MBB: Duke 78, Clemson 56 Post-Game Thread [Archive]

arnie

02-21-2015, 06:36 PM

Surprisingly easy game- I was expecting a tighter and uglier game but Duke started to run and Winlsow was the man early and Cook started hitting late. Cook has been just great all year. The kid is having a great senior year. Allen played his best game and showed what he can do. He can be a big asset driving the ball and getting to the line. Marshall was active and had a number of big plays. All in all, a tremendous team win.

Think Oak can break back into the starting rotation when ankle fully recovers?

77devil

02-21-2015, 06:37 PM

Mr. Allen, keep this up and you will be referred to as DEPTH.

Matt Jones and Plumlee has ehh games.

Agree with this. If Grayson keeps it up, he'll take a lot of minutes from Matt Jones. Amile had the fewest minutes in the rotation.

Bob Green

02-21-2015, 06:41 PM

Marshall Plumlee played 24 minutes with a stat line of 3 points, 3 rebounds and 3 fouls. That's close to non-existent.

Furniture

02-21-2015, 06:42 PM

Agree with this. If Grayson keeps it up, he'll take a lot of minutes from Matt Jones. Amile had the fewest minutes in the rotation.

Grayson's +\- numbers were much better than Matts and I thought his D was pretty good. It's good to be developing that depth. Grayson will be a very good player for Duke for many years to come....

Native

02-21-2015, 06:42 PM

Thought everyone — coaches, players, and fans — did a great job of avoiding the hangover effect from the UNC game.

I know K told the team that they were fighting "human nature" today — I think we beat the crap out of it.

Furniture

02-21-2015, 06:44 PM

And watching K is always amazing. Wow, there are no superlatives left!

What about when he grabbed or almost back slapped Jefferson in the huddle? What was up with that?

Billy Dat

02-21-2015, 06:45 PM

This feels like a huge win. Despite our heroic comebacks against tough competition, we have not had easy games against the middle to bottom of the conference. Granted, Jah being out should result in focus, but, let's rewind that sentence to focus on the key element...JAH was out!!!! The guy who is the focus of everything we do on offense.

Epic game for K with the zone and motivation.

Grayson Allen shows what he can do with some extended minutes.

Winslow and Cook with big games.

This team continues to evolve, it's very exciting!!!

ChillinDuke

02-21-2015, 06:46 PM

What a statement game for the players themselves. To prove they have the chops to beat a solid, almost NCAA team sans Big Jah.

I imagine that was the fire Dickie V and O'Brien were talking about from K pre game. I assume K wanted the players to step up and command that moment. Take that moment. And they authoritatively did.

Other than Notre Dame this felt like our most commanding win of the ACC season. Maybe BC? I dunno - this felt pretty dominant from midway in the first half onward.

And just a beautiful, Quinn tessential senior game for Quinn. It had the vibe of a Senior Night. Just a really nice game for the team. Yet another wonderful memory from this season.

If Quinn Cook is not first team all ACC, people should lose their votes.

He had a wonderful game today. But who, pray tell, should be left off first team for Quinn to get on? Grant? Christmas? Harrell? Paige? Hanlan? Certainly not The Big Oak?

Okafor, Grant, and Christmas seem like locks. Hanlan leads the league in scoring, is essentially top 5 in APG, and 8th in steals per game. So probably a lock too. Harrell? Paige? Rozier is 3rd in PPG. Jekiri is over 10 boards per game which is pretty impressive although not worthy of 1st team in and of itself.

And what about Tyus? Or even Justise?

And I'm sure I'm missing someone.

- Chillin

gcashwell

02-21-2015, 06:47 PM

Marshall Plumlee played 24 minutes with a stat line of 3 points, 3 rebounds and 3 fouls. That's close to non-existent.

He didn't have a great game, but they don't use him in a way that he is able to accumulate stats. Setting picks on offense and hedging on defense doesn't do much for you individually.

I've been pretty critical of the coaching staff for the last three years, but today's gameplan was as good as I have ever seen from any coach.

Saratoga2

02-21-2015, 06:51 PM

We had a good game plan. Certainly the loss of Jahlil was of some concern. Do any of the medical experts on the site have a guess when he will be back? Will he make the VT game?

Anyhow, great games by Justise and Quinn. They played like stars today and played with passion. Like others have mentioned, Grayson played very well. He was everywhere hustling on defense, made some shots and free throws and made some quick accurate passes. To do that, he has to be thinking the game and know where people will be. Love his unselfishness as well. While Tyus had a good total of assists, I didn't this was one of his better games. I don't know how many turnovers he had, but his decision making was not as good as it has been of late.

Marshall did well for him. Good to see him in the game and providing energy. Great to have a backup center that can come in and perform. I don't know what is going on with Jefferson. He really didn't do much out there and really hasn't been doing much offensively now for a number of games. We need more from Him. Matt was valuable defensively and I think scored on one drive and one three point shot out of 5.

When we go small we have an advantage since with have 4 players who can outplay almost any other teams best 4 small players. Onward we go!

DukeDiva

02-21-2015, 06:51 PM

May have to give Coach K MOTM today, he was so animated and full of energy today! Game was a complete joy to watch, everyone played well and there was no mugging under the basket. First game in quite awhile that I didn't yell at the TV asking where the foul was. Everyone played their roles well today. Perfect example of why college basketball is my favorite season of the year.

Orange&BlackSheep

02-21-2015, 06:53 PM

He didn't have a great game, but they don't use him in a way that he is able to accumulate stats. Setting picks on offense and hedging on defense doesn't do much for you individually.

I've been pretty critical of the coaching staff for the last three years, but today's gameplan was as good as I have ever seen from any coach.

The Coaching staff will sleep easier tonight to know that they are now in your good graces lol.

It was so great to have a game to relax and enjoy after Wednesday.

O&B Sheep

DukieInBrasil

02-21-2015, 07:01 PM

What a statement game for the players themselves. To prove they have the chops to beat a solid, almost NCAA team sans Big Jah.

I imagine that was the fire Dickie V and O'Brien were talking about from K pre game. I assume K wanted the players to step up and command that moment. Take that moment. And they authoritatively did.

Other than Notre Dame this felt like our most commanding win of the ACC season. Maybe BC? I dunno - this felt pretty dominant from midway in the first half onward.

And just a beautiful, Quinn tessential senior game for Quinn. It had the vibe of a Senior Night. Just a really nice game for the team. Yet another wonderful memory from this season.

He had a wonderful game today. But who, pray tell, should be left off first team for Quinn to get on? Grant? Christmas? Harrell? Paige? Hanlan? Certainly not The Big Oak?

Okafor, Grant, and Christmas seem like locks. Hanlan leads the league in scoring, is essentially top 5 in APG, and 8th in steals per game. So probably a lock too. Harrell? Paige? Rozier is 3rd in PPG. Jekiri is over 10 boards per game which is pretty impressive although not worthy of 1st team in and of itself.

And what about Tyus? Or even Justise?

And I'm sure I'm missing someone.

- Chillin

Cook has higher PPG and has higher %s in all shooting categories, as well as higher RPG. Paige leads in assists and they are about even in A:T (Paige had a marvelous 10:0 today).
There's no reason to give it to Paige and not Cook, except to have someone, at least one UNC player on All-ACC 1st team.
Cook is trending up lately and Paige has been about average for him. If Cook finishes stronger than Paige, he should mos def get it.

wsb3

02-21-2015, 07:04 PM

What a great game plan by Coach & staff & what great effort by the players. I thought going in being without Okafor could actually help. Bring the intensity & focus up and the players knew they had leave UNC in the rear view mirror. Wise move to sit him out & have him full strength for the stretch run.

What another poster said.. Coach K for MOTM. But boy did Winslow get us off in the first half. Love what I am seeing from Grayson Allen. They cut it to 10 on that 8-0 run in the first half & Cook hit the 3& I think Grayson hit one the next trip & we were back in control.

Great week to be a Duke fan. Makes for a happy Saturday night. Couple of cold beers to toast the week. Still can't believe we are playing zone.

Dukehky

02-21-2015, 07:05 PM

Cook has higher PPG and has higher %s in all shooting categories, as well as higher RPG. Paige leads in assists and they are about even in A:T (Paige had a marvelous 10:0 today).
There's no reason to give it to Paige and not Cook, except to have someone, at least one UNC player on All-ACC 1st team.
Cook is trending up lately and Paige has been about average for him. If Cook finishes stronger than Paige, he should mos def get it.

Okafor, Christmas, Grant for sure

I would not put Harrell on the first team, nor would I put Paige on first team.

For me, it would be Rozier and Cook, because Hanlan's team sucks. QC could put up 20 a game for BC too. Rozier would be my next closest sure fire guy because without his 17 a game, Ville would never score more than 50 points. I think Louisville is the most overrated team in the country though.

Anderson should be on this list, but he has missed and will have missed too many games to be eligible for First Team, IMO.

CDu

02-21-2015, 07:09 PM

What a statement game for the players themselves. To prove they have the chops to beat a solid, almost NCAA team sans Big Jah.

I imagine that was the fire Dickie V and O'Brien were talking about from K pre game. I assume K wanted the players to step up and command that moment. Take that moment. And they authoritatively did.

Other than Notre Dame this felt like our most commanding win of the ACC season. Maybe BC? I dunno - this felt pretty dominant from midway in the first half onward.

And just a beautiful, Quinn tessential senior game for Quinn. It had the vibe of a Senior Night. Just a really nice game for the team. Yet another wonderful memory from this season.

He had a wonderful game today. But who, pray tell, should be left off first team for Quinn to get on? Grant? Christmas? Harrell? Paige? Hanlan? Certainly not The Big Oak?

Okafor, Grant, and Christmas seem like locks. Hanlan leads the league in scoring, is essentially top 5 in APG, and 8th in steals per game. So probably a lock too. Harrell? Paige? Rozier is 3rd in PPG. Jekiri is over 10 boards per game which is pretty impressive although not worthy of 1st team in and of itself.

And what about Tyus? Or even Justise?

And I'm sure I'm missing someone.

- Chillin

Paige has no business being in the discussion for first-team All-ACC this year. He is a very good player having a so-so year.

I would go Okafor, Grant, Christmas, Rozier, Harrell/Brogdon.

2nd team would be Brogdon/Harrell, Hanlan, Connaughton, Cook, Lacey.

Third team would be Tyus Jones, Devin Thomas, Anderson (would be higher but is hurt), Winslow, McLellan.

Honorable mention: Gill, Auguste, Artis, Paige, Chris Jones

vick

02-21-2015, 07:11 PM

Okafor, Christmas, Grant for sure

I would not put Harrell on the first team, nor would I put Paige on first team.

For me, it would be Rozier and Cook, because Hanlan's team sucks. QC could put up 20 a game for BC too. Rozier would be my next closest sure fire guy because without his 17 a game, Ville would never score more than 50 points. I think Louisville is the most overrated team in the country though.

Anderson should be on this list, but he has missed and will have missed too many games to be eligible for First Team, IMO.

Putting Paige on the first team would be ludicrous. And it is truly amazing that Brogdon's name somehow didn't come up here. One day, hopefully, people will care about defense.

uh_no

02-21-2015, 07:16 PM

anecdotally....we played a lot of zone tonight....except at the start of the game and the start of the second half...coincidence those were clemson's two biggest scoring periods (aside from the last 3-4 minutes of garbage time)?

does anyone out there have numbers on relative efficiencies in different defensive sets? It seems to me that we're much worse when playing man than zone....but i've also learned not to trust my eyes.

Dukehky

02-21-2015, 07:16 PM

Putting Paige on the first team would be ludicrous. And it is truly amazing that Brogdon's name somehow didn't come up here. One day, hopefully, people will care about defense.

Brogdon was clearly the second best player on the best team (record-wise) in the conference. He may be their most important player, but just because Anderson is hurt, doesn't mean that someone from UVA has to get put on first team All ACC. I think Brogdon is unequivocally a 2nd teamer and was all along but he averages 13, 4, 3. I think he may be the conference DPOY.

If you think Brogdon and Anderson were first teamers, then you have an argument. I would disagree with it, but Anderson was an obvious first team guy before injury.

Neals384

02-21-2015, 07:23 PM

Quinn finally went to the bench at 1:16, ending his consecutive minutes streak at 163:44.

uh_no

02-21-2015, 07:25 PM

Quinn finally went to the bench at 1:16, ending his consecutive minutes streak at 163:44.

his "complete baller" streak, however, continues unbroken.

azzefkram

02-21-2015, 07:33 PM

Nice win by the good guys. Quinn and Justise had monster games. Grayson stepped up nicely. Tyus had some nice assists but was a tad drive happy. MP3 was underwhelming in the stats department but I thought he defended and screened well which if I had to guess is what's expected of him. Matt was exceptionally meh. Amile... well I just don't have words. He can be so good.

Newton_14

02-21-2015, 07:44 PM

Awesome game plan, great execution, great game. I wish we would press more like that to be honest. Like I said on the podcast a few weeks back if you get Winslow going downhill toward the rim you can't stop the guy. Quinn was great and that was the quietest 27 points, like ever. When they said he had 20, I was like, "What?". The guy has had an awesome year. If he plays like this to the house I love our chances.

Grayson finally looked like he fully belonged out there today with no hesitation or tentativeness. I predicted to myself at one point he was going to secure one of those steal attempts and go coast to coast for a gym rocking, rim rocking slam but twas not to be. I will say this though, one, the guy is a player, and will help this team greatly the next 3 seasons, and two, for all of his offensive skills, the guy is going to be a top notch defender and rebounder before all is said an done. He attacks the glass on defense for rebounds just as relentlessly as he does on offense when trying to score. Very fun player to watch.

I was super nervous without Jahlil, and it is still nuts we only have two scholarship subs at the moment, (it looked like a rec league bench when 2 or 3 guys had to work late and could not make the game), but K worked his magic in a big way today, and the players executed the game plan flawlessly almost.

Amile had a bit of a rough outing, but all in all the guys played really well today. Overcoming the aftermath of the rivalry game, overcoming the loss of Okafor, and finally overcoming a 2 man bench, was a testament to the staff and the players.

Anyone not pleased with today's game needs a mental health check.

Finally, it gives Jahlil more time to let the ankle heal, and buying more time for the big fella to get healthy without dropping a game is great.

Go Duke!

DukeDevil

02-21-2015, 07:46 PM

Do any of the medical experts on the site have a guess when he will be back? Will he make the VT game?

There's a lot of variability with this, and without being able to examine the ankle myself it's very hard to say. The fact that he was able to get back in and continue playing in the UNC game is a very good sign though, but having treated as well as experienced multiple ankle sprains, it can be very difficult to tell what the next week will bring. Once the swelling goes up and the bruising sets it, it can be excruciatingly painful the next day, far worse than the initial day of the injury. I suspect that, even if he could have played today, the staff was looking at the long game and wanted him to heal up as much as possible. I suspect he should be fine for UNC, but he's likely to be 50/50 for V-Tech depending on how the swelling and bruising was. He may be physically able to play for VT, but he may not have enough days of active play on the ankle in practice ahead of the game that he would feel stable and safe on it, and hesitancy with a recently sprained ankle often can result in re-injury as you become more awkward in your movements (one of those "the most common cause of falls is fear of falling" situations).

uh_no

02-21-2015, 07:50 PM

There's a lot of variability with this, and without being able to examine the ankle myself it's very hard to say. The fact that he was able to get back in and continue playing in the UNC game is a very good sign though, but having treated as well as experienced multiple ankle sprains, it can be very difficult to tell what the next week will bring. Once the swelling goes up and the bruising sets it, it can be excruciatingly painful the next day, far worse than the initial day of the injury. I suspect that, even if he could have played today, the staff was looking at the long game and wanted him to heal up as much as possible. I suspect he should be fine for UNC, but he's likely to be 50/50 for V-Tech depending on how the swelling and bruising was. He may be physically able to play for VT, but he may not have enough days of active play on the ankle in practice ahead of the game that he would feel stable and safe on it, and hesitancy with a recently sprained ankle often can result in re-injury as you become more awkward in your movements (one of those "the most common cause of falls is fear of falling" situations).

K said he hopes he can go wednesday...not that that means he will (since you always hope your presumptive future #1 pick can play), but that there's at least a fighting chance.

gurufrisbee

02-21-2015, 07:54 PM

I'm okay giving Okafor another day off. I feel solid after today about our chances of winning at VT even without him and I want him 100% for the tourney.

Is there a MOTM thread? I have no idea if to give it to Cook, Winslow, or Allen but I'm excited to vote for someone!

I'm a little surprised there isn't an all ACC team prediction thread, too.

devildeac

02-21-2015, 08:02 PM

That's about as fun as it gets. Great team victory. Absolutely loved seeing how this team stood up.

10 from Allen off the bench. 47 points between Cook and Winslow. 9 assists from Jones.

Love it.

But, but, but, Cook and T. Jones gave up 56 points.

:rolleyes:;)

Tripping William

02-21-2015, 08:03 PM

But, but, but, Cook and T. Jones gave up 56 points.

:rolleyes:;)

No kidding, right? I mean, Cook could have won the game almost single-handedly if Tyus would have been chained to the bench until the final 1:16. :rolleyes:

trinity92

02-21-2015, 08:06 PM

With VT's typical bruising style, I'd like to see Jah on the bench for that game unless he is absolutely, positively 100%

Troublemaker

02-21-2015, 08:09 PM

Matt Jones and Plumlee has ehh games.

Matt did his usual yeomen's work with defense, rebounding, and general hustle. He just missed a ton of open shots today, and admittedly, his misses are ugly sometimes.

Marshall was more the "meh" to me (although Coach K complimented him on his play, so I'm probably just asking for too much). I thought Marshall was out of position a few times and didn't protect the basket like I would've hoped.

Agree with this. If Grayson keeps it up, he'll take a lot of minutes from Matt Jones. Amile had the fewest minutes in the rotation.

I'm a huge Grayson fan, and I've believed from the beginning that he would perform well as the 5th perimeter player after Sheed was dismissed. He's starting to show that ability, but I don't expect he'll be taking too many minutes from Matt. Coach K loves Matt's defense and toughness (as he should); I watch as many interviews as I can, and Matt has received more unsolicited praise from Coach over the past two seasons than any player.

anecdotally....we played a lot of zone tonight....except at the start of the game and the start of the second half...coincidence those were clemson's two biggest scoring periods (aside from the last 3-4 minutes of garbage time)?

I don't remember this being the case. I thought we started with zone both halves. Maybe you're thinking of us matching up in man in transition. (Or maybe you're right. I would have to check the replay, but I didn't notice the periods of m2m at the beginning of the halves.)

gcashwell

02-21-2015, 08:09 PM

The Coaching staff will sleep easier tonight to know that they are now in your good graces lol.

It was so great to have a game to relax and enjoy after Wednesday.

O&B Sheep

K called me earlier to ask if I was pleased. I told him that I was, so he should be fine.

This team is tough. There seems to be great chemistry between the players and coaches that has been lacking.

I like it!

Troublemaker

02-21-2015, 08:12 PM

I wish we would press more like that to be honest.

The 2-2-1 zone press today worked better than all the token man pressing that we've done over the past couple of seasons combined.

Newton_14

02-21-2015, 08:14 PM

Matt did his usual yeomen's work with defense, rebounding, and general hustle. He just missed a ton of open shots today, and admittedly, his misses are ugly sometimes.

Marshall was more the "meh" to me (although Coach K complimented him on his play, so I'm probably just asking for too much). I thought Marshall was out of position a few times and didn't protect the basket like I would've hoped.

I'm a huge Grayson fan, and I've believed from the beginning that he would perform well as the 5th perimeter player after Sheed was dismissed. He's starting to show that ability, but I don't expect he'll be taking too many minutes from Matt. Coach K loves Matt's defense and toughness (as he should); I watch as many interviews as I can, and Matt has received more unsolicited praise from Coach over the past two seasons than any player.

I don't remember this being the case. I thought we started with zone both halves. Maybe you're thinking of us matching up in man in transition. (Or maybe you're right. I would have to check the replay, but I didn't notice the periods of m2m at the beginning of the halves.)

I thought we played zone wire to wire as well. Will have to watch it again to see if we went man any at all. Don't recall it though. Vitale was having the guys in the truck to check to see if this was the first game in K's history where he played zone wire to wire.

uh_no

02-21-2015, 08:15 PM

I don't remember this being the case. I thought we started with zone both halves. Maybe you're thinking of us matching up in man in transition. (Or maybe you're right. I would have to check the replay, but I didn't notice the periods of m2m at the beginning of the halves.)

and this is why i don't trust myself :) especially watching live.

i THOUGHT i remembered first seeing a 3-2 when they were at 11 or 13 or so.....but definitely remember us being man before K called the timeout in the second half, and then coming back in zone.

I did notice the 2-2-1 press that we were applying.

Tripping William

02-21-2015, 08:16 PM

I thought we played zone wire to wire as well. Will have to watch it again to see if we went man any at all. Don't recall it though. Vitale was having the guys in the truck to check to see if this was the first game in K's history where he played zone wire to wire.

I recall at least one man-to-man possession, in the second half, but there certainly wasn't much of it.

sagegrouse

02-21-2015, 08:16 PM

He [Quinn] had a wonderful game today. But who, pray tell, should be left off first team for Quinn to get on? Grant? Christmas? Harrell? Paige? Hanlan? Certainly not The Big Oak?

Okafor, Grant, and Christmas seem like locks. Hanlan leads the league in scoring, is essentially top 5 in APG, and 8th in steals per game. So probably a lock too. Harrell? Paige? Rozier is 3rd in PPG. Jekiri is over 10 boards per game which is pretty impressive although not worthy of 1st team in and of itself.

And what about Tyus? Or even Justise?

And I'm sure I'm missing someone.

- Chillin

Okafor is first team. Grant makes it. Christmas should make it -- but he needs to do better against Okafor on the return match.

Hanlan doesn't make first team. His team has won one conference game. Also, the preponderance of the AP voters are in North Carolina, and BC gets little exposure there.

Paige is a second team selection, unless he blows up in the last four games.

I gotta believe Virginia gets someone on first team -- Brogdon.

That leaves one position: Quinn, Rozier? I dunno, guys, but Quinn may make the first team. Tyus is probably third team, and Justise is a wild card.

jv001

02-21-2015, 08:16 PM

Matt did his usual yeomen's work with defense, rebounding, and general hustle. He just missed a ton of open shots today, and admittedly, his misses are ugly sometimes.

Marshall was more the "meh" to me (although Coach K complimented him on his play, so I'm probably just asking for too much). I thought Marshall was out of position a few times and didn't protect the basket like I would've hoped

I'm a huge Grayson fan, and I've believed from the beginning that he would perform well as the 5th perimeter player after Sheed was dismissed. He's starting to show that ability, but I don't expect he'll be taking too many minutes from Matt. Coach K loves Matt's defense and toughness (as he should); I watch as many interviews as I can, and Matt has received more unsolicited praise from Coach over the past two seasons than any player...

Matt will get his minutes because of his defense and hustle. He's a very streaky shooter and that probably comes from his shooting form. But Coach K seems to love him because you're right about the praise he receives from Coach K. I'm wondering if some of that praise is to build up Matt's confidence. Same with MPIII. As for Grayson, I remember what Jim Sumner said earlier in the season, If I'm not mistaken Jim said that Coach K had great confidence in Grayson being a very good player. We're seeing glimpses of that now. GoDuke!

tbyers11

02-21-2015, 08:27 PM

I recall at least one man-to-man possession, in the second half, but there certainly wasn't much of it.

I agree with Tripping William. I recall one possession of man-to-man D in the second half. It was out of a timeout and I think Rod Hall scored on a runner driving to the right side of the basket from the top of the key. Looking at the play-by-play it appears to be after the first TV timeout of the 2nd half at 14:53.

timmy c

02-21-2015, 09:21 PM

Okafor is first team. Grant makes it. Christmas should make it -- but he needs to do better against Okafor on the return match.

Hanlan doesn't make first team. His team has won one conference game. Also, the preponderance of the AP voters are in North Carolina, and BC gets little exposure there.

Paige is a second team selection, unless he blows up in the last four games.

I gotta believe Virginia gets someone on first team -- Brogdon.

That leaves one position: Quinn, Rozier? I dunno, guys, but Quinn may make the first team. Tyus is probably third team, and Justise is a wild card.

Brogdon is a good choice, but Anthony Gill has played well too. He needs to be in the conversation.

zoroaster

02-21-2015, 10:17 PM

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but from what Bilas and Dan Shulman said during the Carolina game, Quinn matched Trajan Langdon's Duke record of 37 consecutive games with a made 3 in this game, the Clemson game. Pretty impressive stuff.

Henderson

02-21-2015, 10:38 PM

I think that was Brandon Ingram in the gray hoodie right behind the Duke bench, seated between a couple people who looked like parents. Good game for them to watch.

I expected this to be a closer game. Lots of intensity out there by everyone. It sure is fun to have lots of good players, isn't it?

I thought Marshall played a lot better than his stat line would suggest.

FerryFor50

02-21-2015, 10:48 PM

Thought this game would be closer, especially with no Jahlil. Glad it wasn't.

Cook played bonkers today. Winslow, too.

This sums up how I felt after the first half...

4793

blueduke59

02-21-2015, 11:26 PM

Marshall Plumlee played 24 minutes with a stat line of 3 points, 3 rebounds and 3 fouls. That's close to non-existent.

looks like Jefferson would have gotten more minutes.

fgb

02-22-2015, 09:39 AM

Marshall Plumlee played 24 minutes with a stat line of 3 points, 3 rebounds and 3 fouls. That's close to non-existent.

amile played 16 minutes, with 2 points, 2 turnovers, and zero everything else.

Bob Green

02-22-2015, 09:48 AM

amile played 16 minutes, with 2 points, 2 turnovers, and zero everything else.

Yep, I commented on Jefferson in the MOTM thread:

I am not convinced Jefferson is 100 percent healthy. He has struggled since being mauled in the St. John's game.

roywhite

02-22-2015, 09:49 AM

Justise had a monster first half yesterday, doing some of the things he does best, grabbing rebounds, playing good defense, and especially getting to the basket.

Seems like he does best when he has some room to operate, either in transition or in the half-court when things are spread out. Does the presence of Jahlil in the low post, and the defensive attention he draws, actually inhibit Justise's ability to drive to the basket? Trying to figure out how best to continue to give Winslow good scoring opportunities. He's a serious weapon on the drive.

gocanes0506

02-22-2015, 09:49 AM

Billy Dat

02-22-2015, 10:17 AM

Awesome game plan, great execution, great game. I wish we would press more like that to be honest. Like I said on the podcast a few weeks back if you get Winslow going downhill toward the rim you can't stop the guy. Quinn was great and that was the quietest 27 points, like ever. When they said he had 20, I was like, "What?". The guy has had an awesome year. If he plays like this to the house I love our chances.

Justise had a monster first half yesterday, doing some of the things he does best, grabbing rebounds, playing good defense, and especially getting to the basket.
Seems like he does best when he has some room to operate, either in transition or in the half-court when things are spread out. Does the presence of Jahlil in the low post, and the defensive attention he draws, actually inhibit Justise's ability to drive to the basket? Trying to figure out how best to continue to give Winslow good scoring opportunities. He's a serious weapon on the drive.

I read both coaches post game comments and went back to watch the decisive run during the final 10 minutes of the first half. A few things jumped out related to the comments you guys made (above) which I agree with.

Brownell said he didn't know Jah wasn't playing until he saw him in street clothes. Therefore, he prepared a completely different gameplan, one that likely did not include facing much zone, especially since we played zero zone against UNC.

Clemson found the middle of the zone, or that long diagonal pass from the 3 point area to the low block a few times, but they settled for a lot of outside shots which missed and jump started many fast breaks.

We are fantastic in transition, especially Justise, and I think that had Clemson managed to keep us in a halfcourt game, as they did for a lot of the first 10 minutes of the game, we'd have wound up in a 1-2 basket game like we did in the first 10 minutes. Our halfcourt offense sans Jah was weak, as one would expect. The zone and different press looks led to transition, which was great game-planning by K.

InSpades

02-22-2015, 11:30 AM

If you told me Grayson would play more minutes than Amile this game... I would have been shocked! Really thought this would be a game for Amile to step up but he basically split time w/ Marshall (and Marshall got the lion's share). Not sure what is up w/ Amile... he has flashes of brilliance every now and then but just can't seem to reproduce it (and his minutes have suffered). The team played great... I just wish Amile had a bigger part in it, he seems like such a great kid.

As for the rest of the game... I of course echo what everyone else has already said. Great game plan by K, wonderful execution by the boys. To win so easily w/out Jah... from a team already so decimated in the depth department is super impressive. Great win!

wavedukefan70s

02-22-2015, 12:51 PM

It seems that the team is gelling better than earlier in the season.I expected us to have a harder time against clemson.simply impressive.

Olympic Fan

02-22-2015, 12:54 PM

I recall at least one man-to-man possession, in the second half, but there certainly wasn't much of it.

Brad Brownell said Duke played one possession of man-to-man ... Clemson scored against it ... and Duke went back to zone.

They did change the zone quite a bit, switching from the 2-3 to the 3-2 and obvious extending the zone with the 2-1-2 and the 1-2-2 zone press (three-quarter court).

Henderson

02-22-2015, 01:01 PM

If you told me Grayson would play more minutes than Amile this game... I would have been shocked! Really thought this would be a game for Amile to step up but he basically split time w/ Marshall (and Marshall got the lion's share). Not sure what is up w/ Amile... he has flashes of brilliance every now and then but just can't seem to reproduce it (and his minutes have suffered). The team played great... I just wish Amile had a bigger part in it, he seems like such a great kid.

If Amile had a jump shot, he'd be recognized as an elite player. But that limiting factor exposes him. What he brings is leadership, defense, and hustle, three qualities that stat lines don't reflect well, but which are still important and valued.

roywhite

02-22-2015, 01:18 PM

If Amile had a jump shot, he'd be recognized as an elite player. But that limiting factor exposes him. What he brings is leadership, defense, and hustle, three qualities that stat lines don't reflect well, but which are still important and valued.

I'll admit to occasional daydreams about plugging in Jabari Parker at the "4" spot in this year's lineup. Quinn and the four talented teenagers would be an offensive juggernaut.

duke74

02-22-2015, 01:30 PM

They did change the zone quite a bit, switching from the 2-3 to the 3-2 and obvious extending the zone with the 2-12 and the 1-20-2 zone press (three-quarter court).

No wonder we were able to apply so much pressure! :) Sorry, OF, couldn't resist. All smiles today...

Chillduck

02-22-2015, 03:29 PM

We were in a 2-3 zone when Plumlee was in the game and a 3-2 zone when he was out.

uh_no

02-22-2015, 05:11 PM

Brad Brownell said Duke played one possession of man-to-man ... Clemson scored against it ... and Duke went back to zone.

They did change the zone quite a bit, switching from the 2-3 to the 3-2 and obvious extending the zone with the 2-12 and the 1-20-2 zone press (three-quarter court).

well there we have it on the defensive breakup. we should never play man again!

anyway, the 2-3/3-2 seemed rather fluid at times, where the ball was, and who had it, one of the wings would come up a bit further....and that IMO is how a zone should be anyway...very fluid...as it indicates the players are all on the same page as to what areas of the floor need to be covered, and who needs to do it.

NYBri

02-22-2015, 05:27 PM

Not quite up to Syracuse's standards, but we have the players to be effective in the zone when we need it...and yesterday, it was effective and led to a ton of transition opportunities.

Loving the way this team seems to be able to follow a multitude of game plans.

Neals384

02-22-2015, 09:18 PM

I recall at least one man-to-man possession, in the second half, but there certainly wasn't much of it.

Someone mentioned upthread that they play man for one possession after the first media timeout, 2nd half. That is correct - just checked.

Kedsy

02-22-2015, 09:35 PM

Loving the way this team seems to be able to follow a multitude of game plans.

And the way Coach K seems to keep coming up with different game plans to follow.

I'll admit to occasional daydreams about plugging in Jabari Parker at the "4" spot in this year's lineup. Quinn and the four talented teenagers would be an offensive juggernaut.

But possibly a defensive nightmare.

uh_no

02-22-2015, 09:43 PM

And the way Coach K seems to keep coming up with different game plans to follow.

But possibly a defensive nightmare.

Still curious about why we didn't zone more against UNC....but the only thing I can think of is K is finding a multitude of situations he can put the team in to force us to figure out how to win. If there's a team we can't zone, we're going to have to man up.

I don't know if that's the reason...as K has always claimed to never compromise wins now for wins later (at least as game planning is concerned), but it's a tactic I see geno use all the time and one that I think is really worthwhile, especially when you possibly have to win 6 games playing 6 different styles of ball.

I think even more, it does an amazing amount of credit to the team, especially the freshmen, who have adapted, in my opinion, far better than our last two crops of 1 and done's have. There was a lot of ragging on K in those years for not adjusting the defense, and I among those doing it. I would probably arrive at the same conclusion in real time, but in hindsight, it is possible that they tried to roll in some zone last year (or 3 years ago) and the players simply couldn't deal with it. IMO it takes a lot more discipline than man, and it's possible those teams couldn't adapt to it well enough.

Now if coach K could come up with a game plan to get UVA to lose two more games so we can win the ACC "championship" :P

CDu

02-22-2015, 10:17 PM

Still curious about why we didn't zone more against UNC....but the only thing I can think of is K is finding a multitude of situations he can put the team in to force us to figure out how to win. If there's a team we can't zone, we're going to have to man up.

I don't know if that's the reason...as K has always claimed to never compromise wins now for wins later (at least as game planning is concerned), but it's a tactic I see geno use all the time and one that I think is really worthwhile, especially when you possibly have to win 6 games playing 6 different styles of ball.

I think even more, it does an amazing amount of credit to the team, especially the freshmen, who have adapted, in my opinion, far better than our last two crops of 1 and done's have. There was a lot of ragging on K in those years for not adjusting the defense, and I among those doing it. I would probably arrive at the same conclusion in real time, but in hindsight, it is possible that they tried to roll in some zone last year (or 3 years ago) and the players simply couldn't deal with it. IMO it takes a lot more discipline than man, and it's possible those teams couldn't adapt to it well enough.

Now if coach K could come up with a game plan to get UVA to lose two more games so we can win the ACC "championship" :P

My guess is the reason for man-to-man vs UNC was twofold: (1) he didn't want to give Paige easy opportunities to shoot, and (2) he didn't want to make it even easier for UNC to own the glass.

But UNC had a field day using the high pick and roll (even Britt was getting uncontested driving layups) against man-to-man, and UNC pounded the boards anyway.

-jk

02-22-2015, 10:35 PM

[Zone...]IMO it takes a lot more discipline than man, and it's possible those teams couldn't adapt to it well enough. a game plan to get UVA to lose two more games so we can win the ACC "championship" :P

Uh, no. As K teaches man, it's more complicated than a zone. The minute adjustments to cover both your own man and the other four isn't simple. It's part of the problem we're having with young teams.

-jk

Newton_14

02-22-2015, 10:44 PM

My guess is the reason for man-to-man vs UNC was twofold: (1) he didn't want to give Paige easy opportunities to shoot, and (2) he didn't want to make it even easier for UNC to own the glass.

But UNC had a field day using the high pick and roll (even Britt was getting uncontested driving layups) against man-to-man, and UNC pounded the boards anyway.

You beat me to the punch but I will add one more point, (3) K would rather give up 2's than 3's. It was imperative, especially with how the game evolved, that we not let Unc hit a fair amount of 3's on us, which would have made the hole we dug too deep to dig out of. Although our zone is getting better, we still give up a lot of good looks from 3, and though unc is not a great shooting team, they are capable, especially Paige. I think not letting Paige kill us was the main motivator, but we have seen poor unc shooters have career nights behind the line in Cameron. (See Frasor, Bobby).

The zone was perfect against Clemson as they cannot shoot at all. Same for Louisville. I fear teams like Syracuse, Miami, State, and possibly even unc would kill us from 3 if we zoned them. It only takes one guy getting hot and unc has that guy in Paige.

martydoesntfoul

02-23-2015, 02:54 AM

(1) This team is not going to get bounced early in the Tournament. K has shown a willingness this year to spread innovation/experimentation to the defensive end. So no more '10 minutes left and we can't stop anybody' nightmares.

(2) K loves this team, and is sensing a big Tournament run... his intensity is palpable.

(3) It's been said before but I'll say it again: the transformation of QC is the stuff of legends.

GD! 9F!

Selover

02-23-2015, 10:38 AM

Prior to the Clemson game, I had been to three games in Cameron (a couple Christmas break games and Fairfield earlier this year), but this was my first ACC game. I'm still trying to find my voice!

After the game we decided to grab a bite. About ten minutes into our meal, I notice Quinn walking towards our table! I stopped him to tell him good game and ask if I quit grab a picture with him. About 20 minutes after Quinn left, I see Nolan walking towards us!

Both guys were incredibly nice and were happy to stop for a quick picture with me. Talk about feeling like a kid in a candy store :D!

FerryFor50

02-23-2015, 10:46 AM

jimsumner

02-23-2015, 11:48 AM

I don't remember Duke going m2m against Clemson. But I may have missed it. It occurs to me that we have to go back to 1982 to find a time when we had to notice whether Duke was playing a zone or not or what kind of zone Duke was playing. We're on a steep learning curve here.

Life used to be so much simpler.

Duvall

02-23-2015, 12:49 PM

lotusland

02-23-2015, 03:51 PM

I agree that he didn't want Paige to go off, but I still think they should have sprinkled in a few zone looks to keep UNC honest and out of the paint. In fact, I'd have rather seen Paige go off than a balanced game from the rest of the Holes.

UNC pushed the ball on every missed shot and turnover and they were very effective in the open court so I would say that should be the main focus for improvement on defense in the rematch but, with that said, I agree we should zone them in their half court sets. Unlike Duke they do not have a dynamic offense that can hurt you from anywhere. They want to post, slash to the basket and get stick backs. I would try a junk zone where we pack it in tight and only come out on Paige. Sure Meeks and Jonson can hit a 15-footer but I'd let them have it. Let James, Hicks and Meeks shoot over Okafor standing flat footed. At all costs force them to shoot over the top and box out. I think they would be totally frustrated by that and would end up turning the ball over and committing charges in attempt to get to the rim.

jv001

02-23-2015, 04:36 PM

UNC pushed the ball on every missed shot and turnover and they were very effective in the open court so I would say that should be the main focus for improvement on defense in the rematch but, with that said, I agree we should zone them in their half court sets. Unlike Duke they do not have a dynamic offense that can hurt you from anywhere. They want to post, slash to the basket and get stick backs. I would try a junk zone where we pack it in tight and only come out on Paige. Sure Meeks and Jonson can hit a 15-footer but I'd let them have it. Let James, Hicks and Meeks shoot over Okafor standing flat footed. At all costs force them to shoot over the top and box out. I think they would be totally frustrated by that and would end up turning the ball over and committing charges in attempt to get to the rim.

The zone keeps us from being beaten off the dribble, but it weakens us on the defensive boards. We've also let the opponent get the ball into the lane around the free throw line and Johnson can hit that shot. I thought we did a decent job in our man2man until the ball was shot but then we didn't rebound the ball to finish the defensive stand. In a zone it could be worse. However I like the way Justise has been going to the boards. He's rebounding like a true PF and if he can keep it up, we might be ok in either the zone or man2man. The thing that worries me most is our not getting back on defense. This almost cost us the first game against the heels. GoDuke!

lotusland

02-23-2015, 05:03 PM

The zone keeps us from being beaten off the dribble, but it weakens us on the defensive boards. We've also let the opponent get the ball into the lane around the free throw line and Johnson can hit that shot. I thought we did a decent job in our man2man until the ball was shot but then we didn't rebound the ball to finish the defensive stand. In a zone it could be worse. However I like the way Justise has been going to the boards. He's rebounding like a true PF and if he can keep it up, we might be ok in either the zone or man2man. The thing that worries me most is our not getting back on defense. This almost cost us the first game against the heels. GoDuke!

We should rebound better out of junk zone that is packed in tight. I don't mind if johnson hits few from the foul line. Let him have it but block out and rebound the misses.

jv001

02-23-2015, 05:09 PM

We should rebound better out of junk zone that is packed in tight. I don't mind if johnson hits few from the foul line. Let him have it but block out and rebound the misses.

You could be right, but I don't think Coach K is going to pack a zone in tight. He hates giving up three pointers and seems intent on keeping Paige from going off on us. I'm sure Coach K will have something up his sleeve to beat the uncheaters. GoDuke!

KandG

02-23-2015, 05:17 PM

I was at Cameron for the first time in a very, very long time, and did not have high expectations for the crowd given that it was the game after the Carolina emotion-fest, making a letdown seem almost inevitable, plus Jah was not playing. Plus there have been constant comments on this board that Cameron isn't what it used to be.

I was further discouraged when the non-student seating areas had a lot of empty seats as late as 20 minutes before tipoff.

But somehow, the place filled up, and as Coach K put it, the crowd ended up being terrific. Not Carolina-level great, but really really good given the circumstances and the overwhelmed opponent. I spoke to a few people who regularly attend games, and they were pleasantly surprised. They said the crowd in the home game vs Ga Tech was an example of a bad crowd...quiet, sitting on their hands, wondering why Duke wasn't blowing out Tech. The crowd on Saturday was super supportive of everyone on the team and very pumped up.

Watching Tyus in person is something...he looks small and slight, but his arms seem to telescope in every direction and he gets his hands in so many passing lanes. Was also mildly impressed by the impact Marshall had in his minutes on the floor, even though his stats were modest. Really contributed on defense and his ability to eat up space on that end was no small thing with the absence of Okafor.

Clemson did not look good attacking the press or the zone...they'd breach the first line of defenders then you'd see some tentativeness from the player who received the pass, or the gears moving slowly in their heads wondering what to do next, making it possible for Duke to recover quickly.

Grayson seemed to be one of the most popular players with the crowd, and it was certainly justified in this game. Glad to see his confidence growing. Quinn got the hugest ovation, for good reason. It's easy to take some of his drives in traffic for granted, but his ability to get those twisting floaters off against multiple defenders and have them drop so softly is something else.

Still not sure what's going on with Amile. From my seat, I had a real good view of a successful pick and roll he and Quinn ran, and his fundamentals in that area (setting the pick, rolling, sealing off defenders) are very strong...Marshall doesn't look quite as smooth in that area beyond a strong initial screen. But Amile seems to lose the ball more in traffic under the basket lately, and seems to get bullied around a bit more on defense. Hope it's just a temporary blip, like Justise's, that goes away soon.

fuse

02-23-2015, 05:31 PM

The zone keeps us from being beaten off the dribble, but it weakens us on the defensive boards. We've also let the opponent get the ball into the lane around the free throw line and Johnson can hit that shot. I thought we did a decent job in our man2man until the ball was shot but then we didn't rebound the ball to finish the defensive stand. In a zone it could be worse. However I like the way Justise has been going to the boards. He's rebounding like a true PF and if he can keep it up, we might be ok in either the zone or man2man. The thing that worries me most is our not getting back on defense. This almost cost us the first game against the heels. GoDuke!

It may be easy enough to disprove with real data, anecdotally I believe both Quinn and Tyus are getting a decent number of defensive boards from our guard positions. We appear to be sending everyone to the defensive glass instead of leaking out for fast break open opportunities.

DukieInBrasil

02-23-2015, 07:34 PM

It may be easy enough to disprove with real data, anecdotally I believe both Quinn and Tyus are getting a decent number of defensive boards from our guard positions. We appear to be sending everyone to the defensive glass instead of leaking out for fast break open opportunities.

Tyus is such a good long outlet passer that it's a good idea to send him to the boards, cuz he can pass it upcourt so fast. Quinn and Tyus are both pretty good on the break, attacking the basket, but Duke doesn't really have many good outlet passers other than Tyus, so i think it makes sense for them to crash the boards, particularly since limiting opponents' offensive rebounds can help make our mediocre defense substantially better. It's hard to fast break if you don't get the rebound.
When Justise gets a defensive board, it can pretty much turn into a 1-man fast break.
Duke has been much more aggressive and looking to fast-break as much as possible, even after made FGs, lately and it has made our offense much more efficient.