2015 Midseason All-ACC

[vick]

In the spirit of pointless arguments, here is a first-team All-ACC team from the News and Observer (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02/01/4523648_short-saturday-monday-turnaround.html?rh=1) at the midpoint of the ACC season:


G: Jerian Grant, Notre Dame

G: Terry Rozier, Louisville

F: Justin Anderson, Virginia

F: Rakeem Christmas, Syracuse

F: Jahlil Okafor, Duke



Not a bad list to me, although I'd probably have found a place for Chris Jones at Louisville--sure he's not too likely to shoot 48+% on threes for the whole season, but he's been great to date. Grant's a better player overall but not sure he's been as strong in the ACC season alone, though I certainly could see the argument in his favor. Just outside, looking in: Brogdon, Paige, Lacey, maybe Harrell?

[OldPhiKap]

In the spirit of pointless arguments, here is a first-team All-ACC team from the News and Observer (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02/01/4523648_short-saturday-monday-turnaround.html?rh=1) at the midpoint of the ACC season:



Not a bad list to me, although I'd probably have found a place for Chris Jones at Louisville--sure he's not too likely to shoot 48+% on threes for the whole season, but he's been great to date. Grant's a better player overall but not sure he's been as strong in the ACC season alone, though I certainly could see the argument in his favor. Just outside, looking in: Brogdon, Paige, Lacey, maybe Harrell?

If I'm picking teams, I want me some Brogdon.

[vick]

If I'm picking teams, I want me some Brogdon.

Considering the (wholly-justified) ribbing I took last year for my "man-crush" on Brodgon, you'll get no complaints from me...

[FerryFor50]

Considering the (wholly-justified) ribbing I took last year for my "man-crush" on Brodgon, you'll get no complaints from me...

You were just ahead of your time.

He's the real deal this season. :)

[CDu]

In the spirit of pointless arguments, here is a first-team All-ACC team from the News and Observer (http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/02/01/4523648_short-saturday-monday-turnaround.html?rh=1) at the midpoint of the ACC season:



Not a bad list to me, although I'd probably have found a place for Chris Jones at Louisville--sure he's not too likely to shoot 48+% on threes for the whole season, but he's been great to date. Grant's a better player overall but not sure he's been as strong in the ACC season alone, though I certainly could see the argument in his favor. Just outside, looking in: Brogdon, Paige, Lacey, maybe Harrell?

Hard to argue with Grant's 17.1 ppg, 6.4 apg, and 49.6 fg% in ACC play.

As for the next group, I would throw Olivier Hanlan's name in the mix. He has been terrific in ACC play; he just happens to have a bad team around him (which makes his terrific play more impressive, in my opinion).

[OldPhiKap]

With 15 teams, does the ACC need to start naming two separate division teams?

[jv001]

With 15 teams, does the ACC need to start naming two separate division teams?

As I was reading this thread, the first thing I thought of was the ACC needs 10 players and then I thought maybe 10 wasn't enough spots. It seems to me this year there are more comparable players than in the past. Maybe that's because there's no clear cut favorite player to win MVP, I guess Jahlil would be the leading candidate with Grant just inches behind. GoDuke!

[wgl1228]

We can argue Grant/Okafor all day for player of the year so far but I don't agree with his statement that Grant has single-handedly made ND successful (He's a key piece to complete the puzzle). It's an experienced team and players like Connaughton are exceptional. To be honest I'd rather have him than Grant.

[Olympic Fan]

My question about the N&O team is why they list Christmas and Okafor as forwards?

Both play center for their respective teams and are as close to pure college centers as you can get, Why are they forwards?

Otherwise, I don't have a problem with the first team. I agree that Malcolm Brogdein and Montrez Harrell are right on the edge, but they'd be my 6th and 7th men at the moment. Chris Jones is interesting -- he was painfully inefficient in pre-ACC play, but since conference play has started, he's been awesome. And don't overlook Tyus Jones and Quinn Cook. But there are a lot of second-third team candidates -- Lacy at State, Hanlon at BC, Thomas at Wake, Paige at UNC ...

[luvdahops]

We can argue Grant/Okafor all day for player of the year so far but I don't agree with his statement that Grant has single-handedly made ND successful (He's a key piece to complete the puzzle). It's an experienced team and players like Connaughton are exceptional. To be honest I'd rather have him than Grant.

Seriously? ND fell off a cliff last year once Grant was suspended. And they were experienced then, too, with a 4-year starter in guard Eric Atkins and a pair of seniors starting upfront. I love Connaughton as a player, and would take him on my team any day of the week, but it is Grant's presence - his scoring and especially his playmaking - that has raised ND to Top 10 status.

[CDu]

Seriously? ND fell off a cliff last year once Grant was suspended. And they were experienced then, too, with a 4-year starter in guard Eric Atkins and a pair of seniors starting upfront. I love Connaughton as a player, and would take him on my team any day of the week, but it is Grant's presence - his scoring and especially his playmaking - that has raised ND to Top 10 status.

I think everyone agrees that Grant is by far their most important player. The previous poster's point is that he has a lot more help than, say, Olivier Hanlan of BC.

[luvdahops]

I think everyone agrees that Grant is by far their most important player. The previous poster's point is that he has a lot more help than, say, Olivier Hanlan of BC.

I read it differently - thought his point was that Grant was not that important, and that he would rather have Connaughton. Which is silly. My point is that Grant's presence has been the primary difference between 6-12, 15-17 a year ago and the current Top 10 ranking. Single-handedly responsible for that success? Perhaps a mild exaggeration, but at least directionally correct in my view.

Comparing Grant and Hanlon is a little tougher. ND certainly has better talent around Grant, but Hanlon - as good as he is - has never seemed to raise his teammates' games the way Grant does, or have the same moxie in crunch time. Just my 2 cents though.

[CDu]

I read it differently - thought his point was that Grant was not that important, and that he would rather have Connaughton. Which is silly. My point is that Grant's presence has been the primary difference between 6-12, 15-17 a year ago and the current Top 10 ranking. Single-handedly responsible for that success? Perhaps a mild exaggeration, but at least directionally correct in my view.

Comparing Grant and Hanlon is a little tougher. ND certainly has better talent around Grant, but Hanlon - as good as he is - has never seemed to raise his teammates' games the way Grant does, or have the same moxie in crunch time. Just my 2 cents though.

You're mostly right - I apparently glossed over the last sentence. I think he was saying Grant IS very important, but that Connaughton is more important. I am not sure whether I agree disagree with that, but I don't think it is irrelevant to note that Connaughton has improved A LOT since last year. He's shooting 8 percentage points better from 3, he is averaging 1.3 more rebounds in 2.8 fewer minutes. The improvement of Connaughton, Auguste (who has doubled his scoring from last year while also shooting 12 percentage points higher), and Jackson (also doubled his scoring is shooting 10 percentage points better) is a big part of why they are good this year but were not last year, along with replacing the plodding Sherman and Knight with an athletic Auguste. One could certainly argue that Grant is effectively a slightly better version of Eric Atkins (who averaged 14 points and 5 assists last year as the lead guard for the Irish).

[luvdahops]

You're mostly right - I apparently glossed over the last sentence. I think he was saying Grant IS very important, but that Connaughton is more important. I am not sure whether I agree disagree with that, but I don't think it is irrelevant to note that Connaughton has improved A LOT since last year. He's shooting 8 percentage points better from 3, he is averaging 1.3 more rebounds in 2.8 fewer minutes. The improvement of Connaughton, Auguste (who has doubled his scoring from last year while also shooting 12 percentage points higher), and Jackson (also doubled his scoring is shooting 10 percentage points better) is a big part of why they are good this year but were not last year, along with replacing the plodding Sherman and Knight with an athletic Auguste. One could certainly argue that Grant is effectively a slightly better version of Eric Atkins (who averaged 14 points and 5 assists last year as the lead guard for the Irish).

Metrics would suggest that Grant is a MUCH more effective player than Atkins based on PER (28.2 vs. 16.5), OER (130.9 vs. 113.2) and win shares per 40 minutes (.260 vs. .104). They would also suggest that Connaughton has not improved THAT MUCH (PER of 22.3 vs. 20.4, OER of 127.2 vs. 125.6 and win shares per 40 of .202 vs. .151). I agree that swapping out the plodders for Auguste, as has moving Connaughton to a full-time PF (which is a big reason for the bump in rpg), but I suspect Mike Brey would tell you that Grant's playmaking has more than a little to do with the improved shooting and scoring figures you note for Connaughton, Auguste and Jackson. I watch ND fairly often (and not just since they joined the ACC), and Grant is much better at driving, drawing and dishing than Atkins ever was.

[CDu]

Metrics would suggest that Grant is a MUCH more effective player than Atkins based on PER (28.2 vs. 16.5), OER (130.9 vs. 113.2) and win shares per 40 minutes (.260 vs. .104). They would also suggest that Connaughton has not improved THAT MUCH (PER of 22.3 vs. 20.4, OER of 127.2 vs. 125.6 and win shares per 40 of .202 vs. .151). I agree that swapping out the plodders for Auguste, as has moving Connaughton to a full-time PF (which is a big reason for the bump in rpg), but I suspect Mike Brey would tell you that Grant's playmaking has more than a little to do with the improved shooting and scoring figures you note for Connaughton, Auguste and Jackson. I watch ND fairly often (and not just since they joined the ACC), and Grant is much better at driving, drawing and dishing than Atkins ever was.

I am certainly not saying that Grant is not their most important player. I think he may be one of the 5 best players in college basketball right now. I'm just saying that I'm not sure how much of their improvement is solely due to Grant and how much is due to the other guys getting better. The two are certainly correlated, and I'm just not sure which is the cause and which is the effect.

[luvdahops]

I am certainly not saying that Grant is not their most important player. I think he may be one of the 5 best players in college basketball right now. I'm just saying that I'm not sure how much of their improvement is solely due to Grant and how much is due to the other guys getting better. The two are certainly correlated, and I'm just not sure which is the cause and which is the effect.

Fair enough. I think we may a few shades of gray apart on this, but that's all.

[CDu]

Fair enough. I think we may a few shades of gray apart on this, but that's all.

I agree. And I think we agree completely on how good Grant is (really freaking good), which is the main point.

[Tripping William]

Fair enough. I think we may a few shades of gray apart on this, but that's all.

Hopefully fewer than 50, for all our sakes . . . . :o

(FWIW: I agree that Jerian Grant is fantastic, and merits some serious ACC POY consideration, at least as of today.)

[JNort]

Haven't seen him mentioned but Meeks from UNC has been stellar. Imo Paige has looked really average this year and Meeks is the true heart of Carolinas team

Don't overreact cause this is just off the top of my head with no stats in front of me but Paige doesn't deserve 1st team or 2nd team. Borderline 3rd team right now

[Duke95]

With 15 teams, does the ACC need to start naming two separate division teams?

This. I think 2 teams are appropriate here.