This Week in the ACC: 2/9-2/15

[pfrduke]

Virginia got through its toughest stretch of the season and sits 2 games clear of the field without another game against a team in the top 5 of the conference until the regular season finale at Louisville (which, if Saturday's matchup was any guide, will not be an aesthetically pleasing affair). Even without Justin Anderson for a stretch, they look very well positioned to ride out the season in the conference's #1 spot. Behind them is a little more interesting, with 4 teams tied for second in the loss column (ND and UNC do have extra wins to push them out of the tie overall). No games among that group this week, and only three total (the two Duke-UNC matches and ND-Louisville in the last week of the season) the rest of the way (although Louisville also has to deal with that UVA game), so the real key for those teams is to keep pace with each other by not dropping other games they should win - the top 5 teams in the ACC will be favorites in each of their remaining games that aren't against each other. Duke has the inside shot at the #2 seed, as it will win any tiebreaker among 3-loss teams. Lots of basketball to be played between now and then, though.

Monday

[128]Florida State hosts [8]Duke (7:00, ESPN)
[172]Virginia Tech hosts [69]Georgia Tech (9:00, ESPNU) - no, I can't explain either why Virginia Tech gets national TV games seemingly every week.

Tuesday has what could be a tricky game for the Irish. Clemson is sitting at a somewhat surprising 6-5 and trips to Littlejohn have a tendency to go sideways for visiting teams.

[85]Clemson hosts [17]Notre Dame (7:00, ESPN2)

Wednesday has what likely will be UVA's toughest test before the finale at Louisville. State simply needs wins if it wants to stay in the tournament hunt. Of course, this game isn't nationally televised but GT-VT is. Sigh.

[123]Boston College hosts [80]Syracuse (7:00, ESPN2)
[115]Wake Forest hosts [62]Miami (7:00, ESPN3)
[11]Louisville hosts [95]Pittsburgh (8:00, ESPN3)
[57]NC State hosts [2]Virginia (8:00, ESPN3)

Thursday is dark

Friday is dark

Saturday starts the brutal stretch of Syracuse's schedule - their final 7 games are Duke, Louisville, Pitt, @ND, @Duke, UVA, @NCSU. At least the first three are at home, but that is rough. NC State gets another shot at a marquee win - this one on the road at the Cardinals.

[85]Clemson hosts [172]Virginia Tech (12:00, ESPN3)
[95]Pittsburgh hosts [13]North Carolina (12:00, ESPN3)
[69]Georgia Tech hosts [128]Florida State (2:30, ESPN3)
[2]Virginia hosts [115]Wake Forest (2:30, ESPN3)
[11]Louisville hosts [57]NC State (4:00, ESPN)
[80]Syracuse hosts [8]Duke (6:00, ESPN)

Sunday

[123]Boston College hosts [62]Miami (6:30, ESPNU)

ACC Non-Conference Record: 147-45
ACC Record vs. BCS: 27-26

[Olympic Fan]

Yet ANOTHER soul-crushing loss for Georgia Tech Monday night.

The Jackets led Virginia Tech in Blacksburg for almost the entire second half, but with 16 seconds left, the Hokies hit a three to go up by one. Marcus Georges-Hunt forces a shot at the other end (driving into traffic) ... after a foul and 1-2 FTs by the Hokies to make it a 2-point game with 1.8 left, Georgia Tech tries to run a tip play to get Georges-Hunt the game-winning 3. His shot was late (it rimmed out anyway).

Unbelievable how many close games the Jackets have lost this season.

PS I know Navy Blue is a secondary color for Georgia Tech, but the Blue jerseys they wore tonight looked suspicious like the Duke-blue jerseys that Butch Davis loved when he was at UNC.

[Duvall]

Yet ANOTHER soul-crushing loss for Georgia Tech Monday night.

The Jackets led Virginia Tech in Blacksburg for almost the entire second half, but with 16 seconds left, the Hokies hit a three to go up by one. Marcus Georges-Hunt forces a shot at the other end (driving into traffic) ... after a foul and 1-2 FTs by the Hokies to make it a 2-point game with 1.8 left, Georgia Tech tries to run a tip play to get Georges-Hunt the game-winning 3. His shot was late (it rimmed out anyway).

Unbelievable how many close games the Jackets have lost this season.

PS I know Navy Blue is a secondary color for Georgia Tech, but the Blue jerseys they wore tonight looked suspicious like the Duke-blue jerseys that Butch Davis loved when he was at UNC.

The Georges-Hunt shot was *not* late - the clock started early, well before the ball was touched.

Heckuva job, Clougherty.

[pfrduke]

Yet ANOTHER soul-crushing loss for Georgia Tech Monday night.

The Jackets led Virginia Tech in Blacksburg for almost the entire second half, but with 16 seconds left, the Hokies hit a three to go up by one. Marcus Georges-Hunt forces a shot at the other end (driving into traffic) ... after a foul and 1-2 FTs by the Hokies to make it a 2-point game with 1.8 left, Georgia Tech tries to run a tip play to get Georges-Hunt the game-winning 3. His shot was late (it rimmed out anyway).

Unbelievable how many close games the Jackets have lost this season.

PS I know Navy Blue is a secondary color for Georgia Tech, but the Blue jerseys they wore tonight looked suspicious like the Duke-blue jerseys that Butch Davis loved when he was at UNC.

Perhaps more to the point, Virginia Tech wins now lead Virginia losses 2-1.

[W&LHoo]

Perhaps more to the point, Virginia Tech wins now lead Virginia losses 2-1.

This is the most delightful board meme I've ever come across. Somehow, even when so piteously down, I can't quite feel sorry for the hokies.

[Wander]

Not ACC, but if Kentucky's going to lose a game in the regular season, it's going to be tonight at LSU.

[Olympic Fan]

The Georges-Hunt shot was *not* late - the clock started early, well before the ball was touched.

Heckuva job, Clougherty.

You might be right ... but I trust that if the shot had gone it, it would have been reviewed and even if initially ruled too late, they would have measured it correctly.

The clock operator is employed by the school and is thus not Clougherty's responsibility.

[devildeac]

This is the most delightful board meme I've ever come across. Somehow, even when so piteously down, I can't quite feel sorry for the hokies.

Kinda like some/most of us here when 8-20 is fondly remembered ;).

[DarkstarWahoo]

Can't let discussion of the battle of the Techs end without a shoutout to Buzz's sweater:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9c7O2WIgAAtQLD.jpg:large

[brevity]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9c7O2WIgAAtQLD.jpg:large

Referee: "I'm going to let you off with a warning. That sweater is really more of a party foul."

[FerryFor50]

Not ACC, but if Kentucky's going to lose a game in the regular season, it's going to be tonight at LSU.

If Kentucky would lose a game this season it likely won't be the one that everyone expects them to possibly lose. Especially not one as ho-hum as LSU. I'd expect it to be a team they took lightly.

I think Kentucky will be ready and win easily.

[Olympic Fan]

I think it's funny that they keep touting these games as potential losses. First Georgia, then Florida and now LSU.

I laugh because Florida is a team that lost to Miami at home and on the road to FSU (AFTER FSU has lost Aaron Thomas)

Georgia lost 80-73 to Georgia Tech

And LSU lost to Clemson on a neutral court, less than a week after Clemson lost back-to-back home games with Winthrop and Gardner Webb.

Arkansas, the only other ranked SEC team, also lost to Clemson.

Obviously, those mid-level ACC teams can be dangerous -- we also lost at home to Miami and had to fight for our lives at FSU.

Still, it's a measure of the weakness of the SEC that these are the TOUGHEST conference games the 'Cats play.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I recently posted historical point differential for ACC seasons going back to 2001. Now I'm kind of obsessed with where this year's number will end up. So, I'll try to update this each week. Last posting, the avg point differential in ACC games played was 9.02 (62 games played). Now as of 2/9/15, creeping lower...



ACC Season
Games Played
Avg Differential


2001
72.00
15.14


2002
72.00
15.44


2003
72.00
11.25


2004
72.00
10.06


2005
88.00
11.57


2006
96.00
9.48


2007
96.00
11.09


2008
96.00
10.09


2009
96.00
10.15


2010
96.00
10.24


2011
96.00
11.67


2012
96.00
10.78


2013
108.00
10.88


2014
135.00
10.29


2015*
79.00
8.79



*Thru 2/9/15

[Olympic Fan]

I recently posted historical point differential for ACC seasons going back to 2001. Now I'm kind of obsessed with where this year's number will end up. So, I'll try to update this each week. Last posting, the avg point differential in ACC games played was 9.02 (62 games played). Now as of 2/9/15, creeping lower...



ACC Season
Games Played
Avg Differential


2001
72.00
15.14


2002
72.00
15.44


2003
72.00
11.25


2004
72.00
10.06


2005
88.00
11.57


2006
96.00
9.48


2007
96.00
11.09


2008
96.00
10.09


2009
96.00
10.15


2010
96.00
10.24


2011
96.00
11.67


2012
96.00
10.78


2013
108.00
10.88


2014
135.00
10.29


2015*
79.00
8.79



*Thru 2/9/15

I got the same graph from Rob Daniels, a former sports writer from Charlottesville and Greensboro, who does some stat work for the ACC. His numbers agree with yours -- furthermore, his graph goes back to the first ACC season in 1954.

The current average margin is the lowest since 1990 (when it was 8.714). It's only been under 9.0 four times in history -- the lowest was 1976, when it was 7.286.

Duke's 30-point win over Notre Dame didn't help things, but Monday night's two games (a 3-point Duke win and a 2-point VPI win) certainly did.

[freshmanjs]

I laugh because Florida is a team that lost to Miami at home and on the road to FSU (AFTER FSU has lost Aaron Thomas)


you could have very nearly said the same about Duke (and our loss to Miami was much worse than Florida's). so, not sure how this statement implies that Florida is a laugher (and it was a very competitive game).

[Wander]

If Kentucky would lose a game this season it likely won't be the one that everyone expects them to possibly lose. Especially not one as ho-hum as LSU. I'd expect it to be a team they took lightly.

I think Kentucky will be ready and win easily.

You might be right. I just think Kentucky has already escaped the type of "surprise losses" you're talking about early in the season against Ole Miss and Texas A&M. I'm not touting LSU as a great team. They may not even be a tournament team. But they are one of the few SEC opponents that actually has a little bit of talent in Martin and Mickey such that Kentucky can't just roll over them without really trying. Combined with the quick turnaround from a big road game Saturday night, and it's about as much as you can realistically ask for in an SEC with an unbalanced schedule (no road game at Arkansas) a terrible second tier.

[Duvall]

Congratulations to Notre Dame and Kentucky for their wins tonight.

[gumbomoop]

Very much in Duke's interest for Clemson to defeat ND tonight in Littlejohn. Even if ND loses, they have but one really tough game in their final 5, and so are still a pretty good bet to go 13-5, and get an ACCT bye. If they win tonight, ND is likely to finish at 14-4, possibly tied with or ahead of Duke.

If Clemson wins, they look to go 10-8, maybe 11-7, so a win for them is no likely threat to Duke's prospects for a bye.

At half, it's Clemson 31-29. Grant hit a 3 at the buzzer. Bummer. Go Tigers.

[Duvall]

Moving screens are...illegal? That doesn't seem right after last night.

[OldPhiKap]

Moving screens are...illegal? That doesn't seem right after last night.

Hell, last night was a mugging. I bet we had some sore folks on the plane last night.

[Duvall]

Clemson Tigers doing Clemson Tiger things right now.

[NSDukeFan]

Clemson Tigers doing Clemson Tiger things right now.

Are they losing in Chapel Hill?

[Troublemaker]

If they win tonight, ND is likely to finish at 14-4, possibly tied with or ahead of Duke.

ND won, but I think 13-5 is still more likely for them. It's true, the Irish will be the favorites against everyone remaining on their schedule except for Louisville, but they just appear to me to be a team whose play has degraded recently. I think they'll get upset in one of those games and also lose to Louisville.

[pfrduke]

ND won, but I think 13-5 is still more likely for them. It's true, the Irish will be the favorites against everyone remaining on their schedule except for Louisville, but they just appear to me to be a team whose play has degraded recently. I think they'll get upset in one of those games and also lose to Louisville.

Notre Dame is a little bit like the anti-Georgia Tech in conference play this year. They have two big wins (FSU, Virginia Tech) but otherwise their victories have come by 7 (in 2OT), 1, 3, 5, 3 (in OT), 4, 8, and 2 - meaning 8 of their wins have come by a grand total of 33 points.

[gumbomoop]

ND won, but I think 13-5 is still more likely for them. It's true, the Irish will be the favorites against everyone remaining on their schedule except for Louisville, but they just appear to me to be a team whose play has degraded recently. I think they'll get upset in one of those games and also lose to Louisville.

I'll admit I haven't closely followed ND's most recent games other than v. Duke. Was glad Pitt beat them, but didn't see any of it. Saw some of tonight's game.

But just looking at schedules, I'd say, colloquially, that ND is a better bet to get to 14-4 than is Duke. Maybe Duke will end up 15-3 and ND 13-5. Heels could get to 14-4, too. Next big games are Sat, Duke @ 'Cuse, UNC @ Pitt. Maybe Pitt will get momentum with a win tomorrow eve @ UL. That would shock me, though.

[uh_no]

goooooo wolfies!

[Troublemaker]

10-4 NCSU early. They're just going to tease us all night before losing, aren't they?

[Duvall]

State bricking wide-open 3s against UVa?

Yep.

[duketaylor]

UVA and State should be a very close, if not pretty game.
VCU currently struggling w LaSalle (not ACC, I know but interesting).

[Duvall]

If you enjoy the sound of a ball clanging off of a rim, UVA-NC State is the game for you.

[FerryFor50]

State bricking wide-open 3s against UVa?

Yep.

Weird. Thought Duke was the only team that didn't guard the perimeter...

Also thought UVA guarded everyone

[dukelifer]

10-4 NCSU early. They're just going to tease us all night before losing, aren't they?

State leads at the half

[duketaylor]

31% vs. 33% from the field so far, real pretty;)

[Ultrarunner]

10-4 NCSU early. They're just going to tease us all night before losing, aren't they?

Yes. Next question, please. :)

[mr. synellinden]

First to 40 wins. Also, my friend Lou is ill.

[Duvall]

Thanks for playing, State.

[devildeac]

Quite a game by Gbinije tonight:

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400587976

[FerryFor50]

Horribly officiated sequence in NCSU game.

Terrible flagrant awarded after flop by Nolte. Nolte goes out "injured" and Brogden comes off the bench to shoot FTs. Nolte comes back in the next dead ball. Weak sauce.

[devildeac]

Horribly officiated sequence in NCSU game.

Terrible flagrant awarded after flop by Nolte. Nolte goes out "injured" and Brogden comes off the bench to shoot FTs. Nolte comes back in the next dead ball. Weak sauce.

Old c*rolina trick + acc officials. State fans will scream about that one.

Did they even bother to review it?

[FerryFor50]

Old c*rolina trick + acc officials. State fans will scream about that one.

Did they even bother to review it?

Yea called it after the review.

Nolte saw Martin the whole way and made sure to stand there after a made basket. Martin ran into him and Nolte flopped. No foul call was made on the play yet it got called a flagrant.

[Duvall]

And that play, right there, is why you're NC State. It's not Karl Hess, or UNC cheating. It's plays like that.

[FerryFor50]

And that play, right there, is why you're NC State. It's not Karl Hess, or UNC cheating. It's plays like that.

Yep. Totally blew it down the stretch.

[gumbomoop]

State is going to need to go 5-1 in their final 6 games. Then win at least 2 in ACCT. Then, at best, they're still on bubble.

Of those final 6, 4 are on road. They gotta win either @ UL or @ UNC. Is it absolutely crazy to think they might play well this time v. UNC?

[Duvall]

State is going to need to go 5-1 in their final 6 games. Then win at least 2 in ACCT. Then, at best, they're still on bubble.

Of those final 6, 4 are on road. They gotta win either @ UL or @ UNC. Is it absolutely crazy to think they might play well this time v. UNC?

That's the definition of insanity.

[devildeac]

State is going to need to go 5-1 in their final 6 games. Then win at least 2 in ACCT. Then, at best, they're still on bubble.

Of those final 6, 4 are on road. They gotta win either @ UL or @ UNC. Is it absolutely crazy to think they might play well this time v. UNC?

At unc? Yea, riiiight.

(But I'd be delighted to be proven wrong:rolleyes:.)

[gumbomoop]

That's the definition of insanity.

Yes, you're right, I'm way off in some strange fantasy land.

[CDu]

This is looking very much like a 5-bid league. Good work Miami and State.

[devildeac]

This is looking very much like a 5-bid league. Good work Miami and State.

But, but, but, but, "we beat Duke.":rolleyes:

[mykeuva]

Yea called it after the review.

Nolte saw Martin the whole way and made sure to stand there after a made basket. Martin ran into him and Nolte flopped. No foul call was made on the play yet it got called a flagrant.

What does this mean:

"....and made sure to stand there after a made basket...."

A player doesn't have to move to let the opponent by him. If a player stands there and the opponent runs through him, it's not a foul on the guy standing there. (and also the color guy said from an angle there was a little elbow involved)

[FerryFor50]

What does this mean:

"....and made sure to stand there after a made basket...."

A player doesn't have to move to let the opponent by him. If a player stands there and the opponent runs through him, it's not a foul on the guy standing there. (and also the color guy said from an angle there was a little elbow involved)

There was no elbow.

And no regular foul was called.

I know a player doesn't have to move. But he also doesn't have to purposely stand in the way with the intent to flop.

It was a terrible flagrant call. It might have been a foul but that wasn't called on the floor and cannot be called after review.

[Duvall]

What does this mean:

"....and made sure to stand there after a made basket...."

A player doesn't have to move to let the opponent by him. If a player stands there and the opponent runs through him, it's not a foul on the guy standing there. (and also the color guy said from an angle there was a little elbow involved)

Looks like simulation to me. Didn't affect the outcome though. (https://vine.co/v/OPWiHbx3Qn7)

[FerryFor50]

Looks like simulation to me. Didn't affect the outcome though. (https://vine.co/v/OPWiHbx3Qn7)

I'd disagree a bit on it not affecting the outcome.

State had just dunked and had some momentum and UVA got 2 shots and the ball.

Wasn't THE reason, but definitely was a big play.

[W&LHoo]

There was no elbow.

And no regular foul was called.

I know a player doesn't have to move. But he also doesn't have to purposely stand in the way with the intent to flop.

It was a terrible flagrant call. It might have been a foul but that wasn't called on the floor and cannot be called after review.

Nolte turned around and looked at the play. I tend to agree that the correct call was probably a regular foul instead of a flagrant, but Nolte wasn't trying to get a flop in the middle of the opposing team's half instead of getting back on defense. Bennett would murder him for trying something like that.

He paused and turned and got hit square in the chest - hard - by a sprinting NC State player who should have gone around him. He got the wind knocked out of him and the refs decided to make it a flagrant because it was such a visible foul.

[tbyers11]

Nolte turned around and looked at the play. I tend to agree that the correct call was probably a regular foul instead of a flagrant, but Nolte wasn't trying to get a flop in the middle of the opposing team's half instead of getting back on defense. Bennett would murder him for trying something like that.

He paused and turned and got hit square in the chest - hard - by a sprinting NC State player who should have gone around him. He got the wind knocked out of him and the refs decided to make it a flagrant because it was such a visible foul.

He didn't have to get back on defense. NCST had just scored. Martin turned around in his haste to get back on D and ran into Nolte. IMO, Nolte then flopped a bit. There was some contact but not enough to cause the reaction. The key part in my mind was that it appeared to be incidental contact by both players. Certainly nothing intentional or violent enough by Martin to warrant a flagrant foul. I thought it was serious over-reffing by the crew. No advantage gained or lost by either team due to the contact. Get up off the floor and play on.

[DarkstarWahoo]

He didn't have to get back on defense. NCST had just scored. Martin turned around in his haste to get back on D and ran into Nolte. IMO, Nolte then flopped a bit. There was some contact but not enough to cause the reaction. The key part in my mind was that it appeared to be incidental contact by both players. Certainly nothing intentional or violent enough by Martin to warrant a flagrant foul. I thought it was serious over-reffing by the crew. No advantage gained or lost by either team due to the contact. Get up off the floor and play on.

Looked to my (biased) eyes like Martin changed his path to run into Nolte, and he definitely extended his arm. Either way, I think it's cancelled out by the fact that three of Brogdon's four fouls were garbage.

[BobBender]

Yea called it after the review.

Nolte saw Martin the whole way and made sure to stand there after a made basket. Martin ran into him and Nolte flopped. No foul call was made on the play yet it got called a flagrant.

what's the proverb about living in a glass house? This is not a forum where I expect us to be calling out opponent's flops. Whether it was a flop or not, Martin ran right through Nolte.

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

Nolte def saw him coming and even braced himself for the impact and then he sold it. That being said still a bonehead play by the State player who also saw Nolte, he could have easily avoided him. So even though he flopped, he sold it perfectly and made a good play.

[FerryFor50]

what's the proverb about living in a glass house? This is not a forum where I expect us to be calling out opponent's flops. Whether it was a flop or not, Martin ran right through Nolte.

My point wasn't that Nolte flopped (which I dont like from ANY player) but that the refs went to video and even though it was an obvious flop they rewarded it.

[JasonEvans]

That being said still a bonehead play by the State player who also saw Nolte, he could have easily avoided him.

Ding ding ding!

So, here is video of it. Cue the video in to about the 1:10 mark to see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkywaZ7lVqg

This was not a case of a guy turning around and suddenly running into someone. Martin has his head up and, to me, almost appeared to target Nolte. It is impossible to imagine that Martin did not see Nolte standing there. Martin makes no effort, zero, to avoid Nolte. It was a boneheaded play and, whether you think Nolte sold it a bit or not, Martin clearly makes intentional contact in a pretty darn aggressive fashion. To me it is an obvious call for the refs and I think a flagrant is warranted because of the maliciousness and forethought of the act.

And, by the way, I think Gottfried was gutless to defend Martin after the game. He should have said it like it is and admitted that Martin deserved what he got for a punk/thug kind of move.

-Jason "so, so stupid by State... goodbye NCAA bid" Evans

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

Ding ding ding!



This was not a case of a guy turning around and suddenly running into someone. Martin has his head up and, to me, almost appeared to target Nolte. It is impossible to imagine that Martin did not see Nolte standing there. Martin makes no effort, zero, to avoid Nolte. It was a boneheaded play and, whether you think Nolte sold it a bit or not, Martin clearly makes intentional contact in a pretty darn aggressive fashion. To me it is an obvious call for the refs and I think a flagrant is warranted because of the maliciousness and forethought of the act.

And, by the way, I think Gottfried was gutless to defend Martin after the game. He should have said it like it is and admitted that Martin deserved what he got for a punk/thug kind of move.

-Jason "so, so stupid by State... goodbye NCAA bid" Evans

Maybe Gottfried can convince the rest of the teams on states schedule to wear Duke Jerseys?

I guarantee if NC St and MIAMI find a way to be on the bubble, they will say... well I know we had a terrible season but hey "we beat Duke" Que Seth Greenburg in the studio "Thats right, beating Duke is the only qualification needed to get into the Tournament. Once you beat Duke, you don't have to play anymore. Also bonus points if you cry afterwards with your family at mid court."

[FerryFor50]

Ding ding ding!

So, here is video of it. Cue the video in to about the 1:10 mark to see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkywaZ7lVqg

This was not a case of a guy turning around and suddenly running into someone. Martin has his head up and, to me, almost appeared to target Nolte. It is impossible to imagine that Martin did not see Nolte standing there. Martin makes no effort, zero, to avoid Nolte. It was a boneheaded play and, whether you think Nolte sold it a bit or not, Martin clearly makes intentional contact in a pretty darn aggressive fashion. To me it is an obvious call for the refs and I think a flagrant is warranted because of the maliciousness and forethought of the act.

And, by the way, I think Gottfried was gutless to defend Martin after the game. He should have said it like it is and admitted that Martin deserved what he got for a punk/thug kind of move.

-Jason "so, so stupid by State... goodbye NCAA bid" Evans

I disagree. You can see Martin dip his shoulder *away* from Nolte to try to avoid him at least a little.

I don't think Martin was trying to run through Nolte, but I do think Martin was annoyed that Nolte made no effort to get out of the way to avoid contact.

[W&LHoo]

He didn't have to get back on defense. NCST had just scored. Martin turned around in his haste to get back on D and ran into Nolte. IMO, Nolte then flopped a bit. There was some contact but not enough to cause the reaction. The key part in my mind was that it appeared to be incidental contact by both players. Certainly nothing intentional or violent enough by Martin to warrant a flagrant foul. I thought it was serious over-reffing by the crew. No advantage gained or lost by either team due to the contact. Get up off the floor and play on.

You're correct, I was misremembering. I expect my suspension from NBC news shortly.

Regardless, the video posted above pretty clearly shows the NC State player sees Nolte and puts his shoulder into him. If Nolte sold it a bit on the ground, I'm willing to believe that, though I could also impinge he genuinely got he wind knocked out of him, which is a terrible feeling and really does require a little while to recover. It's on the border between flagrant and just a regular foul, but I'm not losing any sleep over it. I imagine the wolf pack boards are still fuming.

[FerryFor50]

You're correct, I was misremembering. I expect my suspension from NBC news shortly.

Regardless, the video posted above pretty clearly shows the NC State player sees Nolte and puts his shoulder into him. If Nolte sold it a bit on the ground, I'm willing to believe that, though I could also impinge he genuinely got he wind knocked out of him, which is a terrible feeling and really does require a little while to recover. It's on the border between flagrant and just a regular foul, but I'm not losing any sleep over it. I imagine the wolf pack boards are still fuming.

If anything, Nolte injured his back by flopping so hard, as it was his lower back he was holding on the way to the bench.

I think if it was borderline, it was bordering more toward regular foul. If they had called a foul, I wouldn't have had much issue with it. But not calling one, reviewing it and calling it a flagrant felt like an admission that they screwed up and rewarded UVA with more than they should have gotten.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Ding ding ding!

So, here is video of it. Cue the video in to about the 1:10 mark to see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkywaZ7lVqg

This was not a case of a guy turning around and suddenly running into someone. Martin has his head up and, to me, almost appeared to target Nolte. It is impossible to imagine that Martin did not see Nolte standing there. Martin makes no effort, zero, to avoid Nolte. It was a boneheaded play and, whether you think Nolte sold it a bit or not, Martin clearly makes intentional contact in a pretty darn aggressive fashion. To me it is an obvious call for the refs and I think a flagrant is warranted because of the maliciousness and forethought of the act.

And, by the way, I think Gottfried was gutless to defend Martin after the game. He should have said it like it is and admitted that Martin deserved what he got for a punk/thug kind of move.

-Jason "so, so stupid by State... goodbye NCAA bid" Evans

Completely agree with you, Jason. That was a good call on the refs. Definitely blatant. Head up, going full speed, made no effort to get out of the way. Of course UVa sold it, because that's the right thing to do. Dumb foul on State.

[DarkstarWahoo]

If anything, Nolte injured his back by flopping so hard, as it was his lower back he was holding on the way to the bench.

I think if it was borderline, it was bordering more toward regular foul. If they had called a foul, I wouldn't have had much issue with it. But not calling one, reviewing it and calling it a flagrant felt like an admission that they screwed up and rewarded UVA with more than they should have gotten.
I'll buy that, but keep in mind that the flagrant was the only option the refs had at the point. They can't go back and call a regular foul.

The charge on Perrantes a few minutes later was egregious. He had a step, so Barber threw himself at him and got rewarded. I think that call goes the other way if Perrantes doesn't extend his arm, but Barber initiated the contact in every way. Between that play and Brogdon getting called for a charge after Lacey jumped on his back, it was a bad night for interpreting charge/block rules.

[FerryFor50]

I'll buy that, but keep in mind that the flagrant was the only option the refs had at the point. They can't go back and call a regular foul.

The charge on Perrantes a few minutes later was egregious. He had a step, so Barber threw himself at him and got rewarded. I think that call goes the other way if Perrantes doesn't extend his arm, but Barber initiated the contact in every way. Between that play and Brogdon getting called for a charge after Lacey jumped on his back, it was a bad night for interpreting charge/block rules.

Agreed. I think it's just poor ACC officiating overall. The Brogden calls were pretty bad in general, too.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Agreed. I think it's just poor ACC officiating overall. The Brogden calls were pretty bad in general, too.

Yeah, the rule of thumb is usually that when both fan bases are complaining, you did a pretty decent job. While there have been a lot of complaints on both sides here, I don't think you can draw that conclusion. Both teams had legitimate gripes.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yeah, the rule of thumb is usually that when both fan bases are complaining, you did a pretty decent job. While there have been a lot of complaints on both sides here, I don't think you can draw that conclusion. Both teams had legitimate gripes.

Well, ripping on refs is the second favorite hobby of DBRers. First is minute allocation for our players two seasons from now.

[Wahoo2000]

Well, ripping on refs is the second favorite hobby of DBRers. First is minute allocation for our players two seasons from now.

That's well done by you guys then. I'm pretty certain it's the "first favorite hobby" of pretty much every single other fanbase.

Neither team's fanbase in that UVa/NCSU game has any right to complain too much, given that the simple ability to hit the broad side of a barn with the basketball would've resulted in a VERY comfortable win for either side.

As a UVa fan, I'm getting a little concerned with how our overall shooting has dipped since the conference games began. Really, aside from the UNC game, I can't remember the last time we shot the ball really well (GT was ok, but that game was such a blowout we were playing much more relaxed). I think FINALLY we're starting to feel the pressure of being "the hunted".

[DarkstarWahoo]

Well, ripping on refs is the second favorite hobby of DBRers. First is minute allocation for our players two seasons from now.
Hey, it's the Internet. It's made so people can complain.

I'd like to cosign my fellow Wahoo's post. Shooting is a definite concern. Perrantes is really the only one I feel comfortable shooting from outside right now. Brogdon and Nolte are hit-or-miss from 3, and Shayok is just miss at this point. Hopefully the upcoming stretch (Wake, Pitt, FSU, @Wake, VT) will be what the doctor ordered.

[Seattle Hoo]

You must be out of your mind to call that a flop. I didn't see it until just now, and Nolte was standing there watching the ball go through the hoop when Martin turned and ran over him. I doubt Nolte even saw Martin coming. He was looking up at the basket. You guys should know the difference. You watched Greg Paulus play for four years.

[FerryFor50]

You must be out of your mind to call that a flop. I didn't see it until just now, and Nolte was standing there watching the ball go through the hoop when Martin turned and ran over him. I doubt Nolte even saw Martin coming. He was looking up at the basket. You guys should know the difference. You watched Greg Paulus play for four years.

Given that we watched Paulus for 4 years, we do know what a flop looks like. And his name is Evan Nolte.

[BigWayne]

You must be out of your mind to call that a flop. I didn't see it until just now, and Nolte was standing there watching the ball go through the hoop when Martin turned and ran over him. I doubt Nolte even saw Martin coming. He was looking up at the basket. You guys should know the difference. You watched Greg Paulus play for four years.

It looks to me like both players did not see each other fully. Nolte was looking up at the dunk and then under the basket and doesn't seem to see Martin at all. Martin starts running back on D as soon as he makes the pass. He then looks up to watch the dunk. When he looks back down he seems to be looking at the other state player in front of him to his left and is thinking about celebrating the dunk. I think he sees Nolte at the last second and turns just a bit to brace for the inevitable contact. If he had hit Nolte on purpose, I would think he would have at least glanced back to see the damage in his wake. Instead it seems like he is intent on celebrating and getting back on D. The correct call would have been a "player control" foul, but even the refs were apparently watching the dunk.

[devildeac]

You must be out of your mind to call that a flop. I didn't see it until just now, and Nolte was standing there watching the ball go through the hoop when Martin turned and ran over him. I doubt Nolte even saw Martin coming. He was looking up at the basket. You guys should know the difference. You watched Greg Paulus play for four years.


Given that we watched Paulus for 4 years, we do know what a flop looks like. And his name is Evan Nolte.

Partially correct. We watched GP play for 4 years and he flopped. AND, we watched probably the most protected player in the history of MBB in the ACC play for 4 years and he was the king of flopping. My word, this looks like he was hit with a Sherman tank instead of ~180 pound Paulus in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJx9SRYTuHg

Winner of Emmy, Oscar, Tony, Pulitzer and acc ref awards all in one sequence. Remarkable performance.:rolleyes:

[devildeac]

Looks like the hokies quit early and often in this one:

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400587980


Or, are they really that bad?

[duketaylor]

Did I just hear correctly? With more than 18 minutes to play the Pitt students chanting "Overrated" at unc? Really? This game is SO NOT over. Stupid to incite them. Arghh!! Just win, baby!!

[bbosbbos]

I am very happy to see this. GTHCGTH



Did I just hear correctly? With more than 18 minutes to play the Pitt students chanting "Overrated" at unc? Really? This game is SO NOT over. Stupid to incite them. Arghh!! Just win, baby!!

[gurufrisbee]

LOVE what is happening in Pittsburgh!

[duketaylor]

Up 19 with 4:54 to go......c'mon, just hang on Panthers!!!!

[devildeac]

45 A to 7 TO for both teams combined so far in this game with under 7 minutes to go and one of the teams has a ratio >8:1 but not saying what game;):

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400599489

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Up 19 with 4:54 to go......c'mon, just hang on Panthers!!!!
And quit shooting with 20 on the shot clock

[gurufrisbee]

Up 19 with 4:54 to go......c'mon, just hang on Panthers!!!!

Hang on? Put the foot on their throat and run it up Pitt!

[arnie]

Did I just hear correctly? With more than 18 minutes to play the Pitt students chanting "Overrated" at unc? Really? This game is SO NOT over. Stupid to incite them. Arghh!! Just win, baby!!

The students at Pitt are astute.

[davekay1971]

Did I just hear correctly? With more than 18 minutes to play the Pitt students chanting "Overrated" at unc? Really? This game is SO NOT over. Stupid to incite them. Arghh!! Just win, baby!!

I've heard Coach K express disgust at the "Overrated" chant and I agree with him. It only demeans what your team is accomplishing. Is it not better to take joy that your team is whipping the number 12 team in the country, than to imply that the team cannot possibly be the number 12 team in the country if your team is whipping them?

Of course, at the end of the day, all that really matters is UNC, whether they are truly the 12th best team in the country or not, is being whipped.

[gurufrisbee]

LOVE IT!

Carolina loses!

and

ACC bubble team gets a big win.

[OldPhiKap]

LOVE IT!

Carolina loses!

and

ACC bubble team gets a big win.

I guess Roy's not in the daggum Valentine's Day spirit.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

This UNC team...playing well, playing at their highest level.....would have likely lost to the Pitt team on display at home today. Great game by Pitt.

Play poorly like UNC did and you get blown out, as we saw.

This UNC teams season long issue with overall lack of aggression, urgency, toughness, energy, effort...whatever you want to call it does not seem to be something that can be overcome to get this team to an elite level. This team is good, and capable, but not elite.

It has to be extremely frustrating for coach Williams. I have held out hope that they would grow, but it's just not happening and you can't hide from that fact.

It's looks to be a personality/chemistry deal to me. The players as a team just don't show the mental toughness and aggression that their counter parts are giving with their effort on the floor. And that's happened time after time this season.

Of the guys getting quality PT, I see three players bring consistent energy with their effort every play, every game, on the entire team.

Paige, Britt, Jackson.

The problem is, sometimes effort is not enough for these three and that's where chemistry comes in. The other teammates, with more physical talents, are not matching their intensity.

We know Britt is undersized, and he's not gonna get bigger,longer and stronger and he's getting challenged by bigger, stronger guards, with his help defense coming often late and soft. His quickness is getting overpowered in individual situations by big guards and the team flow is not helping him out to hide his weakness and allow him to show his strengths. He needs to be part of a team effort, and that's lacking. Roy has tried to adjust by bringing in a bigger/stronger Berry, but the freshman has had his injury issues and has not stepped up his play at this point.

Jackson is active all game, but weak as a WF. He's getting physically manhandled out there. I like his effort, he's playing hard, but he's a "let the game come to me" player on a team full of that attitude...somebody who handles the ball besides Paige has to pressure the defense off the dribble and get after it... play on their toes, force the defense to their heels...so to speak. He's not physically able to be that guy this season.

Paige is just getting blanketed and bullied by defenders. UNC is an easy team to prepare for when nobody puts pressure on the defense from the wings but him.

I'm at a loss to understand Tokoto's effort. There is no excuse to me a player with his skill level not being able to get to the rim and the line.

Johnson effort has improved, he seems to be really trying, but he still has a long ways to go to be feared by any other post player in the ACC.

Meeks seems to have hit the wall of his physical abilities in the shape he is in at this point in the season. Early in the year he had more bounce and energy. He's looking slow and tired lately. Maybe he's not recovered from his illnesses, but that's how I'm seeing his play.

This is still a good team, but my expectations of how far they can go have been lowered in the past couple of weeks.

Spare me the Roy criticism, no coach should ever have to coach effort, and that's this teams problem.

[OldPhiKap]

This UNC team...playing well, playing at their highest level.....would have likely lost to the Pitt team on display at home today. Great game by Pitt.

Play poorly like UNC did and you get blown out, as we saw.

This UNC teams season long issue with overall lack of aggression, urgency, toughness, energy, effort...whatever you want to call it does not seem to be something that can be overcome to get this team to an elite level. This team is good, and capable, but not elite.

It has to be extremely frustrating for coach Williams. I have held out hope that they would grow, but it's just not happening and you can't hide from that fact.

It's looks to be a personality/chemistry deal to me. The players as a team just don't show the mental toughness and aggression that their counter parts are giving with their effort on the floor. And that's happened time after time this season.

Of the guys getting quality PT, I see three players bring consistent energy with their effort every play, every game, on the entire team.

Paige, Britt, Jackson.

The problem is, sometimes effort is not enough for these three and that's where chemistry comes in. The other teammates, with more physical talents, are not matching their intensity.

We know Britt is undersized, and he's not gonna get bigger,longer and stronger and he's getting challenged by bigger, stronger guards, with his help defense coming often late and soft. His quickness is getting overpowered in individual situations by big guards and the team flow is not helping him out to hide his weakness and allow him to show his strengths. He needs to be part of a team effort, and that's lacking. Roy has tried to adjust by bringing in a bigger/stronger Berry, but the freshman has had his injury issues and has not stepped up his play at this point.

Jackson is active all game, but weak as a WF. He's getting physically manhandled out there. I like his effort, he's playing hard, but he's a "let the game come to me" player on a team full of that attitude...somebody who handles the ball besides Paige has to pressure the defense off the dribble and get after it... play on their toes, force the defense to their heels...so to speak. He's not physically able to be that guy this season.

Paige is just getting blanketed and bullied by defenders. UNC is an easy team to prepare for when nobody puts pressure on the defense from the wings but him.

I'm at a loss to understand Tokoto's effort. There is no excuse to me a player with his skill level not being able to get to the rim and the line.

Johnson effort has improved, he seems to be really trying, but he still has a long ways to go to be feared by any other post player in the ACC.

Meeks seems to have hit the wall of his physical abilities in the shape he is in at this point in the season. Early in the year he had more bounce and energy. He's looking slow and tired lately. Maybe he's not recovered from his illnesses, but that's how I'm seeing his play.

This is still a good team, but my expectations of how far they can go have been lowered in the past couple of weeks.

Spare me the Roy criticism, no coach should ever have to coach effort, and that's this teams problem.

Wheat, I agree with everything you say except the pass you give Roy. Lack of passion, lack of effort -- that starts at the top. K is a perfect example.

And for the life of me I do not understand Roy's substitution patterns or desire to take time outs home with him.

UNC has talented players and can beat anyone on a given night. Duke more than included. But Roy is a one-trick pony, and when the plan doesn't work he has no answers.

What you describe has been Carolina's consistent problem for four or five years. If not the coach, why does this effort problem persist?

[cptnflash]

UVa struggling at home against Wake in the first half, and just lost Evan Nolte to a hand injury that looked potentially serious.

[roywhite]

UVa struggling at home against Wake in the first half, and just lost Evan Nolte to a hand injury that looked potentially serious.

Wow...Wake 31 UVa 24 at half. Deacs playing well. Cody Miller-Mcintyre has really improved.

[bbosbbos]

Jinx? It is way too early to say anything about uva now? Tony is a very good college coach. He will make adjustment in the 2nd half. But, but I hope WF would get a win.

[roywhite]

Ha...loved this post from Devilsden (h/t to Betterblue) regarding the Pitt--UNC game and Panther color announcer, Duke great Dick Groat


Listened to the Pitt radio broadcast. Dick Groat: "Nobody else in this building is as happy as I am today."



Thanks, Dick; we're proud to have your jersey in our rafters.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Wheat, I agree with everything you say except the pass you give Roy. Lack of passion, lack of effort -- that starts at the top. K is a perfect example.

And for the life of me I do not understand Roy's substitution patterns or desire to take time outs home with him.

UNC has talented players and can beat anyone on a given night. Duke more than included. But Roy is a one-trick pony, and when the plan doesn't work he has no answers.

What you describe has been Carolina's consistent problem for four or five years. If not the coach, why does this effort problem persist?

It's just the personality of these players. Sure, he recruited them, and has to take responsibility for that, but like I said, he shouldn't have to coach effort. No coach should.

His past teams didn't have these issues of effort/intensity...it's been mainly with the past couple of recruiting classes, for whatever reason. The key spots where he needs intensity are wanting from the players, or they are too young, inexperienced or physically challenged to provide it. He has a complicated problem with these guys.

His substitution patterns are him trying to find players and the chemistry that will give it max effort. I'd be way more disappointed in him if he left the same guys out there seeing what I've seen from some.

[Duvall]

This league is so useless.

[cptnflash]

So close... UVa hangs on by the thinnest of threads!

Not thrilled with Manning's play call on that last possession, which seemed to be "have Cody Miller-McIntyre dribble around at the top of the key until something happens."

[bbosbbos]

WF committed suicide. sigh

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

How do you not even try to shoot?

[bbosbbos]

Manning will make WF very good. imho

[dukebluesincebirth]

UVA is showing weakness without Anderson. Not only was he shooting 3s, he was a tough, physical presence on defense. They look much more beatable now IMO. Is he supposed to be back by march madness?

[jhmoss1812]

So close... UVa hangs on by the thinnest of threads!

Not thrilled with Manning's play call on that last possession, which seemed to be "have Cody Miller-McIntyre dribble around at the top of the key until something happens."

Not sure why they would isolate CMM against Brogdon. He's easily our best on-ball defender. Fortunate to escape with a win. But this team is really struggling right now. You can see the writing on the wall that a L or two is coming up.

[bbosbbos]

Between 4-6 weeks from last week. He should be able to come back in time.


UVA is showing weakness without Anderson. Not only was he shooting 3s, he was a tough, physical presence on defense. They look much more beatable now IMO. Is he supposed to be back by march madness?

[W&LHoo]

Between 4-6 weeks from last week. He should be able to come back in time.

He'll be back for the NCAAs. The real question is whether he'll be ready/it makes sense for him to play in the ACCT.

[howardlander]

It's just the personality of these players. Sure, he recruited them, and has to take responsibility for that, but like I said, he shouldn't have to coach effort. No coach should.

His past teams didn't have these issues of effort/intensity...it's been mainly with the past couple of recruiting classes, for whatever reason. The key spots where he needs intensity are wanting from the players, or they are too young, inexperienced or physically challenged to provide it. He has a complicated problem with these guys.

His substitution patterns are him trying to find players and the chemistry that will give it max effort. I'd be way more disappointed in him if he left the same guys out there seeing what I've seen from some.

I didn't watch the game today, so I can't comment specifically about their effort level today. But sometimes lack of talent looks like lack of effort. Maybe they just aren't great ACC basketball players.

Howard

[moonpie23]

honest question for wheat...


do you think there is a sense of entitlement that comes with wearing the baby blue uni?

[Olympic Fan]

Spare me the Roy criticism, no coach should ever have to coach effort, and that's this teams problem.

I think this is one of the most astonishing things you have ever written on this board -- and that includes your ridiculous deification of Nate Britt.

No coach should have to coach effort? My view is 180 degrees opposite -- EVERY coach has to coach effort. Motivation is a huge part of any coach's job. College-age players constantly struggle with focus and consistent effort. Yeah, sometimes you recruit a kid that bring it almost every time out, but most don't. The coach has to inspire that effort ... that focus. No coach is perfect at that -- K had a hard to getting them up for the recent Georgia Tech game -- but when a team struggles in that area as often as UNC does, you DO have to look at the coach.

I agree that Pitt was unusually hot today -- their best shooting game of the season. How much that was just bad timing by UNC and how much was due to bad defense? We asked the game question when N.C. State and Miami shots the lights out against us (neither has been as accurate since). How much was bad luck and how much was bad defense?

In this case, UNC had a week to get ready for this game. All I heard on TV last night was how dedicated the players were to winning this one for Dean Smith.

And they couldn't even give a decent effort?

Great win for a Pitt team struggling to get on the NCAA bubble. I don't think this win puts them in, but it at least puts them into the conversation.

I was surprised by Wake Forest's great effort on the road. You've got to understand, this has been one of the worst road teams in ACC history over the last few years. I think Bzdelik won two ACC road games in four years ... Manning has yet to win an ACC game outside Joel (4-3 at home; 0-6 on the road). But they could have won this one had not Miller-McIntyre, who played well for most of the game, not wet his pants with the ball and a chance to win in the final 10 seconds.

In Atlanta, Georgia Tech did it again, losing a late lead and falling to Florida State by four. Amazing how unlucky (inefficient?) they are in end-game situations.

NC State giving Louisville fits early in the second half ... its a game the Pack needs badly to get back in the bubble consideration.

PS Not ACC, but did anybody else think it appropriate that a guy named Valentine hit the winning shot for Michigan State today against Ohio State?

[MChambers]

PS Not ACC, but did anybody else think it appropriate that a guy named Valentine hit the winning shot for Michigan State today against Ohio State?
Watched the game with some MSU grads and they all saw it coming. Headline writes itself.

[duketaylor]

Can Wolfies hang on? Would be a huge win for them.

[duketaylor]

Big win for the Pack, if they finish-up 7 with 20 seconds left and have the ball. They and Pitt, with strong finishes, could be back in the discussion for bids.
GW lost at home today to VCU. SEC is weak. Bids gotta come from somewhere. Pac 12 mostly sucks. A-10 might have 4. Big 10 and 12 will get several, especially Big 12. Time for our Devils!

GO DUKE!!!

[Furniture]

Can Wolfies hang on? Would be a huge win for them.

Yup. They can!

[gurufrisbee]

I feel like the conference is going to get screwed on bids again, but really if you've been watching NC St, Pitt, Clemson, FLorida State, and Miami this year you know that they are not only all EASILY in the top 50 of teams in the entire nation but also WAY better than the second or even third (or fourth) tier of teams in every other conference out there. The Big 12 can hang with the ACC in the first tier with a half dozen good teams, but then there is a big drop off. And really - any of those five teams would finish 3rd or 4th in the Big Can't Count...err Ten, Pac 12, and Big East. And those five teams would be teams 2 through 6 in the SEC. Without question.

[Wahoo2000]

I feel like the conference is going to get screwed on bids again, but really if you've been watching NC St, Pitt, Clemson, FLorida State, and Miami this year you know that they are not only all EASILY in the top 50 of teams in the entire nation but also WAY better than the second or even third (or fourth) tier of teams in every other conference out there. The Big 12 can hang with the ACC in the first tier with a half dozen good teams, but then there is a big drop off. And really - any of those five teams would finish 3rd or 4th in the Big Can't Count...err Ten, Pac 12, and Big East. And those five teams would be teams 2 through 6 in the SEC. Without question.

B12 has 7 legit top 25-30 teams this year. I wouldn't put any in my top 8 though. They're all probably lumped into that 10-25 range. ACC better at the "tip-top", but I think B12 is deeper. I'd give a clear, but not massive edge to the ACC if you're looking at the top 5 teams from each conf. Top 7? Probably edge to B12, because as well as NCSU, Miami, et. al play at times..... they're too inconsistent to call any of them legit top 30 this year.

[-jk]

Hope these Triangle upsets aren't a trend tonight...

-jk

[Wheat/"/"/"]

honest question for wheat...


do you think there is a sense of entitlement that comes with wearing the baby blue uni?

No, I think there is an expectation that a player play hard, smart, and plays together as a team...what the program has always preached

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I think this is one of the most astonishing things you have ever written on this board -- and that includes your ridiculous deification of Nate Britt.

No coach should have to coach effort? My view is 180 degrees opposite -- EVERY coach has to coach effort. Motivation is a huge part of any coach's job. College-age players constantly struggle with focus and consistent effort. Yeah, sometimes you recruit a kid that bring it almost every time out, but most don't. The coach has to inspire that effort ... that focus. No coach is perfect at that -- K had a hard to getting them up for the recent Georgia Tech game -- but when a team struggles in that area as often as UNC does, you DO have to look at the coach.

I agree that Pitt was unusually hot today -- their best shooting game of the season. How much that was just bad timing by UNC and how much was due to bad defense? We asked the game question when N.C. State and Miami shots the lights out against us (neither has been as accurate since). How much was bad luck and how much was bad defense?

In this case, UNC had a week to get ready for this game. All I heard on TV last night was how dedicated the players were to winning this one for Dean Smith.

And they couldn't even give a decent effort?

I have no clue how you can read my comments on Britt and think I am doing anything but making an honest assesment of his game. He has limitations, but he plays hard, which is more than I can say about most of his teammates.

A coach does have to coach effort, but he shouldn't have to, and that's what I've said. Roy has benched guys, changed starting lineups, held grueling practices, challenged their toughness in the press... he's trying, but he's not getting through to them.

So yea, take the easy way out and put responsibility on the guy who's old and sits on the bench and not the guys who actually get out on the court and play the game.

I'm a guy who thinks that it's not all that much about coaching once kids get on the floor, coaches do their thing at practice, it's about pride in your game when you play hard, and I just don't see that from some of these players.

Did anyone see somebody get mad out there today besides Roy?

[Henderson]

No, I think there is an expectation that a player play hard, smart, and plays together as a team...what the program has always preached

A reasonable set of expectations.

So who's responsible for recruiting players who don't exhibit those qualities and cannot motivate players to demonstrate them?

Or is this just an extension of The Carolina Way? "The buck stops over there somewhere."

"I keep telling them to score more points than the other team, and dagummit, they won't do it."

[FerryFor50]

A reasonable set of expectations.

So who's responsible for recruiting players who don't exhibit those qualities and cannot motivate players to demonstrate them?

Or is this just an extension of The Carolina Way? "The buck stops over there somewhere."

"I keep telling them to score more points than the other team, and dagummit, they won't do it."

It could be that now that they have to attend real classes, they just don't have the same energy level to dedicate to basketball that they used to. ;)

[Duke95]

It could be that now that they have to attend real classes, they just don't have the same energy level to dedicate to basketball that they used to. ;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=95SYdjRVCR0

[77devil]

I have no clue how you can read my comments on Britt and think I am doing anything but making an honest assesment of his game. He has limitations, but he plays hard, which is more than I can say about most of his teammates.

A coach does have to coach effort, but he shouldn't have to, and that's what I've said. Roy has benched guys, changed starting lineups, held grueling practices, challenged their toughness in the press... he's trying, but he's not getting through to them.

So yea, take the easy way out and put responsibility on the guy who's old and sits on the bench and not the guys who actually get out on the court and play the game.

I'm a guy who thinks that it's not all that much about coaching once kids get on the floor, coaches do their thing at practice, it's about pride in your game when you play hard, and I just don't see that from some of these players.

Did anyone see somebody get mad out there today besides Roy?

If you ever played competitive sports at a reasonably high level you would understand how inaccurate this statement is. IMO, Roy's biggest problem is that he's not well respected by his players.

[OldPhiKap]

I have no clue how you can read my comments on Britt and think I am doing anything but making an honest assesment of his game. He has limitations, but he plays hard, which is more than I can say about most of his teammates.

A coach does have to coach effort, but he shouldn't have to, and that's what I've said. Roy has benched guys, changed starting lineups, held grueling practices, challenged their toughness in the press... he's trying, but he's not getting through to them.

So yea, take the easy way out and put responsibility on the guy who's old and sits on the bench and not the guys who actually get out on the court and play the game.

I'm a guy who thinks that it's not all that much about coaching once kids get on the floor, coaches do their thing at practice, it's about pride in your game when you play hard, and I just don't see that from some of these players.

Did anyone see somebody get mad out there today besides Roy?

The bolded is where you and I are having a disconnect. It is Roy's JOB to motivate his players. He gets paid major wampum to do it. And as you say, he's not doing the job productively.

I can't believe that Paige turned from an All-ACC POY candidate into a kid who isn't trying. Or any of the other kids. They all bleed baby blue I am sure, and they did not get to the level they achieved without incredible drive. I am sure that playing for Carolina is The Dream for most or all of them. But a coach needs to cultivate and channel that motivation into a team. Roy has not been able to do that in years.

You can either blame most or all of the the kids from the last five years, or you can recognize the common denominator -- a coach who cannot put a team on the court that consistently plays as a cohesive and motivated unit. The problem here isn't the kids who wear the uniforms -- it's the lack of good coachng to bring out the best abilities of each kid for each possession.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

The bolded is where you and I are having a disconnect. It is Roy's JOB to motivate his players. He gets paid major wampum to do it. And as you say, he's not doing the job productively.

I can't believe that Paige turned from an All-ACC POY candidate into a kid who isn't trying. Or any of the other kids. They all bleed baby blue I am sure, and they did not get to the level they achieved without incredible drive. I am sure that playing for Carolina is The Dream for most or all of them. But a coach needs to cultivate and channel that motivation into a team. Roy has not been able to do that in years.

You can either blame most or all of the the kids from the last five years, or you can recognize the common denominator -- a coach who cannot put a team on the court that consistently plays as a cohesive and motivated unit. The problem here isn't the kids who wear the uniforms -- it's the lack of good coachng to bring out the best abilities of each kid for each possession.
If Roy would quit the third person pity party and focus on coaching his te-... nah, that'll never happen.

[jv001]

Big win for the Pack, if they finish-up 7 with 20 seconds left and have the ball. They and Pitt, with strong finishes, could be back in the discussion for bids.
GW lost at home today to VCU. SEC is weak. Bids gotta come from somewhere. Pac 12 mostly sucks. A-10 might have 4. Big 10 and 12 will get several, especially Big 12. Time for our Devils!

GO DUKE!!!

I don't see how Pomeroy has the SEC rated so highly. Wins for ACC teams over SEC teams this season: GT over GA, Miami over Florida, Clemson over LSU, Clemson over Arkansas, Clemson over Auburn, NC State over Tenn, GT over Vandy, FSU over Florida,
Games SEC over ACC: Arkansas over Wake, USC over Clemson, Florida over Wake, Miss. State over FSU.
Most of these SEC teams are rated over the middle tier ACC teams. I just don't get it. I've watched some of these teams and they don't impress me. GoDuke!

[gumbomoop]

Unexpectedly good results today across the conference today. Although I hoped Pitt would be in the game until the end with a chance, I never imagined such a strong performance. Nor did I imagine a game with 55 assists and 9 turnovers. Some sort of weird record? Congrats to Pack; didn't see that coming, either.

As for Heels, they look tired, discombobulated. Good thing Roy doesn't play Hicks more. Paige must be fighting nagging injuries. Tokoto can't find it, whatever "it" is. His mental errors are heartwarming, as are his jumpers, as is his handle. His "it" is way lost. Although I think Wheat's assessment of Britt's talent and contributions is a little generous, I generally agree with Wheat that Britt can play. He doesn't embarrass himself, is smart, steady, doesn't fluster, deserves his increased minutes. Joel James isn't good. Roy should give Hicks pretty much all of James's minutes, but fortunately will not.

Although I hope the Heels implode, I won't say I expect it. Hope we crush 'em Wed eve, but I'll be happy with a win.

Win Wed, and our chances of securing ACCT #2 seed look solid, #3 nearly assured. We should expect ND to lose @ UL, so Duke at 14-4 would be sufficient to get us #2 ACCT seed, assure NCAAT #2 seed, and keep us in running for NCAAT #1. Right?

[CDu]

I don't see how Pomeroy has the SEC rated so highly. Wins for ACC teams over SEC teams this season: GT over GA, Miami over Florida, Clemson over LSU, Clemson over Arkansas, Clemson over Auburn, NC State over Tenn, GT over Vandy, FSU over Florida,
Games SEC over ACC: Arkansas over Wake, USC over Clemson, Florida over Wake, Miss. State over FSU.
Most of these SEC teams are rated over the middle tier ACC teams. I just don't get it. I've watched some of these teams and they don't impress me. GoDuke!

Kentucky has wins over Louisville and UNC too.

[Seattle Hoo]

Spare me the Roy criticism, no coach should ever have to coach effort, and that's this teams problem.

An oft-repeated proposition that is simply incorrect. Anybody who has studied the literature knows that human performance, human effort, can be plotted on a bell curve. Anybody who has led human beings for an extended period of time knows that no individual or group of individuals gives top or even acceptable performance at all times. External motivation is essential at times. Name me a great coach who was not also a motivator. One of the most common threads amongst the greats is people saying, "He got the best out of his players."

If a team consistently fails to give the required effort, that is on the coach, especially in college sports where selecting and acquiring the players is part of the coach's job.

I don't watch UNC all that often, but every single time I have watched them over the last few years, I have seen the same things, and what I see is a team that just does not look as good as the sum of its parts. There is some intangible thing missing at the core. I think Roy has gotten old and tired. I think he has one great season left in him, but other than that, he is heading toward The Long Walk.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

An oft-repeated proposition that is simply incorrect. Anybody who has studied the literature knows that human performance, human effort, can be plotted on a bell curve. Anybody who has led human beings for an extended period of time knows that no individual or group of individuals gives top or even acceptable performance at all times. External motivation is essential at times. Name me a great coach who was not also a motivator. One of the most common threads amongst the greats is people saying, "He got the best out of his players."

If a team consistently fails to give the required effort, that is on the coach, especially in college sports where selecting and acquiring the players is part of the coach's job.

I don't watch UNC all that often, but every single time I have watched them over the last few years, I have seen the same things, and what I see is a team that just does not look as good as the sum of its parts. There is some intangible thing missing at the core. I think Roy has gotten old and tired. I think he has one great season left in him, but other than that, he is heading toward The Long Walk.
100%.

Also, I would theorize that the lack of ability to bulid and sustain energy is a byproduct of the cheating scandal. It's got to weigh heavily on ol' Roy everyday knowing he was part of the cheating and cover up. How can you bring energy and enthusiasm when you know you're a fraud and so much of what you've done was a scam, a lie?

[gurufrisbee]

I don't see how Pomeroy has the SEC rated so highly. Wins for ACC teams over SEC teams this season: GT over GA, Miami over Florida, Clemson over LSU, Clemson over Arkansas, Clemson over Auburn, NC State over Tenn, GT over Vandy, FSU over Florida,
Games SEC over ACC: Arkansas over Wake, USC over Clemson, Florida over Wake, Miss. State over FSU.
Most of these SEC teams are rated over the middle tier ACC teams. I just don't get it. I've watched some of these teams and they don't impress me. GoDuke!

I totally agree. Cuse, Clemson, NC ST, Pitt, Florida St, and Miami would EASILY be teams 2-7 if they all joined the SEC.

[OldPhiKap]

"SEC Bias"

[CDu]

I didn't watch the game today, so I can't comment specifically about their effort level today. But sometimes lack of talent looks like lack of effort. Maybe they just aren't great ACC basketball players.

Howard


An oft-repeated proposition that is simply incorrect. Anybody who has studied the literature knows that human performance, human effort, can be plotted on a bell curve. Anybody who has led human beings for an extended period of time knows that no individual or group of individuals gives top or even acceptable performance at all times. External motivation is essential at times. Name me a great coach who was not also a motivator. One of the most common threads amongst the greats is people saying, "He got the best out of his players."

If a team consistently fails to give the required effort, that is on the coach, especially in college sports where selecting and acquiring the players is part of the coach's job.

I don't watch UNC all that often, but every single time I have watched them over the last few years, I have seen the same things, and what I see is a team that just does not look as good as the sum of its parts. There is some intangible thing missing at the core. I think Roy has gotten old and tired. I think he has one great season left in him, but other than that, he is heading toward The Long Walk.

I agree with both of these posts. I don't think effort is the biggest problem. I think talent is an issue. And I DO think coaxing out effort is part of a coach's job.

I have never thought highly of Williams as an "x's and o's" coach. His teams have always seemed too predictable in the half court. This year's team has put in a lot of effort. It is just that they don't have the talent that they have had in the past. Add to that they just don't seem to make adjustments in-game, which is most certainly a coaching issue. On previous teams, where the talent was superior, UNC could just do what they do and beat you even if you had a good plan. With this team, they just don't have the talent to "shock and awe" you, so they are much more susceptible to losing when they are outcoached (and they are often outcoached)

Yesterday's game is a great example. UNC dominated the boards on both ends of the floor. Rebounding is probably the easiest way to measure effort, and they won on both ends there. So I just don't buy the effort argument. But Pitt was running layup drills all day yesterday. That is a coaching issue: Dixon knew exactly how to attack UNC's defense, and Williams couldn't/didn't make the adjustments.

I think Williams goes to the "we aren't playing hard enough" excuse as a crutch to mask the fact that he isn't great at gameplanning or in-game adjustments. And this year's team just doesn't have the talent to consistently cover up Williams' in-game coaching deficiencies.

[Newton_14]

I agree with both of these posts. I don't think effort is the biggest problem. I think talent is an issue. And I DO think coaxing out effort is part of a coach's job.

I have never thought highly of Williams as an "x's and o's" coach. His teams have always seemed too predictable in the half court. This year's team has put in a lot of effort. It is just that they don't have the talent that they have had in the past. Add to that they just don't seem to make adjustments in-game, which is most certainly a coaching issue. On previous teams, where the talent was superior, UNC could just do what they do and beat you even if you had a good plan. With this team, they just don't have the talent to "shock and awe" you, so they are much more susceptible to losing when they are outcoached (and they are often outcoached)

Yesterday's game is a great example. UNC dominated the boards on both ends of the floor. Rebounding is probably the easiest way to measure effort, and they won on both ends there. So I just don't buy the effort argument. But Pitt was running layup drills all day yesterday. That is a coaching issue: Dixon knew exactly how to attack UNC's defense, and Williams couldn't/didn't make the adjustments.

I think Williams goes to the "we aren't playing hard enough" excuse as a crutch to mask the fact that he isn't great at gameplanning or in-game adjustments. And this year's team just doesn't have the talent to consistently cover up Williams' in-game coaching deficiencies.

Agree. The local WRAL sports anchor for 11pm news edited the game film last night to show Shelton Greer? hitting like 5 mid-range jumpers, from the exact same spot on the floor in the second half yesterday and her parting comment was "at some point you may want to guard him". The basic's of Roy's model (which is predicated upon Dean's which worked great in a different era) is "score in the paint, and defend the paint". Sort of like the ol days of Football where the theory for success was to "be able to run successfully, and stop the run on defense". Roy added the wrinkle to that of push the ball at break neck speed, even after made baskets to use superior quickness to get easy baskets. When you don't have superior speed, all you have left is the paint philosophy which doesn't work by itself in today's game. They don't defend the 3 point line, ever, except for a handful of Duke games over the past few years against Duke teams that were heavy on 3's. (And this usually came in game 2 after getting killed from 3 in game 1).

[brevity]

Sunday

[123]Boston College hosts [62]Miami (6:30, ESPNU)

Not anymore. (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cbask/news/news.aspx?id=801556)


Sunday's men's basketball game between Miami-Florida and Boston College has been postponed with the New England region dealing with another major snowstorm.

The ACC contest has been rescheduled for Monday night, with the start time yet to be determined.

"Our top priority is to ensure the safety of our players, students, fans and game personnel," Boston College athletics director Brad Bates said. "This is God punishing us for the Patriots."

[Troublemaker]

KenPom's ACC Projections as of today:

UVA 16-2
Duke 14-4
Notre Dame 14-4
Louisville 12-6
UNC 12-6

I'm not a big believer in Notre Dame. Despite a favorable schedule, I think they will finish 13-5 or 12-6.

So, from my perspective, Duke's looking GREAT for a 2 seed if we just take care of business.

And hopefully UVA continues to play close games and starts losing some of them.

[tbyers11]

Not anymore. (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cbask/news/news.aspx?id=801556)

I see what you did in the quote there. Sporks for you.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I got the same graph from Rob Daniels, a former sports writer from Charlottesville and Greensboro, who does some stat work for the ACC. His numbers agree with yours -- furthermore, his graph goes back to the first ACC season in 1954.

The current average margin is the lowest since 1990 (when it was 8.714). It's only been under 9.0 four times in history -- the lowest was 1976, when it was 7.286.

Duke's 30-point win over Notre Dame didn't help things, but Monday night's two games (a 3-point Duke win and a 2-point VPI win) certainly did.
Down from 8.79 to 8.73 across the last week. Although the final scores of the VT and UNC losses don't really reflect how non-competitive each game was. Anyway, games are generally remaining pretty tight. I wonder if there is any correlation between this year's point differential and pepto-bismol sales?

[jv001]

If Roy would quit the third person pity party and focus on coaching his te-... nah, that'll never happen.

This^. I was watching the weather report for the NC Piedmont and they ran a short report on uncheaters game against Pitt. After listening to old roy and his stupid dialog, I once again realized how terrible a coach he is. He should be ashamed to mention Dean Smith's name. Dean knew more about college basketball than roy cheat will ever know. I guess, I'm getting fired up for Wednesday night. GoDuke beat the cheats!!!!

[W&LHoo]

Apparently the kids from Pitt are already in Charlottesville, so the UVA Pitt game is on. Should be a tough test for my wahoos as they face a Pitt team that feels like they basically have to win out to make the NCAAs. I fully expect an amped up Pitt team, and after seeing the aggressive performances we've gotten from Miami, NC State, and Wake, I'm starting to understand what you guys talk about when you say that Duke always gets an opposing team's best effort.

We're still trying to figure out how to score consistently without Anderson in the mix, but some positive glimpses are emerging:

1. Nolte starting to heat back up. He's been frustratingly cold from 3 all year, but if he can get back to being a solid perimeter shooter, he'll add a lot to the team beyond his defensive prowess.
2. Perrantes getting more aggressive. London Perrantes has clearly been shifting from his role as a distributor to a scorer, but his 26 points against Miami and clutch shots in recent games show he can make it happen when we need him to.
3. Growing inside game. Gill, Tobey, and Atkins have all shown that they are theoretically capable of being a major inside presence but really only Gill seems to have the right combination of will and strength to get to the rim consistently. Unfortunately, of the three he's the worst free throw shooter, so that's been a mixed bag. If 1 or 2 of these guys can get going it'll open up the game dramatically.

Obviously, Malcolm Brogdon is going to keep being great, but without 1 or 2 of the above scenarios really happening, UVA's eventually not going to be able to keep pace offensively.

[OldPhiKap]

Apparently the kids from Pitt are already in Charlottesville, so the UVA Pitt game is on. Should be a tough test for my wahoos as they face a Pitt team that feels like they basically have to win out to make the NCAAs. I fully expect an amped up Pitt team, and after seeing the aggressive performances we've gotten from Miami, NC State, and Wake, I'm starting to understand what you guys talk about when you say that Duke always gets an opposing team's best effort.

We're still trying to figure out how to score consistently without Anderson in the mix, but some positive glimpses are emerging:

1. Nolte starting to heat back up. He's been frustratingly cold from 3 all year, but if he can get back to being a solid perimeter shooter, he'll add a lot to the team beyond his defensive prowess.
2. Perrantes getting more aggressive. London Perrantes has clearly been shifting from his role as a distributor to a scorer, but his 26 points against Miami and clutch shots in recent games show he can make it happen when we need him to.
3. Growing inside game. Gill, Tobey, and Atkins have all shown that they are theoretically capable of being a major inside presence but really only Gill seems to have the right combination of will and strength to get to the rim consistently. Unfortunately, of the three he's the worst free throw shooter, so that's been a mixed bag. If 1 or 2 of these guys can get going it'll open up the game dramatically.

Obviously, Malcolm Brogdon is going to keep being great, but without 1 or 2 of the above scenarios really happening, UVA's eventually not going to be able to keep pace offensively.

This should be a fun game. Not sure how Pitt has done on the road, and doubt they will shoot lights out two games in a row. I would expect a Wahoo win but the adjustment without Anderson is a big wild card.

[jhmoss1812]

This should be a fun game. Not sure how Pitt has done on the road, and doubt they will shoot lights out two games in a row. I would expect a Wahoo win but the adjustment without Anderson is a big wild card.

Pitt has really struggled to win on the road (1-6). However, the weather could impact the crowd tonight so it might not reflect a true road game atmosphere. I am definitely worried about this game. We're really struggling on offense, especially from the perimeter. The inside game has really stepped up and the defense is still pretty good but it's going to start costing us. Tonight could be the night as Pitt is playing well and desperate for another big win. In the end, we're just not talented and deep enough at the guard position right now to beat really good teams without Anderson. So I just don't see how we win the ACCT without him and our ceiling for the NCAAT is much lower. There aren't many teams that could lose it's most talented player and continue to win games. I mean Wisconsin without Kaminsky lost to Rutgers!. So far, we keep winning but the writing is on the wall.

[CDu]

Pitt has really struggled to win on the road (1-6). However, the weather could impact the crowd tonight so it might not reflect a true road game atmosphere. I am definitely worried about this game. We're really struggling on offense, especially from the perimeter. The inside game has really stepped up and the defense is still pretty good but it's going to start costing us. Tonight could be the night as Pitt is playing well and desperate for another big win. In the end, we're just not talented and deep enough at the guard position right now to beat really good teams without Anderson. So I just don't see how we win the ACCT without him and our ceiling for the NCAAT is much lower. There aren't many teams that could lose it's most talented player and continue to win games. I mean Wisconsin without Kaminsky lost to Rutgers!. So far, we keep winning but the writing is on the wall.

It is my understanding that he'll be back before the ACC tournament, so I'm not sure that the concern about the NCAA tourney ceiling.

[jhmoss1812]

It is my understanding that he'll be back before the ACC tournament, so I'm not sure that the concern about the NCAA tourney ceiling.

The concern is more about how he'll play post-injury. Who knows if he'll be the same type of player at that time. The original prognosis was 4-6 weeks. If it's 6 weeks, that puts his return around the Sweet 16. But Justin is an absolute freak and seems to heal really quickly. After getting injured in the MD game, he was back for the next game against VCU and dominated. So I'm optimistic that he'll return and be ready to go. But, without him, we're just a lot more limited.

[Des Esseintes]

The concern is more about how he'll play post-injury. Who knows if he'll be the same type of player at that time. The original prognosis was 4-6 weeks. If it's 6 weeks, that puts his return around the Sweet 16. But Justin is an absolute freak and seems to heal really quickly. After getting injured in the MD game, he was back for the next game against VCU and dominated. So I'm optimistic that he'll return and be ready to go. But, without him, we're just a lot more limited.

I understand that concern. Missing Ryan Kelly for several weeks meant he wasn't fully incorporated into the team at ACCT time. His first game back was a monster performance, but after that the seams showed. We lost early in the ACCs, kicking us down to a 2-seed. And it was a bad year to be a 2 if Louisville happened to be your 1.

On the other hand, had Duke just won that ACC Tournament game, which was very winnable even for a diminished-strength Duke team, it probably would have received a 1, and a Final Four beth would have been far more likely. So your chances remain excellent to go where you want to go this season. Your team is fantastic.

[CDu]

I understand that concern. Missing Ryan Kelly for several weeks meant he wasn't fully incorporated into the team at ACCT time. His first game back was a monster performance, but after that the seams showed. We lost early in the ACCs, kicking us down to a 2-seed. And it was a bad year to be a 2 if Louisville happened to be your 1.

On the other hand, had Duke just won that ACC Tournament game, which was very winnable even for a diminished-strength Duke team, it probably would have received a 1, and a Final Four beth would have been far more likely. So your chances remain excellent to go where you want to go this season. Your team is fantastic.

I think the bigger issue with Kelly was that he wasn't actually healthy when he returned (his foot required surgery after the season). He was playing on a bum foot because he didn't want to miss the end of his senior year, but he wasn't really right. I don't know that the same issues will be there for Anderson, who will presumably be healthy when he returns.

Now, as for whether or not he'll play like he did before the injury is another matter. I'd argue that it depends on what you mean by "before the injury." Anderson's numbers during ACC play are quite a bit below what he was doing for the season as a whole. He was shooting just 37.4% from the field and 36.7% from 3pt range in ACC play (compared with 48.0% from the field and 48.4% from 3 for the season overall). So I think he will certainly be able to regain his ACC form, but I think it is highly unlikely that he'll regain his pre-ACC form.

[jhmoss1812]

I think the bigger issue with Kelly was that he wasn't actually healthy when he returned (his foot required surgery after the season). He was playing on a bum foot because he didn't want to miss the end of his senior year, but he wasn't really right. I don't know that the same issues will be there for Anderson, who will presumably be healthy when he returns.

Now, as for whether or not he'll play like he did before the injury is another matter. I'd argue that it depends on what you mean by "before the injury." Anderson's numbers during ACC play are quite a bit below what he was doing for the season as a whole. He was shooting just 37.4% from the field and 36.7% from 3pt range in ACC play (compared with 48.0% from the field and 48.4% from 3 for the season overall). So I think he will certainly be able to regain his ACC form, but I think it is highly unlikely that he'll regain his pre-ACC form.

I'm not even talking solely about his 3-pt shooting. He's an excellent defender and emotional spark plug for this team. Plus, he's another threat from 3 and allows for much better spacing on the floor. His threat from 3 opens up things for the bigs. He's also a very good FT shooter. He adds so much to this team besides his 3-point shooting. I mean, he averaged nearly 14 points/game. But I understand your point in that his play hasn't been as spectacular as it was in the beginning of the year.

[CDu]

I'm not even talking solely about his 3-pt shooting. He's an excellent defender and emotional spark plug for this team. Plus, he's another threat from 3 and allows for much better spacing on the floor. His threat from 3 opens up things for the bigs. He's also a very good FT shooter. He adds so much to this team besides his 3-point shooting. I mean, he averaged nearly 14 points/game. But I understand your point in that his play hasn't been as spectacular as it was in the beginning of the year.

I think if he's back by the NCAA Tourney, you'll be fine. Maybe not Final Four fine (because I think Anderson and Gill were playing way over their heads early this year), but definitely second-weekend fine. And if you're second-weekend fine, you have a legit shot at the Final Four anyway.

If he doesn't return until the second weekend of the tourney (which would seem to be the absolute worst case as that is almost 7 weeks), then I agree that there is reason for concern. But I'd guess that, if he is back before the tourney, then UVa's overall chances aren't affected too much.

And who knows? Maybe the team benefits from his absence in terms of getting better play out of Nolte, Shayok, and Perrantes, such that when Anderson returns you aren't as reliant on him anyway.