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pfrduke
02-01-2015, 11:37 PM
Lots of activity in the conference this past week. Up at the top, each of the top level teams suffered a loss (save Louisville). In the middle, Miami and State had disastrous (and near-disastrous) weeks, respectively, with the Canes dropping games to Tech and FSU and State getting whooped at home by Clemson before barely, barely sneaking past Tech this weekend. The top 5 still remains solid in terms of tournament prospects, but the middle went just 2-5 with only Pittsburgh - a very long shot tournament participant in any event - getting a decent win (one that was balanced out by a loss to Virginia Tech).

This week puts the tournament hopefuls in lots of action against each other. It's huge for UVA - they travel to UNC on Monday before hosting Louisville on the weekend. For Carolina, the Virginia game is the last one at home for two weeks, as the weekend kicks off a three-game road trip. Notre Dame and Duke get a rematch in Durham over the weekend. And Louisville has a big week away from the YUM!, traveling to Miami on Tuesday before heading to Charlottesville.

Once again, this is a big sorting week at the top of the conference.

Monday just like last week starts things off in Chapel Hill. Carolina must have been drooling at the way Duke beat UVA's defense down the court to score in transition, but the 'Hoos also know that's UNC's M.O., so I expect them to be more solid on that ground. UVA's ability to control the glass may be key, as UNC doesn't make a ton of first shots (and figures to have even more trouble doing that against the Cavaliers' defense).

[11]North Carolina hosts [2]Virginia (7:00, ESPN)
[93]Pittsburgh hosts [236]Bryant (7:00, ESPN3)

Tuesday has the Louisville/Miami matchup as the headliner. The national TV game, however, is Syracuse-Virginia Tech. The Orange has played the weakest schedule in conference play to date and that will only be made weaker by a home game against the Hokies. Their reckoning will come.

[62]Miami hosts [10]Louisville (8:00, ESPN3)
[111]Wake Forest hosts [53]NC State (8:00, ESPN3)
[65]Syracuse hosts [160]Virginia Tech (9:00, ESPNU)

Wednesday has Duke and Notre Dame both getting home warmups before the weekend rematch.

[15]Notre Dame hosts [120]Boston College (7:00, ESPN3)
[7]Duke hosts [82]Georgia Tech* (7:00, ESPN2)
[122]Florida State hosts [92]Clemson (9:00, ESPN3)

*Georgia Tech is Pomeroy's highest-rated sub-.500 team. Aside from getting absolutely humiliated by Virginia, their conference losses are by 7 (in double OT), 1, 7, 3, 5, 2, and 1 (in OT). Make of that what you will.

Thursday is dark

Friday is dark

Saturday has a couple great matchups between current top 10 teams (who probably will all still be top 10 teams when the new polls come out). Duke and Notre Dame get things started early, while Charlottesville hosts another Saturday night affair, this time against the Cardinals. In slightly lesser action, Syracuse and Pitt have a big game for sorting purposes below the top 5.

[82]Georgia Tech hosts [111]Wake Forest (12:00, ESPN3)
[7]Duke hosts [15]Notre Dame (1:00, CBS)
[160]Virginia Tech hosts [122]Florida State (3:00, ESPN3)
[120]Boston College hosts [11]North Carolina (3:00, ESPN3)
[93]Pittsburgh hosts [65]Syracuse (4:00, ESPN2)
[2]Virginia hosts [10]Louisville (7:00, ESPN)

Sunday

[62]Miami hosts [92]Clemson (6:30, ESPNU)

ACC Non-Conference Record: 146-45
ACC Record vs. BCS: 27-26

Bob Green
02-02-2015, 05:09 AM
While winning the ACC regular season is still a possibility, the more important goal of finishing in the top four to secure a double bye into the quarterfinals of the ACCT will be impacted by three games featuring two teams currently in spots 1 - 5:

Monday: Virginia (1) at North Carolina (3)
Saturday: Notre Dame (2) at Duke (5)
Louisville (4) at Virginia (1)

If Duke wins their games against Georgia Tech and Notre Dame, they will gain ground on the losers of the two other games. There could be a four way tie for 2nd place by the end of the week. Actually, if Syracuse wins their two games there could be a five way tie. But first things first, let's focus on beating Georgia Tech on Wednesday.

gumbomoop
02-02-2015, 10:43 AM
While winning the ACC regular season is still a possibility, the more important goal of finishing in the top four to secure a double bye into the quarterfinals of the ACCT will be impacted by three games featuring two teams currently in spots 1 - 5:

Monday: Virginia (1) at North Carolina (3)
Saturday: Notre Dame (2) at Duke (5)
Louisville (4) at Virginia (1)

Amen, amen, eyes on this very important "consolation prize." Go Cavs. Hoos, too.

roywhite
02-02-2015, 12:12 PM
Amen, amen, eyes on this very important "consolation prize." Go Cavs. Hoos, too.

Yeah, that's my rooting interest in this one. And I think a UVa prediction makes sense.

The Cavs don't do much to beat themselves; the Heels do, by turning the ball over and lacking consistent outside shooting. It's hard for me to imagine the Heels going on a scoring streak like we did late-game vs Virginia. Paige could get hot, but the Cavs can likely defend well vs one good outside shooter. I'll be interested to see how each of these teams comes out after tough weekend losses.

CDu
02-02-2015, 12:29 PM
Yeah, that's my rooting interest in this one. And I think a UVa prediction makes sense.

The Cavs don't do much to beat themselves; the Heels do, by turning the ball over and lacking consistent outside shooting. It's hard for me to imagine the Heels going on a scoring streak like we did late-game vs Virginia. Paige could get hot, but the Cavs can likely defend well vs one good outside shooter. I'll be interested to see how each of these teams comes out after tough weekend losses.

Yeah, it is hard for me to see UNC beating a big, physical, well-disciplined defensive team. They seem to feast on teams making mistakes on both ends of the floor (on defense by forcing turnovers and on offense through back-door plays and offensive rebounds).

UVa will make it a point to take away Meeks and Johnson, will key in on Paige, and will force UNC to beat them from the perimeter (most likely with guys not named Paige. And on the other end, they take GREAT care of the ball and are a good offensive team.

UNC could certainly pull the upset, but it seems that UVa should be the favorite in this one (even though it is in NC) based on the matchups.

I'll be wearing my orange and blue (well, it's Chicago Bears gear, but it will serve its purpose for this night) in hopes of a Heel loss.

jv001
02-02-2015, 12:43 PM
If Duke can't win the regular season, I hope the Cavaliers win it. Then Duke wins the real ACC championship, the ACCT, get's a #1 seed or at worst a #2 seed that's not in Kentucky's bracket. Long way to go. GoDuke!

gam7
02-02-2015, 12:43 PM
Yeah, it is hard for me to see UNC beating a big, physical, well-disciplined defensive team. They seem to feast on teams making mistakes on both ends of the floor (on defense by forcing turnovers and on offense through back-door plays and offensive rebounds).

UVa will make it a point to take away Meeks and Johnson, will key in on Paige, and will force UNC to beat them from the perimeter (most likely with guys not named Paige. And on the other end, they take GREAT care of the ball and are a good offensive team.

UNC could certainly pull the upset, but it seems that UVa should be the favorite in this one (even though it is in NC) based on the matchups.

I'll be wearing my orange and blue (well, it's Chicago Bears gear, but it will serve its purpose for this night) in hopes of a Heel loss.

Agree with the analysis assuming it remains a half-court game. Duke had great success beating UVa down the court before it was set (first half especially). UNC is very quick getting up court when they push, even off of made baskets. If they can push like we did, they'll have some quick strikes that may make it a tight game at the end. Unfortunately for UNC, we exposed that potential weakness before UNC could, so my guess is UVa shores it up. Wahoo Wah!

Duvall
02-02-2015, 12:45 PM
If Duke can't win the regular season, I hope the Cavaliers win it. Then Duke wins the real ACC championship, the ACCT, get's a #1 seed or at worst a #2 seed that's not in Kentucky's bracket. Long way to go. GoDuke!

I mean, come on. If Duke is a #2 seed (or a #3 seed, or...) they'll be in Kentucky's bracket. For "geographic" reasons, of course.

jv001
02-02-2015, 12:50 PM
I mean, come on. If Duke is a #2 seed (or a #3 seed, or...) they'll be in Kentucky's bracket. For "geographic" reasons, of course.

You're probably right, the committee can't resist the temptation. :cool: GoDuke!

gumbomoop
02-02-2015, 01:34 PM
Paige could get hot, but the Cavs can likely defend well vs one good outside shooter.


UVa will make it a point to take away Meeks and Johnson, will key in on Paige, and will force UNC to beat them from the perimeter most likely with guys not named Paige.

I hesitate to bring this up, but Heels do have one guy not named Paige who's been a very good 3-bomber lately: Nate Britt. Maybe his 6 for 10 from 3-land in last 2 games is total fluke, but he looked pretty confident to me, smooth release and arc. We have to consider the possibility that Wheat was spot on, that Britt is a good backup PG. I'll hope the Hoos learned from Duke game that short guys can get hot, and stick with both Paige and Britt. And don't foul 'em.

Don't mind them welcoming a few long shots from Tokoto, which are long shots. His 3-bomb % (35.7) seems inflated, but I suppose the strategy there is for Heels to crash the boards.

Need Wheat and our UVa posters to get in this thread this afternoon. Give us some good tips, maybe get a little ticked at each other. We'll ref and/or take sides.

Tripping William
02-02-2015, 01:37 PM
We'll ref and/or take sides.

Heh. "Sides" (plural). As if . . . . :D

devildeac
02-02-2015, 01:38 PM
I hesitate to bring this up, but Heels do have one guy not named Paige who's been a very good 3-bomber lately: Nate Britt. Maybe his 6 for 10 from 3-land in last 2 games is total fluke, but he looked pretty confident to me, smooth release and arc. We have to consider the possibility that Wheat was spot on, that Britt is a good backup PG. I'll hope the Hoos learned from Duke game that short guys can get hot, and stick with both Paige and Britt. And don't foul 'em.

Don't mind them welcoming a few long shots from Tokoto, which are long shots. His 3-bomb % (35.7) seems inflated, but I suppose the strategy there is for Heels to crash the boards.

Need Wheat and our UVa posters to get in this thread this afternoon. Give us some good tips, maybe get a little ticked at each other. We'll ref and/or take sides.

Tweet!!!

Intentional foul on Wheat (spurious leg kick-out:p). Two shots and the ball to jhmoss1812:o.

roywhite
02-02-2015, 01:59 PM
Tweet!!!

Intentional foul on Wheat (spurious leg kick-out:p). Two shots and the ball to jhmoss1812:o.

Hmmm...strange how this weekend, featuring a Tar Heel blown lead and loss, and a Blue Devil come-from-behind win, was gluten-free on the boards here. ;)

devildeac
02-02-2015, 02:12 PM
Hmmm...strange how this weekend, featuring a Tar Heel blown lead and loss, and a Blue Devil come-from-behind win, was gluten-free on the boards here. ;)

4692

gumbomoop
02-02-2015, 02:52 PM
Heh. "Sides" (plural). As if . . . . :D

Uh, oh. If a Freudian slip, it exposes me as an equally misguided distant cousin of Wheat. I don't think I'm related to Jefferson, though everyone else seems to be.

Troublemaker
02-02-2015, 03:09 PM
Amen, amen, eyes on this very important "consolation prize." Go Cavs. Hoos, too.

I'm with you for tonight since the opponent is UNC. But if you're telling me you would root for UVA against Notre Dame or Louisville, I think you're giving up on the regular season title too quickly.


Agree with the analysis assuming it remains a half-court game. Duke had great success beating UVa down the court before it was set (first half especially). UNC is very quick getting up court when they push, even off of made baskets. If they can push like we did, they'll have some quick strikes that may make it a tight game at the end. Unfortunately for UNC, we exposed that potential weakness before UNC could, so my guess is UVa shores it up. Wahoo Wah!

I agree with this. There was that amazing stat where UVA had only given up 39 transition points all season until Duke scored 14 against them. I think it'll be back to normal for UVA tonight, unfortunately for UNC.

CDu
02-02-2015, 03:20 PM
I'm with you for tonight since the opponent is UNC. But if you're telling me you would root for UVA against Notre Dame or Louisville, I think you're giving up on the regular season title too quickly.

Well, UVa is done playing Notre Dame until the post-season, so basically Louisville (twice) and NC State are our best hopes left to help us chase UVa. I'd say our schedule the rest of the way is about as tough (if not tougher) than UVa's remaining schedule.

gumbomoop
02-02-2015, 03:50 PM
I'm with you for tonight since the opponent is UNC. But if you're telling me you would root for UVA against Notre Dame or Louisville, I think you're giving up on the regular season title too quickly.

I agree with Bob Green [posts# 2&3 above] that our primary goal should be ACCT top 4. The Miami loss shook me, badly.

But the truth is my preferences in the key non-Duke matchups may alter from week to week, even game to game. If UNC wins tonight, followed by a Miami home win tomorrow night v. UL, I'll have to think carefully about UL @ UVa on Sat. But as CDu has just ^ said, at this moment UVa leads Duke by 2, with an easier schedule from here on. I guess they could lose at NCSt and/or 'Cuse.

If results fall wonderfully in our favor the next two weeks, I'll be embarrassed not to have had #1 as my priority.

Olympic Fan
02-02-2015, 05:12 PM
New polls out today -- Duke stayed at No. 4 in the AP, despite the Notre Dame loss (Duke dropped to No. 5 in the coaches).

The AP has Virginia at No. 3 (down from two), Duke at No. 4, Louisville at 9, Notre Dame at 10, UNC at 12 -- so the ACC has four of the top 10 and five of the top 12. No other ACC team even got votes (Miami dropped from No. 23 to not receiving any votes).

Another interesting point -- UNC lost to Louisville and moved up from No. 13 to No. 12 in the poll. Maybe if they lose to Virginia tonight, they'll crack the top 10!

PS Just a stray thought. Does anybody else think it interesting that all three teams that have beaten Duke this season have lost their next game?

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-02-2015, 05:14 PM
New polls out today -- Duke stayed at No. 4 in the AP, despite the Notre Dame loss (Duke dropped to No. 5 in the coaches).

The AP has Virginia at No. 3 (down from two), Duke at No. 4, Louisville at 9, Notre Dame at 10, UNC at 12 -- so the ACC has four of the top 10 and five of the top 12. No other ACC team even got votes (Miami dropped from No. 23 to not receiving any votes).

Another interesting point -- UNC lost to Louisville and moved up from No. 13 to No. 12 in the poll. Maybe if they lose to Virginia tonight, they'll crack the top 10!

PS Just a stray thought. Does anybody else think it interesting that all three teams that have beaten Duke this season have lost their next game?

If they know what's good for them, they will stop! :)

Tripping William
02-02-2015, 05:23 PM
Process question: If Carolina -- a 1-point underdog when I looked this afternoon -- is leading UVa at, say, halftime or later, is this where to post the "Upset Alert"? And I'm assuming those who think the "I'm not going to jinx it" thread is irretrievably broken will post veiled insinuations over there, ya know, for the double-whammy?

:)

I very much hope this is an academic discussion ....

TruBlu
02-02-2015, 05:30 PM
Agree with the analysis assuming it remains a half-court game. Duke had great success beating UVa down the court before it was set (first half especially). UNC is very quick getting up court when they push, even off of made baskets. If they can push like we did, they'll have some quick strikes that may make it a tight game at the end. Unfortunately for UNC, we exposed that potential weakness before UNC could, so my guess is UVa shores it up. Wahoo Wah!

UVA was not expecting Duke to rush the ball down court like we did, as it is not our norm. UVA fully expects UNC to do it, 'cause they always do. UVA would have been prepared for UNC even if we had not exposed the weakness.

Tony Bennett isn't a dummy, even though he left his heart in San Francisco. :o

devildeac
02-02-2015, 06:15 PM
UVA was not expecting Duke to rush the ball down court like we did, as it is not our norm. UVA fully expects UNC to do it, 'cause they always do. UVA would have been prepared for UNC even if we had not exposed the weakness.

Tony Bennett isn't a dummy, even though he left his heart in San Francisco. :o

'Hoo knows what the heel is going to happen tonight:o.

Go Cavs!

wilson
02-02-2015, 07:19 PM
'Hoo knows what the heel is going to happen tonight:o.

Go Cavs!I Caven't the foggiest as to why you thought these ridiculous puns were a good idea.

NSDukeFan
02-02-2015, 07:19 PM
'Hoo knows what the heel is going to happen tonight:o.

Go Cavs!

That's an awfully cavalier attitude to have.

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-02-2015, 07:27 PM
That's an awfully cavalier attitude to have.
Who's feeling tired tonight? Anyone?

Olympic Fan
02-02-2015, 07:53 PM
Interesting first half in Chapel Hill ... as Jay pointed out, UNC benefited from an absolutely atrocious charging foul with 7.5 seconds left and Virginia up one. It gave UNC a chance to come down and hit the go-ahead basket at the buzzer ... actually after the buzzer.

I have to ask a rules question -- on buzzer beaters, there used to be a difference between a shot and a tip. Up until at least the early 1990s, the rule was that a shot only had to leave the shooter's hand before the buzzer... but a tip had to be in the basket before the buzzer. Has that rule changed?

Let me be clear -- I think there is no question that Meeks' half-ending tip occurred with 0.1 second still on the clock. But the ball hung on the back of the rim for several seconds and didn't drop through until long after the buzzer.

Under the rule I grew up with, that basketball should not count. But I assume the rule was changed at some point and tips now count as shots.

CDu
02-02-2015, 07:59 PM
Interesting first half in Chapel Hill ... as Jay pointed out, UNC benefited from an absolutely atrocious charging foul with 7.5 seconds left and Virginia up one. It gave UNC a chance to come down and hit the go-ahead basket at the buzzer ... actually after the buzzer.

I have to ask a rules question -- on buzzer beaters, there used to be a difference between a shot and a tip. Up until at least the early 1990s, the rule was that a shot only had to leave the shooter's hand before the buzzer... but a tip had to be in the basket before the buzzer. Has that rule changed?

Let me be clear -- I think there is no question that Meeks' half-ending tip occurred with 0.1 second still on the clock. But the ball hung on the back of the rim for several seconds and didn't drop through until long after the buzzer.

Under the rule I grew up with, that basketball should not count. But I assume the rule was changed at some point and tips now count as shots.

It definitely counts in today's game. And frankly, I have no idea why it wouldn't have counted in the old days.

Duvall
02-02-2015, 08:00 PM
Bennett seems to be enjoying Jamie Luckie's horrible officiating less than he did during last season's ACC Tournament final.

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 08:01 PM
Bennett seems to be enjoying Jamie Luckie's horrible officiating less than he did during last season's ACC Tournament final.

haha

Well played. :)

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 08:02 PM
Interesting first half in Chapel Hill ... as Jay pointed out, UNC benefited from an absolutely atrocious charging foul with 7.5 seconds left and Virginia up one. It gave UNC a chance to come down and hit the go-ahead basket at the buzzer ... actually after the buzzer.

I have to ask a rules question -- on buzzer beaters, there used to be a difference between a shot and a tip. Up until at least the early 1990s, the rule was that a shot only had to leave the shooter's hand before the buzzer... but a tip had to be in the basket before the buzzer. Has that rule changed?

Let me be clear -- I think there is no question that Meeks' half-ending tip occurred with 0.1 second still on the clock. But the ball hung on the back of the rim for several seconds and didn't drop through until long after the buzzer.

Under the rule I grew up with, that basketball should not count. But I assume the rule was changed at some point and tips now count as shots.

Well, in the old days that charge call on Perrantes would be a block on Brice Johnson.

And by old days, I mean, yesterday.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-02-2015, 08:07 PM
They called it as a bucket, then they went to the monitor?

I thought they werent allowed to go to the monitor at the end of the half...

Or was that because in our game at ND it would have been reviewing the shot clock and not the game clock?

Someone explain I'm officially tired and confused and too lazy to research this myself.

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-02-2015, 08:08 PM
Well, in the old days that charge call on Perrantes would be a block on Brice Johnson.

And by old days, I mean, yesterday.
And yesterday, Johnson camping out in the lane for 5+ seconds would be a violation. But now nowadays.

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 08:09 PM
They called it as a bucket, then they went to the monitor?

I thought they werent allowed to go to the monitor at the end of the half...

Or was that because in our game at ND it would have been reviewing the shot clock and not the game clock?

Someone explain I'm officially tired and confused and too lazy to research this myself.

That's shot clock that's not reviewable.

Game clock at end of half is reviewable.

CDu
02-02-2015, 08:10 PM
They called it as a bucket, then they went to the monitor?

I thought they werent allowed to go to the monitor at the end of the half...

Or was that because in our game at ND it would have been reviewing the shot clock and not the game clock?

Someone explain I'm officially tired and confused and too lazy to research this myself.

Yes, the shot clock isn't reviewable at half; game clock is.

gumbomoop
02-02-2015, 08:11 PM
Don't recall Bennett being as angry as he was at end of first half. Horrendous charge call on UVa's late possession, as shown 3 times on replay, and as mentioned 5-6 times by Shulman and Bilas. Laughably bad, so they could only laugh. Bennett not amused. Charged one of the refs, restrained. Heels caught the break, took lead on last-second tip-in. Crowd made some noise, for once. Bennett very agitated in his quick exit interview with ESPN.

Maybe it'll get tense and exciting in second half. Big game, but maybe Heel fans are still emotionally hung over from last night's super episode of Downton Abbey.

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-02-2015, 08:14 PM
Bilas: "That's what's often referred to as a jump ball." Love it.

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 08:15 PM
Bilas: "That's what's often referred to as a jump ball." Love it.

To be fair, James should have been whistled for a foul on the Anderson shot. In the old days, they'd have called it the first time instead of making it up on a bad call.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-02-2015, 08:16 PM
Shot clock no review...got it thanks mighty board of knowledge

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 08:19 PM
In the old days, bumping a guy driving all the way to the basket was a foul on both ends, not just against the visiting team.

Wait. No it wasn't.

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-02-2015, 08:35 PM
Yesterday that was a jump ball or a travel...

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 08:35 PM
In the old days, a move that Kennedy Meeks just made was a walk.

Unless you were named Tyler Hansbrough.

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 08:38 PM
In the old days, they'd call what's happening to UNC a whoopin'

OldPhiKap
02-02-2015, 08:39 PM
in the old days, Wendy's didn't have bleu cheese.

arnie
02-02-2015, 08:40 PM
In the old days, a move that Kennedy Meeks just made was a walk.

Unless you were named Tyler Hansbrough.

Life is just too good. Nothing could be finer.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-02-2015, 08:40 PM
Bryant up by 1 on Pitt.

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-02-2015, 08:41 PM
Come on Jay. Making excuses for the holes? Pa-lease.

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 08:42 PM
That timeout that Bennett took where Bilas wondered why he took it (because momentum)?

That was to remind his team that they are not built to play fast and up tempo. That UNC is. Probably reminded them of the Duke game.

Ever since, the pace has crawled. UVA went into stall ball.

Furniture
02-02-2015, 08:42 PM
You could hear a pin drop...

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-02-2015, 08:43 PM
Jay missed a good chance to dig on UNC

"Those are honored jerseys" could have added "UNC hangs things in the rafters for anything"

OldPhiKap
02-02-2015, 08:44 PM
I don't know what Shulman is talking about. Carolina is ALWAYS "rank"

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-02-2015, 08:44 PM
You can hear a pin drop...
Yeah, was just gonna say... pathetic.

Crowd must be prepping to make an evening run to the nearest wine store.

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 08:45 PM
Yeah, was just gonna say... pathetic.

Crowd must be prepping to make an evening run to the nearest wine store.

If they stop by Whole Foods, they can kill two birds with one stone and get the cheese along with it. :D

lotusland
02-02-2015, 08:45 PM
If Jay is right the Heels are not feewing well. Poor widdle fellas my heart is breaking for them.

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-02-2015, 08:47 PM
Why is UVA rushing shots? Hellooo... McFly...

lotusland
02-02-2015, 08:50 PM
Oh my goodness they're not feewing well on IC either. It's and epidemic I'm afwaid bless their hearts.

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 08:51 PM
Oh my goodness they're not feewing well on IC either. It's and epidemic I'm afwaid bless their hearts.

Well it's certainly not academic... :p

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 08:52 PM
In the old days, when a team trying to claw back into a game in the final minutes fouled all the way down the court, they called it the first time.

lotusland
02-02-2015, 08:53 PM
I think Bilas just equated Roy with "a guy in the third row".

OldPhiKap
02-02-2015, 08:53 PM
Not sure who hepped me to @ICMeltdown on Twitter but it's my favorite follow.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
02-02-2015, 08:53 PM
Everyone can breath a sigh of relief Pitt pulled out the win vs Bryant.

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 08:53 PM
I think Bilas just equated Roy with "a guy in the third row".

That's about how he coaches, so it's appropriate.

77devil
02-02-2015, 08:53 PM
Blue ball let's play.

OldPhiKap
02-02-2015, 08:55 PM
Blue ball let's play.

{sigh} if I had a dime for every time I said that. . . .

77devil
02-02-2015, 08:57 PM
{sigh} if I had a dime for every time I said that. . . .

How about a dollar? (-:

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-02-2015, 08:58 PM
Well that was fun.

dukebluesincebirth
02-02-2015, 09:01 PM
Wah-hoo! They dismantled the holes' defense in the second half. Fun to watch😀

roywhite
02-02-2015, 09:01 PM
Well, at least Marcus Paige got his points late. He looks like a lock for the Garbage Time All-America team.

brevity
02-02-2015, 09:04 PM
Process question: If Carolina -- a 1-point underdog when I looked this afternoon -- is leading UVa at, say, halftime or later, is this where to post the "Upset Alert"? And I'm assuming those who think the "I'm not going to jinx it" thread is irretrievably broken will post veiled insinuations over there, ya know, for the double-whammy?

:)

I very much hope this is an academic discussion ....

DBR has no hard rules about this, and the jinx thread ultimately belongs to Ultrarunner, but...

1. Carolina's ACC games definitely go in ACC threads like this.
2. Carolina's non-conference games could go in the jinx thread, but should just go in that week's ACC thread anyway because
3. Carolina is fairly jinx-proof, and it makes the unwashed masses question the brilliance of the jinx thread.
4. We do not use the words "upset alert".

I know a lot about UNC and jinxes because I have a secret. It's a dark, dirty secret, but whatever. I, brevity, am Carolina's good luck charm. If I watch Carolina play a non-Duke team, the Heels win.

Evidence is anecdotal but substantial. I attended a game at the Dean Dome once, a not-close win they had over UVA. I avoided the 1993 championship game but stumbled on the end of it while getting a meal at the Rathskeller. I saw the end of the 2005 Villanova game, and an early and accidental (but ultimately decisive) 2 seconds of the 2011 Washington game. I did not see Kansas storm to that 40-12 lead, but I did see UNC start to catch up, and I decided to stop watching them. Forever.

The exception is UNC-Duke. I've seen enough wins and losses, comebacks and giveaways to know that I have no net effect on the rivalry. But I go into those games comparatively blind. What I know about this UNC squad is based only on what recaps I may have seen, and what I read here.

Final score: Duke women 66, Louisville 58. I'm consistent.

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 09:04 PM
Guys, I'm really worried. All of my UNC friends on social media have been silent for the past week or so. I'm worried something is wrong. Or worse, that they don't like me any more.

4693

jipops
02-02-2015, 09:18 PM
Great road win for uva over a "top 5" team.

norduck
02-02-2015, 09:32 PM
Guys, I'm really worried. All of my UNC friends on social media have been silent for the past week or so. I'm worried something is wrong. Or worse, that they don't like me any more.

4693

Shredded wheat.

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 09:34 PM
Shredded wheat.

This is more Wheat's style when he disappears for stretches....

4694

duketaylor
02-02-2015, 09:36 PM
Very happy UVA took down the Holes so easily. Abused their Efence in the 2nd half. Crowd unsupportive.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-02-2015, 09:46 PM
I've just been lurking lately because I just got tired of the same few posters taking my every post out of context and then stalking my replies with snarky comments.

After this post I will again kick back for awhile, but I don't want anyone to think my lack of posting lately is due to lack of support for the team, I'm just gonna take a break.

The last two games, Louisville/UVA, the lack of toughness has reappeared for UNC. When play turned physical in the second half at Louisville, UNC lost their composure and allowed a good team back in a game they had a handle on. It's a continuing problem that this UNC team must get past if they want to go far in the tourney.

Same thing happened tonight. UVA played strong, physical basketball and UNC did not. They failed to finish strong at the rim, failed to put a body on somebody to deny offensive rebounds, and failed to aggressively attack UVA's defense off the dribble in the second half.

Losing to Louisville at home in OT is not a bad loss, except for how they lost and the fact they had the game and failed to close it out.

Losing to a very good #3 ranked UVA team at home is not the end of the world either, especially when it's considered the team is this banged up and Meeks was not at 100%. (No excuse, just something to consider).

What is concerning is how can Roy get these guys to consistently play stronger when physically they are just not strong players, (Jackson, Johnson), or are undersized (Britt,Paige), or don't seem to have the mindset to play strong (Tokoto, Hicks).

Paige and Britt are the only players to challenge defenses off the dribble. Paige can't do everything on his own, and Britt is just too small to be effective at the rim. Jackson tries on occasion, but once inside is physically outmatched.

Tokoto could do it every game but Roy has not found the right button to push to get him to man up and attack. For me, he's the most frustrating player on the team. He's really talented, but he's really passive.

The book on playing UNC is clear, put a body on them, a light hand check just shy of a foul, and it's enough to disrupt their rhythm.

In a tightly called game, UNC's overall skill level is apparent and they are hard to beat. In a looser called, physical game UNC has failed, so far, to prove they can step up.

Tournament games are usually allowed to be more of the physical variety, so if UNC has hopes of getting far, they will have to become a more aggressive, tougher team.

Edit to add: While composing this post you guys proved my point. Thanks.

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 09:53 PM
I've just been lurking lately because I just got tired of the same few posters taking my every post out of context and then stalking my replies with snarky comments.

After this post I will again kick back for awhile, but I don't want anyone to think my lack of posting lately is due to lack of support for the team, I'm just gonna take a break.

The last two games, Louisville/UVA, the lack of toughness has reappeared for UNC. When play turned physical in the second half at Louisville, UNC lost their composure and allowed a good team back in a game they had a handle on. It's a continuing problem that this UNC team must get past if they want to go far in the tourney.

Same thing happened tonight. UVA played strong, physical basketball and UNC did not. They failed to finish strong at the rim, failed to put a body on somebody to deny offensive rebounds, and failed to aggressively attack UVA's defense off the dribble in the second half.

Losing to Louisville at home in OT is not a bad loss, except for how they lost and the fact they had the game and failed to close it out.

Losing to a very good #3 ranked UVA team at home is not the end of the world either, especially when it's considered the team is this banged up and Meeks was not at 100%. (No excuse, just something to consider).

What is concerning is how can Roy get these guys to consistently play stronger when physically they are just not strong players, (Jackson, Johnson), or are undersized (Britt,Paige), or don't seem to have the mindset to play strong (Tokoto, Hicks).

Paige and Britt are the only players to challenge defenses off the dribble. Paige can't do everything on his own, and Britt is just too small to be effective at the rim. Jackson tries on occasion, but once inside is physically outmatched.

Tokoto could do it every game but Roy has not found the right button to push to get him to man up and attack. For me, he's the most frustrating player on the team. He's really talented, but he's really passive.

The book on playing UNC is clear, put a body on them, a light hand check just shy of a foul, and it's enough to disrupt their rhythm.

In a tightly called game, UNC's overall skill level is apparent and they are hard to beat. In a looser called, physical game UNC has failed, so far, to prove they can step up.

Tournament games are usually allowed to be more of the physical variety, so if UNC has hopes of getting far, they will have to become a more aggressive, tougher team.

Edit to add: While composing this post you guys proved my point. Thanks.

I just like to mess with you, Wheat. You're generally good people, as far as UNC people are concerned. :cool:

OldPhiKap
02-02-2015, 09:57 PM
I've just been lurking lately because I just got tired of the same few posters taking my every post out of context and then stalking my replies with snarky comments.

After this post I will again kick back for awhile, but I don't want anyone to think my lack of posting lately is due to lack of support for the team, I'm just gonna take a break.

The last two games, Louisville/UVA, the lack of toughness has reappeared for UNC. When play turned physical in the second half at Louisville, UNC lost their composure and allowed a good team back in a game they had a handle on. It's a continuing problem that this UNC team must get past if they want to go far in the tourney.

Same thing happened tonight. UVA played strong, physical basketball and UNC did not. They failed to finish strong at the rim, failed to put a body on somebody to deny offensive rebounds, and failed to aggressively attack UVA's defense off the dribble in the second half.

Losing to Louisville at home in OT is not a bad loss, except for how they lost and the fact they had the game and failed to close it out.

Losing to a very good #3 ranked UVA team at home is not the end of the world either, especially when it's considered the team is this banged up and Meeks was not at 100%. (No excuse, just something to consider).

What is concerning is how can Roy get these guys to consistently play stronger when physically they are just not strong players, (Jackson, Johnson), or are undersized (Britt,Paige), or don't seem to have the mindset to play strong (Tokoto, Hicks).

Paige and Britt are the only players to challenge defenses off the dribble. Paige can't do everything on his own, and Britt is just too small to be effective at the rim. Jackson tries on occasion, but once inside is physically outmatched.

Tokoto could do it every game but Roy has not found the right button to push to get him to man up and attack. For me, he's the most frustrating player on the team. He's really talented, but he's really passive.

The book on playing UNC is clear, put a body on them, a light hand check just shy of a foul, and it's enough to disrupt their rhythm.

In a tightly called game, UNC's overall skill level is apparent and they are hard to beat. In a looser called, physical game UNC has failed, so far, to prove they can step up.

Tournament games are usually allowed to be more of the physical variety, so if UNC has hopes of getting far, they will have to become a more aggressive, tougher team.

Edit to add: While composing this post you guys proved my point. Thanks.

I think this is pretty spot on. bit I also think that Roy has to shoulder some of this too. The team is what it is -- adapt. But bless his heart, when his basic plan doesn't work he's stumped.

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 10:01 PM
I think this is pretty spot on. bit I also think that Roy has to shoulder some of this too. The team is what it is -- adapt. But bless his heart, when his basic plan doesn't work he's stumped.

Roy Williams' basic plan:

1) Inflate ball to proper PSI
2) Roll ball to player
3) Hope everything goes according to plan

OldPhiKap
02-02-2015, 10:06 PM
Roy Williams' basic plan:

1) Inflate ball to proper PSI
2) Roll ball to player
3) Hope everything goes according to plan
4) Throw kids under the bus if all else fails

Finished it for you.

As Wheat said, a loss to Louisville and a loss to UVa is no shame. We lost back-to-back to lower-ranked teams. K responded by changing to a zone, playing twin towers, and (whether related or not) making a decision which impacts our depth and chemistry.

Will Roy do anything different?

FerryFor50
02-02-2015, 10:12 PM
Finished it for you.

As Wheat said, a loss to Louisville and a loss to UVa is no shame. We lost back-to-back to lower-ranked teams. K responded by changing to a zone, playing twin towers, and (whether related or not) making a decision which impacts our depth and chemistry.

Will Roy do anything different?

Call a time out?

Compare this season to Malaysia Airlines Flight 370?

OldPhiKap
02-02-2015, 10:14 PM
Call a time out?

Compare this season to Malaysia Airlines Flight 370?

I joined the game late, so to ask what is probably a dumb question -- did Roy actually finish that game with time outs left? Even by his standards, I would be stunned.

duketaylor
02-02-2015, 10:38 PM
Wheat, I totally respect you and your passion for your team. UNC hasn't played good D in several years, somewhat better of late, but it faded against UVA late this evening on your home court. It doesn't help when the home crowd does little to stoke the team-it was quite quiet. UNC has the tools to go deep in the tourney, but only if, and this is a BIG if, they invest on D. I feel the same way with Duke. Defense will determine success. UK and UVA play great D, they can struggle on O at times. Thus, they're vulnerable that way. Both Duke and UNC have tons of scoring potential but struggle with consistency on D. Sometimes we are awful on D. Who would've thought K would switch to playing a lot of zone at times? Great coaches make adjustments. I think Roy can be hesitant on making adjustments (and K has over the years).

Both are good teams, but with some glaring weaknesses.


Please don't step away from posting-especially since we have upcoming games and I appreciate your thoughts. I know many others do as well.

devildeac
02-02-2015, 10:57 PM
Bennett seems to be enjoying Jamie Luckie's horrible officiating less than he did during last season's ACC Tournament final.

You couldn't possibly be referring to this game where one team shot 38 FT and the other one only 11 and the PF difference was 28-15:


http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400546817


Nah, didn't think so. :rolleyes:

devildeac
02-02-2015, 10:58 PM
haha

Well played. :)


I see FerryFor50 beat me to it. :o

gumbomoop
02-03-2015, 12:02 AM
The last two games, Louisville/UVA, the lack of toughness has reappeared for UNC.

What is concerning is how can Roy get these guys to consistently play stronger when physically they are just not strong players, (Jackson, Johnson), or are undersized (Britt,Paige), or don't seem to have the mindset to play strong (Tokoto, Hicks).

Tokoto could do it every game but Roy has not found the right button to push to get him to man up and attack. For me, he's the most frustrating player on the team. He's really talented, but he's really passive.

Don't want to respond to your entire post, but just a few things.

Toughness - They seemed tired tonight, maybe left over from bad second half on Sat, but also nagging injuries, and not enough healthy players even to practice yesterday. The crowd at the DD isn't tough, either. Except against Duke. But certainly not tonight.

Your summary take on 6 key players is good. I think Hicks deserves more time, but I don't see them enough. Would the team benefit from more Hicks, less James?

Tokoto - Improved shooter, but still a long ways to go. Makes some very bad decisions, including shot selection tonight. Close enough to a defensive stopper, when he focuses. Along with undependable shot, handle is a big, big weakness. Very athletic, but dicey handle makes him appear almost uncoordinated at times. Strange. Crowd is nervous when he has the ball too long, and for good reason.

In UNC's favor is lots of rest coming up: next game not until Sat, then week before next game. They might lose any of mildly challenging away games with Pitt, Miami, even GT, but not likely. 14-4, 13-5 at worst.

Duvall
02-03-2015, 02:21 AM
I joined the game late, so to ask what is probably a dumb question -- did Roy actually finish that game with time outs left? Even by his standards, I would be stunned.

I would lay off Roy for the timeouts here - there was nothing he could have drawn up that would have addressed the fact that UNC simply lacks the talent to stay with a team like Virginia for 40 minutes.

Duvall
02-03-2015, 02:27 AM
In UNC's favor is lots of rest coming up: next game not until Sat, then week before next game. They might lose any of mildly challenging away games with Pitt, Miami, even GT, but not likely. 14-4, 13-5 at worst.

Maybe. That trip to Miami, though - Canes surely looked terrible last week, but Larrañaga owns UNC pretty badly.

TruBlu
02-03-2015, 05:05 AM
Finished it for you.

As Wheat said, a loss to Louisville and a loss to UVa is no shame. We lost back-to-back to lower-ranked teams. K responded by changing to a zone, playing twin towers, and (whether related or not) making a decision which impacts our depth and chemistry.

Will Roy do anything different?

Roy did make a change during the game. He went to a zone late when down double digits. I wonder where he got that idea.:cool:

It didn't work out as well for the heels, though.:D

MChambers
02-03-2015, 05:46 AM
In the old days, when a team trying to claw back into a game in the final minutes fouled all the way down the court, they called it the first time.
I'm pretty that even in the old days, or especially in the old days, the refs never called fouls on UNC in those situations. At least that is the way my increasingly faulty mind remembers it.

devildeac
02-03-2015, 09:13 AM
4692


This is more Wheat's style when he disappears for stretches....

4694

Great minds think alike?;)

FerryFor50
02-03-2015, 09:23 AM
Great minds think alike?;)

Ha!

I plagiarized devildeac. Must have subconsciously taken some classes at UNC recently...

devildeac
02-03-2015, 09:36 AM
Ha!

I plagiarized devildeac. Must have subconsciously taken some classes at UNC recently...


But we both got A- grades on our photo/art "courses."

If we had used a bit of spray paint in our pictures, we probably could have received extra credit:rolleyes:.

BobBender
02-03-2015, 10:12 AM
Don't want to respond to your entire post, but just a few things.

Toughness - They seemed tired tonight, maybe left over from bad second half on Sat, but also nagging injuries, and not enough healthy players even to practice yesterday. The crowd at the DD isn't tough, either. Except against Duke. But certainly not tonight.

Your summary take on 6 key players is good. I think Hicks deserves more time, but I don't see them enough. Would the team benefit from more Hicks, less James?

Tokoto - Improved shooter, but still a long ways to go. Makes some very bad decisions, including shot selection tonight. Close enough to a defensive stopper, when he focuses. Along with undependable shot, handle is a big, big weakness. Very athletic, but dicey handle makes him appear almost uncoordinated at times. Strange. Crowd is nervous when he has the ball too long, and for good reason.

In UNC's favor is lots of rest coming up: next game not until Sat, then week before next game. They might lose any of mildly challenging away games with Pitt, Miami, even GT, but not likely. 14-4, 13-5 at worst.

Tokoto and Justin Anderson came into the league at the same time with similar credentials: super athletic but kind of raw skill sets. Now look where their games are. Anderson has evolved into a leader, he can shoot fairly well, and passes the ball effectively. Tokoto is still just an athlete, maybe he is better from the free throw line than he was, but not a guy you want with the ball in his hands.
Oh, lest I forget, Tokoto was a McDonald's AA, Anderson was not. Thus, my continued ( but only half-serious) assertion that Roy simply buys his Street& Smith's and recruits from his office. I can't see how Tokoto ever passed the eyeball test in actual high-level competition.
At the end of the day, it seems Bennett is a better evaluator of potential than Roy ( or just about anyone besides K).

tbyers11
02-03-2015, 10:29 AM
Tokoto and Justin Anderson came into the league at the same time with similar credentials: super athletic but kind of raw skill sets. Now look where their games are. Anderson has evolved into a leader, he can shoot fairly well, and passes the ball effectively. Tokoto is still just an athlete, maybe he is better from the free throw line than he was, but not a guy you want with the ball in his hands.
Oh, lest I forget, Tokoto was a McDonald's AA, Anderson was not. Thus, my continued ( but only half-serious) assertion that Roy simply buys his Street& Smith's and recruits from his office. I can't see how Tokoto ever passed the eyeball test in actual high-level competition.
At the end of the day, it seems Bennett is a better evaluator of potential than Roy ( or just about anyone besides K).

I agree with your comments about development re: Tokoto and Anderson.

However, Tokoto was not a MCD AA. Anderson was also slightly higher ranked (#48 RSCI) coming out of high school than Tokoto (#57 RSCI)

Duvall
02-03-2015, 10:32 AM
Tokoto and Justin Anderson came into the league at the same time with similar credentials: super athletic but kind of raw skill sets. Now look where their games are. Anderson has evolved into a leader, he can shoot fairly well, and passes the ball effectively. Tokoto is still just an athlete, maybe he is better from the free throw line than he was, but not a guy you want with the ball in his hands.
Oh, lest I forget, Tokoto was a McDonald's AA, Anderson was not. Thus, my continued ( but only half-serious) assertion that Roy simply buys his Street& Smith's and recruits from his office. I can't see how Tokoto ever passed the eyeball test in actual high-level competition.
At the end of the day, it seems Bennett is a better evaluator of potential than Roy ( or just about anyone besides K).

Well, and Gary Williams I guess.

jipops
02-03-2015, 12:42 PM
Wheat, I totally respect you and your passion for your team. UNC hasn't played good D in several years, somewhat better of late, but it faded against UVA late this evening on your home court. It doesn't help when the home crowd does little to stoke the team-it was quite quiet. UNC has the tools to go deep in the tourney, but only if, and this is a BIG if, they invest on D. I feel the same way with Duke. Defense will determine success. UK and UVA play great D, they can struggle on O at times. Thus, they're vulnerable that way. Both Duke and UNC have tons of scoring potential but struggle with consistency on D. Sometimes we are awful on D. Who would've thought K would switch to playing a lot of zone at times? Great coaches make adjustments. I think Roy can be hesitant on making adjustments (and K has over the years).

Both are good teams, but with some glaring weaknesses.


Please don't step away from posting-especially since we have upcoming games and I appreciate your thoughts. I know many others do as well.

I don't think this is necessarily true. This seems to go along the lines of a false narrative. Statistically, unc's teams have been very good defensively the last several seasons, much better than us. Since 2011 they have hovered around the top 20 most efficient defenses. That is actually a lot better than what Duke has produced in that time frame. Now this year's heels is in danger of ending that streak, especially since they gave up 83 points to lowly Syracuse... at home. So they have actually gotten worse as of late. I don't think we would have had to deal with the early tournament exists if our teams' defense had performed to the level of unc's.

brevity
02-03-2015, 01:06 PM
I would lay off Roy for the timeouts here - there was nothing he could have drawn up that would have addressed the fact that UNC simply lacks the talent to stay with a team like Virginia for 40 minutes.

Disagree. I think Roy Williams could have drawn up something to address his team's lack of talent...

4697

Olympic Fan
02-03-2015, 01:07 PM
I agree with your comments about development re: Tokoto and Anderson.

However, Tokoto was not a MCD AA. Anderson was also slightly higher ranked (#48 RSCI) coming out of high school than Tokoto (#57 RSCI)

Tokoto was an early bloomer. In the summer between his sophomore and junior years in high school, he was touted as the best player in the class. EVERYBODY was interested -- including K. But as they saw more and more of the kid and saw that while he had incredible athleticism, but his game didn't develop, Tokoto's stock dropped. He was a borderline top 50 guy by the time UNC signed him. We had backed off -- whether because Tokoto had no interest in us or because K saw the lack of development, I don't know.

UNC's basketball recruits often suffer from the same syndrome that impact Duke basketball recruits -- the mere fact that UNC or Duke (or Kentucky or Kansas) is recruiting them inflates them in the rankings. The same process works in reverse when it comes to Duke football ...

BobBender
02-03-2015, 02:09 PM
Tokoto was an early bloomer. In the summer between his sophomore and junior years in high school, he was touted as the best player in the class. EVERYBODY was interested -- including K. But as they saw more and more of the kid and saw that while he had incredible athleticism, but his game didn't develop, Tokoto's stock dropped. He was a borderline top 50 guy by the time UNC signed him. We had backed off -- whether because Tokoto had no interest in us or because K saw the lack of development, I don't know.

UNC's basketball recruits often suffer from the same syndrome that impact Duke basketball recruits -- the mere fact that UNC or Duke (or Kentucky or Kansas) is recruiting them inflates them in the rankings. The same process works in reverse when it comes to Duke football ...

Actually, that is another similarity between Tokoto and Anderson. I have read that Anderson was considered the best 8th grader in the country when he was that age. He evidently could dunk at 10 years old. Also, that quite a few coaches kept close tabs on him but did not see much progress from 14 to 17 years old. So it is more a case of him blooming a second time, rather than coming out of nowhere

oldnavy
02-03-2015, 03:00 PM
Well, and Gary Williams I guess.

Pretty sure we went recruited Tokoto.

The list of recruits who didn't live up to the hype is pretty long for every coach, K included.

Duvall
02-03-2015, 03:03 PM
Pretty sure we went recruited Tokoto.

The list of recruits who didn't live up to the hype is pretty long for every coach, K included.

Sure, but Gary Williams not only recruited Justin Anderson, but got him to commit to Maryland. Anderson switched to Virginia when Williams retired.

CDu
02-03-2015, 03:35 PM
Let's be fair to Tokoto here. The guy has made HUGE improvements in his 3 years at UNC:

Freshman year: 9.1% 3pt shooting on 1.46 attempts per 40 min, 0.78 A:TO ratio and 3.44 assists per 40
Sophomore year: 22.2% 3pt shooting on 1.48 attempts per 40 min, 1.57 A:TO ratio and 4.23 assists per 40
Junior year: 35.7% 3pt shooting on 1.73 attempts per 40 min, 1.63 A:TO ratio and 5.75 assists per 40

If anything, I'd argue that Tokoto has improved MORE than Anderson has. He was just coming in SO far behind Anderson in terms of basketball skills (and that's saying something, because Anderson was pretty raw).

Jason Evans started another thread related to Anderson's development. Essentially, he's exactly the same player he was 3 years ago with one exception: he's now shooting 20% better from 3pt range. All of his other stats have remained remarkably consistent.

So Tokoto has gone from being an absolutely abysmal shooter and sloppy ballhandler to a completely capable shooter and solid but not great ballhandler. Meanwhile, Anderson has gone from being a slightly below-average shooter to a ridiculous shooter, with everything else staying basically the same. Of the two, I think Tokoto has grown more personally (especially if Anderson's great shooting is really more good fortune than actual improvement).

BobBender
02-03-2015, 03:43 PM
Let's be fair to Tokoto here. The guy has made HUGE improvements in his 3 years at UNC:

Freshman year: 9.1% 3pt shooting on 1.46 attempts per 40 min, 0.78 A:TO ratio and 3.44 assists per 40
Sophomore year: 22.2% 3pt shooting on 1.48 attempts per 40 min, 1.57 A:TO ratio and 4.23 assists per 40
Junior year: 35.7% 3pt shooting on 1.73 attempts per 40 min, 1.63 A:TO ratio and 5.75 assists per 40

If anything, I'd argue that Tokoto has improved MORE than Anderson has. He was just coming in SO far behind Anderson in terms of basketball skills (and that's saying something, because Anderson was pretty raw).

Jason Evans started another thread related to Anderson's development. Essentially, he's exactly the same player he was 3 years ago with one exception: he's now shooting 20% better from 3pt range. All of his other stats have remained remarkably consistent.

So Tokoto has gone from being an absolutely abysmal shooter and sloppy ballhandler to a completely capable shooter and solid but not great ballhandler. Meanwhile, Anderson has gone from being a slightly below-average shooter to a ridiculous shooter, with everything else staying basically the same. Of the two, I think Tokoto has grown more personally (especially if Anderson's great shooting is really more good fortune than actual improvement).

I'll say respectfully that I think the Jason Evan's post is ridiculous. A guy in another program finds a better shooting stroke and he attributes it to luck? C'mon , that's something i expect on IC

CDu
02-03-2015, 03:46 PM
I'll say respectfully that I think the Jason Evan's post is ridiculous. A guy in another program finds a better shooting stroke and he attributes it to luck? C'mon , that's something i expect on IC

I certainly don't think it is luck. Anderson has clearly improved as a shooter. But as I posted in that thread, he has shot 39% in ACC play and 38.5% overall against "BCS" schools this season. So I think it is fair to say that he probably isn't the 50% shooter that his stats currently say he is (as those appear to be greatly inflated by ridiculous success against terrible teams).

jhmoss1812
02-03-2015, 05:00 PM
Sure, but Gary Williams not only recruited Justin Anderson, but got him to commit to Maryland. Anderson switched to Virginia when Williams retired.

Which is why I'm now a HUGE Gary Williams fan. It's really hard for me to picture Justin Anderson as a Terp.

Duvall
02-03-2015, 05:28 PM
I don't think this is necessarily true. This seems to go along the lines of a false narrative. Statistically, unc's teams have been very good defensively the last several seasons, much better than us. Since 2011 they have hovered around the top 20 most efficient defenses. That is actually a lot better than what Duke has produced in that time frame. Now this year's heels is in danger of ending that streak, especially since they gave up 83 points to lowly Syracuse... at home. So they have actually gotten worse as of late. I don't think we would have had to deal with the early tournament exists if our teams' defense had performed to the level of unc's.

Agreed - people tend to overestimate North Carolina's offense and underestimate their defense because they play at such a high pace, but UNC has been solid defensively recent years and struggled offensively the last few years (not this year, though). Fortunately, no one has come up with a way to monitor this easily, because that would surely take all of the fun out of basketball.

jipops
02-03-2015, 05:53 PM
UNC's basketball recruits often suffer from the same syndrome that impact Duke basketball recruits -- the mere fact that UNC or Duke (or Kentucky or Kansas) is recruiting them inflates them in the rankings. The same process works in reverse when it comes to Duke football ...


I think this is actually untrue.

I believe it is more likely, not at all definitive, for a top 30-ish recruit to be named a McD AllAm if he has committed to a high profile program or is being intensely recruited by one. But a player's overall ranking I believe exists along the inexact science that has no regard for the player's committed program.

devildeac
02-03-2015, 08:46 PM
Probably my favorite quote from Luke DeCock from his UVa-unc game article in the News and Observer this am:

"... and victimized by one of the worst foul calls of this generation, a charge drawn by Brice Johnson while he was moving in multiple dimensions..."

Duvall
02-03-2015, 08:52 PM
Judging NC State super-hard right now.

devildeac
02-03-2015, 09:05 PM
To Wolfpack fans at the half: Need 3 touchdowns-clap, clap, clap/clap/clap.

CDu
02-03-2015, 09:57 PM
State moonwalking their way out of a tourney bid right now...

Duvall
02-03-2015, 10:39 PM
All ACC Final Four...in the NIT?

Duvall
02-03-2015, 11:09 PM
The important thing to remember is that Syracuse and Virginia Tech have both disgraced themselves tonight.

FerryFor50
02-03-2015, 11:10 PM
State moonwalking their way out of a tourney bid right now...

Angel Rodriguez might be moonwalking his way out of Miami, too.

FerryFor50
02-03-2015, 11:11 PM
Also, good for Gbinijie leading the Cuse to the win and hitting the game winner.

Tom B.
02-03-2015, 11:12 PM
And Syracuse erases a 13-point deficit to Virginia Tech with about 6:30 to go, and a six-point deficit in the last minute, to win 72-70. Michael Gbinije tied it at 70 with two free throws, then after Virginia Tech turned it over, Gbinije hit a twisting shot in the lane with 0.1 seconds left to win it.

Furniture
02-03-2015, 11:22 PM
Gbinije did miss a lot of FTs that should have closed the gap earlier. I think he redeemed himself with the last two FTs and the last play....

HaveFunExpectToWin
02-04-2015, 04:29 PM
And Syracuse erases a 13-point deficit to Virginia Tech with about 6:30 to go, and a six-point deficit in the last minute, to win 72-70. Michael Gbinije tied it at 70 with two free throws, then after Virginia Tech turned it over, Gbinije hit a twisting shot in the lane with 0.1 seconds left to win it.

I watched that ending just after I finished watching Vandy edge out Alex Murphy and UF. It was strange to see two former Blue Devils back to back like that.

Bob Green
02-07-2015, 09:56 AM
Saturday has a couple great matchups between current top 10 teams (who probably will all still be top 10 teams when the new polls come out). Duke and Notre Dame get things started early, while Charlottesville hosts another Saturday night affair, this time against the Cardinals. In slightly lesser action, Syracuse and Pitt have a big game for sorting purposes below the top 5.


[2]Virginia hosts [10]Louisville (7:00, ESPN)



A Duke win coupled with a Virginia loss would certainly tighten things up, but it is incredibly hard for me to root for Louisville. I'm not saying I have a long memory or am carrying a grudge or anything like that, but 1986 remains fresh in my memory. While I certainly acknowledge the benefit of a Virginia defeat, once the ball is tipped, I expect my rooting interests will be with the Wahoos.

TruBlu
02-07-2015, 10:08 AM
A Duke win coupled with a Virginia loss would certainly tighten things up, but it is incredibly hard for me to root for Louisville. I'm not saying I have a long memory or am carrying a grudge or anything like that, but 1986 remains fresh in my memory. While I certainly acknowledge the benefit of a Virginia defeat, once the ball is tipped, I expect my rooting interests will be with the Wahoos.

The good news is that one of them will lose. Either way, we get closer to the loser in the standings providing we take care of business against the Irish.

I was there in Dallas in '86, so I have very bad memories also. Fortunately, there were some fine bars in Dallas to help me make it thru the night. (The next day was really rough.)

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-07-2015, 07:30 PM
Paint slowly drying in Charlottesville this evening.

Duke95
02-07-2015, 07:45 PM
UVa putting the beatdown on L-ville. Horrible style of play though. Very boring.

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-07-2015, 07:47 PM
UL is just terrible. How are they #9?

Duvall
02-07-2015, 07:50 PM
Yeah, Virginia isn't losing a third game. Or a second.

bbosbbos
02-07-2015, 07:52 PM
How can that be? Very very terrible O.

BD80
02-07-2015, 08:12 PM
How can that be? Very very terrible O.

Two field goals or was there a missed extra point?

The Hoos only posted 24 in the half, but if they slow the pace down a bit more, that might be enough for the win.

Duke95
02-07-2015, 08:20 PM
If I weren't already drinking, watching Virginia's offense would drive me to it.

Just ugly to watch.

bbosbbos
02-07-2015, 08:27 PM
That will kill the ncaa bb. So ugly, so boring. UVA maybe will win the game, but they are playing very terrible O. Do not even mention UL's O.

slower
02-07-2015, 08:32 PM
UL is just terrible. How are they #9?
They ARE a bunch of boneheads, aren't they?

bbosbbos
02-07-2015, 08:37 PM
UVA is not much better than that.


They ARE a bunch of boneheads, aren't they?

vick
02-07-2015, 08:39 PM
UVA is not much better than that.

Defense being irrelevant to basketball skill?

slower
02-07-2015, 08:43 PM
UVA is not much better than that.
As far as making intelligent decisions and playing with discipline, yes they ARE much better.

BobBender
02-07-2015, 09:49 PM
some of the comments on this thread are absurd. Uva plays classic basketball, not overly dependent on hot shooting from three point land. They had us beaten last week if not for a flurry of great shooting by the Blue Devils in the last four minutes. It is ridiculous to insult their hard-nosed style. They will be in every game they play. You would think some of us would have learned from how they beat us up in ACC final last year, notwithstanding the foul differential in their favor….bottom line, stay classy on here, they do it the right way in Charlottesville

Troublemaker
02-07-2015, 09:52 PM
some of the comments on this thread are absurd. Uva plays classic basketball, not overly dependent on hot shooting from three point land. They had us beaten last week if not for a flurry of great shooting by the Blue Devils in the last four minutes. It is ridiculous to insult their hard-nosed style. They will be in every game they play. You would think some of us would have learned from how they beat us up in ACC final last year, notwithstanding the foul differential in their favor….bottom line, stay classy on here, they do it the right way in Charlottesville

Eh, not all styles of play are aesthetically pleasing to everyone. I can appreciate UVA and apparently you do, too, but I don't begrudge anyone who doesn't.

DarkstarWahoo
02-07-2015, 10:50 PM
Yeah, Virginia isn't losing a third game. Or a second. With Justin Anderson appearing to be out for a month plus, we're a lot more vulnerable than we were entering tonight.

vick
02-07-2015, 10:56 PM
With Justin Anderson appearing to be out for a month plus, we're a lot more vulnerable than we were entering tonight.

The timing could have been much worse though--except for a game at NC State, the next month's schedule is fairly favorable. If he's out just 3-4 weeks (as David Teel is reporting), it shouldn't hurt too much.

I wish him good luck and a quick return.

Troublemaker
02-07-2015, 11:00 PM
With Justin Anderson appearing to be out for a month plus, we're a lot more vulnerable than we were entering tonight.

Sorry to hear about Justin Anderson's injury, Wahoos. Duke fans can certainly empathize with losing key players to injury.

Hopefully Anderson has the quickest return possible for his injury and seamlessly re-integrates back into the team.

OldPhiKap
02-07-2015, 11:18 PM
Sorry to hear about Justin Anderson's injury, Wahoos. Duke fans can certainly empathize with losing key players to injury.

Hopefully Anderson has the quickest return possible for his injury and seamlessly re-integrates back into the team.

Add me to this. Hate to see any kid injured, especially an all-ACC kid.