MBB: Duke 73, Florida St 70 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[weezie]

Easy peesy!

[DukeDevil]

Glad they kept their heads to close it out. Quinn my MOTM for his solid play.

I am hereby placing a formal request for a ban on Jason Evans ever being allowed to mention an opposing team's poor 3 point shooting prior to a game in the podcast.

[NashvilleDevil]

To quote Belichick, "We're on to Syracuse."

[KandG]

So much late game fail on defense for Duke. So much fail from both teams in the final seconds execution-wise (Matt Jones forgetting the time left on the shot clock, Duke fouling too soon up 3, FSU going for a missed FT too soon down 2, etc etc).

But talented young team survives and manages an ACC win on the road. Survive and advance, next play, rinse and repeat.

Thank goodness that game is over.

[richardjackson199]

My MOTM goes to the FSU crowd. Every time they chanted Overrated we responded, and that proved to be the difference.

[NancyCarol]

hard to watch. very hard to watch. good job Duke.

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

Hard game to watch, I cant think of many enjoyable moments where I thought wow Im really enjoying this game. Glad its over, now lets ice the guys down and go home.

[arnie]

Glad they kept their heads to close it out. Quinn my MOTM for his solid play.

I am hereby placing a formal request for a ban on Jason Evans every being allowed to mention an opposing team's poor 3 point shooting prior to a game in the podcast.

Quinn and Tyus seem to be the stars when we need them. They carried us while Amile and Matt were ineffective. I don't think either guard gets enough credit from media or us.

[gofurman]

Easy peesy!

Exactly why I titled the pre-game thread FSU scares me. We were 10pt favorites. Wn by 3. Money said it shoulda been easier. They can hurt you w that big east style and they play us tough in Tallahassee Good win by Duke

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Could have folded, but didn't.

I see a young team growing together and learning from their earlier mistakes(see Duke at ND).

It wasn't pretty, but road conference wins are still impressive nonetheless.

Overall, I'm pleased.

[dukelifer]

Survive and move on to the next game. Guards played great. Quinn played like a senior and led this young team that was likely a bit tired at the end. Good teams win ugly. This was a good game for the growth of this group. Also a much better effort from the free throw line- needed all of them. A bit of a break before another tough road game against the Cuse.

[TKG]

In the handshake line after the game Robbie Berwick said something to K and it prompted a response from Coach. I am not sure it was a pleasant exchange. Did anyone else notice it?

[gofurman]

Hard game to watch, I cant think of many enjoyable moments where I thought wow Im really enjoying this game. Glad its over, now lets ice the guys down and go home.

'Xactly. Man Ojo is a freak of nature in size

[FerryFor50]

Typical game against a Leonard Hamilton coached team. Physical Big East style.

Figured this would be a blood bath. Lots of uncalled contact. Lots of moving screens by their bigs.

Just glad they escaped with the win.

Tyus was the man of the match, but Quinn Cook dropped 26.

Winslow made some boneheaded passes and wasn't shooting well. Matt Jones wasn't shooting well either.

FSU hit 50% from 3. Two of those threes were well-contested shots wayyyy outside. I don't think the defense was bad as per eye test, but the results were FSU with 1.1 points per possession. That's an FSU team that's 160 in KenPom for offense. I still call "anomaly" but after a while, these things are more trends than outliers.

Outrebounded a bigger FSU team, so that's good. Also blocked more shots.

A win's a win.

[DavidBenAkiva]

That game just got more and more tense as it went along. Yeesh!

I was surprised we didn't try the two bigs with Okafor and Plumlee at least once. Also, I was very surprised we didn't play Plumlee much at all in the second half. I thought he provided a big spark to the team when Okafor got his second foul.

I really enjoyed watching Allen play in the first half. He had that nice head fake and stepped into a two-point shot. Also, his hustle getting back on D was important.

[BlueDster]

This may sound strange, but I really thought FSU's awful crowd was Duke's worst enemy tonight. They are so used to playing big time games on the road at this point that I think Duke had a hard time generating energy against a dead crowd, particularly at the beginning of the game and after we went on runs.

[weezie]

In the handshake line after the game Robbie Berwick said something to K and it prompted a response from Coach. I am not sure it was a pleasant exchange. Did anyone else notice it?

Ooo no but I hope someone tivoed.

[Troublemaker]

Re: the game being tough to watch, it was actually, for awhile, an awesome display of transition basketball by Duke. I was hugely entertained for awhile. But then, yeah, in the second half, FSU just jammed it down our throats with drives.

Great call, gofurman -- this was a tough one!

[KandG]

In the handshake line after the game Robbie Berwick said something to K and it prompted a response from Coach. I am not sure it was a pleasant exchange. Did anyone else notice it?

On the ESPN broadcast it looked like K stopped and smiled at him while responding. Was it really an unpleasant exchange? That said, I'm always surprised to see an extended exchange between K and an opposing player when it's not K that initiates it.

[60's Devil]

Quinn and Tyus seem to be the stars when we need them. They carried us while Amile and Matt were ineffective. I don't think either guard gets enough credit from media or us.

Matt looked pretty effective when he drew that charge which was a turning point.

[tendev]

In the handshake line after the game Robbie Berwick said something to K and it prompted a response from Coach. I am not sure it was a pleasant exchange. Did anyone else notice it?

My guess is that he was complaining about being fouled on the last play. I am not a lip reader but I played it back several times and it looked like he used the word foul. K turned back to him with a look like what did you just say and walked on. K did not seem pleased after that.

[NashvilleDevil]

So much late game fail on defense for Duke. So much fail from both teams in the final seconds execution-wise (Matt Jones forgetting the time left on the shot clock, Duke fouling too soon up 3, FSU going for a missed FT too soon down 2, etc etc).

But talented young team survives and manages an ACC win on the road. Survive and advance, next play, rinse and repeat.

Thank goodness that game is over.

If anything I thought Duke played the last 10 seconds just fine. FSU was hitting just about every 3 they threw up. Do not want to risk one of those deep ones going in. I also thought Duke did a great job getting Quinn the ball when the press was on. Only part Duke really failed at was Quinn missing one of the free throws.

[jv001]

In the handshake line after the game Robbie Berwick said something to K and it prompted a response from Coach. I am not sure it was a pleasant exchange. Did anyone else notice it?

I thought it was Coach K that spoke first to him and Coach was laughing when he said it. I thought it might have been something like, you about beat us tonight young man. GoDuke!

[91devil]

Pretty good showing for a quick-turnaround road trip. I thought our offense was solid, ex-the first six minutes. Defense was good ex-the last six minutes.

I think Marshall could have helped on defense when FSU was making their run from fourteen down. We kept getting beat on the high pick and roll, and Marshall defends that pretty well (long arms and he talks). I don't think he played at all in the second half, other than the last second.

You know what you are getting when you play FSU. Big and long, frenetic and inconsistent. Bookert is really good player.

[FerryFor50]

My guess is that he was complaining about being fouled on the last play. I am not a lip reader but I played it back several times and it looked like he used the word foul. K turned back to him with a look like what did you just say and walked on. K did not seem pleased after that.

What's funny is that even if he gets the foul call, he still was inside the arc. So, 2 FTs and a 1 point loss instead of a 3 point loss.

[grossbus]

" Matt Jones wasn't shooting well either"

That would imply he made something.



MP3 no run in 2nd half surprised me.

[Troublemaker]

Matt looked pretty effective when he drew that charge which was a turning point.

That was a great play by Matt, but he could've ended that game sooner by making some of his wide-open shots, including, I believe, a missed bunny after a drive.

It was really poor for him to not know the shotclock situation on that turnover, too.

Love Matt, but this was one of his weaker games.

[Atldukie79]

In the handshake line after the game Robbie Berwick said something to K and it prompted a response from Coach. I am not sure it was a pleasant exchange. Did anyone else notice it?

I saw it, but did not think there was any animus involved.

M Jones, Amile and Winslow had tough nights, though Winslow hit some foul shots.
Oak needs to learn how to challenge a driver when playing D without fouling. Frankly, his last 2 fouls were on drivers who threw themselves into Oak and tossed up hard shots...both times with success.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

In the handshake line after the game Robbie Berwick said something to K and it prompted a response from Coach. I am not sure it was a pleasant exchange. Did anyone else notice it?

I saw that too.

Whatever the kid said to K, coach definitely wasn't expecting it. He gave a quick retort that didn't appear overly warm.

Very strange.

[Duvall]

Doesn't take much to embolden the Matt Jones haters, huh?

[NashvilleDevil]

" Matt Jones wasn't shooting well either"

That would imply he made something.



MP3 no run in 2nd half surprised me.

Matt's worst shooting game in some time. We know that you're not fond of Matt's shooting game.

[FerryFor50]

Doesn't take much to embolden the Matt Jones haters, huh?

No kidding.

Matt was off on offense, sure. But so was Winslow, who was 1-6.

And Allen was 1-4, yet people are singing his praises.

I'm curious who told Amile not to shoot. He rarely looks for his offense. He was huge on O earlier in the season.

[Philsfan]

Survive and advance!

[FerryFor50]

Matt's worst shooting game in some time. We know that you're not fond of Matt's shooting game.

What's funny is he left out the Winslow portion of that quote. They both shot like garbage tonight. But they played decently on D.

[weezie]

I just want Amile's eye to be OK. It's the 2nd or third hit this year?

[Billy Dat]

That was a very bizarre game.

Let's start with the fact that we only had 2 points a full 6:30 into the game. The 8 point lead at the half felt a little unsteady because we scored those last 5 really late on that filthy drive by Tyus and Quinn's hoop and harm. Still, we got nice Marshall minutes with Jah on the bench in foul trouble and I was happy that the "non Jah" line-ups held the fort again.

When we pushed it out to 14 5 minutes into the second, with Jah on track, everything seemed OK with the world. I give their crowd credit because that's when they seemed to come to life. I think they felt like they had been jobbed on a few calls, which weren't obvious ones, but they started getting heated and boisterous. Then, we started missing some easy ones, and I felt like Tyus was over-passing a little when he had clear lanes to the rim. They cut it to 5 with 8 to go, Justise and Tyus nail those 3s and I assume we are in control again. But, they wouldn't go away. We were up 12 with 5 to go and 9 with 3 to go. It's still hard to fathom their near epic comeback - they converted a bunch of tough and 1s, we coughed it up a few times, they kept fighting...so it goes.

I really credit FSU for fighting the whole way because they looked terrible for most of the first half. Those Berwick 3s kind of got their juices flowing, Bookert was tough, Brandon, Smith, etc.

I don't think we played bad, we just didn't make the easy plays that could have kept the margin at 10+ during several stretches of the second half. The fact that they had the ball with a chance to tie twice in the final minute is shocking though. It would have been a shocking loss.

Quinn had 26! Huge game. Tyus 16, 12 ast and 6 boards. Our back court came to play. An ACC Road win is an ACC road win. Weird things happen on the road, especially in Tally. FSU 50% from 3 being one, us having 2 points in the first 6:30 another....weird. On to Cuse.

[burnspbesq]

Just another classic February road game in the ACC. Only thing missing was Jim Thacker.

[MCFinARL]

What's funny is he left out the Winslow portion of that quote. They both shot like garbage tonight. But they played decently on D.

Agreed. Honestly, both players had some good moments and some pretty bad moments--Matt's shot clock think-o, a couple of Justise's passes. But given the quick turnaround and how well each played against Notre Dame we might cut them a little slack for mixed results tonight.

Really, I don't think there is much to be gained from parsing the play in this game. Just take the win, be grateful, move on. We did what we had to do.

[jv001]

I thought that Justise played a very laid back game on the defensive end tonight. I don't know if it was because he had a poor shooting night or he was not ready to play defense. I'm not going to comment on anyone's shooting because players have off nights. But you have to bring it on defense every game, every play and I didn't see that from Justise tonight. GoDuke!

[HateCarolina]

Painful game to watch for sure, but also great experience for our young guys. I'll bet Okafor fouls like a man in the future. No basket and one, just two free throws. Matt Jones will always be aware of the shot clock and as others have said....bring on the Cuse.

My MOTM should probably be Quinn Cook for his play throughout the game, but Matt Jones' late game charge probably saved this one for us so he got my vote!!

[SCMatt33]

I guess 3 good defensive halves was too much for Duke so they went and gave FSU 46 in the second half. A lot will be said about the stallfense, but it was Duke defense that was the big issue that first kept FSU around early in the second and then let them make a run at it late. They were afraid to foul, which let the guys in the lane, and then trying to play soft on shooters just resulted in a bunch of and-1 opportunities. They did the same thing against ND in the second half but no one noticed because it was a 30-point game. I think it's also not a coincidence that the great defensive first half came with Okafor on the bench. As much as he's POY caliber on offense, Okafor is a plain bad defender, especially in man to man. He gets lost all the time on rotations which is why FSU got so many dunks in the middle of the half, and he's so afraid to foul that he is completely ineffective as a rim protector.

On that same note, I'm really surprised that Duke never went with the Okafor-Plumlee together lineup like they did with St. John's. FSU doesn't have a stretch-4 so it would have seemed a good time for it. I'm also surprised that we didn't see Plumlee's during the stallfense possessions. Duke clearly had no intention of going to Okafor on a post up, and would have been better served to have Plumlee's set screens and play defense.

I'd like to give a pass on a quick turnaround, but they'll have to do this three times in March/April if they want to win it all. You could also bring up travel, but FSU was in Blacksburg on Saturday, so they actually travel farther than Duke in the 48 hours prior to tip.

I do want to give some praise to Winslow who really started driving the ball better in the second half and got to the line. Had he done that in the stallfense possessions instead of twice passing against his momentum for bad turnovers, there might not have been so much consternation. He also did a great job on the intentional fouls at the end going in as soon as the FSU player started a dribble. You can't be shooting the ball if you're in the middle of a dribble. The last one especially, he stopped 25 ft out and was ready to let him shoot the runner if he gathered, but fouled as soon as he went for another dribble.

[FerryFor50]

Agreed. Honestly, both players had some good moments and some pretty bad moments--Matt's shot clock think-o, a couple of Justise's passes. But given the quick turnaround and how well each played against Notre Dame we might cut them a little slack for mixed results tonight.

Really, I don't think there is much to be gained from parsing the play in this game. Just take the win, be grateful, move on. We did what we had to do.

I don't totally blame Matt for the shot clock.

For one, Jones got fouled (uncalled) and it was a loose ball in the corner.

Two, three FSU players were converging on him and Cook was wide open.

Three, unless they have shot clocks all over the arena, it's real hard to see the shot clock deep in the corner.

He should have known it was close - he likely did given the urgency of the pass - but that was just an unfortunate series of events.

[Troublemaker]

I'd like to give a pass on a quick turnaround, but they'll have to do this three times in March/April if they want to win it all.

One difference though is that this was our 3rd game in 6 days. In the NCAAT, we'd play 2 in 3 days BUT with much more rest before the first game.

I did think fatigue played a factor in the second half.

[gcashwell]

I wanted to see MP3 in with okafor in the second half. This kind of brutal game would have been perfect for plumlee to get minutes. He thrives in high impact, low skill settings.

I really enjoy the toughness of this team. For the past three seasons, this team has been nearly guaranteed to fold in situations like this.

It looked like we went in to stall ball with about four minutes to go. I hate stall ball. It worked, sure, but I hate it.

[Neals384]

I was surprised we didn't try the two bigs with Okafor and Plumlee at least once. Also, I was very surprised we didn't play Plumlee much at all in the second half. I thought he provided a big spark to the team when Okafor got his second foul.


This. I hate to say it but Coach 1K almost blew it tonight. With Amile, Justise and Matt all fairly ineffective, we reallyt need to get the twin towers in there. Also, calling timeout after we just hit two threes in a row is sheer lunacy.

[cptnflash]

I'm generally of the view that there's no such thing as a bad road win in conference, regardless of the opponent. This game certainly tests the theory, but I'll stick with it. We did just enough to win, despite managing to give up 46 second half points to a generally poor FSU offence. Saturday will bring a marginally better opponent and a much better crowd, both of which will hopefully elevate our level of play.

[FerryFor50]

One difference thought is that this was our 3rd game in 6 days. In the NCAAT, we'd play 2 in 3 days BUT with much more rest beforehand.

I did think fatigue played a factor in the second half.

Hard to carry Ojo around all game.

Reminds me of this classic:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2igwohrh_s

[jv001]

A couple of things jump out at me looking at ESPN box score. Jahlil did not get a defensive rebound and Justise had 4 turnovers. The last one does not surprise me, as I was shouting at the tv for Justise to pass it to Tyus or Quinn. GoDuke!

[Duvall]

Also, calling timeout after we just hit two threes in a row is sheer lunacy.

Krzyzewski's been calling those kind of timeouts for years. I guess he'd be up around 1200 wins if he didn't.

[trinity92]

On the ESPN broadcast it looked like K stopped and smiled at him while responding. Was it really an unpleasant exchange? That said, I'm always surprised to see an extended exchange between K and an opposing player when it's not K that initiates it.

In slo mo, seemed like he said something along the lines of "one more ____." And from both their subsequent reactions, I'd wager k wasn't pleased.

Count me among those who would like Jah to foul like he means it. At his size, not only shouldn't you be able to finish through him, but you should be leery the next time you think about going to the rim. FSU was so physical with us, they truly deserved a hard message foul from MP3.

[Saratoga2]

A win on the road with a two day turnaround and against a big athletic team is an accomplishment. Our defense was good for the first half and perhaps we tired a bit in the second. They did hit some long threes while we went into a semi-slowdown toward the end and the offense went flat. Okafor was not being used offensively in the end, perhaps because of their big.

Marshall did play very well while in during the first half. I still don't like it when he goes out to help with a trap and then is away from the basket. I too thought we might as well use him in the second half near the end of game since we weren't using Okafor offensively anyway. Okafor also looked tired at the end.

Clearly we need to have Tyus and Quinn handle the ball as Justise is prone to make inadvisable passes when under pressure. Justise did have a good game overall and hit his free throws. Free throws in general were big in this game as with a lot of misses this might have been a loss.

Grayson made some good plays and I am glad to see he has been given a little more play. He can contribute and can give the guys a short break. He is a decent ball handler but is still inexperienced so I prefer if Tyus and Quinn do the majority of the handling.

I thought our guys fought hard throughout the game and it isn't realistic to criticize single errors as you could point out equal numbers of good plays by the same player.

I also thought we were getting hit a lot and didn't get the foul calls. As such that favored FSU as they generally play quite physically.

I would be interested in anyone who can suggest a more efficient way to handle the offense so we don't lose big leads toward the end of games.

[mapei]

Jahlil seemed to have a pretty quiet game. There was a stretch early in the second half when he made 3 or 4 in a row, but otherwise very few rebounds, blocks or buckets, and some untimely fouls. In some games, he's dominant, but in this one he was just another player IMHO. Meanwhile, Quinn and Tyus were phenomenal. Fantastic game from the guards. Amazing how the team has fared, especially the guards, without Rasheed.

[Billy Dat]

My MOTM should probably be Quinn Cook for his play throughout the game, but Matt Jones' late game charge probably saved this one for us so he got my vote!!

Laura Keeley ‏@laurakeeley 3m3 minutes ago
K came back into the locker room after the media had been let in (oops) to tell Matt Jones he had the play of the game with that charge

[Billy Dat]

Jahlil seemed to have a pretty quiet game. There was a stretch early in the second half when he made 3 or 4 in a row, but otherwise very few rebounds, blocks or buckets, and some untimely fouls. In some games, he's dominant, but in this one he was just another player IMHO. Meanwhile, Quinn and Tyus were phenomenal. Fantastic game from the guards. Amazing how the team has fared, especially the guards, without Rasheed.

Laura Keeley ‏@laurakeeley 3m3 minutes ago
K on Jah: "I thought he got beaten up today, man. People are just grabbing him." (cont)
(cont) K on Jah: Well, he’s initiating contact—he’s not initiating that contact. Any way. You’re right there in the end zone, you can see it
(cont) K on Jah: "He gets beat up a lot. He really gets beat up a lot. And then we’re sitting with him on the bench. Kind of nuts."

[Utley]

I though Tyus was phenomenal tonight. He had a stretch during the first five or six minutes of the second half that featured a series of passes that are good as you are going to see..

Such a treat to watch us play with a great point guard.

I think this was clearly a game of us getting Florida State's best game. I am happy that we survive these games and keep bringing it for the big boys.

[SCMatt33]

One difference though is that this was our 3rd game in 6 days. In the NCAAT, we'd play 2 in 3 days BUT with much more rest before the first game.

I did think fatigue played a factor in the second half.

Well FSU was also playing their 3rd in 6 days, and the NCAA round of 32 and Elite 8 could be 3 games in 8 days or less likely 3 in 7 (given that Charlotte is Friday-Sunday) and we are unlikely to go to a Thursday regional (West/Midwest), so not all that different from tonight.

[Furniture]

Ooo no but I hope someone tivoed.

I did but the other half is watching the Bachelor.......

[roywhite]

I though Tyus was phenomenal tonight. He had a stretch during the first five or six minutes of the second half that featured a series of passes that are good as you are going to see..

Such a treat to watch us play with a great point guard.



Yeah, in a game with plenty of ugly plays, Tyus made some beautiful passes.

And a beautiful stat line (ESPN unofficial) for a freshman guard on the road:
39 minutes
16 points on 6-13 FG; 2-4 3-pt, and 2-2 FT
6 rebounds (led the team!)
12 assists
1 turnover

[weezie]

,,,I thought he got beaten up today, man. People are just grabbing him....You’re right there in the end zone, you can see it...
He gets beat up a lot. He really gets beat up a lot. And then we’re sitting with him on the bench. Kind of nuts

That's putting it mildly. Even if you cut everything by 50%, Jah is getting shoved and held, non-stop. Maybe the defenders are faster and can hide their grabbing, maybe he's still learning how to deal with guys near his own size but please! OK, I'm a whiner, OK, I'm biased but it just goes on and on, the refs see nothing below the shoulders in the paint.

Bilas has said, just keep fouling because the refs will only call so many and eventually it begins to work in your favor. And our #1 Freshman can't get off the bench!

[WiJoe]

Two things:

A) Best-looking uniforms in a LONG time. Closer to old-time blue, and white! School colors! Who knew?

2) Coach K said team was physically and mentally prepared for game, but not emotionally.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Great game by our guards.

Seemed like we played prevent defense down the stretch. We seemed too relaxed with the lead. A dangerous way to play.

Great execution getting the ball to Quinn at the end. His free throws to keep the lead at 3 were huge.

Coach K made a great call to foul twice up 3 in the final seconds.

Never take an ACC road win for granted. :-)

[dyedwab]

Laura Keeley ‏@laurakeeley 3m3 minutes ago
K on Jah: "I thought he got beaten up today, man. People are just grabbing him." (cont)
(cont) K on Jah: Well, he’s initiating contact—he’s not initiating that contact. Any way. You’re right there in the end zone, you can see it
(cont) K on Jah: "He gets beat up a lot. He really gets beat up a lot. And then we’re sitting with him on the bench. Kind of nuts."

I'm glad K said this, because my overwhelming feeling about the game was that I was angry at how badly we were being beaten up, yet the only calls that came our way were contact on drives to the basket, and even then, lots got missed.

I mean, yeah, I know, that's the way FSU plays, and yeah, we have to learn how to play through it, and yeah, Okafor isn't a great defender so he commits fouls....but two things are clear to me

1) NCAA refs let lots of contact go in the post especially off the ball and

2) they have NO IDEA had to deal with a player as offensively talented as Okafor - he called for travels and offensive fouls that other players wouldn't get called for, and he doesn't get as many +1's as he should because he makes shots through contact.

Anyway, glad we won, and hate watching Florida State play basketball...

[77devil]

My MOTM should probably be Quinn Cook for his play throughout the game, but Matt Jones' late game charge probably saved this one for us so he got my vote!!

The charge was a great play but Matt was 0-5 with two turnovers; 3 TOs if you count the pass to Quinn with time expiring on the shot clock.

[NYBri]

Second half of the second half, we forgot we had the best player in college basketball.

Win is a win. Next game.

[Dukehky]

Second half of the second half, we forgot we had the best player in college basketball.

Win is a win. Next game.

He was getting manhandled the entire game. Ojo was literally thrown him out of the way every time he tried to establish position. He wasn't open for that long because he got fouled every time down the court in order for FSU to cover him. Him not getting the ball is not on him, nor is it on our guys, it was on the refs.

If I was Jah I would be ecstatic to go to the NBA, if for no other reason than I might actually get some f-ing calls. The refs have not learned how to officiate him yet, and it's on them. Every game we do should be a highlight on how not to officiate the post.

[BlueandWhite]

[QUOTE=Dukehky;778474]He was getting manhandled the entire game. Ojo was literally thrown him out of the way every time he tried to establish position. He wasn't open for that long because he got fouled every time down the court in order for FSU to cover him. Him not getting the ball is not on him, nor is it on our guys, it was on the refs.

If I was Jah I would be ecstatic to go to the NBA, if for no other reason than I might actually get some f-ing calls. The refs have not learned how to officiate him yet, and it's on them. Every game we do should be a highlight on how not to officiate the post.[/QUOTE

Great post. Okafor could have and should have been able to post a 20-10 game or more on that clod Ojo and the rest of FSUs stiff front court, but the refs weren't competent to call the game correctly, period. Also, so FSU shot 50% from 3, big deal, they are a terrible shooting team. Glad that one is over.

[Kfanarmy]

Okafor is learning how to play D. It's a work in progress. Two weeks ago folks were thinking he was being so timid that he wasn't being called for any fouls...now he's being a bit more aggressive and is getting some fouls called against him. I'm glad to see it. He's learning. He's growing. That's a good thing. He will continue to improve and that's good for him and the team. Patience. Rome wasn't...

[tux]

I thought Tyus was clearly the MOTM. 16 points, 12 assists, 6 boards, and 1 TO in 39 minutes is crazy good. He made some great passes to Jah early in the 2nd half that led to easy baskets. The game is so much easier when you have someone who can create those sort of opportunities for the team.

Quinn also had a very efficient game -- a little odd that he didn't have a single assist, but I think it shows how much he's become our SG, and less of a secondary ballhandler...

I'm not as bothered as some by the 2nd half run from FSU. They made some incredibly tough shots (a couple long 3s, and some crazy off-balance drives, etc.) That kind of stuff happens on the road, when the crowd gets going. The main thing is that Duke found a way to win a tough road game after a short turn-around and a 30 point blow-out.

I also think the transition defense has improved over the last couple of weeks.

Amile is starting but playing back-up minutes, more or less. He's not a good option in the high post, as he's not confident taking the short jumper and not likely to drive it either. He can do a lot of damage hanging out around the weak side post, or getting offensive rebounds. But Marshall is also proving to be good in that same role, although more foul prone.

Watched UVA beat Louisville. One thing about the UVA defense: they're quick to help on drivers and also very quick to recover. I.e., they're good at rotating just enough to prevent the ballhandler from getting into the lane, but they don't over-commit to the point of opening up easy passing lanes.

[Billy Dat]

Watched UVA beat Louisville. One thing about the UVA defense: they're quick to help on drivers and also very quick to recover. I.e., they're good at rotating just enough to prevent the ballhandler from getting into the lane, but they don't over-commit to the point of opening up easy passing lanes.

In other words, they play great defense.

;^)

It seems so simple, but tough to do at the highest levels.

[jipops]

I really hope the quick turnaround was affecting Duke in the 2nd half because the defense was straight up dreadful. This was one of the worst offensive teams in the conference seemingly scoring at will.

Oh well, I'll certainly take the conference win.

[Neals384]

Krzyzewski's been calling those kind of timeouts for years. I guess he'd be up around 1200 wins if he didn't.

Really? A timeout with the lead, in the second half, when we just hit two threes in a row and have all the momentum? Have to admit I haven't watched every game for the last 8 years, but it immediately struck me as odd because I don't recall him ever doing that before.

Perhaps he called the timeout in order to sub Amile in for Grayson. But I just rewatched that sequence and Grayson did not mess up so getting him out of the game couldn't be the reason for the timeout. Smith did score a layup in between the two three pointers, but it was Justise who turned his head and lost his man on that one.

After the timeout, the next play was Amile fouling a 3-pt shooter. By, by momentum.

[Kedsy]

My MOTM should probably be Quinn Cook for his play throughout the game, but Matt Jones' late game charge probably saved this one for us so he got my vote!!


Laura Keeley ‏@laurakeeley 3m3 minutes ago
K came back into the locker room after the media had been let in (oops) to tell Matt Jones he had the play of the game with that charge

I agree with Coach K and HateCarolina. Matt Jones drawing that charge was without doubt the most importantly play of the game.

[Kedsy]

Amile is starting but playing back-up minutes, more or less.

Amile played 21 minutes against FSU, which is a little better than his average over the previous 5 games and a couple minutes worse than his average for the entire season. If he's "playing back-up minutes," who would you say he's backing up?

[kAzE]

Thoughts on each player:

Jah: Never much to say about him, insert every big man superlative that the announcers are always gushing about. Starting to pick up some cheap fouls lately. He needs to just play smart defense and just learn to give up a layup if he's got one foul already. He needs to stay out there.

Tyus: Best player on the floor tonight. The dude just never gets rattled, always makes the right play, just so damn smart out there, it's easy to see why he almost never comes out of the game. So many brilliant passes, those long outlets were right on the money. He assisted on something like 4 or 5 straight buckets for us early in the 2nd half, it was amazing.

Quinn: We would have lost without his scoring tonight, he hit so many big shots in the 2nd half, and grabbed a huge defensive rebound when Bookert missed his 2nd free throw on purpose. Smallest guy on the floor comes up with the ball when everyone on their team is trying to get the offensive rebound, that's big time.

Justise: Wasn't his best night, but he was due for an off night after 3 awesome games. Still came up with 2 HUGE defensive plays, a block and a steal in the last few minutes that were absolutely crucial. Also, getting 10(!!!) free throw attempts and making 7 of them ain't too shabby. He is our best, and really, only effective slasher.

Amile: Well, I give up. I really thought he would have a bigger role this year. I thought he was easily our 3rd best player last year after Jabari and Rodney Hood, and our best defensive player, but it seems that he doesn't quite fit in with both Jah and Winslow on the floor, which sucks, because those 2 guys are the 2 most physically dominant guys we have, and they need to be out there. Amile is just kind of okay at the things those 2 guys are great at, and isn't a good enough shooter to space the floor properly when those guys are out there. He's a much better player than his stats would indicate, but he's essentially our 6th man. We still absolutely need him to play 20-25 minutes every game, but Justise is almost always the power forward in crunch time, with Matt at the 3.

Matt: Not a good performance. Matt Jones make want to tear my effing hair out. I can't remember a Duke player who consistently gets his shot blocked as much as Matt Jones. It seems to happen to him at least once a game. (Insert GIF of Coach K screaming PASS THE BALL) He almost always gets tunnel vision when he drives to the paint and never looks to pass, and his floater/in-between game needs a lot of work. He also seems to have the Plumlee brick hands syndrome where he just CANNOT FREAKING SECURE A LOOSE BALL. Sigh . . . I'm sorry, I know for some reason, everyone else here loves Matt, he just infuriates me sometimes, because he can have a game like he had last game and then come out and do this. It's already been beat to death, but not shooting it with 2 seconds left on the shot clock was also pretty bad. If Matt Jones plays an AVERAGE game here, we win by 10-15 points easily. /endrant

Grayson: I know he's still not ready, but I love this kid so much. He just tries so hard, and he has the talent and athletic ability to be great. I think he's going to somewhat put it together by the end of the year. He'll be a contributor. Calling it right now, he will hit at least 2 big threes in a NCAA tournament game.

Marshall: He gifted his hands to Matt Jones and can now actually grab the ball. This is a big improvement. He gives solid minutes when Okafor is on the bench, and I really can't complain. The guy is a great back up center. I am kind of scared of what will happen if he's forced to play 25+ minutes, though. He goes 120% all the time. I do not think that will turn out well.

[uh_no]

To quote Belichick, "We're on to Syracuse."

hmmm...i think you could say what we did in the last few minutes as "belichick-ing"...

DEF Belichicking: taking the air out of the ball.

[gumbomoop]

Stall-ball is premised, I think, on the idea that it's acceptable to be outscored in the last few minutes, as long as the lead is protected until the game ends. When playing stall-ball, it's important that the players understand that the clock is our friend, so that fouling is a no-no. Quinn, once, and Jahlil, twice, made the fundamental error of fouling. In Quinn's case, he fouled just inside half-court, well before FSU had initiated any move for a shot. In Jahlil's case, both times he committed the double sin of a foul that was soft and thus became an and-one.

These are such fundamental time-and-situation errors that I'm sure the staff was tearing its collective hair out. Possibly cursing just a bit, if less vociferously than the rest of us.

Depending on the exact situation and Duke lead, the Duke-D late keys are usually, and obviously, (1) no clock-stop, (2) no open 3-bombs, and (3) no and-ones. It's ok to not "win" the last 2-3 minutes, but it's essential to keep the "loss" from producing a toss-up. This one came very close to toss-up because of not-thinking, not executing the fundamentals.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Really? A timeout with the lead, in the second half, when we just hit two threes in a row and have all the momentum? Have to admit I haven't watched every game for the last 8 years, but it immediately struck me as odd because I don't recall him ever doing that before.

Perhaps he called the timeout in order to sub Amile in for Grayson. But I just rewatched that sequence and Grayson did not mess up so getting him out of the game couldn't be the reason for the timeout. Smith did score a layup in between the two three pointers, but it was Justise who turned his head and lost his man on that one.

After the timeout, the next play was Amile fouling a 3-pt shooter. By, by momentum.

Coach K often uses timeouts after scores to set up our defense and prepare our team for big stops. Has been doing it for as long as I can remember.

[Troublemaker]

As of the time of this post, GoDuke hasn't put up the postgame presser yet. I believe that would be the first time this season they haven't managed to do that for a game, even those away from Cameron.

Coach K's opening remarks are here: http://www.tallahassee.com/videos/sports/2015/02/09/23154965/

But that video's missing all the reporter Q&A that occurs after

[jmck214]

Krzyzewski's been calling those kind of timeouts for years. I guess he'd be up around 1200 wins if he didn't.

I've always hated calling timeouts after made baskets especially when Duke starts to get a run together and especially at home when the crazies start to get into it. Almost do the other coach a favor since they are probably thinking about burning a TO to stop the run

[jv001]

Something I noticed last night(surprise) was that MPIII caught the basketball without fumbling it. Both on rebounds and passes. One or two passes were behind the big guy and he just snatched the ball out of the air like it was a tennis ball. I'm hoping that the games are slowing down for MPIII as he can be a great asset and he was last night. What a great first half for the big man. I would hope he get's the 10-15 minutes he deserves. His defense has really improved. GoDuke!

[CDu]

Amile played 21 minutes against FSU, which is a little better than his average over the previous 5 games and a couple minutes worse than his average for the entire season. If he's "playing back-up minutes," who would you say he's backing up?

The answer would be Matt Jones, who is averaging 2.5 more mpg over the last six games. Last night, though, Jefferson played slightly more than Jones.

[RepoMan]

I loved to see Grayson's block/foul on the breakaway dunk attempt. Before the season is over, we will need 8 guys, and he is looking more natural out there.

Quinn's leadership has been exceptional this season -- not sure I really expected that.

[Danke Shane]

In slo mo, seemed like he said something along the lines of "one more ____." And from both their subsequent reactions, I'd wager k wasn't pleased.


Hmmm, I wonder if he made a snide remark/back-handed compliment re: Coach K's wins total or something?

[Native]

Laura Keeley ‏@laurakeeley 3m3 minutes ago
K on Jah: "I thought he got beaten up today, man. People are just grabbing him." (cont)
(cont) K on Jah: Well, he’s initiating contact—he’s not initiating that contact. Any way. You’re right there in the end zone, you can see it
(cont) K on Jah: "He gets beat up a lot. He really gets beat up a lot. And then we’re sitting with him on the bench. Kind of nuts."

Jah's tired. I mean, think about it: the kid's a teenager and basically gets roughhoused by guys two or three years older than him every game for 35 minutes at a time, and he still puts up incredible numbers. And that's not a harp on officiating or anything, more just the physical nature of the game. We're very lucky to have a player of his caliber.

It's promising to me that we seem to have a great game plan when Jah is not in the game; use Marshall as a physical, rebounding backup and let Tyus, Justise, Matt, and Quinn go to work. Certainly K is mindful of spelling Jah when he can so that we can get the best out of him when we need it.

[moonpie23]

just as ugly as i imagined it would be........last year's team would have lost that game....


next game...

[camion]

We won. That's good enough for me.

There won't ever be a pretty game when we play at FSU.

[FerryFor50]

Justise: Wasn't his best night, but he was due for an off night after 3 awesome games. Still came up with 2 HUGE defensive plays, a block and a steal in the last few minutes that were absolutely crucial. Also, getting 10(!!!) free throw attempts and making 7 of them ain't too shabby. He is our best, and really, only effective slasher.

Matt: Not a good performance. Matt Jones make want to tear my effing hair out. I can't remember a Duke player who consistently gets his shot blocked as much as Matt Jones. It seems to happen to him at least once a game. (Insert GIF of Coach K screaming PASS THE BALL) He almost always gets tunnel vision when he drives to the paint and never looks to pass, and his floater/in-between game needs a lot of work. He also seems to have the Plumlee brick hands syndrome where he just CANNOT FREAKING SECURE A LOOSE BALL. Sigh . . . I'm sorry, I know for some reason, everyone else here loves Matt, he just infuriates me sometimes, because he can have a game like he had last game and then come out and do this. It's already been beat to death, but not shooting it with 2 seconds left on the shot clock was also pretty bad. If Matt Jones plays an AVERAGE game here, we win by 10-15 points easily. /endrant

Grayson: I know he's still not ready, but I love this kid so much. He just tries so hard, and he has the talent and athletic ability to be great. I think he's going to somewhat put it together by the end of the year. He'll be a contributor. Calling it right now, he will hit at least 2 big threes in a NCAA tournament game.



I don't get this.

Justise shoots 1-6 from the field. Has an easy layup blocked. Gets credit for his defense and no mention of the blocked shot.

Grayson plays a little bit. Shoots 1-4. Has a decent defensive play that ends up as a foul. Gets credit for "trying hard" and having talent.

Matt Jones shoots 0-6 but plays solid defense and has probably THE key play of the game on a charge. Gets lambasted. Does Jones not also "try hard"? Isn't Matt Jones *already* a contributor (17 points last game... remember?) If Jones couldn't secure loose balls, how did he secure 3 offensive rebounds? How did he catch that ball off the Tyus Jones blocked shot that ended up in a shot clock violation and make a good pass to Cook?

I still refuse to blame Matt Jones for the shot clock violation. He was in the corner - can you see the shot clock easily from the corner? Tyus had his shot blocked after not getting a foul call. There was very little time for Matt to do anything but catch the loose ball and shoot, but had 3 defenders coming at him.

That shot clock violation was a result of a series of events that were just a bad offensive possession.

[peterjswift]

What can K or anyone do to ensure Okafor can start getting calls? I have a recollection of a situation in the past where a coach (perhaps K?) thought his player wasn't getting the calls, so they put together a montage of all the no-calls all season and sent it to the ACC. This might just be my faulty memory - but even putting together a montage of no-calls on Okafor and uploading it to YouTube would likely make its way to referees.

I don't know what it is like to watch a game as an unbiased observer, but I really think that there is a double standard for fouling based on the size of the person. Because Okafor is so big and strong, players don't get fouls called on them for pushing him around as much as they would if he was...well, Grayson Allen or something. I'm sure this goes both ways - but this level of physicality is likely to lead to injuries. I applaud Okafor for not picking up technicals out of frustration so far this season - I don't think I have that level of patience.

I really hate complaining about referees (though any observer of my life would assume it is one of my passions!), but it is very frustrating to see Okafor get hammered left and right in almost every game, and the refs seem to ignore it.

Though, in last night's game, my least favorite play didn't involve Okafor - it was the no-call tackle of Tyus near the end of the game. Hearing Battier compliment the refs on the no-call afterwards was a moment of serious cognitive dissonance.

[FerryFor50]

What can K or anyone do to ensure Okafor can start getting calls? I have a recollection of a situation in the past where a coach (perhaps K?) thought his player wasn't getting the calls, so they put together a montage of all the no-calls all season and sent it to the ACC. This might just be my faulty memory - but even putting together a montage of no-calls on Okafor and uploading it to YouTube would likely make its way to referees.

I don't know what it is like to watch a game as an unbiased observer, but I really think that there is a double standard for fouling based on the size of the person. Because Okafor is so big and strong, players don't get fouls called on them for pushing him around as much as they would if he was...well, Grayson Allen or something. I'm sure this goes both ways - but this level of physicality is likely to lead to injuries. I applaud Okafor for not picking up technicals out of frustration so far this season - I don't think I have that level of patience.

I really hate complaining about referees (though any observer of my life would assume it is one of my passions!), but it is very frustrating to see Okafor get hammered left and right in almost every game, and the refs seem to ignore it.

Though, in last night's game, my least favorite play didn't involve Okafor - it was the no-call tackle of Tyus near the end of the game. Hearing Battier compliment the refs on the no-call afterwards was a moment of serious cognitive dissonance.

Only way to get Okafor any calls would be to have him wear a light blue jersey when he plays.

Keep in mind that Tyus Jones gets hit quite a bit, too, and doesn't necessarily get those calls.

[tbyers11]

Jah's tired. I mean, think about it: the kid's a teenager and basically gets roughhoused by guys two or three years older than him every game for 35 minutes at a time, and he still puts up incredible numbers. And that's not a harp on officiating or anything, more just the physical nature of the game. We're very lucky to have a player of his caliber.

It's promising to me that we seem to have a great game plan when Jah is not in the game; use Marshall as a physical, rebounding backup and let Tyus, Justise, Matt, and Quinn go to work. Certainly K is mindful of spelling Jah when he can so that we can get the best out of him when we need it.

I agree with Jah being tired. Even though he sat out the last 10 minutes of the first half, he was getting physically pounded all the game. I think being tired contributed to his very poor defense in the last 6 minutes of the game. I'm very surprised, especially with as well as MP3 played in the first half, that he didn't see the floor at all in the 2nd half. I think a minute or two breather somewhere in the 2nd half would have helped Jahlil a lot.

[_Gary]

I realize there's absolute truth to Coach's comment about Matt having the single biggest defensive play in the game. No doubt about that. I also realize, and agree, with K consistently making a point to encourage Matt in his post-game pressers by pointing out the good things he's doing in different games. No doubt this is a particular strategy with Coach as it concerns MJones this season. The kid needs to keep his confidence up and obviously Coach K thinks mentioning his positive plays publicly in pressers is a way to do that. I get it.

But... and I do love Matt, he does tend to drive this fan crazy on the offensive end. Every time I think he's gotten over the hump and will find more consistency on the offensive end of the floor he seems instead to have a reversal. Has there ever been a Duke player that has had more layup attempts blocked in a single season than Matt? It's almost comical at this point. And his threes seem to be so hit and miss it's insane. Last night his teammates set him up with wide-open looks and he just couldn't get any to fall. Had he hit even one I think we would have won this game a lot easier. Not just because it would have given us 3 more points, but because it seemed to me that each one he missed was somewhat of a momentum killer for us, or momentum starter for the 'Noles. Perhaps that wasn't the case, but it seemed like it to me. I root for him hard and know that we desperately need him to somehow get consistency on the offensive end. I do believe he's a major key to us advancing deep into the tournament. Here's hoping he can bounce back and truly improve his shooting going forward.

[jv001]

I don't get this.

Justise shoots 1-6 from the field. Has an easy layup blocked. Gets credit for his defense and no mention of the blocked shot.

Grayson plays a little bit. Shoots 1-4. Has a decent defensive play that ends up as a foul. Gets credit for "trying hard" and having talent.

Matt Jones shoots 0-6 but plays solid defense and has probably THE key play of the game on a charge. Gets lambasted. Does Jones not also "try hard"? Isn't Matt Jones *already* a contributor (17 points last game... remember?) If Jones couldn't secure loose balls, how did he secure 3 offensive rebounds? How did he catch that ball off the Tyus Jones blocked shot that ended up in a shot clock violation and make a good pass to Cook?

I still refuse to blame Matt Jones for the shot clock violation. He was in the corner - can you see the shot clock easily from the corner? Tyus had his shot blocked after not getting a foul call. There was very little time for Matt to do anything but catch the loose ball and shoot, but had 3 defenders coming at him.

That shot clock violation was a result of a series of events that were just a bad offensive possession.

I just watched the game again and I'm not putting blame on Matt for that play. Matt seems to be a heady player so I think he knew the in game situation. The problem was with his slow release push shot, more than likely the shot get's blocked even if he shoots it. If he had a true jumper in his arsenal, with his length, he get's off a good shot. I can't complain about Matt's play because he works hard and plays good defense. GoDuke!

[peterjswift]

Only way to get Okafor any calls would be to have him wear a light blue jersey when he plays.

Keep in mind that Tyus Jones gets hit quite a bit, too, and doesn't necessarily get those calls.

That is true, but I don't think Tyus is getting grabbed, pushed, held etc nearly as consistently as Okafor is.

As far as a light blue jersey goes - I don't think he would ever get fouled if he wore one. I mean...who would want to get close enough to the jersey to even touch it?

[Danke Shane]

Only way to get Okafor any calls would be to have him wear a light blue jersey when he plays.

Keep in mind that Tyus Jones gets hit quite a bit, too, and doesn't necessarily get those calls.

It reminds me of when we had Redick. The refs seemed reluctant to call the fouls when he was repeatedly hacked and grabbed as he was making cuts without the ball, as if it wouldn't be fair to the other team to give him all those "extra" free throw opportunities.

[bbosbbos]

I think everyone, except for JW, played normal yesterday. Noles are very big and physical. A win is a win.

It was not surprised to me big Jah was pushed hard but no fouls were called. His D was still a weakness.
QC played well.
TJ played well. Our two guards won the game for us.
MJ played ok but his 3s did not go in and lay ups were blocked.
MP3 played very well.
AJ was hit in the face early in the game. He could not beat the FSU bigs. Not a game for him.

I think Winslow is the 2nd best player in college this year. (You know who is the #1.) Therefore I have very high expectation to his games. In our wins against UVA, UL, ND & Wisc, he played like James Lebron. But sometimes he was too quiet and disappeared in the game, for example in the 1st 10 minutes of the 2nd half yesterday. Hope he can play well consistently and will carry us to another NC.

[roywhite]

It reminds me of when we had Redick. The refs seemed reluctant to call the fouls when he was repeatedly hacked and grabbed as he was making cuts without the ball, as if it wouldn't be fair to the other team to give him all those "extra" free throw opportunities.

Interesting point, that the refs may feel (consciously or otherwise) that the really great players don't need help. But....that a hard-working "everyman" like Tyler Hansbrough is allowed to travel and also get the calls when he bangs into defenders. Okay, I know we're Duke fans here, but the favorable treatment that Hansbrough got seemed different than for any other ACC player in my memory.

[FerryFor50]

It reminds me of when we had Redick. The refs seemed reluctant to call the fouls when he was repeatedly hacked and grabbed as he was making cuts without the ball, as if it wouldn't be fair to the other team to give him all those "extra" free throw opportunities.

Well, with Redick, he played in an era where that grabbing was allowed. Now that they focus more on "freedom of movement" for guys like Redick that cut and run without the ball, he might have gotten more calls in the modern college game.

[tux]

Amile played 21 minutes against FSU, which is a little better than his average over the previous 5 games and a couple minutes worse than his average for the entire season. If he's "playing back-up minutes," who would you say he's backing up?

Sorry. "Back up minutes" was probably not a good way to phrase that. We have two captains. Quinn played 40 minutes last night and Amile played 21. Amile is the guy who seems to be splitting minutes with several of our bench players. He does a lot of good things, but he also has several noticeable limitations that are keeping him on the bench for long stretches. FT shooting is one of them. But mainly he can become a non-factor on offense at times --- I'm not sure why we flash him to the high post --- nothing productive ever seems to come from that --- mostly he just ends up handing the ball back to a guard on the perimeter.

[FerryFor50]

I realize there's absolute truth to Coach's comment about Matt having the single biggest defensive play in the game. No doubt about that. I also realize, and agree, with K consistently making a point to encourage Matt in his post-game pressers by pointing out the good things he's doing in different games. No doubt this is a particular strategy with Coach as it concerns MJones this season. The kid needs to keep his confidence up and obviously Coach K thinks mentioning his positive plays publicly in pressers is a way to do that. I get it.

But... and I do love Matt, he does tend to drive this fan crazy on the offensive end. Every time I think he's gotten over the hump and will find more consistency on the offensive end of the floor he seems instead to have a reversal. Has there ever been a Duke player that has had more layup attempts blocked in a single season than Matt? It's almost comical at this point. And his threes seem to be so hit and miss it's insane. Last night his teammates set him up with wide-open looks and he just couldn't get any to fall. Had he hit even one I think we would have won this game a lot easier. Not just because it would have given us 3 more points, but because it seemed to me that each one he missed was somewhat of a momentum killer for us, or momentum starter for the 'Noles. Perhaps that wasn't the case, but it seemed like it to me. I root for him hard and know that we desperately need him to somehow get consistency on the offensive end. I do believe he's a major key to us advancing deep into the tournament. Here's hoping he can bounce back and truly improve his shooting going forward.

Matt Jones is 21-58 from 3 on the year. 36%

Justise Winslow is 28-77 from 3. 36%

Grayson Allen is 7-23. 30%

Last night, Winslow was 1-3 from 3. Matt Jones was 0-3. Grayson Allen was 0-1.

Matt Jones is shooting, for the year, as well as Justise Winslow from 3. And shooting better than Grayson Allen. Yet everyone talks about how great Allen shoots and no one criticizes Winslow's shooting.

I think there's a lot of perception problems with Matt because of how ugly his shot is. But truth is, it's been decently effective and he's obviously been given the green light by his teammates and coaching staff to be aggressive on offense, given the fact that he doesn't get pulled after taking a shot.

[FerryFor50]

Sorry. "Back up minutes" was probably not a good way to phrase that. We have two captains. Quinn played 40 minutes last night and Amile played 21. Amile is the guy who seems to be splitting minutes with several of our bench players. He does a lot of good things, but he also has several noticeable limitations that are keeping him on the bench for long stretches. FT shooting is one of them. But mainly he can become a non-factor on offense at times --- I'm not sure why we flash him to the high post --- nothing productive ever seems to come from that --- mostly he just ends up handing the ball back to a guard on the perimeter.

Amile also got busted pretty good in the eye.

That could have had something to do with it....

4747

[freshmanjs]

Amile also got busted pretty good in the eye.

That could have had something to do with it....

4747

you might think that except that his minutes have been at about that level throughout the acc season

[FerryFor50]

you might think that except that his minutes have been at about that level throughout the acc season

I think it's been mostly about matchups and foul trouble, as well as the improved play of Matt Jones. Matt offers rebounding and defense, as well as better offense than Amile.

This is what Amile's game logs look like. Last big minutes were against Pitt.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/amile-jefferson-1/gamelog/2015/

In the in-game thread, I wondered why Amile wasn't being as aggressive on offense as he was earlier in the season. I recall him posting up, driving and even taking (and making) an occasional mid-range jumper. What happened to that? Now, when he catches the ball, he just immediately looks to give it up. Back to basket at the top of the key.

I'd like to see him at least ATTEMPT the shot to keep defenses honest. I wonder if the coaching staff told him not to.

[tux]

I think it's been mostly about matchups and foul trouble, as well as the improved play of Matt Jones. Matt offers rebounding and defense, as well as better offense than Amile.

This is what Amile's game logs look like. Last big minutes were against Pitt.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/amile-jefferson-1/gamelog/2015/

In the in-game thread, I wondered why Amile wasn't being as aggressive on offense as he was earlier in the season. I recall him posting up, driving and even taking (and making) an occasional mid-range jumper. What happened to that? Now, when he catches the ball, he just immediately looks to give it up. Back to basket at the top of the key.

I'd like to see him at least ATTEMPT the shot to keep defenses honest. I wonder if the coaching staff told him not to.


Well, from the looks of it, the defenses would love for him to take that shot too. At this point, I think Amile needs to just be opportunistic: be ready on the weak side when Jah is doubled and crash the boards when shots go up. Both Winslow and Jah can do more damage from the high post or out setting screens than Amile IMO. He brings a ton of energy and is a great team (glue) guy, but an Amile with a more advanced offensive repertoire is probably not showing up this season. But I agree, in the right match-up, Amile has shown the ability to operate in the post effectively. In short, as someone else noted, he's starting but is contributing more like a decent 6th man (regardless of a couple outlier games...)


EDIT: My original post wasn't meant to start a debate about Amile. I love Amile and generally agree with your post --- but I think I'm describing the current reality pretty well.

[roywhite]

Don't know if the players and coaches feel the same way, but I kinda like the Saturday/Monday game sequence.

Gives us a quick fix after a weekend game, and then clears some time for the team to rest, practice, and catch up on school work before the next Saturday game. Good prep for tournament play, too. Weds/Saturday is fine; what I don't like are Sunday games and 9:00 PM weekday games.

[FerryFor50]

Well, from the looks of it, the defenses would love for him to take that shot too. At this point, I think Amile needs to just be opportunistic: be ready on the weak side when Jah is doubled and crash the boards when shots go up. Both Winslow and Jah can do more damage from the high post or out setting screens than Amile IMO. He brings a ton of energy and is a great team (glue) guy, but an Amile with a more advanced offensive repertoire is probably not showing up this season. But I agree, in the right match-up, Amile has shown the ability to operate in the post effectively. In short, as someone else noted, he's starting but is contributing more like a decent 6th man (regardless of a couple outlier games...)


EDIT: My original post wasn't meant to start a debate about Amile. I love Amile and generally agree with your post --- but I think I'm describing the current reality pretty well.

Sure, but at least threaten a shot. Head fake. Look at the basket. He's proven he can score a bit.

[subzero02]

Don't know if the players and coaches feel the same way, but I kinda like the Saturday/Monday game sequence.

Gives us a quick fix after a weekend game, and then clears some time for the team to rest, practice, and catch up on school work before the next Saturday game. Good prep for tournament play, too. Weds/Saturday is fine; what I don't like are Sunday games and 9:00 PM weekday games.

The Saturday/Monday format probably isn't something you want your team to have to deal with more than once or twice a season. Some years it could really put a team in a bind, especially with an unbalanced conference schedule. I love 9 pm weekday games; I work late so it allows me to watch them live.

[kAzE]

Sure, but at least threaten a shot. Head fake. Look at the basket. He's proven he can score a bit.

This . . . everytime he catches it at the free throw line, he doesn't even turn towards the paint . . . he just immediately looks at the opposite wing for the pass. If there was a wide open lane to the basket, he'd probably never even know the way he's playing . . .

I thought he was turning a corner a couple of games ago when he was successful on a couple of aggressive drives, but the last few games, he's gone back to not even threatening to try to score. My only explanation is that his low free throw rate is causing him to be less aggressive in the paint.

[evrim]

The best thing about FSU games is that they are over, and there are no injuries. They play dirty and hard, and some of the blocks their big men had was because somebody else was hitting our player in the head. I was very happy we finished the game with no injuries. I do not understand why referees do not call the super blatant hits.

[evrim]

This . . . everytime he catches it at the free throw line, he doesn't even turn towards the paint . . . he just immediately looks at the opposite wing for the pass. I


You are right - there was one in this game where he had wide open access to the basket but he didn't even look and just kicked it out.

[devildeac]

That is true, but I don't think Tyus is getting grabbed, pushed, held etc nearly as consistently as Okafor is.

As far as a light blue jersey goes - I don't think he would ever get fouled if he wore one. I mean...who would want to get close enough to the jersey to even touch it?

Perhaps FerryFor50 meant if Jah wore that light blue jersey AND put 50 on it, THEN he'd start getting those fouls called. :mad:;)

[devildeac]

Amile also got busted pretty good in the eye.

That could have had something to do with it....

4747

No fracture, no foul?:rolleyes::mad:

[Duvall]

Amile also got busted pretty good in the eye.

That could have had something to do with it....

4747

That couldn't have been caused by getting hit in the face. A hit like that surely would have drawn a foul, right?

[superdave]

I agree with Jah being tired. Even though he sat out the last 10 minutes of the first half, he was getting physically pounded all the game. I think being tired contributed to his very poor defense in the last 6 minutes of the game. I'm very surprised, especially with as well as MP3 played in the first half, that he didn't see the floor at all in the 2nd half. I think a minute or two breather somewhere in the 2nd half would have helped Jahlil a lot.

It seemed to me last night that Coach K thought he had to play Jah the whole second half to make up for his limited first half minutes. But Jah was sucking wind half way through the second half and became ineffective. He is a young big man who needs a break now and then. He's not a veteran. Perhaps Coach K wants to teach him to both play without fouling and to play a whole half without a break. But if he is ineffective because he is winded, then that is a mistake on Coach K's part. I'd rather have explosive Jah for 18 minutes in the half and give him a break, especially when Marshall played so well.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'd like to see him at least ATTEMPT the shot to keep defenses honest. I wonder if the coaching staff told him not to.

Because it's a low percentage shot that hurts the team. And opposing defenses are begging him to shoot that shot by giving him at least 5 feet of space. Amile went through a series of around 5-6 games where he attempted that shot with mixed/negative results.

Every year on DBR, posters talk about [xxx] player working on a jump shot and potentially using it as a tool come game time. Last year, that someone was Josh Hairston. Two years before that, posters thought MP2 would have a jumper to expand his game (fortunately, MP2 never needed it). Generally, when DBR says, "[big man] worked on his jump shot this past summer" or "[big man] will improve on his mid-range," it only works 1 out of 5 times (okay, that number came out of nowhere. But it's a low number).

Let's face it, Amile won't have a jump shot this year and probably won't have one next year. He may, but the odds are against him. It's a tough skill to learn from scratch.

[_Gary]

Matt Jones is shooting, for the year, as well as Justise Winslow from 3. And shooting better than Grayson Allen. Yet everyone talks about how great Allen shoots and no one criticizes Winslow's shooting.

I think there's a lot of perception problems with Matt because of how ugly his shot is. But truth is, it's been decently effective and he's obviously been given the green light by his teammates and coaching staff to be aggressive on offense, given the fact that he doesn't get pulled after taking a shot.

Look, I'm pulling hard for Matt. I thought my post made that clear. The key for me is that Matt, seemingly more so than others, is either fairly hot or fairly cold. And while his percentage on 3's might be a tad better than Justise, that's moot to my bigger point because Winslow is a much more effective slasher. He doesn't get his layups blocked at anywhere near the rate Matt does. And Grayson hasn't played nearly enough for me to even think about comparing his stats to any of the other 7 core guys on the team, so that's also moot in my book.

Bottom line is that every time Matt seems to have a "coming out party" in terms of shooting the ball (like he did against ND), he can turn around and have another game like last night on the offensive end. It's just very frustrating for everyone. More so for him and the team than any one of us, no doubt. I'm just hoping he can figure out a way to be more consistent on the offensive end of the court. That's all. We will need him shooting better if we want to win 3 or 4 in a row in the ACC tournament, much less 6 in a row later in March/April.

[FerryFor50]

Because it's a low percentage shot that hurts the team. And opposing defenses are begging him to shoot that shot by giving him at least 5 feet of space. Amile went through a series of around 5-6 games where he attempted that shot with mixed/negative results.

Every year on DBR, posters talk about [xxx] player working on a jump shot and potentially using it as a tool come game time. Last year, that someone was Josh Hairston. Two years before that, posters thought MP2 would have a jumper to expand his game (fortunately, MP2 never needed it). Generally, when DBR says, "[big man] worked on his jump shot this past summer" or "[big man] will improve on his mid-range," it only works 1 out of 5 times (okay, that number came out of nowhere. But it's a low number).

Let's face it, Amile won't have a jump shot this year and probably won't have one next year. He may, but the odds are against him. It's a tough skill to learn from scratch.

But he showed the ability to hit it earlier in the season. Mixed/negative is better than zero, which allows the defense to ignore you and double up Okafor.

[UrinalCake]

What can K or anyone do to ensure Okafor can start getting calls? I have a recollection of a situation in the past where a coach (perhaps K?) thought his player wasn't getting the calls, so they put together a montage of all the no-calls all season and sent it to the ACC. This might just be my faulty memory - but even putting together a montage of no-calls on Okafor and uploading it to YouTube would likely make its way to referees.

I heard that Coach K sent one of Redick's game jerseys to the ACC commissioner's office, to show how torn up it was from defenders grabbing and holding him. This could have just been an old wives' tale though.

Oak gets fouled so much it's unreal. And it's not like he's so much bigger and stronger than his defenders like Shaq was. FSU had multiple guys that were his size or bigger. The refs just don't seem to care when he gets hacked repeatedly, whether it's his reputation or what, I don't know. Then it's compounded by him getting called for breathing on his man at the other end.

[77devil]

That couldn't have been caused by getting hit in the face. A hit like that surely would have drawn a foul, right?

Actually three fouls. Amile is fouled as he starts to make his move and turn the corner toward the basket, then he is banged in the face/eye, and finally hacked across the arms. Just another play in Tallahassee.

[flyingdutchdevil]

But he showed the ability to hit it earlier in the season. Mixed/negative is better than zero, which allows the defense to ignore you and double up Okafor.

But it's the expected value of the play that is important, not the percentage of hitting the mid-range vs not shooting. Let's say that Amile's mid-range is a 30% shot. But Amile passing out generates an expected value of 40%. And I'm sure the coaching staff has run the numbers and cannot justify Amile taking a very risky shot.

Not all shots are equal. It's why Coach K gives the green light some 3pt shooters and not to others. Or why he wants certain players to drive in traffic (like Winslow) and not others (like M Jones, where you could see Coach K screaming "pass" when M Jones did drive).

[MChambers]

Oak gets fouled so much it's unreal. And it's not like he's so much bigger and stronger than his defenders like Shaq was. FSU had multiple guys that were his size or bigger. The refs just don't seem to care when he gets hacked repeatedly, whether it's his reputation or what, I don't know. Then it's compounded by him getting called for breathing on his man at the other end.
Although I agree with you, there is precedent. Back in the late 1970s, a friend and I used to joke that anyone could foul Kareem anytime they wanted. (And that Dave Cowens could foul anyone whenever he wanted.)

I think Jahlil is already seeing the same referee treatment. The refs also were inconsistent on his first half charging foul, where the defender moved under him, and his two second half defensive fouls, where the offensive player jumped into him and he just held his position. At least that's the way it seemed to me with my Duke Blue glases.

It's just something he's going to have to live with. In the NBA, he'll still get fouled a lot with no calls, but he'll be able to dish it out, too.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I am satisfied any time we get a win in an ACC round game on Monday after playing on Saturday.

I am also optimistic about the rest of the season.

The staff can concentrate on the getting the most out of the 8 scholarship players.

Coach K will be doing all he can to bring the fouling of Okafur to the attention of officials and the press, maybe we will get some relief.

I think that the staff realizes that its very difficult to have a team with 4 frosh out of 8 play great man to man defense and is willing to mix it up with some zone.

We have excellent players.

Quinn and Tyus can make free throws which should help us win close games.

We have a period to regroup before the next game and the finish of the season.

SoCal

[rsvman]

....Oak gets fouled so much it's unreal. And it's not like he's so much bigger and stronger than his defenders like Shaq was. FSU had multiple guys that were his size or bigger. The refs just don't seem to care when he gets hacked repeatedly, whether it's his reputation or what, I don't know. Then it's compounded by him getting called for breathing on his man at the other end.

This has been a recurring theme on this thread and also pretty much throughout the season. I'll grant you that he gets hacked a fair bit without getting the calls, but I'd also like to offer a contrarian view that I haven't seen mentioned once this entire season.

Jah does a fair amount of very aggressive moving in the low post on his way to the basket that could reasonably be interpreted by some referees as offensive fouls. Particularly if one of the defenders decides to sell it a bit by falling backward, with or without going all the way to the ground.

In addition, he pushes off with the other hand a lot. Maybe not on every play, but on the majority of times he gets the ball in the post. When he makes that spin move, he is, at the very least, pushing off.

Other times he is actually hooking the defender with the off hand. I've seen him do this many times throughout the season. It has been called a few times, but nowhere near as often as he is getting away with it.


What's my point? I'm concerned. I'm worried that when we get to tournament play, we might get an official with a quick whistle, or a bias, or whatever. We might be trying to run the offense through Jah near the beginning of a game. And I could easily see Jah picking up 2 fouls in the first minute and a half or two minutes of, say, a Sweet 16 game. Then K will have to decide whether to pull him out of the game or let him play. This season coach has been pulling him out with the second foul, but Coach K has a history of leaving them in during tournament play, and it has hurt us in the past.

On the plus side, we've been effective with Marshall while Jah has been out. I'm actually glad that Jah's been sitting quite a bit in the first half of the last two games, because I'm afraid we're going to have to learn how to play without him, and I'd rather learn it now than when he's fouled out in the second half of a tournament game. I hope Coach K keeps pulling him out after two fouls in the first half. I think the ideal thing to do would be to give Jah regular rest on the bench and Marshall regular minutes, with or without a foul problem. I think Jah tires out too easily otherwise. And I think our defense is actually slightly better with Marshall in the game.

[gam7]

Jah does a fair amount of very aggressive moving in the low post on his way to the basket that could reasonably be interpreted by some referees as offensive fouls. Particularly if one of the defenders decides to sell it a bit by falling backward, with or without going all the way to the ground.



It never ceases to amaze me when referees reward this type of thing - it's a defensive gimmick, an attempt to dupe a referee into making a cheap call. Agree with the general concern of your post. We may get a sneak preview of this in our next game. I recall from last year that R. Christmas was pretty adept at selling calls that were rewarded by refs.

[DukieInKansas]

What can K or anyone do to ensure Okafor can start getting calls? I have a recollection of a situation in the past where a coach (perhaps K?) thought his player wasn't getting the calls, so they put together a montage of all the no-calls all season and sent it to the ACC. This might just be my faulty memory - but even putting together a montage of no-calls on Okafor and uploading it to YouTube would likely make its way to referees.

I don't know what it is like to watch a game as an unbiased observer, but I really think that there is a double standard for fouling based on the size of the person. Because Okafor is so big and strong, players don't get fouls called on them for pushing him around as much as they would if he was...well, Grayson Allen or something. I'm sure this goes both ways - but this level of physicality is likely to lead to injuries. I applaud Okafor for not picking up technicals out of frustration so far this season - I don't think I have that level of patience.

I really hate complaining about referees (though any observer of my life would assume it is one of my passions!), but it is very frustrating to see Okafor get hammered left and right in almost every game, and the refs seem to ignore it.

Though, in last night's game, my least favorite play didn't involve Okafor - it was the no-call tackle of Tyus near the end of the game. Hearing Battier compliment the refs on the no-call afterwards was a moment of serious cognitive dissonance.

But Battier did say, after seeing the angle looking toward the basket, that it should have been called as defensive pass interference. Looking from behind the basket, the foul wasn't as obvious. Looking toward the basket, you could see the FSU play grabbing his waist and pulling.

[sagegrouse]

Let's face it, Amile won't have a jump shot this year and probably won't have one next year. He may, but the odds are against him. It's a tough skill to learn from scratch.

A lot of those shots are just free throw distance, with no one guarding him. He shoots 57 percent from the line. Why doesn't he just take a few during action?

[roywhite]

A lot of those shots are just free throw distance, with no one guarding him. He shoots 57 percent from the line. Why doesn't he just take a few during action?

Well, have you seen his free throw prep? Lots of deep breaths, a few dribbles, practice strokes, staring at the rim, etc. It's gotta be about a 12-15 second routine, and I doubt his defenders would be okay with just watching.

[peterjswift]

But Battier did say, after seeing the angle looking toward the basket, that it should have been called as defensive pass interference. Looking from behind the basket, the foul wasn't as obvious. Looking toward the basket, you could see the FSU play grabbing his waist and pulling.

We're talking about a different call. I remember that one, and Duke did get the call on that...that was more the question of whether it was going to be Flagrant or not.

[wgl1228]

This was another game where we made no serious effort to get Okafor the ball in the last 10 minutes. The one time we did, he passed out to Matt Jones for a wide open brick. I know FSU has some bodies but you have to get him touches.

[devildeac]

Amile also got busted pretty good in the eye.

That could have had something to do with it....

4747

"Cut me, Mick!"

[jv001]

Matt Jones is 21-58 from 3 on the year. 36%

Justise Winslow is 28-77 from 3. 36%

Grayson Allen is 7-23. 30%

Last night, Winslow was 1-3 from 3. Matt Jones was 0-3. Grayson Allen was 0-1.

Matt Jones is shooting, for the year, as well as Justise Winslow from 3. And shooting better than Grayson Allen. Yet everyone talks about how great Allen shoots and no one criticizes Winslow's shooting.

I think there's a lot of perception problems with Matt because of how ugly his shot is. But truth is, it's been decently effective and he's obviously been given the green light by his teammates and coaching staff to be aggressive on offense, given the fact that he doesn't get pulled after taking a shot.

I don't think Matt's shot is ugly but more of the old time push shot that was seen in the 50s and 60s. Matter of fact, I would rather see Matt shoot a 3 pointer than see him drive into the lane. He get's too many shots blocked driving to the basket. But what Matt loses on offense, he more than makes up for on defense. Like the charge he took late in the game. The one that Coach K mentioned in post game. GoDuke!

[azzefkram]

I don't get this.

Yea, I thought it was a bit over the top.


Matt Jones... has probably THE key play of the game on a charge. That's just coachspeak. Matt had a turnover after that key play that lead to a score which cut the lead to 1 with less than a minute left.


I still refuse to blame Matt Jones for the shot clock violation. He was in the corner - can you see the shot clock easily from the corner? Matt had the ball with time to shoot and didn't. He needs to be more aware of the situation. Blame might be too strong a word but Matt did make a bad play.


I think it's been mostly about matchups and foul trouble, as well as the improved play of Matt Jones. Matt offers rebounding and defense, as well as better offense than Amile. That's just not true. Matt has the worst ORtg, eFG% and TS% in league play of any of our regulars. Matt is shooting an abysmal 37.5% from 2 and has had 8 shots blocked. Duke has only had 42 shots blocked in league play.

I think Matt is a good player for us now and I'd imagine by the time his senior year rolls around he will be significantly better. I envision him having a similar career arc as Quinn, something I think most Duke fans would sign up for in a heartbeat.

[CDu]

That's just not true. Matt has the worst ORtg, eFG% and TS% in league play of any of our regulars. Matt is shooting an abysmal 37.5% from 2 and has had 8 shots blocked. Duke has only had 42 shots blocked in league play.

ORtg, eFG%, and TS% are not good measures of a player's offensive skill. Using ORtg and eFG% and TS% as a way to assess a player's offensive ability will lead to the result that Tyler Thornton was a better offensive player than Nolan Smith. Those stats will tend to overrate a player who only takes low-risk shots (i.e., wide open attempts, layups, etc).

I think Matt Jones is more skilled offensively than Jefferson. He is a better shooter, a better ballhandler, and as good or better as a passer. He is not as good an offensive rebounder. But overall, I think he provides more offensive ability than Jefferson.

[vick]

ORtg, eFG%, and TS% are not good measures of a player's offensive skill. Using ORtg and eFG% and TS% as a way to assess a player's offensive ability will lead to the result that Tyler Thornton was a better offensive player than Nolan Smith. Those stats will tend to overrate a player who only takes low-risk shots (i.e., wide open attempts, layups, etc).

Agreed that ORtg is problematic without context, but it's not as if Matt is a much higher usage player than Amile--Matt's usage (per Kenpom) is 16.2% on the season vs. 17.9% for Amile (Matt's is higher during conference play, though). It's a very different story from Tyler, who posted usage rates about as low as possible and still be a viable player.

[FerryFor50]

ORtg, eFG%, and TS% are not good measures of a player's offensive skill. Using ORtg and eFG% and TS% as a way to assess a player's offensive ability will lead to the result that Tyler Thornton was a better offensive player than Nolan Smith. Those stats will tend to overrate a player who only takes low-risk shots (i.e., wide open attempts, layups, etc).

I think Matt Jones is more skilled offensively than Jefferson. He is a better shooter, a better ballhandler, and as good or better as a passer. He is not as good an offensive rebounder. But overall, I think he provides more offensive ability than Jefferson.

Yep this was my point.

However I also agree that Matt will follow a similar career arc to Quinn Cook, but not identical. Cook is a way better ball handler.

[FerryFor50]

I don't think Matt's shot is ugly but more of the old time push shot that was seen in the 50s and 60s. Matter of fact, I would rather see Matt shoot a 3 pointer than see him drive into the lane. He get's too many shots blocked driving to the basket. But what Matt loses on offense, he more than makes up for on defense. Like the charge he took late in the game. The one that Coach K mentioned in post game. GoDuke!

It's ugly by today's standards however. :)

[Saratoga2]

I don't think Matt's shot is ugly but more of the old time push shot that was seen in the 50s and 60s. Matter of fact, I would rather see Matt shoot a 3 pointer than see him drive into the lane. He get's too many shots blocked driving to the basket. But what Matt loses on offense, he more than makes up for on defense. Like the charge he took late in the game. The one that Coach K mentioned in post game. GoDuke!

I have thought of Matt's shot as unconventional, not neecessarily ineffective. Saying that, it could be worked on to be smoother and he needs to get it away more quickly. Matt is not the quickest guy around nor does he jump out of the gym so he will be easier to block than some. He is who he is and does offer some advantages because he is a smart and tough (physical) defender. Let the coach decide how best to use him.

Perhaps Grayson will be a better offensive player than Matt as time moves on. He is fairly quick, handles well, has a quick and smooth release and does have hops. What he seems to lack is experience and confidence. Both players have their places on this team and will help us win games.

[Monmouth77]

I thought the team did a nice job of getting out in transition for several possessions in a row in the second half, and credit that effort to push the pace for the working margin we were able to hang on to at the end. It seems that since the Virginia game, Duke has prioritized getting these easy buckets, and it has made a big difference in game flow. There was a point last night -- maybe with 10 minutes to go -- where if we had gotten a couple more stops and easy baskets, we could have broken FSU. Instead, we missed some open looks and Berwick hit those two deep threes, the crowd got involved, and we were back in a fight.

The last 3 minutes have already been dissected up thread, but I think there were some mistakes of execution that we can clean up, and which may speak to the cumulative toll of a physical game at the end of a 3 day-6 game stretch. Winslow's turnover when we were up 68-62 with 2:00 to go was a 4-5 point swing that made the game much closer than it had to be. Tyus' floater and Matt's charge were clutch.

But to the point of the fast breaks-- I think this aspect of our offense, to go with much improved (if imperfect) defense is really what makes this Duke team a better contender than the one last year. Winslow and T. Jones both have great instincts and passing skills to hit their teammates up the floor on the break, and lots of guys can finish. It is a great jumpstarter in games where we can't find our rhythm in the halfcourt -- like last night.

And one last observation on Jahlil. I thought he did as good a job as he has all year cleaning up misses down low. A couple of his put-backs were pure instinctive plays that did not depend on the guile, footwork and post-play magic we've been privileged to watch so far this year. I thought it was something new and noteworthy.

[sagegrouse]

I have thought of Matt's shot as unconventional, not neecessarily ineffective. Saying that, it could be worked on to be smoother and he needs to get it away more quickly. Matt is not the quickest guy around nor does he jump out of the gym so he will be easier to block than some. He is who he is and does offer some advantages because he is a smart and tough (physical) defender. Let the coach decide how best to use him.

Perhaps Grayson will be a better offensive player than Matt as time moves on. He is fairly quick, handles well, has a quick and smooth release and does have hops. What he seems to lack is experience and confidence. Both players have their places on this team and will help us win games.

Matt Jones has an unusual shot, to say the least. But last year is was downright weird. He had a little flick at the end, and he made few shots. I suspect the coaches tried to change his form from high school and AAU, but this year let him go back to something he was comfortable with.

[Bob Green]

Only thing missing was Jim Thacker.

And the Pilot Life ditty.

[MChambers]

And the Pilot Life ditty.
The Holly Farms Player of the Game! And Bones McKinney: "I'd just throw the ball into the big guy." Which, come to think of it, is similar to many of the comments in this thread.

Ah, nostaglia.

[sagegrouse]

The Holly Farms Player of the Game! And Bones McKinney: "I'd just throw the ball into the big guy." Which, come to think of it, is similar to many of the comments in this thread.

Ah, nostalgia.

Quoting Bones (again) on the Pilot telecast: "I'd just tell ma guards -- this here's my man Lenny Chappell (WF A-A center). If you don't get him the ball, you're gonna be sitting right here next to me on the bench." Could he have been referring to Billy Packer??

[NSDukeFan]

It seemed to me last night that Coach K thought he had to play Jah the whole second half to make up for his limited first half minutes. But Jah was sucking wind half way through the second half and became ineffective. He is a young big man who needs a break now and then. He's not a veteran. Perhaps Coach K wants to teach him to both play without fouling and to play a whole half without a break. But if he is ineffective because he is winded, then that is a mistake on Coach K's part. I'd rather have explosive Jah for 18 minutes in the half and give him a break, especially when Marshall played so well.
Unless he would like to prepare Jahlil to be able to play big minutes and/or overcome fatigue in case it is needed later in the year.

Because it's a low percentage shot that hurts the team. And opposing defenses are begging him to shoot that shot by giving him at least 5 feet of space. Amile went through a series of around 5-6 games where he attempted that shot with mixed/negative results.

Every year on DBR, posters talk about [xxx] player working on a jump shot and potentially using it as a tool come game time. Last year, that someone was Josh Hairston. Two years before that, posters thought MP2 would have a jumper to expand his game (fortunately, MP2 never needed it). Generally, when DBR says, "[big man] worked on his jump shot this past summer" or "[big man] will improve on his mid-range," it only works 1 out of 5 times (okay, that number came out of nowhere. But it's a low number).

Let's face it, Amile won't have a jump shot this year and probably won't have one next year. He may, but the odds are against him. It's a tough skill to learn from scratch.
I don't think the issue is whether Amile takes mid range shots or not, but I like when he takes one every once in awhile, as I also did when Hairston and Lance did (don't tell loran). The bigger issue, in my opinion, is for Amile to look to score and square to the basket to see if there is an opportunity there.

Look, I'm pulling hard for Matt. I thought my post made that clear. The key for me is that Matt, seemingly more so than others, is either fairly hot or fairly cold. And while his percentage on 3's might be a tad better than Justise, that's moot to my bigger point because Winslow is a much more effective slasher. He doesn't get his layups blocked at anywhere near the rate Matt does. And Grayson hasn't played nearly enough for me to even think about comparing his stats to any of the other 7 core guys on the team, so that's also moot in my book.

Bottom line is that every time Matt seems to have a "coming out party" in terms of shooting the ball (like he did against ND), he can turn around and have another game like last night on the offensive end. It's just very frustrating for everyone. More so for him and the team than any one of us, no doubt. I'm just hoping he can figure out a way to be more consistent on the offensive end of the court. That's all. We will need him shooting better if we want to win 3 or 4 in a row in the ACC tournament, much less 6 in a row later in March/April.
All shooters have ups and downs and Matt is no different. He has had a pretty good shooting year so far this year and gas certainly made some big shots for the team. I have not been frustrated by his play at all and have enjoyed watching him become a much bigger contributor in every way this year.

ORtg, eFG%, and TS% are not good measures of a player's offensive skill. Using ORtg and eFG% and TS% as a way to assess a player's offensive ability will lead to the result that Tyler Thornton was a better offensive player than Nolan Smith. Those stats will tend to overrate a player who only takes low-risk shots (i.e., wide open attempts, layups, etc).

I think Matt Jones is more skilled offensively than Jefferson. He is a better shooter, a better ballhandler, and as good or better as a passer. He is not as good an offensive rebounder. But overall, I think he provides more offensive ability than Jefferson.
I think Matt provides more offensive aggressiveness, but I am not sure about offensive ability. Amile has shown a real nice touch around the basket and some nice moves and skills occasionally when he has looked to score. I might just be too much of an Amile fan as I love the various things (offensive rebounding, crafty baseline and interior scoring, generally dependable ball handling/ passing on offense, communication, solid one on one defense and shot challenging ability on defense) he can provide when he is at his best.

[azzefkram]

ORtg, eFG%, and TS% are not good measures of a player's offensive skill. Using ORtg and eFG% and TS% as a way to assess a player's offensive ability will lead to the result that Tyler Thornton was a better offensive player than Nolan Smith. Those stats will tend to overrate a player who only takes low-risk shots (i.e., wide open attempts, layups, etc).

I think for players of similar usage it is an adequate shorthand. I also don't have an issue with players taking low-risk shots since they tend to be good shots.


I think Matt Jones is more skilled offensively than Jefferson. He is a better shooter, a better ballhandler, and as good or better as a passer. He is not as good an offensive rebounder. But overall, I think he provides more offensive ability than Jefferson.

Matt has a more diverse repertoire but that doesn't necessarily make it better (see Matt's 2P%). I think they are a push as passers, though Matt seems to be getting better as the season moves on. Matt may be a better ballhandler but not by much and I sort of hope either of them passes to Quinn or Tyus when they are handling the ball.

At the end of the day, I do think we are performing a bit of an apples and oranges comparison since Matt is a wing and Amile a post player. I think they are both good players on either side of the ball.

[Neals384]

Coach K often uses timeouts after scores to set up our defense and prepare our team for big stops. Has been doing it for as long as I can remember.

OK, so a couple of posters disagreed with my view that calling timeout when you are leading and on a mini-run is both rare and unwise. Fortunately we can go back to the game logs to check the facts on this. I reviewed the 2nd half game logs for 20 games this season, excluding only the four non-conference blowouts. For each game, I logged every timeout called by Duke, except for timeouts in the final 2 minutes of the game (where coaching strategy changes) and except for timeouts where Duke was trailing (again, different coaching strategy). 5 of the 20 games (Elon, NCState, Miami, St. John's, UVA) had no qualifying timeouts.

There were 22 timeouts called in the 15 games. 16 of these followed opponent's mini-runs that cut into Duke's lead (average run 5-1). I'd call these normal "let's stem the tide" timeouts. 2 timeouts were early in the second half where opponents cut into Duke's lead by just one. I'd call these "did you listen to my halftime talk" timeouts. The other four followed Duke runs - so let me retract my claim that these timeouts are rare. Let's look at each of these:

1) 6:00 left vs. Pitt. Tyus hit a 3 ptr to extend the lead to 15, and Duke called timeout. (3-0 run).

2) 4:20 left vs. Notre Dame. Jah made two consecutive layups and Duke called timeout. (4-0 run). If the idea was to set the D, it didn't work because the irish made a layup on the next possession and finished the game on a 10-4 run.

3) 4:13 left vs. GATech. (8-3 run).

4) 6:49 left vs. Fla St (6-2 run). Again, if the idea was to set the D it didn't work because Amile, who checked in during the timeout, fouled a 3 pt shooter on the next possession.

While can can never know what might have happened if Coach had let the guys play while things were going well, I'm going to go ahead and stand by my claim that the Fla St timeout was a blunder, and the Notre Dame one as well.

Here's the list of all 22 timeouts:



Game
TimeLeft
Run


MState
17:45
4-3 State


Temple
06:15
4-0 Temple


Stanford
09:56
5-0 Stanford


Stanford
02:03
5-0 Stanford


Army
05:24
5-2 Army


Wisconsin
05:25
7-3 Wisc


UConn
05:28
5-1 Uconn


Toledo
06:38
5-2 Toledo


BC
17:55
5-4 BC


Wake
12:31
5-0 Wake


Wake
07:31
4-0 Wake


Louisville
06:31
5-2 Lville


Pitt
18:05
5-0 Pitt


Pitt
06:00
3-0 Duke


Pitt
03:40
4-1 Pitt


NDame
09:31
6-0 Irish


NDame
07:54
2-0 Irish


NDame
04:20
4-0 Duke


GATech
04:14
8-3 Duke


NDame2
13:31
12-4 Irish


FlaSt
09:27
8-1 FlaSt


FlaSt
06:49
6-2 Duke




3)

[ncexnyc]

I watched the game after work last night and I must say that was a very interesting game.

I’m reading a number of posts bashing one player or another and I honestly don’t think anyone on the team played a perfect game. To be honest, I’m not sure why some people thought this would be an easy game to begin with.

As was mentioned in the pre-game thread, this had all the markings of a classic trap game. Huge emotional win on Saturday followed by a quick turnaround to sunny Florida.
I thought Quinn was clearly the MotM and he came closest to having a perfect game. Tyus also had an excellent game, but I must admit I’m getting a bit annoying with his acting. He’s constantly trying to draw a foul while bringing the ball up the court and if that isn’t an act then he seriously better not be thinking about going to the NBA after this season as grown men will knock him silly.

It would appear that Matt has inherited Tyler’s title as the most polarizing Duke player. Let’s just call him a streaky shooter and leave it at that. He plays tough aggressive defense and he isn’t shy about taking the ball to the rack. Unfortunately, he does get blocked quite a bit and maybe it’s because he’s too under control and by that I mean he appears to measure his approach to the basket and he seems to slow down for some reason.

Jah went up against 3 seven footers and 2 of them have bonafide NBA ready bodies. I don’t get all the crying about him being abused. He was playing against men and they played hard, physical basketball against him the same type we got from Zoubs his senior season. I do have to agree with some posters in reference to the fouls he gives. I hate those pansy fouls where he barely touches a guy. Maybe if he laid some wood of his own he get a little more respect.

Justise had himself an interesting game. He was just as aggressive last night as he was on Saturday afternoon, but he just couldn’t seem to finish. I’ll chalk that up to FSU’s size. He played solid D and he rebounded, but those two TO’s at the end of the game were just terrible.

MP3 continues to do well with the minutes he gets. There is a whole different vibe to the team on both the defensive and offensive end of the court when he’s in the game. Defensively the team seems to amp things up and offensively they appear to be more freewheeling, as they run with two PG’s and two slashers.

Amile had a very quiet game. Getting popped in the eye surely didn’t help him and FSU’s size negated what he does best for us.

Young Mr. Allen continues to tease us with his potential. I believe if he continues to get steady minutes for the rest of the season, that come March he will be a solid contributor to this team.

[Kfanarmy]

Interesting point, that the refs may feel (consciously or otherwise) that the really great players don't need help. But....that a hard-working "everyman" like Tyler Hansbrough is allowed to travel and also get the calls when he bangs into defenders. Okay, I know we're Duke fans here, but the favorable treatment that Hansbrough got seemed different than for any other ACC player in my memory.

Hansbrough LOOKED like he was getting fouled. He flailed his hands and stumbled all over the court. If he played in college today, the refs would be reviewing plays every 5 minutes to see if he'd been hit in the head. As hard as he worked, his awkward appearance was often his best asset.

[vick]

I don't think the issue is whether Amile takes mid range shots or not, but I like when he takes one every once in awhile, as I also did when Hairston and Lance did (don't tell loran). The bigger issue, in my opinion, is for Amile to look to score and square to the basket to see if there is an opportunity there.

IIRC, the big frustration with Hairston wasn't that he took jumpers (though he wasn't great at them), it's that he took long two point jumpers, often just a foot or two inside the line. 19 footers aren't great value shots for Stephen Curry, let alone Hairston. I'd love for Amile to have a solid 13-16 footer though.

[NSDukeFan]

IIRC, the big frustration with Hairston wasn't that he took jumpers (though he wasn't great at them), it's that he took long two point jumpers, often just a foot or two inside the line. 19 footers aren't great value shots for Stephen Curry, let alone Hairston. I'd love for Amile to have a solid 13-16 footer though.

True enough. I would prefer the 13-17 foot jumpers every once in awhile over the 19-20 foot ones.

[jimsumner]

I I envision him having a similar career arc as Quinn, something I think most Duke fans would sign up for in a heartbeat.

Cook was third-team All-ACC as a sophomore, so I think that ship has sailed. I'd love it if a senior Matt Jones is as good as a sophomore Cook.

Speaking of Bones McKinney, he was fond of saying that it was better for a big man to expect the ball and be disappointed then not expect the ball and be surprised.

Bones was great.

[gep]

Speaking of Bones McKinney, he was fond of saying that it was better for a big man to expect the ball and be disappointed then not expect the ball and be surprised.

Bones was great.

I think Marshall has moved from "not expect" to "expect". Probably why he's now starting to catch the pass :cool:

[AZLA]

Something I noticed last night(surprise) was that MPIII caught the basketball without fumbling it. Both on rebounds and passes. One or two passes were behind the big guy and he just snatched the ball out of the air like it was a tennis ball. I'm hoping that the games are slowing down for MPIII as he can be a great asset and he was last night. What a great first half for the big man. I would hope he get's the 10-15 minutes he deserves. His defense has really improved. GoDuke!

Great point. I had the same reaction when I saw him grab a rebound, throw elbows, and protect the ball like a honey badger. I believe I yelled his inner monologue at the TV -- "Get off me, this ball is my ball, I'm an Army soldier -- don't bleep with me!!!"

[jv001]

Cook was third-team All-ACC as a sophomore, so I think that ship has sailed. I'd love it if a senior Matt Jones is as good as a sophomore Cook.

Speaking of Bones McKinney, he was fond of saying that it was better for a big man to expect the ball and be disappointed then not expect the ball and be surprised.

Bones was great.

I was blessed to get to know Bones a little bit during the old Carolina Cougar days. He was a trip. Funny as all get out. He had a sense of humor that was not matched by many. God rest his soul. GoDuke!

[Troublemaker]

Matt <snip> has had 8 shots blocked. Duke has only had 42 shots blocked in league play.

Question: where do you go to get the numbers for shots blocked assigned to individual offensive players?

Did you just look through the play-by-play? yourself Or is there a site with this information?

Thanks in advance!

[_Gary]

Hansbrough LOOKED like he was getting fouled. He flailed his hands and stumbled all over the court. If he played in college today, the refs would be reviewing plays every 5 minutes to see if he'd been hit in the head. As hard as he worked, his awkward appearance was often his best asset.

ROTFL. That's hilarious, in large measure because it's so true. I can just see the officials stopping play and going over the monitor, again and again, to see if a flagrant 1 or flagrant 2 had occurred after a "foul" was committed on Hansblahblah. He really was the master of the flailing hands, feet and head.

[azzefkram]

Question: where do you go to get the numbers for shots blocked assigned to individual offensive players?

Did you just look through the play-by-play? yourself Or is there a site with this information?

Thanks in advance!

Google was fruitless for me but I must admit my kung fu is not strong. I went through the play-by-play. I didn't track it but Amile's and Justise's names seemed to appear quite frequently as well.