MBB: Duke at Syracuse (Sat Feb 14, 6 pm ET, ESPN) Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[Troublemaker]

Let's get this ball rolling.

Last season we had some quality Syracuse fans posting here for our games against them. Hopefully they return.

Will be a little bit awkward to see Sheed's buzzer-beater amid the reminder highlights ESPN will show of last season's great game between Duke and Syracuse in the Carrier Dome.

For this year's Duke team, if we're ever going to show consistent dominance in the regular season, it will probably begin now. We've had extra days this week to re-charge and prepare, and Duke's schedule from here on out follows Coach K's preferred old-school Sat / Wed model. No more 1-day turnarounds. No more 3 games in 6 days.

Let's Go Duke!

[Troublemaker]

One huge point of interest in this game will be the battle between the ACC's top two centers, Okafor and Rakeem Christmas.

Christmas actually currently holds the edge in counting stats (points, rebounds, blocks): http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/conferences/statistics/_/id/2/acc-conference

Christmas has had a wonderful season, upping his scoring from 5.8 ppg last season to 18.0 ppg this season. And he continues to protect the basket along the backline of Syracuse's zone by averaging 2.4 blocks a game.

[uh_no]

syracuse isn't a good team this year. duke rolls.

Plus we'll give SU a taste of their own zone medicine :)

[gep]

syracuse isn't a good team this year. duke rolls.

Plus we'll give SU a taste of their own zone medicine :)


This will be funny... can't wait :cool:

[MCFinARL]

syracuse isn't a good team this year. duke rolls.

Plus we'll give SU a taste of their own zone medicine :)

Granting your first sentence, your second may not necessarily follow. Syracuse fans are pretty loyal and will likely turn out in great numbers and full voice to see their team play Duke. The Carrier Dome is an unusual playing environment. The Christmas-Okafor matchup, as already noted, is an interesting one. And Gbinije has been playing well recently and will likely be especially motivated to demonstrate his worth to his former coach. I am optimistic (though not certain) about a Duke win, but I am not counting on an easy win.

[NashvilleDevil]

syracuse isn't a good team this year. duke rolls.

Why do posters insist on saying this before almost every game?

[Seattle Hoo]

Syracuse still manages to keep everything close. Boeheim's system is like Bennett's in that it slows down the other team and keeps margins tight, which always gives Syracuse a chance to steal the game at the end. But the talent just isn't there this year. Syracuse is, like last year when the schedule toughened late, going to come crashing down in the conference standings, and Duke is going to start it off. If you can play even half as well in the last five minutes as you did at the JPJ, you will win by 8+.

I just ask you, please, keep the second or third seed. It's important for my preferred season narrative.

[weezie]

How much snow is predicted for up there? Hope the team travel isn't impacted.

I really do feel very sorry for all you up northers, yikes.

[Duke3517]

Does their program even care right now? Outside of possible NBA stock I don't see the motivation.

[Rich]

Does their program even care right now? Outside of possible NBA stock I don't see the motivation.

Well, as someone mentioned in a different thread, the Duke game is now Cuse's ACC and national championship game. I think bragging rights are a pretty big motivator, especially in front of 80,000 fans. I don't think this will be an easy game by any stretch.

[Monmouth77]

Granting your first sentence, your second may not necessarily follow. Syracuse fans are pretty loyal and will likely turn out in great numbers and full voice to see their team play Duke. The Carrier Dome is an unusual playing environment. The Christmas-Okafor matchup, as already noted, is an interesting one. And Gbinije has been playing well recently and will likely be especially motivated to demonstrate his worth to his former coach. I am optimistic (though not certain) about a Duke win, but I am not counting on an easy win.

In addition to all of those factors, Syracuse will be playing with nothing to lose. So we can expect a loose, energized team in front of a Saturday night crowd playing like there is no tomorrow (because there isn't one).

What I'll be looking for is (1) whether we can match Syracuse's energy; and (2) whether we can keep and extend the lead once we make a run. The second issue is where we fell down against Florida State and Notre Dame on the road. We need to stay in attack mode until we put them away. I want to see us push the ball in transition as much as possible to beat their zone down the court, and attack the rim even in the half court.

Another thing to look for on offense is whether we use Winslow in the middle of the 2-3 zone, and how he performs there. Last year Hood and Parker both had some success hitting jumpers from the middle of the zone and attacking the basket from that space as well. Winslow would seem to be the guy to use in that spot (though he doesn't really shoot the midrange jumper). An interesting idea (though it's one I doubt we'll see) is putting Jahlil in the middle of the paint and using Jefferson in the low post. Jah is a great passer and could really distribute the ball from that spot -- sort of like how Georgetown uses its bigs (think Greg Monroe in the pivot spot).

On defense, I think we could very well continue to see mostly the aggressive man-to-man we played against ND and to some extent against FSU. Syracuse does not have the outside shooting it had a year ago, but neither does it have guards that can beat us consistently off the dribble. And we might be able to pressure them into mistakes. These guys turn the ball over a little bit.

[AceDukie77]

Despite the current temp of - 4 degrees the Carrier Dome is sold out again for us. It will be full with 35,446 rabid SU fans. It won't be easy tomorrow night....

[uh_no]

Why do posters insist on saying this before almost every game?

because they realize something posted on a message board has literally no effect on the outcome of the game?

Further, it's true.

Syracuse's ACC wins:
VT...2 points
GT...1 point
wake...OT
BC...8 points
VT...2 points
BC...14 points

their best win is against Iowa (3 points) back in november....and they've barely kept up with some VERY mediocre ACC teams, and are a couple shots away from being 3-8 in the ACC....but they own BC....so there's that?

Might they give duke a game? yeah. depends on if duke's defense shows up. We didn't have issues playing in the carrier dome last year (aside from the fundamental problems that plagued the team all year anyway), and I don't expect any this year. I do, however, expect syracuse to go no better than 2-4 over their next 6.

[Monmouth77]

because they realize something posted on a message board has literally no effect on the outcome of the game?

Further, it's true.

Syracuse's ACC wins:
VT...2 points
GT...1 point
wake...OT
BC...8 points
VT...2 points
BC...14 points

their best win is against Iowa (3 points) back in november....and they've barely kept up with some VERY mediocre ACC teams, and are a couple shots away from being 3-8 in the ACC....but they own BC....so there's that?

Might they give duke a game? yeah. depends on if duke's defense shows up. We didn't have issues playing in the carrier dome last year (aside from the fundamental problems that plagued the team all year anyway), and I don't expect any this year. I do, however, expect syracuse to go no better than 2-4 over their next 6.

Of course the message board does not influence the game. I am with you there.

But we've played tough games against some teams that aren't much better (if at all) than Syracuse.

And by the way, your run down of 'Cuse's wins left out their 13 point win over FSU who just gave Duke a pretty good game no?

Relatedly, you could compile a very similar looking list for FSU's wins:

Clemson +4
Va Tech +11, +8
Miami +1
Wake +6 in OT

[Saratoga2]

One huge point of interest in this game will be the battle between the ACC's top two centers, Okafor and Rakeem Christmas.

Christmas actually currently holds the edge in counting stats (points, rebounds, blocks): http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/conferences/statistics/_/id/2/acc-conference

Christmas has had a wonderful season, upping his scoring from 5.8 ppg last season to 18.0 ppg this season. And he continues to protect the basket along the backline of Syracuse's zone by averaging 2.4 blocks a game.

Christmas likes to get inside and use his hook with either hand. At this point in his development, his defense is superior to Jahlil's. Could he get Jahlil into foul trouble? Will we go to a zone to slow him down? Will their zone be effective at minimizing Jahlil's offensive contribution inside? I note that Syracuse gets back on defense very well so we will have to work for our shots. Hope our guys are hitting from outside as our major advantage should be with our guards. Anyone thinking this is an easy game for us is a little delusional. We are on the road, facing a competitive team with a zone better than any other we have seen so far this year. They do have weaknesses and it is up to our coaches to find ways to exploit them.

[uh_no]

Of course the message board does not influence the game. I am with you there.

But we've played tough games against some teams that aren't much better (if at all) than Syracuse.

And by the way, your run down of 'Cuse's wins left out their 13 point win over FSU who just gave Duke a pretty good game no?

Relatedly, you could compile a very similar looking list for FSU's wins:

Clemson +4
Va Tech +11, +8
Miami +1
Wake +6 in OT

you're right! oops.

[TruBlu]

We need to squeeze the Orange to a pulp like clockwork until they have no juice left, leaving their agents a seed of doubt.

Okay, I'm done here, with apologies to all.

[gumbomoop]

We need to squeeze the Orange to a pulp like clockwork until they have no juice left, leaving their agents a seed of doubt.

Okay, I'm done here, with apologies to all.

Did the Crazies have signs reading "Clock the Orange" for Boeheim's visit last season? A chant?

[devildeac]

We need to squeeze the Orange to a pulp like clockwork until they have no juice left, leaving their agents a seed of doubt.

Okay, I'm done here, with apologies to all.

I find this line of thinking very a-peeling:o.

Wondering now if moonpie will post like he did pre-f$u and wonder which, if any/all, scenarios will apply such as who'll have a "career" game, if SU will shoot "lights out" on 3s (he was right about both of these, IIRC), how/if we'll get out-rebounded and one other stat I can't recall.

[ArtVandelay]

On paper, Syracuse's resume doesn't look great, and they currently sit at a lackluster #61 in the KenPom ratings, which includes a pretty bad 105 on offense and a comparatively better 57 on defense (by comparison, we are at 60 on D). Based on what little I have seen, it seems like they don't have much offensive firepower this season. I suspect their D could be effective in disrupting Jah, particularly since Christmas is probably one of the better centers he'll face this year. They will force us to beat them with the 3 ball, which is probably their (and anyone else's, really) best strategy against us this year. If the shots are falling, I think it will be difficult for Cuse to score with us. If they're not, it could be a tough battle. Of course, standard caveats apply here that anything can happen in one game.

[MChambers]

Syracuse's tempo, according to KenPom, is 81st in the country. I believe Syracuse had one of the slower tempos last year. I'm surprised to see such a big change.

[Monmouth77]

Syracuse's tempo, according to KenPom, is 81st in the country. I believe Syracuse had one of the slower tempos last year. I'm surprised to see such a big change.

That is interesting, and might speak at least in part to their relatively weaker defense. When the Syracuse zone is working, the other team has mud in their shoes, and has to use up big chunks of the shot clock to get a good shot. When it breaks down as much as it has this year, the pace quickens.

I don't think they want to run with Duke.

By the way, for anyone who may doubt whether we are in for a peak Carrier Dome atmosphere, I just ran into a colleague at the gym whose daughter goes to 'Cuse and who sent him a T-shirt that the whole crowd will be wearing. He was wearing it -- a bright Orange "Beat Duke" shirt.

I actually think our guys like the big game atmosphere. I worry more about games when we have not had as much reason to match our opponent's energy. But the Carrier Dome will be rockin'

[Seattle Hoo]

I actually think our guys like the big game atmosphere. I worry more about games when we have not had as much reason to match our opponent's energy. But the Carrier Dome will be rockin'

The chance to play in the Carrier Dome on a regular basis is probably the best part of adding Syracuse to the league. It's a great stage and good prep for a Final Four-type atmosphere.

Sorry, fellas, I'll be rooting for Syracuse tomorrow. No offense, and I'm sure you're all Wake fans for a day.

[superdave]

Christmas likes to get inside and use his hook with either hand. At this point in his development, his defense is superior to Jahlil's. Could he get Jahlil into foul trouble? Will we go to a zone to slow him down? Will their zone be effective at minimizing Jahlil's offensive contribution inside? I note that Syracuse gets back on defense very well so we will have to work for our shots. Hope our guys are hitting from outside as our major advantage should be with our guards. Anyone thinking this is an easy game for us is a little delusional. We are on the road, facing a competitive team with a zone better than any other we have seen so far this year. They do have weaknesses and it is up to our coaches to find ways to exploit them.

I think it will be important for our front court to find gaps in the SU zone in order for us to swing the ball to get open looks. Jahlil could screw up their defensive coverage by creating space for himself and making good, quick passes. But I think the most important thing for Duke is for Winslow to attack the rim. That will have all of Syracuse second guessing their defensive assignments.

[The Gordog]

The chance to play in the Carrier Dome on a regular basis is probably the best part of adding Syracuse to the league. It's a great stage and good prep for a Final Four-type atmosphere.

Sorry, fellas, I'll be rooting for Syracuse tomorrow. No offense, and I'm sure you're all Wake fans for a day.

Heck, I'll root for Wake most days. My ranking of ACC schools rooting preference is usually:

1. Duke
2. BC - wife went there for Law School.
3. UVA - my adopted state and my nephew is an first year there.
4. State - Pack Pride has done fantastic work of late!
5. Wake - in state school similar to Duke
6. GA Tech - best friend's brother went there
7. VA Tech - lots of friends at my office went there
8. Notre Dame - just for Brey
9. 'Cuse, The U, Cemsum, Free Shoes U, L'ville, Pitt - don't like any of them.

Every other team in Div. I, II or III

1,000,000,000. UK
1,000,000,001. UNC

But I'll bump Wake above UVA this time just because I want Duke to win the regular season, meaningless and unlikely though it is.

[burnspbesq]

There is actually a post up at TNIAAM debating the pros and cons of rushing the court.

That kind of hubris needs to be punished. Unmercifully.

[peterjswift]

By the way, for anyone who may doubt whether we are in for a peak Carrier Dome atmosphere, I just ran into a colleague at the gym whose daughter goes to 'Cuse and who sent him a T-shirt that the whole crowd will be wearing. He was wearing it -- a bright Orange "Beat Duke" shirt.


The Syracuse fans wore the same shirts last year, and I remember several people noting: "It must be something to be a team so good the opponent's fans put your team name on their chest instead of their own." Thinking that way makes me never want to wear a "Beat UNC" or "GTHC" shirt.

Last year I watched the Syracuse vs Duke games in both a hospital as well as in Hope Lodge in Hershey with my father, who was undergoing chemo treatments for Leukemia (despite all odds, he beat it and has been cancer free for nearly a year now). He doesn't particularly care for basketball...and at the time wasn't really up for anything, but both games he got drawn in and actively watched and commented. He especially loved Boeheim's technical in Cameron. Despite the circumstances, it was really enjoyable spending time with him and watching the rare game with him. Duke vs. Syracuse was an instant rivalry already, but now they're really cool memories for me outside of basketball as well.

[Dukehky]

We are a terrible match up for Syracuse.

Cooney is their only perimeter threat and while Quinn Cook's defense is much maligned, I think he is a very good defensive player, especially off the ball, which is where Cooney operates.

Gbinije/Joseph at the point, good luck with that. Tyus may have trouble staying in front of quick guards, but neither of those guys is particularly quick. Also, with a bigger guy like Mike G, Tyus has shown to be very thievish. Justise will get Gbinije. I like Justise in that one on both ends of the floor.

Robertson is a worse version of Amile.

Christmas is a really good player, but he is not a brutish defender that Jah has had trouble with in the past (Cliff Alexander played him really well in HS, but Jah is much more physically mature now). I would not guess that Jah is going to get his shot blocked a single time by Christmas. He is going to use that big rear end and push Christmas wherever Jah wants him to go. Refs, this is not an offensive foul, just in case you're reading.

In terms of stopping Christmas, I think that with 5 days between games, we may see a little double teaming by the devils.

That doesn't include anything about our bench, which may not score very much, is at least extremely scrappy defensively.

If we lose, it will be because we played like dog crap.

FSU has physically imposing players who, when allowed to play physical can manhandle a team into a close game. Syracuse has nothing like this. They don't have a size/strength advantage, a skill advantage, or have the advantage of having like 5 seniors who've played together forever. Plus they are a big name school who Duke lost to at their place last year. I would take Duke plus the spread in this matchup (6.5, I'd take it if it was 10).

[DukieInBrasil]

i read on DBR that one can purchase the remainder of the season from a Duke based site for $4.99. Is this true? and if so, what site is that?
thanks in advance!

[cptnflash]

Given their self-imposed post-season ban (aka, shameless attempt to manipulate the NCAA because of an excellent 2015 recruiting class), this is pretty much the last game on Syracuse's schedule that they (or anyone else) will care about. Plus the citizens of upstate New York have been buried under even-more-absurd-than-usual amounts of snow for the past 3 months, so this is their first chance in a long time to do something fun. I think this game will be much tougher than the data (which have us as a moderate favorite) would suggest.

[ncexnyc]

Does their program even care right now? Outside of possible NBA stock I don't see the motivation.
If you've ever played competitive sports, no matter what level, you wouldn't need to ask.

[dalmatians98]

For those wondering about the weather in Syracuse tomorrow

http://www.weather.com/storms/winter/news/winter-storm-neptune-blizzard-boston-snow-new-england?cm_ven=Facebook_TheWeatherChannel_Weather_ JBa_Article_No_3_20150213

[Kedsy]

i read on DBR that one can purchase the remainder of the season from a Duke based site for $4.99. Is this true? and if so, what site is that?
thanks in advance!

I believe the site they were talking about was BDN+ (http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200), but I have no idea if you can really get the rest of the season for $4.99 or not.

[Kedsy]

In terms of stopping Christmas, I think that with 5 days between games, we may see a little double teaming by the devils.

If the Grinch couldn't do it, I'm not sure the Devils can.

Also, I think we'd have a better chance with Christmas if we had twelve days. I mean, turtle doves and golden rings are good, but without the lords a-leaping and the maids a-milking, we'd be at a distinct disadvantage.

[Bob Green]

Duke is currently favored by seven points. The over/under has not yet been posted. Okafor has experienced 1st half foul trouble in recent games so with today's match-up against talented and experienced Rakeem Christmas there is a good chance Plumlee will see significant playing time. He played 11 minutes against Notre Dame and 10 against Florida State. Hopefully Plumlee is up to the task of defending Christmas. Better yet, hopefully Christmas is the player in foul trouble.

[Saratoga2]

Duke is currently favored by seven points. The over/under has not yet been posted. Okafor has experienced 1st half foul trouble in recent games so with today's match-up against talented and experienced Rakeem Christmas there is a good chance Plumlee will see significant playing time. He played 11 minutes against Notre Dame and 10 against Florida State. Hopefully Plumlee is up to the task of defending Christmas. Better yet, hopefully Christmas is the player in foul trouble.

I agree. A reasonable strategy for SU is to get the ball to Christmas and have him attempt to draw fouls on Jahlil. He is good around the basket and has a hook shot that is difficult to stop. We may wind up zoning against Syracuse and using Plumlee inside to keep the fouls down on Jahlil.

[Olympic Fan]

I should point out how important this game is for Duke when it comes to ACC Tournament seeding -- specifically the chances of getting a bye into Thursday's quarterfinals.

Right now, Virginia has one ACC loss and a two-game lead in the loss column on four teams with three losses (Duke, Notre Dame, UNC and Louisville).

Syracuse is sixth at 7-4 ... so if Duke loses in the Dome, we would drop into a fifth place tie with the 'Cuse at 8-4. And of the four teams that would be ahead of us, the only one we get to play and maybe beat is UNC (which we play twice).

Win and we are still essentially tied for second place and since we have the edge in tiebreakers against Virginia, Notre Dame and Louisville, we'd be in pretty good shape.

Winning or at least sharing the regular season title is a long shot. Virginia would have to lose twice (while Duke finishes without another loss). Looking at their schedule two more losses look like a longshot: although they do finish at Syracuse and at Louisville. It will be the last home game for the 'Cuse. So maybe possible.

But if we lose one more, I think that kills it -- no way the Cavs lose at home to Wake, Pitt, FSU or VPI. The only other road game is at Wake. So 15-3 is the "worst" UVa can finish. Right now, it's the best Duke can finish.

[Pghdukie]

Any idea who the announcing team is ?

[-jk]

DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

[gumbomoop]

If we lose, it will be because we played like dog crap.

Not too far from an accurate description of our play so far, especially the confused D. Happy to see Marshall attacking. Amile's unwillingness to do so is perplexing, maddening.

[duketaylor]

Bilas, Shannon Spake and Dan. Michael G killing us.

[jdk]

Gbinije!!!!1

Oh wait...

[gurufrisbee]

Giving up a ridiculous high number of three's is becoming all too familiar.

So is coming to the Carrier Dome and getting beaten up ridiculously with no calls on the Orange ever.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Our lack of defensive intensity and effort on the outside is really troubling. So far, very little commitment to excellence. Hope we stop sleepwalking.

[arnie]

Not too far from an accurate description of our play so far, especially the confused D. Happy to see Marshall attacking. Amile's unwillingness to do so is perplexing, maddening.
They are so much quicker to the ball. I have always liked silent G, but this is insane.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Winslow effective in the middle. Nice adjustment.

[jipops]

Almost every made 3 by Cuse has been uncontested.

[Sixthman]

Our lack of defensive intensity and effort on the outside is really troubling. So far, very little commitment to excellence. Hope we stop sleepwalking.

Very physical game and, so far, Okafor did not get the memo.

[Atldukie79]

Every time we go under a screen, G kills us

[gumbomoop]

Winslow effective in the middle. Nice adjustment.

For this game, Amile should only rest Winslow briefly. Ditto for Marshall resting Jahlil. Winslow has to be in the middle of that zone. He can and will, I hope, attack it. Amile, nope.

[dukelifer]

Gbinije!!!!1

Oh wait...

Gbinije going Bootsie- never fails

[DUKIE V(A)]

Keep forcing guys not named gbinije and cooney to shoot!! Nice adjustment so far.

[FerryFor50]

Gbinijie has been playing well the past few games.

Oh, what could have "Gbinijie." :)

Beautiful block by Winslow just then.

[FerryFor50]

Psst... Hey Jay... Cook got all ball. That tends not to be a foul.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Psst... Hey Jay... Cook got all ball. That tends not to be a foul.

Yep. This is why so many of us have "issues" with Bilas.

[Sixthman]

Fouls three and four on okafor were jokes

[FerryFor50]

Yep. This is why so many of us have "issues" with Bilas.

Jay said Cook "tackled" Cooney. He had a hand on Cooney's waist. And after getting all ball, he grabbed him.

That wouldn't have even been pass interference in football.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Jay said Cook "tackled" Cooney. He had a hand on Cooney's waist. And after getting all ball, he grabbed him.

That wouldn't have even been pass interference in football.

Meanwhile Winslow is clearly fouled but gets no whistle.

[gurufrisbee]

Can someone from Syracuse confirm the Carrier Dome rules?

If the Orange have two guys hammer you to the ground, it's no call

If the Orange on offense lower their shoulder and go straight into a guy who is straight up, that's a foul on them.

I've got it correct, right? All the evidence suggests I do.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Jay channeling his inner-Billy Packer at the moment.