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wgl1228
02-21-2015, 09:06 PM
With just a few weeks left I think it's time to begin discussing the ACC POY. Most pundits are down to Jerian Grant and Jahlil Okafor. I personally think Quinn Cook should now be in the discussion. The award seems to go to the most valuable player rather than the best player which is why I think Okafor will be shut out. Grant and Notre Dame are a very likable team but here's to a good finish by the Duke guys.

Newton_14
02-21-2015, 09:12 PM
With just a few weeks left I think it's time to begin discussing the ACC POY. Most pundits are down to Jerian Grant and Jahlil Okafor. I personally think Quinn Cook should now be in the discussion. The award seems to go to the most valuable player rather than the best player which is why I think Okafor will be shut out. Grant and Notre Dame are a very likable team but here's to a good finish by the Duke guys.

I personally think it's already over and Jahlil wins in a landside. Almost every pundit says all the time he is the best player in the Country. I think he is the odds on favorite to win both ACC and National POY, unless the ankle keeps him out longer than I am expecting. (I think he plays at Va Tech)

gurufrisbee
02-21-2015, 09:16 PM
I think Grant will win. Okafor and Cook probably split some support between the two of them.

Wahoo2000
02-21-2015, 09:16 PM
I personally think it's already over and Jahlil wins in a landside. Almost every pundit says all the time he is the best player in the Country. I think he is the odds on favorite to win both ACC and National POY, unless the ankle keeps him out longer than I am expecting. (I think he plays at Va Tech)

The only thing that can stop Okafor at this point would be the combination of an extended absence and Cook continuing to go just ape-poo on everybody. Could lead to a "split" in the Duke vote and Grant winning despite taking WAY less votes than the Duke players combined.

MCFinARL
02-21-2015, 09:25 PM
The only thing that can stop Okafor at this point would be the combination of an extended absence and Cook continuing to go just ape-poo on everybody. Could lead to a "split" in the Duke vote and Grant winning despite taking WAY less votes than the Duke players combined.

This sounds reasonable--but I think another factor is that Okafor could so easily be rookie of the year, leaving the player of the year slot for Grant.

BlueDevilBrowns
02-21-2015, 10:07 PM
This sounds reasonable--but I think another factor is that Okafor could so easily be rookie of the year, leaving the player of the year slot for Grant.

Yep.

My prediction is Okafor gets ACC ROY and National POY but misses out on ACC POY due to splitting votes with Cook and, to a lesser extent, the anti-Triangle bias by some of the conference voters.

My guess is Grant will win ACC POY.

OldPhiKap
02-21-2015, 10:25 PM
Yep.

My prediction is Okafor gets ACC ROY and National POY but misses out on ACC POY due to splitting votes with Cook and, to a lesser extent, the anti-Triangle bias by some of the conference voters.

My guess is Grant will win ACC POY.

I think this is right in all regards.

duketaylor
02-21-2015, 10:37 PM
I think Okafor wins all 3. Simple in my mind. He's just been dominant. Many don't feel Cook will even be 1st-team All-ACC. I think Tyus will likely be 2nd, maybe 3rd. Cook should be 1st or 2nd, but certainly not POY.

dukelifer
02-22-2015, 07:56 AM
With just a few weeks left I think it's time to begin discussing the ACC POY. Most pundits are down to Jerian Grant and Jahlil Okafor. I personally think Quinn Cook should now be in the discussion. The award seems to go to the most valuable player rather than the best player which is why I think Okafor will be shut out. Grant and Notre Dame are a very likable team but here's to a good finish by the Duke guys.

Quinn may be the MVP of the team but not the league. Let's see how it plays out but he could get first team- but more likely 2nd team. He leads the league in FT percentage and is creeping up in pts/game. I keep forgetting how deep this league is. Grant is very good and is the top 5 in several key categories -but I just never think of him. I don't think Okafor will win POY either- particularly if he is out another game. ROY is a lock- 1st team all ACC is probable. Jones may get 3rd team but that will be tough- lots of good guards out there - again much will depend on the stretch run.

sagegrouse
02-22-2015, 08:15 AM
I think Okafor wins all 3. Simple in my mind. He's just been dominant. Many don't feel Cook will even be 1st-team All-ACC. I think Tyus will likely be 2nd, maybe 3rd. Cook should be 1st or 2nd, but certainly not POY.

Why wouldn't Cauley-Stein get strong consideration as NPOY?

TKG
02-22-2015, 08:15 AM
Somewhere Caulton Tudor and Art Chansky are in a smoked filled room, sponsored by the Charlotte Observer, whipping votes for Marcus Paige.

MCFinARL
02-22-2015, 08:40 AM
Why wouldn't Cauley-Stein get strong consideration as NPOY?

He probably should--although the depth of talent on Kentucky might, perversely, hurt him. The two names that seem to be talked about the most are Okafor and Frank Kaminsky.

BobBender
02-22-2015, 09:23 AM
With just a few weeks left I think it's time to begin discussing the ACC POY. Most pundits are down to Jerian Grant and Jahlil Okafor. I personally think Quinn Cook should now be in the discussion. The award seems to go to the most valuable player rather than the best player which is why I think Okafor will be shut out. Grant and Notre Dame are a very likable team but here's to a good finish by the Duke guys.

Nice thought about Cook, but not a chance in hell. Brogdon will get some votes because he pretty much does everything well for the first place team.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-22-2015, 09:42 AM
My two cents....

Okafor sweeps the ACC POY, ROY, 1st team. He's the most dominate player in the league.

Nationally, it's a dog fight between him and Kaminski and I think Okafor has the edge now due to more Duke exposure to voters. If Kaminski has a great tourney, and Duke exits earlier than expected or the injury slows him down, Kaminski might steal it...he's really good too.

Bluedog
02-22-2015, 09:48 AM
My two cents....

Okafor sweeps the ACC POY, ROY, 1st team. He's the most dominate player in the league.

Nationally, it's a dog fight between him and Kaminski and I think Okafor has the edge now due to more Duke exposure to voters. If Kaminski has a great tourney, and Duke exits earlier than expected or the injury slows him down, Kaminski might steal it...he's really good too.

I think NPOY is voted on before the NCAA tournament...I believe they announce it sometime during the tourney, so NCAA tournament performance is not able to be taken into consideration. I could be slightly off with the timing though...

Faustus
02-22-2015, 09:55 AM
To be honest, I like the idea of a college senior winning National POY, so I would not at all mind Kaminski winning that. His improvement over four years, and importance to his team, has been tremendous, and it would be healthy for the college game to see that celebrated over a one-and-done, talented and terrific a player as he may be. National ROY - without a doubt Okafor, and I'm very proud as a Duke fan to have had him play here this year, with great things still to come.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-22-2015, 09:57 AM
I think NPOY is voted on before the NCAA tournament...I believe they announce it sometime during the tourney, so NCAA tournament performance is not able to be taken into consideration. I could be slightly off with the timing though...

If that's the case, I'd say Okafor sweeps everything.

kmspeaks
02-22-2015, 10:23 AM
To be honest, I like the idea of a college senior winning National POY, so I would not at all mind Kaminski winning that. His improvement over four years, and importance to his team, has been tremendous, and it would be healthy for the college game to see that celebrated over a one-and-done, talented and terrific a player as he may be. National ROY - without a doubt Okafor, and I'm very proud as a Duke fan to have had him play here this year, with great things still to come.

This is the line of thinking that has me in arguments in our high school coaches all conference meetings. The award is not called the NPWFMICBNA (that's national player who fits my ideal college basketball narrative award) it's National Player of the Year. If you think Frank Kaminsky has been a better player than Jahlil Okafor THIS season then that's fine, but this isn't some sort of career achievement award. It belongs to the best player this year and the fact that one guy is a freshman and the other a senior should have absolutely no bearing on the vote.

cptnflash
02-22-2015, 10:29 AM
Barring anything weird happening over the next 3 weeks, I think Jerian Grant wins the ACC POY, and Kaminsky wins NPOY. Jah is probably the best pro prospect in college basketball and is likely to be the #1 pick as long as his ankle injury is just a sprain. But as good as he's been offensively this year, Grant and Kaminsky have both been a bit better (more minutes, higher usage rates, and greater efficiency), and both appear to be better defensively as well. Admittedly, defense is much tougher to measure, but Kaminsky has been a better shot blocker and defensive rebounder, Grant's steal rate is very high, and neither is as routinely criticized for their defense as Jah has been.

I also think they'll both get "extra credit" for how their teams performed without them:

Last year, when Grant was suspended for academics, Notre Dame went 6-12 in conference. This year, with him, they're 12-3.

Kaminsky missed one game earlier this year with a concussion, and without him Wisconsin lost to Rutgers. With him, they're 25-1.

Meanwhile, without Jah we beat Clemson by 22. Somewhat perversely, I think the longer Jah is out and the better we play without him, the less chance he has of winning any POY awards.

duketaylor
02-22-2015, 10:41 AM
Oak 17.9 pts. 9.4 reb

Cauley-Stein 9.3ppg 6.3reb (3rd on team in ppg)

Kaminsky 17.7ppg 8.3reb (Duke won at Wisky, Oak 13/6, Kaminsky 17/9)

I don't think Cauley-Stein's as much a consideration as Kaminsky.

CDu
02-22-2015, 10:49 AM
Barring anything weird happening over the next 3 weeks, I think Jerian Grant wins the ACC POY, and Kaminsky wins NPOY. Jah is probably the best pro prospect in college basketball and is likely to be the #1 pick as long as his ankle injury is just a sprain. But as good as he's been offensively this year, Grant and Kaminsky have both been a bit better (more minutes, higher usage rates, and greater efficiency), and both appear to be better defensively as well. Admittedly, defense is much tougher to measure, but Kaminsky has been a better shot blocker and defensive rebounder, Grant's steal rate is very high, and neither is as routinely criticized for their defense as Jah has been.

I also think they'll both get "extra credit" for how their teams performed without them:

Last year, when Grant was suspended for academics, Notre Dame went 6-12 in conference. This year, with him, they're 12-3.

Kaminsky missed one game earlier this year with a concussion, and without him Wisconsin lost to Rutgers. With him, they're 25-1.

Meanwhile, without Jah we beat Clemson by 22. Somewhat perversely, I think the longer Jah is out and the better we play without him, the less chance he has of winning any POY awards.

It isn't the most valuable player to his team award. It is the award for the league's best player.

vick
02-22-2015, 11:02 AM
Oak 17.9 pts. 9.4 reb

Cauley-Stein 9.3ppg 6.3reb (3rd on team in ppg)

Kaminsky 17.7ppg 8.3reb (Duke won at Wisky, Oak 13/6, Kaminsky 17/9)

I don't think Cauley-Stein's as much a consideration as Kaminsky.

Yeah as much as I'd love for a guy known for defense to be POY, I think it's between Kaminksy and Okafor unless something really unexpected happens in the next couple of weeks. I also think Kaminsky probably has a better shot, and frankly rightly so, although there's still plenty of time for that to change.

As for ACC POY, it's Grant and Okafor, no disrespect to Cook who will likely get no serious consideration. I'd pick Grant right now but it's awfully close in my eyes.

ChillinDuke
02-22-2015, 11:27 AM
While I admit that it's not 100%, I'd be pretty shocked if Okafor did not win ACC POY.

Seems clear to me.

NPOY is a bit trickier.

- Chillin

duketaylor
02-22-2015, 12:08 PM
http://espn.go.com/ncb/notebook/_/page/woodenwatch150219/okafor-chasing-kaminsky

Obviously, I disagree.

Cauley-Stein not even mentioned.

jhmoss1812
02-22-2015, 12:17 PM
If Okafor doesn't win ACC ROY, ACC POY and NCAA POY, then people are just spinning things to support a certain narrative that they support. He's the most dominant player in college basketball. That is not a slight to Grant or Kaminsky. They are great players. But no one is better than Okafor, which is not surprising since he's the consensus #1 draft pick next year.

vick
02-22-2015, 01:01 PM
If Okafor doesn't win ACC ROY, ACC POY and NCAA POY, then people are just spinning things to support a certain narrative that they support. He's the most dominant player in college basketball. That is not a slight to Grant or Kaminsky. They are great players. But no one is better than Okafor, which is not surprising since he's the consensus #1 draft pick next year.

Who cares whether he will be the #1 pick for this discussion? Jason Richardson was drafted higher than Shane Battier in 2001. Freakin' Tyrus Thomas was drafted higher than J. J. Redick in 2006. NBA draft stock shouldn't enter this discussion at all.

And you're kidding yourself if you think Kaminsky doesn't deserve to be up there with Okafor. Their stats are more or less the same (Okafor 17.9/9.4/1.4 on 65% true shooting, Kaminsky 17.7/8.3/2.5 on 63% true shooting) on teams that have been almost equal. Factor in the fact that Wisconsin plays slow (deflating Kaminsky's stats) and Kaminsky is a better defender, and the case for Kaminsky is quite viable. Now, I think it's close enough that reasonable people could say that Okafor has been better, but in no way should a Kaminsky win be seen as force-fitting any sort of narrative.

cptnflash
02-22-2015, 02:08 PM
It isn't the most valuable player to his team award. It is the award for the league's best player.

Yes, thus my main argument that Grant will win because he's been better offensively and defensively. When I said extra credit for his effect on team performance, I meant exactly that - extra credit.

cptnflash
02-22-2015, 02:14 PM
If Okafor doesn't win ACC ROY, ACC POY and NCAA POY, then people are just spinning things to support a certain narrative that they support. He's the most dominant player in college basketball. That is not a slight to Grant or Kaminsky. They are great players. But no one is better than Okafor, which is not surprising since he's the consensus #1 draft pick next year.

Pomeroy's kPOY formula is completely devoid of narratives - it's just math. It currently has Jah ranked 7th for POY.

I'm not saying his (or any other) quantitative formula is definitive... just pointing out that the cases for other candidates for NCAA POY don't have to be narrative-driven to be perfectly valid.