New Logo/Mascot for UNC - suggestions?

[David Bunkley]

From the home page (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2015/3/5/8153783/unc-students-protest-one-racist-legacy-on-campus-but-not-the-best)

This should be fun.

My suggestion: The University of North Carolina "Student"-Athletes and their mascot could be an open book with nothing written on the pages.

#GODUKE

[Andre Buckner Fan]

From the home page (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2015/3/5/8153783/unc-students-protest-one-racist-legacy-on-campus-but-not-the-best)

This should be fun.


I don't follow the argument in the article. I see no direct link to anything even vaguely racist, especially since the origin of the nickname is very debated.

I mean, I love to hate on UNC as much as the next Duke fan, but this article is really stretching.

[wilko]

I mean, I love to hate on UNC as much as the next Duke fan, but this article is really stretching.

It was also a little bit lazy.
They didn't even BOTHER to mention that the name before Tar Heels was indeed: The White Phantoms.
Yes that's a reference to what it sounds like.

That might have helped seal the deal perception wise.

[bob blue devil]

It was also a little bit lazy.
They didn't even BOTHER to mention that the name before Tar Heels was indeed: The White Phantoms.
Yes that's a reference to what it sounds like.

That might have helped seal the deal perception wise.

it wasn't lazy; it was paying homage to the chronicle.

[Billy Dat]

How about "The Rubber Stamps"?

It would preserve the naming legacy of combining an everyday substance with an object but more accurately reflect the relationship between academy and athletic department.

[Andre Buckner Fan]

it wasn't lazy; it was paying homage to the chronicle.

If that were the case there'd be a lot more hearsay:

"An anonymous friend of a friend once said off the record that Tar Heels might have been a racist moniker. Calls to the university athletics department were not answered so they also admit the situation is dire. A member of UNC athletics once quit, possibly to protest the racist moniker. Michael Jordan did not play his senior year for the Tar Heels. Was it to protest the name? We can't be sure."

[SCMatt33]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems quite a reach to deem "Tar Heel" a racist term. I'm certainly not a native of the region and have only done some very brief research before posting this but it seems that the name was popularized during the civil war and referred to either the tar producing industry in North Carolina or the fighting spirit or North Carolina soldiers (digging in like they had tar on their heels). It also seems like it was once derogatory towards North Carolinians as a whole, but never towards black people. I also didn't immediately find reference to the term being used specifically in reference to reluctance to give up slaves or anything like that. The logic on the front page article merely seems to be that the term was popularized during the civil war, the South was pro slavery during the civil war, and North Carolina fought for the South, therefore, it's racist.

I just think that there's a world of difference between a term associated with, but unrelated to, slave owners, and naming something after a founder And influential member of the klan.

[FerryFor50]

I think this one is appropriate:

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[Highlander]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems quite a reach to deem "Tar Heel" a racist term. I'm certainly not a native of the region and have only done some very brief research before posting this but it seems that the name was popularized during the civil war and referred to either the tar producing industry in North Carolina or the fighting spirit or North Carolina soldiers (digging in like they had tar on their heels). It also seems like it was once derogatory towards North Carolinians as a whole, but never towards black people. I also didn't immediately find reference to the term being used specifically in reference to reluctance to give up slaves or anything like that. The logic on the front page article merely seems to be that the term was popularized during the civil war, the South was pro slavery during the civil war, and North Carolina fought for the South, therefore, it's racist.

I just think that there's a world of difference between a term associated with, but unrelated to, slave owners, and naming something after a founder And influential member of the klan.

Agree. I've never heard "Tar Heels" referenced as anything other than an homage to NC's shipbuilding industry or the bravery of her confederate soldiers, and I've lived in NC my entire life. Making Tar Heels a racist term is a bit like saying Duke's nickname glorifies Satanism. Just too much of a stretch across the PC line for me, especially given Dean Smith's legacy and the first AA ACC superstar in Charlie Scott.

But if we're picking nicknames for them, I'd go with "The Pretenders." Works on so many different levels :)

[gus]

I don't follow the argument in the article. I see no direct link to anything even vaguely racist, especially since the origin of the nickname is very debated.

I mean, I love to hate on UNC as much as the next Duke fan, but this article is really stretching.

At least they don't call themselves the white phantoms anymore.

[aimo]

Lived in North Carolina all my life. The term Tar Heel came from the fact that NC's most useful gift as a colony was the production of tar from all the pine trees. North Carolinians were called Tar Heels b/c that's what they were known for, tar. Absolutely nothing racial about it. The only reason I dislike the nickname is the fact that the 'holes use it as their moniker.

[DukeWarhead]

From the original article:
"UNC will eventually adapt and replace it with something less offensive."

Just like Duke will eventually have to answer questions about the Rasheed situation???

Don't hold your breath, on either, and that's how it should be. Making something racist out of tarheel is beyond a stretch.

[FerryFor50]

Lived in North Carolina all my life. The term Tar Heel came from the fact that NC's most useful gift as a colony was the production of tar from all the pine trees. North Carolinians were called Tar Heels b/c that's what they were known for, tar. Absolutely nothing racial about it. The only reason I dislike the nickname is the fact that the 'holes use it as their moniker.

I've always known it to be from the Civil War. Robert E. Lee legend that that praised NC soldiers for standing their ground as if they had "tar on their heels."

http://www.unc.edu/about/history-and-traditions/whats-a-tar-heel/

[burnspbesq]

Copperheads. A sneaky ("ambush predator"), poisonous snake native to the area around Chapel Hill (in fact, the largest copperhead ever reported was found in Chapel Hill).

[OldPhiKap]

Good gravy.

(To the preposterous story, not as a nickname. The nickname should be "Lying Dirtbags" or the "Pompous Prevaricators").

[Dukehky]

I've always known it to be from the Civil War. Robert E. Lee legend that that praised NC soldiers for standing their ground as if they had "tar on their heels."

http://www.unc.edu/about/history-and-traditions/whats-a-tar-heel/

I think that they're both applicable, but I don't think it's a racist nickname. I'm also sure we would have heard more about how it was racist, if people had a problem with it. That article was the first time that had ever crossed my mind. Mostly because I think that it is ridiculous.

[devildeac]

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The "I Know Nothings?"

[FerryFor50]

I think that they're both applicable, but I don't think it's a racist nickname. I'm also sure we would have heard more about how it was racist, if people had a problem with it. That article was the first time that had ever crossed my mind. Mostly because I think that it is ridiculous.

Yea, agreed. Most racist part of the nickname is the Confederacy angle. But that's a stretch.

[miramar]

Tar Heels originally seems to have had a white trash connotation according to this website, so that's something to keep in mind as we consider whether the name is appropriate or not:


For a time after the Civil War, the name Tar Heel was derogatory. In Congress on Feb. 10th, 1875, a black representative from South Carolina had kind words for many whites which he described as "noble hearted, generous hearted people." Others he spoke of as "the class of men thrown up by the war, that rude class of men, I mean the tar heels and the sand hillers and the dirt eaters of the South-it is with that class that we have all our trouble."

http://www.mrtarheel.com/tarheelorigin.html


At any rate, as long as we have General Lee in the portal of the Duke chapel, I don't think we can criticize the name Tar Heel or even Silent Sam for that matter.

[gus]

I've always known it to be from the Civil War. Robert E. Lee legend that that praised NC soldiers for standing their ground as if they had "tar on their heels."

http://www.unc.edu/about/history-and-traditions/whats-a-tar-heel/

the term existed before that, if wiki is to be trusted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_Heel

I don't think any etymology is certain with this phrase. Personally, I don't find it has a racist connotation now (if it ever did). But if we're renaming them, maybe we can suggest the nickname Walt Whitman apparently used: Tarboilers.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I grew up in North Carolina and attended public schools. I remember in the study of NC history (fifth grade and eighth grade) the origins of the nickname were related to the naval stores the state could produce using the numerous pine trees which grow across the state. Calling people of the state tar heels as a reference to the state's production of naval stores goes back to the Revolutionary period. Lord Cornwallis is credited with making such a reference..... so we're talking the 1700s, not the Civil War period.

This would appear to be "much ado about nothing" or a "tempest in a teapot."

[plimnko]

why not clean up "the carolina way" and THEN get a new mascot and logo?

[OldPhiKap]

At any rate, as long as we have General Lee in the portal of the Duke chapel, I don't think we can criticize the name Tar Heel or even Silent Sam for that matter.

Yeah, but isn't his belt buckle inscribed with a "U.S." ?

[OldPhiKap]

I grew up in North Carolina and attended public schools. I remember in the study of NC history (fifth grade and eighth grade) the origins of the nickname were related to the naval stores the state could produce using the numerous pine trees which grow across the state. Calling people of the state tar heels as a reference to the state's production of naval stores goes back to the Revolutionary period. Lord Cornwallis is credited with making such a reference..... so we're talking the 1700s, not the Civil War period.

This would appear to be "much ado about nothing" or a "tempest in a teapot."

Of course, there was slavery in Colonial times too. Need to get rid of those names -- Patriots, Minutemen, hell -- the Colonial League.

[bob blue devil]

to be fair, this is not the first time i've heard allusions to 'tar heel' being racist in origin.

if memory serves, the story told to me was that slaves working with the pines and tar consistently had tar on their feet, and this reference stuck. however, i think there were also non-slave white laborers engaged in similar work at the time (and were also looked down upon by the wealthy), hence, most commentaries don't speculate on a racial connotation.

and then there is the theory posted here (http://www.campussqueeze.com/post/the-five-most-racist-college-nicknames.aspx), which doesn't make a lot of sense. It infers a racial connotation.

When the British soldiers crossed the Tar River during the American Revolutionary War, it is said that they emerged black, therefore nicknamed “tar heels.”

i don't have an issue with tar heel, but i haven't really heard the other side of the argument, if there is one.

[Dev11]

At any rate, as long as we have General Lee in the portal of the Duke chapel, I don't think we can criticize the name Tar Heel or even Silent Sam for that matter.

Trump card^

Actually, let me turn this ship, how come General Lee stands over the door to the chapel? He was just a Virginian and a muscle car, right?

[devildeac]

Wonder if this would work:

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[miramar]

Yeah, but isn't his belt buckle inscribed with a "U.S." ?

I tried blowing up an image and I coudn't tell if it had an inscription. Silent Sam's cantine, on the other hand, definitely says CSA. And IIRC, there is a sign by the statue saying something about honoring the men who served their country or something along those lines, and the cantine reminds you that they're definitely not talking about the good ol' USA.

[gethlives]

As a diehard Carolina fan, a hater of all things Duke-blue, and a long time lurker, and infrequent poster on this board, let me just applaud the article and this thread. This post is truly in the spirit of the rivalry. And I am not being facetious at all. Just like my compatriots will talk about the fact that your school sold out its integrity for a tobacco baron's dollars and changed its name, and copied its faux-gothic look from the Ivy league, I encourage you all to look for ways to denigrate our institution. It's all fun and really great for the rivalry.

Now if I could only get you all to agree to extend your fine honoring of Coach Smith to the next game and hear my proposal. You may or may not know that Coach Smith long advocated for freshmen ineligibility. What a tribute to the legend that Coach Smith is if for this round if both teams agreed to not play their freshmen. It seems like something that a great sportsman like Coach K would gladly embrace.

[OldPhiKap]

Now if I could only get you all to agree to extend your fine honoring of Coach Smith to the next game and hear my proposal. You may or may not know that Coach Smith long advocated for freshmen ineligibility. What a tribute to the legend that Coach Smith is if for this round if both teams agreed to not play their freshmen. It seems like something that a great sportsman like Coach K would gladly embrace.

That's damn funny right there. Kudos. (seriously)

The best way to honor DES is for both teams to play like hell for 40 minutes. Or 45 or 50, whatever it takes. I thought both teams held up their end of the job a few weeks ago, and have no reason to expect anything differently Saturday.

[DukieInKansas]

As a diehard Carolina fan, a hater of all things Duke-blue, and a long time lurker, and infrequent poster on this board, let me just applaud the article and this thread. This post is truly in the spirit of the rivalry. And I am not being facetious at all. Just like my compatriots will talk about the fact that your school sold out its integrity for a tobacco baron's dollars and changed its name, and copied its faux-gothic look from the Ivy league, I encourage you all to look for ways to denigrate our institution. It's all fun and really great for the rivalry.

Now if I could only get you all to agree to extend your fine honoring of Coach Smith to the next game and hear my proposal. You may or may not know that Coach Smith long advocated for freshmen ineligibility. What a tribute to the legend that Coach Smith is if for this round if both teams agreed to not play their freshmen. It seems like something that a great sportsman like Coach K would gladly embrace.

Good try but I don't think we will take you up on it. How about we go Four Corners for our first possession?


Welcome. Don't be a stranger - we can always use people with a good sense of humor.

[devildeac]

As a diehard Carolina fan, a hater of all things Duke-blue, and a long time lurker, and infrequent poster on this board, let me just applaud the article and this thread. This post is truly in the spirit of the rivalry. And I am not being facetious at all. Just like my compatriots will talk about the fact that your school sold out its integrity for a tobacco baron's dollars and changed its name, and copied its faux-gothic look from the Ivy league, I encourage you all to look for ways to denigrate our institution. It's all fun and really great for the rivalry.

Now if I could only get you all to agree to extend your fine honoring of Coach Smith to the next game and hear my proposal. You may or may not know that Coach Smith long advocated for freshmen ineligibility. What a tribute to the legend that Coach Smith is if for this round if both teams agreed to not play their freshmen. It seems like something that a great sportsman like Coach K would gladly embrace.

We'll see if we can get a word to our MBB program about your suggestion. Maybe bargain a bit. Let's say no freshman play in our game on Saturday and the c*rolina sports programs using ineligible athletes for the last 15-20 years (or more) agree to forfeit all those contests, remove 2-3 championship banners from the rafters (plus whatever other sports were involved) and take a decade or two of post season tourney bans (multiple sports) and relinquish several hundred athletic scholarships over that same period. Whaddaya think? Deal?;):rolleyes:

[left_hook_lacey]

Agree. I've never heard "Tar Heels" referenced as anything other than an homage to NC's shipbuilding industry or the bravery of her confederate soldiers, and I've lived in NC my entire life. Making Tar Heels a racist term is a bit like saying Duke's nickname glorifies Satanism. Just too much of a stretch across the PC line for me, especially given Dean Smith's legacy and the first AA ACC superstar in Charlie Scott.

But if we're picking nicknames for them, I'd go with "The Pretenders." Works on so many different levels :)

I too was born and raised in North Carolina. The name referenced above is what I remember learning in grade school. It originated from a reference to NC's ship building and industrial use and distribution of tar, and later to describe the determination of a person. Seems like a fitting tribute to nickname a sports program at the first state sponsored University, the Tar Heels.

I don't see anything racist at all about it.

But since we're taking swings. How about "The Sultans of Swahili"?

No, wait, someone somewhere will find a reason to find that offensive also.

[David Bunkley]

I doubt there's much of a conneciton between UNC's nickname and racism - I just thought it would be funny to try to come up with new names for them?

#GODUKE

[Kfanarmy]

It was also a little bit lazy.
They didn't even BOTHER to mention that the name before Tar Heels was indeed: The White Phantoms.
Yes that's a reference to what it sounds like.

That might have helped seal the deal perception wise.

Now we're getting to the Chronicle standard...innuendo without fact.

Please source this.

As far as I can deduce, The White Phantoms were given that nickname because of their white uniforms and fast pace.

[Olympic Fan]

I can't really see a racist connection to the nickname Tar Heels ... the term does date back to Colonial days, although North Carolina Confederates did like the story that it referred to their ability to stand in line under fire as if they had tar on their heels -- whether General Lee every really said that (actually, I thought the quote was attributed to General Jackson at the first Battle of Bull Run) remains a question mark.

Of course, as others have pointed out in this thread, UNC has only used the Tar Heel nickname since 1948-49. Before that, it was White Phantoms. Now THAT was a nickname with racist connotations.

And nobody has mentioned, that for all the years when freshmen were ineligible for varsity competition, UNC's freshmen teams were known as "Tar Babies". The last UNC reference I can find to that is in the 1973 UNC basketball brochure.

I think anybody who has read Joel Chandler Harris understands how inappropriate that term is.

[weezie]

So, the "Dirt Eaters" is racist, too?
That would have been perfect....but I'll keep trying.

[BD80]

This is absurd. "tar heel" is similar to "tar baby" which is indisputably racist. Same reason "niggardly" is no longer considered acceptable. Absurd, but the way of today's world.

As for mascots, don't have one. The "No Shows."

[-jk]

I don't know how reliable Charly Mann is, but he thinks "tar heel" is racist (https://web.archive.org/web/20100924200848/http://chapelhillmemories.com/cat/14/169).

-jk

[Dev11]

Here's my test for determining if a word is racist. Shout that word at somebody who fits the description in a crowd and see what happens.

Actually, hang on, I would get pretty riled up if somebody shouted "TAR HEEL" at me in a crowd.

[alteran]

Yeah, I agree with the folks that think the name "tar heels" being racist is a bit of a stretch-- but I'm all for renaming them!

I would like to propose the name, "Sanctimonious Cheatweasels." The mascot can just be a dude wearing coaching gear.

[gus]

Yeah, I agree with the folks that think the name "tar heels" being racist is a bit of a stretch-- but I'm all for renaming them!

I would like to propose the name, "Sanctimonious Cheatweasels." The mascot can just be a dude wearing coaching gear.

here's the new mascot:

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/81369000/jpg/_81369147_81369116.jpg

(source http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31711446)

[Kfanarmy]

This is absurd. "tar heel" is similar to "tar baby" which is indisputably racist. Same reason "niggardly" is no longer considered acceptable. Absurd, but the way of today's world.

As for mascots, don't have one. The "No Shows."

I think folks are oft overlysensitive and not nearly intellectually curious enough as we slide toward idiocracy.

Actually the term tar baby is not indisputably racist. It arose from American folk (African and Indian) tales wherein tar was used to entrap a, usually nefarious, character in a story. Over time, the term came to mean a sticky situation that was not easy to get out of. Most writings on the term indicate that some consider it racist, not because of its usage, but because they believe is sounds racist and are ignorant of its usage, its origins and its meaning. the statement above is wrong (disputably) with regard to both terms.

[FerryFor50]

I think folks are oft overlysensitive and not nearly intellectually curious enough as we slide toward idiocracy.

Actually the term tar baby is not indisputably racist. It arose from American folk (African and Indian) tales wherein tar was used to entrap a, usually nefarious, character in a story. Over time, the term came to mean a sticky situation that was not easy to get out of. Most writings on the term indicate that some consider it racist, not because of its usage, but because they believe is sounds racist and are ignorant of its usage, its origins and its meaning. the statement above is wrong (disputably) with regard to both terms.

Uncle Remus tales has a story like that featuring Br'er Rabbit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Remus

[JStuart]

I too was born and raised in North Carolina. The name referenced above is what I remember learning in grade school. It originated from a reference to NC's ship building and industrial use and distribution of tar, and later to describe the determination of a person. Seems like a fitting tribute to nickname a sports program at the first state sponsored University, the Tar Heels.

I don't see anything racist at all about it.

But since we're taking swings. How about "The Sultans of Swahili"?

No, wait, someone somewhere will find a reason to find that offensive also.

I'll second your entire comment. Swahili has to appear in the mascot name somewhere. Just rolls off the tongue! Can't you hear the announcers (Hogewood, or one of the other Raycom heel fanciers) say, "here come the Swahili Scholars on a scoring run!"

I had always heard in the discussion of the name -whether Stonewall Jackson said that they 'stood as if they had tar on their heels'- that General Lee later commented, 'God bless the tar heel boys.' The phrase wasn't invented by him.
It also seems that the battle in which the name originated, all the troops were ordered to fall back, and the NC regiment didn't get the order, and kept their position, thus appearing to be a sturdier fighting force. But, who knows? Told differently, they could have a Mule as a mascot, being stubborn, and all.
Copperheads as a mascot has a negative slant, dating back to the reconstruction era, I believe; will get back to you on that one.
JStuart, several generation NC native

[weezie]

So, the "Dirt Eaters" is racist, too?
That would have been perfect....but I'll keep trying.

How about "Dirt Baggers"??
Better?

[OldPhiKap]

If the NCAA gives them the death penalty, will they need a mascot?

[kcduke75]

I cannot believe that no one has yet taken the time to point out to our new "Tarheel" friend that the Duke money that funded Duke University was from Duke power, not tobacco.

And I see no racist connotations to the term Tar Heel, but I do look forward to seeing more nicknames here for the people formerly known as Tar Heels.

[Jim3k]

This is absurd. "tar heel" is similar to "tar baby" which is indisputably racist. Same reason "niggardly" is no longer considered acceptable. Absurd, but the way of today's world.

As for mascots, don't have one. The "No Shows."

Not sure why an educated person would consider 'niggardly' or even 'niggard' as racist. Sure, it sounds like the N word, but it is not. The meaning is "miserly' or miser; even 'stingy.' Hey, in some cultures that is seen as a (semi) positive thing. (e.g., senior citizens not wanting to outlive their money.)

Anyway, the online etymology dictionary (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=n&p=10&allowed_in_frame=0) 'splains' its origin-- 14th century or earlier, most likely Norse. Amusingly, it also references Christopher Hitchins having a problem with it. If used properly I see no reason to fear it or take umbrage at its use.

[hudlow]

How about just "Tar"

They could leave off the foot graphic and just have a black glob.

[gethlives]

I cannot believe that no one has yet taken the time to point out to our new "Tarheel" friend that the Duke money that funded Duke University was from Duke power, not tobacco.

.

OK I respectively withdraw my comment. Instead, I rather say that Duke sold its soul and name to money associated with coal-ash dumping, environment-ruining, price gouging energy interests.

You're right that is better!

[OldPhiKap]

OK I respectively withdraw my comment. Instead, I rather say that Duke sold its soul and name to money associated with coal-ash dumping, environment-ruining, price gouging energy interests.

You're right that is better!

Our Carbon Footprint > Your Tar Heel Footprint.


Oh wait, that's maybe not good . . . .

[Duvall]

OK I respectively withdraw my comment. Instead, I rather say that Duke sold its soul and name to money associated with coal-ash dumping, environment-ruining, price gouging energy interests.

You're right that is better!

Not sold, exactly. More of a ne'er-do-well institutional sibling.

[gethlives]

Our Carbon Footprint > Your Tar Heel Footprint.


Oh wait, that's maybe not good . . . .

You see in all seriousness--this is good rivalry stuff. My favorite part of the rivalry is when folks will admit to this simple fact: You hate Carolina because we are Carolina. You then think of things to justify your hate. I hate Duke because you are Duke and do the same thing to justify my hatred. That's why I really liked the post on the front page about the name Tar Heel. Obviously, the writer doesn't actually think the name is racist but if the shoe was on the other foot (or heel as it were) I'd be doing the same thing. Like for instance, I don't know how you you all can cheer for a team who mascot is at best a miscolored rendition of Satan or at worst a soldier in an army that is most famous for their wanton surrenders. See how fun this is!

[BigWayne]

You see in all seriousness--this is good rivalry stuff. My favorite part of the rivalry is when folks will admit to this simple fact: You hate Carolina because we are Carolina. You then think of things to justify your hate. I hate Duke because you are Duke and do the same thing to justify my hatred. That's why I really liked the post on the front page about the name Tar Heel. Obviously, the writer doesn't actually think the name is racist but if the shoe was on the other foot (or heel as it were) I'd be doing the same thing. Like for instance, I don't know how you you all can cheer for a team who mascot is at best a miscolored rendition of Satan or at worst a soldier in an army that is most famous for their wanton surrenders. See how fun this is!

I cheer against UNC because after I had decided to be an engineer and before I decided to go to Duke, condescending people, some of which were not even associated with UNC, looked down on me for not pursuing the Morehead Scholarship. To them, going to UNC was more important than getting my desired education. I don't hate UNC itself, but I do hate the vast quantity of hypocritical, condescending sphincter voids that seem to be associated with the place.

[devildeac]

You see in all seriousness--this is good rivalry stuff. My favorite part of the rivalry is when folks will admit to this simple fact: You hate Carolina because we are Carolina. You then think of things to justify your hate. I hate Duke because you are Duke and do the same thing to justify my hatred. That's why I really liked the post on the front page about the name Tar Heel. Obviously, the writer doesn't actually think the name is racist but if the shoe was on the other foot (or heel as it were) I'd be doing the same thing. Like for instance, I don't know how you you all can cheer for a team who mascot is at best a miscolored rendition of Satan or at worst a soldier in an army that is most famous for their wanton surrenders. See how fun this is!

Or you could cheer for even-toed ungulates that needs constant shepherding/guidance, make highly annoying noises and whose best historical purpose appears to be that of animal sacrifice. Or something like that. Now, that's baaa-aad.

[Indoor66]

I don't know how to do pictures but Pinocchio with an extended nose might be very appropriate.... :cool:

[devildeac]

I don't know how to do pictures but Pinocchio with an extended nose might be very appropriate.... :cool:

This would work, too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinocchio

"In this, the original tale, Pinocchio exhibits obnoxious, bratty, and selfish traits."

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[Henderson]

This would work, too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinocchio

"In this, the original tale, Pinocchio exhibits obnoxious, bratty, and selfish traits."

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I hate to point this out, but maybe that first photo was not the best one to post. The face looks a little too familiar.

[Merlindevildog91]

How about a logo of 9F?

[lotusland]

I wasn't aware of tar heel being a racist term. Are Tarboro and the Tar River also racist terms?

As far as the new name and mascot, Gators hs already been chosen http://ges.chccs.k12.nc.us/

[devildeac]

I hate to point this out, but maybe that first photo was not the best one to post. The face looks a little too familiar.

Oh, my, I didn't notice that as I copied and pasted a drawing of the "original" Pinocchio.

[davekay1971]

The front page article is way out there. To try to claim the Tar Heel name and logo is racist because it gained popularity after Robert E Lee's quote from the Civil War is beyond any logic I can follow. The term existed, with uncertain origin, prior to the Civil War, and there is not one theory that I could find of any racial implications of the name itself. I can't find any evidence that the big ugly foot with the black stain on the heel doesn't have any racial implications to it. To imply the Tar Heel term and/or logo are racist or racially insensitive due to a connection to the Confederacy is to imply that any and everything associated with the Confederacy is racist or racially insensitive.

So, um, Washington Duke fought for the Confederacy. By the front page article's logic, there's an Inn and Golf Club needing a name change.

[DukieInKansas]

How about a logo of 9F?

but can you use someone's password?

[Mike Corey]

The front page article is way out there. To try to claim the Tar Heel name and logo is racist because it gained popularity after Robert E Lee's quote from the Civil War is beyond any logic I can follow. The term existed, with uncertain origin, prior to the Civil War, and there is not one theory that I could find of any racial implications of the name itself. I can't find any evidence that the big ugly foot with the black stain on the heel doesn't have any racial implications to it. To imply the Tar Heel term and/or logo are racist or racially insensitive due to a connection to the Confederacy is to imply that any and everything associated with the Confederacy is racist or racially insensitive.

So, um, Washington Duke fought for the Confederacy. By the front page article's logic, there's an Inn and Golf Club needing a name change.

And General Lee's statue at the entrance of the Duke Chapel would have to be carved out.

[OldPhiKap]

And General Lee's statue at the entrance of the Duke Chapel would have to be carved out.

as i mentioned upthread (but may bre wrong), his beltbuckle has "U.S." on it -- so we're covered.

Seriously though -- history is what it is. It's one thing to have a team called the Redskins. It's another to have a historical name, which takes the good with the bad.

[aimo]

sphincter voids

HA! I now have a new phrase. Thanks!

[NYBri]

But if we're renaming them, maybe we can suggest the nickname Walt Whitman apparently used: Tarboilers.

Whitman first used that term in reference to Duke...

[Indoor66]

I wasn't aware of tar heel being a racist term. Are Tarboro and the Tar River also racist terms?

As far as the new name and mascot, Gators hs already been chosen http://ges.chccs.k12.nc.us/

I might go with Gemini to acknowledge the two-faced nature of their ethics.

[wilko]

Reminds of a Futurama joke....
"In order to stop the constant jokes, teasing and taunts over the planet named Uranus, astronomers have decided to change the name of the planet to Urectum."

[OldPhiKap]

Show about Mr. Hanky?

[pfernsten]

4860
While I don't see Tar Heel as being racist, if they do change their mascot, what else could it be but The Cheetahs? Or have I spent too much time in Boston? I'll attempt to attach an image of what the new mascot might look like.

[brevity]

4860
While I don't see Tar Heel as being racist, if they do change their mascot, what else could it be but The Cheetahs? Or have I spent too much time in Boston? I'll attempt to attach an image of what the new mascot might look like.

Winner. "Carolina Cheetahs" is simplicity itself. And that image is amazing. The alternate mascot can be a couch-denting Carolina fan with Cheetos prints on his old and ugly blue T-shirt.

[Wander]

UNC's logo should be a sleeping goat with a cartoon dream bubble over its head revealing that it's having a nightmare of Tyus Jones.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

4860
While I don't see Tar Heel as being racist, if they do change their mascot, what else could it be but The Cheetahs? Or have I spent too much time in Boston? I'll attempt to attach an image of what the new mascot might look like.
Coach Derek Jones and his DBs on our football team refer to themselves as Cheetahs and their position group as The Coalition. I included a reference to The Coalition on my tailgate tent last year. What has Carolina done to qualify to share that nickname?

[wilko]

I went to an anagram generator to play around.....
TarHeels became "Leathers"

I put in a few more UNC based names and I think my favorite is "Sad Bums" for their new mascot.

[Henderson]

Post-Syracuse new logo for UNC-CH:

4861

[hudlow]

For a local name and mascot....

Carolina Heelsplitters

4862

....an endangered species that lives in the mud.

They wouldn't have to change their logo much, just delete the glob of tar on the heel and insert a clam.

[lotusland]

4860
While I don't see Tar Heel as being racist, if they do change their mascot, what else could it be but The Cheetahs? Or have I spent too much time in Boston? I'll attempt to attach an image of what the new mascot might look like.

winner

[aimo]

http://www.ourstate.com/longleaf-pine/

Love this magazine, by the way.

[sagegrouse]

the term existed before that, if wiki is to be trusted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_Heel

I don't think any etymology is certain with this phrase. Personally, I don't find it has a racist connotation now (if it ever did). But if we're renaming them, maybe we can suggest the nickname Walt Whitman apparently used: Tarboilers.

I always thought the name "Tar Heels" came about in the 18th century because the state was originally settled by people moving southwest from Virginia and were almost entirely country folks. Perhaps the pitch-pine business gave some logic to the name, but the implication was "slow-moving or lazy." I expect the civil War, where NC provided the most Confederate soldiers, turned the tables and made it a positive nickname.

Similarly, the term "Kiwi" for New Zealanders was intended as an insult, taken in WW I from the familiar image on cans of shoe polish. But Kiwi is no longer an insult. Here's more from Wikipedia:


The polish was developed in Australia by William Ramsay who named it Kiwi after the flightless bird endemic to New Zealand, the home country of his wife, Annie Elizabeth Meek Ramsay. Its success in Australia expanded overseas when it was adopted by both the British and American armies in World War I.

[sagegrouse]

I cannot believe that no one has yet taken the time to point out to our new "Tarheel" friend that the Duke money that funded Duke University was from Duke power, not tobacco.

And I see no racist connotations to the term Tar Heel, but I do look forward to seeing more nicknames here for the people formerly known as Tar Heels.

Uh, well... The money that JB Duke used to found Duke Power came from the American Tobacco Company, which was the dominant firm until the trust-buster broke it into three. Ah, yes, the smell decades ago when the wind was just right -- the delicate flavor of cured tobacco wafting over the Duke campus.