WBB: Duke 62, GaTech 71

[burnspbesq]

I'm sure someone will be along momentarily to explain why 5-24 shooting is Coach P's fault.

[Duvall]

I'm sure someone will be along momentarily to explain why 5-24 shooting is Coach P's fault.

Well, we can be sure that one of the highest-paid employees of the university will be explaining why it's the players' fault soon enough.

[burnspbesq]

Well, we can be sure that one of the highest-paid employees of the university will be explaining why it's the players' fault soon enough.

Are you seriously, with a straight face, contending that it's not?

[Duvall]

Are you seriously, with a straight face, contending that it's not?

Yes, I am with a straight face contending that coaches are responsible for crafting schemes, designing gameplans and making in-game adjustments.

[burnspbesq]

Yes, I am with a straight face contending that coaches are responsible for crafting schemes, designing gameplans and making in-game adjustments.

Are you even watching the game? You either have no idea what is happening on the court or are so invested in your P-hate that you are prepared to willfully misrepresent it.

And yes, I did see your failure to answer the question I asked because answering it wouldn't advance your agenda.

[Bob Green]

Let's keep it civil, folks. Please!

[bluedevilsince72]

This is going to be an all time low for P if they get blown out by GT. I don't see one player with any confidence. Im praying GT goes cold from 3.

[msdukie]

Yes, I am with a straight face contending that coaches are responsible for crafting schemes, designing gameplans and making in-game adjustments.

Well, we are 0-3 on that one in the first half.

[DU82]

End of first half, GT 33-19.

Duke is 7-34 overall, 1-10 for three. GT is packing in the D, forcing some very poor shots from poor locations relatively late in the shot clock. (The GT band, about the only fans there, are doing the early countdown, and we fell for it at least once, if not more.) Not a lot of movement on offense. Twelve offensive boards, but not a lot to show for them. KJ and Elizabeth with two fouls each, and I would call the first one on KJ pretty dumb (to be clear, the foul, not the player) as she just ran into one of the GT players.

On D, it's not horrible, but relative to Duke's offense, GT's offense is productive. 40% overall, 4-12 from three (sure seemed to be more than that.)

[uh_no]

I'm sure someone will be along momentarily to explain why 5-24 shooting is Coach P's fault.

commentator on the first half offense (approximate)

"they have to stop settling for that three point shot. They haven't done a good job all ACC season knocking it down. They need to get it inside to their bread and butter."

[bluedevilsince72]

If Duke tries to pound it inside with Techs super sloughing defense, Duke is going to turn it over a lot. They gotta take some jumpers with confidence. But its tough to plays with confidence when you know your zone defense is not getting consistent stops.

[AIM4excellence]

commentator on the first half offense (approximate)

"they have to stop settling for that three point shot. They haven't done a good job all ACC season knocking it down. They need to get it inside to their bread and butter."

And another commentator in another game: "Duke's offense seems to be a beat slow in getting the ball in to Elizabeth Williams. She'll fight for position and be open but then be covered by the time Duke passes the ball." Thus we have turnovers instead of buckets inside. Those who lament all the bunnies EWill misses would be wise to note she's not getting the ball in scoring position.

[uh_no]

duke shot 3/18 from long range. Despite assertions that "it won't happen that often"

for a 32.5% shooting team, it will happen about once every 8-9 games

For comparison, for a slightly better 37.5 team (one more out of every 20), it will happen once every 19-20 games...or about half as often.

[killerleft]

And another commentator in another game: "Duke's offense seems to be a beat slow in getting the ball in to Elizabeth Williams. She'll fight for position and be open but then be covered by the time Duke passes the ball." Thus we have turnovers instead of buckets inside. Those who lament all the bunnies EWill misses would be wise to note she's not getting the ball in scoring position.

Point guard, anyone? Not a high school one, please.

[killerleft]

If Duke tries to pound it inside with Techs super sloughing defense, Duke is going to turn it over a lot. They gotta take some jumpers with confidence. But its tough to plays with confidence when you know your zone defense is not getting consistent stops.

Most of the time when you're jacking up threes it does not show a lack of confidence that you're gonna hit 'em.

[bluedevilsince72]

We were all super hesitant to shoot. We got it inside some and our bigs didn't finish. You gotta shoot some outside. Other teams don't respect anyone from the outside except Rebecca (who is easy to take away) and Azura. Kendall, KJ, Erin, Mercedes, andAmber don't have to be guarded at all. Tough to score inside when 4 players are within a foot of you in the post. We gotta get some kind of perimeter threat.

[Henderson]

Most of the time when you're jacking up threes it does not show a lack of confidence that you're gonna hit 'em.

Speak for yourself. I do it just to keep the crowd laughing. That and because I'm too old and tired to go further down the court than the arc. I like to think my unpredictable aim keeps opposing defenses guessing.

[CameronBornAndBred]

When was the last time that we lost to two unranked teams back to back? There is a very real chance that we will be unranked when we play the Heels on Monday. I don't care so much about our rankings, but I do care about the tournament, and if we don't beat UNC, I would be surprised if we are playing in Cameron. That will be a major embarrassment for the program.

A Thursday night full of surprises jostled the top four seeds in each region once again. While all the No. 1 seeds stayed the same, every other seed line was shaken up.


Duke's loss at Georgia Tech was its third in a row, and the Blue Devils could be playing themselves out of hosting. Now Sunday's regular-season finale against North Carolina is enormous.


The Tar Heels survived Virginia and, thanks largely to Duke's loss, slid up to the No. 3 line.

http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12391128/trio-upsets-thursday-shake-top-bracketology

[DU82]

When was the last time that we lost to two unranked teams back to back? There is a very real chance that we will be unranked when we play the Heels on Monday. I don't care so much about our rankings, but I do care about the tournament, and if we don't beat UNC, I would be surprised if we are playing in Cameron. That will be a major embarrassment for the program.

http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/12391128/trio-upsets-thursday-shake-top-bracketology

The game against the evil cheating smurfs is Sunday 3PM, in Cameron.

I think Charlie Creme does a much better job of explaining things than Lunardi does on the men's side. I wasn't aware of the rule requiring conference top-4 seeds to be separated, that has to be new, since in the past conference teams were seeded 1-2 in the same regions (without having more than four.)

[CameronBornAndBred]

The game against the evil cheating smurfs is Sunday 3PM, in Cameron.

Whew...then we'll still be ranked. ;)

Another bright side...Elizabeth had 5 blocks last night, so she is 28 away from Bales' record. Looking like a long shot now, but depending on how many games they stick around for in the tournaments it's possible.

[duke79]

Yea, does NOT make me feel good to see a Duke coach, in any sport, deal with their athletes in this manner. I realize many people take Duke basketball, both men's and women's, seriously on this Board but we are not fighting World War III here. It is just a game and we're talking about young adults who (I believe) are trying their best.

Could be worse, though, I guess. See the link below to the Vandy men's BB coach threatening to kill a player. Jeez.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/vanderbilt-coach-quickly-apologizes-for-postgame-incident-052819946.html

[killerleft]

We were all super hesitant to shoot. We got it inside some and our bigs didn't finish. You gotta shoot some outside. Other teams don't respect anyone from the outside except Rebecca (who is easy to take away) and Azura. Kendall, KJ, Erin, Mercedes, andAmber don't have to be guarded at all. Tough to score inside when 4 players are within a foot of you in the post. We gotta get some kind of perimeter threat.

Unless somebody gets hot, or Becca is left alone to shoot enough makeable threes, next year is when we should get that threat. ND wasn't the first team to key on Becca, but every team since and from here on out will.

[killerleft]

Speak for yourself. I do it just to keep the crowd laughing. That and because I'm too old and tired to go further down the court than the arc. I like to think my unpredictable aim keeps opposing defenses guessing.

I'm past all those shooting days myself, but when I did play rec ball I thought they were going in. Some actually did!:o

[CameronBornAndBred]

I just watched the whole interview, and kept waiting for the "thrown under the bus" moment...and now that I've seen her speak, I'm still waiting. I heard lots of "we" and "our". I think calling out the fact that both seniors are sitting on the bench with 4 fouls is a valid criticism, as were all of her points.

“It’s amazing to me how easily we were taken out of things,” McCallie said. "They’re a pretty physical team. They do a nice job. But [we need to] just focus and be focused. Some people focus on themselves and focus on what they didn’t do rather than what they can do for the team. It’s very frustrating."
I don't see anything wrong with that quote (or the others listed in an article from the Chronicle, the interview itself is hard to hear), she isn't calling any one player out publicly but she IS saying that more TEAM play is needed. Now you can go to town saying that is a coach's responsibility to make that happen, and I agree, but I don't see the premise of your post where she threw players under the proverbial bus.
http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2015/02/27/road-woes-continue-georgia-tech-duke-womens-basketball-drops-third-straight#.VPDBKvnF-VM

[AIM4excellence]

I just watched the whole interview, and kept waiting for the "thrown under the bus" moment...and now that I've seen her speak, I'm still waiting. I heard lots of "we" and "our". I think calling out the fact that both seniors are sitting on the bench with 4 fouls is a valid criticism, as were all of her points.

I don't see anything wrong with that quote (or the others listed in an article from the Chronicle, the interview itself is hard to hear), she isn't calling any one player out publicly but she IS saying that more TEAM play is needed. Now you can go to town saying that is a coach's responsibility to make that happen, and I agree, but I don't see the premise of your post where she threw players under the proverbial bus.
http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2015/02/27/road-woes-continue-georgia-tech-duke-womens-basketball-drops-third-straight#.VPDBKvnF-VM

Here is the quote being referred to in the above paragraph: “It’s amazing to me how easily we were taken out of things,” McCallie said. "They’re a pretty physical team. They do a nice job. But [we need to] just focus and be focused. Some people focus on themselves and focus on what they didn’t do rather than what they can do for the team. It’s very frustrating."

Here's my viewpoint on this statement - though using the word "we," it seems to me she's talking about the players and that she, herself is not included in the "we." This is more clear in the last part "some people focus on themselves" which seems to imply she's referring to other people. However, who is the one person in the program whose JOB is to not let the team "get easily taken out of things?" It is not anybody else's JOB to keep them from being "easily taken out of things. The responsibility for making adjustments goes 100% to the head coach. The players' job is to execute the adjustments, assuming they've learned how to carry them out in practice. The players' job is to try to do what the coach asks of them. If the coach is not devising the adjustments to make, if the players to do it themselves, then they're not following the coach's instructions. Do we really want the players taking it upon themselves to figure out and execute their own adjustments?

[killerleft]

Here is the quote being referred to in the above paragraph: “It’s amazing to me how easily we were taken out of things,” McCallie said. "They’re a pretty physical team. They do a nice job. But [we need to] just focus and be focused. Some people focus on themselves and focus on what they didn’t do rather than what they can do for the team. It’s very frustrating."

Here's my viewpoint on this statement - though using the word "we," it seems to me she's talking about the players and that she, herself is not included in the "we." This is more clear in the last part "some people focus on themselves" which seems to imply she's referring to other people. However, who is the one person in the program whose JOB is to not let the team "get easily taken out of things?" It is not anybody else's JOB to keep them from being "easily taken out of things. The responsibility for making adjustments goes 100% to the head coach. The players' job is to execute the adjustments, assuming they've learned how to carry them out in practice. The players' job is to try to do what the coach asks of them. If the coach is not devising the adjustments to make, if the players to do it themselves, then they're not following the coach's instructions. Do we really want the players taking it upon themselves to figure out and execute their own adjustments?

That's as creative a translation as I've seen in a long, long, time. You can just make up anything you want to support your arguments (I'd never have guessed from your earlier posts). I think that if it's not already happening, you should really think about becoming a professional spin-doctor.

[bluedevilsince72]

Here is what Coach P said in her interview that I thought was inappropriate and negative (yet again).

"We've got people with zero assists, played 30 minutes. I mean thats almost unheard of." I wonder how KJ is feeling after that one.

2nd quote "Our leadership has been really really poor. I mean you can't have 2 seniors, I don't know of any team in the country that has 2 seniors on the bench with foul trouble like we do." I'm sure after hearing this one KJ and Williams want to run through a wall for her.

You have 2 seniors that have busted their tails for 4 years. Its time to build them up and not tear them down. Do you think they tried to make those fouls? They just made some bad plays hustling for their team.

Save the negative stuff for the locker room in private. The players already feel bad enough after a loss and suffering through the worst season of their careers.

[uh_no]

I'm not looking for positives

Some people focus on themselves and focus on what they didn’t do rather than what they can do for the team.

It sounds like the team is following coach's leadership by focusing on negatives. You can't rip your team one week, saying you only care about things they didn't do, and then rip them the next week for focusing on things they didn't do.

[AIM4excellence]

Here is what Coach P said in her interview that I thought was inappropriate and negative (yet again).

"We've got people with zero assists, played 30 minutes. I mean thats almost unheard of." I wonder how KJ is feeling after that one.

2nd quote "Our leadership has been really really poor. I mean you can't have 2 seniors, I don't know of any team in the country that has 2 seniors on the bench with foul trouble like we do." I'm sure after hearing this one KJ and Williams want to run through a wall for her.

You have 2 seniors that have busted their tails for 4 years. Its time to build them up and not tear them down. Do you think they tried to make those fouls? They just made some bad plays hustling for their team.

Save the negative stuff for the locker room in private. The players already feel bad enough after a loss and suffering through the worst season of their careers.

We already know KJ's on court response to her public shaming after the NC State game, in which she was referred to as "low IQ."

3 pts, 1 reb, zero assists, 1 steal, 2 TO's and 4 fouls. 30 minutes, zero assists. Pretty clear McCallie is shaming her again, since it clearly worked so well.

You take a kid who has busted her butt for this team. A kid who agreed to play PG despite showing no aptitude for it at the Div 1 college level. Why would she agree to do this? Because that is exactly what her coach said her team needed her to do. Heck, she's getting a Duke degree. She can review the stats. Did she say "Um, no, I think I've shown I can't play PG." No, she has put forth supreme effort for the good of the team. Her reward? Public shaming. Some kids might respond to public shaming by getting so mad, it leads to complete focus and superior performance. Many kids, however, respond as KJ has done, with the worst performance of her career and looking demoralized. After coaching KJ for four years, you'd think McCallie would know how KJ would respond. It's her job to know how each player will respond. Every coach has to figure out what each player responds to in order to maximize performance. Does she somehow think if shaming once gets you worse performance, that further shaming would somehow get you something different?

[duke09hms]

Here is what Coach P said in her interview that I thought was inappropriate and negative (yet again).

"We've got people with zero assists, played 30 minutes. I mean thats almost unheard of." I wonder how KJ is feeling after that one.

2nd quote "Our leadership has been really really poor. I mean you can't have 2 seniors, I don't know of any team in the country that has 2 seniors on the bench with foul trouble like we do." I'm sure after hearing this one KJ and Williams want to run through a wall for her.

You have 2 seniors that have busted their tails for 4 years. Its time to build them up and not tear them down. Do you think they tried to make those fouls? They just made some bad plays hustling for their team.

Save the negative stuff for the locker room in private. The players already feel bad enough after a loss and suffering through the worst season of their careers.

Irresponsible. Public criticism can be done well, but this is borderline personal. Conduct unbecoming of a head coach.

[Kedsy]

Here is the quote being referred to in the above paragraph: “It’s amazing to me how easily we were taken out of things,” McCallie said. "They’re a pretty physical team. They do a nice job. But [we need to] just focus and be focused. Some people focus on themselves and focus on what they didn’t do rather than what they can do for the team. It’s very frustrating."

Here's my viewpoint on this statement - though using the word "we," it seems to me she's talking about the players and that she, herself is not included in the "we." This is more clear in the last part "some people focus on themselves" which seems to imply she's referring to other people. However, who is the one person in the program whose JOB is to not let the team "get easily taken out of things?" It is not anybody else's JOB to keep them from being "easily taken out of things. The responsibility for making adjustments goes 100% to the head coach. The players' job is to execute the adjustments, assuming they've learned how to carry them out in practice. The players' job is to try to do what the coach asks of them. If the coach is not devising the adjustments to make, if the players to do it themselves, then they're not following the coach's instructions. Do we really want the players taking it upon themselves to figure out and execute their own adjustments?

Just give it a rest, will you? You don't have to tell us in order for us to know what your viewpoint is. My viewpoint is you can probably find similar statements to the above in press conferences at one time or another from almost every basketball coach in the world.


We already know KJ's on court response to her public shaming after the NC State game, in which she was referred to as "low IQ."

3 pts, 1 reb, zero assists, 1 steal, 2 TO's and 4 fouls. 30 minutes, zero assists.

I don't think we "know" anything of the kind. Putting aside whether Coach P's remarks constitute a "public shaming" or not, we know Ka'lia's stats for the game and that's it. To say her performance was a "response" to anything is a stretch, even for you. There's absolutely no evidence of cause and effect here.

[JBDuke]

I have had to delete several posts from this thread due to inappropriate discussions, and I've issued one infraction. I could easily have handed out several more.

It is against our Posting Guidelines to bash a Duke coach, player, or staff member. It is very much against our Guidelines to call for the firing of a coach. It is also against our Guidelines to wildly speculate about motivations, feelings, or what is going on behind closed doors, especially when doing so puts a coach, player, or staff member in a negative light.

The Duke WBB team is going through a very tough stretch, due to a confluence of issues. For the fans of the team, it's a very tough time. This does NOT give you permission to come onto these boards and bash the coach, the players, the AD, or anyone else for that matter.

Furthermore, if you feel the need to respond to someone else's post, do so in a civil manner, and address the content of the posts. Personal attacks are also prohibited.

Several of you have already received infractions, warnings, or PMs from moderators about your posting behavior on these topics. Please heed these warnings, or you will find your ability to post here curtailed or permanently suspended. If you don't like it, find somewhere else to post your thoughts. There is no shortage of online locations that will happily take your traffic.

And, as a further reminder, it is also not appropriate to discuss moderator actions in public posts. If you have a question, send a PM to a moderator. You'll find them listed at the bottom of the thread list for each forum.

[Newton_14]

Here is the quote being referred to in the above paragraph: “It’s amazing to me how easily we were taken out of things,” McCallie said. "They’re a pretty physical team. They do a nice job. But [we need to] just focus and be focused. Some people focus on themselves and focus on what they didn’t do rather than what they can do for the team. It’s very frustrating."

Here's my viewpoint on this statement - though using the word "we," it seems to me she's talking about the players and that she, herself is not included in the "we." This is more clear in the last part "some people focus on themselves" which seems to imply she's referring to other people. However, who is the one person in the program whose JOB is to not let the team "get easily taken out of things?" It is not anybody else's JOB to keep them from being "easily taken out of things. The responsibility for making adjustments goes 100% to the head coach. The players' job is to execute the adjustments, assuming they've learned how to carry them out in practice. The players' job is to try to do what the coach asks of them. If the coach is not devising the adjustments to make, if the players to do it themselves, then they're not following the coach's instructions. Do we really want the players taking it upon themselves to figure out and execute their own adjustments?

I totally disagree with you. When you want and absolutely lust for finding an issue with something or someone, you are darn sure going to find it. There is nothing Coach P can do as a coach during a game, or say in a presser after a game, that is going to satisfy you. That's the reality and I am sorry if you can't see that. I have no emotional tie here and I am neither "all for" or "all against" Coach P, so its a bit easier for me to be objective. There were some in this thread that were anticipating bad commentary in the presser an hour before it even happened. It is not humanly possible to have that mindset and then objectively view the presser.

Nevertheless, here is the bottom line folks. These threads are first and foremost to discuss the games with civility, and how the team played, and yes to a lesser extent how well the coaching staff did. That said, DBR has set forth the rules that all of us must follow. Since it has gotten to the point where we have to question if some members have even read them (they are in a sticky thread at the top of the EK Forum. Please read them) I have pasted part of them in at the bottom of my post here. Per the rules that the SITE OWNERs set forth, and again, we all must follow, player bashing, coach bashing, and repetitive ranting is not allowed. Constructive criticism is allowed, and pointing out areas for improvement is allowed, but the guidelines and rules are crystal clear, and unfortunately, they are NOT being followed in any thread related to Women's Hoops. We have received several complaints lately that it is impossible to discuss Women's Hoops on this board anymore due to some posters insisting on running to every single thread to repeat ad nauseam the same ol tired rants bashing the current Women's Coach, her husband, and heck I am surprised her family pets have not been thrown under the bus and run over repeatedly at this point. For all the accusations of her throwing players under the bus, she will never match the tally of how many times she has been ripped to pieces here. If folks want to do nothing but trash the coach please take it elsewhere. Facebook is an excellent forum, where folks cannot hide behind an anonymous screenname. Rant away there. Stop doing it here. It's not a request.

From this point forward, any post in these threads violating DBR rules in the least, will receive an infraction and be deleted. This has to stop, if nothing else, for the sake of those that genuinely have an interest in following the team and discussing their games.

Here is a snippet from the site rules:
Medium infractions. Could be from Cat 3 to 5. Includes repeated minor infractions. You need to think about how your style fits with DBR.

You've clearly stepped over the line, and probably embarrassed or offended someone. Over the history of DBR, we've found these things tear at the very fabric of our community:

Destructively Negative. Oh, there are times when things aren't going Duke's way, and we want to discuss the loss or other less than pleasant issue. Its OK to be negative, but do so in a manner that is not destructive to the person (particularly players, staff, and their families). "Player X has to work on his rebounding" or "Player Y really has a low shooting percentage from three point range" is fine. "Player X couldn't rebound if he was the only player on the court," "Player Y jacks up nothing but airballs," "Player Z sucks and shouldn't wear a Duke uniform," "Player X won't have a place and should transfer," are all examples of Destructively Negative. We don't throw players under the bus here.

Venting. Related to Destructively Negative. If you're too emotional to post thoughtfully, don't post.

Incivility. You are free to disagree with other posters; all we ask that you respectfully disagree. Challenge the content of the post: point out flaws in their logic, dispute facts, or counter the argument respectfully. Attacking the poster by being snarky, name-calling, or engaging in a flame war is not tolerated. Avoid "gotcha" posts.

Invasive. While we all would like to know all about our favorite players, prospects, and coaches, please keep extremely personal details to yourself. This includes stalkerish behavior like detailed sightings on campus or in the community ("he was eating a sandwich while walking down main quad and had a Target bag in his hand"), first/second hand stories of student life (particularly when they aren't particularly flattering), or on their facebook or Twitter (pointing out a relevant message now and then is fine -- reposting everything they say is stalkerish). We've all done things we regret and wouldn't want the world to share. Again, we're not a tabloid. Post only relevant, news-worthy info.

Self promotion. Members come here primarily for dialog about Duke Basketball and related topics. They don't come here to read shameless self promotion. If your business or blog fits into the discussion, that's great - if you also provide content. But don't start or hijack threads with a "read my blog" or "buy my product, here's a link" posts. We're not a link farm.

Baiting the Moderators. The volunteer mods have the FULL support of the owners of DBR. Infractions are final and not subject to debate on the public boards. You may (civilly) discuss the policies, but do not attack the mods or policies.

[aswewere]

This year, Duke has five regular season ACC losses with one game remaining. The last time Duke lost more than four regular season ACC contests was the 96-97 season at 9-7.

Duke will finish either fourth or sixth in the 2015 ACC regular season standings depending on Sunday's result. Their last finish below third place was that same 5th place effort in the 96-97 season (albeit in a 9 team ACC).

The fourth seed for Duke would result in a double bye, playing Friday at 11 AM vs. #5 Syracuse (unless defeated by the #12/13 winner)

The sixth seed for Duke would be a single bye, opening Thursday night at 8 PM vs. the winner of #11/#14. Candidates for the #11 seed are NC State, Virginia, and Georgia Tech. Should Duke win that matchup, the reward would be #3 seed Louisville at 8 PM Friday.

Duke also has eight road losses this season, sitting at 5-8. The last Duke team to lose as many as eight road games was the 92-93 team, which was 4-8 on the road in a 12-15, 3-13 ACC (9th place) campaign