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SoCalDukeFan
02-20-2015, 12:07 PM
Its truly amazing the way things work in the NBA. Yesterday the 76ers got a first round draft pick for essentially nothing.

The 76ers were about $15 Million UNDER the NBA salary cap, which meant that they would have to pro-rate the $15 million among the players. Instead they acquired JaVale McGee from Denver and his $12 Million salary, which was a salary dump for Denver. For taking McGee Denver threw in a protected first round pick they had from the Thunder. Now the 76ers had to give up something, so they gave up the rights to Cenk Akyol, who was first drafted in 2005 and is playing in Turkey. It is very doubtful if he will ever play in the NBA. So the 76ers basically took $12 million from their players, threw in the rights to a guy who will never play in the NBA and got a 1st round pick.

The 76ers made other moves. They seem to have a "plan" of acquiring picks. At some point they gotta start trying to win.

SoCal

SoCalDukeFan
02-20-2015, 12:35 PM
Its truly amazing the way things work in the NBA. Yesterday the 76ers got a first round draft pick for essentially nothing.

The 76ers were about $15 Million UNDER the NBA salary cap, which meant that they would have to pro-rate the $15 million among the players. Instead they acquired JaVale McGee from Denver and his $12 Million salary, which was a salary dump for Denver. For taking McGee Denver threw in a protected first round pick they had from the Thunder. Now the 76ers had to give up something, so they gave up the rights to Cenk Akyol, who was first drafted in 2005 and is playing in Turkey. It is very doubtful if he will ever play in the NBA. So the 76ers basically took $12 million from their players, threw in the rights to a guy who will never play in the NBA and got a 1st round pick.

The 76ers made other moves. They seem to have a "plan" of acquiring picks. At some point they gotta start trying to win.

SoCal

The 767ers were under the NBA salary floor or minimum.

SoCal

InSpades
02-20-2015, 12:36 PM
At some point they have to try and win... right?

I get that they were probably losing KJ McDaniels at the end of the year... but they could've kept him around if they wanted (I believe he would've been a restricted free agent). Yes, he was just a 2nd round pick but he was a 2nd round pick that was outplaying his draft position.

MCW was the rookie of the year last year... no? He might not be great but there's not many PGs w/ his skill set. If he figures out how to become more efficient offensively (better FG% and lower turnovers) he could be your PG for the next 10 years.

Yes, there's a chance the draft pick you get for him becomes a super star... but much more likely it's a bust. I don't get it. Unless they just want to amass the most impressive list of draft picks imaginable... but I'm pretty sure that doesn't win games in the NBA. Look at Nerlens Noel... 6th overall, would have gone sooner if he wasn't hurt. The Sixers wish he was half as good as MCW. Not convinced Embid is going to be much better.

SoCalDukeFan
02-20-2015, 03:08 PM
being a year away.

Next year they again will be a year away from being a year away.

SoCal

BD80
02-20-2015, 07:52 PM
... The 76ers made other moves. ... At some point they gotta start trying to win.

SoCal

Have you ever seen Mel Brooks' "The Producers?"

The 6ers are the NBA version of Bialystock and Bloom

brevity
02-20-2015, 08:09 PM
Have you ever seen Mel Brooks' "The Producers?"

The 6ers are the NBA version of Bialystock and Bloom

Springtime for Hinkie?

devildeac
02-20-2015, 10:00 PM
being a year away.

Next year they again will be a year away from being a year away.

SoCal

I grew up less than 20 miles from center city Philadelphia. I've had to put up with this #$%^ misery for decades.

http://www.nytimes.com/1983/06/01/sports/76ers-win-nba-title-with-sweep-of-lakers.html


http://www.csmonitor.com/1980/0430/043037.html

"That led to the 1977–78 motto of "We owe you one", which would ultimately backfire when they lost in the conference finals that season to the Washington Bullets, who went on to win the NBA championship. In the next four seasons, the 76ers would fall short of the NBA Championship, even after Shue handed the coaching reins to former great Billy Cunningham. In the 1980 NBA Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers, they lost, four games to two. In Game Six, rookie Magic Johnson played center for the Lakers in place of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (who was out because of a sprained ankle sustained in Game Five) and scored 42 points. In the 1981 Eastern Conference Finals, the 76ers opened a 3–1 series lead over the Celtics only to see Boston come back and win the series in seven games. The following season, the 76ers again faced the Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals, and again jumped to a 3–1 series lead only to see Boston forge a 3–3 series tie. The 76ers were given little chance of winning as they faced the Celtics in Game Seven at Boston Garden. This time, they played angry but inspired basketball, pulling away to a 120–106 victory. In the game's closing moments, the Boston Garden fans began chanting "Beat L.A., Beat L.A.", an incredible moment in basketball history.[8] Although they lost in the NBA Finals, the 76ers began the 1982–83 season with great momentum. All they needed now was Moses to lead them to the promised land of the NBA championship."

I had forgotten when they finally won after their failed promise of a championship in 1976.


"Clap your hands everybody
For Philadelphia 76ers
Stomp your feet, everybody
For Philadelphia 76ers
Here they come, Philadelphia
On the run, Stand up and cheer
Number one, Philadelphia
Here they come, team of the year
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, Sixers
10,9,8,76ers
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, Sixers
10,9,8,76ers"

Brings back too many bad memories. I think I'm going to go take some cyanide now.:rolleyes:

weezie
02-20-2015, 10:51 PM
And Kyle is on his way to OKC to help Kevin D out....

JasonEvans
02-23-2015, 11:06 AM
Just had to post this article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/19/76ers-isaiah-thomas-sixers_n_6716108.html) about that brief fleeting moment when the Sixers almost actually acquired a legit NBA player. Whew, that was a close call!

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2632006/original.jpg

-Jason "by the way, KJ McDaniels (easily one of the best players on the Sixers) can barely get off the bench since being traded to the Rockets" Evans

Matches
02-23-2015, 11:15 AM
I find the 76ers current strategy utterly cynical. I have no problem with teams rebuilding and maybe suffering through a down year or two, but the 76ers have taken that to an entirely different level. Intentionally being awful for years on end is criminal when you're still expecting fans to come out, buy tickets and merchandise, and support you.

McDaniels was a terrific pick for them, a total steal - so they ship him away for more draft picks. If any of those picks work out, they'll trade them for more picks. It's like winning the lottery and then spending your winnings on lottery tickets.

By the time they've actually started trying to win again, the guys they're drafting now will be at the expiration of their rookie contracts.

NYBri
02-23-2015, 11:16 AM
I hope Okafor doesn't end up on Broad Street.

flyingdutchdevil
02-23-2015, 12:11 PM
I hope Okafor doesn't end up on Broad Street.

I'd rather have Okafor on the 76ers than the Lakers (probably 3-4 more years on Kobe trying to be the 'man' and stinting the growth of their other players) or the Knicks (some of the worst management in the NBA).

Scared to see Okafor in a Wolves jersey because that team doesn't know how to build a team (although Okafor and Wiggins complement each other). Wouldn't mind seeing the Oak on Orlando or Denver, but both of those teams need more talent to be threats.

Ideally, I want to see Okafor on the 76ers, just because he'd be the best offensive player from day 1.

FerryFor50
02-23-2015, 12:12 PM
Ideally, I want to see Okafor on the 76ers, just because he'd be the best offensive player from day 1.

Until they traded him for a half-used tube of toothpaste and a first round pick.

flyingdutchdevil
02-23-2015, 12:24 PM
Until they traded him for a half-used tube of toothpaste and a first round pick.

Come on. The 76ers would at least trade for a full tube of toothpaste. And Colgate brand, just to say they got the best on market.

JasonEvans
02-23-2015, 12:42 PM
I think the Sixers are going to start trying to win again in 2016-17. They probably sorta tank again next season (they are on the hook for Javale McGee's $12 mil salary next season but clear his cap space after that) as guys like Embiid and whoever they get in this draft learn the ropes a bit as rookies. Noel will just be in his 2nd full season. But, the year after their cap situation is incredibly favorable with no one on the books other than their talented rookie deals. I could see them signing a couple max or near max free agents to go with the youngsters they have stockpiled the past few years and suddenly being a real contender.

Then again, we still have no idea if Embiid or Noel will ever be all that good and, for the moment, they are banking on getting quality players with their draft picks. That's a very shaky strategy as we see "can't miss" guys at even the very top of the draft turn out to be NBA journeymen all the time.

-Jason "Hinkle says he doesn't want to win 30 or 40 games... he knows you need to be in the mid-upper 50s in wins to really be a contender... he won't try to win until he thinks he can get to that point" Evans

Kedsy
02-23-2015, 12:57 PM
I think the Sixers are going to start trying to win again in 2016-17. They probably sorta tank again next season (they are on the hook for Javale McGee's $12 mil salary next season but clear his cap space after that) as guys like Embiid and whoever they get in this draft learn the ropes a bit as rookies. Noel will just be in his 2nd full season. But, the year after their cap situation is incredibly favorable with no one on the books other than their talented rookie deals. I could see them signing a couple max or near max free agents to go with the youngsters they have stockpiled the past few years and suddenly being a real contender.

Then again, we still have no idea if Embiid or Noel will ever be all that good and, for the moment, they are banking on getting quality players with their draft picks. That's a very shaky strategy as we see "can't miss" guys at even the very top of the draft turn out to be NBA journeymen all the time.

-Jason "Hinkle says he doesn't want to win 30 or 40 games... he knows you need to be in the mid-upper 50s in wins to really be a contender... he won't try to win until he thinks he can get to that point" Evans

For what it's worth, next season's 76ers marketing campaign is supposedly "It starts now," implying that they're at least going to try to win a little next season.

Matches
02-23-2015, 01:03 PM
I think the Sixers are going to start trying to win again in 2016-17. They probably sorta tank again next season (they are on the hook for Javale McGee's $12 mil salary next season but clear his cap space after that) as guys like Embiid and whoever they get in this draft learn the ropes a bit as rookies. Noel will just be in his 2nd full season. But, the year after their cap situation is incredibly favorable with no one on the books other than their talented rookie deals. I could see them signing a couple max or near max free agents to go with the youngsters they have stockpiled the past few years and suddenly being a real contender.


Problem is that the salary cap is going to go way up right around that time, so everyone's going to have money to spend. Having a favorable cap situation doesn't help much if everyone else does too. Hinkle will have to convince marquee FAs to join a franchise that will, by that point, have been a dumpster fire for years.

NSDukeFan
02-23-2015, 08:34 PM
For what it's worth, next season's 76ers marketing campaign is supposedly "It starts now," implying that they're at least going to try to win a little next season.

Does "it" refer to rebuilding, trying to field a competitive team, trying to win the draft?

Kedsy
02-23-2015, 08:56 PM
Does "it" refer to rebuilding, trying to field a competitive team, trying to win the draft?

Assuming you're serious (and I suppose you have every right not to be), I believe the intent of the slogan is to show they plan to start competing in 2015-16. Despite this, as someone else noted, it's more likely they can be competitive in 2016-17.

SCMatt33
02-23-2015, 09:40 PM
Here's my take on it as a casual Sixers fan. When you're the 8 seed in the Stanley Cup playoffs, you have a shot at winning the Stanley Cup. When you're the 6 seed in the NFL playoffs, you have a shot at the Super Bowl. When you're the last wild card in baseball, you have a shot at the World Series. When you're the 8 seed, or really 6 or 7 seed, in the NBA playoffs, you have pretty much no shot at winning the NBA championship. It's a huge deal when those teams win a single series. In today's day and age where the best players put themselves on the same team, it's impossible to win a championship without stars. In a four team city that has exactly one championship in the past 32 years, that's all that matters. When the Sixers spent 5-7 years in the post Iverson era scraping by as 7 and 8 seeds, attendance dropped significantly. Everyone knew that those teams were just about as likely to win a title as this years team; it wasn't going to happen. Philly had sort of the perfect storm for this experiment. You have city that right now values a championship over a steady product. You have four teams in town, which makes having down years more tolerable with other sports to distract you (this sort of thing wouldn't work as well in OKC or Utah). You also have a fan base that was frustrated with mediocrity and ready for change. All of those thing led to a fan base that is more accepting of this strategy.

Even with the level that the Sixers have fallen to, most don't blame them for doing it. They have to acquire a star to win and to do it, you either need enough cap room for multiple stars (like the Knicks with Melo and Amare in spite of how poorly it worked) or another star with whom players can join (like Dwayne Wade, Kyrie, or Blake Griffin). The last way to do it is via the draft. Tanking is nothing new. San Antonio dealt carefully with a David Robinson injury back in the Stone Age to draft Tim Duncan. The Warriors spent years in the dumps before they got this team to where it is. They didn't go for the number one pick every year, but they also Missed the playoffs for 18 of 19 years before they got the guys to turn it around. There's no guarantee that what the Sixers are doing will ever work, but I do believe that this is the best shot they have at winning a championship within the next decade, as they've proven over the last few cycles that top talent won't go there willingly without someone to build around.

JasonEvans
02-23-2015, 10:11 PM
When you're the 8 seed, or really 6 or 7 seed, in the NBA playoffs, you have pretty much no shot at winning the NBA championship.

I know it is a pretty unusual situation to cause this, but it seems like everyone believes the #8 seed Oklahoma City Thunder would have an excellent chance to win the NBA title.

-Jason "but I get your drift -- the Hawks were cursed with mediocrity for a loooong time, winning 40-48 games a year is a bad place to be in the NBA" Evans

Dev11
02-24-2015, 11:43 AM
Here's my take on it as a casual Sixers fan. When you're the 8 seed in the Stanley Cup playoffs, you have a shot at winning the Stanley Cup. When you're the 6 seed in the NFL playoffs, you have a shot at the Super Bowl. When you're the last wild card in baseball, you have a shot at the World Series. When you're the 8 seed, or really 6 or 7 seed, in the NBA playoffs, you have pretty much no shot at winning the NBA championship. It's a huge deal when those teams win a single series. In today's day and age where the best players put themselves on the same team, it's impossible to win a championship without stars. In a four team city that has exactly one championship in the past 32 years, that's all that matters. When the Sixers spent 5-7 years in the post Iverson era scraping by as 7 and 8 seeds, attendance dropped significantly. Everyone knew that those teams were just about as likely to win a title as this years team; it wasn't going to happen. Philly had sort of the perfect storm for this experiment. You have city that right now values a championship over a steady product. You have four teams in town, which makes having down years more tolerable with other sports to distract you (this sort of thing wouldn't work as well in OKC or Utah). You also have a fan base that was frustrated with mediocrity and ready for change. All of those thing led to a fan base that is more accepting of this strategy.

Even with the level that the Sixers have fallen to, most don't blame them for doing it. They have to acquire a star to win and to do it, you either need enough cap room for multiple stars (like the Knicks with Melo and Amare in spite of how poorly it worked) or another star with whom players can join (like Dwayne Wade, Kyrie, or Blake Griffin). The last way to do it is via the draft. Tanking is nothing new. San Antonio dealt carefully with a David Robinson injury back in the Stone Age to draft Tim Duncan. The Warriors spent years in the dumps before they got this team to where it is. They didn't go for the number one pick every year, but they also Missed the playoffs for 18 of 19 years before they got the guys to turn it around. There's no guarantee that what the Sixers are doing will ever work, but I do believe that this is the best shot they have at winning a championship within the next decade, as they've proven over the last few cycles that top talent won't go there willingly without someone to build around.

On the flip side, teams generally don't leap from picking in the lottery to proven contender in one season. There are usually some seasons in between when the core of the team matures together, barring the addition of huge pieces (i.e. Lebron to the Heat).

Li_Duke
02-24-2015, 12:51 PM
His current draft assets are:
Their 2015 draft pick (currently will fall between 1 and 6)
The 2015 top-5 protected Lakers pick (currently will fall between 1-7). Only top 3 protected in 2016/2017 and unprotected in 2018.
The 2015 Heats pick (mid first rounder)
The 2015 Thunder pick (mid first rounder)

That's potentially Okafor, Winslow, Jones, and a guy like Devin Booker. Add to that current assets in Embiid, Saric, Noel, and Robert Covington and I think they have a lot of promise. Especially once you consider that they pay almost nothing for that roster (since everyone is on rookie contracts) and can add multiple good players in free agency.

In regards to the Carter-Williams trade; would you rather have Carter-Williams or a guy like Winslow?

SCMatt33
02-24-2015, 12:56 PM
On the flip side, teams generally don't leap from picking in the lottery to proven contender in one season. There are usually some seasons in between when the core of the team matures together, barring the addition of huge pieces (i.e. Lebron to the Heat).

You're absolutely right on that. That's why I said that this was the best chanance of winning within a decade. At some point you have to hit on at least a perennial all star, if not a hall of famer through the draft. Since before the days of Magic and Larry, there's only one champion, the '04 Pistons, that didn't have a player like that. Whether it's D-Wade, Dirk, Tim Duncan, Kobe, Paul Pierce, MJ, Isaiah Thomas, Magic or Larry Bird, that kind of guy has always been there. They weren't always the best player on the team, but they were usually at least the second best. Does MCW strike you as that kind of guy? What are the chances of him becoming that vs. the 6-7 pick this year or 4-7 pick next year? I don't know. It's certainly a huge risk, but no one reasonably thinks that they could contend for a title until at least 2020 anyway so if the Sixers MCW wasn't "the guy" they probably got mad value for him while he still has time on his rookie deal vs. gambling on his dropoff from last year to this year being a fluke. Certainly they have to try at some point, but as far away as they are, they can still tank for now, especially if anti tanking rules are coming soon

SoCalDukeFan
02-25-2015, 07:53 PM
On the flip side, teams generally don't leap from picking in the lottery to proven contender in one season. There are usually some seasons in between when the core of the team matures together, barring the addition of huge pieces (i.e. Lebron to the Heat).

While the 76ers have assets etc. the problem I see is that great players may win games but generally great teams win championiships, especially in basketball. At some point you gotta build the team and let it develop.

SoCal

darthur
02-25-2015, 11:58 PM
ESPN had a really in-depth article on this subject about a month ago:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12318808/the-philadelphia-76ers-radical-guide-winning

I find it a pretty convincing strategy but yes, very cynical.

Turk
02-28-2015, 02:55 PM
In a four team city that has exactly one championship in the past 32 years, that's all that matters. When the Sixers spent 5-7 years in the post Iverson era scraping by as 7 and 8 seeds, attendance dropped significantly. Everyone knew that those teams were just about as likely to win a title as this years team; it wasn't going to happen. Philly had sort of the perfect storm for this experiment. You have city that right now values a championship over a steady product. You have four teams in town, which makes having down years more tolerable with other sports to distract you (this sort of thing wouldn't work as well in OKC or Utah). You also have a fan base that was frustrated with mediocrity and ready for change. All of those thing led to a fan base that is more accepting of this strategy.



As a long term transplant to the Philly area, I have a different take on the situation. I think the "championship or bust" is a sucker's bet, and an excuse that GMs and owners use for mismanagement and bad decisions. I also disagree that the city values a championship over a steady product. The Phillies had the city eating out of their hands for a good half-dozen years, with only the one World Series to show for it. The Eagles have been better for longer, and will still sell out even if they slide to mediocrity. And the Flyers consistently draw well despite an inconsistent playoff track record. So the support is there (and also confirms your point about how the other teams pick up extra interest when one team has a bad year. The "1 championship in 32 years" is a lazy sportswriter's story line.

For the Sixers, not all fans are accepting of the tanking strategy, but they never had a vote in the matter. Sixers attendance is 2nd-worst in the league, and the only reason people go to games is to see the best player on the other team. The insult is that they charge NBA prices for a D-league team. I was also suspicious of the earlier moves that resulted in no NBA-caliber players in the games, no firsts, and all those 2nd round choices. But I am starting to come around - the first round "assets" are starting to accumulate. Let's see where the ping-pong balls land in the spring and what actual players are on the roster next fall.

I will say this about the Sixers: Brett Brown is the real deal as head coach. He's got them playing hard, keeping them in games they have no business being in. Brown might be bringing a knife to a gun fight. but he's hit more carotids and jugulars during his short tenure than I thought possible...

SCMatt33
02-28-2015, 03:59 PM
As a long term transplant to the Philly area, I have a different take on the situation. I think the "championship or bust" is a sucker's bet, and an excuse that GMs and owners use for mismanagement and bad decisions. I also disagree that the city values a championship over a steady product. The Phillies had the city eating out of their hands for a good half-dozen years, with only the one World Series to show for it. The Eagles have been better for longer, and will still sell out even if they slide to mediocrity. And the Flyers consistently draw well despite an inconsistent playoff track record. So the support is there (and also confirms your point about how the other teams pick up extra interest when one team has a bad year. The "1 championship in 32 years" is a lazy sportswriter's story line.

For the Sixers, not all fans are accepting of the tanking strategy, but they never had a vote in the matter. Sixers attendance is 2nd-worst in the league, and the only reason people go to games is to see the best player on the other team. The insult is that they charge NBA prices for a D-league team. I was also suspicious of the earlier moves that resulted in no NBA-caliber players in the games, no firsts, and all those 2nd round choices. But I am starting to come around - the first round "assets" are starting to accumulate. Let's see where the ping-pong balls land in the spring and what actual players are on the roster next fall.

I will say this about the Sixers: Brett Brown is the real deal as head coach. He's got them playing hard, keeping them in games they have no business being in. Brown might be bringing a knife to a gun fight. but he's hit more carotids and jugulars during his short tenure than I thought possible...

I don't think that a team has to actually win a championship to draw fans and be popular, but there has to be legit hope that it's possible. The Phillies didn't become the hot ticket that it was for 5 years, selling out over 250 consecutive games until after they won the World Series (The streak went from July 09 to August 2012). The end date of that streak is also important. The very instant that they were no longer a playoff contender, 2012 was the first year they missed the playoffs since 06, attendance began to fall. As if talked about earlier, a team like the Phillies or Flyers could sneak into the playoff on the last day of the season and still have a legit shot at a title, in fact, the Flyers came within 2 games of doing just that in 2010. That's just not the case in the NBA. During the 2008-2012 run as the 6-8 team in the east, the Sixers were never that big of a draw. In fact since the Wells Fargo Center opened about 20 years ago, the Sixers have only averaged over 19000 fans 4 times, the year they went to the. Finals in 01 and the following 3 years. The Flyers have never averaged less than 19000 fans in that time. I don't want to go too far in drawing conclusions from that because there are socioeconomic differences between flyers and Sixers fans, but it's not a coincidence that the Sixers really had only one era in the last 20 years where they could be considered legit contenders and it matched their best attendance. By the same token, the Flyers had only one season in that time where they had absolutely no chance to make the playoff (07) and that was their worst season by attendance.

I'm going to leave the Eagles out of this a bit because they are on a different plane of popularity compared to other teams. They can go 2-14 and people will still talk about whether next year will be the year by the time training camp rolls around.

The Sixers face an uphill climb because unlike every other league, making the playoffs is not sufficient to give fans at least a little hope of a title. So it's not that only a championship will make fans happy, but they need at least a little hope that it can happen to buy in.