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JBDuke
02-18-2015, 11:40 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

Mabdul Doobakus
02-18-2015, 11:41 PM
Never in doubt.

Karl Beem
02-18-2015, 11:41 PM
Never a doubt.

ChrisP
02-18-2015, 11:41 PM
Glad we didn't blow a home game. Especially to the cheaters but...OMG our FT's!!!!!

BlueHeaven
02-18-2015, 11:42 PM
Tyus Jones.

ChrisP
02-18-2015, 11:44 PM
Quinn was awesome in the first half. Not so much in the 2nd. Hard to complain about a guy who clearly played his behind off but...jeez 50% from the line at the end - are you kidding me?!?

gumbomoop
02-18-2015, 11:44 PM
Truly a classic. BTW, it's shown again tonight after midnight, ESPNU 1:00 am. I watched the Dan Bonner version, so now I'll get to hear Bilas's take.

duketaylor
02-18-2015, 11:44 PM
Holy Crap!! Boys and I just finished high-fiving!! Thought we had donated this one. Chilled a Victory Winter Cheers brew earlier in hopes of Victory, now I can consume!! WOW!!! Awesome!!
9F9F9F9F!!!

hurleyfor3
02-18-2015, 11:44 PM
Speechless.

BlueDevilBrowns
02-18-2015, 11:44 PM
The Freshman now know what Duke/UNC is all about.

I think the intensity of the game(along with Okafor's ankle) caught the younger guys by surprise.

But, fortunately, they figured it out in the knick of time.

As K always says, you can learn just as much by winning as you can by losing.

So why not win?

GO DUKE!

snowdenscold
02-18-2015, 11:45 PM
Unfortunately my son is not old enough to know how to dial 911 ... because I think daddy had a heart attack.

duke79
02-18-2015, 11:45 PM
Helluva of a comeback !! (missed FT's not withstanding)

BlueHeaven
02-18-2015, 11:45 PM
Who are these two on ESPN on the court? They're awful.

stillcrazie
02-18-2015, 11:46 PM
I TOLD ALL YOU GUYS ON DBR CHAT TO BELIEVE!!!

Sometimes you have to WILL IT!!!

Woo hoo!!!!!!!!

gurufrisbee
02-18-2015, 11:46 PM
I still don't even know how that happened. I'm pretty sure if you were in a Duke jersey I screamed "_____ you're playing like crap!" at one time or another at you through the TV - and I was right about them. And somehow we still end up coming back and getting the win. I love it. I can't explain it or maybe even comprehend it, but I love it.

dalmatians98
02-18-2015, 11:46 PM
Thank you, Tyus! Holy cow! What a game!

fuse
02-18-2015, 11:46 PM
Gutsy win.

Missed opportunity to put UNC away early, lousy second half until Tyus Stones showed up.

Lots of heart and fight, proud of our team- they fought hard to earn this one.

DRC
02-18-2015, 11:46 PM
Unbelievable....just unbelievable. TJ is a superstar and this is yet another Duke/NC classic. But Good Lord....the missed FTs. Ouch.

duke79
02-18-2015, 11:47 PM
Who are these two on ESPN on the court? They're awful.

Good question and agreed.

DavidBenAkiva
02-18-2015, 11:47 PM
Quinn Cook and Tyus Jones >>>>> Marcus Paige

Heck of a performance by our guards

Furniture
02-18-2015, 11:48 PM
Whoever it was got out of chat to change the mojo deserves all the credit for this win...

BlueandWhite
02-18-2015, 11:49 PM
Good question and agreed.

Yes...who are they? Horrible.

NSDukeFan
02-18-2015, 11:49 PM
Terrible second half with an amazing finish. That was awesome. Great job by Quinn on Paige. Huge offensive board by Matt Jones. Great to see the return of the Amile I know and love. And of course, Tyus f:$;&@in Jones.

Troublemaker
02-18-2015, 11:50 PM
Glad I watched. What a classic! (Glad the recruits got to see that game, too.)

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-18-2015, 11:50 PM
Whoever it was got out of chat to change the mojo deserves all the credit for this win...
Stilcrazie. Spork him on page 1.

stillcrazie
02-18-2015, 11:50 PM
Whoever it was got out of chat to change the mojo deserves all the credit for this win...

THAT WAS ME!!!

Man, it was negative in that chat room. I just felt like we were not going down in our house tonight.

GO DUKE!!!!

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-18-2015, 11:51 PM
That fire looks way too orderly!

Dukehky
02-18-2015, 11:52 PM
Quinn was perfect on defense. Don't care how he played in the second half.

Troublemaker
02-18-2015, 11:52 PM
Glad we didn't blow a home game. Especially to the cheaters but...OMG our FT's!!!!!

And rebounding, which was probably an even bigger problem than the FTs.


Quinn was awesome in the first half. Not so much in the 2nd. Hard to complain about a guy who clearly played his behind off but...jeez 50% from the line at the end - are you kidding me?!?

It happens. On the first pair, he was cold, having not shot any FTs all game. The second 1-for-2 was less excusable, but I'm not gonna point a finger at the man who shut down Paige all game long.

Told you guys Quinn guards Paige well!

BlueHeaven
02-18-2015, 11:53 PM
Good question and agreed.

They were so clearly disappointed that Duke won.

Furniture
02-18-2015, 11:53 PM
Congrats to UNC. They showed many that they are a good team after all and deserve respect.
That's what it's all about!!!
But our boys were just too good for them. I believe Duke wins easier at Their place.

stillcrazie
02-18-2015, 11:53 PM
Stilcrazie. Spork him on page 1.

I KNEW IT!!! And we will beat them more easily in Chapel Hell.

I don't think I've ever been sporked, so by all means. And I am a "her." And a newly minted Duke Ph.D.

WOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BlueHeaven
02-18-2015, 11:54 PM
That fire looks way too orderly!

Right? What happened to random bench burning? Or am I just old?

Troublemaker
02-18-2015, 11:55 PM
I KNEW IT!!! And we will beat them more easily in Chapel Hell.

Agreed. We ended UNC's season tonight.

Great job showing belief, stillcrazie!

KandG
02-18-2015, 11:55 PM
Still don't know how we won that game. I mean, I do know (we're a better team), but the path to victory was extremely unnerving, if exciting.

End of the first half and most of the second half was abysmal. Had an opportunity to get the lead up huge several times, and made so many bad decisions and allowed UNC to dictate play once we lost the lead. Our defense got much too soft because it was so easy to score, plus Jah's ankle injury seemed to unsettle him and the rest of the team. Thank goodness Tyus wouldn't let us lose.

All those missed free throws, plus Matt's insane lane violation in OT, and somehow we still won. What a game! GTHC!!!

Furniture
02-18-2015, 11:55 PM
THAT WAS ME!!!

Man, it was negative in that chat room. I just felt like we were not going down in our house tonight.

GO DUKE!!!!

Well done. BTW. I followed your example. It was very tempting to go back in during OT but I resisted!!!

detule
02-18-2015, 11:56 PM
Right? What happened to random bench burning? Or am I just old?

I think that was a bench. And when you burn benches year after year, it becomes less random. Cost of success I guess.

Can I just say that I hate when people emphasize that "players come to duke to play Carolina"? I thought they came to Duke to win championships ...

Furniture
02-18-2015, 11:56 PM
Jabari on sports center!!

dukelifer
02-18-2015, 11:57 PM
All I know is that Tyus Jones is a gamer. The kid plays his best at the end of close games. Duke was lucky to win this game - given the missed throws and the inability to bound the ball- but got to hand it to the boys- they did what they had to do. Another classic. Looking forward to watching it again with a normal heart rate.

peterjswift
02-18-2015, 11:57 PM
I thought I wasn't going to get to the bottom of my bottle of Maker's tonight...but then overtime happened.

GDuke_03
02-18-2015, 11:57 PM
Right? What happened to random bench burning? Or am I just old?

burn baby burn!

really makes me miss the quad... (and feel old, but that's another issue)

BlueHeaven
02-18-2015, 11:58 PM
All I know is that Tyus Jones is a gamer. The kid plays his best at the end of close games. Duke was lucky to win this game - given the missed throws and the inability to bound the ball- but got to hand it to the boys- they did what they had to do. Another classic. Looking forward to watching it again with a normal heart rate.

I think I'll enjoy it more the second time knowing the outcome. I still watch 2010 National Championship when I'm feeling down.

peterjswift
02-18-2015, 11:58 PM
Great seeing Jabari on sportscenter.

mgtr
02-18-2015, 11:58 PM
Wow! Great game, but I have to admit that I was among the faint of heart near the end of regulation. It just shows that you have to believe. Our guys came back, forcing overtime, and then forced enough errors on UNC so that we won. Go Tyus! (Of course, this just raises the chance that he goes very high in the draft!)

ChrisP
02-18-2015, 11:59 PM
And rebounding, which was probably an even bigger problem than the FTs.



It happens. On the first pair, he was cold, having not shot any FTs all game. The second 1-for-2 was less excusable, but I'm not gonna point a finger at the man who shut down Paige all game long.

Told you guys Quinn guards Paige well!

Excellent point. I take back what I said about QC - totally ignored the defensive effort and wrongly focused on the missed FT's and some questionable decisions to drive into traffic. But holding Paige to 5 points...wow! Great effort. And no wonder he was tired!

NashvilleDevil
02-18-2015, 11:59 PM
What a tremendous game. I do not care to read those that will post what went wrong because in the end who won?

stillcrazie
02-18-2015, 11:59 PM
Oh, and if you look back at the chat details, you will see that with about 4 minutes left I said that it was time for Tyus to take over.

It is officially time to start worrying about Jah's ankle. He needs rest, ice, and elevation.

sagegrouse
02-19-2015, 12:00 AM
Who were those guys, part I? Duke from two minutes left in the first half to about four minutes left in the game.

Who were those guys, part II? The Carolina team during the same period. Huge number of offensive rebounds; the most points in the paint of any team in the ACC since, well, forever; flawless execution of the running game. How did this team lose three out of four before tonight?

How did we win this game? It was effing over.

Bonus question: What joke did Roy Williams tell to Quinn cook when he handed him the ball on the Carolina turnover? Both laughed like crazy. I may decide I like Roy W.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 12:00 AM
Going to pat myself on the back a bit about my Duke X factors...

Amile had a fantastic game, though he sat quite a bit down the stretch. 13 points, 5 boards, 6 blocks (!). I suppose that he sat to spread the floor out a bit, but I thought he was doing a good job making UNC pay for doubling Okafor.

Matt had a solid game as well. Huge offensive board at the end of OT. Big steal at start of OT. And great defense on Paige's last second 3 attempt.

Jah was quiet on offense and then rolled his ankle pretty good. I know he played the entire 2nd half and OT, but I think a lot of that was to prevent it from swelling too much. He was definitely laboring a bit and was not as effective for a stretch, but really gutted it out and finished strong. I called it in the pre-game thread; they'd put Meeks (and dirty Joel James) and then double with Johnson. Once Johnson fouled out, Oakafor was able to take over.

Cook and T. Jones were HUGE, though. Only downside of their play - Cook's missed FTs, some questionable shot selection on drives and Tyus' had 6 turnovers. Not great. But I thought he'd come up huge in this game, as he always seems to do in big games.

Winslow was real hit or miss in the game. When he was aggressive on his drives, he was effective. But he got passive a few stretches. He also got screwed on a bad goaltending call (as did Okafor).

I was amazed that MP3, Amile and even Allen didn't play much in the 2nd half despite giving good minutes in the first half.

The defense was great at times, but not that great overall. I don't understand why we didn't mix in a zone here or there, just to keep UNC guessing. As for the glass, Duke actually was just -3 against UNC.

The real key to this game was the complete breakdown by UNC in the last 2 minutes of regulation. Missed FTs, inexplicable turnovers and just a complete whiff on defense on Tyus Jones' drive that tied the game. But I'd rather win like that than in a blowout - games like this keep the opponents interested and emotionally invested. Sprinkle in a hope that they could win? And then lose like that? Awesome. Soul crushingly awesome. And could not happen to a worse fanbase.

Also, how about having Harry Giles, Derryck Thornton, and Dennis Smith Jr in the crowd to see THAT game?

dairedevil
02-19-2015, 12:01 AM
Whew! That was exhausting...I'm just glad that I don't need to call EMT for my 88 year old mom :) It's probably going to take her a while to settle down!

I'm so proud of these guys. Down 10, 3:22 left in the game, and they never gave up. Tyus taking over when needed, Okafor battling through his ankle injury, getting the layup in OT, double-figure scoring from all of the starters.

GTHC! 9F!

Troublemaker
02-19-2015, 12:01 AM
I think Duke needs to embrace being a smallball team. Amile played well, but the spacing issues caused turnovers, which in turn hurt us in transition, which in turn gave UNC confidence. We turned the game around when we went smallball with Matt in for Amile at the end. (And by hopping on Tyus' back, of course!)

One of the keys to the endgame was Justise playing forever, including all of overtime, with 4 fouls. Not sure what Duke would've done if Justise had fouled out. I felt like going big again would've lost us the ballgame. Could we have trusted Grayson?

JNort
02-19-2015, 12:02 AM
Great game, great finish and another classic in the rivalry. One problem for me was why did we pressure so hard on a team who has one threat from deep? Why not pack it in and sag off on everyone except Paige? Help with all those cuts and rebounding issues

GDuke_03
02-19-2015, 12:02 AM
What joke did Roy Williams tell to Quinn cook when he handed him the ball on the Carolina turnover? Both laughed like crazy. I may decide I like Roy W.

i would pay a lot of money to know what Roy said there.

Furniture
02-19-2015, 12:03 AM
Great seeing Jabari on sportscenter.

No doubt that he is Duke through and through...

moonpie23
02-19-2015, 12:03 AM
uhh.....HELLLO!!! i DID invoke the SIT JAH incantation....


you're welcome....:cool:

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 12:03 AM
I think Duke needs to embrace being a smallball team. Amile played well, but the spacing issues caused turnovers, which in turn hurt us in transition, which in turn gave UNC confidence. We turned the game around when we went smallball with Matt in for Amile at the end. (And by hopping on Tyus' back, of course!)

One of the keys to the endgame was Justise playing forever, including all of overtime, with 4 fouls. Not sure what Duke would've done if Justise had fouled out. I felt like going big again would've lost us the ballgame. Could we have trusted Grayson?

Eh, I dunno. They built several leads with Amile in.

I think Jah playing on one good ankle was a bigger factor.

duketaylor
02-19-2015, 12:04 AM
Think about Duke PGs in recent years-Kyrie Irving, Austin Rivers and Tyus Jones (nothing against Quinn and a few others) but they've been amazing as frosh in some big games. Tyus tonight, Austin's shot vs. unc. Beautiful!! Who knows what could've happened with a healthy Kyrie the entire year, sheesh!!

77devil
02-19-2015, 12:04 AM
Quinn was awesome in the first half. Not so much in the 2nd. Hard to complain about a guy who clearly played his behind off but...jeez 50% from the line at the end - are you kidding me?!?

Quinn was gassed from chasing Paige. He never came out of the game. Give it a rest.

I'm stunned. Duke had scored 13 points in the second half with 6 minutes to play and was down 8. Our guys looked exhausted. I'm still shaking my head in disbelief.

Billy Dat
02-19-2015, 12:05 AM
Who were those guys, part I? Duke from two minutes left in the first half to about four minutes left in the game.

Who were those guys, part II? The Carolina team during the same period. Huge number of offensive rebounds; the most points in the paint of any team in the ACC since, well, forever; flawless execution of the running game. How did this team lose three out of four before tonight?

How did we win this game? It was effing over.

Bonus question: What joke did Roy Williams tell to Quinn cook when he handed him the ball on the Carolina turnover? Both laughed like crazy. I may decide I like Roy W.

We got tired, and UNC was playing exactly how they wanted, beating us up the court and owning the offensive glass.

Our team is no perfect by any stretch, but they have shown amazing heart and tenacity to scratch out some games where we we're close to dead...UVA, St. Johns to a degree, tonight.

After doing a poor job with the subs, and not using the orange D enough for my liking (they looked CLUELESS the one time we used it), K made some great calls down the strech..fouling early near the end of regulation to extend the game and the foul at the end.

Amazing, amazing win. This team has some balls, especially T. Jones.

peterjswift
02-19-2015, 12:08 AM
Bonus question: What joke did Roy Williams tell to Quinn cook when he handed him the ball on the Carolina turnover? Both laughed like crazy. I may decide I like Roy W.

This is what I want to know.

mgtr
02-19-2015, 12:10 AM
i would pay a lot of money to know what Roy said there.

This could be like those cartoons where you write the caption. I think Roy offered Quinn $10,000 to lay off of Paige for the rest of the game. Quinn responded that Roy really was a cheap SOB.

roywhite
02-19-2015, 12:11 AM
Quinn was gassed from chasing Paige. He never came out of the game. Give it a rest.

I'm stunned. Duke had scored 13 points in the second half with 6 minutes to play and was down 8. Our guys looked exhausted. I'm still shaking my head in disbelief.

I hate to say I almost gave up on this one, but it's true. Just an amazing comeback late; what a gutty team. Gotta love Tyus -- what a gamer.

MCFinARL
02-19-2015, 12:15 AM
Quinn was awesome in the first half. Not so much in the 2nd. Hard to complain about a guy who clearly played his behind off but...jeez 50% from the line at the end - are you kidding me?!?

Re the free throws, yeah, that was painful--but in fairness I think Quinn played every single minute of the game and continued throughout the second half to play amazingly effective defense on Paige--so he might have been a mite tired. I'm pretty happy with Quinn's entire game.

devildeac
02-19-2015, 12:16 AM
Re the free throws, yeah, that was painful--but in fairness I think Quinn played every single minute of the game and continued throughout the second half to play amazingly effective defense on Paige--so he might have been a mite tired. I'm pretty happy with Quinn's entire game.

I'm with you. Just finished my vote and justification for my MOTM vote for Cook.

TKG
02-19-2015, 12:17 AM
Wonder what the recruits think?

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-19-2015, 12:17 AM
As far as Quinn and Roy go, I think Quinn started it after the turnover with some friendly chatter that made Roy laugh.

Troublemaker
02-19-2015, 12:17 AM
Trailing, 79-72, timeout with 1:38 left. Coach is telling the team that Duke is going to win.

That's why they trust him!

detule
02-19-2015, 12:18 AM
Great interview by Quinn and TJ.

Quinn calling Jones the best PG in the country.

Also responding that they need to win few more games before they can claim the best backcourt in the country label.

devildeac
02-19-2015, 12:18 AM
Wonder what the recruits think?

They all signed LOI, plus 3 others gave their verbals to K and the staff in the locker room after the game:rolleyes:.

(I wish.)

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 12:19 AM
As far as Quinn and Roy go, I think Quinn started it after the turnover with some friendly chatter that made Roy laugh.

I think it went like this:

QUINN: "Coach just told us we're going to win."
ROY: "HAHAHHAHAHAHA Your coach believes in you and doesn't throw you under the bus?"
QUINN: "No, really. Maybe you should call a timeout now."
ROY: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Troublemaker
02-19-2015, 12:21 AM
Btw, Thank You, Nate Britt, for bricking that 1-and-1

That was when I knew Duke had a shot to win.

GDuke_03
02-19-2015, 12:22 AM
Quinn with 45 min, Tyrus with 43, and Jah (with the injury) at 41!! Those are crazy numbers. All this talk of 8 scholarship players, but Grayson and MP3 played 11 combined. Always going to be a short bench in tight games.

Dukerati
02-19-2015, 12:22 AM
Man, we've delivered some gut punches to the Heels in the past few years haven't we? Just wanted to chime in and credit Justise for segueing us into the Tyus show. As great as Tyus was at the end, never would've mattered without Justise being aggressive when we needed it.

Also, Jah picked it up at the end but it's twice (three?) times in a row now that we've gone on runs when he's been forced out. I'm not suggesting we bench Jah but perhaps we give him more rest at the end so we can play with our hyper aggressive small lineups some more.

JNort
02-19-2015, 12:22 AM
But it needs to be said.... 9F

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-19-2015, 12:23 AM
Good night DBR youre the real man of the match!!! If youre in Durham enjoy the party.

wilson
02-19-2015, 12:24 AM
Gutsy win.

Missed opportunity to put UNC away early, lousy second half until Tyus Stones showed up.

Lots of heart and fight, proud of our team- they fought hard to earn this one.Excellent. I wanna see Crazies dressed like cavemen for Tyus Stones on Saturday.

lotusland
02-19-2015, 12:27 AM
Really weird game with an awesome ending. I'm going to enjoy it tonight and watch again tomorrow. I voted for Winslow for MOTM. He was a man the whole game except for foul trouble and clutch at the end. Cook was awesome and Tyus made the plays to win it at the end. Amile was really good and M Jones made some nice plays. Grayson was active and made his 2 FTs. Jah battled despite the bum ankle and was also huge at the end.

Troublemaker
02-19-2015, 12:27 AM
Roy beginning overtime with Justin Jackson in there was a bit ridiculous.

It was obvious throughout the game that the lineups that gave us the most trouble had Berry or Britt in there in place of Jackson.

InSpades
02-19-2015, 12:29 AM
Gonna watch the comeback from down 10 to only down 3 on DVR cause I turned the game off after their 4 point possession to push it to 10 and then our miss w/ about 3:45 left. You're all welcome. This is I think the 3rd time this year I turned the game off only to have to turn it back on to see us win.

KandG
02-19-2015, 12:30 AM
Also, Jah picked it up at the end but it's twice (three?) times in a row now that we've gone on runs when he's been forced out. I'm not suggesting we bench Jah but perhaps we give him more rest at the end so we can play with our hyper aggressive small lineups some more.

Actually was looking forward to seeing some non-Jah lineups in the second half to see if we could push the pace and give Jah a break, but I'm guessing the coaches were concerned his ankle would stiffen up (plus I'm sure he wanted no part of sitting).

It was pretty rough seeing us get beat in transition so much in the second half and watching Meeks score in his face though. Seemed like Jah got stronger as the game went along and it helped when UNC dropped the double teams to protect their lead.

I do wonder if he'll be more limited on the weekend or even sit out against Clemson if his ankle doesn't respond well after tonight. Holding my breath and hoping for the best.

MCFinARL
02-19-2015, 12:31 AM
As far as Quinn and Roy go, I think Quinn started it after the turnover with some friendly chatter that made Roy laugh.

My guess--something about Roy's excellent catching of the full-court pass.


Wonder what the recruits think?

Good question--but if nothing else they have to have been pretty impressed with the atmosphere--exciting game, crazy cheering fans, what appeared to be at least 50 different ESPN talking heads on site.

GDuke_03
02-19-2015, 12:33 AM
Gonna watch the comeback from down 10 to only down 3 on DVR cause I turned the game off after their 4 point possession to push it to 10 and then our miss w/ about 3:45 left. You're all welcome. This is I think the 3rd time this year I turned the game off only to have to turn it back on to see us win.

yeah... don't do that. I learned my lesson in 2001 with J-Will at UMD... it's never over!

Dukehky
02-19-2015, 12:33 AM
Actually was looking forward to seeing some non-Jah lineups in the second half to see if we could push the pace and give Jah a break, but I'm guessing the coaches were concerned his ankle would stiffen up (plus I'm sure he wanted no part of sitting).

It was pretty rough seeing us get beat in transition so much in the second half and watching Meeks score in his face though. Seemed like Jah got stronger as the game went along and it helped when UNC dropped the double teams to protect their lead.

I do wonder if he'll be more limited on the weekend or even sit out against Clemson if his ankle doesn't respond well after tonight. Holding my breath and hoping for the best.

I like to hope that maybe Jah is really a great defender, but he doesn't want to show it until the tournament. I think there may be a little something to that theory. He has to be on the floor, so maybe he saves himself for offense (I'm fine with that, we can outscore anyone), but come tourney time, I think he plays way harder on defense and by virtue of being 6'11, makes a difference.

I think that at this point, we are back to where we were in November, clearly the 2nd best team in the country with a drop off afterward, with less of a drop off than I anticipated between Duke and Wiscy/UVA.

I actually thought Jah played pretty good defense tonight especially considering that it was obvious that Marshall was going to have no part in this game.

JetpackJesus
02-19-2015, 12:36 AM
Man, we've delivered some gut punches to the Heels in the past few years haven't we? Just wanted to chime in and credit Justise for segueing us into the Tyus show. As great as Tyus was at the end, never would've mattered without Justise being aggressive when we needed it.

Also, Jah picked it up at the end but it's twice (three?) times in a row now that we've gone on runs when he's been forced out. I'm not suggesting we bench Jah but perhaps we give him more rest at the end so we can play with our hyper aggressive small lineups some more.

Someone in the DBR chat should always suggest that we "sit Jah" in tight games (did that happen tonight?).

*EDIT* GTHCGTH

DukeHLM'13
02-19-2015, 12:36 AM
Gonna watch the comeback from down 10 to only down 3 on DVR cause I turned the game off after their 4 point possession to push it to 10 and then our miss w/ about 3:45 left. You're all welcome. This is I think the 3rd time this year I turned the game off only to have to turn it back on to see us win.

I am also a huge fan of this strategy. I've found that the combination of turning the game off, getting off of chat, and then going into the kitchen may be the most helpful (did it during the SJ game and again tonight and at least one other time this season).

Sometimes it makes me feel like a bad fan, but, hey, if it works it works. Its like those ESPN commercials..."Its not weird, its sports"

Furniture
02-19-2015, 12:37 AM
Sportscenter so good to watch from Cameron after the game. Jabari, Quinn and Tysus interviews and my favourite quote from the talking heads was:

Rivalry...not oversold
Cameron...not oversold...

The recruits have got to be impressed. I did like hearing Roy's comments about the rivalry. It's about respect but I do want to beat those guys every time I play them...
Apparently the Dean tribute was K's idea.
Anyway, I have a 6.00am meeting. Got to go. I hope I can sleep...

NYBri
02-19-2015, 12:38 AM
I keep thinking about how I'd feel if they had come back and beat us in overtime...and how I'd have felt if a Cheater hit a three like Rivers did, and, I have to say that Cheater fans must feel REALLY bad.

That makes tonight's win that much sweeter.

And Wheat, 9f forever!!!!

Coballs
02-19-2015, 12:39 AM
One of our unsung heroes has to be Ol' Roy. The double team had been shutting down Okafor all night. So down the stretch Ol Roy calls it off and Okafor immediately manhandles Meeks. That was one brilliant piece of coaching.

InSpades
02-19-2015, 12:39 AM
I am also a huge fan of this strategy. I've found that the combination of turning the game off, getting off of chat, and then going into the kitchen may be the most helpful (did it during the SJ game and again tonight and at least one other time this season).

Sometimes it makes me feel like a bad fan, but, hey, if it works it works. Its like those ESPN commercials..."Its not weird, its sports"

Yeah, I think St. Johns. Definitely against UVA. It's been kind of remarkably effective.

wilson
02-19-2015, 12:40 AM
All those missed free throws, plus Matt's insane lane violation in OT, and somehow we still won. What a game! GTHC!!!In the aftermath of Jerry Tarkanian's recent death, I found myself watching the final minutes of Duke-UNLV '91 the other day. Down the stretch, Thomas Hill committed a lane violation due to Larry Johnson's weird FT shooting motion, affording Grandmama an extra shot, which he converted. In both cases, it looked like a pretty boneheaded play might cost the good guys the game, but in both cases, things turned out rather nicely (by the same margin, I might add).
So maybe now we should have a lane violation "thing."

Troublemaker
02-19-2015, 12:41 AM
One of our unsung heroes has to be Ol' Roy. The double team had been shutting down Okafor all night. So down the stretch Ol Roy calls it off and Okafor immediately manhandles Meeks. That was one brilliant piece of coaching.

Coach K forced his hand with that one by going small and surrounding Jah with 4 shooters, making it hard to double.

Why not double anyway? Well, when you have a lead of several possessions in the game, it's best to make the other team beat you with 2s instead of giving them open 3s.

Trinity09
02-19-2015, 12:41 AM
I want a tape of Roy's presser. That was incredible.

- Mention own feelings before anything else? Check
- Throw players under the bus? Check
- Make ridiculous statements ("I want to beat their butts so bad I can taste it.")? Check
- On the verge of tears? Check

elvis14
02-19-2015, 12:42 AM
What a game. I will admit that I thought we were going to lose when we were down by 100 with 3 seconds left. What a great comeback. Tyus Jones was just incredible. And so many others made plays. Yes, there's some things we need to fix (Defense, turnovers) but who cares right now....we won :)

I was so hyped during the game I started doing push ups when I needed to blow off some stress. With this crazy game I ended up doing 100 push ups.

Now I have to figure out how to get some sleep.

77devil
02-19-2015, 12:44 AM
In the aftermath of Jerry Tarkanian's recent death, I found myself watching the final minutes of Duke-UNLV '91 the other day. Down the stretch, Thomas Hill committed a lane violation due to Larry Johnson's weird FT shooting motion, affording Grandmama an extra shot, which he converted. In both cases, it looked like a pretty boneheaded play might cost the good guys the game, but in both cases, things turned out rather nicely (by the same margin, I might add).
So maybe now we should have a lane violation "thing."

But Carolina was in the double bonus. Matt made a mental error.

Kedsy
02-19-2015, 12:46 AM
Oh. My. Goodness.

And, by the way, let's give some credit to Wheat here. Britt played well, James played well, and Quinn Cook absolutely shred UNC from beyond the arc. Duke lived by the three, and Jahlil probably could have used a few more touches. So, pretty much everything Wheat said came true. Good thing we won anyway.

Also, six blocks for Amile? Wow.

Finally, I hope Jahlil's ankle is OK. It looked bad when he hurt it.

Kedsy
02-19-2015, 12:48 AM
I was so hyped during the game I started doing push ups when I needed to blow off some stress. With this crazy game I ended up doing 100 push ups.

I started drinking beer. I'm not going to say how many I ended up "doing."

duketaylor
02-19-2015, 12:49 AM
"I am also a huge fan of this strategy. I've found that the combination of turning the game off, getting off of chat, and then going into the kitchen may be the most helpful (did it during the SJ game and again tonight and at least one other time this season)."

Yeah, my little change was to take a beer out of the other side of the container-worked like a charm;)

Simple, yet brilliant!!

weezie
02-19-2015, 12:50 AM
I do not know how those last three minutes went down and I was there. Can't quite grasp what I just saw.

Newton_14
02-19-2015, 12:51 AM
Quinn with 45 min, Tyrus with 43, and Jah (with the injury) at 41!! Those are crazy numbers. All this talk of 8 scholarship players, but Grayson and MP3 played 11 combined. Always going to be a short bench in tight games.
Crazy minutes indeed, but K only goes that far overboard in certain games, based on feel, not every tight game. Like Ferry4Fifty, I suspect Jahlil did not come out due to the injury, cause if he sits that ankle swells. He will be in a boot tomorrow for sure. Quinn is going to play every minute of every game to the house unless foul trouble forces him out or K rests him in a blowout. Back to your point though, it reminded me of the Miami home game in 2009, during Paulus' Sr year. We were struggling over a stretch of games, Miami took a big lead, and Duke clawed back. K rode the same 5 guys down the stretch in regulation and all of OT in a Duke win. I think it was Paulus, Scheyer, Singler, McClure, and Lance Thomas if memory serves.

Tonight was just one of those odd ball games. We could have crushed them, but Jahlil got hurt by the big Oaf, we went away from what was working, turned the ball over way too much, and got soft on defense. Then after coming back and taking a 10 point lead, Unc-Cheat did the exact same thing (minus an injury). They had us dead to rights, but Tyus just willed us to somehow tie it up, and we played really good defense in the final 2.5 minutes of regulation and most of OT. That K somehow sensed a win when down 79-72 is just incredulous. I don't know how he reads situations that well, and I don't think he says that every time they are losing down the stretch, but man the guy is genius.

A game of many swings and we all need heart medication (Paging DevilDeac!)

With a healthy Jahlil, and Duke playing their normal game, Duke beats this Unc-Cheat team most nights by 8 or 10.

Just an amazing game. Still can't believe we won, but agree that ripped out the heels heart and they are done, and if they were truly as good as Bilas and everyone else thinks, they would have held on for the win. They showed no intelligence and no poise losing that 10 point lead with 2:50 to go.

wilson
02-19-2015, 12:52 AM
But Carolina was in the double bonus. Matt made a mental error.If you want to argue against the power of the Lucky Lane Violation, then I guess that's your thing. But I wouldn't really recommend it.

Saratoga2
02-19-2015, 12:52 AM
I have been following Duke for many years and have seen most if not all of the rivalry games with UNC over that long period. I think tonights game ranks up there with the best I have seen. Clearly our team has heart and is very skilled at the guard, center and wing positions and good at the power forward. We don't have a lot of depth though and can be made uncomfortable by a deep team that wants to play at a fast pace. We were good in many phases of the game but UNC had the advantage in offensive rebounding and also transition offense off of missed shots and free throws. It is strrange to see in overall rebounding we were only a couple less than UNC, probably because our guards did their share.

Tyus and Quinn had outstanding games with Quinns defense essentially shutting down Paige. Twenty two points each as well. Jahlil was also excellent and Justise keeps us on an even keep with his scoring and defense. I was happy to seeAmile have a better game tonight as he had some off games of late. Matt chipped in primarily with defense but did hit a meaningful 3. I was also impressed with Grayson as he is gaining in confidence and is not a bad option when we get tired or in foul trouble. Unlike some others, I didn't think Marshall contributed much, as he was outclassed by the athleticism and speed of UNC.

We clearly have our work cut out to prevail in some tough games with Clemson, Wake, Syracuse and UNC again but we have grown for all the road games that we met good opponents and prevailed. To get a high seed in the tournment, we will need to keep winning.

Troublemaker
02-19-2015, 12:52 AM
There was a funny moment when Jay Bilas said (paraphrasing), "When Jahlil Okafor gets the ball 1-on-1 in the post, it's hard to see how the defense can stop him." And the graphic on the screen at the time showed Jahlil as 0-for-6 on FTs.

There was definitely a couple of possession there when I was thrilled that UNC didn't do Hack-an-Oak

moonpie23
02-19-2015, 12:54 AM
I must admit....i haven't HATED any individual tarheel since HWNSNBM, but tonight, i think i've found someome...


that reverse dunk by Tokoto really got my blood boiling......looks like it pissed of tyus too.....

ricks68
02-19-2015, 12:55 AM
I started drinking beer. I'm not going to say how many I ended up "doing."

I celebrated before the game with a 750 ml Pisgah Cosmos. The game was as good as the beer---at least.:)

ricks

duketaylor
02-19-2015, 12:56 AM
burn baby burn!

really makes me miss the quad... (and feel old, but that's another issue)

Have to get a permit from the fire dept. prior to bench-burning. Only allowed on select occasions. Tonight might've qualified.

When I was on campus it was just fire it up. 81-85.

Troublemaker
02-19-2015, 12:58 AM
My last random comment of the night before going to sleep:

Was that Jabari's girlfriend sitting to his left?

At first I was like, "Man, Jabari, you be cradle-robbin' there."

But then I remembered, "Oh yeah, he's 19."

These Duke teams we're rooting for just keep getting younger and younger.

Makes for a wild ride sometimes.

Billy Dat
02-19-2015, 01:03 AM
At first I was like, "Man, Jabari, you be cradle-robbin' there.".

Then you said...
http://youtu.be/iiM5axZV-pM

uh_no
02-19-2015, 01:05 AM
i complain a lot about wins.

there ain't no complaining about a win over the cheaters.

so sweet. game in hell ought to be interesting....

gofurman
02-19-2015, 01:08 AM
A truly super game! That said;

Few worries - Okafors ankle... Free throws !!!!!!!!! Mother sucker can we hit some free throws? As this game showed our current Ft woes will catch us vs top competition. Also, I know UNC played great (not like they did vs Pitt etc) but dang, it scares me that, at home, we hit 10-16 threes and needed every single one to escape. Can't count on better than 4O% in my opinion. Would live to be able to win shooting high 30% from three (I think that's what we did at UVA?). Thoughts on these concerns?

Also, damn. Get a defensive rebound. And get back in transition.

Great call by K to go 4 out and 1 in to get Okafor 1 on 1 at the end!!!

uh_no
02-19-2015, 01:12 AM
A truly super game! That said;

Few worries - Okafors ankle... Free throws !!!!!!!!! Mother sucker can we hit some free throws? As this game showed our current Ft woes will catch us vs top competition. Also, I know UNC played great (not like they did vs Pitt etc) but dang, it scares me that, at home, we hit 10-16 threes and needed every single one to escape. Can't count on better than 4O% in my opinion. Would live to be able to win shooting high 30% from three (I think that's what we did at UVA?). Thoughts on these concerns?

Also, damn. Get a defensive rebound. And get back in transition.

Great call by K to go 4 out and 1 in to get Okafor 1 on 1 at the end!!!

THe free throws have and will be an issue all season. I think the biggest thing tonight was the complete lack of any cohesive offense for much of the second half. quinn reverted to "black hole" quinn of dribbling around and then trying to take it in for a bad shot. He wasn't the only one, either...justice did it a couple times.....there was just no passing or patience to wait for a good shot....too many people trying to play the hero, which is surprising since we've avoided that largely against good teams and in close games. all I can say is I think the moment got to the team, and they played some bad ball.

but sticking to my statement, don't care. beat carolina.

weezie
02-19-2015, 01:16 AM
But K said, they left everything on the court. Both teams. What a prize fight.

ricks68
02-19-2015, 01:19 AM
Ok. I have been continuously watching ESPN since the game ended and just saw the Cook/Williams funny interchange again. There is no doubt in my mind that someone out there in DBR land can read Roy's lips. So, c'mon, what did he say to Quinn that caused the laughter between them. I am not very good at reading lips, but what he said should be clearly translatable by someone here on the boards.:confused:

ricks

uh_no
02-19-2015, 01:23 AM
there was a question the other day about whether ESPN uses crowd mics, and that could cause the crowd to appear quieter on TV.....they do. I took a picture. they mount these http://tcfurlong.com/wp-content/uploads/A2003UHF-xlarge.jpg
facing the student section

weezie
02-19-2015, 01:28 AM
I must admit....i haven't HATED any individual tarheel since HWNSNBM, but tonight, i think i've found someome...


that reverse dunk by Tokoto really got my blood boiling......looks like it pissed of tyus too.....

Agreed. That was very clown-ish and infuriating. He's a donkey.

UrinalCake
02-19-2015, 01:35 AM
For a while in the second half I was having flashbacks to the Miami game - poor offensive possessions leading to transition baskets the other way for them. Clearly their strategy was to sprint down the court as soon as they got the ball and baseball pass it over our "defense," and it was working. I think K said after the game that sometimes our failure to score leads to poor defense, and we need to get back instead o reacting to the missed shot.

It took most of the game but Oak finally realized the refs were going to let them bang away, so once he started backing Meeks down he was unstoppable. Earlier in the game they were doubling him every time and there was usually a man open (often Amile under the basket) but Oak just couldn't find him. So lots of room for improvement but clearly this was a game where you take a win and don't care how you get it.

burnspbesq
02-19-2015, 01:47 AM
Man, we've delivered some gut punches to the Heels in the past few years haven't we?

In the last 340 days, Duke has OT wins over Carolina in four different sports.

Edouble
02-19-2015, 02:51 AM
Can't believe noone's mentioned it yet...

When we were down 72-79 w/ a minute and a half left, I said to my Mom (T '74) whom I watch all the games with, "I think Duke's gonna go on a Dean Smith-esque come from behind run right here," and we did.

The rivalry is a strange, living, breathing, organism. The most unbelievable things happen at the most interesting times. At the close of a back and forth affair that began with a pre-game moment of silence, Duke, not UNC, looks like a Dean Smith team of old.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-19-2015, 06:37 AM
I don't really get the complaints about J.Ps. Reverse Dunk. Thats a Dunk Mason used to do on a regular basis, and he had a clear lane so why not do a monster dunk to get the blood flowing? If I had that kind of athletic ability I would dunk like that every single chance I got. That being said, the flashiest I get is a behind the back pass, or a reverse layup. Maybe a one handed layup with a hand behind my head.

DukieInBrasil
02-19-2015, 06:54 AM
great comeback!!! however, if Jahlil and Tyus hadn't been turning it over so much in the 1st half the comeback wouldn't have been necessary. Seems like for every good play Jahlil had he also committed a really weak turnover. Tyus let several fast break transition offense opportunities slip away thru bad turns as well.
I was baffled by K's unwillingness to use MP3 when Okafor was getting serially abused throughout the 2nd half. His ankle was clearly affecting his play as he couldn't keep any UNCheats off the block or from scoring, nor could he control space for rebounds very well. His offense was mediocre, certainly not good enough to make up for his inability to defend.
Great shooting from Quinn and a really solid game from Winslow.

DukeDevil
02-19-2015, 07:19 AM
This gem from the @icmeltdown twitter feed...

"I swear Roy must redeem extra timeouts at McDonald's day after the game for free hamburgers"

NashvilleDevil
02-19-2015, 07:38 AM
great comeback!!! however, if Jahlil and Tyus hadn't been turning it over so much in the 1st half the comeback wouldn't have been necessary. Seems like for every good play Jahlil had he also committed a really weak turnover. Tyus let several fast break transition offense opportunities slip away thru bad turns as well.
I was baffled by K's unwillingness to use MP3 when Okafor was getting serially abused throughout the 2nd half. His ankle was clearly affecting his play as he couldn't keep any UNCheats off the block or from scoring, nor could he control space for rebounds very well. His offense was mediocre, certainly not good enough to make up for his inability to defend.
Great shooting from Quinn and a really solid game from Winslow.
Duke won against UNC now is not the time to focus on the negatives.

Duke3517
02-19-2015, 07:48 AM
I guess me saying TJ is one of the best point guards in the country is not to far off...

fuse
02-19-2015, 08:04 AM
Ok. I have been continuously watching ESPN since the game ended and just saw the Cook/Williams funny interchange again. There is no doubt in my mind that someone out there in DBR land can read Roy's lips. So, c'mon, what did he say to Quinn that caused the laughter between them. I am not very good at reading lips, but what he said should be clearly translatable by someone here on the boards.:confused:

ricks

Roy: where in Durham can I get a good late night meal now that Honey's is gone? You know I don't like the Waffle House.

Quinn: You better bring extra for Paige, don't think he's been fed all night!


Ok, lame- funnier in my head, and I am sad that Honey's is gone.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-19-2015, 08:09 AM
Duke won against UNC now is not the time to focus on the negatives.

Also, I would argue that subbing in MP3 for the likely #1 draft pick would negate the advantages we were able to exploit on the parts of the floor thanks to the double-team.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-19-2015, 08:15 AM
Oops

jv001
02-19-2015, 08:18 AM
Not going to give the ESPN box score but here are some highlights: Jahlil =41 minutes on a bad ankle, 12/13 with his usual 4 offensive rebounds, had 3 assists but also 5 turnovers. Hope he's close to 100% by Saturday, Amile was fired up and played well, 13 points, 5 rebounds and 6 blocks in 29 minutes, Justise in 29 minutes had 16 pts, 7 rebounds, 2 assists and 0 turnover. He really came through when we needed him. Tyus, Mr. Clutch in 43 minutes, 22 pts, 7 rebounds, 8 assists and 6 turnovers. He hit some big free throws when everyone else was bricking it(6/7). Quinn the Captain, in 45 minutes had 22 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 turnovers but was 6/9 on the three ball, he was 2-4 on FTs(un Quinn like). His play in the first half was exceptional and his defense on Paige was great. Matt played 27 minutes and made a couple of good plays, he hit a 3 pointer, grabbed a huge offensive rebound and had 5 rebounds total. I did have to yell at him a few times as he let his man go in for an offensive rebound that he could have prevented by boxing him out and the bonehead play of stepping into the lane on the foul shot was not the brightest move I've seen. MPIII got 7 minutes and had 1 rebound, uneventful 7 minutes, Grayson played 4 minutes and made two FTs(2-2).

I have to give Coach K a big pat on the back for taking out Winslow after he got 2 fouls in the first half. If he had stayed in and got the 3rd foul, we may have been in big trouble. He really turned up the energy at the last of the game. He got his hand several rebounds that kept uncheaters from putting back in the basket. The block he made that was called a foul was not even close to being a foul. That could have cost us the game. I did however wonder why Coach K didn't go big for a few minutes in the 2nd half when uncheat was pounding us on the offensive glass. But Coach knows what he's doing and it turned out great. No complaints from this Duke Fan. GoDuke!

David Bunkley
02-19-2015, 08:19 AM
I think it went like this:

QUINN: "Coach just told us we're going to win."
ROY: "HAHAHHAHAHAHA Your coach believes in you and doesn't throw you under the bus?"
QUINN: "No, really. Maybe you should call a timeout now."
ROY: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Roy: I didn't think we'd win with Paige playing poorly.
Quinn: You won't.

#GODUKE

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-19-2015, 08:23 AM
I hate to bring up something like this, but had the clock operator been like that in Chapel Hill I would be livid. There was what 3 different times where the clock needed to be reset? Two of them were before UNC foul shots and all three were after we had used all of our time outs I think. I don't have data to show that this is a trend, but that's just not acceptable. We basically got three extra timeouts because of it and iced UNC free throw shooters. I thought the refs called a really good game, and it was played at an excellent pace. However, if Duke is the one providing the clock operator we need to get that under control. I am sure crowd noise had something to do with it, as I could't even hear the whistle on tv at times. Still there is no excuse and If I was Roy I would have been all over the refs and the clock operator in that kind of environment. Of course he just sat there and looked confused, wondering who he was going to throw under the bus after the game was over.

Of course UNC still has to make their free throws and they deserve every bit of bad luck that gets sent their way, Karma is a Bi---h!!!!

redick4pres
02-19-2015, 08:48 AM
i would pay a lot of money to know what Roy said there.

I believe he said to Cook, "You're about to piss me off!" That's what it looked like to me. :D

redick4pres
02-19-2015, 08:55 AM
I hate to bring up something like this, but had the clock operator been like that in Chapel Hill I would be livid. There was what 3 different times where the clock needed to be reset? Two of them were before UNC foul shots and all three were after we had used all of our time outs I think. I don't have data to show that this is a trend, but that's just not acceptable. We basically got three extra timeouts because of it and iced UNC free throw shooters. I thought the refs called a really good game, and it was played at an excellent pace. However, if Duke is the one providing the clock operator we need to get that under control. I am sure crowd noise had something to do with it, as I could't even hear the whistle on tv at times. Still there is no excuse and If I was Roy I would have been all over the refs and the clock operator in that kind of environment. Of course he just sat there and looked confused, wondering who he was going to throw under the bus after the game was over.

Of course UNC still has to make their free throws and they deserve every bit of bad luck that gets sent their way, Karma is a Bi---h!!!!

If you guys watch much college and NBA basketball you'll notice a trend of officials going to the monitor to review time left the last couple minutes of a game. I don't have the data to prove it to you, but almost every late game situation I've seen in the last several months has had many of these "let's go to the monitor and put time back on the clock" situations. I don't believe it was the clock operator...I believe it was just a buy product of how the game is being played and officiated right now. Just my opinion.

stillcrazie
02-19-2015, 09:08 AM
I don't really get the complaints about J.Ps. Reverse Dunk. Thats a Dunk Mason used to do on a regular basis, and he had a clear lane so why not do a monster dunk to get the blood flowing? If I had that kind of athletic ability I would dunk like that every single chance I got. That being said, the flashiest I get is a behind the back pass, or a reverse layup. Maybe a one handed layup with a hand behind my head.

Mason, in fact, had a huge reverse dunk in the Dean Dome his freshman year.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-19-2015, 09:15 AM
Yea You may be right Reddick4pres, but it happened enough in our game where it was noticeable and it happened at good times for us which is the issue. They need to address this some how, as to not give a team an advantage. Maybe leave the players on the floor so the coaches can't have a free timeout. Like I said I don't have the data and I doubt anyone does to back up either way. I don't know if clock adjustments are a stat that is kept by anyone. Either way the clock operator has to do better. I noticed watching on tv each time the clock was messed up and knew it was going to be a game delay to fix it. They need to address this game wide, in both college and pro the delays are momentum killers.

superdave
02-19-2015, 09:24 AM
Also, I would argue that subbing in MP3 for the likely #1 draft pick would negate the advantages we were able to exploit on the parts of the floor thanks to the double-team.

I agree with the folks who thought Okafor should have sat for a couple of minutes. He was gassed, had no explosiveness and Unc got a 10 point lead because they were running circles around Okafor and getting offensive rebounds. The team could have fed off Marshall's energy. So yeah, I think Coach K made a mistake by not getting Okafor some rest in the second half. We won but that doesnt mean Coach K is right to play Okafor the whole 20 minutes when he is giving up a lot of offensive rebounds. Two minutes of rest and he's going to contribute a lot more.

Leaving the #1 draft pick out there who is gassed with a bum ankle is not a great decision. Even Lebron manages his minutes so he will be more explosive down the stretch.

slower
02-19-2015, 09:32 AM
Yes, the classic tradition of the "Carolina walk-under" was revived by Joel James, as he "accidentally" caused Jah to land on his foot. Didn't Dean teach the Holes this trick?

Billy Dat
02-19-2015, 09:33 AM
Yea You may be right Reddick4pres, but it happened enough in our game where it was noticeable and it happened at good times for us which is the issue. They need to address this some how, as to not give a team an advantage. Maybe leave the players on the floor so the coaches can't have a free timeout. Like I said I don't have the data and I doubt anyone does to back up either way. I don't know if clock adjustments are a stat that is kept by anyone. Either way the clock operator has to do better. I noticed watching on tv each time the clock was messed up and knew it was going to be a game delay to fix it. They need to address this game wide, in both college and pro the delays are momentum killers.

Agree with this, the clock stoppage was mega sloppy and created huge stoppages which was an advantage to us because our guys were shot.


I agree with the folks who thought Okafor should have sat for a couple of minutes. He was gassed, had no explosiveness and Unc got a 10 point lead because they were running circles around Okafor and getting offensive rebounds. The team could have fed off Marshall's energy. So yeah, I think Coach K made a mistake by not getting Okafor some rest in the second half. We won but that doesnt mean Coach K is right to play Okafor the whole 20 minutes when he is giving up a lot of offensive rebounds. Two minutes of rest and he's going to contribute a lot more.

Leaving the #1 draft pick out there who is gassed with a bum ankle is not a great decision. Even Lebron manages his minutes so he will be more explosive down the stretch.

I think this was 100% about trying to keep him on it so that it didn't have a chance to sit and swell. This is where we need greybeard to school us on the physiology. But, Roy did a better job than K at keeping the players fresh. Getting to OT was key because it was like an Epi-Pen to the thigh.

slower
02-19-2015, 09:33 AM
Although it was a decidedly minor point from last night, I actually thought Grayson looked really good in his limited time out there. Strong moves to the basket and canned his free throws.

Duke3517
02-19-2015, 09:38 AM
If Duke is going to go deep in March they need to be more aggressive in the low block. I feel like a team will just pound Duke to death inside. Just nervous about Duke's overall aggression come tournament time.

superdave
02-19-2015, 09:38 AM
Agree with this, the clock stoppage was mega sloppy and created huge stoppages which was an advantage to us because our guys were shot.



I think this was 100% about trying to keep him on it so that it didn't have a chance to sit and swell. This is where we need greybeard to school us on the physiology. But, Roy did a better job than K at keeping the players fresh. Getting to OT was key because it was like an Epi-Pen to the thigh.

You may be right about ankle swelling. But we were getting beat enough on the boards we should have at least played the twin towers lineup and tried to slow them. I dont want to take away from Okafor's performance. He showed grit. But he was really laboring for a 10 minute stretch and that hurt us.

SCMatt33
02-19-2015, 09:39 AM
So those that know me, know that I'm really not one for ref conspiracy theories, and my normal inclination is to rationalize calls a lot because a) it makes me feels better to think we didn't get screwed, b) there's a huge selection bias in complaining across all sport, and c) being a basketball ref is one of the toughest things out there. With only looking at live action, there's a significant percentage of calls that would have a significant split if you showed it to 100 refs.

That being said, I was going back to watch the replay of the last foul-up-three sequence and noticed that UNC really took a long time to inbound it. I put a stop watch on it and got 6 seconds on the nose from the time Pat Driscoll hands them the ball until the time it leaves the player's hands. On its own, I can't draw any conclusions, because I would suspect that most refs five counts are longer than five seconds. The logic would be that with no reference point, it's pretty hard to be super accurate with it and the last thing you want is to call a five second violation when the player only had it for four seconds. It's sort of like the judicial system being designed more to prevent innocent people from being convicted at the expense of a few guilty people going free.

Then I watched Driscolls count and he had a pretty steady rhythm. 1...2...3...4......then never brought his arm back in for 5. I replayed it again and mirrored is rhythm, and it would have been quite close. Personally, I think they may have juuuust gotten the ball out had he continued that rhythm, but I'm baffled by the mistake. Is it common for refs not to make the fifth count with his arm in anticipation of blowing the whistle? Did Driscoll just freeze? Fooled by a pump fake maybe?

On a side note, with that play happening right in front of the UNC bench and with two time outs left, I'm shocked that they didn't call timeout on three. Then again, this is Roy Williams. He probably has a vault of unused time outs that he swims around in like Scrooge McDuck.

sagegrouse
02-19-2015, 09:40 AM
I hate to say I almost gave up on this one, but it's true. Just an amazing comeback late; what a gutty team. Gotta love Tyus -- what a gamer.

"Almost" gave up? Man, I was thinking through some permanent gameday wardrobe changes from the D-U-K-E sweatshirt I wore all over town today. I was deep into rationalization -- UNC had an amazing game; every team loses sometimes; the Dean Smith thing, etc. etc..... and I didn't think the game was in hand until we grabbed the ball in the corner.

PackMan97
02-19-2015, 09:41 AM
Dear Duke, you have my gratitude for your victory last night. This offer expires on March 07 at which time you'll have to earn it again :)

PS - I think you cut that one too close, but I do appreciate and recognize the style points you get for ripping out those Cheating Hearts with the comeback and overtime victory. Just keep in mind, I prefer 20 point blowouts.

dyedwab
02-19-2015, 09:44 AM
A few thoughts.

1) The fact that our defense feeds on our offensive was never more obvious to me last night. We were up 53-46 with 17:48 when Justise inexplicably missed his bunnie, and the we gave up a 10-0 run to UNC to bring us to the under 16 TO. It was like we were shell-shocked by Justise's miss

2) I don't think you can give Quinn Cook enough praise for the job he did defensively on Marcus Paige. It wasn't that Paige didn't play well, it was that Quinn Cook forced him to play poorly.

3) Okafor was clearly hobbled, but 41 minutes and a double-double on one bad leg is a warrior's game.

4) The resilience of this team is amazing. And we clearly have learned from the State/Miami losses. At points during the 2nd half, it looked like the same cascading failure as those losses, but we ended up figuring out what we needed to do, who needed to have the ball (Tyus) and what we needed to do to stop them. All in all, it was awesome.

Troublemaker
02-19-2015, 09:44 AM
Dear Duke, you have my gratitude for your victory last night. This offer expires on March 07 at which time you'll have to earn it again :)

PS - I think you cut that one too close, but I do appreciate and recognize the style points you get for ripping out those Cheating Hearts with the comeback and overtime victory. Just keep in mind, I prefer 20 point blowouts.

Do you really, PackMan? I would think tearing out UNC hearts is more your style. I bet the UNC fans would've preferred a 20-pt blowout to what happened.

weezie
02-19-2015, 09:46 AM
Has there been any comment on Rasheed being there following team off the court after the game? Friend sitting low says Sheed was dragging his left leg, limping a bit? I totally missed seeing him.

PackMan97
02-19-2015, 09:48 AM
Do you really, PackMan? I would think tearing out UNC hearts is more your style. I bet the UNC fans would've preferred a 20-pt blowout to what happened.

After the fact, I sure do...but I don't like getting there. My heart can't take it. Best to beat the snot out of them and enjoy the game without worrying about ending up at the ER with a heart attack.

Papa John
02-19-2015, 09:48 AM
You may be right about ankle swelling. But we were getting beat enough on the boards we should have at least played the twin towers lineup and tried to slow them. I dont want to take away from Okafor's performance. He showed grit. But he was really laboring for a 10 minute stretch and that hurt us.

But if you decide to sit him, then he's likely done for the night [once that ankle stiffens and swells], so you're making an irrevocable decision to go with MPIII and Amile rather than your #1 NBA draft pick. Given the role Okafor played in the endgame, it's pretty clear that K made the correct decision to keep him in.

Gutty win...

Billy Dat
02-19-2015, 09:48 AM
Dear Duke, you have my gratitude for your victory last night. This offer expires on March 07 at which time you'll have to earn it again :)

PS - I think you cut that one too close, but I do appreciate and recognize the style points you get for ripping out those Cheating Hearts with the comeback and overtime victory. Just keep in mind, I prefer 20 point blowouts.

PackMan97 - you are an outlier of high standards in an era of "that's good enough". We'll try to do better next time. Perhaps we can deliver one of those 20 pointers if we can get a rematch with Lacey and the boys in Greensboro.

By the way, down the stretch, part of me wanted to keep fouling them, Jimmy V style, even when the score was tied. I think I've been watching "Survive and Advance" too much. This year's Duke team are a little "Cardiac Kids" esque with their penchant for late comebacks. Here's hoping the ending is the same - this time, Cook to Plumlee.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 09:49 AM
So those that know me, know that I'm really not one for ref conspiracy theories, and my normal inclination is to rationalize calls a lot because a) it makes me feels better to think we didn't get screwed, b) there's a huge selection bias in complaining across all sport, and c) being a basketball ref is one of the toughest things out there. With only looking at live action, there's a significant percentage of calls that would have a significant split if you showed it to 100 refs.

That being said, I was going back to watch the replay of the last foul-up-three sequence and noticed that UNC really took a long time to inbound it. I put a stop watch on it and got 6 seconds on the nose from the time Pat Driscoll hands them the ball until the time it leaves the player's hands. On its own, I can't draw any conclusions, because I would suspect that most refs five counts are longer than five seconds. The logic would be that with no reference point, it's pretty hard to be super accurate with it and the last thing you want is to call a five second violation when the player only had it for four seconds. It's sort of like the judicial system being designed more to prevent innocent people from being convicted at the expense of a few guilty people going free.

Then I watched Driscolls count and he had a pretty steady rhythm. 1...2...3...4......then never brought his arm back in for 5. I replayed it again and mirrored is rhythm, and it would have been quite close. Personally, I think they may have juuuust gotten the ball out had he continued that rhythm, but I'm baffled by the mistake. Is it common for refs not to make the fifth count with his arm in anticipation of blowing the whistle? Did Driscoll just freeze? Fooled by a pump fake maybe?

On a side note, with that play happening right in front of the UNC bench and with two time outs left, I'm shocked that they didn't call timeout on three. Then again, this is Roy Williams. He probably has a vault of unused time outs that he swims around in like Scrooge McDuck.

Yeah there was a lot of garbage reffing all game long. Not just foul calls, but blatantly obvious missed calls. Like the goaltending on Winslow and Okafor. And the back to back "out of bounds, off Duke" calls. (Well those weren't as obvious)

Yet the focus from the UNC side was the "free timeouts" Duke got at the end with the official reviews of time, etc. They chalked that up to "homecourt" advantage.

They also were displeased with the lack of a foul call on the Paige rebound attempt, which I could agree with, except they shouldn't have had the opportunity if the refs called the 5 second call.

elvis14
02-19-2015, 09:50 AM
Although it was a decidedly minor point from last night, I actually thought Grayson looked really good in his limited time out there. Strong moves to the basket and canned his free throws.

I thought Grayson looked good as well. Was disappointed that Grayson and Marshall didn't see the court in the second half because our guys were gassed and could have used a couple of minutes to rest (physically and mentally).

redick4pres
02-19-2015, 09:52 AM
Yea You may be right Reddick4pres, but it happened enough in our game where it was noticeable and it happened at good times for us which is the issue. They need to address this some how, as to not give a team an advantage. Maybe leave the players on the floor so the coaches can't have a free timeout. Like I said I don't have the data and I doubt anyone does to back up either way. I don't know if clock adjustments are a stat that is kept by anyone. Either way the clock operator has to do better. I noticed watching on tv each time the clock was messed up and knew it was going to be a game delay to fix it. They need to address this game wide, in both college and pro the delays are momentum killers.

Yeah, I totally agree with you that it's a momentum killer and needs to be addressed. I don't buy into the conspiracy theories from the pale blue side of the rivalry, but I do think it turned out to be advantages to us last night. If nothing else it helped us set our defense. Either way, glad it worked out for the good guys! GTHC!!!

Saratoga2
02-19-2015, 09:53 AM
I agree with the folks who thought Okafor should have sat for a couple of minutes. He was gassed, had no explosiveness and Unc got a 10 point lead because they were running circles around Okafor and getting offensive rebounds. The team could have fed off Marshall's energy. So yeah, I think Coach K made a mistake by not getting Okafor some rest in the second half. We won but that doesnt mean Coach K is right to play Okafor the whole 20 minutes when he is giving up a lot of offensive rebounds. Two minutes of rest and he's going to contribute a lot more.

Leaving the #1 draft pick out there who is gassed with a bum ankle is not a great decision. Even Lebron manages his minutes so he will be more explosive down the stretch.

Marshall didn't seem at all effective out there and a tired Okafor was better than a rested Marshall

Billy Dat
02-19-2015, 09:53 AM
I thought Grayson looked good as well. Was disappointed that Grayson and Marshall didn't see the court in the second half because our guys were gassed and could have used a couple of minutes to rest (physically and mentally).

I see a tremendous amount of potential in the "spread out and let Grayson take it to the hole" strategy. We need to sprinkle that in more so that he's ready for more down the stretch.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 09:55 AM
I see a tremendous amount of potential in the "spread out and let Grayson take it to the hole" strategy. We need to sprinkle that in more so that he's ready for more down the stretch.

Those were the best minutes by Allen all season. He seems to be starting to "get it."

I was impressed with the lob attempt to Allen, but trying it on Brice Johnson was ill advised. Can you imagine if he had connected on it though? Yeesh.

redick4pres
02-19-2015, 09:59 AM
Those were the best minutes by Allen all season. He seems to be starting to "get it."

I was impressed with the lob attempt to Allen, but trying it on Brice Johnson was ill advised. Can you imagine if he had connected on it though? Yeesh.

I agree...I jumped off the couch when I saw the lob hoping for that connection. Would have gone down in Blue Devil folklore! Can't wait for Grayson to get some more experience and really show what he's capable of. I think it could come a little bit quicker than I first thought.

Danke Shane
02-19-2015, 10:03 AM
Then I watched Driscolls count and he had a pretty steady rhythm. 1...2...3...4......then never brought his arm back in for 5. I replayed it again and mirrored is rhythm, and it would have been quite close. Personally, I think they may have juuuust gotten the ball out had he continued that rhythm, but I'm baffled by the mistake. Is it common for refs not to make the fifth count with his arm in anticipation of blowing the whistle? Did Driscoll just freeze? Fooled by a pump fake maybe?


I noticed the exact same thing last night while rewatching the DVR footage. The ref continued holding his arm out on beat 4 at least twice as long as his first three motions, as if he were telepathically willing the inbounder to get the pass off before he would be forced to blow the whistle.

CDu
02-19-2015, 10:03 AM
Yeah there was a lot of garbage reffing all game long. Not just foul calls, but blatantly obvious missed calls. Like the goaltending on Winslow and Okafor. And the back to back "out of bounds, off Duke" calls. (Well those weren't as obvious)

Yet the focus from the UNC side was the "free timeouts" Duke got at the end with the official reviews of time, etc. They chalked that up to "homecourt" advantage.

They also were displeased with the lack of a foul call on the Paige rebound attempt, which I could agree with, except they shouldn't have had the opportunity if the refs called the 5 second call.

The goaltend on Winslow was correct. The ball appeared to be over the cylinder, and Winslow hit the rim (which isn't allowed on defense). But I agree that in general the reffing was bad.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 10:06 AM
The goaltend on Winslow was correct. The ball appeared to be over the cylinder, and Winslow hit the rim (which isn't allowed on defense). But I agree that in general the reffing was bad.

You can't hit the rim after you swat the ball?

Also, I didn't think it was over the rim, but it's hard to say since we didn't see a ton of replays of it.

Henderson
02-19-2015, 10:06 AM
Dear Duke, you have my gratitude for your victory last night. This offer expires on March 07 at which time you'll have to earn it again :)

PS - I think you cut that one too close, but I do appreciate and recognize the style points you get for ripping out those Cheating Hearts with the comeback and overtime victory. Just keep in mind, I prefer 20 point blowouts.

You're welcome. Now if you wouldn't mind taking care of business at UNC-CH next week, that would be much appreciated. Oh, and like you, I prefer 20 point blowouts. So work on that, won't you? :D

Wander
02-19-2015, 10:11 AM
Yet the focus from the UNC side was the "free timeouts" Duke got at the end with the official reviews of time, etc. They chalked that up to "homecourt" advantage.


To be fair, by this point, UNC fans have probably forgotten that coaches have timeouts to call at all.

Levon
02-19-2015, 10:13 AM
The Tyus Jones inbound that was tipped...Who was the defending player, and of all our roster, why would we have Jones inbound?

flyingdutchdevil
02-19-2015, 10:13 AM
1) Beautiful ceremony / moment of silence for Dean. I didn't like what a lot of our posters were saying during the "Dean Smith" thread. Loved what Coach K did. Absolutely wonderful.

2) Tyus Jones. Come on down! This kid is ca-lutch! Nicknamed "Tyus Stones" and "Tyus f%$&@ Jones". Both very appropriate. The only downside is Tyus was clearly rattled for the better part of the game. He had 6 turnovers, most of them careless.

3) Tyus brought the game to overtime, but Cook led. He scored 22, had a few clutch rebounds, and, most importantly, shut down Paige (2-11 from the floor). He couldn't do that last year. The Oak is our best player, Tyus is our closer, Winslow is our wildcard, but Cook is our heart. Love it.

4) I have to give so much credit to UNC. They didn't give up. They seemed to get into the paint at will. Their frontcourt (Meeks, Johnson, Hicks, and James) shot 23-33 (70%) from the floor. Yeah...our inside defense sucked last night.

5) I know a lot has been said about Tokoto on this thread, but I really like the dude. His stat line was 15/8/7/3/2, and he's neither the primary ball handler, big man, or top three offensive weapon. He was, without question, the most athletic dude on the floor last night. Which begs the question - why isn't RoyWill getting more out of Tokoto?

6) We all make fun of Britt and James (myself included), but those two scored 17 combined on us. That's 10 more than our entire bench. I vow to no longer make fun of Britt or James.

bbosbbos
02-19-2015, 10:17 AM
I was drunk and pissed off, so I quit the chatroom to calm myself down a little.

I vote big Jah for MOTM. Their 3 bigs rotated to foul him all the time. But Jah stood strong and collected 13 rebounds for us. That is amazing. Without his great performance we do not even have a chance to come back.


THAT WAS ME!!!

Man, it was negative in that chat room. I just felt like we were not going down in our house tonight.

GO DUKE!!!!

daveduke76
02-19-2015, 10:17 AM
Unfortunately my son is not old enough to know how to dial 911 ... because I think daddy had a heart attack.

;)
Very stressful!

daveduke76
02-19-2015, 10:19 AM
1) Beautiful ceremony / moment of silence for Dean. I didn't like what a lot of our posters were saying during the "Dean Smith" thread. Loved what Coach K did. Absolutely wonderful.

2) Tyus Jones. Come on down! This kid is ca-lutch! Nicknamed "Tyus Stones" and "Tyus f%$&@ Jones". Both very appropriate. The only downside is Tyus was clearly rattled for the better part of the game. He had 6 turnovers, most of them careless.

3) Tyus brought the game to overtime, but Cook led. He scored 22, had a few clutch rebounds, and, most importantly, shut down Paige (2-11 from the floor). He couldn't do that last year. The Oak is our best player, Tyus is our closer, Winslow is our wildcard, but Cook is our heart. Love it.

4) I have to give so much credit to UNC. They didn't give up. They seemed to get into the paint at will. Their frontcourt (Meeks, Johnson, Hicks, and James) shot 23-33 (70%) from the floor. Yeah...our inside defense sucked last night.

5) I know a lot has been said about Tokoto on this thread, but I really like the dude. His stat line was 15/8/7/3/2, and he's neither the primary ball handler, big man, or top three offensive weapon. He was, without question, the most athletic dude on the floor last night. Which begs the question - why isn't RoyWill getting more out of Tokoto?

6) We all make fun of Britt and James (myself included), but those two scored 17 combined on us. That's 10 more than our entire bench. I vow to no longer make fun of Britt or James.

Any thoughts on why we didn't play zone at all? They were killing us in the paint and they weren't hitting 3's. Seems like the perfect time for some zone

bbosbbos
02-19-2015, 10:20 AM
Me too. I love that team.



I think I'll enjoy it more the second time knowing the outcome. I still watch 2010 National Championship when I'm feeling down.

roywhite
02-19-2015, 10:23 AM
The Tyus Jones inbound that was tipped...Who was the defending player, and of all our roster, why would we have Jones inbound?

I think that was Tokoto, and I believe he came down out-of-bounds, which would call for a technical. Why Tyus? probably because he's smart and good under pressure.

azzefkram
02-19-2015, 10:28 AM
I agree with the folks who thought Okafor should have sat for a couple of minutes. He was gassed, had no explosiveness and Unc got a 10 point lead because they were running circles around Okafor and getting offensive rebounds. The team could have fed off Marshall's energy. So yeah, I think Coach K made a mistake by not getting Okafor some rest in the second half. We won but that doesnt mean Coach K is right to play Okafor the whole 20 minutes when he is giving up a lot of offensive rebounds. Two minutes of rest and he's going to contribute a lot more.

Leaving the #1 draft pick out there who is gassed with a bum ankle is not a great decision. Even Lebron manages his minutes so he will be more explosive down the stretch.

Not to mention the fact that Meeks/James went 11-14 for 24 points. Okafor the most gifted offensive freshman big I can remember seeing (I just don't remember Elton and Christian's freshman years that well) but he leaves a lot to be desired defensively. Marshall has his warts but he is a far better defender than Jah and can be effective if utilized properly.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-19-2015, 10:29 AM
Tyus always takes the ball out under the basket, because he is our best passer I am assuming.

PackMan97
02-19-2015, 10:32 AM
You're welcome. Now if you wouldn't mind taking care of business at UNC-CH next week, that would be much appreciated. Oh, and like you, I prefer 20 point blowouts. So work on that, won't you? :D

LOL! I hope we don't disappoint, but Carolina isn't our rival any longer. We typically only get up for Duke these days and roll over and play dead for Carolina.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 10:32 AM
- Make ridiculous statements ("I want to beat their butts so bad I can taste it.")? Check


I can only take that to mean that Roy wants to taste butts.

redick4pres
02-19-2015, 10:34 AM
The Tyus Jones inbound that was tipped...Who was the defending player, and of all our roster, why would we have Jones inbound?

Tyus is our best passer so that's why he took the ball out. Tokoto was the one who tipped it. And although I know Tyus always takes it out for us on sets I was still screaming at the TV when the ball was tipped.

77devil
02-19-2015, 10:40 AM
Britt played well, James played well




6) We all make fun of Britt and James (myself included), but those two scored 17 combined on us. That's 10 more than our entire bench. I vow to no longer make fun of Britt or James.

The history of Duke vs. UNC is filled with a litany of players rising to to the rivalry and significantly out performing their typical game. We'll see if these two continue to play at a higher level or revert to the mean.

OldPhiKap
02-19-2015, 10:42 AM
I can only take that to mean that Roy wants to taste butts.

[Beavis]Heh heh. You said "Roy"[/Butthead]

jhmoss1812
02-19-2015, 10:42 AM
Really entertaining game last night. Congrats on the win. If Carolina can bring that kind of passion and intensity to every game, they're easily a top 5 team. The problem is, they don't. Amazing to see them play like that after watching them against UVA and Pitt. Really enjoyable game but there was very little defense, FT shooting was abysmal and some really bonehead plays down the stretch by both teams. But I gotta give props to players on both teams for making some huge plays in an pressure packed game. That boy Tyus Jones got some major stones. Tokoto was so much better than he's been for most of the year. Even Joel James played really well. As an outsider fan (despite growing up in Chapel Hill), that was a lot of fun to watch. Hope the rematch is just as entertaining.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 10:42 AM
The history of Duke vs. UNC is filled with a litany of players rising to to the rivalry and significantly out performing their typical game. We'll see if these two continue to play at a higher level or revert to the mean.

Like 21 points from Leslie McDonald?

CDu
02-19-2015, 10:44 AM
Oh. My. Goodness.

And, by the way, let's give some credit to Wheat here. Britt played well, James played well, and Quinn Cook absolutely shred UNC from beyond the arc. Duke lived by the three, and Jahlil probably could have used a few more touches. So, pretty much everything Wheat said came true. Good thing we won anyway.

Also, six blocks for Amile? Wow.

Finally, I hope Jahlil's ankle is OK. It looked bad when he hurt it.

I'll give Wheat partial credit. Britt played well, but he did so by driving to the basket (which is not what Wheat said). James played well for a few minutes here and there. And we went to Okafor A LOT. Unfortunately, Okafor was limited for much of the middle of the game with the ankle injury, and was getting double-teamed a bunch so he wasn't consistently able to score. I believe he also said that Jackson would be up to the challenge of guarding Winslow. Well, that didn't work out so well, as I felt Winslow got to wherever he wanted to go all game. So I won't say "pretty much everything Wheat said came true." Some of it definitely did, but some of it was driven by context (most notably the Okafor injury).

As for the game, for the first 10-15 minutes, we did everything right defensively. We got back on defense. We covered Paige. We eliminated the backdoor lobs. And we kept UNC off the offensive boards. Then, late in the first half and for much of the second half, we stopped getting back on defense and we stopped boxing out effectively. And UNC absolutely punished us in transition and on the offensive glass. Thankfully, we got things together down the stretch and in overtime and made it largely a half-court, one-shot-per-trip game.

Once again, I thought Okafor was getting mugged in the post. That, along with the ankle injury, led to some sloppy mistakes and turnovers (5 turnovers). But man did I love his fight down the stretch, absolutely dominating in the post. There were several moments of brilliance, including dribbling out of a double team all the way to the 3pt line, then drive through traffic for a layup. Also, the "AND ONE!!! AND F---ING ONE!!!" play was amazing as he just powered his way through Meeks' foul for the bucket.

I was a little disappointed in the sloppiness of Cook and Jones. They combined for 9 turnovers (to just 11 assists). Their struggles coincided with UNC's run to take control of the game. But Cook's scoring early and Jones' scoring late were just huge for us.

Winslow showed again why he is such a huge part of this team. When he plays PF, he is almost unguardable. Heck, he is pretty tough to guard for a SF. But seemingly every time Brice Johnson had the misfortune of guarding Winslow on the perimeter, Winslow made him look leadfooted.

I was VERY happy to see Jefferson have a bounceback game. He was really struggling over the previous 6 games. But last night he was terrific in finding seams and getting buckets. Let's hope that continues.

And finally, how about Cook's defense on Paige? It has been amazing seeing him become a lock-down defender as a senior after years of being a weak on-ball defender.

I do have to give UNC's players credit. They fought incredibly hard to come back and take a big lead. But eventually our talent took over, and they just couldn't "effort" their way all the way to the win. Almost, but not quite.

azzefkram
02-19-2015, 10:45 AM
Super happy with the outcome but the process was not that pretty. My co-workers have been commenting on the palm-shaped mark on my forehead all morning. This was sort of the opposite of the first ND game. Last night we snatched victory from the jaws of defeat. Our backcourt showed up huge down the stretch. I am shocked, but probably shouldn't be, that some are knocking Quinn for missing 2 free throws. He played 45 minutes, scored 22 points and held Paige to 5 points on 2 of 11 shooting.

CDu
02-19-2015, 10:45 AM
You can't hit the rim after you swat the ball?

Also, I didn't think it was over the rim, but it's hard to say since we didn't see a ton of replays of it.

You aren't allowed to touch the rim or the net (or the backboard) as a defender.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 10:49 AM
Super happy with the outcome but the process was not that pretty. My co-workers have been commenting on the palm-shaped mark on my forehead all morning. This was sort of the opposite of the first ND game. Last night we snatched victory from the jaws of defeat. Our backcourt showed up huge down the stretch. I am shocked, but probably shouldn't be, that some are knocking Quinn for missing 2 free throws. He played 45 minutes, scored 22 points and held Paige to 5 points on 2 of 11 shooting.

Playing mostly well doesn't shield you from criticism. He also had 3 turnovers and made some questionable decisions on offense. It's one of those "if only he had hit those FTs" things, not so much a criticism of his overall play.

Billy Dat
02-19-2015, 10:52 AM
I was VERY happy to see Jefferson have a bounceback game. He was really struggling over the previous 6 games. But last night he was terrific in finding seams and getting buckets. Let's hope that continues.

And finally, how about Cook's defense on Paige? It has been amazing seeing him become a lock-down defender as a senior after years of being a weak on-ball defender.


The Amile bounceback was big and not mentioned a lot in this thread. The Cook defense on Paige has been mentioned a few times, but we should probably be saying it over and over as it was likely the key to having a chance at the end. Matt Jones, despite his bad lane violation, was also in the middle of a few huge plays, he got that massive offensive rebound when we were up 1 in OT with 44 seconds to go, and he also was in the right place at the right time down 79-72 when Justise missed the second of 2 missed FTs but they bungle the rebound, M.Jones grabs it and we get it to Tyus for a lay-up and cut it to 5. That play, with 1:38 to go, really made the overall comeback possible - we were nearly out of bullets at that point and needed a break.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 10:55 AM
The Amile bounceback was big and not mentioned a lot in this thread. The Cook defense on Paige has been mentioned a few times, but we should probably be saying it over and over as it was likely the key to having a chance at the end. Matt Jones, despite his bad lane violation, was also in the middle of a few huge plays, he got that massive offensive rebound when we were up 1 in OT with 44 seconds to go, and he also was in the right place at the right time down 79-72 when Justise missed the second of 2 missed FTs but they bungle the rebound, M.Jones grabs it and we get it to Tyus for a lay-up and cut it to 5. That play, with 1:38 to go, really made the overall comeback possible - we were nearly out of bullets at that point and needed a break.

I mentioned it in the pre-game that Amile and Matt were X factors. And mentioned how big they played in this game. You should subscribe to my posts. :p

wilko
02-19-2015, 11:01 AM
If we can cut our TO's in half and Jah plays on 2 good feet, I like our chances in Chapel Hill.

alteran
02-19-2015, 11:02 AM
I think that was Tokoto, and I believe he came down out-of-bounds, which would call for a technical. Why Tyus? probably because he's smart and good under pressure.
That's how I saw it too. He was WAY over the line when he tipped the ball.

HaveFunExpectToWin
02-19-2015, 11:05 AM
This gem from the @icmeltdown twitter feed...

"I swear Roy must redeem extra timeouts at McDonald's day after the game for free hamburgers"

And this... "I've never been so mad at Coach Williams in my life! Horrible coaching. Flat out did not try and win the game"

I did not know that this feed existed, I thank you sir!

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 11:06 AM
That's how I saw it too. He was WAY over the line when he tipped the ball.

While we're at it, I thought Paige left from the 3 point line a little early on the missed FT attempt. I believe the ball has to be over the cylinder before you can enter the 3 point area. That would have prevented Paige from running into Winslow's arm (because that's what happened... hard to call a foul on the defender when you initiate the contact over the back) and eliminated the "controversy" over the no call.

SkyBrickey
02-19-2015, 11:10 AM
If we can cut our TO's in half and Jah plays on 2 good feet, I like our chances in Chapel Hill.

Just about to post a similar thought.

So proud of our guys but if we want to win in CH and be able to stand up against UK in the tourney, we've got to shore up our interior D. Brice and Meeks were dropping in lay ups most of the night.

Get well big Jah. And get ready Mr. Plumlee. We will need you to play big for us to realize our full potential.

Not as worried about the free throws. That was an anomaly balanced out by our extraordinary 3 pt percentage.

uh_no
02-19-2015, 11:11 AM
Any thoughts on why we didn't play zone at all? They were killing us in the paint and they weren't hitting 3's. Seems like the perfect time for some zone

I was going to ask the exact same question. It seems mind boggling to me how after shutting down some really good teams (UL, ND) playing zone we refuse to go to it in a situation which seems to SCREAM zone

1) players tired/mobility limited
2) other team KILLING you on penetration and in the paint
3) other team can't shoot worth a lick

The only thing I can think is K was afraid of giving up MORE O-boards....but heck we were giving up all the O boards anyway.....
It was clear that the defense really fell apart after the okafor injury. he put up no fight in the paint, and was unable to help when the guards got beaten (which happened often in the second half)

I think i recall a single posession of zone in the second half...a 3-2 we ran once. If we had lost I would have said K got out-coached.

As for the offensive droughts, there were two. once at 53 points, and once at 62 points. I rewatched the game last night and took notes on every offensive posessions after we went up 13 (49-36). In both cases, we just had 6-7 empty posessions in a row, and in BOTH cases, only 1 or 2 of them resulted in a marginally good shot. There were three sort of classes of poessions.

1) turnovers...jahlil dribbling it through his defenders leg, tyus bad pass on a break tyus bad pass to a corner shooter, amile dropping a rebound OOB...etc
2) "black hole" posessions....where the guard has the ball and is taking it to the hoop come hell or high water....quinn tyus and justice were all guilty at times. RUN SOME OFFENSE!!!! PASS THE BALL! Jay bilas even made a comment "they're not even running anything" It was very akin to the problems we've had the past two years where when it came to pressure situations, we'd dribble around and end up with a terrible shot.
3) missed shots...we only really got a couple of good shots....one of them was a missed three by tyus, there was a missed layup by amile...but when you're not even getting good shots because of 1, and 2, the good shots you DO get become that much more important....and we missed em.

Anyway, good things:

*In the Tyus and JUstice scored the last 10 or something points in regulation. And this isn't the first time Tyus has decided to take the team on his back down the stretch.
*Outside the above, we took mostly really good shots. we put up 49 in the first half
*we shut down paige.
*we got UNC's bigs in foul trouble...which i think was huge for us in OT. johnson was out and meeks had 4 and knew okafor would dominate if meeks fouled out.

rocketeli
02-19-2015, 11:12 AM
I hate to bring up something like this, but had the clock operator been like that in Chapel Hill I would be livid. There was what 3 different times where the clock needed to be reset? Two of them were before UNC foul shots and all three were after we had used all of our time outs I think. I don't have data to show that this is a trend, but that's just not acceptable. We basically got three extra timeouts because of it and iced UNC free throw shooters. I thought the refs called a really good game, and it was played at an excellent pace. However, if Duke is the one providing the clock operator we need to get that under control. I am sure crowd noise had something to do with it, as I could't even hear the whistle on tv at times. Still there is no excuse and If I was Roy I would have been all over the refs and the clock operator in that kind of environment. Of course he just sat there and looked confused, wondering who he was going to throw under the bus after the game was over.

Of course UNC still has to make their free throws and they deserve every bit of bad luck that gets sent their way, Karma is a Bi---h!!!!

I think this was covered during the massive Clemson clock "controversy' of a few years ago. The home team does NOT provide the timekeeper. They are a part of the officiating crew. One thing that gets me about these obsessions about tenths of seconds at the end of the game is that if you watch carefully any televised games' time you will see many, many incidences of the clock stopping or starting late, and usually a good many seconds are gained/lost over the course of the game and nobody ever seems to notice.

David Bunkley
02-19-2015, 11:14 AM
One of the things I've noticed over the course of this season is that this team almost always jumps out to a pretty decent lead in the first half ony to see it pretty much gone (if not completely) by the under-4 timeout in the 2nd half. I wonder, because they are so talented, do these players get lulled into a false sense of security by their own early game success?

GTHC

Everyone that predicted Quinn Cook would be our best option to guard our opponents' best perimeter scorer, please come forward and claim your prize!

Why doesn't Roy use timeouts to try to halt his opponents' runs? Weird.

Matt Jones has a knack for offenseive rebounding. Pretty cool trait for a guard.

Tyus Jones can marry any member of my family that he wants to, male or female (this is a joke, please don't make it weird)...that's how impressed I am by this kid. If you read my live facebook thread about this game, you'd know that I was absolutely distraught and had given up all hope. He put the team on his back and carried them through the valley of the shadow of death... He feared no evil.

Jahlil Okafor on one leg still has more post moves than 99% of today's NBA big men - that's a little sad.

Justise Winslow should always be attacking. Like always. Even when we aren't playing.

Amile Jefferson played well. I would have liked to have seen him rebound better in these games, but his flashes to the lane on the Jahlil doubles were perfect.

I wanted to see Grayson dunk on Tokoto. Maybe next time?

Marshall Plumlee did a good job of holding the fort down while Jah was out. I often find myself wonder why we don't throw him lobs like we did with his brothers. Is it because his hands don't seem to be great?

Poor free throw shooting (us/them), poor rebounding (us), turnovers (us) are what kept us from blowing this team out.

Overall, a very fun game to watch. I'll type more when my fingernails grow back.



#GODUKE

flyingdutchdevil
02-19-2015, 11:15 AM
I mentioned it in the pre-game that Amile and Matt were X factors. And mentioned how big they played in this game. You should subscribe to my posts. :p

But your definition of an X-factor is not a super duper freshman. Also, given Cook's importance to this team, I'd assume you'd think he can't be an X-factor. So that leaves X-factors to Jefferson, Jones, MP3, or Allen. And two of those players play a lot more than the other two.

M Jones had a great game (other than that awful lane violation). Jefferson had a great stat line but his D was completely off and had a few bad plays.

Dukehky
02-19-2015, 11:15 AM
I know that Amile's +/- is really good, and I know that he had a really good stat line. But I thought he played really poorly. Lot of really poor defensive plays and a lot of mis handled balls after the first 10 minutes of the first half.

We need Amile to be near perfect on offense to be a GREAT team, because he is a borderline game changer on defense.

I don't think K likes playing Marshall and Jah together too much just because if they both got in foul trouble, then we are royally screwed.

Great win, still got some things to figure out. I am worried about the Clemson game.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 11:18 AM
I know that Amile's +/- is really good, and I know that he had a really good stat line. But I thought he played really poorly. Lot of really poor defensive plays and a lot of mis handled balls after the first 10 minutes of the first half.

We need Amile to be near perfect on offense to be a GREAT team, because he is a borderline game changer on defense.

I don't think K likes playing Marshall and Jah together too much just because if they both got in foul trouble, then we are royally screwed.

Great win, still got some things to figure out. I am worried about the Clemson game.

Amile had 6 blocks.

What about his defense was "poor"?

He mishandled some balls, but I wouldn't call it "a lot"... certainly no more than Okafor.

azzefkram
02-19-2015, 11:18 AM
Playing mostly well doesn't shield you from criticism. He also had 3 turnovers and made some questionable decisions on offense. It's one of those "if only he had hit those FTs" things, not so much a criticism of his overall play.

It's a nit-pick and something that Quinn has been subject to on this board for a while. Mostly well... really? 3 turnovers in 45 minutes... wow that's horrible. I find it amazing how people on here minimize Quinn's contributions while at the same time overblowing some pretty average contributions of others.

Billy Dat
02-19-2015, 11:19 AM
I think this was covered during the massive Clemson clock "controversy' of a few years ago. The home team does NOT provide the timekeeper. They are a part of the officiating crew. One thing that gets me about these obsessions about tenths of seconds at the end of the game is that if you watch carefully any televised games' time you will see many, many incidences of the clock stopping or starting late, and usually a good many seconds are gained/lost over the course of the game and nobody ever seems to notice.

There is a fantastic story in Boston Globe/ESPN Bob Ryan's excellent memoir, "Scribe" about Red Auerbach berating a Boston Garden timekeeper whenever he failed to use opportunities, such as the ones we have been describing, to give the Celtics an advantage. A lot goes into being a championship program.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 11:21 AM
But your definition of an X-factor is not a super duper freshman. Also, given Cook's importance to this team, I'd assume you'd think he can't be an X-factor. So that leaves X-factors to Jefferson, Jones, MP3, or Allen. And two of those players play a lot more than the other two.

M Jones had a great game (other than that awful lane violation). Jefferson had a great stat line but his D was completely off and had a few bad plays.

X factor is generally a player that isn't expected to play well. So that disqualifies all of the freshmen, who have proven they are awesome, as well as the established Quinn Cook. That leaves the four you mentioned.

Yes, MP3 and Allen don't play much, but they qualify as X factors because they *could* come up big in a game. MP3 has before.

And we've seen Amile and Matt actually play poorly enough to have a doubt as to if they'd cost us a game.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 11:22 AM
It's a nit-pick and something that Quinn has been subject to on this board for a while. Mostly well... really? 3 turnovers in 45 minutes... wow that's horrible. I find it amazing how people on here minimize Quinn's contributions while at the same time overblowing some pretty average contributions of others.

Didn't say it was horrible. But it's not above criticism.

I even said he played huge in this game, but there's always room to improve.

Dukehky
02-19-2015, 11:24 AM
Jay Crawford still has way too much First Take in him. "On that final rebound he said Paige gets a lot of contact but doesn't get that call, not at Duke."

Paige initiated all of that contact. God I hate the Duke gets all the calls narrative. It is my least favorite of the narratives. I really liked the elitist front-running one though.

Dukehky
02-19-2015, 11:29 AM
Amile had 6 blocks.

What about his defense was "poor"?

He mishandled some balls, but I wouldn't call it "a lot"... certainly no more than Okafor.

So you would say that Amile played well last night after the first 10 minutes?

He obviously wasn't playing well enough to stay in the game. His defensive rotations were poor and he gave up a like 3 and ones.

Also, you can't compare Jah's mistakes to Amile's mistakes. Jah is our best player, and gets way more touches than Amile does, so if Jah has the same number of mishandles as Amile does, that's not a great thing. Jah also has way more responsibilities than Amile does. When Amile catches the ball, he has two choices, that happen almost immediately: if he's on the block, shoot it; if he's on the perimeter, turn and pass to the other guard.

I just thought Amile was the weak link in the chain last night after the 10 minute mark of the first half, and that he normally isn't, nor do I think he will be in the future.

jv001
02-19-2015, 11:30 AM
I was going to ask the exact same question. It seems mind boggling to me how after shutting down some really good teams (UL, ND) playing zone we refuse to go to it in a situation which seems to SCREAM zone

1) players tired/mobility limited
2) other team KILLING you on penetration and in the paint
3) other team can't shoot worth a lick

The only thing I can think is K was afraid of giving up MORE O-boards....but heck we were giving up all the O boards anyway.....
It was clear that the defense really fell apart after the okafor injury. he put up no fight in the paint, and was unable to help when the guards got beaten (which happened often in the second half)

I think i recall a single posession of zone in the second half...a 3-2 we ran once. If we had lost I would have said K got out-coached.
As for the offensive droughts, there were two. once at 53 points, and once at 62 points. I rewatched the game last night and took notes on every offensive posessions after we went up 13 (49-36). In both cases, we just had 6-7 empty posessions in a row, and in BOTH cases, only 1 or 2 of them resulted in a marginally good shot. There were three sort of classes of poessions.

1) turnovers...jahlil dribbling it through his defenders leg, tyus bad pass on a break tyus bad pass to a corner shooter, amile dropping a rebound OOB...etc
2) "black hole" posessions....where the guard has the ball and is taking it to the hoop come hell or high water....quinn tyus and justice were all guilty at times. RUN SOME OFFENSE!!!! PASS THE BALL! Jay bilas even made a comment "they're not even running anything" It was very akin to the problems we've had the past two years where when it came to pressure situations, we'd dribble around and end up with a terrible shot.
3) missed shots...we only really got a couple of good shots....one of them was a missed three by tyus, there was a missed layup by amile...but when you're not even getting good shots because of 1, and 2, the good shots you DO get become that much more important....and we missed em.

Anyway, good things:

*In the Tyus and JUstice scored the last 10 or something points in regulation. And this isn't the first time Tyus has decided to take the team on his back down the stretch.
*Outside the above, we took mostly really good shots. we put up 49 in the first half
*we shut down paige.
*we got UNC's bigs in foul trouble...which i think was huge for us in OT. johnson was out and meeks had 4 and knew okafor would dominate if meeks fouled out.

Good points.
1) We did an ok job on defense except we didn't block out. We played good D and let the cheaters get 2nd shots. Way too many points in the paint.
2) We looked tired and did not get back on defense. More points in the paint(56). It seems that our guards hit the floor after drives to the bucket and don't get up quick enough to get back down court. But there should be other players that take up the slack and hustle back.
3) I thought that the twin towers would have gotten some minutes together in the 2nd half. Especially with Jahlil hurting. I understand Coach K not taking Jahlil out of the lineup. More than likely that ankle would have swelled.
4) our bench made a few individual plays that really helped, but all in all, they didn't play up to their talent level. MPIII 7 minutes against a tall team like uncheat is not enough. Grayson had 4 minutes and looked pretty good. He stepped up and hit his FTs and had one ball go all the way in and come out. Matt had 27 minutes with some good play and some bad. He hit a three and came up with an important offensive rebound late. He did have the mental lapse of getting into the lane too early that gave the cheats a point that they would not have gotten.
5) The team seems to have really come together since Rasheed was bounced off the team. It looks like they know their roles and are taking advantage of the situation.
What a game, probably one of the best in the long rivalry. Oh, wait, I don't consider the Cheats our rivals any longer. GoDuke!

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 11:34 AM
So you would say that Amile played well last night after the first 10 minutes?

He obviously wasn't playing well enough to stay in the game. His defensive rotations were poor and he gave up a like 3 and ones.

Also, you can't compare Jah's mistakes to Amile's mistakes. Jah is our best player, and gets way more touches than Amile does, so if Jah has the same number of mishandles as Amile does, that's not a great thing. Jah also has way more responsibilities than Amile does. When Amile catches the ball, he has two choices, that happen almost immediately: if he's on the block, shoot it; if he's on the perimeter, turn and pass to the other guard.

I just thought Amile was the weak link in the chain last night after the 10 minute mark of the first half, and that he normally isn't, nor do I think he will be in the future.

Amile was pulled to prevent the double teams on Jah, not because of poor play. Having Matt Jones in stretched the defense a bit more.

Amile still played 29 minutes and contributed heavily.

And yes, you can compare Amile's and Jah's mistakes. Mistakes are mistakes.

tbyers11
02-19-2015, 11:41 AM
It's a nit-pick and something that Quinn has been subject to on this board for a while. Mostly well... really? 3 turnovers in 45 minutes... wow that's horrible. I find it amazing how people on here minimize Quinn's contributions while at the same time overblowing some pretty average contributions of others.

With you on this thought. Several posts have dinged Quinn (rightfully so) for some forced drives/bad shot selection during our poor offensive stretch in the 2nd half, but very little mention of Justise, Tyus, and Matt doing the same thing in the during that stretch.

devildeac
02-19-2015, 11:41 AM
After the fact, I sure do...but I don't like getting there. My heart can't take it. Best to beat the snot out of them and enjoy the game without worrying about ending up at the ER with a heart attack.

If you're in Raleigh and that happens, have them call me. If you're in Charlotte, I don't think davekay1971 would mind a call. ;)

If it's during a Duke-NCSU game, all bets/calls are off:p.

Billy Dat
02-19-2015, 11:43 AM
God I hate the Duke gets all the calls narrative. It is my least favorite of the narratives.

Sadly, this one is getting huge play and started shortly after the game ended. The primary targets being the perception that:

-Berry did not foul Jones on the +1 with less than a minute in regulation
-Winslow held Tokoto to spring Tyus for the game tying lay-up with 30 seconds to go
-The repeated clock monitoring which led to Duke catching its breath
-Jones and Winslow fouling Paige on the final play in OT

The media coverage I have seen does seem to concede that the Winslow block on Johnson, with 46 secs to go, was clean. There is also little mention of Jah getting mugged all game long, but there never is.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 11:44 AM
With you on this thought. Several posts have dinged Quinn (rightfully so) for some forced drives/bad shot selection during our poor offensive stretch in the 2nd half, but very little mention of Justise, Tyus, and Matt doing the same thing in the during that stretch.

Tyus and Winslow tend to get a pass for those types of drives because they generally have better success. Matt Jones... eh. He shouldn't be doing that.

devildeac
02-19-2015, 11:47 AM
LOL! I hope we don't disappoint, but Carolina isn't our rival any longer. We typically only get up for Duke these days and roll over and play dead for Carolina.

More true words were never spoken:rolleyes:.

MChambers
02-19-2015, 11:48 AM
Mason, in fact, had a huge reverse dunk in the Dean Dome his freshman year.
As I recall, Mason did his in traffic in the halfcourt, using the rim to shield the ball. Tokoto did his on a breakaway. I'm not concerned about Tokoto's dunk, but wanted to point out the difference.

azzefkram
02-19-2015, 11:56 AM
Tyus and Winslow tend to get a pass for those types of drives because they generally have better success. Matt Jones... eh. He shouldn't be doing that.

You have an odd definition of success.

JW .483 from 2
TJ .452 from 2
MJ .422 from 2
QC .532 from 2

Quinn makes mistakes at times but much less than people bellyache about. His turnover rate is the lowest on the team and his FC is 2.2.

Bluedog
02-19-2015, 11:58 AM
Roy sure did get in some indirect complaints about the officials as well as "woe is me" remarks during his post-game press conference:

"Well, it’s extremely disappointing [...] If you happen to just like college basketball, then you had to enjoy that part of it, but I happen to love North Carolina. So, it’s not so agreeable with me."

"Then we set an illegal screen, and we work so hard to set legal screens."

"I don’t want anybody fouling out. I hated the fourth foul. His man was setting up a screen on the ball and he got cracked and he reached in and got the foul."

"We take the last shot of regulation and it was a dogpile. I thought we got murdered in that, but the officials have to call the game by what they see."

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 11:59 AM
You have an odd definition of success.

JW .483 from 2
TJ .452 from 2
MJ .422 from 2
QC .532 from 2

Quinn makes mistakes at times but much less than people bellyache about. His turnover rate is the lowest on the team and his FC is 2.2.

"From 2" doesn't always mean layups in traffic.

Yes, his overall turnover rate is low. But not last night.

Newton_14
02-19-2015, 12:01 PM
Sadly, this one is getting huge play and started shortly after the game ended. The primary targets being the perception that:

-Berry did not foul Jones on the +1 with less than a minute in regulation
-Winslow held Tokoto to spring Tyus for the game tying lay-up with 30 seconds to go
-The repeated clock monitoring which led to Duke catching its breath
-Jones and Winslow fouling Paige on the final play in OT

The media coverage I have seen does seem to concede that the Winslow block on Johnson, with 46 secs to go, was clean. There is also little mention of Jah getting mugged all game long, but there never is.

The AP Writer also got a jab in on his last sentence of the article. He wanted a foul call on the scrum at the end of regulation. Word to haters: There is no ref on the planet that is going to call a foul on anyone in the below situations:

1. The end of regulation scrum. No chance no how in any building against any team
2. The end of game scramble for the rebound. It would have been horrible officiating to call a foul there
3. Winslow "holding Tokoto", seriously?? Do folks know how many layups unc-cheat has gotten over the years by the big holding off his man to prevent a block attempt? Can anyone recall one similar foul call like ever, in a situation like the Jones layup to tie?

The clock crap. In today's game with less than 2 minutes to go, refs go to the scorer's table numerous times to check the clock in close games. Anyone who watches a lot of college hoops knows this to be true. And they take forever giving both teams both rest and free timeouts. And 99 times out of a 100 they adjust the clock one way or the other during those checks. There is no conspiracy in Durham.

I had a good friend of mine that pulls for the cheats text me after the game last night. The cordial comments lasted a total of 3 texts before he went there. "Of course several of those "and-ones" in the last 2 minutes were phantom calls" at which point I cut my phone off and went to bed.

Heck we missed half the free throws there so it did not matter anyway in that context.

Finally, here's my take on the Roy/Quinn exchange:

Quinn: You know coach I think the world of you and I have no doubt in my mind you had no idea all that cheating was going on right up under your nose. Seriously coach, there's just no way you would do that.

Roy: bawaaaahhaaaa! ROTFLMAO. Quinn, you did my heart good there even though you are way off. Say, I have a nice house you can stay in after graduating if you want too!

diablesseblu
02-19-2015, 12:07 PM
George Karl was on "The Dan Patrick Show" this AM and was whining about last night's officiating. Patrick pressed him and he said (paraphrase) "some venues intimidate officials."

I wish UNC fans would "next play" just once.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 12:09 PM
George Karl was on "The Dan Patrick Show" this AM and was whining about last night's officiating. Patrick pressed him and he said (paraphrase) "some venues intimidate officials."

I wish UNC fans would "next play" just once.

He's right - the officiating was garbage. For both sides.

Too bad UNC fans never seem to acknowledge that.

Mal
02-19-2015, 12:10 PM
Thread's almost played out, so nothing to do but add on to others' points, I guess:

1. Quinn was clearly the MoTM, in my opinion, for reasons stated by others. Everyone had blemishes in their game last night, but his were the smallest (other than Winslow's, maybe), and his contributions were as large as anyone's on offense and greater on defense.

2. I had no problem whatsoever with Tokoto's reverse dunk. In fact, it was pretty awesome. Those things get your teammates fired up so should be done when possible. He didn't pound his chest, or make faces and taunt the crowd, he didn't throw it off the backboard or swing around on the rim needlessly, or strut around afterwards or whatever else. He just flew through the air gracefully, philosophically even, and sent it in. If there was ever a thoughtful, circumspect reverse two-handed jam, that was it. My 8-year-old son was impressed, despite it coming from the opponent. "Whoooaaaah! He almost hit his head on the rim!" Plenty of UNC things to get your hate on for, but Tokoto strikes me as one of those Heels who's very difficult to dislike. Like Antawn Jamison. Frankly, I'm having a hard time finding much to dislike about them from this one game, which is the only time I've seen them this year, so I'm just going to continue to focus on Roy and the academic scandal.

3. The endgame performance was as clutch as can be, but Tyus' turnovers were uncharacteristically sloppy earlier in the game. He had some terribly ill-advised passes out there, which stood out all the more because usually he's so careful with the ball.

4. Most impressive play of the game was Jah's first half dribble out of a double team to the top of the key then drive the left side of the lane for a scooping layup. Not many 6'4" guards have that kind of body control.

5. I think playing in a game like this where the refs let things go in the paint will serve us well down the road. Okafor's never been bodied up and pushed around like that in his life, but he eventually figured out how to plant himself, back guys down and take control anyway. I would hate to have him learning that for the first time in a regional semi against Michigan State. We've all seen that pattern where our teams can't adjust quickly enough to wild west officiating in the NCAA's, and we get punished in the post by physical teams who know how to play that style.

DukeHLM'13
02-19-2015, 12:11 PM
As for the game, for the first 10-15 minutes, we did everything right defensively. We got back on defense. We covered Paige. We eliminated the backdoor lobs. And we kept UNC off the offensive boards. Then, late in the first half and for much of the second half, we stopped getting back on defense and we stopped boxing out effectively. And UNC absolutely punished us in transition and on the offensive glass. Thankfully, we got things together down the stretch and in overtime and made it largely a half-court, one-shot-per-trip game.


Really, we did everything right? Maybe for the first 3-4 minutes, but certainly not for the majority of the half.

I'm pretty sure that our actually not so great D was getting covered up by the outstanding offense. UNC was on pace to hit ~40 points for the half from about 5 minutes in on. As far as I'm concerned, the idea that we are doing everything right on D ends as soon as you're giving up more than 30 in a half, much less 40.

Great offense certainly makes up for a lot of defensive weaknesses, but doesn't actually change the fact that the team was not playing well on defense for most of the first half.

gus
02-19-2015, 12:11 PM
"From 2" doesn't always mean layups in traffic.

Yes, his overall turnover rate is low. But not last night.

You're moving the goalposts. Your assertion was about a trend, not just last night. And your assertion is belied by facts.

You stated, in defense of the undeserved Cook bellyaching we're constantly subjected to here, that "Tyus and Winslow tend to get a pass for those types of drives because they generally have better success".

This is objectively false.

The phenomenon of upper class guards being nitpicked, and freshman getting a pass is not new or exclusive to Cook though. I remember criticizing Collins and thinking he should defer more to Capel. Then the next crop of underclassmen criticized Capel.

Newton_14
02-19-2015, 12:12 PM
The goaltend on Winslow was correct. The ball appeared to be over the cylinder, and Winslow hit the rim (which isn't allowed on defense). But I agree that in general the reffing was bad.

Correct on the rule. I think they call goal tending there whether he hits the rim or not but hitting the rim made it a done deal.

Britt/James (The big Oaf). I thought Britt played about as well as he can play. That was about the max of his talent. (Tokoto of course was the "average player turned All Star" which happens a lot in this type game).

James only looked good because 2 of the 3 shots he took happened to go in. The 3rd attempt was a jumphook from 4 feet that he shot completely over the goal, bricking the lower backboard on the other side. That is more in line with his normal touch. That combined with fouling Okafor on every possession and only getting called 3 times. There is a reason Roy plays him limited minutes. Then there is the play where he dangerously puts his feet under an airborne shooter. The guy is dangerous due to lack of control of a very big body. Refs need to officiate him a lot tighter. If he is constantly in foul trouble early in first halves of games he will be forced to be more cautious. He could have easily been fouled out of the first half last night if officiated correctly, and maybe Jahlil doesn't almost break his ankle or foot like the Pinson kid.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 12:16 PM
You're moving the goalposts. Your assertion was about a trend, not just last night. And your assertion is belied by facts.

You stated, in defense of the undeserved Cook bellyaching we're constantly subjected to here, that "Tyus and Winslow tend to get a pass for those types of drives because they generally have better success".

This is objectively false.

The phenomenon of upper class guards being nitpicked, and freshman getting a pass is not new or exclusive to Cook though. I remember criticizing Collins and thinking he should defer more to Capel. Then the next crop of underclassmen criticized Capel.


I'm not moving the goalposts.

The "facts" presented cover a LARGE area of the court for 2 point field goals. This includes jumpers, runners and uncontested layups. My assertion was that Tyus and Winslow are better at finishing in traffic. If there is a stat that can dispute that I'd be glad to recant my statement. FG% from 2 does nothing to dispute it.

Also, I think upperclassmen guards get nitpicked more because of the following:

a) they have shown the same habits their entire career at Duke
b) they should know better by now

Freshmen get a pass because they have some time to learn.

Henderson
02-19-2015, 12:31 PM
One takeaway for me is that Carolina is a very good team. I happen to think their woes are largely to do with coaching issues, but I don't want to rekindle that debate here.

Don't underestimate Carolina. Their record makes it tempting. But this is a team with really good players. A dangerous team. A very dangerous team that will be somewhere in your NCAAT bracket, probably at 4-6. Watch out.

fgb
02-19-2015, 12:33 PM
Marshall has his warts but he is a far better defender than Jah and can be effective if utilized properly.

agree completely; i was basically laughing at bilas, when he was questioning the heels' strategy when okafor came out in the first half of not going immediately inside on offense. i was basically yelling at the television, "BECAUSE, JAY, MARSHALL IS A BETTER DEFENDER THAT OKAFOR!"

Henderson
02-19-2015, 12:41 PM
agree completely; i was basically laughing at bilas, when he was questioning the heels' strategy when okafor came out in the first half of not going immediately inside on offense. i was basically yelling at the television, "BECAUSE, JAY, MARSHALL IS A BETTER DEFENDER THAT OKAFOR!"

It's two, TWO, TWO mints in one!

fgb
02-19-2015, 12:43 PM
Amile was pulled to prevent the double teams on Jah, not because of poor play. Having Matt Jones in stretched the defense a bit more.

this is the problem; amile shouldn't be pulled to prevent teams from doubling okafor; he should be making teams pay a price for doubling okafor.

we've all seen that the kid can score; he actually is pretty crafty with the ball around the basket when he's feeling confident. and we are going to need a confident amile in march.

BD80
02-19-2015, 12:44 PM
Sportscenter so good to watch from Cameron after the game. Jabari, Quinn and Tysus interviews and my favourite quote from the talking heads was:

Rivalry...not oversold
Cameron...not oversold...

The recruits have got to be impressed. ...

That game and subsequent SportsCenter coverage was better recruitment propaganda than Blue Planet could come up with. Kids in the classes of 2017, 18, 19 etc HAVE to be thinking that it would be worth checking out Duke. The gushing was almost embarrassing. Almost.


I don't really get the complaints about J.Ps. Reverse Dunk. ...

That was an Alpha move. The kind of thing that pumps up your team and demoralizes the opposing team and crowd. It's not chest pounding or dancing down the sidelines swinging your arms like an idiot. I wish Justise would get a few opportunities for that kind of statement.


There is a fantastic story in Boston Globe/ESPN Bob Ryan's excellent memoir, "Scribe" about Red Auerbach berating a Boston Garden timekeeper whenever he failed to use opportunities, such as the ones we have been describing, to give the Celtics an advantage. A lot goes into being a championship program.

The Boston way ...


I was very impressed with the coaching during the game. Contrasting styles of coaching, styles of play and talent available.

ol' roy was ready for us to play zone, and although a poor shooting team, the heels were ready to space, pass, and penetrate the zone and dominate the offensive glass (a floater in the lane would either be a basket or a pass into the post). Unleashing the break in the second half was particularly effective as Jah was having trouble keeping up with unc's bigs down the court. I think ol' roy believes his team is at an advantage when sets break down, and is afraid of taking time outs to give Coach K a chance to set his defense and prepare his players.

Coach K was simply the best coach in basketball. Put his players in attack mode at the right time, gave them the confidence to win. His free-throw defense schemes down the stretch were brilliant!

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 12:45 PM
this is the problem; amile shouldn't be pulled to prevent teams from doubling okafor; he should be making teams pay a price for doubling okafor.

we've all seen that the kid can score; he actually is pretty crafty with the ball around the basket when he's feeling confident. and we are going to need a confident amile in march.

Oh I agree.

I was just pointing out that he was not pulled for "playing poorly." Was his best game in weeks.

flyingdutchdevil
02-19-2015, 12:52 PM
So you would say that Amile played well last night after the first 10 minutes?

He obviously wasn't playing well enough to stay in the game. His defensive rotations were poor and he gave up a like 3 and ones.

Also, you can't compare Jah's mistakes to Amile's mistakes. Jah is our best player, and gets way more touches than Amile does, so if Jah has the same number of mishandles as Amile does, that's not a great thing. Jah also has way more responsibilities than Amile does. When Amile catches the ball, he has two choices, that happen almost immediately: if he's on the block, shoot it; if he's on the perimeter, turn and pass to the other guard.

I just thought Amile was the weak link in the chain last night after the 10 minute mark of the first half, and that he normally isn't, nor do I think he will be in the future.

I agree with the bolded part. Amile's stat line is impressive, but it is also somewhat deceiving. UNC was murdering us inside and poor rotations coupled with bad positioning.

Amile Jefferson is a very perplexing player this year. He's been excellent around the rim and can score, but he doesn't look for his shot even when in ideal positioning. His defense can also be anywhere from mediocre to excellent, even during the same game. I am gunning for Jefferson to really improve in the next month.

tux
02-19-2015, 12:55 PM
One thing that happens in these games (i.e., Duke-UNC) is that each possession seems to take on such importance to fans that every little reach in, over the back, push, etc. is burned into our brains, especially for the losing side. E.g., as a Duke fan, I thought Okafor was fouled several times without a whistle. The Winslow block/foul was at a critical juncture and there was no contact on Johnson's arm IMO. So, yeah, I'm sure UNC fans have a substantial list of non-calls/calls to build the usual conspiracies around. It's just baked into the cake of these games...

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet in the thread, but I was a little surprised that Duke never went zone. (At least I never saw the zone defense.) With Okafor hurting, and UNC shooting so poorly from three, it seemed like a logical move. I wonder if the Duke staff thought UNC would prepare to see a lot of zone, so playing man the entire game was meant to be a surprising tactic or wrinkle...

Also really surprised that Plumlee didn't see at least a few minutes in the 2nd half... like a lot of folks, my guess is that Duke was fearful of the ankle tightening up, thus limiting Okafor's effectiveness down the stretch.

slower
02-19-2015, 01:01 PM
Then there is the play where he dangerously puts his feet under an airborne shooter. The guy is dangerous due to lack of control of a very big body. Refs need to officiate him a lot tighter. If he is constantly in foul trouble early in first halves of games he will be forced to be more cautious. He could have easily been fouled out of the first half last night if officiated correctly, and maybe Jahlil doesn't almost break his ankle or foot like the Pinson kid.

THIS x 1000. UNC players have been doing this for about 40 years, haven't they? It's BS and it's dangerous. That "walk-under" by James was, to me, the biggest play of the game.

sagegrouse
02-19-2015, 01:06 PM
There is a fantastic story in Boston Globe/ESPN Bob Ryan's excellent memoir, "Scribe" about Red Auerbach berating a Boston Garden timekeeper whenever he failed to use opportunities, such as the ones we have been describing, to give the Celtics an advantage. A lot goes into being a championship program.

Oh, so that's where Bill Belichick learned how to scheme?

flyingdutchdevil
02-19-2015, 01:19 PM
If you have access to ESPN Insider, please read this article: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/story/_/id/12339485/film-session-duke-freshman-pg-tyus-jones-nba-draft

Title: Film Session: Tyus Jones thrives in big moments

It's pretty ridiculous. The stats about Tyus as a PG are off-the-charts. So much better than I thought.

Billy Dat
02-19-2015, 01:19 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet in the thread, but I was a little surprised that Duke never went zone. (At least I never saw the zone defense.) With Okafor hurting, and UNC shooting so poorly from three, it seemed like a logical move. I wonder if the Duke staff thought UNC would prepare to see a lot of zone, so playing man the entire game was meant to be a surprising tactic or wrinkle...

It has been mentioned here and there but I think it was a big mistake.

The wisdom seems to be that we'd be stressing ourselves more on the glass from the zone...but I agree with those saying we were already getting killed on the glass. The one time I remember us going zone the Heels looked CLUELESS.

However, I think if we reviewed the tape, we got hurt far more by their transition offense. I was literally screaming GET BACK every time one of our guys lingered to watch their shot or their momentum carried them under the basket on a drive. If I am an opponent that can pull it off (e.g. Kentucky), the UNC gameplan from last night is the blueprint to beat us. Thankfully, getting back on defense should be something that we can fix.

fgb
02-19-2015, 01:28 PM
possible we're backing off zone some now so that other teams don't get too much film on it.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 01:30 PM
possible we're backing off zone some now so that other teams don't get too much film on it.

Could also be flat out stubbornness. :)

azzefkram
02-19-2015, 01:37 PM
I'm not moving the goalposts.

The "facts" presented cover a LARGE area of the court for 2 point field goals. This includes jumpers, runners and uncontested layups. My assertion was that Tyus and Winslow are better at finishing in traffic. If there is a stat that can dispute that I'd be glad to recant my statement. FG% from 2 does nothing to dispute it.

Also, I think upperclassmen guards get nitpicked more because of the following:

a) they have shown the same habits their entire career at Duke
b) they should know better by now

Freshmen get a pass because they have some time to learn.

http://www.hoop-math.com/Duke2015.php

Happy?

Henderson
02-19-2015, 01:41 PM
http://www.hoop-math.com/Duke2015.php

Happy?

Not happy (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/24/marcus-paige-roy-williams-dance-to-pharrells-happy-video/).

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 01:43 PM
http://www.hoop-math.com/Duke2015.php

Happy?

Always happy to get new stat sources. :)

But none of those stats show "contested" layups. Cook is higher on "shots at rim" than Winslow and considerably higher than Tyus. But it doesn't prove that he finishes better in traffic. It also doesn't take into account the shots that Tyus/Winslow take that end up in drawn fouls (which don't turn into attempts unless they're made). There's a reason Cook wasn't close to qualifying for the FT title until this past week. And even then, he needed to rack up end of game fouls to get there.

Guido
02-19-2015, 01:43 PM
there was a question the other day about whether ESPN uses crowd mics, and that could cause the crowd to appear quieter on TV.....they do. I took a picture. they mount these http://tcfurlong.com/wp-content/uploads/A2003UHF-xlarge.jpg
facing the student section

Those aren't microphones; they are directional wireless microphone antenna amplifiers. They are used to increase the range and reliability of wireless microphones (such as those used by court-side reporters).

http://en-us.sennheiser.com/a-2003-uhf

Kedsy
02-19-2015, 01:44 PM
We don't have a lot of depth though and can be made uncomfortable by a deep team that wants to play at a fast pace.

I continue not to understand this narrative. The 2001 team, for example, played at a very fast pace all the time and basically had a six man rotation. I could give many more examples and they all show the same thing: Duke rarely has more than 7 players playing 10+ minutes in non-blowouts. This Duke team has 8 available players, which by my count is more than 7.

I can see the complaint that with only 8 players it's harder to practice, or that we're possibly more vulnerable to injury or foul trouble, but it simply isn't true that we're more vulnerable to "deep team[s] that want to play at a fast pace" than we have been in any other season.


Also, damn. Get a defensive rebound.

For the season, UNC on average rebounds 41.9% of its own misses. Against Duke, they only rebounded 36.5% of their misses. I'm not saying Duke's defensive rebounding was great or anything, but at least we did better than the average UNC opponent, which ought to count for something.


I celebrated before the game with a 750 ml Pisgah Cosmos. The game was as good as the beer---at least.:)

I started the game with a Flying Dog Old Scratch amber lager. Then I switched to other beers. With 3 or 4 minutes left in regulation, I decided I needed to switch back to the Old Scratch.

You're welcome.

bluesin
02-19-2015, 01:48 PM
That's how I saw it too. He was WAY over the line when he tipped the ball.

I'm glad at least two other people saw that, and I wasn't just losing my mind. What blew me away is that the ref was standing there and looking right at him while he jumped out of bounds to disrupt the inbound pass, if we had lost I'd have been livid that we didn't get the tech called there, I'm pretty upset by it as it is. I can understand not calling fouls in open play because of the vagaries of what a ref considers contact or what-have you, but I cannot understand not calling something clear and procedural - similar to the 5 second calls that seemed, at worst, questionable discussed up thread. Rather I guess I can understand it but being bad at your job doesn't seem like much of an excuse to me.

As for going zone, I'd say a big reason we stayed in man was Paige. The fastest way to get the other teams best 3 point shooter on track is to run a defense that will let him get easier looks at 3. I'd venture to guess that K was going with his strategy of denying the other teams best player their looks, it was going well and he thought that it was the best way to stay in the game. Why give Paige the chance to get on track AND weaken our rebounding potential (which was outstanding through the last 8 minutes or so of game time) AND give our guys a chance to breath a little bit on defense and realize how tired they might be? I like the zone look we've got but it didn't seem like it offered a lot of benefits to our man in the heat of the game and had a lot of potential to disrupt all the good things we were doing. It definitely could have worked, but I don't know if it was worth the risk and apparently K didn't think it was either.

NYBri
02-19-2015, 01:48 PM
Sadly, this one is getting huge play and started shortly after the game ended. The primary targets being the perception that:

-Berry did not foul Jones on the +1 with less than a minute in regulation
-Winslow held Tokoto to spring Tyus for the game tying lay-up with 30 seconds to go
-The repeated clock monitoring which led to Duke catching its breath
-Jones and Winslow fouling Paige on the final play in OT

The media coverage I have seen does seem to concede that the Winslow block on Johnson, with 46 secs to go, was clean. There is also little mention of Jah getting mugged all game long, but there never is.

Hey. We won. Who cares what "they" say. We won, they lost. That is what is in the books and what will be remembered.

Henderson
02-19-2015, 01:51 PM
Heaven is a place where fans, win or lose, don't complain about officiating after a game is decided.

NYBri
02-19-2015, 01:51 PM
Roy sure did get in some indirect complaints about the officials as well as "woe is me" remarks during his post-game press conference:

"Well, it’s extremely disappointing [...] If you happen to just like college basketball, then you had to enjoy that part of it, but I happen to love North Carolina. So, it’s not so agreeable with me."

"Then we set an illegal screen, and we work so hard to set legal screens."

"I don’t want anybody fouling out. I hated the fourth foul. His man was setting up a screen on the ball and he got cracked and he reached in and got the foul."

"We take the last shot of regulation and it was a dogpile. I thought we got murdered in that, but the officials have to call the game by what they see."

Boo frickin' Hoo, Roy.

Kedsy
02-19-2015, 01:52 PM
Always happy to get new stat sources. :)

But none of those stats show "contested" layups. Cook is higher on "shots at rim" than Winslow and considerably higher than Tyus. But it doesn't prove that he finishes better in traffic. It also doesn't take into account the shots that Tyus/Winslow take that end up in drawn fouls (which don't turn into attempts unless they're made). There's a reason Cook wasn't close to qualifying for the FT title until this past week. And even then, he needed to rack up end of game fouls to get there.

Perhaps it doesn't "prove" it, but it strongly suggests it. How many uncontested layups does Quinn Cook get? Maybe a few on fast breaks, but I don't get the feeling he gets more of those than Tyus or Matt, and probably a lot fewer than Justise. And at Quinn's height, it's hard to imagine (or recollect) he gets many uncontested layups in the half court (and he doesn't get any dunks at all). And his percentage at the rim (64.1%) is so much higher than Tyus's (55.1%) and sooooo much higher than Matt's (43.6%) that even if he gets a few more uncontested layups (which I don't think he does), his percentage on the contested ones would still be higher.

I think you ought to just gracefully concede the point to azzefkram. He or she is right.

jv001
02-19-2015, 01:52 PM
Hey. We won. Who cares what "they" say. We won, they lost. That is what is in the books and what will be remembered.

The uncheaters say they did nothing wrong and everyone does it. Same old stuff even from some Carolina way posters on this board. GoDuke!

azzefkram
02-19-2015, 01:53 PM
Always happy to get new stat sources. :)

But none of those stats show "contested" layups. Cook is higher on "shots at rim" than Winslow and considerably higher than Tyus. But it doesn't prove that he finishes better in traffic. It also doesn't take into account the shots that Tyus/Winslow take that end up in drawn fouls (which don't turn into attempts unless they're made). There's a reason Cook wasn't close to qualifying for the FT title until this past week. And even then, he needed to rack up end of game fouls to get there.


Now you are moving the goalposts. The reason Quinn hadn't qualified has nothing to do with contested/uncontested layups. It's because he shoots over 60% of his shots from 3 pt range. Also, isn't the goal to take uncontested shots.

CarmenWallaceWade
02-19-2015, 01:54 PM
I wish UNC fans would "next play" just once.

Would require accountability. Not in their DNA.

FerryFor50
02-19-2015, 02:03 PM
Perhaps it doesn't "prove" it, but it strongly suggests it. How many uncontested layups does Quinn Cook get? Maybe a few on fast breaks, but I don't get the feeling he gets more of those than Tyus or Matt, and probably a lot fewer than Justise. And at Quinn's height, it's hard to imagine (or recollect) he gets many uncontested layups in the half court (and he doesn't get any dunks at all). And his percentage at the rim (64.1%) is so much higher than Tyus's (55.1%) and sooooo much higher than Matt's (43.6%) that even if he gets a few more uncontested layups (which I don't think he does), his percentage on the contested ones would still be higher.

I think you ought to just gracefully concede the point to azzefkram. He or she is right.

I'll stop belaboring the point, but I won't concede. There's no stat that is telling us definitively what is going on regarding contested/uncontested. There are also factors like *how* contested they are, etc. And given Quinn's height, that's generally why he shoots 60% of his shots from 3.

It's all eye test. And my eye test generally think it's a bad idea to for Quinn to take it in on a team loaded with size like UNC is.

grossbus
02-19-2015, 02:03 PM
a difference of more than 8 miles.

here on DBR, the post game thread is still at the top. on IC, when i looked earlier, it was at the bottom of the second page. everything else between the first entry and that thread were game related comments; gnashings, thrashings, lamentations and the like.

tux
02-19-2015, 02:24 PM
As for going zone, I'd say a big reason we stayed in man was Paige. The fastest way to get the other teams best 3 point shooter on track is to run a defense that will let him get easier looks at 3. I'd venture to guess that K was going with his strategy of denying the other teams best player their looks, it was going well and he thought that it was the best way to stay in the game. Why give Paige the chance to get on track AND weaken our rebounding potential (which was outstanding through the last 8 minutes or so of game time) AND give our guys a chance to breath a little bit on defense and realize how tired they might be? I like the zone look we've got but it didn't seem like it offered a lot of benefits to our man in the heat of the game and had a lot of potential to disrupt all the good things we were doing. It definitely could have worked, but I don't know if it was worth the risk and apparently K didn't think it was either.

That may be right. If one of the main goals was to neutralize Paige's offense, then it made sense to stay with what was working on that front. But after the initial minutes when UNC looked out of sorts on offense, they really started to score at an alarming rate. They were driving the ball and their bigs were scoring pretty easily over Okafor. Some of those shots were contested, but Meeks and Johnson were racking up a lot of point blank baskets. So, it would be hard for me to say that Duke's defense was "working", but Cook was obviously keeping Paige from going off, which turned out to be a key to Duke's win... so, I guess I'm happy it worked out. Just surprised (especially after Jah was limping around out there) that we didn't see more of the zone.

Also possible that the coaches saw something during scouting UNC that convinced them to stick with the man defense...

OldPhiKap
02-19-2015, 02:26 PM
That may be right. If one of the main goals was to neutralize Paige's offense, then it made sense to stay with what was working on that front. But after the initial minutes when UNC looked out of sorts on offense, they really started to score at an alarming rate. They were driving the ball and their bigs were scoring pretty easily over Okafor. Some of those shots were contested, but Meeks and Johnson were racking up a lot of point blank baskets. So, it would be hard for me to say that Duke's defense was "working", but Cook was obviously keeping Paige from going off, which turned out to be a key to Duke's win... so, I guess I'm happy it worked out. Just surprised (especially after Jah was limping around out there) that we didn't see more of the zone.

Also possible that the coaches saw something during scouting UNC that convinced them to stick with the man defense...

Zone would have given Carolina a better chance at offensive rebounds, which is their primary strength. I assume we did not zone for that reason, primarily.

flyingdutchdevil
02-19-2015, 02:28 PM
Zone would have given Carolina a better chance at offensive rebounds, which is their primary strength. I assume we did not zone for that reason, primarily.

I would argue that we are getting better at man-to-man as well. Coach K will use a zone when necessary but, if there is a choice, we know he's going man-to-man.

Zone is a good tool to have, but man-to-man is great at preventing 3pt shots and getting defensive rebounds. It's not great at preventing gimmies to a long UNC team in the post, however.

Lar77
02-19-2015, 02:30 PM
I continue not to understand this narrative. The 2001 team, for example, played at a very fast pace all the time and basically had a six man rotation. I could give many more examples and they all show the same thing: Duke rarely has more than 7 players playing 10+ minutes in non-blowouts. This Duke team has 8 available players, which by my count is more than 7.

I can see the complaint that with only 8 players it's harder to practice, or that we're possibly more vulnerable to injury or foul trouble, but it simply isn't true that we're more vulnerable to "deep team[s] that want to play at a fast pace" than we have been in any other season.



For the season, UNC on average rebounds 41.9% of its own misses. Against Duke, they only rebounded 36.5% of their misses. I'm not saying Duke's defensive rebounding was great or anything, but at least we did better than the average UNC opponent, which ought to count for something.



I started the game with a Flying Dog Old Scratch amber lager. Then I switched to other beers. With 3 or 4 minutes left in regulation, I decided I needed to switch back to the Old Scratch.

You're welcome.

Your first two points are spot on. I am tired of broadcasters making a big deal of "only 8 scholarship players." Might have an effect in practice, but has not appeared to have an effect in the game. Yes, guys get winded, but few teams use all ten guys in meaningful situations. I wonder if some coaches (K seems to) have figured out that the clock checks in the last couple of minutes will happen and will give their guys a quick break or two.

UNC this season has been very good on offensive rebounds as your stats suggest. They set up so that the bigs can tap out about 10 feet to the others who pull in the tap rather than have the bigs try to grab. They do the same thing on the defensive end to trigger their breaks.

Given those two points, I'll have to try Old Scratch.

Tyus' competitive focus is amazing. He shifts into another gear and takes the team with him.

Kudos to Quinn for limiting the one guy on UNC that could beat us to 5 points.