PDA

View Full Version : Bubba and Larry Fork it Over



PSurprise
02-16-2015, 01:35 PM
From damage to the Duke locker room.

Linky (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/north-carolina-paid-duke-over--27-000-for-spray-paint-damages-155056385.html)

I love the letter from Bubba regarding the vandalism to UNC prior to the basketball game. Is it more funny, or more sad?

roywhite
02-16-2015, 01:44 PM
From damage to the Duke locker room.

Linky (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/north-carolina-paid-duke-over--27-000-for-spray-paint-damages-155056385.html)

I love the letter from Bubba regarding the vandalism to UNC prior to the basketball game. Is it more funny, or more sad?

So Bubba and the Hat paid for this themselves?


Cunningham and Fedora split the costs with each sending personal checks for $13,585.22 to Duke in January while the UNC players completed community service.

Leaving the players off the hook for the damages -- is this a permissible benefit? Would a UNC student on a field trip who ran up damages at a hotel or at the site be able to skate on the bill? What are the chances that such a student's dept. head or trip chaperone would pick up the bill?

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-16-2015, 01:45 PM
I am blown away by the fact that they include the incident about DUKE being spray painted before a hoops game. Any normal person can tell the difference and understand that the two have nothing to do with each other. Cunningham comes off as a immature fool in all of this. Also Coach Cut not calling back was appropriate, why should he have to call back and accept an apology? Just leave it where it is and use it to your advantage next season.

Henderson
02-16-2015, 02:27 PM
Wait a minute here.

Fedora and Bubba paid the bill with personal checks? Now why would that be? Why wouldn't the university pay the bill?

Would we be reasonable to assume that UNC administration decided this was coach-sanctioned behavior and that, therefore, the university would not be responsible for the cost? Maybe even AD-sanctioned, since he paid too?

devilsadvocate85
02-16-2015, 03:30 PM
Wait a minute here.

Fedora and Bubba paid the bill with personal checks? Now why would that be? Why wouldn't the university pay the bill?

Would we be reasonable to assume that UNC administration decided this was coach-sanctioned behavior and that, therefore, the university would not be responsible for the cost? Maybe even AD-sanctioned, since he paid too?

Maybe this was their punishment for not doing a better job being responsible and controlling their "charges" when said incident was occurring? I jest; taking accountability for what happens under your watch is a foreign concept in the fairy tale land of CH.

Lar77
02-16-2015, 03:44 PM
Did the checks clear?

I kind of remember Cunningham and Fedora were in the locker room when this happened. Does this imply that they encouraged the actions?

hudlow
02-16-2015, 03:47 PM
They're making too much money...

TKG
02-16-2015, 03:50 PM
They're making too much money...

Bubba? Larry? Or the players?

NSDukeFan
02-16-2015, 04:15 PM
Fine print:

Not one of the guilty players will be able to choose the team meal for ALL of preseason AND they are EACH going to have to run an extra set of lines.
I think the fine print shows this is being taken very seriously.

hudlow
02-16-2015, 04:37 PM
Fine print:

I think the fine print shows this is being taken very seriously.

Well they are, after all, under investigation.
It's no time to coddle anyone.

Furniture
02-16-2015, 05:28 PM
Fine print:

I think the fine print shows this is being taken very seriously.

To be fair the team also had to do community service. At the time people on this board were going crazy about there being no punishment.
Anyway, if I was one of the Coaches (and I earned as much as they did) then I would probably pay the bill too.
I do think coach Cut should have called them back as well.
That's just me. What do I know?

Henderson
02-17-2015, 10:58 AM
Anyway, if I was one of the Coaches (and I earned as much as they did) then I would probably pay the bill too.


Why? Why did Fedora and Cunningham cut personal checks? Why didn't the university cut the check?

Just because they make a good salary? I don't buy that.

Because those in charge are personally responsible for the unauthorized acts of their charges? I don't buy that either. If a McDonald's employee goes nuts and takes a sledgehammer to cars in the parking lot, the company or franchisee is responsible financially, not the manager on duty. Unless the manager handed the employee a sledgehammer and said, "Go for it." Only then would the company insist that the manager pay.

So what happened internally at UNC-CH here? Did Fedora and Cunningham present the bill to the university? Did the university decide the coaches should pay personally? If so, why would that be?

If a coach and an AD demonstrate personal responsibility for acts of vandalism at an opponent's venue, are there any consequences?

If you owned a McDonald's franchise and a manager encouraged or facillitated the sledge-hammering of cars in your parking lot, what action would you take? What action would your oversight body insist upon?

I think we're missing a significant story here.

Why did Cunningham and Fedora have to write personal checks? Why not the university?

Who provided the spray paint, which was obviously packed in by someone before the game?

What did Fedora and Cunningham know about this pre-planned idea?

What discipline is appropriate if a coach and AD facillitate or participate in vandalizing an opponent's site with spray paint?

What are the precedents for a coach and AD to pay out their own pockets for the malicious acts of their players?

If someone cuts a personal check for this amount of money, isn't that an admission of direct culpability? If so, are there consequences at the university level?

Long post, but I still want to know:

Why did Fedora and Cunningham cut personal checks to pay for this damage?

uh_no
02-17-2015, 11:35 AM
Unless the manager handed the employee a sledgehammer and said, "Go for it." Only then would the company insist that the manager pay.


I think you hit the nail with the proverbial sledgehammer there.....

devildeac
02-17-2015, 11:38 AM
Why? Why did Fedora and Cunningham cut personal checks? Why didn't the university cut the check?

Just because they make a good salary? I don't buy that.

Because those in charge are personally responsible for the unauthorized acts of their charges? I don't buy that either. If a McDonald's employee goes nuts and takes a sledgehammer to cars in the parking lot, the company or franchisee is responsible financially, not the manager on duty. Unless the manager handed the employee a sledgehammer and said, "Go for it." Only then would the company insist that the manager pay.

So what happened internally at UNC-CH here? Did Fedora and Cunningham present the bill to the university? Did the university decide the coaches should pay personally? If so, why would that be?

If a coach and an AD demonstrate personal responsibility for acts of vandalism at an opponent's venue, are there any consequences?

If you owned a McDonald's franchise and a manager encouraged or facillitated the sledge-hammering of cars in your parking lot, what action would you take? What action would your oversight body insist upon?

I think we're missing a significant story here.

Why did Cunningham and Fedora have to write personal checks? Why not the university?

Who provided the spray paint, which was obviously packed in by someone before the game?

What did Fedora and Cunningham know about this pre-planned idea?

What discipline is appropriate if a coach and AD facillitate or participate in vandalizing an opponent's site with spray paint?

What are the precedents for a coach and AD to pay out their own pockets for the malicious acts of their players?

If someone cuts a personal check for this amount of money, isn't that an admission of direct culpability? If so, are there consequences at the university level?

Long post, but I still want to know:

Why did Fedora and Cunningham cut personal checks to pay for this damage?

When asked why, the unc coach and AD simply replied, "The Devil made me do it."

4764

Furniture
02-17-2015, 12:08 PM
Why? Why did Fedora and Cunningham cut personal checks? Why didn't the university cut the check?

Just because they make a good salary? I don't buy that.

Because those in charge are personally responsible for the unauthorized acts of their charges? I don't buy that either. If a McDonald's employee goes nuts and takes a sledgehammer to cars in the parking lot, the company or franchisee is responsible financially, not the manager on duty. Unless the manager handed the employee a sledgehammer and said, "Go for it." Only then would the company insist that the manager pay.

So what happened internally at UNC-CH here? Did Fedora and Cunningham present the bill to the university? Did the university decide the coaches should pay personally? If so, why would that be?

If a coach and an AD demonstrate personal responsibility for acts of vandalism at an opponent's venue, are there any consequences?

If you owned a McDonald's franchise and a manager encouraged or facillitated the sledge-hammering of cars in your parking lot, what action would you take? What action would your oversight body insist upon?

I think we're missing a significant story here.

Why did Cunningham and Fedora have to write personal checks? Why not the university?

Who provided the spray paint, which was obviously packed in by someone before the game?

What did Fedora and Cunningham know about this pre-planned idea?

What discipline is appropriate if a coach and AD facillitate or participate in vandalizing an opponent's site with spray paint?

What are the precedents for a coach and AD to pay out their own pockets for the malicious acts of their players?

If someone cuts a personal check for this amount of money, isn't that an admission of direct culpability? If so, are there consequences at the university level?

Long post, but I still want to know:

Why did Fedora and Cunningham cut personal checks to pay for this damage?

For whatever reason they also felt partly responsible. At 1.7 MUSD annual salary it's not a significant amount
For Fedora...
To be honest i think if they were there, especially being the adults among the group, then they should feel
responsible too.

Henderson
02-17-2015, 12:57 PM
For whatever reason they also felt partly responsible. At 1.7 MUSD annual salary it's not a significant amount
For Fedora...
To be honest i think if they were there, especially being the adults among the group, then they should feel
responsible too.

Well if they felt responsible and acted as if they were responsible, doesn't that mean they were responsible? And if a coach and AD are responsible for vandalism, shouldn't we hear something more than, "As coach (AD) I'm ultimately responsible."?

Personal checks are not the norm for "ultimately responsible" in some generic leadership way. Ultimately, the university is responsible. But the university did not (refused to?) pay the bill. That suggests to me some direct personal responsibility on the part of the AD and coach. I'd like someone to ask UNC what happened there.

I'm surprised and disappointed that news people are not following that part of the story.

Reilly
02-17-2015, 01:15 PM
Henderson, I cannot access it now, but I saw a .pdf of various documents -- maybe on the News & Observer site (I followed a link from The Devils Den, the Scout free Duke football message board). They were the documents that UNC released pursuant to an open records request by Keeley.

One shows a draft UNC email offering to donate the players' meal money to Duke as partial restitution.

The docs also contained angry emails from UNC alums questioning why University $$ should be used to pay for the players' malfeasance -- make the players pay, seemed to be the message.

To me, it seems UNC said "we'll pay for it" and that caused a, um, mud storm by UNC alums who did not want University or athletic $$ paying for the misdeeds of the UNC goofball players ... so then Bubba and Larry must've decided to pay, in order to pacify the angry alums, so no University $$ were used.

Henderson
02-17-2015, 01:26 PM
Henderson, I cannot access it now, but I saw a .pdf of various documents -- maybe on the News & Observer site (I followed a link from The Devils Den, the Scout free Duke football message board). They were the documents that UNC released pursuant to an open records request by Keeley.

One shows a draft UNC email offering to donate the players' meal money to Duke as partial restitution.

The docs also contained angry emails from UNC alums questioning why University $$ should be used to pay for the players' malfeasance -- make the players pay, seemed to be the message.

To me, it seems UNC said "we'll pay for it" and that caused a, um, mud storm by UNC alums who did not want University or athletic $$ paying for the misdeeds of the UNC goofball players ... so then Bubba and Larry must've decided to pay, in order to pacify the angry alums, so no University $$ were used.

Hey, thanks Reilly. Exactly what I was looking for, and that narrative seems plausible to me.

If the university's position was that the "goofball players" were responsible and should pay, are the personal payments by Fedora and Cunningham impermissible benefits? For example, a coach couldn't pay a court fine for a player, could he?

roywhite
02-17-2015, 01:45 PM
So Bubba and the Hat paid for this themselves?

Leaving the players off the hook for the damages -- is this a permissible benefit? Would a UNC student on a field trip who ran up damages at a hotel or at the site be able to skate on the bill? What are the chances that such a student's dept. head or trip chaperone would pick up the bill?


Hey, thanks Reilly. Exactly what I was looking for, and that narrative seems plausible to me.

If the university's position was that the "goofball players" were responsible and should pay, are the personal payments by Fedora and Cunningham impermissible benefits? For example, a coach couldn't pay a court fine for a player, could he?

Yeah, that was my question upstream also. That would seem like a possible NCAA violation, though apparently the NCAA is mute regarding UNC violations?

CLT Devil
02-17-2015, 01:52 PM
I, too, questioned why there would be enough spray paint brought to Wally Wade by an opposing team but then remembered that it's customary to paint the Victory Bell in the winning team's colors immediately after the game as that's when the winning team takes possession of it if they don't already have it from the previous year.

To me it seemed very odd that Larry and Bubba had to fork it over. We know why the spray paint was there but I'd think a manager or whomever would keep tight wraps on it. In light of the many places that were defaced - the visiting locker room carpet and walls, three panels of the part of the stadium where the track (previously) meets the bleachers and also on the practice field I find it very hard to believe that nobody from the UNC staff saw any of this happening and tried to stop it. If the coaches weren't in the locker room, on the field or on the practice field which is where the opposing team enter the field of play from, then where were they?

As far as the D U K E painted on the UNC campus, the fact that Larry brought that up seems like reason enough for Coach Cut to not call him back to accept the apology. I would wager that it was not a Duke Basketball player who painted their campus before the game last year, so why would that incident be brought up? Yes, fans are capable of ridiculous stuff when it comes to a rivalry but one incident is likely a single person without any official affiliation to the Basketball program and the other is after a game and the places which were defaced were only open to the opposing players and coaching staff.

Once again the mantra of the new 'Carolina Way' is "everyone else is doing it, we just happened to get caught" instead of owning up to their actions and accepting the consequences.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-17-2015, 01:54 PM
I, too, questioned why there would be enough spray paint brought to Wally Wade by an opposing team but then remembered that it's customary to paint the Victory Bell in the winning team's colors immediately after the game as that's when the winning team takes possession of it if they don't already have it from the previous year.

To me it seemed very odd that Larry and Bubba had to fork it over. We know why the spray paint was there but I'd think a manager or whomever would keep tight wraps on it. In light of the many places that were defaced - the visiting locker room carpet and walls, three panels of the part of the stadium where the track (previously) meets the bleachers and also on the practice field I find it very hard to believe that nobody from the UNC staff saw any of this happening and tried to stop it. If the coaches weren't in the locker room, on the field or on the practice field which is where the opposing team enter the field of play from, then where were they?

As far as the D U K E painted on the UNC campus, the fact that Larry brought that up seems like reason enough for Coach Cut to not call him back to accept the apology. I would wager that it was not a Duke Basketball player who painted their campus before the game last year, so why would that incident be brought up? Yes, fans are capable of ridiculous stuff when it comes to a rivalry but one incident is likely a single person without any official affiliation to the Basketball program and the other is after a game and the places which were defaced were only open to the opposing players and coaching staff.

Once again the mantra of the new 'Carolina Way' is "everyone else is doing it, we just happened to get caught" instead of owning up to their actions and accepting the consequences.


Nailed it

Furniture
02-17-2015, 09:49 PM
Once again the mantra of the new 'Carolina Way' is "everyone else is doing it, we just happened to get caught" instead of owning up to their actions and accepting the consequences.

Isnt Carolina punishing the players with community service and them doing it accepting the consequences?

orrnot
02-18-2015, 12:05 AM
it's customary to paint the Victory Bell in the winning team's colors immediately after the game as that's when the winning team takes possession of it if they don't already have it from the previous year.

I think this is a "customary" practice that has occurred exactly three times, with UNC painting twice and Duke once. All three paint jobs have occurred at Duke, and all three have left paint on the track and likely other inappropriate places. Coach Cutcliffe was not happy with the overspray in 2012 and I think it's fair to say he wasn't happy about 2014 either. I certainly hope that he and Coach Fedora will talk enough to be sure the spray painting never happens again.

sagegrouse
02-18-2015, 08:35 AM
Why? Why did Fedora and Cunningham cut personal checks? Why didn't the university cut the check?

Just because they make a good salary? I don't buy that.

Because those in charge are personally responsible for the unauthorized acts of their charges? I don't buy that either. If a McDonald's employee goes nuts and takes a sledgehammer to cars in the parking lot, the company or franchisee is responsible financially, not the manager on duty. Unless the manager handed the employee a sledgehammer and said, "Go for it." Only then would the company insist that the manager pay.

So what happened internally at UNC-CH here? Did Fedora and Cunningham present the bill to the university? Did the university decide the coaches should pay personally? If so, why would that be?

If a coach and an AD demonstrate personal responsibility for acts of vandalism at an opponent's venue, are there any consequences?

If you owned a McDonald's franchise and a manager encouraged or facillitated the sledge-hammering of cars in your parking lot, what action would you take? What action would your oversight body insist upon?

I think we're missing a significant story here.

Why did Cunningham and Fedora have to write personal checks? Why not the university?

Who provided the spray paint, which was obviously packed in by someone before the game?

What did Fedora and Cunningham know about this pre-planned idea?

What discipline is appropriate if a coach and AD facillitate or participate in vandalizing an opponent's site with spray paint?

What are the precedents for a coach and AD to pay out their own pockets for the malicious acts of their players?

If someone cuts a personal check for this amount of money, isn't that an admission of direct culpability? If so, are there consequences at the university level?

Long post, but I still want to know:

Why did Fedora and Cunningham cut personal checks to pay for this damage?

How's this? They paid for it to get the matter settled. They are seeking recompensation from the university or the athletic department, which will take some time and a lot of paperwork. My guess.

camion
02-18-2015, 09:26 AM
How's this? They paid for it to get the matter settled. They are seeking recompensation from the university or the athletic department, which will take some time and a lot of paperwork. My guess.

If that is the scenario then the PR folks can say that the damages were not paid with University funds. (Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain handing out the reimbursement.)

sagegrouse
02-18-2015, 10:53 AM
If that is the scenario then the PR folks can say that the damages were not paid with University funds. (Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain handing out the reimbursement.)

Or, Bubba and Larry shake a donor tree or two.

BD80
02-18-2015, 11:17 AM
Or, Bubba and Larry shake a donor tree or two.

A few of the boosters probably chipped in extra for the next time, and additional spray paint.