantial portion of today's so-called revenue sports? Or just the men's bball starters in the Power 5? Or just the occasional Carmelo / Durant / Kyrie phenom? Who cares? At worst, marginal prospects will be stuck with the status quo, which ain't shabby.

[MarkD83]

I hear people say this all the time, and it's just not true. The reasoning doesn't work for a lot of kids, and the statement is very narrow mindedly NBA-centric.

Some players reach a point in their college careers where it's time to leave college and explore a pro career. Maybe they don't like college. Maybe there are players coming in that will cut down on their PT. Maybe they've had a really good year that could land them a job playing pro ball somewhere. Maybe they'd rather take a chance on tryouts or the D-League rather than "waste" another year not getting paid. Maybe they're looking at China, Europe, or elsewhere. Maybe they think their pro prospects are as good as they'll ever be, so now is the time.

Not all guys benefit professionally from more college ball, and most professional players don't play in the NBA. But they all get paid (unlike college players). It's a big world out there, even if some of us have trouble seeing past the NBA as the only option for post-college basketball success. Hence the attitude that, "If you can't be a first round pick in the premier US league, you might as well just go back to study hall and play for free while you get older."

I'll use your info to burst another myth. Kids do not have to go to college at all to play pro ball. Just go overseas.