Is UVA The New Duke?

[Rich]

After reading a bunch of threads and articles, listening to interviews, and posting several comments on this board (and being sporked by people who agree), it occurred to me that UVA may be the "new Duke." I'm a Duke grad, Class of '88 and, coincidentally, my nephew enrolled in UVA this year so on a personal level I wonder whether this is a passing of the torch. UVA takes pride and a commitment to defense that Duke once had. I've said it before on these boards in various threads, but our migration to a younger team caused by the one-and-done era has adversely affected our defensive prowess.

Great Duke teams of the past made a commitment to defense. But more than that, IMO Coach K's system requires not only talent and "smart" players, but an understanding of the game and communication that comes with time in the system (aka upperclassmen). Even when we started underclassman, they were not expected to carry the defense load and were playing with more experienced players who knew and taught the system, both during the game and in practice. That's no longer the case. Teams no longer fear Duke's defense. Even more than that, over the last several years our defense has become soft, less imposing, and easily picked apart. Remember those games when we would get into passing lanes, force our opponent to start their offense outside the three point arc, and disrupt the flow with our quickness? That's no longer the case, partially due to rules changes, but also because we lack experience and the communication required to be a defensive juggernaut.

Going back to my premise, that is exactly what UVA has become. I heard one of the UVA players interviewed recently and he basically said that they get more pumped to play defense than offense; that with every stop, their adrenaline and momentum increases and they gain more confidence on each end of the floor. As DBR noted in its front page article, UVA runs a system designed for non-athletes, but has amped it up by recruiting athletes perfectly suited for that style of play. Remember when Duke did that? Remember when each year we had a defensive stopper who could guard the other team's best player and disrupt their offense? With success, UVA is only going to get better as they are able to land quality recruits who fit the system. Like Coach K, Bennett is the real deal, only a younger version.

So I ask, are we witnessing the passing of the mantle? Is this a power shift in the conference? Is UVA the new Duke?

[CDu]

They are off to a good start. But let's see Bennett do it for at least a few years rather than rushing to find the next Duke.

[dukelifer]

After reading a bunch of threads and articles, listening to interviews, and posting several comments on this board (and being sporked by people who agree), it occurred to me that UVA may be the "new Duke." I'm a Duke grad, Class of '88 and, coincidentally, my nephew enrolled in UVA this year so on a personal level I wonder whether this is a passing of the torch. UVA takes pride and a commitment to defense that Duke once had. I've said it before on these boards in various threads, but our migration to a younger team caused by the one-and-done era has adversely affected our defensive prowess.

Great Duke teams of the past made a commitment to defense. But more than that, IMO Coach K's system requires not only talent and "smart" players, but an understanding of the game and communication that comes with time in the system (aka upperclassmen). Even when we started underclassman, they were not expected to carry the defense load and were playing with more experienced players who knew and taught the system, both during the game and in practice. That's no longer the case. Teams no longer fear Duke's defense. Even more than that, over the last several years our defense has become soft, less imposing, and easily picked apart. Remember those games when we would get into passing lanes, force our opponent to start their offense outside the three point arc, and disrupt the flow with our quickness? That's no longer the case, partially due to rules changes, but also because we lack experience and the communication required to be a defensive juggernaut.

Going back to my premise, that is exactly what UVA has become. I heard one of the UVA players interviewed recently and he basically said that they get more pumped to play defense than offense; that with every stop, their adrenaline and momentum increases and they gain more confidence on each end of the floor. As DBR noted in its front page article, UVA runs a system designed for non-athletes, but has amped it up by recruiting athletes perfectly suited for that style of play. Remember when Duke did that? Remember when each year we had a defensive stopper who could guard the other team's best player and disrupt their offense? With success, UVA is only going to get better as they are able to land quality recruits who fit the system. Like Coach K, Bennett is the real deal, only a younger version.

So I ask, are we witnessing the passing of the mantle? Is this a power shift in the conference? Is UVA the new Duke?
Could be. They will need to producing in the big dance. But it all starts with the D and Duke was a better defensive team in the old days when the rules allowed more physical play. K's schemes also seem to work better with teams that hang around together as it requires good communication. Given that UVa does not get many one and done players - they have created a good system and continuity. Duke also used to have that. But in the end - UVa will need to win in the NCAA to be taken seriously - and that has been a huge monkey on their program.

[stillcrazie]

I think they need to win a title or two before they can begin to be considered in this kind of conversation. That said, it is good to see them as a contender in the conference.

[Bob Green]

They are off to a good start. But let's see Bennett do it for at least a few years rather than rushing to find the next Duke.

I agree. Bennett appears to be a quality coach so UVA's prospects are good but let's see some sustainment and NCAAT success before scheduling a coronation.

[sagegrouse]

Let's see how this runs out for a couple of years:

In five years under Bennett, UVa has one ACC Championship (regular and tournament), one Sweet Sixteen, and two NCAA appearances.

In the same period Duke has two ACC championship, one (shared) regular season championship, an NCAA championship, an Elite Eight, a Sweet Sixteen, and five NCAA appearances.

[Troublemaker]

Let's wait on two things:

(1) What happens to UVA when their current junior class (Brogdon, Anderson, Gill, Tobey, etc) graduates? Do they continue to contend? Maybe UVA is the new Maryland circa the Juan Dixon / Lonny Baxter / Steve Blake era.

(2) What happens to Duke's defense this season as Matt and Marshall see an increase in minutes and the team in general continues to develop? The goal is not to be playing great defense in January.

[Karl Beem]

Just another good team with a good coach. What made Duke Duke was 7 FFs in 9 years.

[CDu]

Let's see how this runs out for a couple of years:

In five years under Bennett, UVa has one ACC Championship (regular and tournament), one Sweet Sixteen, and two NCAA appearances.

In the same period Duke has two ACC championship, one (shared) regular season championship, an NCAA championship, an Elite Eight, a Sweet Sixteen, and five NCAA appearances.

Exactly. I like Bennett and I think he is doing terrific things with UVa. But they have had all of 1.5 seasons at the top of the conference. Let's see it sustained a little longer before we get carried away.

[Duke3517]

I give UVA a lot of credit for what they have done last season and now this season. With that said it is an overreaction to say "they are the next Duke.". They do not have the longevity of success that Duke and even UNC has. I think it is unfair to the program to have expectations of success to the levels of Duke and UNC. I think a good barometer is to be a program like Maryland which is by no means a knock.

As long as the fans don't have lofty expectations they will certainly enjoy Coach Bennett and his teams for years to come.

Also be careful of Bennett leaving for another program in a year or two.

[Bob Green]

Also be careful of Bennett leaving for another program in a year or two.

Why would he leave? He is building a winner at a great university in a prestigious basketball conference.

[Duvall]

Why would he leave? He is building a winner at a great university in a prestigious basketball conference.

To be fair, there are 30 teams in a couple of even more prestigious basketball conferences, and one of them might be interested in Bennett.

[Duke3517]

Why would he leave? He is building a winner at a great university in a prestigious basketball conference.

Money

I will elaborate more so I don't get an infraction.

I know you will throw the name Stevens (which he left for the NBA), Shaka Smart, and Gregg Marshall at me but they have already stamped their resumes and are looking for the right gig.

Furthermore, teams like USC, UCLA, and Texas (yes Texas is ranked, I know) could come calling. Let's see how committed he is.

[NashvilleDevil]

Money

I will elaborate more so I don't get an infraction.

I know you will throw the name Stevens (which he left for the NBA), Shaka Smart, and Gregg Marshall at me but they have already stamped their resumes and are looking for the right gig.

Furthermore, teams like USC, UCLA, and Texas (yes Texas is ranked, I know) could come calling. Let's see how committed he is.

I think he stays at UVA. In the next 5-10 years UNC, Louisville, Syracuse, and possibly Duke could be replacing their coaches. There will be a void in the ACC and Bennett really has a chance to make UVA the dominant ACC team over the decade.

[Bob Green]

To be fair, there are 30 teams in a couple of even more prestigious basketball conferences, and one of them might be interested in Bennett.

Your point is valid. I'd be surprised to see Bennett move on, but anything is possible.

[brevity]

I think they need to win a title or two before they can begin to be considered in this kind of conversation.

I don't. Coach K had signature defense even before 1991. If UVA can sustain regular season success and start breaking through in the postseason, then yeah, maybe they can resemble Duke circa 1984-1990. Which is high praise. It's obviously early, but the OP is free to speculate on that comparison now, and brag if proven correct.

As for Duke, I think Coach K can still create a champion squad, but it may not look like the previous champions.

[wavedukefan70s]

No.they have just acquired a good coach and good players with some experience. Which I applaud .I like a strong acc.from top to bottom. It will let you know where your team is at.i more or less think of Virginia like several georgia tech squads of the past.

[dukebluesincebirth]

I can give UVA the new "signature defense" of college basketball. But the new Duke? Nah. No defining moments and/or defining players for me to even consider that.

[Bluegrassdevil1]

After reading a bunch of threads and articles, listening to interviews, and posting several comments on this board (and being sporked by people who agree), it occurred to me that UVA may be the "new Duke." I'm a Duke grad, Class of '88 and, coincidentally, my nephew enrolled in UVA this year so on a personal level I wonder whether this is a passing of the torch. UVA takes pride and a commitment to defense that Duke once had. I've said it before on these boards in various threads, but our migration to a younger team caused by the one-and-done era has adversely affected our defensive prowess.

Great Duke teams of the past made a commitment to defense. But more than that, IMO Coach K's system requires not only talent and "smart" players, but an understanding of the game and communication that comes with time in the system (aka upperclassmen). Even when we started underclassman, they were not expected to carry the defense load and were playing with more experienced players who knew and taught the system, both during the game and in practice. That's no longer the case. Teams no longer fear Duke's defense. Even more than that, over the last several years our defense has become soft, less imposing, and easily picked apart. Remember those games when we would get into passing lanes, force our opponent to start their offense outside the three point arc, and disrupt the flow with our quickness? That's no longer the case, partially due to rules changes, but also because we lack experience and the communication required to be a defensive juggernaut.

Going back to my premise, that is exactly what UVA has become. I heard one of the UVA players interviewed recently and he basically said that they get more pumped to play defense than offense; that with every stop, their adrenaline and momentum increases and they gain more confidence on each end of the floor. As DBR noted in its front page article, UVA runs a system designed for non-athletes, but has amped it up by recruiting athletes perfectly suited for that style of play. Remember when Duke did that? Remember when each year we had a defensive stopper who could guard the other team's best player and disrupt their offense? With success, UVA is only going to get better as they are able to land quality recruits who fit the system. Like Coach K, Bennett is the real deal, only a younger version.

So I ask, are we witnessing the passing of the mantle? Is this a power shift in the conference? Is UVA the new Duke?

This is an eloquent, and more importantly, reality-based observation, naturally leading to very little acknowledgment here at Don't Broach Reality. There is no question that UVA is in great hands, and anyone questioning the program's validity in the near future, likely finds things like "jinx" threads to have an impact on the actions and events of the world.

Regarding Bennett leaving the UVA program: If he does find himself in charge of another team in the near future, I hope that program is located at 115 Whitford Drive.

[jhmoss1812]

I wouldn't say there is a power shift in the ACC but there is now more balance with a team like UVA starting to assert itself. Keep in mind that this is only Bennett's 6th year at UVA. If you compare Bennett's first 5 years to Coach K's first 5 years, there's really not much difference and you could argue that UVA has had more success than Duke did. Coach K went to the finals in his 6th year at Duke but didn't get past the Round of 32 in his 1st five years. And you could argue that Coach K took over a Duke program that was in better shape than the UVA program that Bennett took over. So it's just not a fair comparison at all. UVA is not the new Duke. But just because Bennett hasn't done it yet doesn't mean it's not possible. It took Coach K a couple of years and it has taken Bennett a couple of years. Whether Bennett can start achieving more success in the postseason is yet to be seen. But this is not the UVA that you are used to rolling over.

[MarkD83]

There is a lot of discussion about racking up accomplishments before being the next Duke. However the premise of having a system based on defense experienced leaders and a tradition of passing on team values through the players is a very Duke thing. This does not mean We at Duke have to give up our position in the pantheon of college basketball. It is more a thing to admire that Bennett is setting up his program in a very Dukeesque way

[subzero02]

After reading a bunch of threads and articles, listening to interviews, and posting several comments on this board (and being sporked by people who agree), it occurred to me that UVA may be the "new Duke." I'm a Duke grad, Class of '88 and, coincidentally, my nephew enrolled in UVA this year so on a personal level I wonder whether this is a passing of the torch. UVA takes pride and a commitment to defense that Duke once had. I've said it before on these boards in various threads, but our migration to a younger team caused by the one-and-done era has adversely affected our defensive prowess.

Great Duke teams of the past made a commitment to defense. But more than that, IMO Coach K's system requires not only talent and "smart" players, but an understanding of the game and communication that comes with time in the system (aka upperclassmen). Even when we started underclassman, they were not expected to carry the defense load and were playing with more experienced players who knew and taught the system, both during the game and in practice. That's no longer the case. Teams no longer fear Duke's defense. Even more than that, over the last several years our defense has become soft, less imposing, and easily picked apart. Remember those games when we would get into passing lanes, force our opponent to start their offense outside the three point arc, and disrupt the flow with our quickness? That's no longer the case, partially due to rules changes, but also because we lack experience and the communication required to be a defensive juggernaut.

Going back to my premise, that is exactly what UVA has become. I heard one of the UVA players interviewed recently and he basically said that they get more pumped to play defense than offense; that with every stop, their adrenaline and momentum increases and they gain more confidence on each end of the floor. As DBR noted in its front page article, UVA runs a system designed for non-athletes, but has amped it up by recruiting athletes perfectly suited for that style of play. Remember when Duke did that? Remember when each year we had a defensive stopper who could guard the other team's best player and disrupt their offense? With success, UVA is only going to get better as they are able to land quality recruits who fit the system. Like Coach K, Bennett is the real deal, only a younger version.

So I ask, are we witnessing the passing of the mantle? Is this a power shift in the conference? Is UVA the new Duke?

I thought that was Butler... Let's see them reach a final four first.

[jmck214]

This may come off as a homer comment but there will never be another Duke. Even UNC, Kentucky, Michigan State, and Kansas have down years every 5 years or so where they are a fringe tourney team. A down year for Duke is a 3 seed in the tourney. With that said I do think Tony Bennett has UVA on the verge of joining the teams I just mentioned

[sagegrouse]

Just another good team with a good coach. What made Duke Duke was 7 FFs in 9 years.

And in the 15 years between the 1996-1997 season and 2010-2011 -- ten ACC championships and eight regular season ACC championships.

[MChambers]

Not unless "is" means "might be". Bennett's done a great job, but let's see how he does over a longer period before anointing them the new Duke. For one thing, can he recruit well enough? UVa's style of play on offense is like a dentist appointment, which may make many recruits stay away.

[JBDuke]

After reading a bunch of threads and articles, listening to interviews, and posting several comments on this board (and being sporked by people who agree), it occurred to me that UVA may be the "new Duke." I'm a Duke grad, Class of '88 and, coincidentally, my nephew enrolled in UVA this year so on a personal level I wonder whether this is a passing of the torch. UVA takes pride and a commitment to defense that Duke once had. I've said it before on these boards in various threads, but our migration to a younger team caused by the one-and-done era has adversely affected our defensive prowess.

Great Duke teams of the past made a commitment to defense. But more than that, IMO Coach K's system requires not only talent and "smart" players, but an understanding of the game and communication that comes with time in the system (aka upperclassmen). Even when we started underclassman, they were not expected to carry the defense load and were playing with more experienced players who knew and taught the system, both during the game and in practice. That's no longer the case. Teams no longer fear Duke's defense. Even more than that, over the last several years our defense has become soft, less imposing, and easily picked apart. Remember those games when we would get into passing lanes, force our opponent to start their offense outside the three point arc, and disrupt the flow with our quickness? That's no longer the case, partially due to rules changes, but also because we lack experience and the communication required to be a defensive juggernaut.

Going back to my premise, that is exactly what UVA has become. I heard one of the UVA players interviewed recently and he basically said that they get more pumped to play defense than offense; that with every stop, their adrenaline and momentum increases and they gain more confidence on each end of the floor. As DBR noted in its front page article, UVA runs a system designed for non-athletes, but has amped it up by recruiting athletes perfectly suited for that style of play. Remember when Duke did that? Remember when each year we had a defensive stopper who could guard the other team's best player and disrupt their offense? With success, UVA is only going to get better as they are able to land quality recruits who fit the system. Like Coach K, Bennett is the real deal, only a younger version.

So I ask, are we witnessing the passing of the mantle? Is this a power shift in the conference? Is UVA the new Duke?

As others have said, UVA has a lot to prove yet. Perhaps, the best Duke comparison would be to Duke of say, 1985 or 1986. Bennett is a couple of years into building a program. His first really good class of recruits are now juniors. They've tasted a little postseason success, but mostly in conference. He's got good players, but few highly recruited ones. His teams play well together, and are especially good on defense. They've started getting some national recognition and are ranked higher in the polls than they have been in years.

So, as for being the "next Duke", Bennett's got them started down that road, but he's got a long way to go yet. Duke's first great NCAA run under K was 1986. Bennett hasn't had one yet - perhaps this year? Maybe this will be his 1986. But to become the "next Duke", even the Duke of your era and mine (class of '88 for you, '89 for me), he's going to have to keep UVA going strong for a couple of more years. To become the premier program in the country, he's going to need a NCAA Championship or two and several years of sustained success and continual top 10 rankings. That's where Duke has been for most of the last 25 years.

[Wander]

What made Duke Duke was 7 FFs in 9 years.

Which means that, whatever other important differences there may be, the closest thing is Kentucky. If they make the Final Four this year, it'll be 4 in 5 years.

[Wahoo2000]

There's only one Duke, and as long as K is still stalking the sidelines in Cameron........ you're the kings.

Could we become the ACC's top banana from a "program" standpoint? Possibly, but that will take at least 10-20 years.

Empires aren't built overnight, and as big of a UVA fan as I am, I'd quickly acknowledge that Bennett has only taken the very first step up the GIANT mountain to be mentioned with guys like Dean & K (and now Petino and Boeheim).

Hope you guys lose tonight (sorry), but right the ship the rest of the way and finish the season out strong.

[Devilwin]

They're the new Virginia. That's all. A fine team with a brilliant coach.
But.
There's a reason fans of other teams rush the court when they beat Duke. Because they have beaten the most dominant college basketball team in the last 25 years.
We win tonight....

[Troublemaker]

This is an eloquent, and more importantly, reality-based observation, naturally leading to very little acknowledgment here at Don't Broach Reality. There is no question that UVA is in great hands, and anyone questioning the program's validity in the near future, likely finds things like "jinx" threads to have an impact on the actions and events of the world.

Regarding Bennett leaving the UVA program: If he does find himself in charge of another team in the near future, I hope that program is located at 115 Whitford Drive.

Hmmm, this post is a bit obnoxious. I'm pretty sure everyone saying "it could go either way" and "it's early; let's wait and see" are giving "reality-based" and fair answers to the question of whether UVA is about to embark on 30 years of dominance. Weren't you the one who earlier this season said he would be shocked if Wisconsin didn't make the Final Four? Now, the Badgers might very well end up in the Final Four, and UVA might very well end up being the new Duke, but I would submit that you should probably stay away from conversations involving probabilities. And casinos.

[jv001]

There's only one Duke, and as long as K is still stalking the sidelines in Cameron........ you're the kings.

Could we become the ACC's top banana from a "program" standpoint? Possibly, but that will take at least 10-20 years.

Empires aren't built overnight, and as big of a UVA fan as I am, I'd quickly acknowledge that Bennett has only taken the very first step up the GIANT mountain to be mentioned with guys like Dean & K (and now Petino and Boeheim).

Hope you guys lose tonight (sorry), but right the ship the rest of the way and finish the season out strong.

Good post. The most impressive thing is that Virginia and Duke both do it the right way. Great academics, good kids and very good coaches. GoDuke!

[eddie_yvp]

There's a lot about "being Duke" that simply can't be replicated. So no, UVA is not or will not be the next Duke.

With that said, UVA very well could enjoy more success over the next 10+ years than any other ACC school should Bennett stick around. I get the feeling that he is the real deal and is more interested in building his own elite program rather than taking over a traditional powerhouse like a UCLA. Once he gets more credit for developing players and putting guys into the league, he's going to win more recruiting battles (and he is already having more recruiting success than he has had previously).

I don't think even the most optimistic of UVA fans could expect to duplicate the kind of success that Duke has enjoyed over the past 30 years. But consistently being in the conversation for ACC titles and final four appearances and winning a national title or two is certainly not out of the realm of possibility given what Bennett is building.

[CDu]

This is an eloquent, and more importantly, reality-based observation, naturally leading to very little acknowledgment here at Don't Broach Reality. There is no question that UVA is in great hands, and anyone questioning the program's validity in the near future, likely finds things like "jinx" threads to have an impact on the actions and events of the world.

Regarding Bennett leaving the UVA program: If he does find himself in charge of another team in the near future, I hope that program is located at 115 Whitford Drive.

I don't think a single person has said UVa is not in great hands, nor is anyone questioning the program's validity. We are just saying that UVa needs to maintain it for a long while longer before they can lay claim to being the new Duke.

[MaxAMillion]

After reading a bunch of threads and articles, listening to interviews, and posting several comments on this board (and being sporked by people who agree), it occurred to me that UVA may be the "new Duke." I'm a Duke grad, Class of '88 and, coincidentally, my nephew enrolled in UVA this year so on a personal level I wonder whether this is a passing of the torch. UVA takes pride and a commitment to defense that Duke once had. I've said it before on these boards in various threads, but our migration to a younger team caused by the one-and-done era has adversely affected our defensive prowess.

Great Duke teams of the past made a commitment to defense. But more than that, IMO Coach K's system requires not only talent and "smart" players, but an understanding of the game and communication that comes with time in the system (aka upperclassmen). Even when we started underclassman, they were not expected to carry the defense load and were playing with more experienced players who knew and taught the system, both during the game and in practice. That's no longer the case. Teams no longer fear Duke's defense. Even more than that, over the last several years our defense has become soft, less imposing, and easily picked apart. Remember those games when we would get into passing lanes, force our opponent to start their offense outside the three point arc, and disrupt the flow with our quickness? That's no longer the case, partially due to rules changes, but also because we lack experience and the communication required to be a defensive juggernaut.

Going back to my premise, that is exactly what UVA has become. I heard one of the UVA players interviewed recently and he basically said that they get more pumped to play defense than offense; that with every stop, their adrenaline and momentum increases and they gain more confidence on each end of the floor. As DBR noted in its front page article, UVA runs a system designed for non-athletes, but has amped it up by recruiting athletes perfectly suited for that style of play. Remember when Duke did that? Remember when each year we had a defensive stopper who could guard the other team's best player and disrupt their offense? With success, UVA is only going to get better as they are able to land quality recruits who fit the system. Like Coach K, Bennett is the real deal, only a younger version.

So I ask, are we witnessing the passing of the mantle? Is this a power shift in the conference? Is UVA the new Duke?

No, but if it makes you feel good to trumpet UVA and dismiss Coach K and Duke then go ahead.

[jhmoss1812]

I don't think a single person has said UVa is not in great hands, nor is anyone questioning the program's validity. We are just saying that UVa needs to maintain it for a long while longer before they can lay claim to being the new Duke.

You realize this was started by a Duke fan right? I don't think a single UVA on this planet thinks we're anywhere close to being Duke.

[CDu]

You realize this was started by a Duke fan right? I don't think a single UVA on this planet thinks we're anywhere close to being Duke.

Yes I realize this was started by a Duke fan. I never said UVa fans believe what the original poster asked to be true. I was commenying on one Duke fan's response to another Duke fan's post. The "we" I was referring to was other posters (independent of their fanship) who disagreed with the original post's premise - not Duke fan vs UVa fan thing at all. The "they" was the UVa program, not UVa fans.

[Rich]

No, but if it makes you feel good to trumpet UVA and dismiss Coach K and Duke then go ahead.

I have always been, and will always be, a Duke fan. I'm not trumpeting UVA nor am I dismissing Coach K or his accomplishments. But perhaps it would be more accurate to say that I see a striking resemblance between the UVA of today and Duke in the last 30 years (absent the last several). I long for a team that can dominate a game with their defense. To me, that's Duke basketball and I haven't seen that recently. But I do agree with many posters who have said that it will take sustained excellence over a number of years before UVA can achieve what we have. That doesn't take anything away from Duke's or K's accomplishments or my love for the program.

[miramar]

Good post. The most impressive thing is that Virginia and Duke both do it the right way. Great academics, good kids and very good coaches. GoDuke!

Nobody will ever call Virginia the new UNC.

[Edouble]

UVa's style of play on offense is like a dentist appointment, which may make many recruits stay away.

So that's why Malcolm Brogdon has such white teeth!

[Chillduck]

I would not be surprised that when Bo Ryan retires at Wisconsin, they target Tony Bennett. His dad coached there and is a legend, and his roots are there. As a fellow cheesehead, if he goes anywhere, that is where he needs to go.

[eddie_yvp]

I would not be surprised that when Bo Ryan retires at Wisconsin, they target Tony Bennett. His dad coached there and is a legend, and his roots are there. As a fellow cheesehead, if he goes anywhere, that is where he needs to go.

Sure he has ties there, but I've heard it didn't necessarily end all that friendly for the Bennetts. Regardless, I'm curious why people think Wisconsin is a better destination for him. Does he really have a better chance to win there over UVA? ACC, fertile recruiting grounds, facilities, great academic school, great college town. UVA has everything he needs to build an elite program. If he does have some strong personal connection to Wisky, then sure, he might end up there. But I don't see it.

I do think he might wind up in the NBA one day - but only after he feels like he's accomplished all he needs to in Charlottesville. And probably not before his kids are grown up.

[DukeandMdFan]

The OP said he was Class of '88.

The '86 team remains my favorite. At that time, everyone loved the Duke team. It was a very strong ACC and Duke was the best of them. Duke returned to the Finals for the first time since '78. UNC and NC State had recently won Nat'l championships and Duke hadn't won any NCAA championships yet. Duke players were portrayed as smart and personable - ideal student athletes. The media loved Duke, but hadn't been praising Duke for so long that it became obnoxious to everyone else.

This UVA team bears some resemblance to the Duke of the late '80s in that most other teams respect them and can be happy for them having some success....Anybody But Carolina...

[Turk]

I like what Bennett has done so far. I like the way his teams play, the way he handles the ups and downs within a game, and what UVa has done so far this season. His next hurdles will be going deep in March and reloading / passing the torch year after year in the current recruiting climate. There are a lot of similarities in how Bennett is building the program with how K did it. Would love a renewed and energetic rivalry with UVa as the cheaters fall into chaos. "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery..."

[Edouble]

I'm hearing that Wake is the new Clemson.

[orrnot]

I believe this has been a football discussion topic in recent years, and I much prefer that transition.

[flyingdutchdevil]

...No. UVA has been outstanding the last two years, and they have overachieved in comparison to where they were supposed to be.

With that said, I believe that Tony Bennett is currently the best preparation and in-game coach in the NCAA (obviously, there are dozens of coaches with better pedigrees, W-L records, and sustainability track records. But Bennett is going the most with the least right now). His ability to win games - tough or not tough - has been quite outstanding, and he is going this with recruits aren't in the top 50 in their class (or barely, as Justin Anderson was #49 according to ESPN). Bennett hasn't gotten it done in the tournament, but the last two years have taught me that this is the toughest team in the country.

If Bennett can recruit better (ie more talent coming out of high school) while preaching the same philosophy, he can become as consistent as Duke. But, right now, it looks like Bennett may be the kind of coach who produces a really good team half the time and a competitive bubble team the other times.

[Rich]

Last night answered my question. It is clear that Duke is the new Duke!

[Rich]

I'm re-introducing this thread so people who believe that UVA now runs a better college system than Duke can vent and put their thoughts here. I started this thread in January 2015, a few months before our latest championship. It seems so many people now believe that Duke's approach of recruiting the best available players has been superseded by Virginia's model so I thought it was time to revisit it.

[YmoBeThere]

They've added an Elite Eight and a Round of 32 appearance. By his 9th season at Duke, Coach K had 3 Final Four appearances. Jury is still out.

[JBDuke]

They've added an Elite Eight and a Round of 32 appearance. By his 9th season at Duke, Coach K had 3 Final Four appearances. Jury is still out.

Agreed. Bennett and the UVA program have yet to live up to their regular season success during the NCAA tournament. As I said three years ago, until he takes his teams deeper into the tournament on a regular basis, making a case for UVA as a pre-eminent program is hard to make.

[Furniture]

I don’t know I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. about basketball but in my opinion it’s a no no no! Nope!

[DarkstarWahoo]

Let's see how this runs out for a couple of years:

In five years under Bennett, UVa has one ACC Championship (regular and tournament), one Sweet Sixteen, and two NCAA appearances.

In the same period Duke has two ACC championship, one (shared) regular season championship, an NCAA championship, an Elite Eight, a Sweet Sixteen, and five NCAA appearances.

I didn’t realize this wasn’t an old thread and was so, so confused when I read this.

[PackMan97]

UVa can't be the next Duke. Even Duke haters enjoyed watching Duke play basketball. I'm not sure anyone, even their fans enjoy watching UVa play basketball.

[CameronBornAndBred]

UVa can't be the next Duke. Even Duke haters enjoyed watching Duke play basketball. I'm not sure anyone, even their fans enjoy watching UVa play basketball.
HA! Instantly reminded me of the "Boring!" chants in Cameron during Dean's four corners games.

[W&LHoo]

UVa can't be the next Duke. Even Duke haters enjoyed watching Duke play basketball. I'm not sure anyone, even their fans enjoy watching UVa play basketball.

I can assure you I've enjoyed watching every game this season.

[uh_no]

I can assure you I've enjoyed watching every game this season.

you're not alone. I appreciate highly efficient basketball...especially when it involves huge amounts of teamwork. The fact that the tempo is slower affects my appreciation of it none.

People here seem to conveniently ignore that 2010 duke was extremely slow and efficient...while slamming UVA for playing the same way. Of course, the answer will then be "well UVA fouls all the time," or some other excuse why it was okay for 2010 duke, but not okay for present day uva. whatever. If no one else here can, I can appreciate how well UVA's system works, and enjoy watching it because of how efficient it is.

[Sixthman]

Not so much -- but good question.

[dukelifer]

Need to get to FF’s before they can even come close to a comparison.

[sagegrouse]

I am getting tired of the UVa idolatry displayed in this thread title and the other one about "amazing defense." This is a Duke fan site. Pretty soon, word will get around that this is the best place for Wahoos to hang out. I mean, few are fine, but really.

[dukelion]

No....next question.

[Wahoo2000]

I am getting tired of the UVa idolatry displayed in this thread title and the other one about "amazing defense." This is a Duke fan site. Pretty soon, word will get around that this is the best place for Wahoos to hang out. I mean, few are fine, but really.

Even as a Wahoo, I agree. The only real way for people/fans to reasonably hate UVA is if we receive too much praise...... so cut it out, guys! ;-)

[Devilwin]

I agree with Sagegrouse. Although I respect their program tremendously, the worship here was kind of getting out of hand. I mean, they are one of our rivals. One of the good guys however, unlike the punks we play Thursday.

[SkyBrickey]

Starting in Coach K's 6th year at Duke, he led the team to 7 Final Fours in 9 years (I was there for 3 of them). Love Tony B. and what he's doing with the program, but let's not get carried away...

[Troublemaker]

I am getting tired of the UVa idolatry displayed in this thread title and the other one about "amazing defense." This is a Duke fan site. Pretty soon, word will get around that this is the best place for Wahoos to hang out. I mean, few are fine, but really.


I agree with Sagegrouse. Although I respect their program tremendously, the worship here was kind of getting out of hand. I mean, they are one of our rivals. One of the good guys however, unlike the punks we play Thursday.

Agreed. Also, keep in mind that all ACC fans hate us, and UVA is no exception. Their fans who show up here are smart enough to obey the rules and be civil (and should be commended for that). But, if you visit their home message boards, UVA fans are no less virulent towards Duke than anyone else. In fact, they probably rank behind only UNC as far as hating Duke.

[thedukelamere]

In fact, they probably rank behind only UNC as far as hating Duke.

345 way tie for 2nd place?

[PackMan97]

Agreed. Also, keep in mind that all ACC fans hate us, and UVA is no exception.

Not all...but lose to the Cheaters this week and that will change. :mad:

[Billy Dat]

I am getting tired of the UVa idolatry displayed in this thread title and the other one about "amazing defense." This is a Duke fan site. Pretty soon, word will get around that this is the best place for Wahoos to hang out. I mean, few are fine, but really.

This has been bugging me, too, Sage. I am glad you spoke up. The respectful/insightful commentary from the UVa fans is fine, but I agree that we probably passed some line from respectful accommodating to embarrassing fawning some time ago.

UVa, to its credit, has emerged as a big bad boy in the nation and the conference and therefore I want Duke to beat their brains in. It's hard for me to feel that way AND show up at this forum and see a meaningful portion of this community stroking them. That's on me, everyone can do what they want and I try and avoid these threads...but since Sage was brave and I was a coward, I wanted to add my voice.

[sagegrouse]

T That's on me, everyone can do what they want and I try and avoid these threads...but since Sage was brave and I was a coward, I wanted to add my voice.

Thanks, but I am just a curmudgeon and grousing is an innate trait.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I mean, they are one of our rivals.

They aren't the new Duke, they are the new Maryland!

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/virginia-solidifies-itself-as-duke-s-maryland-replacement/17301545/

[Jeffrey]

I'm re-introducing this thread so people who believe that UVA now runs a better college system than Duke can vent and put their thoughts here. I started this thread in January 2015, a few months before our latest championship.

I'm glad you re-introduced it a few months before our next championship.

[jv001]

They aren't the new Duke, they are the new Maryland!

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/virginia-solidifies-itself-as-duke-s-maryland-replacement/17301545/

Virginia= class
Twerps= classless
uncheats= don't know what class means because the players never went there.

GoDuke!

[Dukehky]

They haven't ever been to a Final Four. No they are not the new Duke. Shut this thing down.

[Jeffrey]

Virginia= class
Twerps= classless


Agreed, it's a comparison UVA should hate.

[CajunDevil]

No, UVa is not the new Duke. Here are a few reasons... but certainly not a comprehensive list.

(1) Battle for, and get the best players - UVa clearly doesn't get the best players. Why not? Their snails-pace style of play does not attract top recruits, and getting the best players was a staple of Duke's program (starting in late 80s/early 90s). Perhaps it's too early to judge whether Bennett gets similar talent to K until he reaches year 10. Also, perhaps, once the rule is changed to 2AD, then maybe UVa and Duke will compete for the same kids... but I doubt it. UVa will still have the style-of-play issue recruits don't seem fond of...

(2) National Results. Winning ACC regular season "championships" is fine, but in the OAD era it really holds much less meaning than it did when all teams kept players for 3-4 years. However, until Bennett gets to final fours... then wins one, any talk of being the new Duke is premature.

[jhmoss1812]

Keep in mind that this thread was started by a Duke fan. I don't think one single reasonable UVA fan has even come close to making this type of declaration.

Plus, it's not even a fair comparison. Duke doesn't have to compete against Coach K in the landscape of college basketball. I'm ready for all these HOF coaches to retire.

I also understand the frustration of Duke fans having UVA threads on their board. TheSabre (ugh awful format) is littered with Duke and VT threads. I hate it.

[elvis14]

I think it's just fine to give credit to UVa for the success they have had and to recognize the upward trend they have been on. I don't think it's necessary to use that success to compare them to Duke. I will admit that you can add me to the list of people that appreciate their results but would rather watch other teams play. I hope UVa continues to do well and continues to beat UNCheat.

[DarkstarWahoo]

Agreed, it's a comparison UVA should hate.

It is, and yet it's apt in one weird way - defensive style. Those Gary Williams teams hedged like crazy on high screens.

This may be sacrilege, but I miss Gary. Sitting courtside when he was in earshot was a unique treat. The man would string together profanities that would make your head spin. He was an artist working in a medium that was made for him.

[CameronBornAndBred]

He was an artist swimming in a medium that was made for him.

FIFY

[Mike Corey]

Virginia is the new Wisconsin, in a better basketball conference, with a better academic reputation.

[Wahoo2000]

Virginia is the new Wisconsin, in a better basketball conference, with a better academic reputation.

I think over the last 5 seasons, we've been a lot more "consistently good" than Wisconsin ever has been in a 5 year stretch (measuring by regular season rankings/record/success). Our obvious lack of a FF in the last few years hurts, and people are free to use that to "knock us down a peg" if they like and I won't complain. Though I don't personally agree.

13-14: 30-7, ACC Champs (Double), tourney 1 seed
14-15: 30-4, ACC Champs (reg season), tourney 2 seed (#5 overall)
15-16: 29-8, ACC 2nd place (reg season), tourney 1 seed
16-17: 23-11, ACC 5th place (reg season), tourney 5 seed (should mention that despite the loss of our best player after 1 game, we were still top 10 most of the year until Wilkins' sickle-cell trait flared up - we didn't handle being down our 2 best bigs very well)
17-18(so far): 22-1, 1st place ACC, tourney PROJECTED 1 seed

I mean, aside from Austin Nichols being a total nitwit, we've been a REGULAR SEASON monster since January 2014. Unless Guy/Jerome/Hunter get some love from the scouts I'm not expecting for at least ONE more season, I think we'll be right there again next year too. Bennett has built a MACHINE, the only question is, unfortunately for Hoos, the most IMPORTANT question - can we translate that success to better postseason results?

Personally, I think so. Still, I'd readily admit that I'd rather be REALLY good every year then struggle in the tournament than go back to the Leitao/Gillen days. Plus Bennett seems to get good character kids that stick around and that makes him/them easy to root for.

I have a VERY healthy respect for Duke and K's accomplishments. Still want desperately to beat the Devils EVERY TIME OUT. I think you can respect a conference rival, and still want to smash them when you play.

[ipatent]

I'm a big Bennett fan, but his record so far (particularly the post season) falls well short of Coach K's at a similar period of time at the school.

[CameronBornAndBred]

It's safe to answer this question with a definitive "no".

[dukelion]

Nope

[weezie]

While there has been a great deal of Bennett boosting here, the thing about K is that he learned to change. He evolved. His strategies expanded.

Perhaps that is what Bennett will one day learn, too. One ultra-conservative defense and one slow down offense won't attract the bangers and shooters that any coach needs for the ultimate success.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I'm a big Bennett fan, but his record so far (particularly the post season) falls well short of Coach K's at a similar period of time at the school.

Off top of my head, at about this juncture in K's days at Duke, he was getting to all the Final Fours, but had not broken through yet. Bennett is no where close to that.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Plus, it's not even a fair comparison. Duke doesn't have to compete against Coach K in the landscape of college basketball. I'm ready for all these HOF coaches to retire.


Uh, actually K DID have to compete against that coach.......named Smith......just 8 miles down the road. He also had to coach against the hot new thing, Jimmy V....just 30 miles down the road.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Off top of my head, at about this juncture in K's days at Duke, he was getting to all the Final Fours, but had not broken through yet. Bennett is no where close to that.

Bennett's not even doing as well as Coach P. :p:rolleyes:

[sagegrouse]

UVa's record in the NCAA Tournament as a #1 seed is 12-6, and according to ESPN, the worst of any team with at least ten games.

I am still checking some years where I am not sure we were a number one, but Duke's record is something like 47-7.

Kindly,
Sage

[HereBeforeCoachK]

UVa's record in the NCAA Tournament as a #1 seed is 12-6, and according to ESPN, the worst of any team with at least ten games.

I am still checking some years where I am not sure we were a number one, but Duke's record is something like 47-7.

Kindly,
Sage

Do you have that 12-6 broken down for what was Bennett's? Or is that Bennett's?

[tbyers11]

Do you have that 12-6 broken down for what was Bennett's? Or is that Bennett's?


Looks like 5-3 for Bennett and 7-3 for Terry Holland from 1981-1983 (with one of the wins occurring in the final 3rd place game ever in 1981)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Do you have that 12-6 broken down for what was Bennett's? Or is that Bennett's?

No way that Bennett has been a one seed six times.

[sagegrouse]

UVa's record in the NCAA Tournament as a #1 seed is 12-6, and according to ESPN, the worst of any team with at least ten games.

I am still checking some years where I am not sure we were a number one, but Duke's record is something like 47-7.

Kindly,
Sage

Duke is 51-9, or 0.850.

Uhh.. with four titles as a #1 seed, it means Duke has been a #1 seed 13 times.

[jv001]

While there has been a great deal of Bennett boosting here, the thing about K is that he learned to change. He evolved. His strategies expanded.

Perhaps that is what Bennett will one day learn, too. One ultra-conservative defense and one slow down offense won't attract the bangers and shooters that any coach needs for the ultimate success.

weezie, I mostly agree with your post, but it did take Coach K a very long time to begin to use the zone as Duke's primary defense or even use it more than 3 or 4 minutes per game, :cool: However he has been great at making adjustments in game and even during practice time when there is a break in the schedule. GOAT! GoDuke!

[ndkjr70]

No way that Bennett has been a one seed six times.

That isn’t how that works, haha. If Bennett’s team lost in the elite 8 as a 1 seed, they’d be 3-1.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

weezie, I mostly agree with your post, but it did take Coach K a very long time to begin to use the zone as Duke's primary defense or even use it more than 3 or 4 minutes per game, :cool: However he has been great at making adjustments in game and even during practice time when there is a break in the schedule. GOAT! GoDuke!

This is the perpetual question...has K been too stubborn over the years about zone, and about not developing depth? Or is that part of his secret sauce to success? Or is it some of both?

NO way to go back and replay those things....hard to argue with the GOAT resume...

[PackMan97]

Asking is UVa the new Duke is asking the wrong question. Maybe we should ask is Coack Keatts the new Coach K?

3-1 against Hall of Fame coaches in season 1 ;)

Of course, the knock on Keatts is he has yet to win an NCAAT game.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

That isn’t how that works, haha. If Bennett’s team lost in the elite 8 as a 1 seed, they’d be 3-1.

Um, that's exactly how it works. If they have six losses as a one seed and no nattys, they have been a one seed six times.

[ndkjr70]

Um, that's exactly how it works. If they have six losses as a one seed and no nattys, they have been a one seed six times.

Momma never said I was a good listener. Thought you were referring to the 5-3 record.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Momma never said I was a good listener. Thought you were referring to the 5-3 record.

No harm. Go Duke!

[dukelifer]

Asking is UVa the new Duke is asking the wrong question. Maybe we should ask is Coack Keatts the new Coach K?

3-1 against Hall of Fame coaches in season 1 ;)

Of course, the knock on Keatts is he has yet to win an NCAAT game.

College coaches are judged by their post season success - that is it. Of active coaches- K is 1 and Roy is 2 and a few others behind that. Keatts is a nice coach and with some luck he has a chance to make some more ACC noise- but as Bennett knows better than anyone- the post season matters.

[Kedsy]

I'm a big Bennett fan, but his record so far (particularly the post season) falls well short of Coach K's at a similar period of time at the school.

Actually, his record so far falls short of Coach K's only in the post-season. And really only in the NCAAT (because the ACCT is "post season" too).

Bennett, first 9 years at UVa:
219-86 (.718) overall; 105-51 (.673) ACC; 3 ACC regular season championships; 2 ACC tournament championships.

K, first 9 years at Duke:
231-101 (.696) overall; 76-64 (.543) ACC; 1 ACC regular season championships; 2 ACC tournament championships, 4 Final Fours, 0 national championships.

Bennett has been much better in the regular season, the same in the ACC tournament, and worse in the NCAA tournament.


College coaches are judged by their post season success - that is it.

Exactly who judges them that way? ESPN? Spoiled fan bases of Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, and Michigan State?

There are only seven active college coaches who have won national championships (K, Roy, Cal, J Wright, Self, Boeheim, and Izzo; only K and Roy have won more than one). How do the other 344 Division I schools judge their coaches? It's odd, but two other coaches who won championships were recently fired (Tubby Smith and Kevin Ollie) -- I guess their schools judged them on something other than post season success?

[arnie]

Actually, his record so far falls short of Coach K's only in the post-season. And really only in the NCAAT (because the ACCT is "post season" too).

Bennett, first 9 years at UVa:
219-86 (.718) overall; 105-51 (.673) ACC; 3 ACC regular season championships; 2 ACC tournament championships.

K, first 9 years at Duke:
231-101 (.696) overall; 76-64 (.543) ACC; 1 ACC regular season championships; 2 ACC tournament championships, 4 Final Fours, 0 national championships.

Bennett has been much better in the regular season, the same in the ACC tournament, and worse in the NCAA tournament.



Exactly who judges them that way? ESPN? Spoiled fan bases of Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, and Michigan State?

There are only seven active college coaches who have won national championships (K, Roy, Cal, J Wright, Self, Boeheim, and Izzo; only K and Roy have won more than one). How do the other 344 Division I schools judge their coaches? It's odd, but two other coaches who won championships were recently fired (Tubby Smith and Kevin Ollie) -- I guess their schools judged them on something other than post season success?

Actually you’ve overstated K’s post season success, we made 3 Final 4’s in his first 9 years (81-89). I can assure you that a lot more people than you listed judge coaches from strong conferences with No. 1 seeds on their tourney success. Bennett’s been a blessing for UVA, but until he at least reaches a Final Four, he and UVA fans will believe his success has been incomplete.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Exactly who judges them that way? ESPN? Spoiled fan bases of Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, and Michigan State?

There are only seven active college coaches who have won national championships (K, Roy, Cal, J Wright, Self, Boeheim, and Izzo; only K and Roy have won more than one). How do the other 344 Division I schools judge their coaches? It's odd, but two other coaches who won championships were recently fired (Tubby Smith and Kevin Ollie) -- I guess their schools judged them on something other than post season success?
I would bet that Coach P shares your viewpoint and frustration. :rolleyes:

[ns7]

Um, that's exactly how it works. If they have six losses as a one seed and no nattys, they have been a one seed six times.

Three of those losses were from before Bennett became their HC.

[Kedsy]

Actually you’ve overstated K’s post season success, we made 3 Final 4’s in his first 9 years (81-89). I can assure you that a lot more people than you listed judge coaches from strong conferences with No. 1 seeds on their tourney success. Bennett’s been a blessing for UVA, but until he at least reaches a Final Four, he and UVA fans will believe his success has been incomplete.

You're right. I overstated everything because my stats were for Coach K's first 10 seasons (sorry about that). Other than Final Fours (again) that would make Bennett's numbers look even better against Coach K's.

And I'm not saying his success is complete, just that it's foolish to judge coaches solely on NCAA tournament performance.

[sagegrouse]

No way that Bennett has been a one seed six times.

You're right -- but UVa has -- three times under Terry Holland (ahem, Sampson) and three times with Bennett (2014, 2016, 2018). Their combined record in the championship bracket is 11-6:

1981 3-1 National third place (ignores consolation win in FF)
1982 1-1 Regional semis lost to UAB
1983 2-1 Regional runner-up, losing by a point to NC State
Overall Holland as #1 seed: 6-3 (No round of 64 in those days and probably would have been better with that -- of course, Terry Holland could have become the first coach of a #1 seed to lose to a #16 seed)

2014 2-1 Lost to Mich. State in Sweet 16
2016 3-1 Lost to Syracuse in Elite 8, blowing a big lead
2018 0-1 Ugh
Overall Bennett as #1 seed: 5-3

[jv001]

You're right -- but UVa has -- three times under Terry Holland (ahem, Sampson) and three times with Bennett (2014, 2016, 2018). Their combined record in the championship bracket is 11-6:

1981 3-1 National third place (ignores consolation win in FF)
1982 1-1 Regional semis lost to UAB
1983 2-1 Regional runner-up, losing by a point to NC State
Overall Holland as #1 seed: 6-3 (No round of 64 in those days and probably would have been better with that -- of course, Terry Holland could have become the first coach of a #1 seed to lose to a #16 seed)

2014 2-1 Lost to Mich. State in Sweet 16
2016 3-1 Lost to Syracuse in Elite 8, blowing a big lead
2018 0-1 Ugh
Overall Bennett as #1 seed: 5-3

UVA should just mail it in next season and wait for 2020. Looks like Bennett likes the even number years. GoDuke!

[kako]

This might have been said, but when UVA has 5 national championships, goes to 16 FFs with 5 in a row, make the tourney 23 times in a row, has 20 ACC crowns, inspires the "Anyone But Virginia" mantra and has a coach with 1000+ wins, only then can this question be asked.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

This might have been said, but when UVA has 5 national championships, goes to 16 FFs with 5 in a row, make the tourney 23 times in a row, has 20 ACC crowns, inspires the "Anyone But Virginia" mantra and has a coach with 1000+ wins, only then can this question be asked.

...and when Big East fans wear Vuck Firginia tee shirts, even when UVa is nowhere near the game they are at.......

[throatybeard]

Virginia is not the new Duke. Virginia is the new Wake Forest. Wake Forest has ceased to be Wake Forest and has turned into Clemson. Clemson has improved and is more like NC State these days, and State is a riddle wrapped in a mystery wrapped in a red shroud.

None of these are the new Duke.

[indy1duke]

Actually you’ve overstated K’s post season success, we made 3 Final 4’s in his first 9 years (81-89). I can assure you that a lot more people than you listed judge coaches from strong conferences with No. 1 seeds on their tourney success. Bennett’s been a blessing for UVA, but until he at least reaches a Final Four, he and UVA fans will believe his success has been incomplete.

Further separation likely will occur over the next five years when we will compare Tony’s record with Coach K’s back to back national championships, two runners up, and one regional loss. Pretty tough to compete with that if your name is not John Wooden.

[weezie]

Virginia is not the new Duke. Virginia is the new Wake Forest. Wake Forest has ceased to be Wake Forest and has turned into Clemson. Clemson has improved and is more like NC State these days, and State is a riddle wrapped in a mystery wrapped in a red shroud.

None of these are the new Duke.

This is great. Standing O!

[ns7]

2016 3-1 Lost to Syracuse in Elite 8, blowing a big lead


2016 was a massive lost opportunity. I bet that team could have beaten UNC in the FF. They had already split their season series.

[kAzE]

UVA's rise has been meteoric over the past 5 years, but even with this high level of success, I'm not sure how many 5 star recruits will really be lining up to play at UVA. IMO, their style of play is an abomination to the art of basketball. But to be clear, there isn't anything wrong with this. Tony Bennett is a GREAT coach, and UVA is a great school, and I think their success is good for the ACC, but I personally hate watching them play.

Duke's rise in the late 80s and 90s led directly to more high level talent coming to Duke because (aside from having the greatest coach ever), playing Duke basketball just looks like a lot of fun. Most of our most memorable teams played at a high pace, with a free flowing offense designed to take advantage of high-end talent. And even more appealing to kids, Coach K doesn't adhere to any 1 system. He plays whichever style that allows his players to do what they do best.

UVA's system bogs the game down to a crawl, and generally just makes every game a struggle to watch. I can't imagine trying to play that style every game. It would be miserable.

For that reason, I can't see UVA ever becoming what Duke has become as long as they play this way.

[rogermortimer]

When Bennett first arrived, there was no question he was a great coach, and a very good pick if a school wants to win 20-22 games a year on a consistent basis.

I questioned whether great players would come play in that system. What I underestimated was Bennett's ability to coach. He gets tremendous results out of his athletes. But it still is a system, and at crunch time, intense athleticism and permitting to blossom matters.

Here's the problem, though, and the UMBC game demonstrated it. The UMBC kids played out of their minds, and made shots like crazy (they will surely return to their mean, even with as good of a player as Lyles happens to be). The color commentator during the UMBC game mentioned the problem, too. He said UVa needed to get out of the pattern offense and run Guy and Jerome (who frankly can shoot very well) up and down the court, with each beating their opposing man down with height and power. When UVa didn't do that, well, as improbable as it seemed, I though then that UMBC would win. It is as if Uva couldn't adapt to another style of play, even against an inferior opponent from a talent perspective.

I am so far frustrated at Duke's season, likely because the team is not what I am used to seeing. This is of course the result of being a spoiled fan. But Coach K is adaptable. One and done's and AAU superstars not staying long enough to learn great man to man help defense? Fine, go to a zone (style points don't count). Coach K does it. And he let's Duke's athletes run, why on a night like last night against Rhode Island they played like a NBA team. The adaptability just gives Duke a consistent chance at an upside. Perhaps it is unfair to compare anyone to the best basketball coach of all time - and maybe more than perhaps - but imitation in terms of adaptability is theoretically available to any program or coach.

Uva would be a fool not to retain Bennett. There are many more three and four star players than five stars, and Bennett will get them, and he will win games (and they will never be in Wake Forest's circumstance, whihc is depressing as can be). But query whether he can get his guys to adapt and play differently on nights where the system will stall like it did the other night. I am not sure he can because the mental aspect of his system is compelling. If you win any number of games just by grinding (where the opponent doesn't quit physically but does so mentally). that system is very comforting, a virtual security blanket. Stepping outside of it when necessary isn't so easy.

I like UVa. Schools like Uva are what make the ACC what it is - a good sports league with great academic traditions. But the basketball team and their coach raises interesting questions in terms of the limits of performance.

[84Duke]

But you’d think there is a smart top 10/top 5 recruit who would hear “You are the player who wins UVa’s first championship” and go all in. I mean, other than Ralph Sampson. It has to happen someday.