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Duvall
02-04-2015, 05:21 PM
If you have Syracuse in your pretend bracket, take them out. (http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2015/02/syracuse_basketball_self-imposes_postseason_ban_this_year_in_ncaa_investiga tion.html?hootPostID=fd62aab5069444f47ef2cfe03232e 916)


Syracuse University, in response to an NCAA investigation, has self-imposed a ban on its men's basketball team from postseason play this season.

The university announced this afternoon that it had previously notified the NCAA of the ban as part of its pending case before the NCAA Committee on Infractions.

SU imposed the ban "as a further means of acknowledging past mistakes," the university said in a news release.

"I am very disappointed that our basketball team will miss the opportunity to play in the post-season this year," SU basketball coach Jim Boeheim said in the release. "However, I supported this decision and I believe the University is doing the right thing by acknowledging that past mistakes occurred. Our players have faced adversity and challenges before. I know they will rise to this challenge by keeping our program strong and continuing to make our University proud."

Kedsy
02-04-2015, 05:23 PM
If you have Syracuse in your pretend bracket, take them out. (http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2015/02/syracuse_basketball_self-imposes_postseason_ban_this_year_in_ncaa_investiga tion.html?hootPostID=fd62aab5069444f47ef2cfe03232e 916)

They were probably on the wrong side of the bubble anyway.

Duvall
02-04-2015, 05:25 PM
Wow, they aren't even showing up in Greensboro. That's new.

mr. synellinden
02-04-2015, 05:27 PM
SU imposed the ban "as a further means of acknowledging past mistakes," the university said in a news release.

So this year's players get penalized for past mistakes? What mistakes?

Does anyone think Syracuse would take this action if they were ranked #1 and 22-0?

JasonEvans
02-04-2015, 05:29 PM
They were probably on the wrong side of the bubble anyway.

Well, maybe but just barely. It is not like they are having a UConn kind of year and are going to struggle to get to .500. They had a legit chance at the Dance... until they gave it up.

Some other ACC schools must be so puzzled. I mean, why would a school do the right thing and voluntarily impose a penalty when you can just deny, deny, deny in the hope that nothing happens.

-Jason "I think this is a very honorable move by the Orangemen" Evans

superdave
02-04-2015, 05:29 PM
SU imposed the ban "as a further means of acknowledging past mistakes," the university said in a news release.

So this year's players get penalized for past mistakes? What mistakes?

Does anyone think Syracuse would take this action if they were ranked #1 and 22-0?

Does this have to do with Bernie Fine?

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-04-2015, 05:36 PM
Does this mean there will be five byes in greensboro? How will that work will the ACC change the format?

OldPhiKap
02-04-2015, 05:39 PM
And yet, UNC will play in both post-season tournaments. SMH. Shameless, classless. (Double entendre intentional)

freshmanjs
02-04-2015, 05:39 PM
Could the ACCT be part of the "season"? And that only the NCAAT or NIT or other are "post-season"?

i suppose anything is possible but the article says they are not participating in ACCT.

DU82
02-04-2015, 05:40 PM
Does this mean there will be five byes in greensboro? How will that work will the ACC change the format?

I'd guess that Syracuse goes to slot 15, and whoever would have played 15 on Tuesday (seed 10) gets through to Wednesday. That means only two games on Tuesday.

gep
02-04-2015, 05:41 PM
I tried to delete my post after re-reading the article... but too late... Yes, the article said the ACCT was included in the ban.

Duvall
02-04-2015, 05:43 PM
Does this mean there will be five byes in greensboro? How will that work will the ACC change the format?

Two games Tuesday, with 11 playing 14 and 12 playing 13. Then the winners take on the 5 seed and 6 seed on Wednesday.

andyw715
02-04-2015, 05:46 PM
Typically a post season ban (NCAAT) is also enforced at the conference level. (Ie what would happen if monkeys flew out if my butt and Cuse won the ACCT?)

Given the supposed strength of our incoming class next year thus self imposed ban might have been taken regardless of our record.

As far as the why. There was issues with Fab Melo / Southerland. Also something with local YMCA. Not sure how those factored in.

It will be interesting to see what other concessions were made.

Go Cuse! So you think tix for Cuse @ duke will get any cheaper? I'd like to go again.

rasputin
02-04-2015, 05:55 PM
Typically a post season ban (NCAAT) is also enforced at the conference level. (Ie what would happen if monkeys flew out if my butt and Cuse won the ACCT?)

Given the supposed strength of our incoming class next year thus self imposed ban might have been taken regardless of our record.

As far as the why. There was issues with Fab Melo / Southerland. Also something with local YMCA. Not sure how those factored in.

It will be interesting to see what other concessions were made.

Go Cuse! So you think tix for Cuse @ duke will get any cheaper? I'd like to go again.

I read somewhere that an Atlantic Sun Conference team (I think it's Northern Kentucky) is not eligible for "postseason" but can play in the conference tournament, and if they were to win it the automatic bid would go to the #1 seed or some such. Seems strange to me.

andyw715
02-04-2015, 05:57 PM
I think the ACC would follow in lockstep with the NCAA if it came down from them.
This is also a PR move to spin tomorrows(?) announcement by the NCAA.

andyw715
02-04-2015, 05:59 PM
FYI Syracuse started this by opening there own investigation in 2007. It's only taken 8 friggin years for the NCAA to sort it out?

Imagine how long it will take for the UNC mess.

Duvall
02-04-2015, 06:06 PM
Well, maybe but just barely. It is not like they are having a UConn kind of year and are going to struggle to get to .500. They had a legit chance at the Dance... until they gave it up.

Some other ACC schools must be so puzzled. I mean, why would a school do the right thing and voluntarily impose a penalty when you can just deny, deny, deny in the hope that nothing happens.

-Jason "I think this is a very honorable move by the Orangemen" Evans

Honorable perhaps, but also kind of a sucker play. You just don't know how things will play out. Syracuse could get slammed anyway after the self-imposed ban.

andyw715
02-04-2015, 06:12 PM
I would think that if th NCAA is thinking more than 1 year then Cuse would self impose longer.

Scholarships/vacated wins/fines/negotiated personnel changes are in the cards.

Duvall
02-04-2015, 06:17 PM
Your new ACC Tournament format. (http://platform-origin.silverchalice.co/v3/images/contents/54d2a199e4b06a5d7d69d85c)

Duke95
02-04-2015, 06:24 PM
Well, maybe but just barely. It is not like they are having a UConn kind of year and are going to struggle to get to .500. They had a legit chance at the Dance... until they gave it up.

Some other ACC schools must be so puzzled. I mean, why would a school do the right thing and voluntarily impose a penalty when you can just deny, deny, deny in the hope that nothing happens.

-Jason "I think this is a very honorable move by the Orangemen" Evans

If it's UNC to whom you're referring, I think they're still stuck at "Syr" and trying to sound out the rest of the word to find out what school it is.

DU82
02-04-2015, 06:52 PM
So, will Jim B. vacate any wins? I think he needs to vacate about 100 or so.

theschwartz
02-04-2015, 07:06 PM
I'd be interested to see how this new development impacts Syracuse's squad the rest of the year, whether they mail it in or keep fighting. I'm sure Boeheim will keep them motivated and maybe even get them playing angry, especially vs. Duke. I'd venture to say 2 of our 5 toughest matchups the rest of the way are against the Orangemen so I'm very curious to see how they respond to this ban.

andyw715
02-04-2015, 07:20 PM
I would hope they play well and give it their all for Christmas at least. Kinda feel bad for him. But his ticket to NBA is punched and it'll be nice hearing his name for the next 10 or so years.

OldPhiKap
02-04-2015, 07:55 PM
I know that Jimmy B hates Greensboro and all, but damn -- isn't this a little extreme?

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-04-2015, 09:13 PM
So, does this make things even tougher for the CHeats? Another school setting a pecedent for punishment. And whatever Cuse did has to pale in comparison to the CHeaters' 20 year scheme.

dukelifer
02-04-2015, 09:16 PM
I'd be interested to see how this new development impacts Syracuse's squad the rest of the year, whether they mail it in or keep fighting. I'm sure Boeheim will keep them motivated and maybe even get them playing angry, especially vs. Duke. I'd venture to say 2 of our 5 toughest matchups the rest of the way are against the Orangemen so I'm very curious to see how they respond to this ban.

No doubt that they will play their best games against Duke and not care about the others. You only get on Sports Center if you beat Duke.

FerryFor50
02-04-2015, 09:22 PM
I always find it funny when a school self-imposes during a season where they are pretty much out of any consideration for postseason play anyway.

I mean, they *might* have made the tourny on name alone, but they'd have been an early exit.

Otherwise, NIT.

Not really a huge punishment. Wonder if the NCAA will append.

BD80
02-04-2015, 09:30 PM
... Some other ACC schools must be so puzzled. I mean, why would a school do the right thing and voluntarily impose a penalty when you can just deny, deny, deny in the hope that nothing happens.

-Jason "I think this is a very honorable move by the Orangemen" Evans

Actually, unc is catching on. They are willing to let the Orange miss the next several postseasons as a voluntary penalty for the AFAM shenanigans.

Wander
02-04-2015, 10:20 PM
I think Syracuse was on the right side of the bubble. But now it's entirely possible that the ACC gets in 5 teams with fairly high seeds, and no one else.

cspan37421
02-04-2015, 10:33 PM
"Mistakes were made, but not by me."

Coach B., Carol Tavris & Elliot Aaronson called, and they want their book title back.

So what is Syracuse admitting to, exactly? Jeez.

-bdbd
02-04-2015, 10:58 PM
I'd be interested to see how this new development impacts Syracuse's squad the rest of the year, whether they mail it in or keep fighting. I'm sure Boeheim will keep them motivated and maybe even get them playing angry, especially vs. Duke. I'd venture to say 2 of our 5 toughest matchups the rest of the way are against the Orangemen so I'm very curious to see how they respond to this ban.

Just worried that they'll treat the Duke game like their own "championship opportunity."

-jk
02-04-2015, 11:37 PM
Just worried that they'll treat the Duke game like their own "championship opportunity."

Doesn't everyone?

-jk

throatybeard
02-05-2015, 08:31 AM
The conference tournaments have just gotten totally stupid as it is.

Stop at twelve. You have to make the top twelve to qualify for the conference tournament. No one wanted to see the 13th-15th teams play again anyway, and I doubt the Mouse loses much money by not televising the lost games.

dudog84
02-05-2015, 09:15 AM
While part of me would like to applaud Syracuse for their pro-active approach, it is tempered greatly by knowing they had virtually no chance of making the NCAA Tournament this year. They've lost to every ranked team they've played, and have only played three. Their ACC schedule is incredibly back-loaded. In their last 7 games they play Duke twice, and also Virginia, Louisville, and Notre Dame. So taking themselves out of the post-season...big whoop.

Even so, what strikes me the most about this situation is the contrast between how Syracuse is handling their issues, and how UNC is.

G man
02-05-2015, 10:44 AM
While part of me would like to applaud Syracuse for their pro-active approach, it is tempered greatly by knowing they had virtually no chance of making the NCAA Tournament this year. They've lost to every ranked team they've played, and have only played three. Their ACC schedule is incredibly back-loaded. In their last 7 games they play Duke twice, and also Virginia, Louisville, and Notre Dame. So taking themselves out of the post-season...big whoop.

Even so, what strikes me the most about this situation is the contrast between how Syracuse is handling their issues, and how UNC is.

I agree with the thought above. It does blow my mind though that it was apparent that the NCAA was going to go after the Cuse, but they found unc to be in compliance. What a joke!

pfrduke
02-05-2015, 11:01 AM
'Cuse isn't going to the NCAA tourn, nor the ACCT. My gut feeling.

This post proved awfully prescient.

77devil
02-05-2015, 11:06 AM
The conference tournaments have just gotten totally stupid as it is.

Stop at twelve. You have to make the top twelve to qualify for the conference tournament. No one wanted to see the 13th-15th teams play again anyway, and I doubt the Mouse loses much money by not televising the lost games.

I agree with this but can hear the complaints from #13 how the unbalanced schedule favored #12.

andyw715
02-05-2015, 11:37 AM
So, will Jim B. vacate any wins? I think he needs to vacate about 100 or so.

100 is a bit high :)
I would start with at least 14.

throatybeard
02-05-2015, 11:52 AM
I agree with this but can hear the complaints from #13 how the unbalanced schedule favored #12.

I think a fairly effective rebuttal to this would be "yeah, well then how about you finish high enough that you should even be in this conference?"

FerryFor50
02-05-2015, 12:27 PM
100 is a bit high :)
I would start with at least 14.

So that means Hood *did* get fouled last year? SWEET

DukieInKansas
02-05-2015, 12:37 PM
If it's UNC to whom you're referring, I think they're still stuck at "Syr" and trying to sound out the rest of the word to find out what school it is.

Should we give them a hint? It is NOT in Swahili. :D

Olympic Fan
02-05-2015, 01:12 PM
I know that Jimmy B hates Greensboro and all, but damn -- isn't this a little extreme?

You joke, but there is something to this comment.

I understand that Syracuse self-penalized now, when they are mediocre, to avoid losing a postseason chance next year when, presumably, the Orange will be better.

But no NCAA penalty includes the conference tournament -- to the NCAA, its actually part of the regular season. Teams with postseason bans play in the conference tournament all the time -- in fact, NC State has won the ACC three times when it was on probation and couldn't play in postseason -- 1955, 1959 and 1973. Duke got to make its first NCAA trip in 1955 when State won the ACC Tournament, but couldn't represent the league.

In 1993, Syracuse earned a postseason ban and didn't go to the NCAA or NIT with a 20-9 team. But that team DID play in the Big East Tournament.

Why then and why not now?

My belief is that OldPhiKap is right and Boeheim just doesn't want to return to Greensboro. So that's not really part of their "penalty" -- it's an excuse to dodge an unwelcome obligation.

So what if it hurts the ACC (the league will lose money by having one less game to offer ESPN in the tournament)? Boeheim won't have to eat at Denny's again.

devildeac
02-05-2015, 01:28 PM
You joke, but there is something to this comment.

I understand that Syracuse self-penalized now, when they are mediocre, to avoid losing a postseason chance next year when, presumably, the Orange will be better.

But no NCAA penalty includes the conference tournament -- to the NCAA, its actually part of the regular season. Teams with postseason bans play in the conference tournament all the time -- in fact, NC State has won the ACC three times when it was on probation and couldn't play in postseason -- 1955, 1959 and 1973. Duke got to make its first NCAA trip in 1955 when State won the ACC Tournament, but couldn't represent the league.

In 1993, Syracuse earned a postseason ban and didn't go to the NCAA or NIT with a 20-9 team. But that team DID play in the Big East Tournament.

Why then and why not now?

My belief is that OldPhiKap is right and Boeheim just doesn't want to return to Greensboro. So that's not really part of their "penalty" -- it's an excuse to dodge an unwelcome obligation.

So what if it hurts the ACC (the league will lose money by having one less game to offer ESPN in the tournament)? Boeheim won't have to eat at Denny's again.

Somebody must have forgotten to tell him about Stamey's:rolleyes:.;)

Olympic Fan
02-05-2015, 02:11 PM
You joke, but there is something to this comment.

I understand that Syracuse self-penalized now, when they are mediocre, to avoid losing a postseason chance next year when, presumably, the Orange will be better.

But no NCAA penalty includes the conference tournament -- to the NCAA, its actually part of the regular season. Teams with postseason bans play in the conference tournament all the time -- in fact, NC State has won the ACC three times when it was on probation and couldn't play in postseason -- 1955, 1959 and 1973. Duke got to make its first NCAA trip in 1955 when State won the ACC Tournament, but couldn't represent the league.

In 1993, Syracuse earned a postseason ban and didn't go to the NCAA or NIT with a 20-9 team. But that team DID play in the Big East Tournament.

Why then and why not now?

My belief is that OldPhiKap is right and Boeheim just doesn't want to return to Greensboro. So that's not really part of their "penalty" -- it's an excuse to dodge an unwelcome obligation.

So what if it hurts the ACC (the league will lose money by having one less game to offer ESPN in the tournament)? Boeheim won't have to eat at Denny's again.


Mea Culpa ... I just found out that the ACC recently enacted a rule that says if you are ineligible for postseason, you are ineligible for any ACC championship event -- that applies to all sports.

So I apologize for my comments about Boeheim and his dislike of Greensboro. That dislike is real, but it had nothing to do with the decision not to play in Greensboro.

Lar77
02-05-2015, 04:41 PM
The conference tournaments have just gotten totally stupid as it is.

Stop at twelve. You have to make the top twelve to qualify for the conference tournament. No one wanted to see the 13th-15th teams play again anyway, and I doubt the Mouse loses much money by not televising the lost games.

Make the regular season mean something. The ACC tournament has gotten unwieldy and has lost some of its attraction. Go back to 8 teams or 12 with the byes if you have to spread the love.

wgl1228
02-05-2015, 04:45 PM
Oh well. I got my ACC Tourney tickets today for face value because of this.

peterjswift
02-06-2015, 09:51 AM
I made the mistake of listening to some ESPN talk radio yesterday. I don't remember who it was, but I remember absolute Syracuse bashing and that the idea of "self imposed" punishments are absurd, and compared it to the hosts' children self-imposing their own punishments for disobedience. They were talking as if it was ludicrous.

And all I could think is: "They must not have children."

How wonderful would it be if your children recognized their disobedience and went and gave themselves a timeout or locked up their toys as a punishment? That would be amazing!

Obviously the problem lies in the idea that any self-punishment is going to be self-serving and less egregious than the authority figure would dole out. And this may be true! I can imagine my daughters taking away their least favorite toys and saying: "see, I've been punished!" But at the same time, I would love if they even did that...it is recognition of the problem, and that is a critical part of the discipline process. Certainly a part of self-imposed punishments are self-interested - hoping that the authority will either ignore or have less strict punishments as a result....but I still think it is a smart and great thing to do.

That being said, the NCAA will surely recognize that the impact of a post-season ban this season would be dramatically different than other seasons...but that doesn't mean it is no punishment at all. Missing the NIT or ACCT is a big deal for developing players, and surely whatever punishment the NCAA ultimately doles out will take into account what has already been assessed.

All of this is bad news for the NCAA, who is already struggling to maintain any semblance of authority. How pissed is the SU fanbase going to be when the NCAA tacks on another year or two to this ban? And/or vacates wins? SU won't accept those punishments without a fight, and the fight will point out some of the crucial problems with the NCAA - that it is inconsistent and slow at punishing schools....and that its punishment mechanisms are poorly constructed at best, and hurt student-athletes and institutions more than they impact those who actually benefited from any malfeasance.

Personally - I commend SU for taking action. I don't like the post-season ban, but given what the NCAA has done, I think it makes sense that it is where SU would start. It is hard to predict anything with the NCAA. They are wildly inconsistent and poorly managed. Certainly it would be better for SU to enact harsher self-imposed punishments...but why would they when the authority in charge may not do anything?

If I, going back to the original children analogy, punish my children with nothing but "timeouts" - and the same punishment sometimes is a 10 second time out and other times is an hour timeout for the same act of disobedience, or sometimes it is even ignored entirely....how would they ever learn how to self-impose punishments? Consistency and discipline go hand in hand, and NCAA's inconsistency leaves the Orange in a gray area where they can't even know what an appropriate punishment is.

SCMatt33
03-06-2015, 09:51 AM
Official word from the NCAA is coming at 1PM today. (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25095290/ncaa-to-disclose-findings-into-syracuse-investigation-on-friday) It will be interesting to see whether they add any further penalties and exactly what they found.